http://news.yahoo.com/california-university-student-council-passes-bill-ban-flags-044503928.html

California university student council passes bill to ban flags

(Reuters) - The student council of a southern California university passed a bill that would ban the hanging of any national flag in the common area of student government offices, school officials said on Friday.

The measure, passed by six undergraduates on the University of California at Irvine's student legislative council, said that national flags bear a range of cultural significances that could be interpreted negatively by some.

The resolution added that national flags - citing the United States flag in particular - have been "flown in instances of colonialism and imperialism" and "serve as symbols of patriotism or weapons for nationalism."

"Freedom of speech, in a space that aims to be as inclusive as possible can be interpreted as hate speech," the bill said.

The Executive Cabinet of the school's student government will meet on Saturday to discuss vetoing the bill, Associated Students of UCI President Reza Zomorrodian said in a statement.

"I stand firmly against this piece of legislation, though I understand the authors intent and supporters intent, I disagree with the solution the council has come to," Zomorrodian said, adding that the bill was not supported by campus leadership.

The Los Angeles Times reported that if vetoed, the bill would return to the legislative council where it would have to be passed by a two-thirds majority to override the rejection.

A post on the university's Facebook page on Friday made light of the bill reading in part, "Contrary to what you might be hearing, flags are still flying at UC Irvine," alongside a picture of the American flag. Many of the more than 350 comments on the post decried the bill.

(Reporting by Curtis Skinner in San Francisco; Editing by Robert Birsel)

More Political Correctness gone off the deep end.

Seriously? You're gonna claim our flag is so offensive it needs to be censored? Hope the Cabinet vetoes these little twerps idea.

The student council at my school was equally weird. We had this big fancy student union building with loads of rooms that no one ever used for anything. What did the student council (they ran the union) decide to do? Build more rooms...

The Fox News perspective.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/03/06/students-at-uc-irvine-vote-to-ban-american-flag/

Overly dramatic as always, but they're not exactly wrong in this case.

 LordofHats wrote:
The student council at my school was equally weird. We had this big fancy student union building with loads of rooms that no one ever used for anything. What did the student council (they ran the union) decide to do? Build more rooms...

I would honestly be more surprised if they actually weren't crazy. Where I am (U of A), one guy just got bumped from elections for election fraud, after running his entire campaign off sharing his name with a brand of beer, and a guy called "Omni-bot" is in first place.

How exactly is that Fraud? Dumb and unimaginative sure, but its not exactly fraud.

Hey, we also had a bunch of UCs pass resolutions to stop all business relations with any Israel based company, because they have an understanding of middle eastern politics as deeps as... something that's not very deep. They're not the sharpest tools in the proverbial shed.

I guess this now the "stupid things university students do" thread.

Can't think of anything stupid for my university right now. One awesome thing: We're one of the lucky universities having a premier of Game of Thrones season 5!

Well, UC stands for University of California, so it's the same general group. Pretty sure they still burn bras and whenever they go out to protest a war, they just use white out on the sign to update the name.

 DarkLink wrote:
Well, UC stands for University of California, so it's the same general group. Pretty sure they still burn bras and whenever they go out to protest a war, they just use white out on the sign to update the name.

nope, white out is expensive, they just cross it out and make it samller.
yesterday against the tuition hikes, ucsc had a massive protest where students blocked the entrances to campus. Now the sc busses have several routes going threw campus, so what do they do? busses stopped running near campus. I had to walk 4 miles around the picket lines to get a bus. Because of it Too, no food was on campus and all classes closed. So yeah, screw over the students. The best one was where the students sat and obstructed a highway, gotvarrested, and suspended for two weeks before finals. And now they have a felony on record making them I eligible for financial aid.
Remember out uc. We are not as stupid as we seem. It's a small minority the rest hate too.

The measure, passed by six undergraduates on the University of California at Irvine's student legislative council, said that national flags bear a range of cultural significances that could be interpreted negatively by some.

SO. FETHING. WHAT???

You do not have the right to not be offended.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Fox News perspective.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/03/06/students-at-uc-irvine-vote-to-ban-american-flag/

Overly dramatic as always, but they're not exactly wrong in this case.

Let's face it, this was likely passed to ban one specific flag. No, not the American flag, but the flag of Israel.

I don't give a gak what six U. of Cali undergrads have to say.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

The measure, passed by six undergraduates on the University of California at Irvine's student legislative council, said that national flags bear a range of cultural significances that could be interpreted negatively by some.

SO. FETHING. WHAT???

You do not have the right to not be offended.

On political correctness you do.

'I am offended' is a good way to get the police, let alone students, to crack down on something legal in the UK.
It only works if you have a minority status of some kind.

 Grey Templar wrote:
How exactly is that Fraud? Dumb and unimaginative sure, but its not exactly fraud.

My mistake- the fraud was completely unrelated, it's just another example of "Crazy"

Extremely liberal students at the age where they know everything located in a liberal state doing an extremely liberal thing? I am shocked!

Communists plain and simple.

Seems like banning a flag is the exact opposite of being liberal.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Seems like banning a flag is the exact opposite of being liberal.

It is if you do it for liberal reasons!

(Or something like that...)

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Fox News perspective.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/03/06/students-at-uc-irvine-vote-to-ban-american-flag/

Overly dramatic as always, but they're not exactly wrong in this case.

The key quote from that article is

Fox News wrote:“It’s an attack on American values,” he said. “A lot of people want to come to the United States for a reason – it’s because of the freedoms we have.”

You spit out about freedom but You DON'T have the freedom to have a vote on a flag?

I'm hating Fox News more and more and more, honestly, the stereotype of "Overly patriotic, racist, nationalist, f* heads" is all down to Fox News.

I love you Americans though, just so you know.

And I see why this is an issue and it's annoyed people.

Didn't a student union at another California school (UCLA I think) just recently try and prevent a qualified girl from joining their board because she was a Jew?

I remember when My RA said she supported saying what you thought and your freedom of expression. She then said to report hate speech and anything the violates that freedom of exxpression
Hypocrisy is big on UC campuses. But the main students body, even those in humanities. Are just there to get degrees and try to get a living, dont lump us all together.

Sometimes I think that college is just a secret plan to contain teenagers for 4 years while they get the stupid out of their system.

 cincydooley wrote:
Didn't a student union at another California school (UCLA I think) just recently try and prevent a qualified girl from joining their board because she was a Jew?

