Just curious on how people are taking and if many are buying into the replacement for Warhammer Fantasy. Recently, my store ordered a ton of the AOS starter sets, and to put it bluntly, in the last 2x weeks, only 3x boxes out of 20x have been sold. Now obviously this could be due to the fact of a lack of rules, however from what I have seen, many are refusing to by into the AOS as they see it as GW being lazy and that it is no longer Warhammer Fantasy at all. Things could change, but as it stands, AOS is bombing hard in my area at this time, which has me feeling 50/50 on it.

How have things been for AOS in your area? Not wanting to turn this into a hate post, but the lack of interest in my area definitely is playing a part for me and many players to even get started, and I was just curious on how the AOS is being taken in other areas.

Many of my gaming group have dusted off their fantasy models to try it out, and even I admit I'm pleased with the rules for Tomb Kings and would like to play more. But, A lot of us aren't buying more models, and I know I won't be. I want to wait and see what direction AoS takes, and if my army will still matter in the months to come. That, and me and some friends of mine would just rather play 40k most of the time, as that at least has a balancing factor to it.

Well I bought 2 boxes, haven't played yet, still putting them together, also in doing so found out I was missing a hero sprue, the big guy on the horse for sigmar and one of the choas, thankfully GW customer support is amazing and is sending me one! My local store had 4 copies and 2 were bought, and next weekend when my sets are together ill be holding a game night to introduce it to people. Me and the girlfriend are huge into LOTR because of the easy to learn rules, both of us with 3 armies well over 3000 points each, so we are naturally gonna love this game.

I played 40k for my entire childhood, but with 2 little ones and a very busy life, AOS is perfect for us and all of our gaming group. I'd say we have about 4 others buying sets this week, so its looking good in my area!

There is no interest at all in my club, although a few of us are thinking about starting Kings of War.

There's decent interest in buying the starter at my FLGS. Haven't heard nearly as much interest about actually playing it, however. The general opinion is that the models look great and that they are worth owning even if the game they are actually for leaves something to be desired.

I have three FLGS in a 20 mile radius of where I live and 0 GW Stores. I went to all three to check it out.

Two of the stores decided to stock Age of Sigmar, one store didn't even stock it.

None of them had a demo box or any noticeable promotion for Age of Sigmar. It didn't seem like anyone really cared about Age of Sigmar, besides one guy who was playing Warhammer 40k who talked to me empathetically about "how much it sucks."

We are growing in my area - some players have been interested in Fantasy but didn't feel they had the time or money to invest so heavily. Now that its possible to start off cheaper and easier they are about to join in.

there must of been 30-40 box sets that ive seen sold in our flgs and ive seen about 12 people either buy whole new army's or just adding to there collection (usually things that no had before because they used to suck and now they don't)

Nothing here. Nobody wants to spend a few hundred dollars on rubbish.

I think one person wanted to try it but got no bites.

The day the rules leaked everyone had a laugh about it, but thats about as much interest as I have seen. All the old Fantasy players are back to Fantasy or KoW.

My local game shop sold 90 boxes on release day. Both my local gw's sold out over release weekend and since then its selling steadily for new and old players. Apart from some if the naysayers that think they know it all the game is full of possibilities, tactics, strategy. Unfortunately some people need their hand held to play games

My area no longer has a store of any kind, so it's... hard to tell.

I haven't bought the box set, and don't plan to. So I guess the answer is "poorly".

I've seen boxsets at the store I go to. There seems to be some interest over it...I mean, it's a shake-up of a product with 30 years of history, so that's obviously going to be the case.

I think people are still quite hesitant. Not knowing what was going on with WHFB was like the Great Recession in the U.S. in that everyone is really unsure what the future is going to look like, and investment is a risky venture.

 Accolade wrote:
I've seen boxsets at the store I go to. There seems to be some interest over it...I mean, it's a shake-up of a product with 30 years of history, so that's obviously going to be the case.

I think people are still quite hesitant. Not knowing what was going on with WHFB was like the Great Recession in the U.S. in that everyone is really unsure what the future is going to look like, and investment is a risky venture.

That's the mood I have been picking up on for the most part. Lots of people are interested in how they changed the game, however many people are hesitant to start it as there is no point system to speak of whatsoever and not many people are huge fans of the fact they basically turned Warhammer Fantasy into war machine in a lot of ways.

One store (smartly) has a box open for everyone to gawk at the contents. Incidentally, they have a single copy of the WD with the free mini that they are selling for $25 LOL.

Of the 3 stores that I frequent, I think they all sold about half their inventory, and all of them sold their copies of the book from this week pretty quickly (none brought many in).

As I don't game in the store, I have no idea what people are doing with those boxes. All I see at the indie stories right now are a zillion people buying Magic cards and playing MtG, as it was a release week.

 Motograter wrote:
Apart from some if the naysayers that think they know it all the game is full of possibilities, tactics, strategy. Unfortunately some people need their hand held to play games

Heh

Super popular with all the regulars either starting new armies or adding "allies" to their existing armies. Great fun!

 Motograter wrote:
.Apart from some if the naysayers that think they know it all the game is full of possibilities, tactics, strategy. Unfortunately some people need their hand held to play games

It's a GW game using d6. Tactics and strategy really don't enter it. Try 'list-building and luck'

It isnt......

 Soteks Prophet wrote:

 Motograter wrote:
.Apart from some if the naysayers that think they know it all the game is full of possibilities, tactics, strategy. Unfortunately some people need their hand held to play games

It's a GW game using d6. Tactics and strategy really don't enter it. Try 'list-building and luck'

Its actually collection building now, get with the times man

Tactics in this absolutely do not matter. Only what you bring to the table.

My store got 50, sold 5

I spoke with my FLGS who told me they had been talking to other stores and distributors in central and upper Wisconsin. They told me that sales have been steady regarding fantasy stuff. No increase and no decrease in sales or interest.

I never got into fantasy as I have been super invested in 40k for the past 16+ years. I had purchased one or two fantasy models as I thought they looked cool. AOS seems great for someone like me who is interested in playing some fantasy, had no major investment in a previous edition, and can play what I want to buy... no force charts, etc.

Oh and my very large 40k demon army with circular bases just became much more useful!!!

Not a whole lot fo the box sets sold at mine, but people are playing the rules and trying it out. Most people are open to it, but we had a small WHFB group before. I bought 2 boxes, becuase lets be honest, its a freaking deal. Espically with the price point of Liberators being $50 and the set comes with 2 boxes for $125. So you get all of the other models in the box for $25!!!!

These threads are always disappointing for me, no FLGS within a hundred miles and no wargaming except what I manage to get my RPG buddies to do...

That said, Age of Sigmar is going over well here, the ratio of AoS players to wargamers is amazing

Personally, I just picked up some Sigmarites and the starter book on Ebay, they're gonna get a Gunmetal and Crimson scheme to team up with my Hochlanders.

Looked like significant depletion in stock from last week to this week.

Hard to judge. Don't know if there were any new new people starting it, but the starter boxs were sold. People that played WFB before AoS don't play it. The fact that there are auto win armies that can't be beaten and that all games end in a mosh pit in the middle don't help the game much. Also the random is too strong for most people liking here. We always ignored the special terrain rules, because they were stupid, now they have to be rolled and even more terrain is used. It just drags the game to be longer, with fewer models. People don't like the turn activation either as sides with super melee characters can clear too much of an opposing army in a single turn.

I think my local GW store sold only a few copies, the local club seems to have ignored it entirely in favor of highly competitive 40k and bolt action, one FLGS has an open copy but little interest and the other doesn't stock GW at all.


More telling than any of that is that the largest FLGS in the entier southern hemisphere who posts pics of the pallets of stock any time they get new stock or a restock have AoS listed on their website as out of stock but made no mention of it anywhere on Facebook and don't seem to have actually stocked any to begin with. They posted a restock of Spartan Games a few days before, a PP restock too, and they were MASSIVE, but not one word about AoS. I legitimately do not know if they ever actually got any.

Local store sold 2 copies so far, no club I know is interested in it.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Soteks Prophet wrote:

 Motograter wrote:
.Apart from some if the naysayers that think they know it all the game is full of possibilities, tactics, strategy. Unfortunately some people need their hand held to play games

It's a GW game using d6. Tactics and strategy really don't enter it. Try 'list-building and luck'

Its actually collection building now, get with the times man

Tactics in this absolutely do not matter. Only what you bring to the table.

Yes but then I'm not 3 years old and a complete tool. Shame some of the folks on here seem to be since AoS release

Well, I think there are quite a few players in our gaming group who are willing to get into AoS.
Some guys have reservations such as Oldhammer and WMH veterans.

My local GW store hasn't sold many, aside the one guy who will buy anything and everything from them I don't know anyone who has bought one.

There is an open copy on the front but not many people play it. Most of my friends were interested in seeing what it was about, but after hearing about from the one game I played, they didn't like it and don't have an interest.

Only reason I'll buy Fantasy models now is for 40k conversions but even then I'm put off 40k given how lazy GW were on this IMO.

My friend even showed the Skaven/Kairos T1 win list to the store manager and he wasn't happy and nearly barred my mate from the store.

36 starter boxes sold at my store. It is pretty exciting all the new people.

Just a random GW in Dallas, Texas.

Great thread. I don't think it's doing well in my FLGS yet.

Context - I believe my FLGS caters almost entirely to existing or returning WHFB and 40k players. It gained some new players via games like Bolt Action, tried to do the same with Batman: the Miniatures Game, which I've never seen anyone actually play outside of demo games (but maybe people wandering by may pick up a single DC comics miniature out of curiousity).

For Age of Sigmar, they've dedicated one demo table to an open box display, they're helping players learn the game, having a realistic approach, acknowledging it's a different type of game than previous WHFB, etc. Doing the smart things and doing it diligently, the staff was very helpful (they're always very helpful), printing out all the war scrolls, passing them out, etc.

In terms of playing Age of Sigmar, I recall last week when I played a friend, people were piping in with comments and complaints, there were workarounds to the model-count balance issue with Wounds, lots of discussion, lots of debate. Today, with the release of the AoS book...nothing. No more talk.

To compare, it used to be WHFB was actually bigger than 40k in my FLGS. WHFB was generally seen as the deeper strategy game, 40k was basically a skirmish games with too many miniatures. Of course we had 40k players, but it was like groups of friends who played each other rather than a huge scene. However, today...the busiest gaming day of the week...I think every table was playing 40k, no AoS.

Regarding sales, units are moving, but I'm not sure it's at a healthy rate. There's a painting table where it's a few regulars and whenever there's a new codex, those guys will buy something from it, and paint it right there at the shop. I should be seeing stacks of AoS there, everyone spraying that new gold paint, if this was a normal release. They're NOT doing that, which in itself is a telltale sign.

The most common usage for the AoS boxed set was for conversion into 40k armies, as mentioned above.

---

All in all, not a great sign IMHO, at least not at the rate it should be for a major product release. The worst part is how quiet AoS has become.

They say no news is good news. I work in Sales & Marketing and IMHO no news is bad news. When people have got a gripe with your product, it means they at least care enough about it to complain. They did that last week, and now, even that complaining (which gamers love to do) has gotten boring.

And this is during the weekend the AoS lore book just landed. People should be flipping through it to say how it's awesome/stupid. I'm now thinking the only thing worse than the rage is the indifference people feel towards AoS now.

No stores in my area have sold any boxes. They all still have the same boxes they ordered on release. Fantasy was pretty much dead in my area so it's no surprise

Looks like my FLGS is sold out as of 30 minutes ago, with a bit of a backlog built up (I was told it could be as many as 3 weeks before I see the big book I ordered today).

Our group has always been a mix of 40k-ers and Fantasy-ers, with Fantasy being a small subset. We had four 40k folks watch the end of one of our games and 3 have expressed interest in AoS, wondering why GW had not done this sooner.

Just another data point for those who care

It is going pretty decent here. I can't really understand how people see this as GW being lazy. The lazy thing would have been to chage a few paragraphs in the old book and release 9th edition that way. Now they saw that fantasy was dying and decided to do a rewamp. The one thing I could disagree on is why the birth of AoS had to be the death of old fantasy.

My area hasn't really embraced it. Some have tried and liked it, a lot of guys are really hurt over it (one guy suggested Kings of War, but another really hates that game). I think 8th will stick around.

I wanted to get into Fantasy, with Beastmen. But I don't know what direction GW is taking. It'd be easier for me to invest in an army if they had some sort of 'future look' on their company. But for now, they aren't getting my dime until they show what's up'

 3AcresAndATau wrote:
These threads are always disappointing for me, no FLGS within a hundred miles and no wargaming except what I manage to get my RPG buddies to do...

That said, Age of Sigmar is going over well here, the ratio of AoS players to wargamers is amazing

Personally, I just picked up some Sigmarites and the starter book on Ebay, they're gonna get a Gunmetal and Crimson scheme to team up with my Hochlanders.

DOH. You should open up a gaming store. You would do great, with no competitors in a 2 hour drive!!!

My area took al of two weeks to move on. There was interest the first day the rules leaked, with people trying out existing armies. Then on launch till now they have only sold 5 boxes.

Honestly, its the piss poor rules. We like rules that are fluid and make sense. And the only reason people play 40k here still is because they all have armies they have had for 5+ years. Hardly anyone buys new anymore.

I really cant stress enough how GW flushed their new opportunity down the drain by simply not investing any time money or effort into the actual game half of their game.

 Frozocrone wrote:

Only reason I'll buy Fantasy models now is for 40k conversions but even then I'm put off 40k given how lazy GW were on this IMO.

Thats my intent too the new models look great for Blood angel terminator conversions hell its actually rekindled my interest in considering collecting Blood angels just to finally have the army I originally wanted with basically most models looking like Sanguinary Guard.

A couple boxes sold at my FLGS.

Mostly it's regulars split-buying them. Chaos players love new marauders and warriors while others like mahreens in shineh armour.

But yeah, most people wait to see if competitive rules come out, if not - they'll stick to 8th, although I see that after all those years there's a bit of a wear on those ultra-competitive players. A lot of them are buying into new systems looking for something new and this is a perfect occasion for them, especially if they don't like new rules and big changes.

That being said, a lot of my friends are interested in trying it out as it's something new and fancy, but yeah, waiting for any kind of balance.

0 boxes sold so far. It's doing terribly over here. We all got together to make fun of the rules on Facebook. One of the guys was saying he wanted to play fantasy still, so he was looking at KOW. Now a few of us are playing KOW, around 5.

Sadly it seems like AOS aint gunna happen around here.

In my small group, no one cares enough to drive an hour or so to the nearest FLGS that caries GW stuff to look at the new models in person let alone buy any of the new stuff. There's a few people that I haven't seen that might have a different view but... probably not.

I doubt I'd ever get another game of it again... don't really care either.

"There doesn't seem to be any interest in it," is the direct quote from my FLGS. I know two guys that bought one to split and one that bought some to convert to 40k. That's about it in my area.

Well this is getting depressing.

Local GW sold 3 copies. Local FLGS wasn't supplied.

Orangecoke wrote:
Well this is getting depressing.

Unless you want it to fail spectacularly. Like I do!

Went to a GW in one of the bigger cities, literally everyone crowded in the 40k section, playing, painting, talking. I wandered around fantasy simply because it was so empty. nobody was buying anything AoS. Even the staff didn't feel the need to try to sell it to me.

My group downloaded the rules, read them, and decided that if we wanted to play skirmish games we'd all be playing Warmahordes.

8th lives on in St. Louis, and we look forward to seeing what the various 8.5 projects bring.

 Commissar Molotov wrote:

Orangecoke wrote:
Well this is getting depressing.

Unless you want it to fail spectacularly. Like I do!

To what end? Kill off Fantasy / models from GW?

Fantasy is already dead - they killed it. Let AoS join it.

 Commissar Molotov wrote:
Fantasy is already dead - they killed it. Let AoS join it.

lol you're so broken on the inside

My GW is down to 3 starters from the 20 they got last week. Said that there has been a lot of people coming in and buying up fantasy, both new and old players

Only people that play Fantasy when my group plays is us, 40k is still the more heavily played of the two games. But that's in store.

Orangecoke wrote:
Well this is getting depressing.

Eh, it is what it is. Were AOS coming out from any other gaming company, I think the fate would be similar. The problem is GW has bought too much into its own BS, consequences of a systemic yes-man culture that has been poisoning their releases for years now. Sad that this is what things are coming to, but it's their (aka the management) decision.

[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]

I'm quite curious what you found so offensive about my post that you had to spew verbal hatred. Considering that Mark Wells over at GW is quoted as saying GW's customers engage in the "hobby of purchasing Citadel miniatures," I think it's a fair statement to say a miskewed sense of their own grandiosity has caused them to make some of the changes that will prevent a lot of people from joining in.

