Hello
i am just wondering what people will do if 40k gets sigmarized. as 4 me and my gaming group we will turn to fan made content

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/658751.page

Probably fit more games in to my busy weekly schedule. "100 wounds vs 100 wounds? No problem!"

SJ

 hanshotfirst wrote:
Hello
i am just wondering what people will do if 40k gets sigmarized. as 4 me and my gaming group we will turn to fan made content

Like any reasonable person, I'll drive across the US of A and burn down every GW I see.

Probably start playing again. I gave up in 6th edition because it got too expensive and I disliked the direction the rules were moving. So I have heaps of figures on round bases and would welcome free rules and codexes.

 hanshotfirst wrote:
Hello
i am just wondering what people will do if 40k gets sigmarized. as 4 me and my gaming group we will turn to fan made content

Give it a try, and if I don't like it, then I'll decide.

I've been told it's fun for warhammer, so I figure it deserves a chance.

Continue playing small, 500-point games with whatever rulesets we choose, or doing narrative games with home-brew rules and lopsided points-values, based on events in the campaign.

Or, you know, continue playing Dark Heresy and the other FFG RPGs, which are the best things to happen to the franchise in twenty years.

well, be sad, maybe play 7th with those who were willing. Maybe sell off all my 40k models to focus only on Horus hersy, if HH went AoS as well, probably go to bolt action and bring as many with me as possible.

See if it works better than 40k's current system - if not play the version we already do.....

Laugh, for days!

Listen to others who've played it, and give it a try. From there it depends.

I'd probably drive to gw hq and slap everyone in the building, then try the game

Keep playing 7th edition, try to get behind whoever's popular enough to fix 7th edition into a living rulebook.

Check out other, more balanced games i.e. Warmahordes and X-Wing.

I'd probably continue playing whatever the previous edition was, possibly try to glom on to a fan ruleset. There's always the outside chance that they'll fix AoS, too. I mean theoretically. In the same sense that all the atoms in my body could suddenly decide to jump 5 feet to the left.

I'd probably give it a shot. Depends what the outlook was seeming like. Right now, I'm not planning on buying any more Fantasy miniatures because I can foresee a near future where suddenly all of the older, pre-AoS stuff becomes obsolete and the warscrolls for those units are dropped.

I'd give it a shot. Is AoS really that terrible that this would be bad enough to quit?

I'll probably move over to infinity if after trying the game I don't like it, I will probably play whatever edition exists during that time in spite of it all and use that rule set to host cities of death community campaigns at my local gw hobby centre.

If 40k turned into a skirmish game with essentially no rules? Id quit and sell off all my armies..if they would still have worth considering alot of people would do the same.

Start to play infinity more offten, if am lucky or warmahordes if am less lucky.

what will you do if 40k gets sigmarizationed?

If 40k were in the state that WHFB was when it was sigmarized, I'd try out the new ruleset, decide weather it's fun and if I have any opponents in my area. If both of those turn out true, I'd stay with sigmar 40k. Otherwise I'd stay with 7th edition and wouldn't invest in any miniatures anymore.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I'd give it a shot. Is AoS really that terrible that this would be bad enough to quit?

I wouldn't call it bad, rather than new, different and very simple. For me, it's been fun and quick to play so far and it revived an otherwise completely dead WHFB community in my area. One of the store clerks told us it's been months since they last sold a whfb box, until the arrival of AoS.

Quit, sell what I can, and get more into Bolt Action and Warzone.

Start playing again. 40k has become to bloated, too slow and too expensive to keep up with rule books and changes. Free rules, a smaller system and faster game. I would go for that. More so if it could be played on a 4x4 table. 6x4 is just too big.

Ignore it.

I've got the 6th edition BRB and my HH books, so i'm set from hereon.

Probably keep playing and avoid Dakka for a few weeks/months.

Free rules are welcome.

The quality of those free rules, using AoS as an example, would not be.

I'd probably just play 5th with some friends. Cheaper anyways, buying old codices second hand and already having the rulebook. Then I'd just tweak and modify the rules to improve it.

I feel that AoS is a joke and not even a finished game. For a company with 30 years of rules writing experience, and all the competition in the market, I'd expect the market leader to produce the highest quality rules.

 Blacksails wrote:
Free rules are welcome.

The quality of those free rules, using AoS as an example, would not be.

