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10 Termies vs. 17 humans?

Either they're trashing the established effectiveness of Terminators or they don't want the humans to win. Ever.

And why use 5 fething kinds of dice?

Excitement waning on this one...

Or the humans have plasma weaponry and it is set in the future as opposed to the present (or late 80s early 90s)

The humies did pretty well killing the skeleton troops in the future parts of the movies. They just didnt have the mass production abilities that skynet had.

 Alex C wrote:
And why use 5 fething kinds of dice?

It depends on what the dice do and how they are implementing them but it isn't necessarily that bad. Dice typically represents a number, then you refer to a stat card or another book to determine if something succeeds. Lately dice have been used for much more to represent traits, classes and keeping all stats and necessary numbers contained to the dice and character card. It can make things much more streamlined, at least that is how it felt when I was playing Star Wars: Imperial Assault with black, blue, red, yellow and green dice.

Finding it weird hearing Fox is involved. Thought this film was by Paramount Pictures.

I know Ambush Alley/Force on Force use different die types to represent different levels of a trait, and their 'almost universal rule' a player needs to roll 4s or higher for success. So a D10 has a better chance than a D6 for example. It works decently, instead of modifiers you can use a die type shift.

Perhaps this uses a similar mechanism?

PomWallaby wrote:
Finding it weird hearing Fox is involved. Thought this film was by Paramount Pictures.

Me too, the IMDB page credits only Paramount and Skydance
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1340138/companycredits?ref_=tt_dt_co#distributors

Fox had very limited distribution rights on the first 2 films only as far as I can tell.

PomWallaby wrote:
Finding it weird hearing Fox is involved. Thought this film was by Paramount Pictures.

The new film is from Paramount Pictures and I don't believe Fox have ever had any real involvement except for the Sarah Conner tv series so I can't see them having anything at all to do with this game which hopefully means it won't run into as many problems as AvP.

NoggintheNog wrote:
I watched it.

*snip*.

Thanks mate - I missed this due to work - will add this to the OP though

 Alex C wrote:
Excitement waning on this one...

The nice thing is that this will go regular retail. No worries about KS exclusives or any of that nonsense. You probably have time to wait for the reviews.

 Alex C wrote:
10 Termies vs. 17 humans?

Either they're trashing the established effectiveness of Terminators or they don't want the humans to win. Ever.

And why use 5 fething kinds of dice?

Excitement waning on this one...

He said it would be incredibly tough for the humans, but they have a hero, and the terminators do not. The hero isn't some all powerful thing, in combat not much more effective than normal models, but what they add is command and control flexibility, that is, they can affect the activation sequence, which makes them tactically powerful. The Human plastics also have a wide choice of weaponry as well.

The various dice are because the game is intended to be streamlined, so there are no modifiers. Instead, your untrained human survivor would roll a D4 for their actions, militia a D8, and trained soldiers a D12, with machines always using a D20. This is how skill level is reflected in the mechanics.

Edit to add: He also mentioned that there is a mechanic for knocking the terminators down, and once on the floor, the human can get in and shoot them in the face to kill them much more easily, so there are various game mechanics to represent what we have seen in the movies.

That sounds brilliant - thanks for making it make sense to a stone cold D6er (soon to be D20er when I start Infinity)

NoggintheNog wrote:

 Alex C wrote:
10 Termies vs. 17 humans?

Either they're trashing the established effectiveness of Terminators or they don't want the humans to win. Ever.

And why use 5 fething kinds of dice?

Excitement waning on this one...

He said it would be incredibly tough for the humans, but they have a hero, and the terminators do not. The hero isn't some all powerful thing, in combat not much more effective than normal models, but what they add is command and control flexibility, that is, they can affect the activation sequence, which makes them tactically powerful. The Human plastics also have a wide choice of weaponry as well.

The various dice are because the game is intended to be streamlined, so there are no modifiers. Instead, your untrained human survivor would roll a D4 for their actions, militia a D8, and trained soldiers a D12, with machines always using a D20. This is how skill level is reflected in the mechanics.

Edit to add: He also mentioned that there is a mechanic for knocking the terminators down, and once on the floor, the human can get in and shoot them in the face to kill them much more easily, so there are various game mechanics to represent what we have seen in the movies.

Thanks for the explanation, makes more sense now

NoggintheNog wrote:
I watched it.

The boxed starter game will be 10 terminators versus 16 humans plus human hero.

