Short answer (lol no pun intended) is that no one knows yet. There are a lot of rumours about them getting squatted (see what I did there?) - an existing thread on these rumours and more can be found here:
Rumours say they will likely be rolled in with Empire/Bretonnia into Legions of the good guys.
My theory is that they'll become a nomadic, airship-dwelling army. Sort of like 40K eldar. Of all the things to update they gave them two new flier models with their 8th edition book, the fluff is full of pictures of big dwarfen airships, and Hastings long ago said that he saw a big dwarfen model that has yet to be released.
If you're saying the dwarfs will be merged into another army, that's not good. They're good on their own.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DWARFS NEED TO REMAIN SEPERATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shoved into the Empire so they barely have to write any lore for them anymore and can get to writing more of their favourite Elven Master Race fanfiction-quality stuff about how the God-Emperor of the Imperium worships statues of Tyrion and Maelkith for being so amazing.
Arbitrator wrote: Shoved into the Empire so they barely have to write any lore for them anymore and can get to writing more of their favourite Elven Master Race fanfiction-quality stuff about how the God-Emperor of the Imperium worships statues of Tyrion and Maelkith for being so amazing.
They'll be driven to despair and turn into Dwarf Fortress style Dwarfs: borderline insane alcoholics who wander around building forts everywhere, murdering everything that comes near, and then getting destroyed. But at least you'll be able to field giant lava cannons with your army.
Current prevailing opinion is that they're going to get rolled into the human armies somehow. This is largely conjecture and wishful thinking (including mine!) because there's no proof of it at all. There's also no proof that they're going away yet, but if the fluff is any indication, the dwarfs are screwed.
My opinion: 90% likely that they get folded into some Human / Dwarf alliance (which will basically be the remnants of the Empire, Dwarfs, and Bretonnians). 10% likely they have dinner reservations with the Dodo, Brontosaur, and Squats.
Well, here is the rundown through End Times: Thanquol:
Spoiler:
Nagash: Thorek is killed by Neferata after destroying the Anvil of Doom (and Kraggi and the other anvil guards die too). In the same battle, Krell kills King Kazador, the king of Karak Azul. Also, Nagash consumes the magic of Dwarfen Goddess Valaya. Glottkin and Khaine contain no dwarfs.
Dwarfs play a much larger role in Thanquol. Karak Kadrin is nearly defended successfully by Ungrim Ironfist until Ikit Claw sends two abominations through the front doors of the hold strapped with bombs and filled with plague to explode and kill all of the dwarfs inside. At the same time, many of the other great holds have fallen. Meanwhile, Belegar holds off for a long time in trying to defend Karak Eight Peaks is killed by Queek Headtaker when the hold is finally taken/destroyed. Queek then presented Belegar's head to Skarsnik as a part of their agreement to allow the Skaven to take/destroy Karak Eight Peaks. After this, Ungrim is attempting to bring whatever survivors he can find back for a final defense at Karaz-a-Karak when he touches the Shrine of Grimnir and is infused with the wind of fire and becomes the Incarnate of Fire.
At Karaz-a-Karak, a two pronged army of Skaven led by Queek and Ikit Claw are mounting an attack when Thorgrim leads the remaining host out onto the battlefield in an attempt to destroy the attackers before they could get organized. In the battle, Ungrim and his allies show up from one side of the battle while Bugman and his miners appear from another part of the battle to supply support at the right time. The Dwarfs end up winning the battle in a devastating fashion as the Skaven army crumbles completely. Throgrim then matches up one-on-one with Queek after being attacked by an assassin. Thorgrim's rage overtakes him and he ends up crushing Queek's neck in his hands and then completely smashing his head on the ground after he was dead. After the battle, Thorgrim is climbing to an overlook of his destroyed kingdom, remembering the dead and realizing that his wound from the assassin was not healing. While peering over the world and wondering what the next move should be, Thorgrim is killed by Sniktch, his final thoughts lamenting the grudges left unrighted and realizing that they killed him by stabbing him in the back.
Now, where does that leave the Dwarfs? Who really knows. In the forum post about the Archaon book in the News and Rumors forum, there are some images that give a bit more of a hint, that
Spoiler:
Caradryan from the High Elves becomes the Incarnate of Fire at some point, meaning that Ungrim either dies or the wind of fire leaves him in some way. Also, in the shot of all of the incarnates united, there is a picture of a Dwarfen Runelord along with them in a major battle against Archaon that seems to be a new character. Whether Bugman ends up doing anything, nothing has been leaked as of yet.