I'd probably just play 5th with some friends. Cheaper anyways, buying old codices second hand and already having the rulebook. Then I'd just tweak and modify the rules to improve it.

I feel that AoS is a joke and not even a finished game. For a company with 30 years of rules writing experience, and all the competition in the market, I'd expect the market leader to produce the highest quality rules.

GW executives are little more than skeletal husks at this point, the carrion lords of tabletop wargames. Only the thousands of dollars sacrificed in their name every day provides then with any sort of sustenance.

I would probably keep playing 7th, perhaps with some houserules here and there, as I'm sure many would, if they don't go back to even earlier editions. Despite the occasional praise I see on these fora (manufactured or otherwise), AoS has been doing terribly in sales. They haven't even managed to sell every copy of the limited edition.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Probably fit more games in to my busy weekly schedule. "100 wounds vs 100 wounds? No problem!"

SJ

Ah, the good old 100 Guardsmen vs 100 TSons Terminators

Or 16 wraithknight and a 4 man jetseer council.

I actually think that AoS had actual promise and could have been something really good, so if implemented correctly the game could become a lot of fun. What would not be fun is the lack of points and stupid rules that let you instant win through Bell and Fateweaver, or get bonuses for the bigger beard. If they continued that I'd go to 5th. Although I've been told that Tyrannids really sucked back then. *sigh*

Honestly I don't know, aos is awful and I really don't like it, it's not warhammer, I get that, but it's not a game I want to play, if they do the same to 40k... I'm done, I'd even consider a class action suit, e.a was held to account (and several other companies) for bad design and poor, unfinished games, gw is doing exactly the same.

Skip 40k and stick with playing FFG's rpgs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Is AoS really that terrible

Yes.

Hope that GW goes down faster than ever so someone competent can take over.

niv-mizzet wrote:
Hope that GW goes down faster than ever so someone competent can take over.

I mean...I can understand the rationalization behind that, but I still would much rather GW just started acting like nearly every other wargame company.

Yes, I'm fully aware the chances are near zero that will happen, and I'm also aware its at least in part due to them being a public company and a large one (relatively speaking) at that.

Still, I have fond memories of 5th, and even enjoyed the occasional game of 6th, despite its flaws and my dislike of the direction the game took.

At least we have FFG putting out quality 40k products.

I'd laugh.
Hard.

Start playing again

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
Start playing again

Why?

Rage for a bit and then enjoy a game not weighed down by a ton of rules.

See if I can get people to go back to 5th/4th.

I had lots of fun with those.

 oni wrote:
Rage for a bit and then enjoy a game not weighed down by a ton of rules.

by bad rules. Good rules can and should enhance a game.

And no rules will destroy a game. Might as well be roleplaying on Gaia Online or something.

Probably just keep playing Hearthstone :3

 MWHistorian wrote:

 oni wrote:
Rage for a bit and then enjoy a game not weighed down by a ton of rules.

by bad rules. Good rules can and should enhance a game.

I don't view 7th Ed. as "bad" rules, just overburdening. Games don't move smoothly, there's constant stoppage to check The Rules and/or to check a Codex... And not because they're bad, but because there are SOoo many rules no one can remember them all.

I just want to play, throw some dice, have some fun... My fun becomes severely diminished as the downtime adds up checking rules, special abilities, stats, etc.

I'd be lieing if I were to say that I didn't give serious thought to putting my W40K involvement on hiatus to play WAoS. I may still. I'm waiting to see how things evolve. I've played two games of WAoS, both of which were immensely fun. No stoppage, no constant checking of rules, only a periodic, cursory glance at a warscroll.

It would be an improvement over 7th, so I'd probably play more.

Happily play more game with the models I want against others who feel the same way.

 Chumbalaya wrote:
It would be an improvement over 7th, so I'd probably play more.

Let's not get crazy. 7th is bloated, sure, but at least it has rules. Going to the other extreme--no rules of which to speak save for a phoned-in PDF--is even more unplayable by severalfold, especially when half of it is devoted to fourth wall-breaking, childish gak. You may as well dump your models on the table and challenge your opponent to a game of "Rock, Paper, Scissors" to determine the victor. The only possible good that could come off this is that such a change would send GW around the porcelain bowl that much faster, and let someone competent buy the franchise.

Send letter bombs to GW HQ and set up a hit job on Kirby like any rational person.