But then, I never understand these new posters who pop out of nowhere and start insulting others over a plastic miniatures game. I get you're passionate about AOS, but maybe try attacking the argument rather than the poster, eh?

 Accolade wrote:

Orangecoke wrote:
Well this is getting depressing.

Eh, it is what it is. Were AOS coming out from any other gaming company, I think the fate would be similar. The problem is GW has bought too much into its own BS, consequences of a systemic yes-man culture that has been poisoning their releases for years now. Sad that this is what things are coming to, but it's their (aka the management) decision.

I'm sorry your feelings got hurt and you needed to report my response. But I'm going to say it again with a politically correct spin. Your obviously a new tabletop gamer with that opinion. GW, and many other companies, never started off with a "balanced" and "tournament" approach to gaming. They made cool miniatures and then they made a game to use them. For me, and many others, they are returning to their roots. And I love it. If you don't like it, there are plenty of other forums to spread negativity on.

One guy in our group bought the starter for models and bits.
According to the store owner, nobody else has touched one since.

It seems like a large portion of sales are going to people who simply want Space Marines to have a slightly different aesthetic. Too bad GW doesn't do any market research otherwise they might have found out that they could have just released a few new Space Marine kits with a different aesthetic and gotten the same number of sales

TRIGSTEN wrote:
Your obviously a new tabletop gamer with that opinion.

Funny, in my experience that's the view of a vet who's been burned by GW three or four times too many.

TRIGSTEN wrote:
GW, and many other companies, never started off with a "balanced" and "tournament" approach to gaming. They made cool miniatures and then they made a game to use them. For me, and many others, they are returning to their roots. And I love it. If you don't like it, there are plenty of other forums to spread negativity on.

Funny thing, GW actually seem to be the only ones not trying to balance their games. Kings of War, Infinity, Warmachine, ALL of GWs competition are either renowned for their ability to be used as a tournament game or at least puts in effort to make a fair game.

As for those other forums, the great thing about Dakka is all opinions are welcome here as long as no one insults each other. Why would anyone want to go anywhere else?

TRIGSTEN wrote:

 Accolade wrote:

Orangecoke wrote:
Well this is getting depressing.

Eh, it is what it is. Were AOS coming out from any other gaming company, I think the fate would be similar. The problem is GW has bought too much into its own BS, consequences of a systemic yes-man culture that has been poisoning their releases for years now. Sad that this is what things are coming to, but it's their (aka the management) decision.

I'm sorry your feelings got hurt and you needed to report my response. But I'm going to say it again with a politically correct spin. Your obviously a new tabletop gamer with that opinion. GW, and many other companies, never started off with a "balanced" and "tournament" approach to gaming. They made cool miniatures and then they made a game to use them. For me, and many others, they are returning to their roots. And I love it. If you don't like it, there are plenty of other forums to spread negativity on.

Good lord, you think highly of yourself. I didn't have to report you, you would have been edited regardless. If you can't make a post without being insulting to another person over a game of plastic toys, then you will get nowhere here. It's a simple as that. I've never understood this group of posters who scream about negativity, all the while being the absolute worst offenders of inflicting it. You're a brand new poster, with no grasp of dakka rules (or common courtesy for that matter), and you can't seem to just go after the argument rather than the person themselves. I could go on about how I've played GW games since the old Bretonnian vs. Lizardmen set, but that doesn't change the qualification that if you want to talk to people on dakka, attacking them directly is not the correct manner.

Am I getting this through? That you're seething over getting moderated (it's not like I have any control over the mods) makes me think I'm talking to a teenager who is upset that I don't have the same opinion of GW's new game.

Are you going to try to deal with the actual argument? Mark Wells thinks your main purpose with GW is to engage in purchasing their models. Do you agree with this? Do you think this sentiment is incorrect? Is it toxic to the health of the company? Might it have some impact, that someone so intimately in control of GW, would have this opinion of his customer base. And shape the game he helps sell correspondingly?

 jonolikespie wrote:

TRIGSTEN wrote:
Your obviously a new tabletop gamer with that opinion.

Funny, in my experience that's the view of a vet who's been burned by GW three or four times too many.

TRIGSTEN wrote:
GW, and many other companies, never started off with a "balanced" and "tournament" approach to gaming. They made cool miniatures and then they made a game to use them. For me, and many others, they are returning to their roots. And I love it. If you don't like it, there are plenty of other forums to spread negativity on.

Funny thing, GW actually seem to be the only ones not trying to balance their games. Kings of War, Infinity, Warmachine, ALL of GWs competition are either renowned for their ability to be used as a tournament game or at least puts in effort to make a fair game.

As for those other forums, the great thing about Dakka is all opinions are welcome here as long as no one insults each other. Why would anyone want to go anywhere else?

You are correct, new companies like Warmachine, started with the premise of making a game, and then creating miniatures to use in it. Very different from GW. Obviously this suits many people who are loving Warmachine. And thats fine. Its also equally fine to love GW philosophy. I don't agree that constant negative opinions are "welcome" unless they are constructive. Which his was not.

Selling REALLY well at my FLGS. The fantasy crowd is eating it up for the most part.

TRIGSTEN wrote:
I don't agree that constant negative opinions are "welcome" unless they are constructive. Which his was not.

Then I am glad you don't get to set the rules for this site. If you want a forum where everyone agrees with you try BOLS, personally I can't stand the idea of Dakka turning into a place where certain opinions are unwelcome for no reason other than someone considers them 'wrong'.

 jonolikespie wrote:

TRIGSTEN wrote:
I don't agree that constant negative opinions are "welcome" unless they are constructive. Which his was not.

Then I am glad you don't get to set the rules for this site. If you want a forum where everyone agrees with you try BOLS, personally I can't stand the idea of Dakka turning into a place where certain opinions are unwelcome for no reason other than someone considers them 'wrong'.

That is not what I said or meant.

A negative opinion is still an opinion, and therefore should be welcome.

 jonolikespie wrote:
A negative opinion is still an opinion, and therefore should be welcome.

Completely agree, the best part of this website is that there are a whole bunch of people with different opinions on the same thing. But, we can still talk like adults and see each other's point of view and have a healthy debate, instead of just being keyboard warrior cheese dicks spewing hate at each other. If people want to just attack each other like pre-teens, that is what Myspace is for.

And we can also stay on topic.

at my big FLGS, it seems to be still finding its legs. Some players are investing time and effort in it, others are finding new games. At the 2nd FLGS, I'm not sure. I have heard that the local GW store (man, I'm lucky to live in an area w/ such a big tabletop gaming community...) has been really busy w/ players who are enjoying AoS (no, it wasn't the redshirt that told me that lol). I was there last weekend for a quick minute and there were a few players playing AoS and few hobbyists just hanging out.

Not sure about sales in the local stores (one store has dropped GW entirely though) or how many members of the other clubs in the area have picked it up but in my small club so far all we've really done is take the piss out of GW and groan about a lot of the changes. To be fair though we will be giving AoS a go tomorrow evening. If we enjoy the game that's great, if not we simply don't play it again and play something we do enjoy.

I have been in several GWs recently. They all have plenty of boxes on the shelves, which is what I should have expected because they want to sell it after all.

Some of them were running demo games with variable success. The most successful was a game involving the boxed set models plus some WHFB models, with a redshirt versus a young lad about 11-12 years old. That is I think the key target market and he seemed to be enjoying it.

The other demo game was two 30-ish guys who did not seem to be having much of a good time with the basic set. They were playing happily enough but there wasn't an atmosphere of great fun and enjoyment so much as going through the game as a tactical exercise.

I was surprised that none of the GW shops had painted their models nicely. They had done a sketchy spray or gold or red over them, and a bit of detailing like white wings on the flying Sigmarines.

There was a big following of Fantasy in group, but that's instantly vanished.
Hardly any AOS interest, most are pretty disgusted by the death of Fantasy. Kings of War is popping up in its place.

On the painting, the Redshirts probably just haven't had time to get them painted up nicely given they would have been given little warning or prep time for the release and most of them are in 1 man stores now where finding time to paint minis themselves is probably pretty difficult.

That and the turnover of staff may mean that the guys selling the miniatures are not as into the hobby side of things as they used to be. I've also noticed pretty bad painting on lots of the store miniatures I have seen (I've checked 3 GWs by now)

about 20 people in my group, we tried it and all we are doing is laughing at the lonely guy that likes the sigmarites because looks like Sanguinary guard but NOT like space marines.
KoW or 8.5th is all we play and i'm happy like that.
If i wanted to play a game with 4 pages rulebook I'd play battleship.

I've heard absolutely no response to AoS from my uni's board games society. Didn't have a massive fantasy crowd as it was, but the 40K following was big. We won't know if there's been any traction at all until the new term, but the prognostications for it so far are grim.

For comparison, ME got some love during the KS campaign. I've got a few players lined up eager to try it.

Freshers in the new term could change everything though.

Not sure how many of you remember 1985 when new coke came out ( yes I am old). It was a flop and angered their loyal customers. AoS is the new coke all over again

 Chute82 wrote:
Not sure how many of you remember 1985 when new coke came out ( yes I am old). It was a flop and angered their loyal customers. AoS is the new coke all over again

Man, I hope so - because that fiasco ended with them scrapping "New Coke" and bringing back the old formula.

...I ain't holding my breath, though.

 Chute82 wrote:
Not sure how many of you remember 1985 when new coke came out ( yes I am old). It was a flop and angered their loyal customers. AoS is the new coke all over again

Except, if this flops no coke classic will be coming and if it does well we get New 40K.

Stopped by my local Games Workshop today (GASP), because my normal store didn't get it's WD77 this week.

There was actually a table of a couple of people playing AoS, and the store was busier than I think I've ever seen it -- a dozen plus customers inside. One of 'em was going to check out with an AoS box in his arms.

They also had good pots of Mephiston Red, yay. Stores I have been visiting have been getting these chunky, really thick pots of Mephiston that are only good to be thinned for Airbrush (because you get WAY more airbrush paint out of thick paint than thin).

The store-painted AoS models were not worthy, lol. They should have painted a whole bunch in Nottingham and sent them out. I mean, they weren't TERRIBLE, but certainly not anything remotely close to what you'd see in a White Dwarf/Visions/Box art. A mediocre paint job on a Lord Celestant as a "showpiece" model makes me want to cry.

 Commissar Molotov wrote:

 Chute82 wrote:
Not sure how many of you remember 1985 when new coke came out ( yes I am old). It was a flop and angered their loyal customers. AoS is the new coke all over again

Man, I hope so - because that fiasco ended with them scrapping "New Coke" and bringing back the old formula.

...I ain't holding my breath, though.

The thing about new coke.....its the current coke. What they did is slowly change the formula over the years, for the same reason they changed it originally. Not because it tasted better, but because it was cheaper. Look at a can of coke today and compare ingredients to a can from 1983. I guarantee you its FAR closer to the original new coke recipient than the original coke. And all they had to do to trick everyone was to do it gradually without telling you.

 Talys wrote:

The store-painted AoS models were not worthy, lol. They should have painted a whole bunch in Nottingham and sent them out. I mean, they weren't TERRIBLE, but certainly not anything remotely close to what you'd see in a White Dwarf/Visions/Box art. A mediocre paint job on a Lord Celestant as a "showpiece" model makes me want to cry.

Given what was written in the last semi-annual, I have a feeling they're getting rid of "hobby" oriented employees for "profit" oriented employees. Air quotes because the two aren't mutually exclusive, but I imagine GW wants their managers to focus on selling rather than painting (even if the painting might draw someone into the game).

Edit: Alternatively your standards are too high

So like anything. Its either not selling or is. Lol. Its not gonna die anytime soon. GW have put money into it. They will give it a few years. Rumours suggest this has been gw's idea for years and now that they've had the chance to do it they went for it. Look how many years they kept old fantasy going for. Anyone thinking gw is just gonna drop AoS anytime in the near future is gonne be in for a wait

 Motograter wrote:
So like anything. Its either not selling or is. Lol. Its not gonna die anytime soon. GW have put money into it. They will give it a few years. Rumours suggest this has been gw's idea for years and now that they've had the chance to do it they went for it. Look how many years they kept old fantasy going for. Anyone thinking gw is just gonna drop AoS anytime in the near future is gonne be in for a wait

I seriously doubt that fantasy is going away, however if Age of Sigmar does not perform, it is possible that they might keep it as a skirmish based game to learn the rules so to speak and bring back the old structure for Warhammer Fantasy. While I do like what the new version brings in some ways, this is not fantasy and honestly I enjoyed the older style and structure a lot better than this. Sad thing to is that there really wasn't anything wrong with the old game with the exception of some rules and magic being a bit too strong.

I thought a number of the original rumor mongers (the ones who broke Sigmarines back in January) mentioned that GW has specific quotas it expects to sell, and should they not meet a certain threshold, the game will be removed entirely (aka no more Warhammer anything).

 Ironwolf45 wrote:

 Motograter wrote:
So like anything. Its either not selling or is. Lol. Its not gonna die anytime soon. GW have put money into it. They will give it a few years. Rumours suggest this has been gw's idea for years and now that they've had the chance to do it they went for it. Look how many years they kept old fantasy going for. Anyone thinking gw is just gonna drop AoS anytime in the near future is gonne be in for a wait

I seriously doubt that fantasy is going away, however if Age of Sigmar does not perform, it is possible that they might keep it as a skirmish based game to learn the rules so to speak and bring back the old structure for Warhammer Fantasy. While I do like what the new version brings in some ways, this is not fantasy and honestly I enjoyed the older style and structure a lot better than this. Sad thing to is that there really wasn't anything wrong with the old game with the exception of some rules and magic being a bit too strong.

Not sure that's the case....

- if AoS fails, it's not really clear to me that GW would bring back the old form of WFB. They killed it for a reason: it doesn't sell. Internally at GW, someone would have to make one hell of a strong business case to get it brought back. I don't think they would be able to justify it on a spreadsheet per se.

- WFB had a lot wrong with it in terms of being a vibrant business that sells well (ie like 40K or Warmachine), more than just a few rules and an over-strong magic phase. Sure I enjoyed a few games of 8th, but evidently the barrier to entry was too high and existing vets weren't buying enough stuff.

If AoS fails I think GW would basically sell just 40K and the odd spot release like the Assassin board game, Space Hulk etc. And that might mean closing their stores and going direct only.

It's the reasons above that have me hoping AoS succeeds - because I really, really like GW fantasy models. Can't stand Mantic's for example. Privateers are nice and honestly if they went hard/sprue plastic I think they would deal GW a serious blow - I think their lousy plastic material and metal models hold them back tbh.

Anyway, I'm rambling lol.

Like a nurgle plague in a nursing home.

It's doing fine at my GW store, new players are in, old players have returned(like me) a few 40k players have joined in as well... But its far too early to tell...

 Achaylus72 wrote:
Like a nurgle plague in a nursing home.

So everyone has it and is giving thanks to Papa Nurgle for the gift!

I'm not sure your analogy works quite like you thought it would....or does?

Hard to tell at my FLGS....

Gaming comes and goes in waves. First it was Fantasy and everyone was playing it. Then it was 40k, then X-Wing, then Spoils, then Warmahordes, then Bloodbowl, then Dreadball, then... you get the idea.

Several people have tried AoS and like it, including myself. We can play with anything from our collections and not have to worry about points and percentages and 6 hour marathon games. And that might be why many of us like it. We have large collections of older models and kits. All we had to do was print the rules and our warscrolls

However, it's the new shiny. So who knows how long interest will last. Right now we are on week two of a four week 40k escalation campaign so that's where everyone's money and time is focused.

If the shop owner figures out a way to run a campaign then interest will probably pick up and steamroll all the other games for a while because his customers are flash in the pan kinda people.

Stopped in a local game store yesterday that I haven't been to in about 2 years. The store has a largish playing space with multiple tables.

They'd sold out of the hardback AoS book, but also hadn't ordered very many.

What was interesting though was that the staff told me that peo-ple rarely played WFB in their store prior to AoS (40k is much more popular). So, in their view AoS was doing no worse than WFB did and at least has an upside whereas WFB was essentially moribund.

 SilverDevilfish wrote:

 Talys wrote:

The store-painted AoS models were not worthy, lol. They should have painted a whole bunch in Nottingham and sent them out. I mean, they weren't TERRIBLE, but certainly not anything remotely close to what you'd see in a White Dwarf/Visions/Box art. A mediocre paint job on a Lord Celestant as a "showpiece" model makes me want to cry.

Given what was written in the last semi-annual, I have a feeling they're getting rid of "hobby" oriented employees for "profit" oriented employees. Air quotes because the two aren't mutually exclusive, but I imagine GW wants their managers to focus on selling rather than painting (even if the painting might draw someone into the game).