So, hopefully that catches you up to what has happened with the Dwarfs. They seem to be in the same fate as the Empire, Bretonnia and Lizardmen, which is extremely dire. Really, the only factions that so far have done well for themselves are Chaos (obviously), Undead, Skaven (I mean, they destroyed one of the moons for 's sake) and really the Elves. Orcs and Goblins and Ogre Kingdoms have been mostly non-existent (minus Skarsnik's appearance in Thanquol).
Current prevailing opinion is that they're going to get rolled into the human armies somehow. This is largely conjecture and wishful thinking (including mine!) because there's no proof of it at all.
The only thing remotely approaching proof would be the picture of a skaven army ready to battle a combined Empire, Ogres and Dwarves force. Of course, that could just be an allied armies force or something.
Current prevailing opinion is that they're going to get rolled into the human armies somehow. This is largely conjecture and wishful thinking (including mine!) because there's no proof of it at all.
The only thing remotely approaching proof would be the picture of a skaven army ready to battle a combined Empire, Ogres and Dwarves force. Of course, that could just be an allied armies force or something.
If you've read Thanquol, you'd know that the chances of Dwarfs and Ogres combining is basically zero now. Which sucks, I was totally up for a Dwarf + Ogre union .
Current prevailing opinion is that they're going to get rolled into the human armies somehow. This is largely conjecture and wishful thinking (including mine!) because there's no proof of it at all.
The only thing remotely approaching proof would be the picture of a skaven army ready to battle a combined Empire, Ogres and Dwarves force. Of course, that could just be an allied armies force or something.
Well, Grimgor's Locus buffs Ogre units in the same army.
Current prevailing opinion is that they're going to get rolled into the human armies somehow. This is largely conjecture and wishful thinking (including mine!) because there's no proof of it at all.
The only thing remotely approaching proof would be the picture of a skaven army ready to battle a combined Empire, Ogres and Dwarves force. Of course, that could just be an allied armies force or something.
Well, Grimgor's Locus buffs Ogre units in the same army.
Last i checked, Grimgor's an orc, right ? Unless the old world has the racial equivalent of gender reassignment. All kidding aside, given what i was responding to in my quote, i don't get the context of your statement given what you quoted of mine.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
AnomanderRake wrote: The rumour mill claims they're teaming up with the Empire, doesn't it?
At one time yes, its more strongly suggested (with a bit of anecdotal evidence) that they will end up in O&G.
There are some believe that they will be split between whatever human faction there is that has empire in them and O&G.
Based on what we currently know right now, my money would be on them being folded into O&G slightly more reliable than anything else (because we have one piece of anecdotal evidence that they might be able to be in an army with O&G, and basically nothing for anything else other than fluff which stated some were marching towards the empire.).
Current prevailing opinion is that they're going to get rolled into the human armies somehow. This is largely conjecture and wishful thinking (including mine!) because there's no proof of it at all.
The only thing remotely approaching proof would be the picture of a skaven army ready to battle a combined Empire, Ogres and Dwarves force. Of course, that could just be an allied armies force or something.
Well, Grimgor's Locus buffs Ogre units in the same army.
Last i checked, Grimgor's an orc, right ? Unless the old world has the racial equivalent of gender reassignment. All kidding aside, given what i was responding to in my quote, i don't get the context of your statement given what you quoted of mine.
Grimgor's incarnate buff points to OnG and Ogres being rolled up.
It's already known that Dwarfs got their asses kicked by Skaven pretty hardcore. Dwarfs lost the war and the only thing left for debate is whether they will make it into 9th at all or just get gutted.
Maybe, they build a giant cannon to shoot themselves on a moon or something. But that would be ridicu...wait.
Sigvatr wrote: It's already known that Dwarfs got their asses kicked by Skaven pretty hardcore. Dwarfs lost the war and the only thing left for debate is whether they will make it into 9th at all or just get gutted.
Maybe, they build a giant cannon to shoot themselves on a moon or something. But that would be ridicu...wait.
The dwarfs MUST survive. They have to. Even if they are folded into another race, that is still surviving.
