Are there any 40K factions that you hate, fluffwise, in game, or just the looks of it? I myself hate Tau. I once played a small 300 points skirmish at my FLGS, with 3 people on each team (900 points per team), I brought 10 Chaos Marines, a Rhino and 5 Raptors. I decided to assault a Tau players forces. Bad move. They obliterated all of my guys ina single turn. Now, a hatred burns inside of me. Ugh...
Most of the armies in the game that I dislike, it's because I think they have stupid hats.
Seriously. That is the basis for all the factions I chose not to play. The Eldar/DE cone hats are the all time prize winners though. That or the riptide's head.
Gameplay wise not the biggest Necron fan. I tried to get into them for years since I loved the aesthetic but I couldn't find a way to make their gameplay fun because I love their aesthetics but...eh. There's just no intricacy to them, they're just a blunt force instrument.
Tyranids are the silliest scifi trope ever brought in, and that's saying something in a game full of silly scifi tropes. No, biotech isn't the answer to everything. It's damn stupid to have living ships, and having soldiers spawned with weapons welded on is even more stupid. These aren't the "top predators" as described in the Codex, they're a race close to extinction. The only way they could have eaten a galaxy or several is if there was no intelligent life there. Wasteful, stupid, unfit to live.
"Oh my God, it's organic! What are we going to do, Captain?"
"There's not much we can do, Ensign. Organic technology is so far beyond our grasp that we can't even imagine the power they must have. All we have is high-powered guns, nuclear missiles, and our primitive metallic armour. What are you reading from their incredibly advanced bio-ship?"
"Their ship is soft and flexible. Its construction materials are semi-permeable and laced with a network of delicate circulation passages. Instead of using impermeable high-density materials, it's made from countless tiny thin-walled cells which tend to rapidly break down in the presence of corrosive chemicals or radiation."
"What? And we were supposed to be afraid of this? Open fire!"
The only faction I dislike at all is probably the Tyranids, but that's not because of their tabletop performance or anything - I like playing games against Tyranid players. They just don't seem very narratively interesting. They're basically a bunch of giant space fleas from nowhere. Unstoppable, unknowable, and impossible to negotiate with - they're just giant Space Bug Lizards from beyond the galaxy with no weakness. They just eat everything. Compared to the other two "end of the world" factions (Orks and Necrons) they're just so bland.
Demons. Something about them doesn't seem to fit the 40k tabletop to me. Always felt like it was a cheap copy-paste from WHFB. (Can't say that anymore...RIP)
Spetulhu wrote: Tyranids are the silliest scifi trope ever brought in, and that's saying something in a game full of silly scifi tropes. No, biotech isn't the answer to everything. It's damn stupid to have living ships, and having soldiers spawned with weapons welded on is even more stupid. These aren't the "top predators" as described in the Codex, they're a race close to extinction. The only way they could have eaten a galaxy or several is if there was no intelligent life there. Wasteful, stupid, unfit to live.
"Oh my God, it's organic! What are we going to do, Captain?"
"There's not much we can do, Ensign. Organic technology is so far beyond our grasp that we can't even imagine the power they must have. All we have is high-powered guns, nuclear missiles, and our primitive metallic armour. What are you reading from their incredibly advanced bio-ship?"
"Their ship is soft and flexible. Its construction materials are semi-permeable and laced with a network of delicate circulation passages. Instead of using impermeable high-density materials, it's made from countless tiny thin-walled cells which tend to rapidly break down in the presence of corrosive chemicals or radiation."
"What? And we were supposed to be afraid of this? Open fire!"
SQUISH ...
It always baffles me what people take issue with. In a setting with mystical hand wavey "super super metal, like metal but super" and demons formed from an alternate dimension of emotion brought into being by literal gods, you have a problem with the existence of identical, super-duper organic compounds.
The Tyranids are copycats. You fight them with guns, they show up with big guns strapped onto them. You fight them with swords? Tyranids gonna have sword-copies. The "animal/machine that copies enemy weapons and tactics in a super efficient way" is a pretty well worn scifi trope. Maybe they found a way to arrange carbon in a super strong way, and they use that arrangement of carbon instead of metals because that's how they evolved and it's worked so far.
j31c3n wrote: The only faction I dislike at all is probably the Tyranids, but that's not because of their tabletop performance or anything - I like playing games against Tyranid players. They just don't seem very narratively interesting. They're basically a bunch of giant space fleas from nowhere. Unstoppable, unknowable, and impossible to negotiate with - they're just giant Space Bug Lizards from beyond the galaxy with no weakness. They just eat everything. Compared to the other two "end of the world" factions (Orks and Necrons) they're just so bland.
Fun to fight against though.
Tyranids don't get a lot of points for unique "characters," but they certainly have weaknesses. Kill a handful of their units in a given area, and the whole swarm devolves into unintelligent, self-destructive animals. They're also prone to starving to uselessness if you manage to deprive them of sufficient food long enough. They can adapt against most toxins/viruses, but they don't have tanks or buildings to hide in until they do. ^_^
I don't really hate any faction fluff-wise, but I find 'crons and daemons annoying to face. Older 'crons were tough, but you could take advantage of their low initiative to try and sweep them away or at least lower their attacks back in melee. New 'crons are tough, and there's nothing you can do about it. Just makes facing them exhausting. Daemons (not counting daemonkin) are just annoying because it takes time for the other guy to roll all his pregame stuff, and then you spend a bunch of time rolling on the warpstorm table (which I have plenty of complaints about in and of itself), and then there are plenty of warlord traits and wargear that do random things after a random roll if you kill enough things... It's just a lot of rolling that feels like it's mostly there because someone was being a bit too literal with the term "chaos."
The mechanicus do bug me a bit fluff-wise, I suppose. There's a lot of fluff to love with them, but their technological stagnation is just infuriating from a fluff standpoint. "Quick! Invent something to deal with the tyranids!" "But we made skynet back in the day!" "So don't build skynet. Just build me an anti-bug weapon."
Does GW count? other than that though it's gotta be Necrons. Undead don't belong in sci-fi, even if they're re-purposed as "robots" or whatever the hell they're considered.
Eldar: No seriously those guys, just the amount of core rules they just basically ignore with way too many good options alongside impossibly good internal balance requires them to have no tactical thought at all aside for target priority..
Tau: In a Science-fantasy game (not sci-fi as many like to obtain that misconception), I love CC just as much as I love my guns hence why I play Orks and CSM.. Fighting Tau is like watching paint dry to me, its not the fact you're fighting a gunline but more of the Markerlights that annoy the hell out of me, because that swiss-tool again to me basically negates a core mechanic of the rules, which means that if you are lucky enough to get into combat then it was a hard and tedious slog to get there with one unit.
IK: I want to play 40k. Not "Epic 28mill" and shoved into every IoM army thanks..
SGTPozy wrote: Orks, they're too OP and they're such a stupid concept.
Lol went from hating grey knights to orks? At least the grey knights deserved the hate. The orks don't.
Mine would be tau. Stupid fething boring race of do nothing cool and just roll dice. Marker light this, Riptide that. My fire warrior is t5, got that Jack? So dumb. Hopefully it gets squatted.
SGTPozy wrote: Orks, they're too OP and they're such a stupid concept.
Lol went from hating grey knights to orks? At least the grey knights deserved the hate. The orks don't.
Mine would be tau. Stupid fething boring race of do nothing cool and just roll dice. Marker light this, Riptide that. My fire warrior is t5, got that Jack? So dumb. Hopefully it gets squatted.
Still hate them, just like all of them stupid Marine armies.
Orks are just so boring to play against; I'll just sit here whilst you move your Boyz, run/shoot and then assault. They take way too long!
cox.dan2 wrote:Does GW count? other than that though it's gotta be Necrons. Undead don't belong in sci-fi, even if they're re-purposed as "robots" or whatever the hell they're considered.
Uh huh...neither do Orcs but there they are.
For me, I don't hate any faction, but I have zero interest in orks, eldar, and chaos any thing.
- Necrons. Playing against them is really really annoying. You're not really having a challenge against an player, you're fighting an all-time all-weather 4++++++++ fething RP save. Idk how to explain but feels like tactics are irrelevant against these guys and their OP formations and stuff. I know Necrons should be tough but come on ! 4+ fething Decurion....
- Tau : I think I hate them more than anything. So marysue, so noblebright, so join-us-we're-so-much-better-than-the-veryvery-bad-imperium. They kinda think they are better than Humans because of their two-cents philosophy and, even worse, many Tau players think the same way. Actually, they are just a bunch of imperialists and racial supremacists absolutely not better than anyone in this lore. Stop put them on a pedestal like they're the best chance for the Galaxy to be saved!
Space Marines (all flavours) and Orks are the worst because they're the 'kiddie' armies:
Space Marines are 40k lite; how else would you explain ignoring morale (as it's too difficult for children to understand), having all 4s (except attacks and save) for characteristics (so kiddies don't forget) and having every unit good at everything (so children don't get upset when their unit can't hurt their opponent's unit)?
And Orks are just there for people who can't do good conversions (Can I use my shoe as a battlewagon?).
Necrons because of durability, then probably Tau and Tyrannids because I hate their fluff. I refuse to believe that Tomb Kings in Space, Zerg with new name, and space insert-fantasy-race here is as creative as people can get for armies.
Tyranids--Every Tyranids player isn't a cheater, but with one exception, all the worst cheaters I know are 'nid players. Plus the army has virtually zero fluff to get behind. It's the army for people who don't want to get involved in the background at all. "They're bugs, they eat people," is good enough, apparently.
