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Post by: Matthew
After my recent epic failed Fandex, I want to flesh out some fluff, and for that I have a few questions:
Say a person with the same build and strength as a Marine stole parts of their power armour, would they be able to wear it? I'm talking about small parts, like pauldrons and greeves.
Could a person with the same build as a Marine use a Bolter without power armour?
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Post by: BrianDavion
 Matthew wrote:After my recent epic failed Fandex, I want to flesh out some fluff, and for that I have a few questions:
Say a person with the same build and strength as a Marine stole parts of their power armour, would they be able to wear it? I'm talking about small parts, like pauldrons and greeves.
Could a person with the same build as a Marine use a Bolter without power armour?
maybe use bits and peices as scavanged but they'd not be able to wear the full suit due to the black carapeice.
as for the bolter.. yeah sure, you don't need PA to fire a bolt gun.
that said, a PERSON with the same strength and build as an Astartes proably doesn't exist. not humans at any rate.
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Post by: Psienesis
Bolters are carried by all kinds of people. However, the size of an Astartes Bolter makes it decidedly unwieldy for a regular human to carry. For, say, an Ogryn, who is generally the same size as a Space Marine, wielding an Astartes bolter should pose no physical problem.
However, it is also noted that the war-spirit of an Astartes Bolter recognizes when a non-Astartes is wielding it, and gets offended. It may not function. Or it might just cook the rounds (all of the rounds) off in the chamber and blow your arm(s) off.
As far as piecing together bits of a broken suit of power armor? Well... maybe. On anyone not the same general size of a Space Marine, using the pauldrons is going to look real stupid, since these things are going to be huge on you. The rest of the armor simply won't fit. On, again, someone the same general size, yes, they could wear it, but they lack a Black Carapace, and so are hampered by the sheer bulk and size of the armor, and are not as nimble or dextrous as they would otherwise be... and are most certainly not on par with a Space Marine in Power Armor.
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Post by: Happyjew
I dunno, I mean SoBs appear to be rather nimble in their power armour, and they don't have the strength of a SM or the black carapace.
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Post by: Ashiraya
 Happyjew wrote:I dunno, I mean SoBs appear to be rather nimble in their power armour, and they don't have the strength of a SM or the black carapace.
...No, they don't?
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Post by: Furyou Miko
Happyjew wrote:I dunno, I mean SoBs appear to be rather nimble in their power armour, and they don't have the strength of a SM or the black carapace.
It's the difference between someone who is trained to use heavy armour, who knows how to account for its weight and presence... and someone whose kinaesthetic sense actually naturally adapts to where their armour is.
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Post by: BrianDavion
SOB armor is also of clearly lighter construction then astartes armor.
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Post by: DaKKaLAnce
Yeah, SOB use a different model than the SM. there is PA for humans out there....Just have to get lucky and kill/find the right person
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Post by: Furyou Miko
All the protective ability, none of the extraneous drivel. 
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Post by: Iron_Captain
It does make you look like a BDSM mistress though...
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Post by: Wyzilla
No, it quite clearly isn't. The abdomen is completely unarmored on sisters, and their power armor is thinner in such areas as the pauldrons.
Not to mention their bolters and other weapons are cut-down and smaller versions compared to Astartes gear. Without the augmented strength, humans can't wield weapons like bolters, astartes power fists, or probably the pauldrons.
However even with augmented strength, Astartes struggle to move in their armor if the power is cut.
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Post by: Spetulhu
 Psienesis wrote: For, say, an Ogryn, who is generally the same size as a Space Marine, wielding an Astartes bolter should pose no physical problem.
The ogryns are far larger and bulkier than the average marine - a bolter could well be too small for them to use. You might have to modify it with a larger grip and remove the trigger guard. The recoil itself shouldn't pose any problem to an ogryn, seeing as it also is far stronger and more resilient than said average marine.
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Post by: Zaki66
I thought there were difference versions of bolters, meant for different users. Like Space Marine bolters are significantly bigger than the IG or SoB counterparts.
Wasn't there that one piece of fluff that said a Marine bolter would blow a normal human's arms out of the his shoulders if he was stupid enough to fire it?
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Post by: BrianDavion
 Wyzilla wrote:
No, it quite clearly isn't. The abdomen is completely unarmored on sisters, and their power armor is thinner in such areas as the pauldrons.
Not to mention their bolters and other weapons are cut-down and smaller versions compared to Astartes gear. Without the augmented strength, humans can't wield weapons like bolters, astartes power fists, or probably the pauldrons.
However even with augmented strength, Astartes struggle to move in their armor if the power is cut.
for the record Light power armor in the FFG is noted as having an armor rating of 7 vs astartes which has a rating of 8, (obviously this is considered statisticly irrelevent on tabletop)
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Post by: farmersboy
 Zaki66 wrote:I thought there were difference versions of bolters, meant for different users. Like Space Marine bolters are significantly bigger than the IG or SoB counterparts.
Wasn't there that one piece of fluff that said a Marine bolter would blow a normal human's arms out of the his shoulders if he was stupid enough to fire it?
Don't go by the fluff, it's all over the place - originally bolters were supposed to be recoilless and fire caseless ammunition.
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Post by: Wyzilla
Zaki66 wrote:I thought there were difference versions of bolters, meant for different users. Like Space Marine bolters are significantly bigger than the IG or SoB counterparts.
Wasn't there that one piece of fluff that said a Marine bolter would blow a normal human's arms out of the his shoulders if he was stupid enough to fire it?
Considering Astartes Bolters are fully automatic .75 caliber assault rifles, yeah, they'd seriously feth up your entire body. Humans already can barely even fire .50 weapons from the hip, and can only use 20mm rifles mounted on bipods dug into the ground or on turrets.
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Post by: e.earnshaw
Talking about ogryns what would happen if you turned one of them into a marine?
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Post by: Bobthehero
Magnificent things, surely.
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Post by: Wyzilla
 e.earnshaw wrote:Talking about ogryns what would happen if you turned one of them into a marine?
It already happened. It was called Crackdown.
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Post by: BrianDavion
e.earnshaw wrote:Talking about ogryns what would happen if you turned one of them into a marine?
it's proably wouldn't work, given how picky geneseed is supposed to be I bet an abhuman with one wouldn't work.
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Post by: Furyou Miko
Wyzilla wrote:
No, it quite clearly isn't. The abdomen is completely unarmored on sisters, and their power armor is thinner in such areas as the pauldrons.
Not to mention their bolters and other weapons are cut-down and smaller versions compared to Astartes gear. Without the augmented strength, humans can't wield weapons like bolters, astartes power fists, or probably the pauldrons.
However even with augmented strength, Astartes struggle to move in their armor if the power is cut.
I am not fighting you over this again. The codex clearly states that the armour provides the same protection. The codex clearly states that their wargear is just as effective, in absolute terms, with that of the Astartes in every way, except for specifically noting that Sororitas power armour does not have the same life support capabilities.
You are still wrong.