Models are hard plastic, done by renedra, they only showed the terminators, they look a little static but were decent quality.

Heroes for both sides will likely be resin.

Besides the starter box, there will be hero clampacks and boxed additional plastic forces, with larger models such as vehicles coming later.

The game used poly dice, d4, 8, 12 and 20's, plus another dice he called a 'fate dice' (custom D6) to determine activation order. He designed bolt Action so think of a variation on that sort of turn mechanism.

Game will be out to coincide with the movie release which is july.

No screen capture of the terminators?

Thanks for the info, though!

Still interested. Seems that plenty of info came out in the end. Pleased to hear the official correction that Fox have no involment, Skydance/Paramount can learn from their experience. I like the sound of the game so far. May be a good opportunity to use my buckets of Deadzone and Mars Attacks scenery on the same board. Skynet compounds and Judgement Day ruins.

The mechanics sound incredibly simple, almost too much so, but I guess that would increase it's appeal to a wider audience.

I wouldn't be suprised if the Terminators come cast in a silver grey plastic.

There is not enough information about the mechanics to judge them as simple. Seems like all we know is that different kinds of units roll checks on different kinds of dice. If anything, it would be more simple if all units rolled all checks on the same kind of dice (e.g., as in many games, D6s).

 Alex C wrote:
10 Termies vs. 17 humans?

Either they're trashing the established effectiveness of Terminators or they don't want the humans to win. Ever.

And why use 5 fething kinds of dice?

Excitement waning on this one...

Please reference a moment in any Future War scene where humans with plasma rifles are not murdering Infiltrators. Ref the opening scene of Terminator 2, which is Skynet's last stand.

The series 800 Infiltrator Terminators are not front line combat machines. As has been referenced in this thread on multiple occasions, the only reason they see battlefield use is when Skynet is losing.

Last Army resistance infantry are humans and can therefore move, hide, and are more agile than Infiltrators. Infiltrators are more robust, but are slower. A 16:10 ratio is probably about right.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Alex C wrote:
10 Termies vs. 17 humans?

Either they're trashing the established effectiveness of Terminators or they don't want the humans to win. Ever.

And why use 5 fething kinds of dice?

Excitement waning on this one...

Please reference a moment in any Future War scene where humans with plasma rifles are not murdering Infiltrators. Ref the opening scene of Terminator 2, which is Skynet's last stand.

The series 800 Infiltrator Terminators are not front line combat machines. As has been referenced in this thread on multiple occasions, the only reason they see battlefield use is when Skynet is losing.

Last Army resistance infantry are humans and can therefore move, hide, and are more agile than Infiltrators. Infiltrators are more robust, but are slower. A 16:10 ratio is probably about right.

I'm well aware.

However, I was mistakenly under the impression the game would take place before the acquisition of plasma rifles, and have since said that it makes more sense now.

 Alex C wrote:


However, I was mistakenly under the impression the game would take place before the acquisition of plasma rifles, and have since said that it makes more sense now.

My mistake for replying before reading the rest of the thread!

 Manchu wrote:
There is not enough information about the mechanics to judge them as simple. Seems like all we know is that different kinds of units roll checks on different kinds of dice. If anything, it would be more simple if all units rolled all checks on the same kind of dice (e.g., as in many games, D6s).

I've played a few different games where the dice are bumped up or down, instead of using modifiers to target numbers or the rolls themselves. It works, and is usually a design decision to simplify and speed up resolution. Unless you are playing a Margeret Wiess game, like Marvel Heroic Role Playing, where she murders this mechanic, or the Fantasy Fiight Star Wars games where the dice have symbols instead of numbers.

It doesn't have to getty messy and complicated. Instead of adding additional d6 to resolve, you up the die code instead.

d4 instead of 1d6
d6 instead of 2d6
d8 instead of 3d6
d10 instead of 4d6
d12 instead of 5d6
d20 instead of 6d6

Roll applicable dice, compare results, highest roll wins.

Random Human d4
Militia d8
Trained soldiers D12
Machines D20

5 soldiers shooting at 5 T700s becomes roll 5d12 and 5d20 and compare results.

Let's say John Conner, as a hero, has an inspiring leadership ability that grants a +1 bonus to allied troops withing 6".
This could either be resolved as a +1 to rolls themselves, or a +1 bump in die codes, likely the latter.