Fluff wise they shoehorned the necrons in so badly, firstly as 'ultimate ultimate bad guys' and now as 'well, fairly ultimate bad guys who aren't nearly as marysue as we realized we'd diluted the threat of chaos so entirely between the crons and the nids'.
Used to also be tau, but they're making them fit gradually, I still think regular crisis suits look absolutely terrible, but I love the hammerhead grav tank family, the stealth suits and the riptide, so it's getting there. Also a new player arriving to the table is a hell of a lot easier on my fluffnerves than 'ancient and terrible and ancient evil awakens... it's star gate meets terminator!', yeah, whatever pal, I have eldritch gods and daemons on one side and a biological fleet of world eating gribblies on the other.
Easily necrons. I'm talking mainly from a fluff standpoint though. I never had a problem with them until their 5th Ed book. They should not be turned into some universe threatening force like the nids, that's just stupid and it's trying to make an incredibly pointless faction have some sort of purpose. They should have been a sort of foil to the eldar, not idiotic cartoon villains with incredibly powerful tech, just because.
Also on a personal note, their models look incredibly silly. They should not look like stupid terminators, they should look like totally inhuman machines, not the laughable robot skeletons. Them being given so much love by gw is even worse, since they are just some pointless third rate faction undeserving of the attention.
SGTPozy wrote: Space Marines (all flavours) and Orks are the worst because they're the 'kiddie' armies:
Space Marines are 40k lite; how else would you explain ignoring morale (as it's too difficult for children to understand), having all 4s (except attacks and save) for characteristics (so kiddies don't forget) and having every unit good at everything (so children don't get upset when their unit can't hurt their opponent's unit)?
And Orks are just there for people who can't do good conversions (Can I use my shoe as a battlewagon?).
...Why do you virulently hate anyone under 18....?
I don't hate any faction, but I dislike Tyranids. I don't like any kind of man-eating creatures from outer space (never liked Alien or stuff like that). There's only one thing a Tyranid is good for:
kronk wrote:I hate Space Marines, so I play 3 different chapters.
My electro-shock therapist has recently upped the voltage.
I hate guard with a burning passion. Their turns are just roll dice, see what I kill. At least tau requires SOME thought and doesn't have a billion models and tanks to move around. With guard its generally a game of pickup models while he gets 4+ cover saves from adl and ruins while I slog over there to punch them.
Not a big fan of the Space Wolves. Way too "Specialer Marine +1" and their fluff has gone from just 40k-Bad to Atrocious. Liked them a lot back in the day, but in recent years they've just become Marty Stue.
Not really a fan of Stormtroopers as their own, stand-alone group. They were always supposed to be small-unit specialists, a tool used by the Imperium to crack the hardest nuts to flood that breach with the IG, or to provide some in-field firepower to Inquisitors.
I haven't played enough games to dislike any army gameplay-wise, but fluff wise I find Eldar boring, but that's probably because I just don't like elves in pretty much any setting. Elves are always the "dignified, holier-than thou race that is so super-special and mystic, and the puny mortal races could never understand their higher thinking." Bluh. I mean, sure, the Eldar f d up a lot, but just like with the Asari in Mass Effect, they're still that dignified, super-advanced alien race. Give me something more earnest, like dwarves or orks, which I typically like in most settings.
Tau, I just don't get them, they look somewhat mean, but love to fight from a distance. What the hell is giving a race such short life spans I mean 40 years, bugger that.
Also their walkers look like rejects from a Transformers designers sketch pad.
SGTPozy wrote: "And nobody seems to hate the IG at least!"
I do as their play style doesn't involve any interaction due to being a gunline army
Said the Tau player
I personally don't hate any of the factions, but my least-liked probably has to be Craftworld Eldar are Space Wolves...
SWs because they are SM +1 and more Marty Stu than people claim Ultramarines to be (but it's ok for the SWs to be like that because... they aren't UM??)
CE because... um, I dunno? Probably because I haven't read much of their fluff so there isn't anything for to like about them.
zgort wrote: I am so surprised demons aren't getting more hate. WHY DON'T YOU ALL HATE THE DEMONS?!
I guess I'm the weird one...
I actually find Daemons interesting to fight because AP is meaningless, so I can use virtually any weapon in my arsenal. They're one of the "big bad" factions in the game with the most interesting backstory (admittedly you REALLY have to read into it and squint and grasp for meaning to really get everything out of the story of the Warp, but I like that crap.)
I've preached it so much it should be obvious, but Necrons and Grey Knights. I will always hate them fluff and rules wise.
As far as Daemons, eh...I hate Nurgle but really it's small potatoes compared to the OP Necrons and Grey Knights and their god awful super special fluff.
Matthew wrote: Are there any 40K factions that you hate, fluffwise, in game, or just the looks of it? I myself hate Tau. I once played a small 300 points skirmish at my FLGS, with 3 people on each team (900 points per team), I brought 10 Chaos Marines, a Rhino and 5 Raptors. I decided to assault a Tau players forces. Bad move. They obliterated all of my guys ina single turn. Now, a hatred burns inside of me. Ugh...
I'd start to hate my own army if I lost to Tau in assault like that. Luckily that hasn't happened to me this millennium so I can just focus on hating Eldar. On second thought, who am I kidding? I hate the Tau too.
Necrons, I find them really uninspired as a concept. I remember when they came out I just kind of felt like, "Really? Space undead that look like the terminator? That's the best you came up with?" I find some of Space Marines chapters and certainly the Inquisition and DE really despicable fluff wise but what good is a villain that you can't hate? So I respect them for that. All said and done Tau drew me to 40k for the reasons so many hate them.... I couldn't stand the evil of the Imperium acting as the default good guys for being the "least bad" in 40k. So when the Star Trek race meets Mao group came along I had an army I could get behind and have fun role playing as. Anyways, like my hate for the Inquisition and DE... Your hate for Tau should give you something to be passionate about and enjoy in the game. So you actually love the Tau. And the Greater Good
A tyranid swarm is fun to play against but I don't like the fluff.
I like the fluff of Dark Eldar but don't like playing against them (haven't played new Dark Eldar though)
More then anything I love fighting against some good old chaos daemons. I like random stuff, and especially two daemon armies fighting head to head, its a good way for expensive laughs.
"...Why do you virulently hate anyone under 18....?"
I don't hate them personally, just the armies designed for them, especially when you see older people playing them and complaining about how other armies ignore most of the rules.
"Said the Tau player"
That' why I said it as everyone's quick to attack Tau for being a gunline army yet they ignore the biggest gunline army; Imperial Guard!
Eldar. Literally dumbest race in the entire galaxy in terms of IQ and diplomacy. I'm serious. Orks don't count because its ingrained in them and Tyranids are just a hive mind.
Matthew wrote: Are there any 40K factions that you hate, fluffwise, in game, or just the looks of it? I myself hate Tau. I once played a small 300 points skirmish at my FLGS, with 3 people on each team (900 points per team), I brought 10 Chaos Marines, a Rhino and 5 Raptors. I decided to assault a Tau players forces. Bad move. They obliterated all of my guys ina single turn. Now, a hatred burns inside of me. Ugh...
I'd start to hate my own army if I lost to Tau in assault like that. Luckily that hasn't happened to me this millennium so I can just focus on hating Eldar. On second thought, who am I kidding? I hate the Tau too.
It's not so much losing to Tau in assault as much as it is getting overwatched by practically the entire army and whatever not-BS1 they overwatch at.
Didn't really think of them as a 'faction' in the wider sense, but on the subject of 'specialer marines', Grey Knights. I hate Grey Knights. I didn't used to, when they were a mysterious order of nasty bastards, but then the 5th edition codex marysued all over the floor in a big gushing puddle and yeah... Grey fething Knights...
Shas'Nel Tau wrote: Necrons, I find them really uninspired as a concept. I remember when they came out I just kind of felt like, "Really? Space undead that look like the terminator? That's the best you came up with?" I find some of Space Marines chapters and certainly the Inquisition and DE really despicable fluff wise but what good is a villain that you can't hate? So I respect them for that. All said and done Tau drew me to 40k for the reasons so many hate them.... I couldn't stand the evil of the Imperium acting as the default good guys for being the "least bad" in 40k. So when the Star Trek race meets Mao group came along I had an army I could get behind and have fun role playing as. Anyways, like my hate for the Inquisition and DE... Your hate for Tau should give you something to be passionate about and enjoy in the game. So you actually love the Tau. And the Greater Good
That's actually a big thing for me too, there are many armies I "villain hate" quite hard (Chaos, 'Nids, 'Crons, Dark Eldar, etc.) and while that absolutely stops me from collecting or playing them, I don't "properly" hold it against them because of that.
As a result, all the factions I TRULY hate as opposed to "villain hate" or simply being uninterested in them are all IOM factions actually.
I don't hate factions as much as I hate really cheesy lists, I can tolerate all factions(except orks), but when they bring super cheese, I.e. 1 knight in a 500 pt game, that's when I get angry, then I Gauss everything xhibit style
I despise orks. I hate the self righteous attitude the player base has, i hate the humble bragging and the goddamn ork speak. I would rather play against eldar then orks, cuz then atleast something would happen.
"Oh, you brought a greentide? Guess ill just sit here and wait. My strat is now gunline, feth me right?"
Seriously orks are a joke. Every single ork olayer ive gone up against gets so mad each time they lose its sad.
If theres one army i would delete without hesitation its orks
I hate the Tau because of their recent fluff. Tau were never about the strength of one over the strength of many but that all changed when they brought in the Riptide.