Keep collecting/painting at a reduced rate. Likely stop playing.

Or make up my own rules.

7th is the most fun edition since 2nd. I don't understand all the hate about it. I think though if GW did this, it would put GW out of business. Hopefully they will have learned their lesson from the actual AoS about how bad an idea this was.

Col. Dash wrote:
7th is the most fun edition since 2nd. I don't understand all the hate about it. I think though if GW did this, it would put GW out of business. Hopefully they will have learned their lesson from the actual AoS about how bad an idea this was.

Let me list a few. Unplayable mealstorm without house ruling it. Stacking random on top of random for "fun". Streamlining stuff for some factions , only to switch to decurion style books later on. Crazy formations skyhammer .Removing all specials HQs, units and nerfing transporsts in IG and forcing them to be even more gunlin, while knowing that that 7th ed is going to b all about movment. Although the last one is a more personal one, so not everyone has to feel that way.

why would you quit when you could just play 7th or 5th or 6th or 4th or 3rd or 2nd 4ever?

Having just remembered 1p40k, I may switch to that.

 hanshotfirst wrote:
why would you quit when you could just play 7th or 5th or 6th or 4th or 3rd or 2nd 4ever?

But not First Edition/Rogue Trader?

(jk)

 hanshotfirst wrote:
why would you quit when you could just play 7th or 5th or 6th or 4th or 3rd or 2nd 4ever?

Because you can't play at a store with rules it doesn't support? Although if w40k realy got the full AoS treatment then who knows. A lot of stores have problmes with selling AoS stuff and let people play WFB. So maybe they would let people 7th ed too.

I'm a newbie here who really hasn't gotten deeply into either ruleset. That said, I would much prefer a shorter set of rules and quicker games. I'd also love for The Rules and Codecies to be free allowing me to put more toward miniatures, base modeling, and paints.

So, if GW wants to give 40K the AoS treatment, I say go for it!

SG

I do think it's funny that those that defend GW from criticism often said that they wouldn't try Warmachine (and many other games) because the armies were smaller and didn't have that epic feel to it that a large board covered in models did or the customization of equipment and spells.

Then they try AOS and suddenly are like "Whoa, faster rules and smaller armies is the way to go!"

ServiceGames wrote:
I'm a newbie here who really hasn't gotten deeply into either ruleset. That said, I would much prefer a shorter set of rules and quicker games. I'd also love for The Rules and Codecies to be free allowing me to put more toward miniatures, base modeling, and paints.

So, if GW wants to give 40K the AoS treatment, I say go for it!

It's possible to create a skirmish-level wargame with a short, comprehensive rulebook. AoS isn't one of these, however. The rules are unbalanced garbage whose writers could be outdone by a crack team of lobotomized five year olds. If 7th edition rules are too much for you, 1 page 40k is a decent substitute. Also, don't make the mistake of assuming all comprehensive rules are the result of unnecessary bloat. 40k could be argued to have reached this point to a degree, but it's not the I'm only possibility.

There are stores(non-GW) that don't let you play games they don't support? Wow, you guys never get in games of Battletech, BF Gothic, or any of the other great smaller game systems out there do you? My old main store still has the rest of the year on its Warhammer Fantasy campaign to go and they do not intend on stopping.

Glad all the stores locally I know are happy to have players playing whatever. They will at least sell snacks and drinks.

First thing is breath a sigh of relief that there will be no more "what if" posts or "the sky is falling" posts. As the sky has fallen.

Then I will read the rules, like I did with AoS, and decide weather or not to continue playing.

If 40k goes the exact same way as AoS, with the very small rules, it will be a hard call. I absolutely love the lore and hobby, but I also really like the gameplay (though I wouldn't mind the rules to be simplified a bit more) So I would probably sell off the armies I like the playstyle of, as it will be changed, but keep the armies I like the lore and look of, as if it goes full on beer and pretzels, why not go full fluff with the armies?

I am sure there will be some big differences when compared with AoS.
Most of the 'Bugs' should be worked out, I figure the On Line Free Rules will be 4-10 pages.

I would really like a healthy dose of simplification to 40k. I also recently decided to sell all my hardcopy books on Ebay because it is clear to me they would all be obsolete soon due to the rapid book-mill GW is putting out.

So, I like many aspects of AoS.

I will just paint for the fun of it.

