Let's say through some miraculous mixup or strange turn of fortunes, you are suddenly given full control of the Imperium of Man.
What would be the first thing you would do?
Organize a massive Crusade into the Tau Empire. I don't care if it dooms the Imperium. If the Imperium is going to die we are taking a xenos race with us and the Tau are the easiest target to stamp out.
Bring reform to the Administratum, the Imperial Navy, the Imperial Guard, dismantle the Inquisition and bring all its personnel under the responsibility of the Officio Assassinorum. Bring reform to the Officio Assassinorum, and turn it into an general Intelligence branch of the Imperium. Increase Space Marine chapters, begin a 27th Founding. Increase Deathwatch chapter to legion strength, 10,000 strong. Start a propaganda campaign to increase colonization. Especially to worlds in between trade hubs. Initiate research project to find more efficient ways of terraforming, I imagine this will require bringing in knowledge from the Ordo Xenos and the Martian priesthood. Increase propaganda campaign for the celebration of the Emperor and his Primarchs. Remove Ministorum leaders from seats of power. Reverse positions of authority for the Adepta Sororitas, bringing the Ministorum under the watchful eye of the students it graduates. Remove their ships, and make sure the Sororitas work in close tandem with the Navy and Guard. Bring reform to the Arbites, make sure they conform to standard equipment. Lower tithes on planets across the board, but bring the taxes up to standard. No uneven tithes on planets of the same grade. Increase production demands on the Mechanicus and Forge Worlds. Bring reforms to education across the Imperium. Increase ship production. Demand increase in workers. Demand increase in Navigator population. Fix the Golden Throne.
Well to be honest I would first eliminate all of the non loyal organizations/regiments to me. I would make everyone become the same religion as me. I would remove anyone who got political or social power who I did not approve of. I would start a royal guard. Bolster my military ranks with those loyal to me. Make a military personal higher in status than standard citizens. I would of course focus a large amount of resources to education and jobs on other planets. Bolster my military tech budget. I want the imperial navy and guard to be one in the same again. I assume I would need to remove space marines depends. I would of course have to keep the emperor alive. I would also need to make peace with alien species mainly tau, and some eldar, maybe even over throw the tau with the farsights and make them a puppet government. I would than focus on mastering eldar tech. Kill all phychers no matter what they all must die magic can not be trusted. Higher a vast and very large planetary secret police. There is more but this is all I will put. I would need to get rid of all those undeserving and of course found a new capital on a different planet. Their are to many people an terra and they can't all be trusted. I also need public executions just to make sure that the traitors know their place. I very violent death like tying them to a wheel and beating it. I would also need people regulating the secret police of course, and people regulating them. My Royal guard also need to be big enough and more technologically advanced to take on a large rebellion from my forces. I would also rename it to something more friendly and throw in some puppet leaders like for example I will say we are a republic, but I get a larger vote that can pass everyones although I will let them vote on most politics staying away from them of course, maybe. My new capital needs to be an almost barren hazardous planet where no one will look for me with my royal guard set up to kill anyone who comes close. When I die I will have already selected a list of people with no desire for change so that my rule pretty much all stays the same, and gets some acts to make a full transition to a full fledged republic for when I die. puting an act in place which disbandeds my royal guards and makes the guards to the senators. MY MAIN RULE WILL BE ON A VERY SERIOUS NOTE EVERYONE MUST BRUSH THEIR TEETH NO ACCEPTATIONS AT ALL THEY MUST BE BURNED ALIVE OR SOME TERRIBLE FATE PRISON FOR LIFE OR SOMETHING TO BE DECIDED BUT LONG AND PAINFUL.
I'd stop pouring resources into Space Marines, a hugely wasteful and rather unproductive use of valuable resources that could be more efficiently used elsewhere. I'd expand other branches such as the Sisters, the Imperial Guard and of course the Navy. I'd also ditch the xenophobia angle and try to get some kind of cooperation going with other civil races such as Tau and Eldar. I'd also legalise gay marriage and marijuana.
The Imperium is like a great ship or plane on autopilot. The institutions of the Imperium have their mandates and most actively try to resist change and restore the status quo even without direct command from above. The decentralized nature of the Imperium and its myriad instituations along with their web of feudal obligations and infighting and politicking means the Imperium isn't a true nation state as understood by modern 20th century people. All the singular individuals with the power and force of personality to impose galactic scale changes (such as the Emperor or the Primarchs) are long gone, and the Imperium was restructured after the Heresy to deliberately prevent individuals from having such power in order to reduce the risk of rebellion. The down side of this is of course they also lack the power to enact beneficial sweeping reforms or take major decisions that actually alter the status quo.
