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2015/01/22 19:24:16
Subject: Terminator Genisys Miniature Game - Coming Summer 2015
Depending on the price, I could well be tempted by this one. So long as all the relevant dice are included the mechanic seems fine, Pulp Alley uses something very similar and it works rather nicely from what I've read.
edlowe wrote: The time travel mechanic is just a reroll action.
Hmm, that's simple enough, but it could have been more unique.
It shouldn't be a mechanic. The right way to include time travel would be to have two or three mini campaigns in the box that influence the later campaigns - like how Cyberdyne's recovery of the T-800 arm and chip in the T1 timeline allowed Skynet to develop the T-1000 in the T2 timeline. Maybe a minor Skynet victory in the first campaign means John Connor dies before the second campaign. Things like that.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
2015/01/22 19:50:52
Subject: Re:Terminator Genisys Miniature Game - Coming Summer 2015
cuda1179 wrote: Are we actually sure that all the endoskeletons will actually be 800 series Terminators? Even if they are, there is a chance that some of those Endoskeletons might be counted as reprogramed resistance Terminators. 17 Humans and 1 Terminator against 9 terminators does seem a lot more fair.
If I remember my Terminator lore here is what could appear:
Spoiler:
T-1 : mini-tank with two chainguns (as seen in T3 and Terminator Salvation)
T-400 series: Simple endoskeleton with a Kevlar-like padding to give some protection from small arms fire. Had the nickname "scarecrow" after Kevlar gets raggedy from hits
T-500 Series: I forget the basics on this one
T-600 Series: Rudimentary infiltration unit. Looked somewhat human and could pass as human....from a distance. Rubber skin, would be large for a human. (As seen in Terminator Salvation)
T-700 Series: Human looking endoskeleton. Basic Infantry unit. Could be pressed into service as an infiltrator (better than 600, worse than 800) Tough enough to withstand small arms fire, but heavier conventional weapons could take them out (seen in Terminator Salvation)
T-800: Series (The Arnold we all know and love) Tougher and with a better processor than the 700 series. Conventional weapons almost useless against them (unless extremely large caliber). As seen in original Terminator.
T-800 mark 2: Update of the base 800 series. Frictionless bearings added to joints, slightly heavier frontal armor, better software, and an added plasma fuel cell for redundancy in power supply. Also added a power capacitor so it could "get pumped up" for short periods of time of boosted strength and speed. (this model was used as the Arnold in T-2)
T-850: A reworking of the 800 series that still used many of the same components, including the skin. Added even more frontal armor than the 800 mark 2 to withstand plasma blasts that were becoming more common in the resistance. It had better software. The Plasma fuel cells were replaced with Hydrogen fuel cells for more power. An access panel on the front was added for ease of self-repair. (this was the Arnold from T-3)
T-888: An minor tweek to the 850 series (Terminator the Series)
T-900 Series: Advanced prototype infiltration unit. Created to remove some of the weaknesses of the 800 series. Stronger, faster, smarter, and with less "open" area around the neck and abdomen. Actuators are hidden behind armor instead of exposed like in the 800 series. (Briefly shown in T-3)
T-1000 Series: liquid metal, but lacking the ability for Skynet to directly control them, thus they were constantly in a self-learn mode. Some were known to switch sides without reprogramming as they had learned morality.
T-X (as seen in T-3) Seen as the best of both the 900 and 1000 Series. Could still be directly controlled by Skynet while still having some degree of flexibility with appearance. Much more resilient to plasma weapons than any other previous model.
T-1,000,000: Basically a one-off prototype used to guard Skynet's core processor. Little more than a giant T-1000 (as seen in the Termintor: the Experience at Universal Studios)
Not to go too far afield, but was the Cameron terminator from Chronicles an 800-series model, or a completely bespoke/experimental unit?
Of course, balance between sides is a hard thing to pin down when (as noted) some terminator units are notable for having switched sides (or being repurposed, as it were).
There's several different "canons" for the Terminator franchise because so many different forces were pulling in multiple directions, some with very little understanding of what they were doing. (multiple films, the TV series, novels, comic books, video games, etc)
However, the most accepted is all Cameron canon - Terminator, Terminator 2, and T2 3-D (Universal Studios).
But from the research I've done in the past few hours about Terminator Genisys, it appears the filmmakers have actually used Cameron's background as the basis for Genisys, including the use of the H-K Centurion and the Last Army battle at Skynet (sometimes referred to as Operation Chrono). Since the wargame will apparently be based solely on Future War engagements, I'm feeling pretty good about the background, even if the rest of the Genisys movie sucks balls.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/22 19:53:54
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
2015/01/22 19:57:09
Subject: Re:Terminator Genisys Miniature Game - Coming Summer 2015
Not to go too far afield, but was the Cameron terminator from Chronicles an 800-series model, or a completely bespoke/experimental unit?