I'm also kind of against the IoM but thats all GW's fault. They give them new weapons (Grav Guns) but didn't continue the storyline at all. When did they design these new weapons? What was everyone else doing while they made these new weapons? Sitting on their thumbs?
Vitali Advenil wrote: Elves are always the "dignified, holier-than thou race that is so super-special and mystic, and the puny mortal races could never understand their higher thinking."
I hate Eldar partially because a lot of the Eldar players I've met are like that, too.
Vitali Advenil wrote: Elves are always the "dignified, holier-than thou race that is so super-special and mystic, and the puny mortal races could never understand their higher thinking."
I hate Eldar partially because a lot of the Eldar players I've met are like that, too.
At my FLGS, the TFG is an Eldar player who loves to gloat about how brokenly op the codex is. Also his dice are often called into question as he rolls the same few dice for moral checks and a different set for shooting. He rolls a lot of 1s and 2s for moral and a lot of 6s for shooting. I guess he is forging the narrative with his dice having fortune and guide.
So for me thats:
Tau: Ignore Cover
Necrons: Ignore removing models
IoM: Ignoring staying within points limit because free transports/weapons are great.
IG: Ignore movement phase
Psychic phase I can live without, that's just an abhorrent mess of rules.
Not all Tau gunlines. Ninja Tau is great to play against.
I don't hate any faction. I feel they all bring something unique and important to the table. Even Tau, for all the flak they get.
However, my vote for "Most obnoxious to play against" goes to a Decurion Necron player that doesn't roll anything less than a 4. They justwon'tdie!
Vankraken wrote: At my FLGS, the TFG is an Eldar player who loves to gloat about how brokenly op the codex is. Also his dice are often called into question as he rolls the same few dice for moral checks and a different set for shooting. He rolls a lot of 1s and 2s for moral and a lot of 6s for shooting. I guess he is forging the narrative with his dice having fortune and guide.
That is one of the classic signs of a cheater.
The next time you play them, if they continue with their mysterious dice-rolling ways, ask to swap dice with them. If they aren't cheating, and only truly blessed by the dice gods, it won't matter what dice they roll.
Orks, not because of the army on the table, and not really because of the fluff, but because I can not stand the way ork players speak when they play, I couldn't care less if that's the way everything is spelled and supposed to be pronounced. It makes me want to beat them with a dictionary.
Also anything that spams D weapons, so currently Eldar but I have a feeling that list will grow when the Tau book comes out.
For me, it has to be Space Wolves. I dislike Necrons for being this undefeatable better than you faction in the lore and Tyranids because Organic technology is dumb. However, I forgive a lot of that on the basis that they have nice models. Especially Necrons.
Space Wolves has both bad fluff and subpar models. They're like a 13 year old's fanfiction made canon.
"Yeah, we're like, the bestest Space Marines ever. We tell the Inquisition and Eclessiarchy to go feth themselves, we wipe our asses with the Codex Astartes and we like to paaaaartttaaaay! We're these savage vikings but like we're total cool, calculation tacticians too! And we totes ride into battle on Wolves! And we have our own special weapons! And our Pyskers aren't Psykers cause they draw power from our awesome ice world with totally badass people!".
The Wolf and Viking theme is done to death, resurrected and done to death again. You can run a Wolf Lord with Wolf Claws riding a Wolf joined by a group of Thunderwolf Calvary. As for their models, like I said, the Viking theme is overdone. To quote another poster, they are not Viking themed Space Marines. They are Space Marine themed Vikings. Let's not even get into the idiocy that is Santa Grimnar. Some people may find the Wolf helmets, braids and Viking runes cool. I think they're tacky.
This thread is the real world embodiment of wh40k, everyone loves there own faction, as they should, and can tolerate certain other factions and hates the other other factions.
This is like if the allies table got thrown in a warp storm
I hate GK so much so that if they are my allies I will barrage them, impede them, disrupt them, and kill them in anyway possible on the table.
My main army is IG, ever since I read that crappy fluff about GK turn against their allies after an engagement due to possible future taint. Yet they are psykers themselves, bunch of hypocrites.
Big Mac wrote: I hate GK so much so that if they are my allies I will barrage them, impede them, disrupt them, and kill them in anyway possible on the table.
My main army is IG, ever since I read that crappy fluff about GK turn against their allies after an engagement due to possible future taint. Yet they are psykers themselves, bunch of hypocrites.
Big Mac wrote: I hate GK so much so that if they are my allies I will barrage them, impede them, disrupt them, and kill them in anyway possible on the table.
My main army is IG, ever since I read that crappy fluff about GK turn against their allies after an engagement due to possible future taint. Yet they are psykers themselves, bunch of hypocrites.
They execute or mind-wipe former allies because the GK are an ultra-top-secret aspect of the Imperium. Even most of the Inquisition doesn't know they exist, even members of the Ordo Malleus (for whom the GK are the Chamber Militant). It's not (always) because of the risk of future taint, it's because two men can keep a secret if one is dead (or has his memory erased).
I really dislike Eldar. They have few weaknesses and no bad units, just units not as good as others, but still good.
Necrons went a little overboard with the Egyptian theme. It looks a little dumb now. Also, their Reanimation Protocols need to be nerfed a bit. The ability to come back to life 50% of the time is way too much. Nothing ruins the game for a Necron's opponent than feeling like you never accomplish anything in a turn.
Tau are Gundam ripoffs. Also, there is no reason their stuff should be MCs. They are walkers. They have pilots.
The factions I hate most is the necrons. They are the biggest Mary Sue faction in the game. Runner up is Eldar, as their codexes so very often seem to be broken.
Vankraken wrote: At my FLGS, the TFG is an Eldar player who loves to gloat about how brokenly op the codex is. Also his dice are often called into question as he rolls the same few dice for moral checks and a different set for shooting. He rolls a lot of 1s and 2s for moral and a lot of 6s for shooting. I guess he is forging the narrative with his dice having fortune and guide.
That is one of the classic signs of a cheater.
The next time you play them, if they continue with their mysterious dice-rolling ways, ask to swap dice with them. If they aren't cheating, and only truly blessed by the dice gods, it won't matter what dice they roll.
I get where you're coming from with this, and I understand your reasoning. I have also seen many people try and cheat using these methods. As for me, I'm just genuinely superstitious about dice. Nothing else, just dice. And I'm not just talking about "this one has rolled badly 3 or 4 times so it goes back in the box for now."
As such, at the beginning of any game, I WILL split my dice into piles and designate certain piles for certain rolls. Now, if I require more dice or whatever I will just grab anything and everything, but I will try and separate them off again afterwards.
I will happily switch which dice I will be using for which task, or even use your dice...If you ask me at the beginning of a game. But if asked mid-game it really will throw me off balance and I'll lose what I was thinking about the next few turns. I know it's ridiculous and makes no sense, but it really would bother me. Once a die has been designated as an LD test die, that is what I like it's main use to be in game. Only just getting back into 40k, but I've been back into wargaming for over a year now and it's been the same in plenty of other games. These are for these kinda checks, this is for this job. In some games I have even gone so far on occasion to set aside specific dice for specific characters/models.
As an Ork player I personally LIKE Space Marines, IG (only 1 game against them though, DE, Tau, Nids and pretty much every other army out their, with the exception of Eldar. I have met TFG eldar player and I also think that the best player I have ever played against as far as knowledge, rules, and gamesmanship was an Eldar player. It has more to do with the way each codex they come out with is broken and makes players not want to face them. Every army is good at one thing, ok at another thing and garbage at something. Eldar are either great at everything or well above average at everything. They kind of took the role of the Space Marines but instead of paying an absurd amount of points for their OP cheese models they get to continue to pay less.
I am honestly a bit flabbergasted by the number of "I hate orks" posts. For the most part it seems its because Ork players get into the feel of the army and start speaking words with an orkish flavor. Or one person who called ork players childish...kind of don't understand that one. But whatever floats your boat.
Ghazkuul wrote: As an Ork player I personally LIKE Space Marines, IG (only 1 game against them though, DE, Tau, Nids and pretty much every other army out their, with the exception of Eldar. I have met TFG eldar player and I also think that the best player I have ever played against as far as knowledge, rules, and gamesmanship was an Eldar player. It has more to do with the way each codex they come out with is broken and makes players not want to face them. Every army is good at one thing, ok at another thing and garbage at something. Eldar are either great at everything or well above average at everything. They kind of took the role of the Space Marines but instead of paying an absurd amount of points for their OP cheese models they get to continue to pay less.
I am honestly a bit flabbergasted by the number of "I hate orks" posts. For the most part it seems its because Ork players get into the feel of the army and start speaking words with an orkish flavor. Or one person who called ork players childish...kind of don't understand that one. But whatever floats your boat.
I feel like you've had only bad experiences with Eldar players. If I ended up playing against you with my Eldar army, I think you'd have a fun time.
I am honestly a bit flabbergasted by the number of "I hate orks" posts. For the most part it seems its because Ork players get into the feel of the army and start speaking words with an orkish flavor. Or one person who called ork players childish...kind of don't understand that one. But whatever floats your boat.
I wouldn't worry about that. He also called SMs childish and hates:
-Orks
-Grey Knights
-SMs -BAs
-DAs -SWs -CSMs -IG -Eldar
-Young people
So you're not alone in being an army who he hates.
I like all of them. I dislike somewhat the Necron remake, but I realize that that is part of GW toning down the horror aspect of the game, probably part of trying to appeal to a wider audience. Which you can also see in the partial de-grimdarking of Space Marines.
Though on the other hand Mechanicus is very grimdark... probably why they are currently my favorite!
