The following is the "top 10" and their respective army list (this is a WIP thread and I will update lists/information as I can)-if you know the lists/people's Dakka screen names feel free to post here or PM me so I can update this thread:
Rank 1:
Steve Sisk - Space Marines primary; Imperial Knight allies
Amy picture:
Spoiler:
List:
Spoiler:
HQ:
Kor’sarro Khan [125]
+ Moondrakkan [25]
= 150
• Command Squad [100]
+ Company Standard [15]
+ 3× storm shield [30]
+ power fist [25]
+ Space Marine bikes [35]
+ Apothecary [15]
= 220
Chapter Master [130]
+ Space Marine bike [20]
+ The Shield Eternal [50]
+ digital weapons [10]
+ artificer armour [20]
+ thunder hammer [30]
= 260
Elites:
-10x Sternguards - 5x Combi-meltas, Drop Pod
-10x Sternguards - 5x Combi-meltas, Drop Pod
Troops:
10x Tacticals - Mix of weapons, Drop Pod
10x Tacticals - Mix of weapons, Drop Pod
10x Tacticals - Mix of weapons, Drop Pod
8x Tacticals - Mix of Weapons, Drop Pod
5x Tacticals - Drop Pod
Total:
Rank 3:
Adam Gati (mortetvie) - Eldar (Iyanden) primary; Dark Eldar allies
Marneus Calgar (who I will just refer to as "The Man")
10x Sternguards - 5x Combi-meltas, Drop Pod
10x Sternguards - 5x Combi-meltas, Drop Pod
10x Tacticals - Mix of weapons, Drop Pod
10x Tacticals - Mix of weapons, Drop Pod
10x Tacticals - Mix of weapons, Drop Pod
8x Tacticals - Mix of Weapons, Drop Pod ("The Man" here)
5x Tacticals - Drop Pod
HQ 150 - Khan, Moondrakken
90 - Master of the Forge
190 - Command Squad, bikes, 4 meltaguns, apothecary
TROOPS
190 - Bikes, 5 and 1 multi-melta attack bike, 2 grav guns
190 - Bikes, 5 and 1 multi-melta attack bike, 2 grav guns
190 - Bikes, 5 and 1 multi-melta attack bike, 2 grav guns
190 - Bikes, 5 and 1 multi-melta attack bike, 2 grav guns
HEAVY SUPPORT
100 - Thunderfire Cannon
ALLIES
HQ 80 - Lord Commissar, power axe
25 - Priest
TROOPS
30 - Platoon Command Squad
75 - Infantry Sqd, power axe, meltabombs, flamer
75 - Infantry Sqd, power axe, meltabombs, flamer
70 - Infantry Sqd, power axe, meltabombs
70 - Infantry Sqd, power axe, meltabombs
70 - Infantry Sqd, power axe, meltabombs
HEAVY SUPPORT
65 - Wyvern
Also, on a side note, I did make it on to Team0Comp in a challenge match and am now the newest member of the team!
Nice list. Do you feel in hindsight a different load out on a few of the bike squads might have been a good idea?
Congrats on making it onto team zero comp!
Thanks man!
The bike loadouts were pretty solid. The biggest changes I think on the list in hindsight would maybe make the Master of the Forge just a techmarine and add grav combis to the bike sgts. But having the two wound Master to tank AP3 wounds was very nice. He saved my blob from being totally eaten by a blender fist death company dreadnought.
I normally have IG primary, and am slowly building a bike army but will likely explore Guard more in 7th. I really love the push to allow FW as sabers and the FW Manticore are some of my favorite units in the game
I was worried the Wyvern wouldn't fit in and just die a lot. But it worked very well with the thunderfire and the excellent terrain at the event kept it mostly safe. Plus people seemed really intent on trying to kill it. A couple of opponents put themselves in bad spots trying to get it, and at 65pts it wasn't a huge deal of I lost it..
I'd love to see your bat reps and analysis, jy2. Skyblight I thought was supposed to be weaker in 7th, and I'm not a huge fan of it, but this version is something I could actually run. So, I'll be keeping an eye out for that... wondering what the bastion is doing with a mostly airborne list (moving the flyers nearby on their way in to boost their save?).
Extends the range of the venomthropes cover bubble. Also, the comms relay makes sure the mawloc comes in and can help keep the rippers off. Plus it guarantees LOS blocking terrain to hide behind turn 1.
RiTides wrote: I'd love to see your bat reps and analysis, jy2. Skyblight I thought was supposed to be weaker in 7th, and I'm not a huge fan of it, but this version is something I could actually run. So, I'll be keeping an eye out for that... wondering what the bastion is doing with a mostly airborne list (moving the flyers nearby on their way in to boost their save?).
Skyblight is weaker nowadays than it was in 6th. It's main advantage back then was that it was the only army build with ObSec. Well, nowadays, everyone else has it, which really neuters its main advantage. Oh yeah, and its FMC's got nerfed as well.
However, my reason for taking Skyblight isn't because I wanted to win at all costs. It isn't even because I think it is the best Tyranid build. Rather, it was because of all the work, money and effort that was put into it. I started off building this army in 6th, and I'll be damned if I didn't run it at least once in a competitive event. This was truly an army where I had to use all of my skills in order to make it work, but that's ok. I enjoyed the challenge.
