Hi,
So, when I went to my local gaming store to get the Sanguniary Guard last Saturday, I saw a few things that were Finecast (also known as please don't bypass the language filter like this. Reds8n by some). These things included:
Warboss with attack squig
Big mek with kustom force field
Big mek with shokk attack gun.
Here was something I was surprised by:
It was on a sprue.
And here is something I was not surprised by:
It did not look good. the sprue was misshapen (not a perfect square)
I think it was not very good. I think that it was more gak cast than finecast.
What does everyone think about Finecast? I think I should call it gak cast.

Try searching Dakka for the term Failcast, and you'll see the general response.

It has good and bad points, but even GW have 'admitted' that Finecast was a bad idea.

I like them, I have no idea where the hate's from.

 Skinnereal wrote:
Try searching Dakka for the term Failcast, and you'll see the general response.

It has good and bad points, but even GW have 'admitted' that Finecast was a bad idea.

Whoa! Even GW has admitted that Finecast was a bad idea? Maybe this means they'll get rid of it?
And I never knew it could be called Failcast...


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 Matthew wrote:
I like them, I have no idea where the hate's from.

Why do you like them?

Finecast is no longer in production. Waaaay too many problems with the casting. And they dont even take paint as well as the plastic.

So while you can still get older models in finescast, nothing new will be produced in finecast anymore.

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
Try searching Dakka for the term Failcast, and you'll see the general response.

It has good and bad points, but even GW have 'admitted' that Finecast was a bad idea.

Whoa! Even GW has admitted that Finecast was a bad idea? Maybe this means they'll get rid of it?
And I never knew it could be called Failcast...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Matthew wrote:
I like them, I have no idea where the hate's from.

Why do you like them?

Good looking models. Belial, Typhus et cetera.

Please see earlier comment with regards to language.

Reds8n

I prefer plastic but I've found the way people talk about it is like comparing a small breeze to a tornado.

pm713 wrote:
I prefer plastic but I've found the way people talk about it is like comparing a small breeze to a tornado.

OK.

They dropped the FineCast name and went with finely detailed resin cast kit instead.

It seems to have been hit or miss for a lot of people but for me the vast majority of my purchases with Finecast have actually been pretty good. Like the other resin kits I've gotten before I needed to clean some flash but otherwise there wasn't any excess warpage or disfigurement. In fact I recently got a Kaptin Badrukk figure with the extra special ammo runts and they all came in great condition.

All of my Finecast kits have been excellent.

 Chute82 wrote:
They dropped the FineCast name and went with finely detailed resin cast kit instead.

Oh, so they still have finecast under a different name?
God !

Thats marketing stuff. They already made all of the Finecast so they still have to sell it all. So to call it finely details is just stating an opinion that will give you the impression that it is worth buying.

I liked how my assault chaplain's backpack came with "battle damage" and was missing a huge chunk of the top. That's forging some narrative right there.

 MWHistorian wrote:
I liked how my assault chaplain's backpack came with "battle damage" and was missing a huge chunk of the top. That's forging some narrative right there.

Haha nice. My PF chaplain came with a huge extra block of resin melded in to his right leg. Forging the narrative, it looks like he is tripping over a rock!

I have two kits in Finecast (Astorath and Masters of the Chapter) and both are solid. Sure, the sprue may be warped but the parts of the model itself are fine and only slightly worse than FW casts (although the material is not as good).
Both kits are not older than 1 year, I think the bad reputation is from the beginning of Finecast.

 Icculus wrote:
Thats marketing stuff. They already made all of the Finecast so they still have to sell it all. So to call it finely details is just stating an opinion that will give you the impression that it is worth buying.

But is it really worth buying?

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:

 Icculus wrote:
Thats marketing stuff. They already made all of the Finecast so they still have to sell it all. So to call it finely details is just stating an opinion that will give you the impression that it is worth buying.

But is it really worth buying?

That's up to you isn't it? Also since it's a case by case basis, then if they look bad to you then don't buy it. Have you ever assembled resin kits before?

You get to keep returning it until you are happy with the model. They seem to let you do that no matter the reason.
So, there will be a lot of 2nds out on the shelves, that people have already rejected, as they've got to get them sold.

If you buy from a store, ask to look at the parts before you accept them. It'll save time later.

All my finecast models have been awful, they have been replaced free of charge by my local store though.

Had to open a couple of boxes before combining kits to get a decent model for my Autarch. Very poor casting and quality control.

The few things I've bought in finecast have been solid, although from what I understand the earlier stuff was terrible.

But is it really worth buying?

Well it is if the kit you want only comes in Finecast surely?
As stated, check the pack/kit first. If its a poor quality one, bung it back to GW and get another.

For all the horror stories out there, I guess I have been quite lucky with FC. I've only had a few minis (Dante, Astorath, Njal and a Lord Commissar) but they've all been fine. Just check the mini first in the store, and you shouldn't have a huge problem; if it's bad, don't buy it.

I've never gotten a bad kit except a Warp Spider box that was missing 1 guy, I called GW and they sent me a sprue of two guys! Super happy about that. My only complaint about Finecast is that they warp in the heat, and my Eldar army kinda... Has a lot of finecast in it, so I can't leave it in my car ready to rock after work.

Early Finecast had its problems.
The quality has improved, the resin changed. It's been very good the past two years at least. Detail is far sharper to any plastic/metal model. Yet the hate remains.

Sprue wasn't a perfect square? Honestly, that doesn't matter at all. It's resin, it bends when warm. Bent sprues happen. Who cares about the frame anyway?
If any of the model is bent, a bit of heat will sort it. I can see how they'd put off beginners, but the quality is excellent on them. It's now very rare to get a poor Finecast. And if you do, they replace it.

 grendel083 wrote:
Early Finecast had its problems.
The quality has improved, the resin changed. It's been very good the past two years at least. Detail is far sharper to any plastic/metal model. Yet the hate remains.

Sprue wasn't a perfect square? Honestly, that doesn't matter at all. It's resin, it bends when warm. Bent sprues happen. Who cares about the frame anyway?
If any of the model is bent, a bit of heat will sort it. I can see how they'd put off beginners, but the quality is excellent on them. It's now very rare to get a poor Finecast. And if you do, they replace it.

OK, i will keep that in mind when I buy finecast (if I ever buy finecast)
Thanks all!

 Paradigm wrote:
For all the horror stories out there, I guess I have been quite lucky with FC. I've only had a few minis (Dante, Astorath, Njal and a Lord Commissar) but they've all been fine. Just check the mini first in the store, and you shouldn't have a huge problem; if it's bad, don't buy it.

My experience is almost the exact opposite, Rakarth, a DE Haemy, a set of Wracks and a Termie Librarian, all with issues to a greater or lesser degree.

That said, I do think that a lot of the issues are historical and there may be an argument that current stuff isn't so bad (I sold my DE more than two years ago, to suggest a time frame for my experiences) but bridges have been burned for me, and I'm more likely to kitbash or seek out an alternate third party than buy FC now.

Heck, I'd even consider regular resin or metal from China before buying original FC.

I have had a couple of good casts but have subsequently found over the past year or so that the casts have warped inside the miniature case (standard GW cases with GW foam by the way). Both Illic Nightspear's rifle barrel and Draigo's banner both warped and bent due to light pressure from foam so I'm not impressed. I ended up having to replace Illic's rifle barrel with a similar shaped plastic one as trying to bend the original back into shape ended up snapping it at a join.

The only finecast model I own is a terminator librarian, and he's.... okay. There was one small bubble on his foot that was easy enough to cover, but his staff was near unusable. Had basically turned into a limp worm. Fortunately, I had already planned on swapping it out for an axe, so this wasn't an issue. Don't plan on buying any again unless I desperately have to. Fingers crossed they come out with Sammael in plastic.

Both my Rangers and my Farseer had horrifically bent weapons.