If its the article I'm thinking of, it was about a question the person got on the entrance exam. Its was basically "As a Jew who is active in the Jewish community, how can you expect to remain unbiased?"

The only student government issues at my alma mater that I can remember are:

1. The request for more funding for a program that employed people to walk lone students home after a certain hour.

2. The bitter fight to prevent the administration from moving away from need-blind admissions, which drew a lot of outside funding.

There's almost certainly some nonsense issues that came up as well, but they weren't significant enough for me to care. Much as this flag "issue" is likely to be for most Irvine students.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
Didn't a student union at another California school (UCLA I think) just recently try and prevent a qualified girl from joining their board because she was a Jew?

If its the article I'm thinking of, it was about a question the person got on the entrance exam. Its was basically "As a Jew who is active in the Jewish community, how can you expect to remain unbiased?"

It followed a discussion of whether or not the University should support corporations which it claims to be complicit in the occupation of the West Bank.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 DarkLink wrote:
Well, UC stands for University of California, so it's the same general group. Pretty sure they still burn bras and whenever they go out to protest a war, they just use white out on the sign to update the name.

nope, white out is expensive, they just cross it out and make it samller.

Good point, and it's probably not green, either. Come to think of it, their bio-degradable signs probably degraded and they'll eventually have to get new ones anyways.

Why not just hang more flags? a university I went to filled the ceiling with different flags and It was both inclusive and added something interesting to the building.

As far as this part:
"Freedom of speech, in a space that aims to be as inclusive as possible can be interpreted as hate speech," the bill said. "

I agree, I've seen it argued many times here that hate speech is protected by the freedom of speech. So if you're going to an inclusive environment banning hate speech seems like a good idea.

While striving for fairness there is nothing wrong with banning "ALL" flags in one area. you'll still see the american flag in front of the school, but in the common room they decided no. I've seen many flags being flown around in cali, the mexican flag is the obvious one, but also african flags, and confederate flags.

It's their school, they're representatives voted, it's democracy in action.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Overly dramatic as always, but they're not exactly wrong in this case.

By "overly dramatic" did you mean "deeply misleading"?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Seems like banning a flag is the exact opposite of being liberal.

The American flag wasn't specifically banned from the area in question.

 dogma wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Seems like banning a flag is the exact opposite of being liberal.

The American flag wasn't specifically banned from the area in question.

No, but it was the target.

That's why we can't have nice things. People with severely lacking experience in life given decision power :(

/e: Just in case, this isn't meant to be a serious post. Just for some special people in here.

 Grey Templar wrote:

No, but it was the target.

That isn't something which is clear, based on the article you posted. Simply because the American flag was specifically mentioned, does not indicate that it was the only flag which was specifically mentioned.

Well to be honest the unversity does have the freedom to ban some and all flags that it wants to. Although it is arguable is that a good idea or not.

 Sienisoturi wrote:
Well to be honest the unversity does have the freedom to ban some and all flags that it wants to. Although it is arguable is that a good idea or not.

This is honesty what upsets me, as a federally funded university, it shouldnt ban anything.

If that's within the student councils power, they have every right to do it. If the majority of the campus dislikes the decision, they can vote those 6 out of office. Such are the privileges of a democratic system.

That being said, I will express my rights and say this: These six individuals are fething stupid, and they could have avoided this entire mess by adding more flags. Fundamentally, the problem seems to be that someone was upset because someone else was getting cookies and they weren't. They (the six), in their infinite wisdom, decided to rectify this lamentable situation by taking away EVERYONE'S cookies. Brilliant.

This exact situation is why my I choose ignore the fact that my uni even has a student council. I go to class, I learn, and then I go home and study. That's it, and I couldn't be bothered to give a single feth as to what a group of overly indulged gakkers decide to do during one of their regular hyper-glorified circle-jerk sessions.

I mean, it's kind of asinine and a waste of brain power, but I don't get the hoopla. I can't really care about a flag.

 daedalus wrote:
I mean, it's kind of asinine and a waste of brain power, but I don't get the hoopla. I can't really care about a flag.

Because, I know these type of people. It isnt about banning all flags, they are using it to ban one flag in particular, maybe a few others. Likely Israeli flags or American flags. Possible being LA confederate flags too.

Do you go to the school?

If so, vote against them.
If not, then it doesn't affect you.

Hurray for democracy.

Well, they are banning all national flags. So what is the problem? Or can't Americans live without seeing an American flag every 5 minutes? It is just a rather silly piece of fabric you know...

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
I mean, it's kind of asinine and a waste of brain power, but I don't get the hoopla. I can't really care about a flag.

Because, I know these type of people. It isnt about banning all flags, they are using it to ban one flag in particular, maybe a few others. Likely Israeli flags or American flags. Possible being LA confederate flags too.

Okay, so? I'm still struggling to see the issue other than "but they're imposing this on everyone just to get to MEEEE!"

 daedalus wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
I mean, it's kind of asinine and a waste of brain power, but I don't get the hoopla. I can't really care about a flag.

Because, I know these type of people. It isnt about banning all flags, they are using it to ban one flag in particular, maybe a few others. Likely Israeli flags or American flags. Possible being LA confederate flags too.

Okay, so? I'm still struggling to see the issue other than "but they're imposing this on everyone just to get to MEEEE!"

Because that's actually a real problem.

I mean, I'm frankly more irritated about the waste of brain power being wasted on this. College shouldn't be about thinking about flags. It should be about thinking about how you're going to afford that next 30 pack of Keystone, when the next party is, and chicks. Oh, and, like, classes and gak.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 daedalus wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
I mean, it's kind of asinine and a waste of brain power, but I don't get the hoopla. I can't really care about a flag.

Because, I know these type of people. It isnt about banning all flags, they are using it to ban one flag in particular, maybe a few others. Likely Israeli flags or American flags. Possible being LA confederate flags too.

Okay, so? I'm still struggling to see the issue other than "but they're imposing this on everyone just to get to MEEEE!"

Because that's actually a real problem.

I still don't get it. If no one is flying flags, why is it a problem?

I mean, the rationalization behind it IS trite, but I don't think that the sanctity of the buildings at the campus will be impacted by the lack of a US flag in it. Is that why? Because it's a stupid rationalization?

 d-usa wrote:
Do you go to the school?

If so, vote against them.
If not, then it doesn't affect you.

Hurray for democracy.

http://www.asuci.uci.edu/legislativebranch/
It seems they are not all elected, with some appointed.

 daedalus wrote:


I still don't get it. If no one is flying flags, why is it a problem?