Edit: Alternatively your standards are too high

I don't think his standards are too high. The display models should be tabletop at the very least, or high tabletop to whet the appetite of the customers. I went to the flagship bunker store in Toronto and the general level of the display models has deteriorated since GW's heyday. Surprisingly, there were some unpainted models here and there in the display cabinets as well.

Lot of local stores in the area seemed to have moved a decent amount (not sure on their initial order size). Local facebook game groups seem excited. Local GW was apparently swamped on release weekend according to people on those same groups. We've got 2 slow grow/escalation leagues starting in the next two weeks. Overall it's more action/movement than I seen in Fantasy in a long, long time.

In the US with single man operations it is hard to run a store and paint multiple armies when you are the only staffer. Some succeed, others fail miserably.

In my area one store didn't even carry AoS, but has a growing group of Kings of War players who are old WHFB players who wanted to play a better game.

The main GW focused store in my area has sold a few, but even the owners think the game is junk without a lot of effort put into balancing and fixing it first.

So in general a whole lot of Meh around here.

Haven't had a chance to make it into my local, but they only got 4 boxes in (one was mine). My friend's store in NY also only got 4 boxes. And other stores I've stopped at while on the road for work said it really hasn't picked up any traction. So between 5 different stores, 2 in CT, 1 in NY and 2 in Georgia, the experience has seemed to be pretty meh overall. If the gorgeous sculpts haven't made people go crazy and buy up a good deal of a box set, I'm afraid for its (and WHFB) chances.

 Skriker wrote:
In the US with single man operations it is hard to run a store and paint multiple armies when you are the only staffer. Some succeed, others fail miserably.

In my area one store didn't even carry AoS, but has a growing group of Kings of War players who are old WHFB players who wanted to play a better game.

The main GW focused store in my area has sold a few, but even the owners think the game is junk without a lot of effort put into balancing and fixing it first.

So in general a whole lot of Meh around here.

Are all GW stores in the US single man operations? I only ask because when I went into my GW store (for the first time in... a year or more), there were at least two staff

I would be shocked to hear a GW employee actually call Age of Sigmar junk. Would be a quick way of getting fired, one would think...

 Talys wrote:

 Skriker wrote:
In the US with single man operations it is hard to run a store and paint multiple armies when you are the only staffer. Some succeed, others fail miserably.

In my area one store didn't even carry AoS, but has a growing group of Kings of War players who are old WHFB players who wanted to play a better game.

The main GW focused store in my area has sold a few, but even the owners think the game is junk without a lot of effort put into balancing and fixing it first.

So in general a whole lot of Meh around here.

Are all GW stores in the US single man operations? I only ask because when I went into my GW store (for the first time in... a year or more), there were at least two staff

I would be shocked to hear a GW employee actually call Age of Sigmar junk. Would be a quick way of getting fired, one would think...

If it's a one-man store, who's gonna tell on him?

 Talys wrote:


Are all GW stores in the US single man operations? I only ask because when I went into my GW store (for the first time in... a year or more), there were at least two staff

I would be shocked to hear a GW employee actually call Age of Sigmar junk. Would be a quick way of getting fired, one would think...

A vast majority are one man setups. You misunderstood my comment I said the "GW focused store", so no not a GW employee calling AoS junk, the manager of a store in my area that supports a lot of GW gaming.
Sorry that could have been clearer. Since the actual GW store in my area moved to a place not near any highways, with minimal hours with a single staffer I haven't set foot into it. Probably about 6 years or so now.

 Skriker wrote:
In the US with single man operations it is hard to run a store and paint multiple armies when you are the only staffer. Some succeed, others fail miserably.

In my area one store didn't even carry AoS, but has a growing group of Kings of War players who are old WHFB players who wanted to play a better game.

The main GW focused store in my area has sold a few, but even the owners think the game is junk without a lot of effort put into balancing and fixing it first.

So in general a whole lot of Meh around here.

here is a question, if KoW is a better game why did they not play it before AoS or was 8th superior to KoW in which case why was WHFB failing so badly in sales?

bitethythumb wrote:


here is a question, if KoW is a better game why did they not play it before AoS or was 8th superior to KoW in which case why was WHFB failing so badly in sales?

The Kings of War group has been playing for quite some time now. AoS had nothing to do with them switching games. All had given up WHFB as junk and started realizing they could dust off their old WHFB figures for Kings of War instead. There is zero interest there for AoS, because zero GW gaming has happened in that store in years. Warmachine, Malifaux and X-Wing (and its Star Trek and D&D based followups) are the games seen most often with Kings of War growing. Flames of War also raises its head from time to time as well. So the switch had zero to do with anything GW has done lately.

 Skriker wrote:

bitethythumb wrote:


here is a question, if KoW is a better game why did they not play it before AoS or was 8th superior to KoW in which case why was WHFB failing so badly in sales?

The Kings of War group has been playing for quite some time now. AoS had nothing to do with them switching games. All had given up WHFB as junk and started realizing they could dust off their old WHFB figures for Kings of War instead. There is zero interest there for AoS, because zero GW gaming has happened in that store in years. Warmachine, Malifaux and X-Wing (and its Star Trek and D&D based followups) are the games seen most often with Kings of War growing. Flames of War also raises its head from time to time as well. So the switch had zero to do with anything GW has done lately.

so 8th edition was a crappy game and WHFB was more or less dead so GW decided to do something drastic and make a skirmish version which is easier to maintain and update.

WHFB 8th has an extremely good reputation among competitive players.

 Skriker wrote:

 Talys wrote:


Are all GW stores in the US single man operations? I only ask because when I went into my GW store (for the first time in... a year or more), there were at least two staff

I would be shocked to hear a GW employee actually call Age of Sigmar junk. Would be a quick way of getting fired, one would think...

A vast majority are one man setups. You misunderstood my comment I said the "GW focused store", so no not a GW employee calling AoS junk, the manager of a store in my area that supports a lot of GW gaming.
Sorry that could have been clearer. Since the actual GW store in my area moved to a place not near any highways, with minimal hours with a single staffer I haven't set foot into it. Probably about 6 years or so now.

My local gw in Plymouth, Uk , is a 3 man store. Each staff member is very good. They are starting a 6 week long campaign for AOS and if all other campaigns they run are anything to go by they will get a very good uptake. They will have a big end game which involves using realm gates to go between realms also. Honestly.......they are very good and the uptake among casuals so far is very good, everyone is dusting off their WFB armies and just going to town. A brief chat prior to sort out army sizes etc and away we go.

In my experience the staff at GW shops vary considerably in quality, and you need to be lucky.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
In my experience the staff at GW shops vary considerably in quality, and you need to be lucky.

Yeah, definitely. Though the same can be said about independents. I am REALLY annoyed when I hear bad airbrushing advice, or terrible painting advice. Some of my favorites are:

- "Oh, the paintbrushes are basically all the same."

- "You really want a Single Action Airbrush because they're MUCH easier to use, and you'll never need a Double-Action"

- "Siphon Fed is WAY better than gravity, because you'll run out of paint with a gravity fed airbrush almost instantly"

- "Why do some of the Citadel paints say base or textuture or technical?" Answer: "They're just fancy labels for different colors. Some of them might be a little thicker or thinner, but that's it, except for the shades."

The difference betweeen Indies and GW is that GW's core business competency has been retail since 1980 and they really ought to know how to recruit and train staff.

That's why I have been surprised to see the fairly crappy displays of AOS in local GW shops. It is the biggest release of the past 15 years, that is supposed to lead on the awesome figures, and two shops I visited had just given them a quick blast of spray paint.

I aim to go back to Chiswick this week and see how they are doing over there. It is a very small shop in an unfashionable (i.e. cheap) area, but the manager seems to have his head screwed on.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The difference betweeen Indies and GW is that GW's core business competency has been retail since 1980 and they really ought to know how to recruit and train staff.

That's why I have been surprised to see the fairly crappy displays of AOS in local GW shops. It is the biggest release of the past 15 years, that is supposed to lead on the awesome figures, and two shops I visited had just given them a quick blast of spray paint.

I aim to go back to Chiswick this week and see how they are doing over there. It is a very small shop in an unfashionable (i.e. cheap) area, but the manager seems to have his head screwed on.

really? that one is closest one to where I live but I have never been to it, usually go to the Putney branch... well at least I know which shop I will visit next .... I got a load of old school minis I am trying to give away to people with better art skills (free of course) I feel sorry for them not being used and hope someone can paint them well and display, the Putney store is kinda meh about it, maybe someone at Chiswick will take over... or I could give them to you if you are any good

In Fayetteville NC we had a pretty happening Fantasy scene. Now its totally dead. My shop has sold one box so far.

cleaned some minis up... old stuff, hoping someone want these (or needs them) just a waste for them to collect dust, I gave them a dettol bath...hopefully someone at chiswick or putney branch GW will want some of them, some I am keeping for myself.. pm me if you live near to those branches or SW London in general sorry for the poor quality ... if not for AoS they would all still be in storage.

I like research. I'm a hack historian, but a historian nonetheless.
Over the course of three weeks, this is what I've noticed. (The FLGS is literally four minutes from my home and I stop in all the time.) Also, assume there were a bunch of Magic players in the other room. I don't pay attention to them, but there are a ton of them.

Week 1
WM/H night: Thursday. Six players with three games. Seventh player hanging out until opponents switched.
40k night: Friday. Four players. Two games.
Saturday. Four people playing Hero Clix. Two people playing AOS. I spent a half hour there and they spent the entire time discussing how to make even armies. I left before they started playing.

Week 2
WM/H night: Thursday. Eight players with four games.
40k night: Friday. Four players.
Saturday. Two groups of four playing Hero Clix. Two people playing some card based Pathfinder game.

Week 3
WM/H night: Thursday. Six players with two that came in later for one game.
Friday: Two people playing Hero Clix. ( It was 4th of July weekend so maybe that accounts for the deadness.)
Saturday. Two 40k players. Four Hero Clix players .....why the freak is this game so popular here??

We'll see how it goes for this week.
My old FLGS back in Virginia had a good group of Malifaux and Infinity. :(

I was in High Street Kensington today and decided to go and see how AoS was doing at the GW shop in Lancer Square, Kensington Church Street.

But it has closed down.

I was a bit sad because that is where I was enticed back into 40K in mid-2004, when 4th edition was released

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I was in High Street Kensington today and decided to go and see how AoS was doing at the GW shop in Lancer Square, Kensington Church Street.

But it has closed down.

I was a bit sad because that is where I was enticed back into 40K in mid-2004, when 4th edition was released

its ok, you want some metal minis? like old school necrons? cypher? wyches (sexy ones)?


I do not remember which branch it was but it was inside a shopping center near a crystal ball lady that I first saw GW :/ they apparently closed down as well... I think, maybe, still remember talking with the managers about tau.

My local area had an already decent WHFB scene and AoS has had a bipolar response.

Several players are upset since they thought 8th just needed a few updates and not a total shake up.

Several are happy that the rules are more streamlined and everything basically got an update at once.

In terms of play, every weekend night there have been a handful of players getting AoS games in and the playtesting response has been positive. Obviously there are already several house rules in force.


The local facebook group has come up with a warscroll comp system, and a tournament is being planned for next month to give it a whirl.

In terms of sales, the FLGS I go to bought 30 something boxes of the AoS boxset and he said there are only 3 remaining. I'm not sure how the rulebook or individual models have sold, but I will say many of the local players that weren't even interested in playing AoS bought the box set only for the models, particularly the Khorne models. Our shop is very heavy in MTG, and even some of those players that we would never see playing a model based game have gotten involved since the cost to play has gone down significantly.

bitethythumb wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
I was in High Street Kensington today and decided to go and see how AoS was doing at the GW shop in Lancer Square, Kensington Church Street.

But it has closed down.

I was a bit sad because that is where I was enticed back into 40K in mid-2004, when 4th edition was released

its ok, you want some metal minis? like old school necrons? cypher? wyches (sexy ones)?


I do not remember which branch it was but it was inside a shopping center near a crystal ball lady that I first saw GW :/ they apparently closed down as well... I think, maybe, still remember talking with the managers about tau.

Thanks but I've got more metal figures than I know what to do with.

bitethythumb wrote:
cleaned some minis up... old stuff, hoping someone want these (or needs them) just a waste for them to collect dust, I gave them a dettol bath...hopefully someone at chiswick or putney branch GW will want some of them, some I am keeping for myself.. pm me if you live near to those branches or SW London in general sorry for the poor quality ... if not for AoS they would all still be in storage.

Aw, that's some groovy ol' stuff. I see some WH40K, some Blood Bowl - hell, you got all kinds of good ol' stuff in there. Wish I was on the other side of the pond!

*edit*

Oh, yes - GW doesn't care about these awesome old miniatures, because you didn't buy them in the last six months. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU DESERVES AoS!!!

The West Tokyo Wargamers are doing oldhammer now all the way back to 3rd ed. No one has even brought it up as a game to do at our monthly pubcon. Quite a few of the group feel that GW has really jumped the shark with this one.

At my club there is...suddenly a whole lot of interest in KoW and WM/H....

It has become pretty popular where like several others experiences have mentioned, many have dusted off their old Fantasy models and are starting to play games, however there is one pretty big issue. Its almost split half and half but some people want a point system in place to balance the game and others who feel that a point system is not needed. This has sadly split the gaming group in two with several players refusing to play or even get into the hobby unless there is a point system in place and those refusing to play them with one as they prefer to not use a points system. Personally I will play anyone with either format and in regards to AoS I actually really enjoy it but would enjoy some more framework to balance some games. However like others I will not be getting a large force, I am looking at maybe 75 models total using the Island of Blood High Elves and will see how the game holds up and if it hangs around.

It has done what no other game has managed to do at my FLGS: freed some of the tables from the tyrannical grip of M:tG. It's been solidly popular since the weekend the rules were released and hasn't shown any signs of slowing down.

In my local area, I would say it's gaining steam as people get into playing it. I am picking up daemons (granted they double for another 40k army too ... but still ) and from what I have seen it should do well in my area.

The game seems to have brought a lot of old players out of retirement in my area...even converted some from 40K, so from my perspective in talking with gamers in the area, AoS is being enjoyed. A few have quit playing for the time being (none of them even giving the rules a try) but I can't say I will miss any of them. Personally, despite my dismay over the changes to the Old World that I was very fond of and the simplifications of the rules, I like AoS.

It's going pretty hard at my FLGS.

We don't play it. We play 8th edition or KoW now.

Its not even selling at the store. We had a funny conversation with one of the employees about the last conversation he had with the GW rep.

"So how's AoS selling?"

"Its not."

"...oh......well let us know when it picks up..."

 gmaleron wrote:
It has become pretty popular where like several others experiences have mentioned, many have dusted off their old Fantasy models and are starting to play games, however there is one pretty big issue. Its almost split half and half but some people want a point system in place to balance the game and others who feel that a point system is not needed. This has sadly split the gaming group in two with several players refusing to play or even get into the hobby unless there is a point system in place and those refusing to play them with one as they prefer to not use a points system. Personally I will play anyone with either format and in regards to AoS I actually really enjoy it but would enjoy some more framework to balance some games. However like others I will not be getting a large force, I am looking at maybe 75 models total using the Island of Blood High Elves and will see how the game holds up and if it hangs around.

Hahaha this is beautiful. How predictable was that? Takes a boorish and arogant company to split their player base just like that and it is the worst part of the release.

On topic, I dont know a single person interested. I asked guys who get into every obscure skirmish kickstarter there is. I asked boardgamers who voiced interest about whfb before but were put off by the amount of work required. I asked whfb players, current and retired. I asked 40k players. It was universaly laughed off.

I also think that the dull and characterless sigmarines would not be that popular if they werent dirt cheap now. It will only get worse when everybody fills up on affordable plastic for conversions and quick games and the models start showing up for the usual price imo.

Have to say that all the posts about the lukewarm reception fill my black heart with glowing shadenfreude. Bite the dust, Sigmar.

Plumbumbarum wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
It has become pretty popular where like several others experiences have mentioned, many have dusted off their old Fantasy models and are starting to play games, however there is one pretty big issue. Its almost split half and half but some people want a point system in place to balance the game and others who feel that a point system is not needed. This has sadly split the gaming group in two with several players refusing to play or even get into the hobby unless there is a point system in place and those refusing to play them with one as they prefer to not use a points system. Personally I will play anyone with either format and in regards to AoS I actually really enjoy it but would enjoy some more framework to balance some games. However like others I will not be getting a large force, I am looking at maybe 75 models total using the Island of Blood High Elves and will see how the game holds up and if it hangs around.

