So, who is heading to atc this weekend, what are you taking, and where you coming from?

I'm fully expecting whomever on your team that plays eldar just steamrolling the competition with uncomped str d eldar with a war host featuring a windrider host and 5 auxiliary wraith knights to steamroll most lists. This is pretty much the list everyone feared when they read the eldar codex and this tournament is going to be a great litmus test on how broken uncomped eldar truly are.

Due to the nature of the format the WK spam will probably often get easy draws as most players will want to avoid it like the Black Plague.

gungo wrote:
I'm fully expecting whomever on your team that plays eldar just steamrolling the competition with uncomped str d eldar with a war host featuring a windrider host and 5 auxiliary wraith knights to steamroll most lists. This is pretty much the list everyone feared when they read the eldar codex and this tournament is going to be a great litmus test on how broken uncomped eldar truly are.

Yes Eldar are good. But let's look at this from another perspective. Everyone is going into this knowing how good Eldar are and have several lists ready to face them. I'll tell you now that my team doesn't fear the pointy eared bastards! And I will be there as always with my Nids.

Being brave.. going with Dark Eldar.

I don't think there are many lists that can handle four or more WK.

My centstar can handle them.

Cool - too bad you're not going this year. :(

 Dozer Blades wrote:
I don't think there are many lists that can handle four or more WK.

You can fit 5 wraith knights with a windrider host in a Warhost at 1850.
This makes the wraithknights even more manurveable and since the windrider host is full of warlocks and a farseer you will have plenty of psychic support for those Knights.

I can see flyer heavy armies giving them some issues such as jy2s list of the eldar doesn't take a lot of anti air support. But even swarm lists or drop grav lists will have issues with them. Eldar are the list to beat in Atc so congrats to any non eldar codex player that's able to do it. I'm sure many people will be watching ATC just to see how eldar fare.

Im heading to Chattanooga, TN from faraway Nashville, TN

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Cool - too bad you're not going this year. :(

Just a minor detail.

I will be there in spirit.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
I don't think there are many lists that can handle four or more WK.

Frankly I think that 4 WK is too unbalanced to do well in an ATC format. They won't be racking up kill points against non-vehicle armies and lack ObSec so I don't think can win progressive. Emperors Will and Control the center/relic I can see them winning, but they have too many little KPs from the Windrider host to be effective in my mind. Of course they can simply overwhelm lesser army lists but I can honestly think of several effective counters.

I think wk spam will finish in top 2-3 .

I am heading up from Atlanta and bringing nids. I have taken a look at a lot of the team lists and most teams have at least one list tailored to the WK spam. Surprisingly not every elder player went that route. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I think we will see the opposite problem at NOVA with them not allowing Knights or WK. It will be all wind rider spam and space marine spam with a few war convocations thrown in.

 Fishboy wrote:
I am heading up from Atlanta and bringing nids. I have taken a look at a lot of the team lists and most teams have at least one list tailored to the WK spam. Surprisingly not every elder player went that route. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I think we will see the opposite problem at NOVA with them not allowing Knights or WK. It will be all wind rider spam and space marine spam with a few war convocations thrown in.

The bao allowed forgeworld and a single Superheavy and it was still windrider and battle company spam so I think your observation is correct.

Just from what I have read of the lists, there is still a LOT ofWK out there... And a lot of Grav!

Are you not coming this year? I did not see your team or your name on any of the lists.

 Fishboy wrote:
Are you not coming this year? I did not see your team or your name on any of the lists.

Not sure who this is aimed at, but I will be there! Jy2 will not though sadly, if that's who you're asking.

I shall be there from Smyrna, TN

Bringing the Silver Tide (crons)

I was curious where some of the older teams were. No quality co trol. No fluffy bunnies. No wrecking bols.

Blade and Bolter is back again.

calltoarms wrote:
I was curious where some of the older teams were. No quality co trol. No fluffy bunnies. No wrecking bols.

Unfortunately, the Fluffy Bunnies disbanded when 7th came out. Now we are scattered unto the 4 winds....

BTW, you can check out their (meaning mine) experiences here:


08/21/13 - Team Fluffy Bunnies Goes to the ATC - 2K Draigowing + Necrons

calltoarms wrote:
I was curious where some of the older teams were. No quality co trol. No fluffy bunnies. No wrecking bols.

The players from wrecking bols will all be there. Just split onto two teams now with I think team texas and forge the narrative being the distinction if not the team names.

Quality Control simply couldnt make it logistically work this year though we almost had a last minute change of heart this week. 3 out of the 5 of us fly out to Europe next week as part of Team USA to play in the ETC... so it was hard to coordinate the extra time off for ATC just a week ahead of that.

I'll be there, as one of the two (only 2?!) harlequins players in attendance. Driving down from Western New York tomorrow early morning.

Dude where are you from in NY? I have been trying to get DaBoyz back in but no luck.

I think the War Convocation and Centstar provide sufficient counters to WK spam. Of course, it's all about how the match-ups fall.

Good luck to everyone - hope everybody made it in safe to Chattanooga.

Lo there do I see my Father
Lo there, do I see my mother
and my sisters and my brothers.
Lo there do I see the line of my people, back to the beginning!
Lo they do call to me,
They bid me take my place among them.
In the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live FOREVER!!!!

Blade and Bolter!!!!

For old times sake, give em Hell, Boyz!

EXTREMELY disappointed in the dice down ruling that was sprung upon several people apparently. No mention in either tourney pack or faq of this uncommon ruling. So my opponent got an entire extra turn on me and I was not allowed to finish literally a 1 minute turn. Talked to several tourney vets and all have agreed that it's extremely poor form for a tourney to spring such a ruling on folks without any heads up in any of the tourney documents.

Doubtful I'll be returning...

