In the ravaged wasteland left after the nuclear holocaust of Judgment Day, the Human Resistance, led by the legendary John Connor, is locked in a desperate conflict against Skynet’s pitiless machines.
Who will ultimately survive in The War Against the Machines?
Pre-Order Now! Ships Early June!
Contents:
Full-colour rulebook: 128 pages
Exclusive metal Kyle Reese model
10 Terminator Endoskeletons
5 Terminator Crawlers
16 Resistance Soldiers
Quickstart rules
Card scenery and tokens
Double-sided gaming mat
Rules reference sheet
13 colour-coded dice
Fate die
GBP 70.00 / USD 112.00
Spoiler:
Full Wargames System!
The War Against the Machines opens up a whole world of Terminator Genisys wargaming.
The Endoskeletons and Human Restistance fighters in the main set will plunge you straight into the desperate battle for survival - but this is just the start.
• Advanced Rules covering commanders, different weapons, vehicles, transports and even VTOLs such as Hunter-Killer Gunships.
• Battle Scenarios - a matrix of 36 balanced games.
• Force Lists. Statlines and special rules for all models and weapons of the Human Resistance and Skynet’s Machines.
• Narrative Scenarios - recreating the events of the War Against the Machines.
More to Come...
Over the coming months, we'll be releasing lots more for Terminator Genisys, including:
• Special character models of all the main characters.
• Reinforcement sets to expand your forces.
• Command and special weapon models for the Endoskeletons.
Saw this over on Beasts of War and didn't see a thread here yet...
January 2, 2015 in Featured, SciFi, The Terminator by brennon
So we had a look at the teaser trailer for the movie not long ago and speculated as to the future of the miniatures game for us to play out the battles against Skynet on the tabletop. Well, it looks like that might become a reality this year…
Well there’s already a few clues to go on that’s for sure. The first is the little River Horse stamp in the corner. This means we’ve got the mind of Alessio Cavatore behind this for sure. Away from that the game seems centred on the Terminator Genisys film that’s coming out so it’s probably going to develop some of the big military engagements we see in that film. With Cavatore at the helm we could potentially see his trademark ‘easy to learn, hard to master’ rules set being a thing as well. It will be interesting to see how this one develops!
Not much to go on yet, but as there seem to be a miniatures range associated to it I could be all over it... Being a Fox IP and given the AvP kickstarter delays due to the laborious approval process, I suspect 'Summer 2015' may become 'Summer 2016' My bad - this is apparently a Paramount/Sundance IP...
Still who wouldn't want an army of T-800s stomping over human skulls (oh wait - GW have both of those..)
I'll be back (with more updates as they come in...)
We are very excited to announce that Warlord Games will be the exclusive distributor for the forthcoming Terminator Genisys Miniatures Game.
Produced by River Horse and written by Bolt Action author Alessio Cavatore, it will be a 28mm skirmish game pitting the Human Resistance led by John Connor against the Machines of Skynet.
The boxed set – War Against the Machines – is due for release in the Summer to coincide with the new movie...
The boxed starter game will be 10 terminators versus 16 humans plus human hero.
Models are hard plastic, done by renedra, they only showed the terminators, they look a little static but were decent quality.
Heroes for both sides will likely be resin.
Besides the starter box, there will be hero clampacks and boxed additional plastic forces, with larger models such as vehicles coming later.
The game used poly dice, d4, 8, 12 and 20's, plus another dice he called a 'fate dice' (custom D6) to determine activation order. He designed bolt Action so think of a variation on that sort of turn mechanism.
The boxed set – War Against the Machines – is due for release in the Summer to coincide with the new movie…
Unfortunately, due to IP restrictions, the images shown on the Google Hangout cannot be previewed elsewhere at this time:
warzan said: On January 21, 2015
Sorry guys this was a live one only.
Their contract with FOX stipulates it can’t be viewable after because of imagery we were able to show live.
They will let us know when we can set it public again
Not much to go on yet, but as there seem to be a miniatures range associated to it I could be all over it... Being a Fox IP and given the AvP kickstarter delays due to the laborious approval process, I suspect 'Summer 2015' may become 'Summer 2016'
Still who wouldn't want an army of T-800s stomping over human skulls (oh wait - GW have both of those..)
I'll be back (with more updates as they come in...)
Yes Necrons are cool. You have something like this...
But then I think, Prodos have managed to do this from AvP..and how awesome the miniatures look..
And I think what might be possible with this!
Even with just the license this has already become my 'most anticipated KS of 2015', closely behind the Conan game. I've now placed myself in the position of being massively disappointed if it isn't perfect!
Paramount and Skydance productions have the rights to Terminator Genisys not Fox. Could be interesting but never really struck me as a tabletop/board game depends on what's in the new film I guess.
Problem is that their is a lot of worry in the movie community that this movie may be a bomb! I hope not cuz I love the universe and damn who doesn't love the flash forward scenes in the previous flicks of hundreds of skellie termies marching into combat! I just hope it doesn't ruin it for a possible cross over game :(
We still don't know what scale and what quality the miniatures will be. Will they be pre-painted mush like Heroclix? Will they be little more than board game markers? Will they be wasted talent on cheap materals like Sedition Wars and Escape?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
John D Law wrote: Problem is that their is a lot of worry in the movie community that this movie may be a bomb! I hope not cuz I love the universe and damn who doesn't love the flash forward scenes in the previous flicks of hundreds of skellie termies marching into combat! I just hope it doesn't ruin it for a possible cross over game :(
Movie bombing or not, the Terminator franchise is still rather beloved. Aliens movies being rather poor past 2 didn't kill people's desire for the franchise.
Nice spot Ruglud I had read those comments but didn't notice the name - and not sure if that is a photo of Alessio, or of Jean Reno from the movie Leon(?!)
Glad in a way that this isn't going to be KS, I forget what it's like seeing a preview for something and it not consisting of being a concept sketch on the back of a napkin or having to wait 2 years for the game to be released.
Makes absolutely sense though as I guess this will be released to tie in with the launch of the movie, and not when it's being shown as a repeat on TV!
To be fair I'd be happy if prodos are casting the Miniatures. they seem to have had the AVP ones ready for some time now.
Less happy if they are running the Kickstarter IP managment and customer interaction...
Vertrucio wrote: Bolt action is a good basic game that's full of holes though. Same for dust. No follow through design for him and his company.
Bolt Action? So, other than the constantly updated FAQ and errata, the release of new supplements and campaign books every few months, the loads of free content that keeps being released, and the fact that Alessio himself interacts with the playerbase on the Facebook group, yeah, you're right, no follow through.
Hahah! I knew people would jump on the bolt action defense. But you should probably do your own searching, the problems are out there and there are numerous topics about them all over the place in the very same forums you guys say are filled with positives.
Holes such as: Many units don't, or until recently, didn't have a reason to take them as one of the other experience levels. MMGs having little to no gameplay use due to weak rules. Overall balance issues. Off the wall national rules. Rally order being useless. Weak tank/vehicle rules. Etc.
But, notice how I originally said Bolt Action is, "a good game..."?
Just because a game has problems and holes, doesn't mean it can't be good at its core. Likewise, just because a game is good, doesn't mean you blindly ignore the problems and let lazy design slide.
That FAQ and Errata wouldn't have been needed as much had they tried a little bit harder to think through, and the fact that it's actually taken quite some time before they fixed other errors that were identified as problem from the very start.
So I'm hoping that games like this, and Gates of Antares don't suffer the same drive by design where the designer might spit out a pretty good core system, but fail to extrapolate into a solid game without the need for erratas to core systems. After all, Loka was designed by the same group...
Vertrucio - think it's fair to say that you hold the bar quite high for game mechanics judging from some of your comments in other sections of the forum. Not to absolve Bolt Action from criticism but I don't think it's as bad as you make it out to be, or that Terminator is somehow doomed because of the design team. Let's remember, a team that has massive experience in Alessio's hands from his GW days through to Mantic, Warlord and all of the other stuff in-between. That's going to be a selling point for a lot of people.
To be fair I'd be happy if prodos are casting the Miniatures. they seem to have had the AVP ones ready for some time now.
Less happy if they are running the Kickstarter IP managment and customer interaction...
Panic...
Despite everything else that has happened with AvP hitting speed-bumps along the way, if nothing else the miniatures look absolutely stunning. Again, this game would be a sure sell for me if they got to even 75% as good (although that doesn't include 19mm scale )
Have you ever looked at a game of chess being played and thought "What this game needs is a 'critical failure' rule"? No? Because apparently Alessio did.
Have you ever looked at a game of chess being played and thought "What this game needs is a 'critical failure' rule"? No? Because apparently Alessio did.
Same concept as Nightmare Chess and Battle Chess and all the other variations of chess. There's a whole subgroup of chess enthusiasts who love weird takes on chess; Loka was just filling one of the market niches.
I wonder who is making the figures. I suppose that it is not Hasbro, as they would probably do the rules in house. I would guess that the license would be too expensive for Mantic or Warlord. It would also conflict with the sales of their existing future space games. It would be really cool if it were Wargames Factory, as that would mean inexpensive plastics.
Yes although Prodos are a relatively small company, and yet managed to get the AvP license from Fox.
My top bet would probably have been Mantic (Alessio has worked with them, and Ronnie has stated several times that he wants a big license), although I'm not sure if they are over-worked with other projects and if they had been working on this license I'm sure we would have read some hints about it by now.
Might it be Warlord? They have at least two active resources for plastics:
1. Their own secret in-house plastics - the T-34/85, Sd.Kfz 251/1, Universal Carrier, and Panzer IV F/G/H; as well as the last few Bolt Action infantry releases, US Marines and Japanese at least, and I believe the Caesarian Roman plastics, have all been manufactured either in-house or via a separate contractor that is NOT Renedra
2. Italeri partnership. Through this partnership Warlord and Italeri have released a Sherman, Cromwell, Panther tanks, and Puma recce vehicle.
3. Renedra - though Warlord hasn't made a kit through Renedra in about two years, so not really any more.
We are very excited to announce that Warlord Games will be the exclusive distributor for the forthcoming Terminator Genisys Miniatures Game.
Produced by River Horse and written by Bolt Action author Alessio Cavatore, it will be a 28mm skirmish game pitting the Human Resistance led by John Connor against the Machines of Skynet.
The boxed set – War Against the Machines – is due for release in the Summer to coincide with the new movie…
Question: What scale? Alessio Cavatore: they are going to be 'heroic' 28mmm... so more like a bit over 30 really!
Q: i had heard Mantic games were looking at an other IP a while back after Mars attacks. Is this it or purely River Horse? AC: Purely River Horse production. Distribution by...
Q: What scale is it going to be? Skirmish I assume? AC: Skirmish indeed. Single models moving individually, not in units. At least in Year 1... there are three films planned...
Alessio Cavatore: And if the film/game go well... we'll probably go mass battle in Year 2! No crowdfunding = baby steps!
Q: Alessio Cavatore, you are well known for your rules mechanics and clean writing style however are River Horse going to publish only the game or are you also the models manufacturer. Or is it more of a partnership much like Osprey & Northstar? AC: River Horse will take care of the production. Another company (still to be announced...) will take care of sales/distribution.
Q: With there be a Big Starter box set??? AC: Yes, there's gonna ba a starter set!
Q: Alessio - do you know (rough month) when the starter set will be on sale in the UK? AC: we're aiming for July (film release...).
Q: 28 mm standard? this would be something i'd be interested in if so AC: yes, heroic 28mm, so a little taller (Arnie is a tall guy after all!)
Automatically Appended Next Post: SO. Let's consider the quality of the last plastic kit Warlord has released (NOT in conjunction with Renedra or Italeri):
Panzer IV F/G/H - I had the pleasure of assembling three of these in the last week. Probably one of my favorite plastic kits I have ever assembled.
I also have four of the Sd.Kfz 251/1's and those were nice and easy to assemble with crisp details.
I have also assembled a British Universal Carrier and that was very easy as well, my only complaint was soft detail on the crew models.
How has everyone's experience been with Warlord's in-house plastics?
