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I think it is a board game that also comes with a miniatures game ruleset.

 Manchu wrote:
I think it is a board game that also comes with a miniatures game ruleset.

Really? I thought it only came with the miniature game rules and some 2D cardboard versions of Zone Mortalis Terrain for a quick start (though still using range rulers, etc..).

Similar to using 2D terrain on a table ..

Like those woods there ...



The way I understood it, you might even be able to put regular terrain onto the 2D terrain in the box if you don't mind the abstraction of mixing both 2D and 3D terrain.

Boxed set is tunnel fights. But Gang War supplement, like Blood Bowl Seasons.

On one hand, it means us old grognards will have to shell out extra.

On the other, it is a complete game in a box for the uninitiated, helping to keep their costs down. Me, I reckon that's a price worth paying for new blood and future opponents. YMMV of course, because this is just an opinion.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Boxed set is tunnel fights. But Gang War supplement, like Blood Bowl Seasons.

On one hand, it means us old grognards will have to shell out extra.

On the other, it is a complete game in a box for the uninitiated, helping to keep their costs down. Me, I reckon that's a price worth paying for new blood and future opponents. YMMV of course, because this is just an opinion.

Well, if you don’t want the tunnel game you can just get the book and a couple of gangs (or use existing ones if you have them) so existing players don’t necessarily have to pay more.

 insaniak wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

Insaniak said the different scale wouldn't bother anyone. It would bother me, so his assumptions are most likely incorrect. That's about it.

Sure, my statement failed to take into account people wanting the miniatures for something other than Necromunda. Because, frankly, I doubt that use outside the intended game system is a particularly big factor in their design.

Actually...

Given that I fully intend to use the minis - if I get them - with other games that have not gone to GW's current RIDICULOUSLY LARGE(TM) scale...

I have to side with the folks that would prefer to have them in the older, smaller scale - but my (and others of my ilk) wanting to use them with *GASP!* other, non-GW games may well be part of why they have gone to their new scale.

That said - I really like the idea of having weapons that can be swapped out, and will be looking at the game anyway.

And, if the rules are good, and the minis suck... well, there are other companies that make miniatures that I like in a scale that I like. (Given that I intend to make a Neo-Victorian Van Saar gang anyway.... )

Still on the fence in regards to 'will the minis suck?' - I do not like what GW thinks is hair or fur these days. But, hey! If I go to Dulaque, I won't have to worry about the hair!

The Auld Grump

I don't remember anyone complaining about the upscaled miniatures when Space Hulk came out.

What was the one with Scouts and genestealers ? Don't recall anyone complaining about the upscaled miniatures with that one either.

Personally, I'll have zero issues mixing my vintage and shiny new Eschers and Goliaths, other than trying to get the paint jobs to match.

 adamsouza wrote:
I don't remember anyone complaining about the upscaled miniatures when Space Hulk came out.

What was the one with Scouts and genestealers ? Don't recall anyone complaining about the upscaled miniatures with that one either.

Personally, I'll have zero issues mixing my vintage and shiny new Eschers and Goliaths, other than trying to get the paint jobs to match.

there was no new minis in lost patrol. Was the same scouts and GS as before

 streetsamurai wrote:

there was no new minis in lost patrol. Was the same scouts and GS as before

But they are different scouts to the scouts that were in the original box set! So all those millions of people who bought the new box and already had the old box will go totally bonkers because they are all different in scale!!!!

AAARRGGGHHH!!!!!

 adamsouza wrote:
I don't remember anyone complaining about the upscaled miniatures when Space Hulk came out.

What was the one with Scouts and genestealers ? Don't recall anyone complaining about the upscaled miniatures with that one either.

Personally, I'll have zero issues mixing my vintage and shiny new Eschers and Goliaths, other than trying to get the paint jobs to match.

It is why I didn't buy the new Space Hulk.

I didn't complain, but I also didn't buy the game. I just quietly left.

And, about a year later, I sold off my 40K Dark Angels entirely - the new larger scale terminators being part of the reason. (This, I was not entirely quiet about - I had been unhappy with 40K for several editions, and... we had a baby on the way.)

One of the dangers - you lose more customers than you think you do, if you only go by the ones that complain. There are others that just shrug, and go buy something else.

For that matter, listening to the folks that do complain can lead to changes that are bad for the health of the game. (Thinking more of D&D 4e than 40K here.)

In this case... I doubt it is going to affect sales much, either way. As mentioned, there are just not enough of us old Necromunda players to matter that much, and a fair number of us old Necromunda players probably don't care one way or another on the scale.

