Apparently C3P0 is going to have a combat mode activated in this one so...more action figures to sell?
If The Last Jedi has taught us anything it is to try and imagine a scenario where you close your eyes, hang your head, and let out a sigh of disbelief at the stupidity at what you just saw and that will be why Rey is in, essentially, Darth Maul regalia. If it sounds interesting or reasonable you are on the wrong track.
Because he has no idea if he's doing it (I expect certain people at Disney won't return his calls now), he really wants to do it, and and by talking publicly about it wants to box Lucasfilm into a corner.
Or, simply, he doesn't know any different.
As to why Disney wouldn't "slap down" RJ if his stuff wasn't full steam ahead - would they though? Most of their "slapping down" has been related to intemperate social media usage that's riled up one of the Culture War factions, I'm not sure they'd really care all that much if a director they planned to dump at some point was gushing over a project that wasn't actually going to happen. They might also be choosing to let the charade continue so as to not be seen as "bowing to toxic fans", instead allowing it to die quietly off-screen. Or heck, they might not even know any different - Kennedy definitely wants him involved, some of her preferred courses of action may be in limbo until Iger sees the results of current projects.
I'm not arguing his trilogy is dead, or that any of those possibilities are facts, but they do remain possible and that's enough that I can remain hopeful unless & until we get actual confirmation that production has begun.
I'm not arguing his trilogy is dead, or that any of those possibilities are facts, but they do remain possible and that's enough that I can remain hopeful unless & until we get actual confirmation that production has begun.
Many movies which are 'in development' never see light of day. It would hardly break Disney's bank if they keep Johnson in payroll writing new stuff and coming up with ideas. If they judge that his story outline has merit, great, lets start shooting, if not, they give him a boot and bin the script, it's a minimal loss.
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Manchu wrote: 75%+ of a trailer made up of shots from other movies.
The desperation on display here is breathtaking.
"Rise of Skywalker - tribute to better movies." But yeah it's not a real trailer, just a promo piece shown in an event and fine for what it is. Despite my hate of the prequels, I like that they're not pretending they did not happen. And this raises my hopes that in this movie we get rid of Skywalkers once and for all.
The mechanism for the double-bladed lightsaber is mind-bogglingly stupid - there's no practical benefit to ever having the blades the same way, and the motion of snapping it down whilst doing something like running is likely to take your own leg off.
Longer handle while still collapsing to a pretty small length. Probably splits in two because that's an obvious thing people would buy in toy form. There's better ways to do both, but makes a cool toy.
So, if they are ISD1s and 2s, there are three possibilities that spring to mind:
1) The bad guys are hard up and have to dig them out. They weren't exactly hard up at the end of Episode 8, though.
2) The good guys are in possession of the remains of the Imperial fleet and this is the cavalry here to save the day. Can't imagine that there were too many ISD1s left by the end of the Galactic Civil War.
That doesn't really look like a combat formation, more like some kind of storage, like Katana fleet?
And if that's a clone of Rey, uh, where have I seen that before?
No wait, Rey...Rei...oh it has been so obvious all the time!
Republic is in ruins, Resistance is destroyed, the First Order is about to take over, then the Imperial Remnant swoops in to the rescue, Palpy's ghost possesses C3PO and takes Rey as an apprentice and together they bring peace and justice to the galaxy?
Riquende wrote:The mechanism for the double-bladed lightsaber is mind-bogglingly stupid - there's no practical benefit to ever having the blades the same way, and the motion of snapping it down whilst doing something like running is likely to take your own leg off.
LunarSol wrote:Longer handle while still collapsing to a pretty small length. Probably splits in two because that's an obvious thing people would buy in toy form. There's better ways to do both, but makes a cool toy.
The design comes from clone wars, specifically an episode with this big four-armed jedi who wielded two of them and betrayed his troops. He sold it better by virtue of being able to hold the entire elongated hilt in one massive hand, seeing it scaled up on a human certainly does look awkward.
Perhaps it's an old relic taken that used to belong to someone more anatomically suited to it.
Captain Joystick wrote: The design comes from clone wars, specifically an episode with this big four-armed jedi who wielded two of them and betrayed his troops. He sold it better by virtue of being able to hold the entire elongated hilt in one massive hand, seeing it scaled up on a human certainly does look awkward.
I though Pon Krell just had 2 double bladed saber, not hinged ones. But the Jedi temple guard in Rebels certainly does have a hinged double saber
Then again, we know the MCU and Lucasfilm like their fibby trailers. Snippets of film subtlety altered or cunningly misrepresented.
Sometimes it’s stuff recut or reshot - Jyn Erso and the TIE Fighter. Other times it’s in the edit, possibly with new voiceover - Tony Stark, Cap and Thor from the trailer for the first Avenger movie.
Galef wrote: I though Pon Krell just had 2 double bladed saber, not hinged ones. But the Jedi temple guard in Rebels certainly does have a hinged double saber
Thats what I thought too but some people kept saying 'clone wars clone wars' so I looked it up. The temple guard in Clone Wars didn't have the hinges but Krell's definitely did.
C) A clone. The 'successful' result, of which Rey is one of countless rejects.
I've seen this idea floated elsewhere, linked to her vision in TLJ - the mirrored duplicates basically being the in-you-face hint. I like it as a nice way around the parenting issue... her parents can technically be someone important while at the same time being nobody.
So, if they are ISD1s and 2s, there are three possibilities that spring to mind:
1) The bad guys are hard up and have to dig them out. They weren't exactly hard up at the end of Episode 8, though.
2) The good guys are in possession of the remains of the Imperial fleet and this is the cavalry here to save the day. Can't imagine that there were too many ISD1s left by the end of the Galactic Civil War.
3) Time travel.
The rumour I had seen elsewhere (when they introduced the Sith Troopers) was that the fleet has been waiting there for a long, long time.
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Riquende wrote: The mechanism for the double-bladed lightsaber is mind-bogglingly stupid - there's no practical benefit to ever having the blades the same way, and the motion of snapping it down whilst doing something like running is likely to take your own leg off.
Making it easier to store on your belt would be the obvious benefit. While unfolding it before ignition would clearly be the more OH&S-friendly approach, darkside Force users in Star Wars have never really been known for their concern about personal safety... And as with anything Star Wars, 'Looks cool on screen' is always going to trump practicality.
I suspect both fleets May be something of a flashback.
Of course, given the X-Wings are clearly at least T-70, given how the engines behave when the s-foils are locked in attack position.
But at any rate, who do I need to beat up or offer executive relief to in order for current Gen consoles to get a proper X-Wing game successor?
Seriously. Stuff your ground missions. Let me fly an A-Wing at breakneck speed whilst shooting at anything that looks like it move. Hell, I’d even buy a proper flight stick peripheral in order to scratch this itch.
C) A clone. The 'successful' result, of which Rey is one of countless rejects.
I've seen this idea floated elsewhere, linked to her vision in TLJ - the mirrored duplicates basically being the in-you-face hint. I like it as a nice way around the parenting issue... her parents can technically be someone important while at the same time being nobody.
Or perhaps Rey IS a successful one who was spirited away and hidden?
I doubt that she'll be revealed to be a mystery box of that level -- it's probably something more straightforward -- but it's interesting for a fan theory.
There's a really cool theory that Rey is either a clone of Padme, begun by either a distraught Anakin or Palpatine as a way to control Anakin that failed to show force potential, and was abandoned. Alternatively, she's a crazy wackadoo force experiment that used Anakin's midichlorians and Padme DNA to pop out a force baby.
It explains luke's lightsabre reacting to her, and the vision in the cave that her parents were nobody- assuming the Force is a literal jerk like a genie- and there is very strong evidence to support that about Force visions in general.
If they do that, then I think it's totally within the realm of possibility that they also harvest more of Heir to the Empire, and the Star Destroyers are the equivalent of the Katana Fleet- a group of drone Star Destroyers mothballed since the fall of the Empire, that the depleted Resistance and First Order must now race to secure control of.
Honestly if it's right, it fixes a tremendous number of problems with TLJ.
Personally I'm not too big a fan of those theories. They'd recycle far too much Zahn elements (though for non-hardcore fans not familiar with them they would come up as innovative and novel).
Also I like the idea of Rey as a nobody. I hate the 'they are all connected' storylines and plot hooks Star Wars degenerated into.
I hope it's just Thrawn and the Imperial Remnant come to rescue the Resistance, in a unique plot flip.
But yes, I reckon it's just a copy of the Katana fleet, hidden away in a nebula and the Resistance is racing to get them first. Which would be a bummer of wasted potential.
I just assumed that the Imp fleet was a flash back to before Jakku, there are some interesting plot hooks in that trailer but TFA had the same and they proved to be the entire content of the film.
Those aren't your average imperial star destroyers, looks like they have a chunky big ventral cannon on them. Perhaps the superweapon we see in the trailer?