Soviet T-34/85
Sd.Kfz 251/1
Universal Carrier
Panzer IV F/G/H
US Marines infantry
Japanese infantry
Caesarian Romans
..any more? I'd have to check - are the Blitzkrieg Germans pressed by Renedra?
The new plastic upcoming Panzergrenadiers will most likely be their in-house plastics as well.
Alex C wrote: Is Warlord actually making the minis though?
All I've seen is that they are distributing.
To be fair we know very little. It would not make much sense to ignore Warlord's early-2000-GW-era level of metal and plastics manufacturing.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Doug Craig - I'm so excited Alessio! Question, will Warlord be doing the models too? Their recent in-house plastics (Panzer IV, Universal Carrier, Japanese, USMC infantry) have been excellent!
Alessio Cavatore - Can't quite answer that one yet... More detail later...
Great rules-writer on board, now a great distributor. That's two down, next up miniature sculptors and materials..
If this is coming out alongside the film (which is scheduled for July release) perhaps the miniature design and whatnot are relatively far along the development line, and we probably just haven't seen them because they would give away what is in the film?
Yeah, I'm thinking spoilers are keeping miniature previews at bay.
Still, I don't see the harm in showing off T-800's and the Connors. We're all familiar with those and it's likely what most of us are chiefly interested in.
It just got announced. Not being a Kickstarter I would suspect we'll get little teasers every week or two for a few months until a few months before launch in July-ish.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
adamsouza wrote: I'm excited about the movie, and the minaitures game will be icing on the cake.
Lets just hope they don't make the miniatures game some random scale.
Confirmed as 28mm, confirmed as a skirmish game to go with the first movie, confirmed that if the film does well it will move to mass battles for follow up films. (new Terminator films planned as new trilogy)
I sitll have the 25mm metal ones from Leading Edge, released back after Terminator 2. They are sculpted well, but I can't get myself to do anything with them, because of the scale.
Nah, the Future War sequences in Terminator 2 proved that sci fi battles of the future are fought on a 6x4 tabletop!
... I'd like to show proof in the form of the future war sequence from T2 but I cannot find a youtube video that is just that (without being edited with crap music or bits of T3 edited in for some reason)
I know for my 15mm moderns, my insurgents could field 4-5 pickup truck based technicals, and a couple bigger trucks with AA type auto-cannon on them, and my US forces could field a Stryker platoon, a hummer mounted recon platoon, and a tank section, along with appropriate amounts of infantry and other supporting elements for both sides.
Trying to do that in 28mm would have been VERY hard on the wallet, and impossible to get onto a 4x6 urban terrain board (for which I had well over 30 15mm buildings).
Although, at the same time I would love some beautifully sculpted 28mm terminators, and it would be really cool for the detail on some battle-damaged T-800s or morphing T-1000 etc.
Thinking about this actually, I'm really intrigued by what rule mechanics they can come up with for T-800 vs. T-1000 combat. And, disappointed if there isn't a 'witty one-liner' special move that can be used prior to the destruction of something by a T-800
Secondly, all of your arguments basically broke down to fielding more models = better, which is not true.
Thirdly, Flames Of War being popular, is beyond me. I tried playing it. The models are too small for me to enjoy painting, and the troop stats are too abstrated for my taste. It's the equivalent of 40K units being run entirely by their LD value and USRs.
Fourthly, this has nothing to do with the Terminator Tabletop Game, which I've been waiting for 20+ years and is in 28mm heroic scale.
Secondly, all of your arguments basically broke down to fielding more models = better, which is not true.
No, that was not my argument at all. My argument was that to field realistically sized units at reinforced platoon to company level, including their support elements, 15mm is a lot better than 28mm if you want an affordable force which can be played on a normal sized table. There was nothing about more models = better, there was better scale distances with decent sized forces are more achievable with 15mm when you get to the size game I described.
Automatically Appended Next Post: To apply this to the Terminator game, fielding two tracked HKs with a flying HK in support and a couple squads of man sized terminators against a reinforced platoon of humans (with their technicals and crew served weapons) would work a lot better in 15mm than in 28mm. It would be more affordable, and a normal sized table would not be overly crowded and there would be room to maneuver and have more realistic weapon ranges.
But if you are running just a squad or two of humans with one vehicle and a smaller number of machines, 28mm works well.
CptJake wrote: Automatically Appended Next Post: To apply this to the Terminator game, fielding two tracked HKs with a flying HK in support and a couple squads of man sized terminators against a reinforced platoon of humans (with their technicals and crew served weapons) would work a lot better in 15mm than in 28mm. It would be more affordable, and a normal sized table would not be overly crowded and there would be room to maneuver and have more realistic weapon ranges.
But if you are running just a squad or two of humans with one vehicle and a smaller number of machines, 28mm works well.
Other than the main movie opening where we see the large army decimate human forces... I've always had the impression that the resistance would never be platoon sized groups. They would be 5-10 people, maybe 1-2 vehicles at the most doing hit and run attacks and skirmishes.
Mainly because it wasn't so much about being outmatched or outgunned but more so about mortality. A war between two groups of humans large scale doesn't usually involve nukes, or at least they would think twice about using them because possible friendly casualties loss. When it is machine vs human, its completely different as there is no reason not to eradicate with weapons of mass destruction the area. There is nothing stopping them from a scorch earth war style... hence why I don't think battles would be large platoons. They would be small strike forces, never letting all their numbers be in one area for too long. Bands of resistance fighters and cells spread out through-out the world, not one organized army mobilizing at once... that is why I believe 28-32mm works fine for it and 15mm would not.
CptJake wrote: Automatically Appended Next Post: To apply this to the Terminator game, fielding two tracked HKs with a flying HK in support and a couple squads of man sized terminators against a reinforced platoon of humans (with their technicals and crew served weapons) would work a lot better in 15mm than in 28mm. It would be more affordable, and a normal sized table would not be overly crowded and there would be room to maneuver and have more realistic weapon ranges.
But if you are running just a squad or two of humans with one vehicle and a smaller number of machines, 28mm works well.
Other than the main movie opening where we see the large army decimate human forces... I've always had the impression that the resistance would never be platoon sized groups. They would be 5-10 people, maybe 1-2 vehicles at the most doing hit and run attacks and skirmishes.
Mainly because it wasn't so much about being outmatched or outgunned but more so about mortality. A war between two groups of humans large scale doesn't usually involve nukes, or at least they would think twice about using them because possible friendly casualties loss. When it is machine vs human, its completely different as there is no reason not to eradicate with weapons of mass destruction the area. There is nothing stopping them from a scorch earth war style... hence why I don't think battles would be large platoons. They would be small strike forces, never letting all their numbers be in one area for too long. Bands of resistance fighters and cells spread out through-out the world, not one organized army mobilizing at once... that is why I believe 28-32mm works fine for it and 15mm would not.
And yet we see a movie where the humans even fly A10 sorties against the machines and raids on machine facilities... There are clearly larger than squad sized battles going on in the Terminator universe.
Dark Severance wrote: Other than the main movie opening where we see the large army decimate human forces... I've always had the impression that the resistance would never be platoon sized groups. They would be 5-10 people, maybe 1-2 vehicles at the most doing hit and run attacks and skirmishes.
The beginning "flash-forward" Future War sequence of Terminator 2 is, indeed, the final push of the Human Resistance and the fall of Skynet. Scripted, but not filmed, due to budgetary constraints (remember, Terminator 2 was a 100 million dollar movie in 1991, making it one of the most expensive films ever made at that time), is the collapse of Skynet, the discovery by John Connor of the time dilation equipment, and the sending back of Kyle Reese, then the discovery that Skynet had also sent back a second Terminator... cut to the film beginning in "present day" (actually, the future of 1994, since the film was released in 1991... and the audience was supposed to be surprised that the Series 800 model 101 is actually a good guy, the Series 1000 liquid metal Terminator was a prototype bad guy etc, but the marketing for the movie had ruined any sense of surprise by that time)
Manchu wrote: I wonder how many human soldiers balances against a single T 800, nevermind a HK.
The T-800 is an infiltrator. It is not a ground combat model. The only reason Skynet has deployed the T-800 endoskeletons in ground combat during the opening sequence of Terminator 2 is because it is losing, and is throwing all available forces against the resistance forces. The infiltrator series is not designed to withstand shots from phased plasma rifles, which at that point, all of the resistance was using as it's base infantry weapon.
Dark Severance wrote: Other than the main movie opening where we see the large army decimate human forces... I've always had the impression that the resistance would never be platoon sized groups. They would be 5-10 people, maybe 1-2 vehicles at the most doing hit and run attacks and skirmishes.
The beginning "flash-forward" Future War sequence of Terminator 2 is, indeed, the final push of the Human Resistance and the fall of Skynet. Scripted, but not filmed, due to budgetary constraints (remember, Terminator 2 was a 100 million dollar movie in 1991, making it one of the most expensive films ever made at that time), is the collapse of Skynet, the discovery by John Connor of the time dilation equipment, and the sending back of Kyle Reese, then the discovery that Skynet had also sent back a second Terminator... cut to the film beginning in "present day" (actually, the future of 1994, since the film was released in 1991... and the audience was supposed to be surprised that the Series 800 model 101 is actually a good guy, the Series 1000 liquid metal Terminator was a prototype bad guy etc, but the marketing for the movie had ruined any sense of surprise by that time)
Manchu wrote: I wonder how many human soldiers balances against a single T 800, nevermind a HK.
The T-800 is an infiltrator. It is not a ground combat model. The only reason Skynet has deployed the T-800 endoskeletons in ground combat during the opening sequence of Terminator 2 is because it is losing, and is throwing all available forces against the resistance forces. The infiltrator series is not designed to withstand shots from phased plasma rifles, which at that point, all of the resistance was using as it's base infantry weapon.
Can I ask where you got that last bit of info from there Judgedoug? Very interesting!
And a small correction (to be a nerd!)- T2 was the most expensive film ever made when it was released, think it was then was overtaken by Waterworld later on.
I can't help but immagine an army of Imperial Guard, armed with all plasma guns, facing down a force of Necron Warrriors.
Could just be a sign I've been playing this game too much lately
Can I ask where you got that last bit of info from there Judgedoug? Very interesting!
And a small correction (to be a nerd!)- T2 was the most expensive film ever made when it was released, think it was then was overtaken by Waterworld later on.
Whew, mix of info gleaned from the old Terminator 2 making-of book and the special features and commentaries on the Terminator 2 Special Edition Laserdisc box set. There were lots of cool storyboards of the rest of the final battle and the inside of Skynet.
But series 800 Terminators were absolutely not designed for front-line combat, as specifically designed by James Cameron. Of course, the other non-Cameron Terminator movies kinda did what they wanted. However, the series 600 as seen in Terminator 4 are a nod to Kyle Reese's monologue in The Terminator about the earlier models being easy to spot (rubber skin, etc). However, no infiltrator Terminators could ever fool a dog! Hence the dogs at the checkpoint in Kyle Reese's "flashbacks" in The Terminator (and dogs going crazy in the background whenever a Terminator is around in the films)
I knew it was the most expensive Hollywood production at the time, but I couldn't remember if some of the old Soviet movies like Waterloo and War & Peace were more expensive to make (adjusted for inflation)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and to add some more trivia, the resistance was referred to as The Last Army in the storyboards and treatments.
Have you ever looked at a game of chess being played and thought "What this game needs is a 'critical failure' rule"? No? Because apparently Alessio did.
Same concept as Nightmare Chess and Battle Chess and all the other variations of chess. There's a whole subgroup of chess enthusiasts who love weird takes on chess; Loka was just filling one of the market niches.
Speak no ill of Nightmare Chess - that is a great game supplement with beautiful artwork. It just doesn't handle the points values very well.
Hope of the Future has all/most of the scenes I'm talking about.
Check the Deleted Scenes for awesome shots of scenes shot but not used for The Future War, and the Omitted Scenes for scenes not shot for The Future War.
Manchu wrote: I wonder how many human soldiers balances against a single T 800, nevermind a HK.
Go watch the original Terminator movie. Seems like 1 T-800 is a match for a couple dozen of LAPD's finest, or a squad of Insurgents.
A T-1000? Even worse.
Or HK? You'd best have actual military hardware.