I mean, the rationalization behind it IS trite, but I don't think that the sanctity of the buildings at the campus will be impacted by the lack of a US flag in it. Is that why? Because it's a stupid rationalization?

Its less about the flags and more about the attitude behind why they banned them.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Do you go to the school?

If so, vote against them.
If not, then it doesn't affect you.

Hurray for democracy.

http://www.asuci.uci.edu/legislativebranch/
It seems they are not all elected, with some appointed.

So if you go to the school still run and vote against this.
If you don't go to the school then it still doesn't affect you.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
I still don't get it. If no one is flying flags, why is it a problem?

I mean, the rationalization behind it IS trite, but I don't think that the sanctity of the buildings at the campus will be impacted by the lack of a US flag in it. Is that why? Because it's a stupid rationalization?

Its less about the flags and more about the attitude behind why they banned them.

Exactly.

Banning flags, whilst not trivial, really doesn't do anything. The world keeps spinning, so to speak. But the "why" is far more important.

As someone that wore a flag on his shoulder for a good part of my life...

I must say I love looking at flags, we had a building on base that was used for family functions, and it had every flag currently in use by nations of the world hanging in it..I use to sit there and listen to stupid crap, and just look at each one and imagine what the various colors and symbols were ment to represent.

More flags are better than less...but college is a place to get the stupid outta your system before real life begins.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Its less about the flags and more about the attitude behind why they banned them.

Okay. I still have a hard time getting upset about it, but I can understand why people would be.

The other part about this is that it sets a precedent for trivially banning things.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Well, they are banning all national flags. So what is the problem? Or can't Americans live without seeing an American flag every 5 minutes? It is just a rather silly piece of fabric you know...

If it's just a silly piece of fabric, why go to the trouble of banning them?

Well my College finally made the news with some stupid party.

http://news.yahoo.com/eight-hurt-roof-collapses-during-college-party-california-222710086.html

We've had a rash of frat parties gone wrong lately.

 namiel wrote:
Communists plain and simple.

Nope. This is UCI. The Intifada lives on there.

California - The land of fruits and nuts.

These kids at UC are great. Exercising their freedom to display stupidity is critical to eventually not being hired for high paying jobs.

Matthew Guevara was named as the student who wrote this resolution which says, in part, that flags "construct paradigms of conformity and set homogenized standards..."

I wonder if Guevara is related to that leftist icon Che. If so, perhaps he'll eventually man up, gun up, then meet a similar fate (thank you SF).



I'm old. One year for 'Political Awareness Week' the university I attended had Abbie Hoffman (before he died) come to campus. He lead a 'rally' in the student union I had to pass on my way (in uniform) to my ROTC class. He was spouting off his typical dried up leftist crap including "You can kick ROTC off your campus".

He got heckled.

Made me chuckle.

These kids at UC are great.

 CptJake wrote:
These kids at UC are great. Exercising their freedom to display stupidity is critical to eventually not being hired for high paying jobs.

Matthew Guevara was named as the student who wrote this resolution which says, in part, that flags "construct paradigms of conformity and set homogenized standards..."

I wonder if Guevara is related to that leftist icon Che. If so, perhaps he'll eventually man up, gun up, then meet a similar fate (thank you SF).



I'm old. One year for 'Political Awareness Week' the university I attended had Abbie Hoffman (before he died) come to campus. He lead a 'rally' in the student union I had to pass on my way (in uniform) to my ROTC class. He was spouting off his typical dried up leftist crap including "You can kick ROTC off your campus".

He got heckled.

Made me chuckle.

These kids at UC are great.

Like i said, my UC has nearly 18000 students, as with most campuses. you see these demonstration they are unlikely to break 100, 200 if you promise food.
There are alot who dont really care.

 CptJake wrote:
I'm old. One year for 'Political Awareness Week' the university I attended had Abbie Hoffman (before he died) come to campus. He lead a 'rally' in the student union I had to pass on my way (in uniform) to my ROTC class. He was spouting off his typical dried up leftist crap including "You can kick ROTC off your campus".

I've never really understood why some of those among the far left would want to kick ROTC off of university campuses. I feel like their priorities are backwards.

It ain't just Liberals. Go check out some Presbyterian Colleges. my sister attended one and left after the first semester because the anti-military sentiment was so intense on campus (from the faculty and administration) she couldn't understand why they let ROTC on the grounds at all. They pretty much used the small number of ROTC students as targets of ridicule.

Freedom of speech equals hate speech. I love it.

Freedom is slavery!

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
These kids at UC are great. Exercising their freedom to display stupidity is critical to eventually not being hired for high paying jobs.

Matthew Guevara was named as the student who wrote this resolution which says, in part, that flags "construct paradigms of conformity and set homogenized standards..."

I wonder if Guevara is related to that leftist icon Che. If so, perhaps he'll eventually man up, gun up, then meet a similar fate (thank you SF).



I'm old. One year for 'Political Awareness Week' the university I attended had Abbie Hoffman (before he died) come to campus. He lead a 'rally' in the student union I had to pass on my way (in uniform) to my ROTC class. He was spouting off his typical dried up leftist crap including "You can kick ROTC off your campus".

He got heckled.

Made me chuckle.

These kids at UC are great.

Like i said, my UC has nearly 18000 students, as with most campuses. you see these demonstration they are unlikely to break 100, 200 if you promise food.
There are alot who dont really care.

Or, unless they hike the tuition rates again. If you think college students get mad about political issues they don't understand, wait till you try and take away their silver spoon...





(to be fair, though, the tuition hikes are absurd. We here in California throw more money at schools than basically anyone else in the world, and they still manage to try and pass their expenses off onto the students).

Indeed. The people saying we don't spend enough on education are absurdly wrong. Its just the education system itself is so incompetent they can't manage their money.

Silver spoon? The students with silver spoons attend Stanford or USC. The unwashed masses* go to the UC or CS schools.

*indeed.

 Hordini wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
I'm old. One year for 'Political Awareness Week' the university I attended had Abbie Hoffman (before he died) come to campus. He lead a 'rally' in the student union I had to pass on my way (in uniform) to my ROTC class. He was spouting off his typical dried up leftist crap including "You can kick ROTC off your campus".

I've never really understood why some of those among the far left would want to kick ROTC off of university campuses. I feel like their priorities are backwards.

