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Sanguinius was a fine name, but I don't like it because it's ties to "blood" and the subsequent ties of "blood" to "vampire". I think I speak collectively for the whole of western civilization when I say that if I never hear the word "Vampire" again it will be too soon. Can that fad please be over now?
I thought that fad actually was over and we had all moved on to zombies?
ALL HAIL THE ORKISSIAH, TRINARY SPEAKING GOD OF ORK TECHNOLOGY. (Unlike wimpy old Binary, Orks have commands for Yes, No AND "Maybe")
Agent_Tremolo wrote: In my personal scale for rating unlikely prophecies it scored two Millenium Bugs and one Mayan Apocalypse.
This fething annoys me so much. I know that, back when it was used, it was a not-very-sly wink to the poet who wrote the Dark Angel about lashings of gayness lololol and no-one ever expected to ahve to take it seriously, but it's so hamfisted and jars with me a lot.
Roboute reads as Robert in my head and that lacks gravitas, but I can cope with that.
Ferrus Manus is just stupid and lazy.
But Lion El'Johnson is the one that boils my piss.
ImAGeek wrote: The thing with Ferrus Manus is, it wouldn't be too bad if it was just that. But when it's the Iron Hand, with metal hands, leading the Iron Hands, many of which have metal hands... It's very silly.
While I agree that it is all very silly, I disagree strongly that it wouldn't be so bad otherwise. Corvus Corax is every bit as silly with regards to the "hidden" meaning, but for me it's still a much better sounding name. Corax actually sounds kinda cool.
Ferrus Manus by contrast sounds like one of the joke names from Life of Brian, like Bigus Dickus. So on top of being silly, it's also just a rubbish name.
Most of the Chapters have some social or historical significance in that they represent a particular culture. Khan is the best example - having a very clearly Mongolian name and being father to the chapter that almost exactly mirrors the Mongols of 4th Century.
Not all the name are that obvious, but they all either come from (or could be derived from) real world cultures and civilizations.
Roboute is just too easy to make fun of... come on "Raw Butt Girly Man"... it's so true!! Plus his legion has basically ruined the 40k setting
Runners up are Angron (sounds like the just wanted his name to be 'Angry' but didn't want to sound stupid - guess it didn't work out).
and Alpharius Omegon (Not only is the Alpha - Omega thing SUPER tried at this point, but it's also a massive hole in the lore since there being "two" Primarchs for one legion just made things muddy).
Leman Russ is okay, since it at least sounds Nordic - but I think a name like Fenris would probably have suited the Primarch better. At the very least it's more original... I still don't like the wolves though.
Sanguinius was a fine name, but I don't like it because it's ties to "blood" and the subsequent ties of "blood" to "vampire". I think I speak collectively for the whole of western civilization when I say that if I never hear the word "Vampire" again it will be too soon. Can that fad please be over now?
The fact people make fun of Guillimans name is a fault of the people more than the name. It's French, and vaguely difficult to pronounce so people default to mockery.
And how did the Ultramarines ruin 40k..?
My first instinct when replying to this was just to write "I was being dramatic..." But then I realized that it really isn't that over-the-top of a position.
I think there are two factors that can really sway people about it - how long you've played the game, and what it is that you like about it?
I want to say right off the bat that there are no wrong answers here - a new player isn't entitled to anything more or less than a veteran player - and being a hobby means that you can enjoy it however you like.
But - they do still have an impact.
For me personally, I've played the game for a long time, and what I love most about it is the setting. I can roll dice at little miniatures in a pretty wide selection of tabletop wargames. 40k got my attention because of it's setting - it's style. The word "grimdark" is getting to be silly now. You only hear it from super-fans that sleep every night on top of a mountain of fanfic. But it's a good word that used to accurately describe the setting. It was grim - it was dark...
