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We don't play it. We play 8th edition or KoW now.

Its not even selling at the store. We had a funny conversation with one of the employees about the last conversation he had with the GW rep.

"So how's AoS selling?"

"Its not."

"...oh......well let us know when it picks up..."

 gmaleron wrote:
It has become pretty popular where like several others experiences have mentioned, many have dusted off their old Fantasy models and are starting to play games, however there is one pretty big issue. Its almost split half and half but some people want a point system in place to balance the game and others who feel that a point system is not needed. This has sadly split the gaming group in two with several players refusing to play or even get into the hobby unless there is a point system in place and those refusing to play them with one as they prefer to not use a points system. Personally I will play anyone with either format and in regards to AoS I actually really enjoy it but would enjoy some more framework to balance some games. However like others I will not be getting a large force, I am looking at maybe 75 models total using the Island of Blood High Elves and will see how the game holds up and if it hangs around.

Hahaha this is beautiful. How predictable was that? Takes a boorish and arogant company to split their player base just like that and it is the worst part of the release.

On topic, I dont know a single person interested. I asked guys who get into every obscure skirmish kickstarter there is. I asked boardgamers who voiced interest about whfb before but were put off by the amount of work required. I asked whfb players, current and retired. I asked 40k players. It was universaly laughed off.

I also think that the dull and characterless sigmarines would not be that popular if they werent dirt cheap now. It will only get worse when everybody fills up on affordable plastic for conversions and quick games and the models start showing up for the usual price imo.

Have to say that all the posts about the lukewarm reception fill my black heart with glowing shadenfreude. Bite the dust, Sigmar.

Plumbumbarum wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
It has become pretty popular where like several others experiences have mentioned, many have dusted off their old Fantasy models and are starting to play games, however there is one pretty big issue. Its almost split half and half but some people want a point system in place to balance the game and others who feel that a point system is not needed. This has sadly split the gaming group in two with several players refusing to play or even get into the hobby unless there is a point system in place and those refusing to play them with one as they prefer to not use a points system. Personally I will play anyone with either format and in regards to AoS I actually really enjoy it but would enjoy some more framework to balance some games. However like others I will not be getting a large force, I am looking at maybe 75 models total using the Island of Blood High Elves and will see how the game holds up and if it hangs around.

Hahaha this is beautiful. How predictable was that? Takes a boorish and arogant company to split their player base just like that and it is the worst part of the release.

On topic, I dont know a single person interested. I asked guys who get into every obscure skirmish kickstarter there is. I asked boardgamers who voiced interest about whfb before but were put off by the amount of work required. I asked whfb players, current and retired. I asked 40k players. It was universaly laughed off.

I also think that the dull and characterless sigmarines would not be that popular if they werent dirt cheap now. It will only get worse when everybody fills up on affordable plastic for conversions and quick games and the models start showing up for the usual price imo.

Have to say that all the posts about the lukewarm reception fill my black heart with glowing shadenfreude. Bite the dust, Sigmar.

weird I did the exact same thing and most people I spoke with enjoy the game and it sold rather well compared to WHFB at my GW store, I guess people stick in their little circles, bite the dust khorne boys.

Doing really well here. Go to whw on the late nights and it's pretty much all that is being played.

 JamesY wrote:
Doing really well here. Go to whw on the late nights and it's pretty much all that is being played.

no, you are doing it wrong, you need to make a snide comment for people to take you seriously.

Still struggling.
Our store here has closed for two weeks.
In the meantime we will look for some additional rules to improve the game dynamics.

It would appear that in the local scenes where people played the game for the competitive (cutthroat or casually) aspect of the hobby (by which I mean that the models served primarily as the playing pieces for a rules-heavy strategy game where experience, careful moving and forethought, understanding of the sprawling rules system, and how to build potent armies was rewarded), AoS is not fairing very well. This is to be expected - AoS literally does not cater to their expectations of play, or offer the type of gaming contest of skill that they want. Many gaming communities are going so far as to not touch it because they know it's not what 8th was and it's not what they want, which is fine, really. Such a radical change in game type isn't going to be appreciated by 100% of your customer base.

Went to another store recently when visiting a different city. They ad a few boxes of AoS still but everyone was still playing 40k, the fantasy area was dead. They'd even cleared one of the AoS boards to give an intro game for 40k to some guys.

 Los pollos hermanos wrote:
Went to another store recently when visiting a different city. They ad a few boxes of AoS still but everyone was still playing 40k, the fantasy area was dead. They'd even cleared one of the AoS boards to give an intro game for 40k to some guys.

