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If you like the old stuff there's still stuff out there.

 Million wrote:
I'm excited and sad simultaneously. Loved Necromunda, loved Escher (had the full original gang), and was really looking forward to the release, but to me without a boxed terrain set it's a disappointment.

It would be fine if SWA hadn't been limited edition, and the individual industrial terrain pieces were not now so unaffordably expensive.

There's some meaty terrain boxed sets due out for Christmas?

At the moment I'm assuming there's a discount involved, but how much who knows.

Was SWA even that great a discount? Maybe if you ebayed the scouts and orks, but if SWA was unlimited the price of those would be tiny!

The SWA box sold for £90, I think.
Just the terrain came to £75, when released separately a couple of weeks later.
It also had 2x Scouts, 1x Boyz, templates (handy at the time) and the rulebook.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
There's some meaty terrain boxed sets due out for Christmas?

Unless there are more we haven't seen, nothing quite like the SWA box. There's a 2xVoid Shield/1xReactor/1xPipes box and one with a Bastion and some Cargo Containers.

True. Did a google, and I swear that's not what I remember seeing!

Ah well, off to Warhammer World for the 40k Open Day in November. Completed with annual bonus and a month of overtime. Reckon I'll get me terrain there!

Unfortunately with what we seem to know about Necromunda, and then Blood Bowl, 40k of 7th edition onwards, and what AoS has become, Games Workshop has this crazy fetish with drip-feeding rules material to us so we keep buying, and we end up with way too much material spread all over to keep track of.

I was lucky enough to trade my way into a whack-ton of unassembled Mantic sci-fi terrain.. some ruins, some industrial, and the generic stuff.. Setting it aside until this releases SOUNDS like a good idea, but.. I also think that assembling it NOW, getting it painted and USED at the time of release sounds smarter..

So I went to https://spacemarineheroes.com/ today and when I go there it asks for authentication for necromunda.com
You can just press cancel and you get to the SM heroes site but the interesting part was the necromunda.com website, no idea if it has been mentioned in this thread already but regardless it seems we will get a website for that game as well.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
There's some meaty terrain boxed sets due out for Christmas?

Unless there are more we haven't seen, nothing quite like the SWA box. There's a 2xVoid Shield/1xReactor/1xPipes box and one with a Bastion and some Cargo Containers.

Had SWA been announced yet when those images leaked? It's been a while, so I don't remember. If not, I would bet GW would be keeping the SWA terrain under lock and key before that game was announced. I guess my point is that we could be getting some of the Mechanicus terrain in bundles next month, too. I hope so, anyway.

 MadCowCrazy wrote:
So I went to https://spacemarineheroes.com/ today and when I go there it asks for authentication for necromunda.com
You can just press cancel and you get to the SM heroes site but the interesting part was the necromunda.com website, no idea if it has been mentioned in this thread already but regardless it seems we will get a website for that game as well.

Just noticed that as well, but when I was following a link to the Shadespire site. Wonder what it means... (not really, it just means there'll be a Necromunda website)

 insaniak wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

It answers the question though? They’re bigger than the metals, but in line with modern models. Whether that’s an issue is an individual thing, but it makes sense considering they were made now and not 15 years ago. Makes more sense to make them compatible with today’s kits.

You've misunderstood. I wasn't disputing the answer. I was questioning the suggestion that making them bigger isn't upscaling them.



I'm also a little puzzled as to what the age of the models has to do with anything, to be honest. We still have models in use in 40K today that are more than 20 years old, and yes, I expect new releases to be in scale with those models. Which is exactly why the vehicles are the only part of the Primaris range that I'm ever likely to buy.

There's no actual requirement that new models be bigger than the models that they replace. It's just something that GW have been doing for reasons known only to themselves. I would much rather they reverse that decision and produce ranges in a consistent scale than to continue making everything bigger. YMMV, obviously.

The age has everything to do with it as Games Workshop have moved on so completely from the way miniatures were designed, sculpted and scaled when the original Escher miniatures were produced.

Over time, GW began designing figures to be a little larger than the 28mm that was king back in the 1990s. They are now around 32mm.

The old models currently used in 40k that are now pushing 20+ years DO look very small in comparison to the current lines of miniatures. Were you to see a new sculpt of, for instance, Mephiston, I guarantee he would be sculpted to be significantly larger than the current metal model.

Sculpting the new Necromunda miniatures to be roughly in-scale with the current miniature ranges IS keeping to a consistent scale.