Bastion is a force-multiplier and I use it in all of my Tyranid armies. Yes, that immobile piece of building helps to make my army that much better. The advantages of the bastion:
1. LOS-blocker in the case of a terrain-lite table.
2. Comms relay to manipulate reserves. This gives me added flexibility in how I want to play with my reserves.
3. Venom-in-a-box strategy. Helps to extend his Shrouding range. Also protects him from enemy alpha-strikes.
RiTides wrote: I'd love to see your bat reps and analysis, jy2. Skyblight I thought was supposed to be weaker in 7th, and I'm not a huge fan of it, but this version is something I could actually run. So, I'll be keeping an eye out for that... wondering what the bastion is doing with a mostly airborne list (moving the flyers nearby on their way in to boost their save?).
Skyblight is weaker nowadays than it was in 6th. It's main advantage back then was that it was the only army build with ObSec. Well, nowadays, everyone else has it, which really neuters its main advantage. Oh yeah, and its FMC's got nerfed as well.
However, my reason for taking Skyblight isn't because I wanted to win at all costs. It isn't even because I think it is the best Tyranid build. Rather, it was because of all the work, money and effort that was put into it. I started off building this army in 6th, and I'll be damned if I didn't run it at least once in a competitive event. This was truly an army where I had to use all of my skills in order to make it work, but that's ok. I enjoyed the challenge.
Bastion is a force-multiplier and I use it in all of my Tyranid armies. Yes, that immobile piece of building helps to make my army that much better. The advantages of the bastion:
1. LOS-blocker in the case of a terrain-lite table.
2. Comms relay to manipulate reserves. This gives me added flexibility in how I want to play with my reserves.
3. Venom-in-a-box strategy. Helps to extend his Shrouding range. Also protects him from enemy alpha-strikes.
4. Can actually claim a "home" objective.
All of this is pretty much true. The Bastions are invaluable for protecting Tyranids from an Alpha-strike. The other reason I'll add to the above is
5. Barricades, these provide a guaranteed 4++ cover for units behind them, which will also always be within 6" of the Bastion for shrouded.
I don't think that Skyblight is the best way to play Tyranids anymore because I don't think FMC saturation is great when the Harpies are so ineffective. I'd rather just buy the Flyrant, Crone and Gargoyles and have 270 points left from no Harpies. Actually the best reason, I think, to take a Skyblight is just to get the third Flyrant in there.
HQ 150 - Khan, Moondrakken
90 - Master of the Forge
190 - Command Squad, bikes, 4 meltaguns, apothecary
TROOPS
190 - Bikes, 5 and 1 multi-melta attack bike, 2 grav guns
190 - Bikes, 5 and 1 multi-melta attack bike, 2 grav guns
190 - Bikes, 5 and 1 multi-melta attack bike, 2 grav guns
190 - Bikes, 5 and 1 multi-melta attack bike, 2 grav guns
HEAVY SUPPORT
100 - Thunderfire Cannon
ALLIES
HQ 80 - Lord Commissar, power axe
25 - Priest
TROOPS
30 - Platoon Command Squad
75 - Infantry Sqd, power axe, meltabombs, flamer
75 - Infantry Sqd, power axe, meltabombs, flamer
70 - Infantry Sqd, power axe, meltabombs
70 - Infantry Sqd, power axe, meltabombs
70 - Infantry Sqd, power axe, meltabombs
HEAVY SUPPORT
65 - Wyvern
Also, on a side note, I did make it on to Team0Comp in a challenge match and am now the newest member of the team!
Nice list. Do you feel in hindsight a different load out on a few of the bike squads might have been a good idea?
Congrats on making it onto team zero comp!
Thanks man!
The bike loadouts were pretty solid. The biggest changes I think on the list in hindsight would maybe make the Master of the Forge just a techmarine and add grav combis to the bike sgts. But having the two wound Master to tank AP3 wounds was very nice. He saved my blob from being totally eaten by a blender fist death company dreadnought.
I normally have IG primary, and am slowly building a bike army but will likely explore Guard more in 7th. I really love the push to allow FW as sabers and the FW Manticore are some of my favorite units in the game
I was worried the Wyvern wouldn't fit in and just die a lot. But it worked very well with the thunderfire and the excellent terrain at the event kept it mostly safe. Plus people seemed really intent on trying to kill it. A couple of opponents put themselves in bad spots trying to get it, and at 65pts it wasn't a huge deal of I lost it..
Thanks for creating this thread! I'm really digging Adam's Tau list. I've never though using Marker Drones gun squad. I'm guessing Shadowsun attaches to them to increase their survivability.
I actually prefer a buffmander in a crisis suit unit with 6-8x marker drones where the suits have target locks so drones get twin-linked bs5 and the suits get twin-linked tank/monster hunter with ignores cover shots .
SabrX wrote: Thanks for creating this thread! I'm really digging Adam's Tau list. I've never though using Marker Drones gun squad. I'm guessing Shadowsun attaches to them to increase their survivability.