Interesting. Local GW did the same here. When AoS launched, they had 2 shelves filled with AoS starters, now they got 1 shelf and the rest of the boxes are in the backroom. Instead of 1 demo table and 1 AoS play table, there was only 1 demo table. Getting similar reports from other bigger German cities. Guess it has something to do with WHFB being quite popular in EU / Germany and a lot of people being angry about GW deciding to abandon the game.

bitethythumb wrote:
no, you are doing it wrong, you need to make a snide comment for people to take you seriously.

Like you just did?

There is still absolutely no interest in my club. Various previous versions will probably be played instead; happily a Mordheim campaign has also started up.

Our store sold I think 3-4 starters (could have been as little as two,) when the game came out on the first day. They got a poster to display that is borderline a lithograph with dual sides, and then after that they didn't get a set in for another weekish.

Currently the shop has two starter sets in stock, People use their already existing Khorne armies or what they already had in 8th.

Still, lots of support for it in our store. Our store also says that eventually 40k will go this way. I hope it does not.

AoS killed Fantasy for all the players I know, I expected people to be upset but not enough to literally destroy the scene in one night. I went to my local GW for the launch day and it was easily the quietest launch I've ever been in a store for. I got in about 2-3 hours before closing time. The shelves were packed with AoS starter, behind the till were two boxes full of AoS t-shirts that were supposed to be free for people who bought the starter that were still basically full.

The manager dodged my questions about sales. When he found out I already bought a copy from the website he tried pretty hard to sell me a second copy, which was pretty telling.

As for players, the shop had two 40k games going on and two guys in their twenties playing the AoS demo who were talking in hushed tones and giggling like schoolgirls every minute or two. A guy entered and watched them play for a while before he shook his head and walked out.

As far as my local non-GW FLGS goes, I haven't been in but I heard they cut their shelf space for Fantasy back to the minimum amount required to meet the conditions of their trade agreement.

For my $.02

AoS seems to have gotten a few people to trot out the Fantasy stuff that's been rotting on a shelf for three years, try it once or twice, and then put it right back on the shelf and forget about it. I haven't really tried it myself, so I'm not going to comment on the fun factor or anything, but it's apparently just not doing it for the older WHFB players, and isn't drawing anyone new in from what I've seen. The only use people appear to have for some of the new AoS models is for 40k proxies.

WHFB had been dead for a while, and AoS isn't bringing it back. It's just not clicking the buttons for people that WHFB did.

I went into a local FLGS and asked the guy behind the counter how AoS was selling. "I'll tell you when it starts." Not a single copy sold there. Bought some minis and trotted out.

Went into the slightly less FLGS and looked around for a bit. Thin layer of dust on top of the AoS boxes. The look of hope in the manager's eyes as I went to look at them and the look of devastation as I walked away said it all for me.

It's pretty rough.

From my experience working in gw retail, stores sell what the staff are passionate about. I put my grey knights in the cabinet, we sold more grey knights. A colleague painted a beautiful army of valhallans in store and played with them, suddenly AM/IG were selling really well. If the store staff don't believe in AoS, that will affect the buying decisions of their customers. So if it isn't being played in your flgs, I'd be interested to know how the team there feel about it as well.

@rexinvictus that guy allowing the boxes to get dusty kind of emphasises this, how can he expect to promote the game if he allows his stock of it to look like that?

I was at my local independent store on Saturday and they had the whole promo table set up with fully painted models and terrain. They had about 40 copies of AoS nobody was playing or even looking at the promo board. In the game room there were no games of AoS going on. There was 40K, X-Wing, Infinity, Warmahordes, and STAW being played. There used to be at least 2 games of Fantasy going on at any given time, but it seems to have dried up quickly.

Visited a store in Ontario I'll be moving to in the next couple weeks. Apparently fantasy player base went from 2 or 3 die hards, and now its over a dozen guys coming in regularly.

I go to two flgs, both of which have lots of magic, 40k, Warmahordes and X-wing players, but only one has (had) a fantasy group of about 6 players. That's down to 0 players for AoS, and the group is taking the first steps into KoW, along with individuals putting more time into other game systems. Sad, really, as I just started fantasy about 16 months ago, after being burned out from 40ks constant changes.