Righto, which is why the resistance acquires phased plasma rifles as quickly as possible, as even a non-combat series 800 Infiltrator is nigh impervious to small arms fire (though can be destroyed with automatic rifles and anti-materiel weapons such as .50 caliber rifles and .50 caliber or 12.7mm or 14.5mm machine guns).
The Last Army is actually equipped with RPGs as their anti-Ground HK weaponry because they are so numerous post-holocaust and easy to manufacture. An Aerial Hunter-Killer is downed by a Stinger missile in the opening Future War sequence of Terminator 2.
Another fun fact: in the Cameron background for the Future War, most of the northern hemisphere is nuked out. The Last Army consists of Australian soldiers, South and Latin American soldiers, African soldiers, etc. Very few North American/European/Russians survived. The common languages used by the Resistance were Swahili and Spanish.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ah, excerpt from the October 1990 Terminator 2 script, details lots of what I'm talking about
adamsouza wrote: I can't help but immagine an army of Imperial Guard, armed with all plasma guns, facing down a force of Necron Warrriors.
FWIW, my Imperial Guard army can resemble that remark. I own at least 3 dozen Guardsmen with Plasma Guns and Meltaguns, in addition to a dozen Missile Launcher teams.
As you can guess, my boys see a lot of MEQs on the other side of the table...
We'll have to wait and see if Alessio is actually going to finish out the rules properly this time.
But Warlord has improved its distribution since they teamed up with manufacturers.
I have a feeling that this game will end up like Starship troopers. A great game after some revisions. Not one to play all the time, but more like a board game that you bring out for a themed flight.
Vertrucio wrote: We'll have to wait and see if Alessio is actually going to finish out the rules properly this time.
But Warlord has improved its distribution since they teamed up with manufacturers.
I have a feeling that this game will end up like Starship troopers. A great game after some revisions. Not one to play all the time, but more like a board game that you bring out for a themed flight.
I'm still confused by this. Alessio Cavatore has written four of my favorite games of all time: Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game, Kings of War, Mordheim, and Bolt Action. I can't imagine a finer pedigree.
What does Warlord's manufacturing capabilities have to do with it's distribution? In the US at least, they are distributed by themselves, Warpath, and Alliance. Dunno about ACD. But that's a pretty great distribution network.
Interestingly, my all-time favorite miniatures game is Starship Troopers (Andy Chambers). excluding the wacky army books, the core rules and core army lists make for the best, tightest, most tactically challenging and rewarding miniatures game I've ever played. Played it for years as my #1 minis game.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Regardless of rules designer, my main concern is that it is the Terminator Genisys license - I have no idea how accurate the background will be to the Cameron Terminator stuff, which is my favorite. At least T4 had lots of nods to the Cameron background, but T:G may just rewrite it all and get rid of all the great stuff that I loved about the Cameron Terminator Future War stuff.
judgedoug wrote:
Regardless of rules designer, my main concern is that it is the Terminator Genisys license - I have no idea how accurate the background will be to the Cameron Terminator stuff, which is my favorite. At least T4 had lots of nods to the Cameron background, but T:G may just rewrite it all and get rid of all the great stuff that I loved about the Cameron Terminator Future War stuff.
This is my biggest concern too. If I can ignore all the new stuff and game based on T1 and T2 then it will be a mighty tempting game.
It'll be hard to screw up endoskeleton models, and even if the Last Army/Resistance soldiers look like crap there's plenty of other manufacturers of rag-tag resistance looking guys.
SO, even if for some reason the rules suck, hopefully scads of cheap plastic endoskeletons will be had!
The trailer was pretty lame but now I hope the movie will do well because Cavatore/Warlord have a proven track record and the franchise is awesome even despite some really terrible entires. So I doubt there will be any T-X or what have you. But the initial box will almost certainly have great looking T-800 endoskeletons and Last Army guys regardless of any rebooted background elements. I would bet there will also be some kind of vehicle in the box as well as an 'enfleshed' (i.e., Arnold) T-800 that can be incorporated into army lists for either side.
judgedoug wrote:
Regardless of rules designer, my main concern is that it is the Terminator Genisys license - I have no idea how accurate the background will be to the Cameron Terminator stuff, which is my favorite. At least T4 had lots of nods to the Cameron background, but T:G may just rewrite it all and get rid of all the great stuff that I loved about the Cameron Terminator Future War stuff.
This is my biggest concern too. If I can ignore all the new stuff and game based on T1 and T2 then it will be a mighty tempting game.
I also share this concern. I want to field units that are closer to T1 and T2 future war aesthetic.
But I feel like even if they only have the Genisys license they can still fudge a lot of stuff to make some of the mini's look more like their T1 and T2 counter parts. For example, scarp car technical are generic enough that the shouldn't need any extra licensing. They could also make the main resistance troops look like the movie but have a different type of squad that resembles the the uniforms form T1 and T2 without copying them directly. Same with the HK's we will probably get ones that similar to what we saw in T1 and T2 but updated a bit like T3's flying HK, As long as it's close enough I will be happy.
I wonder if this game will have a mechanic where you can send a model 'back in time' to prevent your opponent from that one really great roll. But your opponent may send one his models back as well to stop yours.
I wonder if this game will have a mechanic where you can send a model 'back in time' to prevent your opponent from that one really great roll. But your opponent may send one his models back as well to stop yours.
That is the best idea for a game mechanic that I have ever seen.
Sure you could make a very interesting 'D20' table to role on, to determine the results of the units going back in time..
I wonder if this game will have a mechanic where you can send a model 'back in time' to prevent your opponent from that one really great roll. But your opponent may send one his models back as well to stop yours.
Yes, that is awesome!
You should send it over to the crew at River Horse ASAP!
Manchu wrote: I wonder if this game will have a mechanic where you can send a model 'back in time' to prevent your opponent from that one really great roll. But your opponent may send one his models back as well to stop yours.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I can't believe the Harvester is in scale. Amazing.
It does scale well with 28mm miniatures, but it was entirely too small for the 6" action figures it shared a line with.
Barzam wrote:Where did you even find a Harvester? I thought those only saw limited distribution in Europe.
I had pre-ordered it from Amazon, months before the movie release. It was delayed multiple times, then one day it just showed up.
The T1s I picked up on clearance for half price at ToysRus. Went back to get more and the Flying HKs the next week and the T1s were back up to full price, and the flyers were all sold out.
The Hunter Killer came from Minimates, kinda look like Lego, figure line.
Q: Is Warlord also providing the plastics/miniatures?
Warlord Games: This is a River Horse product not made by us. We are the exclusive distributors worldwide. As soon as we have approved pics we'll make sure to show them off.
Alessio Cavatore
Not intentionally a tease (well, maybe a little...), but it's all very secret (under big, fat NDAs), and all so last minute and in rapid development...
On Wednesday on BOW I will say what I can for now!
If you didn’t know already Warlord Games and River Horse, with Alessio Cavatore at the helm, are going to be kicking off a Terminator Genisys Miniatures Game this summer! We’ll be having a Google Hangout chat with the man himself this Wednesday at 7pm/19:00 GMT and we want your questions for him!
If you have questions about the rules, the miniatures, the main boxed game, the scale, or anything else you can think of put it in the comments below and we’ll handpick some questions and queries and get them answered for you.
As it stands we know it’s going to be a skirmish game based around the new movie and the main box will be called War Against The Machines featuring the forces of Skynet and of course the Human Resistance.
You WILL be notified on here before the Hangout begins and you’ll be able to watch it here, hosted on the main website or through our Youtube channel.
What would YOU like to know?
Unfortunately I will be at work during the Hangout, but I'll check in later on Wednesday night to see what is what...
We learned that nobody at BoW (or even Alesio) realised that because they were showing 'pre-approval' stuff that they were not going to be able to keep it on line
The boxed starter game will be 10 terminators versus 16 humans plus human hero.
Models are hard plastic, done by renedra, they only showed the terminators, they look a little static but were decent quality.
Heroes for both sides will likely be resin.
Besides the starter box, there will be hero clampacks and boxed additional plastic forces, with larger models such as vehicles coming later.
The game used poly dice, d4, 8, 12 and 20's, plus another dice he called a 'fate dice' (custom D6) to determine activation order. He designed bolt Action so think of a variation on that sort of turn mechanism.
Game will be out to coincide with the movie release which is july.
The T1000 will be one of the skynet hero characters, and he expects to add the larger skynet constructs as it progresses, as well as humvees and other vehicles for the humans.
Oh, and there is a time travel mechanism in the game too.
NoggintheNog wrote: The boxed starter game will be 10 terminators versus 16 humans plus human hero.
Game will be out to coincide with the movie release which is july.
So the game is "production ready"?
The good thing is that this will hit the ground, as it's locked to the movie. The bad thing is that the PR embargo means we have basically no news until the embargo breaks. The funny thing is that this got forced back to being a minis board game that doesn't use KS for funding / promotion.
Hopefully the hangout will go better than their aborted one with Rick Priestly a few weeks back. Did that ever actually happen after the last minute cancellation?
Or the humans have plasma weaponry and it is set in the future as opposed to the present (or late 80s early 90s)
The humies did pretty well killing the skeleton troops in the future parts of the movies. They just didnt have the mass production abilities that skynet had.
It depends on what the dice do and how they are implementing them but it isn't necessarily that bad. Dice typically represents a number, then you refer to a stat card or another book to determine if something succeeds. Lately dice have been used for much more to represent traits, classes and keeping all stats and necessary numbers contained to the dice and character card. It can make things much more streamlined, at least that is how it felt when I was playing Star Wars: Imperial Assault with black, blue, red, yellow and green dice.
I know Ambush Alley/Force on Force use different die types to represent different levels of a trait, and their 'almost universal rule' a player needs to roll 4s or higher for success. So a D10 has a better chance than a D6 for example. It works decently, instead of modifiers you can use a die type shift.
PomWallaby wrote: Finding it weird hearing Fox is involved. Thought this film was by Paramount Pictures.
The new film is from Paramount Pictures and I don't believe Fox have ever had any real involvement except for the Sarah Conner tv series so I can't see them having anything at all to do with this game which hopefully means it won't run into as many problems as AvP.
The nice thing is that this will go regular retail. No worries about KS exclusives or any of that nonsense. You probably have time to wait for the reviews.
Either they're trashing the established effectiveness of Terminators or they don't want the humans to win. Ever.
And why use 5 fething kinds of dice?
Excitement waning on this one...
He said it would be incredibly tough for the humans, but they have a hero, and the terminators do not. The hero isn't some all powerful thing, in combat not much more effective than normal models, but what they add is command and control flexibility, that is, they can affect the activation sequence, which makes them tactically powerful. The Human plastics also have a wide choice of weaponry as well.
The various dice are because the game is intended to be streamlined, so there are no modifiers. Instead, your untrained human survivor would roll a D4 for their actions, militia a D8, and trained soldiers a D12, with machines always using a D20. This is how skill level is reflected in the mechanics.
Edit to add: He also mentioned that there is a mechanic for knocking the terminators down, and once on the floor, the human can get in and shoot them in the face to kill them much more easily, so there are various game mechanics to represent what we have seen in the movies.
Either they're trashing the established effectiveness of Terminators or they don't want the humans to win. Ever.
And why use 5 fething kinds of dice?
Excitement waning on this one...
He said it would be incredibly tough for the humans, but they have a hero, and the terminators do not. The hero isn't some all powerful thing, in combat not much more effective than normal models, but what they add is command and control flexibility, that is, they can affect the activation sequence, which makes them tactically powerful. The Human plastics also have a wide choice of weaponry as well.
The various dice are because the game is intended to be streamlined, so there are no modifiers. Instead, your untrained human survivor would roll a D4 for their actions, militia a D8, and trained soldiers a D12, with machines always using a D20. This is how skill level is reflected in the mechanics.
Edit to add: He also mentioned that there is a mechanic for knocking the terminators down, and once on the floor, the human can get in and shoot them in the face to kill them much more easily, so there are various game mechanics to represent what we have seen in the movies.
The boxed starter game will be 10 terminators versus 16 humans plus human hero.
Models are hard plastic, done by renedra, they only showed the terminators, they look a little static but were decent quality.