I am not aware of this issue but I am glad to see people holding to times. Last year there were several teams that went way over time to get that last turn while 200 other people waited on them. I have been going to a lot of tournies over the last decade or so and I am glad to see a tournament where time means time. The time clock is on the wall over the judges table for reference so don't let your opponent bully you into a turn you can't finish.

Chicago Kamikazes are currently in first place .

Not surprisingly elder tied for first, tied for third, and 5, 6, 8 so far on points scored.

perrin23860 wrote:
EXTREMELY disappointed in the dice down ruling that was sprung upon several people apparently. No mention in either tourney pack or faq of this uncommon ruling. So my opponent got an entire extra turn on me and I was not allowed to finish literally a 1 minute turn. Talked to several tourney vets and all have agreed that it's extremely poor form for a tourney to spring such a ruling on folks without any heads up in any of the tourney documents.

Doubtful I'll be returning...

Man this is so disappointing, How fare is that when one person gets to take one more player turn than his opponent? what the heck is going on down there?
Feel for ya man, sorry to hear of this BS.

What's the max points out of a round? It's 33 to max out a single game so is it 165 a round or does it cap out at some point?

wighti wrote:
What's the max points out of a round? It's 33 to max out a single game so is it 165 a round or does it cap out at some point?

That's correct - 33 max per game, 165 per round

perrin23860 wrote:
EXTREMELY disappointed in the dice down ruling that was sprung upon several people apparently. No mention in either tourney pack or faq of this uncommon ruling. So my opponent got an entire extra turn on me and I was not allowed to finish literally a 1 minute turn. Talked to several tourney vets and all have agreed that it's extremely poor form for a tourney to spring such a ruling on folks without any heads up in any of the tourney documents.

Doubtful I'll be returning...

Wow what a total load of soy sauce.. I mean what the heck did that judge smoke. I demand seppuku to redeem himself.. until then his whole family lacks honor!!

Tsilber wrote:

perrin23860 wrote:
EXTREMELY disappointed in the dice down ruling that was sprung upon several people apparently. No mention in either tourney pack or faq of this uncommon ruling. So my opponent got an entire extra turn on me and I was not allowed to finish literally a 1 minute turn. Talked to several tourney vets and all have agreed that it's extremely poor form for a tourney to spring such a ruling on folks without any heads up in any of the tourney documents.

Doubtful I'll be returning...

Man this is so disappointing, How fare is that when one person gets to take one more player turn than his opponent? what the heck is going on down there?
Feel for ya man, sorry to hear of this BS.

What he's leaving out is that you are supposed to agree with your opponent before starting a game turn as to whether there is time for another. If they didn't pay attention to the instructions or the time left then....

FWIW, that you should stop playing when your time limit expires should not shock anyone, and shows a clear misunderstanding of what "time expiring" means. Time's up. That's it.

That other tournaments allow play to continue is them being forgiving, not Shane and crew doing something that should surprise you.

Further, its been like this for at least the last two years, and as a cognizant player in the game, you need to manage your time as much as your opponent does, and if you feel they are overstepping, you need to be proactive, not reactive.

They've played that way for at least 7 years. They also run tournies on-time.

Tournaments start and run on time? WHAT MAGIC IS THIS?!

Best ATC ever !

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:

Tsilber wrote:

perrin23860 wrote:
EXTREMELY disappointed in the dice down ruling that was sprung upon several people apparently. No mention in either tourney pack or faq of this uncommon ruling. So my opponent got an entire extra turn on me and I was not allowed to finish literally a 1 minute turn. Talked to several tourney vets and all have agreed that it's extremely poor form for a tourney to spring such a ruling on folks without any heads up in any of the tourney documents.

Doubtful I'll be returning...

Man this is so disappointing, How fare is that when one person gets to take one more player turn than his opponent? what the heck is going on down there?
Feel for ya man, sorry to hear of this BS.

What he's leaving out is that you are supposed to agree with your opponent before starting a game turn as to whether there is time for another. If they didn't pay attention to the instructions or the time left then....

'

I fail to see your point... One person got an extra turn. It is a tournament with toy soldiers, not the changing of the guard at buck palace... The rules of the tourney should never be so rigid that it creates an extreme act of unfairness towards one of the players.

I see you guys talking about taking turns, and the rules for 2 years say X and manage time better.... Lets face it, its a fun tourney, or should be at least. And regardless, if you agree on one more turn and then one person takes much longer on said turn for whatever reason, regardless of anything else, player 2 should get his fair ups.

Now if the tourney pro's want to win and have pride in taking one extra turn than their opponent, or are banking on their opponent forgetting something or being rushed.. Well congrats I guess, what a true champion...

I believe the point is that it's a player's responsibility to make sure 1.) there will be enough time, and 2.) hold the opponent responsible for not taking more than their share of remaining time.

Yes, it should be for fun, but this is an event with ~250 players involving some complicated scoring to determine following round pairings. If you don't enforce a strict dice down policy you'll get terribly behind and have 246 players waiting on 2.

If you have concerns about finishing the turn, total up the points then and only agree to continue if the opponent agrees to take their turn in less than half the remaining time. If they don't, you go back to the scoring from before the turn began. Break out a stop watch if need be.

Printed rules are printed rules. As stated, the TO is a volunteer with responsibilities beyond making sure people are reading rules, standing up for themselves, and not getting legally gamed. It doesn't make gaming the clock, sportsmanlike by the way. But waiting until dice down and then expecting to argue your individual way out of it is a little late. It's also impossible for a TO who wasn't there to judge. The player who got "screwed" could just as easily have been gaming time himself, planning to be guaranteed the chance to finish his turn for objective grabs without having to worry about rolling to see if the game went another turn.

I'm not saying that's what happened, but how would a TO changing a tournament rule for fairness have any idea which side to choose, and then what about all those tables where the same thing happened but the player just shrugged and thought "well that sucked."

