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 Ruglud wrote:
There are some images on his webpage - although it's shockingly badly designed...

http://www.bobnaismith.com/

Then it's appropriate for the subject matter....

His work is mediocre at it's best. Just because the guy started sculpting in the 80s doesn't mean he can't improve. It has been 30 years or so...

~Eric

Your hyperbole is unconvincing. Naismith's work ranges from (IMO) terrible to excellent. Speculating as to where the Terminator miniatures will fall on that wide of a spectrum is pointless ... unless all you want to do is run down a sculptor, which is also pointless.

 Taarnak wrote:

 Ruglud wrote:
There are some images on his webpage - although it's shockingly badly designed...

http://www.bobnaismith.com/

Then it's appropriate for the subject matter....

His work is mediocre at it's best. Just because the guy started sculpting in the 80s doesn't mean he can't improve. It has been 30 years or so...

~Eric

While I agree that some of his stuff hasn't been that good (taking this stuff subjectively), are you honestly able to look at that list JudgeDoug posted on the previous page, and then dismiss anything that could come as part of this game out of hand?

 Manchu wrote:
Your hyperbole is unconvincing. Naismith's work ranges from (IMO) terrible to excellent. Speculating as to where the Terminator miniatures will fall on that wide of a spectrum is pointless ... unless all you want to do is run down a sculptor, which is also pointless.

Hyperbole? Sure...

His style arguably hasn't changed.

And speculating on the quality is all that we can do, and is totally relevent (not to mention common) in light of the fact that we have nothing else to go by.

I have never run down the sculptor once. Nor will I. He is by all accounts a nice guy. His work, however, is fair game.

Either way, I'll abandon this line of conversation in the thread. I will not change anyone's mind, nor will they change mine. Any who wish further discussion about it feel free to PM me.

~Eric


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 Pacific wrote:

While I agree that some of his stuff hasn't been that good (taking this stuff subjectively), are you honestly able to look at that list JudgeDoug posted on the previous page, and then dismiss anything that could come as part of this game out of hand?

Yes. I can. All of the stuff on that list is bad to mediocre. You folks disagree and that's fine. Anyway, like I said, we can continue via PM if you like.

~Eric

OK then I will, contents of my PM:

"Fine, up to you mate"

This is all subjective, you either like a sculpt/sculpting style or not. Personally, I think he has done enough good stuff (and I actually own enough of his miniatures without realising) that I'll look forward to seeing what these turn out like.

And, at least a comment about the sculptor has lead to a list of his previous minis being posted, and people can judge on that basis.

The same could be said with game rules, there was a comment earlier in the thread about Alessio writing the rules, and again someone deciding to tune out of this game because of that. While I wasn't the biggest fan of his rules for GW, he's experienced enough I think that again you would probably think he would do a solid enough job, and the game be playable, rather than being a question mark over the whole thing because you don't know who is writing the rules. So, less chance of it being a 'Sedition Wars' for example.

 Pacific wrote:

 Taarnak wrote:

 Ruglud wrote:
There are some images on his webpage - although it's shockingly badly designed...

http://www.bobnaismith.com/

Then it's appropriate for the subject matter....

His work is mediocre at it's best. Just because the guy started sculpting in the 80s doesn't mean he can't improve. It has been 30 years or so...

~Eric

While I agree that some of his stuff hasn't been that good (taking this stuff subjectively), are you honestly able to look at that list JudgeDoug posted on the previous page, and then dismiss anything that could come as part of this game out of hand?

Just to say - my reference to 'shockingly badly designed...' refers to the website, not his sculpting. Looking through his work over the years, I can see good and bad, which probably describes the majority of sculptors out there (maybe with the exception of the Perry twins who always seem to deliver quality sculpts...)

But as others say, until we have actual examples of the Terminator : Genisys miniatures, I'll reserve judgement... I do though have high hopes for this game..

I guess the morale of the story is for folks who watch the next livestream to get screen caps of the minis to share with the wider community since the company can't officially do that themselves.

Endoskeleton terminators have been in production for decades now. There must be some 3D files of them they can just scale down for production of toys, statues, etc.. It would make very little sense to sculpt them from scratch.

