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 Crimson wrote:
That the models are of different scale than ancient metal figures is unfortunate, but understandable; that they're of different scale than vast majority of GW's current plastic humans, some of which are quite recent, is way more serious matter.


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 Mymearan wrote:

Can you provide a comparison picture with those minis where the new Escher ginormous platform heels are accounted for, I assume you have one since you're making the comparison?

No, I just made some measurements and calculations.

What are these measurements and calculations then? Because in the only fair comparison I've seen (old Escher vs new Escher, with new Escher measured from her feet instead of the bottom of her platform shoes) the new one doesn't look that big. Would love to be proven wrong, but there's much complaining and no real evidence that I've seen.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
How about the old minis are juves, the new minis are full adults

Sorry, but Juves can carry Heavy Plasma Guns?

 Mymearan wrote:

What are these measurements and calculations then? Because in the only fair comparison I've seen (old Escher vs new Escher, with new Escher measured from her feet instead of the bottom of her platform shoes) the new one doesn't look that big. Would love to be proven wrong, but there's much complaining and no real evidence that I've seen.

Did you see that pic of SoS model next to GSC model? That's how big they are.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
How about the old minis are juves, the new minis are full adults

then all of them can get along

Again, this doesn't work due to juves being limited in the equipment they can take. Unless that changes in the new rules, which I think would be unlikely.

 Krinsath wrote:
Yeah, the people who don't care for a differing scale are not guilty of a crime against humanity; it does seem there's a bit of "how DARE you have wrongfun and not like what others like" going on with that debate.

I think we're reading different threads. Nobody has told people who don't care about scale that they're doing anything wrong. Entirely the opposite - people who do care about the scale of their miniatures are being told that their concerns are irrelevant.

There's room to accept that some people care about scale and others don't. So long as people can also accept that some people will talk about things that matter to them, that may not matter to other people.


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 Galas wrote:
Sisters of Silence have always appeared to be VERY big women. Just look at them compared with Custodes that are much bigger than SM.

GW's artwork is quite possibly the worst possible place to try to get any meaningful idea of scale.

Although I'm fairly sure your second pic is fanart.

 Fenris-77 wrote:
So we're getting new Necromunda, with all new figs, and the takeaway is nattering about scale? I don't get some people. Figs look great, I'm very excited, I'm gonna buy a lot. That is all.

This.

Some of the complaints I've seen on facebook are the most banal nonsense... but par for the course with GWs usual hate club. Boring rubbish.

"HUH THAT GW CANCELLING OUR FAVE GAMES LIKE NECROMUNDA AND BLOOD BOWL EH, IDIOTS"

*Necromunda comes back*

"OH MY GAWD THEY MADE THE NEW MINIATURES IN SCALE WITH THEIR MODERN RANGES RATHER THAN WITH 2+ DECADE OLD METALS, IDIOTS"

 ekwatts wrote:

"OH MY GAWD THEY MADE THE NEW MINIATURES IN SCALE WITH THEIR MODERN RANGES RATHER THAN WITH 2+ DECADE OLD METALS, IDIOTS"

Can people stop repeating this lie, please? The issue is that they're NOT in scale with their modern ranges.

FFS.

I'm fine with people not caring about the scale. You don't have to. But please at least to try understand what the discussion is about.


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 insaniak wrote:

Although I'm fairly sure your second pic is fanart.

It's actually not. It's from the Regimental Standard.

Yeah, it was from the Regimental Standard some months ago.

Personally I'll wait until I have the models in hand. Not even comparing pictures are a good measure. All those pictures of the Dark Imperium Deathguard being GIGANTIC compared with normal marines and DV Chosen and other models, after having all of them in hand, in 32'smm, they mixed all really well together.

 Crimson wrote:

 ekwatts wrote:

"OH MY GAWD THEY MADE THE NEW MINIATURES IN SCALE WITH THEIR MODERN RANGES RATHER THAN WITH 2+ DECADE OLD METALS, IDIOTS"

Can people stop repeating this lie, please? The issue is that they're NOT in scale with their modern ranges.

FFS.

I'm fine with people not caring about the scale. You don't have to. But please at least to try understand what the discussion is about.

Are the new Necrumunda miniatures in scale within its own game system? Yes
Is there scale creep in Necrumunda? No (Not yet anyways)

Is the scale inconsistent with some of their 40k stuff? some yes
Is 40k the same as Necrumunda? No
You wanted to use your 40k stuff in Necromunda? Well.. it sucks if you care about scale, butt there is nothing to be whining about since they are two different games.

 Galas wrote:

Personally I'll wait until I have the models in hand. Not even comparing pictures are a good measure.

This is certainly true. Also, we have only seen two models from two gangs, so there might be more variation.

Bubbalicious wrote:

You wanted to use your 40k stuff in Necromunda? Well.. it sucks if you care about scale, butt there is nothing to be whining about since they are two different games.

