So, a local Ork player on the forums, doktor_g, has put forth a challenge:
Build a tourney-legal, pure ork list at 1850pts. Play it in a competitive meta. Win 2/3 times and show me the proof. I'll give you one of my Stompas... painted / magnetized. Signed sealed delivered to your home... for free. The original thread (with pic) is here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/616618.page
And I am here to take on that challenge!
A bit of background. I love Orks, they are my favorite army, and I won my first GT with them. I do not agree that Orks suck, in fact, I think they are quite good (although MUCH different from how they used to play.) As such, I intend to take them to the renegade GT Open.
I won the Renegade last year with my necron wraithwing list, and I'd like to repeat - but proving Orks are great is a nice icing on the cake!
Here's how the Renegade GT works: It's a 2 day GT. The first day is 3 games for everyone, and one extra game for the finalists to determine who the top 8 are. On Sunday, the finalists face off in single elimination, and those who didn't play in the top 8 play in their own RTT with all of the scores reset.
So, theoretically, to win again, I would need to win 7 games in a row. Can I do it? I dunno, but it's fun to guess!
After all games are done (which will be recorded on Torrent of Fire) I will make short (but detailed) battle reports about the games.
Here's my list:
* "Green Tide Formation" 94x Boyz
6x Nobz with Klaws
+ Fast Attack + * Deffkopta
Choppa, Twin-linked Rokkits
* Deffkopta
Choppa, Twin-linked Rokkits
+ Heavy Support + * Big Trakks
* Big Trakk
2x Big Shoota, Boarding Plank
* Big Trakk
2x Big Shoota, Boarding Plank
* Big Trakk
2x Big Shoota, Boarding Plank
* Mek Gunz
5x Ammo Runt
* 5x Kustom Mega-kannon w/ Grots
So whatcha think? Can the Orks handle the wave serpents, knights, and cent devvie stars that I will inevitably face?!
Wow, thats a lot of Boyz. Although I'm surprised you put them in such small, fragile mobs of 10 rather than going for the full hordes of 20.
I think Tau will probably give you a lot of trouble, as well as dedicated Imperial Knight armies. I don't know anything about Big Traks, but I hope you they have skyfire-- otherwise, Flyrants, Night Scythes, etc, are going to be a real pain for you. Other than that, I you've done the right thing by bringing more bodies than most armies have the firepower to deal with.
Just FYI, you might want to simplify your list to make it easier for the audience to read. Also, you should remove the points costs of the individual units and wargears (though you can leave the total points costs). It's against dakka rules, something about copyrights or something like that.
jy2 wrote: Just FYI, you might want to simplify your list to make it easier for the audience to read. Also, you should remove the points costs of the individual units and wargears (though you can leave the total points costs). It's against dakka rules, something about copyrights or something like that.
I'm not an expert in orks or anything, but with that many boyz, there really isn't much that you probably can't handle with the exception of the extreme armies and Tau. I once played against a Tau army that shot down 100+ of my boyz in about 3-4 turns as well as my nob bikers and allied Necron wraithstar.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW, that's much, much better. Won't get a headache reading it now.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW Part II, it's the general that wins the games and not necessarily the army. Why, just recently, we had someone win a GT with a Tyranid army with Deathleaper, 8 lictors and genestealers for troops!
BTW Part II, it's the general that wins the games and not necessarily the army. Why, just recently, we had someone win a GT with a Tyranid army with Deathleaper, 8 lictors and genestealers for troops!
That made me so happy See jy2, your Lictor list should go to a tournament!
As for the ork list, I am not familiar with the Big Trakks(FW I'm guessing?), but the list looks solid. You should hopefully be the proud owner of a new Stompa
The list looks like it has solutions to everything, although most of the krumpin's going into the Green Tide of Doom. I hope I get to face this list at Renegade, just because it looks fun to smack around with my Orks. Plus Green on Green action is always a good laugh.
AegisFate wrote: The list looks like it has solutions to everything, although most of the krumpin's going into the Green Tide of Doom. I hope I get to face this list at Renegade, just because it looks fun to smack around with my Orks. Plus Green on Green action is always a good laugh.
Goodness! I wonder if you guys will even get past Turn 3! That's a lot of dice/models to be rolling/moving.
Thankfully my list is a Blitz Brigade with occupants, so it'd be a lot of scooting and shooting whilst we're both trying to smack each other dead. Just looking at this list gives me more questions than answers though, as I'd have to focus all five of my wagon's contents on the Green Tide as a priority target.
Things that might improve your current list without much changes:
- Da Big Bosspole for a boss to get a fearless greentide. And PK is skippable at will for him. Remember, you got to accept challenges with your warboss if he's a warlord (and he needs to be a warlord to grant you WAAAGH! every turn after the 1-st) that's why he should ALWAYS be away from the front and it's not that difficult with so many boyz. So, why pay for a PK you'd use only in situations that are super-rare?
- Add in more barebones nobz for your greentide to die in challenges. Just 10 pts is worth it for a boy - nob upgrade.
- Get 'eavy armor for your mek. 4 pts is not much for a greentide but characters should get every bit of protection they can cause they're the key to your succsess.
- Painboss could get a bunch of grot orderlies. This wargear option is usually avoided but you DO want any chance to prolong FNP/DLS/Fearless and WAAAGH! for every extra turn you can get. It's quite likely you face some wyversn or tfc, so, it's not a bad idea to get this little backup in case you fail too many look outs.
- I'd not bother with 5 KMK cause of 36' range. You're running a freaking green tide! Who's gona get close enough for your gunz to fire? Probably only deepstrikers like crysis suits that'll spread out in the assault phase or a deathstar with invisibility that you won't be able to target properly.
You might consider a bunch of Lobbas cause they're alwayz nice and cheap or some AA guns. To make it a bit easier for you when you inevitably meet a Flyer/FMC spam.
I don't know the rules for the Renegade, but I'm surprised to not see Mad Dok Grotsnik in an army with the Green Tide. Best of luck. It will be interesting to see how you fare. I remembered reading the original thread a few months back.
koooaei wrote: Things that might improve your current list without much changes:
- Da Big Bosspole for a boss to get a fearless greentide. And PK is skippable at will for him. Remember, you got to accept challenges with your warboss if he's a warlord (and he needs to be a warlord to grant you WAAAGH! every turn after the 1-st) that's why he should ALWAYS be away from the front and it's not that difficult with so many boyz. So, why pay for a PK you'd use only in situations that are super-rare?
- Add in more barebones nobz for your greentide to die in challenges. Just 10 pts is worth it for a boy - nob upgrade.
- Get 'eavy armor for your mek. 4 pts is not much for a greentide but characters should get every bit of protection they can cause they're the key to your sucksess.
- Painboss could get a bunch of grot orderlies. This wargear option is usually avoided but you DO want any chance to prolong FNP/DLS/Fearless and WAAAGH! for every extra turn you can get. It's quite likely you face some wyversn or tfc, so, it's not a bad idea to get this little backup in case you fail too many look outs.
- I'd not bother with 5 KMK cause of 36' range. You're running a freaking green tide! Who's gona get close enough for your gunz to fire? Probably only deepstrikers like crysis suits that'll spread out in the assault phase or a deathstar with invisibility that you won't be able to target properly.
You might consider a bunch of Lobbas cause they're alwayz nice and cheap or some AA guns. To make it a bit easier for you when you inevitably meet a Flyer/FMC spam.
I agree that the Big Bosspole is critical... Will the Warboss not have to accept a challenge if he's at the back? I never knew that...
koooaei wrote: Things that might improve your current list without much changes:
- Da Big Bosspole for a boss to get a fearless greentide. And PK is skippable at will for him. Remember, you got to accept challenges with your warboss if he's a warlord (and he needs to be a warlord to grant you WAAAGH! every turn after the 1-st) that's why he should ALWAYS be away from the front and it's not that difficult with so many boyz. So, why pay for a PK you'd use only in situations that are super-rare?
- Add in more barebones nobz for your greentide to die in challenges. Just 10 pts is worth it for a boy - nob upgrade.
- Get 'eavy armor for your mek. 4 pts is not much for a greentide but characters should get every bit of protection they can cause they're the key to your sucksess.
- Painboss could get a bunch of grot orderlies. This wargear option is usually avoided but you DO want any chance to prolong FNP/DLS/Fearless and WAAAGH! for every extra turn you can get. It's quite likely you face some wyversn or tfc, so, it's not a bad idea to get this little backup in case you fail too many look outs.
- I'd not bother with 5 KMK cause of 36' range. You're running a freaking green tide! Who's gona get close enough for your gunz to fire? Probably only deepstrikers like crysis suits that'll spread out in the assault phase or a deathstar with invisibility that you won't be able to target properly.
You might consider a bunch of Lobbas cause they're alwayz nice and cheap or some AA guns. To make it a bit easier for you when you inevitably meet a Flyer/FMC spam.
So, I've considered all of these points previously in my green tide list.
1. While Da Big Bosspole is great, it's also totally unnecessary. The mob literally can never fail a morale check or pinning check as long as A. There are 10 or more boyz left in the squad and B. I have at least one character left. As such, the ONLY time it's relevant is with fear, and with the warboss, the squad is ld9, which isn't too shabby. In addition, you'd be surprised how often the warboss is relevant - usually against eldar, tau, and knights, the str 10 is fantastic, and him being a leader doesn't matter.
2. I agree more nobs would be useful, but it's points I don't have. Everything else in the list is basically barebones. In addition, I've found 8 klaws way more then necessary usually.
3. I agree about the 'eavy armor, but with a 5++ all the time, it's less important. Again, comes down to points shaved from....where?
4. Same thing with grot orderlies. My warboss and big mek RARELY die, and even when they do, it has never come down to a single FNP save.
5. Absolutely 100% disagree about the KMK. They are worth their weight in gold. They are fantastic anti tank, great suppressors, they kill broadsides, cent devvie stars, deepstriking suits, and are an incredible threat for the opponent to deal with. Any squad that gets withing 36" is usually toast.
6. Traktor kannons are great - but they are useful so infrequently. So many times I've taken them and been like - "these are points wasted". Instead, the tank bustas are my anti air. Don't underestimate the power of 23 tank hunting rockets shooting at a flier, they are killer.
In any case, it's all irrelevant because the list is submitted and can't be changed.
Wow, I can't wait to see the battle reports. Take some photos! This should be fun to watch. I don't know anything about tournaments as I have only ever been a casual gamer, playing against family and friends, but the list looks good. Lots and lots of stuff with minimal wargear and upgrades.
My only question is, why all the Big Shootas on the trakks? What are they trying to kill that the boyz can't? Or do they just come standard? I don't have the rules for those. Seems like rokkits would help more since they will be with the Tankbustas.
That's a real purty stompa ya got there Dok. It'd be a shame if somebody won it.
Fxeni, this is the D-bag-Texan / BFF that got me back into 40k.... Howler... meet Fxeni.... a future colleague from the great white north.....
Howler... no list building ideas for him.... not fair... he needs to be humiliated like IronHandAlex did to me in Pleasanton, CA.... Remember that? 180 boys nearly tabled... I did a single wound to one riptide.... yay orks...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh gak... list is submitted I just read?
I think the tank bustas may be pretty good..... MAYBE. Traktor Kannons are overblown in my opinion as well. You needed the BBP.... No doubt about it....
I dig your list man! I think you have potential to do well with it. Certain super heavies or IK armies + allies could cause some problems with their ability to tarpit and go nuclear, maybe mech speed bumps to bunch up the boys. I suppose thats where the support units come in handy.
I gotta ask though since FW seems fine why not gun wagons over big trakks? +1 av for +10 pts..
Well... Fxeni.. I worka 24 tomorrow and will be looking forward to some updates. Hey... Check my batrep if you get a chance. Gotta keep the Orks ... But we need a buff. Tau are it....
So, as mentioned, the Renegade on Day 1 is either 3 games or 4 games. It is 3 games to determine the top 16, which then play a fourth game to determine the top 8 which play on the championship on Sunday.
Here's a quick picture of my Orks, in all their horde-y glory!