My jump pack chaos lord was almost beyond salvage.

That is pretty much my experience with finecast.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Both my Rangers and my Farseer had horrifically bent weapons.

My jump pack chaos lord was almost beyond salvage.

That is pretty much my experience with finecast.

Sorry about that.

It was possible to repair the weapons of the Eldar, although it took some work.

The Chaos Lord... I seriously have no idea of what to do with him.

The resin just feels cheap. It's tougher to paint than plastic. I have picked up a ton of Iron Hands upgrades, MoTF, Shadowsun, Farsight, Tau Commander, and an Ethereal. Only the Ethereal was a great cast. Shadowsun and Farsight were ok. MoTF and Commander were pretty awful. The Iron Hand upgrades are hit or miss.

I have a feeling with the advent of the Detroyrer Cult formation that some unsuspecting people may be about to learn first hand just how bad the resin Necron Heavy Destroyer upgrade packs are.

If you're reading this, let me save you some time and money. Convert those Heavy Gauss Cannons.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Both my Rangers and my Farseer had horrifically bent weapons.

F'nar.


Seriously though, if they're bad, return them.

Don't try and bend resin. That leads to snaps.
Always heat it. Hot water or heat gun.

This guy is Finecast (apart from the wings):



There are nicks in the tabdard across the chest, a shoulderpad was pitted, and the axe shaft was bent. The axe-arm hose was a right-old mess.
I managed to fix the axe with hot water, but it kept warping in its foam tray.
After a while though, it snapped. I was able to drill it and fit a 1mm brass rod up it to repair it.

Finecast is very easy to drill, but keeping the hole straight is difficult.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Seriously though, if they're bad, return them.

Why? The replacements are going to be just as bad as the originals. The problem with finecast isn't a small number of bad casts, it's that the material sucks and almost never produces a useable model.

 grendel083 wrote:
Early Finecast had its problems.
The quality has improved, the resin changed. It's been very good the past two years at least. Detail is far sharper to any plastic/metal model. Yet the hate remains.

Allow me to challenge that bolded statement, please.

 Korinov wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
Early Finecast had its problems.
The quality has improved, the resin changed. It's been very good the past two years at least. Detail is far sharper to any plastic/metal model. Yet the hate remains.

Allow me to challenge that bolded statement, please.

Please do, I've had a metal and a Fine Cast Badrukk.
The resin model is far, far better in terms of detail.

 grendel083 wrote:

 Korinov wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
Early Finecast had its problems.
The quality has improved, the resin changed. It's been very good the past two years at least. Detail is far sharper to any plastic/metal model. Yet the hate remains.

Allow me to challenge that bolded statement, please.

Please do, I've had a metal and a Fine Cast Badrukk.
The resin model is far, far better in terms of detail.

If we're only talking about GW models, well, I have both metal and failcast 6th edition DE Black Guard - failcast ones I got second-hand. The casting quality is good, although the halberds were mostly bent - that's what prompted the original owner to sell them, I think.

Having both metal and failcast ones in the same regiment, painted with the same colour scheme, it's difficult to tell them apart. Well, to be honest, I can tell them apart because they're my minis, but for other people it's really tough to spot the difference. In terms of pure detail, they're roughly the same.

If we consider metal miniatures from other manufacturers (Rackham, AoW) many of them offer better detail than most failcast releases, although that has more to do with sculpting detail than material's quality I guess.

Selling Finecast due to bent weapons is crazy. I'm guessing he wasn't an experience modeller?

Main problem is people try and treat it like plastic. You can't just bend them back into shape, they just snap. It's the nature of resin. It needs to be thoroughly heated, ideally with a heat gun, until soft.

I got sent a replacement Reaper Bolt Thrower after getting a Crumblecast version, and it was lots better.

Resin is a fascinating beast! I think the difference between finecast and the newer stuff (besides what it's called) is probably just less filler thrown in to save money.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Seriously though, if they're bad, return them.

Why? The replacements are going to be just as bad as the originals. The problem with finecast isn't a small number of bad casts, it's that the material sucks and almost never produces a useable model.

Return =\= exchange.

I avoid it if I can, but have a few of the models. So far they have all had some warping and bubbles.

I feel with forge world resin I have been able to straighten out any issues I have had with their models, which has not been many in my experience. But with the Finecast no matter how much I try to fix it it still just looks wrong.

Its worth it for everyone to flat-out boycott Failcast models.

GW have shown that they know its bad...they are releasing plastic kits to replace failcast here and there (Zoan/Venomthropes)

If noone buys the stuff at all, we'll end up with more cool plastic kits.

GW aren't replacing FC models because they know they're bad necessarily, it's been a stated aim going back to the time when they communicated with their customers to make as much of their product in plastic as possible. It's more likely the FC-plastic conversions are because they suit GW than any sort of desire to improve.

In fact, it's quite plausible that FC was meant to be a temporary measure from the get go, and the issues were considered acceptable collateral damage where any negatives could be offset by the decrease in material costs, a price increase and a persisting core of customers who swallow whatever GW feeds them.


As to a boycott?

Yeah, nice idea, but impossible to orchestrate in reality.

My termie chaplain was perfect.
My Thunder Fire Cannon was not. The sides were warped so it looked like some cutsy anime version of the thing to the point that nothing really fit together. It was a mess.

 grendel083 wrote:
Selling Finecast due to bent weapons is crazy. I'm guessing he wasn't an experience modeller?

Main problem is people try and treat it like plastic. You can't just bend them back into shape, they just snap. It's the nature of resin. It needs to be thoroughly heated, ideally with a heat gun, until soft.

It's likely he was unexperienced at dealing with resin models. Some hot water and the bending was 95% gone... I don't mind some halberd or standard poles being slightly bent, sometimes they were made out of branches so it's natural they wouldn't be 100% perfectly straight.

I have to admit my reaction would have probably been the same as his - getting rid of the models outright - if I didn't know the bending could be fixed. You pay a boutique price for some halberdiers and the halberds are bent... ah, the joys of resin.

I've bought quite a few fine cast models, and I've only come across one or 2 issues. I suppose I am just lucky.

I have 2 Finecast Haemonculi- both of which look pretty good. Fingers were missing due to bubbling but since I was going to snip the hands off for some nastier weaponry it wasn't that much of a bother. I have 2 Medusae that came out very nicely.
The resin Wracks are the worst of the bunch. Terrible to paint on and the Hexrifle's magazine may as well not have been on. Thank god they made them in plastic.

I also have a Finecast Necron Overlord, Cryptek and Trazyn. All of them were pretty well done. The first had a bit of his foot missing though I let that fly, since it actually looks like he's regenerating it. Crypteks' staff of Light snapped like a twig. Annoying but fixable. Trazyn's Empathic Obliterator is all bendy though and I can't make it go back straight.

 Brennonjw wrote:
I've bought quite a few fine cast models, and I've only come across one or 2 issues. I suppose I am just lucky.

You could say you're lucky, but then compare it to the hundreds of metal GW minis I bought back in the day, not to mention the hundreds more my friends bought, and I don't recall a single issue beyond standard clean up items.

"One or two" out of "quite a few" suddenly sounds much worse don't you think?

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
I've bought quite a few fine cast models, and I've only come across one or 2 issues. I suppose I am just lucky.

You could say you're lucky, but then compare it to the hundreds of metal GW minis I bought back in the day, not to mention the hundreds more my friends bought, and I don't recall a single issue beyond standard clean up items.

"One or two" out of "quite a few" suddenly sounds much worse don't you think?

quite a few as in 60+, to clarify.

Still, in relation to hundreds purchased over many years, that's an exponentially higher failure rate, if we're talking anecdotally.

Just as a rough estimate, I'm going from a sample size of four people, with at least two factions in the 3000 point ballpark each (except one guy who had a large collection exclusively of Nids, but, well, Nids) so probably somewhere in the region of 200 minis each (and we're talking an era where Dreads, Land Speeders and various other large kits were metal) without a single production issue.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Return =\= exchange.