Far left? Do you even know what that means? There is no far left in the US. Only moderate centrists. Even your "communist" party is democratic socialist rather than actually communist.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-uci-vote-to-ban-american-flag-others-misguided-20150307-story.html

The oversight committee slapped them down.

Good to hear.

Is there an end to the PC bs?

Or is it just going to get worse?

 Piston Honda wrote:
Is there an end to the PC bs?

Or is it just going to get worse?

It'll end when we're all rounded up and sent off to the camps.

 djones520 wrote:

 Piston Honda wrote:
Is there an end to the PC bs?

Or is it just going to get worse?

It'll end when we're all rounded up and sent off to the camps.

I don't think so, it will just progress o the next stage.

PC don't swear, motyak will end whweh people say it will and society refuses to accept the labels that are automatically attached.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Hordini wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
I'm old. One year for 'Political Awareness Week' the university I attended had Abbie Hoffman (before he died) come to campus. He lead a 'rally' in the student union I had to pass on my way (in uniform) to my ROTC class. He was spouting off his typical dried up leftist crap including "You can kick ROTC off your campus".

I've never really understood why some of those among the far left would want to kick ROTC off of university campuses. I feel like their priorities are backwards.

Far left? Do you even know what that means? There is no far left in the US. Only moderate centrists. Even your "communist" party is democratic socialist rather than actually communist.

Don't talk to me like that. Yes, I know what far left means, and despite what you might think, it does exist in the US. It's not as large, as main-stream, or as accepted as in some European countries, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There's more going on in America than what you see on TV or read on the internet. Just because you're not familiar with it doesn't mean it's not a thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 djones520 wrote:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-uci-vote-to-ban-american-flag-others-misguided-20150307-story.html

The oversight committee slapped them down.

Glad somebody there decided to engage their brain.

 Hordini wrote:

Don't talk to me like that. Yes, I know what far left means, and despite what you might think, it does exist in the US. It's not as large, as main-stream, or as accepted as in some European countries, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There's more going on in America than what you see on TV or read on the internet. Just because you're not familiar with it doesn't mean it's not a thing.

Far left students is a student thing. Its a mixture of three factors, first teenage rebellion bleeding into student years. Second the fact that humans at this age are more radical than reactionary, and third due to peer pressure.

Its common with students everywhere to have a strong left wing contingent, its also a real left wing complete with the up-own-arse factor of the hardcore left. Working class socialists and students are completely different things. the working class are naturally on the left due to survival and outlook, and tend towards a mild left for the most part. they just want a better deal. The radical left wants to reform the elite to include themselves, and not liberal left in any form, though its wrapped up in liberal left dogma. How do we know this, because they are students, by having the opportunity of university they are already in the social minority and privileged. Some will be radical and ethical, but it would account for a minority. The rest are left because it pays to be on the left and there is power to be wielded on the left, even in the US.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
means? There is no far left in the US. Only moderate centrists. Even your "communist" party is democratic socialist rather than actually communist.

Says the 15-year old that's never been to the country.

So glad we have your input!

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Silver spoon? The students with silver spoons attend Stanford or USC. The unwashed masses* go to the UC or CS schools.

*indeed.

No the unwashed masses go to CS schools. UC is for the favored sons, especially Berkeley and UCLA.

What's with having the flag everywhere anyways? And the Oath?

Over here the flag is flown when there's an official flag day, or for birthdays, or deaths (halfway ofc), or welcoming a foreign guest with his and our flag. You're allowed to fly it for any reason as long as you follow the guidelines, but very very few fly it just because "it's our flag". And the Oath, well... I've given exactly one such and that's when I completed basic training on my mandatory military service.

One would think things become meaningless if you do them every day without thinking. Almost as meaningless as student organisations protesting against things just because.

We are a martial state. France and Britain understand.

Brazil is similar, but instead of flags, they use Samba dancers.
SAMBA!

 Frazzled wrote:

Brazil is similar, but instead of flags, they use Samba dancers.
SAMBA!

That I could understand. :-)

 Orlanth wrote:

 Hordini wrote:

Don't talk to me like that. Yes, I know what far left means, and despite what you might think, it does exist in the US. It's not as large, as main-stream, or as accepted as in some European countries, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There's more going on in America than what you see on TV or read on the internet. Just because you're not familiar with it doesn't mean it's not a thing.

Far left students is a student thing. Its a mixture of three factors, first teenage rebellion bleeding into student years. Second the fact that humans at this age are more radical than reactionary, and third due to peer pressure.

Its common with students everywhere to have a strong left wing contingent, its also a real left wing complete with the up-own-arse factor of the hardcore left. Working class socialists and students are completely different things. the working class are naturally on the left due to survival and outlook, and tend towards a mild left for the most part. they just want a better deal. The radical left wants to reform the elite to include themselves, and not liberal left in any form, though its wrapped up in liberal left dogma. How do we know this, because they are students, by having the opportunity of university they are already in the social minority and privileged. Some will be radical and ethical, but it would account for a minority. The rest are left because it pays to be on the left and there is power to be wielded on the left, even in the US.

You forgot a fourth reason: To get attention for themselves, either in order to get laid, or just have people notice what would be an otherwise non description person.

This is a university. In California. Did you expect sanity?

Spetulhu wrote:
What's with having the flag everywhere anyways? And the Oath?

Over here the flag is flown when there's an official flag day, or for birthdays, or deaths (halfway ofc), or welcoming a foreign guest with his and our flag. You're allowed to fly it for any reason as long as you follow the guidelines, but very very few fly it just because "it's our flag". And the Oath, well... I've given exactly one such and that's when I completed basic training on my mandatory military service.

One would think things become meaningless if you do them every day without thinking. Almost as meaningless as student organisations protesting against things just because.

As a foreigner to the US I was happy to see people fly their flags without it being for exclusively sectarian reasons. When I moved here I was very happy to have it as my adopted flag.

The ban is veto'ed.

:shrugs:

My take?

Aahhhhhh.... it's great to be young and insane!

Spetulhu wrote:
What's with having the flag everywhere anyways? And the Oath?

Over here the flag is flown when there's an official flag day, or for birthdays, or deaths (halfway ofc), or welcoming a foreign guest with his and our flag. You're allowed to fly it for any reason as long as you follow the guidelines, but very very few fly it just because "it's our flag". And the Oath, well... I've given exactly one such and that's when I completed basic training on my mandatory military service.

One would think things become meaningless if you do them every day without thinking. Almost as meaningless as student organisations protesting against things just because.