And a quick reminder of my list:
* "Green Tide Formation" 94x Boyz
6x Nobz with Klaws
+ Fast Attack + * Deffkopta
Choppa, Twin-linked Rokkits
* Deffkopta
Choppa, Twin-linked Rokkits
+ Heavy Support + * Big Trakks
* Big Trakk
2x Big Shoota, Boarding Plank
* Big Trakk
2x Big Shoota, Boarding Plank
* Big Trakk
2x Big Shoota, Boarding Plank
* Mek Gunz
5x Ammo Runt
* 5x Kustom Mega-kannon w/ Grots
So, I show up nice, bright and early to find my first opponent.....
Chris Mehrstedt's Imperial Knights w/ GK Allies
Well, I guess we're starting things off with a bang. Of all opponents, my first is Chris, who is the guy who basically runs the Adepticon Team Tournament - and a helluva good player! Talk about hitting the road running.
I take a gander at his list, and it's not a big shocker: Adamantium Lance.
His list:
3x Imperial Knights w/ 2x Battle Cannons, 1x Melta Knight in Lance Formation
1x Dreadknight with Teleporter, Psycannon, and Flamer
5 GK Terminators (butt naked)
Lvl 2 GK libby
Stormraven with all the riggings (Multi-melta, Lascannon)
Renegade Missions work as follows: Four points for Primary, three points for secondary, and 1 point each for solo blood, linebreaker, and slay the warlord.
What's solo blood, you ask? Solo blood can be earned by other player and occurs when one player gets a kill point in one game turn, and the other player doesn't.
So, for mission 1:
Primary: Emperor's Will
Secondary: Maelstrom (modified)
Tertiary: Slay the Warlord, Linebreaker, Solo Blood.
Deployment: Vanguard Strike
I believe I won the roll to go first and let Chris deploy and go first. His deployment:
The dreadknight is hiding behind the ruins in his corner away from my Kustom Mega Kannons
My Deployment:
I spread out to avoid battle kannons, the KMKs are hiding in the ruins, and the tankbustas are in the Big Trakks hiding in the ruins as well. Gretchin go in reserve, deffkoptas also hide.
Early Game:
Chris moves to flank my army, and basically starts unloading the battle cannons on my orks. He takes out some boys and some KMKs, and kills about 10-15 boys a turn.
Meanwhile, because my army is good at denying kill points and he can't get into my deployment zone or take my objective from me, I start racking up the Maelstrom points, while Chris doesn't.
By about mid-game, the board looks like this:
Chris is basically unhurt at this point, except for one thing. His stormraven came on the board on turn 3, and a squad of tankbustas shot at it. He jinked, I managed two hits, then two pens - followed by a crew stunned! That means the stormraven has to move 18" directly ahead - right onto my blob! Since it can't, it crashes, and the terminators all deepstrike out before the flier goes down in a blaze. You can see them sitting in a nice little blob on the board.
Up until this point, Chris has basically been killing the tide as fast as it can move towards him, which I am fine with - because I'm smoking him in Maelstrom points. Eventually, however, my tide gets there, and there's a giant blob fight in the middle of the board:
At the end of all the chaos, it's turn 5. It's impossible for Chris to win secondary at this point, and all he has left is a single knight and his dreadknight with a single wound. I have one immobilized big trakk, 2 squads of grots, 3 KMKs, and 1 deffkopta. I try to shoot his dreadknight with my KMKs, do a single wound, and Chris makes it on a 4++. Oh well, no biggie.
If the game ends on turn 5, I control my own objective and deny Chris his with my Deffkopta, and I win 10-0.
We roll to see if the game ends and.....
Spoiler:
Chris rolls a 3. ::Facepalm:: Well, I can still take this. Chris moves to kill my Deffkopta with his knight and does so, taking his objective back. I unload onto his dreadknight, doing about 1-2 armor saves and 1 invul save on a 4++. Note that if Chris fails ANY of these rolls, his Dreadknight (who has a single wound) dies and he can't contest my objective.
Unfortunately, Chris makes all of his saves! Still, I control my objective with my obj secured grots (he killed the other squad). If the game ends here, we tie primary, and I win on secondary points.
Again, we roll and.....
Spoiler:
It's another 4+! JEEZ! Seriously!?
Chris moves in to kill my last grot squad standing on my objective and then hides in the ruins. The game now looks like this:
I now need to kill his Dreadknight. If not, Chris contests my artillery which is holding my objective (meaning no one has it) and he controls his own with his own Knight.
I do a single wound with my KMK. Chris needs a 4+ to live. If he fails, I win on secondaries.
He rolls and....
Spoiler:
It's a 4.
Game over man.
Chris controls his own objective, and denies me mine, winning on primary.
I crush him on Maelstrom.
We both have warlord.
We both have solo blood.
Chris has linebreaker, I do not.
Chris takes it, 7-5.
After-Game Thoughts:
Spoiler:
Holy gak what a good game this was. Chris was a fantastic opponent, and it was neck and neck. If a SINGLE roll from turn 5 on had not gone Chris' way, he would have lost and I would have won. All he had to do was either fail a single save on his dreadknight, or the game needed to end, and I win.
As it was, Chris needed to:
Make one 4++ on Turn 5, which he did.
Roll a 3+ to continue the game to turn 6, which he did.
Roll a 4++ and two 2+ on turn 6, which he did.
Roll a 4+ to continue the game to turn 7, which he did.
And make one last 4++ on turn 7, which he did.
If he had failed a single one of those rolls, I would have won. After calculating the odds, the chances of Chris making all of those rolls are about 1/2 * 2/3 * 1/2 * 5/6 *5/6 * 1/2 * 1/2, which equals 50/1738 - or about 2.8%!
Nothing I can do about that!
With that said, Chris played a great game, and was a fantastic opponent. I was happy to lose to a guy who was such a good player - the games that come down to the single dice roll (or in this case, several single dice rolls) really are the best.
So where do I sit? Well, unfortunately, I'm now 0-1. This means a couple things.
1. In order to prove Orks can cut it, I need to go undefeated for my next 2 games.
2. I still have a chance at top 16 (there won't be 16 undefeated players), but I need to do EXTREMELY well in the next two games to make it.
Can I do it? Well, you'll find out in the next report!
Chris's After Game Thoughts:
Spoiler:
My thought from even before the SR went down was to abandon Secondary, take my objective, contest yours, and win by 1 or 2. It's more a comment on the mission - win by 1 or 10 it doesn't matter. The only way I saw that happening was with Primary and a combination of Line Breaker / Solo Blood.
Basically contesting yours earned me 5 points and that was the Dread Knights mission from early on. I was just hoping on using the Termies to clear out the Artillery which makes the dreadknight free to get the Gretchin.
Wow what a great game! Well done, I think you can do it! On the plus side, your next game is going to be against someone who lost, so will hopefully be a little easier to manage
jathomas2013 wrote: Wow what a great game! Well done, I think you can do it! On the plus side, your next game is going to be against someone who lost, so will hopefully be a little easier to manage
Where are the rules for the Big Trakks?
Basically a midway point between Trukks and Battlewagons. Armor 12 front, 11 side, 10 back. Two big shootas on them base. Open topped, like most Ork vehicles.
Your anti-template tactic kept a lot of boyz on the table. Very impressive to be in such a strong position on Turn 5. Didn't get the chance to talk with you at the tournament, so I'm glad you're posting reports.
doktor_g wrote: Man, that was pretty close. Closer than I would've thought with the IKs. How did you manage to kill them? The kannons and BigTrakks?
Great game bro... keep it up... Just realized my Tau/Ork LVO list was no bueno (I was using an illegal tactic) back to the drawing board....
Looking forward to bat rep 2!!!!!
It was a combination of WS 5 Str 9 Power Claws and the Mechboy's Armor Bane attacks. Matt did a good job of "cycling" the nobs in the middle of the mob to keep the battle cannon casualties from killing them. There was a point in turn 4 or 5 where the Warlord Knight was left fighting 4 nobs, a Mechboy and like 2 orks. I also missed a few short charges which meant I was taking Str 9 power claws instead of Str 8. In the end that netted him the Warlord Knight and the other Knight Paladin.
My experience from the tournament is that Knights are killable if you are prepared. Secondarily, there were a few missions where killing the Knights was not required to win the game.
Dozer Blades wrote: I don't think passengers embarked in a zooming transport flyer have an option to deep strike when its shot out of the sky - should be Crash and Burn .
Neither did I, I was certain everyone was lost in that case. I don't see how Deep Strike can essentially interrupt the Crash effect.
Dozer Blades wrote: I don't think passengers embarked in a zooming transport flyer have an option to deep strike when its shot out of the sky - should be Crash and Burn .
The stormraven has a special rule in that the unit embarked in it can deepstrike out if they flyer is zooming. It's something that you do exactly in that situation.
No offense to your opponent, but that is a ridiculous list for a game of Warhammer 40k. Five huge models and one squad with a psyker? I thought 40k was a tactical skirmish game between squads. There was once a time when the game rewarded the use of troops and balanced lists. It looks like new rules reward using a handful of giant, super-powered models that the majority of an enemy's army cannot harm. Doesn't sound fun to me, but I guess that is why I don't go to tournaments!
You did an excellent job in this game. I can't wait to see how you do in an actual game of 40k rather than a game of Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots or Apocalypse or whatever that was you just played. It certainly didn't look like any game of 40k I ever played in all my years...
I'm looking forward to the rest of the reports. Thanks for sharing.
Well, it's round 2, and the stakes are high. I now need to try and win my next two games in effort to prove that Orks can cut it. In addition, making top 16 is still possible - but I can't afford any mistakes if I wish to do so.
My pride is on the line - and the Ork Waaaugh needs to be vindicated!
I'm matched up for round 2, and my opponent is....
John Heil's White Scars with Imperial Knight Allies
Guess I'm getting another chance at the Knights - although in this case, it's just the one instead of three.
I lost John's list, but from memory, it was something like this:
Khan
5x Command Squad with Apothecary, Stormshields, 1x Lightning Claw, 1 Powerfist, and 5 Storm Shields
2x 5x man Bike squads with Meltas + 1x Attack Bike
2x 5x man Bike Squads with Grav
Sicaran Relic Battle Tank w/ Double Lascannon
3x Tarantula Sentry Turrents (Lascannons)
Imperial Knight Errant (That's the one with Melta, right?)
Deployment: Dawn of War
Primary: Killpoints with every Heavy Support with 1 extra VP, and 2x objectives worth 2 VP each.
Seconary: Modified Maelstrom
Tertiary: Slay the Warlord, Solo Blood, Linebreaker.
An odd sort of Kill Point mission, no doubt, but I kinda like it. I'm only have two heavy supports, both of which are tough to kill (the artillery and my squad of big trakks), while John has the Sicaran (which, by god, I WILL kill, those damn things annoy the gak outta me) and the Tarantula Turrets.
I have some advantages against John:
1. He has a fair amount of grav, which doesn't do much of anything to my blob (it wounds on a 6! )
2. It is HARD AS HELL to take Kill Points from my army (You have to kill the WHOLE green tide to get any killpoints from it - but if you do, its worth 11!)
3. I won the roll to go second and decided to do so, as it will help me with objectives.
However, John has some advantages over me, too:
1. He has Hit and Run on nearly everything. That's gonna make it tricky to kill all his stuff in combat. If he's smart, he can shoot me, charge me, and then hit and run out of combat every turn for max damage!
2. He has WAY more mobility then me.
3. He has 3+ jinks to avoid my rokkits and my KMKs
However, I have vengeance on my side! My Orks shall not be denied the opportunity to prove they are competitive (I hope )!
We set up, and the board looks something like this:
This is actually a picture of turn 1 (I forgot to take a picture of deployment), so just imagine my blob back another 9 inches or so.
John scouts up, I try to seize so I can get a turn 1 assault, and fail, and the game begins!
Early Game:
John plays conservatively, and basically sits back at around 24" taking potshots with just about everything. Since his grav is incredibly ineffective, he just throws bolters downfield, along with everything else. EVERYTHING he has goes into the green tide.
However, I have the bodies (and the FNP) to keep moving forward. Again, similar to the first game, because he can't get into my deployment area, can't take my objective, and can't get KPs easily, I start taking the advantage in Maelstrom.