Vitali Advenil wrote: Elves are always the "dignified, holier-than thou race that is so super-special and mystic, and the puny mortal races could never understand their higher thinking."
I hate Eldar partially because a lot of the Eldar players I've met are like that, too.
At my FLGS, the TFG is an Eldar player who loves to gloat about how brokenly op the codex is. Also his dice are often called into question as he rolls the same few dice for moral checks and a different set for shooting. He rolls a lot of 1s and 2s for moral and a lot of 6s for shooting. I guess he is forging the narrative with his dice having fortune and guide.
I hate these players for making actual Eldar players look bad. There was a point where you kind of had to use different squads like different tools and the challenge was trying to balance the army, now its like "lol take 2 wraithknights and win".
I dislike the marines because they take up far too many resources they could be using on the other races as well.
Ghazkuul wrote: As an Ork player I personally LIKE Space Marines, IG (only 1 game against them though, DE, Tau, Nids and pretty much every other army out their, with the exception of Eldar. I have met TFG eldar player and I also think that the best player I have ever played against as far as knowledge, rules, and gamesmanship was an Eldar player. It has more to do with the way each codex they come out with is broken and makes players not want to face them. Every army is good at one thing, ok at another thing and garbage at something. Eldar are either great at everything or well above average at everything. They kind of took the role of the Space Marines but instead of paying an absurd amount of points for their OP cheese models they get to continue to pay less.
I am honestly a bit flabbergasted by the number of "I hate orks" posts. For the most part it seems its because Ork players get into the feel of the army and start speaking words with an orkish flavor. Or one person who called ork players childish...kind of don't understand that one. But whatever floats your boat.
I feel like you've had only bad experiences with Eldar players. If I ended up playing against you with my Eldar army, I think you'd have a fun time.
lol reread the post i said I have met TFG eldar player and I have met the best player I have yet to meet in this game and he was an Eldar player. It has more to do with GW giving the Eldar preferential treatment Edition after Edition.
Ghazkuul wrote: As an Ork player I personally LIKE Space Marines, IG (only 1 game against them though, DE, Tau, Nids and pretty much every other army out their, with the exception of Eldar. I have met TFG eldar player and I also think that the best player I have ever played against as far as knowledge, rules, and gamesmanship was an Eldar player. It has more to do with the way each codex they come out with is broken and makes players not want to face them. Every army is good at one thing, ok at another thing and garbage at something. Eldar are either great at everything or well above average at everything. They kind of took the role of the Space Marines but instead of paying an absurd amount of points for their OP cheese models they get to continue to pay less.
I am honestly a bit flabbergasted by the number of "I hate orks" posts. For the most part it seems its because Ork players get into the feel of the army and start speaking words with an orkish flavor. Or one person who called ork players childish...kind of don't understand that one. But whatever floats your boat.
I feel like you've had only bad experiences with Eldar players. If I ended up playing against you with my Eldar army, I think you'd have a fun time.
lol reread the post i said I have met TFG eldar player and I have met the best player I have yet to meet in this game and he was an Eldar player. It has more to do with GW giving the Eldar preferential treatment Edition after Edition.
Oh my. I'm such an idiot. I literally skimmed past that bit. Haha, sorry. :p
I'm a Tau player but what I hate most is what GW is doing to the Tau.
I hate that they've become a gunline. In fluff they are meant to be a hard hitting mobile arms style army, akin to modern armies of today.
They used to be able to play that way, with the Fish of Fury tactic in 4th. There must surely be a middle ground somewhere between the boring gunline and the 4th ed Fish of Fury.
Instead of that, though, we get bigger robots shoehorned in and a playstyle designed to be as static as possible.
Big Mac wrote: I hate GK so much so that if they are my allies I will barrage them, impede them, disrupt them, and kill them in anyway possible on the table.
My main army is IG, ever since I read that crappy fluff about GK turn against their allies after an engagement due to possible future taint. Yet they are psykers themselves, bunch of hypocrites.
They execute or mind-wipe former allies because the GK are an ultra-top-secret aspect of the Imperium. Even most of the Inquisition doesn't know they exist, even members of the Ordo Malleus (for whom the GK are the Chamber Militant). It's not (always) because of the risk of future taint, it's because two men can keep a secret if one is dead (or has his memory erased).
As a KDK player I hate slaanesh and armies with psykers but at the same time I'm also a fan of slaanesh and psykers (I also have a daemon army) and weirdly I have a respect for Eldar and people who play the faction. Especially ones who started before 6th ed. I also have a great respect for DE players
Oh I hate blood angels too they are basically khorne wannabes mixed with twilight
I do, however, heavily dislike the direction some of the factions have taken (in terms of recent fluff and playstyles) and also feel disappointment about how badly some other factions have been fleshed out.
Imperial Knights are a sorry excuse to sell huge toys. They would be ok as a collectors' item but have no place on a 28mm scale battlefield. Simple as that.
Grey Knights are probably the army I feel less sympathy towards. As other users have said before, everything was fine when they were a mysterious chapter of secretive bastards. Then The Ward came along, and his terrible 15-years old fanboy writing came with him, and he turned them into a chapter of mary sue super super ultracool marines. Not only Draigo is probably the most Mary Sue character ever written for 40k, his fluff is easily the worse piece of gak I've ever seen.
Space Wolves suffer from being a nice idea that has received dismal treatment. They could have become an awesome army of true Space Vikings with a highly distinctive aesthetic. Instead they're the Furry Chapter with the 'wolf' word mercilessly spammed around. Wolf wolf wolf wolf wolf. Pathetic.
Blood Angels while not so terrible can get quite silly sometimes with the whole 'blood' thing. Bloodly Blood Bloongels. Still I will get a Sanguinor model one day and turn him to Chaos. It's something I have to do before I die
Necrons. I think the idea of "killer space robots" has potential, but over the years GW has absolutely failed to make them really interesting. Cold-looking terminators from space are fine as a first meal, but they should have gone further than that, with all kind of robotic abominations, instead of adding more and more silly-looking terminators with silly-looking weapons and mounted on silly-looking vehicles (the croissant, the terminator bus, etc.). At this point, after the terrible mess done to their fluff in 5th ed. - guess who's back, back again, Ward is back, for the fail - they're probably beyond saving. Gameplay-wise they also tend to be boring to play against. Even against non-Decurion lists, most of the time it feels you're facing an auto-play army that simply advances slowly towards the objectives and blatantly refuses to die, while shooting your vehicles to death with the most boring style possible.
Tau... another concept with good potential that has nearly turned into a parody of itself. As A Town Called Malus has said, they're supposed to be played in a certain way but then the army is designed to be a static, boring and irritating gunline. Same happens with their supposed aestethic ("efficient design") when met with reality (dumb-looking robots, the bigger they are, the dumber they look).
Minor offenders would be Orks (the more serious they've got one edition after another, the more ridiculous they've ended up looking, and making less and less sense each time) and Eldar (instead of a hit-and-run army focused on grabbing vital objectives and leave the battlefield quickly while sustaining the least possible amount of casualties, they have been developed as the ultimate cheese army, one edition after another, in both fluff and crunch, sporting units, abilities and weapons able to obliterate virtually every opponent without breaking a sweat).
Even against non-Decurion lists, most of the time it feels you're facing an auto-play army that simply advances slowly towards the objectives and blatantly refuses to die, while shooting your vehicles to death with the most boring style possible.
Which is how the original Necrons played when they were just metal Tyranids. They lined up, they marched across the field, they'd fall down and get back up, and keep walking.
"Advancing slowly and silently, refusing to die" has been the definition of Necrons since their inception.
Even against non-Decurion lists, most of the time it feels you're facing an auto-play army that simply advances slowly towards the objectives and blatantly refuses to die, while shooting your vehicles to death with the most boring style possible.
Which is how the original Necrons played when they were just metal Tyranids. They lined up, they marched across the field, they'd fall down and get back up, and keep walking.
"Advancing slowly and silently, refusing to die" has been the definition of Necrons since their inception.
Yes, I understand that. My issue is that GW has been unable to develop them further than that. As I said in my post, some spesss terminators are ok for starters, but Necrons should have been developed into something more interesting as the years went on. Didn't happen.
One unit or two of tough-as-nails terminators is ok. The whole army getting back on its feet after you shoot them to pieces, not ok. And extremely frustrating to play against.
Imperial Knights. The 2 model army concept belongs in a different game.
Space Orks. Seems very out of place. Silly. If they were but renamed and made yellow, they would be cool though.
People who think Tyranids doesnt bring anything special needs to read up on the genestealer cult, and the doomsday lore they preach. It is rather good I think.
Yes, I understand that. My issue is that GW has been unable to develop them further than that. As I said in my post, some spesss terminators are ok for starters, but Necrons should have been developed into something more interesting as the years went on. Didn't happen.
.
Agreed. The most interesting thing about necrons was these flayed ones and pariah's, where they sort of preyed on human life in a sort of robotic zombie way. This was never developed in any way, in stead they are stone cold boring.
Necrons are not designed to look like the Terminator. They are designed to look like metal skeletons. Since they areSpace Undead.
They look like the Terminator since the Terminator is... a metal skeleton. You cannot make a metal skeleton that does not look like the Terminator, since the Terminator is itself designed to look like a metal skeleton. Which is what it literally is.
Eldar: No seriously those guys, just the amount of core rules they just basically ignore
Heaven forbid an army includes one special rule that ignores a whole chapter of the rulebook *coughKnowNoFearcough*.