The High Lords reign...they don't rule. Although they may issue sweeping decrees, like increasing mobilization to fight the Tyranids as depicted in the Tyranid Codex, these come off more as general ideological mission statements rather than concrete policy. The actual enforcement of these decrees can also be highly variable as these directives can be distorted, minimized, or perhaps even outright ignored as they propagate down the Imperium's organizations. There are numerous vested interests within the Imperium, and anyone threatening these interests may also provoke a backlash such as assassination.
The idea that NO ONE at all is truly in charge of the Imperium is an even scarier and more depressing state of affairs than the simple idea of the High Lords as evil corrupt power mongers deliberately twisting the Emperor's ideas: The Imperium as a system given a life of its own, as a blind unthinking beast, in which the uncounted quadrillions of humans in the galaxy are trapped with no hope of escape.
The Administratum is the biggest, most obvious spanner in the works. Ineffective bureaucracy has been the herald, if not the cause, of the fall of countless mighty empires in our own history. I don't know where you'd even begin with such a colossal organization (or how you could make things better rather than worse) but anything else is pointless while the failings of the Administratum persist. Start there, and to be honest it sounds like more than a single life's work to fix it so the entirety of my reign would probably be spent trying to rejuvenate the red tape.
You say 'reform' like it's a four letter word. What specifically are you reforming in the way these institutions how will you implement these reforms? Saying you'd change something without saying how or what you'd change about it is even less useful than the majority of politician 'reform' platforms.
Too bad at this point the Inquisition would try you as a heretic and execute you for abandoning your faith in the Emperor.
Even if they didnt, this reform alone would probably take a century or more. I dont think y'all are understanding how massive the Imperial bureaucracy is, let alone how massive the Imperium itself is.
Step one: kill the High Lords of Terra, step 2: issue a ultimatium to Cult of the Machine God either get your gak together and figure out how golden age technology works or be sweep aside/Stomped on. Step 3: Forbid/Outlaw the creation of new Space Marine Chapters to lessen the chance of them turning to Choas
There's a lot of vague things being thrown here, so I'll try to get into some specifics:
1. Improve Imperial communications and response times. This I feel is crucial, it establishes a means of carrying out other acts and begins to reduce the bloated slowness that is the Imperium. This takes the form of delegating authority on a sub-sector or regional basis to mobilize military assets, in order to reduce lost time in the bureaucratic limbo. Aiding that is spreading resources so that each of these regions (however they are defined) has adequate resources of navy, guard, astartes and any other branch of military so that they are equipped to deal with 99% of threats locally.
The other aspect is to begin research and development of new means of communication. Astropaths and psychic choirs work, but they are fuzzy and slow, as we've seen. While I have no idea what could be found, I'd say the place to start looking is in the psychic technology of the Eldar, presumably they would have some means of galactic communication on a fast, broad scale. We need that in the Imperium.
2. Re-organize the military leadership, from the top down. Now that we have established regions under combined arms control, those combined forces require a point of leadership. I see no one type of background as a perfect fit, so each one will be selected based on their accomplishments and familiarity within the region, as well as their stability as a leader. Chapter Masters and the like can still command their chapters, but that does not necessarily mean that they will be a de facto regional commander. I've got no problems with a guy like Calgar hanging onto Ultramar, but I don't want a hothead like Logan Grimnar in charge of anything more than his ice ball.
At this point, we have a faster-responding, definitively-led group of regions now. Command decisions within that region are entrusted to whoever is selected to be in charge, and their word is as good is only superseded by mine when it comes to regional affairs. Anyone not on board is either shifted to a different region, eliminated, or put into a force devoted to rapid response or attack. With that, the military stability is handled, at least for the moment. We can go on the attack after we've got a better handle on our own stuff.
3. Clean house on the Cult Mechanicus and the Inquisition. While these seem like very different factions, they are riven by the same dangers as before, that of fighting to defend a decaying status quo, rather than for progress. Radicals of both Mechanicus and Inquisition will be granted larger sway and the ability to pursue their more extreme designs on designated planets that will have minimal impact. You want to try making the ultimate deamonhost to crush Chaos? Great, do it on this uninhabited planet and get back to us when you finish. You want to try out a risky STC that may be corrupted? Awesome. You get this old moon to test on. We change the culture to pursue and value innovation and progress over status quo.