Meanwhile, my tide keeps slogging it upfield. I keep them spread out in a nice line because I don't want John shooting past my tide and into my back line, where he could cause problems (and easily gain maelstrom points). Meanwhile, my KMKs take some pot shots along with my Rokkits at his bikes (his knight and sicaran remain out of range), and he occasionally fails a morale check and falls back - but still hasn't lost any kill points.
Mid Game:
NEITHER one of us has killed a SINGLE unit at this point, although both of us have lost models. However, while John may be taking a few boyz from the front, I'm taking valuable bikes - and, morover, every time I shoot at one of his units with my Tankbustas or artillery, he has to jink, which massively decreases the shooting ability of that unit.
By turn 3, John has a tough decision to make. He's quickly running out of room to hide from me, and with a good WAUGH run, I may just overtake him with a good charge. That leaves him with two choices:
1. He can bide his time and take another couple turns to shoot, hoping my charging is either ineffective or doesn't make it.
2. He can try to tie me up with some sacrificial units, preventing me from moving forward, and then hit&running out on his turn to shoot me.
John makes the wiser (IMHO) decision and goes with option #2. The tricky question is, how much should he throw into the tide? Too much, and he bleeds valuable models to klaws. Too few, and I can wipe out the unit, and I'll get a bonus consolidate before I get to move, run, and charge next turn, leaving him with an even WORSE position then he is in now.
In the end, John decides to throw 4 units into me.
1. His command squad, who is down 1 model (leaving it with 4).
2. A unit of 2 bikes, badly mauled by shooting.
3. A completely unhurt unit of 5 bikes
4. His unhurt knight.
John shoots me, and then charges, but fails to make it with the 2 man squad. The knight, command squad, and 5 man troop bike squad all make it in.
At the end of it, because of the hit and wrath rolls, John does a fair amount of damage to the squad, while I just kill a few in return with klaws.
Furthermore, his Knight stomps out my Big Mek with a 6.
He hits and runs out of combat with his command squad, but the 5 man bike squad fails to hit and run and stays in combat with the Knight.
Alright, now it's MY turn to charge.
End Game:
We start running low on time at this point, so pictures are scarce, but I have a very clear battle plan.
1. I want to kill the knight (it's a matter of pride, man!)
2. I want to kill the Sicaran.
3. I want to free up my green tide to finish this.
All three will be accomplished with the use of Tankbustas!
So, I move up my Big Trakks, and unload the 5 man squad midfield. They make a run, and charge the Sicaran Tank. They EASILY blow it up with melta bombs.
One of the 9 man squads of Tank Bustas gets out of their ride, and charges the knight already locked in combat.
The final tankbusta squad moves up (they were knocked out of their ride earlier in the game) and also charges the knight.
In addition, the KMKs fire at the 2 man squad that failed to make it into combat, and wipe them out, despite a 3+ jink save.
At the end, we get something that looks like this:
You'll note the Sicaran (on the left side of the picture, just next to the piece of paper) is gone, replaced by 3 tankbustas hanging around (who will inevitable die soon).
The combination of melta boms from tankbustas and klaws peels the Knight open, and it goes poof.
The Warboss and a single klaw nob tear apart the 5 man bike squad, and now the green tide is free.
Now, at the end of the game, we each have the following:
John has:
His 3 turrets, unharmed.
The command squad, down to 3 dudes + Khan
1 squad of 2 bikers that fell back and are near the board edge.
1 squad of 5 bikers that are unhurt.
I have:
Most of my green tide (minus the Big Mek )
2 Big Trakks
My tankbustas (although, now, slightly depopulated due to explosions)
2x deffkoptas
My KMKs My Gretchin
It's looking grimdark for John, but he decides to do the best he can.
On the final turn, he tries to take out my Big Trakk squad (remember, it's a heavy support, and worth two KP!) and does so!
He also blows away the tiny squad of tankbustas who killed his sicaran (well, they did their job. )
He charges his command squad in to try and kill my warlord. I have to accept the challenge from Khan, who fails to roll the 6 he needs to kill me. However, I also roll only 1 wound with my Warboss (who woulda insta killed Khan), and he makes his invul. Meanwhile, the command squad gets brutalized by the green tide, so Khan Hits&Runs all by his lonesome self.
So now, on the last turn, I have John on Primary, Secondary, and solo blood and linebreaker .... but I want warlord!
So, I charge in my green tide (literally, everything into Khan - and Khan challenges me) I am forced to accept.
What happens?
Spoiler:
Khan rolls to hit, and gets 3 hits. Then, he rolls 2 , insta-killing my warlord. Holy crap!
In addition, due to Khan's warlord trait, he gets an extra d3 VP and rolls another , netting him another 3 VP!
Well, that's bad.
Spoiler:
However, it's not all peaches and roses for the white scars....as Khan kinda forgot about allllllllll the other Klaws in there. Oops. My 15 or so klaw attacks mow him down, and Khan goes bye-bye.
Spoiler:
In the end, despite the HUGE increase in BP taken by Khan, I manage to kill off that last two man bike squad, leaving John with just the 1 squad left, and leaving me with a KP advantage.
I win primary.
I win secondary.
I get warlord, linebreaker, and solo blood.
John gets warlord (KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!) and solo blood.
The orks take it, 10-2!
After game thoughts:
Spoiler:
BOO-YAH! A perfect score! The orks ain't outta the running yet.
As for my opponent, poor John was a great guy who just had a bad matchup. Grav doesn't do much against me, and even though he has a low KP list, my list tends to give up even less KP then his. However, I designed it that way on purpose.
John made the right move by trying to tie up the blob, and had I been in the same situation, I woulda done the same thing. The only thing I think John didn't capitalize on was his mobility - even when tying me up in combat, John never tried to move around to blob to take my backfield, where my gretchin and KMKs are vulnerable to assault. In this case, I don't think it would have made much of a difference, but it would have meant I wouldn't have been able to move into his backfield with impunity, as my green tide did.
So, where do I sit now? I'm 1-1, and my second game netted me a perfect score. I can still make top 16 and win 2 of 3 games, but I still need another good game to do so.
Well, that's alright. Shouldn't be too bad, right?
At least.....as long as it's not Tau for third round....
Well, that was a hard-counter for white scars, in all fairness. Would like to see how well could the greentide fare against eldar or dark eldar with corpsthief claw. And definitely a guard with couple wiverns
Good game on your part, anywayz! Btw, can you look out the stomps?
koooaei wrote: Well, that was a hard-counter for white scars, in all fairness. Would like to see how well could the greentide fare against eldar or dark eldar with corpsthief claw. And definitely a guard with couple wiverns
Good game on your part, anywayz! Btw, can you look out the stomps?
Sadly, on a 6, no. It just removes the model, period, end of story.
- Look out! A 5000 tonn towering monster is gona squish you beneath it's feet! I'll save yoAAAAPFSHhhhhh-
- Thanks God Emperor! The guy got in the way.
Anywayz. So far lots of IK. What do you think about killsaw slotless meks here and there? Or Pk are just enough to do the job?
I'm really interested to see how Greentide would fare vs Corpsethief with buffed fnp. Would 5-6 Klaws be enough?
koooaei wrote: Well, that was a hard-counter for white scars, in all fairness. Would like to see how well could the greentide fare against eldar or dark eldar with corpsthief claw. And definitely a guard with couple wiverns
Good game on your part, anywayz! Btw, can you look out the stomps?
I agree with koooaei. The only victory my battle wagon rush had at the 2013 Las Vegas Open was vs bikes (Ravenguard though)
The Riddle of Steel wrote: No offense to your opponent, but that is a ridiculous list for a game of Warhammer 40k. Five huge models and one squad with a psyker? I thought 40k was a tactical skirmish game between squads. There was once a time when the game rewarded the use of troops and balanced lists. It looks like new rules reward using a handful of giant, super-powered models that the majority of an enemy's army cannot harm. Doesn't sound fun to me, but I guess that is why I don't go to tournaments!
You did an excellent job in this game. I can't wait to see how you do in an actual game of 40k rather than a game of Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots or Apocalypse or whatever that was you just played. It certainly didn't look like any game of 40k I ever played in all my years...
I'm looking forward to the rest of the reports. Thanks for sharing.
Thems the breaks bro... Makes me cry too.
Fxeni!!!!! Congrats dude. My stompa is giving me a hug because he doesn't want to go to the Midwest....
I'm on the edge of my seat!!!!! Can't wait for number 3!
Great game. Thanks again for sharing. It is so impressive to see how much abuse the Tide can take and keep on coming! Against a bunch of regular mobz, they would have wiped you out when they charged you by catching them in Sweeping Advances. I may have to look into this Green Tide thing!
I always love to see the Orks win, especially in such an Orky fashion: Slog forward, taking your opponent's best shot and shrugging it off before delivering a wicked counter blow that sends him reeling! Blowing up vehicles in close combat with Bustas and overwhelming even the mightiest characters with a mass of power klaws! Now that's the proppa way to krump 'em!
Fxeni wrote: 1. While Da Big Bosspole is great, it's also totally unnecessary. The mob literally can never fail a morale check or pinning check as long as A. There are 10 or more boyz left in the squad and B. I have at least one character left. As such, the ONLY time it's relevant is with fear, and with the warboss, the squad is ld9, which isn't too shabby.
A bit late for suggestions I know, but I'll have to disagree with this point.
True the mob won't run away, but it will take a lot of hits instead. More than usually thanks to Da Boss is Watchin' rule. Fail a moral test, and that's a lot of extra hits. Fail a pinning test and that's a lot of extra hits. Your opponent will be trying to force tests on this unit, not to make them run, but to make them take more hits. It's a big mob, but if you can avoid damage you should.
Either way, this is an enjoyable read, and look forward to seeing how the rest works out
You're also gona get to pass fear tests quite often. Going from hitting on 3-s and 4-s to striking on 5-s with your 100 boyz if you accidentally meet some daemon or MC. And If you meet dark eldar with buffed fear tests, they'll tarpit your greentide with their tough fearless fnp guyz 2 times more effectively. And iirc Knights also cause fear. And so far, 100% of your matchups have knights
20 pts for fearless on a 100+ model unit is too good to pass by.
The real question is whether we will learn the fate of the lonely Stompa? I am still waiting to see the rest of these games! I want to see da boyz best the crap outta some more people!
Benamint wrote: The real question is whether we will learn the fate of the lonely Stompa? I am still waiting to see the rest of these games! I want to see da boyz best the crap outta some more people!
Fret not, the battle reports are coming - school has just been kicking my ass the past week or so. I haven't forgotten, and they will be done!
The Riddle of Steel wrote: No offense to your opponent, but that is a ridiculous list for a game of Warhammer 40k. Five huge models and one squad with a psyker? I thought 40k was a tactical skirmish game between squads. There was once a time when the game rewarded the use of troops and balanced lists. It looks like new rules reward using a handful of giant, super-powered models that the majority of an enemy's army cannot harm. Doesn't sound fun to me, but I guess that is why I don't go to tournaments!
You did an excellent job in this game. I can't wait to see how you do in an actual game of 40k rather than a game of Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots or Apocalypse or whatever that was you just played. It certainly didn't look like any game of 40k I ever played in all my years...
I'm looking forward to the rest of the reports. Thanks for sharing.
The Riddle of Steel wrote: No offense to your opponent, but that is a ridiculous list for a game of Warhammer 40k. Five huge models and one squad with a psyker? I thought 40k was a tactical skirmish game between squads. There was once a time when the game rewarded the use of troops and balanced lists. It looks like new rules reward using a handful of giant, super-powered models that the majority of an enemy's army cannot harm. Doesn't sound fun to me, but I guess that is why I don't go to tournaments!
You did an excellent job in this game. I can't wait to see how you do in an actual game of 40k rather than a game of Rock 'Em Sock 'Em Robots or Apocalypse or whatever that was you just played. It certainly didn't look like any game of 40k I ever played in all my years...
I'm looking forward to the rest of the reports. Thanks for sharing.
Back in my day....
Back in my day I used to take a chaos lord in teminator armour 2+save on 2 dice with a power field 2+invulnerable walk him out in front of my army so that the opponent had to shoot him whilst the rest of my army spent a turn or two without being shot at!