Maybe paint for other people.

Move on to another game that appeals to me. Lots of great games out of there, I just happen to like 40K more. If that goes, well...plenty of fish in the sea. No need for nerd rage.

Probably wouldn't play it. I'd go back to 5th ed. if I wanted to play 40k.

I would enjoy watching the usual suspects twist themselves into knots trying to lay the blame on Dakka instead of GW for killing 40k. Those threads would be epic.

Col. Dash wrote:
There are stores(non-GW) that don't let you play games they don't support? Wow, you guys never get in games of Battletech, BF Gothic, or any of the other great smaller game systems out there do you? My old main store still has the rest of the year on its Warhammer Fantasy campaign to go and they do not intend on stopping.

Glad all the stores locally I know are happy to have players playing whatever. They will at least sell snacks and drinks.

Let me check . Yes ,yes and yes. If the store doesn't sell it why would they let people play it. Not only do people from the unsupported system take up tables for those that play games that the store supports, but there is always a chance of the starting the game and spending their money not in th shop. And selling food or drinks at a store requirs a special license, and if our version of F&DA comes to check it the store can be closed anywhere from 5 days to a month.

free rules and codex would be nice. But PUG would remain a total nightmare if not worse if it went to the bring what you want no points AoS

If 40k goes AoS, I will be totally fine with that.

I actively dislike the excess of tables and cross-references in the current 40k ruleset.

I vastly prefer AoS approach of simplified (core) rules and all unit rules on one page, without having to keep hunting for keywords that reference other keywords and tables.

And getting the rules for FREE? Beats the hell out of paying $60 for a Codex!

at the geeduds near me they let us use any gw or gw affiliated game. specialist games and roleplaying from fantasy flight are go! i thought that was normal... i geuss i live in a bubble...

 Blacksails wrote:
Free rules are welcome.

You mean joke rulesets for the "legacy" factions that make you dance and sing for re-rolls, while the new "Super Marines" and "Super Chaos" etc rulesets are only "free" with new miniatures?

Having thought on it for a bit... I really am not sure if I would or would not approve of the new system, as I doubt Game Workshop can ever overcome the 'Hack and Paste' and the 'Vacuum Effect.'

Hack and Paste is where they take existing Rules from a previous edition and simply cram them into the new Edition they are trying to sell to us. Without proper editing, this leads to clauses that either do not make sense or can no longer be applied without the end result not making any sense. There are even some vestigial Rules within 7th Edition that have not made any real sense for a while, but are still included because no-one noticed a lone sentence here and there that did absolutely nothing and could thus be ignored entirely.

The Vacuum Effect has always been a problem for Game Workshop, this is where they fail to account for more complicated Rule interactions when they try and explain how a Rule works. Might not be so bad if you stuck to just explaining the basics in a Vacuum, but they do it for even advanced Rules. This has led to a phenomenon where you can easily cause Rules to 'break' simply by adding more factors to the situation, my personal favourite is to add an Independent Character and see what happens. Eventually you will either find that one combination that has no Rules to govern it, or reach an outcome that is completely opposite to expected.

If Game Workshop can put together a more simple system it might eliminate those above concerns... so the very least I can look at the end result.

I will just play more games made by other people like Batman. WWX FoW Halo etc......in fact pretty much what I am doing now

 Dakkamite wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Free rules are welcome.

You mean joke rulesets for the "legacy" factions that make you dance and sing for re-rolls, while the new "Super Marines" and "Super Chaos" etc rulesets are only "free" with new miniatures?

In principle, I love free rules, regardless of the medium. Bonus points for just using the internet properly and uploading a bunch of PDF's, but that's obviously a little complicated for GW.

But like anything GW, the idea is good, the execution is terrible.

Par for the course.

The rules are free, but I'd argue they're hardly worth that much.

It's a steaming pile of **** what they did to fantasy as a vet of 5-6 years. I had hundreds of models some still in boxes that never need to see the light of day now. Some of the more glorious parts of fantasy are dead. Most of what fantasy is is dead. I loved fantasy because there were no marines, no grimdark and none of this garbage.

If GW starts merely advancing the plot of 40k i'm absolutely done. I will support any other game company competing with them.