 Ruglud wrote:

Just to say - my reference to 'shockingly badly designed...' refers to the website, not his sculpting. Looking through his work over the years, I can see good and bad, which probably describes the majority of sculptors out there (maybe with the exception of the Perry twins who always seem to deliver quality sculpts...)

As much as I like the Perrys' stuff, they're not without blemishes. I don't think any sculptor or artist can be.

To be fair, those are early plastics, which likely aren't a fair representation of their true sculpting ability.

You guys are just jealous you aren't all ripped out and super manly like those Catachans. Grunting, yelling, shooting your guns wildly while staring at the world with your blank dead eyes.

Admit it.

Off topic, but I'm interested in what those lizard like samurai archer thingees are on Naismith's page.

I'll be waiting to see if we get some bigger, thicker, Catachan style exoskeletons so I can play BubbleGum Crisis on my table.

The world needs more Boomers!

Ruglud - yes no worries, I know you were talking about the website.

 Azazelx wrote:

 Ruglud wrote:

Just to say - my reference to 'shockingly badly designed...' refers to the website, not his sculpting. Looking through his work over the years, I can see good and bad, which probably describes the majority of sculptors out there (maybe with the exception of the Perry twins who always seem to deliver quality sculpts...)

As much as I like the Perrys' stuff, they're not without blemishes. I don't think any sculptor or artist can be.

Spoiler:

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-WW/Imperial-Guard-Catachan-Jungle-Fighters

I remember reading some very interesting comments about how and why they were sculpted like that. I think similar to Nagash, in that they had people who were not sculptors/artists interjecting their own ideas and how they wanted the miniature to look. Culminating in a "fine, if you want it like that, here you go.." Unfortunately, the sculptor doesn't always have a completely free reign over how the miniature will look, and sometimes they have to make something that is flawed as a concept and arguably impossible to realise (without it looking goofy!)

Leave Catachans alone, you meanies. They not THAT bad, the paintjob in the pic is just horrible. Some arms have weird musculature, but most look really close to meaty but not fat-free BBs, but with heroic scale heads and legs. Compare them to other kits of the time and END THE PERSECUTION.

(Sorry, but Catachans are my favourite regiment besides Mordians and I hate how people treat them as a laughing stock )

Binabik15 wrote:
They not THAT bad,

If you have to say "they're not that bad", that's basically admission that, "yes, they are".

And really, if you like Catachans, you should be hunting down the metals, not the defending the plastics. The metals were actually decent.

 Taarnak wrote:

Yes. I can. All of the stuff on that list is bad to mediocre. You folks disagree and that's fine. Anyway, like I said, we can continue via PM if you like.
~Eric

That's an interesting assertion. It's 2015, so let's check out a little bit of Naismith's resume for the past five years.
Victrix's Napoleonics are the equal to Perry's; Naismith sculpted the entire Austrian range at the very least. Both Victrix and Perry are unequaled in the combination of sculpting quality and dollar value in the plastics miniatures market.
Mantic's undead plastics are superior to any plastic undead on the market.

I'm actually left wondering who, other than the Perry brothers and Bob Naismith, can actually sculpt good organic plastics? GW left that realm a long time ago; the Empire 7th edition plastic infantry were the beginning of the decline with atrocious human sculpts. Adam Poots' Kingdom Death plastics are fantastic, but have had a multi-year lead time with multiple millions of bucks and still aren't released yet, and you have to like the style (giant, giant lady hips). Wargames Factory has the best 3D sculpted plastic humans on the market (the phenomenal AWI range, putting all other 3D sculpts to shame). So that leaves us with Perry Bros and Naismith for traditional 3up plastic sculpting and Wargames Factory as the best 3D sculpting.


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 Manchu wrote:
Naismith's work ranges from (IMO) terrible to excellent. Speculating as to where the Terminator miniatures will fall on that wide of a spectrum is pointless

Terrible to excellent, pretty much going in order from 30 years ago to most recent. Let me see, 30 years ago the software I wrote was non-existent; now it's used to manage ten thousand customers and ship several hundred thousand packages per year. I would say I have improved over 30 years

As an aside, specifically his and Perry's Napoleonic sculpts are what make me keep teetering and tottering from smaller micro scale Naps to 28mm.

... unless all you want to do is run down a sculptor, which is also pointless.

Which is effectively what this thread has become.

Especially with now most of a page referencing the Perry's first plastic GW kits?