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Post by: Ashiraya
And the SM codex says no one has authority over a Chapter Master, not even Super-Grand Inquisitor Lord Whateverus the Entitled, but people just disregard that.
I am not buying that SoB armour provides equal protection. Despite what the codex might think, I am not an idiot, and I am not blind either. 10 mm of steel provides less protection than 20 mm of steel, even if the smelter tells you otherwise. Ceramite is no different.
If it's so bothersome, consider the SoB codex to be Imperial propaganda.
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Post by: Furyou Miko
Your opinion doesn't count because you think Space Marines can walk through lava.
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Post by: Ashiraya
Naw.
Fire, yes.
Grenades, yes.
But lava does evil things to soft armour.
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Post by: j31c3n
Non-Astartes can wear power armor no problem. Inquisitors and Rogue Traders do it all the time. However, the lack of a Black Carapace will make them slower in the armor. Wearing parts of power armor isn't going to boost your strength, too. It's all or nothing (except the ever-so-cinematic helmet, of course).
If you lose power and you don't have Astartes implants and gene-conditioning, you're going to have a hell of a time moving. You might be stuck completely, depending on the model of armor.
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Post by: Furyou Miko
Well, no, all Imperial power armour will be practically impossible to move in without power.
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Post by: Ashiraya
 Furyou Miko wrote:Well, no, all Imperial power armour will be practically impossible to move in without power.
Not so.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
Psienesis wrote:However, it is also noted that the war-spirit of an Astartes Bolter recognizes when a non-Astartes is wielding it, and gets offended. It may not function. Or it might just cook the rounds (all of the rounds) off in the chamber and blow your arm(s) off.
Well, if an ork would put it, it would become an even better weapon because, unlike when used by a space marine, it would not need any maintenance whatsoever!
If your BDSM mistress looks like this:
then you are into some weird, very unusual kind of fetish that seems focused on baroque blingy shiny stuff.
Wyzilla wrote:No, it quite clearly isn't. The abdomen is completely unarmored on sisters
Cf just above. That does not seem “unarmored” to me. Or this:
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Post by: Mr Morden
 j31c3n wrote:Non-Astartes can wear power armor no problem. Inquisitors and Rogue Traders do it all the time. However, the lack of a Black Carapace will make them slower in the armor. Wearing parts of power armor isn't going to boost your strength, too. It's all or nothing (except the ever-so-cinematic helmet, of course).
If you lose power and you don't have Astartes implants and gene-conditioning, you're going to have a hell of a time moving. You might be stuck completely, depending on the model of armor.
There are examples of "humans" wearing bodygloves which include neural links which simulate to a greater or lesser degree the black carapace - as an Inquisitor Amberley Vail uses one when she wears her Artificer armour - Power fist and Hv Bolter equipped.....
The Sororitas armour is often referred to as equal in protection to the Astartes -but like the majority of things in 40k - whether you agree and accept is upto you.
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Post by: Xenomancers
obligatory - why would you steal anyone's power armor? It's really bad you know? Automatically Appended Next Post:  Ashiraya wrote:And the SM codex says no one has authority over a Chapter Master, not even Super-Grand Inquisitor Lord Whateverus the Entitled, but people just disregard that.
I am not buying that SoB armour provides equal protection. Despite what the codex might think, I am not an idiot, and I am not blind either. 10 mm of steel provides less protection than 20 mm of steel, even if the smelter tells you otherwise. Ceramite is no different.
If it's so bothersome, consider the SoB codex to be Imperial propaganda.
Well it doesn't confer the T4 to the sister which must be the explanation.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
 Xenomancers wrote:Well it doesn't confer the T4 to the sister which must be the explanation.
Scouts are proof the T4 does not come from the armor anyway.
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Post by: Xenomancers
They are in scout armor - somehow it confers 4t but reduces to a 4+ save. Maybe you are right - maybe t4 comes from being 9 feet tall - but the str4 comes from the power armor? Being huge has no effect on the str? It doesn't ad up to me.
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Post by: lcmiracle
This:  or this:  or even these:  Are just corset-wearing Dominatrix/BDSM club members. You call it aesthetics, I call it fan service. Automatically Appended Next Post: On the other hand, I think we are done about stolen PA here.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
Yeah, those were terrible designs.
No, that one is fine. Okay, it has boobplate and could be better without it, but that is certainly not looking in any way like anything BDSM. Automatically Appended Next Post: Xenomancers wrote:Maybe you are right - maybe t4 comes from being 9 feet tall - but the str4 comes from the power armor? Being huge has no effect on the str?
No. The power armor only gives a 3+. The fact it is powered just allow it to move (and let people that use it carry big weapons, like heavy flamers, heavy bolters, multi-melta and all that).
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Post by: Ashiraya
GW has chosen to not have PA add any Toughness, Strength or similar to models in their game.
It simply gives a 3+.
In the lore, however, it very much grants increased strength. And autosenses. And sealed from vacuum yada yada ad nauseam.
 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
No, that one is fine. Okay, it has boobplate and could be better without it, but that is certainly not looking in any way like anything BDSM.
Really now? Look at her.
If that belly armour is supposed to equal Astartes plate in protection then that SoB must be anorexic.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
Ashiraya wrote:Really now? Look at her.
If that belly armour is supposed to equal Astartes plate in protection then that SoB must be anorexic.
It is just better crafted, and removing the life support thingy that turn urine into a nutrient paste just free a lot of room  .
Okay, it should be bulkier. But it does not look BDSM by any rate.
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Post by: lcmiracle
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: Ashiraya wrote:Really now? Look at her. If that belly armour is supposed to equal Astartes plate in protection then that SoB must be anorexic.
It is just better crafted, and removing the life support thingy that turn urine into a nutrient paste just free a lot of room . Okay, it should be bulkier. But it does not look BDSM by any rate.
I never said that model looks BDSM, just it looks like it's wearing a tight corset Like I said, fan service.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
 lcmiracle wrote:I never said that model looks BDSM, just it looks like it's wearing a tight corset
lcmiracle wrote:Are just corset-wearing Dominatrix/BDSM club members. You call it aesthetics, I call it fan service.
Corset? Yes, it does look like a corset. Fanservice? Well, not that much imho. Especially given the terrible standards in this kind of science-fantasy.
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Post by: Wyzilla
Furyou Miko wrote: Wyzilla wrote: No, it quite clearly isn't. The abdomen is completely unarmored on sisters, and their power armor is thinner in such areas as the pauldrons. Not to mention their bolters and other weapons are cut-down and smaller versions compared to Astartes gear. Without the augmented strength, humans can't wield weapons like bolters, astartes power fists, or probably the pauldrons. However even with augmented strength, Astartes struggle to move in their armor if the power is cut.
I am not fighting you over this again. The codex clearly states that the armour provides the same protection. The codex clearly states that their wargear is just as effective, in absolute terms, with that of the Astartes in every way, except for specifically noting that Sororitas power armour does not have the same life support capabilities. You are still wrong.