Ok, one thing that Loyalists do that, technically they don't quite. ATSKNF is basically a sub-version of Fearless.
Secondly that rule doesn't really have too much of an impact unless you're playing Malestorm of War missions and that unit that is using that rule is near an objective..
Which compared to Eldar, its pretty meek, when they have...
-Bladestorm: So yeah on a roll of a 6, you ignore Sv rolls, and whilst that doesn't sound too bad, when its mass spammed it gets tedious, but wait whats that about not being able to get through Armour? Well..
-D-weapons: So yeah basically you touch it and they die, "yey".. such originality and so interesting to play in every game, but wait its only 12"? Well then you just go to..
-WS: So basically you can accelerate that range by a milestone and I can't do decent enough damage within the context of penetrations to you because of that stupid shield? Yey so fun when they disembark next turn, but wait yet again they are somehow still out of range? well don't worry..
-Battle Focus: So yeah that negates a big portion of the book by negating the tactical choice of either running to a position or shooting a weapons, so yeah go run that extra 3" you needed to run and then shoot at the target with your massed spammed D-weapons, but wait, you're still required to hit and wound? something might go awry? Don't you worry old bean, because Eldar have...
-Massed spammed psy ery: So yeah now you massed spammed your psychic pool and psykers, now you're assured to spam Guide and Doom on to the units, whats that? I can dispel? Good luck if you haven't spammed psykers yourself or could not for obvious reasons..
So basically you negate the whole shooting phase now as you are able to get within range with relative ease, shoot and wound with relative ease and erase at least half you're opponents army with relative ease.
There's no tactical thought put into it because there really is no target priority when you can just blow everything off the board because nothing presents itself as a hard challenge to kill.
Meanwhile your opponent now has half an army to deal with T6 Troops that are fearless (So what was that about Loyalists ignoring a chapter of the BRB?) with more D-weapons than to shake a pointy sword at.
Loyalists get free transports you say? that really doesn't matter when your army just flicks them to the side, heck even better Eldar would be farming them in games of annihilation so that would help the Eldar player more than the Loyalist player himself..
So Loyalists ignore a chapter of the rulebook as you say yes? at least they don't negate a whole section of the rulebook that revolves around the most favored section of the rules like the craftworld Eldar
And lets not go into the Waithknight with added invisibility to add salt to the wound so to say..
As a filthy Heretic and a foul Xeno myself I never would have thought I would be saying Loyalists were not as bad.
Imperial Knights are a sorry excuse to sell huge toys. They would be ok as a collectors' item but have no place on a 28mm scale battlefield. Simple as that.
Grey Knights are probably the army I feel less sympathy towards. As other users have said before, everything was fine when they were a mysterious chapter of secretive bastards. Then The Ward came along, and his terrible 15-years old fanboy writing came with him, and he turned them into a chapter of mary sue super super ultracool marines. Not only Draigo is probably the most Mary Sue character ever written for 40k, his fluff is easily the worse piece of gak I've ever seen.
Grey Knights are the worst. They're basically a complete duplication of the Inquisition, if the Inquisition were staffed by a bunch of invincible psychic boy scouts. The Inquisition is fantastic fluff because it feeds the grimdarkness with morally questionable tactics being used to combat the most vile and malevolent forces in secret wars and hidden engagements. The Inquisitors and Deathwatch are waging war in the dark and fighting to stave off corruption and death at every turn. GKs are just "herp derp, we're immune to Chaos." How is every GK immune to the force that corrupted the greatest of the Emperor's warmasters and half of the primarchs? How boring would Star Wars be if Luke were straight up immune to the Dark Side? They also ruin the scariness of Chaos. Once upon a time it was Space Marines engaging demons and being torn to shreds or fighting tooth and nail to destroy them, then the GK just walk along taking out dozens of demons like it's nothing. It ruins the notion that Space Marines are the ultimate warriors of humanity, and it just takes all the fun out of the fluff.
Knights stink because they're so vastly underdeveloped. GW wrote like 200 pages of fluff and then just pumped out two models. It's a totally wasted opportunity. IKs as they are would've made great HQ and Heavy Support units, but would have been so much cooler with dreadnaught sized men-at-arms (like the Skitarii castellan robots) and peasant militia infantry. As is, they are just an entire army of vehicles that can't be shaken, stunned, immobilized, or have their weapons destroyed. Zero fun to play against.
If you read closely between the lines, I think you'll see that GKs are not really immune to chaos, and the constant claims that they are (while engaging in baths of blood to ward off chaos and using sorcery!) are meant to highlight the Imperial hypocrisy and self-deception that are 40K themes.
The actual, under-the-surface theme is that Grey Knights are delusional hypocrits(like everyone else in Imperial society). It's a constant theme in 40K -- "kill the mutant" dogma while being reliant on psykers is another one. Part of the "corrupt, dying empire" motif.
Alcibiades wrote: If you read closely between the lines, I think you'll see that GKs are not really immune to chaos, and the constant claims that they are (while engaging in baths of blood to ward off chaos and using sorcery!) are meant to highlight the Imperial hypocrisy and self-deception that are 40K themes.
The actual, under-the-surface theme is that Grey Knights are delusional hypocrits(like everyone else in Imperial society). It's a constant theme in 40K -- "kill the mutant" dogma while being reliant on psykers is another one. Part of the "corrupt, dying empire" motif.
That would make sense if the Grey Knights weren't a secret sub-faction that no one is allowed to know about. It's pointless to have propaganda that is secret from the general population. And Draigo is literally living in the immaterium not being corrupted for years and years. Purifiers are somehow entrusted with secret knowledge that's so super-stupid secret that GKs that learn it must be put to death. It's just such absurdity piled on top of all the regular Space Marine absurdity. The GKs add nothing to the story that the Inquisition didn't already offer, and the Inquisition fluff is more grimdark, more intriguing, and more fun.
I suppose the fluff I'm the least fan of might be the Tyranids but I do like aspects of it. The detailed itinerant process in which a fleet strips a planet down to bio mass and collects it gives my heart a little flutter. Those rippers even slaughter the nids as well, turning everything to sludge. They just make more nids from that same bio mass anyways. The genestealer stuff didn't really capture me much. I'm struggling with reconciling them with the rest of my perception of the tyranid fleets. I'll have to read up on them all over again and pick up what I missed cuz as I said for some reason they didn't gain my attention much. (I'll admit this is from 3 or 4th edition codexes, I've not picked up any codexes since till now with these Ork books that I got for 7th).
Alcibiades wrote: If you read closely between the lines, I think you'll see that GKs are not really immune to chaos, and the constant claims that they are (while engaging in baths of blood to ward off chaos and using sorcery!) are meant to highlight the Imperial hypocrisy and self-deception that are 40K themes.
The actual, under-the-surface theme is that Grey Knights are delusional hypocrits(like everyone else in Imperial society). It's a constant theme in 40K -- "kill the mutant" dogma while being reliant on psykers is another one. Part of the "corrupt, dying empire" motif.
That would make sense if the Grey Knights weren't a secret sub-faction that no one is allowed to know about. It's pointless to have propaganda that is secret from the general population. And Draigo is literally living in the immaterium not being corrupted for years and years. Purifiers are somehow entrusted with secret knowledge that's so super-stupid secret that GKs that learn it must be put to death. It's just such absurdity piled on top of all the regular Space Marine absurdity. The GKs add nothing to the story that the Inquisition didn't already offer, and the Inquisition fluff is more grimdark, more intriguing, and more fun.
It's not presented as in-universe propaganda. It's presented as a joke for the reader of the codex. That's why it's absurd. Things obviously can't be as they are presented.
"They're totally incorruptible. So incorruptible that they take baths in blood to protect from corruption! And carry daemon weapons that they don't use lest they be corrupted!"
Alcibiades wrote: If you read closely between the lines, I think you'll see that GKs are not really immune to chaos, and the constant claims that they are (while engaging in baths of blood to ward off chaos and using sorcery!) are meant to highlight the Imperial hypocrisy and self-deception that are 40K themes.
The actual, under-the-surface theme is that Grey Knights are delusional hypocrits(like everyone else in Imperial society). It's a constant theme in 40K -- "kill the mutant" dogma while being reliant on psykers is another one. Part of the "corrupt, dying empire" motif.
That would make sense if the Grey Knights weren't a secret sub-faction that no one is allowed to know about. It's pointless to have propaganda that is secret from the general population. And Draigo is literally living in the immaterium not being corrupted for years and years. Purifiers are somehow entrusted with secret knowledge that's so super-stupid secret that GKs that learn it must be put to death. It's just such absurdity piled on top of all the regular Space Marine absurdity. The GKs add nothing to the story that the Inquisition didn't already offer, and the Inquisition fluff is more grimdark, more intriguing, and more fun.
It's not presented as in-universe propaganda. It's presented as a joke for the reader of the codex. That's why it's absurd. Things obviously can't be as they are presented.
"They're totally incorruptible. So incorruptible that they take baths in blood to protect from corruption! And carry daemon weapons that they don't use lest they be corrupted!"
No, it is a joke but was written with all seriousness. Remember, it came from the same person who said that all Space Marines want to be Ultramarines and whose defence of a book so overpowered that it single-handedly destroyed the entire balance of an edition of WHFB was "Daemons are meant to be powerful".
Necrons. Im gonna puke blood if another warrior blob shrugs off an apocalyptic wave of firepower, and then regenerates its casualties.
After that eldar craftworld expansions. SM books just hrelp a mid tier army specialize, and more often than not make the army worse (BAs, SWs & old DAs). The Eldar expansions make an overpowered army worse. Every single unit in that codex is playable or wildly overpowered. Its a waste of GWs time & diminished, nigh impoverished creative capabilities.
