Sgt_Smudge wrote: Serious question: How is Roboute Guilliman a silly Primarch name? And not including variations of his name done in rather poor taste?
If you pronounce it properly, it comes out as "Row-byoot G-willy-man"
How is that not silly?
Also Rowboat Girlyman. 'Cause we all know that's his real name.
It could be that it looks a little sketchy to pronounce when you first look at it it. I chose Rogal Dorn, since to me Rogal just does not sound good ending with Dorn.
Hardest poll ever.
Angron is a contender.
Rowbutt Guillimens is annoying to remember and to pronounce, but not silly.
Ferrus Manus and Corvus Corax are just awful puns. It's like having one of the Primarchs being called Homo Sapiens.
Konrad Curze is one author pun, but slightly disguised.
But Lionel Johnson has always been the absolute worst.
The thing with Ferrus Manus is, it wouldn't be too bad if it was just that. But when it's the Iron Hand, with metal hands, leading the Iron Hands, many of which have metal hands... It's very silly.
Surprised there aren't more votes for Sanguinius. His name has it's roots in the latin word Sanguineous or "of blood."
It's like "hey this guy's gonna be our Vampy master for the blood angels, and his chapter is gonna be all about blood. Lets name him something bloody, like 'blood guy'." What's that in latin? Oh, ....you don't say. Yeah, totally, use that.
Don't get me wrong, love the iconography, imagery, mixing of the angelic motif with blood gorging rage monsters idea in that whole use of opposite ideas, but really, that name. "Of Blood" You think his adopted parents thought that sounded good? Gimmie a break man.
Phyrekzhogos wrote: Surprised there aren't more votes for Sanguinius. His name has it's roots in the latin word Sanguineous or "of blood."
It's like "hey this guy's gonna be our Vampy master for the blood angels, and his chapter is gonna be all about blood. Lets name him something bloody, like 'blood guy'." What's that in latin? Oh, ....you don't say. Yeah, totally, use that.
Don't get me wrong, love the iconography, imagery, mixing of the angelic motif with blood gorging rage monsters idea in that whole use of opposite ideas, but really, that name. "Of Blood" You think his adopted parents thought that sounded good? Gimmie a break man.
But it's no more silly than Ferrus Manus or Corvus Corax, and actually sounds okay.
In context, Sanguinius was adopted by the People of the Pure Blood, or simply "The Blood" for short. Naming him Sanguinius emphasizes that they consider him a member of the tribe even though he's adopted. It also helps that he's competing with Mortarion, Corvus Corax, and Ferrus Manus.
ChazSexington wrote: Being named after Lionel Johnson, a late 19th century poet, Lion El'Jonson has the silliest name.
Konrad Curze, from Heart of Darkness/Apocalypse Now, Angron, and Ferrus Manus, are also pretty silly.
I don't find Roboute's name silly - I've always thought it would be pronounced as if it were French.
How's Konrad Curze or Lion El'Johnson silly? Konrad Curze is an English-fied Polish name with letters changed and Lionel Johnson is a real life and ordinary name. Various forms include Leon, Leo, Levan, Leone, etc. It's Greek/French. Johnson meanwhile literally means Son of John, harkening to either John the Baptist or John the Apostle.
It's really gotta be Ferrus Manus since his name is same as his Legion. Iron Hands, Primarch of the Iron Hands.
Corvus Corax is probably the second worst, only squeaking (squawking?) in behind because it's not quite the exact match.
I rather enjoy the subtlety of Lionel Johnson, because let's be realistic, without the Internet constantly telling people the joke, most people wouldn't have any idea who Lionel Johnson was or that he wrote a poem called Dark Angel. Likewise the likelihood of Roboute Guilliman being a reference to Robert Gillman Jackson, a master of, you guessed it, logistics and nation development, with the UN in the 50s, 60s, and 70s is quite clever.
Konrad Curze being Kurttz from Josef Conrad's Heart of Darkness is a little more obvious since that novella is part of the English canon, but still. It's not Iron Hands of the Iron Hands.
Veteran Sergeant wrote: I rather enjoy the subtlety of Lionel Johnson, because let's be realistic, without the Internet constantly telling people the joke, most people wouldn't have any idea who Lionel Johnson was or that he wrote a poem called Dark Angel. Likewise the likelihood of Roboute Guilliman being a reference to Robert Gillman Jackson, a master of, you guessed it, logistics and nation development, with the UN in the 50s, 60s, and 70s is quite clever.
[Emphasis mine]
I actually had no idea that that Guilliman's name was a reference to somebody the same way that some of the other primarchs are. My mind is blown. Seriously, some ears are bleeding here.
To be on topic- Ferrus and Corax take the cake. Ferrus's name is literally "Iron Hand", and we all know who's Legion is his even without that. The fact that he actually has "iron hands" and so does most of his legion just makes it over the top to the point of being slightly dumb, rather than awesome.
And then Corvus Corax is just the proper name for a common raven. Real clever GeeDubs.
Gashrog wrote: Lion'El Johnson because it was changed to make it so recognizable that nobody could miss it, originally he was named Lyyn Elgonsen.
....But it's still not silly at all. Leon Johnson would not make anyone bat an eye. Nor would Lionel Johnson. The only thing weird bout Lion El'Johnson is the El' part, but all it means is serving the same purpose as Von in German, De in French, Of in English, etc. A more direct version of the name in modern-day English would be Leon of Johnson or Lionel of Johnson, or for a more direct translation of his name's meaning in 40k, Leon Deforest.
All of which mean "Lion of the Forest" more or less in modern English and French. I mean seriously, you could totally run into a person named Leon Deforest and it would not be unique enough to even bat an eye at.
I don't have any problem with Ferrus Manus since he actually had metal hands, it isn't much different from say.. Emperor Frederick Barbarossa (Fredereck Redbeard). That his sons choose to both mimic him with bionic hand replacement and adopt the same descriptive name is a bit creepy but well within accepted parameters of human behavior, and it does actually work as name, after all did they not do his bidding as if they were his own hands?
Wyzilla wrote: Pretty sure Guilliman is an IRL French town or something, so not that ridiculous at all.
I'd nominate Ferrus Manus.Who the hell names their son Iron Hands?
dunno about a town, but both Robute and Gulliman are IIRC french names. there's nothing unusal about it. in fact he's proably got the most useal name of the primarchs
Ferrus Manus and Corvus Corax are the worst for reasons mentioned above. Ferrus Manus is ever so slightly worse as he has "iron" hands and led a legion known as the Iron hands. With Corax, you just had the raven leading the raven guard... Regardless, they are by far the most lazy names.
As for whoever said something along the lines of what kind of parent names their child Perturabo... Clearly the kind of parent who decides that this kid is going to be ignored and ostracized by the rest of the family. (jokes aside, Perturabo is either tied for first favorite Primarch or is my second favorite Primarch)
From a fluff perspective, these names remind me of the man who named one son Winner and the other Loser, a miserable and arguably sadistic experiment. Just impresses upon me that the Emperor was an donkey-cave or too stubborn to bother asking around for some good names.
Hell, a version of Jackson "Jax" Briggs would have been a better choice for Ferrus Manus and maybe some combination of Tecumseh and Edgar Allan Poe for Corvus Corax...
And I agree, Alpharius and Omegon could have used better names, or found a way to be more subtle.
Just impresses upon me that the Emperor was an donkey-cave or too stubborn to bother asking around for some good names.
in fairness the emperor didn't name the primarchs. I mean what was he gonna do immediatly tell the primarch upon meeting him "yeah your name sucks, I'm renaming you"? that'd be a donkey-cave move even for the emperor
Gashrog wrote: Lion'El Johnson because it was changed to make it so recognizable that nobody could miss it, originally he was named Lyyn Elgonsen.
....But it's still not silly at all. Leon Johnson would not make anyone bat an eye. Nor would Lionel Johnson. The only thing weird bout Lion El'Johnson is the El' part, but all it means is serving the same purpose as Von in German, De in French, Of in English, etc. A more direct version of the name in modern-day English would be Leon of Johnson or Lionel of Johnson, or for a more direct translation of his name's meaning in 40k, Leon Deforest.
All of which mean "Lion of the Forest" more or less in modern English and French. I mean seriously, you could totally run into a person named Leon Deforest and it would not be unique enough to even bat an eye at.
Gashrog wrote: Lion'El Johnson because it was changed to make it so recognizable that nobody could miss it, originally he was named Lyyn Elgonsen.
....But it's still not silly at all. Leon Johnson would not make anyone bat an eye. Nor would Lionel Johnson. The only thing weird bout Lion El'Johnson is the El' part, but all it means is serving the same purpose as Von in German, De in French, Of in English, etc. A more direct version of the name in modern-day English would be Leon of Johnson or Lionel of Johnson, or for a more direct translation of his name's meaning in 40k, Leon Deforest.
All of which mean "Lion of the Forest" more or less in modern English and French. I mean seriously, you could totally run into a person named Leon Deforest and it would not be unique enough to even bat an eye at.
Gashrog wrote: Lion'El Johnson because it was changed to make it so recognizable that nobody could miss it, originally he was named Lyyn Elgonsen.
....But it's still not silly at all. Leon Johnson would not make anyone bat an eye. Nor would Lionel Johnson. The only thing weird bout Lion El'Johnson is the El' part, but all it means is serving the same purpose as Von in German, De in French, Of in English, etc. A more direct version of the name in modern-day English would be Leon of Johnson or Lionel of Johnson, or for a more direct translation of his name's meaning in 40k, Leon Deforest.
All of which mean "Lion of the Forest" more or less in modern English and French. I mean seriously, you could totally run into a person named Leon Deforest and it would not be unique enough to even bat an eye at.
Gashrog wrote: Lion'El Johnson because it was changed to make it so recognizable that nobody could miss it, originally he was named Lyyn Elgonsen.
....But it's still not silly at all. Leon Johnson would not make anyone bat an eye. Nor would Lionel Johnson. The only thing weird bout Lion El'Johnson is the El' part, but all it means is serving the same purpose as Von in German, De in French, Of in English, etc. A more direct version of the name in modern-day English would be Leon of Johnson or Lionel of Johnson, or for a more direct translation of his name's meaning in 40k, Leon Deforest.
All of which mean "Lion of the Forest" more or less in modern English and French. I mean seriously, you could totally run into a person named Leon Deforest and it would not be unique enough to even bat an eye at.
That doesn't make it silly though. In fact as Primarchs go, naming him after a poet who wrote a poem called 'the dark angel' is downright subtle.
He lived a solitary life in London, struggling with alcoholism and his repressed homosexuality.
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeell
All other Primarchs (well, except Corax) were named after something cool. Lion 'elJohnson was named after a depressed closet homosexual poet. That is not very cool. It is also silly that they did not change his name. He is literally just named Lionel Johnson. Had they gone with Lyyn Elgonsen, it would have been better.
Also it carries unfortunate implications for his legion. What is the real secret of the Dark Angels?
Spoiler:
"Oh, Brother Asmodai! Yes, spank me! I've been heretical!" "Feel the Emperor's judgement, Azrael!" "Oooh, yes! Purge me! Purge me!"
Spoiler:
And to make it worse, 'The Rock' used to be a gay club in Nottingham
However, whether it is as silly as Primarch Iron Hands who has iron hands of the Iron Hands who also have iron hands is up for debate.