Except the lore doesn't support you at all given that Sisters get utterly massecred by things Astartes would normally survive, or indeed be massecred by Astartes despite supposedly having the same quality armor (especially Flesh Tearers). Basing it all off game mechanic abstractions is both asinine and silly when the TT cannot properly represent anything, the armor is visibly thinner on sisters, their entire torso is unarmored by ceramite, and other sources such as FFG clearly state it being weaker, which makes sense given that the Sisters have watered down tech in the power armor and weapon deparment (especially power weapons). So no, you've never actually had any evidence, and rather have always just been clinging to a single line and game mechanic in one series of books where multiple other sources contradict it. When something is contradicted multiple times, and there is only one point of evidence you're relying on, it's far more likely that your "evidence" is simply an outlier and an exception to the rule, not the actual rule itself. Not to mention that given how Sisters power armor is skin-tight, it is already immediately inferior as it would protect far less against concussive force, and they don't have augmented bodies either. A heavy bolter shell fired at the chest would probably instantly kill the Sister form the kinetic energy alone while an Astartes would probably be able to walk that hit off given the thickness of Space Marine PA. Automatically Appended Next Post: Furyou Miko wrote:Your opinion doesn't count because you think Space Marines can walk through lava.
Actually, they have, and I can probably pull up quotes on the subject as well from the Tome of Fire series. And no, IIRC that image is of a Canoness, this is just a normal Sister from FFG. And it's not like it's FFG's invention, this here is from either the 4th or 5th Edition if I remember correctly. Note again the corset is not made of ceramite like the above or lower pieces. This appears to be a modern depiction trend of the Sisters, and it doesn't make much sense considering that doesn't look to be any more protective than Bridgadine armor from the 14th Century.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
Wyzilla wrote:Except the lore doesn't support you at all given that Sisters get utterly massecred by things Astartes would normally survive, or indeed be massecred by Astartes
Except when it is Sisters massacring Astartes.
Fluff!
Wyzilla wrote:Basing it all off game mechanic abstractions is both asinine and silly when the TT cannot properly represent anything
Yeah, and the fluff of Sisters is pretty clear that it provides the same level of protection.
Because you need to be bigger to be better.
*look at artificer armor*
Their torso is shaped to look like a corset. Does not mean it is not armored.
Wyzilla wrote:which makes sense given that the Sisters have watered down tech in the power armor and weapon deparment (especially power weapons).
Watered down tech? Where the hell did you get that? Actually, it is the opposite, courtesy of having tons of money and influence!
And that is why your opinion is irrelevant, I guess.
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Post by: phatonic
Oy wuzzall diz puny talk! Looted beakie armor is guud armor! Makes goof 'eavy armor it does!
(Srsly expected a ork to vissit sooner)
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Post by: Flinty
Wyzilla wrote: Zaki66 wrote:I thought there were difference versions of bolters, meant for different users. Like Space Marine bolters are significantly bigger than the IG or SoB counterparts.
Wasn't there that one piece of fluff that said a Marine bolter would blow a normal human's arms out of the his shoulders if he was stupid enough to fire it?
Considering Astartes Bolters are fully automatic .75 caliber assault rifles, yeah, they'd seriously feth up your entire body. Humans already can barely even fire .50 weapons from the hip, and can only use 20mm rifles mounted on bipods dug into the ground or on turrets.
Bolt rounds are bipropellant things with a soft launch charge to pop the round out of the weapon before the rocket motor kicks in. Any description of such weapons that suggests they have punishing recoil does not mesh well with the way they are supposed to work.
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Post by: Matthew
Xenomancers wrote:obligatory - why would you steal anyone's power armor? It's really bad you know?
Protection?
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Post by: Psienesis
Bragging rights. When you sit around the bar in **REDACTED - The MouseLord is more powerful than the legal army of GW** with the rest of the scum and villains, you can score free drinks for life telling the tale of how you swiped a Space Marine's power armor.
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Post by: Happyjew
Psienesis wrote:Bragging rights. When you sit around the bar in **REDACTED - The MouseLord is more powerful than the legal army of GW** with the rest of the scum and villains, you can score free drinks for life telling the tale of how you swiped a Space Marine's power armor.
Wait, why are you at the cantina in Mos Eisley Spaceport?
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Post by: Archonate
 phatonic wrote:Oy wuzzall diz puny talk! Looted beakie armor is guud armor! Makes goof 'eavy armor it does!
(Srsly expected a ork to vissit sooner)
Orks are the only ones that could make use of looted Power Armor. Because the technology is too heavy, too advanced, or too inefficient for the other races.
The only reason Orks are able to is because Orks are ALWAYS able to magically know how to use everything they touch...  The premise is so derpy, but expected when you try to cram a non-sci fi race into a sci fi setting.
"Ta daa! We can build portal guns and fly spaceships even though all we think about is swinging clubs!"
Such abysmally thought-out fluff...
But wearing Power Armor scraps is totally something they'd do.
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Post by: Psienesis
 Happyjew wrote: Psienesis wrote:Bragging rights. When you sit around the bar in **REDACTED - The MouseLord is more powerful than the legal army of GW** with the rest of the scum and villains, you can score free drinks for life telling the tale of how you swiped a Space Marine's power armor.
Wait, why are you at the cantina in Mos Eisley Spaceport?
Because that's where you go to brag about stealing power armor. Since just about everyone and their dog with the means can get a set in 40K, you have to go to another franchise's seedy dives to brag about it... and bragging that you bagged a set from another franchise is worth way more Cool Points.
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Post by: fallinq
Xenomancers wrote:obligatory - why would you steal anyone's power armor? It's really bad you know?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ashiraya wrote:And the SM codex says no one has authority over a Chapter Master, not even Super-Grand Inquisitor Lord Whateverus the Entitled, but people just disregard that.
I am not buying that SoB armour provides equal protection. Despite what the codex might think, I am not an idiot, and I am not blind either. 10 mm of steel provides less protection than 20 mm of steel, even if the smelter tells you otherwise. Ceramite is no different.
If it's so bothersome, consider the SoB codex to be Imperial propaganda.
Well it doesn't confer the T4 to the sister which must be the explanation.
SM's don't have T4 because of their armor. They have T4 because they have tougher skin, extra organs that keep them alive long after a normal human would have died, and a plated skeleton that is practically an extra suit of armor under their flesh. All this info has been printed in Index Astartes and online articles by GW. Astartes have T4 because they are literally physically tougher than normal humans. They're also physically stronger, which is why even scouts S4 despite having armor that isn't an exoskeleton and therefore couldn't boost their strength in any way. It's not the armor, it's the man inside.
And that corset design on Sororitas is either made of metal or has a metal plate underneath it. If it ain't a full body suit that completely covers the body and protects in the vacuum of space, it ain't Power Armour. Period. That is one of PA's defining characteristics. And Battle Sisters wear Power Armour. Insisting that it they're not armored on the belly because it "looks that way" to you, despite all the fluff to the contrary, is living in your own personal fanon. If you want to do that, more power to you, but don't expect sympathy when you try to "correct" others to your way of thinking.