Best course is not to call out the entire tournament with a vague, one sided story full of heat of the moment angst. This is the kind of stuff that scares the uninformed off attending events in the first place.

Roughly 50 teams and 250 people and the event ran smoothly and on time. A great time had by all that I enocuntered. Congratulations to the top three....especially team happy for the win.....my thanks to Shane and crew for running what is the most strategic and challenging tournament I've ever been to. Great competiton from all!

Tsilber wrote:


I fail to see your point... One person got an extra turn.

Yeah, that shouldn't happen, totally agree. The solution? Pay attention to the announcements when they say "Don't start another Turn if you cannot both finish that turn." Pay attention to the clock and agree with your opponent as to whether you can both get another turn in. It's definitely not a super important rigid event, that's why the entirety of the participants shouldn't have to wait for you to finish your game turn that you shouldn't have started in the first place.

I see you guys talking about taking turns, and the rules for 2 years say X and manage time better.... Lets face it, its a fun tourney, or should be at least. And regardless, if you agree on one more turn and then one person takes much longer on said turn for whatever reason, regardless of anything else, player 2 should get his fair ups.

I have agreed in the past to another turn only if we record points before it and go back to those points if both players don't get their turns in. I have also had to stand my ground against a player with less than 20 models in his entire army arguing we could get my player turn AND another game turn in in 21 minutes. I was playing guard (and had just taken all of the objectives from him in a single turn) and had about 40 models left on the table. No way I could get in a full turn in 7 minutes.

Now if the tourney pro's want to win and have pride in taking one extra turn than their opponent, or are banking on their opponent forgetting something or being rushed.. Well congrats I guess, what a true champion...

I have seen Shane make exceptions for the top tables. If the contenders need a few more minutes to get an equal amount of turns in it is sometimes allowed. There's usually more judges present at the top tables to regulate this issue as well. So really, it's people placing 44th instead of 43rd that get affected by this, not the top qualifiers. Nice little dig though, it helps your argument....really!

Dice down rule is fine but someone should never get an extra turn in a tourney. Best way to handle it would be to ignore the last turn of someone wasn't given enough time to finish his turn. If not you will run into situations where your opponent cheats his way to a free turn. You will run into situations where you think you have time for another turn ~15+ min and your opponent slow plays and eats up the time to win. The only way to solve this is by ignoring that last turn. Everyone should have at least 5 min for thier last turn. That's the only fair rule.

Also do people still think necrons are overpowered when they still couldn't break the top 10 armies in points (best ranked 15)
And do people still think elder don't need to be comped when 7 out of the top ten armies were elder. I think the atc pretty much validates most of the str d comps and the single super heavy comps most tourney uses.

They had the clock up on the wall and you couldn't miss it. I had one game that the time was very important and I kept a steady eye on it.

GREAT ATC!!!!!!!

CONGRATES TO TEAM HAPPY FOR WINNING

THANKS TO MY TEAM MATES ON "DEATH SPIRAL DOWNWARD" FOR HAVING A GREAT FIRST YEAR IN THE THUNDERDOME THAT WAS OUR SCHEDULE.!!!!

Already thinking about next year.

Tsilber wrote:
I fail to see your point... One person got an extra turn. It is a tournament with toy soldiers, not the changing of the guard at buck palace.

[...]

Lets face it, its a fun tourney, or should be at least.

[...]

Now if the tourney pro's want to win and have pride in taking one extra turn than their opponent, or are banking on their opponent forgetting something or being rushed.. Well congrats I guess, what a true champion...

What an absurd sequence of thoughts. "It's just a game about toy soldiers, therefore it is so incredibly important that 210 people should bend backwards to ensure one person (who could not follow clearly stated rules) is not caused to lose a turn."

Those two people aren't playing in a vacuum. There's literally hundreds of real people with real schedules involved. You cannot hold up a tournament because one person can't follow rules.

I was with Team Happy, and we happened to win the whole tournament--and one of our players wasn't even able to stick around for the announcement. He had to leave for the airport as soon as he turned in his score sheet. We had to text him that we actually won while he was sitting at the terminal. If the event had gone 30 minutes over schedule, he would have missed his flight. So, for the sake of showing a realistic example of the other side of things, we're certainly very happy with Shane and crew for running a tight schedule.

Big thanks to those guys for running a really amazing event, particularly considering how complicated all the pairings and interactions between teams are--I've run a smaller GT myself and judged at larger ones, but ATC is a whole different thing in terms of format, and they handle it really well. Was consistently impressed by the quality (and number) of their floor staff and judges, too. Even with ~210 people, it seemed to never take more than ten seconds to locate a judge when one was needed.

And a shout out to Death Spiral Down (as a team) and Neil (specifically) for handing us (as a team) and me (personally) our/my only round losses. We knew you guys were going to be a rough matchup for us coming in. I certainly didn't expect MSU Necrons to be the thing that wrecked me in a field full of 4 Wraithknight and 5 Imperial Knight lists. Lucky for us, our friends in the Kamikazes got some minor revenge for us in the following round.

I love have most of the angst and righteous anger comes from people not in attendance. This was a wonderful event and as noted, the dice down rule has years of notice and precedence. It took two to mess it up.

calltoarms wrote:
I love have most of the angst and righteous anger comes from people not in attendance.

^ This.

The game in question was the last game of day 1. There were no players waiting on us. Many had left and some were also finishing up too. We began the last turn with 20 minutes left. My opponent took about 15 minutes to do his turn leaving maybe 5 minutes. I didn't mind as he and I knew my last turn would take very little time. It just required moving a model to contest the relic and resolving a small combat. Literally 60 Seconds max. We began figuring out the points before i did my 1 minute turn just to easily wrap up the after game, by acknowleging who had each primaries and secondaries and such, and also congratulating each other on a great game. I guess that ate up my 5 minutes. Both myself and opponent told the judge just that. He said no.