Hahaha this is beautiful. How predictable was that? Takes a boorish and arogant company to split their player base just like that and it is the worst part of the release.

On topic, I dont know a single person interested. I asked guys who get into every obscure skirmish kickstarter there is. I asked boardgamers who voiced interest about whfb before but were put off by the amount of work required. I asked whfb players, current and retired. I asked 40k players. It was universaly laughed off.

I also think that the dull and characterless sigmarines would not be that popular if they werent dirt cheap now. It will only get worse when everybody fills up on affordable plastic for conversions and quick games and the models start showing up for the usual price imo.

Have to say that all the posts about the lukewarm reception fill my black heart with glowing shadenfreude. Bite the dust, Sigmar.

weird I did the exact same thing and most people I spoke with enjoy the game and it sold rather well compared to WHFB at my GW store, I guess people stick in their little circles, bite the dust khorne boys.

Doing really well here. Go to whw on the late nights and it's pretty much all that is being played.

 JamesY wrote:
Doing really well here. Go to whw on the late nights and it's pretty much all that is being played.

no, you are doing it wrong, you need to make a snide comment for people to take you seriously.

Still struggling.
Our store here has closed for two weeks.
In the meantime we will look for some additional rules to improve the game dynamics.

It would appear that in the local scenes where people played the game for the competitive (cutthroat or casually) aspect of the hobby (by which I mean that the models served primarily as the playing pieces for a rules-heavy strategy game where experience, careful moving and forethought, understanding of the sprawling rules system, and how to build potent armies was rewarded), AoS is not fairing very well. This is to be expected - AoS literally does not cater to their expectations of play, or offer the type of gaming contest of skill that they want. Many gaming communities are going so far as to not touch it because they know it's not what 8th was and it's not what they want, which is fine, really. Such a radical change in game type isn't going to be appreciated by 100% of your customer base.

Went to another store recently when visiting a different city. They ad a few boxes of AoS still but everyone was still playing 40k, the fantasy area was dead. They'd even cleared one of the AoS boards to give an intro game for 40k to some guys.

 Los pollos hermanos wrote:
Went to another store recently when visiting a different city. They ad a few boxes of AoS still but everyone was still playing 40k, the fantasy area was dead. They'd even cleared one of the AoS boards to give an intro game for 40k to some guys.

Interesting. Local GW did the same here. When AoS launched, they had 2 shelves filled with AoS starters, now they got 1 shelf and the rest of the boxes are in the backroom. Instead of 1 demo table and 1 AoS play table, there was only 1 demo table. Getting similar reports from other bigger German cities. Guess it has something to do with WHFB being quite popular in EU / Germany and a lot of people being angry about GW deciding to abandon the game.

bitethythumb wrote:
no, you are doing it wrong, you need to make a snide comment for people to take you seriously.

Like you just did?

There is still absolutely no interest in my club. Various previous versions will probably be played instead; happily a Mordheim campaign has also started up.

Our store sold I think 3-4 starters (could have been as little as two,) when the game came out on the first day. They got a poster to display that is borderline a lithograph with dual sides, and then after that they didn't get a set in for another weekish.

Currently the shop has two starter sets in stock, People use their already existing Khorne armies or what they already had in 8th.

Still, lots of support for it in our store. Our store also says that eventually 40k will go this way. I hope it does not.

AoS killed Fantasy for all the players I know, I expected people to be upset but not enough to literally destroy the scene in one night. I went to my local GW for the launch day and it was easily the quietest launch I've ever been in a store for. I got in about 2-3 hours before closing time. The shelves were packed with AoS starter, behind the till were two boxes full of AoS t-shirts that were supposed to be free for people who bought the starter that were still basically full.

The manager dodged my questions about sales. When he found out I already bought a copy from the website he tried pretty hard to sell me a second copy, which was pretty telling.

As for players, the shop had two 40k games going on and two guys in their twenties playing the AoS demo who were talking in hushed tones and giggling like schoolgirls every minute or two. A guy entered and watched them play for a while before he shook his head and walked out.

As far as my local non-GW FLGS goes, I haven't been in but I heard they cut their shelf space for Fantasy back to the minimum amount required to meet the conditions of their trade agreement.

For my $.02

AoS seems to have gotten a few people to trot out the Fantasy stuff that's been rotting on a shelf for three years, try it once or twice, and then put it right back on the shelf and forget about it. I haven't really tried it myself, so I'm not going to comment on the fun factor or anything, but it's apparently just not doing it for the older WHFB players, and isn't drawing anyone new in from what I've seen. The only use people appear to have for some of the new AoS models is for 40k proxies.

WHFB had been dead for a while, and AoS isn't bringing it back. It's just not clicking the buttons for people that WHFB did.

I went into a local FLGS and asked the guy behind the counter how AoS was selling. "I'll tell you when it starts." Not a single copy sold there. Bought some minis and trotted out.

Went into the slightly less FLGS and looked around for a bit. Thin layer of dust on top of the AoS boxes. The look of hope in the manager's eyes as I went to look at them and the look of devastation as I walked away said it all for me.

It's pretty rough.

From my experience working in gw retail, stores sell what the staff are passionate about. I put my grey knights in the cabinet, we sold more grey knights. A colleague painted a beautiful army of valhallans in store and played with them, suddenly AM/IG were selling really well. If the store staff don't believe in AoS, that will affect the buying decisions of their customers. So if it isn't being played in your flgs, I'd be interested to know how the team there feel about it as well.

@rexinvictus that guy allowing the boxes to get dusty kind of emphasises this, how can he expect to promote the game if he allows his stock of it to look like that?

I was at my local independent store on Saturday and they had the whole promo table set up with fully painted models and terrain. They had about 40 copies of AoS nobody was playing or even looking at the promo board. In the game room there were no games of AoS going on. There was 40K, X-Wing, Infinity, Warmahordes, and STAW being played. There used to be at least 2 games of Fantasy going on at any given time, but it seems to have dried up quickly.

Visited a store in Ontario I'll be moving to in the next couple weeks. Apparently fantasy player base went from 2 or 3 die hards, and now its over a dozen guys coming in regularly.

I go to two flgs, both of which have lots of magic, 40k, Warmahordes and X-wing players, but only one has (had) a fantasy group of about 6 players. That's down to 0 players for AoS, and the group is taking the first steps into KoW, along with individuals putting more time into other game systems. Sad, really, as I just started fantasy about 16 months ago, after being burned out from 40ks constant changes.

My group has several players that are heavy into Warhammer Fantasy. Guys that spend thousands on their armies, play consistently in big GT's, and are deep into the hobby. AoS has killed Fantasy for them all. No motivation to play. We play out of a small FLGS that has ordered 4 boxs of AoS. Not one has moved from the shelf since it was stocked. Although we are a small group, AoS has killed Fantasy. Many of them are moving over to 40k or Warmachine.

 JamesY wrote:
@rexinvictus that guy allowing the boxes to get dusty kind of emphasises this, how can he expect to promote the game if he allows his stock of it to look like that?

It's a three storey store. I think it's a matter of priorities.

stores sell what the staff are passionate about.

Totally this. There's been some AoS played in my local GW but the store demo table still has unpainted miniatures on it not one of the staff has a painted and playable AoS force, they struggle to show any excitement for it. The store feels flat and lifeless, doesn't help that the manager is a massive bellend, belittling potential customers.

So far in 3 weeks I've not seen one demo game played, I think there's 2 of us in store buying stormcast, store only seems to get a handful of customers buying things (40k or AoS) on a weekend.

I'm honestly suprised as to how far GW has fallen in the 10 years or so since I played heavily, it's the middle of the summer holidays in the UK, so far I've not seen anyone below the age of 18 playing a game.

I think their whole model needs a shake up, they need to recreate the enthusiasm and buzz of the 2000s in the stores, make them a place customers want to come and chuck some dice about. That buzz sells product. I remember 3rd ed 40k release, in one of the flagship uk stores we had 75ish copies pre ordered and sold the same again on release day, not seen that kind of selling with aos.

Orangecoke wrote:

 Ironwolf45 wrote:

 Motograter wrote:
So like anything. Its either not selling or is. Lol. Its not gonna die anytime soon. GW have put money into it. They will give it a few years. Rumours suggest this has been gw's idea for years and now that they've had the chance to do it they went for it. Look how many years they kept old fantasy going for. Anyone thinking gw is just gonna drop AoS anytime in the near future is gonne be in for a wait

I seriously doubt that fantasy is going away, however if Age of Sigmar does not perform, it is possible that they might keep it as a skirmish based game to learn the rules so to speak and bring back the old structure for Warhammer Fantasy. While I do like what the new version brings in some ways, this is not fantasy and honestly I enjoyed the older style and structure a lot better than this. Sad thing to is that there really wasn't anything wrong with the old game with the exception of some rules and magic being a bit too strong.

Not sure that's the case....

- if AoS fails, it's not really clear to me that GW would bring back the old form of WFB. They killed it for a reason: it doesn't sell. Internally at GW, someone would have to make one hell of a strong business case to get it brought back. I don't think they would be able to justify it on a spreadsheet per se.

- WFB had a lot wrong with it in terms of being a vibrant business that sells well (ie like 40K or Warmachine), more than just a few rules and an over-strong magic phase. Sure I enjoyed a few games of 8th, but evidently the barrier to entry was too high and existing vets weren't buying enough stuff.

If AoS fails I think GW would basically sell just 40K and the odd spot release like the Assassin board game, Space Hulk etc. And that might mean closing their stores and going direct only.

It's the reasons above that have me hoping AoS succeeds - because I really, really like GW fantasy models. Can't stand Mantic's for example. Privateers are nice and honestly if they went hard/sprue plastic I think they would deal GW a serious blow - I think their lousy plastic material and metal models hold them back tbh.

Anyway, I'm rambling lol.

I am sorry this is a little off topic but I feel i need to comment about this. Their plastic is really restic as far as everyone can tell. Metal miniatures are the only realistic material to mass produce miniatures in , in an economic cost sense, especially when your doing a Skirmish game because its a little crazy to spend 5 to 20 thousand dollars on a single mold and hope it sells well!? HIP plastic is an inferior material for miniatures sure its great for "toys" but real miniatures that are not going to sell in a mass thousands of fans are done in metal and resin because HIP plastic is an unrealistic material to produce miniatures in end of story ( also you get nothing but flat detail in plastic compared to the amazing stuff done in metal and resin and all HIP sci fi and fantasy companies produce nothing but 80's heroic scale minis and nothing of true scale ( excluding historical guys who yes some do true scale).

Besides that i feel bad for my local club that had stocked 40 of the starter boxes and not a single one has sold ( far as i knew their was a big fantasy community in my area and now it is 100% gone), their is one box gone but that is for of course their display . All in all i think the best thing for fantasy gamers now is to look into new games as i am sure their are many that gamers would enjoy. I still find it funny that GW went with a skirmish game, yes i think it is the right scale for 28mm miniatures , large scale battles just doesn't work in 28mm. However i knew right of from the start this game would not do well, GW doesn't know how to write rules and their going to go and compete against all the great skirmish games out their? i think it is very clear now that they do not know anything about the market place. Which bodes well for market diversity but i think its safe to say in my area they have dug themselves a grave when it comes too their fantasy range.

My own enthusiasm for GW products waned when White Dwarf went down the toilet last year.

WD and the Horus Heresy novels were the only things connecting me to the hobby - I have got hundreds of Warhammer models and a nice Chaos force for 40K but no real enthusiasm to build it all up, partly because I can't paint (and am currently still too ADHD to learn), partly because AoS killed Warhammer, but also due to the negativity of GW "fans" in general.

I don't want to play against power-gamers and serial complainers, I only want to play people who play for love of the game, which I reckon is what AoS is all about.

I am thinking more and more that I'd like to give AoS a try. It might have ditched a lot of things we care about, but it's also ditched the moaners and haters.

 NoPoet wrote:
My own enthusiasm for GW products waned when White Dwarf went down the toilet last year.

WD and the Horus Heresy novels were the only things connecting me to the hobby - I have got hundreds of Warhammer models and a nice Chaos force for 40K but no real enthusiasm to build it all up, partly because I can't paint (and am currently still too ADHD to learn), partly because AoS killed Warhammer, but also due to the negativity of GW "fans" in general.

I don't want to play against power-gamers and serial complainers, I only want to play people who play for love of the game, which I reckon is what AoS is all about.

I am thinking more and more that I'd like to give AoS a try. It might have ditched a lot of things we care about, but it's also ditched the moaners and haters.

To be honest, I agree with you on the whole powergamers thing, but that's something that could've been solved with reasonable theme forces.

In Glasgow, and it's slightly hard to tell here.

I do know that I've not met a single person face to face who's expressed interest in AoS. The best reaction I've seen is a few people glumly continuing to give it a fair go. The hobby club I go to on weekends is particularly caustically negative, possibly even more so than a lot of places I've seen on the web if that's even possible.

That said, we don't have an independent store around these parts, or at least not one big enough to have tables for pickup games... So I don't have any independent stocker tales.

In the GW, well for context first: Apparently Glasgow GW is, in terms of overall GW product sales, one of the best performing branches of GW in the UK, at least according to the manager's bragging. He may just be bragging, who knows. I have no hard data. But it is fairly believable in that it's a busy shop with staff who're frequently having trouble juggling all the people coming in and out.

That established, I've seen a reasonable number of AoS sales happen. Less people hanging around in the shop though... And kind of a quietly oppressive atmosphere. Staff are avoiding repeat customers in favour of new people coming in the door to an extreme level even by their usual standards. Games I've watched people play have a lot of complaining about how bad it is, rather than seeming to particularly enjoy themselves. Bunting with Sigmar symbols dangles from the roof low enough to hit the heads of the particularly tall. AoS decorations on every wall. Nobody but the staff looking particularly happy. It's a lot harder to even get 40k pickup games at the moment, nobody seems in the mood.

Four times the wall space Dark Vengeance has is dedicated to the AoS Starter, and as a result I can't quite tell whether it's being sold enough to justify that, or if they just have excess stock on display from underselling expectations.

Overall: Badly received but somehow selling anyhow. Might just be the worst of both worlds in this area.

I've seen one person at my store buy it. The shelves are still full. The owner admited that there's no interest in it.
The only other person I know who has bought it, bought it because he literally buys everything from all systems. His house is like a museum of gaming. He did admit that he felt dirty buying it.

Its selling really well in my area, people just having fun with it, the thing i have noticed in my area is it attracting a lot of middling age players who left this hobby behind in late teens/early 20s now returning after having a family and enjoying how simple the rules are and that they can literally just buy whatever they like off the shelves, paint it up, roll some dice and have a laugh on their weekly night away from the family.

Talking to them, they all mostly say the same thing, that they kept an eye on GW over the years but this made them decide to jump back in.

If this is one market GW was trying for who knows but its working in my area.

I wonder if there is a difference between regions. Is it doing better in UK as opposed to the US? Australia? Asia? I would love to see numbers on that.

 JamesY wrote:
Doing really well here. Go to whw on the late nights and it's pretty much all that is being played.

Aye I noticed lots of AOS being played in whw during the week, was even a game of AOS going in the GW in town as well.
Seems to be doing well in the midlands.

One would hope that it was being played at WHW.....

 agnosto wrote:
One would hope that it was being played at WHW.....

I don't think that's a good indication on how well or poor it's doing in the rest of the world.

figured I'd give an update in my area.

So there are 2 separate local groups who play, both around 6~10 people and both focus on playing at 2 separate FLGS.

the 1 meta at the biggest FLGS has pretty much given up on AoS. They still tried it out last night, but it appears most don't like it, forcing the few who do to still pick up a new game. Demos have been give out to a bunch of people, but ultimately, it looks like players are migrating to LotR, Malifaux, and Wrath of Kings.

the 2nd meta at the 2nd biggest FLGS is still playing both AoS and 8E, from what I gather. They are still trying make AoS "work" and appear somewhat dedicated to.

So essentially, as i think I had stated earlier, it's 50/50 as I thought. So far. But rather than being split 50/50 across the board, it's 50/50 b/c 1 group is 100% done and 1 group is still 100% in.

edit:
I'll say, me personally, I'll probably convert or migrate to another game. Either LotR or WoK, if only b/c that is what'll be played at the FLGS much more closer to me. Or I may just focus more on Infinity. I'm still curious to see how the other group/FLGS develops AoS for themselves. What I really want to do is spread SAGA to both groups (all the SAGA players here don't play WHFB pretty much) and people can just use their WHFB models. I think it's a brilliant idea! But it'll probably be difficult given how hard other games are being spearheaded.

 Dr. Cheesesteak wrote:
figured I'd give an update in my area.