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Post by: Keep
A full bodysuit is not all armour though... they still need to be able to move
The only reason Orks are able to is because Orks are ALWAYS able to magically know how to use everything they touch... The premise is so derpy, but expected when you try to cram a non-sci fi race into a sci fi setting.
That's the trait of their meks... IG are equally derpy, using WW1 tank designs and consider it the best of all, not beeing able to come up with different ways how to attach armor plates differently to make it better. 40k is pretty derpy all in all considered, orks dont fall out of place there
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Post by: dusara217
 Archonate wrote: phatonic wrote:Oy wuzzall diz puny talk! Looted beakie armor is guud armor! Makes goof 'eavy armor it does!
(Srsly expected a ork to vissit sooner)
Orks are the only ones that could make use of looted Power Armor. Because the technology is too heavy, too advanced, or too inefficient for the other races.
The only reason Orks are able to is because Orks are ALWAYS able to magically know how to use everything they touch... The premise is so derpy, but expected when you try to cram a non-sci fi race into a sci fi setting.
"Ta daa! We can build portal guns and fly spaceships even though all we think about is swinging clubs!"
Such abysmally thought-out fluff...
But wearing Power Armor scraps is totally something they'd do.
Honestly, if they had make the orks just really aggressive instead of utter morons, then they would have been fine in the 40k setting without needing to be the ultimate race of Psykers.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can somebody please explain to me why Sisters of Battle all get Artificer level crftmanship on their armour when Artificer armour takes centuries to produce? Makes no fething sense that their armour is as effective as SM Power Armour
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Post by: Keep
Aren't they really aggressive? Authors just like to use Orks for cramming some humor in there, or detract from their brutality by making it sound funny... but the nature of orks (especially most fantasy settings) is extremely violent all things considered. They murder, plunder, mutilate for the fun of it
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Post by: dusara217
 Keep wrote:Aren't they really aggressive? Authors just like to use Orks for cramming some humor in there, or detract from their brutality by making it sound funny... but the nature of orks (especially most fantasy settings) is extremely violent all things considered. They murder, plunder, mutilate for the fun of it
That's the way Works are meant to be, but then GW decided to cram in Ork "Kultur"
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Post by: Keep
even the most aggressive creatures need some form of society that binds them together, otherwise they would just tear each other apart the entire time.
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Post by: Ashiraya
 fallinq wrote: If it ain't a full body suit that completely covers the body and protects in the vacuum of space, it ain't Power Armour. Period
This is not the case.
This is very much power armour, and arguably far closer to SoB armour than SoB armour is to Astartes PA.
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Post by: dusara217
Keep wrote:even the most aggressive creatures need some form of society that binds them together, otherwise they would just tear each other apart the entire time.
I was referring to their society being completely and utterly retahded and making absolutely zero sense from an unbiased perspective.
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Post by: Keep
Ashiraya wrote: fallinq wrote: If it ain't a full body suit that completely covers the body and protects in the vacuum of space, it ain't Power Armour. Period
This is not the case.
This is very much power armour, and arguably far closer to SoB armour than SoB armour is to Astartes PA.
Where is the "power" in that armour? Power armour is driven by "electrically motivated fibre bundles", because it would be too heavy to wear otherwise. That's the whole point of it. This one does not have any of that. It's not a complete set, it's only the armor plating. Just armor plating doenst make an armored suit however. Used just like that it would only be carapace/plate armor.
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Post by: Ashiraya
Keep wrote: Ashiraya wrote: fallinq wrote: If it ain't a full body suit that completely covers the body and protects in the vacuum of space, it ain't Power Armour. Period
This is not the case.
This is very much power armour, and arguably far closer to SoB armour than SoB armour is to Astartes PA.
Where is the "power" in that armour? Power armour is driven by "electrically motivated fibre bundles", because it would be too heavy to wear otherwise. That's the whole point of it. This one does not have any of that. It's not a complete set, it's only the armor plating. Just armor plating doenst make an armored suit however. Used just like that it would only be carapace/plate armor.
Don't ask me. That suit is called 'Ignatus Power Armour' and I did not design it.
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Post by: fallinq
Ashiraya wrote: fallinq wrote: If it ain't a full body suit that completely covers the body and protects in the vacuum of space, it ain't Power Armour. Period
This is not the case.
This is very much power armour, and arguably far closer to SoB armour than SoB armour is to Astartes PA.
What's the original source for this image? It's been posted a couple times on this thread, but I'd never seen it before that. Is it even official GW? Who titled it as Power Armour? It looks like a drawing of the armor from a certain Inquisitor tabletop model. And Inquisitors don't all come default with Power Armour. Could very easily just be Carapace Armour. It looks closer to Scion armor than SoB armor to me. Where's the backpack power source that every single PA model on the tabletop, without exception, has?
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Post by: Ashiraya
It's from Dark Heresy: Ascension, so it's canon. Pages 143-144
Ignatus pattern power armours are all fine examples of Mechanicus artisans. Each of them are individuality crafted only for representatives of the Holy Inquisition. Of course not as durable as Adeptus Astartes power armours, the Ignatus-pattern is far better design than those sold to nobles, rogue traders and other agents of the Imperium. Like every other power armour variant, Ignatus too is made of thick ceramite armour plates and incorporated electro-muscles so the user can even use the power armour in the first place. The optional helmet protects the wearer from toxic gasses and allows the wearer to breathe underwater and even survive in vacuum as long as suit has power. The helmet has photo-visors so the user can see in the dark and an automatically closing visor renders blind-grenades useless against the wearer. It is also possible to use a backpack for the suit which acts as external power-source. With this power-backpack the wearer can use his armour for five continuous days in battle conditions.
Because the Inquisition often has to deal with Ruinous Powers and other heretical forces, Ignatus suits are commonly inlaid with hexagrammic wards.
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Post by: BrianDavion
Wyzilla wrote: Furyou Miko wrote: Wyzilla wrote:
No, it quite clearly isn't. The abdomen is completely unarmored on sisters, and their power armor is thinner in such areas as the pauldrons.
Not to mention their bolters and other weapons are cut-down and smaller versions compared to Astartes gear. Without the augmented strength, humans can't wield weapons like bolters, astartes power fists, or probably the pauldrons.
However even with augmented strength, Astartes struggle to move in their armor if the power is cut.
I am not fighting you over this again. The codex clearly states that the armour provides the same protection. The codex clearly states that their wargear is just as effective, in absolute terms, with that of the Astartes in every way, except for specifically noting that Sororitas power armour does not have the same life support capabilities.
You are still wrong.
Except the lore doesn't support you at all given that Sisters get utterly massecred by things Astartes would normally survive, or indeed be massecred by Astartes despite supposedly having the same quality armor (especially Flesh Tearers). Basing it all off game mechanic abstractions is both asinine and silly when the TT cannot properly represent anything, the armor is visibly thinner on sisters, their entire torso is unarmored by ceramite, and other sources such as FFG clearly state it being weaker, which makes sense given that the Sisters have watered down tech in the power armor and weapon deparment (especially power weapons).