Because it is not a meaningless symbol to a lot of us.

I'll admit, I get a funny feeling in my chest every time Retreat sounds on base, and I'm standing their saluting the flag as it is lowered. It invokes a sense of pride in my nation. It's an actual symbol that I can focus on.

I am proud of our flag, and it does anger me when I see it disrespected.

 djones520 wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:
What's with having the flag everywhere anyways? And the Oath?

Over here the flag is flown when there's an official flag day, or for birthdays, or deaths (halfway ofc), or welcoming a foreign guest with his and our flag. You're allowed to fly it for any reason as long as you follow the guidelines, but very very few fly it just because "it's our flag". And the Oath, well... I've given exactly one such and that's when I completed basic training on my mandatory military service.

One would think things become meaningless if you do them every day without thinking. Almost as meaningless as student organisations protesting against things just because.

Because it is not a meaningless symbol to a lot of us.

I'll admit, I get a funny feeling in my chest every time Retreat sounds on base, and I'm standing their saluting the flag as it is lowered. It invokes a sense of pride in my nation. It's an actual symbol that I can focus on.

I am proud of our flag, and it does anger me when I see it disrespected.

it is really just a piece of cloth, people put way to much into it really.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:
What's with having the flag everywhere anyways? And the Oath?

Over here the flag is flown when there's an official flag day, or for birthdays, or deaths (halfway ofc), or welcoming a foreign guest with his and our flag. You're allowed to fly it for any reason as long as you follow the guidelines, but very very few fly it just because "it's our flag". And the Oath, well... I've given exactly one such and that's when I completed basic training on my mandatory military service.

One would think things become meaningless if you do them every day without thinking. Almost as meaningless as student organisations protesting against things just because.

Because it is not a meaningless symbol to a lot of us.

I'll admit, I get a funny feeling in my chest every time Retreat sounds on base, and I'm standing their saluting the flag as it is lowered. It invokes a sense of pride in my nation. It's an actual symbol that I can focus on.

I am proud of our flag, and it does anger me when I see it disrespected.

it is really just a piece of cloth, people put way to much into it really.

Cool. Go burn one in front of a Marine Corps recruiting office or a Teamsters union hall. I'm sure they'll agree with you 100%.

They don't have to agree, the supreme court has held up several times it is my right to disrespect the flag. And if they get mad, it proves my point. We put way to much focus on the flag and meaningless symbols.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Silver spoon? The students with silver spoons attend Stanford or USC. The unwashed masses* go to the UC or CS schools.

*indeed.

No the unwashed masses go to CS schools. UC is for the favored sons, especially Berkeley and UCLA.

unless you go to Irvine or davis, those are unwashed masses, but in a different way.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
They don't have to agree, the supreme court has held up several times it is my right to disrespect the flag. And if they get mad, it proves my point. We put way to much focus on the flag and meaningless symbols.

There's a lot that could be said about this.

I'm just going to remind myself that you're young, have never been in the military, and are still living within the university bubble.

I will say that I think your assertion that the flag is a meaningless symbol is short sighted and will certainly be insulting to many.

I'll also leave this here:

holy image size batman.

And ah yes, the you are young argument. What old people use to denounce young people when they Know they don't have anargument
And I hate the university. I hate the hypocrisy, the stupidity. It is to the point I take 4 hour bus rides to go home every weekend because it is to much to take.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
They don't have to agree, the supreme court has held up several times it is my right to disrespect the flag. And if they get mad, it proves my point. We put way to much focus on the flag and meaningless symbols.

You can prove your point from a hospital bed. What you think is meaningless, is itself meaningless to what someone else thinks is important. I thought all your PC classes taught you that. Its all about the perception of the offended. (and how many friends they have).

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Silver spoon? The students with silver spoons attend Stanford or USC. The unwashed masses* go to the UC or CS schools.

*indeed.

No the unwashed masses go to CS schools. UC is for the favored sons, especially Berkeley and UCLA.

unless you go to Irvine or davis, those are unwashed masses, but in a different way.

If you think Berkeley and UCLA kids were disadvantaged, you better go to the doc because your brains have leaked out.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:


And ah yes, the you are young argument. What old people use to denounce young people when they Know they don't have anargument

I mean, I hate to break it to you, but it's the truth. You've done very little 'living' on your own. You're still subject to changing your opinions on things based on the whim of whatever latest thing you learn in class. You have very little anecdotal life experience to draw from to form your opinions, which will change as you gain them.

And it's not like I'm "old;" I'm 31. And I can tell you, as I've gained life experience and been a part of multiple work forces, my attitudes toward and understanding of the world have changed SIGNIFICANTLY from when I was a 21 year old fresh out of university.

You can fall back on whatever platitude you'd like; it doesn't change the fact that you're simply ignorant of a lot of things.

It's a product of being young.

I'm making a joke that those schools are fUllman of unwashed hippies

31? pfft come talk to me when you're 131. Until then the wife is going to pinch your cheeks when she sees you (and I'm going to steal your wallet while you're distracted. dog treats aint free you know!)

 cincydooley wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:


And ah yes, the you are young argument. What old people use to denounce young people when they Know they don't have anargument

I mean, I hate to break it to you, but it's the truth. You've done very little 'living' on your own. You're still subject to changing your opinions on things based on the whim of whatever latest thing you learn in class. You have very little anecdotal life experience to draw from to form your opinions, which will change as you gain them.

And it's not like I'm "old;" I'm 31. And I can tell you, as I've gained life experience and been a part of multiple work forces, my attitudes toward and understanding of the world have changed SIGNIFICANTLY from when I was a 21 year old fresh out of university.

You can fall back on whatever platitude you'd like; it doesn't change the fact that you're simply ignorant of a lot of things.

It's a product of being young.

I like how you somehow know my life experiance. I know what I know. And I know that if people are willing to kill over a piece of cloth, especially if it is for a stupid reason, something is wrong.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I'm making a joke that those schools are fUllman of unwashed hippies

i thought that was UC Riverside.

All the girls there drove little convertible VW jettas.

How do you think they afforded them? No water bills to pay.
Aslo, can we fix the imagemail please. Way to big

Believe there is still a ban of hanging of any flags in the barracks of the US Military

 Frazzled wrote:
31? pfft come talk to me when you're 131. Until then the wife is going to pinch your cheeks when she sees you (and I'm going to steal your wallet while you're distracted. dog treats aint free you know!)