They basically **** on every fan of fantasy that had an army dating back more than 2 years or was larger than a hundred models and then say everything is our fault rather than the company not getting their fanbase. As if that's not enough if you didn't have an army updated for the edition it was meant for (skaven, beastmen and brets) then tough luck. Also 8th is now unsupported and they totally did a bait and switch with age of sigmar looking to be 9th edition. We have every right to be mad and for most fantasy vets i saw nothing but hate for this. Most of the love is coming from the painters and 40k players. If this happens GW is dead to me and will rightfully die i hope.

Ignore what garbage GW puts out, play 5th and HH and have good times

Heh just try to play previous editions. 8th is no longer allowed at GW for fantasy and now that it's unsupported i heard of nobody playing it at local stores. The same will be true of 40k unless you have a group of gaming friends you can set games up with and pray they feel the same way you do.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Heh just try to play previous editions. 8th is no longer allowed at GW for fantasy and now that it's unsupported i heard of nobody playing it at local stores. The same will be true of 40k unless you have a group of gaming friends you can set games up with and pray they feel the same way you do.

Good for me then that I dont give a flying squig about GW and their imbecilic ways then. And why yes my local gaming group is filled to the brim with players to both games.

40K will never go through what FB just went through. Sure they'll simplify the rules and throw away the points system and the whole line of codexes. But fewer models to an army? Never. Or at least not until people just stop buying 40K stuff altogether, which is more or less what happened to FB.

Should it happen, I wouldn't read Dakka for some time and decide for myself it it's any good. If it's not, I'll shelf the miniatures to wait for the extended rules ( which are likely coming for Sigmar aswell ) and again test it out.

If it would still be unenjoyable, then I'll have Warmachine/KoW.

Even if it happened, which it might or might not, I would still play. 40k has been a part of my life in one way or another for over a decade and I won't be giving it up very easily.

Now before I get run over by the hate train I'll say I've always been more a collector and painter than player. I've tried every edition from 3rd onward and it might as well be a different game now with the power shifts, crazy objectives, formations and all the other "new stuff". So would a AoSing 40k bother me? No not really its just the game changing again in my eyes.

Worst case scenario GW goes under and I'm finally able to finish my armies due to no more model being produced

I would literally kill myself

sangheili wrote:
I would literally kill myself

I'm not sure you understand what "literally" means.

 Selym wrote:

sangheili wrote:
I would literally kill myself

I'm not sure you understand what "literally" means.

I think i know what it means thats why i used it.

Its just that people on dakka have the habit of interpreting thinks a million ways so that way they can't.

I don't think that it will be. 40k is much more of a money maker than WFB, and has been for years. But you figure all the creative time and effort that goes into each book, model, and rules, it's going to be the same investment for a WFB model as a 40k model. And then you're wasting inventory space and shipping for models that are going to sit on the shelf much longer than 40k models. Despite popular belief, GW is in the business to make money, it's not their plan to try and ruin your hobby.

Long story short, I doubt 40k will get sigmarizationed, but if it does, I'll gladly try out Infinity.

sangheili wrote:

 Selym wrote:

sangheili wrote:
I would literally kill myself

I'm not sure you understand what "literally" means.

I think i know what it means thats why i used it.

Its just that people on dakka have the habit of interpreting thinks a million ways so that way they can't.

Sadly your interpretation of the word literally is correct, literally now means virtually aswell, the opposite of what it's supposed to mean, the thick people won....

sangheili wrote:

 Selym wrote:

sangheili wrote:
I would literally kill myself

I'm not sure you understand what "literally" means.

I think i know what it means thats why i used it.

Its just that people on dakka have the habit of interpreting thinks a million ways so that way they can't.

So where will I find your obituary if this happens?

 Formosa wrote:

sangheili wrote:

 Selym wrote:

sangheili wrote:
I would literally kill myself

I'm not sure you understand what "literally" means.

I think i know what it means thats why i used it.

Its just that people on dakka have the habit of interpreting thinks a million ways so that way they can't.

Sadly your interpretation of the word literally is correct, literally now means virtually aswell, the opposite of what it's supposed to mean, the thick people won....

Had to google for evidence. You'd think Oxford would know better.

 Selym wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

sangheili wrote:

 Selym wrote:

sangheili wrote:
I would literally kill myself

I'm not sure you understand what "literally" means.

I think i know what it means thats why i used it.

Its just that people on dakka have the habit of interpreting thinks a million ways so that way they can't.