Does GW offer returns for a refund?


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 angelofvengeance wrote:
I have 2 Finecast Haemonculi- both of which look pretty good. Fingers were missing due to bubbling but since I was going to snip the hands off for some nastier weaponry it wasn't that much of a bother. I have 2 Medusae that came out very nicely.
The resin Wracks are the worst of the bunch. Terrible to paint on and the Hexrifle's magazine may as well not have been on. Thank god they made them in plastic.

I also have a Finecast Necron Overlord, Cryptek and Trazyn. All of them were pretty well done. The first had a bit of his foot missing though I let that fly, since it actually looks like he's regenerating it. Crypteks' staff of Light snapped like a twig. Annoying but fixable. Trazyn's Empathic Obliterator is all bendy though and I can't make it go back straight.

IOW: "my finecast models sucked, but it's ok because I was going to make them nurgle models and the bubbles are a good thing!"

 Peregrine wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Return =\= exchange.

Does GW offer returns for a refund?

All retailers are obliged to offer a refund for faulty goods in the UK by law (assuming accompanied by a receipt, within a reasonable time frame (usually 14 days) and a few other caveats.)

I have an Imotekh, Termi Lib and Chaplain, and an Abaddon. No issues with any of them, although the Imotekh is SIGNIFICANTLY harder than the other three, and he was a lighter color. No issues with bubbles or anything like that on them. From what I have deduced, it seems like the earlier models made out of it sucked, and now they've sorted the mix out, so they seem to be much better these days.

As always, YMMV

 Bi'ios wrote:
I have an Imotekh, Termi Lib and Chaplain, and an Abaddon. No issues with any of them, although the Imotekh is SIGNIFICANTLY harder than the other three, and he was a lighter color. No issues with bubbles or anything like that on them. From what I have deduced, it seems like the earlier models made out of it sucked, and now they've sorted the mix out, so they seem to be much better these days.

As always, YMMV

Was the Imotekh newer? I heard some people say they got some Tau models more recently that were a harder resin, much better quality than the older finecast stuff.

It isn't impossible, with the move to direct only for much of it, and the replacement with plastic in other cases, that sales volume has dropped sufficiently that Forge World (who are, after all GW's resin specialists) may well have taken over that side of production.

It's been rumoured for a while, but more in a "you'll go to FW to buy it" sort of way, perhaps they're just the one's at Lenton making the casts now?

I haven't seen any mold defects or warping in my experience (Shadowsun, Ethereal, about 6 Kroot Hounds, all purchased a little over 6 months ago) except for one tiny bubble on the Ethereal's foot, which wasn't visible under the robes anyway.

I have seen enough pictures to know that problems exist, but it seems like the material had some major issues when it was first put into production and it has gotten better since then.

The modeling characteristics though...I do not like working with Finecast because it feels really brittle and likely to snap just by breathing on it. Would not at all be annoyed if they replaced it with another material; although, I still prefer it a lot over metal (which in my experience is a nightmare to clean, work with, and assemble).

Despite what a lot of people say (I only realized this once I started assembling models by different companies more) GW is pretty good at the technical side of making and packaging models. I'll give them that.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Bi'ios wrote:
I have an Imotekh, Termi Lib and Chaplain, and an Abaddon. No issues with any of them, although the Imotekh is SIGNIFICANTLY harder than the other three, and he was a lighter color. No issues with bubbles or anything like that on them. From what I have deduced, it seems like the earlier models made out of it sucked, and now they've sorted the mix out, so they seem to be much better these days.

As always, YMMV

Was the Imotekh newer? I heard some people say they got some Tau models more recently that were a harder resin, much better quality than the older finecast stuff.

I purchased it about 6 months ago, but I have no clue when it was manufactured. It was kind of an impulse buy. I just saw him sitting on the rack at the store (a FLGS, no GW's around Pittsburgh that I'm aware of). It was also my first FC purchase. I was a bit surprised that the next one I bought (Abaddon) was a bit softer, although it wasn't limp or rubbery. The Abaddon and Termi Chaplain were purchased direct, and the Termi Lib came from Ebay (a steal, too. $15, NIB)

Wow so many mountain over a mole hill. GW puts their money where there mouth is. So you got a bad product. Call the 1 800 number and GW will gladly give you a replacement. Get another bad casting, call GW again. Customer Service aims to please and make things right.

Complain all you will, whine all you will, all it does is make us look like whiney nerds and geeks. If GW didn't replace the miscasts then there would be a reason to complain. Since GW is replacing everything at no cost to us there is no reason to whine.

I got some miscasts, GW fixed my problems. Yes it sucks when it happens, but at least GW fixes the issues.

Like I said if GW doesn't fix the issue in your case then you have a right to complain and be upset. But for most people to be so upset when GW would fix their issues but they don't bother, then it's the it's just whining.

I think when people have had a number of replacements into double digits and still haven't received a decent cast, they have every right to blow their top. (It happened and was documented in a blog not long after Finecast launched)

Legitimate complaints about a poor product is not whining. Complaints that a product is so poor that the company seem unable to provide an item of adequate quality after multiple attempts are not whining.

Coming into a thread to complain about people talking about something without making any further contribution to the discussion?

That's whining.

 jasper76 wrote:
Its worth it for everyone to flat-out boycott Failcast models.

GW have shown that they know its bad...they are releasing plastic kits to replace failcast here and there (Zoan/Venomthropes)

If noone buys the stuff at all, we'll end up with more cool plastic kits.

And will plastic hobbit models appear out of nowhere?

Finecast is a stopgap while everything transitions to boxes/the single-pose plastic clampacks. It holds detail like a dream but it's absurdly flimsy and the production process had a lot of kinks early on; if you're going to do anything with Finecast you have to be extremely careful putting the models together but once they're primed it's not usually too bad unless you get a miscast.


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 Da krimson barun wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Its worth it for everyone to flat-out boycott Failcast models.

GW have shown that they know its bad...they are releasing plastic kits to replace failcast here and there (Zoan/Venomthropes)

If noone buys the stuff at all, we'll end up with more cool plastic kits.

And will plastic hobbit models appear out of nowhere?

Someone has to start playing the Hobbit first.

The great british hobbit leuge has 2,701 subscribers.So people do play the hobbit.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I think when people have had a number of replacements into double digits and still haven't received a decent cast, they have every right to blow their top. (It happened and was documented in a blog not long after Finecast launched)

Legitimate complaints about a poor product is not whining. Complaints that a product is so poor that the company seem unable to provide an item of adequate quality after multiple attempts are not whining.

Coming into a thread to complain about people talking about something without making any further contribution to the discussion?

That's whining.

It's been done to death. Most people know that GW is phasing out Finecast, so it's going away. They know it's going away, so why bother about complaining about it? They got their wish. GW is getting rid of it.

It's more complaining about GW for complaining sakes. I don't see any legitimate complaints here. I see whining. I don't see any posts saying I that they bought a Finecast and the replacement of the replacement of the replacement were all defective. That is a legitimate complaint. None of that in this thread. Just Finecast sucks.

Again, GW replaces it. If it's still defective GW still replaces it. I don't see anywhere anyone asking for a refund and GW refusing to do so. Again, another legitimate complain, not being said.

I picked up some Warp Spiders and Pedro Cantor recently in Finecast direct from GW and they were damn near perfect, no mold lines or excess resin, though YMMV.

Davor wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
I think when people have had a number of replacements into double digits and still haven't received a decent cast, they have every right to blow their top. (It happened and was documented in a blog not long after Finecast launched)

Legitimate complaints about a poor product is not whining. Complaints that a product is so poor that the company seem unable to provide an item of adequate quality after multiple attempts are not whining.

Coming into a thread to complain about people talking about something without making any further contribution to the discussion?

That's whining.