So there are 2 separate local groups who play, both around 6~10 people and both focus on playing at 2 separate FLGS.

the 1 meta at the biggest FLGS has pretty much given up on AoS. They still tried it out last night, but it appears most don't like it, forcing the few who do to still pick up a new game. Demos have been give out to a bunch of people, but ultimately, it looks like players are migrating to LotR, Malifaux, and Wrath of Kings.

the 2nd meta at the 2nd biggest FLGS is still playing both AoS and 8E, from what I gather. They are still trying make AoS "work" and appear somewhat dedicated to.

So essentially, as i think I had stated earlier, it's 50/50 as I thought. So far. But rather than being split 50/50 across the board, it's 50/50 b/c 1 group is 100% done and 1 group is still 100% in.

edit:
I'll say, me personally, I'll probably convert or migrate to another game. Either LotR or WoK, if only b/c that is what'll be played at the FLGS much more closer to me. Or I may just focus more on Infinity. I'm still curious to see how the other group/FLGS develops AoS for themselves. What I really want to do is spread SAGA to both groups (all the SAGA players here don't play WHFB pretty much) and people can just use their WHFB models. I think it's a brilliant idea! But it'll probably be difficult given how hard other games are being spearheaded.

I don't know much about Wrath of Kings, but I love the models. I bought some of the werewolves to use in my Circle army (because I liked the idea of a giant female werewolf) and they're very very well done models.

This question won't really become relevant until after a few weeks or months have passed. Honeymoon period and all that applying here. Although not sure what it says if a large portion of responses are saying its not doing very well already considering its just released and should be at peak interest.

I spoke to my FLGS owner just a few days ago about AOS; The shop normally has a strong following of 40k 10-12 players with some of them that also have fantasy armies 4-6. He told me that only one box has sold and the buyer told him he only planned to convert the figures for his 40k army. The owner wants to do demos to help push the game but he is having a hard time recruiting someone to run them.
I have a difficult time wrapping my head around AOS no point system, the rules are playable but just don't want to throw out everything I own and hope my opponent don't rage quit.

It seems AOS is either doing very well or completely killing fantasy in games stores..no in between.

 MWHistorian wrote:

I don't know much about Wrath of Kings, but I love the models. I bought some of the werewolves to use in my Circle army (because I liked the idea of a giant female werewolf) and they're very very well done models.

yeah I actually have that WoK Goritsi starter set. I got it before anyone at the big FLGS even heard of the game lol. And you're right, they are great models. I ultimately, ironically, gave up on WoK in hype favor of AoS. But, seems we know how that's gone...

It's doing pretty consistent/decently in my area. (East of Seattle).

It's not eclipsing everything else, but it's doing well enough. The new terrain is 7 kinds of awesome!

In my area (Tulsa), we had a pretty large & diverse group playing Fantasy, about eight regulars, another four or five who'd turn up every couple of months, and few we'd see maybe twice a year- but 8th edition killed it. The game was dead, dead, dead and the stock was being consistently moved to the discount table, where it would sit for months. Several people started to base their fantasy armies for the Impetus rules.

In 2014 Fantasy started to pick up again. One or two of the older players and some new guys started playing 8th fairly often. This new group was much smaller, about five or six total. But a few months ago they all disappeared.

AoS is having a slow start. The people who have played the most are older players, those who have armies but didn't like 8th. I know I am having fun discovering how my old units act now. A few boxes have sold, and not just to 40K players, either, so maybe in a couple more weeks we'll start to see Sigmarine armies out to play. The people playing now tend to want to field painted armies.

There has been talk of Kings of War, but no one has done more than talk, so far.

Update: the 8th ed guys are back, and they are all playing Kings of War. I have been invited to join them next Sunday with my square-based models.

 MWHistorian wrote:

I don't know much about Wrath of Kings, but I love the models. I bought some of the werewolves to use in my Circle army (because I liked the idea of a giant female werewolf) and they're very very well done models.

Gasps.

Judt googled wrath of kings, and oh, my god. Those werewolves are stunning.

How can I get them? The female skirmisher and scourge hound especially.

I'm in Kent, WA and Age of Sigmar has been doing great here. Every day I've been in my store there is at least one game going, and the new Stormcasts are selling really well. Don't know about anyone else, but it is going great here.

Deadnight wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

I don't know much about Wrath of Kings, but I love the models. I bought some of the werewolves to use in my Circle army (because I liked the idea of a giant female werewolf) and they're very very well done models.

Gasps.

Judt googled wrath of kings, and oh, my god. Those werewolves are stunning.

How can I get them? The female skirmisher and scourge hound especially.

https://www.coolminiornot.com/shop/miniatures/wrath-of-kings/goritsi-starter-box.html

cheers
jah

So basically Rackham Confrontation Wolven.

 Moopy wrote:
So basically Rackham Confrontation Wolven.

Not just basically. The very same sculptors.

CMON's Confrontation re-boot has also been lingering in the pipeline for a few years now. Not sure if they've given up on it.

http://confrontationphoenix.com/

The Sad thing is that no matter how I look at it, Warhammer Fantasy 9th edition could easily have succeeded if games workshop actually put forth the effort to make it as successful as Warhammer 40k. I understand why they went this route from a business standpoint, however the issue I have with this is that if Games Workshop put some of the effort they have done to get Warhammer 40k and Horus Heresy popular, through ads, marketing, etc., then Warhammer Fantasy could have survived or even had made a comeback. The fact to me is that no matter how I look at it, I just feel that Games Workshop got lazy and decided to try something new instead of trying to fix what they had, and I honestly feel that this is going to backfire on them. Sure sales are doing good right now, however that's because this is the new thing and in my experience it always sells good when something new comes out.

Just played a game of 8th edition today and from looking at it, there were only a few things Games Workshop had to do in order to make 9th edition a success. Like 40K, all they had to do was tone down some of the rules, make better battle forces to allow players quicker access to play, and as mentioned above, actually put forth some effort to promote Warhammer Fantasy instead of doing the bare minimum, which they have been doing for the past couple of editions when it came to Warhammer Fantasy. Obviously there were other factors that played into this decision to change the game, however I still firmly believe that the vast majority reason was due to games workshops Incompetence. not buying any excuses that Games Workshop couldn't have done anything to bring back fantasy, when evidence shows that when 40k was slacking, they put forth the effort to correct it and look what happened.

As for how Age of Sigmar is doing, still have a huge stack of boxes and not many people are playing it. A lot of the older Warhammer fantasy players are basically telling new players not to play it as they see it as a bad game. Anyone else been noticing a lot of the old guard telling new players not to play Warhammer Age of Sigmar? Not surprising as from what I have seen, feedback has been overwhelming negative at my store. And one guy made it interesting point in the sense that since they are just changing the names of the races and such, why didn't Games Workshop just make a completely different game instead of killing off this one. Kind of has a valid point now that I think about it.

 jah-joshua wrote:

Deadnight wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

I don't know much about Wrath of Kings, but I love the models. I bought some of the werewolves to use in my Circle army (because I liked the idea of a giant female werewolf) and they're very very well done models.

Gasps.

Judt googled wrath of kings, and oh, my god. Those werewolves are stunning.

How can I get them? The female skirmisher and scourge hound especially.

https://www.coolminiornot.com/shop/miniatures/wrath-of-kings/goritsi-starter-box.html

cheers
jah

Cheers man!

http://wrathofkings.com/ks/factions/house-of-goritsi/
And the female skirmisher third from the left?

Edit: figured it out.theres six skirmishers in the starter not just the dude on the box cover.

My buddy manages at hobby town, they started selling fantasy stuff for the first time in a long time. I bought the starter set, but I'm probably going to play high elves primarily. (I've collected several heroes, and a few units over the years because they're pretty, and my knights immortal figures from mageknight work beautifully!)

As a store worker in charge of piloting AoS this is kinda what I found as a community.

We have been selling fantasy stuff, not just AoS, but older stuff that has collected dust for years even when we had the End Times stuff out.

We have sold half of our AoS starter stock. Most of the customers have either bought them for the models, or looking for something lighter to get into.

People that actually have played the game with at least the starter kit have enjoyed it.

The only real rules we have had to add/change is removing the initiative roll after each turn, the shooting range why in melee, and giving a look out sir! to hero units.

We currently have at least 3 dedicated players, and 3-5 on and off guys.

It seems to be doing fairly well at my local GW store. plenty of people crowding around a table.... Not multiple games mind you, but no 40K games happening either.

So from that, lots of people interested and some game activity. I know the initial launch got a few bulk orders from customers.... but I'm not sure its selling that well. Especially when the collectors edition is still available on the GW Australia store, which for a GW product - seems unusual.

I asked the local manager and he said that the launch is going well.
I mentioned about the online backlash, to which he responded that old players just need tome to adjust.... He's not a bad guy so I let that slide.
I did think that was a fairly arrogant mindset, considering AoS is a new game that has essentially eliminated and replaced the old game that so many people loved.


Anyway, that's my two cents

Well, unfortunately, a friend of mine just started getting into AoS, and kind of prefers the system now. And a couple of people at my store have been playing only that the past few weeks.

I've played a few games myself, and it's an okay game, but doesn't even come close to replacing 40k for me.

I also checked with my local store, and apparently the sales are doing okay. Not extremely good, or bad, just okay. Heck, at the end of the day, my girlfriend wanted to pick up Empire models for a new army.

All of that being said, I'm very happy with the overall "balance" of the armies. One thing I don't miss from 8th edition was how terrible Tomb Kings were. Now, they seem to be pretty insane, but as are most things.

I was chatting with my local store owner (independent) and asks him how AoS was doing.

He has one customer, a 25+ year veteran of WHFB who wants to drop an orbital bombardment onto GWHQ. But he says he has sold more Fantasy in one month than almost the last year put together, so he's ecstatic. He went from minimum stocking levels (read: Qty 1) to ordering 4-5 of new releases and selling out before the next week. The terrain was literally gone within the hour.

They've also sold a lot of the 264 page book, which he was surprised at - the first week, he had only ordered 2, and they were spoken for before they arrived, then he ordered 5 and they sold within the week. The AoS section is literally bare, save a couple of starter boxes and some of single character clampacks.

I haven't seen anyone play it at any store I've gone to, but I tend to visit around lunch hours on business days, so not busy times anyhow.

@krodarklor - I'm totally with you: The rules and game is ok, but it doesn't come CLOSE to competing with 40k for my attention. Unfortunately (Fortunately?) my wife loves the game, so I must paint her like, 50 Sigmarites >.< On the bright side, she's going to be playing with her Magic friends, so I will blissfully stay in my 40k realm

 Talys wrote:
I was chatting with my local store owner (independent) and asks him how AoS was doing.

He has one customer, a 25+ year veteran of WHFB who wants to drop an orbital bombardment onto GWHQ. But he says he has sold more Fantasy in one month than almost the last year put together, so he's ecstatic. He went from minimum stocking levels (read: Qty 1) to ordering 4-5 of new releases and selling out before the next week. The terrain was literally gone within the hour.

To be fair, you'll often get this with big releases in the very beginning quite often, and you'll always get people that will buy the new stuff "just because". The question will be, does it sustain itself past any initial "new factor"?

Personally, I haven't seen people touch fantasy in years, and AoS did seem to generate some new interest, bringing their stuff out for the first time since like 2012 and checking out the new system, but beyond the initial "lets try this out", it doesn't appear that it's really caught on. There's the initial burst of interest, and then it flickers out. I think most of the kits sold at my FLGS were for use as 40k proxies


Dunno if that's the case everywhere, but it does seem to be not totally uncommon.

My closest FLGS friends are getting into it. A long time friend is getting me into it and there's a possoble recruit or two still out there.
So that's at least 7 players with a more diverse army playgroup than we expected.

Got my wife to play it, I also started at the same time. Her daemonettes army was already pretty significant from 40k and I have a bunch of fantasy models from gw and other companies. Turns out I have pretty decent high elf, dark elf, and vampire counts armies literally lying around the house

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Talys wrote:
I was chatting with my local store owner (independent) and asks him how AoS was doing.

He has one customer, a 25+ year veteran of WHFB who wants to drop an orbital bombardment onto GWHQ. But he says he has sold more Fantasy in one month than almost the last year put together, so he's ecstatic. He went from minimum stocking levels (read: Qty 1) to ordering 4-5 of new releases and selling out before the next week. The terrain was literally gone within the hour.

To be fair, you'll often get this with big releases in the very beginning quite often, and you'll always get people that will buy the new stuff "just because". The question will be, does it sustain itself past any initial "new factor"?

Personally, I haven't seen people touch fantasy in years, and AoS did seem to generate some new interest, bringing their stuff out for the first time since like 2012 and checking out the new system, but beyond the initial "lets try this out", it doesn't appear that it's really caught on. There's the initial burst of interest, and then it flickers out. I think most of the kits sold at my FLGS were for use as 40k proxies


Dunno if that's the case everywhere, but it does seem to be not totally uncommon.

Yeah, I agree. The real test is down the road, whether people are excited or not when there's a new release.

 Talys wrote:

@krodarklor - I'm totally with you: The rules and game is ok, but it doesn't come CLOSE to competing with 40k for my attention. Unfortunately (Fortunately?) my wife loves the game, so I must paint her like, 50 Sigmarites >.< On the bright side, she's going to be playing with her Magic friends, so I will blissfully stay in my 40k realm

Well, my girlfriend might seriously get into Empire after selling her Lizards, but I dunno. I don't mind playing it with her, mainly because summoning is fun. I just don't want her, or my other friends, to forsake 40k altogether. Doesn't help that my girlfriend likes CSM, and they suck right now....

 Talys wrote:
I was chatting with my local store owner (independent) and asks him how AoS was doing.

They've also sold a lot of the 264 page book, which he was surprised at - the first week, he had only ordered 2, and they were spoken for before they arrived, then he ordered 5 and they sold within the week. The AoS section is literally bare, save a couple of starter boxes and some of single character clampacks.

We have the same situation. We usually stock up on the new stuff about 1-3 of each item then drop down to a minimum as people finish their collections. But man, that book, we been selling it like hot cakes. I'm not even shy about being honest with customers what is in the book, I even show them our store copy so they can clearly see everything in it. Yet, they they still like it. We even had a guy just pre-order the huge tree-people battle pack today as well.

My goal now is try to grab some 40k players to at least dabble in the game, I'm not looking to call our league a fantasy/40k league, but it would be nice to be able to play both games. Since as of right now, I'm pretty thick into AoS promoting it for the store and all.

In this region the veteran gamers (like me) tried the game and will not play it, because the lack of depth.

But there seems to be interest in AoS by younger players and partners of gamers. And there are people that do not like big sets of rules (one of the reasons why X-Wing or Star Wars Armada sells; i literally learned both in about 10 minutes each).

Yesterday I advised a friend to try it with his sons (around 10 years old) instead of WHFB because of the simple rules. The WHFB rules are a bit much even for him. He did not know AoS was easier AND free to download at the moment.
AoS can be played by the sons with or without him and is an easy way to have fun with miniatures.

I do expect that this will work out actually and it might save WHFB. And if i was GW, i would not provide advanced rules too soon.

Otherwise these new players would quickly be driven away by the "competitive gamers" that too often do not play for fun and often even take the fun out of it.

I play WHFB since 3rd edition, AoS is not for me, but i understand who it is for and i completely understand that this is a different group as the group that grew too small and did not spent enough on the game to keep it alive.

I my opinion wargaming should be about having fun and creativity, and AoS has that covered.
I also like a game with depth and where skill is a deciding element. AoS is not that.
40k is about 60% in the good direction IMO, Epic is close to perfect.

But for fun you can play anything.
And if you want to paint miniatures, which i do, the game is only part of the hobby.

ORicK wrote:
In this region the veteran gamers (like me) tried the game and will not play it, because the lack of depth.

But there seems to be interest in AoS by younger players and partners of gamers. And there are people that do not like big sets of rules (one of the reasons why X-Wing or Star Wars Armada sells; i literally learned both in about 10 minutes each).

Yesterday I advised a friend to try it with his sons (around 10 years old) instead of WHFB because of the simple rules. The WHFB rules are a bit much even for him. He did not know AoS was easier AND free to download at the moment.
AoS can be played by the sons with or without him and is an easy way to have fun with miniatures.

I do expect that this will work out actually and it might save WHFB. And if i was GW, i would not provide advanced rules too soon.

Otherwise these new players would quickly be driven away by the "competitive gamers" that too often do not play for fun and often even take the fun out of it.

I play WHFB since 3rd edition, AoS is not for me, but i understand who it is for and i completely understand that this is a different group as the group that grew too small and did not spent enough on the game to keep it alive.