It was never confirmed Cromartie scans her but can't identify her model but it's speculated that he is not aware of her as he was sent back in time before Cameron is created. Summer Glau said Cameron was a T888 although she seems to be later modified model her endoskeleton is similar to a T888 but smaller in size, other sources have her as a T900 or modified T900 but this is less likely as T900s are designed to fight other machines which Cameron is not suited to. Early promotional material has a TOK715 number for her but this may actually be the Skynet designation of Alison Young the human on whom Cameron's look is based.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/01/22 20:11:11
2015/01/22 19:58:41
Subject: Terminator Genisys Miniature Game - Coming Summer 2015
Most accepted by who? And is it "most accepted" as a closed canon or just as the basis? Honestly, these are ultimately rhetorical questions meant to show that talking about canon is useless except if one just want to demonstrate how much one knows about the property.
Anyhow, I do agree that the game will probably be good or bad entirely independently from whether the movie is good or bad. I have pretty high hopes for the game. The movie, however, oh dear.
Manchu wrote: The T800 is indeed iconic -- as an unstoppable killing machine (in 1984 and 1995). It is not iconic as a pushover last ditch effort, even if that is shown in T2 or was supposed to be shown. In other words, how the T800 is popularly perceived is probably not a good indication of what we should expect from the game.
Sort of. It's shown as "unstoppable" by normal small arms fire and impervious to injuries that would stop a normal human being. However, the series 800 model 101 Infiltrator in The Terminator is torn in half by a homemade pipe bomb. Now, certainly, it still continues it's attack, albeit heavily crippled. (We also see this in the FW scene in T2 when a mostly-crushed 800 is attempting to reach it's rifle before being destroyed by a Last Army soldier, who also has a plasma rifle)
Cameron background for the series 800 was to be undetectable by humans - hence the living tissue sheath - and infiltrate to Resistance nests to cause as much damage as possible. That being said, the Resistance were able to replace standard automatic rifles and other ballistic weapons over time with phased plasma rifles and other high-end gear captured from Skynet and from downed Infiltrators.
^^^ So what I am hoping is that the miniatures game takes this into consideration - where "Early War" Resistance humans armed with automatic rifles and such must put a lot of effort into downing endoskeletons, but "Late War" Last Army humans would have plentiful access to phased plasma weapons (Westinghouse M-27 Phased Plasma Battle Rifle, General Dynamics RBS-80 Phased Plasma Pulse Gun). In T-3 canon, this is the reason the series 850 upgrade exists (reinforced armor plates, dual power units, etc), due to the proliferation of phased plasma weapons and the relative ease they could destroy base model series 800 units. I hope the rules reflect the ability to "injure/degrade" an endoskeleton, whereas a kill is very hard, unless it's previously been injured (with phased plasma rifles having a much higher chance of causing a kill, whereas ballistics almost no chance of outright kill)
Interestingly the ubiquitous RPG is so plentiful and so useful that Resistance and Last Army members use them constantly. (think 1945 era Germany with how many Panzerfausts were distributed to the population) So fingers crossed the resistance humans have RPGs!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Manchu wrote: Most accepted by who? And is it "most accepted" as a closed canon or just as the basis? Honestly, these are ultimately rhetorical questions meant to show that talking about canon is useless except if one just want to demonstrate how much one knows about the property.
Most Accepted by fandom, in the same way Aliens fandom pretty much ignore everything after Alien/Aliens especially AvP movies and Prometheus.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/22 20:09:20
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
2015/01/22 20:10:25
Subject: Terminator Genisys Miniature Game - Coming Summer 2015
I wonder how many of the Last Army soldiers will be armed with Phased Plasma as opposed to ballistic weaponry. Or if the terminators included in the box will even be T800s as opposed to some new mark made up for GeniSys.
Manchu wrote: I wonder how many of the Last Army soldiers will be armed with Phased Plasma as opposed to ballistic weaponry. Or if the terminators included in the box will even be T800s as opposed to some new mark made up for GeniSys.
I'm hoping for generic resistance guys with lots of weapon options. (I will buy a billion of them) We do see plenty of shots of Future War with series 800, Aerial-HK, and HK-Centurions in the trailer, so I'd put money on those appearing in the miniatures game.
"...and special thanks to Judgedoug!" - Alessio Cavatore "Now you've gone too far Doug! ... Too far... " - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke
2015/01/22 20:16:08
Subject: Terminator Genisys Miniature Game - Coming Summer 2015
DaveC wrote: Well Mars Attacks has the trucks covered if it comes to it.
And some very cool wrecked cars I'm very much considering a dedicated board for this, if only I could get enough skulls for the ground I'd go for something like this:
Spoiler:
http://thelaughterofthedamned.blogspot.co.uk/
2015/01/22 20:51:08
Subject: Terminator Genisys Miniature Game - Coming Summer 2015
Mostly intrigued by the possibilities of the Resistance models. I wonder how long it will take before we find out exactly what they mean by "28mm"(Infinity-esque 28mm truescale? GW heroic 28mm? Bolt Action heroic 28mm? actually-32mm-but-don't-want-to-say-so 28mm? etc etc).
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
2015/01/22 21:32:31
Subject: Re:Terminator Genisys Miniature Game - Coming Summer 2015
Terminator is locked in a predestination loop, and it happens a little different each time.