It's been done to death. Most people know that GW is phasing out Finecast, so it's going away. They know it's going away, so why bother about complaining about it? They got their wish. GW is getting rid of it.

It's more complaining about GW for complaining sakes. I don't see any legitimate complaints here. I see whining. I don't see any posts saying I that they bought a Finecast and the replacement of the replacement of the replacement were all defective. That is a legitimate complaint. None of that in this thread. Just Finecast sucks.

Again, GW replaces it. If it's still defective GW still replaces it. I don't see anywhere anyone asking for a refund and GW refusing to do so. Again, another legitimate complain, not being said.

You know the beauty of a forum like this? It's pure democracy in action.

If nobody wishes to talk about a topic, then the thread pretty soon drops off the first page altogether.

If a thread keeps getting participants, then people obviously have something they wish to talk about, even if it only means letting off steam. All you accomplish by posting complaints about other people's posts is bumping a thread back to the top, where the subject may then garner further participants, keeping a thread you don't like front and centre that little bit longer.

As has been said, on numerous occasions in multiple threads, the best counter to negativity is positivity, or simply saying nothing and moving on.

All that said, it is essentially irrelevant how good GW are or have been about exchanging or refunding bad casts, they've still produced and continued to sell a gak product, which is worthy of criticism in itself, if they'd been half arsed about dealing with the issues, that would have compounded the problem.

I think for overall ruggedness seeing as how I have had my models in storage between divorce and moving etc. etc., that I would prefer metal to the Finecast resin mainly due to heat issues. However,I had a Forge World Tryanid model that is painted that bent from the heat or from having stuff pressing him down, he formed up very nicely with boiling water from the tea kettle with no need to repaint.

I bought two of the limited Space Marine Captains they made after the box cover art from 1st ed, he is Finecast and 1 model was less than perfect.

I hope they redo the models before they make them unavailable. I would rather have Finecast than nothing.

Davor wrote:
I don't see any posts saying I that they bought a Finecast and the replacement of the replacement of the replacement were all defective. That is a legitimate complaint. None of that in this thread.

Then let me make it explicit, since my first post saying that apparently wasn't clear enough: the original models were defective, the replacements were defective, and the replacements of the replacements were defective. The problem is not a few defective models that can easily be replaced, it's that finecast itself is a defective product.


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 Kelly502 wrote:
I would rather have Finecast than nothing.

I'd rather have nothing, because then at least there wouldn't be units in the codex that I can't use because I'm not willing to throw away money on a finecast "model".

I recently bought Shrike and a Chaplin with jump pack and other then the frame of the sprue being bent they were really amazing and beautiful models. Heck even my old Logan Grimnar and ex-wife's Astorath The Grim were really nice. I guess we may have gotten lucky with finecast.

 Azreal13 wrote:


As has been said, on numerous occasions in multiple threads, the best counter to negativity is positivity, or simply saying nothing and moving on.

All that said, it is essentially irrelevant how good GW are or have been about exchanging or refunding bad casts, they've still produced and continued to sell a gak product, which is worthy of criticism in itself, if they'd been half arsed about dealing with the issues, that would have compounded the problem.

Oh I agree best counter is positivity. I also agree GW deserves all the criticism as well.

 Kelly502 wrote:
I would rather have Finecast than nothing.

I kind of agree with this - my understanding is that plastic tooling is very expensive. Maybe GW would have chosen not to release some of the kits that are currently in finecast if they hadn't had that option.

Don't get me wrong, I've had really mixed success with my finecast models (incubi - bad, clawed fiend - good) and I'd much rather work with plastic. But many of the actual designs are good, and it'd be shame if they hadn't seen the light of day because the company's tooling budget didn't cover production of tools for these kits.

 Kelly502 wrote:

I hope they redo the models before they make them unavailable. I would rather have Finecast than nothing.

This. At one point, I didn't buy every single solo that came out -- back then I had spending priorities other than each $20 single unit release for a faction that I didn't collect. Fast forward, now I want to collect some other faction, and I can't buy any of the finecast, because not only is it direct-only, but it's ** sold out **. I also have some annoying combinations where, for example, I bought 2 Grotesques (and they are deployed in squads of 3+), and cannot buy more.

Frankly, 80% of the finecast models I've bought are terrific. 10 % are acceptable, 5% require excessive remediation, and 5% or perhaps a little less require some replacement piece (or more greenstuff work than I'm happy with). As a material, it isn't hard to work with at all, though possibly slightly more "advanced" a material to work with than HIPS -- it sands and cuts nicely, but can be delicate (though sometimes this is just design). The thing I miss most, probably, is simply that I can't use plastic cement.

Put aside injection molded, high impact polystyrene for a moment, and consider all the other materials that models are made from: white metal, PVC, "restic" (plastic resin), that bendy vinyl/plastic stuff. All of those are far more annoying to work with, and have less optimal results from a modelling perspective.

So, while, yes, I prefer HIPS to finecast, I pretty much prefer finecast (or other resins) to most of the other alternatives. On infantry sized models, I prefer white metal to resin, but on every other size, metal just means tons of pinning. Just try some P3 PVC models, some Reaper Bones, or a GW metal dragon, and compare that to resin.

Talys wrote:

 Kelly502 wrote:

I hope they redo the models before they make them unavailable. I would rather have Finecast than nothing.

This. At one point, I didn't buy every single solo that came out -- back then I had spending priorities other than each $20 single unit release for a faction that I didn't collect. Fast forward, now I want to collect some other faction, and I can't buy any of the finecast, because not only is it direct-only, but it's ** sold out **. I also have some annoying combinations where, for example, I bought 2 Grotesques (and they are deployed in squads of 3+), and cannot buy more.

Frankly, 80% of the finecast models I've bought are terrific. 10 % are acceptable, 5% require excessive remediation, and 5% or perhaps a little less require some replacement piece (or more greenstuff work than I'm happy with). As a material, it isn't hard to work with at all, though possibly slightly more "advanced" a material to work with than HIPS -- it sands and cuts nicely, but can be delicate (though sometimes this is just design). The thing I miss most, probably, is simply that I can't use plastic cement.

Put aside injection molded, high impact polystyrene for a moment, and consider all the other materials that models are made from: white metal, PVC, "restic" (plastic resin), that bendy vinyl/plastic stuff. All of those are far more annoying to work with, and have less optimal results from a modelling perspective.

So, while, yes, I prefer HIPS to finecast, I pretty much prefer finecast (or other resins) to most of the other alternatives. On infantry sized models, I prefer white metal to resin, but on every other size, metal just means tons of pinning. Just try some P3 PVC models, some Reaper Bones, or a GW metal dragon, and compare that to resin.

I'd prefer finecast as well if it weren't for the deformeties in the model. No matter what else, I need the model to look like what it's supposed to look like.

 MWHistorian wrote:

I'd prefer finecast as well if it weren't for the deformeties in the model. No matter what else, I need the model to look like what it's supposed to look like.

Of course. I'm just saying, having bought about 100 finecast products, there were maybe 5 that I would have classified as "deformed", and GW is very good about replacing bad pieces. What I see a lot more of is pieces that just don't fit as well as MPP, a lot more greenstuff/paste/milliput work, and that kind of thing. But, really, not much different from the days of metal minis.

I really don't get the "it doesn't paint as well as plastic" either. After you wash and prime resin, it's very similar. And *way* better than metal.

Quite simply, to this date I have yet to see a Finecast model in the store that is in a condition that I would pay more than a Bones-level price for. And that's coming from 20 years of dealing with metal models. I very honestly would rather pay their exorbitant clampack HIPS model prices first.

I have not and will not ever buy a Finecast model from GW. The material is absolute crap. If it's not mis-molded and/or bent, it's so brittle that I can either point to pieces are outright broken in the package, or identify weapons and/or protrusions that I would make me fear to use the model in an actual game.