Actually, he plays her more aggressively than that. This is from my own experience playing against him and both times, he went first. So what he does is to attach Shadowsun to the broadsides and then infiltrate them (you can do that using BAOFAQ's). Then it's a guaranteed First Blood, not to mention he can alpha-strike the crap out of deathstars before they get a chance to power up at all! That is his answer to the seer council, beaststar, centurionstar, draigowing, FMC-spam, whatever. As long as he is going 1st, your unit is going to eat all those missile/SMS shots.
It gets much worse if he gets the Master of Ambush Warlord trait, as he is then infiltrating Shadowsun + broadsides, Commander (his warlord) + markerdrones, 2nd broadsides and 2 riptides. That was essentially how he was able to table Blackmoor's Draigowing by Turn 2. It's really nasty, and if you reserve, he's got Interceptor on all of his units!
SabrX wrote: Thanks for creating this thread! I'm really digging Adam's Tau list. I've never though using Marker Drones gun squad. I'm guessing Shadowsun attaches to them to increase their survivability.
Actually, he plays her more aggressively than that. This is from my own experience playing against him and both times, he went first. So what he does is to attach Shadowsun to the broadsides and then infiltrate them (you can do that using BAOFAQ's). Then it's a guaranteed First Blood, not to mention he can alpha-strike the crap out of deathstars before they get a chance to power up at all! That is his answer to the seer council, beaststar, centurionstar, draigowing, FMC-spam, whatever. As long as he is going 1st, your unit is going to eat all those missile/SMS shots.
It gets much worse if he gets the Master of Ambush Warlord trait, as he is then infiltrating Shadowsun + broadsides, Commander (his warlord) + markerdrones, 2nd broadsides and 2 riptides. That was essentially how he was able to table Blackmoor's Draigowing by Turn 2. It's really nasty, and if you reserve, he's got Interceptor on all of his units!
Adams list is brutal, no doubt, but a Plasma Farsight bomb and 27 sniper drones in Storm of Fire range would eat through both Riptides and a Unit of broadsides per turn. (I did mathammer it)
RiTides wrote: I'd love to see your bat reps and analysis, jy2. Skyblight I thought was supposed to be weaker in 7th, and I'm not a huge fan of it, but this version is something I could actually run. So, I'll be keeping an eye out for that... wondering what the bastion is doing with a mostly airborne list (moving the flyers nearby on their way in to boost their save?).
Skyblight is weaker nowadays than it was in 6th. It's main advantage back then was that it was the only army build with ObSec. Well, nowadays, everyone else has it, which really neuters its main advantage. Oh yeah, and its FMC's got nerfed as well.
However, my reason for taking Skyblight isn't because I wanted to win at all costs. It isn't even because I think it is the best Tyranid build. Rather, it was because of all the work, money and effort that was put into it. I started off building this army in 6th, and I'll be damned if I didn't run it at least once in a competitive event. This was truly an army where I had to use all of my skills in order to make it work, but that's ok. I enjoyed the challenge.
Bastion is a force-multiplier and I use it in all of my Tyranid armies. Yes, that immobile piece of building helps to make my army that much better. The advantages of the bastion:
1. LOS-blocker in the case of a terrain-lite table.
2. Comms relay to manipulate reserves. This gives me added flexibility in how I want to play with my reserves.
3. Venom-in-a-box strategy. Helps to extend his Shrouding range. Also protects him from enemy alpha-strikes.
4. Can actually claim a "home" objective.
All of this is pretty much true. The Bastions are invaluable for protecting Tyranids from an Alpha-strike. The other reason I'll add to the above is
5. Barricades, these provide a guaranteed 4++ cover for units behind them, which will also always be within 6" of the Bastion for shrouded.
I don't think that Skyblight is the best way to play Tyranids anymore because I don't think FMC saturation is great when the Harpies are so ineffective. I'd rather just buy the Flyrant, Crone and Gargoyles and have 270 points left from no Harpies. Actually the best reason, I think, to take a Skyblight is just to get the third Flyrant in there.
Thanks for these thoughts, guys! Do you still see yourself taking one even with the Malanthrope being updated?
I keep seeing lists with only deepstriking rippers as troops. It seems like this leaves you light on objective secured units... and I did just paint up 150 gaunts . Oh well
I do like the Bastion and have the parts to convert up a gribbly one, so I'm glad to hear it's still worthwhile. With lists like the BAO allowing self-allying, it seems like you can get the third Flyrant in that way. I'd love to see some 3 Flyrant builds using self-allying rather than Skyblight.
mortetvie wrote: I actually prefer a buffmander in a crisis suit unit with 6-8x marker drones where the suits have target locks so drones get twin-linked bs5 and the suits get twin-linked tank/monster hunter with ignores cover shots .
I agree and I know we've discussed this kind of loadout in detail. Its super flexible and provides a massive amount of support against a single unit, lights them up like a Christmas Tree.
jy2, that is definitely a BAOFAQ rule change and one I"m glad NOVA is sticking to the RAW on. I still don't understand why you West Coast guys need to change that rule, lol! Its been multiple editions already.
But Master of Ambush is IMO the single most powerful Warlord Trait for most games. Infiltrating Warlord +3 Units is extremely powerful, unfortunately in every game I've attempted to roll it I have failed!
Zagman wrote: jy2, that is definitely a BAOFAQ rule change and one I"m glad NOVA is sticking to the RAW on. I still don't understand why you West Coast guys need to change that rule, lol! Its been multiple editions already.