Oh, for sure. I'm very aware that my ideas and opinions are going to continue to change, especially now that I'm a parent. It's that whole Socratic thing, right?


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 hotsauceman1 wrote:

I like how you somehow know my life experiance. I know what I know. And I know that if people are willing to kill over a piece of cloth, especially if it is for a stupid reason, something is wrong.

You share quite a bit on here. I'm sure you're not unaware of that. Unless you completely misrepresent yourself on Dakka (and I don't think you do; I think you're an honest dude), the info you share allows us to have a pretty good bead on "hotsauceman the dude."

 cincydooley wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
31? pfft come talk to me when you're 131. Until then the wife is going to pinch your cheeks when she sees you (and I'm going to steal your wallet while you're distracted. dog treats aint free you know!)

Oh, for sure. I'm very aware that my ideas and opinions are going to continue to change, especially now that I'm a parent. It's that whole Socratic thing, right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

I like how you somehow know my life experiance. I know what I know. And I know that if people are willing to kill over a piece of cloth, especially if it is for a stupid reason, something is wrong.

You share quite a bit on here. I'm sure you're not unaware of that. Unless you completely misrepresent yourself on Dakka (and I don't think you do; I think you're an honest dude), the info you share allows us to have a pretty good bead on "hotsauceman the dude."

You're a Dad now? yea Dad's age at the same rate as dogs until the kids hit 18.

And wait, Hostauceman is the Dude? Someone get me a White Russian and pronto.

 Frazzled wrote:


You're a Dad now? yea Dad's age at the same rate as dogs until the kids hit 18.

Hah! Yeah. She's 6 months old as of this weekend. The time is flying. Already feel like I don't have enough in the 529 (even though I know I certainly won't, ever. Hah!)

And wait, Hostauceman is the Dude? Someone get me a White Russian and pronto.

I can certainly oblige a Caucasian right about now.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
They don't have to agree, the supreme court has held up several times it is my right to disrespect the flag. And if they get mad, it proves my point. We put way to much focus on the flag and meaningless symbols.

How much meaning a symbol has is not a universal thing. You may think it's meaningless, but it obviously isn't to other people.

I remember my friend said that if you are a parent, you learn to love kids music and that it is the greatest.
But no, I'm no liberal. I'm a libertarian
I believe to money I make is mine alone and no one especially else's unless they give me a service (the got gives me plenty of services)
I also believe that everyone has a right to live their life free from harassment or persecution from the govt and other instituitions.
But I also support the right for a company to uphold it's values and ban anyone they don't like or agree with, same with churches.
I also hate Rap.
Let me ask you, did you know all that about me?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I remember my friend said that if you are a parent, you learn to love kids music and that it is the greatest.
But no, I'm no liberal. I'm a libertarian
I believe to money I make is mine alone and no one especially else's unless they give me a service (the got gives me plenty of services)
I also believe that everyone has a right to live their life free from harassment or persecution from the govt and other instituitions.
But I also support the right for a company to uphold it's values and ban anyone they don't like or agree with, same with churches.
I also hate Rap.
Let me ask you, did you know all that about me?

Yes, you've made much of that clear over the course of the past two years we've all gotten to "know" you.

I'd also contend your political leanings have also changed quite a bit in the past year or so. You were very much an SJW when you started up here.

Because I got tired of that. And because it got me nowhere fast.
I'm also getting a gun and cc permit soon too, did you know that.

Didn't know about the rap part.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Because I got tired of that. And because it got me nowhere fast.
I'm also getting a gun and cc permit soon too, did you know that.

Er...I don't think you can get a CC in Cali.

You should visit the gun thread if yhou're seriously interested, but i'll ask the question I ask everyone. Why do you want a gun?

Yep, heavy metal and Electronica for life.
and a bit of George thorogood

 Frazzled wrote:
Er...I don't think you can get a CC in Cali.

You should visit the gun thread if yhou're seriously interested, but i'll ask the question I ask everyone. Why do you want a gun?

Yeah, if you're in Cali good luck. Especially if you are still living in university accommodation.

 Frazzled wrote:
Didn't know about the rap part.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Because I got tired of that. And because it got me nowhere fast.
I'm also getting a gun and cc permit soon too, did you know that.

Er...I don't think you can get a CC in Cali.

You should visit the gun thread if yhou're seriously interested, but i'll ask the question I ask everyone. Why do you want a gun?

I thought they changed that. But I'm not considering it for a bit. Living on campus I can't have one. But to answer your question, protection.

Yep go to the other thread for that discussion.

Concerning the UCI topic, don't really care. Thinking back on student centers I can only remember the bars, and then what they served.

 Frazzled wrote:
Yep go to the other thread for that discussion.

Concerning the UCI topic, don't really care. Thinking back on student centers I can only remember the bars, and then what they served.

I thought College Station was dry?

 Frazzled wrote:
Yep go to the other thread for that discussion.

Concerning the UCI topic, don't really care. Thinking back on student centers I can only remember the bars, and then what they served.

.....what student centers has bars?

 kronk wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Yep go to the other thread for that discussion.

Concerning the UCI topic, don't really care. Thinking back on student centers I can only remember the bars, and then what they served.

I thought College Station was dry?

I didn't go there (the Boy however tells me it is quite wet).

I was thinking you were A&M. My bad.

 kronk wrote:
I was thinking you were A&M. My bad.

My Boy is. 3rd year. All A's. Math and Comp majors with minor of physics.

I can count to 16 if I take my shoes off.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Because I got tired of that. And because it got me nowhere fast.

You see that you're making my point, yes?

I'm also getting a gun and cc permit soon too, did you know that.

Hopefully you'll actually shoot one a few times before you purchase it. And do the proper research.

I'll applaud your for exercising your right, but I'll also encourage you to be properly educated and trained with the firearm.

I find I do my best shooting with my eyes closed.

 Orlanth wrote:
The rest are left because it pays to be on the left and there is power to be wielded on the left, even in the US.

What is the left, to your mind?

Relapse wrote:

You forgot a fourth reason: To get attention for themselves, either in order to get laid, or just have people notice what would be an otherwise non description person.

You mean self-interest?

the funny thing is, that this is only a national flag ban...

so if people started hanging confederation flags, thats still allowed.


such over PC gobbledeegook

 easysauce wrote:
the funny thing is, that this is only a national flag ban...

so if people started hanging confederation flags, thats still allowed.


such over PC gobbledeegook

Interestingly, I wonder if that would also, then, include Nazi regime flags....