So no, you've never actually had any evidence, and rather have always just been clinging to a single line and game mechanic in one series of books where multiple other sources contradict it. When something is contradicted multiple times, and there is only one point of evidence you're relying on, it's far more likely that your "evidence" is simply an outlier and an exception to the rule, not the actual rule itself.
Not to mention that given how Sisters power armor is skin-tight, it is already immediately inferior as it would protect far less against concussive force, and they don't have augmented bodies either. A heavy bolter shell fired at the chest would probably instantly kill the Sister form the kinetic energy alone while an Astartes would probably be able to walk that hit off given the thickness of Space Marine PA.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Furyou Miko wrote:Your opinion doesn't count because you think Space Marines can walk through lava.
Actually, they have, and I can probably pull up quotes on the subject as well from the Tome of Fire series.
And no, IIRC that image is of a Canoness, this is just a normal Sister from FFG.
And it's not like it's FFG's invention, this here is from either the 4th or 5th Edition if I remember correctly.
Note again the corset is not made of ceramite like the above or lower pieces. This appears to be a modern depiction trend of the Sisters, and it doesn't make much sense considering that doesn't look to be any more protective than Bridgadine armor from the 14th Century.
in fairness even if their armor is equal the Sisters give up some HUUUUGE edges to the Marines. the Marines are biologicly simply tougher. with all their space marine enhancements
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Post by: dusara217
Ashiraya wrote:It's from Dark Heresy: Ascension, so it's canon. Pages 143-144
Ignatus pattern power armours are all fine examples of Mechanicus artisans. Each of them are individuality crafted only for representatives of the Holy Inquisition. Of course not as durable as Adeptus Astartes power armours, the Ignatus-pattern is far better design than those sold to nobles, rogue traders and other agents of the Imperium. Like every other power armour variant, Ignatus too is made of thick ceramite armour plates and incorporated electro-muscles so the user can even use the power armour in the first place. The optional helmet protects the wearer from toxic gasses and allows the wearer to breathe underwater and even survive in vacuum as long as suit has power. The helmet has photo-visors so the user can see in the dark and an automatically closing visor renders blind-grenades useless against the wearer. It is also possible to use a backpack for the suit which acts as external power-source. With this power-backpack the wearer can use his armour for five continuous days in battle conditions.
Because the Inquisition often has to deal with Ruinous Powers and other heretical forces, Ignatus suits are commonly inlaid with hexagrammic wards.
So the Ignatus Armour essentially has a micro power source that doesn't give it nearly the amount of operating time that a backpack would.
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Post by: BrianDavion
the ability to operate for prolonged periods of time in the field isn't a feature on ALL PA no. but it's a feature on ALL Space Marine armor
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Post by: Furyou Miko
Oh, it's Dark Heresy fluff... Dark Heresy, where Sisters use civilian bolters, can sometimes even fight ORKS (gasp!) and fire laser beams from their eyes.
Pfft.
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Post by: BrianDavion
Furyou Miko wrote:Oh, it's Dark Heresy fluff... Dark Heresy, where Sisters use civilian bolters, can sometimes even fight ORKS (gasp!) and fire laser beams from their eyes.
Pfft.
actually dark heresy notes they have their own specific pattern of bolter.
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Post by: Furyou Miko
It still calls it a civilian model, to differentiate it from real - which is to say Space Marine - models.
Historically, by every non-DH source, Sisters use Godwyn De'az pattern bolters, a slightly longer-barelled variant on the Godwyn pattern used by Space Marines.
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Post by: Co'tor Shas
Yeah, DH, and FFG in general are pretty good, but they are pretty much always on the losing side of conflicting canon. It also brought us Deathwatch, something I really hate to use in fluff discusious, bolter porn through and through.
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Post by: Keep
the text is canon, the artwork is not because it obviously conflicts with what is written. And if there is one thing that is the most inconsistent in 40k, its the artwork. It's not the first time artwork does not match with what is written
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Post by: Psienesis
... it's from a third-party company. Nothing in an FFG publication is "canon", because 40K doesn't have a canon.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
 dusara217 wrote:Can somebody please explain to me why Sisters of Battle all get Artificer level crftmanship on their armour when Artificer armour takes centuries to produce? Makes no fething sense that their armour is as effective as SM Power Armour
I can. The Ecclesiarchy is likely the most powerful, wealthy and influential of all the Imperial organizations. Sometime they have 3 or even more members among the High Lords of Terra. They build kilometers high statue for the fun.
Artificer-level craftsmanship takes centuries to produce, and will cost 1/10 of the total production of a whole world to build? I will order a few more thousands of them just to be sure then, I would not like to have a shortage of them if they take so long to produce!
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Post by: Furyou Miko
Seems like dusara, like so many here, is too blinded by SM-fanboyism to ever listen to reason and accept that the Sisters are actually just as awesome as Marines, if not more so, because they do all that stuff (such as fighting off daemonic incursions as per Codex: Grey Knights, 7e) while still being human...
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Post by: Co'tor Shas
And aren't still a relatively small force? Sort of like special forces or something? It's not like equipping the guard. And many sisters are not going to die in battle because of the armour. There would be few actual purchases needed, mostly repair. The sisters represent some of the best warriors in un-augmented humans around IMO.
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Post by: Furyou Miko
Yep. According to the only official numbers we have from GW, Space Marines actually outnumber Sisters... although the number of Sisters has increased since 2nd edition (I think the 6th edition rulebook places them at about 900,000 rather than the 160,000 of the 2e codex), it's still not gotten that much bigger in absolute terms. For reference, there are 1,000,000 Space Marines.
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Post by: Co'tor Shas
Yeah, so quite easy to equip for something like the eccelarcitythingimabob.
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Post by: Furyou Miko
Ecclesiarchy. Kind of like Eccleston, but more curvy.
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Post by: Co'tor Shas
Every time I start spelling one of these things, I get to point where I just go "screw it".
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Post by: Ashiraya
Furyou Miko wrote:Seems like dusara, like so many here, is too blinded by SM-fanboyism to ever listen to reason and accept that the Sisters are actually just as awesome as Marines, if not more so, because they do all that stuff (such as fighting off daemonic incursions as per Codex: Grey Knights, 7e) while still being human...
Well, your SoB fangirlism balances it quite well I'd say. (:
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Post by: Furyou Miko
Mine is backed up by studio fluff, what's your excuse?
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Post by: Ashiraya
Mine does not rely on making up rules for canon priority to function.
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Post by: Co'tor Shas
Umm, this thread has nothing to do with rules for sisters...
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Post by: Furyou Miko
No, but Sisters are the go-to example for non-Astartes-power-armour, so the conversation is relevant... aside from attempts to put us down because how dare we impugn on Space Marine territory. :/
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Post by: Co'tor Shas
No, that was a response to Ashiraya silly.