I have assembled and painted high-quality resin gaming models, and Finecast does not come anywhere close. HIPS is obviously the best, but nothing in my experience with metal models would make me want to tackle the problems with Finecast instead.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Quite simply, to this date I have yet to see a Finecast model in the store that is in a condition that I would pay more than a Bones-level price for. And that's coming from 20 years of dealing with metal models. I very honestly would rather pay their exorbitant clampack HIPS model prices first.

I have not and will not ever buy a Finecast model from GW. The material is absolute crap. If it's not mis-molded and/or bent, it's so brittle that I can either point to pieces are outright broken in the package, or identify weapons and/or protrusions that I would make me fear to use the model in an actual game.

I have assembled and painted high-quality resin gaming models, and Finecast does not come anywhere close. HIPS is obviously the best, but nothing in my experience with metal models would make me want to tackle the problems with Finecast instead.

Wow, that's harsh. Since you've been in this for 20+ years and have worked with metal models, do you recall large size metal models, and how difficult they were to assemble and keep from breaking when you actually gamed with them? I mean, it took more hours to assemble a 30 piece dragon than it would to build, prep, paint, finish, play and retire of a resin model of today of comparable size.

There is the more practical issue of how you play the game without ever touching Finecast (if you actually play 40k). There aren't any factions that have *no* Finecast; I think Tau are the only playable faction if you remove all Finecast pieces (I think Ethereals are Finecast). Every other faction I can think of has either key heroes or core units (or both) that are Finecast.

Just picking randomly from my prep pile, here is a Grotesque partially assembled, and some Fire Dragons, brand new on the sprue. Both are Finecast, and I don't particularly see anything wrong that would make me scream and demand a refund.

I like some of the Finecast models I have, like my Warpspiders, but the rest are bad. My 25 year anniversary models are covered in defects and finecast is vary brittle on small pieces like my harlequin kisses, all of them have snapped off just looking at them.

 Icculus wrote:
Thats marketing stuff. They already made all of the Finecast so they still have to sell it all. So to call it finely details is just stating an opinion that will give you the impression that it is worth buying.

Always be wary when a product is advertised as something like that, particularly when they don't offer details.

For example, I semi-recently got a pair of keyboards that were advertized on the box as having a durable coating for the keys to make them wear-resistant. It wasn't a week before the paint had started coming off. Now 1/3-1/2 of the letter keys have so much paint missing that you wouldn't be able to tell which letter they are just by looking at the key. Fortunately I can touch-type.

Though I will admit that the same thing's happened to pretty much every keyboard I've used for a long time, and I do type rather hard.

On-topic, I have a few Finecast models, and the worst that's happened with them is some minor air bubbles (oddly enough, in the knuckles of two different Ork models). I thought they were great at first, because the parts stuck together easily. Then I got my first model that had been designed with Finecast in mind: Valkia from the WHFB Chaos Warriors range. I had significant issues getting her to go together, because although the material was extremely light, the model's design had tiny, tiny joints where the glue had to go. The wings provided exceptional difficulty, as they were large pieces that didn't join snugly with the torso. I eventually got her together by painting each half of the join with liquid green stuff and then applying superglue.

I think the early ones went together better because the models were designed with metal in mind, so they had broad joins that could take the weight of metal, and since Finecast is a lot lighter, the join's nice and secure.

Personally, I prefer plastic. It's easier to hack apart for conversions, goes together more easily with plastic glue (I use GW superglue for metal and finecast models because it's more convenient for me to get it, and I find it easy enough to peel off my skin (gently, while running it under a warm tap and applying soap and rubbing before scraping it off with a fingernail). Some of the superglues that were recommended to me... They seem like I'd need a doctor to get the skin apart, and I'm rather clumsy, so not getting it on my hands just isn't a realistic scenario.), and seems to be easier to paint. My metal minis keep getting chips and scratches in the paint jobs. My Scout Snipers from the early 00s look like they've been drybrushed with silver.

I bought a Haemy finecast to try it out and it sucked. Bubble on foot was fixable, but the model 'floats' on it's coat and cants at a 30 degree angle.
May try a heat gun on it, but I prefer plastic as it is easier to work with conversion-wise, and finecast models are too light - the plastic base weighs
more than the model. And I don't need the extra 'detail', plastic has enough detail for me. Never buying another finecast. I did trade for a set of finecast
Harlequins about a year ago before I bought the Haemy, and they appear OK, but I still haven't painted them which reflects my lack of thrill for the medium.
So-o-o pleased GW is going the plastic route on just about everything now - much better material to fool around with.

 ciaotym wrote:
I bought a Haemy finecast to try it out and it sucked. Bubble on foot was fixable, but the model 'floats' on it's coat and cants at a 30 degree angle.
May try a heat gun on it, but I prefer plastic as it is easier to work with conversion-wise, and finecast models are too light - the plastic base weighs
more than the model. And I don't need the extra 'detail', plastic has enough detail for me. Never buying another finecast. I did trade for a set of finecast
Harlequins about a year ago before I bought the Haemy, and they appear OK, but I still haven't painted them which reflects my lack of thrill for the medium.
So-o-o pleased GW is going the plastic route on just about everything now - much better material to fool around with.

There's no question that MPP on HIPS is the best medium for models, cost aside. Still, I think it's appropriate to respect that in the transition from metal to plastic, resin was a necessary intermediate step, and that GW's transition to MPP is going to happen over many, many years. Not all finecast models are alike, either. Some, like the Fire Dragons above, are essentially done just like metal models. Others, like the Grotesque, is done just like MPP. In the meantime, if you want to play with a particular model, you really have no choice.

Also, it's worth mentioning that Citadel MPP is far, far better than its competitors plastics (PVC and resin plastic composites or whatever you call them from PP is awful) -- so you're really comparing finecast against one of the best materials in the industry, certainly for fit and ease. Another way to put it is, is there a material other than HIPS that you like?

Remember too that once upon a time, not so long ago, every model that was multipart required extensive work to assemble, pieces had to be painstakingly and manually pinned, and gaps had to be filled and sculpted from epoxies like milliput. And, metal models often had difficult remediation. Finecast is actually a big improvement from that.

Talys wrote:
There's no question that MPP on HIPS is the best medium for models, cost aside.

I disagree with this. The best material for models is well-cast resin. You get better detail than plastic, assembling/converting/etc it is just as easy (and often easier), and the only drawback is that it tends to cost more (a fairly minor issue IMO since you get what you pay for). The problem with finecast isn't that it's resin, it's that it's extremely low-quality resin that's produced with poor methods and nonexistent quality control.

Talys wrote:
Both are Finecast, and I don't particularly see anything wrong that would make me scream and demand a refund.

There's nothing that would make me scream and demand a refund... if they cost half the price of what they do. But I can see lots of little bubbles on those Fire Dragons that stop them from being high quality models. There's bubbles on the helmet's jaw line (for lack of a better word) on each of them, there's bubbles on the back of the hands of 2 of them, all of them have bubbles on the guns themselves in various places. Things that might not bother me on cheap table top quality models that aren't intended to be viewed up close, but annoy the hell out of me on high end models (and GW prices them as high end models).

Peregrine wrote:

Talys wrote:
There's no question that MPP on HIPS is the best medium for models, cost aside.

I disagree with this. The best material for models is well-cast resin. You get better detail than plastic, assembling/converting/etc it is just as easy (and often easier), and the only drawback is that it tends to cost more (a fairly minor issue IMO since you get what you pay for). The problem with finecast isn't that it's resin, it's that it's extremely low-quality resin that's produced with poor methods and nonexistent quality control.

I've not had resin kits where all the pieces fit with the same precision as an MPP kit, and no matter what, they are more fragile (less drop resistant). In my opinion, plastic is easier to work with too. For example, if you were to make a Skyshield out of resin, gluing it together would be murder, since you can't use plastic cement. But whatever, to each their own.