God help the dwarfs.
Makes no sense for Ogres to team up with the greenskins except in a overlord type of capacity since they look at O&Gs as a source of food and/or entertainment. Conversely they have a looong history of being mercenaries in the human Empire.
Ultimately, conjecture doesn't matter because GW will change the fluff to fit their ends (pun intended).
The thing that royally irks me about the whole dwarf thing is that if Ikit could wipe out dwarf holds with a couple of suicide bomber abominations, why didn't he do it long before? Nevermind, I tried to stop making sense of GW's writing years ago because none of their writers actually seem to be able to create a coherent plot structure.
Sigvatr wrote: It's already known that Dwarfs got their asses kicked by Skaven pretty hardcore. Dwarfs lost the war and the only thing left for debate is whether they will make it into 9th at all or just get gutted.
Maybe, they build a giant cannon to shoot themselves on a moon or something. But that would be ridicu...wait.
The dwarfs MUST survive. They have to. Even if they are folded into another race, that is still surviving.
God help the dwarfs.
I dint mind if dwarfs survive if they loathe majority of their war machines. Which is likely, as the survivors are all slayers.
If the majority of the suriviving Imperial dwarves are Slayers - and that seems to be the way they are going - they are not going to produce another generation from that gene pool.
The Empire does (or did) have asubstantial and quite well intergrated population of dwarves (which gets ignored in WFB) anyway so they might keep the race going - if any part of the Empire survives and GW don't push the reset button.
"So they're unbreakable?" -- yup
"So each one is a "character" --yup
"So I can only ever allocate attacks to one of them" --yup
"So at minimum it will take me as many round of combat as there are models in the unit" --yup
"So my 1k point deathstar is being held up for 5 combats by literally 5 dwarfs?" --yup
"I hate slayer darts" --yup
Current prevailing opinion is that they're going to get rolled into the human armies somehow. This is largely conjecture and wishful thinking (including mine!) because there's no proof of it at all.
The only thing remotely approaching proof would be the picture of a skaven army ready to battle a combined Empire, Ogres and Dwarves force. Of course, that could just be an allied armies force or something.
Well, Grimgor's Locus buffs Ogre units in the same army.
Last i checked, Grimgor's an orc, right ? Unless the old world has the racial equivalent of gender reassignment. All kidding aside, given what i was responding to in my quote, i don't get the context of your statement given what you quoted of mine.
Grimgor's incarnate buff points to OnG and Ogres being rolled up.
.... i know. ... nevermind. We're saying the same thing but not understanding how the other is saying it i think. Ogres are almost assuredly going to O&G, unless they do some weird ass hybrid of Ogres can go with O&G or Empire, or some kind of unbound thing (of which there is currently zero evidence).
Aye. Dwarfs have always been the most terribly balanced army in the game. If an army has an insane winrate just by litereally stuffing as many war machines as they can in the corner of the board, up to a point where it's banned to do at tournaments, then you have to question yourself as a rules author. The introduction of the rune amboss made it even worse...more static shooting, awesome.
The simple fact is that as of right now, we have NO concrete evidence that such is being done "post-End Times" and completely removing Dwarfs as a faction.
So please, stop discussing this stuff as if it is fact, and acting as though it is a hundred percent done.
The simple fact is that as of right now, we have NO concrete evidence that such is being done "post-End Times" and completely removing Dwarfs as a faction.
So please, stop discussing this stuff as if it is fact, and acting as though it is a hundred percent done.
I just said they said it. And so what? It's more than nothing. BOLS has been right about the majority of end times releases. Sure some has been wrong but the jist has been correct.
I'm not saying it is fact, but it is something to think on.
If there were 6 armies total, leaving us with three good and three evil armies, then I would guess...
Order 1. Humanity (Empire/Brets)
2. Elves
3. Dwarfs
Destruction 1. Undead (VC/TK)
2. Chaos (and Skaven? they might fit under 'beasts' of chaos)
3. Orcs n Goblins (and Ogres?)
Each army is a counter point to the other in respect of playstyle, lore and 'look and feel'. There is a common theme of post-apocalyptic chaos
I think due to the recent lore changes, the elven society will split again, those seeking to foster alliances to survive in the post-End Times world, and those who will take by force to survive. Both elven societies will devolve to more semi-nomadic, reclusive societies akin to wood elves, and will absorb wood elven elements into their respective cultures. Nature can both nurture and cull, so reflecting this in life and death, light and shadow, good and evil fits.