Gashrog wrote: Lion'El Johnson because it was changed to make it so recognizable that nobody could miss it, originally he was named Lyyn Elgonsen.
....But it's still not silly at all. Leon Johnson would not make anyone bat an eye. Nor would Lionel Johnson. The only thing weird bout Lion El'Johnson is the El' part, but all it means is serving the same purpose as Von in German, De in French, Of in English, etc. A more direct version of the name in modern-day English would be Leon of Johnson or Lionel of Johnson, or for a more direct translation of his name's meaning in 40k, Leon Deforest.
All of which mean "Lion of the Forest" more or less in modern English and French. I mean seriously, you could totally run into a person named Leon Deforest and it would not be unique enough to even bat an eye at.
I'm still not seeing why that makes them silly, unless you're making some immature gay joke.
Right, there's nothing wrong with being gay (at all), but a primarch named after a gay poet, whose current resting place is named after a gay club in Nottingham, is pretty silly. It's the equivalent of Boab Bylan, the primarch currently on the planet Woodstock.
I'm still not seeing why that makes them silly, unless you're making some immature gay joke.
Right, there's nothing wrong with being gay (at all), but a primarch named after a gay poet, whose current resting place is named after a gay club in Nottingham, is pretty silly. It's the equivalent of Boab Bylan, the primarch currently on the planet Woodstock.
I don't agree at all, especially when compared to Angron the angry Primach, Corvus Corax or Ferrus Manus.
In the more recent BLHH audio books they pronounce Roboute Guilliman as "Ro-Butt-Ayy Gill-Iman" and I think it sounds just fine, in my head it was always "Rob-Yowt Gwill-ee-man", but the new, official(?) pronunciation is wonderful I think.
Back on topic, I voted Corvus Corax, it's just a bit dull.
Also, don't some Primarchs have longer names now? Horus Lupercal, Lorgar Aurelian, I love their surnames.
I'm still not seeing why that makes them silly, unless you're making some immature gay joke.
Right, there's nothing wrong with being gay (at all), but a primarch named after a gay poet, whose current resting place is named after a gay club in Nottingham, is pretty silly. It's the equivalent of Boab Bylan, the primarch currently on the planet Woodstock.
I don't agree at all, especially when compared to Angron the angry Primach, Corvus Corax or Ferrus Manus.
Which is fair enough, but I don't agree. But picking between Lion and Ferrus was difficult.
I'm still not seeing why that makes them silly, unless you're making some immature gay joke.
Right, there's nothing wrong with being gay (at all), but a primarch named after a gay poet, whose current resting place is named after a gay club in Nottingham, is pretty silly. It's the equivalent of Boab Bylan, the primarch currently on the planet Woodstock.
I don't agree at all, especially when compared to Angron the angry Primach, Corvus Corax or Ferrus Manus.
Which is fair enough, but I don't agree. But picking between Lion and Ferrus was difficult.
The only names that arn't silly are Magnus, Horus, Lorgar, Leman Russ.
Leman Russ because its a badass name with connotations of wildness and ferocity while having no obvious connection to his theme (Like Lion, Kurze, or Alpharius)
Magnus is somewhat silly because its the Latin word for Great (size) and huge, but for one unversed in Latin it commands authority.
Lorgar because its a unique name with a dark sound to it.
And Horus, not only badass, was also a very important God in Ancient Egypt, I believe.
Gashrog wrote: Lion'El Johnson because it was changed to make it so recognizable that nobody could miss it, originally he was named Lyyn Elgonsen.
....But it's still not silly at all. Leon Johnson would not make anyone bat an eye. Nor would Lionel Johnson. The only thing weird bout Lion El'Johnson is the El' part, but all it means is serving the same purpose as Von in German, De in French, Of in English, etc. A more direct version of the name in modern-day English would be Leon of Johnson or Lionel of Johnson, or for a more direct translation of his name's meaning in 40k, Leon Deforest.
All of which mean "Lion of the Forest" more or less in modern English and French. I mean seriously, you could totally run into a person named Leon Deforest and it would not be unique enough to even bat an eye at.
I occasionally remember this name out of the blue and giggle to myself, regardless of where I am at the time. It's been weeks since I first heard somebody say it and I can't not laugh.
Lion El'Jonson- Lionel Johnson (Writer of the poem that gave the Dark Angels their name)
Magnus- One letter of "Magus"
Angron- Angry
Mortarion- Death
Corax- Raven
Alpharius- Alpha
Sanguinius- Blood
Konrad Curze- Joseph Conrad+Curze (The writer and villain of "Heart of Darkness"). Also, this was adapted into the war movie "Apocalypse Now", where a rogue commander called Kurtz is assassinated by Martin Sheen. Kind of like when a rogue commander called Curze was assassinated by M'Shen
However, the one that takes the cake for me is Ferrus Manus. A man named Iron Hands, who has Iron Hands and leads a legion called the Iron Hands
Sir Samuel Buca wrote: In the more recent BLHH audio books they pronounce Roboute Guilliman as "Ro-Butt-Ayy Gill-Iman" and I think it sounds just fine, in my head it was always "Rob-Yowt Gwill-ee-man", but the new, official(?) pronunciation is wonderful I think.
Back on topic, I voted Corvus Corax, it's just a bit dull. Also, don't some Primarchs have longer names now? Horus Lupercal, Lorgar Aurelian, I love their surnames.
I just can't pronounce Roboute out loud in any way except 'rawbutt'. Sometimes a Russian accent sucks Also, I don't know about Lorgar, but Lupercal was a nickname given to Horus by his troops iirc.
Hi Tech Minis has a primarch model that's called PROTURBO. He's supposed to be the Iron Warriors leader obviously but now my brother and I just refer to him as Proturbo cause its hilarious
Deadshot wrote: The only names that arn't silly are Magnus, Horus, Lorgar, Leman Russ.
Leman Russ because its a badass name with connotations of wildness and ferocity while having no obvious connection to his theme (Like Lion, Kurze, or Alpharius)
Magnus is somewhat silly because its the Latin word for Great (size) and huge, but for one unversed in Latin it commands authority.
Lorgar because its a unique name with a dark sound to it.
And Horus, not only badass, was also a very important God in Ancient Egypt, I believe.
Vulkan was a Roman god of fire and smithing and was known as Hephaestus to the Greeks. You were also right about Horus being an important God of Ancient Egypt.
Deadshot wrote: And Horus, not only badass, was also a very important God in Ancient Egypt, I believe.
Who overthrew his Grandfather (Ra) for the title of pharaoh... although he had help from his mother Isis (she pretty much masterminded the whole plot).
Deadshot wrote: And Horus, not only badass, was also a very important God in Ancient Egypt, I believe.
Who overthrew his Grandfather (Ra) for the title of pharaoh... although he had help from his mother Isis (she pretty much masterminded the whole plot).
This is in a way similar to Warmaster Horus, who tried overthrowing his father, though the Horus Heresy is more based after God/Lucifer rather than Ancient Egypt mythology.
Deadshot wrote: And Horus, not only badass, was also a very important God in Ancient Egypt, I believe.
Who overthrew his Grandfather (Ra) for the title of pharaoh... although he had help from his mother Isis (she pretty much masterminded the whole plot).
This is in a way similar to Warmaster Horus, who tried overthrowing his father, though the Horus Heresy is more based after God/Lucifer rather than Ancient Egypt mythology.
I think it's more a way of showing that 40K isn't stolen from one thing, but inspired by many. Horus the primarch is a blend of both stories (and others to a lesser extent).
Jes Goodwin had an interview in White Dwarf in the long long ago where he explained that the Ultramarines weren't Roman, they were just lots of Classical era cultures put together, and the Spwolves weren't "vikings", but a blent of many Nordic and Celtic, etc.
40K has always been heavily derivative, blending just enough of everything so that there is always a faction that will appeal to someone. Hence its widespread and lasting appeal. No matter what you like from history or pop culture, there's probably a 40K faction for that.
So this is Primarch Vikings of the Vikings Legion?
Clever.
But that's a Space Wolf recurring theme, They are the Viking Wolves led by a Viking Wolf riding Wolves and wielding Wolf blades and wolfy wolfy vikingy wolf.
Bro culture Chapter represent!
So this is Primarch Vikings of the Vikings Legion?
Clever.
But that's a Space Wolf recurring theme, They are the Viking Wolves led by a Viking Wolf riding Wolves and wielding Wolf blades and wolfy wolfy vikingy wolf.
Bro culture Chapter represent!
That's 40k though, there's a lot less of that in the Heresy stuff. They don't even call themselves Space Wolves, they're the Vylka Fenryka.
So this is Primarch Vikings of the Vikings Legion?
Clever.
But that's a Space Wolf recurring theme, They are the Viking Wolves led by a Viking Wolf riding Wolves and wielding Wolf blades and wolfy wolfy vikingy wolf.
Bro culture Chapter represent!
That's 40k though, there's a lot less of that in the Heresy stuff. They don't even call themselves Space Wolves, they're the Vylka Fenryka.
I just meant the overuse of Wolf, but ok. Valkyries of Fenris is cool. It also isn't Viking. So it's not Primarch Viking of the Viking legion, so it's already not as bad as Iron Hand who leads the Iron Hands with Metal hands and most of them also have metal hands...
Veteran Sergeant wrote: I rather enjoy the subtlety of Lionel Johnson, because let's be realistic, without the Internet constantly telling people the joke, most people wouldn't have any idea who Lionel Johnson was or that he wrote a poem called Dark Angel. Likewise the likelihood of Roboute Guilliman being a reference to Robert Gillman Jackson, a master of, you guessed it, logistics and nation development, with the UN in the 50s, 60s, and 70s is quite clever.
[Emphasis mine]
I actually had no idea that that Guilliman's name was a reference to somebody the same way that some of the other primarchs are. My mind is blown. Seriously, some ears are bleeding here.
I actually wonder if there's another aspect to this. The two chemists who invented a synthetic version of the ultramarine pigment were Jean Baptiste Guimet and Christian Gmelin. If you smash their surnames together...
Veteran Sergeant wrote: I rather enjoy the subtlety of Lionel Johnson, because let's be realistic, without the Internet constantly telling people the joke, most people wouldn't have any idea who Lionel Johnson was or that he wrote a poem called Dark Angel. Likewise the likelihood of Roboute Guilliman being a reference to Robert Gillman Jackson, a master of, you guessed it, logistics and nation development, with the UN in the 50s, 60s, and 70s is quite clever.
[Emphasis mine]
I actually had no idea that that Guilliman's name was a reference to somebody the same way that some of the other primarchs are. My mind is blown. Seriously, some ears are bleeding here.
I actually wonder if there's another aspect to this. The two chemists who invented a synthetic version of the ultramarine pigment were Jean Baptiste Guimet and Christian Gmelin. If you smash their surnames together...
The more I learn about 40k, the more ill-thought every other universe seems in comparison.
Deadshot wrote: The only names that arn't silly are Magnus, Horus, Lorgar, Leman Russ.
Leman Russ because its a badass name with connotations of wildness and ferocity while having no obvious connection to his theme (Like Lion, Kurze, or Alpharius)
Magnus is somewhat silly because its the Latin word for Great (size) and huge, but for one unversed in Latin it commands authority.
Lorgar because its a unique name with a dark sound to it.
And Horus, not only badass, was also a very important God in Ancient Egypt, I believe.