SabrX wrote: Thanks for creating this thread! I'm really digging Adam's Tau list. I've never though using Marker Drones gun squad. I'm guessing Shadowsun attaches to them to increase their survivability.
Actually, he plays her more aggressively than that. This is from my own experience playing against him and both times, he went first. So what he does is to attach Shadowsun to the broadsides and then infiltrate them (you can do that using BAOFAQ's). Then it's a guaranteed First Blood, not to mention he can alpha-strike the crap out of deathstars before they get a chance to power up at all! That is his answer to the seer council, beaststar, centurionstar, draigowing, FMC-spam, whatever. As long as he is going 1st, your unit is going to eat all those missile/SMS shots.
Yes, that is correct. BAOFAQ allows a character with Infiltrate to confer it onto the unit he is with (and vice versa). Apparently, the Nova FAQ doesn't. I believe this is because the BAO used a lot of the slightly older 6E FAQ's because there just really wasn't a lot of time for them to further develop their FAQ's. If you compare the new FAQ's to the previous 6E FAQ's, GW took out a lot of the Q&A's that helped to clarify a lot of the ambiguities in the rules. Well, since they took them out, it's been the wild west once again. As a stop-gap measure, I believe the BAO was using some of those FAQ's to "fill in the blanks" with regards to the newer FAQ. And then there were some rules changes probably for reasons of practicality in tournament play.
It may all change in the future. I don't believe the BAOFAQ's are set in stone.
Zagman wrote: jy2, that is definitely a BAOFAQ rule change and one I"m glad NOVA is sticking to the RAW on. I still don't understand why you West Coast guys need to change that rule, lol! Its been multiple editions already.
SabrX wrote: Thanks for creating this thread! I'm really digging Adam's Tau list. I've never though using Marker Drones gun squad. I'm guessing Shadowsun attaches to them to increase their survivability.
Actually, he plays her more aggressively than that. This is from my own experience playing against him and both times, he went first. So what he does is to attach Shadowsun to the broadsides and then infiltrate them (you can do that using BAOFAQ's). Then it's a guaranteed First Blood, not to mention he can alpha-strike the crap out of deathstars before they get a chance to power up at all! That is his answer to the seer council, beaststar, centurionstar, draigowing, FMC-spam, whatever. As long as he is going 1st, your unit is going to eat all those missile/SMS shots.
BAO has for 7th, and unless I am mistake for 6th as well ruled that you can use an IC to Infiltrate a unit that does not have the Infiltrate special rule despite it being absolutely impossible RAW in both 6th and 7th. NOVA has ruled you cannot do this which is consistent with the raw of Infiltrate and how ICs attach to units.
jy2 wrote:@RiTides
Yes, that is correct. BAOFAQ allows a character with Infiltrate to confer it onto the unit he is with (and vice versa). Apparently, the Nova FAQ doesn't. I believe this is because the BAO used a lot of the slightly older 6E FAQ's because there just really wasn't a lot of time for them to further develop their FAQ's. If you compare the new FAQ's to the previous 6E FAQ's, GW took out a lot of the Q&A's that helped to clarify a lot of the ambiguities in the rules. Well, since they took them out, it's been the wild west once again. As a stop-gap measure, I believe the BAO was using some of those FAQ's to "fill in the blanks" with regards to the newer FAQ. And then there were some rules changes probably for reasons of practicality in tournament play.
It may all change in the future. I don't believe the BAOFAQ's are set in stone.
Stop gap or no, it is still a direct rule change that is IMO completely unnecessary. The BRB is explicitley clear on how ICs attach to units and how Infiltrate works and ICs cannot grant Infiltrate to a unit RAW as they are deployed and join said unit after the unit is already deployed. I believe the same was ruled in 6th as well at BAO, unless I'm mistaken which is entirely possible.
Adams list is brutal, no doubt, but a Plasma Farsight bomb and 27 sniper drones in Storm of Fire range would eat through both Riptides and a Unit of broadsides per turn. (I did mathammer it)
I think we're going to see some cool sniper drone action in 7th. Combined with SoF, you can do some serious damage to some of the big baddies out there. I'm curious to see how this list would stack up against such a scenario.
I like Sniper Drones if for no other reason than good source of Marker Drones and they can do some crazy good damage to MCs with an Ethereal buff and Buffmander in the unit.
jy2 wrote: Actually, he plays her more aggressively than that. This is from my own experience playing against him and both times, he went first. So what he does is to attach Shadowsun to the broadsides and then infiltrate them (you can do that using BAOFAQ's). Then it's a guaranteed First Blood, not to mention he can alpha-strike the crap out of deathstars before they get a chance to power up at all! That is his answer to the seer council, beaststar, centurionstar, draigowing, FMC-spam, whatever. As long as he is going 1st, your unit is going to eat all those missile/SMS shots.
It gets much worse if he gets the Master of Ambush Warlord trait, as he is then infiltrating Shadowsun + broadsides, Commander (his warlord) + markerdrones, 2nd broadsides and 2 riptides. That was essentially how he was able to table Blackmoor's Draigowing by Turn 2. It's really nasty, and if you reserve, he's got Interceptor on all of his units!