I do hope we get to see a massive space battle in this movie similar to Ep III or Rogue 1, B-Wings are cool but I want some capital ship broadsides!
AegisGrimm wrote: I hope it's just Thrawn and the Imperial Remnant come to rescue the Resistance, in a unique plot flip.
But yes, I reckon it's just a copy of the Katana fleet, hidden away in a nebula and the Resistance is racing to get them first. Which would be a bummer of wasted potential.
What is the Katana fleet?
I doubt JJ Abrams is doing anything from the old EU or anything. He's not that deep. ..
Katana Fleet was a plot point in first Zahn trilogy: basically Imperial Remnant was short of ships, so they tracked down report about a Republic era fleet of semi-automated Dreadnaughts which had malfunctioned and disappeared into hyperspace and stayed in some remote place for decades/centuries, with their small stranded skeleton crews dying off. Other than that, ships were fully functional, obsolescent but workable.
Gitzbitah wrote: ..... it fixes a tremendous number of problems with TLJ.
This is partly why I haven't committed to a particular opinion about TLJ just yet. There are so many ways Rise of Skywalker could change our perception or outright retcon stuff that happened in TLJ that rewatching it after RoS could make it worth the ride. Fingers crossed.
But just like prior to the release of TLJ and TFA before it, my hopes are up for Hayden & Ewan Force Ghosts making a cameo. If this last movie is meant to be the culmination of all 9 saga films, the Force Ghost "council" has to be there.
I’m wondering if it’s the equivalent of a dry dock.
I mean, scrapping all those ships strikes me as expensive. And the New Republic likely had limited funds to begin with, so mothballing them in a nebula makes a certain amount of sense, at least in the mid to short term.
Could also be Leia’s doing. Noble as Mon Mothma’s deliberate demilitarisation was, stashing a hundred or so Capital Ships no-one will miss all that much isn’t a bad ‘ace in the hole’?
Gitzbitah wrote: ..... it fixes a tremendous number of problems with TLJ.
This is partly why I haven't committed to a particular opinion about TLJ just yet. There are so many ways Rise of Skywalker could change our perception or outright retcon stuff that happened in TLJ that rewatching it after RoS could make it worth the ride. Fingers crossed.
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Similarly, I don't think Empire would be as fondly remembered if not for Jedi's rather saccharine ending complimenting it well. Not that it likely matters for either TLJ or RoS in the internet era of entrenched opinions.
Gitzbitah wrote: ..... it fixes a tremendous number of problems with TLJ.
This is partly why I haven't committed to a particular opinion about TLJ just yet. There are so many ways Rise of Skywalker could change our perception or outright retcon stuff that happened in TLJ that rewatching it after RoS could make it worth the ride. Fingers crossed.
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Similarly, I don't think Empire would be as fondly remembered if not for Jedi's rather saccharine ending complimenting it well. Not that it likely matters for either TLJ or RoS in the internet era of entrenched opinions.
Do you mean Empire Strikes Back? The film has been critically acclaimed as the best of the Star Wars films, bar maybe the groundbreaking original.
To make an argument for TLJ to be improved once it has a wider context, you'd have to find a compelling reason for the whole Casino sequence, the world's slowest starship race and the whole anti-heroic sacrifice debacle.
These are flaws that seem, to me at least, wholly contained within the movie with no particular impact to the wider arc (much of which that does is what I actually found to like in the movie, even Porgs!)
I don't see how any of that can be reframed effectively.
Azreal13 wrote: To make an argument for TLJ to be improved once it has a wider context, you'd have to find a compelling reason for the whole Casino sequence, the world's slowest starship race and the whole anti-heroic sacrifice debacle.
These are flaws that seem, to me at least, wholly contained within the movie with no particular impact to the wider arc (much of which that does is what I actually found to like in the movie, even Porgs!)
I don't see how any of that can be reframed effectively.
Granted. I was more referring to Luke dying for no reason and Rey being a nobody. Those are the 2 biggest issues I personally did not like about TLJ. Rise of Skywalker can change Rey's origin and at least bring Luke's character back, albeit in ghost form.
Gitzbitah wrote: ..... it fixes a tremendous number of problems with TLJ.
This is partly why I haven't committed to a particular opinion about TLJ just yet. There are so many ways Rise of Skywalker could change our perception or outright retcon stuff that happened in TLJ that rewatching it after RoS could make it worth the ride. Fingers crossed.
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Similarly, I don't think Empire would be as fondly remembered if not for Jedi's rather saccharine ending complimenting it well. Not that it likely matters for either TLJ or RoS in the internet era of entrenched opinions.
Do you mean Empire Strikes Back? The film has been critically acclaimed as the best of the Star Wars films, bar maybe the groundbreaking original.
Yes, but it got a lot more negative reactions initially than people remember it for today. Much of its greatness has been built up after Jedi made good on its promises and closed off its open threads in a mostly satisfying manner. It would still be a great film on its own merits, but I'm not sure it would be as fondly remembered if its follow up had flopped. It gets a lot of attention for being the best film in a great trilogy and benefits from a follow up that most people really love, but can still recognize its predecessor as being a bit taller by comparison.
Azreal13 wrote: To make an argument for TLJ to be improved once it has a wider context, you'd have to find a compelling reason for the whole Casino sequence, the world's slowest starship race and the whole anti-heroic sacrifice debacle.
These are flaws that seem, to me at least, wholly contained within the movie with no particular impact to the wider arc (much of which that does is what I actually found to like in the movie, even Porgs!)
I don't see how any of that can be reframed effectively.
but 3d is cool ,gave TLJ another go last week and I'm fairly sure that's more or less the reason for the Casino, i don't have 3d telly but shots intended for 3d are really easy to spot
as for the spaceship chase, well hyper drive petrol is expensive and the rest of the fleet was busy having an agenda meeting, with whiteboards and powerpoint
and of suicide is fine if you've already got the majority of your command killed but not if it might save a few people cos you know boys are silly, unless its an old Jedi doing the exact same thing 10 minutes later
Kanluwen wrote: I feel like saying that Luke 'died for no reason' is similar to saying that Obi-Wan 'died for no reason' in ANH.
They both refuse to fight their apprentices and both die so that others can live.
The difference being the Obi-wan was PHYSICALLY on the Death Star and needed to buy some time for the others to escape. Luke was not physically on Crate and had already bought the time needed. He could have simply "turned off" the projection and been fine, then later rejoined the rest in physical form.
I get the reasoning behind why he died being the strain of the power, but that wasn't previously established and didn't have to be the case. We spent the whole of TFA looking for Luke, then most of TLJ with a shadow of Luke, then once Luke was finally back, just kidding - he's gone. WTF?
Meh, I don't mind it really. Tracking through Hyperspace is an interesting dilemma given how often the jump is used as a safety net in the setting. The overall arc including the secret mission to save the day and its surprise failing are all fun and set up the finale nicely. I quite like the overall idea that the ships are doomed but the people can survive and rebuild though it would have landed better with a couple scenes with tighter script work.
That said, its all too long and bloats the film as a whole. I'd love to see 20 min or so cut from the whole thing. The little animal escape is a nice change of tone and actually fairly succinct as I've rewatched it but gets bookended by a couple preachy speeches from DJ and Rose that don't really land. The same warped time problem with Luke's training and the Falcon chase feels more obvious in this film; in part because we're all a little older ans wiser and in part because there's no changes in the setting of the chase to mess with our perception of time passing. I've enjoyed the whole thing more on rewatches than I did originally, even if there's particularly pieces that I think would really improve it as a whole.
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Frazzled wrote: How can the Rebellion be a threat if they are so incompetent to forget to gas up at the nearest Petrox station before going on a trip?
They had plenty of gas to escape. They just didn't have a way to escape when the series go to safety net failed.
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Galef wrote: He could have simply "turned off" the projection and been fine, then later rejoined the rest in physical form.
Is there any reason to think that is the case? He's also fake fighting the whole time they're trying to find their way out of the caves. He quits about the time Rey clears the path for everyone to escape.
I very much read the Luke situation as he'd made the choice to project with the foreknowledge it was going to cost him his life, which, IIRC, had already been set up earlier?
There was no "I'll just do this for a bit and I'll be ok" it was always "if I do this, it's only going to end one way."
Azreal13 wrote: I very much read the Luke situation as he'd made the choice to project with the foreknowledge it was going to cost him his life, which, IIRC, had already been set up earlier?
There was no "I'll just do this for a bit and I'll be ok" it was always "if I do this, it's only going to end one way."
When Rey first appears to Kylo in the link, he wonders how its possible and lists a couple ideas. One is Force projection, which he dismisses because doing so would kill her.
Right, that line was written in as foreshadowing for later on. But WHY did it need to be foreshadowed and happen at all? Why does that power have to kill the user? Why does Luke have to die?
I just don't see how the greater story is serviced by killing off major characters systematically movie by movie.