YES. They will look taller/larger than the old Necromunda models (of which I have a considerable number).

I really don't understand why this is an issue. Why on earth would they make the NEW Necromunda figures SMALLER than the current range of figures they currently produce?

Indeed- particularly since they are being made plastic, and setting them at the same scale as modern minis is gonna make a ton of money for conversion sales.

Those figures didn't just look a little bigger than the old ones, the way Cadians are scaled slightly larger than Catachans (if thinner)., they looked HUGE. Like, Primaris Gangers. Obviously goliaths are big, but the Eschers looked almost as big as they did.


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I'm estimating that off the bases of course, could just be my eyeball is off.

 ekwatts wrote:

I really don't understand why this is an issue. Why on earth would they make the NEW Necromunda figures SMALLER than the current range of figures they currently produce?

So that they would be in scale with people's existing collections?

You know, the very thing that has been discussed from the start...

 insaniak wrote:

 ekwatts wrote:

I really don't understand why this is an issue. Why on earth would they make the NEW Necromunda figures SMALLER than the current range of figures they currently produce?

So that they would be in scale with people's existing collections?

You know, the very thing that has been discussed from the start...

The game`s been in a coma or dead for many years (10-15?), many new gamers and hobbiests appeared, now it`s remade, with new rules, new models... Did they need to do all the goofy monkey hands as well on the new minis? Miniatures are a bit bigger now, so they don`t require the old school hero scale with heads being the size of the bodies, so we can seе wtf they are from standing up POV. New miniatures have more details, are often multi-part and more dynamic. While some old sculpts are definatly works of art, I wouldn`t say so about most classic GW stuff. I`m sorry, throw all the tomatoes you can. I personaly don`t care for other`s people 20 year old collections, I don`t want the hobby to stagnate.

People`s existing collections would look crap with new era miniatures used in the same gang, as the old ones. Like playing cs 1.6 and CS:GO on the same map.
Minis improve, and getting somewhat larger, thus more relevant to current ranges and with bigger possibilities of customization (in a game about progress) is more important.
Infinity, Warmahordes, Warhammers, Malifaux - ranges of these games get improved, and more often than not, miniatures getting larger is a part of it.

 insaniak wrote:

 ekwatts wrote:

I really don't understand why this is an issue. Why on earth would they make the NEW Necromunda figures SMALLER than the current range of figures they currently produce?

So that they would be in scale with people's existing collections?

You know, the very thing that has been discussed from the start...

Making them the same scale as the current 40k stuff means that people might buy them even if they don’t play Necromunda, for 40k conversions. It makes a lot more sense for them to make them fit with today’s models. If people already have a Necromunda collection, they’ll most likely either just use their existing models, or buy the new ones anyway.

I imagine the market of people they’re trying to buy into the game is far larger than the market of people who used to play and have collections of the old models. And the amount of people who won’t buy anything or won’t touch the game because the new models are bigger than their models from 15 years ago is probably pretty small. This definitely seems like the right decision.

Disclaimer, guys: I'm just annoyed that the original Necromunda metal figures were a slightly larger scale than the 25-28mm Confrontation miniatures. Here I was, a huge collection of metal brat miniatures and BAM. GW hits us with a new range that stand a full 1-3mm taller! No attempt to appease the neglected Confrontation fan base at all.... Dreadful behaviour. SURE, that increase in scale led to more detailed and nicer looking miniatures, but who cares about that when your old, dated models look like they're from an entirely different era of miniatures?!

I think whether they're in scale with the old models is a bit of a non-issue. There's no need for them to be, in the same way that new 40k models aren't in scale with old 2nd edition metal miniatures or first edition beakies. The old sculpts have a lot of character but are, by modern standards, pretty rough.

I'm more interested in which of the recent plastics they're going to be in scale with. Tempestus Scions and DV Chaos Cultists are both much bigger than Cadians, Genestealer Cultists and Skitarii for instance. Which humanoids the new Necromunda plastics are scaled to will really effect what conversions are going to be viable.

I concur. Which of the new range of miniatures the scale is most similar to is interesting. What ever the scale difference is from 20 years ago is garbage. We've had it with Blood Bowl (that discussion has eventually died off). By the looks of Necromunda, this topic can resurface again and again if we see more specialist games like Mordheim, Battlefleet Gothic and Gorkamorka.