End times for humanity will have broken the existing political institutions - a common religious and civic culture will emerge, and I would guess that bretonnian lords and imperial counts will form some grand union of humanity to lead the remnants to a new combined human realm under KFA/Sigmar and the Lady of the Lake.
The lore has been fairly savage to the existing dwarven society, and some fear they will be wiped out completely. I guess they wanted to radically change their culture and society to move them away from defensive, static lore (and thus playstyle) to a more nomadic, perhaps steampunkesque direction. I hope to see faster dwarves (perhaps not cav), with golems, airships, runes and berserkers. Whilst I don't think they will remove dwarven ranged elements entirely, they may be 'wiping the slate clean' to redesign the dwarf playstyle away from castling.
After all, dwarfs should be running *towards* a melee eagerly, brandishing weapons and swearing profusely, not standing there shooting then begrudgingly drawing weapons (it just doesn't seem in line with the dwarven spirit of things). Folding them into the empire doesn't seem right - unless they are relegated to war machine crew status only as 'specialist' units.
Undead reunification has been covered off fairly well by ET - there is room for rebellion against Nagash. I'm unsure if that room will allow a feasible excuse for two undead armies of the same faction to fight, or for a second fully fledged army to exist. Seems like a fitting place to trim back the armies and reunite them as one undead faction...although they could really get the TK 'rebel' element going as a force of order, that is to say, they wish a return to the status quo, not the overturning of existing world order. GW may take the route of combining TK army into one and offering opposing TK/VC special characters as a means to fluff out your list as a rebel or loyalist.
Orcs and Goblins are such a staple of fantasy, that the fantasy setting without them would seem incomplete. Their chaotic rabble fits the raging barbarian hordes niche so well, and their comical and yet so deadly serious threat is a perfect. Ogres might be rolled into them. Yes I know ogres have a past history of mercenary duties to the Empire...but that was when the empire was stable, whole and wealthy enough to bribe them to fight others. in the post end-times world, the Empire is shattered...so I would suspect Ogres will become far more predatory and opportunistic as their insatiable curse of hunger takes hold. Orcs like to fight, goblins like to steal, Ogres love to eat - a perfect synergy and would give OnG an alternative to trolls for MI units. I can see this working quite naturally.
That just leaves us with Chaos and Skaven.
As per a reunified undead, I can see Chaos being a natural fit for reunification, allowing options for beasts/mortals and daemons to fight in the same army. Perhaps offering a choice of each for infantry, chaff, MI, cav and monsters would be a good way to let people field either a mix or a mono army, and would give Chaos a chance for more varied tactics. Chaos is another solid staple of WH, and won't disappear.
Skaven...depending on how desperate GW is to trim armies, it *could* be argued for them to join Chaos. They are, after all, a Chaos influenced and inspired society, and could fit in amongst the 'beasts' element of chaos. However...I feel Skaven has evolved down a different route to Chaos, to the point of exerting independence from and opposition to Chaos itself. Yes, Chaos may have 'birthed' the Skaven and they have a close affinity to Nurgle especially (why not Tzneetch too, given the Conspiracy of Silence?), but I cannot forsee the Skaven desiring to be pulled back into the ranks of the daemons. Rather, they are an offshoot of them, and would fight against attempts by Chaos to subvert them. Why...I could even imagine Skaven warlocks attempting to enslave daemons to 'feed' off their fel energies!
Well, there you have it. My fairly rough analysis of where I think WHFB is going. I don't know what to make of the rumours regarding a supposedly 'holy army' that has been circulating around - humans from Cathay or Ind? Only time will tell. I've been waiting a long time to rejoin WHFB, and if 9th goes off well enough, this may be the edition that I make the jump back in.
It will all turn out that WHFB is actually set at the very end of the age of strife and the end times are the reunification of terra. Karl Franz is actually the Emperor of Mankind.
I heard GW just could not come up with a design that they feel provided them with a strong IP, so the skaven eat them I mean kill them.