My group has several players that are heavy into Warhammer Fantasy. Guys that spend thousands on their armies, play consistently in big GT's, and are deep into the hobby. AoS has killed Fantasy for them all. No motivation to play. We play out of a small FLGS that has ordered 4 boxs of AoS. Not one has moved from the shelf since it was stocked. Although we are a small group, AoS has killed Fantasy. Many of them are moving over to 40k or Warmachine.

 JamesY wrote:
@rexinvictus that guy allowing the boxes to get dusty kind of emphasises this, how can he expect to promote the game if he allows his stock of it to look like that?

It's a three storey store. I think it's a matter of priorities.

stores sell what the staff are passionate about.

Totally this. There's been some AoS played in my local GW but the store demo table still has unpainted miniatures on it not one of the staff has a painted and playable AoS force, they struggle to show any excitement for it. The store feels flat and lifeless, doesn't help that the manager is a massive bellend, belittling potential customers.

So far in 3 weeks I've not seen one demo game played, I think there's 2 of us in store buying stormcast, store only seems to get a handful of customers buying things (40k or AoS) on a weekend.

I'm honestly suprised as to how far GW has fallen in the 10 years or so since I played heavily, it's the middle of the summer holidays in the UK, so far I've not seen anyone below the age of 18 playing a game.

I think their whole model needs a shake up, they need to recreate the enthusiasm and buzz of the 2000s in the stores, make them a place customers want to come and chuck some dice about. That buzz sells product. I remember 3rd ed 40k release, in one of the flagship uk stores we had 75ish copies pre ordered and sold the same again on release day, not seen that kind of selling with aos.

Orangecoke wrote:

 Ironwolf45 wrote:

 Motograter wrote:
So like anything. Its either not selling or is. Lol. Its not gonna die anytime soon. GW have put money into it. They will give it a few years. Rumours suggest this has been gw's idea for years and now that they've had the chance to do it they went for it. Look how many years they kept old fantasy going for. Anyone thinking gw is just gonna drop AoS anytime in the near future is gonne be in for a wait

I seriously doubt that fantasy is going away, however if Age of Sigmar does not perform, it is possible that they might keep it as a skirmish based game to learn the rules so to speak and bring back the old structure for Warhammer Fantasy. While I do like what the new version brings in some ways, this is not fantasy and honestly I enjoyed the older style and structure a lot better than this. Sad thing to is that there really wasn't anything wrong with the old game with the exception of some rules and magic being a bit too strong.

Not sure that's the case....

- if AoS fails, it's not really clear to me that GW would bring back the old form of WFB. They killed it for a reason: it doesn't sell. Internally at GW, someone would have to make one hell of a strong business case to get it brought back. I don't think they would be able to justify it on a spreadsheet per se.

- WFB had a lot wrong with it in terms of being a vibrant business that sells well (ie like 40K or Warmachine), more than just a few rules and an over-strong magic phase. Sure I enjoyed a few games of 8th, but evidently the barrier to entry was too high and existing vets weren't buying enough stuff.

If AoS fails I think GW would basically sell just 40K and the odd spot release like the Assassin board game, Space Hulk etc. And that might mean closing their stores and going direct only.

It's the reasons above that have me hoping AoS succeeds - because I really, really like GW fantasy models. Can't stand Mantic's for example. Privateers are nice and honestly if they went hard/sprue plastic I think they would deal GW a serious blow - I think their lousy plastic material and metal models hold them back tbh.

Anyway, I'm rambling lol.

I am sorry this is a little off topic but I feel i need to comment about this. Their plastic is really restic as far as everyone can tell. Metal miniatures are the only realistic material to mass produce miniatures in , in an economic cost sense, especially when your doing a Skirmish game because its a little crazy to spend 5 to 20 thousand dollars on a single mold and hope it sells well!? HIP plastic is an inferior material for miniatures sure its great for "toys" but real miniatures that are not going to sell in a mass thousands of fans are done in metal and resin because HIP plastic is an unrealistic material to produce miniatures in end of story ( also you get nothing but flat detail in plastic compared to the amazing stuff done in metal and resin and all HIP sci fi and fantasy companies produce nothing but 80's heroic scale minis and nothing of true scale ( excluding historical guys who yes some do true scale).

Besides that i feel bad for my local club that had stocked 40 of the starter boxes and not a single one has sold ( far as i knew their was a big fantasy community in my area and now it is 100% gone), their is one box gone but that is for of course their display . All in all i think the best thing for fantasy gamers now is to look into new games as i am sure their are many that gamers would enjoy. I still find it funny that GW went with a skirmish game, yes i think it is the right scale for 28mm miniatures , large scale battles just doesn't work in 28mm. However i knew right of from the start this game would not do well, GW doesn't know how to write rules and their going to go and compete against all the great skirmish games out their? i think it is very clear now that they do not know anything about the market place. Which bodes well for market diversity but i think its safe to say in my area they have dug themselves a grave when it comes too their fantasy range.