Vulkan was a Roman god of fire and smithing and was known as Hephaestus to the Greeks. You were also right about Horus being an important God of Ancient Egypt.
I do appreciate it and its not quite as silly as Ferrus Manus of the Ferrum Mani (Iron Hand of the Iron Hands), but the overuse of the fire theme is almost as bad as the overuse of wolf or blood. Vulkan, where the word Volcano comes from, has more connotations of fire than Hephaestus, which would be my preference.
Most of the Chapters have some social or historical significance in that they represent a particular culture. Khan is the best example - having a very clearly Mongolian name and being father to the chapter that almost exactly mirrors the Mongols of 4th Century.
Not all the name are that obvious, but they all either come from (or could be derived from) real world cultures and civilizations.
Roboute is just too easy to make fun of... come on "Raw Butt Girly Man"... it's so true!! Plus his legion has basically ruined the 40k setting
Runners up are Angron (sounds like the just wanted his name to be 'Angry' but didn't want to sound stupid - guess it didn't work out).
and Alpharius Omegon (Not only is the Alpha - Omega thing SUPER tried at this point, but it's also a massive hole in the lore since there being "two" Primarchs for one legion just made things muddy).
Leman Russ is okay, since it at least sounds Nordic - but I think a name like Fenris would probably have suited the Primarch better. At the very least it's more original... I still don't like the wolves though.
Sanguinius was a fine name, but I don't like it because it's ties to "blood" and the subsequent ties of "blood" to "vampire". I think I speak collectively for the whole of western civilization when I say that if I never hear the word "Vampire" again it will be too soon. Can that fad please be over now?
Robo ute gulli man.
Guy with pronounciation i'd have to research... nope, silly, will make fun it. Also shoving a book of theories into somebodies face as the only solution is a dickmove.
Leman Russ is okay, since it at least sounds Nordic
Russ on the other hand is very nordic (it is derived from the Old Norse word roðr, meaning oar). It was the name of a Scandinavian tribe that had quite a lot of contact with the Byzantines and peoples in the Baltic area. The Space Wolves also have their own Varangian Guard, so it is clear GW's writers took inspiration from them.
Most of the Chapters have some social or historical significance in that they represent a particular culture. Khan is the best example - having a very clearly Mongolian name and being father to the chapter that almost exactly mirrors the Mongols of 4th Century.
Not all the name are that obvious, but they all either come from (or could be derived from) real world cultures and civilizations.
Roboute is just too easy to make fun of... come on "Raw Butt Girly Man"... it's so true!! Plus his legion has basically ruined the 40k setting
Runners up are Angron (sounds like the just wanted his name to be 'Angry' but didn't want to sound stupid - guess it didn't work out).
and Alpharius Omegon (Not only is the Alpha - Omega thing SUPER tried at this point, but it's also a massive hole in the lore since there being "two" Primarchs for one legion just made things muddy).
Leman Russ is okay, since it at least sounds Nordic - but I think a name like Fenris would probably have suited the Primarch better. At the very least it's more original... I still don't like the wolves though.
Sanguinius was a fine name, but I don't like it because it's ties to "blood" and the subsequent ties of "blood" to "vampire". I think I speak collectively for the whole of western civilization when I say that if I never hear the word "Vampire" again it will be too soon. Can that fad please be over now?
The fact people make fun of Guillimans name is a fault of the people more than the name. It's French, and vaguely difficult to pronounce so people default to mockery.
Russ on the other hand is very nordic (it is derived from the Old Norse word roðr, meaning oar). It was the name of a Scandinavian tribe that had quite a lot of contact with the Byzantines and peoples in the Baltic area. The Space Wolves also have their own Varangian Guard, so it is clear GW's writers took inspiration from them.
It's a Nordic word not a Nordic name, I am aware of the Russ of Roslagen and the Kievan Russ.
Deadshot wrote: And Horus, not only badass, was also a very important God in Ancient Egypt, I believe.
Who overthrew his Grandfather (Ra) for the title of pharaoh... although he had help from his mother Isis (she pretty much masterminded the whole plot).
This is in a way similar to Warmaster Horus, who tried overthrowing his father, though the Horus Heresy is more based after God/Lucifer rather than Ancient Egypt mythology.
And God/Lucifer and pretty much everything in the bible had been taken from Egyption and many other mythologies, hense the similarities of themes and events.
To be fair I think GW made a decent job, making it that obvious where the names originated intentionally. I mean John Smith of the Emperors Children decapitating his old friend Petyr Dimitrov of the Iron Hands During the Ahmad heresy sounds a little bit gak.
Plus it's happened throughout the history of tales (be they fiction or non fiction in your own opinion - not starting an argument), the most famous historical figure/character is named messiah messiah (ancient hebrew/ancient greek) for pitys sake, and over 2 billion of the worlds population seem pretty accepting of that. At least Ferrus Manus is two different words, even if when translated from an ancient language give an obvious meaning. Not trying to get at a religious tale here, just pointing out that much more obvious references have been accepted as names in stories (true or false) without people finding the name ridiculous.
What would you all name the 20 primarchs whilst still trying to reference the character of some of their legions? I can make a confident bet that what you (not at anyone in particular) find a good name, there would be at least some others who find it daft.
Don't get me wrong - it's a nice thread and interesting to see peoples opinions, but calling GW's original writers lazy for it without any return suggestions is imo, a touch... lazy.
Sanguinius was a fine name, but I don't like it because it's ties to "blood" and the subsequent ties of "blood" to "vampire". I think I speak collectively for the whole of western civilization when I say that if I never hear the word "Vampire" again it will be too soon. Can that fad please be over now?
I thought that fad actually was over and we had all moved on to zombies?
This fething annoys me so much. I know that, back when it was used, it was a not-very-sly wink to the poet who wrote the Dark Angel about lashings of gayness lololol and no-one ever expected to ahve to take it seriously, but it's so hamfisted and jars with me a lot.
Roboute reads as Robert in my head and that lacks gravitas, but I can cope with that.
Ferrus Manus is just stupid and lazy.
But Lion El'Johnson is the one that boils my piss.
ImAGeek wrote: The thing with Ferrus Manus is, it wouldn't be too bad if it was just that. But when it's the Iron Hand, with metal hands, leading the Iron Hands, many of which have metal hands... It's very silly.
While I agree that it is all very silly, I disagree strongly that it wouldn't be so bad otherwise. Corvus Corax is every bit as silly with regards to the "hidden" meaning, but for me it's still a much better sounding name. Corax actually sounds kinda cool.
Ferrus Manus by contrast sounds like one of the joke names from Life of Brian, like Bigus Dickus. So on top of being silly, it's also just a rubbish name.
Most of the Chapters have some social or historical significance in that they represent a particular culture. Khan is the best example - having a very clearly Mongolian name and being father to the chapter that almost exactly mirrors the Mongols of 4th Century.
Not all the name are that obvious, but they all either come from (or could be derived from) real world cultures and civilizations.
Roboute is just too easy to make fun of... come on "Raw Butt Girly Man"... it's so true!! Plus his legion has basically ruined the 40k setting
Runners up are Angron (sounds like the just wanted his name to be 'Angry' but didn't want to sound stupid - guess it didn't work out).
and Alpharius Omegon (Not only is the Alpha - Omega thing SUPER tried at this point, but it's also a massive hole in the lore since there being "two" Primarchs for one legion just made things muddy).
Leman Russ is okay, since it at least sounds Nordic - but I think a name like Fenris would probably have suited the Primarch better. At the very least it's more original... I still don't like the wolves though.
Sanguinius was a fine name, but I don't like it because it's ties to "blood" and the subsequent ties of "blood" to "vampire". I think I speak collectively for the whole of western civilization when I say that if I never hear the word "Vampire" again it will be too soon. Can that fad please be over now?
The fact people make fun of Guillimans name is a fault of the people more than the name. It's French, and vaguely difficult to pronounce so people default to mockery.
And how did the Ultramarines ruin 40k..?
My first instinct when replying to this was just to write "I was being dramatic..." But then I realized that it really isn't that over-the-top of a position.
I think there are two factors that can really sway people about it - how long you've played the game, and what it is that you like about it?
I want to say right off the bat that there are no wrong answers here - a new player isn't entitled to anything more or less than a veteran player - and being a hobby means that you can enjoy it however you like.
But - they do still have an impact.
For me personally, I've played the game for a long time, and what I love most about it is the setting. I can roll dice at little miniatures in a pretty wide selection of tabletop wargames. 40k got my attention because of it's setting - it's style. The word "grimdark" is getting to be silly now. You only hear it from super-fans that sleep every night on top of a mountain of fanfic. But it's a good word that used to accurately describe the setting. It was grim - it was dark...
In 1st Edition the most heavily showcased minis (on the cover of the rulebook, in the art inside, and in the WD publications) were the Blood Angels. At the time there was none of the BS vampire crap about them, just that they were "the good guys". In 2nd ed little bits of 3rd - the iconography really shifted and the Dark Angels really got a lot of time in the sun (not literally). There was a lot of showcasing of Imperial Fists as well.
It wasn't until 3rd and 4th edition that the Ultras started taking over. They pretty much bulldozed over the other guys and started being the "featured" army in the rulebooks, the artwork, the publications, etc. Over time, this has actually altered the perception of Space Marines... no, when you think SM you probably think of that big blue mofo on the cover of the current codex. What SUCKS about this is that the Ultramarines are Ultra-boring. There is nothing grim or dark about them. Jokes about them being "every marine" have run their course - and the "Call of Duty 40k" jokes are less and less funny every time I hear/read them because they are really just the truth now.
And I suppose that this all still really isn't such a terrible thing - after all, the game is about choice right? I mean, if you don't like the grim dark stuff you can choose to play the blue man legion, and if you like the gothic stuff, you can always play the Dark Angels or whatever.
But wait... years and years of re-written codices by authors that apply a heavy handed bias towards the Ultramarines have reduced the other legions or footnotes!.
It sounds dramatic - and I suppose it is a little. It's game after all. But I don't think it's unfair to credit the Ultramarines with having a large role in the diminished "grimdark" in the setting. Which has been the strongest appeal for many.
I clearly have my own bias against them, and I think they are moving the "fluff" in a direction that I have less and less interest in - but even if I liked their legion, their Primarch still has a damn silly name!
Most of the Chapters have some social or historical significance in that they represent a particular culture. Khan is the best example - having a very clearly Mongolian name and being father to the chapter that almost exactly mirrors the Mongols of 4th Century.
Not all the name are that obvious, but they all either come from (or could be derived from) real world cultures and civilizations.
Roboute is just too easy to make fun of... come on "Raw Butt Girly Man"... it's so true!! Plus his legion has basically ruined the 40k setting
Runners up are Angron (sounds like the just wanted his name to be 'Angry' but didn't want to sound stupid - guess it didn't work out).
and Alpharius Omegon (Not only is the Alpha - Omega thing SUPER tried at this point, but it's also a massive hole in the lore since there being "two" Primarchs for one legion just made things muddy).
Leman Russ is okay, since it at least sounds Nordic - but I think a name like Fenris would probably have suited the Primarch better. At the very least it's more original... I still don't like the wolves though.
Sanguinius was a fine name, but I don't like it because it's ties to "blood" and the subsequent ties of "blood" to "vampire". I think I speak collectively for the whole of western civilization when I say that if I never hear the word "Vampire" again it will be too soon. Can that fad please be over now?