T2 has the terminator remains from T1 as the basis for Skynet. destroys them and the creator to end judgement day.
T3 Judgement Day happens anyway. John Conner is less bad ass, and more of the guy in Central Command. Dies in this version of the future.
Teminator Experience has a few models of Terminators not seen in other time lines
Termiantor Salvation, John Conner is now Batman, Giant Harvester Robots, snake robots, and motorcycle robots added
Terminator Sarah Conner Chronicles establishes that Skynet has a multitude of possible origins, is essentially inevitable.
Dark Horse Comics commits to the idea that judgement day happens, Resistance wins, Skynet sends back more terminators before getting destroyed, cycle repeats .
In one time line Robocop defeats Skynet with an army of T800 Robocops
judgedoug wrote: There's several different "canons" for the Terminator franchise because so many different forces were pulling in multiple directions, some with very little understanding of what they were doing. (multiple films, the TV series, novels, comic books, video games, etc)
However, the most accepted is all Cameron canon - Terminator, Terminator 2, and T2 3-D (Universal Studios).
But from the research I've done in the past few hours about Terminator Genisys, it appears the filmmakers have actually used Cameron's background as the basis for Genisys, including the use of the H-K Centurion and the Last Army battle at Skynet (sometimes referred to as Operation Chrono). Since the wargame will apparently be based solely on Future War engagements, I'm feeling pretty good about the background, even if the rest of the Genisys movie sucks balls.
Funny thing is, the future war would happen regardless of the canon. The Connors didn't destroy all of the original T-800. All they got was the arm and chip. When Kyle blew the T-800 in half, its lower body was mostly left intact. If Cyberdyne had the arm and chip, they probably had the legs, too. So there was still a fair bit of the T-800 left to reverse engineer.
adamsouza wrote: Terminator is locked in a predestination loop, and it happens a little different each time.
T2 has the terminator remains from T1 as the basis for Skynet. destroys them and the creator to end judgement day.
T3 Judgement Day happens anyway. John Conner is less bad ass, and more of the guy in Central Command. Dies in this version of the future.
Teminator Experience has a few models of Terminators not seen in other time lines
Termiantor Salvation, John Conner is now Batman, Giant Harvester Robots, snake robots, and motorcycle robots added
Terminator Sarah Conner Chronicles establishes that Skynet has a multitude of possible origins, is essentially inevitable.
Dark Horse Comics commits to the idea that judgement day happens, Resistance wins, Skynet sends back more terminators before getting destroyed, cycle repeats .
In one time line Robocop defeats Skynet with an army of T800 Robocops
for john conner to exist and beat skynet, skynet has to exist for him to be born. Skynet has to exist due to the timetravel which causes it to exist being created by skynet itself
http://thelaughterofthedamned.blogspot.co.uk/
2015/01/22 21:44:03
Subject: Re:Terminator Genisys Miniature Game - Coming Summer 2015
adamsouza wrote: The fluff appropriate Time Travel mechanic is every time it looks like the Resistance Player is about the win, you reset the game back to turn 1
And a T-800 switches sides
http://thelaughterofthedamned.blogspot.co.uk/
2015/01/22 21:48:34
Subject: Re:Terminator Genisys Miniature Game - Coming Summer 2015
adamsouza wrote: Terminator is locked in a predestination loop, and it happens a little different each time.
T2 has the terminator remains from T1 as the basis for Skynet. destroys them and the creator to end judgement day.
T3 Judgement Day happens anyway. John Conner is less bad ass, and more of the guy in Central Command. Dies in this version of the future.
Teminator Experience has a few models of Terminators not seen in other time lines
Termiantor Salvation, John Conner is now Batman, Giant Harvester Robots, snake robots, and motorcycle robots added
Terminator Sarah Conner Chronicles establishes that Skynet has a multitude of possible origins, is essentially inevitable.
Dark Horse Comics commits to the idea that judgement day happens, Resistance wins, Skynet sends back more terminators before getting destroyed, cycle repeats .
In one time line Robocop defeats Skynet with an army of T800 Robocops
adamsouza wrote: The fluff appropriate Time Travel mechanic is every time it looks like the Resistance Player is about the win, you reset the game back to turn 1
Didn't Terminator cross over with both Aliens and Predator at some point(and probably Batman, Superman, and Judge Dredd as well)? I fully expect someone to homebrew crossover rules.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/22 21:59:33
Barzam wrote: Didn't Terminator cross over with both Aliens and Predator at some point(and probably Batman, Superman, and Judge Dredd as well)? I fully expect someone to homebrew crossover rules.
(more)
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" - Rick Priestley "I've decided that I'd rather not have you as a member of TMP." - Editor, The Miniatures Page "I'd rather put my testicles through a mangle than spend any time gaming with you." - Richard, TooFatLardies "We need a Doug Craig in every store." - Warlord Games "Thank you for being here, Judge Doug!" - Adam Troke 
especially AvP movies and Prometheus.
-- $k 
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