Dismissing opinions that differ from your own as 'whining' does nothing positive for the discussion.

Can we all at least make some minimal effort to accept that different people have different opinions, please?

Bubbalicious wrote:

Is 40k the same as Necrumunda? No
You wanted to use your 40k stuff in Necromunda? Well.. it sucks if you care about scale, butt there is nothing to be whining about since they are two different games.

If 40K and Necromunda are indeed in different scales, that's pretty big deal.

Then I guess it's a good thing they're both in the same scale.

 Genoside07 wrote:
.. they are going a little larger on models but can only hope they don't go crazy like the new marines.

Even though the new Escher have both long(er) legs and high heels, none of the new Necromundians we have seen this far is nowhere near the size of a Primaris Marine - and for me the most important thing is that the new Necro minis and parts will mix well with the old ones (for head/arm/weapon swaps) - which they definely seem to do...



Hopefully the haters will be ignored and we will get what has been previewed - instead of some sort of stupid looking (but anatomically correct) Malifaux/Raging Heroes-ish release with tiny heads/arms/hands that is just impossible to convert (and paint well). Personally I love the Heroic scale as it deliberately exaggerates those proportions that will make the minis look their best on the table (exactly as we do when painting) - instead of just shrinking normal proportions.
Know the rules - break the rules.
For more info on the subject - I highly recommend buying Aragon Marks sculpting classes.

 kendoka wrote:

Hopefully the haters will be ignored and we will get what has been previewed - instead of some sort of stupid looking (but anatomically correct) Malifaux/Raging Heroes-ish release with tiny heads/arms/hands that is just impossible to convert (and paint well). Personally I love the Heroic scale as it deliberately exaggerates those proportions that will make the minis look their best on the table (exactly as we do when painting) - instead of just shrinking normal proportions.
Know the rules - break the rules.

I definitely agree on the heroic scale thing, but had they made the new Escher about 10% smaller, I don't think it would have made the bits too small to convert.

Once you take off the massive platforms/heels they look to be fine

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
How about the old minis are juves, the new minis are full adults

Sorry, but Juves can carry Heavy Plasma Guns?

Maybe? We don't know yet.

 EnTyme wrote:
Then I guess it's a good thing they're both in the same scale.

Shush, don't ruin the moanfest with silly things like facts.

Vorian wrote:
Once you take off the massive platforms/heels they look to be fine

Yes, and I hope we will have atleast some Eschers in more Underhive-suitable shoes.
Mad Donna Ulanthi and gang leaders might choose stiletto heels - but an Escher heavy or runner would look better in flat heel working boots.

 Crimson wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
As previously mention, these are no taller than other human-sized minis released in the last couple years. See Genestealer Cults and Skitarii for reference. Can we please stop spreading misinformation?

Yes, can we please? The Escher are taller than those other models you mentioned.

That's simply untrue. The best estimate from the images once you account for the platforms is 30-31mm to the eye, which is right in line with DV Cultists, Scions, GSC, Skitarii etc once you account for pose.

 Crimson wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:


Though there aren't and GSC or Skitarii models in this comparison, it's fairly obvious based on the models present that they're in line with other modern minis.

This comparison is misleading, as it has elves (which are taller than humans), Bloodbowl humans and Chaos Marauders, both of which are taller than most of GW's human figures, and Greyfax, who is a giant. GSC and Skitarii you mentioned are definitely noticeably shorter than any of these.

And this comment shows exactly why people need to account for everything before making pronouncements, because guess how big Greyfax is once you account for her stilettos...?

~30mm to the eye.

Guess how big Scions are when you account for their pose...?

~30mm to the eye.

GSC? You get the idea.

 Crimson wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
You have to be careful with bases. SoS come with 32mm bases which are noticeably taller than the 25mm bases GSC are supplied with.

Here are a couple, both on 25mm. The Sister is taller than the cultist for sure. I just figure that the sisters are statuesque, 6 foot warrior women and the cultists are the offspring of runty, malnourished, underhive scum

So then why are the Skitarii and all the IG stunties too?

The machine cult decided that smaller troops were less of a target and had more survivability so they make sure the bionics are smaller. It also has the plus side of making the titans look taller .

The guard could only manufacture small clothes, so they only induct small guys. The big guys are in the imperial navy which we don't have models for.....yet.

 Yodhrin wrote:

And this comment shows exactly why people need to account for everything before making pronouncements, because guess how big Greyfax is once you account for her stilettos...?

~30mm to the eye.

Guess how big Scions are when you account for their pose...?

~30mm to the eye.

GSC? You get the idea.

Are you sure?

Never noticed but my god greyfax's invisible heels or she is trying to peak over a high wall or something.

Greyfax has a pass because as a "Hero" normally you want them to be bigger even if they should be of the same size than normal grunts. Thats RTS 101 right there.