The fact people make fun of Guillimans name is a fault of the people more than the name. It's French, and vaguely difficult to pronounce so people default to mockery.
And how did the Ultramarines ruin 40k..?
My first instinct when replying to this was just to write "I was being dramatic..." But then I realized that it really isn't that over-the-top of a position.
I think there are two factors that can really sway people about it - how long you've played the game, and what it is that you like about it?
I want to say right off the bat that there are no wrong answers here - a new player isn't entitled to anything more or less than a veteran player - and being a hobby means that you can enjoy it however you like.
But - they do still have an impact.
For me personally, I've played the game for a long time, and what I love most about it is the setting. I can roll dice at little miniatures in a pretty wide selection of tabletop wargames. 40k got my attention because of it's setting - it's style. The word "grimdark" is getting to be silly now. You only hear it from super-fans that sleep every night on top of a mountain of fanfic. But it's a good word that used to accurately describe the setting. It was grim - it was dark...
In 1st Edition the most heavily showcased minis (on the cover of the rulebook, in the art inside, and in the WD publications) were the Blood Angels. At the time there was none of the BS vampire crap about them, just that they were "the good guys". In 2nd ed little bits of 3rd - the iconography really shifted and the Dark Angels really got a lot of time in the sun (not literally). There was a lot of showcasing of Imperial Fists as well.
It wasn't until 3rd and 4th edition that the Ultras started taking over. They pretty much bulldozed over the other guys and started being the "featured" army in the rulebooks, the artwork, the publications, etc. Over time, this has actually altered the perception of Space Marines... no, when you think SM you probably think of that big blue mofo on the cover of the current codex. What SUCKS about this is that the Ultramarines are Ultra-boring. There is nothing grim or dark about them. Jokes about them being "every marine" have run their course - and the "Call of Duty 40k" jokes are less and less funny every time I hear/read them because they are really just the truth now.
And I suppose that this all still really isn't such a terrible thing - after all, the game is about choice right? I mean, if you don't like the grim dark stuff you can choose to play the blue man legion, and if you like the gothic stuff, you can always play the Dark Angels or whatever.
But wait... years and years of re-written codices by authors that apply a heavy handed bias towards the Ultramarines have reduced the other legions or footnotes!.
It sounds dramatic - and I suppose it is a little. It's game after all. But I don't think it's unfair to credit the Ultramarines with having a large role in the diminished "grimdark" in the setting. Which has been the strongest appeal for many.
I clearly have my own bias against them, and I think they are moving the "fluff" in a direction that I have less and less interest in - but even if I liked their legion, their Primarch still has a damn silly name!
So, the writers ruined 40k then. I thought you meant in the fluff, the UM ruined everything.
This is in a way similar to Warmaster Horus, who tried overthrowing his father, though the Horus Heresy is more based after God/Lucifer rather than Ancient Egypt mythology.
It's probably that God/Lucifer are based on Ancient Egypt and Persian mythology.
This fething annoys me so much. I know that, back when it was used, it was a not-very-sly wink to the poet who wrote the Dark Angel about lashings of gayness lololol and no-one ever expected to ahve to take it seriously, but it's so hamfisted and jars with me a lot.
There is no evidence that Lionel Johnson was homosexual (repressed or otherwise).
Personally I'm fine with all the Primarch names. Though I guess, if I had to choose, it would probably be Ferrus Manus that I find silliest.
Poly Ranger wrote: To be fair I think GW made a decent job, making it that obvious where the names originated intentionally. I mean John Smith of the Emperors Children decapitating his old friend Petyr Dimitrov of the Iron Hands During the Ahmad heresy sounds a little bit gak.
Pfft. You say that, but the Horace Heresy would be a sweet story.
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En Excelsis wrote:My first instinct when replying to this was just to write "I was being dramatic..."
Should have stopped there. What followed this was even more over-dramatic.
As much as I think the guy is awesome I'm gonna have to say Lion El'Jonson. Which language is it where Lion = Lion and Johnson = Forrest? That is pretty ridiculous.
Obviously El' could suffice for "of the" but Johnson means Forrest? Is that some sort of a dick joke involving wood?
I would have voted Angron, but I recently found out that was the name of an actual gladiator (thanks to Spartacus) so it was semi-redeemed in my eyes.
Seriously though - Lion'El Johnson? I think it's the Johnson that just makes him sound like "some dude". But all the primarch names are a little silly and heavy handed xD
Like many others i like a good dig at 'row-boat girlie-man' but despite my like of the dark angels 'Lion' as a first name must have sounded properly stupid on the knightly order planet of caliban
And his surname? oh, please. exactly how are you supposed to pronounce El'jonson? is the " EL' " bit suppposed to be a suggested sound like when yorkshiremen say "t'pub" instead of "the pub" or is " 'jonson " indicitive of plural ownership by 'El' ? it should have been hyphonated.
most stupid name by a big margin - embarresing background, hippy first name, grammatically incorrect surname and sounds like youre about to say 'Lionel Richie'
Gashrog wrote: Lion'El Johnson because it was changed to make it so recognizable that nobody could miss it, originally he was named Lyyn Elgonsen.
....But it's still not silly at all. Leon Johnson would not make anyone bat an eye. Nor would Lionel Johnson. The only thing weird bout Lion El'Johnson is the El' part, but all it means is serving the same purpose as Von in German, De in French, Of in English, etc. A more direct version of the name in modern-day English would be Leon of Johnson or Lionel of Johnson, or for a more direct translation of his name's meaning in 40k, Leon Deforest.
All of which mean "Lion of the Forest" more or less in modern English and French. I mean seriously, you could totally run into a person named Leon Deforest and it would not be unique enough to even bat an eye at.
Agreed. Roboute Guilliman also isn't silly though. I sounds like a real name. Foreign to me, but real. Magnus the Red is a viking name. There are so many sillier than those too, but I guess it's subjective
Sanguinius was a fine name, but I don't like it because it's ties to "blood" and the subsequent ties of "blood" to "vampire". I think I speak collectively for the whole of western civilization when I say that if I never hear the word "Vampire" again it will be too soon. Can that fad please be over now?
I thought that fad actually was over and we had all moved on to zombies?
Ferrus Manus' name makes me cringe every time I see it. It's one of the most blatant examples of Dog Latin in the entire 40k universe. I'm not entirely sure what the proper Latin grammar would be, but I know "ferrum" is the base form of "iron" and that it would have to be conjugated to be descriptive of the "manus". I believe that would be "manus ferri" or something similar. "Ferrus Manus" translates to something like "the iron the hand".
Also, why would people whine about Sanguinius' name having ties to vampires? There are canon BA models with POINTED FANGS. It's their motif, for crying out loud. I'm also surprised at how many votes Lion El'Jonson got, though I suppose that could be fanboy bias on my part. Having studied linguistics, it's a pretty reasonable corruption/evolution of Leon Johnson/Leon DeForest/Leon DuBois or what have you. I also get pretty sick of hearing about Lionel Johnson's homosexuality in relation to the setting. Not because the idea offends me, but because it has nothing to do with its role in inspiring the chapter background. People only choose to snipe about that part because they childishly find gay stuff funny; the poem is probably about his sexuality and alcoholism in equal measure, and you don't hear the latter brought up very much, at least not in this context. Regardless of what inspired the real-life author, if you actually read the work, it goes well with the I Legion's theme of haunting irredeemable guilt.
Brennonjw wrote: Perturabo, becuase I can never pronounce his name right for some reason.
Oh man, Iron Warriors are my favorite hands down but I cannot get that name... I like to just call him "Turbo Peter". Uses mostly the same letters... and is easier to remember.
jakejackjake wrote: Agreed. Roboute Guilliman also isn't silly though. I sounds like a real name. Foreign to me, but real.
Real names can sound silly. Years ago I remember a local politician running for state senate, his name was Dick Swett. I actually don't even think Guilliman's name sounds silly but, just sayin'.
jakejackjake wrote: Agreed. Roboute Guilliman also isn't silly though. I sounds like a real name. Foreign to me, but real.
Real names can sound silly. Years ago I remember a local politician running for state senate, his name was Dick Swett. I actually don't even think Guilliman's name sounds silly but, just sayin'.
Yes but your example does not sound like a real name and he is an idiot for going by "Dick" instead of Rich
Instead of trying to tell everyone that their opinion is wrong if they disagree, I'll simply state that Lion El'Jonson is the worst for me. Though I find nearly all of the primarch names to be uninspired this one takes the cake. Being a mixed up normal name just makes it sound wrong, and since I know it is a reference to Lionel Jonson that's what I see whenever I look at it. I don't care what sort of life the poet led, or the titles of his writings, the name is just too mundane to befit a primarch. Why the creators couldn't be more creative and come up with some unique, or at least more inspired, names is beyond me. I put more effort into naming the characters in my army than I believe the early writers spent in their work.
Owain wrote: Ferrus Manus' name makes me cringe every time I see it. It's one of the most blatant examples of Dog Latin in the entire 40k universe. I'm not entirely sure what the proper Latin grammar would be, but I know "ferrum" is the base form of "iron" and that it would have to be conjugated to be descriptive of the "manus". I believe that would be "manus ferri" or something similar. "Ferrus Manus" translates to something like "the iron the hand".
Also, why would people whine about Sanguinius' name having ties to vampires? There are canon BA models with POINTED FANGS. It's their motif, for crying out loud. I'm also surprised at how many votes Lion El'Jonson got, though I suppose that could be fanboy bias on my part. Having studied linguistics, it's a pretty reasonable corruption/evolution of Leon Johnson/Leon DeForest/Leon DuBois or what have you. I also get pretty sick of hearing about Lionel Johnson's homosexuality in relation to the setting. Not because the idea offends me, but because it has nothing to do with its role in inspiring the chapter background. People only choose to snipe about that part because they childishly find gay stuff funny; the poem is probably about his sexuality and alcoholism in equal measure, and you don't hear the latter brought up very much, at least not in this context. Regardless of what inspired the real-life author, if you actually read the work, it goes well with the I Legion's theme of haunting irredeemable guilt.
What the hell? Only 25 votes for Perturbo the grumpy Primarch. I mean I have Robute Guilliman at second and well Primarch Iron Hands leading the legion Iron Hands is basically so bad its good-territory. But comeon, Perturbo which closest word is pertubalent should win this.
Khonsu wrote: My favorite Legion are the Iron Warriors, But come on.... Perturabo? Really?
It might be an Aleister Crowley reference, of all things. I stumbled upon this today by chance:
Crowley was initiated into the Outer Order of the Golden Dawn on 18 November 1898 by the group's leader, Samuel Liddell MacGregor Mathers. The ceremony took place at the Isis-Urania Temple in London's Mark Masons Hall, where Crowley accepted his motto and magical name of "Frater Perdurabo", a Latin term meaning "Brother I shall endure to the end"...
Ferrus Mannus, and Lion El'Johnson? Those are arguable just on the grounds of spelling and possibly associations. But counter that with cool background in terms of the meaning and fluff as well.
I am super disappoint that Rowboat Girlyman is not winning this poll in a landslide.
Just saying that name out loud, makes me feel like correcting myself as saying "rudebutt gilly-man"
aw_man wrote: Ferrus Mannus, and Lion El'Johnson? Those are arguable just on the grounds of spelling and possibly associations. But counter that with cool background in terms of the meaning and fluff as well.