Pop culture hates the idea of heroes giving up and generally would rather see them fight to their last breath. No rewards, no rest, they fight until they die and the longer they live the more frustrating it is they can't get a happy ending (still mad about Mara). On that note, it's probably the single most surprising thing about Endgame. The story completely earns it, but people are still mad Cap got a happy end.
Galef wrote: Right, that line was written in as foreshadowing for later on. But WHY did it need to be foreshadowed and happen at all? Why does that power have to kill the user? Why does Luke have to die?
I just don't see how the greater story is serviced by killing off major characters systematically movie by movie.
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I thought it was about the actors not wanting to do any more of these films?
(and after the last pils of gak who can blame them....)
Galef wrote: Right, that line was written in as foreshadowing for later on. But WHY did it need to be foreshadowed and happen at all? Why does that power have to kill the user? Why does Luke have to die?
I just don't see how the greater story is serviced by killing off major characters systematically movie by movie.
Galef wrote: Right, that line was written in as foreshadowing for later on. But WHY did it need to be foreshadowed and happen at all? Why does that power have to kill the user? Why does Luke have to die?
I just don't see how the greater story is serviced by killing off major characters systematically movie by movie.
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Why did Obi-Wan have to die?
Padme should have died in ESB so each film could have the death of one of the big three from the first 3 films.
Galef wrote: Right, that line was written in as foreshadowing for later on. But WHY did it need to be foreshadowed and happen at all? Why does that power have to kill the user? Why does Luke have to die?
I just don't see how the greater story is serviced by killing off major characters systematically movie by movie.
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Why did Obi-Wan have to die?
Because Vader got between him and the MF.
The force projection death in TLJ was foreshadowed. So was Luke having an X wing that could take him off planet if he changed his mind. Wouldn't have been much of a fakeout if they'd left Luke stranded with no ship.
In ANH Obi died because Vader was on his game.
In TLJ Luke died because he took too long of a pity party.
Frazzled wrote: How can the Rebellion be a threat if they are so incompetent to forget to gas up at the nearest Petrox station before going on a trip?
The Rebellion gassed up before Yavin, Endor, and Scarrif. You're thinking of the Resistance that runs their fleet like a teenager with their first car. They're totally different and not just a nonstalgic rehash lacking any creativity new faction.
Galef wrote: Right, that line was written in as foreshadowing for later on. But WHY did it need to be foreshadowed and happen at all? Why does that power have to kill the user? Why does Luke have to die?
I just don't see how the greater story is serviced by killing off major characters systematically movie by movie.
They're not really major characters anymore, their job is pass the torch to new generation and simplest way of doing that is to die.
Simple for the same reason as Obi Wan, Dumbledore etc. In order to allow the new heroes to mature. ("We are what they grow beyond") Old and wise mentors have a really high death rate because of this and the whole while Luke is alive why Rey and not him?
You need to lose old characters sometimes to make room in your story. This was one of the many failings of GOT in the end. They stopped losing characters and thus had way too many to use satisfyingly.
The force projection death in TLJ was foreshadowed. So was Luke having an X wing that could take him off planet if he changed his mind. Wouldn't have been much of a fakeout if they'd left Luke stranded with no ship.
Luke's X-Wing is busted and missing a wing. It's actually the door to his shed.
Simple for the same reason as Obi Wan, Dumbledore etc. In order to allow the new heroes to mature. ("We are what they grow beyond") Old and wise mentors have a really high death rate because of this and the whole while Luke is alive why Rey and not him?
You need to lose old characters sometimes to make room in your story. This was one of the many failings of GOT in the end. They stopped losing characters and thus had way too many to use satisfyingly.
That would be fine if they hadn't marketed TFA TLJ as the continuing adventures of Luke Skywalker- which is what Starwars fans wanted. Instead they asked us to care about someone else, and gave us no reason to do so, had Luke absent and inactive and Han divorced and killed.
Simple for the same reason as Obi Wan, Dumbledore etc. In order to allow the new heroes to mature. ("We are what they grow beyond") Old and wise mentors have a really high death rate because of this and the whole while Luke is alive why Rey and not him?
You need to lose old characters sometimes to make room in your story. This was one of the many failings of GOT in the end. They stopped losing characters and thus had way too many to use satisfyingly.
That would be fine if they hadn't marketed TFA TLJ as the continuing adventures of Luke Skywalker[u]- which is what Starwars fans wanted. Instead they asked us to care about someone else, and gave us no reason to do so, had Luke absent and inactive and Han divorced and killed.
I don't remember anyone using those words. 'Continuation of the Skywalker saga' and stuff like that, sure. So it's more like you decided what the story should be and then being disappointed when it wasn't.
Simple for the same reason as Obi Wan, Dumbledore etc. In order to allow the new heroes to mature. ("We are what they grow beyond") Old and wise mentors have a really high death rate because of this and the whole while Luke is alive why Rey and not him?
You need to lose old characters sometimes to make room in your story. This was one of the many failings of GOT in the end. They stopped losing characters and thus had way too many to use satisfyingly.
Or just don't bring them up in the first place. We didn't need the new Star Wars series to include any of the old heroes (except Chewbacca because he's cool). But this is Star Wars II - The Bad Ripoff so of course we did.
Simple for the same reason as Obi Wan, Dumbledore etc. In order to allow the new heroes to mature. ("We are what they grow beyond") Old and wise mentors have a really high death rate because of this and the whole while Luke is alive why Rey and not him?
You need to lose old characters sometimes to make room in your story. This was one of the many failings of GOT in the end. They stopped losing characters and thus had way too many to use satisfyingly.
That.....makes sense, actually. I can live with that.
HOWEVER! I still think we needed more time with Luke so that the mentor relationship with Rey could develop and thus be more impactful for Rey. Like, have Luke actually save them on Crate use the projection, but NOT die because of it in TLJ. Fast Forward to RoS and Luke (STILL ALIVE) has been training Rey with the help of Obi-wan, Yoda and Anakin's ghosts. Have Rey be more proficient because of this training, but not quite where she needs to be. Stuff goes down very early in the movie and Luke THEN has to sacrifice himself so that Rey can be saved and have to mature.
It just shifts his death to a different place, but makes it feel like less of a betrayal of the RotJ ending.
Frazzled wrote: Or just don't bring them up in the first place. We didn't need the new Star Wars series to include any of the old heroes (except Chewbacca because he's cool). But this is Star Wars II - The Bad Ripoff so of course we did.
I disagree. At the very least we needed Luke and at least 1 next generation Skywalker (Ben in this case). If you do not include any Skywalkers, you can't name them EP 7,8,or 9 and that is the continuation of 1-6 which revolve around Anakin & Luke
Nah. One of the best things about the death we got is that Luke never really gets beat. Denying Kylo any real sense of victory is one of the most satisfying things about it and stalling a movie for a "proper" death would have given him an unearned win. Also, while this is a bit of mixing the actor and the role, Luke going out on a massive trolling seems like a very Mark Hamill way to go.
LunarSol wrote: Nah. One of the best things about the death we got is that Luke never really gets beat. Denying Kylo any real sense of victory is one of the most satisfying things about it and stalling a movie for a "proper" death would have given him an unearned win. Also, while this is a bit of mixing the actor and the role, Luke going out on a massive trolling seems like a very Mark Hamill way to go.
That is also fair. You guys are starting to make me actually like his death in TLJ. How dare you!
What I won't like is if Luke, Obi-wan, Yoda AND Anakin force ghost council isn't at least cameo'd. We hear Luke's voice in the RoS trailer, but we heard it in TFA trailer too and he basically wasn't in that movie. If JJ is staying true to his claim that RoS will tie the saga together, we need all 4 of those Jedi Ghosts to be part of the story
LunarSol wrote: Nah. One of the best things about the death we got is that Luke never really gets beat. Denying Kylo any real sense of victory is one of the most satisfying things about it and stalling a movie for a "proper" death would have given him an unearned win. Also, while this is a bit of mixing the actor and the role, Luke going out on a massive trolling seems like a very Mark Hamill way to go.
Agreed, and 'see you around, kid' is a fantastic choice.
Spoilered news below about Dark Rey. It's kind of obvious but just in case....
Spoiler:
Apparently starwars.com confirmed in a now revised/deleted post that the Dark Rey we saw in the trailer was indeed just a vision of the future by referring to it specifically as such. They've since revised the article but the pee is already in the pool. It was always the obvious most likely scenario but it is funny that they seemingly accidentally let the obvious cat out of the bag so early on.
warboss wrote: Spoilered news below about Dark Rey. It's kind of obvious but just in case....
Spoiler:
Apparently starwars.com confirmed in a now revised/deleted post that the Dark Rey we saw in the trailer was indeed just a vision of the future by referring to it specifically as such. They've since revised the article but the pee is already in the pool. It was always the obvious most likely scenario but it is funny that they seemingly accidentally let the obvious cat out of the bag so early on.
Galef wrote: You guys are starting to make me actually like his death in TLJ. How dare you!