So 5 Militia, normally d8s, lead by John Conner roll d10s.

Throw in a simple damge mechanics like

Attack Roll greater than Defense Roll = target Knocked Down

Attack Roll Twice the Defense Roll = target Destroyed

Some simple modifiers

Shooting at Knocked Down target +1 die code

Combined action +1 die Code

So those same 5 Militia, lead by John Conner, all target a lone knocked down T700.
D8s become d10s because of inspring.
Those d10's decome d12s for combining their actions.
The d12s become d20s because the T700 is knocked down

And you end up with a game where you only roll 1 die per model, but a lot of tactical flecibility and depth

Man, I just designed a game right there. Need to put that in a pdf....

Are we actually sure that all the endoskeletons will actually be 800 series Terminators? Even if they are, there is a chance that some of those Endoskeletons might be counted as reprogramed resistance Terminators. 17 Humans and 1 Terminator against 9 terminators does seem a lot more fair.

If I remember my Terminator lore here is what could appear:


T-1 : mini-tank with two chainguns (as seen in T3 and Terminator Salvation)

T-400 series: Simple endoskeleton with a Kevlar-like padding to give some protection from small arms fire. Had the nickname "scarecrow" after Kevlar gets raggedy from hits

T-500 Series: I forget the basics on this one

T-600 Series: Rudimentary infiltration unit. Looked somewhat human and could pass as human....from a distance. Rubber skin, would be large for a human. (As seen in Terminator Salvation)

T-700 Series: Human looking endoskeleton. Basic Infantry unit. Could be pressed into service as an infiltrator (better than 600, worse than 800) Tough enough to withstand small arms fire, but heavier conventional weapons could take them out (seen in Terminator Salvation)

T-800: Series (The Arnold we all know and love) Tougher and with a better processor than the 700 series. Conventional weapons almost useless against them (unless extremely large caliber). As seen in original Terminator.

T-800 mark 2: Update of the base 800 series. Frictionless bearings added to joints, slightly heavier frontal armor, better software, and an added plasma fuel cell for redundancy in power supply. Also added a power capacitor so it could "get pumped up" for short periods of time of boosted strength and speed. (this model was used as the Arnold in T-2)

T-850: A reworking of the 800 series that still used many of the same components, including the skin. Added even more frontal armor than the 800 mark 2 to withstand plasma blasts that were becoming more common in the resistance. It had better software. The Plasma fuel cells were replaced with Hydrogen fuel cells for more power. An access panel on the front was added for ease of self-repair. (this was the Arnold from T-3)

T-888: An minor tweek to the 850 series (Terminator the Series)

T-900 Series: Advanced prototype infiltration unit. Created to remove some of the weaknesses of the 800 series. Stronger, faster, smarter, and with less "open" area around the neck and abdomen. Actuators are hidden behind armor instead of exposed like in the 800 series. (Briefly shown in T-3)

T-1000 Series: liquid metal, but lacking the ability for Skynet to directly control them, thus they were constantly in a self-learn mode. Some were known to switch sides without reprogramming as they had learned morality.

T-X (as seen in T-3) Seen as the best of both the 900 and 1000 Series. Could still be directly controlled by Skynet while still having some degree of flexibility with appearance. Much more resilient to plasma weapons than any other previous model.

T-1,000,000: Basically a one-off prototype used to guard Skynet's core processor. Little more than a giant T-1000 (as seen in the Termintor: the Experience at Universal Studios)

It's a pretty good bet that this game will be based on whatever background is generated for the GeniSys film rather than what has come before in previous movies, video games, TV shows, card games, etc.

Sure, but the T8xx is iconic, so there will have to be something along those lines. If not, it's all for nothing

The T800 is indeed iconic -- as an unstoppable killing machine (in 1984 and 1995). It is not iconic as a pushover last ditch effort, even if that is shown in T2 or was supposed to be shown. In other words, how the T800 is popularly perceived is probably not a good indication of what we should expect from the game. I would also argue, how the T800 is portrayed in T1 and T2 is probably not a good indication of what we should expect from a game called GeniSys.

I expect the difference between the game and the movies done for balance and fun to be similar to how space marines differ from the fluff and the game. In the game, they're roughly the equivalent (in points and power) of 3-4 stock guardsmen. In the fluff, I believe the ratio is around 100:1 instead when other factors are included (like deployment, backup, etc). In this case (as with all games), "fluff" should play second fiddle to fun and balance. It's not fun for most folks to field 2-3 terminators against a dozen or more humans (or vice versa) as the terminators could die in just a small handful of unlucky rolls or be invulnerable because of missing a few that they statistically should have failed (like rolling no 1's for space marine terminator saves in 12 armor saves).