Once upon a time, I think the detail argument could be made, but I don't think so anymore. Top notch HIPS models have just as much detail now -- if you compare GW resin kits that have gone plastic, I just can't imagine anyone choosing the resin. And, it's cool you can get a Thunderhawk in resin, but I bet most modelers would prefer it in MPP.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Talys wrote:
Both are Finecast, and I don't particularly see anything wrong that would make me scream and demand a refund.

There's nothing that would make me scream and demand a refund... if they cost half the price of what they do. But I can see lots of little bubbles on those Fire Dragons that stop them from being high quality models. There's bubbles on the helmet's jaw line (for lack of a better word) on each of them, there's bubbles on the back of the hands of 2 of them, all of them have bubbles on the guns themselves in various places. Things that might not bother me on cheap table top quality models that aren't intended to be viewed up close, but annoy the hell out of me on high end models (and GW prices them as high end models).

Those are easily cleaned up deficiencies, though, not unsolvable issues. As I said, if you compare them to older metal models, I don't think the prep time and finished model quality is all that different. And my point was really just, if you want a Fire Dragon or Grotesque, that's what's available; yes, I would prefer them both in HIPS and the Fire Dragons in multipart instead of single piece single pose, but as someone said before..... better than nothing if that's what you want to field.

Those models look pretty good painted and finished, by the way -- it just takes a little more work.

Talys wrote:

Peregrine wrote:

Talys wrote:
There's no question that MPP on HIPS is the best medium for models, cost aside.

I disagree with this. The best material for models is well-cast resin. You get better detail than plastic, assembling/converting/etc it is just as easy (and often easier), and the only drawback is that it tends to cost more (a fairly minor issue IMO since you get what you pay for). The problem with finecast isn't that it's resin, it's that it's extremely low-quality resin that's produced with poor methods and nonexistent quality control.

I've not had resin kits where all the pieces fit with the same precision as an MPP kit, and no matter what, they are more fragile (less drop resistant). In my opinion, plastic is easier to work with too. For example, if you were to make a Skyshield out of resin, gluing it together would be murder, since you can't use plastic cement. But whatever, to each their own.

Once upon a time, I think the detail argument could be made, but I don't think so anymore. Top notch HIPS models have just as much detail now -- if you compare GW resin kits that have gone plastic, I just can't imagine anyone choosing the resin. And, it's cool you can get a Thunderhawk in resin, but I bet most modelers would prefer it in MPP.

Then I'd humbly suggest you've not dealt with very many decent resin kits. Certainly, because of the nature of the process there's more room for human input and variance than with a HIPs kit, but there is nothing inherent to the process that means they go together less precisely. As for fragility? Perhaps, on some of the thinner pieces, but if the resin used is of the right mix, again, there's no reason thinner pieces of resin can't be almost as, if not just as, resilient. Plus you always have the ability to heat and reset bent components. If you want a demonstration of how tough resin can be, I suggest you drop a FW GUO body or Sicaran track unit on your foot, you'll be limping for days.

I also wouldn't subscribe to the theory that somehow poly cement is superior to super glue, it's just a different tool for working with a different material, and one only has to look within Forgeworld to see how large resin kits can get, and while I've yet to build any of their massive kits, I've certainly put together enough of the larger ones to conclude that while presenting a different modelling challenge, I don't think they're any more challenging than a large plastic kit.

I don't think you're right about detail either. Resin has a much greater resolution of detail than plastic, and people working in resin still seem to hand sculpt more frequently, at least in part, which, to me, gives many resin minis a greater soul than CAD plastic ones. That's drifting into the realms of subjectivity though, so here's an objective fact - plastics are still limited in their ability to do undercuts, so until a system that allows for that is developed, or enters wider use, you'll always be limited in what you can do in plastic vs resin.

Basically, Peregrine has the right of it. Normally, resin is awesome, FC is just gak resin.

Talys wrote:
Those models look pretty good painted and finished, by the way -- it just takes a little more work.

Of course, but not extra work that I expect to have to do when paying such a large premium, especially when you consider the metals that preceded them didn't have the same flaws (I have had flawed metals, but it's only been a couple out of probably a hundred or so models, not every single model like the FC ones). They aren't always easy to fix either, bubbles on the tips of spikes are quite fiddly to fix and my Commissar (one of only a few FC models I've bought) had the bubble right on his nose and also on the brim of his hat. Then you have the times when you think you got all the bubbles but when you're painting it you realise you missed some.

I don't consider that acceptable from a product that claims to be premium and is priced as such, which is why I said...

"There's nothing that would make me scream and demand a refund... if they cost half the price of what they do."


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 Azreal13 wrote:
Plus you always have the ability to heat and reset bent components

Bent stuff is one of the big problems I have with resin. You can rebend it, but some stuff is damned near impossible to get straight and even if you manage to get it straight down the track it's liable to go back to its old position.

Wow, that's harsh. Since you've been in this for 20+ years and have worked with metal models, do you recall large size metal models, and how difficult they were to assemble and keep from breaking when you actually gamed with them? I mean, it took more hours to assemble a 30 piece dragon than it would to build, prep, paint, finish, play and retire of a resin model of today of comparable size.

It may be harsh, but it's the truth as I see it. Even my wife, who is not into modeling but is familiar with the ins and outs of the hobby from years with me turned her nose up at Finecast when she saw it at the store. She was perusing blisters, and wondered if all the bent parts and pitting was normal. I know that from looking at what I can see in the blisters and trying to look through half a dozen of the same figure trying to find one that was acceptable, I would NEVER buy anything that is in a box, and thus unseen until it is opened.

There used to be several large models, usually ones with large bulky halves, that required putty work (stegadons, etc) but they never needed more putty work along the joins that I was not comfortable with. I admit that once in a while something like the Helcannon or the Thunderfire cannon was horrible to work with, but the benefit of the "old days" is that you learned to deal with metal in it's own way back then as it was the only thing out there. I have also never had a model fall apart during handling or gaming, but I also judiciously pin everything that looks like it would be fragile. Like the old High Elf serpentine dragons. Have assembled several of them and they are still going strong, even with some of the parts that were too small to be pinned. I have 5 metal Space Marine dreadnoughts versus 1 plastic one, spread across three armies and I love them all and they see as much use as anything plastic. I have entire squads of metal torso Imperial and Chaos Space Marines from back in the day, and yeah I scraped plenty of mould lines, but they are indestructible.

There is the more practical issue of how you play the game without ever touching Finecast (if you actually play 40k). There aren't any factions that have *no* Finecast; I think Tau are the only playable faction if you remove all Finecast pieces (I think Ethereals are Finecast). Every other faction I can think of has either key heroes or core units (or both) that are Finecast.

Not a problem if you have been in the game for a long time. Lots of my armies are from older editions, so while I do not have the latest and greatest models that are in Finecast, they are still fieldable, especially with conversions. Or they actually have the old metal versions before GW went to Finecast in the first place. For example, my Eldar army is the newest army I have been working on for just the last couple years, and everything is metal. All my Rangers and Aspect Warriors are metal that was bought off Ebay. Because I am not worried about a couple of days of sitting in Simple Green before painting, most of my units were bought for half (or less) of the cost of their Finecast counterparts. My squad of Dark Reapers that matches the Finecast ones cost me 15 dollars, and I have a squad of Wraithguard that never cost more than 10 dollars a model from back when they went over to Finecast but before plastics came out. I bought some metal Ork Nobs in mega armor, fully assembled and primed, for 10 dollars (each) at Gencon last summer from the Bits seller there. I sorted through some broken Finecast Wraithguard until I found a couple of mint condition metal ones.

Other than some obvious characters, there are always workarounds for Finecast units in 40K, because nearly all of the units used to have metal versions. And some of the characters, too.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Like the old High Elf serpentine dragons. Have assembled several of them and they are still going strong, even with some of the parts that were too small to be pinned. I have 5 metal Space Marine dreadnoughts versus 1 plastic one, spread across three armies and I love them all and they see as much use as anything plastic. I have entire squads of metal torso Imperial and Chaos Space Marines from back in the day, and yeah I scraped plenty of mould lines, but they are indestructible.