THAT SAID, I am not disbanding them or removing the more conservative elements. Those elements are needed to root out corruption from within. The Imperium is a big place and treason can show up anywhere, we need a force of Inquisitors to terrify and root out those elements. So the Inquisition's job and span would be largely unchanged, save for the overall direction of their goals.
As for the Cult Mechanicus, this would also be a housecleaning of leadership. Lots of glory-chasing and internal politics have made it impossible for the Cult to work together as a cohesive unit. Ambition is a good motivating force, but if it gets in the way of the Imperium, the offending parties are going to have very short careers.
#1 Really only works for the Eldar. Craftworlds tend not to speak to each other anyway. The Eldar Farseers foretell the future and base decisions on those visions , but it's a very local club.
#2: Already exists under the Sector Governor. S/He is already the Imperium's representative in the Sector and can command its military assets to defend its borders, quell uprisings, root out pirates, etc. All the stuff you would expect Army/Navy assets to do.
Party like hell using the resources at my disposal. Let's face it, my story wouldn't end happily no matter what I did given how nasty the 40k's version of the Milky Way is, so I may as well have the best night of my life before I'm brutally and summarily killed.
1) I'd stage a competition amongst the Space Marines like once a century. Call it "End-A-Xeno". The Chapter who utterly exterminates the most Xeno cultures wins a prize. Team prizes are an option, too, so some Chapters may decide to work together, or leverage other resources.
2) I would instruct the AdMech to stop with this centralization BS. One Forge World holds the secrets to the best of Technology X? Feth that. Get the schematics, make a bazillion back-ups, and put them in secure repositories across the galaxy. I would also just End the Void Dragon, since it's apparently worthless. Inventive machine-god my arse...
3) I would require a hovering War-Throne. Actually, several different hover-Thrones. There's the War-Throne, the Senate-Throne, the Intimidating-Throne, the Lunch-Throne, etc.
3) I would require a hovering War-Throne. Actually, several different hover-Thrones. There's the War-Throne, the Senate-Throne, the Intimidating-Throne, the Lunch-Throne, etc.
Damn, that's a good idea! See, this is the sort of thing a ruler has to be concerned with.
MarsNZ wrote: I'd stop pouring resources into Space Marines, a hugely wasteful and rather unproductive use of valuable resources that could be more efficiently used elsewhere. I'd expand other branches such as the Sisters, the Imperial Guard and of course the Navy. I'd also ditch the xenophobia angle and try to get some kind of cooperation going with other civil races such as Tau and Eldar. I'd also legalise gay marriage and marijuana.
Considering the size of the entire Adeptus Astartes in relation to the Imperium, the amount of resources they "pour" into them probably doesn't even pass the threshold to make it onto the spreadsheet.
In 40K? Nothing, it's over 10 000 years too late for any fixes at that point, the only sane solution would be to nuke every imperial world and start over, beginning from Australopithecus on some remote world, but there is no time for that with all that gakstorm going on all over the galaxy.
In 30K there would still be some hope. I'd start from kicking the Emperor in the balls for being such a colossal failure (seriously, if Abaddon has no arms then Emperor has no limbs whatsoever), execute primarchs since they were irreversibly tainted by the scattering, and give reins to the Interex since they were the only human civilization that even remotely knew what it was doing.
Iracundus wrote: The Imperium is like a great ship or plane on autopilot. The institutions of the Imperium have their mandates and most actively try to resist change and restore the status quo even without direct command from above. The decentralized nature of the Imperium and its myriad instituations along with their web of feudal obligations and infighting and politicking means the Imperium isn't a true nation state as understood by modern 20th century people. All the singular individuals with the power and force of personality to impose galactic scale changes (such as the Emperor or the Primarchs) are long gone, and the Imperium was restructured after the Heresy to deliberately prevent individuals from having such power in order to reduce the risk of rebellion. The down side of this is of course they also lack the power to enact beneficial sweeping reforms or take major decisions that actually alter the status quo.
The High Lords reign...they don't rule. Although they may issue sweeping decrees, like increasing mobilization to fight the Tyranids as depicted in the Tyranid Codex, these come off more as general ideological mission statements rather than concrete policy. The actual enforcement of these decrees can also be highly variable as these directives can be distorted, minimized, or perhaps even outright ignored as they propagate down the Imperium's organizations. There are numerous vested interests within the Imperium, and anyone threatening these interests may also provoke a backlash such as assassination.