In 1st Edition the most heavily showcased minis (on the cover of the rulebook, in the art inside, and in the WD publications) were the Blood Angels. At the time there was none of the BS vampire crap about them, just that they were "the good guys". In 2nd ed little bits of 3rd - the iconography really shifted and the Dark Angels really got a lot of time in the sun (not literally). There was a lot of showcasing of Imperial Fists as well.
It wasn't until 3rd and 4th edition that the Ultras started taking over. They pretty much bulldozed over the other guys and started being the "featured" army in the rulebooks, the artwork, the publications, etc. Over time, this has actually altered the perception of Space Marines... no, when you think SM you probably think of that big blue mofo on the cover of the current codex. What SUCKS about this is that the Ultramarines are Ultra-boring. There is nothing grim or dark about them. Jokes about them being "every marine" have run their course - and the "Call of Duty 40k" jokes are less and less funny every time I hear/read them because they are really just the truth now.
And I suppose that this all still really isn't such a terrible thing - after all, the game is about choice right? I mean, if you don't like the grim dark stuff you can choose to play the blue man legion, and if you like the gothic stuff, you can always play the Dark Angels or whatever.
But wait... years and years of re-written codices by authors that apply a heavy handed bias towards the Ultramarines have reduced the other legions or footnotes!.
It sounds dramatic - and I suppose it is a little. It's game after all. But I don't think it's unfair to credit the Ultramarines with having a large role in the diminished "grimdark" in the setting. Which has been the strongest appeal for many.
I clearly have my own bias against them, and I think they are moving the "fluff" in a direction that I have less and less interest in - but even if I liked their legion, their Primarch still has a damn silly name!
Most of the Chapters have some social or historical significance in that they represent a particular culture. Khan is the best example - having a very clearly Mongolian name and being father to the chapter that almost exactly mirrors the Mongols of 4th Century.
Not all the name are that obvious, but they all either come from (or could be derived from) real world cultures and civilizations.
Roboute is just too easy to make fun of... come on "Raw Butt Girly Man"... it's so true!! Plus his legion has basically ruined the 40k setting
Runners up are Angron (sounds like the just wanted his name to be 'Angry' but didn't want to sound stupid - guess it didn't work out).
and Alpharius Omegon (Not only is the Alpha - Omega thing SUPER tried at this point, but it's also a massive hole in the lore since there being "two" Primarchs for one legion just made things muddy).
Leman Russ is okay, since it at least sounds Nordic - but I think a name like Fenris would probably have suited the Primarch better. At the very least it's more original... I still don't like the wolves though.
Sanguinius was a fine name, but I don't like it because it's ties to "blood" and the subsequent ties of "blood" to "vampire". I think I speak collectively for the whole of western civilization when I say that if I never hear the word "Vampire" again it will be too soon. Can that fad please be over now?
The fact people make fun of Guillimans name is a fault of the people more than the name. It's French, and vaguely difficult to pronounce so people default to mockery.
And how did the Ultramarines ruin 40k..?
My first instinct when replying to this was just to write "I was being dramatic..." But then I realized that it really isn't that over-the-top of a position.
I think there are two factors that can really sway people about it - how long you've played the game, and what it is that you like about it?
I want to say right off the bat that there are no wrong answers here - a new player isn't entitled to anything more or less than a veteran player - and being a hobby means that you can enjoy it however you like.
But - they do still have an impact.
For me personally, I've played the game for a long time, and what I love most about it is the setting. I can roll dice at little miniatures in a pretty wide selection of tabletop wargames. 40k got my attention because of it's setting - it's style. The word "grimdark" is getting to be silly now. You only hear it from super-fans that sleep every night on top of a mountain of fanfic. But it's a good word that used to accurately describe the setting. It was grim - it was dark...
In 1st Edition the most heavily showcased minis (on the cover of the rulebook, in the art inside, and in the WD publications) were the Blood Angels. At the time there was none of the BS vampire crap about them, just that they were "the good guys". In 2nd ed little bits of 3rd - the iconography really shifted and the Dark Angels really got a lot of time in the sun (not literally). There was a lot of showcasing of Imperial Fists as well.