Heroes for both sides will likely be resin.
Besides the starter box, there will be hero clampacks and boxed additional plastic forces, with larger models such as vehicles coming later.
The game used poly dice, d4, 8, 12 and 20's, plus another dice he called a 'fate dice' (custom D6) to determine activation order. He designed bolt Action so think of a variation on that sort of turn mechanism.
Game will be out to coincide with the movie release which is july.
Still interested. Seems that plenty of info came out in the end. Pleased to hear the official correction that Fox have no involment, Skydance/Paramount can learn from their experience. I like the sound of the game so far. May be a good opportunity to use my buckets of Deadzone and Mars Attacks scenery on the same board. Skynet compounds and Judgement Day ruins.
There is not enough information about the mechanics to judge them as simple. Seems like all we know is that different kinds of units roll checks on different kinds of dice. If anything, it would be more simple if all units rolled all checks on the same kind of dice (e.g., as in many games, D6s).
Either they're trashing the established effectiveness of Terminators or they don't want the humans to win. Ever.
And why use 5 fething kinds of dice?
Excitement waning on this one...
Please reference a moment in any Future War scene where humans with plasma rifles are not murdering Infiltrators. Ref the opening scene of Terminator 2, which is Skynet's last stand.
The series 800 Infiltrator Terminators are not front line combat machines. As has been referenced in this thread on multiple occasions, the only reason they see battlefield use is when Skynet is losing.
Last Army resistance infantry are humans and can therefore move, hide, and are more agile than Infiltrators. Infiltrators are more robust, but are slower. A 16:10 ratio is probably about right.
Either they're trashing the established effectiveness of Terminators or they don't want the humans to win. Ever.
And why use 5 fething kinds of dice?
Excitement waning on this one...
Please reference a moment in any Future War scene where humans with plasma rifles are not murdering Infiltrators. Ref the opening scene of Terminator 2, which is Skynet's last stand.
The series 800 Infiltrator Terminators are not front line combat machines. As has been referenced in this thread on multiple occasions, the only reason they see battlefield use is when Skynet is losing.
Last Army resistance infantry are humans and can therefore move, hide, and are more agile than Infiltrators. Infiltrators are more robust, but are slower. A 16:10 ratio is probably about right.
I'm well aware.
However, I was mistakenly under the impression the game would take place before the acquisition of plasma rifles, and have since said that it makes more sense now.
However, I was mistakenly under the impression the game would take place before the acquisition of plasma rifles, and have since said that it makes more sense now.
My mistake for replying before reading the rest of the thread!
Manchu wrote: There is not enough information about the mechanics to judge them as simple. Seems like all we know is that different kinds of units roll checks on different kinds of dice. If anything, it would be more simple if all units rolled all checks on the same kind of dice (e.g., as in many games, D6s).
I've played a few different games where the dice are bumped up or down, instead of using modifiers to target numbers or the rolls themselves. It works, and is usually a design decision to simplify and speed up resolution. Unless you are playing a Margeret Wiess game, like Marvel Heroic Role Playing, where she murders this mechanic, or the Fantasy Fiight Star Wars games where the dice have symbols instead of numbers.
It doesn't have to getty messy and complicated. Instead of adding additional d6 to resolve, you up the die code instead.
d4 instead of 1d6
d6 instead of 2d6 d8 instead of 3d6 d10 instead of 4d6 d12 instead of 5d6
d20 instead of 6d6
Roll applicable dice, compare results, highest roll wins.
Random Human d4 Militia d8 Trained soldiers D12 Machines D20
5 soldiers shooting at 5 T700s becomes roll 5d12 and 5d20 and compare results.
Let's say John Conner, as a hero, has an inspiring leadership ability that grants a +1 bonus to allied troops withing 6".
This could either be resolved as a +1 to rolls themselves, or a +1 bump in die codes, likely the latter.
So 5 Militia, normally d8s, lead by John Conner roll d10s.
Throw in a simple damge mechanics like
Attack Roll greater than Defense Roll = target Knocked Down
Attack Roll Twice the Defense Roll = target Destroyed
Some simple modifiers
Shooting at Knocked Down target +1 die code
Combined action +1 die Code
So those same 5 Militia, lead by John Conner, all target a lone knocked down T700.
D8s become d10s because of inspring.
Those d10's decome d12s for combining their actions.
The d12s become d20s because the T700 is knocked down
And you end up with a game where you only roll 1 die per model, but a lot of tactical flecibility and depth
Man, I just designed a game right there. Need to put that in a pdf....
Are we actually sure that all the endoskeletons will actually be 800 series Terminators? Even if they are, there is a chance that some of those Endoskeletons might be counted as reprogramed resistance Terminators. 17 Humans and 1 Terminator against 9 terminators does seem a lot more fair.
If I remember my Terminator lore here is what could appear:
T-1 : mini-tank with two chainguns (as seen in T3 and Terminator Salvation)
T-400 series: Simple endoskeleton with a Kevlar-like padding to give some protection from small arms fire. Had the nickname "scarecrow" after Kevlar gets raggedy from hits
T-500 Series: I forget the basics on this one
T-600 Series: Rudimentary infiltration unit. Looked somewhat human and could pass as human....from a distance. Rubber skin, would be large for a human. (As seen in Terminator Salvation)
T-700 Series: Human looking endoskeleton. Basic Infantry unit. Could be pressed into service as an infiltrator (better than 600, worse than 800) Tough enough to withstand small arms fire, but heavier conventional weapons could take them out (seen in Terminator Salvation)
T-800: Series (The Arnold we all know and love) Tougher and with a better processor than the 700 series. Conventional weapons almost useless against them (unless extremely large caliber). As seen in original Terminator.
T-800 mark 2: Update of the base 800 series. Frictionless bearings added to joints, slightly heavier frontal armor, better software, and an added plasma fuel cell for redundancy in power supply. Also added a power capacitor so it could "get pumped up" for short periods of time of boosted strength and speed. (this model was used as the Arnold in T-2)
T-850: A reworking of the 800 series that still used many of the same components, including the skin. Added even more frontal armor than the 800 mark 2 to withstand plasma blasts that were becoming more common in the resistance. It had better software. The Plasma fuel cells were replaced with Hydrogen fuel cells for more power. An access panel on the front was added for ease of self-repair. (this was the Arnold from T-3)
T-888: An minor tweek to the 850 series (Terminator the Series)
T-900 Series: Advanced prototype infiltration unit. Created to remove some of the weaknesses of the 800 series. Stronger, faster, smarter, and with less "open" area around the neck and abdomen. Actuators are hidden behind armor instead of exposed like in the 800 series. (Briefly shown in T-3)
T-1000 Series: liquid metal, but lacking the ability for Skynet to directly control them, thus they were constantly in a self-learn mode. Some were known to switch sides without reprogramming as they had learned morality.
T-X (as seen in T-3) Seen as the best of both the 900 and 1000 Series. Could still be directly controlled by Skynet while still having some degree of flexibility with appearance. Much more resilient to plasma weapons than any other previous model.
T-1,000,000: Basically a one-off prototype used to guard Skynet's core processor. Little more than a giant T-1000 (as seen in the Termintor: the Experience at Universal Studios)
It's a pretty good bet that this game will be based on whatever background is generated for the GeniSys film rather than what has come before in previous movies, video games, TV shows, card games, etc.
The T800 is indeed iconic -- as an unstoppable killing machine (in 1984 and 1995). It is not iconic as a pushover last ditch effort, even if that is shown in T2 or was supposed to be shown. In other words, how the T800 is popularly perceived is probably not a good indication of what we should expect from the game. I would also argue, how the T800 is portrayed in T1 and T2 is probably not a good indication of what we should expect from a game called GeniSys.
I expect the difference between the game and the movies done for balance and fun to be similar to how space marines differ from the fluff and the game. In the game, they're roughly the equivalent (in points and power) of 3-4 stock guardsmen. In the fluff, I believe the ratio is around 100:1 instead when other factors are included (like deployment, backup, etc). In this case (as with all games), "fluff" should play second fiddle to fun and balance. It's not fun for most folks to field 2-3 terminators against a dozen or more humans (or vice versa) as the terminators could die in just a small handful of unlucky rolls or be invulnerable because of missing a few that they statistically should have failed (like rolling no 1's for space marine terminator saves in 12 armor saves).
I pretty much agree, warboss. I feel the same way about even historical games. If I want a detailed, accurate depiction of a historical battle, I will read reputable academic texts on said battle. If I want to see T800s do whatever they do in the movie, I will watch the movie. That said, these kind of games trade on being "based on" something. WW2 Italian tanks should not be fantastic in a war game just for the sake of balance. T800s i the game should reasonably approximate however they are portrayed in GeniSys -- that is what I would say is Priority Number One. Priority Number Two is balance.
cuda1179 wrote: Are we actually sure that all the endoskeletons will actually be 800 series Terminators? Even if they are, there is a chance that some of those Endoskeletons might be counted as reprogramed resistance Terminators. 17 Humans and 1 Terminator against 9 terminators does seem a lot more fair.
If I remember my Terminator lore here is what could appear:
T-1 : mini-tank with two chainguns (as seen in T3 and Terminator Salvation)
T-400 series: Simple endoskeleton with a Kevlar-like padding to give some protection from small arms fire. Had the nickname "scarecrow" after Kevlar gets raggedy from hits
T-500 Series: I forget the basics on this one
T-600 Series: Rudimentary infiltration unit. Looked somewhat human and could pass as human....from a distance. Rubber skin, would be large for a human. (As seen in Terminator Salvation)
T-700 Series: Human looking endoskeleton. Basic Infantry unit. Could be pressed into service as an infiltrator (better than 600, worse than 800) Tough enough to withstand small arms fire, but heavier conventional weapons could take them out (seen in Terminator Salvation)
T-800: Series (The Arnold we all know and love) Tougher and with a better processor than the 700 series. Conventional weapons almost useless against them (unless extremely large caliber). As seen in original Terminator.
T-800 mark 2: Update of the base 800 series. Frictionless bearings added to joints, slightly heavier frontal armor, better software, and an added plasma fuel cell for redundancy in power supply. Also added a power capacitor so it could "get pumped up" for short periods of time of boosted strength and speed. (this model was used as the Arnold in T-2)
T-850: A reworking of the 800 series that still used many of the same components, including the skin. Added even more frontal armor than the 800 mark 2 to withstand plasma blasts that were becoming more common in the resistance. It had better software. The Plasma fuel cells were replaced with Hydrogen fuel cells for more power. An access panel on the front was added for ease of self-repair. (this was the Arnold from T-3)
T-888: An minor tweek to the 850 series (Terminator the Series)
T-900 Series: Advanced prototype infiltration unit. Created to remove some of the weaknesses of the 800 series. Stronger, faster, smarter, and with less "open" area around the neck and abdomen. Actuators are hidden behind armor instead of exposed like in the 800 series. (Briefly shown in T-3)
T-1000 Series: liquid metal, but lacking the ability for Skynet to directly control them, thus they were constantly in a self-learn mode. Some were known to switch sides without reprogramming as they had learned morality.
T-X (as seen in T-3) Seen as the best of both the 900 and 1000 Series. Could still be directly controlled by Skynet while still having some degree of flexibility with appearance. Much more resilient to plasma weapons than any other previous model.
T-1,000,000: Basically a one-off prototype used to guard Skynet's core processor. Little more than a giant T-1000 (as seen in the Termintor: the Experience at Universal Studios)
If you're including the Terminator Experience, then you've left out the Cyberdyne Series 70/T-70 Autonomous Infantry. They're just as canon as the T-1,000,00.
Barzam wrote: They're just as canon as the T-1,000,00.
So ... not at all?
This idea of canon is ... misguided. We're talking about a setting created to support commercialized storytelling and ... well, commercial exploitation of the resulting product. Given the product name here, we can reasonably surmise that any notion of "canon" (and I'm not sure there is an official policy or even who would be in the position to declare as much) is out of the window. GeniSys is being marketed as a reboot.
Depending on the price, I could well be tempted by this one. So long as all the relevant dice are included the mechanic seems fine, Pulp Alley uses something very similar and it works rather nicely from what I've read.
edlowe wrote: The time travel mechanic is just a reroll action.