It does look like some people are buying their way to victory nowadays!
Round 3! I'm 1-1, which means that to prove Orks are competitive, I need to win this game! In addition, with high points from the first game and full points from the second, there is a very real chance I could make top 16 - but only if I rock this third game too!
I'm feeling pretty good about this. My first game was -barely- a loss, and the second game was a crushing victory. In addition, the mission is a kill point mission with 6 objectives midfield, each worth various points. PERFECT! My tide can run up in dat business and just sit on those objectives all game, doing what they do best!
The only way this can go wrong is if-
Shawn Miller's Farsight Tau with Tau Allies
I play Tau.
WELL NOW. Maybe it won't be so bad, let's look at the list, shall we.....?
Farsight
3x Crisis Suits w/ Double Melta
3x Crisis Suits w/ Double Melta
2x Crisis Suits w/ Double Missile
2x Crisis Suits w/ Double Missile
3 Sniper Drones w/ 3 Marksmen
3 Sniper Drones w/ 3 Marksmen
Riptide w/ Ion + Earth Caste
Riptide w/ Ion + Book of whatever
Ethereal
10x Fire Warriors in Dfish
10x Fire Warriors in Dfish
Deployment: Hammer and Anvil
Primary: Killpoints with Objectives being worth several KP each (there are 6 objectives, 3 placed by each player).
Secondary: Modified Maelstrom
Tertiary: Slay the Warlord, Solo Blood, Linebreaker.
.....double .
Let's count the issues for me on this list, shall we?
1. Every farsight unit has pref enemy orks. Which means that those units get to reroll ALL 1's to HIT and TO WOUND. With sniper drones/markerlights (which hit on 2s+) and riptides/suits (which wound on 2's), that means that he effectively has rerolls to hit AND to wound.
2. The deployment is HAMMER AND ANVIL. I have to march up the whole board!
3. Volume of Fire. He has the bullets to put a SERIOUS dent in my Orks. The list can put out nearly 100 wounds a turn, with large blasts, snipers (which cause pinning), drones, and long range missiles.
4. The ethereal can add MORE bullets OR give everything within 12" stubborn for free - meaning combat could be a serious pain in my ass.
5. It's HAMMER AND ANVIL. AGAINST TAU.
6. Markerlights ignoring my cover saves in terrain means a bad time for my orks which rely on those saves.
7. Did I mention it's hammer and anvil, against Tau?
Still, not all is grim. I managed to roll a 3 on the strategic table - meaning I get to infiltrate the whole horde again! HAH!
I manage the roll to go first. It's a tough decision, here.
If I go first, I get to move up that much sooner. Against a Tau gunline, every inch I can get is crucial, and that extra turn could prove vital.
On the other hand....
If I go second, I can counter deploy to minimize the damage in the first turn. In addition, I get the final chance to contest or take objectives on the final turn.
I decide to take the second option, and let Shawn deploy first. He does so, putting his 2 riptides on the line with everything else in the back. He decides to deepstrike farsight and both squads of melta suits, everything else is on the board. As a result of the riptides, I can only deploy 18" within his lines, meaning my infiltrate wasn't QUITE as useful as I was hoping it would be. Still, it's an extra 6 inches....I'll take it!
After deployment, the table looks something like this:
Early Game:
Now, remember, not only am I trying to win this game, I am trying to get full points in an effort to make top 16! That means I need Solo Blood, Slay the Warlord, and Linebreaker, along with primary AND secondary!
Shawn jumps his riptides back, activates the ethereal's storm of fire, and basically unloads on my horde. He decides to use his markerlights (mainly) to improve his BS, meaning that although he hits me on 2's (with rerolling 1's to hit and to wound ) I am able to weather the damage quite well with a 5+ or 4+ cover save, followed by my 5+ FNP.
On my turn, I move up, including my tanks and my horde, and shoot my KMK at the closest riptide (literally everything else is out of range ) I do a couple wounds to the tide, and that's about it.
At the end of turn 1, the board looks like this:
Notice anything different? You really shouldn't. I basically moved up about as far as I lost models from the shooting. Shawn has lost nothing model-wise at this point (everything is out of range except the riptides), while I've lost some boyz (though not very many).
In the meantime, I've kept the boys VERY spread out. This is on purpose, as I fully expect some suits to deepstrike in my backfield. My warboss is back there (Ill take that challenge against Farsight!) along with a bunch of klaws to deal with that threat as SOON as they pop up. They are basically the only things that can threaten my backfield.
However, as has been the case in the previous games, I am winning on secondary points. Shawn can't take KPs, he doesn't dare move forward onto the objectives, and he sure can't get into my deployment zone.
On the second turn, Farsight says "NAH" along with the other deepstriking suits, and stays off the board. Again, Shawn keeps unloading on me, shoots some boys, and still NO one has gotten solo blood.
I go WAUGH TO THE WALL with the Deffkopta and move into his deployment zone with it to get one of the secondary maelstrom point, totally recognizing that it will likely be pasted ASAP (and become solo blood ) - but I'm hoping that I can earn solo blood by finishing off the riptide. If not, I'm likely to lose a unit every turn after this, whether from the Tankbustas, the vehicles, the deffkopta, or something else.
I continue to lead Shawn in secondary points, but I am making VERY little headway towards his gunline.
Spoiler:
However, my fear about the deffkopta becomes unfounded, as I manage to kill his wounded riptide with the KMKs, netting me solo blood!
Solo Blood: Earned!
Mid Game
Here's how the board looks at the top of 3.
Here comes Farsight and Co!
Shawn deepstrikes farsight and his attached melta squad in the middle of my horde (basically in the ruins) in an effort to kill my Warboss. However, I've intentionally left the Warboss in the ruins surrounded by boys (for look-out-sirs) in an effort to bait Farsight kinda close, and then hope to punch his lights out.
The other melta suit squad scatters a bit, but still ends up near the horde.
Shawn continues to sit in his backfield and bide his time. In the meantime, he gets the Maelstrom objective to try and kill my vehicle squad, and manages to kill two, but with the help of the KFF, one survives! Meanwhile, More Boys go down in flames.
And....the Deffkopta survives? I'm still not sure how the hell that happened.
Meanwhile, despite Shawn's best attempts, the Warboss survives - completely unharmed! With a 2+ LOS, followed by a 4+ cover, and a 5+ FNP, it wasn't terribly surprising.
So, at the beginning of my third turn, the board looks like this.
*Sniff sniff* Can you smell dat? It smells like a WAAAAAAAAAAAAAUGHHHH!!!
I've got a couple options here.
I can charge Farsight and co. I can charge the second suit squad....or I can (attempt) to charge the tau gunline, which would only be possible with a good run.
After a meager run, I don't feel like giving the Tau a free overwatch shooting phase, and just charge Farsight and co. I need warlord for the full points, and I don't want him threatening my backfield!
My Warboss has to challenge Farsight. Shawn accepts. What happens?
Spoiler:
I'm WS6 with the warboss, meaning that Shawn hits me on 4's. He hits twice, and fails to wound me.
The Warboss, meanwhile, punches the ever-living- out of Farsight! Slay the Warlord: Earned!
As a funny bonus, I decide to move my Tankbustas up (the final squad left in the tank), alongside of the deffkopta, and charge his ethereal's squad. I'm hoping to take out the Ethereal, which has been providing many extra shots via Storm of Fire. I win combat by massive, but because of Stubborn, the Ethereal lives, alongside of several fire warriors.
End Game
Sorry for the crappy shot, but here's how the game looks at this point.
Farsight is dead. The ethereal is tied up. The deepstriking suits are toast. One riptide is gone, and Shawn is hemorrhaging maelstrom points.
He decides to play conservatively at this point, in an effort to go for points at the end of the game. His objective is merely to hold me back, not to kill me. If he can keep me off the objectives, he can get primary and still get several points.
He activates the 6+ FNP on his ethereal, and basically unloads EVERYTHING into the gunline. No artillery. No vehicles. No Deffkopta. No Nonsense. He wants to keep me back!
And keep me back he does. He does enough damage to knock me back several inches, and even with the run, I am not making much ground on Shawn.
Spoiler:
Unfortunately, for Shawn, it isn't enough. It takes me til the bottom of turn 5, but I finally reach his gunline and charge him. With that, Shawn concedes. He can't win primary, he is losing on secondary, and I'm in his deployment zone for linebreaker.
As a funny bonus, that squad of 3 Fire Warriors + Ethereal beat the crap out of the Tankbustas, and even after 5 rounds of combat, the Ethereal lives - with a single wound left, saved from his 6+ FNP!
Linebreaker: Earned!
So, the result of the game?
Spoiler:
I win primary.
I win secondary.
I get warlord, linebreaker, and solo blood.
Shawn gets solo blood.
The Orks take it, 10-1!
After Game Thoughts:
Spoiler:
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! Not only did I win 2/3 games as I promised, but one of them was against (what I personally think is) their worst match: Tau! AND I earned max points doing it!
Shawn, in my humble opinion, just didn't have the aggression he needed to pull off a win. He mostly decided to stay back and shoot my horde, which is great for many situations, but not when you need to get to midfield to hold objectives. I think he would have been best suited by giving his riptides a 3++ with stubborn, and charging into my horde in an effort to tie me up.
Meanwhile, my Green Tide continues to perform as I expected - it's great at denying and earning Maelstrom points, and just provides too many bodies for most opponents to handle.
As a bonus, I take a look at the pairings - With my high scores, I'm 10th seed (the highest of all people who lost a game), meaning I'm gonna make Top 16! I still have a chance to defend my title!
This is by far my favorite batrep of the year !!! Tau with FE is just a bad matchup for Orks in general. I've been saying Green Tide is serious business - just requires a really kunning Warboss. Hats off to you ! ! !
Great job to the orks so far. Can't wait to see the next game.
On a side note. Farsight enclaves only gets preferred enemy orks in close combat, so that might have changed some of the shooty bits of the game. Not that you needed it.
I gotta say, I've really been digging this report, and your army. Thank you for showing all da Orky playerz out there that they can be competitive, and with a very Orky list nonetheless!
swcorwyn wrote: Great job to the orks so far. Can't wait to see the next game.
On a side note. Farsight enclaves only gets preferred enemy orks in close combat, so that might have changed some of the shooty bits of the game. Not that you needed it.
Awesome games! Interesting to see how would you fare against strong barrage. As Wiverns and manticores are brutal vs footsloggas. I think, stick the boss away from the blob and hope for barrage to miss or pass look outs. Or 5++ for MEK. On the other hand, you can win even without a boss, right =)
First off, thanks for posting the next battle. As others have said, I really appreciate seeing the Orks do some serious krumpin' in a competitive environment! All the naysayers complaining about the new Orks need to read these reports. We just needed a proppa' general to show us how it is done!
As for the game, I agree that Hammer and Anvil initially seemed to be a big disadvantage for the Orks, but it didn't seem to impact you too much (partially due to the Infiltrate for 6 extra inches). Although it meant you had to walk farther to get to the enemy, do you think it made it easier for you to deny the mid-field for longer because fewer Orks could hold the entire table width? Also, with the way the terrain was laid out, it seems like the narrow table edge deployment helped more of your boyz get cover saves than if you were advancing from the long table edge.
And you either must have a great tactical feel for the game or just a pair of great big ol' green nutz to let your opponent go first (in Hammer and Anvil!) and take an extra turn shooting you! Going second seemed to be the way to go since it allowed you to get Primary and Linebreaker, right?
Once again, I appreciate the reports and I'll be eagerly looking forward to the rest. Thanks for giving hope to us Ork players!
Second: Jesus can anybody go to tournament without netlisting? Your opponents played some of the most unimaginative gak. This is exactly why I am really starting to like the Highlander comp. At least you get some variety.
quickfuze wrote: Second: Jesus can anybody go to tournament without netlisting? Your opponents played some of the most unimaginative gak. This is exactly why I am really starting to like the Highlander comp. At least you get some variety.
It's a new format. People will settle into netlists for Highlander just the same as anything else.