Generally speaking, TLJ is a film that's bothered me less as I've rewatched it. My biggest gripe is that its just too long (and Finn's arc is a big part of that, though not in the places I initially thought) to the point that its hard to find time to rewatch it. There's tons of great details and themes built throughout, and notably, once you're aware the movie is going out of its way to lie to you, you can see all the places it tipped its hand. A good example is how Leia takes a moment to meditate and prep herself for a split second before the torpedo hits, which changes a lot of the tone of that sequence, particularly now that we're a little further out from the shock of Carrie Fisher's death.
Simple for the same reason as Obi Wan, Dumbledore etc. In order to allow the new heroes to mature. ("We are what they grow beyond") Old and wise mentors have a really high death rate because of this and the whole while Luke is alive why Rey and not him?
You need to lose old characters sometimes to make room in your story. This was one of the many failings of GOT in the end. They stopped losing characters and thus had way too many to use satisfyingly.
Luke as a mentor for Rey does not work in the way he has been written. For obvious reasons, it works even less for Kylo.
Luke dying is just the writers getting rid of the old guard to promote the new heroes we are supposed to care about. It's an old fashioned element in a new, subversive story, and the contrast does not work because it needs a number of archetypes around it that simply did not happen.
The movie implies that Luke learned from Rey more than the other way around. The whole trilogy also implied that nobody learned anything, but this is another matter entirely.
LunarSol wrote: Nah. One of the best things about the death we got is that Luke never really gets beat. Denying Kylo any real sense of victory is one of the most satisfying things about it and stalling a movie for a "proper" death would have given him an unearned win. Also, while this is a bit of mixing the actor and the role, Luke going out on a massive trolling seems like a very Mark Hamill way to go.
That is also fair. You guys are starting to make me actually like his death in TLJ. How dare you!
I like Luke's death more than Han's death in TFA. Latter was quite telegraphed and also seemed to have no point except to make characters and viewers dislike Kylo Ren. Luke's demise felt better constructed and served two or three plot points simultaneously.
LunarSol wrote: Both come across as the death the actor requested as much as anything.
While I think you are right about Solo, I am not sure Hamill wanted anything that came from TLJ for Luke...
I don't think he cared for the "Luke tried to kill Ben and stopped trying to be a hero" and probably didn't want to have Luke die in the film at all, but the tone of it all feels very.... Hamill.
I believe Mark Hamill was quoted as saying he fundamentally disagreed with Luke's portrayal in TLJ (even referring to the character as Jake Skywalker or somesuch) and told Rian Johnson. He was obviously overruled by the director who also had studio head support though. He complained for a while publicly but was probably "talked to" by Disney and stopped.
warboss wrote: I believe Mark Hamill was quoted as saying he fundamentally disagreed with Luke's portrayal in TLJ (even referring to the character as Jake Skywalker or somesuch) and told Rian Johnson. He was obviously overruled by the director who also had studio head support though. He complained for a while publicly but was probably "talked to" by Disney and stopped.
Yes, early on he said he disliked the character direction. Later, he said he understood it once he saw it in action, but there's some debate as to whether that was genuinely his opinion or the result of being instructed to be more positive about the film.
Having seen Mark Hamill's twitter account, and given that he had nothing to lose since they were killing off his character anyway, the idea that he was only being more positive about the film because he was told to seems somewhat ridiculous, to be honest.
He *has* got a credit in ROS, so while it might be little more than an extended cameo in flashback or a force ghost, it still may behoove him to toe the corporate line for the time being.
Disney isn’t going to fire Luke Skywalker from Star Wars at this point. Hamill’s secure enough to not really care about the company any line anymore and honestly hasn’t been for decades.
warboss wrote: I believe Mark Hamill was quoted as saying he fundamentally disagreed with Luke's portrayal in TLJ (even referring to the character as Jake Skywalker or somesuch) and told Rian Johnson. He was obviously overruled by the director who also had studio head support though. He complained for a while publicly but was probably "talked to" by Disney and stopped.
Yes, early on he said he disliked the character direction. Later, he said he understood it once he saw it in action, but there's some debate as to whether that was genuinely his opinion or the result of being instructed to be more positive about the film.
Having seen Mark Hamill's twitter account, and given that he had nothing to lose since they were killing off his character anyway, the idea that he was only being more positive about the film because he was told to seems somewhat ridiculous, to be honest.
That seems a bit naive IMO. He has alot to lose as he is by and large only known for Star Wars unlike Harrison Ford. Has he done other things like voice acting as the joker and the old wing commander series that some (but definitely not all) hardcore fans can rattle off? Sure... but I'd hazard a guess that the percentage of the much larger casual pool of pop culture fans who recognize him as Luke falls into the margin of error in that regard. Disney has demonstrated that they have no problem casting off both actors and their fanbase that they no longer value or that they find inconvienent and Mark Hamill badmouthing his own character could easily fall under that category. Not being invited to official paid official star wars functions or having his licensing royalties cut due to disney choosing to persue other avenues in merchandise would likely be a big cut to his yearly income. Is it conjecture? Sure... but I don't feel that it's ridiculous to propose that as the reason for the sudden turnaround.
Meh... he didn't need the work, as he has no problem getting voice work. He said before TFA that he only agreed to come back on condition that Harrison Ford would also agree... because he thought there was no way in hell that would happen.
So no, it's extremely unlikely that he's just toeing the corporate line.
Disney has most definitely had a word to Mark about his voiced opinions, I also don't think he has done an interview without at least 2 disney reps being there since "he changed his mind".
But seriously the only important question that needs answering is has he learned daisy's name yet. As my favourite example of his real feelings regarding the movies is him referring to her as the girl in a number of interviews because he did not know her name.
But seriously the only important question that needs answering is has he learned daisy's name yet. As my favourite example of his real feelings regarding the movies is him referring to her as the girl in a number of interviews because he did not know her name.
That's nonsense.
SHOUT OUT to DAISY RIDLEY for no particular reason- other than being a fabulous actor, the sweetest of souls, someone who thoughtfully goes out of her way to return lost items & is more than generous with her complimentary piggy-back rides. ❤️ U- mh #DarlingDaisypic.twitter.com/IZ55lkLV4y
When I first heard Disney was going to start making Star Wars movies again I was hoping to see Mara Jade. She's my favorite character in the expanded universe. But of course they didn't follow any of it so oh well.
yellowfever wrote: When I first heard Disney was going to start making Star Wars movies again I was hoping to see Mara Jade. She's my favorite character in the expanded universe. But of course they didn't follow any of it so oh well.
Mara Jade's story arc was so tied to Luke Skywalker that she would be somewhat hard to bring back under current lore. Though I suppose eventually she does come back.
We have literally no idea what Luke was actually doing in the 30 years between 6 & 7. I think in the EU Mara would have been dead by the time TFA was supposed to start.
So if you want Mara to have still existed, the films don't explicitly refute that. It just requires Han and Leia's son to have gone to the dark side...
I guess I still do care deep inside, but I'm hardly excited for new releases anymore.
Cosidering the wealth of content there is between the OT, the prequels (which I cherish despite their awkwardness) and the EU material, I guess I will never run out of Star Wars stuff to dive into.
As far as the new stuff is concerned, I just ignore whatever is bad and move on.
Backfire wrote: Mara Jade's story arc was so tied to Luke Skywalker that she would be somewhat hard to bring back under current lore. Though I suppose eventually she does come back.
That was kinda my point. They didn't follow the expanded universe. I was hoping they were going to, then I could have possibly got Mara Jade. I wanted to see her during her time as an Emperors Hand.
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Riquende wrote: We have literally no idea what Luke was actually doing in the 30 years between 6 & 7. I think in the EU Mara would have been dead by the time TFA was supposed to start.
So if you want Mara to have still existed, the films don't explicitly refute that. It just requires Han and Leia's son to have gone to the dark side...
I believe Luke and Mara were the same age. So if Luke was alive she could be too.
Riquende wrote: We have literally no idea what Luke was actually doing in the 30 years between 6 & 7. I think in the EU Mara would have been dead by the time TFA was supposed to start.
.
TFA was about 5 years before the Legacy of the Force series in the EU. So no, if the EU was still in play, Mara would have been alive and married to Luke at the start of TFA.
There's always the possibility that Mara will be introduced into the new canon at some point, given that she was a bit of a fan favourite... but I would suspect that her story will be very, very different.
I'm more or less done with Star Wars...BUT...for the Mark Hamill fans out there he did a pretty fun job on Knightfall, Season 2 (on Netflix). He's an absolutely miserable cuss and it's wonderful.
I believe Luke and Mara were the same age. So if Luke was alive she could be too.
I meant if you'd wanted that same story to have played out, where she was murdered.
But Insaniak is right, Legacy of the Force is way later than I'd remembered (apparently the NJO and Dark Nest books run over 11 years!). TFA and TLJ actually take place after the NJO is over but just before Dark Nest begins.