Hmm, that's simple enough, but it could have been more unique.
It shouldn't be a mechanic. The right way to include time travel would be to have two or three mini campaigns in the box that influence the later campaigns - like how Cyberdyne's recovery of the T-800 arm and chip in the T1 timeline allowed Skynet to develop the T-1000 in the T2 timeline. Maybe a minor Skynet victory in the first campaign means John Connor dies before the second campaign. Things like that.
cuda1179 wrote: Are we actually sure that all the endoskeletons will actually be 800 series Terminators? Even if they are, there is a chance that some of those Endoskeletons might be counted as reprogramed resistance Terminators. 17 Humans and 1 Terminator against 9 terminators does seem a lot more fair.
If I remember my Terminator lore here is what could appear:
Spoiler:
T-1 : mini-tank with two chainguns (as seen in T3 and Terminator Salvation)
T-400 series: Simple endoskeleton with a Kevlar-like padding to give some protection from small arms fire. Had the nickname "scarecrow" after Kevlar gets raggedy from hits
T-500 Series: I forget the basics on this one
T-600 Series: Rudimentary infiltration unit. Looked somewhat human and could pass as human....from a distance. Rubber skin, would be large for a human. (As seen in Terminator Salvation)
T-700 Series: Human looking endoskeleton. Basic Infantry unit. Could be pressed into service as an infiltrator (better than 600, worse than 800) Tough enough to withstand small arms fire, but heavier conventional weapons could take them out (seen in Terminator Salvation)
T-800: Series (The Arnold we all know and love) Tougher and with a better processor than the 700 series. Conventional weapons almost useless against them (unless extremely large caliber). As seen in original Terminator.
T-800 mark 2: Update of the base 800 series. Frictionless bearings added to joints, slightly heavier frontal armor, better software, and an added plasma fuel cell for redundancy in power supply. Also added a power capacitor so it could "get pumped up" for short periods of time of boosted strength and speed. (this model was used as the Arnold in T-2)
T-850: A reworking of the 800 series that still used many of the same components, including the skin. Added even more frontal armor than the 800 mark 2 to withstand plasma blasts that were becoming more common in the resistance. It had better software. The Plasma fuel cells were replaced with Hydrogen fuel cells for more power. An access panel on the front was added for ease of self-repair. (this was the Arnold from T-3)
T-888: An minor tweek to the 850 series (Terminator the Series)
T-900 Series: Advanced prototype infiltration unit. Created to remove some of the weaknesses of the 800 series. Stronger, faster, smarter, and with less "open" area around the neck and abdomen. Actuators are hidden behind armor instead of exposed like in the 800 series. (Briefly shown in T-3)
T-1000 Series: liquid metal, but lacking the ability for Skynet to directly control them, thus they were constantly in a self-learn mode. Some were known to switch sides without reprogramming as they had learned morality.
T-X (as seen in T-3) Seen as the best of both the 900 and 1000 Series. Could still be directly controlled by Skynet while still having some degree of flexibility with appearance. Much more resilient to plasma weapons than any other previous model.
T-1,000,000: Basically a one-off prototype used to guard Skynet's core processor. Little more than a giant T-1000 (as seen in the Termintor: the Experience at Universal Studios)
Not to go too far afield, but was the Cameron terminator from Chronicles an 800-series model, or a completely bespoke/experimental unit?
Of course, balance between sides is a hard thing to pin down when (as noted) some terminator units are notable for having switched sides (or being repurposed, as it were).
There's several different "canons" for the Terminator franchise because so many different forces were pulling in multiple directions, some with very little understanding of what they were doing. (multiple films, the TV series, novels, comic books, video games, etc)
However, the most accepted is all Cameron canon - Terminator, Terminator 2, and T2 3-D (Universal Studios).
But from the research I've done in the past few hours about Terminator Genisys, it appears the filmmakers have actually used Cameron's background as the basis for Genisys, including the use of the H-K Centurion and the Last Army battle at Skynet (sometimes referred to as Operation Chrono). Since the wargame will apparently be based solely on Future War engagements, I'm feeling pretty good about the background, even if the rest of the Genisys movie sucks balls.
Not to go too far afield, but was the Cameron terminator from Chronicles an 800-series model, or a completely bespoke/experimental unit?
It was never confirmed Cromartie scans her but can't identify her model but it's speculated that he is not aware of her as he was sent back in time before Cameron is created. Summer Glau said Cameron was a T888 although she seems to be later modified model her endoskeleton is similar to a T888 but smaller in size, other sources have her as a T900 or modified T900 but this is less likely as T900s are designed to fight other machines which Cameron is not suited to. Early promotional material has a TOK715 number for her but this may actually be the Skynet designation of Alison Young the human on whom Cameron's look is based.
Most accepted by who? And is it "most accepted" as a closed canon or just as the basis? Honestly, these are ultimately rhetorical questions meant to show that talking about canon is useless except if one just want to demonstrate how much one knows about the property.
Anyhow, I do agree that the game will probably be good or bad entirely independently from whether the movie is good or bad. I have pretty high hopes for the game. The movie, however, oh dear.
Manchu wrote: The T800 is indeed iconic -- as an unstoppable killing machine (in 1984 and 1995). It is not iconic as a pushover last ditch effort, even if that is shown in T2 or was supposed to be shown. In other words, how the T800 is popularly perceived is probably not a good indication of what we should expect from the game.
Sort of. It's shown as "unstoppable" by normal small arms fire and impervious to injuries that would stop a normal human being. However, the series 800 model 101 Infiltrator in The Terminator is torn in half by a homemade pipe bomb. Now, certainly, it still continues it's attack, albeit heavily crippled. (We also see this in the FW scene in T2 when a mostly-crushed 800 is attempting to reach it's rifle before being destroyed by a Last Army soldier, who also has a plasma rifle)
Cameron background for the series 800 was to be undetectable by humans - hence the living tissue sheath - and infiltrate to Resistance nests to cause as much damage as possible. That being said, the Resistance were able to replace standard automatic rifles and other ballistic weapons over time with phased plasma rifles and other high-end gear captured from Skynet and from downed Infiltrators.
^^^ So what I am hoping is that the miniatures game takes this into consideration - where "Early War" Resistance humans armed with automatic rifles and such must put a lot of effort into downing endoskeletons, but "Late War" Last Army humans would have plentiful access to phased plasma weapons (Westinghouse M-27 Phased Plasma Battle Rifle, General Dynamics RBS-80 Phased Plasma Pulse Gun). In T-3 canon, this is the reason the series 850 upgrade exists (reinforced armor plates, dual power units, etc), due to the proliferation of phased plasma weapons and the relative ease they could destroy base model series 800 units. I hope the rules reflect the ability to "injure/degrade" an endoskeleton, whereas a kill is very hard, unless it's previously been injured (with phased plasma rifles having a much higher chance of causing a kill, whereas ballistics almost no chance of outright kill)
Interestingly the ubiquitous RPG is so plentiful and so useful that Resistance and Last Army members use them constantly. (think 1945 era Germany with how many Panzerfausts were distributed to the population) So fingers crossed the resistance humans have RPGs!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Manchu wrote: Most accepted by who? And is it "most accepted" as a closed canon or just as the basis? Honestly, these are ultimately rhetorical questions meant to show that talking about canon is useless except if one just want to demonstrate how much one knows about the property.
Most Accepted by fandom, in the same way Aliens fandom pretty much ignore everything after Alien/Aliens especially AvP movies and Prometheus.
I wonder how many of the Last Army soldiers will be armed with Phased Plasma as opposed to ballistic weaponry. Or if the terminators included in the box will even be T800s as opposed to some new mark made up for GeniSys.
Manchu wrote: I wonder how many of the Last Army soldiers will be armed with Phased Plasma as opposed to ballistic weaponry. Or if the terminators included in the box will even be T800s as opposed to some new mark made up for GeniSys.
I'm hoping for generic resistance guys with lots of weapon options. (I will buy a billion of them) We do see plenty of shots of Future War with series 800, Aerial-HK, and HK-Centurions in the trailer, so I'd put money on those appearing in the miniatures game.
DaveC wrote: Well Mars Attacks has the trucks covered if it comes to it.
And some very cool wrecked cars I'm very much considering a dedicated board for this, if only I could get enough skulls for the ground I'd go for something like this:
Mostly intrigued by the possibilities of the Resistance models. I wonder how long it will take before we find out exactly what they mean by "28mm"(Infinity-esque 28mm truescale? GW heroic 28mm? Bolt Action heroic 28mm? actually-32mm-but-don't-want-to-say-so 28mm? etc etc).
Terminator is locked in a predestination loop, and it happens a little different each time.
T2 has the terminator remains from T1 as the basis for Skynet. destroys them and the creator to end judgement day.
T3 Judgement Day happens anyway. John Conner is less bad ass, and more of the guy in Central Command. Dies in this version of the future.
Teminator Experience has a few models of Terminators not seen in other time lines
Termiantor Salvation, John Conner is now Batman, Giant Harvester Robots, snake robots, and motorcycle robots added
Terminator Sarah Conner Chronicles establishes that Skynet has a multitude of possible origins, is essentially inevitable.
Dark Horse Comics commits to the idea that judgement day happens, Resistance wins, Skynet sends back more terminators before getting destroyed, cycle repeats .
In one time line Robocop defeats Skynet with an army of T800 Robocops
judgedoug wrote: There's several different "canons" for the Terminator franchise because so many different forces were pulling in multiple directions, some with very little understanding of what they were doing. (multiple films, the TV series, novels, comic books, video games, etc)
However, the most accepted is all Cameron canon - Terminator, Terminator 2, and T2 3-D (Universal Studios).
But from the research I've done in the past few hours about Terminator Genisys, it appears the filmmakers have actually used Cameron's background as the basis for Genisys, including the use of the H-K Centurion and the Last Army battle at Skynet (sometimes referred to as Operation Chrono). Since the wargame will apparently be based solely on Future War engagements, I'm feeling pretty good about the background, even if the rest of the Genisys movie sucks balls.
Funny thing is, the future war would happen regardless of the canon. The Connors didn't destroy all of the original T-800. All they got was the arm and chip. When Kyle blew the T-800 in half, its lower body was mostly left intact. If Cyberdyne had the arm and chip, they probably had the legs, too. So there was still a fair bit of the T-800 left to reverse engineer.
adamsouza wrote: Terminator is locked in a predestination loop, and it happens a little different each time.
T2 has the terminator remains from T1 as the basis for Skynet. destroys them and the creator to end judgement day.
T3 Judgement Day happens anyway. John Conner is less bad ass, and more of the guy in Central Command. Dies in this version of the future.
Teminator Experience has a few models of Terminators not seen in other time lines
Termiantor Salvation, John Conner is now Batman, Giant Harvester Robots, snake robots, and motorcycle robots added
Terminator Sarah Conner Chronicles establishes that Skynet has a multitude of possible origins, is essentially inevitable.
Dark Horse Comics commits to the idea that judgement day happens, Resistance wins, Skynet sends back more terminators before getting destroyed, cycle repeats .
In one time line Robocop defeats Skynet with an army of T800 Robocops
for john conner to exist and beat skynet, skynet has to exist for him to be born. Skynet has to exist due to the timetravel which causes it to exist being created by skynet itself
adamsouza wrote: The fluff appropriate Time Travel mechanic is every time it looks like the Resistance Player is about the win, you reset the game back to turn 1
adamsouza wrote: Terminator is locked in a predestination loop, and it happens a little different each time.
T2 has the terminator remains from T1 as the basis for Skynet. destroys them and the creator to end judgement day.
T3 Judgement Day happens anyway. John Conner is less bad ass, and more of the guy in Central Command. Dies in this version of the future.
Teminator Experience has a few models of Terminators not seen in other time lines
Termiantor Salvation, John Conner is now Batman, Giant Harvester Robots, snake robots, and motorcycle robots added
Terminator Sarah Conner Chronicles establishes that Skynet has a multitude of possible origins, is essentially inevitable.
Dark Horse Comics commits to the idea that judgement day happens, Resistance wins, Skynet sends back more terminators before getting destroyed, cycle repeats .