In fact, the "netlists" for Highlander (if people actually stick with the format long enough for competitive players to focus on it) will likely be more stale, as the rules will inevitably push things toward the center. Quantity is no longer a possible source of variety, since you can only take one of anything. That means less potential variety by default, even if it's forcing a wider variety of choices at first.
Basically, it's a wacky new system. It's wacky because it's new, not because of any inherent virtue of the system. People will inevitably find the best things to do within the confines of the rules, and then people will gravitate towards those things.
There's certainly nothing wrong with the format--it does create a different game--but I'd shy away from acting as if it's somehow going to revolutionize list-building. It's just a new set of rules for people to figure out.
quickfuze wrote: Second: Jesus can anybody go to tournament without netlisting? Your opponents played some of the most unimaginative gak. This is exactly why I am really starting to like the Highlander comp. At least you get some variety.
I'm just wondering how you are so effectively winning maelstrom... Can't your big blob only control one objective per turn (that you designate). Wouldn't that mean you'd only be able to get 1 Maelstrom point a turn?
Well well well.
I'm impressed you're doing so good with the Boyz. Not surprising you lost to Adamantium Lance. A bike list though... Even with an IK shouldn't prove to be much of a match up. Finally, that Tau list... vs the Tide? No chance. To low volume of fire.... Especially keeping the suits off the table. Tssk. Tssk.
Stay tuned ladies and germs to see if he's able to take home the trophy.... My STOMPA!.
doktor_g wrote: Well well well.
Not surprising you lost to Adamantium Lance.
I'd not call the loss to Adamantium lance based on a list mismatch. It was mostly due to bad luck rather than a bad matchup. So far, i think the bad matchup for greentide is only pure serpspam, barrage artillery spam and a super-tough unit with invisibility.
Pure Serp spam is rare as it's mostly mixed with Knights and spiders. Knights are not super-effective against GT and spiders are risking to get caught or murderised by ork artillery.
Artillery spam is not met too often because of the abundance of armies that don't care much about blasts - albeit strong.
Invisible tough tarpit can be encountered though.
So, it's fun but the current escalated meta is a good place for GT. Who could have thought!
Waaagh 18 wrote: I'm just wondering how you are so effectively winning maelstrom... Can't your big blob only control one objective per turn (that you designate). Wouldn't that mean you'd only be able to get 1 Maelstrom point a turn?
BAO's Maelstrom format (which is what was used at Renegade) is enormously different than normal Maelstrom, as there are only two objectives on the board and you roll randomly for which (out of six) missions you will have each turn, a further two of which are simply "kill a unit."
It ends up massively favoring deathstar armies--which in my opinion basically defeats the purpose of Maelstrom in the first place, but we've already ranted about this in other threads.
But basically, in that format, controlling a large portion of the board with a single unit was practically an auto-win for Maelstrom. 100 Orks is virtually tailor-made for it and I can't imagine any serious competitive army that would have much chance taking it away from them.
The only way it could have possibly hurt him is if he'd rolled both "hold an objective" missions on the same turn, but this wasn't really a problem, as each player always placed their own objective in locations that were more or less unreachable by the enemy army anyhow. For instance, there's obviously no way the Tau player was ever going to hold the Ork objective, given that it was under 100 Boyz.
Waaagh 18 wrote: I'm just wondering how you are so effectively winning maelstrom... Can't your big blob only control one objective per turn (that you designate). Wouldn't that mean you'd only be able to get 1 Maelstrom point a turn?
BAO's Maelstrom format (which is what was used at Renegade) is enormously different than normal Maelstrom, as there are only two objectives on the board and you roll randomly for which (out of six) missions you will have each turn, a further two of which are simply "kill a unit."
It ends up massively favoring deathstar armies--which in my opinion basically defeats the purpose of Maelstrom in the first place, but we've already ranted about this in other threads.
But basically, in that format, controlling a large portion of the board with a single unit was practically an auto-win for Maelstrom. 100 Orks is virtually tailor-made for it and I can't imagine any serious competitive army that would have much chance taking it away from them.
The only way it could have possibly hurt him is if he'd rolled both "hold an objective" missions on the same turn, but this wasn't really a problem, as each player always placed their own objective in locations that were more or less unreachable by the enemy army anyhow. For instance, there's obviously no way the Tau player was ever going to hold the Ork objective, given that it was under 100 Boyz.
Sometimes BAO have up to 4 maelstrom objectives on the board. The real issue with BAO maelstrom missions is that in pretty much every game I've played with BAO who wins secondary almost always comes down to who rolls better for objectives turn by turn.
I think so.. It was a heavy blow to my army when I could no longer stretch the shield out into amusing balloon animals, but it's still good for protecting that nob squad, or your warlord.
herpguy wrote: I gotta ask, was the KFF actually worth it? It seems that in such a large blob a 6" radius of 5++ would be kinda worthless.
I've run it before in my Green Tide, though I dont' spread out to full coherency either. It can be helpful to mitigate damage as you can move the KFF around to cover whichever side will be taking the heaviest damage, since the deaths are directional. If you've got things that might insta paste the boyz, toss the KFF over to their side and hope they live a bit longer.
Though, I also have put a Morkanaught in the center of my tide before as well, or near the front to cover the front center of the Tide. Pretty awesome actually XD
That's the thing. Just because spread out into max-coherency drown-the-board mode in this particular game doesn't mean the unit's always like that.
For instance, he's going to get all blobbed up in any protracted combat, which is also a case where he won't be getting the benefit of cover saves and all the wounds are likely coming from the same general location, allowing the KFF to easily cover everyone involved in the fight.
DJ3 wrote: That's the thing. Just because spread out into max-coherency drown-the-board mode in this particular game doesn't mean the unit's always like that.
For instance, he's going to get all blobbed up in any protracted combat, which is also a case where he won't be getting the benefit of cover saves and all the wounds are likely coming from the same general location, allowing the KFF to easily cover everyone involved in the fight.
Well a KFF does absolutely nothing in CC, so that's a moot point.
The only thing I can see making it worth it is if you want to protect your warlord/painboy/etc. from being sniped out by barrage weapons (or vindicare assassins if those are in your meta). However, it still doesn't seem like it would make it worth it.
Remember, the KFF provides the invuln save to more than just the squad he's in. I can't tell from the screenshots, but the KFF could be used to provide some extra protection to the backfield of the list, especially the Vehicles in case of a list with heavy Ignores Cover (wave serpents!!) and little LoS-blocking terrain.
My question is more about the Killsaw. Did you have this Mek hidden in the squad to help deal with Knights/titans/etc? The Stikk is clear, +1 WS to the entire Mob and rerolls for the killsaw.
Waaagh 18 wrote:I'm just wondering how you are so effectively winning maelstrom... Can't your big blob only control one objective per turn (that you designate). Wouldn't that mean you'd only be able to get 1 Maelstrom point a turn?
koooaei wrote:That's why he has koptas too
Big gunz score the backlines, greentide disallows the opponent to come midboard and scores a point per turn, other stuff scores whatever necessery.
Bingo.
There are 6 possible rolls in Renegade GT, in no particular order:
1. Kill a vehicle/monstrous creature unit
2. Kill any unit not in 1.
3. Hold your objective
4. Hold the enemy objective.
5. Have at least one guy in enemy deployment zone
6. Have at least three units in your deployment zone with no enemy units there.
1 and 2 aren't necessarily easy for me to obtain, but they are easy for my list to deny. I only have a single vehicle unit, which is composed of 9 hull points of armor 12/11/10. Most of my non vehicle units are also hard to kill.
3. Is easy with green tide.
4 and 5 are achieved with either the green tide or deffkoptas.
6. Is also easily denied with the green tide.
herpguy wrote:I gotta ask, was the KFF actually worth it? It seems that in such a large blob a 6" radius of 5++ would be kinda worthless.
koooaei wrote:Yep. Also thinking bout it. Is a small 5++ bauble worth the points?
It's ok. Not great, not awful. It helps in certain situations when cover is ignored, and also helps to protect vehicles.
I will do a full list analysis at the end and rate the stuff in my army.
My question is more about the Killsaw. Did you have this Mek hidden in the squad to help deal with Knights/titans/etc? The Stikk is clear, +1 WS to the entire Mob and rerolls for the killsaw.
The kill saw was the main reason I took a Mek. Being able to reroll to hit with a str 9 chain fist on the charge is no joke, and it helps MURDER vehicles, especially Knights,
Automatically Appended Next Post: Renegade Open GT 2015 - Round 4
Well, I hate to disappoint you all, but there was no round 4.
Why? Well.....
The TOs for the renegade put their match ups up, and I was confused to note that I was not listed on the top 16. Thinking I has screwed up my points in my head, I double checked my score....but I was most definitely #10 pointwise.
After approaching the TOs about this, it turned out SEVERAL people who were supposed to be on the top 16 were missing from the list, while several people who were NOT supposed to be in the top 16, were.
The TOs redid their pairings, and put up another set of top 16 matchups.....which was still wrong (though, this time, I was on the list). Again, the TOs were approached and made aware of the issue, and they tried to fix it again.
In the end, the TOs spent about an hour figuring out the match ups. After four attempts, they put up (what they claimed was) their final and correct set of match ups.....which was still wrong.
People were getting (understandably) upset at this point, but the TOs were so tired, stressed, and annoyed that they refused to change it again. As a result, even though the TOs knew the matchups were wrong, and that I (and a couple others) were supposed to be playing, they would not redo the match ups again.
As a result, I (and I believe 2 others) were not allowed to play in the top 16, even though we were supposed to, and it was known we were supposed to.
The next morning, the TOs apologized for not fixing the match ups, but the damage was done. The top 8 had been determined (with the wrong players, nonetheless) but they couldn't reverse their situation.
I was so disappointed and upset about the situation that it just sucked the fun right out of the tournament for me. I had zero desire to play in the tournament anymore, especially since I was (effectively) given a loss for no reason and forced to play in The RTT as opposed to the championship due to a fixable, known-of, clerical error.
As a result, there are no more battle reports from the renegade open GT. Sorry folks.
I want to state, for the record, that the TOs are all friends of mine, and that I know there was no malevolence behind what they did. They approached me privately and apologized, offering a free years entrance into next years tournament, which was really the best they could do, considering the situation. It was a mistake, albeit one they could have prevented/fixed, and I know they will double their efforts to make sure nothing even remotely close happens like this ever again - so please don't let this discourage you from attending the renegade if you ever consider doing so in the future.
Still, not all is gloomy. I did win 2 of 3 games, did well with the Orks, and I will be writing an after tournament analysis of my list and what did or did not work, along with grading my various units.
In addition, i will be taking the green tide to the Las Vegas Open in February. I have been (pleasantly) surprised to see how popular my battle report has been, so I may end up doing battle reports of that GT if people are interested.
In the meantime, as I said, I will post a list analysis and grade of my units shortly, so look forward to that!
Your battle reports were top notch. I can't wait for your list analysis. Getting a bat rep for the upcoming LVO would be amazing!
As for the clerical error, it happened to me before. It sucks for all parties. Hopefully the organizers will learn from what happened this year so that they can avoid a repeat next year. Good fighting despite what happened. Orks might not've been able to take the top this year, but it was a good fight and there's always next year.
That game could have gone either way. This was a good strategy overall, but the knights were going to make it very hard to win. Glad you were able to keep it so close.
Hey Fxeni, so I've been following this batrep log since I've always been interested in orks and am finally starting them so I've been on a lot scouring for deals. But anyhow, a couple questions. Obviously you are a pretty dang good player, but are you typically a tournament competitive player or more of a friendly type gamer? I ask this because while you have shown that orks can still hang tough with the bigger dogs, it really doesn't seem like it would be a ton of fun to play. Do you actually enjoy playing this list or do you just like being able to hang in competitive circuits?
Fxeni wrote: Well, I hate to disappoint you all, but there was no round 4.
Why? Well.....
There's the shoe!
Sorry you got screwed out of a shot at the top 8. :(
I'm looking forward to your unit analysis/tactica. No one plays Orks locally, and I've only ever faced them twice in the past two years, so I've no real appreciation for how they work (or don't).
Nobody's real sure what happened with that final set of pairings, but everyone involved knows it was an absolute mess.