It wasn't until 3rd and 4th edition that the Ultras started taking over. They pretty much bulldozed over the other guys and started being the "featured" army in the rulebooks, the artwork, the publications, etc. Over time, this has actually altered the perception of Space Marines... no, when you think SM you probably think of that big blue mofo on the cover of the current codex. What SUCKS about this is that the Ultramarines are Ultra-boring. There is nothing grim or dark about them. Jokes about them being "every marine" have run their course - and the "Call of Duty 40k" jokes are less and less funny every time I hear/read them because they are really just the truth now.
And I suppose that this all still really isn't such a terrible thing - after all, the game is about choice right? I mean, if you don't like the grim dark stuff you can choose to play the blue man legion, and if you like the gothic stuff, you can always play the Dark Angels or whatever.
But wait... years and years of re-written codices by authors that apply a heavy handed bias towards the Ultramarines have reduced the other legions or footnotes!.
It sounds dramatic - and I suppose it is a little. It's game after all. But I don't think it's unfair to credit the Ultramarines with having a large role in the diminished "grimdark" in the setting. Which has been the strongest appeal for many.
I clearly have my own bias against them, and I think they are moving the "fluff" in a direction that I have less and less interest in - but even if I liked their legion, their Primarch still has a damn silly name!
So, the writers ruined 40k then. I thought you meant in the fluff, the UM ruined everything.
This is in a way similar to Warmaster Horus, who tried overthrowing his father, though the Horus Heresy is more based after God/Lucifer rather than Ancient Egypt mythology.
It's probably that God/Lucifer are based on Ancient Egypt and Persian mythology.
This fething annoys me so much. I know that, back when it was used, it was a not-very-sly wink to the poet who wrote the Dark Angel about lashings of gayness lololol and no-one ever expected to ahve to take it seriously, but it's so hamfisted and jars with me a lot.
There is no evidence that Lionel Johnson was homosexual (repressed or otherwise).
Personally I'm fine with all the Primarch names. Though I guess, if I had to choose, it would probably be Ferrus Manus that I find silliest.
Poly Ranger wrote: To be fair I think GW made a decent job, making it that obvious where the names originated intentionally. I mean John Smith of the Emperors Children decapitating his old friend Petyr Dimitrov of the Iron Hands During the Ahmad heresy sounds a little bit gak.
Pfft. You say that, but the Horace Heresy would be a sweet story.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
En Excelsis wrote:My first instinct when replying to this was just to write "I was being dramatic..."
Should have stopped there. What followed this was even more over-dramatic.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/14 17:02:10
Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?
As much as I think the guy is awesome I'm gonna have to say Lion El'Jonson. Which language is it where Lion = Lion and Johnson = Forrest? That is pretty ridiculous.
Obviously El' could suffice for "of the" but Johnson means Forrest? Is that some sort of a dick joke involving wood?
Ya Avarage Finkin Man-
"Boys before toys but all my boy's toys are boys holding toys so can the toys before the boys really be boys with toys?"
-raving lunatic
I would have voted Angron, but I recently found out that was the name of an actual gladiator (thanks to Spartacus) so it was semi-redeemed in my eyes.
Seriously though - Lion'El Johnson? I think it's the Johnson that just makes him sound like "some dude". But all the primarch names are a little silly and heavy handed xD
Like many others i like a good dig at 'row-boat girlie-man' but despite my like of the dark angels 'Lion' as a first name must have sounded properly stupid on the knightly order planet of caliban
And his surname? oh, please. exactly how are you supposed to pronounce El'jonson? is the " EL' " bit suppposed to be a suggested sound like when yorkshiremen say "t'pub" instead of "the pub" or is " 'jonson " indicitive of plural ownership by 'El' ? it should have been hyphonated.
most stupid name by a big margin - embarresing background, hippy first name, grammatically incorrect surname and sounds like youre about to say 'Lionel Richie'
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..