I am super disappoint that Rowboat Girlyman is not winning this poll in a landslide.
Just saying that name out loud, makes me feel like correcting myself as saying "rudebutt gilly-man"
Haha, thats an excellent pun in order to get in the face of his rabid fans.
Hey I'm not rabid! I just really like the Ultramarines, because they are the awesomest of the space marines who are the awesomest faction in 40k because of their armor and super strength.... and.... and... they spit acid, and they have chainsaw swords and....and they don't wear hemets....
Don't care about /tg/, but voted iron hands due to knowing latin.
Would almost have voted for the twins because that whole bit is completely flipper-baby: look I have made 20 primarchs! But sire there are 21 tubes" oh, those 2 are twins(alternatively "but sire there are 2 in That tube")
I start by apologising if it gas been said already, because i only read first page.
I beilieve their names are describing their nature so aptly, because they did not get their names at birth.
They got their names through their reputation.
Just like so many other iconic figures of all times, they have a nickname, that describe some distinguished form of their nature.
It makes sense to me atleast.
Like if your neighbor is always angry, the kids might start calling him angron amongst themselves.
If your neighbor has a wooden leg, they would call him woody or oneleg or something.
Would you name your child Rogal, Robute, Fulgrim or Lorgar deliberately? The only Primarch with a name which is normal is Magnus. The rest would face one hell of a bullying due to name.
Beaviz81 wrote: Would you name your child Rogal, Robute, Fulgrim or Lorgar deliberately? The only Primarch with a name which is normal is Magnus. The rest would face one hell of a bullying due to name.
I would. That's why I don't have kids.
nareik wrote: His first name is a portmanteau of Regal and Royal, synonyms of imperial. His second name is the Irish word for 'fist'.
That's... very disappointing. It's really too bad GW can't/won't change the names of the Primarchs.
And Kurze isn't a silly name either, my mind tends to forget about most of the traitor Primarchs.
There's a lot of names that aren't so much silly as they are contrived.
Most of them are silly, but Alpharius Omegon gets my vote. Its bad dog latin and much more recognizable than Ferrus Manus I think. Corvus Corax, is a close second for me.
Has it occured to anyone that Leman Russ is for Aleman Russ, that is German Russian in french?
I am suprised at all the hate towards Lion El'Johnson and Roboute Guillmann, at least they sound like names someone could have. I always figured people would be called Johnson even in the far future when I read those names.
I honestly can't see why Roboute Guilliman's name is seen as a silly name. There is no inherent reference in the name, unlike Lion, Ferrus, Angron, Corax, Sanguinius, or Perturabo's. I just think that it's just offspill of Ultra-hate.
Sgt_Smudge wrote: I honestly can't see why Roboute Guilliman's name is seen as a silly name. There is no inherent reference in the name, unlike Lion, Ferrus, Angron, Corax, Sanguinius, or Perturabo's. I just think that it's just offspill of Ultra-hate.
You see hatred like small girls see unicorns. Except Magnus each Primarch had exceptionally stupid names, and Robute is up there in the top three.
Sgt_Smudge wrote: I honestly can't see why Roboute Guilliman's name is seen as a silly name. There is no inherent reference in the name, unlike Lion, Ferrus, Angron, Corax, Sanguinius, or Perturabo's. I just think that it's just offspill of Ultra-hate.
You see hatred like small girls see unicorns. Except Magnus each Primarch had exceptionally stupid names, and Robute is up there in the top three.
Actually, I find Magnus' name to be a rather stupid name itself, more stupid than Guilliman's, but that's just my two cents.
Sgt_Smudge wrote: I honestly can't see why Roboute Guilliman's name is seen as a silly name. There is no inherent reference in the name, unlike Lion, Ferrus, Angron, Corax, Sanguinius, or Perturabo's. I just think that it's just offspill of Ultra-hate.
You see hatred like small girls see unicorns. Except Magnus each Primarch had exceptionally stupid names, and Robute is up there in the top three.
Actually, I find Magnus' name to be a rather stupid name itself, more stupid than Guilliman's, but that's just my two cents.
In my country Magnus is a perfectly normal name. I have actually known guys named Magnus. Robute on the other hand...
Sgt_Smudge wrote: I honestly can't see why Roboute Guilliman's name is seen as a silly name. There is no inherent reference in the name, unlike Lion, Ferrus, Angron, Corax, Sanguinius, or Perturabo's. I just think that it's just offspill of Ultra-hate.
You see hatred like small girls see unicorns. Except Magnus each Primarch had exceptionally stupid names, and Robute is up there in the top three.
Actually, I find Magnus' name to be a rather stupid name itself, more stupid than Guilliman's, but that's just my two cents.
In my country Magnus is a perfectly normal name. I have actually known guys named Magnus. Robute on the other hand...
Sgt_Smudge wrote: I honestly can't see why Roboute Guilliman's name is seen as a silly name. There is no inherent reference in the name, unlike Lion, Ferrus, Angron, Corax, Sanguinius, or Perturabo's. I just think that it's just offspill of Ultra-hate.
I'm with you. I don't see what's silly about Guilliman. I hate all the 'rowboat' and 'girlyman' stuff.
Sgt_Smudge wrote: I honestly can't see why Roboute Guilliman's name is seen as a silly name. There is no inherent reference in the name, unlike Lion, Ferrus, Angron, Corax, Sanguinius, or Perturabo's. I just think that it's just offspill of Ultra-hate.
I'm with you. I don't see what's silly about Guilliman. I hate all the 'rowboat' and 'girlyman' stuff.
Maybe you should get a sense of humor about the matter.
Most of the Rowboat jokes come out of America, where French people all live in the arse-end of Canada. In England, where French is a kind of bread and a strong swimmer can get to France in a few hours, Roboute seems perfectly reasonable.
You've got to remember that the names were written at a time when the company was small and didn't take itself seriously, like naming ghazkull thrakka after Margaret Thatcher, the Rock after rock city, and kislev characters called dorjetski. Huge pinches of salt needed.
Sgt_Smudge wrote: I honestly can't see why Roboute Guilliman's name is seen as a silly name. There is no inherent reference in the name, unlike Lion, Ferrus, Angron, Corax, Sanguinius, or Perturabo's. I just think that it's just offspill of Ultra-hate.
I'm with you. I don't see what's silly about Guilliman. I hate all the 'rowboat' and 'girlyman' stuff.
Maybe you should get a sense of humor about the matter.
I have a perfectly functional sense of humour. It tends to stop working when I read the exact same 'joke' God knows how many times.
JamesY wrote: You've got to remember that the names were written at a time when the company was small and didn't take itself seriously, like naming ghazkull thrakka after Margaret Thatcher, the Rock after rock city, and kislev characters called dorjetski. Huge pinches of salt needed.
Also row- bootie girlyman is the silliest
I always thought Thraka was named after thraka from Watership Down.it literally means crap there. And you are right Rowboat Girlyman is a very silly name.
Most of the Rowboat jokes come out of America, where French people all live in the arse-end of Canada. In England, where French is a kind of bread and a strong swimmer can get to France in a few hours, Roboute seems perfectly reasonable.
Magnus the Big Magus on the other hand...
I live in Norway. And the current chess-master of the world is named Magnus Carlsen. Think about that for a minute. And I find Robot-jokes funny.
Sgt_Smudge wrote: I honestly can't see why Roboute Guilliman's name is seen as a silly name. There is no inherent reference in the name, unlike Lion, Ferrus, Angron, Corax, Sanguinius, or Perturabo's. I just think that it's just offspill of Ultra-hate.
I'm with you. I don't see what's silly about Guilliman. I hate all the 'rowboat' and 'girlyman' stuff.
Maybe you should get a sense of humor about the matter.
I have a perfectly functional sense of humour. It tends to stop working when I read the exact same 'joke' God knows how many times.
Honest to God, you don't come across to me as someone with a sense of humor.
That's because we're talking about one of those 'jokes' that gets parroted around God knows how many times in any thread about the Primarchs. Nothing to do with my sense of humour, it just isn't funny.
But by all means, make baseless assumptions about me.
Agreed with ImAGeek here. My sense of humour is functioning fine, but when I hear the same thing repeated over and over, without any reason other than because "ultrasmurfs suck hurr durr feth matt ward spiritual liege that" it can be a wee bit irritating. I can't see anything wrong with the name, as I've mentioned before in more detail, especially when the only thing wrong with it is people's interpretation of how it is pronounced and that the pronunciation somehow happens to sound like Rawbutt Girlyman (which I have never associated when reading Roboute Guilliman myself). But sure, because a mispronounced name is more silly than a Primarch of the Iron Hands with Iron Hands called Iron Hand, or one who is really really angry, so guess what they called him? Just putting that out there.
You know the two of you together come off as the same vibe as the grumpy old men at Muppet Show. Maybe you should go on tour together. As you seem to fit together like a couple that has been married for like fifty damn years and helps eachother with that disgusting plastic-bag they have used for the last ten years at the local grocer.
You are the epitome of stop having fun guys. I mean you are like: "Poor me, this ain't funny at all, stop doing this as I don't like this." Lay in a very whiny and annoying voice there.
Redcruisair wrote: @Beaviz81 hey buddy I like your signature. Maybe you should consider doing as it says.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
All I did was point out that two guys are moaning instead of doing anything constructive and being fairly humorous about the matter as Muppet Show is funny.
Redcruisair wrote: @Beaviz81 hey buddy I like your signature. Maybe you should consider doing as it says.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
All I did was point out that two guys are giving an opinion which happens to contradict yours instead of agreeing with your views and being fairly humorous about the matter as Muppet Show is funny.
Edited. Either way, the poll says what it says, so no complaints from me. However, a fair amount of British/French/European gamers seem to find Guilliman's name quite normal. I think Furyou hit on a good point there.
Redcruisair wrote: @Beaviz81 hey buddy I like your signature. Maybe you should consider doing as it says.
If you have nothing nice to say then say frakking nothing.
All I did was point out that two guys are giving an opinion which happens to contradict yours instead of agreeing with your views and being fairly humorous about the matter as Muppet Show is funny.
Edited.
Either way, the poll says what it says, so no complaints from me. However, a fair amount of British/French/European gamers seem to find Guilliman's name quite normal.
I think Furyou hit on a good point there.
Ever come across anyone named Guilliman? I bet not. I have mentioned a guy named Magnus, He is the current chessmaster of the world. And both of his names are as common as sliced bread here in Norway. Ever heard about Robute? I bet not. And I'm European, so you just posted bullcrap. You can say its hater-fluff, but not that it is regionally. Thats racist.
Just because Magnus is a real name and Guilliman isn't, it doesn't neccesarily follow that Guilliman sounds sillier. There's plenty of silly sounding real names, and plenty of sensible sounding fictional names.
ImAGeek wrote: Just because Magnus is a real name and Guilliman isn't, it doesn't neccesarily follow that Guilliman sounds sillier. There's plenty of silly sounding real names, and plenty of sensible sounding fictional names.
ImAGeek wrote: Just because Magnus is a real name and Guilliman isn't, it doesn't neccesarily follow that Guilliman sounds sillier. There's plenty of silly sounding real names, and plenty of sensible sounding fictional names.