Going into the fourth round, I was tied for first (me and one other player were 1-point off of the max possible, and nobody scored max). The first three sets of pairings they put up, I was the #1 seed, and the other player was the #2 seed.
The "final" pairings, inexplicably, had me as the #12 seed and the other player as the #7 seed. It was very, very strange.
That was a great run, Fxeni. Too bad about the ending, but I hope you had fun at least until that point. Good to see orks kicking a$$ and taking names.
I might have to challenge the BloodofKittens guy to a game one of these days. He ran the greentide in our last tournament and did quite well with them.
Benamint wrote:Hey Fxeni, so I've been following this batrep log since I've always been interested in orks and am finally starting them so I've been on a lot scouring for deals. But anyhow, a couple questions. Obviously you are a pretty dang good player, but are you typically a tournament competitive player or more of a friendly type gamer? I ask this because while you have shown that orks can still hang tough with the bigger dogs, it really doesn't seem like it would be a ton of fun to play. Do you actually enjoy playing this list or do you just like being able to hang in competitive circuits?
I LOVE Orks - I would not be playing them if I did not have fun with them. That's why I don't run Tau or Eldar, which, (IMHO) are probably better tournament armies. I only run stuff I have fun with.
Granted, my green tide isn't as fun as my 5th ed Battlewagon Orks were, but regardless, I still enjoy the hell out of it!
After Greentide, I plan on running one of da Triple Bs: Blitz Brigade, or Bikes, or Bully Boyz, all of which (I think) will be both fun AND competitive, so I encourage you to check those out if green tide isn't your style.
jy2 wrote:That was a great run, Fxeni. Too bad about the ending, but I hope you had fun at least until that point. Good to see orks kicking a$$ and taking names.
I might have to challenge the BloodofKittens guy to a game one of these days. He ran the greentide in our last tournament and did quite well with them.
BTW, see you at the LVO.
Aye, I look forward to meeting multiple people there. You may not actually recall, but I met you at Adepticon this previous year, discussing Necron tactics.
Dilt wrote:Your battle reports were top notch. I can't wait for your list analysis. Getting a bat rep for the upcoming LVO would be amazing!
As for the clerical error, it happened to me before. It sucks for all parties. Hopefully the organizers will learn from what happened this year so that they can avoid a repeat next year. Good fighting despite what happened. Orks might not've been able to take the top this year, but it was a good fight and there's always next year.
Aye. The damage has been done. I know some people may feel inclined to raise a stink about this, but honestly, it's already caused enough grief for all parties. I'd rather the tournament succeed next year (where I get free attendance) and they do a better job then see the GT fail - the damage is done, feeling slighted by it will not change anything at this point (though, at the moment of the feth-up, I was most definitely very, VERY, pissed off)
jy2 wrote:That was a great run, Fxeni. Too bad about the ending, but I hope you had fun at least until that point. Good to see orks kicking a$$ and taking names.
I might have to challenge the BloodofKittens guy to a game one of these days. He ran the greentide in our last tournament and did quite well with them.
BTW, see you at the LVO.
Aye, I look forward to meeting multiple people there. You may not actually recall, but I met you at Adepticon this previous year, discussing Necron tactics.
I met a lot of dakkalites, including Roci, RiTides, Wyomingfox, Fxeni, Chancetragedy (my roommate for the trip), Eltrain (my Adepticon Team Tournament teammate), Coldsteel (my other Adepticon Team Tournament teammate), Yermom (Nick Nanavati, winner of the Adepticon singles), Mike Brandt and many others.
jy2 wrote:That was a great run, Fxeni. Too bad about the ending, but I hope you had fun at least until that point. Good to see orks kicking a$$ and taking names.
I might have to challenge the BloodofKittens guy to a game one of these days. He ran the greentide in our last tournament and did quite well with them.
BTW, see you at the LVO.
Aye, I look forward to meeting multiple people there. You may not actually recall, but I met you at Adepticon this previous year, discussing Necron tactics.
I met a lot of dakkalites, including Roci, RiTides, Wyomingfox, Fxeni, Chancetragedy (my roommate for the trip), Eltrain (my Adepticon Team Tournament teammate), Coldsteel (my other Adepticon Team Tournament teammate), Yermom (Nick Nanavati, winner of the Adepticon singles), Mike Brandt and many others.
@Fxeni - I am looking at bikers since I really enjoyed my MoN bikers of chaos. The only reason I asked was it just seemed like the army was based more off board/objective denial. So I was just wondering if it was more droll to play than the other three you just mentioned. I am looking forward to seeing more bat reps from you! I might being going to LVO (one of my buddies is and invited me along if I can scrape up the funds) but I'll be looking more at the 30k event and I've been kicking around the idea of the friendly or hobby classes
Benamint wrote:@Fxeni - I am looking at bikers since I really enjoyed my MoN bikers of chaos. The only reason I asked was it just seemed like the army was based more off board/objective denial. So I was just wondering if it was more droll to play than the other three you just mentioned. I am looking forward to seeing more bat reps from you! I might being going to LVO (one of my buddies is and invited me along if I can scrape up the funds) but I'll be looking more at the 30k event and I've been kicking around the idea of the friendly or hobby classes
Really, it honestly depends on your play style. I will say, however, that you have to be okay with getting shot the hell up with Green Tide - the other lists I mentioned tend to be faster and more intense, but also have less resiliency. Just do some playtests - but I suspect that if you enjoy MoN bikes, then you'd prolly enjoy Ork bikes too!
Feel free to say hi at the LVO!
jy2 wrote:
Saythings wrote: Did the Doc_G ever send the Stompa?! I must know!!! Haha.
I was following that challenge post from the start and I must know the end to the fairy tale!!! <3
I would assume no. Doc's challenge was if you can win a GT with orks.
grendel083 wrote:The points mix up put an end to the challenge it looks like sadly.
Not quite. Here's what the challenge was:
Build a tourney-legal, pure ork list at 1850pts. Play it in a competitive meta. Win 2/3 times and show me the proof
I really enjoyed this Tournament report are you going to keep trying to make Orks competitive? I would be very interested in seeing your progress on that front.
To try and mitigate the low LD on the tankbustas you could add bosspoles to the units. However, I see you don't take nobz so adding both nobz and the bosspole to the tankbustas will increase the points cost of the unit a fair bit across all 3 squads.
MrFlutterPie wrote: I really enjoyed this Tournament report are you going to keep trying to make Orks competitive? I would be very interested in seeing your progress on that front.
To try and mitigate the low LD on the tankbustas you could add bosspoles to the units. However, I see you don't take nobz so adding both nobz and the bosspole to the tankbustas will increase the points cost of the unit a fair bit across all 3 squads.
Sadly, that doesn't work. Fear still works on ld7, and since it is neither a morale or pinning check, bosspole (and mob rule) don't do anything to help.
MrFlutterPie wrote: I really enjoyed this Tournament report are you going to keep trying to make Orks competitive? I would be very interested in seeing your progress on that front.
To try and mitigate the low LD on the tankbustas you could add bosspoles to the units. However, I see you don't take nobz so adding both nobz and the bosspole to the tankbustas will increase the points cost of the unit a fair bit across all 3 squads.
Sadly, that doesn't work. Fear still works on ld7, and since it is neither a morale or pinning check, bosspole (and mob rule) don't do anything to help.
And yes, I will continue to be playing Orks.
Ah that sucks.
Still happy to hear you are going to keep going with this project
Thanks for the unit analysis.
The KFF seems to be the only really optional thing.
However, my meta has a lot of thunderfire cannons, so I think the KFF would help a lot to protect my warboss, painboy, and big mek within the green tide.
That was a disappointing tale. I was on the edge of my seat all the way till this page, rooting for the orks. After being on Dakka and viewing all these tourneys, especially TOs, seem to feth up or the tourney itself is horribly broken by WAAC players. The guy who said rock em sock em robots earlier in the thread was exactly right imo.
I hope you get your stompa, you earned it. Also, I wasn't surprised except by the Tau matchup. Good general-ship all around.
The first game of W40k was against Orks. I held respect for them ever since. (I lost btw.) So that is why I wasn't surprised by your victories.
Orks at the Renegade GT 2014 - Post-Tournament List Analysis.
Well, after running the list through its paces, I thought I would do a quick breakdown of the units I used, grade them, and give some thoughts on what did (and did not) work.
BIG MEK::
Spoiler:
I was always on the fence with the KFF Big Mek, and after the tournament - I still feel the same way. Let's break him down, bit by bit, because his relics and gear kind are what kind of make him special:
Kustom Force Field: Eh. It was okay. I mainly took the KFF for two reasons:
1. Against armies that ignored cover (but, for example, didn't have blasts), I could ball up the green tide and still get a 5++ followed by the 5+ FNP. In reality, it didn't work out quite that way - though there were several times that the KFF allowed a 5++ save when I wouldn't have gotten one otherwise (for example, the knights).
2. Protecting my vehicles. This, the KFF did well. That 5++ saved my vehicles several times, although it never really made or broke any game. It was merely helpful.
So was the KFF on the Mek work it? Eh, still on the fence on that. It certainly wasn't MANDATORY, though it was useful. If I had had the opportunity to take something else more useful for 50 pts, I probably would have.
Killsaw: This thing was AWESOME. It was fantastic for killing knights, and combo-ed with the Lucky Stikk (for rerolling to hit) it made him a deadly combatant. For this item alone I would consider taking a Big Mek in the future, since a Warboss can't.
Lucky Stikk: A++++++. Do not leave home without one. I cannot tell you how many times the +1 WS to my entire tide came into play. Hitting Knights on 3+? Dreadknights hitting the blob on 4+? Making the warboss WS6 in a challenge? This thing was FANTASTIC. As a bonus, I can reroll to hit, to save, and to wound with my Killsaw-weilding-Big-Mek basically as much as I want? It will never leave my green tide list, ever again.
GRADE: B+
WARBOSS::
Spoiler:
This guy wasn't bad. I took him, basically, for the unlimited turn 2+ WAUGH as a part of the formation. That part was incredibly valuable as a force multiplier, and for that reason alone I'd take the warboss again.
He also wasn't a slouch in CC, either. For a relatively cheap price, this guy has 4 (5 on the charge) str 10 PK attacks, which is awesome for things like Knights, Bikes (or Farsight ).
However, the "Forced to declare challenge or accept challenge" is such a crap mechanic, and I am tired of GW's seemingly endless love for it. It makes him such a liability. Often I found myself putting the warboss in the back, simply because I couldn't afford to lose that endless WAUGH, and I was afraid he would get punked out in a challenge he COULD NOT deny (such as what happened in Game 1 AND 2).
If I could get rid of that ONE stupid rule, this guy would be awesome. As it is, he's merely there as a force multiplier that hopes to avoid challenges at all costs. If the opponent has no valid challengers, then great, but otherwise, this guy hides way, way back.
GRADE: B- (Would be A if the challenge rule was gone)
PAINBOY::
Spoiler:
50 pts for FNP for an entire Green Tide? Are you kidding me? Sold. What else do I need to say?
GRADE: A+++ (Basically Mandatory)
TANKBUSTAS::
Spoiler:
Ever since the new 'dex dropped, I have loved Tankbustas. Initially, when I was figuring out my list, I faced a dilemna: How would I deal with flyers? I could take Traktor Kannons, but the problem that I found in playtesting is that they were basically USELESS unless the opponent took flyers (which many players did not). Skyfire on all targets with str 8 Ap3 just doesn't cut it.
So, I turned to Tankbustas. With 23 of them rolling around, they had a few (very nice) advantages:
1. They all had Melta Bombs with Tankhunter. These guys RUIN vehicles, including Knights.
2. They all had Rokkits at 24" with Tankhunters. At 24", since there are 23 shots, don't underestimate their ability to ruin flyers days. Remember that they ALL get to reroll to pen, and that your opponent has to decide to jink BEFORE he sees how many hits you get. This means these guys are fantastic at air suppression (at least, with low numbers of flyers).
3. It was more bodies! Just enhances the strengths of the green tide.
4. They get a bonus VP for getting solo blood on a vehicle, which is nice (even though it never came into play).
5. Don't forget: Melta Bombs can also be used on Monstrous Creatures! Hitting these guys with str 8 AP 1 weapons is pretty awesome.