War Kitten wrote: I mildly dislike the tau. No particular reason, I just don't
Nothing wrong with that, so long as you don't try to ruin the fun of people who do like Tau or make stupid and unreasonable statements about how they should be Squatted or unceremoniously removed from the game based on your personal dislike of them.
Which is sadly what everyone else does.
EDIT: God fething damn it, I hate when you're directly replying to someone above you and then someone else sneaks in a post after you hit the button.
I do, however, heavily dislike the direction some of the factions have taken (in terms of recent fluff and playstyles) and also feel disappointment about how badly some other factions have been fleshed out.
Imperial Knights are a sorry excuse to sell huge toys. They would be ok as a collectors' item but have no place on a 28mm scale battlefield. Simple as that.
Grey Knights are probably the army I feel less sympathy towards. As other users have said before, everything was fine when they were a mysterious chapter of secretive bastards. Then The Ward came along, and his terrible 15-years old fanboy writing came with him, and he turned them into a chapter of mary sue super super ultracool marines. Not only Draigo is probably the most Mary Sue character ever written for 40k, his fluff is easily the worse piece of gak I've ever seen.
Space Wolves suffer from being a nice idea that has received dismal treatment. They could have become an awesome army of true Space Vikings with a highly distinctive aesthetic. Instead they're the Furry Chapter with the 'wolf' word mercilessly spammed around. Wolf wolf wolf wolf wolf. Pathetic.
Blood Angels while not so terrible can get quite silly sometimes with the whole 'blood' thing. Bloodly Blood Bloongels. Still I will get a Sanguinor model one day and turn him to Chaos. It's something I have to do before I die
Necrons. I think the idea of "killer space robots" has potential, but over the years GW has absolutely failed to make them really interesting. Cold-looking terminators from space are fine as a first meal, but they should have gone further than that, with all kind of robotic abominations, instead of adding more and more silly-looking terminators with silly-looking weapons and mounted on silly-looking vehicles (the croissant, the terminator bus, etc.). At this point, after the terrible mess done to their fluff in 5th ed. - guess who's back, back again, Ward is back, for the fail - they're probably beyond saving. Gameplay-wise they also tend to be boring to play against. Even against non-Decurion lists, most of the time it feels you're facing an auto-play army that simply advances slowly towards the objectives and blatantly refuses to die, while shooting your vehicles to death with the most boring style possible.
Tau... another concept with good potential that has nearly turned into a parody of itself. As A Town Called Malus has said, they're supposed to be played in a certain way but then the army is designed to be a static, boring and irritating gunline. Same happens with their supposed aestethic ("efficient design") when met with reality (dumb-looking robots, the bigger they are, the dumber they look).
Minor offenders would be Orks (the more serious they've got one edition after another, the more ridiculous they've ended up looking, and making less and less sense each time) and Eldar (instead of a hit-and-run army focused on grabbing vital objectives and leave the battlefield quickly while sustaining the least possible amount of casualties, they have been developed as the ultimate cheese army, one edition after another, in both fluff and crunch, sporting units, abilities and weapons able to obliterate virtually every opponent without breaking a sweat).
Exalted!
However I don't think demons belong in the setting. As an addendum to Chaos marines they are ok, but on their own (as stated by several) they are pretty stupid. If I wanted to fight an army of demons I'd play fantasy.
It's kinda funny actually, apparently no one who plays 40k wants actual sci-fi armies in their sci-fi game. It's why races like Tau and Tyranids are some of the most-hated armies, despite being pretty tropey sci-fi and a perfect fit otherwise, and everyone loves factions like Marines or Orks instead, which are basically just lazy fantasy analogues given guns and tanks. No one really liked pre-Ward Necrons, either, even though they were much less of a fantasy analogue than they currently are and the fluff was much darker, almost Lovecraftian.
Daemons could have worked if GW had gone the DOOM route and made everything more "biomechanical" looking, kinda like the soulgrinder, but the vast majority of the range are just straight-up WHF models, complete with musicians and standard bearers, with the only thing making them fit in 40k being their round bases (and not even that anymore since AoS is all round). The idea that everything has to work in both game systems is really limiting in my opinion, and makes everything look a little bit like generic fantasy.
Just because GW writes some inconsistencies for some common sci-fi tropes doesn't mean they are now somehow invalid. What's more iconic than a race of evil robots or hideous creatures out to devour life?
Both orks and eldar may be a stretch, but I look at them more as representative of a style rather than their fantasy equivalents. Not sure why the demons somehow break it for me.
Sidstyler wrote: It's kinda funny actually, apparently no one who plays 40k wants actual sci-fi armies in their sci-fi game. It's why races like Tau and Tyranids are some of the most-hated armies, despite being pretty tropey sci-fi and a perfect fit otherwise, and everyone loves factions like Marines or Orks instead, which are basically just lazy fantasy analogues given guns and tanks. No one really liked pre-Ward Necrons, either, even though they were much less of a fantasy analogue than they currently are and the fluff was much darker, almost Lovecraftian.
Daemons could have worked if GW had gone the DOOM route and made everything more "biomechanical" looking, kinda like the soulgrinder, but the vast majority of the range are just straight-up WHF models, complete with musicians and standard bearers, with the only thing making them fit in 40k being their round bases (and not even that anymore since AoS is all round). The idea that everything has to work in both game systems is really limiting in my opinion, and makes everything look a little bit like generic fantasy.
I think all races add to the game in some way. It just makes the game more rich. And I do agree with your Daemons comment. I think if they did change them a bit, it would be better.
Sidstyler wrote: It's kinda funny actually, apparently no one who plays 40k wants actual sci-fi armies in their sci-fi game. It's why races like Tau and Tyranids are some of the most-hated armies, despite being pretty tropey sci-fi and a perfect fit otherwise, and everyone loves factions like Marines or Orks instead, which are basically just lazy fantasy analogues given guns and tanks. No one really liked pre-Ward Necrons, either, even though they were much less of a fantasy analogue than they currently are and the fluff was much darker, almost Lovecraftian.
I did
As I said in my post, pre-Ward Necrons were nice as a first step, an introduction as a full-fledged faction in the game. The fluff was cool, and the army had a distinctive feeling to it, specially due to the mistery aura that surrounded them.
Then Ward came. And turned them into silly tomb kings in spesss. For vehicles, they got the skimmer terminator bus, the spider with a terminator on top pressing the buttons & joystick, the croissant, the incredibly silly tomb blades, etc. Even something that looks actually decent, like the annihilation barges, had to get not one but two terminators pressing buttons. Add an incredible amount of goofy names (Imotekh, Zahndrekh, Szarekh... seriously Ward? That was the best you could come up with?) and a satinized fluff, and you get a potentially awesome faction ruined. No longer a silent, dark menace with a lovecraftian feel, but a bunch of space pharaohs wannabes trotting around.
I don't really dislike any of the armies I think they all have some pretty neat ideas and fluff.. Granted many of these narratives get a little hokey but I'm already a happy to suspend my disbelief for fun.
I think it's been pointed out before where someone was talking about people who choose armies based on their special rules not their fluff or models. I think that's pretty lame - the example he gave was a Tau Commander suit who apparently could buff a unit of necron immortals and when asked what the story was behind that the other player simply shrugged. Though that's not really an inherent flaw with a faction(still not sure how he got away with that as I don't think the tau could buff the necrons being only allies of convenience)
I understand why Necrons & Eldar get a lot of hate - not necessarily fluff wise but because they do have strong rules.
That said I enjoy playing games with both as they both provide a significant challenge. Even if I lose the majority of these games.
Once you've played against 1 Necron player, you've played against them all.
They're so friggin BORING to look at, play against, and to play with.
This is weird to me because my lists almost never look the same.
Sometimes I'll do scarab farm, other times I'll go full melee with praetorians and sling-shot lychguards, or I'll unleash the full power of several C'tan and rarely I'll do a footslog spam with ghost arks and warriros.
A mix of any of the above is also possible. I hardly see how if you play one of my lists you've played them all.
That said, I'd personally say I dislike Tau but I've got to be honest that's largely due to me only frequently facing one Tau player who's list largely looks the same every time I play against him. I've played another Tau player recently and even tough he kicked my but because he had 2 Y'vahra's, it was a refreshing experience not seeing missilespam.
In the end, I still think markerlights are a bad mechanic that has no place within the game as it just counters some armies out of existence.
I think it is funny that people dont like the Idea of Chaos Deamons. They are Gods and will never, and can never die. This makes sense to me that they would be in both games.
With that being said though I hate Deamonkin book. It is a bad book from the start. They took 2 books and combined them without making any real changes. They realised that possed where never getting used in the CSM book so they had to find a way to move that product, then they released a $120 Bloodthirster Model and made a book where to get the full power out of it you need to have 2 or more of them. Summoning can suck to go against especially in anything under 1850 points, but at least you have a chance to stop it. In the Deamonkin book they get stuff if they kill you, they get stuff when you kill them. Its a very weighted system compaired to others that can summon, deamon or CSM, poop out bugs, tyranids, o and dont forget they can strait up summon if they want to as well.
My least favourite are Slaneesh CSM and Dark Eldar.