ImAGeek wrote: Just because Magnus is a real name and Guilliman isn't, it doesn't neccesarily follow that Guilliman sounds sillier. There's plenty of silly sounding real names, and plenty of sensible sounding fictional names.
Then name examples.
Roboute Guilliman.
Not a name you give to even your worst enemy. Get on with it and produce something else.
ImAGeek wrote: It's really not that bad. It sounds normal. It sounds foreign, but like a proper name.
You provide opinion not evidence.
This whole discussion is about opinion, I can't give evidence for my opinion, you just need to accept some people have different opinions to you.
Yeah and you must learn to see Rowboat Girlyman without moaning. This swings both ways.
I hardly moaned, I just stated once that it annoyed me. You then blew it out of proportion, made huge assumptions and was quite rude for no reason. It's pointless and unfunny and seeing it over and over again is irritating. Pardon me for saying so.
Have you done anything to make me change my view of you? And were were I rude? I compared you and Sludge to the two grumpy old men for good reason (at least in my mind which in their own way are funny). You need to re-think yourself and learn to roll with the punches. I still think you and Sludge as I kinda imagine you two wrapping the groceries in a ten year old plastic-bag like every old couple I see at my local grocer.
Why should i do anything to make me change your view of me? I've told you it's wrong and frankly you've not really given me an opportunity to, if I were going to go out of my way to do so.
I guess we don't but I accept that, you seem unable to.
With the best if intentions, could you please read my name a little more closely? Either way, we disagree. Great. Can we stop cluttering the thread please?
Sgt_Smudge wrote: With the best if intentions, could you please read my name a little more closely? Either way, we disagree. Great. Can we stop cluttering the thread please?
Oh crap, It was Smudge, not Sludge?. Well I'm sorry for the misunderstanding and can only blame dyslexia for that one and what my scrambled brain thought was more funny. Well it would be more funny if you for no good reasons changed your nick, but I guess the MODs would mind. Sorry I often just look at the first and last letter and jump to conclusions.
Sgt_Smudge wrote: With the best if intentions, could you please read my name a little more closely? Either way, we disagree. Great. Can we stop cluttering the thread please?
Oh crap, It was Smudge, not Sludge?. Well I'm sorry for the misunderstanding and can only blame dyslexia for that one and what my scrambled brain thought was more funny. Well it would be more funny if you for no good reasons changed your nick, but I guess the MODs would mind. Sorry I often just look at the first and last letter and jump to conclusions.
Magnus sounds silly. Why? Magnus is latin for great. Great, not as "This nutella is fething great on everything" but great meaning size. And he is a giant (literally, even among Primarchs).
Roboute Guilliman. No obvious latin-y meaning behind it like Ferrus Manus, Magnus or Corax. Pronunciation is simple too, I don't understand why people struggle. Rob-boot, Gwill-i-min. Simples.
Deadshot wrote: Magnus sounds silly. Why? Magnus is latin for great. Great, not as "This nutella is fething great on everything" but great meaning size. And he is a giant (literally, even among Primarchs).
Roboute Guilliman. No obvious latin-y meaning behind it like Ferrus Manus, Magnus or Corax. Pronunciation is simple too, I don't understand why people struggle. Rob-boot, Gwill-i-min. Simples.
Magnus is the current chessmaster of the world, that should prove something.
Wrong about what..? The question is 'which Primarch name is silliest?' Not 'which Primarch name is real' or 'which Primarch name is most popular in the real world' or 'which Primarch shares his name with a chess player...'
ImAGeek wrote: Wrong about what..? The question is 'which Primarch name is silliest?' Not 'which Primarch name is real' or 'which Primarch name is most popular in the real world' or 'which Primarch shares his name with a chess player...'
You basically move the goalposts as you see fit? I'm sorry but it doesn't work that way. I provided my case by showing you a real famous person with a real common name, you have done none of that. All you have provided is wishful thinking and little else.
I don't understand what you mean. It's a subjective discussion about which Primarch names we find silliest. Showing that a real person shares a name with one of them doesn't prove anything. Nothing needs proving. I haven't moved any goalposts?
ImAGeek wrote: I don't understand what you mean. It's a subjective discussion about which Primarch names we find silliest. Showing that a real person shares a name with one of them doesn't prove anything. Nothing needs proving. I haven't moved any goalposts?
You want to prove Magnus is silly. He has like thousands of namesakes here in Norway. That render your point moot at best. Plus he is the current chessmaster which in my mind should shut any opposition up as that proves the awesomeness of both player and Primarch. And believe you me MC hit the headlines of Norwegian news regularly.
I've never actually said Magnus is a silly name, just that I don't think Guilliman is. And again, just because a name is real, doesn't mean it can't sound silly. You're obviously used to the name Magnus. It's not a common name everywhere.
And seriously? Because he's the current grandmaster at chess that makes the name and the Primarch awesome? It doesn't work like that.
Magnus is a silly name. Don't care if he's grandmaster of the Starship Enterprise, still find it silly. Especially when purposefully chosen to describe a giant. THAT'S what makes it silly in the same vein as Ferris Manus.
ImAGeek wrote: Just because Magnus is a real name and Guilliman isn't, it doesn't neccesarily follow that Guilliman sounds sillier. There's plenty of silly sounding real names, and plenty of sensible sounding fictional names.
Then name examples.
Silly real names? Melvin.
It's the ultimate nerd name. It even sounds like it should belong to a complete drip.
It also means "sword-friend" (Melvin is the modern form of Maelwine). Melvin is literally the guy you go to when you want someone stabbed.
That Robute or Guilliman are popular names. They are not even within the setting. Sorry you are wrong here.
Actually, Roboute is a very popular name in the Ultramar sector, according to Graham McNeill. Guilliman is a family name, it doesn't get to be popular.or not because it's not one that gets chosen, but rather inherited.
Guilleman, by the way, is a real family name, and Roboute is nothing more than Robert with a pseudo-french accent. According to Veteran Sergeant, his name's a reference to an American military guy;
Veteran Sergeant wrote: Likewise the likelihood of Roboute Guilliman being a reference to Robert Gillman Jackson, a master of, you guessed it, logistics and nation development, with the UN in the 50s, 60s, and 70s is quite clever.
I would just ignore Beaviz at this point, he has an interesting post history that has him being...pretty unreasonable to debate with and its clear he's not willing to engage without being (ironically) rude at some level. If he doesn't acknowledge or respect a differing opinion that's his problem, especially given that we're talking about 40K here, one of the most ambiguous and silly settings (with regards to how things are cranked up to 11).
Personally, I find that Ferrus Manus takes the cake. As a character he's fine but the name with regards to the rest of Legion and his actual physical make up is ridonculous.
Grimskul wrote: I would just ignore Beaviz at this point, he has an interesting post history that has him being...pretty unreasonable to debate with and its clear he's not willing to engage without being (ironically) rude at some level. If he doesn't acknowledge or respect a differing opinion that's his problem, especially given that we're talking about 40K here, one of the most ambiguous and silly settings (with regards to how things are cranked up to 11).
Personally, I find that Ferrus Manus takes the cake. As a character he's fine but the name with regards to the rest of Legion and his actual physical make up is ridonculous.
Grimskul wrote: I would just ignore Beaviz at this point, he has an interesting post history that has him being...pretty unreasonable to debate with and its clear he's not willing to engage without being (ironically) rude at some level. If he doesn't acknowledge or respect a differing opinion that's his problem, especially given that we're talking about 40K here, one of the most ambiguous and silly settings (with regards to how things are cranked up to 11).
Personally, I find that Ferrus Manus takes the cake. As a character he's fine but the name with regards to the rest of Legion and his actual physical make up is ridonculous.
Well, based on the exchange in this thread and your read on the situation, first person I've ever ignored.
Roboute Guilliman just sounds French to me. I guess French words are inherently silly to some people, particularly Americans. The only thing silly about it is how Roman/Greek/Byzantine the Ultramarines seem, but how French their legion and primarch names are. The name itself isn't inherently silly, it looks and sounds like a real name, and the reference it's making (since every damn primarch is a pun or reference) is very obscure and kind of cool. Compare that to Ferrus Manus or Angron, whose names are embarrassing to even mention to outsiders.
Still, I voted Lion El'Jonson. It isn't mildly cool pig-latin, it isn't the name of an actual gladiator who might have been angry, it isn't any other cool (Konrad Curze is Colonel Kurtz and died by the hands of assassin Martin Sheen/M'Shen) or oblique (Dorn means fist in Irish? who knew!) reference. It's clearly two rather normal english names with a sci-fi apostrophe and it's referencing the author of a poem called The Dark Angel. The name sounds quite stupid when you say it and the explanation isn't even a good pun or allusion. It's always annoyed me more than any other primarch name for being so lame and out of place and having nothing cool to back it up.
Having typed all that out though, Corvus Corax and Ferrus Manus really were neck and neck. Being latin names in a setting where pig latin is so common is really what saves them; otherwise the heavy-handed absurdity of their names would be even worse.
CalgarsPimpHand wrote: Still, I voted Lion El'Jonson. It isn't mildly cool pig-latin, it isn't the name of an actual gladiator who might have been angry, it isn't any other cool (Konrad Curze is Colonel Kurtz and died by the hands of assassin Martin Sheen/M'Shen) or oblique (Dorn means fist in Irish? who knew!) reference. It's clearly two rather normal english names with a sci-fi apostrophe and it's referencing the author of a poem called The Dark Angel. The name sounds quite stupid when you say it and the explanation isn't even a good pun or allusion. It's always annoyed me more than any other primarch name for being so lame and out of place and having nothing cool to back it up.
Pretty much why I went with Johnson, too. I mean, no doubt there's no lack of contenders from the list. Almost every single one is silly when you say it out loud and think about it's context/origin. But, reading them all collectively down the list, "Lion El'Johnson" just jumps out for all the wrong reasons. It doesn't help that his Legion are probably the ones who take themselves the most seriously.
CalgarsPimpHand wrote: Still, I voted Lion El'Jonson. It isn't mildly cool pig-latin, it isn't the name of an actual gladiator who might have been angry, it isn't any other cool (Konrad Curze is Colonel Kurtz and died by the hands of assassin Martin Sheen/M'Shen) or oblique (Dorn means fist in Irish? who knew!) reference. It's clearly two rather normal english names with a sci-fi apostrophe and it's referencing the author of a poem called The Dark Angel. The name sounds quite stupid when you say it and the explanation isn't even a good pun or allusion. It's always annoyed me more than any other primarch name for being so lame and out of place and having nothing cool to back it up.
Pretty much why I went with Johnson, too. I mean, no doubt there's no lack of contenders from the list. Almost every single one is silly when you say it out loud and think about it's context/origin. But, reading them all collectively down the list, "Lion El'Johnson" just jumps out for all the wrong reasons. It doesn't help that his Legion are probably the ones who take themselves the most seriously.
Hahahha, have you even seen the Ultramarines and their fans?
Furyou Miko wrote:. According to Veteran Sergeant, his name's a reference to an American military guy;
Veteran Sergeant wrote: Likewise the likelihood of Roboute Guilliman being a reference to Robert Gillman Jackson, a master of, you guessed it, logistics and nation development, with the UN in the 50s, 60s, and 70s is quite clever.
Actually, Australian (later British Navy). But he was famous for his work with the UN, not the military.
Silly real names? Melvin.
It's the ultimate nerd name. It even sounds like it should belong to a complete drip.