And, for many of us who do care, there are alternatives.

And, even with the new scale for the minis - I am really freakin' happy that Necromunda is coming back! I just hope to Gogamagog that GW doesn't screw it up.

The Auld Grump

 H.B.M.C. wrote:


*snip*

And yeah, I've started making terrain in preparation.

So, how much is a ticket to H.B.M.C land and can you protect me from heretic drop bears if I turn up on your door step for a game. Nice structure.

Baxx wrote:

So heads up to the moaners: also your mordheim warbands, your star fleets and other models will be outdated and wrong scale for any and all new releases GW will ever make.

Which means that I will just continue to use the old models; although the issue of scale isn't really much of an issue, the overall aesthetic is and I don't care for the new Escher gangers at all. The only thing in the entire Necromunda release that I am remotely interested in is the rules.

streetsamurai wrote:there was no new minis in lost patrol. Was the same scouts and GS as before

You don't see a difference there at all ?

TheAuldGrump wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:
I don't remember anyone complaining about the upscaled miniatures when Space Hulk came out.

I didn't complain, but I also didn't buy the game. I just quietly left.

While it is indeed your perogative to vote with your money, you are literally the first person I've ever heard complain about not liking the immensley better sculpted minis in Space Hulk. Also the change is scale is irrelevant in Space Hulk. There is no need to ever combine collections from one edition of the board game to another as the contents of the box are all inclusive.

TheAuldGrump wrote:For that matter, listening to the folks that do complain can lead to changes that are bad for the health of the game. (Thinking more of D&D 4e than 40K here.)

4E design changes were mostly due to Hasbro wanting to sell you an entire new set of D&D books were that not compatible with the previous edition, while also appealing to the WOW crowd. I'm not saying there not people complaining about balance in 3E, but it really was not a major factor in 4Es creation. Hasbro makes board games, they come from a mentality of selling you new shinier versions of the same game every 5-10 years.

TheAuldGrump wrote:In this case... I doubt it is going to affect sales much, either way. As mentioned, there are just not enough of us old Necromunda players to matter that much, and a fair number of us old Necromunda players probably don't care one way or another on the scale.

You've hit the nail on the head here: The number of new players, and old players who'll glady upgrade, vastly outnumber any old players who'd only play if they only had to make a minimal investment in rules, and not buy the new miniatures.

TheAuldGrump wrote:And, for many of us who do care, there are alternatives.

Yup. The old rules still exist in living rulebook format. There are a dozen versions of Inquisimunda floating around on the internet.

Honestly, it really comes down to people being irritated by OCD concerns about aestheic concerns, people being irritated by people voicing OCD concerns about aestheic concerns, and then people who voiced their OCD concerns getting defensive when other people don't share, or want to listen to their OCD concerns.

The new and old models are just as compatible as any 40K models that changed over the years. There is literally almost no incentive to make the new models match the 20+ year old models. There are many more incentives for GW to do the opposite.

GW makes no money from 3rd party vendors selling vintage models.
GW makes no money from you using your vintage models instead of buying new ones.

Just look at the included Special/Heavy weapons spoiled. The ubiquitous heavy stubbers are gone and replaced with Escher chem throwers and Goliath rivet guns.
Is it a cool game change ? Probably.
Is it a move to sell you new models ? Definitely.

Do I hope heavy Stubbers are still in the game ? Yes. I have 11 Goliaths with Heavy Stubbers sitting around waiting to do something

I see the board and wonder if the new rules will include zone mortalis stuff?

 adamsouza wrote:

streetsamurai wrote:there was no new minis in lost patrol. Was the same scouts and GS as before

You don't see a difference there at all ?

What he mean is that GW just took the already existing scout and GS kit and give it to you, they just use a different "colored" plastic. Those are not "new". For example the one from Space Hulk are new because It didn't exist in any currently available kit.

God - I am so stoked for this! I've made more terrain than I have done in probably 10 years. I just hope the release speed is fast enough to maintain interest from my group - Blood Bowl petered out pretty quickly.

So as it turns out there are some pretty amazing looking Shadow War setups out there.

 Nuclear Mekanik wrote:
I don't think it should come as a surprise (unpleasant or otherwise) that GW doesn't really give a toss about backwards compatibility with model ranges beyond the last 5 years or so. As someone with a model collection that dates back to 2nd ed, I am pleased about this, as generally speaking* the model ranges are on an upward curve of quality and attractiveness to my tastes (if not wallet!). *Yes SM centurions, I'm looking at you!

This deserves to be the final word on the issue.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So as it turns out there are some pretty amazing looking Shadow War setups out there.