Building a Sisters of Twilight Dragon right now. It reminds me, really, of how much I hated large metal miniatures. But, it was a Christmas gift from my wife, so c'est la vie.

Old metal marines were indestructible because they were single piece and had no parts that stuck out. Take something like a Farseer with a staff, though (made of metal). Drop him, and the top of the staff breaks off.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
For example, my Eldar army is the newest army I have been working on for just the last couple years, and everything is metal. All my Rangers and Aspect Warriors are metal that was bought off Ebay. Because I am not worried about a couple of days of sitting in Simple Green before painting, most of my units were bought for half (or less) of the cost of their Finecast counterparts. My squad of Dark Reapers that matches the Finecast ones cost me 15 dollars, and I have a squad of Wraithguard that never cost more than 10 dollars a model from back when they went over to Finecast but before plastics came out. I bought some metal Ork Nobs in mega armor, fully assembled and primed, for 10 dollars (each) at Gencon last summer from the Bits seller there. I sorted through some broken Finecast Wraithguard until I found a couple of mint condition metal ones.

Other than some obvious characters, there are always workarounds for Finecast units in 40K, because nearly all of the units used to have metal versions. And some of the characters, too.

Well, I guess nobody will ever complain about serpent spam playing with you

But seriously, uhhh... if your ENTIRE Eldar army is metal, that means all the models were pre-4th edition releases. Off the top of my head, that excludes at least Wraith Serpent, Wraithlord, Fire Dragons, Wraithguard. I don't even remember any Pre-fourth vehicles except falcons and fire prisms. And even Guardians went plastic in 2nd. I mean, play whatever army makes you happy, but 1850 points of metal sounds like a large, painful footslogging infantry Eldar army with the only nice unit being jetbikes.

Of around twenty Finecast models purchased from GW, not one has not required one round of return and replacement. Most of them have demanded at least three rounds of the same, and even then every one has needed a bit of fixing-up with greenstuff, or swapping-out miscast guns or swords for plastics. (Storm bolters in particular are something that just won't cast properly.)

After all those annoyances, however, resin is easier to work with - not having to use a dremel to take heads out is a plus - once cleaned and fixed, and seems less prone to bending and chipping once painted.

On its own merits, I won't be sad to see Finecast go. It will be a shame, however, if the backlash against GW's poor selection of casting material and method and their unrealistic marketing claims results in a less diverse miniature range, and the disappearance of some my favourite old sculpts.

 Lord of Misrule wrote:
Of around twenty Finecast models purchased from GW, not one has not required one round of return and replacement. Most of them have demanded at least three rounds of the same, and even then every one has needed a bit of fixing-up with greenstuff, or swapping-out miscast guns or swords for plastics. (Storm bolters in particular are something that just won't cast properly.)

3 rounds? That seems a bit excessive and I can understand peoples displeasure. I do have a question though. Would this mean that you got 3 rounds of minis you get to keep? So you got 3 minis 30 minis for the price of 10? Not sure fixing them would be worth it, but now you have 30 minis instead of 10. So maybe it was worth it. That is if you got to keep them all for your troubles.

Davor wrote:

 Lord of Misrule wrote:
Of around twenty Finecast models purchased from GW, not one has not required one round of return and replacement. Most of them have demanded at least three rounds of the same, and even then every one has needed a bit of fixing-up with greenstuff, or swapping-out miscast guns or swords for plastics. (Storm bolters in particular are something that just won't cast properly.)

3 rounds? That seems a bit excessive and I can understand peoples displeasure. I do have a question though. Would this mean that you got 3 rounds of minis you get to keep? So you got 3 minis 30 minis for the price of 10? Not sure fixing them would be worth it, but now you have 30 minis instead of 10. So maybe it was worth it. That is if you got to keep them all for your troubles.

I've gotten to keep the models I've gotten replacements for, though I have heard some people have had to send them back (probably because of the sheer volume of replacements they are having to do). I've taken photos of mine when I request a replacement though.

Frankly, I'd rather have 1 good model than 3 for the price of 1 where they all have heaps of flaws and I'm having to wait and wait before I get a decent one.

It doesn't really help me that I have 3 flawed Lord Commissar models and waiting a week and a half between each one. 1 good one would have been preferable.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Davor wrote:

 Lord of Misrule wrote:
Of around twenty Finecast models purchased from GW, not one has not required one round of return and replacement. Most of them have demanded at least three rounds of the same, and even then every one has needed a bit of fixing-up with greenstuff, or swapping-out miscast guns or swords for plastics. (Storm bolters in particular are something that just won't cast properly.)

3 rounds? That seems a bit excessive and I can understand peoples displeasure. I do have a question though. Would this mean that you got 3 rounds of minis you get to keep? So you got 3 minis 30 minis for the price of 10? Not sure fixing them would be worth it, but now you have 30 minis instead of 10. So maybe it was worth it. That is if you got to keep them all for your troubles.

I've gotten to keep the models I've gotten replacements for, though I have heard some people have had to send them back (probably because of the sheer volume of replacements they are having to do). I've taken photos of mine when I request a replacement though.

Frankly, I'd rather have 1 good model than 3 for the price of 1 where they all have heaps of flaws and I'm having to wait and wait before I get a decent one.

It doesn't really help me that I have 3 flawed Lord Commissar models and waiting a week and a half between each one. 1 good one would have been preferable.

I just take them back to my FLGS, and they swap it for me right away. If they don't have a second one, GW sends one out by FedEx, and it's pretty quick, at least here in North America. This has happened to me even on plastics, though. With GW, I have never had to send anything to them -- just a photo has sufficed.

Well, I guess nobody will ever complain about serpent spam playing with you

But seriously, uhhh... if your ENTIRE Eldar army is metal, that means all the models were pre-4th edition releases. Off the top of my head, that excludes at least Wraith Serpent, Wraithlord, Fire Dragons, Wraithguard. I don't even remember any Pre-fourth vehicles except falcons and fire prisms. And even Guardians went plastic in 2nd. I mean, play whatever army makes you happy, but 1850 points of metal sounds like a large, painful footslogging infantry Eldar army with the only nice unit being jetbikes.

Argh! LOL.

Sorry, all the talk of Finecast, what I really I meant to say that everything that is now in Finecast is metal in my army, sorry! Brain Fart. I meant that my Rangers, Aspect Warriors, Warlocks, and Farseer are all metal. Everything else is plastic, including Autarch conversions on both foot and jetbike, and my Shining Spears are actually conversions of the new Dark Eldar jetbikers holding Dark Elf Cold One spears (the arms where they are couches like they are jousting/charging). Even my Swooping Hawks are conversions using the new Scourges, as I never liked the official models, even in metal.

And technically my (one) Wave Serpent is not a completely plastic kit, as it's one of the old early Forgeworld resin conversions, where the back troops section and the turret are resin, back from the early 2000's.

Never had anything break off that was metal, though, unless it had been extremely bent several times so the material got weakened. Even spear, staff, and long weapon tips. I tend to only play over carpet, though.

Davor wrote:
3 rounds? That seems a bit excessive and I can understand peoples displeasure. I do have a question though. Would this mean that you got 3 rounds of minis you get to keep? So you got 3 minis 30 minis for the price of 10? Not sure fixing them would be worth it, but now you have 30 minis instead of 10. So maybe it was worth it. That is if you got to keep them all for your troubles.

It seems to depend upon the whim of the redshirt/alignment of the stars whether or not I get to keep the miscasts. In a few cases, I could probably either turn things I've been allowed to keep into something worth painting with some fixing/replacing of miscast bits with plastics, or at least put the bits to good use in kitbashes. I think I have five reasonably well-cast Terminator Chaplain bodies, which would be great if I wanted five Terminator chaplains with identical bodies but different plastic arms; sadly I don't, so they're all in the big box of 'unuseable crap I'm somehow unwilling to throw away'.