Sadly your interpretation of the word literally is correct, literally now means virtually aswell, the opposite of what it's supposed to mean, the thick people won....

Had to google for evidence. You'd think Oxford would know better.

Weep for our language...

I'd give it a shot. Free rules would be a much better change than the $100+ buy in I'd have to make to get the modern rules/codex to play with minis I have had painted since 2nd edition.

With Age of Sigmar, it's not the rules that got me pissed, it's the complete trash-canning of a 30-year evocative setting that was an insulting slap to the face. They could easily have added the Stormcast into the Old World without all the End Times exploding into many realms, hundreds (thousands?) of years later nonsense of the new setting. In fact, several people have written ideas that would have done just that.

As long as there was some sort of army balance system (the stupidest, most broken part of the AoS ruleset), I would not sweat AoS-style warscrolls and rules as long as one of my favorite settings remains untouched. Especially if they were free!

If all else fails, I mostly play home games, so there are always older editions to play. I keep meaning to revisit 40K 2nd edition one of these days.

I am in the situation where it would literally be like old Warhammer players using the models they already have with new, free rules. As long as what draws me to the game is unchanged, what do I have to lose? I certainly don't play 40K for the rulesets.

I am currently gearing up to enjoy the Old World with Kings of War rules. Mechanics of how I roll dice are not what ties me to a particular gaming system or setting, they are just icing on the cake if they are fun and work well. Say what you want, but "Forging the narrative" is exactly what I want to do, using a warband of models I have creative ties to with rules that don't require more of my brain than having fun does. I just want to feel like I am exploring a setting that interests me more than anything else when I play a game.

I think I'd actually play 40k again.

Competitiveness and super tight rules has never been this game's strong suit, and it's a fool's errand to try and make this game function like that under GW's writer team. I've seen Sigmar in action and it's actually not that bad.

Going the Sigmar route would just fix a lot of the issues that the game has (aka a ridiculously bloated and overblown rule system)

That, or just let FFG write their rules for them, I'd be cool with that too.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I think I'd actually play 40k again.

Competitiveness and super tight rules has never been this game's strong suit, and it's a fool's errand to try and make this game function like that under GW's writer team. I've seen Sigmar in action and it's actually not that bad.

Going the Sigmar route would just fix a lot of the issues that the game has (aka a ridiculously bloated and overblown rule system)

That, or just let FFG write their rules for them, I'd be cool with that too.

Yeah, I'm starting to feel that way too. If it dropped the game size a bit and cut out the absurd rules cost, I would be alright with it.

FFG taking over would definitely be optimal, however. It'd be nice getting value out of the high prices for a change.

I'd give it a go of course, but I wouldn't throw any money at a starter or whatnot. I do agree that FFG would do a much better job with a ruleset.

Hoping that either GW will come up with a balanced ruleset or FFG will take over are pretty solid long shots though.

If it turned out to be terrible, I would probably push DZC on other gaming guys a bit more, and get another army.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Going the Sigmar route would just fix a lot of the issues that the game has (aka a ridiculously bloated and overblown rule system)

Replacing lesser problems with greater problems isn't exactly a good deal.

sangheili wrote:
I would literally kill myself

That is literally unbelievable, and I would require proof. Please upload a video of it afterward.

I'll take 10K of Necrons to every game.

In all seriousness, I'd just keep playing 7th ed necrons, and 5th ed necrons, and feth it 3rd ed necrons while were at it.
Just play games for fun, ya know?

I'd give it a shot. I actually kind of like AoS, but if they do the same thing they did with WHFB and release free PDFS for the armies, I might grab them and run.

If they do this though, I hope there's an end times 40k too.

I hope a trusted committee of people create a better point system for all the units in 40k and keep it up to date and edit old costs when new units are released in order to create near perfect balance.

So instead of new models being attractive for being op and under costed, the community can vote on re adjusting points for previous models to counter balance the inequality created by the new.

It ain't gonna happen, AoSing 40k would be like taking your primary cash cow out to the front of your house; killing it and then squatting down and dedicating on the corpse and then try and sell bits of the poo stained meat to the cows family... Yeah no, GW are never going to make the Gamble.

Also notice that age of Sigmar is selling badly. Also for the first time in 10 years I walked into my flgs and saw that the manager hadn't painted the AoS box. He painted it for every other starter kit but for this one he just...didn't even bother.