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Post by: dusara217
Furyou Miko wrote:Seems like dusara, like so many here, is too blinded by SM-fanboyism to ever listen to reason and accept that the Sisters are actually just as awesome as Marines, if not more so, because they do all that stuff (such as fighting off daemonic incursions as per Codex: Grey Knights, 7e) while still being human...
No, I just don't see how the Ecclesiarchy could requisition gear of that quality, since the only faction outside of Space Marines that can build armour like that (the Mechanicum) disagrees on certain points of doctrine and this has led to them being on bad terms. Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mine is backed up by logic. The Space Marines can barely keep their hands on a couple thousand Artificer suits, and they' literally considered to be the Emperor's Angels and thus get the best of everything. How can you actually think that I'd believe that Sisters could keep their hands on over 900,000 suits of Artificer Armour?
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Post by: Co'tor Shas
I'd just say that they are a different pattern (obviously). In fact they may be all from a SoB only pattern of which they already had most of from the original sisters. It's not like they buy 100 new suits a day.
And "civilian" power armour is defiantly has less of the unneeded bulk of SMPA.
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Post by: dusara217
 Co'tor Shas wrote:And aren't still a relatively small force? Sort of like special forces or something? It's not like equipping the guard. And many sisters are not going to die in battle because of the armour. There would be few actual purchases needed, mostly repair. The sisters represent some of the best warriors in un-augmented humans around IMO.
Space Marines have been around for 10k years and have been building Artificer Armour themselves the whole while. And yet, most Space Marine Chapters can barely field more than five Artificer Armour Suits. You actually expect me to believe that the Ecclesiarchy is going to be able to get 900k Suits of armour that take CENTURIES to build? Plus, SoB numbers have been growing nonstop since the Terran Crusade, so each SoB would have to be waiting for their Armour to be completed before being able to engage in combat. They would have to be waiting for decades. Automatically Appended Next Post: Co'tor Shas wrote:I'd just say that they are a different pattern (obviously). In fact they may be all from a SoB only pattern of which they already had most of from the original sisters. It's not like they buy 100 new suits a day.
And "civilian" power armour is defiantly has less of the unneeded bulk of SMPA.
The unneeded bulk of SMPA gives increased protection due to more Ceramite being on the armour and making it thicker and more difficult to penetrate
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Post by: Co'tor Shas
I'm talking about stuff like paulroooons. Just some normal shoulder plates would be better.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
dusara217 wrote:No, I just don't see how the Ecclesiarchy could requisition gear of that quality, since the only faction outside of Space Marines that can build armour like that (the Mechanicum) disagrees on certain points of doctrine and this has led to them being on bad terms.
Tell me: who is the single most powerful organization of the whole Imperium?
Hint: it starts with High, and finish by Terra.
The Sisters were founded by the guy that had basically filled that council by his sock puppets. Including, yes, the Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum. He made the master of the freaking assassins his dog. That is just how powerful he got. And you wonder how they could get artificer-armor grade armors?
The Ecclesiarchy and the Mechanicus might not be best buddies, but the Mechanicus need resources and the Ecclesiarchy is filthy rich.
dusara217 wrote:The Space Marines can barely keep their hands on a couple thousand Artificer suits, and they' literally considered to be the Emperor's Angels and thus get the best of everything.
I am sorry that discovering it is not the case hurts your feelings  .
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Post by: Ashiraya
Since you are so certain of your case, I am sure you have plenty of sources specifically asserting that SoB have greater access to AA than Astartes do.
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Post by: dusara217
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote: dusara217 wrote:No, I just don't see how the Ecclesiarchy could requisition gear of that quality, since the only faction outside of Space Marines that can build armour like that (the Mechanicum) disagrees on certain points of doctrine and this has led to them being on bad terms.
Tell me: who is the single most powerful organization of the whole Imperium?
Hint: it starts with High, and finish by Terra.
The Sisters were founded by the guy that had basically filled that council by his sock puppets. Including, yes, the Grand Master of the Officio Assassinorum. He made the master of the freaking assassins his dog. That is just how powerful he got. And you wonder how they could get artificer-armor grade armors?
The Ecclesiarchy and the Mechanicus might not be best buddies, but the Mechanicus need resources and the Ecclesiarchy is filthy rich.
dusara217 wrote:The Space Marines can barely keep their hands on a couple thousand Artificer suits, and they' literally considered to be the Emperor's Angels and thus get the best of everything.
I am sorry that discovering it is not the case hurts your feelings .
Ok, now, a few things:
1.) I have not had my feelings hurt in years. Most of the things people get offended over are quite trivial and I consider it quite silly to get offended at all. It's why I don't care about being political correct, and when I hear people insulting me I only really care because then we get to have a fun contest of colorful insults where I inevitably come out on top with my hilariously strange insults.
2.) It's not a matter of how power or wealth, it's a matter of supply. There simply are not enough Artificer Suits in the IoM to outfit the SoB with them - the cost alone would be such that entire Sectors would be left bereft of defense and would fall. And Vandire only had a few hundred Daughters of the Emperor at best, not 900k, so no, that doesn't work.
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Post by: Mr Morden
Vandire only had a few hundred Daughters of the Emperor at best
nope when Vadire finally fell : the Brides of the Emperor, who numbered some 10,000 fighters by this time
Codex Sisters of Battle, p13.
also this direct quote from the current Codex
Clad in ceramite power armour, they carry an awesome array of weaponry with which to vanquish their enemies; the incredible wealth of the Ecclesiarchy ensures that they are equipped with the best wargear the Imperium has to offer.
note ; "Best wargear" - does that sound like civilian qulaity equipment?
Alos same form offical current Codex
Constructed from thick ceramite plates, the power armour worn by the Adepta Sororitas is based upon the same archaic systems as that worn by the brethren of the Adeptus Astartes. It provides the same degree of armoured protection,
Pretty much case closed as regards the level of protection that is offered :
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Post by: Frozen Ocean
I'd like to point out that Sisters wear power armour. Artificer armour was only brought up to point out that thickness does not necessarily equal protective quality when discussing power armour. The idea being that Sister power armour is to Space Marine power armour what Artificer armour is to Terminator armour.
"Centuries to build" is an absurd number, anyway. It's a single suit of armour, not a whole Titan Legion.
Durability should also be considered. A Space Marine's armour might have more operational stamina than a Sister's due to the extra mass, even if they offer roughly equal protection.
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Post by: fallinq
Ashiraya wrote:It's from Dark Heresy: Ascension, so it's canon. Pages 143-144
Ignatus pattern power armours are all fine examples of Mechanicus artisans. Each of them are individuality crafted only for representatives of the Holy Inquisition. Of course not as durable as Adeptus Astartes power armours, the Ignatus-pattern is far better design than those sold to nobles, rogue traders and other agents of the Imperium. Like every other power armour variant, Ignatus too is made of thick ceramite armour plates and incorporated electro-muscles so the user can even use the power armour in the first place. The optional helmet protects the wearer from toxic gasses and allows the wearer to breathe underwater and even survive in vacuum as long as suit has power. The helmet has photo-visors so the user can see in the dark and an automatically closing visor renders blind-grenades useless against the wearer. It is also possible to use a backpack for the suit which acts as external power-source. With this power-backpack the wearer can use his armour for five continuous days in battle conditions.