The idea that NO ONE at all is truly in charge of the Imperium is an even scarier and more depressing state of affairs than the simple idea of the High Lords as evil corrupt power mongers deliberately twisting the Emperor's ideas: The Imperium as a system given a life of its own, as a blind unthinking beast, in which the uncounted quadrillions of humans in the galaxy are trapped with no hope of escape.
This is a very good point, and really less about the Imperium specifically but dictatorship in general. Leaders are mortal humans - ideologies transcend individuals' mortality by spreading from person to person, generation to generation. Whoever establishes a dictatorship must acknowledge their mortality yet envision the future, and so set in place the institutional propagation and maintenance of their ideology to outlive themselves. Any successors after that are merely avatars of the ideology, subject to the aforementioned institutions and replaceable if they're not up to the job.
Humble Guardsman wrote: You say 'reform' like it's a four letter word. What specifically are you reforming in the way these institutions how will you implement these reforms? Saying you'd change something without saying how or what you'd change about it is even less useful than the majority of politician 'reform' platforms.
See how many words I've already put into my post? yea, what do you want? do you want me to write a book for you? I have ideas....and reform is the general word i chose to use. Deal with it.
I'd clone the primarchs I have DNA for and who are confirmed dead (so Sanguinus, Dorn, and Ferrus Manus, I believe?) And actually raise them, like a father, and have them grow up together as brothers. Put them under control of 3 new legions raised in the 27th founding. Then treat the worst first, and throw all three at the Tyranids. Build an ashkasic throne and start absorbing knowledge from the universe. Keep a close relationship with the new primarchs and always be careful never to humiliate them. Offer the Lords of Mars 50 new crusade cleared planets for forge world's in return for a universal system of knowledge exchange.
Realistically, nothing could be done other than maintain the status quo.
The 41st millennium isn't an insane place that just needs a sensible person to come along and fix it. Its actually the best possible outcome given the variables at play.
Grey Templar wrote: Realistically, nothing could be done other than maintain the status quo.
The 41st millennium isn't an insane place that just needs a sensible person to come along and fix it. Its actually the best possible outcome given the variables at play.
Madness. Much could be done to address the lack of hover-thrones.
Grey Templar wrote: Realistically, nothing could be done other than maintain the status quo.
The 41st millennium isn't an insane place that just needs a sensible person to come along and fix it. Its actually the best possible outcome given the variables at play.
Madness. Much could be done to address the lack of hover-thrones.
I don't know. The Space Wolves have that pretty well covered
I'd gather as much geneseed as possible, forgo the normal extrenuous process of creating space Marines and build a massive "super legion" and have them go reconquer the Imperiums territory.
Forget 1,000,000 Marines. More like 45,000,000,000,000
Ideally, abolish the Ecclesiarchy and Cult Mechanicus, make scientific advancement a major priority, and make non-aggression pacts and military alliances with certain well-intentioned Xenos races, especially the Eldar.
In practice, both the Ecclesiarchy and Cult Mechanicus are off limits. Both have so much power, any attempt to eliminate them would result in a civil war, and the lack of belief would bolster Chaos by weakening the Emperor and leaving people open to other faiths, such as with Lorgar. As a result, scientific advancement cannot occur while the Cult Mechanicus exists, and pacts with Xenos cannot occur while the Imperial Creed dictates people should abhor them.
So, pragmatically, if I had the time, I would seek to engineer a new religion that slowly merged both dominant religions, and sought to eliminate the damaging elements of them. Religion is a necessary bulwark against Chaos and a force of unity for Humanity in the 40k universe, so creating a progressive religion that had a Tau-like philosophy that was open to aliens and technology would be the way to go
I'd go about this with the help of the Inquisition and the Officio Assassinorum, by bribing, blackmailing, intimidating and even assassinating the upper echelons of both religions, and installing my own pawns in key positions. The hope would be that after a couple of generations you have something along the lines of the Christian reformation, that had a major contribution to the success of the European rennaissance, with the hope reviving the Imperium in a similar way.
This is a change however that would take centuries. Possibly even a millennium, and there's likely not enough time.
Also - lots of psychopaths in this thread that I'm glad will never hold any real power in the actual world!
Unit1126PLL wrote: A lot of these ideas strike me as efforts to cause another Horus Heresy.