You realise you're complaining about things not being the same height rather than being a different scale, yeah?

 Galas wrote:
Greyfax has a pass because as a "Hero" normally you want them to be bigger even if they should be of the same size than normal grunts.

Er... no you don't.

Unless there's an actual reason for them to be larger than the people around them, 'hero' models should be sculpted in the same scale as everyone else. Otherwise they just look out of place.

 insaniak wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Greyfax has a pass because as a "Hero" normally you want them to be bigger even if they should be of the same size than normal grunts.

Er... no you don't.

Unless there's an actual reason for them to be larger than the people around them, 'hero' models should be sculpted in the same scale as everyone else. Otherwise they just look out of place.

Well, I was talking slighly bigger, not as big that they look out of place. But maybe this is because I'm used to Greenskins and Orks where the bigger the better for yours HQ's
And I don't know if in the fluff Greyfax is a big woman. An example of this problem was the Human Priest of Silver Tower. He was big, VERY big compared with normal Fantasy humans, but in his Lore he was basically a giant (A very big fella, but a normal human), so it was correct.

insaniak wrote:

 Fenris-77 wrote:
So we're getting new Necromunda, with all new figs, and the takeaway is nattering about scale?

Yes?

It's a miniatures game. Having those miniatures be in a consistent scale is important to some people, and so when companies ignore or change scale, that's a big deal for those people.

I'm still excited to see what they do with the rules, but I'll likely be just using my old models.

JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Fenris-77 wrote:
So we're getting new Necromunda, with all new figs, and the takeaway is nattering about scale?

Some of us have quite a few existing Necro figures, and the new size due to scale creep makes things not match.

This is roughly the same boat I am in. Personally, I probably won't mix within faction. Doesn't matter to me though as I've got 15-20 figure gangs so I don't need new figures for those gangs.

However, the Necromunda fulff makes it quite clear that the various houses are quite different in physical stature. Thus, using a new gang against an old gang wouldn't bother me at all. I don't yet have a Goliath Gang so I'll definitely be buying the starter set and probably and additional Goliath pack. I'll only use the new figs and the fact that they're bigger than other gangs won't bother me.

Also, even GW wasnt' completely consistent with the original Necromunda updates. Here's an original Van Saar compared to one (on the left) of the second generation sculpts that came out a few years later.

The second generation were thicker and not nearly as well detailed. Not to mention they didn't have any of the original Van Saar's signature facial hair. Ignore the IG hand and Hasslefree rifle that I added.

JSG wrote:
You realise you're complaining about things not being the same height rather than being a different scale, yeah?

For a range of miniatures, it comes to more or less the same thing.

While in real life people come in a broad range of different sizes, in a miniatures range they tend to be all sculpted more or less the same size, partly because realistic-looking variations in height are actually really minor when you consider the scale involved, and partly so that parts are compatible across the range.


When you have multiple ranges of human models, you then run into issues if you make them different sizes unless there is a valid reason for it. When there is no explanation given for why, for example, Sisters of Silence tower head and shoulders over regular Guardsmen, the end result is a range of models that is just inexplicably larger than another. It doesn't look like height variation, because all of the models in the second range are taller. It just looks like the second range has been sculpted in a larger scale, and this is amplified in the case of models like the Sisters and the Primaris marines, where the height variation is also accompanied by different proportions to the previous models. Sisters don't look like taller humans than Guardsmen... they look like regular humans sculpted in a larger scale with less 'heroic' proportions. Same issue with Primaris marines and regular marines.


Again, whether or not those differences in scale and proportion are an issue is going to come down to individual preferences. Some will object to it, some won't care.

It's pretty amazing that so many people in this thread arguing about scale seem to totally gloss over the fact the "out of scale" models are all wearing 6 inch stilettos. Those make you taller. It's literally the point of them. Anyone who's had a wife or girlfriend wear heels should know it doesn't take much of a heel to increase height.

The actual scale of the figures looks fine. In fact if anything people should be complaining about the Goliaths scale. Curiously "grown in a vat" is a legitmate excuse for scale discrepancies, but high heels aren't?

This just reminds me of the "Celestine and her body guards are fat" posts. Some people seem really overly focused on physical attributes on female models.


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 insaniak wrote:


Again, whether or not those differences in scale and proportion are an issue is going to come down to individual preferences. Some will object to it, some won't care.

Cool, well since we've thoroughly established this is a matter of opinion, and the models are already made, so there's no changing it now. Can we accept that we've beaten this topic to death and get back to discussing literally anything else about this game and let the scale discussion continue elsewhere? It's literally your job here, so hopefully that's not too much to ask of you.

This whole debate is a mess now.

Is scale important? Damn right.

Are these out of scale? Probably not.

Is scale solely about height? No.

There we go.