Gashrog wrote: Lion'El Johnson because it was changed to make it so recognizable that nobody could miss it, originally he was named Lyyn Elgonsen.
....But it's still not silly at all. Leon Johnson would not make anyone bat an eye. Nor would Lionel Johnson. The only thing weird bout Lion El'Johnson is the El' part, but all it means is serving the same purpose as Von in German, De in French, Of in English, etc. A more direct version of the name in modern-day English would be Leon of Johnson or Lionel of Johnson, or for a more direct translation of his name's meaning in 40k, Leon Deforest.
All of which mean "Lion of the Forest" more or less in modern English and French. I mean seriously, you could totally run into a person named Leon Deforest and it would not be unique enough to even bat an eye at.
Agreed. Roboute Guilliman also isn't silly though. I sounds like a real name. Foreign to me, but real. Magnus the Red is a viking name. There are so many sillier than those too, but I guess it's subjective
Sanguinius was a fine name, but I don't like it because it's ties to "blood" and the subsequent ties of "blood" to "vampire". I think I speak collectively for the whole of western civilization when I say that if I never hear the word "Vampire" again it will be too soon. Can that fad please be over now?
I thought that fad actually was over and we had all moved on to zombies?
Yes "they" have ruined zombies for me now
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/21 14:20:20
Ferrus Manus' name makes me cringe every time I see it. It's one of the most blatant examples of Dog Latin in the entire 40k universe. I'm not entirely sure what the proper Latin grammar would be, but I know "ferrum" is the base form of "iron" and that it would have to be conjugated to be descriptive of the "manus". I believe that would be "manus ferri" or something similar. "Ferrus Manus" translates to something like "the iron the hand".
Also, why would people whine about Sanguinius' name having ties to vampires? There are canon BA models with POINTED FANGS. It's their motif, for crying out loud. I'm also surprised at how many votes Lion El'Jonson got, though I suppose that could be fanboy bias on my part. Having studied linguistics, it's a pretty reasonable corruption/evolution of Leon Johnson/Leon DeForest/Leon DuBois or what have you. I also get pretty sick of hearing about Lionel Johnson's homosexuality in relation to the setting. Not because the idea offends me, but because it has nothing to do with its role in inspiring the chapter background. People only choose to snipe about that part because they childishly find gay stuff funny; the poem is probably about his sexuality and alcoholism in equal measure, and you don't hear the latter brought up very much, at least not in this context. Regardless of what inspired the real-life author, if you actually read the work, it goes well with the I Legion's theme of haunting irredeemable guilt.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/22 20:09:57
Brennonjw wrote: Perturabo, becuase I can never pronounce his name right for some reason.
Oh man, Iron Warriors are my favorite hands down but I cannot get that name... I like to just call him "Turbo Peter". Uses mostly the same letters... and is easier to remember.
jakejackjake wrote: Agreed. Roboute Guilliman also isn't silly though. I sounds like a real name. Foreign to me, but real.
Real names can sound silly. Years ago I remember a local politician running for state senate, his name was Dick Swett. I actually don't even think Guilliman's name sounds silly but, just sayin'.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/23 16:21:44
And here I thought the DA primarch eas named ofter the model train company. Well, I will just keep calling him Lion-o.
"Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it? The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The Wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always!" —Jago Sevatarion
DR:80SGMB--I--Pw40k01#-D++++A+/fWD-R++T(T)DM+
jakejackjake wrote: Agreed. Roboute Guilliman also isn't silly though. I sounds like a real name. Foreign to me, but real.
Real names can sound silly. Years ago I remember a local politician running for state senate, his name was Dick Swett. I actually don't even think Guilliman's name sounds silly but, just sayin'.
Yes but your example does not sound like a real name and he is an idiot for going by "Dick" instead of Rich
~2800 points 