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Oh jam, I just discovered Naismith sculpted Victrix's absolutely fantastic Hoplites



and the Warlord celts

If only there were some pictures of the actual product to settle all debate...

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
If only there were some pictures of the actual product to settle all debate...

If only we could send someone back in time to take screenshots and alter this timeline...

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
If only there were some pictures of the actual product to settle all debate...

And you know full well that there won't be until more previews from the movie surface.

And the point at which we question the decision for Genisys to feature Terminator midgets that ride mini hobby horses

Which is why it's kinda silly to be worked up over sculpting.

They're doing question or two of the week on the facebook group

Q. Mtt Adlard asked about the figure count and as to if the Game is Skirmish or Battle.
A. Well at release "The BOX" will have enough models to happily play as a Skirmish Game, the rules however allow bigger games to be played.

Q. Tom Robinson asked about the materials for the models, Plastic, Resin, Metal.
A. Simple answer Tom is Yes, currently all of the above. "The BOX" will be very nice hard plastic from the guru's at Renedra. MOST of it sculpted by Bob Naismith.........

Feed is now live!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ons6rqEtxKY

Just started! Get your screen caps ready!

IYes!

'm at work, so I can't watch this - but someone please, screencaps of the miniatures, please!

Thanks!

Terminators are three-piece models: Legs, Torso/upper body, and arms/weapon

Human Resistance two pieces: body/legs/head, and modular arms/weapon (akin to recent Bolt Action plastics)

Resistance figures look great (to me) very much Last Army style, some fatigues, pieces of armor, lots of different weapon options - rifles, plasma rifles, rocket launchers

Alessio showing off a FATE die right now


Automatically Appended Next Post:
FATE die is a FATE, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2 (or was it FATE, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2?) dice, activation/initiative die, FATE is 0, so you get 0-2 activations per round, usually 1, basically allowing alternating activations but with a chance of zero or 2.

From the podcast:

"Fate" Dice: 1-1-1 2-2 Fate

4 basic bodies (head, torso&legs; 1 girl),
5 sets of arms (1 ML, 1 pistols, 3 rifles).
mix and match!

Activation by die:
1, 2 or 0 (fate)

Looks like this is going to be good, as it's custom d6s with small numbers.

initial endoskeletons and resistance figures are hard plastic, Renedra, obviously

Kyle Reese is a resin figure... heroes in resin apparently

License is GeniSys ONLY.

license is for Genisys ONLY. no previous Terminator films.

only stuff in Genisys films (or concept art) allowed, though showing concepts for new endoskeleton types (one looked like a T-600 with underslung rotary cannon)

One in four resistance models will be female.

River Horse has received permission to use some of its own concepts for Terminators (e.g., with flamethrowers or missile arms).

Expansions will include present day (i.e., Sarah Conner) as well as future miniatures.

T-1000 will be in metal.

Time Displacement Device - each player has one marker, boils down to a re-roll as previously posted ITT. Can buy up to five more. Opponent can spend token to attempt (roll-off) to cancel re-roll.

Warlord will cast some resin miniatures for this game.


16 resistance (including heavy weapons), Reese, 10 terminators, 5 crawlers, 13 dice, 2+ sheets of counters, playing mat (3' x 2') - a paper one but a nicer one will be available separately, terrain pieces, full color rulebook with scenarios and army lists, reference sheet, starter guide

70GBP

less expensive one (50-55 GBP) excludes rulebook and kyle reese model, not sure if this edition will happen

Resistance comes in green plastic, terminators in silver plastic

1/4 of resistance force can be from terminator side (hacking, capturing, etc)

resistance can be taken for terminators as well as collaborators

and it's over!

Was hoping for clarification on the terrain pieces (plastic? destroyed buildings? modular? how much?)

 Alex C wrote:
However, I was mistakenly under the impression the game would take place before the acquisition of plasma rifles, and have since said that it makes more sense now.

The resistance does have Plasma Rifles.

Since Arnold is in the movie, depending on if the movie shows him as Arnold, damaged or an exo-version. They do have access to an older and younger version of him in the movie. So it is possible they could also have his metal form (unless they change his model of that version which they could, since this is sort of alternate but same time). Hinted at something with infiltrators, it didn't sound like he was referring to the T-1000.