This is the kind of needless rules change that really kills the competitive aspect of 40k for me. A list like this wins against certain armies before they have even deployed. The rules are pretty black and white on IC with infiltrate and allowing them to join units and confer it allows for so much abuse. Curious why I didn't see an eldar player abusing Illic in this manner.
Goldphish wrote: This is the kind of needless rules change that really kills the competitive aspect of 40k for me. A list like this wins against certain armies before they have even deployed. The rules are pretty black and white on IC with infiltrate and allowing them to join units and confer it allows for so much abuse. Curious why I didn't see an eldar player abusing Illic in this manner.
it's not black and white. If it was, the ruling wouldn't be necessary.
Besides, this strategy requires you to go first and not get seized on. So building an entire army for this purpose is risky over a 5-6 game tournament.
The BAO ruling makes infiltrate more reliable and useful and opens the door to other tactics. Regardless, there are still drawbacks to the decision to infiltrate so meh. It wasn't really an issue in my games.
jy2 wrote: Actually, he plays her more aggressively than that. This is from my own experience playing against him and both times, he went first. So what he does is to attach Shadowsun to the broadsides and then infiltrate them (you can do that using BAOFAQ's). Then it's a guaranteed First Blood, not to mention he can alpha-strike the crap out of deathstars before they get a chance to power up at all! That is his answer to the seer council, beaststar, centurionstar, draigowing, FMC-spam, whatever. As long as he is going 1st, your unit is going to eat all those missile/SMS shots.
It gets much worse if he gets the Master of Ambush Warlord trait, as he is then infiltrating Shadowsun + broadsides, Commander (his warlord) + markerdrones, 2nd broadsides and 2 riptides. That was essentially how he was able to table Blackmoor's Draigowing by Turn 2. It's really nasty, and if you reserve, he's got Interceptor on all of his units!
This is the kind of needless rules change that really kills the competitive aspect of 40k for me. A list like this wins against certain armies before they have even deployed. The rules are pretty black and white on IC with infiltrate and allowing them to join units and confer it allows for so much abuse. Curious why I didn't see an eldar player abusing Illic in this manner.
To me, it doesn't really matter. As long as the tournament posts the "houserule" in advance so that people know about it. I mean, there's already 100's of broken combos in the game already. What is one more combo? Besides, this edition is the edition of houserules anyways, at least in competitive play.
BTW, you are risking a 400+ pt unit by infiltrating it. In many cases, while you may potentially gain First Blood, you stand to lose more than you stand to gain.
Illic with 10 Scythe Guard, 5 spiritseers, and Baron Sathonyx! Over 1000 points of awesome!
Or for the Cheaper option
Illic with 20 guardians + 2 Shuriken Cannons for 360 Points
44 pseudo rending shots + a bonus super special sniper shot into the unit of your choice on turn 1!!!
I am glad we aren't devolving the conversation into school yard **** measuring.... Oh wait...
Point is, it is an unnecessary rule change. There is no ambiguity with the RAW interaction, Reece just hates it, he's said it repeatedly in his own videos/podcasts. It's his event so he can change what he wants, but it most certainly is an arbitrary change.
"There are 100's of broken combos, whats one more?" simple, it's 100's +1 broken combos, why play if the current state is so hopeless a few more idiotic changes can't make it worse. It's just one more thing people need to look out for piled on top of an already bloated pile. The aim should be reduction not growth of bloat.
I'd ask Blackmoore how he felt about that gem of a change. I can't speak for him but doubt he was ready for it preparing for those 100's of other crap interactions.
Infiltrating a unit isn't anymore broken than giving it Tank Hunter or Ignore Cover (via markerlights).
And in Blackmoor's case, it isn't so much infiltrating Shadowsun with broadsides as it was Master of Ambush allowing 3 riptides to infiltrate with S8/9 AP2 large blasts and Tau going 1st.
Well hopefully there won't be too many more arbitrary rules changes this year. We all know ahead of time and can plan accordingly but it can still be annoying.
I think when GW updates their FAQ's, everything will be better. But the initial GW 7E FAQ's took out a lot of the clarifications from their 6E FAQ's, thus throwing some of the armies/rules back into chaos once again.
Also, as TO's have more time to hash out the FAQ's, they may come to a more universal FAQ. Problem with the BAOFAQ's was that there probably just wasn't enough time for this, which is why you see minor variations in FAQ's in the initial stages of 7E tournaments.
Khan was in almost all the top SM lists. That and Chapter Master Smash too (Chapter Master with Shield Eternal, TH, bike, & Artificer armor). Always thought he was too expensive for tournament play clocking in at land raider cost, for those of you that used him how did he preform?
I wasn't there but as someone who has fielded a WSCM kitted out they are well worth their points and can easily win you otherwise poor matchups.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jy2 wrote: Infiltrating a unit isn't anymore broken than giving it Tank Hunter or Ignore Cover (via markerlights).
So again your argument revolves around the game already having bloated and horrible rule interactions so why not add another. Not to mention you ignore the fact that said busted rules, in your opinion, are perfectly legal and outlined as such in the rules unlike the terrible change in the BAOFAQ. It was and still is a very unneeded change.