I my opinion wargaming should be about having fun and creativity, and AoS has that covered.
I also like a game with depth and where skill is a deciding element. AoS is not that.
40k is about 60% in the good direction IMO, Epic is close to perfect.

But for fun you can play anything.
And if you want to paint miniatures, which i do, the game is only part of the hobby.

That's part of the reason I will not play it either, as this game has no depth whatsoever and to me, it also is very bland. There is very little now that makes units standout as many have lost what made them so great in the first place. Good example is my Empire Army with Reiksguard Knights. What I loved about them was not only the Stubborn Leadership, but the fact that like all Empire Knights, they had the great 1+ save which made them very survivable and allowed me to win a ton of games with them as many people where forced to deal with my Halberd Hordes. Now, they hit on a basic roll like many units, wound on the same roll as a lot of basic units, and now come with a normal, average 4+ save even though they are in Full Plate Armor..................................... Good example to what I am very unhappy with about the game, as there is no more flavor (so to speak) for every army and everything is just bland, as I could play a different army but have the same outcome as many units are so similar to each other in so many ways.

AOS is still struggling to get going, and rght now a lot of Veteran Players are now and still persuading younger players not to play it as they say it is a childish, simple game for little kids. Don't agree with it but that's what is happening a lot it seems and so far AOS is still struggling at my store right now. And I still have the gut feeling that this is going to backfire on GW as they alienated a lot of the old, faithful Warhammer Players and I still feel that if they actually put some of the effort that they did into 40k all this time, then they could have kept Fantasy the way it was. But instead they got lazy and tried to reboot the game in a stupid way in my opinion, which is especially odd timing considering that Warhammer Total War is coming out soon and still follows the Timeline from the Old Warhammer Game.

Hard to say. At the club-zero interest that I have seen. In the surrounding area, I have no idea. There are a couple of FLGS but I havent been in since the AoS release.
Since the club WarHamsters are running a charity 8th ed Warhams tournament in October, I'm going to say its probably doing poorly.

The reason that old WFB units have lost their 'zing' is that in WFB a 1+ save with faster movement and good attacks was something you paid points for.
AoS, from the Stormcast and Khornate 'new' units we've seen, there is a perpetual rock-paper-scissors approach - yes, some units are objectively better in certain circumstances, but you don't get the massive gaps between them that a points-based selection allowed for.

The existing army warscrolls are an attempt to shoe-horn stuff designed for an old system into a new one. You put down your reiksguard knights and are dismayed that they aren't as effective in AoS as they were in WFB. Whilst probably overlooking the fact that units you used to view as incidental or cannon-fodder actually became more effective.

If people don't like AoS, they don't like it. But in our area, there are a group of us who love it even at this early stage, and a group who aren't that great at not sneering when watching a game.

Fantasy wasn't the tactical paragon people are trying to make out it was, and AoS isn't the shallow kid's game it's being made out to be either.

 Chute82 wrote:
Not sure how many of you remember 1985 when new coke came out ( yes I am old). It was a flop and angered their loyal customers. AoS is the new coke all over again

OH MY GOD finally someone else who shares my opinion! Also I'm >20 so your not old.

Anyone notice how well AoS sells on amazon?

 bitethythumb wrote:
Anyone notice how well AoS sells on amazon?

Good or bad?

Fairly well. Been seeing a lot of the core sets sold, and lots of the Stormcast blisters/boxes sold as well.

There weren't any Khorne releases until this past Saturday so time will tell on that front. Seen a lot of Wrathmongers and Warshrines get sold though.

That last part is fairly significant as those are part of what is suggested in the core set's included book as "how to expand" for the Khorne stuff.

It is no.304 in the UK Amazon chart of tabletop and wargames, being beaten by Tantive Cruiser for X-Wing, Flames of War Somua 35 tank and other stuff.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
It is no.304 in the UK Amazon chart of tabletop and wargames, being beaten by Tantive Cruiser for X-Wing, Flames of War Somua 35 tank and other stuff.

its number 11 on this

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Toys-Games-Miniature-Table/zgbs/toys-and-games/295325011" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Toys-Games-Miniature-Table/zgbs/toys-and-games/295325011

and it was I believe 4th spot previously

AOS is doing great in my store. The number of new players has doubled and many of the veterans are digging their old armies back out

I was pretty surprised that in the two stores in my area (it sucks, the closest is 25 miles) Age of Sigmar was shown open disdain by the actual owners. One said that "if you liked Warhammer Fantasy before, you'll probably hate this" (I think that was geared more towards the fluff changes, but I'm not really sure), and the other literally told me how he thought even bothering with it past a first experimentation for his store would be a losing proposition for him as he's had a couple of people buy starters, but never show any more interest.

Kind of a bummer, as the latter was a store that I only gave a shot after learning about because it's the only one of the three stores near me ("near" being within 50 miles) that even has tables for playing on at all, and I wondered if AoS, with it's smaller army intro size, would be a good way for me to find players, or god forbid, a casual gaming group (which I have never had before). But the evidence I saw there was lackluster, and showed a lot of the negativity of the open nature of the game that's been bandies about here on the forums (armies of half a dozen giant models, arguing about some of the unit special rules, etc). When you hear even one player arguing about the legitimacy of the "roll of a 13-1st turn win", it's disheartening.

I have painted models for various game systems for nearly two decades, but have never had a group to game with in that time other than a spouse or a buddy or possibly two. Figured I could make a cheap and quick side adventure with an army mainly of Island of Blood skaven, but I'm not really sure if that's the welcome the game gets in my area.

Hopefully if others are having fun, they are also having better luck in their areas.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I was pretty surprised that in the two stores in my area (it sucks, the closest is 25 miles) Age of Sigmar was shown open disdain by the actual owners. One said that "if you liked Warhammer Fantasy before, you'll probably hate this" (I think that was geared more towards the fluff changes, but I'm not really sure), and the other literally told me how he thought even bothering with it past a first experimentation for his store would be a losing proposition for him as he's had a couple of people buy starters, but never show any more interest.

Kind of a bummer, as the latter was a store that I only gave a shot after learning about because it's the only one of the three stores near me ("near" being within 50 miles) that even has tables for playing on at all, and I wondered if AoS, with it's smaller army intro size, would be a good way for me to find players, or god forbid, a casual gaming group (which I have never had before). But the evidence I saw there was lackluster, and showed a lot of the negativity of the open nature of the game that's been bandies about here on the forums (armies of half a dozen giant models, arguing about some of the unit special rules, etc). When you hear even one player arguing about the legitimacy of the "roll of a 13-1st turn win", it's disheartening.

I have painted models for various game systems for nearly two decades, but have never had a group to game with in that time other than a spouse or a buddy or possibly two. Figured I could make a cheap and quick side adventure with an army mainly of Island of Blood skaven, but I'm not really sure if that's the welcome the game gets in my area.

Hopefully if others are having fun, they are also having better luck in their areas.

I suggest bringing 2 painted armies of AoS and start demoing it at the store on a weekly basis, like every sunday, I doubt the store manager is going to tell you no, no matter how many people don't like the game.

It sounds like your going to have to create the interest in the game and start your own gaming group.

I did the above with Bolt Action and expanded the player base from 1 to 15 within about a month, just sat in the store, placed the models on a table, got a friend/ spouse to show up and play the game, and the interest began to flow in from there as people begin to see painted miniatures in play and the dice rolling.

Games Workshop did a crap job on promoting AoS. The players who like it are going to have to take up the slack.

I however dislike AoS, its pretty much dead in the water here, a single release event and crickets since then.

Same as a few weeks ago, fantasy models are shifting as well as they did before the release, as in not at all. 40k still dominates the stores and the AoS boards remain untouched. I think there's legitimate dust gathering.

AoS is selling well, both in gw stores and through trade accounts. It's not doing amazingly, but apparently it is selling at expected volume. So it hasn't smashed it, but it isn't underperforming either.

I checked in with a local store I like to frequent recently. The box set has sold a bit, but mainly to people who play it at home. The ability to do pick-up games (what I'm interested in) is pretty much absent. The manager cited the lack of army-building (aka points) probably being a significant detractor on interest- it's just hard to drop $50 on a five man squad of knights when there's not a strong framework backing them up.

Seems this is the way GW wants things to go. Games are meant to be between groups of friends at home. Sad since the box set is really nice and the cost is decent (although it's hard to tell if that will stay the case with new releases).

 AegisGrimm wrote:

I have painted models for various game systems for nearly two decades, but have never had a group to game with in that time other than a spouse or a buddy or possibly two. Figured I could make a cheap and quick side adventure with an army mainly of Island of Blood skaven, but I'm not really sure if that's the welcome the game gets in my area.

Hopefully if others are having fun, they are also having better luck in their areas.

To echo Comrade, pick up the boxed set, clean up the minis and go in with a friend for a while and just play games. You may not pull in any of the regular 8th edition crew in, but you do have the chance of pulling in new blood who sees a game in action and gets interested and wants to try it out. This is the tried and true best method to generate interest in a game: Play and have fun with it where others can see you doing so. Worst that happens is you just end up playing those same 1 or 2 friends for a while, but best is that you generate some interest and get other people to play. If the complaints are really loud you may want to confer with the store owner about what you'd like to do and ask if they will help keep the complainers away from the table. After all, you generating interest in the game can only help him make money so I would expect he would be accommodating. It might not work, but if you don't try it you'll likely never see a group show up for the game.

It sells really poorly. In facts, it has also hampered the sales of 40k, since a few players (including me) pretty much gave up on all games made by GW because of AoS

It really sucks, but it's true. I have met with a situation when a LGS worker literally discouraged people from buying stuff with AoS in mind telling them to wait before they spend money as the game is bad now and he also actively voiced his loathing towards it when there were two people playing it, eventually leading to them having bad experience with AoS thanks solely to the negative attitude (one of them told me).

So yeah, it's really sad when the workers/owners diss the game, because it really builds up on the negative opinion it gets and without a real reason. The game can even be enjoyable to someone but he will get negative experience with it or will be outright driven away from even thinking about playing it just because someone decided to ruin his fun.

And that's even worse given the fact that each sold copy is literally profit for them, so they're being really stupid as they cut their own sales down with pointless negativity. That's why I enjoy demoing games for my local gamer community no matter what system it is - I play for fun, so I always have positive attitude and do my best for the other player to enjoy the game, so even if he doesn't decide to start collecting it, he will at least have a positive experience to remember for years to come. And this way he can decide himself if he likes it or not, rather than have someone craft the opinion for him. Of course if he asks me if/why I like something I'll just answer his question, but I refrain from preaching stuff. I may list main features for them to see if they are interested in a demo game, but I rarely state my opinion, to prevent influencing their own.

I wish demoing games for people was a paid job, I'd be great at that, haha!

It's been doing well in my local area from being played 4 times a year to 4 times a month.

I think GW might be paying the consequences of treating their LGS section of the market so poorly over the years. It's hard to diss 40k when it makes up a big chunk of your business, but with a new game...
- Whose predecessor was selling poorly due to an over-bloated ruleset with over-bloated armies
- Which destroyed the old game many LGS owners possibly enjoyed (at some point!)
- And doesn't lend itself at all to pick-up play (through the removal of most balancing mechanisms), perhaps actively discouraging people from attending the LGS in the first place

I think these things, coupled with poor treatment by GW(trade relation issues, movement of more items to direct-only channels, issues with LGS not receiving limited edition items at times, and the sheer silence GW has about anything it sells, making planning out things for the LGS extremely risky), has just resulted in a souring tone coming from the stores.

The LGS I was at, the manager didn't seem particularly excited to admit that AOS wasn't selling all that well, and definitely not drawing people into the store. The store has signs up for the game and they have like ten copies of the box set, so they must be at least trying to sell it. It's just all of the hurdles GW puts up to selling their product is turning their vendors against them.

 Accolade wrote:
I think GW might be paying the consequences of treating their LGS section of the market so poorly over the years. It's hard to diss 40k when it makes up a big chunk of your business, but with a new game...
- Whose predecessor was selling poorly due to an over-bloated ruleset with over-bloated armies
- Which destroyed the old game many LGS owners possibly enjoyed (at some point!)
- And doesn't lend itself at all to pick-up play (through the removal of most balancing mechanisms), perhaps actively discouraging people from attending the LGS in the first place

I think these things, coupled with poor treatment by GW(trade relation issues, movement of more items to direct-only channels, issues with LGS not receiving limited edition items at times, and the sheer silence GW has about anything it sells, making planning out things for the LGS extremely risky), has just resulted in a souring tone coming from the stores.

So why attempt to stock it? It's not as if GW give these things out for free.

Dissuading customers from buying copies of games you've purchased for the sole intent of selling isn't a particularly smart protest.

Edit: Thought you were implying they were doing it on purpose. I can see why some stockists may not be enthusiastic, even if it's fairly unprofessional.

Perhaps because GW requires independent retailers to stock a particular range of GW products in order to be able to order the ones they actually want.

It's pretty obvious that GW want to get as many copies of AoS out there as possible, during the launch phase of the game, while all the marketing effort is at its peak.

But for a retailer with limited spelf space, who is selling as much 40K and Infinity as he likes, the 10 boxes of a new, unproven title might be seen as a burden.

Well, I'm not sure how things are with AOS, but I know with WHFB stockists were required to carry a certain amount of WHFB stock alongside their 40k. So they may be carrying the box sets for this reason. Additionally, the new box set is a pretty good deal, and I think that, coupled with AOS being a whole new version of WHFB, there has been some palpable excitement stores owners are hoping to capitalize on.

However, with the way the game works (i.e. lacking in most balancing mechanics- discouraging pick-up play in stores), and some of the new releases costing a fair bit (that Lord-Castellant is $40!!), I'd guess some LGS owners are deciding the game might not be worth their time.

EDIT: and as KK said!

No one in my club bought AoS... and none have any intention of doing so.

But only half of the club play any GW games anyway, and then mainly 40K or 6th Edition WFB.

Im still stuck on deciding whether to start using 3rd Ed. WFB for my games... Not sure Im ready to give up 2nd Ed just yet... Its only been 31 years.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Perhaps because GW requires independent retailers to stock a particular range of GW products in order to be able to order the ones they actually want.

It's pretty obvious that GW want to get as many copies of AoS out there as possible, during the launch phase of the game, while all the marketing effort is at its peak.

But for a retailer with limited spelf space, who is selling as much 40K and Infinity as he likes, the 10 boxes of a new, unproven title might be seen as a burden.

Which is reason to get rid of them as much as possible.

I didn't know they were required to stock certain things and I can understand being down on the game when it's replaced something you've enjoyed, but being negative about AoS will not make me buy 40k figures. I've seen stores close down purely on the basis that the owners are grumps.

I suggest bringing 2 painted armies of AoS and start demoing it at the store on a weekly basis, like every sunday, I doubt the store manager is going to tell you no, no matter how many people don't like the game.

It sounds like your going to have to create the interest in the game and start your own gaming group.

I did the above with Bolt Action and expanded the player base from 1 to 15 within about a month, just sat in the store, placed the models on a table, got a friend/ spouse to show up and play the game, and the interest began to flow in from there as people begin to see painted miniatures in play and the dice rolling.

The problem? The LGS owner literally scoffed to me about a guy who said he was going to do just that- become the store's Warhammer" ambassador and get a group running. The owner's opinion was, "Yeah, we'll see. All my Warhammer stuff's been sitting on the shelves for months, and no one's buying it, while at least the rich kids will buy 40K." He's more interested in players coming in to make purchases, rather than playing on his tables. Because of my BFE area for gaming, I haven't been to that many stores (even in 18 years with the hobby), but I don't actually have seen a more apathetic outlook by a game store owner. I got the impression of "Shrug, it's the other owner who's more into this than me, so do with it what you will. I'm more interested in the money MtG brings. If a game is not going to make me any money, I won't support it."

As much as I like gaming, with a six-month old and a new job, I'm not going to do that work it would take to go against that mindset, which seems completely back-asswards to me. Games only make money if you support them first, not the other way around.

 AegisGrimm wrote:

I suggest bringing 2 painted armies of AoS and start demoing it at the store on a weekly basis, like every sunday, I doubt the store manager is going to tell you no, no matter how many people don't like the game.

It sounds like your going to have to create the interest in the game and start your own gaming group.

I did the above with Bolt Action and expanded the player base from 1 to 15 within about a month, just sat in the store, placed the models on a table, got a friend/ spouse to show up and play the game, and the interest began to flow in from there as people begin to see painted miniatures in play and the dice rolling.