I used to think this until the San Diego Chargers ended up with not one, but two guys named Melvin. And they're bothhuge.
Then again, maybe it is because they were named Melvin and it was either "be huge" or "get picked on". I mean, it's never been any surprise to me that a guy named Dick Butkus turned into one of the most feared NFL linebackers of his era.
CalgarsPimpHand wrote: Still, I voted Lion El'Jonson. It isn't mildly cool pig-latin, it isn't the name of an actual gladiator who might have been angry, it isn't any other cool (Konrad Curze is Colonel Kurtz and died by the hands of assassin Martin Sheen/M'Shen) or oblique (Dorn means fist in Irish? who knew!) reference. It's clearly two rather normal english names with a sci-fi apostrophe and it's referencing the author of a poem called The Dark Angel. The name sounds quite stupid when you say it and the explanation isn't even a good pun or allusion. It's always annoyed me more than any other primarch name for being so lame and out of place and having nothing cool to back it up.
Pretty much why I went with Johnson, too. I mean, no doubt there's no lack of contenders from the list. Almost every single one is silly when you say it out loud and think about it's context/origin. But, reading them all collectively down the list, "Lion El'Johnson" just jumps out for all the wrong reasons. It doesn't help that his Legion are probably the ones who take themselves the most seriously.
Hahahha, have you even seen the Ultramarines and their fans?
If there was an LVP award for this forum, you certainly wouldn't be considered a dark horse to win.
CalgarsPimpHand wrote: Still, I voted Lion El'Jonson. It isn't mildly cool pig-latin, it isn't the name of an actual gladiator who might have been angry, it isn't any other cool (Konrad Curze is Colonel Kurtz and died by the hands of assassin Martin Sheen/M'Shen) or oblique (Dorn means fist in Irish? who knew!) reference. It's clearly two rather normal english names with a sci-fi apostrophe and it's referencing the author of a poem called The Dark Angel. The name sounds quite stupid when you say it and the explanation isn't even a good pun or allusion. It's always annoyed me more than any other primarch name for being so lame and out of place and having nothing cool to back it up.
Pretty much why I went with Johnson, too. I mean, no doubt there's no lack of contenders from the list. Almost every single one is silly when you say it out loud and think about it's context/origin. But, reading them all collectively down the list, "Lion El'Johnson" just jumps out for all the wrong reasons. It doesn't help that his Legion are probably the ones who take themselves the most seriously.
Hahahha, have you even seen the Ultramarines and their fans?
If there was an LVP award for this forum, you certainly wouldn't be considered a dark horse to win.
Right back at you and start reading Deathwatch 2010 so you stop deluding yourself.
Furyou Miko wrote:. According to Veteran Sergeant, his name's a reference to an American military guy;
Veteran Sergeant wrote: Likewise the likelihood of Roboute Guilliman being a reference to Robert Gillman Jackson, a master of, you guessed it, logistics and nation development, with the UN in the 50s, 60s, and 70s is quite clever.
Actually, Australian (later British Navy). But he was famous for his work with the UN, not the military.
ImAGeek wrote: I don't understand what you mean. It's a subjective discussion about which Primarch names we find silliest. Showing that a real person shares a name with one of them doesn't prove anything. Nothing needs proving. I haven't moved any goalposts?
Dont know why you are catching so much flak. Magnus is at least a normal name in usage today, and was historically both a Roman name, and later a name for kings, such as Charlemagne and a lot of Magnus'es. If Magnus is silly, then Horus and Leman should sound silly by the same logic, which I guess it does to some people. I think the silliest names are the ones that is just made up, or references some obvious popcultural character.
This is why I didnt find Lionel Johnson so silly; it is not unthinkable that at some point in the future people will still be named johnson, or lionel.
ImAGeek wrote: I don't understand what you mean. It's a subjective discussion about which Primarch names we find silliest. Showing that a real person shares a name with one of them doesn't prove anything. Nothing needs proving. I haven't moved any goalposts?
Dont know why you are catching so much flak. Magnus is at least a normal name in usage today, and was historically both a Roman name, and later a name for kings, such as Charlemagne and a lot of Magnus'es. If Magnus is silly, then Horus and Leman should sound silly by the same logic, which I guess it does to some people. I think the silliest names are the ones that is just made up, or references some obvious popcultural character.
This is why I didnt find Lionel Johnson so silly; it is not unthinkable that at some point in the future people will still be named johnson, or lionel.
Its not about the name itself, its about the not so subtle references in each name.
Lion El'Johnson is a fine name, but the poorly concealed reference to a man of the same name who wrote a poem called The Dark Angel, lived in Nottingham and happened to be gay makes it silly, when the Legion are the Dark Angels, GW is based in Nottingham and the DA are made fun of for wearing dresses(robes).
Ferrus Manus is an okay name, but once you realise his not so subtle reference is that his name is Latin/High Gothic for Iron Hands, he has metal hands and his Legion are the Iron Hands.
Horus is a good name because it has a nice regal sound to it with a slight foreboding tone due to the long OR sound. His reference is a good reference due to his namesake, the Egyptian God Horus, being similarly so powerful. The Primarchs are also mythological in 40k, demigods, so names associated with Gods such as Horus (or Vulkan, named for Vulcan, who lives on Prometheus, named after the Greek Titan) works well.
Jaghatai Khan is a good name because it sounds Mongolian/Asian, the Kh sound is a harsh, foreign sound to the English speaker (so much so the creators of Game of Thrones use it a lot for the on-screen Dothraki barbarian horselords, and it involves a harsh flicking back of the tongue towards the throat). His name is also a reference to Genghis Khan, and his planet, Chogoris, to Genghis' son. Obscure reference with no jokes or overly cheesy part to be made.
Magnus is a regal name but its normality subtracts from the divinity and godliness Horus and Vulkan have. His subtle reference? Magnus is latin for Great/Big, and he's a giant. Not clever or subtle.
Roboute Guilliman's only made fun of because Americans can't seem to pronounce it easily. So they mock him with Rowboat Girlyman to make his posterboy status less and to help them feel more manly. His reference, as above, is incredibly clever and interesting.
ImAGeek wrote: I don't understand what you mean. It's a subjective discussion about which Primarch names we find silliest. Showing that a real person shares a name with one of them doesn't prove anything. Nothing needs proving. I haven't moved any goalposts?
Dont know why you are catching so much flak. Magnus is at least a normal name in usage today, and was historically both a Roman name, and later a name for kings, such as Charlemagne and a lot of Magnus'es. If Magnus is silly, then Horus and Leman should sound silly by the same logic, which I guess it does to some people. I think the silliest names are the ones that is just made up, or references some obvious popcultural character.
This is why I didnt find Lionel Johnson so silly; it is not unthinkable that at some point in the future people will still be named johnson, or lionel.
Charlemagne was not named Magnus, he was named Karl. Or Carolus in Latin. Carolus Magnus means Charles the Great. Magnus was his title, not his name.
And yes, people in 40.000 years still being named Lionel or Johnson is ridiculous. Take a look at names from just 5000 years ago, they are already unrecognisable. Realistically, languages and names 40.000 years into the future should be completely weird and nonsensical to us.
Iron_Captain wrote: And yes, people in 40.000 years still being named Lionel or Johnson is ridiculous. Take a look at names from just 5000 years ago, they are already unrecognisable. Realistically, languages and names 40.000 years into the future should be completely weird and nonsensical to us.
Writing, and the dissemination of information, was very limited 5000 years ago, but ubiquitous today. It's not unreasonable that a good amount of modern names will be preserved in recognisable forms in the future. Plenty of biblical names are still around.
I know this will probably get buried, but I believe the 'll' in Guilliman is silent, like guillotine or other French names that make the double L silent.
So it would be pronounced g-ee-uh-min, as in guillotine.
Anyone else?
AFAIK, adding the L sound is Americanizing it, or Englishizing... whatever......
pax macharia wrote: I know this will probably get buried, but I believe the 'll' in Guilliman is silent, like guillotine or other French names that make the double L silent.
So it would be pronounced g-ee-uh-min, as in guillotine.
Anyone else?
AFAIK, adding the L sound is Americanizing it, or Englishizing... whatever......
Its an English company created by Queen's English speakers so you have to assume the Queen's English pronunciation is correct unless otherwise specified or its a specifically foreign word. If one primarch was called Roberto Mancini, for example (currently watching Sky Sports News), the english would say Man-Sin-ee. The actually pronunciation is Man-cheen-ee/Man-sheen-ee. If one of the names were directly taken from a foreign name like Lionel Johnson is a straight up English name, you would pronounce it foreign. Otgerwise go English.
In any case the point is moot. The Space Marine video game has one character shout "What in Guilliman's name is this?!" And pronounces it Gwill-ee-min. That's an official GW production, liscenced and support by the company, so probably the closest we have to an "official statement" on the pronunciation.
pax macharia wrote: I know this will probably get buried, but I believe the 'll' in Guilliman is silent, like guillotine or other French names that make the double L silent.
So it would be pronounced g-ee-uh-min, as in guillotine.
Anyone else?
AFAIK, adding the L sound is Americanizing it, or Englishizing... whatever......
Its an English company created by Queen's English speakers so you have to assume the Queen's English pronunciation is correct unless otherwise specified or its a specifically foreign word. If one primarch was called Roberto Mancini, for example (currently watching Sky Sports News), the english would say Man-Sin-ee. The actually pronunciation is Man-cheen-ee/Man-sheen-ee. If one of the names were directly taken from a foreign name like Lionel Johnson is a straight up English name, you would pronounce it foreign. Otgerwise go English.
In any case the point is moot. The Space Marine video game has one character shout "What in Guilliman's name is this?!" And pronounces it Gwill-ee-min. That's an official GW production, liscenced and support by the company, so probably the closest we have to an "official statement" on the pronunciation.
Just curious, one spanker to another, what did you vote for?
pax macharia wrote: I know this will probably get buried, but I believe the 'll' in Guilliman is silent, like guillotine or other French names that make the double L silent.
So it would be pronounced g-ee-uh-min, as in guillotine.
Anyone else?
AFAIK, adding the L sound is Americanizing it, or Englishizing... whatever......
Its an English company created by Queen's English speakers so you have to assume the Queen's English pronunciation is correct unless otherwise specified or its a specifically foreign word. If one primarch was called Roberto Mancini, for example (currently watching Sky Sports News), the english would say Man-Sin-ee. The actually pronunciation is Man-cheen-ee/Man-sheen-ee. If one of the names were directly taken from a foreign name like Lionel Johnson is a straight up English name, you would pronounce it foreign. Otgerwise go English.
In any case the point is moot. The Space Marine video game has one character shout "What in Guilliman's name is this?!" And pronounces it Gwill-ee-min. That's an official GW production, liscenced and support by the company, so probably the closest we have to an "official statement" on the pronunciation.
Just curious, one spanker to another, what did you vote for?
No idea, this was page 1 when I voted. Manus would be my vote now.
Deadshot wrote: Magnus is a silly name. Don't care if he's grandmaster of the Starship Enterprise, still find it silly. Especially when purposefully chosen to describe a giant. THAT'S what makes it silly in the same vein as Ferris Manus.
Magnus really isn't that weird or silly. Magnus is rather common, and it's no weirder than "titus" "maximus" "lucius" "julius" etc. etc. It's just a Latin pun GW felt like pulling, and is nothing compared to the Iron Hand having Iron Hands, being the leader of the Iron Hands, who happen to have Iron Hands, and use Iron Hands as their symbol. That level of stupidity takes the cake.