The GW in Lincoln only had those figures basecoated last time I saw them.
Seems almost common, wow...

 The Deathless Host wrote:

Also notice that age of Sigmar is selling badly.

Got some opinions for ya:

Poll on the WHFB forum

It seems AoS hasn't failed everywhere.

 Selym wrote:

 The Deathless Host wrote:

Also notice that age of Sigmar is selling badly.

Got some opinions for ya:

Poll on the WHFB forum

It seems AoS hasn't failed everywhere.

Forum polls are irrelevant to the game's financial situation, especially with a sample size of 20. In terms of actual sales made, it's been doing terribly. The limited edition, the one that has been "limited to a mere 2000 copies around the world," has yet to sell out. I've seen gaming stores that have resorted to giving away miniatures with the starter sets just to get rid of the things. There may be fanboys on the fora, but the system has not been what I would call a resounding commercial success.

 asorel wrote:

 Selym wrote:

 The Deathless Host wrote:

Also notice that age of Sigmar is selling badly.

Got some opinions for ya:

Poll on the WHFB forum

It seems AoS hasn't failed everywhere.

Forum polls are irrelevant to the game's financial situation, especially with a sample size of 20. In terms of actual sales made, it's been doing terribly. The limited edition, the one that has been "limited to a mere 2000 copies around the world," has yet to sell out. I've seen gaming stores that have resorted to giving away miniatures with the starter sets just to get rid of the things. There may be fanboys on the fora, but the system has not been what I would call a resounding commercial success.

"The limited edition" is the second campaign book in around 3-4 weeks, first of all.

And quite frankly, what's happening at YOUR gaming stores is not what's happening at everyone else's. At my local shop, I've seen somewhere in the realm of 40-50 Age of Sigmar core sets get sold---with something like 25% of those being two individuals each buying a box and then splitting the contents with each other. Couple that with maybe another quarter of the players who wanted the Stormcast Eternals content going on to purchase each and every Stormcast part, Age of Sigmar isn't doing that poorly by any stretch of the imagination.

 Formosa wrote:
Honestly I don't know, aos is awful and I really don't like it, it's not warhammer, I get that, but it's not a game I want to play, if they do the same to 40k... I'm done, I'd even consider a class action suit, e.a was held to account (and several other companies) for bad design and poor, unfinished games, gw is doing exactly the same.

Ooh, could you post some information on that? That sounds really interesting, but my BS meter is going off the charts (no offense to you).

How can you sue a game company because you don't like their rules?

I would cease to support the company if they went that route. The latest raft of releases has put me off new purchases anyways. A dumbiing down of the rules would see all my GW armies downsized and the funds put into BattleTech.

Its too bad because at least with AoS you can say screw it and play Mordheim. Necromunda doesn't port so easily with a 40k collection.

I'd rather see GW die and the IP's sold off (hopefully continued) than get the AOS treatment. Last thing we need is every modern army squatted, the fluff ruined, and gak, garish looking new armies being added in their place. Even the new Chaos models for AOS look downright godawful. And of course then there's the rules, which feel like a children's game with how bloody simple they are.

 Wyzilla wrote:
I'd rather see GW die and the IP's sold off (hopefully continued) than get the AOS treatment. Last thing we need is every modern army squatted, the fluff ruined, and gak, garish looking new armies being added in their place. Even the new Chaos models for AOS look downright godawful. And of course then there's the rules, which feel like a children's game with how bloody Simple-Minded and Childish they are.

FTFY. Simple rules aren't always a bad thing, but they need tactical depth, and do not need arbitrary 4th-wall-breaking stupidity.

Not to mention the rule that gives you a bonus if a model talks back to you. Wtf.

Player1: *forces this rule to come up*

Player2: I heard it talk!

P1: No you didn't.

P2: Yes I did!

P1: TO! This guy is an idiot!

TO: P2, did you hear it talk?

P2: Yes. Gimme mah re-roll please.

P1: Models can't talk.

TO: (either) If models cant talk, why is that rule there? Have your re-roll, P2. (or) P2, you are delusional and need medical help.

A game that requires this kind of conversation is slowed.

ziggurattt wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Honestly I don't know, aos is awful and I really don't like it, it's not warhammer, I get that, but it's not a game I want to play, if they do the same to 40k... I'm done, I'd even consider a class action suit, e.a was held to account (and several other companies) for bad design and poor, unfinished games, gw is doing exactly the same.