To me, it really doesn't matter one way or another as long as the tournament posts their house rule. There are just so many combos out there nowadays that the infiltrating issue is almost a non-issue to me personally. Heck, in all 4 of my games against marines, I was facing alpha-strike lists that went first against me - 2 drop pod armies, scouting White Scars and a devastating centurion star with Gate of Infinity. It is something you just need to take into account when building/playing your army.
If you don't like the rule, fine. Voice your complaint to the TO beforehand. Or just don't go. Problem solved. However, if you do decide to go, then you better be willing to play under their house rule. As for me, I could care less. I knew the rules going into the event and frankly, it isn't really that big a deal to me because it is a rules change that is easily adaptable.
Spartan089 wrote: Khan was in almost all the top SM lists. That and Chapter Master Smash too (Chapter Master with Shield Eternal, TH, bike, & Artificer armor). Always thought he was too expensive for tournament play clocking in at land raider cost, for those of you that used him how did he preform?
He has always been good. Immune to Small Arms fire and resilent against most things, you can kill ANYTHING he touchs. He blew up a fellblade and killed War Walkers and at one point threw a grenade, hit and penetrated a Dakkajet the immobilised and crash landed on the guys own army, he soaks up so much fire(If he is in a Command Squad, FNP)
In WS, his major weakness(Fearless infantry that can bog him) is negated by the Hit & Run
Hey Adam Merlic here just want to make a correction on my list, for the BAO I used:
Hq Commander
o Drone Controller, Sim Injector, Shield Gen, Neuroweb System Jammer, Command and control Node, Iridium armor.
Shadowsun
Troops
- Fire warrior team
o 6 men
o Devilfish
SMS, Disruption pods
- Fire warrior team
o 6 men
o Devilfish
SMS, Disruption pods
Fast
- Marker Drones
o 9 Drones
Elite
- Riptide
o Ion Accelerator, Meltas, Early Warning, Stim Injector
- Riptide
o Ion Accelerator, Meltas, Early Warning, Stim Injector
Formation
- Fireblade Support Cadre
o Riptide
Ion Accelerator, Meltas, Early Warning, Stim Injector
o Bsides
2. 3 man squads
• SMS, high yield , Early Warning
@mortetvie Gratz on 3rd place! Do you plan to do some battlereports from this tournament or describing your insight for running your list? I would gladly read sth like this from really great DEldar player.
SpamAdams wrote: Hey Adam Merlic here just want to make a correction on my list, for the BAO I used:
Spoiler:
Hq Commander
o Drone Controller, Sim Injector, Shield Gen, Neuroweb System Jammer, Command and control Node, Iridium armor.
Shadowsun
Troops
- Fire warrior team
o 6 men
o Devilfish
SMS, Disruption pods
- Fire warrior team
o 6 men
o Devilfish
SMS, Disruption pods
Fast
- Marker Drones
o 9 Drones
Elite
- Riptide
o Ion Accelerator, Meltas, Early Warning, Stim Injector
- Riptide
o Ion Accelerator, Meltas, Early Warning, Stim Injector
Formation
- Fireblade Support Cadre
o Riptide
Ion Accelerator, Meltas, Early Warning, Stim Injector
o Bsides
2. 3 man squads
• SMS, high yield , Early Warning
haha well you better change your list just wondering where did you place at the BAO? lets get a game in soon
I really did like you list. I have been doing a collaboration with some other Tau players here on Dakka to change up my list. I am going to be running something similar to Zagman's Tau. Good to see you on the forums too I placed 49 going 3-3. It could have been 4-2 but I failed a 4 inch charge that would have gotten me game (highly likely). We should totally get a game in! Again congrats you your performance on the BAO, well done!
sqeeswy wrote: @mortetvie Gratz on 3rd place! Do you plan to do some battlereports from this tournament or describing your insight for running your list? I would gladly read sth like this from really great DEldar player.
I hope to get some battle reports done in the near future, keep your eyes on my blog for an update!
jy2 wrote: To me, it really doesn't matter one way or another as long as the tournament posts their house rule. There are just so many combos out there nowadays that the infiltrating issue is almost a non-issue to me personally. Heck, in all 4 of my games against marines, I was facing alpha-strike lists that went first against me - 2 drop pod armies, scouting White Scars and a devastating centurion star with Gate of Infinity. It is something you just need to take into account when building/playing your army.
If you don't like the rule, fine. Voice your complaint to the TO beforehand. Or just don't go. Problem solved. However, if you do decide to go, then you better be willing to play under their house rule. As for me, I could care less. I knew the rules going into the event and frankly, it isn't really that big a deal to me because it is a rules change that is easily adaptable.
There is a difference between you being OK with an unnecessary change and the overall principle. I respect your opinion on the matter, but for me I am looking at it from a community perspective. Adding more bloat further shrinks an already dwindling 40k community. I can't understand why, if a rule is no big deal to a die hard player like yourself, it needs to be added at the risk of turning other, less niche rules seasoned players, away from the event. Do you see my point now?
The game needs to shed weight, not put more on.
Your examples also have nothing to do with the topic btw. Are you trying to equate drop pod armies to adding invented rules?
You don't need to convince me. I think your concerns need to be addressed to the TO's themselves. But I guess it is alright to air it out in public in their thread. This way, they will most likely read it. Oh wait....this isn't Reece's thread.