Even if I had been able to put these 'bonuses' to use, however; I'd cheerfully have traded that for having the miniatures I wanted at the time I wanted them, without week after week of driving to to the local GW for more exchanges every Saturday, waiting another week for them to be shipped, etc.

For the sake of anecdotally adding some broader context, I've bought a similar number of McVey resins for display projects, and never had one miscast; indeed the mould lines on them have sometimes been so slight I've needed a raking light to find them. In that light, even if I am the victim of some unlikely statistical fluke - which I doubt, given, for instance, Mathieu Raymond's well-documented twenty-odd miscasts of the same figure - you'll understand why I have been left somewhat with a somewhat sour opinion on 'the best toy soldiers in the world'.

Talys wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Davor wrote:

 Lord of Misrule wrote:
Of around twenty Finecast models purchased from GW, not one has not required one round of return and replacement. Most of them have demanded at least three rounds of the same, and even then every one has needed a bit of fixing-up with greenstuff, or swapping-out miscast guns or swords for plastics. (Storm bolters in particular are something that just won't cast properly.)

3 rounds? That seems a bit excessive and I can understand peoples displeasure. I do have a question though. Would this mean that you got 3 rounds of minis you get to keep? So you got 3 minis 30 minis for the price of 10? Not sure fixing them would be worth it, but now you have 30 minis instead of 10. So maybe it was worth it. That is if you got to keep them all for your troubles.

I've gotten to keep the models I've gotten replacements for, though I have heard some people have had to send them back (probably because of the sheer volume of replacements they are having to do). I've taken photos of mine when I request a replacement though.

Frankly, I'd rather have 1 good model than 3 for the price of 1 where they all have heaps of flaws and I'm having to wait and wait before I get a decent one.

It doesn't really help me that I have 3 flawed Lord Commissar models and waiting a week and a half between each one. 1 good one would have been preferable.

I just take them back to my FLGS, and they swap it for me right away. If they don't have a second one, GW sends one out by FedEx, and it's pretty quick, at least here in North America. This has happened to me even on plastics, though. With GW, I have never had to send anything to them -- just a photo has sufficed.

I've only bought one FC thing from my local GW which was flawed and I didn't want to waste an hour + fuel going to get a replacement knowing full well the replacement would probably be flawed as well, so I just spent that hour fixing it instead.

The other couple of things I've bought online and so got them replaced via the online support email. The original model usually comes in a couple of days, but the replacements have been 1 to 2 weeks.

Davor wrote:
3 rounds? That seems a bit excessive and I can understand peoples displeasure. I do have a question though. Would this mean that you got 3 rounds of minis you get to keep? So you got 3 minis 30 minis for the price of 10? Not sure fixing them would be worth it, but now you have 30 minis instead of 10. So maybe it was worth it. That is if you got to keep them all for your troubles.

Yeah, you get extra models, but who cares? If I'm demanding a replacement for something it's because it's a defective product. If it's something with only minor flaws that I'd be willing to fix then I wouldn't be asking for a new one. So the absolute best I can hope for is that the defective ones have at least some undamaged parts that I can save for future conversion work, but even then it's still finecast and a horrible material to work with. The more likely outcome is that I have a whole pile of useless garbage to throw away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Talys wrote:
I've not had resin kits where all the pieces fit with the same precision as an MPP kit

IMO the precision of GW's plastic kits is highly overrated. My plastic kits have had just as many gaps to fill, misaligned parts, etc, as the resin equivalents. Plastic kits might be faster to assemble if you don't care about the quality of the finished product and don't bother with things like filling gaps, but if you want to do it right you're spending about the same amount of time and effort.

Top notch HIPS models have just as much detail now

Well then GW's models aren't top notch. Resin still wins by a solid margin over GW's plastic kits.

This thread is a little too active, isn't it?
Did not expect this...

Raw nerve.

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
This thread is a little too active, isn't it?
Did not expect this...

A very large portion of the community hates finecast. From the moment we first saw pics on the GW site and even their own display models had little bubbles people have hated it.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 KaptinBadrukk wrote:
This thread is a little too active, isn't it?
Did not expect this...

A very large portion of the community hates finecast. From the moment we first saw pics on the GW site and even their own display models had little bubbles people have hated it.

When recasts from China have a better quality than your own product, you've fethed up.

Oh, I see now.
very man people hate finecast.

 Peregrine wrote:

IMO the precision of GW's plastic kits is highly overrated. My plastic kits have had just as many gaps to fill, misaligned parts, etc, as the resin equivalents. Plastic kits might be faster to assemble if you don't care about the quality of the finished product and don't bother with things like filling gaps, but if you want to do it right you're spending about the same amount of time and effort.

I disagree. I can't remember the last time a plastic GW kit had parts that were misaligned. Resin can be deformed (reshaped after it's been cast), and HIPS can't -- it will break, so whatever form it was made in, is the form it will stay in.

Plastic Cement is a wonderful tool that you can't use on resin.

And while I believe it's important to fill gaps that matter, many current kits are designed so that many (not all) gaps don't matter -- the two pieces connect at a place where they should be two distinct pieces, and the gap is natural.

By the way, I spend tons of time (often hours) preparing each model, plastic or resin, to ensure that the finished product is as perfect as I can make it.

 Peregrine wrote:

Well then GW's models aren't top notch. Resin still wins by a solid margin over GW's plastic kits.

By Resin, I can only suppose you mean FW kits. I can't really think of any scifi resin kits that are superior to GW plastic kits for fit -- or that I like more, anyhow. Certainly not Privateer Press.

Other than Colossals and maybe some limited figures (I think, could be wrong), Privateer Press does not have anything that is "resin" in the way the term is being meant here. That, and the stuff from Mantic, is restic, and noones ever said that stuff is equal to hard resin!

But lots of resin is as good as HIPS. Like the stuff from Anvil, for one, or Kromlech.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Other than Colossals and maybe some limited figures (I think, could be wrong), Privateer Press does not have anything that is "resin" in the way the term is being meant here. That, and the stuff from Mantic, is restic, and noones ever said that stuff is equal to hard resin!

But lots of resin is as good as HIPS. Like the stuff from Anvil, for one, or Kromlech.

There are some resin/metal kits, like Bradigus and Borka. The resin cape on Bradigus, for example is a large part of the model, and cleaning up pegs on it is awful (they're huge).

All the restic kits I categorize as equivalent in desirability as less desirable than resin. Definitely worse by a country mile to HIPS. None of my local shops carry Anvil or Kromlech, so I can't say.

Davor wrote:
It's more complaining about GW for complaining sakes. I don't see any legitimate complaints here. I see whining. I don't see any posts saying I that they bought a Finecast and the replacement of the replacement of the replacement were all defective. That is a legitimate complaint. None of that in this thread. Just Finecast sucks.

Buying a product and having it turn out to be faulty is a legitimate complaint.

GW replacing faulty 'Fine'cast models isn't in itself a sign of outstanding customer service. It's what is required of them by law. You don't invalidate some cosmic right to complain about having received a faulty product just because the company replaced it.


'Fine'cast is bad. GW knows it's bad. But they continue to sell it, because they decided that it was better for them in the long run to keep selling their faulty resin and replacing the casts that people complain about than to scrap the lot and start over, because a lot of people just won't bother to complain about the more minor flaws.

That's a reason for complaint. For a company that takes such pride in calling themselves the market leader to think that a product with the track record that 'Fine'cast has is something that they should have kept selling is just ludicrous, and GW's customers should take every opportunity to point that out to them. Because otherwise, you run the risk of GW deciding that this level of quality is actually in some way acceptable.

I'm not sure why "Finecast just sucks" would not be considered a legitimate complaint