Also, Guilliman and Jonson aren't even that weird, why the frack are people saying that those are the silliest?
pax macharia wrote: I know this will probably get buried, but I believe the 'll' in Guilliman is silent, like guillotine or other French names that make the double L silent.
So it would be pronounced g-ee-uh-min, as in guillotine.
Anyone else?
AFAIK, adding the L sound is Americanizing it, or Englishizing... whatever......
Its an English company created by Queen's English speakers so you have to assume the Queen's English pronunciation is correct unless otherwise specified or its a specifically foreign word.
You're right, I have to, otherwise the redcoats'll come get me hahahaha
Edit;
Deadshot wrote: In any case the point is moot. The Space Marine video game has one character shout "What in Guilliman's name is this?!" And pronounces it Gwill-ee-min. That's an official GW production, liscenced and support by the company, so probably the closest we have to an "official statement" on the pronunciation.
And we all know that game to be a shining pinnacle of lore representation. They didn't include a cover system because Astartes don't use cover... At least according to Relic, the studio who actually made the game.
pax macharia wrote: I know this will probably get buried, but I believe the 'll' in Guilliman is silent, like guillotine or other French names that make the double L silent.
So it would be pronounced g-ee-uh-min, as in guillotine.
Anyone else?
AFAIK, adding the L sound is Americanizing it, or Englishizing... whatever......
Its an English company created by Queen's English speakers so you have to assume the Queen's English pronunciation is correct unless otherwise specified or its a specifically foreign word.
You're right, I have to, otherwise the redcoats'll come get me hahahaha
Edit;
Deadshot wrote: In any case the point is moot. The Space Marine video game has one character shout "What in Guilliman's name is this?!" And pronounces it Gwill-ee-min. That's an official GW production, liscenced and support by the company, so probably the closest we have to an "official statement" on the pronunciation.
And we all know that game to be a shining pinnacle of lore representation. They didn't include a cover system because Astartes don't use cover... At least according to Relic, the studio who actually made the game.
Well if using a British computer, british spellchecker and British typist, you're going to use the British spelling and grammar, and vocab, not the American. And its a british company using british computers and typists. Assume that you use the British spelling unless shown otherwise. If it were an American conpany you would use American vocab.
True, but its still a GW funded game, and tif they were displeased with that pronunciation they would have said. And its still the closest thijg to an "official statement" we have.
pax macharia wrote: I know this will probably get buried, but I believe the 'll' in Guilliman is silent, like guillotine or other French names that make the double L silent.
So it would be pronounced g-ee-uh-min, as in guillotine.
Anyone else?
AFAIK, adding the L sound is Americanizing it, or Englishizing... whatever......
Its an English company created by Queen's English speakers so you have to assume the Queen's English pronunciation is correct unless otherwise specified or its a specifically foreign word.
You're right, I have to, otherwise the redcoats'll come get me hahahaha
Edit;
Deadshot wrote: In any case the point is moot. The Space Marine video game has one character shout "What in Guilliman's name is this?!" And pronounces it Gwill-ee-min. That's an official GW production, liscenced and support by the company, so probably the closest we have to an "official statement" on the pronunciation.
And we all know that game to be a shining pinnacle of lore representation. They didn't include a cover system because Astartes don't use cover... At least according to Relic, the studio who actually made the game.
Well if using a British computer, british spellchecker and British typist, you're going to use the British spelling and grammar, and vocab, not the American. And its a british company using british computers and typists. Assume that you use the British spelling unless shown otherwise. If it were an American conpany you would use American vocab.
True, but its still a GW funded game, and tif they were displeased with that pronunciation they would have said. And its still the closest thijg to an "official statement" we have.
However, there are likely millions of different accents in 40k, with people from different worlds, different regions on said worlds, different asteroid belts, etc. etc. each saying it differently. You could have people from Ultramar say "Gwill-ee-min", while people from Terra say "Gill-uh-min" while people from Cadia say "Gee-yo-min", etc. etc.
Deadshot wrote: Well if using a British computer, british spellchecker and British typist, you're going to use the British spelling and grammar, and vocab, not the American. And its a british company using british computers and typists. Assume that you use the British spelling unless shown otherwise. If it were an American conpany you would use American vocab.
True, but its still a GW funded game, and tif they were displeased with that pronunciation they would have said. And its still the closest thijg to an "official statement" we have.
Saying I should use language one way or another is called linguistic prescriptivism, it's a language philosophy which believes language should maintain a concrete set of rules basically breaking it down into right an wrong, linguistic descriptivism however approaches the nature language as constantly changing. There's nothing I need to do, I can say it however I want. At this point it feels like you're just telling me what to do cause even you said
The game says they don't use cover, GW didn't say no to that so I guess Astartes, at least Ultras, don't use cover? You can't know that about GW, and saying 'closest thing to an "official statement"' is another way of saying 'unnofficial statement' which makes it moot as well.
I guess the most reliable recording would be a black library audio book and even then, I still like my version.
I'd probably say Ferrus Manus. His name is just "Iron Hands" translated into Latin, which would make him Iron Hands the iron handed and the Primach of the Iron Hands.
The only one I can't stomach is Horus. 101 Dalmatians immediately comes to mind haha. Sad too, because he is the most influential/significant character of all of them.
And we all know that game to be a shining pinnacle of lore representation. They didn't include a cover system because Astartes don't use cover... At least according to Relic, the studio who actually made the game.
I thought it was pretty spot on. Honestly, 3+ armor is better than almost all cover on the tabletop, so it's not too far off. If you are taking your armor save while in cover, you aren't making much use of the cover, right?
2BlackJack1 wrote: It could be that it looks a little sketchy to pronounce when you first look at it it. I chose Rogal Dorn, since to me Rogal just does not sound good ending with Dorn.
Rogal related to the 2nd baseman, Roger Dorn maybe?
ImAGeek wrote: Charlemagne was not named Magnus, he was named Karl. Or Carolus in Latin. Carolus Magnus means Charles the Great. Magnus was his title, not his name.
And yes, people in 40.000 years still being named Lionel or Johnson is ridiculous. Take a look at names from just 5000 years ago, they are already unrecognisable. Realistically, languages and names 40.000 years into the future should be completely weird and nonsensical to us..
The current crown prince of Norway is called Håkon Magnus. There were 5 King Magnus in Norway with it as a name not a title, the first of them named after Charlemagne (the story is mildly interesting) so it certainly has a regal feel to it in northern europe.
I think Horus is nonsensical. Sounds like "Whore-us" to me...
About names staying the same, people are still being called jacob, abraham and daniel. Which are 3-4000 year old names. With the establishment of written records and personal documents/names, it is not implausible that there will be Johnsons, Smiths and Rodriguez'es 40 000 years from now.
I'm genuinely surprised that Angrypants isn't number one. TO me that has always been by far the silliest one although there are some other good contenders for the title. Out of the top three on the poll I'd actually say that Rowboat Girlyman is the least ridiculous. Ferrus Manus' name is just stupid and has always been a prime example of lazy writing, but whatever. And when it comes to The Lion, truly the greatest of them all, I can't help but think that someone thought they had the greatest of ideas for the name of the legion and their primarch and they've been pretty much forced to stick with it. Also, remember that it originally was spelled Lyyn Elgonsen, how much sillier is that?
So, after a lot of votes, we can start grouping them.
Serious names- these all remained in single digits and deserve respect... and by respect, we mean that serious is a master smith that loves fire is named after a God of smithing and volcanoes.
Lorgar
Mortarion
Vulkan
Magnus the Red
Horus
Rogal Dorn
Fulgrim
Second tier is-
Jaghatai Khan
Sanguinius
Konrad Curze
Leman Russ
Perturabo
Corvus Corax is unique as both a bad spot and a marker for what truly qualifies as bad, as he is the first Primarch that has a name that is an alliteration.
Alpharius and Omegon and Angron are further markers as the only options between 40 and over 100.
Fluff be damned, the Primarchs that need new names are Ferrus Manus, Rouboute Guilliman, and Lion El'Jonson. These names are fething stupid and you should be ashamed if you like their names. Keep in mind, the number of people who voted that Rowboat Girlyman has the silliest name is greater than the number of people who voted for the sum of every Primarch in the first two tiers.
Angron isn't a bad name guys, come on, being named by a slaver subject to barbaric surgery and put into a glatorial arena is going to merit a name that is simple or invokes fear, I don't give a feth if the name sounds stupid in our culture or if it sounds like the word angry. Fluff point of view, angron is fine. (although I think Angron and angrath could use some differentiation).
Knonrad kurze, I never knew the background too, and I didn't have a problem with that name, but ferrus manus is unbelievable. That's no name, and it certainly isn't arguable to be a fitting name from the fluff. I guess its bad mostly because it doesn't really sound like something a Primarch should be. Original, recognizable, and unique names are by far the best.
I really don't know where I stand with Roboute Guilliman, it looks, LOOKS, like an interesting and unique name, but when you read it, then it gets complicated. I find mocking the name distasteful, and I really want the name to sound nice but I have no idea what kind of pronunciation will get me there. It's not really a silly name. Just underwhelming. I think someone was on to something with row butt ayy. gwill I mun.
wolfmerc wrote: Angron isn't a bad name guys, come on, being named by a slaver subject to barbaric surgery and put into a glatorial arena is going to merit a name that is simple or invokes fear, I don't give a feth if the name sounds stupid in our culture or if it sounds like the word angry. Fluff point of view, angron is fine. (although I think Angron and angrath could use some differentiation).
Knonrad kurze, I never knew the background too, and I didn't have a problem with that name, but ferrus manus is unbelievable. That's no name, and it certainly isn't arguable to be a fitting name from the fluff. I guess its bad mostly because it doesn't really sound like something a Primarch should be. Original, recognizable, and unique names are by far the best.
I really don't know where I stand with Roboute Guilliman, it looks, LOOKS, like an interesting and unique name, but when you read it, then it gets complicated. I find mocking the name distasteful, and I really want the name to sound nice but I have no idea what kind of pronunciation will get me there. It's not really a silly name. Just underwhelming. I think someone was on to something with row butt ayy. gwill I mun.
That's what I think.
Rob-boot Gwill-ee-min. Or Rob-boot Gee-uh-man. I asked the french guy I work with how he would pronounce it in French.
I thought Le man might have polled higher. Just picture back in the day.
GW employee 1. "Whos that"
GW employee 2. "Zat, zat is le man"
But Ferrus takes the file and runs out of the park with it.
Reality-Torrent wrote: Lion El'Jonson, its just the name of one of the creators of Games Workshop, is it not?
On a second note, Alpharius Omegon is not one name for one primarch. It's two different names for two different primarchs.
I see what your saying but not exactly. As omniscient third-party readers we know that. But to everyone except the Alpha Legion, his name is Alpharius Omegon, not Alpharius and Omegon. The name the Emperor or Horus gave him was Alpharius Omegon.
Has to be Ferrus Manus
Because his name translates to "iron hands"
So Iron hands, who has Iron hands,who is also the leader if the Iron hands, shall lead his Iron hands to kill traitor Iron hands
(jokes aside, Perturabo is either tied for first favorite Primarch or is my second favorite Primarch)