Overall it wasn't that I was disappointed I couldn't earn points for my team, but that I was unfairly treated. We were not the last to turn in our score sheets so the minute for my turn would not have mattered to anyone really. There were still many people hanging out and wrapping up for the day.

It's not my first atc. Been going for the last 4 years... even won it one year... I've been an avid promoter of their event. Love the style and all the folks. Every game I played was amazing, and the teams awfully fun. Made new friends and caught up with old ones.

Overall Shane and folks do a fine job. Always been impressed. It's why I continue to give them my money. But any judge who is so obtuse to refuse someone their last turn, a 1 minute turn, is an ass. It pissed me off greatly. I'm generally considered an easy going guy. Very agreeable and just happy to play games and not work. Some folks I guess...

DJ3 wrote:

Tsilber wrote:
I fail to see your point... One person got an extra turn. It is a tournament with toy soldiers, not the changing of the guard at buck palace.

[...]

Lets face it, its a fun tourney, or should be at least.

[...]

Now if the tourney pro's want to win and have pride in taking one extra turn than their opponent, or are banking on their opponent forgetting something or being rushed.. Well congrats I guess, what a true champion...

What an absurd sequence of thoughts. "It's just a game about toy soldiers, therefore it is so incredibly important that 210 people should bend backwards to ensure one person (who could not follow clearly stated rules) is not caused to lose a turn."

.

Let me rephrase and Edit: Your attacks and thought process in your very first sentence, and the over exaggeration in the part about "210 people bending over backwards..." is comical...
First off 2 people taking 10 minutes is not forcing 210 to bend over backwards.. frankly not even the slightest.

You won, congrats for your team. But the guy who originally posted about not having the fair amount of turns on day 1, should have gotten his turn, back during the insignificant rounds pertaining to the people who might not of had a chance to win, but still payed to play and have a good time. I understand there are rules, and a lot of should of , could of... But no one knows of the conversation or the facts pertaining to the that final turn as time approached.

Apparently because I did not attend my argument must be moot anyway... I forgot this portion of thread was for people who only played in the tournament of the thread topic. My bad...



Automatically Appended Next Post:

perrin23860 wrote:
The game in question was the last game of day 1. There were no players waiting on us. Many had left and some were also finishing up too. We began the last turn with 20 minutes left. My opponent took about 15 minutes to do his turn leaving maybe 5 minutes. I didn't mind as he and I knew my last turn would take very little time. It just required moving a model to contest the relic and resolving a small combat. Literally 60 Seconds max. Both myself and opponent told the judge just that. He said no.

Overall it wasn't that I wasn't so much that I was disappointed I couldn't earn points for my team, but that I was unfairly treated. We were not the last to turn in our score sheets so the minute for my turn would not have mattered to anyone really. There were still many people hanging out and wrapping up for the day.

It's not my first atc. Been going for the last 4 years... even won it one year... I've been an avid promoter of their event. Love the style and all the folks. Every game I played was amazing, and the teams awfully fun. Made new friends and caught up with old ones.

Overall Shane and folks do a fine job. Always been impressed. It's why I continue to give them my money. But any judge who is so obtuse to refuse someone their last turn, a 1 minute turn, is an ass. It pissed me off greatly. I'm generally considered an easy going guy. Very agreeable and just happy to play games and not work. Some folks I guess...

And now the witness of the game is here to speak about the facts, which makes it even more ridiculous that he didn't get a last ups.... A 1 or 2 minute turn, at the end of day 1, no one waiting on them to finish... Cmon, poor decision not to let him take his final turn.

perrin23860 wrote:
The game in question was the last game of day 1. There were no players waiting on us. Many had left and some were also finishing up too. We began the last turn with 20 minutes left. My opponent took about 15 minutes to do his turn leaving maybe 5 minutes. I didn't mind as he and I knew my last turn would take very little time. It just required moving a model to contest the relic and resolving a small combat. Literally 60 Seconds max. We began figuring out the points before i did my 1 minute turn just to easily wrap up the after game, by acknowleging who had each primaries and secondaries and such, and also congratulating each other on a great game. I guess that ate up my 5 minutes. Both myself and opponent told the judge just that. He said no.

Overall it wasn't that I was disappointed I couldn't earn points for my team, but that I was unfairly treated. We were not the last to turn in our score sheets so the minute for my turn would not have mattered to anyone really. There were still many people hanging out and wrapping up for the day.

It's not my first atc. Been going for the last 4 years... even won it one year... I've been an avid promoter of their event. Love the style and all the folks. Every game I played was amazing, and the teams awfully fun. Made new friends and caught up with old ones.

Overall Shane and folks do a fine job. Always been impressed. It's why I continue to give them my money. But any judge who is so obtuse to refuse someone their last turn, a 1 minute turn, is an ass. It pissed me off greatly. I'm generally considered an easy going guy. Very agreeable and just happy to play games and not work. Some folks I guess...

This is a much more useful / better post than the first one. Thanks for clarifying.

perrin23860 wrote:
The game in question was the last game of day 1. There were no players waiting on us. Many had left and some were also finishing up too. We began the last turn with 20 minutes left. My opponent took about 15 minutes to do his turn leaving maybe 5 minutes. I didn't mind as he and I knew my last turn would take very little time. It just required moving a model to contest the relic and resolving a small combat. Literally 60 Seconds max. We began figuring out the points before i did my 1 minute turn just to easily wrap up the after game, by acknowleging who had each primaries and secondaries and such, and also congratulating each other on a great game. I guess that ate up my 5 minutes. Both myself and opponent told the judge just that. He said no.

Overall it wasn't that I was disappointed I couldn't earn points for my team, but that I was unfairly treated. We were not the last to turn in our score sheets so the minute for my turn would not have mattered to anyone really. There were still many people hanging out and wrapping up for the day.