However, the Tankbustas also had a few fragility issues:
1. They have a 6+ armor, a 7ld, and no FNP. Their only method of protection is their vehicle, which, if it blows, means these guys die in a hurry.
2. They have serious problems with fear, which, unfortunately, all Knights and Monstrous Creatures have. I cannot tell you how many times I charged a Knight with these guys only to have them hit on a 5+. It's very, very frustrating.
All in all, they weren't bad. They did their job and still killed multiple vehicles, they had decent shooting, and they served their job in killing a few MCs and units (either through shooting or combat). I really wish there was a way to mitigate their low LD, but as far as I'm aware, there isn't. Fear checks aren't affected by mob rule, and adding an IC of some kind isn't really feasible (only a Warboss would increase their LD, and he's busy with the blob).
GRADE: B+
GREEN TIDE::
Spoiler:
I have, ironically, long LOATHED the Green Tide. Throughout 5th and 6th, I found it boring, slow, ineffective, and noncompetitive. This version of green tide typically ran 30+ member mobs which had Kans in the front to offer cover saves, and had no painboy. I was always more of "FAST AND HARD" kind of player - meaning that my preferred playstyle was to get in the opponent's face ASAP with as many threats as possible. It is, as Jy2 calls it, a "Maximum Threat Overload" kind of playstyle.
Enter 7th edition. I saw several potential options in competitiveness. Initially, I considered Blitz Brigade, Bully Boyz, Bikes, and Green Tide - and I scoured the internet looking for thoughts on each of these. Surprisingly (at least to me) there was very little that I could see in the way of Ork players. Very few well known competitive players played ANY Orks, and so battle reports were slim pickings. What I did find, however, was a consensus that Green Tide was quite good.
I was skeptical. How could it be any different? It's basically the same ol' slow list. But then I tried it....
Green Tide is incredibly strong. Basically, nearly all of my problems with it were fixed with the formation.
Slow? You can Waugh every turn.
Klaws can be picked out via challenges? Not with tons of Nobs with Klaws hiding in it.
Lack of resiliency? Painboy + tons of bodies helps with that.
All in all, Green Tide is solid. It is a damn good formation, with a threat of bodies overload that most opponents cannot handle. In addition, it is intimidating to MANY opponents. It is fantastic at taking the board, charging multiple units, and providing board denial.
However, there are some ways that it SHOULD be run, and ways it should NOT be run.
It is important to keep the green tide's cost down. A lot of people run max klaws, tons of 'eavy armor, with 200+ bodies. This is overdoing it, because you are taking points away from your support units, which are necessary.
Personally, I feel around 8 Klaws (that includes ICs) is about right. That's 6 nobs, a Big Mek, and a Warboss. I also didn't run any 'eavy armor (though, a single unit of 10 or 20 might be useful). The minimum of 100 bodies - and I felt that was about right. Anymore then that, and I start losing vital support units.
Remember: The green tide is fantastic at being a threat at absorbing fire, but it alone will not win you a game. You need units to suppress enemy shooters or flyers, forcing them to jink (Tankbustas). You need a way to deal with lack of mobility (Deffkoptas). You need a way to kill things at range (Kustom Mega Kannons). Etc. These units are JUST AS IMPORTANT as the Green tide, and are necessary to win you games.
The main issue I have with the green tide is that it is slow. Really, really slow. Even with the WAUGH, the unit isn't moving a lot per turn. Granted, once the charging starts, the unit really picks up speed, but it can usually be a long game turn (or three, or five) before you hit the enemy lines. So you need to be ok with taking punches, and then giving your own long, slow, powerful counterpunch. That's how the Green Tide plays.
In summary, it's a good formation. Its main weakness is that it's slow, and its very easy to spend too many points into it. Aside from that, it will overwhelm a LOT of opponents, and has the capacity to win you nearly every game - if you play it right. I have yet to play a game that I thought I couldn't win with Green Tide - and moreover, the main reason I lost Game 1 was because of dice, not because of the Green Tide.
GRADE: A
GROTS::
Spoiler:
There really seems to be a lot of dislike on these forums for grots. People seem to think that with 7ed and everything being scoring, gretchin have no place in the meta anymore. I disagree. I feel like they fulfill the same roll as always: Cheap screeners, and inexpensive backfield objective holders.
I ran mine dirt cheap: 35 points for 11 bodies. And....they did their job. They were only attacked in one game (Game 1) because my list forces the opponent to deal with the Green Tide. Every shot taken at the Gretchin is a shot not taken at the Tide - which works for me. As a result, the only time the Gretchin died was in Game 1 when the Green Tide was finally wiped out.
Some people would argue for taking a naked unit of boys over gretchin. Again, I disagree. Gretchin may be much weaker, but the difference between the efficiency of the gretchin and a unit of 10 boys is negligible to me. First of all, both units have the same ld (7) - but for an extra 5 points the Gretchin can reroll it, unlike the boys (unless you take a nob and a BP, which just adds MORE points). The Gretchin unit is easier to kill, but they're also cheaper for the cost. It would cost you 66 points to get 11 Boy bodies, while you get 11 Gretchin bodies for 35 pts - nearly half the cost.
The only time I've found my gretchin dying, it was to something that would have ruined a boys unit too. Knights? Kills both. Dreadknight? Kills both. Wave Serpent? Kills both. My gretchin are NEVER exposed to things like a tactical squad, where a Boy squad would make the difference. As a result, I find the Gretchin do their job just fine. They're cheap, they're effective, and they're objective secured. Just don't expect them do things worth more then their 35 point value, and you won't be dissapointed.
GRADE: B
DEFFKOPTAS::
Spoiler:
Oh Deffkoptas - how the mighty have fallen.
I loved Deffkoptas in 5ed. If you went first, you could get a first turn charge with them on vehicles (due to how the scout rule used to work), which often resulted in a vehicle kill. That's really all they were that good for, though.
Now with that rule gone, I have a tough time finding a place for Deffkoptas in my list. I took them for one reason, and one reason alone for Renegade: The Maelstrom Missions.
See, as mentioned before, the Green Tide isn't that fast. Holding my own backfield is easy, but getting to the opponent's objectives or table edge (which is relevant for 1/3rd of Maelstrom Missions at Renegade) can be a problem.
My solution to this was the Deffkopta. As a jetbike, it can move 12", and then turbo boost another 24" to pull a last second hold on an opponent's objective or put a scoring unit in his deployment zone. As a result, the Deffkoptas basically had one job: Sit out of line of sight, and when I rolled 1 of the 2 relevant Maelstrom results, run out, do their job, and die.
That's all they were, though: Sacrificial Maelstrom Points. They never did anything other then that. A BS2 twin-linked Rokkit for 35 pts or so isn't a good deal. It only has two wounds and a 4+ armor/jink, so it dies easily, and you have to pay a crazy premium to give them a powerklaw which only makes them -moderately- useful in close combat. As a result, they're fragile, they're expensive, they're not effective in CC (It couldn't even kill an Ethereal in game 3!), and they're easy KP for the opponent. Their only advantage is their speed.
Had it not been for Maelstrom, I would not have run them. They just don't contribute anything to the game - I'd much rather have something else for the cost, like more Tankbustas or support units. However, for the Maelstrom points at Renegade, they did their job - and that's all I ever really expected of them.
GRADE: C
BIG TRAKKS::
Spoiler:
I took Big Trakks because I wanted a compromise between the inexpensiveness of Trukks, with the resiliency of a battlewagon.
At armor 12/11/10 and 3 HP, these guys are pretty good for their cost. They come with a rule called "Rumbler", which allows them to reroll dangerous terrain if they moved combat speed - kind of like a poor man's ram. With that (and some careful movement) you don't really need to buy a ram or deffolla. Better, they can be given Boarding Planks for 5 pts - totally worth the cost!
They come with 2 big shootas standard. You can pay points (and potentially some transport capacity) to give them other weapons too. I tried them initially with big lobbas - which are str 6 AP 4 barrage - but I found they didn't really pay out, and I stuck with the standard loadout. 2 big shootas may not be much, but I thought with 18 shots from a squadron of three it might help against FMCs. However, since I didn't play any, that theory remains untested.
So how did they perform? Better then a Trukk, and Worse then a Battlewagon - for a price that's Better then the Trukk, and Worse then the Battlewagon. I imagine there is a way to increase the deadliness of these vehicles, but none of the options really struck a chord with me.
They survived quite a bit more firepower then I thought they would, and to be quite honest, they were mostly penned by things that would pen a battlewagon anyways (like meltas, for example). They're pretty good transports for a relatively cheap price. I wish deffrollas were still feasible, but alas, they got nerfed into oblivion with the 7ed Ork Dex.
All in all, a decent transport. Not great, not awful, but somewhere in between. They were basically a semi-resilient mobile box that didn't kill much.
GRADE: B
KUSTOM MEGA KANNONS::
Spoiler:
There was a lot of hooplah (hooplah is a fun word. Say it to yourself. Hooplah.) over the new Mek Gunz that came out with the new Ork Dex.
A lot of people lost their minds over how good the Traktor Kannons are. Others were impressed with the cheap price of regular Kannons and Lobbas.
Me? Kustom Mega Kannons allllll the way.
These bad boys are simply FANTASTIC. They have a good range of 36", are str 8 for instant death, Ap2, blast to help avoid crappy ork shooting - This kind of shooting is like a pipe dream to me that I wanted from my 5ed dex.
Take 5 of em with 5 ammo runts. Always. The kannons have gets hot!, but here's a neat little trick: If you ever roll a 1 on the get's hot!, you can use an ammo runt to reroll it - and make your gun twin-linked too! It basically entirely mitigates the Gets Hot! problem from the guns, and makes them INCREDIBLY reliable.
I could go on and on and on about how MUCH I LOVE Kustom Mega Kannons, but I think I will try and sum it up with some absolutely 100% true kills that resulted from my Kustom Mega Kannons (either in playtesting or in the Renegade):
In game 1 of the renegade, in 1 shooting phase, they wiped out the 5 GK terminators and the GK Libby attached - entirely by themselves. Again, that's in ONE TURN OF SHOOTING.
They killed somewhere around 10 bikes in game 2 of the renegade.
They killed two riptides and 3 suits in game 3 of the renegade.
In a playtest game, they killed 8 SM Terminators and an attached Chapter Master (no Shield eternal) in ONE TURN!
They have murdered countless Dreadknights.
And, in one game, they shot at 5 paladins and Draigo - and killed everything except for one of the Paladins in ONE TURN.
Take them. They are fantastic - even if only for scaring the out of your opponent who will want to stay the feth away.
Liking the analysis, and the whole thread in general, thanks for taking the time to catalog it all
Any thoughts on making the Tide Fearless? A Big Boss Pole on the Warboss wouldn't have cost much, people in my groups have started to pile pinning tests onto my poor boys to force Mob checks, doesn't look like you had much of that going on but it can start to pile up casualties.
I often run stormboyz. The guyz have 22-27 charge range on waaagh! And they're yet to disappoint me and have payed off in every game i play so far. I take a unit of 8-11 with pk-bp nob so they're around 130 pts per squad.
The only problem is they do need this waaagh so don't always synchronise with regular footsloggas that i play. However, with GT you have constant WAAAGH! So, if i ran a greentide, i'd consider a ~10 strong squad of stormboyz. 1-st turn - roll behind blos/cover, 2-d turn can charge across the whole board. A bunch of s4 attackd and a pk nob can clear out one threat and frighten off the enemy from going your way. Besides, with such range they can simultaniously threaten the enemy backlines and protect yours.
Benamint wrote:@Fxeni - I am looking at bikers since I really enjoyed my MoN bikers of chaos. The only reason I asked was it just seemed like the army was based more off board/objective denial. So I was just wondering if it was more droll to play than the other three you just mentioned. I am looking forward to seeing more bat reps from you! I might being going to LVO (one of my buddies is and invited me along if I can scrape up the funds) but I'll be looking more at the 30k event and I've been kicking around the idea of the friendly or hobby classes
Really, it honestly depends on your play style. I will say, however, that you have to be okay with getting shot the hell up with Green Tide - the other lists I mentioned tend to be faster and more intense, but also have less resiliency. Just do some playtests - but I suspect that if you enjoy MoN bikes, then you'd prolly enjoy Ork bikes too!