Ooh, could you post some information on that? That sounds really interesting, but my BS meter is going off the charts (no offense to you).

It is BS.

There was an attempted class action suit against EA for Battlefield 4's release, and the judge sided with EA.

Now, there is one which they were "held to account" but it has nothing to do with "bad design and poor, unfinished games". It was for NCAA branded football games and likeness rights.

You know I hope they do something, because I love 40k and the genre it helped popularize. GW has been having difficulties, many of them self inflicted, but in all honesty it's kind of a tough business they are in. They sell figurines, there is no DRM, no need to rebuy, and there is a hard limit to the size of the battles so there is a limit to the size of the armies people collect. Add in a vigorous secondary sale market, and a shrinking/stagnant player base and you see it's a tight situation. Finally the hobby has a high entry cost, which makes the secondary sale issue worse, and makes replacing turnover much more difficult.

Honestly, 40k needs a skirmish game to act as a gateway into the full game. The problem with age of sigmar is, beyond what were you thinking rules, is that it's not an introduction into fantasy, it's a replacement. That's why every ones jimmies are rustled. GW has had flops before, and no one got upset about them, they just quietly died. No the problem is that they killed something people liked or at least had nostalgia for, and replaced it with something completely different. The fact that AoS also happens to suck doesn't help it.

So in summation, I'm not offended by the idea of an AoS style game for 40k, in fact I think it's necessary for the fandom. I hope they do it in such a way as they continue support for 40k, and make it a stepping stone into 40k by using models that work in both games.

40k needs a skirmish game?

One that is perfect for new players and fun for old ones too?

You haven't played much Kill Team have you?

Perhaps they should advertise Kill Team a little more?

Kill team and 40k in 40 minutes are two of my favorites, but they are not really fleshed out games so much as they are scenarios. Maybe a Kill team box (Marines vs. Orks) with some extra cool bits for the kill team (to get experienced players to buy it), a rule book, and some terrain might be an inexpensive way to get people into the hobby.

Necromunda or gorka morka were more what I had in mind, however the problem with Necromunda and Gorka Morka is that they weren't very good gateways into the hobby, the models are really only useful for a specific 40k army, and then only maybe. They were meant to be successful products in their own right, instead of loss leading introductions to the hobby like AoS. Lets face it that's what AoS box is, the price per model in the box is absurdly low, and despite the hate we have for the rules, most people will admit the sculpts are some of the best we've seen in the fantasy line.

Wouldn't it be awesome if we had experience and campaigns in Kill Team ala' Necromunda?

But back to the point. What does "Sigmarized" mean? When I hear this term I think of this.

1: Setting destroyed violently and replaced with comic book style "multiverse".

2: New models that are out of scale.

3: Poorly written and shallow rules revamp.

4: Quick rebranding of the range.

None of these things sound appealing. Sure I made them sound that way and someone will probably jump in with their AoS is lovely line (I suspect bribery), but that's how I see it.

Sure 40k has bad rules too, but at least it's an attempt at some depth and complexity. Its still a fun game even with all the shenanigans. I mean really, come on, how often is it really that awful? Even when some guy brings the cheese and is all the acronyms, what happens then? You either get to throw a mini at a wall or come here and insult the offending party until we all laugh our asses off. Big deal. You could be in a bar too ya know. We all know how fun that is right?

Ha, yes! Alright, let's have 40k End Times and then we can all just say screw it and take up drinking in the pub. Points? Who needs em? Paf! Pow! Ker-thunk! I'll have another whisky ma'am! And another black eye, stinking Humie! Zaf!

I'm not really in-tune with the fantasy players in my area, but most of the people I talked to like the new AoS rules, on the whole. My impression is that people are ok with it, as long as you're not a dick about the looseness of the rules and no points limits.

I have my concerns and doubts, but simplification of the games rules and making them available for free isn't a bad thing..........though I feel as if they've gone a bit too far in rules simplification for AOS.

But if 40k gets a similar treatment, I'll give it a shot and see what happens.

that being said, comparing armies on a model-to-model basis like AoS does seem insane. I mean, according to AoS rules as I understand them, a group of 30 grots and a group of 30 terminators are exactly equivalent in the eyes of the rules which.........isn't correct.