No playable dwarfs in 9th initially but they are mentioned in the human fluff as providing smiths and rune support so they may be hope if GW come up with a design they like.
welshhoppo wrote: It will all turn out that WHFB is actually set at the very end of the age of strife and the end times are the reunification of terra. Karl Franz is actually the Emperor of Mankind.
If a dwarf player is moving, he's a bad dwarf player.
Wrong. Although this was a few editions ago, I was one of the more succesful Dwarf players then, and I played aggressively.
TBH, 8th edition's completely busted ultimate spells magic is the only reason I know of why that stopped being a viable dwarf tactic.
Although I do agree with the Dwarfs having received the short end of the stick as far as rules writing is concerned since basically forever. As an army, they only have 2 of the unit types in the book, as well as being slow and having no offensive magic phase, with their defensive phase being toned down quite a bit over the years as well.
If a dwarf player is moving, he's a bad dwarf player.
Wrong. Although this was a few editions ago, I was one of the more succesful Dwarf players then, and I played aggressively. TBH, 8th edition's completely busted ultimate spells magic is the only reason I know of why that stopped being a viable dwarf tactic.
Although I do agree with the Dwarfs having received the short end of the stick as far as rules writing is concerned since basically forever. As an army, they only have 2 of the unit types in the book, as well as being slow and having no offensive magic phase, with their defensive phase being toned down quite a bit over the years as well.
The balancing of the dwarfs goes as follows:
Movement based lists depend on 6 set pieces which are easily neutralisable.
Combat based lists depend on 6 set pieces which are easily neutralisable.
Gunline based lists work with anything in the books.
The If a dwarf combat list, by some miracle, gets the combats it wants, then it may be able to win, because WS5 with no rerolls is still dicey(Just ask any warriors player), but unless you've been blessed with making a tonne of parries, dwarfs lose most combats.
So, as a recap, dwarf lists are largely shooting based as it's the way that they win.
Mmmm, that's what people said in 6th edition as well, and yet I made it work.
But I agree that Dwarfs are a very poorly designed army. I love their background, their supposed style and their stubborn, unyielding nature, but I keep running up against how uniform the army list is.
But the army literally only has warmachines and infantry. Some of the infantry also shoots.
There is no magic, no cavalry, no chariots, no monsters, monstrous infantry or cavalry, even though there is plenty of room to add all of the above (except maybe magic and cavalry) in the background while keeping them infantry-based.
Personally I think the problem is that everyone else has had a good rummage in the lucky dip of magic, cavalry, chariots, monsters, monstrous infantry, etc. Dwarfs come the closest to that thing that GW gamers usually rave about: army character. Just a pity it does them little good in a game where all others have to get all the same toys.
Bran Dawri wrote: Mmmm, that's what people said in 6th edition as well, and yet I made it work.
But I agree that Dwarfs are a very poorly designed army. I love their background, their supposed style and their stubborn, unyielding nature, but I keep running up against how uniform the army list is.
But the army literally only has warmachines and infantry. Some of the infantry also shoots.
There is no magic, no cavalry, no chariots, no monsters, monstrous infantry or cavalry, even though there is plenty of room to add all of the above (except maybe magic and cavalry) in the background while keeping them infantry-based.
It can work, but it's inferior to every other combat army under the sun.
Dwarf movement is so lackluster, it's practically not worth doing, and moving makes your army much more vulnerable. Hence, a dwarf player that moves is doing it wrong.
It can work, but it's inferior to every other combat army under the sun.
Dwarf movement is so lackluster, it's practically not worth doing, and moving makes your army much more vulnerable. Hence, a dwarf player that moves is doing it wrong.
Beastmen beg to differ. I mean...I can't even think of a list that couldn't beat Beastmen, haha.
In the old edition of fantasy dwarves, halflings and ogres were all available in the empire list.
So there is a precedence for that combinatin.
seems like elves will combine.
Chaos I assume will combine as will undead.
Leaving: skaven, ong and lizardmen. Brets I am sure will get tossed in with empire.
So I think it will be 6 armies:
Humans, dwarves, ogres etc in one
elves
lizardmen
chaos
skaven
undead
My 2 cents which in Canada now rounds down so take it for what its worth!