Or even old Soviet flags?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 djones520 wrote:

Spetulhu wrote:
What's with having the flag everywhere anyways? And the Oath?

Over here the flag is flown when there's an official flag day, or for birthdays, or deaths (halfway ofc), or welcoming a foreign guest with his and our flag. You're allowed to fly it for any reason as long as you follow the guidelines, but very very few fly it just because "it's our flag". And the Oath, well... I've given exactly one such and that's when I completed basic training on my mandatory military service.

One would think things become meaningless if you do them every day without thinking. Almost as meaningless as student organisations protesting against things just because.

Because it is not a meaningless symbol to a lot of us.

I'll admit, I get a funny feeling in my chest every time Retreat sounds on base, and I'm standing their saluting the flag as it is lowered. It invokes a sense of pride in my nation. It's an actual symbol that I can focus on.

I am proud of our flag, and it does anger me when I see it disrespected.

it is really just a piece of cloth, people put way to much into it really.

Did you read anything I just said?

It is not just a piece of cloth. It is a symbol. A symbol for something that I have devoted my life towards. Who are you to tell me that it is meaningless?

To me it is. I put stock in what America has done and what it will continue to do. Not something that waves in the wind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 cincydooley wrote:

 easysauce wrote:
the funny thing is, that this is only a national flag ban...

so if people started hanging confederation flags, thats still allowed.


such over PC gobbledeegook

Interestingly, I wonder if that would also, then, include Nazi regime flags....

Or even old Soviet flags?

While I ant speak for irvine. Here flags are flown, but there is a ban on symbols that incite hatred, so the former would apply.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

 kronk wrote:
I was thinking you were A&M. My bad.

My Boy is. 3rd year. All A's. Math and Comp majors with minor of physics.

I can count to 16 if I take my shoes off.

you mentioned he was at davis?
math and minoring is all the more impressive in a quarter system.
My mother can't stop bragging how I'm at a uc. She said when I was in elementary school, no one thought I would make it pass high school

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Because I got tired of that. And because it got me nowhere fast.
I'm also getting a gun and cc permit soon too, did you know that.

 cincydooley wrote:
Hopefully you'll actually shoot one a few times before you purchase it. And do the proper research.

I'll applaud your for exercising your right, but I'll also encourage you to be properly educated and trained with the firearm.

Just to echo this sentiment; read and get very familiar with the Four Rules in advance. Go to a reputable range, fire a variety of pistols (Single action/Double action, revolver, striker fired, etc.) in a variety of calibers, and find the one that works best for you performance wise and comfort wise.

If the instructor at the range tells you something then listen. Most have been around firearms for a very long time, and many are ex-military or LEO. They are a goldmine of knowledge if you want to listen.

 dogma wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
The rest are left because it pays to be on the left and there is power to be wielded on the left, even in the US.

What is the left, to your mind?

Relapse wrote:

You forgot a fourth reason: To get attention for themselves, either in order to get laid, or just have people notice what would be an otherwise non description person.

You mean self-interest?

Nicely put.

djones520 wrote:

It is not just a piece of cloth. It is a symbol. A symbol for something that I have devoted my life towards. Who are you to tell me that it is meaningless?

hotsauceman1 wrote:To me it is. I put stock in what America has done and what it will continue to do. Not something that waves in the wind.

But, for djones, myself and others like us, the American Flag is a symbol of what America has done and what it will continue to do (both good and bad)


The thing about symbols is that they are quite subjective in many ways. Sure there's the objective "Symbol X represents Y" such as the Union Jack representing the United Kingdom, or a red maple leaf on a while field surrounded by 2 red bars represents canada.

But, even innocuous symbols can spark hatred in people, given the right circumstances




All of those symbols that I posted in the spoiler tag represent "something" whether they represent hate or not is entirely up to the person seeing it. For most of us, seeing a Man U. logo doesn't do gak, other than to say "hey, there's a [fan, the stadium, etc] of Man. U." But for people who hold allegiance to whoever Man U's arch-rival is, that image is probably going to get them going in a negative way. The same thing for the Springbok.... Remember, when Mandela got the country united, he fought to keep the Springbok logo (there was a compromise made in adding the Proteus flower to the logo) because for the blacks of SA, it was a symbol of the racist and oppressive Apartheid system.

 DarkLink wrote:
Hey, we also had a bunch of UCs pass resolutions to stop all business relations with any Israel based company, because they have an understanding of middle eastern politics as deeps as... something that's not very deep. They're not the sharpest tools in the proverbial shed.

Was this the same school that told a girl because she was Jewish she was to biased to be a part of the student council?

Edit: nope it was UCLA.
http://www.mtv.com/news/2098265/ucla-reject-jewish-student-council-beyda/

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

djones520 wrote:

It is not just a piece of cloth. It is a symbol. A symbol for something that I have devoted my life towards. Who are you to tell me that it is meaningless?

hotsauceman1 wrote:To me it is. I put stock in what America has done and what it will continue to do. Not something that waves in the wind.

But, for djones, myself and others like us, the American Flag is a symbol of what America has done and what it will continue to do (both good and bad)

My main problem with the flag (okay, not exactly the flag but attitudes regarding the flag) is that I have often seen the symbol placed at a higher level then whatever it is supposed to represent. And when the symbol is more important that whatever it symbolizes, then it becomes a problem.

The major example in that regards when it comes to the flag are the attempts to ban the burning of the flag or any other related flag laws. If people want to display a torn up flag without lighting it up, they should be able to. If people want to draw a swastika on the flag and fly it they should be able to. If people want to take a giant crap on the flag and then burn it, they should be able to. If people want to make flag tampons they should be able to. People should be able to do whatever they want with our flag. That doesn't mean that I don't think that whatever they are doing is extremely disrespectful, and it absolutely doesn't mean that you or djones can't get extremely pissed off when people do those things. It just means that people should be free to do those things.

The flag has zero authority. The flag doesn't write law. The flag is not part of our government. The only function of the flag is to be a symbol of all those things. It is a symbol of our country, it is a symbol for our laws, it is a symbol for our freedoms and accomplishments. It is also a symbol of our struggles, a symbol of "american imperialism", a symbol of racial bias, or whatever else anyone wants to see it as a symbol for. But the flag is not a source of law and it is not a source of our freedoms.