Because the Inquisition often has to deal with Ruinous Powers and other heretical forces, Ignatus suits are commonly inlaid with hexagrammic wards.
The description makes sense and sounds like normal Power Armour, but I don't see how a suit with bare arms and leg sections could possibly have "electro-muscles" incorporated, or could allow the wearer to survive the vacuum of space.
the text is canon, the artwork is not because it obviously conflicts with what is written. And if there is one thing that is the most inconsistent in 40k, its the artwork. It's not the first time artwork does not match with what is written
I've gotta agree with Keep.
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Post by: Frozen Ocean
I can only assume that the elements shown in the artwork are not the full suit, just the primary plating.
Also "optional helmet" is amusing.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
Ashiraya wrote:Since you are so certain of your case, I am sure you have plenty of sources specifically asserting that SoB have greater access to AA than Astartes do.
I do not have any. But you do not have any stating that they do not have access to AA, do you?
For 25 years, the space marines had not fluff mention of their AA tanks either. Or some of their flyers. Or the Centurion. Or the grav weapons. Or…
 Frozen Ocean wrote:"Centuries to build" is an absurd number, anyway. It's a single suit of armour, not a whole Titan Legion.
Yeah, but the Ecclesiarchy wants the craftsmen to really, really get the feather of the eagle's wings on the shoulder-pad right. Each barb should be meticulously shaped.
Repeat for every detail, technical or aesthetical, of the armor. Unlike a Titan legion, it is going to be the ultimate masterwork of a very few select elite incredibly talented armor-smiths and artists, though, not billions of people.
dusara217 wrote:There simply are not enough Artificer Suits in the IoM to outfit the SoB with them - the cost alone would be such that entire Sectors would be left bereft of defense and would fall.
Faith can allow incredible feats. And, incidentally, push the Imperium's citizen to for even harder to pay their tithes to the Ecclesiarchy  .
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Post by: Frozen Ocean
I think Ashiraya was referring to artificer armour rather than anti-air by "AA".
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
Oh. Well, then I should refer her to your message at the beginning of this page  .
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Post by: Ashiraya
Funny, because the SM codex too says the Space Marines wear the best armour and most potent wargear known to man. The rulebook, too. Everyone is best. The IoM is like a school psychology program.
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Post by: MrFlutterPie
A couple of points.
First somebody said that they disagreed with a point based on logic. This is 40k throw all logic out the window. Very little things make sense from the WW2 "futuristic' tanks, to flying dumpsters to the common techno magic that makes melta weaponry work. Remember in this setting your car might not start because it's machine spirit is grumpy because you haven't washed and waxed it recently
The next thing I would like to address is that GW writes all factions to be special snowflakes. People who play X army want to feel like their army is cool/powerful/awesome so GW writes it that way. So yes every army is the best.
Finally, GW has decided that Sisters power armour offers the same protective quality as a Space Marine's as quoted in this thread. Whether you like it or not that is what GW has written.
As for the original question the OP asked yes Orks can loot anything and everything. Looting a set of power armour would be a rather simple task for any mek. Heck he might even improve on it (Mark. Lotz )
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Post by: BrianDavion
Furyou Miko wrote:It still calls it a civilian model, to differentiate it from real - which is to say Space Marine - models.
Historically, by every non- DH source, Sisters use Godwyn De'az pattern bolters, a slightly longer-barelled variant on the Godwyn pattern used by Space Marines.
which is backed up in the FFG supplements.
Designed specifi cally for the Adepta Sororitas, and blessed
by the Canonesses of the Orders, these venerated weapons
are presented to an Adepta Sororitas upon becoming a Battle
Sister. The Sisterhood considers the venerated Godwyn-De’az
bolt weapons heirlooms; each one carefully maintained by
highly specialized servitors and trusted servants. This pattern
bolter has great signifi cance to the Adepta Sororitas, not only
as a powerful weapon against the enemies of mankind, but
also as a symbol of the Emperor’s judgement and of the sisters
personal connection to her faith.
Ref: Blood of Martyrs page 114. no referance to civilian boltguns here
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Post by: Frozen Ocean
 MrFlutterPie wrote:
First somebody said that they disagreed with a point based on logic. This is 40k throw all logic out the window.
That is a complete fallacy. If there were absolutely no logic, a Fire Warrior could leap from T'au to Terra in a single bound, slap the Emperor with a volcano cannon she had in her pocket, then teleport to Iyanden and hammer-toss Fenris into the Eye of Terror.
"Machine spirit" is a method to explain "behaviours" of a machine by the backward, superstitious Imperium. Just as someone might say "my laptop/car/oven hates me" in real life, except in the Imperium they actually believe that. Most Imperial vehicles are poor design, but poor design does not mean no logic exists at all. Melta is explained by being extremely advanced technology. I don't know why you used melta as an example rather than any Eldar, Tau or Necron weapon, but they all fall under that, too.
GW may write factions to be special snowflakes, but the SoB armour fluff specifically mentions Space Marine power armour as a reference point. As far as I know, there are no sources that directly contradict that.
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Post by: jhe90
Space marine armour may be insanely bulky but its designed to keep going for months at a time, keep its user functioning in any environment, and can power/has emergency power and oxeygen, its armour, but also space suit and able to sustain its user.
Sob armour far as I know is protective but not designed to have same endurece
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Post by: Matthew
Ashiraya wrote:Funny, because the SM codex too says the Space Marines wear the best armour and most potent wargear known to man.
The rulebook, too.
Everyone is best. The IoM is like a school psychology program.
Isn't Terminator armour better? Or, y'know, Centurions?
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Post by: jhe90
Generalisation, termies, centurian, bolters, land raiders,and such are all produced by the best forges and tech priests, nothing like a million a reguler shipment las gun and flak armour, each one hand made by a skilled member of the mechanicous, blessed, and made from the highest quality materials available.
No expense is spared on marine equipment and transports.
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Post by: Supertony51
Matthew wrote:After my recent epic failed Fandex, I want to flesh out some fluff, and for that I have a few questions:
Say a person with the same build and strength as a Marine stole parts of their power armour, would they be able to wear it? I'm talking about small parts, like pauldrons and greeves.
Could a person with the same build as a Marine use a Bolter without power armour?
Not really, the black caraspace has linkage nodes that link into powerarmour and make it responsive to the wearer. There are custom suits that some Non- SM's wear I.E. SoB and inquisitors, but they are pretty rare, and custom built.
If some random guy put on SM power armour, It wouldn't do anything but sit there with you in it.
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Post by: Warboss Gorhack
Space Marine T4 comes from being a posthuman bioengineered bada**, not from the armor.
I'm with those who believe that human sized power armor protection is roughly the same as Space Marine power armor. It's clear that there is no strength augmentation for Sister Armor, while there is (in the fluff, not the game) for Space Marine armor. Presumably things like autosenses and bioelectric suit control (leading to higher relative agility) are more advanced in the Marine models.