So I think it will be 6 armies:
Humans, dwarves, ogres etc in one
elves
lizardmen
chaos
skaven
undead
If tis 6 I would go with the following based on the ET books
Humans, Dwarves, Ogres
Elves - all three
Lizardmen
Chaos including Skaven
Undead
Orcs and Goblins - may also have Ogres
May have the ability to mix and match "unbound" as 40k and def will have allies rules. Both of which work fine with the fluff for the most part but likely not as well with balance - but that's not really a major concern of GW's.
It can work, but it's inferior to every other combat army under the sun.
Dwarf movement is so lackluster, it's practically not worth doing, and moving makes your army much more vulnerable. Hence, a dwarf player that moves is doing it wrong.
In 8th edition you may be right. In 6th, you'd be wrong. And in either case, it shouldn't be right. Dwarfs should be an army of hard-as-nails infantry who may move up the board slowly, but who grind anyone foolish enough to engage them head-on beneath their ironshod boots. And I do mean anyone. In the background, Dwarfs are consistently described as the finest infantry in the world, yet their rules have rarely even come close to reflecting this, one of the greatest crimes in my personal Book of Grudges.
The tactical game then becomes to make sure you don't get hit in the flanks (bam! Slayers are useful) and to force the opponent to engage you head-on.
It can work, but it's inferior to every other combat army under the sun.
Dwarf movement is so lackluster, it's practically not worth doing, and moving makes your army much more vulnerable. Hence, a dwarf player that moves is doing it wrong.
Beastmen beg to differ. I mean...I can't even think of a list that couldn't beat Beastmen, haha.
I've tabled a WoC Knight deathstar under the old WoC book(3++ and Stubborn) with 22 Gor.
Sigvatr wrote: It's already known that Dwarfs got their asses kicked by Skaven pretty hardcore. Dwarfs lost the war and the only thing left for debate is whether they will make it into 9th at all or just get gutted.
Maybe, they build a giant cannon to shoot themselves on a moon or something. But that would be ridicu...wait.
The dwarfs MUST survive. They have to. Even if they are folded into another race, that is still surviving.
God help the dwarfs.
I dint mind if dwarfs survive if they loathe majority of their war machines. Which is likely, as the survivors are all slayers.
I think you just solved the question my friend. The Dwarfs will be rolled into the Empire as slayers and thats all thats left.
There are also populations of Dwarves in the Empire - though WFB usually ignores this - so there might be enough left for a "breeding population"...............
Pretty sure dwarves/dwarfs (whichever WHFB uses) will become the Empire air force with their amazing Gyrocopters...
Ok, seriously, I doubt the dwarves will be gone in 9E. Their ranks are gonna be thinned out of course, maybe their infantries will be removed altogether if they are to become part of the Empire + Bretonnia army. Heke, I could see Kislev in there too if GW cared to make Tsarist models. Point is, the dwarven war machines can be easily put in a human + dwarf army, and even the dwarven infantries, apart from slayers, can still be salvaged by making all of them one unit with access to different weapon/armor upgrades. Slayers will have to be a unit on its own. On the other hand, if the rumors about the so-called "army of light" are true, it might be difficult to run a pure dwarf army in 9E
Kanluwen wrote: Hey, remember how the Elves got Merwyrms as a permanent fixture after Storm of Chaos?
Or how Warriors of Chaos got Dark Elves and Repeater Crossbows?
The likelihood of GW radically altering the shape of the game because of the fluff is not necessarily as certain as people keep talking about.
Did anything from Storm of Chaos last beyond that book? - much as I enjoy it.............
Kanluwen wrote: Hey, remember how the Elves got Merwyrms as a permanent fixture after Storm of Chaos?
Or how Warriors of Chaos got Dark Elves and Repeater Crossbows?
The likelihood of GW radically altering the shape of the game because of the fluff is not necessarily as certain as people keep talking about.
Did anything from Storm of Chaos last beyond that book? - much as I enjoy it.............
And the retcon is why GW is hated....sorry gonna rant a bit here. Fantasy used to be my favorite game but with the changes GW has made since the end of 7th ed (daemons FUUK YOU matt ward) till now have completely pushed me out of the game. And now they plan to destroy the absolutely wonderful setting they had in the Old world and create some god-awful monstrosity of space setting so that they can continue to 40K-iefy the game. Ballz on all of them - killed the dwarves, sent the lizardmen (Really one of their unique races) to the stars while completely screwing over the rest of the "Good" races with God-like foes of Archaon and his daemonic cronies, dreadnought skaven and rat god and Nagash - forget it i just have to stop the game is beyond saving now, hopefully KOW will be decent
Papasmurf (I normally say cheers but I am too miffed)
welshhoppo wrote: It will all turn out that WHFB is actually set at the very end of the age of strife and the end times are the reunification of terra. Karl Franz is actually the Emperor of Mankind.