Firstly a Space Marine that wields a big music launcher is just... Stupid... "IT'S GUNNA GET LOUD NOW!" *facepalm*
Dark Eldar are just messed up and disgusting. Why people would want to play as them is beyond me - flying around in their brothal boats, cutting people into bits and spreading their insides across the room in an intricate spiderweb of veins and organs, all the while keeping said people alive and probably "shooting their load" all over the dying people. WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO PLAY AS THESE PEOPLE?! *weeps openly*
Tiberius501 wrote: Firstly a Space Marine that wields a big music launcher is just... Stupid... "IT'S GUNNA GET LOUD NOW!" *facepalm*
This is valid, but its a hold over from Rogue Trader when Noise Marines where literally just marines with huge speakers set into their shoulder pads and they played guitars. It was a glorious time. A time of Mono-Mohawks, Rock Star Orks, Doom Rider, and Tank Surfing.
Edit: found a pic
For me, i hate Eldar. Not even from the tabletop, i had the fact that they are frelling arrogant as High Elves that could have stopped so many problems if they would just talk to the Imperium. And yes the IoM will probably never open Diplomatic ties with them now but go back a ways and it was a real possibilty. Granted it wasnt all their fault but their frelling arrogance just made it all worse
Gameplay-wise i severely dislike eldar - they didn't need buffing or point drops - i wanted to see the wraithknight as a highly mobile equal to an imperial knight rather than how it ended up.
It could have been a wonderous time for SM and eldar players which mimicked the epic games of old with knights pitching into each other with supporting units clashing among them. but no, the stick of warding hit the eldar 'dex
I wonder who it was who decided that we needed the d-weapon chart?
I much prefer the old rules from apocalypse where d weapons auto pen, auto wound, ignore cover, ignore armour and cause instant death. you could take invuln saves against d-weapons and using the normal vehicle damage chart and the variety of results your shooting could have made so much more sense - you could halve it's movement or stun it's weapons or even just wreck it where it stands; not just remove a set number of hull point until it goes nuclear and everything near it takes d-weapon hits.
I suppose i'm saying my biggest problem is free formation bonusses, power creep since and including the last necron 'dex and GW's inability to see the need for proper playtesting.
'Escalation' gets a mention here after giving eldar titans the ability to ignore two thirds of all incoming fire regardless of direction, distance, abilities, rules or logic.
Firstly a Space Marine that wields a big music launcher is just... Stupid... "IT'S GUNNA GET LOUD NOW!" *facepalm*
Dark Eldar are just messed up and disgusting. Why people would want to play as them is beyond me - flying around in their brothal boats, cutting people into bits and spreading their insides across the room in an intricate spiderweb of veins and organs, all the while keeping said people alive and probably "shooting their load" all over the dying people. WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO PLAY AS THESE PEOPLE?! *weeps openly*
The sickening part is the most fun. The more messed up lore, the better.
Firstly a Space Marine that wields a big music launcher is just... Stupid... "IT'S GUNNA GET LOUD NOW!" *facepalm*
Dark Eldar are just messed up and disgusting. Why people would want to play as them is beyond me - flying around in their brothal boats, cutting people into bits and spreading their insides across the room in an intricate spiderweb of veins and organs, all the while keeping said people alive and probably "shooting their load" all over the dying people. WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO PLAY AS THESE PEOPLE?! *weeps openly*
The sickening part is the most fun. The more messed up lore, the better.
I'm mentally stable, I promise.
Precisely. Playing games will always involve a bit of escapism, and part of that is playing with concepts you would never consider in real life.
I am happy to report that I don't dislike any faction in 40k. But my least favourite by far is Grey Knights. Space Marines are already the most super elite group of elite space knights, and then you have the Grey Knight who are a super elite group of super elite space knights among the super elite space knights. Everything about the Grey Knights reads like a 10 year old's mary sue fan fiction. Now 40k is all about being over the top, so it has its place, but I am not a fan of it.
Dark Eldar are just messed up and disgusting. Why people would want to play as them is beyond me - flying around in their brothal boats, cutting people into bits and spreading their insides across the room in an intricate spiderweb of veins and organs, all the while keeping said people alive and probably "shooting their load" all over the dying people. WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO PLAY AS THESE PEOPLE?! *weeps openly*
Probably for the same reason people play as the Germans in WW2 games. They may commit unspeakable atrocities, but damn do they look classy while doing so.
Aesthetics and fluff its Tau. Too much sci fi in my space fantasy thank you. Plus being such a small force and all they just seem shoehorned into the setting as a whole.
Playstyle wise its IG, Tau and Eldar. Plus Daemons of Khorne. IG and Tau because static gunline (especially "barrage gunline", many skill such dice right there). Eldar because broken gak and solitare gameplay - "I roll these dice that let me reroll my dice and just roll all day long now remove your models please while I spank off in a corner". And daemons of khorne (despite playing them) because god damn that is one nonfunctional army right there, is it too much to ask for the psyker hating blood god to crap on psykers a bit and be slightly decent in melee?
I can understand a lot of the SM hate going on in the thread. I like SM if only because they were my first army when my bro and I got the 3rd ed beginner box. I'm not a super competitive player, so I like my armies and battles to reflect the fluff, somewhat.
I took a long hiatus and returned to see my beloved SW had been bastardized from Space Vikings into space marines with a wolf fetish. As somebody else mentioned "Wolf wolf wolf wolf wolf". I mean, riding wolves?! In the year 40,000? In battle? It was tough for me to return to SW to see my LR Exterminator that purged so many Xenos gone and instead there was ridiculous Astartes-riding canines. Ruined the SW for me. Honestly ruined SW for me. I converted some of my SW models to Flesh Tearers since their fluff and tactics attracted me more than riding wolves.
I guess any unit that uses bikes goes along those lines, so CSM, SM, DA especially. Driving motorcycles on a battlefield is just stupid to me.
As a military veteran, a lot of modeling and battlefield decisions that work out baffle me, but, you gotta leave that at the door since this is more of a fantasy in space than sci-fi setting. Sometimes, though, the fantasy can be too much (see: riding wolves).
Fluff-wise, eh, I would say Necrons, but it's not a hate, more of a dislike. Undead Egyptian robots. not much there for me.
While there's not much love for them in this thread or fluff behind Tyranids, I do like they add variety to the mix. You get the Aliens from Alien and with the hive-mind from Starship Troopers and the 'we will consume your entire planet before moving on to the next' doom and gloom from Independence Day.
As a Slaanesh CSM player, I could see people hating on noise weapons, but we're developing noise weapons for crowd control nowadays, and some of them are pretty crazy. I mean, some of them make people vomit or feel like their skin's on fire, so that could be more plausible than some other things in the 41st millennium (like riding wolves. Did I mention that yet?).
Once you've played against 1 Necron player, you've played against them all.
They're so friggin BORING to look at, play against, and to play with.
I play necrons and lemme tell you its a blast.
There are innumerable tactics and army lists that you can employ to change up the game.
Sometimes I take Decurion: Reclamation, Destroyer Cult, Canoptek Harvest.
Other times I take Decurion: Reclamation, Canoptek Harvest, Judicator Batallion
If I'm feeling zesty I'll take a Annihilation Nexus.
wuestenfux wrote: Cannot tell.
I played against all factions too often to hate one of them.
I have the opposite problem. I've played too few to hate anything.
I've played like 13 games.
8 Fething Eldar games
1 GK 1 SW 1 Imperial Knights (6 Titans)
1 Salamanders(w/Primarch) /Imperial Titans/ Other SM chapter I think it was custom(It was an Apocalypse game. IoM vs Necron/Eldar)
1 CSM (cultist blob heavy)
So I can't really hate anything for play yet, although Eldar is making a push for it.
As far as fluff-wise, I both love and hate Newcrons.
I love it cause it gave the army a personality, and allowed for actual painting customization, rather than forcing the terminator look.
I hate it cause it took away their threat, they aren't a unified force anymore, and have ended up like the Tau.
A slightly more efficient IoM.
They should have kept an overall leader, having the Silent King keep the command protocols, or maybe one of the remaining Ctan (Outsider, Void Dragon) would have kept them dangerous.
That way they're still individual bickering dynasties, but only because a certain power allows it.
Eldar has the technology. Chaos, Orks, and Tyranids all outnumber them.
Necrons are only a galactic threat because they combine Eldar Tech with Tyranid Loyalty.
No but seriously, back in the day (a couple winters ago) I used to play against a pretty hard Nurgle Marine guy and a Dark Eldar dude, two brothers actually and I thought that was tough. Then Nurgle guy started collecting Tau, mostly as a FU to his bro, who just loved his DE trickery. Boy did that arms race escalate. Poor little me caught in the crossfire as this Tau army sprung up and started dominating my table. I had to work pretty friggin hard to eke out wins against the Tau. I think this was a big part of the reason why I eventually switched from Chaos Marines to Vanilla. If you look really close at my elite Marines you can see they are in fact CSMs! Same with my Rhino. Admittedly it got much easier to deal with Tau after that but I still have a healthy respect for those gimpy little fish heads.
A little too much respect sometimes. Ha! They say you can only truly know something if first you hate it. Maybe I made that up? Maybe I read it somewhere? At any rate sometimes I look at those damnable stupid Tau and think now if I had some extra time and money...
Dakkamite wrote: Aesthetics and fluff its Tau. Too much sci fi in my space fantasy thank you. Plus being such a small force and all they just seem shoehorned into the setting as a whole.
Playstyle wise its IG, Tau and Eldar. Plus Daemons of Khorne. IG and Tau because static gunline (especially "barrage gunline", many skill such dice right there). Eldar because broken gak and solitare gameplay - "I roll these dice that let me reroll my dice and just roll all day long now remove your models please while I spank off in a corner". And daemons of khorne (despite playing them) because god damn that is one nonfunctional army right there, is it too much to ask for the psyker hating blood god to crap on psykers a bit and be slightly decent in melee?