In one time line Robocop defeats Skynet with an army of T800 Robocops
adamsouza wrote: The fluff appropriate Time Travel mechanic is every time it looks like the Resistance Player is about the win, you reset the game back to turn 1
Didn't Terminator cross over with both Aliens and Predator at some point(and probably Batman, Superman, and Judge Dredd as well)? I fully expect someone to homebrew crossover rules.
Barzam wrote: Didn't Terminator cross over with both Aliens and Predator at some point(and probably Batman, Superman, and Judge Dredd as well)? I fully expect someone to homebrew crossover rules.
Quick wiki search says the comic crossovers were -
Aliens vs. Predator vs. The Terminator
Painkiller Jane vs. Terminator
Painkiller Jane vs. Terminator: Time to Kill
RoboCop versus The Terminator
RoboCop vs. The Terminator
Superman vs. The Terminator: Death to the Future
Surprised at the lack of Batman or Judge Dredd crossovers.
Barzam wrote: Didn't Terminator cross over with both Aliens and Predator at some point(and probably Batman, Superman, and Judge Dredd as well)? I fully expect someone to homebrew crossover rules.
adamsouza wrote: The fluff appropriate Time Travel mechanic is every time it looks like the Resistance Player is about the win, you reset the game back to turn 1
Time isn't linear... its wibbily wobbly timey wimey. ^_^
So, the most important question is who is sculpting the models and how do they look? Do they have the poor GW-esque proportions of most of Warlord's other figures?
Hi guys, thanks for your comments (well, most of them!). As Warren said, we are unfortunately bound by legal obligations about what we can and cannot show, and when. It is definitely not our choice, but it’s not something we can change.
Would I not want to show more stuff? Am I not very excited about the stuff we’re making and cannot wait to show it to the world? You bet I am! And I’m chomping at the bit to be allowed to do so… and we are putting as much pressure as we can on the giant corporations we are dealing with to be allowed to show more. Sadly, of course, this is an ‘ant vs boot’ kinda relationship, as Loki would put it… and we are the ant!
To ease the pain of people that have missed the live show, all I can do, until the time we are allowed to make the video public again, is to answer a few questions here…
Thanks for your cooperation… Oh, wait, wrong movie!
Barzam wrote: Well, thanks to Crooked Dice, you can actually have a Terminator vs Timelords battle. How awesome would that be?
One-sided. For reference, see the premise of Genesis of the Daleks.
And unlike Arnie, when the Time Lords go back to stop Skynet happening, they do it right!
I shall have to check out this game, though.
As much as I love Doctor Who, he destroys ALL of the Daleks, and sometimes Cybermen, about once per season, and they still keep coming back. The only things that stay dead on Doctor Who are the Companions.
Also, I think a T800 would just shoot the Doctor in the face the first time he pointed a sonic screwdriver at it.
Terminators are comparable to Cybermen, and we know that ONE Dalek would be easily sufficient pest control for millions of Cybermen (such a funny scene).
Dr. Who defeats the Daleks, so transitively, the Terminators have zero chance against the Doctor.
Taarnak wrote: So, the most important question is who is sculpting the models and how do they look? Do they have the poor GW-esque proportions of most of Warlord's other figures?
Enquiring minds want to know...
~Eric
"River Horse is proud to announce that the Terminator Endoskeletons and the Resistance soldiers are going to be sculpted by veteran sculptor Bob Naismith and produced by renowned UK company RENEDRA LTD."
(wonder how much they've had to pay to guarantee production in time for the movie release)
Bob Naismith does some great stuff, but also some phoned in work (not sure whether its how much is paid or how interesting it is for him that makes the difference) so I'll have to see what the final results look like
judgedoug wrote:
"River Horse is proud to announce that the Terminator Endoskeletons and the Resistance soldiers are going to be sculpted by veteran sculptor Bob Naismith and produced by renowned UK company RENEDRA LTD."
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:Renendra is a big plus
(wonder how much they've had to pay to guarantee production in time for the movie release)
Bob Naismith does some great stuff, but also some phoned in work (not sure whether its how much is paid or how interesting it is for him that makes the difference) so I'll have to see what the final results look like
What a terrible, terrible decision. Well, it saves me money at least...
If they sell the rulebook separately you can always use the Copplestone terminators (either the originals sold by EM-4 or the newer ones sold by Copplestone Castings). Human forces should be pretty easy to source, whether you want rag tag civilians, military/paramilitary o a mix.
A lot of his sculpts are hit and miss, I would guess depending on the paycheck.
As for plastics, he sculpted RTB01 plastic mk6 beakie marines box set, the original plastic Warhammer skeletons (Skeleton Army box set), the plastic Advanced Heroquest models (heroes, skaven, men at arms)...
more recently, he sculpted the Mobile Infantry plastics for SST, which, while cast in a weird plastic, are pretty great (and a bit fiddly, lots of parts). And the Warrior Bugs, which I love. Also the Mantic plastic Orcs are personally my favorite orcs on the market.
I think some of his most recent work in metals would be Blackwater Gulch.
Automatically Appended Next Post: OH! He also sculpted all of the Gripping Beast plastics! Saxon Thegns, Dark Age Warriors, Vikings.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hmm, also possibly the Fireforge plastics, too. Trying to confirm.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and of course the Mantic zombies and ghouls.
Those Gripping Beast minis are fantastic! Not sure about Blackwater Gulch though as I'm not familiar with that game, can anyone post some examples of his work from that?
CptJake wrote: If they sell the rulebook separately you can always use the Copplestone terminators (either the originals sold by EM-4 or the newer ones sold by Copplestone Castings). Human forces should be pretty easy to source, whether you want rag tag civilians, military/paramilitary o a mix.
And with the greatest of respect to those Copplestone terminators (i've owned about 30 of them), I think we can probably safely expect the sculpts for this game to be a fair improvement over those minis.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Actually, yeah, now that I'm googling, he's probably the most prolific plastic contract sculptor for our hobby on the planet, wow. Even the old Combat Zone plastics from the 1990's and the Void 1.1 plastics are his.
Pacific wrote: Those Gripping Beast minis are fantastic! Not sure about Blackwater Gulch though as I'm not familiar with that game, can anyone post some examples of his work from that?
CptJake wrote: If they sell the rulebook separately you can always use the Copplestone terminators (either the originals sold by EM-4 or the newer ones sold by Copplestone Castings). Human forces should be pretty easy to source, whether you want rag tag civilians, military/paramilitary o a mix.
And with the greatest of respect to those Copplestone terminators (i've owned about 30 of them), I think we can probably safely expect the sculpts for this game to be a fair improvement over those minis.
I was replying to a guy who seems to dislike the Naismith as a sculptor, just offering alternatives.
I have some of the Blackwater Gulch figures, I like them. I also have some of the Gripping Beast plastics and like them a lot too.
cavatore said: On January 23, 2015
Hi, here goes:
1.In what form will the leader of the machines be in the terminators’ army? The humans have John Connor, so will there be a miniature of the leader of Skynet?
Unfortunately, the leader of Skynet is Skynet, which is AI software… which does not make a good model! There are gonna be big bad guys though, but some are secret I’m afraid…
2. Will there be the full range of terminator model types from all the movies or just Genisys and T1 and T2?
Just Genisys actually. That’s what we have the licence for. But most cool stuff is in there.
3. The T1000 can shapeshift, will that ability be in the game? Apart from creating knives and stabbing weapons, will they be able to disappear as the surface of the floor or become molten and enter through barred areas and holes in defenses?
They certainly have some entertaining deployment rules… and are sooo tough to kill…
4. Can you only play the game in the future war, or can you play it in 1980′s Los Angeles too?
Both. But the centre of the action is obviously the war against the machines – as humans without plasma weapons are not very well equipped to deal with terminators…
5. Will there be Arnie’s reprogrammed Terminator in the game?
There will be a ‘good’ Arnie, yes…
6. Can you win every battle by capturing a terminator, reprogramming it and sending back to the 1800′s and kill Charles Babbage, the “father” of the computer, and stop all possible creations of a future, homicidal artificial computer intelligence? Or, if you play as the machines, can you win by sending a terminator to kill Sarah Connor’s great, great, great, great, great grandparents?
Not exactly that, but you can send agents back in time to try to change the future (i.e. getting a re-roll…) and the other player can send his agents to kill yours (i.e. trying to stop you getting a re-roll)…
7. Can you create your own alternate timeline in the game?
Not literally, but I assume that you could in a campaign… or is it that you create an alternative timeline every time you play a scenario and the result is different from the ‘historical’?
8. Will there be special minis of Kyle Reese, Lance Henriksen’s cop, the police chief, Dr Silberman, and Bill Paxton as a punk?
The corresponding Genisys actors, of course, if the character appears in Genisys…
9. Will the miniatures be multi-part plastics which will allow for cool conversions (terminator skulls and arms on human bodies)?
Core troops are dry-fit hard multipart plastics produced by Renedra and sculpted by Bob Naismith.
Characters and other bits and bops are resin or metal, and sculpted by…
10. Will there lots of skulls; both human and terminator to litter the battlefield with?
Every terminator frame has two terminators and a ‘crawler’ – a terminator that had its legs blown off… crawlers can be used in the game, and spare ones can be turned into rather nice terrain!
Bob Naismith has done some good sculpts, even though I would not rank him as one of my favorites. He ceirtanly is old school.
One of the reasons that he was chosen is probably that he has a huge experience for sculpting for Renedras process, which probably speeds things up and makes everything go smoothly. A less experienced sculptor might need a lot more corrections and changes made to the sculpts to make them suitable for plastic production. With Bob Naismith, River Horse probably figures that they will get sculpt that works for plastic right away.
Your hyperbole is unconvincing. Naismith's work ranges from (IMO) terrible to excellent. Speculating as to where the Terminator miniatures will fall on that wide of a spectrum is pointless ... unless all you want to do is run down a sculptor, which is also pointless.
His work is mediocre at it's best. Just because the guy started sculpting in the 80s doesn't mean he can't improve. It has been 30 years or so...
~Eric
While I agree that some of his stuff hasn't been that good (taking this stuff subjectively), are you honestly able to look at that list JudgeDoug posted on the previous page, and then dismiss anything that could come as part of this game out of hand?
Manchu wrote: Your hyperbole is unconvincing. Naismith's work ranges from (IMO) terrible to excellent. Speculating as to where the Terminator miniatures will fall on that wide of a spectrum is pointless ... unless all you want to do is run down a sculptor, which is also pointless.
Hyperbole? Sure...
His style arguably hasn't changed.
And speculating on the quality is all that we can do, and is totally relevent (not to mention common) in light of the fact that we have nothing else to go by.
I have never run down the sculptor once. Nor will I. He is by all accounts a nice guy. His work, however, is fair game.
Either way, I'll abandon this line of conversation in the thread. I will not change anyone's mind, nor will they change mine. Any who wish further discussion about it feel free to PM me.
While I agree that some of his stuff hasn't been that good (taking this stuff subjectively), are you honestly able to look at that list JudgeDoug posted on the previous page, and then dismiss anything that could come as part of this game out of hand?
Yes. I can. All of the stuff on that list is bad to mediocre. You folks disagree and that's fine. Anyway, like I said, we can continue via PM if you like.
This is all subjective, you either like a sculpt/sculpting style or not. Personally, I think he has done enough good stuff (and I actually own enough of his miniatures without realising) that I'll look forward to seeing what these turn out like.
And, at least a comment about the sculptor has lead to a list of his previous minis being posted, and people can judge on that basis.
The same could be said with game rules, there was a comment earlier in the thread about Alessio writing the rules, and again someone deciding to tune out of this game because of that. While I wasn't the biggest fan of his rules for GW, he's experienced enough I think that again you would probably think he would do a solid enough job, and the game be playable, rather than being a question mark over the whole thing because you don't know who is writing the rules. So, less chance of it being a 'Sedition Wars' for example.
His work is mediocre at it's best. Just because the guy started sculpting in the 80s doesn't mean he can't improve. It has been 30 years or so...
~Eric
While I agree that some of his stuff hasn't been that good (taking this stuff subjectively), are you honestly able to look at that list JudgeDoug posted on the previous page, and then dismiss anything that could come as part of this game out of hand?