I was pretty out on the EU with the Vong, but Mara's death was definitely the point where I was done and didn't follow it further beyond the occasional wiki read.
Mara’s death bothered you and Chewie’s didn’t? Weird. For those not “in the know”, the Vong used gravitational pull to drop a moon on a planet. Cheeks rescued one of Han’s and Leia’s children and the moon collapsed on the planet, killing him. He was last seen raging at the moon as it barreled down right where he was standing.
timetowaste85 wrote: Mara’s death bothered you and Chewie’s didn’t? Weird. For those not “in the know”, the Vong used gravitational pull to drop a moon on a planet. Cheeks rescued one of Han’s and Leia’s children and the moon collapsed on the planet, killing him. He was last seen raging at the moon as it barreled down right where he was standing.
No, I was out as of the Vong. I might have read one book past Chewie's death, but by then I was fully aware that Star Wars has never been a story about evil invading aliens and they don't work in the setting. I just tried to get back into it after all the Vong nonsense was done and found Mara's death to kind of be the point where I realized Luke, Leia, and Hans' stories had gone on a little long and weren't going to benefit from additional material anymore. Finding out they'd killed off Anakin Jr to undo a bad retcon was definitely a bit of salt in the moon sized Chewie wound as well and made me realize I just needed a time skip. Unfortunately, that jump lead me straight to Darth Vongsuit and at that point I was well and truly done.
I bailed on the EU with the black fleet crisis, which was one of the first times even as a teenager I was able to spot a book going through the motions.
No, I was out as of the Vong. I might have read one book past Chewie's death, but by then I was fully aware that Star Wars has never been a story about evil invading aliens and they don't work in the setting.
See, I actually loved the Vong arc, precisely because it was something different to the usual 'Ex-Imperial Warlord has the superweapon of the week' or 'Jedi [insert name here] goes bad' story lines that predominated the EU up to that point.
Dark Nest would have been a good continuation of that (was still 'Jedi go bad' in essence, but was at least different), if the books hadn't been awful.
Finding out they'd killed off Anakin Jr to undo a bad retcon...
Polonius wrote: I bailed on the EU with the black fleet crisis, which was one of the first times even as a teenager I was able to spot a book going through the motions.
I actually liked the main part of the Black Fleet Crisis books, it was the first time the New Republic felt like a secure, settled entity.
I will admit that the Luke sidequest being tricked into finding his 'mother' and the Lando/R2/3P0 sidequest to track down a ghost treasure ship were a bit pants.
Polonius wrote: I bailed on the EU with the black fleet crisis, which was one of the first times even as a teenager I was able to spot a book going through the motions.
I actually liked the main part of the Black Fleet Crisis books, it was the first time the New Republic felt like a secure, settled entity.
I will admit that the Luke sidequest being tricked into finding his 'mother' and the Lando/R2/3P0 sidequest to track down a ghost treasure ship were a bit pants.
I did like that the New Republic was actually portrayed as a mature government, so I'll give you that. The military aspects of the actual crisis were good, and I remember enjoying some of the twists and turns of it. That said, that's half of one of three storylines... the level of political intrigue exceeded the authors ability, and as you said, the two side quests would have been fine short stories or novellas, but way too bloated. It's a shame, because after the thrawn trilogy (lost jedi/imperial remnant), Jedi Acadamy (lost imperial super weapon/fallen new jedi), and the restored palpatine story arcs, they should have focused less on the huge plot points, and told smaller stories. Look at a book like courtship of princess leia - it might not be anybody's favorite, but it's a good yarn. Ditto the x-wing series.
Finding out they'd killed off Anakin Jr to undo a bad retcon...
Not sure what you're referring to here.
Anakin Solo (who Chewie died throwing up to the Falcon before getting hit with the moon). I forget the specifics but I remember his death being tied up in weird attempts to get rid and then reestablish the Light/Dark Side of the Force. In any case, it didn't exactly endear me to either the Vong arc or the status quo that existed after.
Anakin was killed because Lucas wouldn't allow Del Rey to use him as the main protagonist for NJO, he felt it would be "too confusing to the fans" to have an Anakin Skywalker AND and Anakin Solo, despite the fact that NJO was almost complete and none of the fans had been the least confused between Anakin Solo and Skywalker at any point in the previous 10+ years that Anakin Solo had been in the EU. But this was right about the time that Revenge of the Sith was releasing and he was in Full Lucas Mode. So Del Rey killed off Anakin as a plot device to make Jacen Solo the main hero/antihero, leading into Jacen's fall into the Dark Side and becoming a Sith Lord in the Legacy of the Force novels. I never actually read them, I was kinda checked out of the EU because of how messy the prequels made it and how cavalierly Lucas tossed it all away.
I feel the same about the new EU: Disney tossed out EVERYTHING, so all the stuff I read in the '90 and '00s is just...gone. Ignored. Never happened. All the books, all the comics, all the video games. Gone.
The new movies have been hit & miss so far, I've mostly enjoyed them, but I just can't bring myself to get involved in a whole new EU when the last one that I cared so much about was just thrown away wholesale. There's no reason that Kylo Ren couldn't have simply been named Jacen Solo instead of Ben. No need to mention a twin sister or younger brother, no need to mention Yuuzahn Vong. But if they'd used the name Jacen it would have opened up the possibility of bringing any of it back. But nope, all gone. I still love Star Wars, but it's in a really weird limbo right now for me
Anakin Solo (who Chewie died throwing up to the Falcon before getting hit with the moon). I forget the specifics but I remember his death being tied up in weird attempts to get rid and then reestablish the Light/Dark Side of the Force. In any case, it didn't exactly endear me to either the Vong arc or the status quo that existed after.
Yeah, I got that you were talking about Anakin Solo, I just still don't know what retcon you're talking about.
Kalamadea wrote: I feel the same about the new EU: Disney tossed out EVERYTHING, so all the stuff I read in the '90 and '00s is just...gone. Ignored. Never happened. All the books, all the comics, all the video games. Gone.
I just checked my bookshelves... Those books all still appear to be there. Yes, they're now a separate continuity to the ongoing stuff, but if you still like them, you can still read them.
Anakin Solo (who Chewie died throwing up to the Falcon before getting hit with the moon). I forget the specifics but I remember his death being tied up in weird attempts to get rid and then reestablish the Light/Dark Side of the Force. In any case, it didn't exactly endear me to either the Vong arc or the status quo that existed after.
Yeah, I got that you were talking about Anakin Solo, I just still don't know what retcon you're talking about.
Kalamadea wrote: I feel the same about the new EU: Disney tossed out EVERYTHING, so all the stuff I read in the '90 and '00s is just...gone. Ignored. Never happened. All the books, all the comics, all the video games. Gone.
I just checked my bookshelves... Those books all still appear to be there. Yes, they're now a separate continuity to the ongoing stuff, but if you still like them, you can still read them.
I may have the details wrong. I really was pretty out at that point.
Regardless of the reasons for him going, I was actually ok with them killing off Anakin, for the same reason as it was ok for them to kill off Chewie - after 40 years, all of the 'main' characters were starting to look a little too invincible, and really needed some thinning out. Having those 'untouchable' characters die occasionally adds some actual risk into the storyline.
Seems a little extreme to judge an author's entire bibliography from one book... And also means that you would have missed out on the X-wing books, which are amongst the best of the EU range.
Not sure what people have against I,Jedi, honestly. It wasn't amazing, but wasn't terrible either.
Im surprised when anyone dislikes the Xwing series. Those are just great, fun books, and would have made an absolutely awesome movie trilogy, after Heir to the Empire.
AegisGrimm wrote: Im surprised when anyone dislikes the Xwing series. Those are just great, fun books, and would have made an absolutely awesome movie trilogy, after Heir to the Empire.
Moreso, I think. For all that I love Zahn's series, the X-wing books feel much more 'Star Wars' in tone.
If you like Zahn and Stackpole, you could do worse than checking out the 'collab' novella they wrote for West End Games - a Thrawn/Horn (both Hal and Corran) crossover, set before Endor - Side Trip.
It was published in a series of WEG adventure journals but was reprinted in full in the Tales from the Empire compendium which is probably easier to get hold of.
"Smugglers Haber Trell and Maranne Darmic and their freighter are captured while smuggling arms for the Rebels and threatened by the Galactic Empire into assisting a notorious bounty hunter, Jodo Kast, in catching his prey on Corellia. It is all part of a devious plan by Admiral Thrawn that includes the father-and-son team of CorSec investigators Hal and Corran Horn, who are working undercover to nail the infamous Corellian warlord Zekka Thyne. But one slipup can get them all killed."
If I had the cash I’d buy two. One to build and one to sell on in a year or two. You’d get double the money back for sure. Damn I’d hate to think how much i could get for my Star Wars Lego collection.
Wish i had grabbed another ewok village when I bought my other one.