The problem? The LGS owner literally scoffed to me about a guy who said he was going to do just that- become the store's Warhammer" ambassador and get a group running. The owner's opinion was, "Yeah, we'll see. All my Warhammer stuff's been sitting on the shelves for months, and no one's buying it, while at least the rich kids will buy 40K." He's more interested in players coming in to make purchases, rather than playing on his tables. Because of my BFE area for gaming, I haven't been to that many stores (even in 18 years with the hobby), but I don't actually have seen a more apathetic outlook by a game store owner. I got the impression of "Shrug, it's the other owner who's more into this than me, so do with it what you will. I'm more interested in the money MtG brings. If a game is not going to make me any money, I won't support it."

As much as I like gaming, with a six-month old and a new job, I'm not going to do that work it would take to go against that mindset, which seems completely back-asswards to me. Games only make money if you support them first, not the other way around.

Agree with you to a point, however fact doesn't change that if GW actually took the time and some of the effort they put into 40k then they couldn't have saved Warhammer Fantasy. Also, one mate made a great point in the sense that why you even change the old world? The old world was perfectly fine and they didn't have to create some stupid, magical universe with seven different realms/worlds. Makes it sound really slowed to be frank.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Plus this guy's article, while it being nerd rage lol, he does make a lot of points.

http://www.nerdhammer.net/2015/07/05/age-of-sigmar-an-honest-review/

There are a couple gamestores near me that I frequent...one doesn't care at all about GW and what little bit of stock they carry now is at the back of the store in display cases that have boxes stacked in front of them. To no ones surprise AoS is dead there. The other store I go to is a far more inviting environment. The owner came out of Warhammer retirement and actively started gaming with his patrons, many of whom found the game to be a lot of fun. There it is doing well. Shocking, I know.

 streetsamurai wrote:
It sells really poorly. In facts, it has also hampered the sales of 40k, since a few players (including me) pretty much gave up on all games made by GW because of AoS

I gave up on 40k because of AoS as well, it wasn't even a conscious boycott, I just lost heart to it. I am buying fantasy units like crazy to finish my armies (which gw will count under AoS sales probably) but that will be it, goodbye and feth off.

I also wonder why would anyone want to do gw's work and promote their game, I mean if the biggest tt company doing a major release like that cant be arsed to do it properly, they don't deserve players help. Even if someone likes AoS , it's not that good in comparision to other games and gw is not some garage company reaching to community for help but an arogant corporation with illusions of grandeur and straight disdain for their own customers.

I also wonder why would anyone want to do gw's work and promote their game, I mean if the biggest tt company doing a major release like that cant be arsed to do it properly, they don't deserve players help. Even if someone likes AoS , it's not that good in comparision to other games and gw is not some garage company reaching to community for help but an arogant corporation with illusions of grandeur and straight disdain for their own customers

why do you think GW is arrogant corporation with illusions of grandeur and disdain for its customers?

 bitethythumb wrote:

I also wonder why would anyone want to do gw's work and promote their game, I mean if the biggest tt company doing a major release like that cant be arsed to do it properly, they don't deserve players help. Even if someone likes AoS , it's not that good in comparision to other games and gw is not some garage company reaching to community for help but an arogant corporation with illusions of grandeur and straight disdain for their own customers

why do you think GW is arrogant corporation with illusions of grandeur and disdain for its customers?

Probably comes from Kirby's pre-rambles. Him and Mark Wells seem to have actual disdain for tabletop gamers (of all types, I assume)

 Accolade wrote:

 bitethythumb wrote:

I also wonder why would anyone want to do gw's work and promote their game, I mean if the biggest tt company doing a major release like that cant be arsed to do it properly, they don't deserve players help. Even if someone likes AoS , it's not that good in comparision to other games and gw is not some garage company reaching to community for help but an arogant corporation with illusions of grandeur and straight disdain for their own customers

why do you think GW is arrogant corporation with illusions of grandeur and disdain for its customers?

Probably comes from Kirby's pre-rambles. Him and Mark Wells seem to have actual disdain for tabletop gamers (of all types, I assume)

meh, I have been away from this hobby for long time so I have not seen or experienced any of their disdain .. I am also not that thrilled being called a "gamer" as I game very little in this hobby... I may be in the minority but I think I am on GWs side when they say they are in the business of making miniatures... I say get rid of the gaming altogether, let GW store be painting hubs and conversion centers, let other companies make games for the miniatures

 Accolade wrote:

 bitethythumb wrote:

I also wonder why would anyone want to do gw's work and promote their game, I mean if the biggest tt company doing a major release like that cant be arsed to do it properly, they don't deserve players help. Even if someone likes AoS , it's not that good in comparision to other games and gw is not some garage company reaching to community for help but an arogant corporation with illusions of grandeur and straight disdain for their own customers

why do you think GW is arrogant corporation with illusions of grandeur and disdain for its customers?

Probably comes from Kirby's pre-rambles. Him and Mark Wells seem to have actual disdain for tabletop gamers (of all types, I assume)

Not to mention AoS being a giant "feth off" gesture to tourney players who were big part of the player base and that gw themselves have created.

Plumbumbarum wrote:

 Accolade wrote:

 bitethythumb wrote:

I also wonder why would anyone want to do gw's work and promote their game, I mean if the biggest tt company doing a major release like that cant be arsed to do it properly, they don't deserve players help. Even if someone likes AoS , it's not that good in comparision to other games and gw is not some garage company reaching to community for help but an arogant corporation with illusions of grandeur and straight disdain for their own customers

why do you think GW is arrogant corporation with illusions of grandeur and disdain for its customers?

Probably comes from Kirby's pre-rambles. Him and Mark Wells seem to have actual disdain for tabletop gamers (of all types, I assume)

Not to mention AoS being a giant "feth off" gesture to tourney players who were big part of the player base and that gw themselves have created.

Let's not forgot the numerous quotes that came from the Chapter House case, another example of GW's bullying and stupidity.

To our tournament players, it is doing badly.

To our narrative players it is doing well.

Take from that what you will.

WHFB was probably the biggest game at my local club, probably around a dozen players or so. Of these, I would say probably about a third are trying AoS, the same again have started playing 40k again, the other third moving onto other games.

From what I have heard it's similar with the tournament scene. There are some upcoming ones that are trying AoS for the first time (I guess we will see how those turn out), others are using an updated version of 8th edition (their own WHFB 9th).

I don't think a lot of people here realise what a dedicated tournament scene WHFB had in the UK. That's now been split into different directions by the release of AoS, it will certainly be interesting to see how things lie in 6 months.

I managed to get to our club for the first time in yonks this week. There were 2 AoS games, 1 WHFB, 1 KoW, and a sprinkling of Warmachine, Bloodbowl and X-Wing.

The surprising upshot (and the reason why I rearranged 2 meetings to make it) was a demo of Warmaster which had quite a few huddling around. Quite a few people seem to be very interested in getting armies for so if anyone that has any unwanted Warmaster armies let me know as there are plenty of people looking at my club.

Looks like a smashing game and I have even dug out an Undead army I have owned for years that never made it out of the box. This is now on the painting table in place of the old Metal Skellies that I was going to use for AoS.

There's talk of a Tournament being arranges on top of one at another club in November.

There seems to be a real thirst for Fantasy Battles of all flavours here.

I think as with most things at clubs it takes one person to push something a little and it will soon generate player interest.

I decided to check and yep, the local GW club, who were always very resistant to any non GW, or even GW specialist games I suggested, and had a decent Fantasy scene going (almost as strong as the 40k, just a few less people) seem to be playing more Bolt Action than Age of Sigmar lately.
I'm not even sure if anyone picked up AoS actually, I've seen all of one lizardman monster on an oval base on facebook and that's about it.

1 game of AoS so far at my local club.

Bolt Action, Dreadball, Malifaux, KoW, Warmahordes, X-wing are the main games currently.

40k still popular but mostly elsewhere.

In my area AoS has gathered a pretty decent size, probably about infinity and warmahordes by players who haven't play WFB in a while and new players like me who have played other systems but just couldn't get into WFB but love the models. So its pretty great, and every time we play there will be people watching me talking to konrad or my friend shouting waaagh!

bleak wrote:
In my area AoS has gathered a pretty decent size, probably about infinity and warmahordes by players who haven't play WFB in a while and new players like me who have played other systems but just couldn't get into WFB but love the models. So its pretty great, and every time we play there will be people watching me talking to konrad or my friend shouting waaagh!

And other people wishing they could bring their other friends to someplace that isn't quite so embarrassing.

MWHistorian wrote:

bleak wrote:
In my area AoS has gathered a pretty decent size, probably about infinity and warmahordes by players who haven't play WFB in a while and new players like me who have played other systems but just couldn't get into WFB but love the models. So its pretty great, and every time we play there will be people watching me talking to konrad or my friend shouting waaagh!

And other people wishing they could bring their other friends to someplace that isn't quite so embarrassing.

Lol, its less embarrassing than being a totally serious about plastic toys. Like WHY DID MY PLASTIC MEN NOT WIN ME GAMES!? Hahahaha

bleak wrote:



Lol, its less embarrassing than being a totally serious about plastic toys. Like WHY DID MY PLASTIC MEN NOT WIN ME GAMES!? Hahahaha

Yes, any non-minor certainly is highly attracted by a store with loudly screaming youngsters.

 Sigvatr wrote:

Yes, any non-minor certainly is highly attracted by a store with loudly screaming youngsters.

Old timers like me, who can quote rules from 2nd edition from memory, always feel right at home. There's something fun about being the answerman to a generation that treats Google as though it were superior to memory.

AOS is doing very well at the FLGS in terms of sales. There are few organized games going on in the store, but that might be a sign of something else: games are taking place at home.

This makes some sense, the FLGS is where people come to learn to play. With a simplified ruleset, that might not be as necessary.

 Sigvatr wrote:

bleak wrote:



Lol, its less embarrassing than being a totally serious about plastic toys. Like WHY DID MY PLASTIC MEN NOT WIN ME GAMES!? Hahahaha

Yes, any non-minor certainly is highly attracted by a store with loudly screaming youngsters.

If I wanted screaming kids, I'd go to Toys R Us. If I wanted screaming adults...well, I wouldn't. (rock concerts being the exception.)

AoS was pretty steady at a FLGS, then after a few lop-sided games most players started going into other games. Then a large group moved into warmachine, which wasn't being played at all.

Everyone seems happy now.

MWHistorian wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

bleak wrote:



Lol, its less embarrassing than being a totally serious about plastic toys. Like WHY DID MY PLASTIC MEN NOT WIN ME GAMES!? Hahahaha

Yes, any non-minor certainly is highly attracted by a store with loudly screaming youngsters.

If I wanted screaming kids, I'd go to Toys R Us. If I wanted screaming adults...well, I wouldn't. (rock concerts being the exception.)

Then that's your preference. And what's wrong with screaming adults having fun? I know you hate people having fun but hey, I can't say I feel sad for you because in my area, both AoS and warmahordes are doing pretty well and we play side by side each other, and we clearly have no problem with one another.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

bleak wrote:



Lol, its less embarrassing than being a totally serious about plastic toys. Like WHY DID MY PLASTIC MEN NOT WIN ME GAMES!? Hahahaha

Yes, any non-minor certainly is highly attracted by a store with loudly screaming youngsters.

If I wanted screaming kids, I'd go to Toys R Us. If I wanted screaming adults...well, I wouldn't. (rock concerts being the exception.)

screaming WAAAGH!!! has been a part of games at GW stores and events for two decades...
it's not like this is some new crazy thing...
getting in the spirit of the game has always been encouraged by the staff...
if it isn't for you, move on...
there is no need to poo-poo other people's fun...

the Squig Hopper battle we set up at GW Amsterdam for the release of the WFB Empire vs, Orcs starter set was hilarious...
kids hopping up and down the street in front of the Queen's Palace on big red bouncy balls with Squig faces drawn on them, whacking each other with blow-up clubs was too funny...
the kids had a great time, and i'm sure it wasn't even the strangest thing the people on the street in Amsterdam saw that day...
there is nothing wrong with getting into the spirit of fun...

it's not like the game store is a place full of serious people, unlike a library or a museum...
all games have an element of groans and cheers when people are into it, and any game store that is quiet as a tomb is obviously not full of gamers, because they are a pretty boisterous lot when playing, in my experience...
this whole run just seems like sour grapes from people who don't like AoS, unless you guys really don't like fun...
at the end of the day, we are all into toy soldiers...

cheers
jah

jah-joshua wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

bleak wrote:



Lol, its less embarrassing than being a totally serious about plastic toys. Like WHY DID MY PLASTIC MEN NOT WIN ME GAMES!? Hahahaha

Yes, any non-minor certainly is highly attracted by a store with loudly screaming youngsters.

If I wanted screaming kids, I'd go to Toys R Us. If I wanted screaming adults...well, I wouldn't. (rock concerts being the exception.)

screaming WAAAGH!!! has been a part of games at GW stores and events for two decades...
it's not like this is some new crazy thing...
getting in the spirit of the game has always been encouraged by the staff...
if it isn't for you, move on...
there is no need to poo-poo other people's fun...

the Squig Hopper battle we set up at GW Amsterdam for the release of the WFB Empire vs, Orcs starter set was hilarious...
kids hopping up and down the street in front of the Queen's Palace on big red bouncy balls with Squig faces drawn on them, whacking each other with blow-up clubs was too funny...
the kids had a great time, and i'm sure it wasn't even the strangest thing the people on the street in Amsterdam saw that day...
there is nothing wrong with getting into the spirit of fun...

it's not like the game store is a place full of serious people, unlike a library or a museum...
all games have an element of groans and cheers when people are into it, and any game store that is quiet as a tomb is obviously not full of gamers, because they are a pretty boisterous lot when playing, in my experience...
this whole run just seems like sour grapes from people who don't like AoS, unless you guys really don't like fun...
at the end of the day, we are all into toy soldiers...

cheers
jah

I personally will shout NOOOOOO because of saving dice rolls and make death gurgling sound when I remove models.

We have a rather large player group.
But atm there are only 5 members playing AoS.
Some wait for further development, say the release of Aelfs.
Others are not interested playing 40k, WMH, or Oldhammer

there is nothing wrong with getting into the spirit of fun...

it's not like the game store is a place full of serious people, unlike a library or a museum...

See this is a cultur thing. Most stuff done on amsterdam streets would not only be seen as bad here, but get you in to jail to boot. And the serious aspect of the game offten comes from how much the game costs in relative terms.

 MWHistorian wrote:

bleak wrote:
In my area AoS has gathered a pretty decent size, probably about infinity and warmahordes by players who haven't play WFB in a while and new players like me who have played other systems but just couldn't get into WFB but love the models. So its pretty great, and every time we play there will be people watching me talking to konrad or my friend shouting waaagh!

And other people wishing they could bring their other friends to someplace that isn't quite so embarrassing.

Oh, this is truly a difficult proposition in these unsettling times. Just recently, to avoid the embarrassment of the gaming store, I took my fellows to a local "sports bar." There, some ruffian contest was being held on televisions of unseemly size, and to my dismay when either sporting club on these screens would register a point the inebriated hooligans in attendance would begin braying and yelling and making rude comment. I don't mind telling you, so unsettling was this embarrassment upon my social evening that I was forced to depart early, having completed not even half of my fiesta burger and loaded fries.

Is there nowhere left, for gentlemen such as we?

The store owner here pointed out that he sold more Fantasy stuff than 40k stuff during the last four weeks. Thank you AoS!

Oggthrok wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

bleak wrote:
In my area AoS has gathered a pretty decent size, probably about infinity and warmahordes by players who haven't play WFB in a while and new players like me who have played other systems but just couldn't get into WFB but love the models. So its pretty great, and every time we play there will be people watching me talking to konrad or my friend shouting waaagh!

And other people wishing they could bring their other friends to someplace that isn't quite so embarrassing.

Oh, this is truly a difficult proposition in these unsettling times. Just recently, to avoid the embarrassment of the gaming store, I took my fellows to a local "sports bar." There, some ruffian contest was being held on televisions of unseemly size, and to my dismay when either sporting club on these screens would register a point the inebriated hooligans in attendance would begin braying and yelling and making rude comment. I don't mind telling you, so unsettling was this embarrassment upon my social evening that I was forced to depart early, having completed not even half of my fiesta burger and loaded fries.

Is there nowhere left, for gentlemen such as we?

Only Limehouse.

In my area its a mixed bag.

Fantasy was never hugely popular in my area anyway. Of our five or so stores, only two carried any fantasy.

Our End Times campaign had 28 registered players. Our upcoming Age of Sigmar campaign starting up in september currently has 12, which is higher than I thought we'd have.

When 8th came out in 2010 we lost about 2/3 of our community overnight and it took about three years to recover.

The numbers for AoS here are pretty similar..