My own enthusiasm for GW products waned when White Dwarf went down the toilet last year.

WD and the Horus Heresy novels were the only things connecting me to the hobby - I have got hundreds of Warhammer models and a nice Chaos force for 40K but no real enthusiasm to build it all up, partly because I can't paint (and am currently still too ADHD to learn), partly because AoS killed Warhammer, but also due to the negativity of GW "fans" in general.

I don't want to play against power-gamers and serial complainers, I only want to play people who play for love of the game, which I reckon is what AoS is all about.

I am thinking more and more that I'd like to give AoS a try. It might have ditched a lot of things we care about, but it's also ditched the moaners and haters.

 NoPoet wrote:
My own enthusiasm for GW products waned when White Dwarf went down the toilet last year.

WD and the Horus Heresy novels were the only things connecting me to the hobby - I have got hundreds of Warhammer models and a nice Chaos force for 40K but no real enthusiasm to build it all up, partly because I can't paint (and am currently still too ADHD to learn), partly because AoS killed Warhammer, but also due to the negativity of GW "fans" in general.

I don't want to play against power-gamers and serial complainers, I only want to play people who play for love of the game, which I reckon is what AoS is all about.

I am thinking more and more that I'd like to give AoS a try. It might have ditched a lot of things we care about, but it's also ditched the moaners and haters.

To be honest, I agree with you on the whole powergamers thing, but that's something that could've been solved with reasonable theme forces.

In Glasgow, and it's slightly hard to tell here.

I do know that I've not met a single person face to face who's expressed interest in AoS. The best reaction I've seen is a few people glumly continuing to give it a fair go. The hobby club I go to on weekends is particularly caustically negative, possibly even more so than a lot of places I've seen on the web if that's even possible.

That said, we don't have an independent store around these parts, or at least not one big enough to have tables for pickup games... So I don't have any independent stocker tales.

In the GW, well for context first: Apparently Glasgow GW is, in terms of overall GW product sales, one of the best performing branches of GW in the UK, at least according to the manager's bragging. He may just be bragging, who knows. I have no hard data. But it is fairly believable in that it's a busy shop with staff who're frequently having trouble juggling all the people coming in and out.

That established, I've seen a reasonable number of AoS sales happen. Less people hanging around in the shop though... And kind of a quietly oppressive atmosphere. Staff are avoiding repeat customers in favour of new people coming in the door to an extreme level even by their usual standards. Games I've watched people play have a lot of complaining about how bad it is, rather than seeming to particularly enjoy themselves. Bunting with Sigmar symbols dangles from the roof low enough to hit the heads of the particularly tall. AoS decorations on every wall. Nobody but the staff looking particularly happy. It's a lot harder to even get 40k pickup games at the moment, nobody seems in the mood.

Four times the wall space Dark Vengeance has is dedicated to the AoS Starter, and as a result I can't quite tell whether it's being sold enough to justify that, or if they just have excess stock on display from underselling expectations.

Overall: Badly received but somehow selling anyhow. Might just be the worst of both worlds in this area.

I've seen one person at my store buy it. The shelves are still full. The owner admited that there's no interest in it.
The only other person I know who has bought it, bought it because he literally buys everything from all systems. His house is like a museum of gaming. He did admit that he felt dirty buying it.

Its selling really well in my area, people just having fun with it, the thing i have noticed in my area is it attracting a lot of middling age players who left this hobby behind in late teens/early 20s now returning after having a family and enjoying how simple the rules are and that they can literally just buy whatever they like off the shelves, paint it up, roll some dice and have a laugh on their weekly night away from the family.

Talking to them, they all mostly say the same thing, that they kept an eye on GW over the years but this made them decide to jump back in.

If this is one market GW was trying for who knows but its working in my area.

I wonder if there is a difference between regions. Is it doing better in UK as opposed to the US? Australia? Asia? I would love to see numbers on that.

 JamesY wrote:
Doing really well here. Go to whw on the late nights and it's pretty much all that is being played.

Aye I noticed lots of AOS being played in whw during the week, was even a game of AOS going in the GW in town as well.
Seems to be doing well in the midlands.

One would hope that it was being played at WHW.....