I used to have a shop like that in my hometown. It sold the old 1970s figures OOB for about $3-4/figure, had a TON of in cabinet figures (the rare ones) on a revolving display, and carried EVERYTHING! Was called “Galactic Toys” and it was owned by a local auction house. I still have a plaster R2 lamp from there. I loved that place.
There's been an overall coarsening of public discourse, certainly due in part to social media, but also to the increasingly polarized politics of our country.
That said... the right wing can shut up about the Mark Hamill thing. He didn't make fun of the kid, he made fun of the parents, who were trying to get some cheap heat by latching unto a popular fandom.
After seeing the internet call a high school girl a Nazi for essentially giving a glorified book report, I can't abide any pearl clutching at the moment.
Conversely, there's a whole lot of people out there irked at the notion that they and their problems can be ignored because they're not being sufficiently polite and audience-oriented.
Nurglitch wrote: Conversely, there's a whole lot of people out there irked at the notion that they and their problems can be ignored because they're not being sufficiently polite and audience-oriented.
shh... there's nothing quite like the hypocrisy of the right wing outrage machine. It's beautiful in it's own way.
One thing I try to do is distance artist from art, especially something as complicated as film making, where dozens to hundreds of artists help shape it. I have no problem listening to Bill Cosby albums while eating Chik Fil A.
Polonius wrote:There's been an overall coarsening of public discourse, certainly due in part to social media, but also to the increasingly polarized politics of our country.
That said... the right wing can shut up about the Mark Hamill thing. He didn't make fun of the kid, he made fun of the parents, who were trying to get some cheap heat by latching unto a popular fandom.
After seeing the internet call a high school girl a Nazi for essentially giving a glorified book report, I can't abide any pearl clutching at the moment.
Polonius wrote:
Nurglitch wrote: Conversely, there's a whole lot of people out there irked at the notion that they and their problems can be ignored because they're not being sufficiently polite and audience-oriented.
shh... there's nothing quite like the hypocrisy of the right wing outrage machine. It's beautiful in it's own way.
Despite what you may think, this website isn't an echo chamber. Attacking ANY group is bad form, worse so when it violates the rules of this site.
Polonius wrote: One thing I try to do is distance artist from art, especially something as complicated as film making, where dozens to hundreds of artists help shape it. I have no problem listening to Bill Cosby albums while eating Chik Fil A.
Unfortunately, I don't think I can when the artists in question actively try to narrow that distance every chance they get. When actors attack their own fanbase (especially unprovoked like in this situation), I lose respect for them.
So what is everyone's favourite Star Wars alien? Mine is the Gran (the three eyed goat men) but a lot of their cool background seems to have been kicked out of the cannon into Legends
You want to know what really. Seriously. Genuinely. Harshes my Star Wars mellow?
The incessant and ongoing whining on both sides.
Liked a given film? Good for you. Genuinely.
Hated a given film? Good for you. Genuinely.
But, just leave be. I genuinely hate dipping into Star Wars threads and seeing the same old tosh doled out over and over and over.
Yes. I’ve done much the same myself.
But right now? Right now? I’m 39 years old. I’m staring down 40, and I know who’s destined to win. I’m also listening to the original Transformers Movie soundtrack because end to end it’s a stonecold banger.
Comment on the background. Discuss stuff between canon and no longer canon. That’s interesting.
But please. Enough with thinly veiled nonsense. Nobody really, truly cares what the next man thinks about these films. Not really.
I mean, I’ve been overly vocal, and I accept my own hypocrisy, because I for one absolutely don’t bloody care anymore.
WTF happened to fandom that we now focus on stuff we don’t like over the common ground?
We’re nerds. We’re freaks. We’re geeks. We. Are. Better. Than. This. And we should be united in what we enjoy, not bickering like buttmunches over minutiae.
So I offer a comment truce for those willing. Because ultimately, it’s all pretty bloody pointless.
WTF happened to fandom that we now focus on stuff we don’t like over the common ground?
We’re nerds. We’re freaks. We’re geeks. We. Are. Better. Than. This. And we should be united in what we enjoy, not bickering like buttmunches over minutiae.
This. . . . To go slightly (ok, majorly) off-topic for a moment, I would say that there are some fandoms where argument/banter/bickering are part and parcel of the fandom. I know I'm an oddity on this site, as I also absolutely LOOOVE motorsport. You get 2 fans of endurance racing in the same room, and an argument breaks out. Is Ferrari better than Ford? Is Porsche better than X? WHICH Porsche is the best Porsche to ever run at Le Mans? Is Lewis Hamilton a better driver than Michael Schumacher was? You see where this is going? Argument is part and parcel and a core aspect of motorsport fandom. In general, the motorsport fandom community does rally around one similar thing: NASCAR sucks.
I agree with this post in that, most of us are guilty of bashing each other over some aspect of SW that we happen to like. Seeing things put in this way, I am seeing a bit more reasoning behind my recent departure from participating in GW products as aside from my departure as a PT employee where I felt a "need" to be "excited" over every release (and I couldn't fake that anymore), there were enough regulars at my local shop where they generally had a negative view of things (ie, the ONLY way to play X army is this one way, if you're not using Y unit in this other army, you're stupid, ohh I hate how GW is doing this thing to prices, ohh why can't they just release the one hyper-specific thing that only *I* want???), it can be a real drag on things.
In terms of SW, I've typically loved the action sequences.
Re: the latest question, I'd say my favorite "race" in SW has to be the Mandalorians. I mean specifically Boba Fett, and the Boba Fett of the pre-prequel EU. Back when Mandalorians were this hyper mysterious thing where Mr. Fett was the "last" remaining Mandalorian. I loved something with the specific mysteriousness of him/ his race.
Continuing the hopefully less divisive trend, thought it was worth mentioning for anyone chasing an OT-era fix that a lot of the current run of Marvel Star Wars comics are free with Amazon Prime Reading at the moment (at least in the UK).
They are also fantastic, and to my mind, do for the OT what Clone Wars did for the PT; they really do a great job of fleshing out the characters and relationships in a way the films just don't have time to do, while remaining very authentic to the tone and styling of the original material. They also put Leia front and centre a lot of the time, giving her the chance to be the badass leader/war hero that the films always say she is but that we very rarely get to see.
The Vader run is also good, crossing over directly with that main one and generally just giving the aforementioned Dark Lord of the Sith room to be the brutal, impossibly powerful killing machine that you see at the end of Rogue One. The height of this is the Vader Down crossover, which essentially pits Vader by his lonesome against a planetary garrison of Rebels, and lets the fireworks ensue.
The other run I'd recommend, also largely free at the mo, is Doctor Aphra, a character I've done a complete 180 on having read her own run as well as her appearances in Vader. It's Star Wars from the Everyman perspective, but the Everyman that is also just the worst person imaginable. Not in an Evil Dark Side Empire ideology sort of way, but in an incredibly human, selfish and self-aware way that is by turns hilarious and really rather tragic. She's the exact sort of character I think DJ was supposed to be in TLJ, but executed far better with the benefit of a more complete focus on how exactly that sort of individual works in a setting that is largely defined by literal concepts of Light and Dark.
The Poe Dameron run is also on there, but I've not read that yet. If anyone has, is it any good?
I'm generally liking the way Lucasfilm has been handling its new 'expanded universe' style projects, it feels like they're applying the expertise they've built up from making the old EU all through the 90s but having the sequel movies in place constrains them from indulging in the worst excesses of the same. It feels like the authors are all on the same page regarding what should be concrete facts of the setting (for example, how the gaps in the Empire that the Rebels exploit come from an institutional focus on the big picture rather than a new and unique flavour of personal incompetence on the part of a specific officer) and in general it feels like the authors are supporting each others' ideas, or at least pulling in the same direction. I never expected to like the idea of Operation Cinder, but the more they build on it and its consequences the more intrigued I am about it. (Related: I'm listening to Alphabet Squadron for a third time)
I'm actually thinking it might be fun to do a one-shot campaign with the crew of a ship participating in Operation Cinder mutinying. It'd have to be a smaller one to be practical, like a nebulon B or something else, carrying some clandestine planet ruining OP...
Anyway, to the question: I actually really like the Nemoidians, bad accents aside. They were smart, industrious, practical, and for me embodied a sort of cutting-edge or high-tech aesthetic that contrasted with the old-school car feel that the Republic proper has (unfortunately the distinction got muddled during the Clone Wars proper and the CIS is a mess aesthetically). I also, from a narrative perspective, like the idea that they were basically dissolved as a culture and essentially reintegrated with the Duros because the Emperor rewarded their loyalty by making them scapegoats for the whole war.
Polonius wrote: There's been an overall coarsening of public discourse, certainly due in part to social media, but also to the increasingly polarized politics of our country.
That said... the right wing can shut up about the Mark Hamill thing. He didn't make fun of the kid, he made fun of the parents, who were trying to get some cheap heat by latching unto a popular fandom.