Just to say - my reference to 'shockingly badly designed...' refers to the website, not his sculpting. Looking through his work over the years, I can see good and bad, which probably describes the majority of sculptors out there (maybe with the exception of the Perry twins who always seem to deliver quality sculpts...)
But as others say, until we have actual examples of the Terminator : Genisys miniatures, I'll reserve judgement... I do though have high hopes for this game..
I guess the morale of the story is for folks who watch the next livestream to get screen caps of the minis to share with the wider community since the company can't officially do that themselves.
Endoskeleton terminators have been in production for decades now. There must be some 3D files of them they can just scale down for production of toys, statues, etc.. It would make very little sense to sculpt them from scratch.
Just to say - my reference to 'shockingly badly designed...' refers to the website, not his sculpting. Looking through his work over the years, I can see good and bad, which probably describes the majority of sculptors out there (maybe with the exception of the Perry twins who always seem to deliver quality sculpts...)
As much as I like the Perrys' stuff, they're not without blemishes. I don't think any sculptor or artist can be.
You guys are just jealous you aren't all ripped out and super manly like those Catachans. Grunting, yelling, shooting your guns wildly while staring at the world with your blank dead eyes.
Admit it.
Off topic, but I'm interested in what those lizard like samurai archer thingees are on Naismith's page.
I'll be waiting to see if we get some bigger, thicker, Catachan style exoskeletons so I can play BubbleGum Crisis on my table.
Just to say - my reference to 'shockingly badly designed...' refers to the website, not his sculpting. Looking through his work over the years, I can see good and bad, which probably describes the majority of sculptors out there (maybe with the exception of the Perry twins who always seem to deliver quality sculpts...)
As much as I like the Perrys' stuff, they're not without blemishes. I don't think any sculptor or artist can be.
I remember reading some very interesting comments about how and why they were sculpted like that. I think similar to Nagash, in that they had people who were not sculptors/artists interjecting their own ideas and how they wanted the miniature to look. Culminating in a "fine, if you want it like that, here you go.." Unfortunately, the sculptor doesn't always have a completely free reign over how the miniature will look, and sometimes they have to make something that is flawed as a concept and arguably impossible to realise (without it looking goofy!)
Leave Catachans alone, you meanies. They not THAT bad, the paintjob in the pic is just horrible. Some arms have weird musculature, but most look really close to meaty but not fat-free BBs, but with heroic scale heads and legs. Compare them to other kits of the time and END THE PERSECUTION.
(Sorry, but Catachans are my favourite regiment besides Mordians and I hate how people treat them as a laughing stock )
Yes. I can. All of the stuff on that list is bad to mediocre. You folks disagree and that's fine. Anyway, like I said, we can continue via PM if you like.
~Eric
That's an interesting assertion. It's 2015, so let's check out a little bit of Naismith's resume for the past five years.
Victrix's Napoleonics are the equal to Perry's; Naismith sculpted the entire Austrian range at the very least. Both Victrix and Perry are unequaled in the combination of sculpting quality and dollar value in the plastics miniatures market.
Mantic's undead plastics are superior to any plastic undead on the market.
I'm actually left wondering who, other than the Perry brothers and Bob Naismith, can actually sculpt good organic plastics? GW left that realm a long time ago; the Empire 7th edition plastic infantry were the beginning of the decline with atrocious human sculpts. Adam Poots' Kingdom Death plastics are fantastic, but have had a multi-year lead time with multiple millions of bucks and still aren't released yet, and you have to like the style (giant, giant lady hips). Wargames Factory has the best 3D sculpted plastic humans on the market (the phenomenal AWI range, putting all other 3D sculpts to shame). So that leaves us with Perry Bros and Naismith for traditional 3up plastic sculpting and Wargames Factory as the best 3D sculpting.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Manchu wrote: Naismith's work ranges from (IMO) terrible to excellent. Speculating as to where the Terminator miniatures will fall on that wide of a spectrum is pointless
Terrible to excellent, pretty much going in order from 30 years ago to most recent. Let me see, 30 years ago the software I wrote was non-existent; now it's used to manage ten thousand customers and ship several hundred thousand packages per year. I would say I have improved over 30 years
As an aside, specifically his and Perry's Napoleonic sculpts are what make me keep teetering and tottering from smaller micro scale Naps to 28mm.
... unless all you want to do is run down a sculptor, which is also pointless.
Which is effectively what this thread has become.
Especially with now most of a page referencing the Perry's first plastic GW kits?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh jam, I just discovered Naismith sculpted Victrix's absolutely fantastic Hoplites
They're doing question or two of the week on the facebook group
Q. Mtt Adlard asked about the figure count and as to if the Game is Skirmish or Battle. A. Well at release "The BOX" will have enough models to happily play as a Skirmish Game, the rules however allow bigger games to be played.
Q. Tom Robinson asked about the materials for the models, Plastic, Resin, Metal. A. Simple answer Tom is Yes, currently all of the above. "The BOX" will be very nice hard plastic from the guru's at Renedra. MOST of it sculpted by Bob Naismith.........
Terminators are three-piece models: Legs, Torso/upper body, and arms/weapon
Human Resistance two pieces: body/legs/head, and modular arms/weapon (akin to recent Bolt Action plastics)
Resistance figures look great (to me) very much Last Army style, some fatigues, pieces of armor, lots of different weapon options - rifles, plasma rifles, rocket launchers
Alessio showing off a FATE die right now
Automatically Appended Next Post: FATE die is a FATE, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2 (or was it FATE, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2?) dice, activation/initiative die, FATE is 0, so you get 0-2 activations per round, usually 1, basically allowing alternating activations but with a chance of zero or 2.
license is for Genisys ONLY. no previous Terminator films.
only stuff in Genisys films (or concept art) allowed, though showing concepts for new endoskeleton types (one looked like a T-600 with underslung rotary cannon)
River Horse has received permission to use some of its own concepts for Terminators (e.g., with flamethrowers or missile arms).
Expansions will include present day (i.e., Sarah Conner) as well as future miniatures.
T-1000 will be in metal.
Time Displacement Device - each player has one marker, boils down to a re-roll as previously posted ITT. Can buy up to five more. Opponent can spend token to attempt (roll-off) to cancel re-roll.
Warlord will cast some resin miniatures for this game.
16 resistance (including heavy weapons), Reese, 10 terminators, 5 crawlers, 13 dice, 2+ sheets of counters, playing mat (3' x 2') - a paper one but a nicer one will be available separately, terrain pieces, full color rulebook with scenarios and army lists, reference sheet, starter guide
70GBP
less expensive one (50-55 GBP) excludes rulebook and kyle reese model, not sure if this edition will happen
Resistance comes in green plastic, terminators in silver plastic
1/4 of resistance force can be from terminator side (hacking, capturing, etc)
resistance can be taken for terminators as well as collaborators
Alex C wrote: However, I was mistakenly under the impression the game would take place before the acquisition of plasma rifles, and have since said that it makes more sense now.
The resistance does have Plasma Rifles.
Since Arnold is in the movie, depending on if the movie shows him as Arnold, damaged or an exo-version. They do have access to an older and younger version of him in the movie. So it is possible they could also have his metal form (unless they change his model of that version which they could, since this is sort of alternate but same time). Hinted at something with infiltrators, it didn't sound like he was referring to the T-1000.
Only 30-odd minis for $100 ($70 come X-mas?) seems a bit spendy, but then this is a licensed property, not a CMoN "100 minis for $100" KS...
For the same $100, I think I'd be more likely to roll the dice with the Conan KS. OTOH, I think that $100 on Terminator is probably better than throwing $100 at Dream Pod 9 for Heavy Gear Blitz.
4x4 or smaller up -scale to 6X4
Play mat-no hexes, squares. Two sided other side is a underground resistance bunker.
2D terrain on top of mat
Template- movement and shooting no ruler
Different colour for factions
Endos metalic plastic
Resistance green
Kyle Reese resin character
HQ geared more towards command benefits instead of beatsticks
Infiltrators/ T-1000 mechanics included
20 century weapons hard to kill T-800 cannot destroy, knockdown slightly damage. You can finish them off while down. Rule called Hastla Vista Baby
Wargamer set:
16 resistance soldiers and Reese
10 endos and 5 crawlers
Dice 2 of each for a total of 12 dice
1 Fate die
2-3 + punch boards templates and 2D flat terrain
Prison camp templates-laser fence (budget permitting)
3x2 playmat cheap one in box. Hope to sell a nice one separately.
Soft full colour rulebook
16 page starter guide
70 quid approx. (not final)
Cheaper version lacks rule book and Reese for 55 Quid (not final)
Mechanics could possibly include:
Reprograming machines
Human collaborators working against resistance
Manchu wrote: Seems like roughly 20 GBP of the cost is the rulebook.
The plastic terrain might be a good chunk of cost if it includes a bunch. I really love the Warlord ruined farmhouses for Bolt Action.
70GBP puts it right at the $112 that is the D-Day Firefight (20 US, 10 Germans, Sd Kfz 251/1, plastic terrain, rulebook, order dice, normal dice, pin markers, scenarios)
Automatically Appended Next Post: Ah, terrain is card-based. Disappoint.
Sounds very promising, I don't suppose anyone got any screen grabs?
+EDIT+ Brilliant, many thanks MrFlutterPie
Quite amusing with the metal T1000, can be a validly unpainted mini!
JohnHwangDD wrote: Only 30-odd minis for $100 ($70 come X-mas?) seems a bit spendy, but then this is a licensed property, not a CMoN "100 minis for $100" KS...
For the same $100, I think I'd be more likely to roll the dice with the Conan KS. OTOH, I think that $100 on Terminator is probably better than throwing $100 at Dream Pod 9 for Heavy Gear Blitz.
Although Conan has an 'October' pencilled in at the moment which, lets be honest, you probably shouldn't hold your breath with (also considering the massive number of stretch goals that game is hitting).
This one will be BLAM (or maybe.. dumdum dum dumdum - Brad Field theme tune ) and here in complete form come May/June.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Only 30-odd minis for $100 ($70 come X-mas?) seems a bit spendy, but then this is a licensed property, not a CMoN "100 minis for $100" KS...
For the same $100, I think I'd be more likely to roll the dice with the Conan KS. OTOH, I think that $100 on Terminator is probably better than throwing $100 at Dream Pod 9 for Heavy Gear Blitz.
Although Conan has an 'October' pencilled in at the moment which, lets be honest, you probably shouldn't hold your breath with (also considering the massive number of stretch goals that game is hitting).
This one will be BLAM (or maybe.. dumdum dum dumdum - Brad Field theme tune ) and here in complete form come May/June.
Oh, no doubt Conan will be run longer to final completion due to all of the extra stuff. I do hope they plan on 2 waves so that the initial game makes Holiday 2015, but no way I'm holding my breath on any large KS.
I do like that this one will hit retail for sure. I'm less thrilled with the notion of polyhedral dice. Had the game engine been built around the Fate die, or some variation thereof, that would have been better.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pacific wrote: Mega, mega excited about this game. AvP, Conan, now Terminator! It's like three Christmases come at once
AvP? So everything's straightend out there? Things are all "approved" and good to go? Nice. I can't wait to see these at retail.
I am extremely interested in the Fate Die mechanic and the resulting pace of play.
As for the polyhedrals, I was non-plussed about them at first but very recently a buddy watching me open a boxed game noted the first thing I went for was the dice. I know I am a tactile person when it comes to gaming but that observation made me realize how much I frigging love dice. When I see "card-based mechanic" in a miniatures game description (most recently with Deus Vult, another Cavatore game), my interest level plummets. So I am cautiously optimistic about using dice step mechanics to reflect differences usually captured by stat line mechanics.
"Cautiously optimistic" very much sums up my attitude toward everything about this game now that I have seen today's video.
Pacific wrote: Mega, mega excited about this game. AvP, Conan, now Terminator! It's like three Christmases come at once
AvP? So everything's straightend out there? Things are all "approved" and good to go? Nice. I can't wait to see these at retail.