Draigo encountered in the Warp, Skaven calling the Eldar by accident, and now this... The bring-back to the days where Fantasy and 40K was the same is cool, it really is, but...
welshhoppo wrote: It will all turn out that WHFB is actually set at the very end of the age of strife and the end times are the reunification of terra. Karl Franz is actually the Emperor of Mankind.
Draigo encountered in the Warp, Skaven calling the Eldar by accident, and now this... The bring-back to the days where Fantasy and 40K was the same is cool, it really is, but...
Just... Holy balls, man.
That dark sorcerer is Nagash. He uses his necromancy to resurrect the emperor. Which would still be better storytelling than having a MOON shot down and sending an army into space.
I now feel the need to point out that moons affect gravity.
welshhoppo wrote: It will all turn out that WHFB is actually set at the very end of the age of strife and the end times are the reunification of terra. Karl Franz is actually the Emperor of Mankind.
Draigo encountered in the Warp, Skaven calling the Eldar by accident, and now this... The bring-back to the days where Fantasy and 40K was the same is cool, it really is, but...
Just... Holy balls, man.
This is open to interpretation:
The sorceror is Ahriman
The king could be the emperor or the Silent king
The champion is Abbadon
Makes more sense in 40k than interpreting it into fantasy,
welshhoppo wrote: It will all turn out that WHFB is actually set at the very end of the age of strife and the end times are the reunification of terra. Karl Franz is actually the Emperor of Mankind.
Draigo encountered in the Warp, Skaven calling the Eldar by accident, and now this... The bring-back to the days where Fantasy and 40K was the same is cool, it really is, but...
Just... Holy balls, man.
That dark sorcerer is Nagash. He uses his necromancy to resurrect the emperor. Which would still be better storytelling than having a MOON shot down and sending an army into space.
I now feel the need to point out that moons affect gravity.
There's also two moons, and the one moon that got shot was literally made of Chaos Afflicted Warp Stone and vastly smaller then the other.
timetowaste85 wrote: Getting back to the question at hand...all dwarves will be murdered, as it is discovered burnt dwarf hair makes for a potent Skaven-aphrodisiac.
welshhoppo wrote: It will all turn out that WHFB is actually set at the very end of the age of strife and the end times are the reunification of terra. Karl Franz is actually the Emperor of Mankind.
Draigo encountered in the Warp, Skaven calling the Eldar by accident, and now this... The bring-back to the days where Fantasy and 40K was the same is cool, it really is, but...
Just... Holy balls, man.
That dark sorcerer is Nagash. He uses his necromancy to resurrect the emperor. Which would still be better storytelling than having a MOON shot down and sending an army into space.
I now feel the need to point out that moons affect gravity.
There's also two moons, and the one moon that got shot was literally made of Chaos Afflicted Warp Stone and vastly smaller then the other.
It still affects Gravity. Just to the point that tides are altered and the people of the world can jump higher.
welshhoppo wrote: It will all turn out that WHFB is actually set at the very end of the age of strife and the end times are the reunification of terra. Karl Franz is actually the Emperor of Mankind.
Draigo encountered in the Warp, Skaven calling the Eldar by accident, and now this... The bring-back to the days where Fantasy and 40K was the same is cool, it really is, but...
Just... Holy balls, man.
That dark sorcerer is Nagash. He uses his necromancy to resurrect the emperor. Which would still be better storytelling than having a MOON shot down and sending an army into space.
I now feel the need to point out that moons affect gravity.
There's also two moons, and the one moon that got shot was literally made of Chaos Afflicted Warp Stone and vastly smaller then the other.
It still affects Gravity. Just to the point that tides are altered and the people of the world can jump higher.
Actually they wouldn't be able to jump as high or higher depending on where it was. The gravitational pull of the chaos moon would either oppose or compound with the gravitational pull of the planet depending on where it is in relation to the person/thing jumping.