My FLGS has not sold a single copy. In fact she just did a huge sale on all GW merchandise because shes sick with dealing with them and wants to get out. She even asked me which paint line I prefer. I told her if citadel wasnt so damn expensive i would use them but because they are I use P3 instead.

bleak wrote:
I personally will shout NOOOOOO because of saving dice rolls and make death gurgling sound when I remove models.

LOL. I have done both. More than .... uh.. .I can't count that high

I also talk to my dice, the same way that great goalies talk to their goalposts. Because it works, you know? Just like talking to your plants!

I've been keeping a careful eye on aos thus far in my area, so far we've had roughly 20 people stop playing fantasy and only 2 people pick up aos, while a lot have bought the models, there appears to be zero interest in the game itself, I consider that worrying

Start up league has 20+ players in it.
Last league of 8th had 24.

Once a comp system gets nailed down, I expect it to do better than 8th. And the local store is actually moving product; old stuff and new stuff.

Effectively killed fantasy in one FLGS; visited Saturday and boxes are gathering dust and just 40k being played. Spoke with the regulars who are always about on the weekend and was told no fantasy games to be had in the store. Odd since there used to be regular tournaments and a fair mix of fantasy to 40k in the past.

Anyone else notice the android AoS app prices are wrong? I was looking at the battletome area of the app, currently just the chaos dreadhold. The price in the app is $20.99 but when you click on it, the price is $21.99. I'm sure it's the play store adding a $1 surcharge but every other app in existence takes this into account.

So as it turns out my online store DOES stock AoS. They have just not bothered posting any pics of arriving stock or advertising it at all. Or change their Warhammer Fantasy tab to Age of Sigmar. Or add the Stromcast as a faction to their Warhammer Fantasy tab.

Wait.. Where the hell are Sigmarines then...

Ok to find the Sigmarine units I have to go Hobby>Books and DVDs>Games workshop>Warhammer Fantasy.

Hidden as it is I think it was less sad to think they just never stocked it..

It isn't doing well in our LGS or the clubs. The LGS sales are bad and their shelf space is shrinking, and while there were some games to start with, I haven't seen anyone in a while. Don't know how the GW store is doing. The old WHFB -only club seems to be swearing off GW and migrating mainly to WmH and to a lesser extent KOW, but that is hardly a surprise, I guess.

For the upcoming national championships multi-game system event, there are two people signed up so far. There are no other events hosting AoS.

It doesn't look good.

I have two demo games this weekend, and three other friends who want to start armies.

No too bad.

Forgive my grammar, I am just off work.

My FLGS just got sent some freebie Malefic gates or whatever the boxes of the forts are. The entire set, basically to demo on. There games of AoS and 40k daily on our two and a half tables. Back to the spikey gates though (they are actually so sharp even painted, they will prick you, wtf was GW thinking.) So the gates were sent due to how long the store has worked with GW (every quarter our little store gets free stuff for terrain in return for sending back pictures.) Anyways, it is selling like mad here.

However, as much as I love my fellow gamers and friends, they drink the GW kool-aid. Hard. If it is released, they buy it.

Even if they don't have that army and it means going in to debt. Also, they love FW but, it is a 50/50 split on those who will buy it. Not for the reason you commonly see which is "It's not canon/OP." Half will buy and play FW models or love to play against it but, the other half refuses to buy it because their money goes to FW instead of the shop, since the shop can't stock it. (Weirdest/most redundant reason I've ever heard not to buy from a FLGS.)

AoS is doing really good in my area. There's always been an emphasis on WHFB where I am, and there's only one or two people that seem to be closed off to playing the game. One person in particular makes a fuss every time AoS is played and he's nearby, which annoys the hell out of everyone else.

I decided to give myself a challenge and play as NG, especially since AoS is my first fantasy game based in GW for over 10 years. I've found it easier to play, I don't get bored as the games are usually quite short and it's actually very tactical.

AoS is doing pretty abysmally here, but a great part of that is how GW treats the FLGS, GW has 1 store, noone else carries AoS. but I would also say non selling starters arent really an indicator since if you are not into sigmarines and khorne there is absolutely nothing in the set worth buying, I play AoS but wont buy the starter as I do not play either faction. As for seeing it be played, other than at GW, pretty much nobody. I have to go out of town to get a game, and its starting to be not worth the effort.

Please forgive me if this has been answered already.

Is there any indication on sales numbers etc. that would indicate how well (or not) AoS is doing overall?

 WarAngel wrote:
Please forgive me if this has been answered already.

Is there any indication on sales numbers etc. that would indicate how well (or not) AoS is doing overall?

Not yet, you'll have to wait for the next GW investor report.

The stats on mighty ape (I am fairly sure it sells the most wargame products in NZ) has nearly no GW related goods in the top sellers hobby list besides nuln wash and agrax earhshade. Actually I just checked and stand corrected, its at the bottom of the top sellers list for the first time. It is and was beaten by FLames of War, Kings of war and X wing.

Unless people are buying from GW (at their prices here I would be surprised) then not very well.

Thats just around here though. I don't go into GW so not sure if thats sold many.

Its still an object of derision around here.

To put it simply and not going on a long winded rant ;
The local tabletop wargaming scene was kinda dead before, nothings changed so far. MtG is going strong as ever and I think some people have picked up X-Wing, which the store doesn't even stock.
The only regular (and I use the term loosely) people to play with is me and one other person who even owns Fantasy armies, two others and me with 40K armies.
And while there is a store with a place to play its... less than ideal.

Pretty much sums it up I think

Oh and I'm hearing murmurs of the store giving up on GW and instead focus of the stuff they can actually sell, as in MtG, comics, retro games, used DvDs and books.
To paint you a picture of how well GW products sell; I bought a "Battle For Skull Pass" set last year, new in the box

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
Its still an object of derision around here.

Yea, even children here are doing this. When I was a kid every release from GW was awesome. Times are changing.

People have been playing it and slowly more and more people are coming around to it. There has been no mockery, even from old WHFB players. Everyone is giving it a fair shot and being open-minded about it, and I'm very impressed by my community. No rage at all.

I must say sadly it's pretty dead in my region. The WFB clubs were quite pissed by the change and they did a great job to shoot AoS down.

But then, my area isn't so great in comparison to America's wide zones. So I guess it doesn't mean a lot for GW sales.

Still, my Stormcast Eternals are slowly gathering dust on my showcases by lack of players. Oh well, maybe it will start anew later, when other factions will come out?

We've always been more of a 40K fan base with some Fantasy players. We're still in a lengthy 40K league at present but there has been some interest in AoS but we won't know how much interest until players get the time to try it. So far though the interest has been positive.

 Sarouan wrote:
Oh well, maybe it will start anew later, when other factions will come out?

That's probably a large part of the answer overall. Too early to give a verdict due to having only two faction released while everything else is older edition.

Not doing too bad in my area

We have been running a league night on Fridays at whats probably the largest game shop in the region and its been drawing 6-12 players each week.Some are long time mini players,some returning after a long break and of course regular mini games like myself.Intersting that this large game shop didn't have a regular group for WHFB in recent years though they occasionally hosted tourneys.

We are currently working on a club comp system and scenario mix for events and its been going pretty well with everyone starting new armies or expanding on ones they played in 8th.

I should also note it certainly has its critics/haters in the area as well.There are many who simply wont even touch it,most of them being long time WHFB players that were active in the regional/national tournament scene.Cant really blame then either as it was a huge blow their favored hobby.Im hopefull that over time, we as a community can develop a solid comp system and scenario format that will perhaps bring back some of those who have written the game off.

Good comments about the game I hear a lot;

-Easy to get into rules wise as well as purchase wise.
-Faster paced play
-Much easier to get a multiplayer game going,especially if theres 3 players as you can just split warscroll count between two players and 2v1.Or play a fun team game.
-Players can bring terrain as part of their army.
-Scenario play is THE WAY to go with AOS.

Some not so good comments;


-Luck is at times too much of a factor.
-Keeping track of terrain effects can be difficult without a marker set.
-Of course not having a standard for army building/selection yet is still an issue.
-Some players still don't like model to model measurement.

The store itself is large and has a pretty good stock of AoS along with older Fantasy kits and they seem to be keeping that way with some items moving off the shelf from week to week.

Overall,I think it will continue to grow and be active in the mix of games played within this local community

Try using model to model, but only the "body" of the model. So measure from wings and arms, but ignore standards and spear tips. Makes things feel less silly

There's actually no rules for multi-player games but I suppose you could just roll initiative and go in the order 1,2,3 according to the dice results, re-rolling any draws.

It adds to the luck though, because it makes it possible to have four enemy turns against you before you get a second turn. Things of course get potentially worse as you add more players.

This just might be a coincidence, but since AoS came out, I have seen Wrath of kings make a major uptick in all my FLGs, still no sign of AoS, but most of my old opponents from WHFB are now playing Wrath of Kings...but that anime style lust repels me.

I went to my local GW store on a gaming night and there were 8 people playing AoS. After chatting with them and the staff for a while it's clear that AoS is very popular in my area.

I'm looking forward to creating an army and joining them!

A minor update. I myself am getting into AoS, so are 2 of my close friends. I'm pretty open-minded. But there's 2 things that are happening.


1. Even for those of us that are open to AoS, we've pretty much decided we need to use the unofficial Errata that I believe came from a GW shop (rather than GW HQ). This is the one that clarified some of the rules like not shooting into units already engaged in combat and balance armies based on Wounds.


2. Players are simply moving back to 8th ed. There seems to be a trend that's increasing in popularity. Our FLGS and player community are not embracing Kings of War or other games for a number of reasons, but they do want 8th ed back. I'm very sympathetic towards them.


Again, I'm pretty unbiased. I took it upon myself to buy the AoS book just so that we have some understanding of the setting we're now playing in, lending it to my friends.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
There's actually no rules for multi-player games but I suppose you could just roll initiative and go in the order 1,2,3 according to the dice results, re-rolling any draws.

It adds to the luck though, because it makes it possible to have four enemy turns against you before you get a second turn. Things of course get potentially worse as you add more players.

There are official GW rules for multiplayer AoS games. There is a Battleplan called "A Convergence of Fate" that comes with web orders, and details multiplayer rules. The turn order is much as you describe, although combat is initiated in a clockwise fashion after the player whose turn it is activates.

There are also extra rules for allying and backstabbing.

It looks really fun and I hope to play it at some point.

 Bottle wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
There's actually no rules for multi-player games but I suppose you could just roll initiative and go in the order 1,2,3 according to the dice results, re-rolling any draws.

It adds to the luck though, because it makes it possible to have four enemy turns against you before you get a second turn. Things of course get potentially worse as you add more players.

There are official GW rules for multiplayer AoS games. There is a Battleplan ... ...

That's cool but it's doesn't appear in the first two pages of Google search results so effectively it doesn't exist.

I started playing miniatures way back in the eighties. I owned a game store in the nineties and have worked for GW as an Outrider. I currently own a game store. After all of that time there are several trends that are common. The first is that once a game is no longer produced, it disappears. No matter how hard the player base pushes, it goes away. Here are some of the miniatures games that I enjoyed playing....Chronopia, Leviathan, Warzone (the original version), Vor, Man-O-War, Epic 40k (the good version, not the vanilla blob version), a Fantasy Miniatures game made by FASA (maybe somebody out there remembers the name), Confrontation (metal and pre-paints), AT-40, heck, I'll even include Dust as it has effectively committed suicide several times. Now I'm not saying that somewhere 6 crusty 40 year olds aren't playing Chronopia with the same group they have been playing with for decades. No I'm talking about having a game that I can play in one part of the country, move to another part and have a reasonable chance at finding a group. Now people have pointed out that there has been mixed success with the box set, and that is probably true. I have only sold about 20 of them. But those sales are greatly affected by the fact that the rules and Warscrolls are free, so unless you want to play Stormcast Eternals or Khorne there is no reason to buy the starter. So I would put those sales in the new AOS players column. It is also true that the old guard are taking this hard. They have sworn to move to Kings of War or to help create some kind of WFB 8.5 like the E.T.C. I was one of those guys who was hoping KOW could replace WFB. It can't. For me personally, I just don't like the rules. Really, the only thing they have in common with WFB is that you mount your figures on unit sized square bases, Honestly, there are even better game systems (like Hail Caesar) that do that. And Mantic miniatures got the call that the eighties want their figures back. Another problem that will be fixed in time is that unless you are a Stormcast or Khorne player, your army got nothing new. So for 13 out of the 15 or so armies there was nothing new except Warscrolls, and in particular, Warscrolls that do not have the synergy that the two new armies have. If GW are smart, they will soon be releasing units for the other armies, and more people will start playing the game. Our AOS league is doing just fine. The biggest problem is the lack of points, and the PPC rules on this forum do a great job of taking care of that. I think that is what GW wnted all along anyway. If they had point costed everything, then just like the ETC the fans would have written their own point cost systems, so this just saves them (GW) time and aggravation. The other trend that I have seen is that stores often don't know what to carry. Many of them are glorified card shops, comic book stores, or stores started by owners that don't play miniatures games. In those stores, the trend is to go with the companies that are perceived to be big. Hence they are far more likely to carry AOS miniatures and are far less likely to carry Kings of War (for instance). On my stance on KOW, I don't personally like the game, but if you do, great!! I will sell it in my store and unlike a forum I will cesure what I think about it. But KOW is not WFB, not even close. And I will never carry their miniatures. Well,that's my two cents!

Smellingsalts wrote:
I started playing miniatures way back in the eighties. I owned a game store in the nineties and have worked for GW as an Outrider. I currently own a game store. After all of that time there are several trends that are common. The first is that once a game is no longer produced, it disappears. No matter how hard the player base pushes, it goes away. Here are some of the miniatures games that I enjoyed playing....Chronopia, Leviathan, Warzone (the original version), Vor, Man-O-War, Epic 40k (the good version, not the vanilla blob version), a Fantasy Miniatures game made by FASA (maybe somebody out there remembers the name), Confrontation (metal and pre-paints), AT-40, heck, I'll even include Dust as it has effectively committed suicide several times. Now I'm not saying that somewhere 6 crusty 40 year olds aren't playing Chronopia with the same group they have been playing with for decades. No I'm talking about having a game that I can play in one part of the country, move to another part and have a reasonable chance at finding a group. Now people have pointed out that there has been mixed success with the box set, and that is probably true. I have only sold about 20 of them. But those sales are greatly affected by the fact that the rules and Warscrolls are free, so unless you want to play Stormcast Eternals or Khorne there is no reason to buy the starter. So I would put those sales in the new AOS players column. It is also true that the old guard are taking this hard. They have sworn to move to Kings of War or to help create some kind of WFB 8.5 like the E.T.C. I was one of those guys who was hoping KOW could replace WFB. It can't. For me personally, I just don't like the rules. Really, the only thing they have in common with WFB is that you mount your figures on unit sized square bases, Honestly, there are even better game systems (like Hail Caesar) that do that. And Mantic miniatures got the call that the eighties want their figures back. Another problem that will be fixed in time is that unless you are a Stormcast or Khorne player, your army got nothing new. So for 13 out of the 15 or so armies there was nothing new except Warscrolls, and in particular, Warscrolls that do not have the synergy that the two new armies have. If GW are smart, they will soon be releasing units for the other armies, and more people will start playing the game. Our AOS league is doing just fine. The biggest problem is the lack of points, and the PPC rules on this forum do a great job of taking care of that. I think that is what GW wnted all along anyway. If they had point costed everything, then just like the ETC the fans would have written their own point cost systems, so this just saves them (GW) time and aggravation. The other trend that I have seen is that stores often don't know what to carry. Many of them are glorified card shops, comic book stores, or stores started by owners that don't play miniatures games. In those stores, the trend is to go with the companies that are perceived to be big. Hence they are far more likely to carry AOS miniatures and are far less likely to carry Kings of War (for instance). On my stance on KOW, I don't personally like the game, but if you do, great!! I will sell it in my store and unlike a forum I will cesure what I think about it. But KOW is not WFB, not even close. And I will never carry their miniatures. Well,that's my two cents!

KOW is a hell of a lot closer to WFB than AoS is. It retains the concepts of formations and maneuver, which are the primary facets of pre-gun powder warfare. AoS instead operates along the lines of post rifle skirmish combat, but without the rifles.

Originally WFB assumed that individually troopers represented additional soldiers (as otherwise the battles were stupidly small). At some point GW forgot this, and decided that since battles only made up a hundred or so troops they'd just turn the game into loose mobs of warriors fighting each skirmish style like some inaccurate action movie. This is a complete misrepresentation of how actual warfare functioned, and how it would also function in a fantasy setting.

KOW may not be a clone of WFB (which I'm thrilled with, WFB had a ton of long term issues that held it back), but its a similar game conceptually. AoS lines up like 40k from a concept point of view, which doesn't make any sense for medieval and ancient style warfare.