Trying to resist spending £500 on terrain as it is.

Thanks, I think?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So as it turns out there are some pretty amazing looking Shadow War setups out there.

They look great but to me also very open for a Necromunda / SW:A game?

That's where scatter terrain comes into it.

Barricade here, pile of scrap there, luvverly.

And you should leave some riskier areas largely devoid of cover. Stops the game becoming a static shoot out.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So as it turns out there are some pretty amazing looking Shadow War setups out there.

They look great but to me also very open for a Necromunda / SW:A game?

Those are indeed very sparse... IMHO if you can't traverse large distances in permanent hiding, then there is too little terrain for proper Necromunda experience. Shooting at long distances should be limited to narrow lanes, not cover 2/3rds of entire table... And yes, I know that this means awfully lot of terrrain and difficult acces to models sometimes, but this game gets better and better with each additional terrain piece put on the table, up to seemingly ridiculous amounts.

 Mr Morden wrote:
They look great but to me also very open for a Necromunda / SW:A game?

The issue with some of those setups isn't them being open, it's more that it's all one level.

It's a problem I always called "Levelling" with the original Necromunda terrain. You could make great looking tables using multiple sets of Necro terrain, but if the majority of the buildings/catwalks were at the same level, then you might as well be playing on the ground level.

So this looks cool, sure, but it's all one level. It needs to be multi-level to work. This is the inherent downside with the Shadow War terrain, as cool as it is, because it's 5" high, meaning 2 levels is 10" and 3 is 15" and that's just getting silly. Oldcromunda terrain was 3" per level, so getting a 5 story building was easy. Here, it's not only really expensive (in Oz a single SW building costs as much as the Imperial Sector box), but it becomes very tall very quickly, which isn't practical.

Does anyone know if there's a 3rd party doing ramps and stuff for the Industrial terrain?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Failing that...can anyone recommend similar terrain, but in 3" high increments (as per the original stuff)?

Not especially interested in MDF stuff or cardboard, but beggars can't be choosers.

Given what H.B.M.C. said about levels, I'd like some lower platform to 'thread' between the GW industrial stuff, get a proper tangle going on. I want to encourage I test based jumping between levels!

For Necromunda-esque stuff...there are a half dozen or more quality MDF companies, but...as you said, it's MDF. You can also find some 3D printed stuff on eBay.

If MDF is the norm, then MDF it'll be. Much as I prefer hard plastic ala GW, let's not get fussy when there's limited selection.

Always a bit sceptical of 'buying blind' - a friend had that hex builder thing. Nice as it was, it was too small for GW scale back then.

mantic terrain might do the job? http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/mantic-scenery-and-terrain.html

It's nice, but not really enough walkways. Could be useful to add actual intact buildings though - sort a small township amidst the sprawl?

As it's seeming MDF may be largely unavoidable (and as a material, still preferable to cardboard in my book. More resilient, innit) anyone care to comment on TT Combat's stuff? Darksphere stocks it, which means it's accessible.

Is it the 'idea' 3" high increments, allowing me to thread their walkways through the GW industrial....

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It's nice, but not really enough walkways. Could be useful to add actual intact buildings though - sort a small township amidst the sprawl?

As it's seeming MDF may be largely unavoidable (and as a material, still preferable to cardboard in my book. More resilient, innit) anyone care to comment on TT Combat's stuff? Darksphere stocks it, which means it's accessible.

Is it the 'idea' 3" high increments, allowing me to thread their walkways through the GW industrial....

Mantic has as many walkways as youd want to make. A lot of their kits have the side panels and panels of half the size of the big squares you use to link together.

As much as I hate 90% of what mantic has, that terrain is good for necromunda. MDF stuff is nice, but actually building it and painting it is pretty horrid. Plastic > MDF always

TT Combat Industrial Hive or Gothic Scenics are your bog standard, cheap as chips mdf scenery supplier. They benefit from a good lick of paint because they're a little basic, but hard to argue with the price/coverage. Plus, being so basic makes them easy to fit into existing boards/terrain/themes.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It's nice, but not really enough walkways. Could be useful to add actual intact buildings though - sort a small township amidst the sprawl?

As it's seeming MDF may be largely unavoidable (and as a material, still preferable to cardboard in my book. More resilient, innit) anyone care to comment on TT Combat's stuff? Darksphere stocks it, which means it's accessible.

Is it the 'idea' 3" high increments, allowing me to thread their walkways through the GW industrial....

TT Combat is pretty good for what you pay - so you can get an awful lot of it and fill your board. I have got a number of boxes of MDF stuff and gave some to the club as well....