Hmm no, not quite in the good to go category yet unfortunately! I'm quietly optimistic about it, there are still some shenanigans going on between Fox and Prodos, but hopefully that should be sorted out so the release arrives some time March/April (which is when Beasts of War were commenting that it might arrive).
The huge amount of excitement I initially experienced about the AvP game quickly tapered down when it became clear how far Prodos's ambitions outstripped its apparent capacity. I didn't even pledge for that one. I still look in on the thread from time to time but my enthusiasm will probably hibernate until the miniatures are actually released. With this Terminator project, there is no KS-induced expectation of transparency throughout the process. If River Horse cannot meet the deadlines it has publicly set then River Horse suffers rather than a bunch of people who already laid their cash on the table. This in turn will generate a lot less ill will. It will be very inetersting to see how the games do comparatively, especially if they release around the same time. I for one would like for creators and consumers to both take a much more critical look about whether KS is a good model.
Manchu wrote: I am extremely interested in the Fate Die mechanic and the resulting pace of play.
As for the polyhedrals, I was non-plussed about them at first but very recently a buddy watching me open a boxed game noted the first thing I went for was the dice. I know I am a tactile person when it comes to gaming but that observation made me realize how much I frigging love dice. When I see "card-based mechanic" in a miniatures game description (most recently with Deus Vult, another Cavatore game), my interest level plummets. So I am cautiously optimistic about using dice step mechanics to reflect differences usually captured by stat line mechanics.
"Cautiously optimistic" very much sums up my attitude toward everything about this game now that I have seen today's video.
Same. The Fate Die is great. It's inherently elegant and friendly.
To me, polyhedrals raise a big question in balancing. Why a d4 vs a d6? Why not an unbalanced d3 (Fate die) vs a d4? What warrants the big step from a d12 to a d20? When do you roll Fate (avg. 1.167) vs simply taking "1"? And then there is this expectation that you need to use *ALL* of the polyhedrals. Sometimes I wonder if polyhedrals are being used to add a veneer of complexity where it isn't needed.
The dice step mechanic entails some interesting points. Although your chances of rolling X or higher obviously increases along with the number of sides on the die you are rolling, the marginal increase in likelihood decreases per dice step (not counting the d12 to d20 step). So a d6 to d8 step has more impact than a d8 to d10 step. The impact of any step increases, however, as the number you are trying to roll or roll higher than goes up. So it is more important to get a dice step when you are trying to roll higher numbers.
Agreed. Tho that implies the core of the game should focus on the "regular" steps of d4-d6-d8-d10-d12, leaving the "outlier" d20 and d3F reserved for special actions. In this case, the core game is designed as a "d8" game with +2/-2 steps up/down and the avg. 1.167 Fate die is kind of a sideshow to spice up regular alternating activiation. That seems kind of timid.
NoggintheNog wrote: The various dice are because the game is intended to be streamlined, so there are no modifiers. Instead, your untrained human survivor would roll a D4 for their actions, militia a D8, and trained soldiers a D12, with machines always using a D20. This is how skill level is reflected in the mechanics.
If a unit's die type is static, then the cool things about dice steps kind of go out the window.
If that's true, the focus seems to be on showing that some feats are flat out impossible for humans/lesser trained humans. And that is not so exciting.
From the way I understood it, there are no real calculations just your target number. That means there are no modifiers to figure out. If you shoot and human, we'll say as example the hit for a Plasma Rifle is 6 or more.
Untrained human survivor shooting, rolls a D6 looking for a 6 for a hit. Militia with some higher training is a better shot, still looking for a 6 to hit but rolls a D8. The trained soldier rolls a D10, still looking for a 6. The hero may roll a D12, also looking for a 6 or more. (numbers are made up to be used as an example).
Roll fate dice to determine if you activate 1, 2 units or get fate and don't activate. Not sure if when activate if you get one action which consists of move and shoot, of if you get 1-2 actions which can be either move or shoot. When you shoot, it's pretty much that simple. Roll which dice correspond to whatever skill level your troop is.
NoggintheNog wrote: The various dice are because the game is intended to be streamlined, so there are no modifiers. Instead, your untrained human survivor would roll a D4 for their actions, militia a D8, and trained soldiers a D12, with machines always using a D20. This is how skill level is reflected in the mechanics.
If a unit's die type is static, then the cool things about dice steps kind of go out the window.
If that's true, the focus seems to be on showing that some feats are flat out impossible for humans/lesser trained humans. And that is not so exciting.
If it's static, unstepped die size for an opposed test, then one can calculate the odds:
This could also be simplified as:
- machines need to avoid "Fate".
- re-roll success against Heroes, or
- re-roll failures against untrained humans.
Sure, it's Thorpian 6s to the extreme, but it's numerically similar and emphasizes "Fate" aspect very heavily.
And the 1s and 2s? Use those for Human vs Human, variable damage/wounds, whatever.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dark Severance wrote: Roll fate dice to determine if you activate 1, 2 units or get fate and don't activate. Not sure if when activate if you get one action which consists of move and shoot, of if you get 1-2 actions which can be either move or shoot. When you shoot, it's pretty much that simple. Roll which dice correspond to whatever skill level your troop is.
Presumably, you would roll Fate die to see how many actions you get...
JohnHwangDD wrote: If it's static, unstepped die size for an opposed test, then one can calculate the odds
Presumably, you would roll Fate die to see how many actions you get...
I wasn't able to watch the whole thing as I was at work. I only saw him mention that the dice represented skills, there were no modifiers and there was a basic target number.
Did he state they were going to be used in opposed rolls (resistance survivor rolls a D6 vs a terminator rolls a D20 to determine success) or are they simply rolling to succeed at hitting?
I thought Fate dice were only used to determine activation (initiative), if you activated 1 or 2 units or got fate and didn't activate at all. Heroes had the option to change that fate by activating, heroes having different powers like some being able to activate others around them but it sounded like that came at a cost. I'm guessing you can only use it once per game, so you have to determine if that is when you want to use your power. I didn't see him mention (in the little I saw) that Fate was rolled to determine how many actions you get. If it is only activation, I like the mechanic. If it is a combination of rolling to activate and then roll to see how many actions then I definitely will not like that mechanic.
Also anyone know if there was a mention of a action/reaction mechanic? Or is it simply activate and if I have initiative and shoot, my opponent doesn't have a response?
Dark Severance wrote: If you shoot and human, we'll say as example the hit for a Plasma Rifle is 6 or more.
If the dice a unit uses is totally static, that seems like a really bad mechanic. What if a target is behind cover? Any considerations for range?
The point of dice steps is that the step itself replaces the flat modifier. The modifier mechanic doesn't go away; the step itself is the modifier. The difference is a dice step is a variably modified probability rather than a flatly modified result. So for example, roll one step down if the target is out of range and roll one step down if the target is behind cover. So a unit that usually rolls a d12 would be looking for a 6 on a d8 when shooting at a target out of range and behind cover. I think this is what JohnHwangDD was referring to when he said
Sometimes I wonder if polyhedrals are being used to add a veneer of complexity where it isn't needed.
What I was getting at is, it is interesting that change in likelihood decelerates going up steps and accelerates going down steps (variable modification) -- again, except for the d12 to d20 step. The machines take a beating when they drop from d20, almost as bad as a soldier dropping two steps.
JohnHwangDD wrote: If it's static, unstepped die size for an opposed test, then one can calculate the odds
Presumably, you would roll Fate die to see how many actions you get...
I wasn't able to watch the whole thing as I was at work. I only saw him mention that the dice represented skills, there were no modifiers and there was a basic target number.
Did he state they were going to be used in opposed rolls (resistance survivor rolls a D6 vs a terminator rolls a D20 to determine success) or are they simply rolling to succeed at hitting?
I thought Fate dice were only used to determine activation (initiative), I didn't see him mention (in the little I saw) that Fate was rolled to determine how many actions you get.
If ...
Presumably...
I was making a supposition, a guess, and commenting on the "what if" effect to demonstrate how the game could be more elegant by leveraging the Fate die to a greater extent.
FYI Cutlass was designed by Gav Thorpe. I have a copy around somewhere and will share his basic mechanic as/when I find and review it.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Found it!
So Cutlass is a skirmish game and so has a RPG-style design. Each model is defined by seven attributes. Each attribute is a die type. These dice can be modified via die step or rolling and additional die at the same step because of skill, equipment, or circumstance. The lowest die step you can roll is d4. The highest is rolling 2d20 and taking the higher result. Most of the combat roll results are compared to the opponent's result on a table to find the outcome.
All this talk about dice and game mechanics, and no one has brought up the most important rule to consider when choosing your dice: the Castle Doctrine.
What dice are you going to choose when defending your sprawling suburban home on Christmas Eve? D20's? D6's? All of the above and more. Here's why: when the first bandit chases you blindly around a corner, nice round D20's will shoot his feet out from under him and up over his head, plunging him Kidney-first onto the hard edges of your D6's. Then the other bandit will barrel around the corner, flailing his arms, screaming, ululating and hopping to avoid tripping on his supine companion. Hopping onto your strategically-placed D10, it's odd shape penetrating his curiously unshod foot, then rolling sideways to propel him face first onto your D4 minefield, leaving both bandits stunned and immobile long enough for you to bring in your snow shovel for the coup-de-grace. No slippery-fingered villains can defeat you if you use all your dice, no matter how awkwardly tall and skinny or comedic ally short and fat they are.
So, yes, a nice variety of dice is important. It could even save your life someday.
Ps: is it just me, or do the Terminators not have any plasma rifles? Did the resistance pilfer them all?
Even if the movie sucks, even if the game sucks - this fulfills a 20-year desire of mine to have real 28mm endoskeletons and Last Army figs!
I'm there with you.
The Cheaper Rulebook free version of the box set would probably sell well to poor fools like us, stocking up on miniatures.
Didn't they say they would also be selling separate boxes of minis?
It's posssible. I'm just assuming that, like most starters, there is a bit of a built in bulk discount, and that extra terrain, mats, and markers wouldn't hurt.
Also, it could just be me, considering my history. I've got about 6 boxes of Sedition Wars, 10 boxes of Star Wars Epic Duels, and 15 boxes of the Halo Boardgame that I bought just for bulk figures.
That bits been added to the lore for Genisys to explain Arnies aged look. The organic parts age like a normal human but the machine lasts much longer I forget exactly the battery life (Edit 120 years) but it would out last its organics in the new lore.
James Cameron wrote:I pointed out that the outer covering (of the Terminator) was actually not synthetic, that it was organic and therefore could age. You could theoretically have a Terminator that was sent back in time, missed his target, and ended up just kind of living on in society. Because he is a learning computer and has a brain as a central processor he could actually become more human as he went along without getting discovered.
Heck, if their cheap enough I'l buy an extra twenty to field as Necron Warriors
Heck, I could almost see doing an entire Necron army using these minis if the vehicles look good too. Think about it: T800's as warriors, Flying HK's as DoomScythes, T1000's as Pretorians, T-1's as Tomb Spyders, HK tanks as Monoliths, That giant robot thing from Terminator Salvation as a Triarch Stalker, T-X as an Overlord, mini flying drones (Terminator 2, 3D) as scarabs.
Some comments from Alessio on Facebook regarding the T800 3-ups
Alessio Cavatore: They look more static than the rebels specifically because the first ones we made were rejected and the feedback was (and I quote) "can you make them more robotic and less athletic"? If you watch the trailer you'll absolutely see why!
Alessio Cavatore: Also, they are dry fit, and you can rotate the torso around the hips and the gun+arms around the shoulders a bit, so you get quite some different angles out of the basic ones.
Alessio Cavatore: Guys, please keep in mind that these are 3-ups... and of course a 3up normally a lot more like a toy model than a 28mm model... It's to do with proportions... as an extreme example, have you seen what a Space Marine looks like when made into a man-sized statue - looks like a squat!
For example, in a 28mm model, some body/facial features need to be slightly larger than in 'reality', as otherwise the features simply disappear... so a 28mm blown up to 3-up looks a bit more 'cartoony' (in the sense that in a real human the torso is five-seven times the head... in mickey mouse it's just two... )...
I had read those comments but didn't notice the name - and not sure if that is a photo of Alessio, or of Jean Reno from the movie Leon(?!)
)