It's not my first atc. Been going for the last 4 years... even won it one year... I've been an avid promoter of their event. Love the style and all the folks. Every game I played was amazing, and the teams awfully fun. Made new friends and caught up with old ones.

Overall Shane and folks do a fine job. Always been impressed. It's why I continue to give them my money. But any judge who is so obtuse to refuse someone their last turn, a 1 minute turn, is an ass. It pissed me off greatly. I'm generally considered an easy going guy. Very agreeable and just happy to play games and not work. Some folks I guess...

Perrin if that was the case and it was just a matter of movement to contest the relic why did you and your opponent just not agree it was contested and score it that way? Sounds like a simple fix to your simplified complaint.
Last year I saw some of the top teams go way over in time and it pissed off 200 other people. We were waiting for match ups while two teams continued to play well past the time limits. This may have contributed to the hard stance but I still think a simple agreement between you and your opponent was the easy fix.

Agree that second post phrases the issue much better. Well stated.

They had a variety of judges on hand to manage roughly 125 games at a time. The judges made some great calls. They made some bad calls. They made some subjective calls. But. At all times I personally found that thry listened to both sides, asked for references to the rule book, and even co suited with other judges. Indeed, we were allowed to "appeal" our judges ruling when he openly admitted he was not confident. No ego....just trying to get it right.

Be careful, as your first post did, in disparaging a great event for one bad moment. Be careful too in your second post of referring to a judge as obtuse when you have no idea what mandate he was under. Time was a stickler.

Now. It does sound very clear that your opponent really cheesed you. That, frankly, seems the more apt reference and direction for thr obtuse comment.

This is troll fest now.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
This is troll fest now.

King Troll calling troll > Troll or Truth?

The thread is no longer serving any useful purpose.

Actually the clarification of the game in question helped. Someone pointing out the importance in rules being enforced due to scheduling and catching flights home was a good statement in support of the argument.
And the feedback from people on how and when rules could,should or can be enforced/lenient has been beneficial...

Far from a "troll-fest"...

Now where are the results to the this party? Wanna see how Alex F. did.

So someone felt shorted. Probably every major event has some whoopsie happen. Why are you so fixated on it ??

 Dozer Blades wrote:
So someone felt shorted. Probably every major event has some whoopsie happen. Why are you so fixated on it ??

I don't think anyone is fixated on anything. The thread didn't really have a negative tone, and the clarification provided was helpful. I love you, man, but you're one of the biggest trolls on these forums, so you can understand people finding it ironic that you're trolling further by calling out people for trolling.

In other news, I heard some pretty awesome things about ATC again! Looking forward to catching up with everyone about it at NOVA over a few beers and games.

Yep, I had a blast with my first time at the event. Definitely coming back next year, now that I know a lot about the way the matchups end up falling.

Being a team captain is stressful, because you want to ensure you get a good matchup because you have the power, but a good captain sometimes has to take one for the team to keep everyone happy. Sometimes I wish I didn't anchor as Harlequins haha.

Continuously complaining that a thread is pointless and over while useful discussion was still happening is verging on spam and rudeness. Don't

Good to have the rule to make sure things run smoothly. Would be nice for organizers to judiciously allow minor common sense exceptions, but where does that stop? Tricky situation for organizers because if they make an exception someone else is going to get mad about it for happening or that they didn't get the same treatment. I would be fine with organizers allowing OP to finish his turn, but can't be mad at them for not doing so.

Alex finished 55th overall. You can see all the team standings and individual standings at www.whatc.org

 Fishboy wrote:
Alex finished 55th overall. You can see all the team standings and individual standings at www.whatc.org

Thanks man.

Anybody know what the 3rd place daemons was? Please tell me its not one of those super match up/mission dependant lists with max screamers Tz'eralds and Fateweaver. . .

Damn, Dung had a bad weekend!

Who won Best Army?

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Anybody know what the 3rd place daemons was? Please tell me its not one of those super match up/mission dependant lists with max screamers Tz'eralds and Fateweaver. . .

Follow the link to find out what team he was on then follow this link, look up his team folder, then his list:

https://drive.google.com/a/dicehead.com/folderview?id=0B1UJJbcAXWEGfnZ3WjlsX0U0TnJZRDd3ZWI5Q0JBTEo1SFQwNVpvV3RFeGVvdmV1ZGZoX1k&usp=sharing

These are all the team lists

Tarzan won best painted

 astro_nomicon wrote:
Anybody know what the 3rd place daemons was? Please tell me its not one of those super match up/mission dependant lists with max screamers Tz'eralds and Fateweaver. . .

It was a mixed 2-Herald Screamerstar/30 Flesh Hound list. Asylum finished near the middle (actually almost exactly in the middle), so I'm not real sure what he was playing against. We only played against one other Daemon list, and that was the Kamikazes in the 4th round, which we matched against our Battle Company.

Most of the top teams didn't have a Daemon list at all. Out of the top 10 teams, there was only me (Screamerstar, 155 pts), Alan's on the Kamikazes in 7th (FMCs, 138 pts), Kevin Drury on Name Pending in 9th (Nurgle Daemons,102 pts), and EJ Walsh on Borderlands Gaming in 10th (FMCs, 61 pts)

Edit:

For comparison, the top 10 had:

9 Eldar (7 featuring WKs; The General Staff Kill Team being the only top-10 team without Eldar)
7 Imperial Knights
7 Space Wolves (5 being SW/DA BikeWolf armies)
6 Space Marines
6 Necrons
6 Tau

This is off my reference documents for the tournament and might not be exactly correct, but it looks like everything else was represented on less than 5 of the top 10 teams. If you combine Cult Mechanicus and Skitarii, there were technically 5 of those, but 2 were on the same team, so they were still only represented on 4 teams.