I find it odd that anyone would suggest that there is no armor protection for the abdomen in Sister armor. Why anyone would leave such a vital and exposed area escapes me, particularly when the existing fluff and pics don't support that assumption.
After all, look at real earth pictures of armor over the ages. The first things protected are the head, chest and abdomen. When armor begins to decline in the Renaissance those are still protected. Even in the Napoleonic wars heavy cavalry still wears a helmet and breastplate that protects - you guessed it - the head, chest and abdomen.
OK, it's 40K and the rule of cool trumps any sensible considerations. But still.... the assumption of unprotected midriffs on Nunz wif Gunz is not supported by fluff or pics.
Armor that mimics human anatomy is a thing in 40K, y'know. Sorta like in classical Greece and Rome. Just look at Sanguinary Guard and their legendary nipples.
My two teef.
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Post by: Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
There definitely is. Else they could not carry heavy bolters, for instance. They are strong, but not that strong.
What they lack is the “Recycle your own piss” aspects of the marine armor. Sisters needs to find something else to drink .
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Post by: BrianDavion
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
There definitely is. Else they could not carry heavy bolters, for instance. They are strong, but not that strong.
What they lack is the “Recycle your own piss” aspects of the marine armor. Sisters needs to find something else to drink .
pretty much. space marine armor isn't JUST armor, it's also essentially a self contained life support system. I suspect that SoBs don't have those features
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Post by: Psienesis
Correct. The standard suit of Sisters PA lacks a lot of the extra bells and whistles and gubbins that provide functions that a Space Marine might need on deployment... simply because the Sisters do not fill the same mission parameters as Space Marines. They don't need them. They have your pretty standard stuff, low-light vision, targeting reticules, built-in commo, gas-mask and such... but all the advanced optics, waste-recycling, never-ending power supply, auto-injecting drug packs, bio-monitor systems, etc etc etc...
The Sisters don't need that. They're not typically a military force that operates without support elements.
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Post by: TiamatRoar
I assumed the T4 was based on the individual being beneath the armour, not the armour itself? In which case of course a bio-engineered giant would have a higher Toughness score than a normal human.
Edit: Er... ignore this, I guess. I didn't realize there were several pages of discussion still to go.
Oh, and I wouldn't recommend using artwork as a source. Although it's not as bad as bikini armour, the other usual fantasy-female-armour impracticality for the sake of fanservice (such as the boobplate and corset, all designed to say "LOOK AT THIS! IT'S FEMALE!" even though anyone who knows anything about real armour knows how HORRIBLY IMPRACTICAL that would be) still applies. It's best to just ignore the art design completely if it's not explicitly addressed in the fluff (in this case, I'm pretty darn sure the fluff never gave an explanation, justification, acknowledgement, or even hand-wave of the various impractical-fantasy-female-armour tropes present in SoB armour). Slap it under the same category as "some of the people don't have helmets in artwork" if you have to.
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Post by: Psienesis
The boobplate is probably accurate in-setting, too. Remember, the Sisters are the Ecclesiarchy's militant arm because they're the only military the Ecclesiarchy is allowed to have. After Vandire's Reign of Blood, the Decree Passive restricted them from having "men under arms". So the Ecclesiarchy kept the women under arms they'd maintained since Vandire's rise to power.
The armor is *meant* to be overtly feminine. It is, in a sense, the Ecclesiarchy thumbing its nose at the Decree Passive... or, alternately, the Ecclesiarchy demonstrating that it is abiding by the letter of the law.
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Post by: TiamatRoar
Psienesis wrote:The boobplate is probably accurate in-setting, too. Remember, the Sisters are the Ecclesiarchy's militant arm because they're the only military the Ecclesiarchy is allowed to have. After Vandire's Reign of Blood, the Decree Passive restricted them from having "men under arms". So the Ecclesiarchy kept the women under arms they'd maintained since Vandire's rise to power.
The armor is *meant* to be overtly feminine. It is, in a sense, the Ecclesiarchy thumbing its nose at the Decree Passive... or, alternately, the Ecclesiarchy demonstrating that it is abiding by the letter of the law.
The fluff never explicitly mentions that, though, IIRC. That's an explanation the fans made up.
Like I said, the fluff doesn't seem to even acknowledge it's there at all. I'm pretty sure if one were to only go by the words of the fluff and the artworks (and models. ...hey, models are art!) didn't exist at all, we'd never know they had corsets or boob plate in the first place (well, besides perhaps some novels giving physical descriptions of them. I don't recall if they did or not)
I could be wrong on all of this, of course. I don't collect sister fluff pieces.
If I'm right though, my point stands. Until the fluff acknowledges it, you're better off just ignoring it for the same reason you should ignore all those guys going around without helmets (and heck, extend it to the ludicrousness of the tank designs). It's best to not use artworks and art designs for fluff justifications unless acknowledged otherwise, IMHO. The purpose of the art and art design is probably to look awesome (or some variant thereof), not to establish in-universe physical laws.
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Post by: Psienesis
The fluff definitely mentions the Decree Passive and the "Men under arms" stricture of it, however.
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Post by: Furyou Miko
See, the explanation that I personally find far more believable is that when Thor went to the Fabricator General to commission ten thousand new sets of armour for the Adepta Sororitas, the FG squinted at him, told him he'd only just given the Ecclesiarchy ten thousand sets of womens' power armour, and that he'd be stuck with Vandire's design.
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Post by: TiamatRoar
Furyou Miko wrote:See, the explanation that I personally find far more believable is that when Thor went to the Fabricator General to commission ten thousand new sets of armour for the Adepta Sororitas, the FG squinted at him, told him he'd only just given the Ecclesiarchy ten thousand sets of womens' power armour, and that he'd be stuck with Vandire's design.
Come to think about it, IIRC, the fluff does say that Vandire used the Brides of the Emperor for "singing, dancing, and other more 'exotic' skills". (it's also of note that he renamed them from "Daughters of the Emperor" to the more sexual "Brides of the Emperor" in the first place)
.........................now THAT'S a friggin' Grimdark (in the "OMG that's @#$@#$ed up and disturbing" kind of way) explanation for their armour design. Course, this is the same faction with Sisters Repentia so that flavor of grimdark would probably fit right in.
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Post by: Psienesis
It is known that Vandire gave the Brides to other cronies as mistresses and concubines.
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Post by: Mr Morden
Psienesis wrote:It is known that Vandire gave the Brides to other cronies as mistresses and concubines.
I was not aware of that bit - he definately had them performing for him - singing, dancing, and other more 'exotic' skills but others ?
The Schola Program was also heavily abused in this way but thats seperate
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Post by: Psienesis
Hence the change from "Daughters of" to "Brides of".
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Post by: Mr Morden
Indeed - just don't recall any refrence to Vandire sharing his "toys" - ?
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Post by: WarAngel
The Owner/Manager of my FLGS converted Centurions into looted Ork stuff.
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