Feel free to say hi at the LVO!
jy2 wrote:
Saythings wrote: Did the Doc_G ever send the Stompa?! I must know!!! Haha.
I was following that challenge post from the start and I must know the end to the fairy tale!!! <3
I would assume no. Doc's challenge was if you can win a GT with orks.
grendel083 wrote:The points mix up put an end to the challenge it looks like sadly.
Not quite. Here's what the challenge was:
Build a tourney-legal, pure ork list at 1850pts. Play it in a competitive meta. Win 2/3 times and show me the proof
That's how I figured it. Followed all criteria on the challenge. It's a shame Fxeni got the short end of the stick in the GT. I was hoping he'd at least get rewarded with the Doc_G's challenge. Boo!
wonderful batreps! i don't understand how can you get all of those things with the ghazgghkull detachment as your primary! can you explain what is taken from? thank you
I've watched your reports since the first, really good quality and format, really sorry to hera about the muck up at the end.
Fire Angel wrote: wonderful batreps! i don't understand how can you get all of those things with the ghazgghkull detachment as your primary! can you explain what is taken from? thank you
In 7th ed you can take multiple detachments. In this case, he's actually just taken the standard CAD from the main codex and then the Green Tide formation from Ghazzy's book. Most Green Tide lists do this. It comes out something similar to the below:
Main CAD:
HQ - Painboy (gives the entire tide a 5+ FnP)
HQ - Weirdboy lvl2 (can either be used to summon Daemons or give buffs to the entire tide)
Troop - 10 Grots + Runterand (only here to keep the points down)
Troop - 10 Grots + Runterand (only here to keep the points down)
As the above will unlock the remainder of the standard CAD options, you can fill up in here with KMKs, Tankbusters, Manz, Dakkajets, Deffkoptas or whatever else you feel you may require. Then you have the other half of the armie:
FORMATION - 10 units of boys and a Warboss
-- One of the main ideas is to give about 6 or 7 nobs PKs to act as the "hidden PK" element. You'll typically want to keep the Warboss away from CC as he HAS to challenge or accept challenges. One of the main advantages though is that if you give him Da Big Bosspole, then the entire mob gains Fearless (also available via the Mad Doc). It's arguable that it isn't completely required, but for the points and for the benifit, it's something I would want.
The idea with the army is that you can block out most of the field. If your opponent comes in on Turn 2 with fliers, then they're not going to have much space to land as the entire tide should be covering the front field. Mek Guns or Lootas can cover the backfield. And Tankbusters or Deffkoptas can cover the opponent's side. Since the sheer size of the tide will mean that you can get most objectives, you want to have the Deffkoptas as mobile objective capturers, depending on the game.
The main tide typically averages out on 1120 points (if you give 30 boys Eavy Armor). I hope this explanation helps!
many thanks man the fact that i don't understand, is that in order to have all of those things (3 elites,3 heavy supports etc...) you have to have the standard CAD be your first one and of course in this particular case the big mek or the painboy either, has to be the warlord! but if you want the waaagh bonus each turn you have to make the warboos your warlord so... i don't understand how is this done /:
Fire Angel wrote: many thanks man the fact that i don't understand, is that in order to have all of those things (3 elites,3 heavy supports etc...) you have to have the standard CAD be your first one and of course in this particular case the big mek or the painboy either, has to be the warlord! but if you want the waaagh bonus each turn you have to make the warboos your warlord so... i don't understand how is this done /:
The standard CAD doesn't require that your Warlord come from that detachment. It just requires the 1 HQ, 2 troops thing. That's all.
The only limitation on warlords is that they cannot be from an ALLIED detachment. That's a specific detachment. I'm taking a Combined Arms Detachment along with a formation, and the formation contains my warlord.
thank you! now i understand but why didn't you take another ghazghkull formation in order to take the special kusto force field on your mek in order to get a 4+ cover save? and what about the special boss pole on your warlord? (except for the obvious loss of da luacky stikk)
koooaei wrote: I often run stormboyz. The guyz have 22-27 charge range on waaagh! And they're yet to disappoint me and have payed off in every game i play so far. I take a unit of 8-11 with pk-bp nob so they're around 130 pts per squad.
The only problem is they do need this waaagh so don't always synchronise with regular footsloggas that i play. However, with GT you have constant WAAAGH! So, if i ran a greentide, i'd consider a ~10 strong squad of stormboyz. 1-st turn - roll behind blos/cover, 2-d turn can charge across the whole board. A bunch of s4 attackd and a pk nob can clear out one threat and frighten off the enemy from going your way. Besides, with such range they can simultaniously threaten the enemy backlines and protect yours.
I've been eyeballing the stormboyz lately. Glad to hear they are going well, think I might just pick some up.
Fire Angel wrote:many thanks man the fact that i don't understand, is that in order to have all of those things (3 elites,3 heavy supports etc...) you have to have the standard CAD be your first one and of course in this particular case the big mek or the painboy either, has to be the warlord! but if you want the waaagh bonus each turn you have to make the warboos your warlord so... i don't understand how is this done /:
Fire Angel wrote:many thanks man the fact that i don't understand, is that in order to have all of those things (3 elites,3 heavy supports etc...) you have to have the standard CAD be your first one and of course in this particular case the big mek or the painboy either, has to be the warlord! but if you want the waaagh bonus each turn you have to make the warboos your warlord so... i don't understand how is this done /:
Fire Angel wrote:thank you! now i understand but why didn't you take another ghazghkull formation in order to take the special kusto force field on your mek in order to get a 4+ cover save? and what about the special boss pole on your warlord? (except for the obvious loss of da luacky stikk)
I like the lucky stikk more then the 4++ since the stikk affects the whole mob, while the 4++ only affects things within 6". Not really worth the trade for me.
col_impact wrote:The list of the OP has 1 too many HQ choices in it, or am I missing something?
1 from formation (green tide)
2 from combined arms detachment
Really enjoyed reading these battle reports. Fxeni (or anyone with experience) what do you think of running 90 stormboys instead of the green tide? Just wondering the drawbacks?
Fire Angel wrote:many thanks man the fact that i don't understand, is that in order to have all of those things (3 elites,3 heavy supports etc...) you have to have the standard CAD be your first one and of course in this particular case the big mek or the painboy either, has to be the warlord! but if you want the waaagh bonus each turn you have to make the warboos your warlord so... i don't understand how is this done /:
Fire Angel wrote:many thanks man the fact that i don't understand, is that in order to have all of those things (3 elites,3 heavy supports etc...) you have to have the standard CAD be your first one and of course in this particular case the big mek or the painboy either, has to be the warlord! but if you want the waaagh bonus each turn you have to make the warboos your warlord so... i don't understand how is this done /:
Fire Angel wrote:thank you! now i understand but why didn't you take another ghazghkull formation in order to take the special kusto force field on your mek in order to get a 4+ cover save? and what about the special boss pole on your warlord? (except for the obvious loss of da luacky stikk)
I like the lucky stikk more then the 4++ since the stikk affects the whole mob, while the 4++ only affects things within 6". Not really worth the trade for me.
col_impact wrote:The list of the OP has 1 too many HQ choices in it, or am I missing something?
1 from formation (green tide)
2 from combined arms detachment
I have been building a green tide list myself.
I have a few questions for you.
If you hate that your warlord has to accept and issue challenges then dont make the green tide warboss your warlord.
Instead of taking taking a big mek in the cad take another warboss and a 15 point regular mek with a killsaw. This allows you to have a warboss to call waaagh albeit only once, however you still keep ur killsaw and not deal with that silly rule.
Secondly while I love the lucky stick. I feel the warboss in the cad who is now your warlord is better suited for da finkin cap for a near garaunteed chance at infiltrate. Two Rerollable strategic traits is a godsend. Allowing me to infiltrate the green tide, painboy, and mek or 10 man tankbustas which now can sit within 18in of whichever target it wants to destroy. If you want more tankbustas you can get rid of the stormboys for another squad however I tend to like the extra mobility I gain from 10 bikers and 16 Storm Boyz
This is my list for 1850
Green tide -
Warboss, big boss pole, pk, eavy armour
30 eavy armour boys w 3x nob w pk 10 boyz w 1x nob w pk 60 boyz w 1x nob w big choppa (to eat challenge)
Cad-
Painboy
Warboss, warbike, da finkin cap, pk 9x war bikers, nob w pk
16 x Stormboyz, nob w pk
10x tankbustas
10x Gretchen w runt herder
10x Gretchen w runt herder
gungo wrote: I have been building a green tide list myself.
I have a few questions for you.
If you hate that your warlord has to accept and issue challenges then dont make the green tide warboss your warlord.
Instead of taking taking a big mek in the cad take another warboss and a 15 point regular mek with a killsaw. This allows you to have a warboss to call waaagh albeit only once, however you still keep ur killsaw and not deal with that silly rule.
Secondly while I love the lucky stick. I feel the warboss in the cad who is now your warlord is better suited for da finkin cap for a near garaunteed chance at infiltrate. Two Rerollable strategic traits is a godsend.
Infiltrating such a unit is not going to be as benefical as it might seem. More often than not you are just getting 6' closer 1-st turn as the enemy knows your traits before deployment.
2 WT with reroll is around 60% of getting infiltrate.
WAAAGHING every turn is just too good to forego.
And WS5 for the tide is important. As soon as you try GT, you'll notice that the guyz ain't more killy than a unit of 20-30 boyz + a couple extra pk. Furthermore, you're doing disoriented charges most of the time, so -1 attack and str.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW, what do you guyz think about Supa Cybork for a Warboss? EW can help out. But 50 pts for just EW is quite expensive and thus situational. Though, it's gona save your life against artillery.
I kinda agree 50 points is a lot to pay for ew on a t5 character with 4+ save and 2+ LOS. Other then manticore what artillery are you worried about sniping ur warlord?
In the above report the guy had good luck with infiltrate but I can see your point on it not being that useful or reliable.
However he also had good luck with the lvl2 weirdboy. It can provide your greentide unit considerable psychic protection and if you take santic and get lucky w hammer hand significantly helps ur units damage potential. However my issue with it is throwing all my eggs in one basket (the green tide) may not be the best idea.
Thanks for the feed back as I still have another 30 boys to paint. I am glad the green tide works well. I miss the good old fashion assaulty swarm armies from 2-3 edition.
Well, i was talking about manticores and orbital bombardment - they're 1/3 chance to hit before they get twin-linked. A lucky manticore shot (d3 shots) can eraze your warboss turn 1 taking out an every turn Waaagh and fearless. However, i think that it can be partially mitigated by deployment. Just asked bout thoughts on supa-kybork.
Supa kybork won't help against wiverns unfortunately. They're a nightmare to any infantry.
Wyverns and a lot of blast weapons become a lot less of an issue with eavy armor especially with fnp. Orbital bombardment is 1 shot and you might be able to Los. However there is nothing stopping a manticore from tearing apart a green tide except for void shield generator which for the price of a cybork id still take the vsg.
Well, I chose if you must know.
This one has a hand painted mascot.... the theme of my 8000 points of Orks... The Arkansas Razorback. This one stays with me.
doktor_g wrote: Well, I chose if you must know.
This one has a hand painted mascot.... the theme of my 8000 points of Orks... The Arkansas Razorback. This one stays with me.
This bat rep has so many views and pages! I think people like orks seriously though doctor_g it was incredibly cool of you. Really makes me want to scramble my new ork army to go to the LVO with me. I won't be in the GT or anything but just to get pick up games and say hi to you guys!
Best batrep thread in long time! Probably because it was an underdog tale, and because such a great challenge was made, accepted, met and upheld! Great job man! Good on DokG for his generosity!
Wow, thats a lot of Boyz. Although I'm surprised you put them in such small, fragile mobs of 10 rather than going for the full hordes of 20.
See jy2, your Lictor list should go to a tournament!
)!
)
, insta-killing my warlord. Holy crap!
) I do a couple wounds to the tide, and that's about it.