I pretty much agree, warboss. I feel the same way about even historical games. If I want a detailed, accurate depiction of a historical battle, I will read reputable academic texts on said battle. If I want to see T800s do whatever they do in the movie, I will watch the movie. That said, these kind of games trade on being "based on" something. WW2 Italian tanks should not be fantastic in a war game just for the sake of balance. T800s i the game should reasonably approximate however they are portrayed in GeniSys -- that is what I would say is Priority Number One. Priority Number Two is balance.

All I really know for sure is that there will definitely be some cross-game usage of models for me. Necrons in Genysis and HK tanks in 40K games.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Are we actually sure that all the endoskeletons will actually be 800 series Terminators? Even if they are, there is a chance that some of those Endoskeletons might be counted as reprogramed resistance Terminators. 17 Humans and 1 Terminator against 9 terminators does seem a lot more fair.

If I remember my Terminator lore here is what could appear:


T-1 : mini-tank with two chainguns (as seen in T3 and Terminator Salvation)

T-400 series: Simple endoskeleton with a Kevlar-like padding to give some protection from small arms fire. Had the nickname "scarecrow" after Kevlar gets raggedy from hits

T-500 Series: I forget the basics on this one

T-600 Series: Rudimentary infiltration unit. Looked somewhat human and could pass as human....from a distance. Rubber skin, would be large for a human. (As seen in Terminator Salvation)

T-700 Series: Human looking endoskeleton. Basic Infantry unit. Could be pressed into service as an infiltrator (better than 600, worse than 800) Tough enough to withstand small arms fire, but heavier conventional weapons could take them out (seen in Terminator Salvation)

T-800: Series (The Arnold we all know and love) Tougher and with a better processor than the 700 series. Conventional weapons almost useless against them (unless extremely large caliber). As seen in original Terminator.

T-800 mark 2: Update of the base 800 series. Frictionless bearings added to joints, slightly heavier frontal armor, better software, and an added plasma fuel cell for redundancy in power supply. Also added a power capacitor so it could "get pumped up" for short periods of time of boosted strength and speed. (this model was used as the Arnold in T-2)

T-850: A reworking of the 800 series that still used many of the same components, including the skin. Added even more frontal armor than the 800 mark 2 to withstand plasma blasts that were becoming more common in the resistance. It had better software. The Plasma fuel cells were replaced with Hydrogen fuel cells for more power. An access panel on the front was added for ease of self-repair. (this was the Arnold from T-3)

T-888: An minor tweek to the 850 series (Terminator the Series)

T-900 Series: Advanced prototype infiltration unit. Created to remove some of the weaknesses of the 800 series. Stronger, faster, smarter, and with less "open" area around the neck and abdomen. Actuators are hidden behind armor instead of exposed like in the 800 series. (Briefly shown in T-3)

T-1000 Series: liquid metal, but lacking the ability for Skynet to directly control them, thus they were constantly in a self-learn mode. Some were known to switch sides without reprogramming as they had learned morality.

T-X (as seen in T-3) Seen as the best of both the 900 and 1000 Series. Could still be directly controlled by Skynet while still having some degree of flexibility with appearance. Much more resilient to plasma weapons than any other previous model.

T-1,000,000: Basically a one-off prototype used to guard Skynet's core processor. Little more than a giant T-1000 (as seen in the Termintor: the Experience at Universal Studios)

If you're including the Terminator Experience, then you've left out the Cyberdyne Series 70/T-70 Autonomous Infantry. They're just as canon as the T-1,000,00.

I believe thers also 5 terminator 'torsos' for battle damaged troops, a paper playing mat and some card buildings.

The time travel mechanic is just a reroll action.

 Barzam wrote:
They're just as canon as the T-1,000,00.

So ... not at all?

This idea of canon is ... misguided. We're talking about a setting created to support commercialized storytelling and ... well, commercial exploitation of the resulting product. Given the product name here, we can reasonably surmise that any notion of "canon" (and I'm not sure there is an official policy or even who would be in the position to declare as much) is out of the window. GeniSys is being marketed as a reboot.