Eldar - 34
Space Marines - 30
Necrons - 27
Tau - 18
Tyranids - 18
Space Wolves - 15
Dark Angels - 14
Adeptus Mechanicus - 12
Daemons - 11
Orks - 11
Imperial Guard - 9
Imperial Knights - 9
Chaos Marines - 8
Blood Angels - 7
Grey Knights - 7
Sisters of Battle - 6
Dark Eldar - 4

It does not show on my list but I think there were two Harliquin lists too

Had a great time this year! Was good to be back....thanks for carrying the heavy load that it is to have me on your team Fishboy!

 Fishboy wrote:
Eldar - 34
Space Marines - 30
Necrons - 27
Tau - 18
Tyranids - 18
Space Wolves - 15
Dark Angels - 14
Adeptus Mechanicus - 12
Daemons - 11
Orks - 11
Imperial Guard - 9
Imperial Knights - 9
Chaos Marines - 8
Blood Angels - 7
Grey Knights - 7
Sisters of Battle - 6
Dark Eldar - 4

It does not show on my list but I think there were two Harliquin lists too

For what it's worth, this list isn't particularly representative of the actual armies, except maybe the very top few (Eldar/Marines/Tau).

ATC's categorization is done by Primary Detachment alone, and frequently had mistakes (which isn't a big deal, since all it's used for is these stats on the result page). But for instance, there were way more than 9 Knight lists, but most people don't run Knight Warlords and instead have their Warlord on their token allies, which makes that their primary detachment. Also, Khorne Daemonkin-primary armies appeared to be categorized as either Daemons or Chaos Space Marines somewhat at random. And as you mentioned, Harlequins were left off entirely.

That said, it still does a good job of showing how heavily those top few armies influenced things.

Was a great weekend. Our team captain Chris Anderson took best general with only 3 WK lol. But of my 6 opponents only had an issue with one and it was not major. Staff did a great job.

BigDogg82 wrote:
Was a great weekend. Our team captain Chris Anderson took best general with only 3 WK lol. But of my 6 opponents only had an issue with one and it was not major. Staff did a great job.

I know he did! If only my GK player had ended the game on turn 6, then my SM player would have had top!

And Fishboy, yes, there were two Harlequins players, that for some reason got lumped into the Eldar category, even though we had pure harlequin army lists(well, mine was, the other had a Callidus assassin).

 Dude_I_Suck wrote:

BigDogg82 wrote:
Was a great weekend. Our team captain Chris Anderson took best general with only 3 WK lol. But of my 6 opponents only had an issue with one and it was not major. Staff did a great job.

I know he did! If only my GK player had ended the game on turn 6, then my SM player would have had top!

And Fishboy, yes, there were two Harlequins players, that for some reason got lumped into the Eldar category, even though we had pure harlequin army lists(well, mine was, the other had a Callidus assassin).

Were you Team Rage Quit Flip?

 Aldonis wrote:
Had a great time this year! Was good to be back....thanks for carrying the heavy load that it is to have me on your team Fishboy!

My back hurts

We definitely thought 5 WKs wasn't the best way to go--3 or 4 seemed to be the sweet spot. Five leaves you with no support whatsoever aside from an essentially naked Windrider Host.

Our 4-WK list beat two 5-WK lists (Alex Fennel's and River City 40k's), and the only loss it took was to a 2-WK list with 6x squads of Warp Spiders, which was the Kamikazes' anti-WK list and a bad pairing on our part.

We actually matched our WKs against the other team's WKs in every round (minus the two teams we played who didn't have a WK list). Ours wasn't inherently designed to be a counter-WK list (like the Kamikazes'), but instead we just figured we'd let those lists cancel each other out at worst, since not much else matches up well against it except tailored Grav lists. Tony just happened to play WK-on-WK matchups incredibly well and came out on top in all but the one.

Meanwhile, the problem with the tailored Grav lists is you can't generally force a WK list into the pairing. There were lots of Grav Skyhammers and they didn't seem to fare particularly well, since the WK lists just avoided them. In fact, by my count there were twelve Skyhammers (not all Grav, but certainly the vast majority) which means a full quarter of the teams had that specific list--but only one of those teams ended up in the top 10.

 jy2 wrote:

 Dude_I_Suck wrote:

BigDogg82 wrote:
Was a great weekend. Our team captain Chris Anderson took best general with only 3 WK lol. But of my 6 opponents only had an issue with one and it was not major. Staff did a great job.

I know he did! If only my GK player had ended the game on turn 6, then my SM player would have had top!

And Fishboy, yes, there were two Harlequins players, that for some reason got lumped into the Eldar category, even though we had pure harlequin army lists(well, mine was, the other had a Callidus assassin).

Were you Team Rage Quit Flip?

Yep, it is the team I put together so Josh could still go.

Other fun statistics (I'll get around to more some time soon)...

Number of times each Race was the highest ranked race in their team:

Eldar - 15 out of 34
Space Marines - 8 out of 30
Necrons - 6 out of 27
Adeptus Mechanics - 4 out of 12
Space Wolves - 3 out of 15
Tau - 2 out of 18
Daemons - 2 out of 11
Dark Angels - 2 out of 14
Dark Eldar - 1 out of 4
Chaos Marines - 1 out of 8
Orks - 1 out of 11

(Need to do some more fiddling now to find something like - when was faction X the highest ranked on their team, when they ALSO had a faction which placed higher on other teams. Ie, which teams had Tau do better than Eldar)

Trasvi wrote:
Other fun statistics (I'll get around to more some time soon)...