After seeing the internet call a high school girl a Nazi for essentially giving a glorified book report, I can't abide any pearl clutching at the moment.
Kroem wrote: So what is everyone's favourite Star Wars alien? Mine is the Gran (the three eyed goat men) but a lot of their cool background seems to have been kicked out of the cannon into Legends
Kroem wrote: I didn't realise Porgs had so many fans!
What's so cool about the Transdoshians then? The way they look? Or that they hunt down living rugs?
Do you see Boba Fett's face in the original films? Turns out Mandalorians are not aliens but just Maori warriors...
As a kid, I loved monsters , especially reptilian monsters. But only if their faces carried on the theme. The lizard man from the Garfield Spider-Man movies with the reptilian body but flat, humanish face makes me angry. Trandoshans have snouts, and “lizardy “ heads, which made them awesome. Add in the claws and the voice, and you’ve got a winner.
A favorite is hard. I've always liked the blend. Its more common to see groups of aliens of the same species in the EU, but in the films they're all one offs paired up with one another to exaggerate the differences and keep things feeling alien even after you've seen them a hundred times.
Rebels is pretty damn good (mostly), Resistance is... not so much! Going to be interesting to see what they do with it as they have announced that they are killing the series after this season.
ingtaer wrote: Rebels is pretty damn good (mostly), Resistance is... not so much! Going to be interesting to see what they do with it as they have announced that they are killing the series after this season.
Well, Rebels did get a lot better towards the end of S1 and onwards, a small handful of later derps aside. However, the difference is that Rebels had the fundamental ingredients all there - good crew, cool ship, solid premise - and just needed to figure out the recipe. Resistance...doesn't. The characters range from forgettable to annoying(IMO), the premise is pretty daft(IMO), and the art style & design work is very marmite. In order to make a good second season, at least for my money, they'd need to essentially make it an entirely different show.
Hopefully once the ST is wrapped up they'll let Filoni & Co do even more TCW, or make the Rebels follow up implied by the ending.
I was just reminiscing and does anyone remember, when Phantom Menace first came out, there was this toy in cereal boxes that was Jar Jar's head with a long sticky tongue inside.
It was great for about 5 minutes until all the carpet fluff, dust and other rubbish stuck to it; whereupon it became the ultimate weapon of terror against little sisters!
The Mandalorian has my interest. But it isn't about a Fett so... i am tentative. Rise of Skywalker I am really torn on. i thought Abrams set up a lot of cool plot lines that Johnson just crapped all over or straight up ignored. Not sure how Abrams is going to save this trilogy without it all being a disjointed mess. Seems like bringing Palpatine back may be a desperate grasp since Smoke was so unceremoniously snuffed before we even found out who he was.
I have faith in Abrams but, Johnson did such a hatchet job I am not sure even JJ can really put this thing back on the rails.
I've never really had faith in Abrams setup. He's just too fond of mysteries without having actually thought about answering them. I really enjoy his films in general though, so its a mixed bag for me. I'm just not upset about the answers we got (and some of them I quite like) simply because I'm not accustomed to Abrams doing much better when he answers them himself.
LunarSol wrote: I've never really had faith in Abrams setup. He's just too fond of mysteries without having actually thought about answering them. I really enjoy his films in general though, so its a mixed bag for me. I'm just not upset about the answers we got (and some of them I quite like) simply because I'm not accustomed to Abrams doing much better when he answers them himself.
This. Abrams like to just throw mysteries on the screen without any real plan for how to solve them, if he even intends to solve them at all.
This was writ large with the mess of mysteries that were chucked into Lost.
In my group of friends has about the same attitude as most in this thread..
Mandalorian does look good and they brought over a ton of Marvel people to help out.. One worry is they will only release slowly... eye dropper pace compared to binge watching like people are use too.
But I can agree the New generation of movies are off the road and in the ditch... Going to be hard to get it back on the road because there is a lot of fate lost.
Just hope they don't use time travel to fix the problems... It was defeat the giant sky laser was the go to movie trope; now it is time travel to fix your plot holes.
Yodhrin wrote: Well, Rebels did get a lot better towards the end of S1 and onwards, a small handful of later derps aside. However, the difference is that Rebels had the fundamental ingredients all there - good crew, cool ship, solid premise - and just needed to figure out the recipe. Resistance...doesn't. The characters range from forgettable to annoying(IMO), the premise is pretty daft(IMO), and the art style & design work is very marmite. In order to make a good second season, at least for my money, they'd need to essentially make it an entirely different show.
To give credit where it's due I thought they did shuffle the status quo pretty effectively about three quarters into season 1. Despite the ads making it seem like Oban Star Racers the actual 'racing' stuff only takes center stage a couple of times while the main push of the show is Kaz working as a mechanic and moonlighting as an urban explorer/spy, fighting pirates and such, with the occasional away mission episode with Poe that feels a lot more like something out of Rebels. That all changes about three quarters in when...
Spoiler:
One of said adventures puts the scare on the the station administrator, who asks the First Order to help with the ongoing pirate problem. They occupy the station, the races get cancelled, and Kaz' main job is suddenly way more dangerous.
We start to settle into a new status quo, with the show showing how the First Order talks a good game about bringing stability and therefore peace to the citizens who support them while rounding up agitators and undesirable aliens and shipping them to parts unknown while Kaz tries to get the word out to the Resistance - only for that to get blown off the rails when Hux does his whole 'last day of the Republic' speech to kick off the two-part season finale.
So... Yeah. Season 1 is very much an extended prologue with the events of Force Awakens hitting the characters like a freight train. It's still aiming for a younger demographic than clone wars or even rebels so I doubt it's second half is going to be mind blowing, but I don't think the show itself is inherently flawed.
If anything I think it's ending because Filoni moved in to the Mandalorian project and they feel they can wrap it up as a lead-in to Rise closer to the actual movie release?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also I don't really think the movies are off-track narratively.
I know they said they were approaching each movie one at a time with no overarching plan but I think that's a smokescreen - JJ seems to be saying as much when he has (repeatedly now) stated that he hasn't had to do anything to correct the course following anything that was done, said, or shown in TLJ.
Yes it's wishful thinking. But I hope it's true, and I hope they stick the landing.
I know they said they were approaching each movie one at a time with no overarching plan
This to me was the biggest mistake if true. The original star wars trilogy all had different directors but they had a singular writer behind them in George Lucas. The new trilogy should have been the same. The script for all three films should have been written and approved before production on TFA even began. Then we wouldn't have any speculation on the "mysteries" that JJ set up and Rian Johnson threw out/ignored.
I love star wars, and never mistake my criticisms as dislike. I'm just also an armchair filmmaker and so talking about this kind of stuff is fascinating to me.
My favorite alien is the weird little surgery guys on the asteroid where Padme dies in revenge of the sith. They have a name I just can't look them up this instant.
I know they said they were approaching each movie one at a time with no overarching plan
This to me was the biggest mistake if true. The original star wars trilogy all had different directors but they had a singular writer behind them in George Lucas. The new trilogy should have been the same. The script for all three films should have been written and approved before production on TFA even began. Then we wouldn't have any speculation on the "mysteries" that JJ set up and Rian Johnson threw out/ignored.
I love star wars, and never mistake my criticisms as dislike. I'm just also an armchair filmmaker and so talking about this kind of stuff is fascinating to me.
My favorite alien is the weird little surgery guys on the asteroid where Padme dies in revenge of the sith. They have a name I just can't look them up this instant.
Yeah I have to agree. You can always tell when the stories have been made up as they went along, and they almost always suffer for it as a result too.
The original trilogy definitely flies by the seat of its pants though. George has always had a general story in mind, but the details have never been particularly firm. Leia ended up becoming Luke's sister to fill a plot hole after they set up a storyarc in Empire for Ep 7 before they decided to stop with RotJ being the most egregious, but generally speaking the series made up a lot as it went. Honestly, one of the biggest issues every movie since RotJ has suffered from, is simply that they're made by people that still want to play in the sandbox after the fans have boxed it in with pretty rigid rules.
I figured it was part of their 'under new management' branding. A deliberate contrast to George who would, quite often, insist that every dramatic beat, every line, every detail of whatever prequel movie he was currently working on had been his intention since the 1970s and everything was proceeding according to his design.
Problem is, one can (and people did) see it as them saying 'we're rudderless and don't know what to do', which is the scariest thing you can say when dealing with a massive franchise. But again, given what we've seen out of the tie-in material so far I don't think it's true; it feels like they're being very careful and deliberate.
LunarSol wrote: The original trilogy definitely flies by the seat of its pants though. George has always had a general story in mind, but the details have never been particularly firm. Leia ended up becoming Luke's sister to fill a plot hole after they set up a storyarc in Empire for Ep 7 before they decided to stop with RotJ being the most egregious, but generally speaking the series made up a lot as it went. Honestly, one of the biggest issues every movie since RotJ has suffered from, is simply that they're made by people that still want to play in the sandbox after the fans have boxed it in with pretty rigid rules.