One such freedoms is our freedom of speech, which includes the freedom to burn the flag or desecrate it any other way that anyone wants to desecrate it. Our flag is great because it is a symbol of that freedom. But when you restrict any of the freedoms that the flag symbolizes in order to protect the symbol itself, then it becomes a meaningless piece of cloth. When you pass laws placing the symbol of the freedom above the actual freedoms it symbolizes, then both become meaningless.

I'm not accusing you or djones of any of this, it's just one of those things that I feel strongly about when it comes to the flag and the things it symbolizes to me. It might also be fairly off-topic in this thread by now, so sorry if it is.

You're absolutely right on all of that D-USA.

Bit of a double edged sword for me really, being the man who defends the right for people to do what they want to the flag, but also hating it with every fiber of my being.

In the end though, it is what it is. All I can really find myself justifiably saying is, show the Flag respect, if for nothing other then to respect my feelings, beliefs, whatever.

 djones520 wrote:

Bit of a double edged sword for me really, being the man who defends the right for people to do what they want to the flag, but also hating it with every fiber of my being.

And trust me, I'm perfectly okay with you hating it and thinking that it is disrespectful. I would never argue that you shouldn't feel that way.

I try to follow the flag code out of respect for the flag and what is symbolizes. I might no longer pledge allegiance (I do the hand on the heart thing when it happens, and I might substitute "constitution" for "flag" if I do decide to say it), but I still follow the flag code in my personal life out of respect for the flag and what it symbolizes. The flag is neatly folded up when it is not flying, replaced if it is torn, taken down when it gets dark. When I was part of the fire department we were allowed to decorate our helmets and I put both a German and a US flag on my helmet, but before I did I made sure that I found two stickers that were the same size and made sure that I followed the guidelines for how you would hang the flag from a wall if you are displaying it with another nationality. I always participate in the annual flag retirement ceremony that my department did with the local VFW where we retired a TON of flags via burning (took us a couple hours usually) and it was always an honor to do the ceremony with the old vets that came out.

Ironic thing is that there are tons of folks outside the US or that are not citizens of the US, that are more patriotic about the US, and would probably jump at the chance of doing something patriotic for the US (including joining the military), if it meant being able to be a citizen of the US.

There are a lot of things wrong about the US today, but until a person has been elsewhere, they usually don't know how good we have it and how hard it's been to get here.

On the other side, a person also often won't know how bad we have it in some areas until they have been elsewhere.

Is it really right to keep plastering the faces of the student body all around facebook?

ATXMILEY wrote:
Is it really right to keep plastering the faces of the student body all around facebook?

They wanted the attention right?

ATXMILEY wrote:
Is it really right to keep plastering the faces of the student body all around facebook?

Why do you think it would be an issue?

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

ATXMILEY wrote:
Is it really right to keep plastering the faces of the student body all around facebook?

Why do you think it would be an issue?

Heaven forbid I agree with Dreadclaw, but I'm pretty sure plastering things all over itself is what Face Book is for, so if there is an issue... Stop using Face Book? XD

ATXMILEY wrote:
Is it really right to keep plastering the faces of the student body all around facebook?

Nope. Now, if said pictures were being posted along with home addresses, phone numbers, etc... then that would Showing me the face of some dumb kids, in a nation with 350 some odd million people in it, isn't going to do anything.

Speaking of flags:

https://gma.yahoo.com/veteran-wraps-baby-american-flag-photo-sparks-controversy-175203890--abc-news-topstories.html

Good grief...

baby Captain America needs his shield.

 d-usa wrote:
Speaking of flags:

https://gma.yahoo.com/veteran-wraps-baby-american-flag-photo-sparks-controversy-175203890--abc-news-topstories.html

Good grief...

Not the first time those nasty vets have been caught using a flag like a blanket.

Now if that baby was wearing the flag as a diaper, then there would have been something to get worked up about.

I might not be a flag waving patriot, and I might roll my eyes at some over the top patriotism, but that picture was desecration of the flag? I'm more concerned about the flag plates covered in ketchup and mustard ending in the trashcan after the 4th of July picnic than that baby.

 CptJake wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Speaking of flags:

https://gma.yahoo.com/veteran-wraps-baby-american-flag-photo-sparks-controversy-175203890--abc-news-topstories.html

Good grief...

Not the first time those nasty vets have been caught using a flag like a blanket.

Spoiler:

Repeatedly

This just proves my point. That people put way t much stock in the flag, that when a tiny little infraction like this goes down, people get pissed.
I mean, I love the flag and when I do use it i treat it with respect. But pretending it has some higher symbolism or something is wrong.
I mean, somewhere at my home is a picture of me in boxxing glove standing infront of an american flag.....that I need to find and brun because the picture is s embarassing.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
But pretending it has some higher symbolism or something is wrong.

You do know it isn't just pretending, right?

Listen next time you're at an event when they play the anthem. The flag does have a higher symbolism, whether you like it or not.

How folks react to that may be your issue, but 'pretending' that higher symbolism does not exist is pretty damned asinine.

That is why it is used the way it is in the pictures Jihadin and I posted.

That is why we have the US Flag Code on how to handle the flag.

The symbolism is indeed there.

Ok, but why does a baby In the flag rile people up. It more than symbolism. It worship. It's like how Muslims react when Mohammad is shown or Christians when the cross is disrespected. Just less violent.

When, recently, have Christians gotten violent when a cross has been disrespected that wasn't also extreme fringe?

I resent the comparison with how Muslims react to depictions of Mohammad.

Why bring religion into this?

 CptJake wrote:

That is why we have the US Flag Code on how to handle the flag.

Which as a law is unconstitutional if it were enforced, to be fair.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jihadin wrote:
Why bring religion into this?

It is a good example of how symbolism can affect people.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:

I resent the comparison with how Muslims react to depictions of Mohammad.

You might resent it. But burn a flag in front of the right crowd and you will get a reaction that is pretty similar to burning a Koran in front of the right crowd.

There is nothing wrong with symbolism, but it is easy to transfer your devotion from the things being symbolized to the actual symbol. And that is something that everybody would be wise to remember.

I wasn't referring to the flag, I was referring to the cross comment.

You'd have to look pretty hard to find many people who'd react violently to a cross or bible burning.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I wasn't referring to the flag, I was referring to the cross comment.

You'd have to look pretty hard to find many people who'd react violently to a cross or bible burning.

I live in Oklahoma, I'm sure I could find a few .

But you are right on that front.

If you're in Okieville you might find a few who have burned crosses...

(same here of course unfortunately)