Number of times each Race was the highest ranked race in their team:

Eldar - 15 out of 34
Space Marines - 8 out of 30
Necrons - 6 out of 27
Adeptus Mechanics - 4 out of 12
Space Wolves - 3 out of 15
Tau - 2 out of 18
Daemons - 2 out of 11
Dark Angels - 2 out of 14
Dark Eldar - 1 out of 4
Chaos Marines - 1 out of 8
Orks - 1 out of 11

(Need to do some more fiddling now to find something like - when was faction X the highest ranked on their team, when they ALSO had a faction which placed higher on other teams. Ie, which teams had Tau do better than Eldar)

While cool, I don't think it means much as a statistic. There is too much that goes into matchups on each team strategy wise. Our team actually led an Imperial Knight list in one set of pairings specifically to try and draw out the Eldar 5 wraithknight list because we felt that it would give us four better match ups for our other lists.

 Dude_I_Suck wrote:

 jy2 wrote:

 Dude_I_Suck wrote:

BigDogg82 wrote:
Was a great weekend. Our team captain Chris Anderson took best general with only 3 WK lol. But of my 6 opponents only had an issue with one and it was not major. Staff did a great job.

I know he did! If only my GK player had ended the game on turn 6, then my SM player would have had top!

And Fishboy, yes, there were two Harlequins players, that for some reason got lumped into the Eldar category, even though we had pure harlequin army lists(well, mine was, the other had a Callidus assassin).

Were you Team Rage Quit Flip?

Yep, it is the team I put together so Josh could still go.

Cool. Josh and Garner were on our team, Team0Comp, but we had to disband due to a couple of drops. Good to see Josh's Centurions rock it big time.

BTW, I played against a member of your team at the BAO (Jon running Daemonkin). Very cool guy.

I had a great weekend running the marines on Death Spiral Down (Fennell ' s team as you all say) this past weekend! Hopefully we'll be back with the same team next year!

Congrats to everybody who played!

Trasvi wrote:
Other fun statistics (I'll get around to more some time soon)...

Number of times each Race was the highest ranked race in their team:

Eldar - 15 out of 34
Space Marines - 8 out of 30
Necrons - 6 out of 27
Adeptus Mechanics - 4 out of 12
Space Wolves - 3 out of 15
Tau - 2 out of 18
Daemons - 2 out of 11
Dark Angels - 2 out of 14
Dark Eldar - 1 out of 4
Chaos Marines - 1 out of 8
Orks - 1 out of 11

(Need to do some more fiddling now to find something like - when was faction X the highest ranked on their team, when they ALSO had a faction which placed higher on other teams. Ie, which teams had Tau do better than Eldar)

Call me crazy, but I think you left Nids off! I know of at least two teams where Nids were the top scoring player.

Is best Dark Eldar an accomplishment if there are only 4 players?

Still... 29th out of 240, i will take it!

 Anglacon wrote:
Is best Dark Eldar an accomplishment if there are only 4 players?

Still... 29th out of 240, i will take it!

Lance?

I was the "Eldar" on our team and skewed the stats a bit. The Eldar were primary with a Farseer, WK, and 3 small scatbike squads. Most of the points went into a Household IK detachment. Did pretty well, though I left a few points on the table over the weekend. lol... I would have been the top IK player by a large margin.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And congrats to Shane, Chris and crew. We had a great time, as always!

Coldsteel, was your list the beautiful "necron" themed eldar/knight army?

calltoarms wrote:
Coldsteel, was your list the beautiful "necron" themed eldar/knight army?

That sounds cool, any pics from the event?

Conversions are pretty good but the paint's really rough. Surprised that the awesome rebel grot army didn't get best army:

It did get best painted. My teammate David "Tarzan" Jensen painted it. Coincedently, also on the same team as the Knight/Eldar 'Crons!

calltoarms wrote:
Coldsteel, was your list the beautiful "necron" themed eldar/knight army?

Yep, that was me. Had a great time converting them up, but of course can't hold a candle to Tarzan's painting!

I'm glad to see the discussion is back on track how awesome was ATC this year.

: )

 gardeth wrote:

 Anglacon wrote:
Is best Dark Eldar an accomplishment if there are only 4 players?

Still... 29th out of 240, i will take it!

Lance?

Yup

Had a blast! Looking forward to next year already!

 Anglacon wrote:

 gardeth wrote:

 Anglacon wrote:
Is best Dark Eldar an accomplishment if there are only 4 players?

Still... 29th out of 240, i will take it!

Lance?

Yup

Had a blast! Looking forward to next year already!

My daemons are still reeling from our game, though I am already looking at taking my own DE out of mothballs

Lol glad to hear it. I had a lot of fun that game!

 gardeth wrote:
It did get best painted. My teammate David "Tarzan" Jensen painted it. Coincedently, also on the same team as the Knight/Eldar 'Crons!

Oh, someone told me that the Knight/Eldar won for some reason.

I had a great time, and we were really happy with 4th place. All of our 6 games were against teams that included great players, so no easy matches for us lol.

Hopefully they'll be some tweaks to army comp and format ahead of next year. Looking forward to the feedback survey.

My feedback: get rid of that god awful battlescribe requirement!

 Anglacon wrote:
My feedback: get rid of that god awful battlescribe requirement!

Why? I LIKE being able to read and understand all my opponents lists.

My only negative feedback would be to not have the mousy voiced lady make the anouncements.....

My only negative feedback would be to not have the mousy voiced lady make the anouncements.....

I 100% agree, especially after playing directly in front of one of those speakers when she talked for about a full minute of yelling/screeching/squealing

 Master Shake wrote:
I had a great weekend running the marines on Death Spiral Down (Fennell ' s team as you all say) this past weekend! Hopefully we'll be back with the same team next year!

Congrats to everybody who played!

IF YOU GUYS VOTE ME THE CAPTIAN WHEN IM NOT THERE , IT BECOMES PARKERS TEAM!!!!