Everyone complains about my Tau Gunline until I bust out the XV 8 spam with Farsight.
eldar because their games are as boring as heck, their math games to me and unless were playing 6th edition and im packing d weapons i refuse to play them outright, their codex is broken, their players tend to dig wayyyyyyy too much into mathhammer and they ted to be overly competitive. the eldar codex is evil and everything that it touches turns into corporate executives.. only genuinely stab you in the face evil ones
Once you've played against 1 Necron player, you've played against them all.
They're so friggin BORING to look at, play against, and to play with.
Well, sir. I take offense to this.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Imperium. Fluffwise and crunchwise. Battle brothers are stupid, and they get special treatment because they're the poster children of 40k. And fluffwise, they're a bunch of a-holes.
Tau annoy me. I don't hate them, but the prevalence of such a minor race, as well as their pseudo-noblebright gak, simply irritates me.
In my own codex, it would have to be Ultramarines. Most of the Ward gobbledygook has been toned down in the newest codex, but they still have way more named characters than they deserve (seriously, how is it that the smurfs got the HQ that gives you another tank before IH did?).
Once you've played against 1 Necron player, you've played against them all.
They're so friggin BORING to look at, play against, and to play with.
Well, sir. I take offense to this.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Imperium. Fluffwise and crunchwise. Battle brothers are stupid, and they get special treatment because they're the poster children of 40k. And fluffwise, they're a bunch of a-holes.
That's the way, uh-huh - uh-huh, I liike it, uh-huh-uh-huh...
Don't cry because Marneus Calgar can play with a Monolith like a goddamn Frisbee!
Also they require no effort whatsoever to paint. Slap some Leadbelcher, Nuln and Necron Compound on and you're done. If you're REALLY creative you'll edge highlight with Runefang Steel and maybe change the eye colour. AND THE POSES, SO STATIC! At least Marines have alot more dynamic poses, more challenging mini's and Characters with some depth rather than:
"We dun effed up a few eons ago, so lets kill everything." whereas the Marines fight because they NEED to, because they know if they don't, their entire race is basically down the drain. Necrons have no reason to fight whatsoever and their fluff is incredibly boring.
Eldar are also boring fluffwise and they're elves in SPESS. Originality nil.
Before you say that the concept of genetically enhanced badasses in power armour is unoriginal, Marines have existed since Rogue Trader and many other Sci-Fi movies/games/books have tried to emulate that (HALO I'M LOOKING AT YOU).
Tau also suck because they are so boring to play with. Movement Phase mightaswell not exist for them.
Once you've played against 1 Necron player, you've played against them all.
They're so friggin BORING to look at, play against, and to play with.
Well, sir. I take offense to this.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Imperium. Fluffwise and crunchwise. Battle brothers are stupid, and they get special treatment because they're the poster children of 40k. And fluffwise, they're a bunch of a-holes.
That's the way, uh-huh - uh-huh, I liike it, uh-huh-uh-huh...
Don't cry because Marneus Calgar can play with a Monolith like a goddamn Frisbee!
Also they require no effort whatsoever to paint. Slap some Leadbelcher, Nuln and Necron Compound on and you're done. If you're REALLY creative you'll edge highlight with Runefang Steel and maybe change the eye colour. AND THE POSES, SO STATIC! At least Marines have alot more dynamic poses, more challenging mini's and Characters with some depth rather than:
"We dun effed up a few eons ago, so lets kill everything." whereas the Marines fight because they NEED to, because they know if they don't, their entire race is basically down the drain. Necrons have no reason to fight whatsoever and their fluff is incredibly boring.
Eldar are also boring fluffwise and they're elves in SPESS. Originality nil.
Before you say that the concept of genetically enhanced badasses in power armour is unoriginal, Marines have existed since Rogue Trader and many other Sci-Fi movies/games/books have tried to emulate that (HALO I'M LOOKING AT YOU).
Tau also suck because they are so boring to play with. Movement Phase mightaswell not exist for them.
Umm, Necrons have reasons to fight. Basically the same reason Space Marines fight. The Imperium is as follows: "We're racist. You're Xenos? Purge purge purge, blah blah." Necrons are pretty much the same "You're an inferior race, purge purge purge, blah blah. Also, we want our kingdoms back, get off our lawn."
Also, not requiring effort to paint is a boon to many people.
Everyone complains about my Tau Gunline until I bust out the XV 8 spam with Farsight.
So you showed everyone that Tau are not a boring because instead of deploying a huge line of shooting that points and clicks at any unit it wants gone, you deepstruck a huge blob of shooting that points and clicks at any unit it wants gone?
Man, you really showed them! Now everyone surely sees how Tau are such a complex army where everything is possible!
I don't dislike any factions, they all bring something to the table. Now there are certain factions that tend to have players I dislike, namely making cheese lists and exploiting broken units. But that's unavoidable, no matter how massively or slightly something is buff those people will take it.
I don't get the complaints of "all your army does is move/shoot/assault" or "all your army does is shoot at stuff" and "all your army does is charge". It's like, what else can they do? That's kind of the game, right?
clamclaw wrote: I don't dislike any factions, they all bring something to the table. Now there are certain factions that tend to have players I dislike, namely making cheese lists and exploiting broken units. But that's unavoidable, no matter how massively or slightly something is buff those people will take it.
I don't get the complaints of "all your army does is move/shoot/assault" or "all your army does is shoot at stuff" and "all your army does is charge". It's like, what else can they do? That's kind of the game, right?
I think some are expecting a little variation.
Like while Tau are shooty, they don't expect them to just stand in one place gunlining, they'd expect some movement, positioning and so on, along with maybe the Kroot actually doing their fluff job of handling close combat instead of just being another shooty unit. (Just as an example, I'm sure there are others)
It could have been a wonderous time for SM and eldar players which mimicked the epic games of old with knights pitching into each other with supporting units clashing among them. but no, the stick of warding hit the eldar 'dex
Ward left a long time ago (and my honest stab in the dark here) mainly because I assume it was the bashing he received and still revives to this day is also why codex writers names do not show up on the codex's anymore.
Ward was an IoM lover at heart.
No what the Eldar codex got was the stick of Kelly
AFAIK Ward disliked the Elves but Kelly really likes them.. And guess who did the last eldar codex and who has not been left GW?
Yeah..
Fluffwise I guess I really dislike the whole concept of "You can't really beat the Tyranids" mainly because to me Chaos has that under its belt and whilst Necrons convey that vibe, to me they will never achieve their goal because they have only just woken up and by then its too late imo. Apart from those, nothing else really bugs me apart from "Mortarians Heart" but that doesn't exist... right?
It could have been a wonderous time for SM and eldar players which mimicked the epic games of old with knights pitching into each other with supporting units clashing among them. but no, the stick of warding hit the eldar 'dex
Ward left a long time ago (and my honest stab in the dark here) mainly because I assume it was the bashing he received and still revives to this day is also why codex writers names do not show up on the codex's anymore.
Ward was an IoM lover at heart.
No what the Eldar codex got was the stick of Kelly
AFAIK Ward disliked the Elves but Kelly really likes them.. And guess who did the last eldar codex and who has not been left GW?
Yeah..
Fluffwise I guess I really dislike the whole concept of "You can't really beat the Tyranids" mainly because to me Chaos has that under its belt and whilst Necrons convey that vibe, to me they will never achieve their goal because they have only just woken up and by then its too late imo. Apart from those, nothing else really bugs me apart from "Mortarians Heart" but that doesn't exist... right?
I thought it was pretty well known that as far as 40k goes, Necrons are Ward's favorite faction. Also, Ward LOVES elves. I mean, at least in Fantasy. I've heard that he was the one who came up with "Battle Focus" as a rule, so he clearly was gunning for Eldar a little bit.
Ward left a long time ago (and my honest stab in the dark here) mainly because I assume it was the bashing he received and still revives to this day is also why codex writers names do not show up on the codex's anymore.
Ward was an IoM lover at heart.
No what the Eldar codex got was the stick of Kelly
AFAIK Ward disliked the Elves but Kelly really likes them.. And guess who did the last eldar codex and who has not been left GW?
Yeah..
Matt Ward constructed a series of mysterious obsidian towers in and around nottingham with the intention of seperating all 'haters' from his work and life.
Phil Kelly exposed the towers to the warp and when activated they instead seperated Matt Ward's work and life from GW
All that remained was a necron codex, a grey knight codex, the tatters of a WhFB rulebook and a mythical +1 cudgel - The Stick of Warding.
Tis' an ancient weapon with the power to rend a race's fluff asunder and shall be the doom of all things material. It's form is made of pure warp energy and distorts reality around it - gems upon its pommel contain daemons of marketing, whispering to the wielder and drives them to acts of depraved madness; no plotline can stand against it's power and physics bend to it's weilders will.
"Now i am become time, the destroyer of worlds" - First weilder of the stick of warding
Everyone complains about my Tau Gunline until I bust out the XV 8 spam with Farsight.
So you showed everyone that Tau are not a boring because instead of deploying a huge line of shooting that points and clicks at any unit it wants gone, you deepstruck a huge blob of shooting that points and clicks at any unit it wants gone?
Man, you really showed them! Now everyone surely sees how Tau are such a complex army where everything is possible!
Very complex. Many ways to shoot person. From far distance. From close distance. From above. From below. Much study to the theory of shooting.
those guys, just the amount of core rules they just basically ignore with way too many good options alongside impossibly good internal balance requires them to have no tactical thought at all aside for target priority.. 