I understand that there is a lot of pressure for TO's, especially since their tournament is the first major one to come out under the new 7th Ed. I am sure they were pushed in all directions, from their customer-base to pundits on the Internet to the opinions of the other TO's that they are discussing with. In any case, whereas I may not agree with all of their decisions, I nonetheless respect them and the time they take to formulate them as well as to put on the event. The rules/FAQ's for each tournament - especially the initial ones after a new edition change - won't be perfect, but I am sure that they will improve over time. Just give them the benefit of the doubt and politely tell them why you think something should or shouldn't be.
Lets keep this discussion to the army lists that made it to the top 10 and keep other discussion to another thread or PMs please. I know there is a lot to be discussed but what you guys are getting into now isn't appropriate for this particular thread, thanks! =)
Freyzor wrote: I super interested to hear more about Carlos Kaisers Ultramarine list.
Given all the crazy gimmicks going on this list seems almost unreal for 2nd place. I'd love to hear about how it was being run to make it work.
So if you have stories please do tell
This last weekend's RTT I faced his BAO list, but at 1750. I think he prolly shorted it by 5 SM. We were 2 outta 3 players for TopSpot (4?). I lost to Carlos, but held him back in points (I was trying to play as hard too!). The other TopTable's guy, MikeFox, was able to garner more points for the RTT win. Carlos took Top Imperial Army and I nabbed Top Xeno army (eldar).
Anyway, Carlos has (memory already fuzzy) 7 or 8 Drop Pods. x2 Sternguard melta-spam for the First Blood near-gaurantee. There are two assault squads of Drop Pods, too. The rest is various melta/LasCan/MM tacitcals. Some Tacs are 5 guys, a couple others are the full 10, which he generally Combat Squads.
Plus Marnie-TwoFist-Calgar in his lighter, summer clothes (not T-Armor). He's a h2h bad-ass and a super great Army-Buffer. I let him alone, I assure you. Killed everything around him, but let him alone.
You can guess the goofery from there. 4 melta -heavy DP crews wreck your transports Turn 1. The other DPs land on objectives with ObjSec and Line Breaker.
And while you'd think little units of 5 SM ought to be easily wiped out, it's kinda tough when you've already been sucker punched out of 1/3 to half your fire power.
Against ImpKnights, he simply corralled the ImpKnights. Go to FaceBook, Game Empire Pasadena. There is a pic of that little trick (scroll through until you hit the Aug 40k tournament). I dunno quite how that defeated the ImpKnight army, but apparently the Imps were unable to go any aware for the Crusade Mission.
Bahkara wrote: Calgar dropped 3 out of 4 knights(2 in one turn thanks to catastrophic explosion), thats how he won
A big boy, Marnie is.
Bahkara wrote: His army is all melta, multi melta and combimelta. Calgar, 2-10man sternguard and the rest tac squads. All in drop pods
All MMs? Maybe he proxied a LasCan for an MM. And he was insistent that there were two Assault Squads, as Round 3 had killing all Fast Attack worth a bonus point. Which amused me to no end, as Carlos couldn't finish the WarpSpiders (maybe 4 or 5 left) and a lone Swooping Hawk.
Bahkara wrote: Calgar dropped 3 out of 4 knights(2 in one turn thanks to catastrophic explosion), thats how he won
A big boy, Marnie is.
Bahkara wrote: His army is all melta, multi melta and combimelta. Calgar, 2-10man sternguard and the rest tac squads. All in drop pods
All MMs? Maybe he proxied a LasCan for an MM. And he was insistent that there were two Assault Squads, as Round 3 had killing all Fast Attack worth a bonus point. Which amused me to no end, as Carlos couldn't finish the WarpSpiders (maybe 4 or 5 left) and a lone Swooping Hawk.
Did he really try to play off one of his Tac squads as an assault squad?
Bahkara wrote: Calgar dropped 3 out of 4 knights(2 in one turn thanks to catastrophic explosion), thats how he won
A big boy, Marnie is.
Bahkara wrote: His army is all melta, multi melta and combimelta. Calgar, 2-10man sternguard and the rest tac squads. All in drop pods
All MMs? Maybe he proxied a LasCan for an MM. And he was insistent that there were two Assault Squads, as Round 3 had killing all Fast Attack worth a bonus point. Which amused me to no end, as Carlos couldn't finish the WarpSpiders (maybe 4 or 5 left) and a lone Swooping Hawk.
Did he really try to play off one of his Tac squads as an assault squad?
This was at our local RTT not the BAO. Our local scene is ok with things like this when you're testing something new as long as you are upfront about it and consistent.
It's a very competitive scene but because we all know each other and have an awesome TO we are more laid back about some things.
Spartan089 wrote: Did he really try to play off one of his Tac squads as an assault squad?
What context is your question, Spartan? :
a. That Carlos did this at the BAO (as OverWatchCNC has replied) shenanigan
b. that he was pulling shenanigans on me at our local RTT c. Maybe Bahkara's memory is worse than mine, and the drop from 1850 (BAO) to 1750 (GameEmpire's RTT) was some Tactical Points out for F.A.
As for 'b', having those SM being Assault Squads were only beneficial to me. They never got into assault, and were only a liability to him. One of *that* last mission's Bonus Points was to kill all Fast Attack. Doing so would have given a bonus point toward my overall tourney score.