 Dude_I_Suck wrote:

BigDogg82 wrote:
Was a great weekend. Our team captain Chris Anderson took best general with only 3 WK lol. But of my 6 opponents only had an issue with one and it was not major. Staff did a great job.

I know he did! If only my GK player had ended the game on turn 6, then my SM player would have had top!

And Fishboy, yes, there were two Harlequins players, that for some reason got lumped into the Eldar category, even though we had pure harlequin army lists(well, mine was, the other had a Callidus assassin).

I tried helping by letting your marine player table me. I like to tell myself I helped them both get to 1st and 2nd.

 gardeth wrote:

 Anglacon wrote:
My feedback: get rid of that god awful battlescribe requirement!

Why? I LIKE being able to read and understand all my opponents lists.

Battlescribe has quite a few problems, the biggest of which is that there isn't a real "primary" data file repository (like there is with ab40k Maintainers for Army Builder). It seemed that this was mostly a problem for newer Codexes--as a Codex ages, it seems the "best" file eventually gets decided on, and everybody adds it to their repository. But when going through the lists, I found they'd been made with probably 4 or 5 different versions of the Dark Angels Codex file, and at least two versions of the Space Marine Codex file. Weirdly, there were also at least two versions of the Space Wolf file floating around.

There's also no enforced uniformity between the outputs. The lists can actually be very confusing to read. The following are all different variations of ways I saw a unit of Canoptek Wraiths (3 with Whip Coils) be listed:

6 Canoptek Wraiths
3x Canoptek Wraith, 3x Canoptek Wraith with Whip Coils

Canoptek Wraiths
3x Canoptek Wraiths

Canoptek Wraith w/ Whip Coils
3x Canoptek Wraiths

Canoptek Wraiths
Canoptek Wraith, Canoptek Wraith, Canoptek Wraith, Canoptek Wraith w/ Whip Coils, Canoptek Wraith w/ Whip Coils, Canoptek Wraith w/ Whip Coils

There were honestly probably more, and keep in mind that a unit of Wraiths is a pretty simple unit in regards to wargear. It's frequently far more confusing when you're instead talking about units with differently-named Sergeants. Okay, this unit says 3x Centurion Devastators, then has a sub-entry for Centurion Devastator Sergeant. Is that a unit of 3 Cents? Or a unit of 4 Cents? The answer is: it could be either, because it's kinda random as to whether or not the person who wrote the data file counted the Sergeant into the original unit count, or kept it separate. I ended up basically just looking at the title line and the full points cost and using that to extrapolate how many models were in the unit.

Battlescribe also doesn't have a PDF output by default, which means the organizers were forced to have people submit raw Battlescribe files, which are cumbersome at best. I spent hours manually converting all of the files to PDF so my team would have easier access to the lists. At least a quarter of the lists (mostly DA/SW/SM, as noted above) did not match my data repository files, and were left with points or wargear options missing.

They should require a repo (battlescribedata.appspot.com is the only one that matters anyway) and should require a cliff notes version of the list as well.

DJ3 wrote:

 gardeth wrote:

 Anglacon wrote:
My feedback: get rid of that god awful battlescribe requirement!

Why? I LIKE being able to read and understand all my opponents lists.

Battlescribe has quite a few problems, the biggest of which is that there isn't a real "primary" data file repository (like there is with ab40k Maintainers for Army Builder). It seemed that this was mostly a problem for newer Codexes--as a Codex ages, it seems the "best" file eventually gets decided on, and everybody adds it to their repository. But when going through the lists, I found they'd been made with probably 4 or 5 different versions of the Dark Angels Codex file, and at least two versions of the Space Marine Codex file. Weirdly, there were also at least two versions of the Space Wolf file floating around.

There's also no enforced uniformity between the outputs. The lists can actually be very confusing to read. The following are all different variations of ways I saw a unit of Canoptek Wraiths (3 with Whip Coils) be listed:

6 Canoptek Wraiths
3x Canoptek Wraith, 3x Canoptek Wraith with Whip Coils

Canoptek Wraiths
3x Canoptek Wraiths

Canoptek Wraith w/ Whip Coils
3x Canoptek Wraiths

Canoptek Wraiths
Canoptek Wraith, Canoptek Wraith, Canoptek Wraith, Canoptek Wraith w/ Whip Coils, Canoptek Wraith w/ Whip Coils, Canoptek Wraith w/ Whip Coils

There were honestly probably more, and keep in mind that a unit of Wraiths is a pretty simple unit in regards to wargear. It's frequently far more confusing when you're instead talking about units with differently-named Sergeants. Okay, this unit says 3x Centurion Devastators, then has a sub-entry for Centurion Devastator Sergeant. Is that a unit of 3 Cents? Or a unit of 4 Cents? The answer is: it could be either, because it's kinda random as to whether or not the person who wrote the data file counted the Sergeant into the original unit count, or kept it separate. I ended up basically just looking at the title line and the full points cost and using that to extrapolate how many models were in the unit.

Battlescribe also doesn't have a PDF output by default, which means the organizers were forced to have people submit raw Battlescribe files, which are cumbersome at best. I spent hours manually converting all of the files to PDF so my team would have easier access to the lists. At least a quarter of the lists (mostly DA/SW/SM, as noted above) did not match my data repository files, and were left with points or wargear options missing.

Yeah I liked the idea of all the lists in one format and being sent in early. Very much what I was used to in many tournaments in Europe. But not being used to BS I found myself having a hard time figuring out what was in a list. I had one Guard list that was essentially a small book to read. I thought I saw what I needed to be on the look out for in the list. But somehow missed the 2nd Executioner...... I thought this was just my problem but than I heard many others were having the same issue.

fair enough

I'd probably delete that, there's not much to be gained restarting a dead argument online.

I live in Tennessee, I game with folks who send a team every year. Last two years the military has seen fit to ensure I was somewhere else in July.

Not next year though.