Dwarves are a basic part of the fantasy genre. Not supporting them would alienate many consumers/fans and simply be a bad business decision. But that does not mean GW will not still do it.
With that said, luckily Kings Of War (KoW) is a very smooth game system (its especially good if you are a Dwarf player) and the KoW game totally supports folks using other games models...I know how I'll be using my existing Dwarves and spending my money -- on Kings Of War!
) and the KoW game totally supports folks using other games models..
For now. If KoW pick up a significant market share I expect this to change. Right now they're new and getting people to play is more important than selling models, think of it as an investment.
For now. If KoW pick up a significant market share I expect this to change.
While the situation is all hunky-dory right now, I can't help but agree with this. With KoW's rise in popularity following the WFB upsets of the last couple of editions and the next, and the current fad for 'all-in-one' rules+minis packages, I don't think it's altogether unlikely.
Not to mention, yeah, of course the game allows you to use what minis you like. Most games do. I feel a sudden urge to point a few of them out.
For now. If KoW pick up a significant market share I expect this to change.
While the situation is all hunky-dory right now, I can't help but agree with this. With KoW's rise in popularity following the WFB upsets of the last couple of editions and the next, and the current fad for 'all-in-one' rules+minis packages, I don't think it's altogether unlikely.
Not to mention, yeah, of course the game allows you to use what minis you like. Most games do. I feel a sudden urge to point a few of them out.
The Kings Of War (Mantic) designers/managers are pretty up front about their company being focused on gaming Not shareholders etc. They are very blunt about not even trying to produce models for their Human Empire, because so many other companies offer gamers so many nice options, yet they still go right on writing and supporting their Human Empire as they develop their universe etc. And KoW has been out for almost 5 years now, so the belief that Mantic is eventually going to try to force its supporters to use their models just sounds like cynicism. Although they did announce at their tournaments that only Mantic armies were eligible for their Best Overall award and supposedly they explained the reason for this was that the Best Overall would be photographed etc. And featuring another companies models in photos could get complicated.
With all that said I still love my GW Dwarves and all their shooty fun. But I refuse to let mine sit on a shelf because GW has a hair brained approach to their IP driven vision of WHFB. I've tried playing unsupported/older edition games before and that quickly grows stale, so sticking with 8th ed is not an option IMHO. So IF the rumors are as bad as folks are predicting regarding 9th ed, and Dwarfs end up on the GW cutting room floor, then I encourage all Dwarf lovers out there to please consider joining me in my defection to the /Mantic/Kings Of War universe Cheers.
I just realized, now is the time to complete my dwarven army with all the nice units from "oh no the sky is falling, my dwarfs go extinct" panic sellers and play some Oldhammer with them when 9th Edition hit the shelfs.
i've been playing dwarves on and off for probably the last twenty years, and am currently building a new dwarf army, but i've put purchasing a couple of gyros and a big hammerer unit off until i know what is happening with my beloved dwarves. I honestly think if i can't play a pure dwarf army come 9th i'll walk away from warhammmer.......still i have my 40k army.
I did once convert some of the oiginal dwarf warriors (the ones with the static pose that were all the same) into squats, no idea what happened to them, i am terrible at modelling
EmperorsChampion wrote: All this demise of armies makes me think GW is punishing players for not buying dread fleet...
I can actually visualise them blaming it's failure on the gamers. "You're supposed to buy what we make, whatever we make! Alan Merrett said so!"
Could also explain the world being split into little floating bubbles of earth: GW smarted from the Dreadfleet fiasco so much, it created a scenario where there's no possibility of naval battles ever returning to the fluff or a fantasy game system.
I don't know if it's probably been mentioned already, but I think the decision to kill 95% of the Old World's dwarven population in the End Times book and roll them into the rumored "forces of order" (aka Humans + Dwarves) faction may be GW's natural response to so many companies producing and releasing dwarf models, most of the time better models than GW's own products.
So while it'd be cool to say the Dwarfs are going to get "squatted" it'd be closer to the truth to say they're gonna get "dogofwared"
's sake) and really the Elves. Orcs and Goblins and Ogre Kingdoms have been mostly non-existent (minus Skarsnik's appearance in Thanquol).
All kidding aside, given what i was responding to in my quote, i don't get the context of your statement given what you quoted of mine.