So heads up to the moaners: also your mordheim warbands, your star fleets and other models will be outdated and wrong scale for any and all new releases GW will ever make.

"Moaners".

Classy.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Moaners".

Classy.

Also almost accurate.

"Insufferable Moaners" should do the job.

Oh... my... god.

We had the scale discussion since page 2. Is there really anything left to say?

Repeating this after over 40 pages is really only moaning.

SKR.HH wrote:
Oh... my... god.

We had the scale discussion since page 2. Is there really anything left to say?
.

Given that people are still claiming to not understand why some of us think it's a problem, yes, apparently.


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 ImAGeek wrote:
If people already have a Necromunda collection, they’ll most likely either just use their existing models, or buy the new ones anyway.

You may well be right. Time will tell. For me, I was quite excited about having new models to add to the collection... But that enthusiasm took a big hit because of the scale issue.

I totally get that it's not an issue for some... But that's kind of the thing... Making the new models in scale with the old would have kept those of who like things in scale happy, and wouldn't have bothered everyone else. Increasing the size to be more in line with the rather variable scale in play with more recent lines, by contrast, only satisfies the latter group.

Dismissing it as 'moaning' doesn't make it any less irritating. And, really, the topic would have died out on its own if people didn't keep dredging it up again to act all incredulous that modellers might want new models in scale with their existing collections.

 insaniak wrote:

SKR.HH wrote:
Oh... my... god.

We had the scale discussion since page 2. Is there really anything left to say?
.

Given that people are still claiming to not understand why some of us think it's a problem, yes, apparently.


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 ImAGeek wrote:
If people already have a Necromunda collection, they’ll most likely either just use their existing models, or buy the new ones anyway.

You may well be right. Time will tell. For me, I was quite excited about having new models to add to the collection... But that enthusiasm took a big hit because of the scale issue.

I totally get that it's not an issue for some ... But that's kind of the thing... Making the new models in scale with the old would have kept those of who like things in scale happy, and wouldn't have bothered everyone else. Increasing the size to be more in line with the rather variable scale in play with more recent lines, by contrast, only satisfies the latter group.

Dismissing it as 'moaning' doesn't make it any less irritating. And, really, the topic would have died out on its own if people didn't keep dredging it up again to act all incredulous that modellers might want new models in scale with their existing collections.

Obviously it's not some but the majority. Those who have no Necromunda miniatures anymore or at all and even quite a few people who do have figures doesn't seem to have porblems with this.

Even when the new minis are taller than the old ones, they can still be used together.

I use lots of 2nd ed metal Space Wolves Grey Hunters, Blood Claws and Longfangs together with new plastic kits (full units as well as incorporated into mainly metal squads) and it does not look like garbage.

Only thing that I feel missing from this scale creep discussion, or at least not streessed enough, is that "moaners" neglect one HUGE reason for scale creep: plastic process has lower possible definition than pewter or resin. It is closer to what you could get in lead than in pewter (just with thinner rod-like features due to stiffness of plastic).

You can clearly see this when you compare 4th ed pewter Shadowseer to it's modern counterpart side by side - it is basically the same model (up to baton head detail and costume elements), just in more dynamic pose. And even though modern model is 2-3mm taller (from toe to the tip of the hood), details are bit more rounded and look a bit "melted" and/or shallow when compared to razor sharp pewter model (which still has some additional tiny details here and there).

The point is - modern plastic miniatures in scale with pewter era Necromunda range would have to be closer to Confrontation era level of detail (just not as fugly desing-wise due to CAD process) and that just wouldn't fly at all...

 insaniak wrote:
Making the new models in scale with the old would have kept those of who like things in scale happy, and wouldn't have bothered everyone else.

It would most certainly bother me, as I plan to use those plastics for a variety of projects, from AoS to Blood Bowl. So yeah.

Meanwhile, how about we all try to show enough Taoist to people with opinions that differ from our own to not refer to them as 'moaners', hmm?

Rule 1, folks.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
It would most certainly bother me, as I plan to use those plastics for a variety of projects, from AoS to Blood Bowl. So yeah.

Not to sound callous, but that doesn't matter. If the miniatures are unsuited to something outside of their intended purpose, then that's more on you than on the miniatures. To put it simply, you cannot criticise an orange for not being an apple.

So if the Newcromunda miniatures were scaled to Oldcromunda miniatures then the fact that they don't/won't work with a completely unrelated game isn't really an issue.