This is a good way to put it.
Captain Joystick wrote: A deliberate contrast to George who would, quite often, insist that every dramatic beat, every line, every detail of whatever prequel movie he was currently working on had been his intention since the 1970s and everything was proceeding according to his design.
Right? Even as we know that wasn't remotely the case. I used to wonder about his motivations, but I eventually settled on the idea that it's as much about self-deception as anything else.
A lot of it is just the difference between dreams and pen on paper. Most people have a story in their head and they tell it, if only to themselves, over and over, but as they tell it, the details change, the specifics, but its still the same story in their mind.
The one that always stands out to me is the fate of Padme. It was always one of the trickier aspects of the original puzzle. Writing the base idea; villain is hero's father. Easy enough; particularly if you don't try to figure out the specifics. How old was Luke when Obi-Wan hid him? Did Vader know Padme was pregnant? What happened to her? Why didn't Vader go looking for him if he knew? None of the questions are really that hard, but if you answer them one by one; you fence yourself in a little more at a time and eventually find yourself stuck because the pieces don't fit. I think George runs into a lot of this kind of planning. Its not that he didn't have a plan; just that the plan wasn't "real".
LunarSol wrote: The original trilogy definitely flies by the seat of its pants though. George has always had a general story in mind, but the details have never been particularly firm. Leia ended up becoming Luke's sister to fill a plot hole after they set up a storyarc in Empire for Ep 7 before they decided to stop with RotJ being the most egregious, but generally speaking the series made up a lot as it went. Honestly, one of the biggest issues every movie since RotJ has suffered from, is simply that they're made by people that still want to play in the sandbox after the fans have boxed it in with pretty rigid rules.
This is a good way to put it.
Eh, the question I always ask when I see some creative type whinging about being "boxed in" is - why are you playing in someone else's sandbox in the first place then? If you want to do your own thing by all means, toddle off and make the movie/show/game/whatever you want to make, but taking the paycheque to work in an existing setting and then complaining you have to work within that setting's history & themes? Forget the fans, that's entitlement IMO.
LunarSol wrote: The original trilogy definitely flies by the seat of its pants though. George has always had a general story in mind, but the details have never been particularly firm. Leia ended up becoming Luke's sister to fill a plot hole after they set up a storyarc in Empire for Ep 7 before they decided to stop with RotJ being the most egregious, but generally speaking the series made up a lot as it went. Honestly, one of the biggest issues every movie since RotJ has suffered from, is simply that they're made by people that still want to play in the sandbox after the fans have boxed it in with pretty rigid rules.
This is a good way to put it.
Eh, the question I always ask when I see some creative type whinging about being "boxed in" is - why are you playing in someone else's sandbox in the first place then? If you want to do your own thing by all means, toddle off and make the movie/show/game/whatever you want to make, but taking the paycheque to work in an existing setting and then complaining you have to work within that setting's history & themes? Forget the fans, that's entitlement IMO.
Does it still count if the first of the creative types upset about being boxed in was George Lucas?
LunarSol wrote: Writing the base idea; villain is hero's father...
Which, incidentally, is another example of Lucas making stuff up as he went along. When ANH was made, Vader wasn't Luke's father... He and Anakin were two different people, hence Obi-Wan's explanation to Luke that was retconned to 'Well, I was only sort of lying to you...'
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Wasn’t the OT only successful because a group of talented people kept Lucas boxed in?
I think that's the narrative that gets peddled around today, but honestly I think in its day the OT was so unlike anything that had come before it, it would have turned out fine regardless. It might not have endured or held up as well, but a lot of the things we hold as critical to the experience also defined what critical to the experience means. They were released to an audience open to whatever new ideas they might add to the universe. It's hard to say that if things had been different they would have been worse. They may have just been different.
It's an interesting question. See, I instinctively lean toward the idea that TESB being so good -- people other than Lucas figuring heavily here -- was the key to the SW franchise enduring like it has.
But to be fair, it would have done the same box office regardless. And even if TESB had been 'meh' -- hell, even if it'd been BAD -- geeks would still have lapped it up. Totally different geek environment in those days. And the SW franchise contracted quite a bit anyway in the years between the OT and the prequels.
So maybe things really wouldn't be that different if we'd gotten the full Lucas and the quality of the OT slipped accordingly. It might be the same, just with worse movies. Maybe a little less general appeal.
Captain Joystick wrote: A deliberate contrast to George who would, quite often, insist that every dramatic beat, every line, every detail of whatever prequel movie he was currently working on had been his intention since the 1970s and everything was proceeding according to his design.
Maybe that was the problem? The way I see it, major issue with prequels was that there was nobody to work with Lucas, or challenge him or present their own ideas - unlike in the first trilogy. Prequel scripts come across as drafts.
Prequels have a host of problems. Chief among them is just that for Lucas they were more about the prospects of digital filmmaking than telling the actual story. A lot of their clout was spent forcing digital projectors into theaters.
On the story side, one interesting thing to note is that there was originally supposed to be something of an Episode 0 that took place before the "Fall of the Republic" trilogy. It's often stated that this was abandoned, but I'd guess that it became EpI, with the actual prequel arc getting cut to 2 films instead. There's some personal bias there, but I've long felt the biggest issue with the structure of the prequels is that they needed:
Star of the War
Anakin becomes Vader
Rise of hte Empire
and shoving those last two into one film rushed the important parts.
Perhaps, Ep.I and II have way longer chronological gap between them than II and III.
Yes, Lucas wanted to push the technological envelope and at some point tail began to wag the dog.
Prequels perhaps have not aged well in technological respects. While some of the stuff still looks real good, many of the environments look fake or computer game-ish by todays standards. Also small stuff like lightsabers' glow, in prequels their light is not reflected in surroundings (like actors' faces). It's something what really stands out after you first notice it. 'Cleanliness' of the prequels did not personally bother me though, as they took place in more prosperous and peaceful time compared to banged-up, dusty Galactic backwater of the OT.
Lucas was personally disappointed with TFA and thought it way too unambitious, and here I have to agree with him.
I don't have a problem with the CGI in the prequels - In a way, the excessive reliance on it did the movies a favour, I think. Because so much of those movies is CGI, even if it starts to look a little cartoony in places it still at least all looks consistent.
By contrast, the CGI inserted into the OT special editions started to look dated incredibly quickly, and I find it really jarring.
It generally looks worse in EpII than either of the others because they relied on it far too heavily for pretty much everything. EpI holds up best in hindsight, though EpIII does some convincing things visually so its nice to see the tech improved. It's worth noting that EpII looks so cartoony that when Rebels included a flashback to the start of the Clone Wars, they just put a sepia filter over the actual movie and it looked like it was part of the cartoon.
That said, there's a lot of stuff that honestly didn't age well with the originals (particularly THE original) that's a little hard to remember after all the touch ups. Lightsabers have never actually cast a glow for example, though the lighting always hid that well (I think it used to be canon that they were so efficient light didn't actually escape the blade, but its cooler if it does so meh). A lot of the original blaster bolts, lightsabers, and explosions didn't hold up great, and a lot of locations like Bespin were pretty boring once you stopped imagining more interesting backgrounds. They hold up better, but for the flack the prequels get, the originals weren't trying to create something like Mustafar.
Would be intersting to find out everything they are doing creativley.
3 TV series; CW, Mandalorian and Cassian.
Finish of this triolgy of films, a new trilogy, Obi-Wan, preprequel films, anymore?
New Thrawn trilogy of books.
And all the comics (any on going)?
I think we may hit the point of maximum saturation soon.
I don't know that saturation will be an issue, given that some of those things are years away (there's a year off between Rise of Skywalker and the new trilogy picking up and I'd be amazed if we see things like Kenobi before 2021ish), And there's very little overlap between what's coming up, all the TV series will presumably remain very separate, and possibly on a fairly slow release cycle considering how long The Mandolorian has already been in development. Clone Wars is only a single series of a dozen episodes that probably won't go any further.
Can't speak for the books, but the comics have been good at keeping to a handful of core runs and the occasional oneoff, there's rarely more than 3-4 ongoing runs at any given time. At present, off the top of my head you've got Greg Pak taking over from Kieron Gilleon on Star Wars, Doctor Aphra moving towards a conclusion, I think Charles Soule's Vader run is done and being replaced with a Kylo Ren series, and then the Age Of Republic/Rebellion/Resistance which are mostly oneshots. Certainly manageable compared to The Big Two's comic publishing schedules.
I don't think SW can necessarily maintain the Marvel pace of 3 films, 3-4 series across various platforms and practically infinite comics each year, but equally, the current upcoming slate is no where near that packed. So long as the quality stays up, I don't forsee any issues.
,gave TLJ another go last week and I'm fairly sure that's more or less the reason for the Casino, i don't have 3d telly but shots intended for 3d are really easy to spot