No one truely plays by strict RAW that I have encountered, so that argument is pointless. If you do than a lot of things fall apart. Everyone house rules to an extent so as long as everyone is clear beforehand there should not be a problem.
Spartan089 wrote: Did he really try to play off one of his Tac squads as an assault squad?
What context is your question, Spartan? :
a. That Carlos did this at the BAO (as OverWatchCNC has replied) shenanigan
b. that he was pulling shenanigans on me at our local RTT c. Maybe Bahkara's memory is worse than mine, and the drop from 1850 (BAO) to 1750 (GameEmpire's RTT) was some Tactical Points out for F.A.
As for 'b', having those SM being Assault Squads were only beneficial to me. They never got into assault, and were only a liability to him. One of *that* last mission's Bonus Points was to kill all Fast Attack. Doing so would have given a bonus point toward my overall tourney score.
Better?
I thought it was at BAO, if in a friendly game that's a different story.
Edit: if the was still at a tournament and he had no assault marines in his list, then it's still kind of bad.
Bahkara wrote: Calgar dropped 3 out of 4 knights(2 in one turn thanks to catastrophic explosion), thats how he won
A big boy, Marnie is.
Bahkara wrote: His army is all melta, multi melta and combimelta. Calgar, 2-10man sternguard and the rest tac squads. All in drop pods
All MMs? Maybe he proxied a LasCan for an MM. And he was insistent that there were two Assault Squads, as Round 3 had killing all Fast Attack worth a bonus point. Which amused me to no end, as Carlos couldn't finish the WarpSpiders (maybe 4 or 5 left) and a lone Swooping Hawk.
Did he really try to play off one of his Tac squads as an assault squad?
I don't recall him mentioning assault squads but its a moot point. For 1750 he did replace 2 meltas with flamers. At the tourney if they didn't have a fast attack unit you got the bonus point.
Spartan089 wrote: Did he really try to play off one of his Tac squads as an assault squad?
What context is your question, Spartan? :
a. That Carlos did this at the BAO (as OverWatchCNC has replied) shenanigan
b. that he was pulling shenanigans on me at our local RTT c. Maybe Bahkara's memory is worse than mine, and the drop from 1850 (BAO) to 1750 (GameEmpire's RTT) was some Tactical Points out for F.A.
As for 'b', having those SM being Assault Squads were only beneficial to me. They never got into assault, and were only a liability to him. One of *that* last mission's Bonus Points was to kill all Fast Attack. Doing so would have given a bonus point toward my overall tourney score.
Better?
I thought it was at BAO, if in a friendly game that's a different story.
Edit: if the was still at a tournament and he had no assault marines in his list, then it's still kind of bad.
I think that drop pods (or any immobile vehicles really) having objective secured is a horrible oversight and far too powerful for an av 12, 3 hp, 35 point vehicle. It encourages 5 man tac squad spam to just sit on all the objectives the whole game and almost auto win on those points alone.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also ouch 39th place best showing for orks, right after a brand new codex. Marines won their first GT 2 weeks after the codex launched. Was hopeing they would put up a better showing, but I guess when only 4 people show up with em you cant expect much. Nobody wants to play the NPC army in a competitive environment.
Bloodhorror wrote: Does anyone have any idea what List Geoff Robinson took?
I Know he took Tyranids, but I'm interested to know what he took...
Can't seem to find it anywhere :(!
Here's a picture of Geoff's army. It involves the hierodule and a mycetic spore. BTW, the mycetic spore is a count-as Tyranid Void Shield Generator. Looks like he may be running the Living Artillery formation as well, though I don't know for sure.
Orock wrote: I think that drop pods (or any immobile vehicles really) having objective secured is a horrible oversight and far too powerful for an av 12, 3 hp, 35 point vehicle. It encourages 5 man tac squad spam to just sit on all the objectives the whole game and almost auto win on those points alone.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also ouch 39th place best showing for orks, right after a brand new codex. Marines won their first GT 2 weeks after the codex launched. Was hopeing they would put up a better showing, but I guess when only 4 people show up with em you cant expect much. Nobody wants to play the NPC army in a competitive environment.
This probably is due to the fact the marine book wasn't changed that much from the previous book(s) including Dark Angels. Marines are the most commonly played army, and least changed over time, plus figuring out that Grav Guns were good on infiltrating bikes with a CM on bike took negative time. People knew that was good before the codex came out officially. The Ork book is still being figured out, it was changed just enough in enough places from the previous codex that it made every ork player have to completely retool and reevaluate their lists and model collections. The same just wasn't true for Marine players.
Honestly I think 7th combined with the new mission system makes it so the top armies are in flux. Basically with the different missions types making it so that armies can build for different goals and still do well, or a army that is nearly tabled can actually be the winner by a significant margin. A lot of these things will bring a lot of variety to the table
The BAO is going to promote different builds than the Nova Open. There will be similarities sure, but I dont think that it will be the copy paste of past editions and I expect to see more variety than 5th and 6th, at least for awhile.
This was truly an army where I had to use all of my skills in order to make it work, but that's ok. I enjoyed the challenge.
.
So what he does is to attach Shadowsun to the broadsides and then infiltrate them (you can do that using 
. Oh well 
too (Chapter Master with Shield Eternal, 