This isn't a historical reenactor's website is it?
We aren't debating about how many rivets should be on a Astartes Mk. 7's Model 38 power pack's right nozzle so this is probably not a reenactor's site.
I'd open a dialog with the Ethereals to negotiate some sort of long-term cultural exchange and peace treaty. They need to understand the true dangers of Chaos, and my Imperial Guard needs pulse rifles and hover-tanks to replace the worthless gak they currently use.
I'd send an army to Hito to reclaim the STC there. With the above technological advances, it'd be time to prepare a surprise for Abaddon's upcoming 13th Black Crusade- I'd have enough ships waiting to kill the fether once and for all.
EmpNortonII wrote: I'd open a dialog with the Ethereals to negotiate some sort of long-term cultural exchange and peace treaty. They need to understand the true dangers of Chaos, and my Imperial Guard needs pulse rifles and hover-tanks to replace the worthless gak they currently use.
I'd send an army to Hito to reclaim the STC there. With the above technological advances, it'd be time to prepare a surprise for Abaddon's upcoming 13th Black Crusade- I'd have enough ships waiting to kill the fether once and for all.
Yea, but the Imperium is xenophobic, small steps first bro. Else you'd be disposed of. Arch-highlord or not. Which is why I proposed reform and restructuring, to remove power bases and attain loyalty for myself, or at least realign loyalties to my interests. So my plan is better Its superior.
EmpNortonII wrote: I'd open a dialog with the Ethereals to negotiate some sort of long-term cultural exchange and peace treaty. They need to understand the true dangers of Chaos, and my Imperial Guard needs pulse rifles and hover-tanks to replace the worthless gak they currently use.
I'd send an army to Hito to reclaim the STC there. With the above technological advances, it'd be time to prepare a surprise for Abaddon's upcoming 13th Black Crusade- I'd have enough ships waiting to kill the fether once and for all.
Yea, but the Imperium is xenophobic, small steps first bro. Else you'd be disposed of. Arch-highlord or not. Which is why I proposed reform and restructuring, to remove power bases and attain loyalty for myself, or at least realign loyalties to my interests. So my plan is better Its superior.
I'm sure I can find at least one world in the millions the Imperium has that isn't xenophobic. Trust me on this, I have a plan.
The only way to flatten the 13th Black Crusade is with weapons that didn't exist in the Imperium when Abaddon sacked Cadia before the retcon. A few million pulse rifles, a few hundred hovertanks... all of a sudden, we're holding Cadia until the Navy establishes space superiority, and then I have that fether trapped on Cadia, and I can kill him. No more Abaddon=no more unified Chaos. I win Warhammer 40k.
I will also get the Carcharodons in on throwing back the 13th Crusade right from the get-go. I'll just have to make sure they know to not blow up Cadia.
I don't know, there was that one inquisitor, Quixros? Maybe? Who was replicating the cadian pylons. Mass produce that technology and ithe good game against chaos. Totally sealing the maelstrom and eye of terror would severely limit their influence in the material universe.
MarsNZ wrote: I'd stop pouring resources into Space Marines, a hugely wasteful and rather unproductive use of valuable resources that could be more efficiently used elsewhere. I'd expand other branches such as the Sisters, the Imperial Guard and of course the Navy. I'd also ditch the xenophobia angle and try to get some kind of cooperation going with other civil races such as Tau and Eldar. I'd also legalise gay marriage and marijuana.
You do realize that Space Marines are 90% self-sufficient, don't you?They have Techmarines, who are usually known to forge weapons and armour, as well as Bolt Shells. They get things like Rhinos and Space Craft from the AdMech, but, if the Blood Angels are anything to go by, they're more than capable of constructing their own tanks and vehicles.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well, in the virtually impossible event that I were to, somehow, gain more power than even Goge Vandire had, I would, of course, reform the religions within the Imperium of Man. This would done over a period of centuries, perhaps even millenia. Of course, I would also need to be an Alpha-plus Psyker with Emperor-level control of his powers, but still.
First of all, I would attempt to reduce the xenophobia within the Ecclesiarchy and Inquisition. I would do so by acquiring as many powerful Pskers as I could, and then using them to psychically implant the same dreams into the upper echelons of the Ecclesiarchy. The first one would be one of Sanguinius walking up to said powerful Ecclesiarch, flanked by Eldar, and saying ," the time has come. Embrace the Emperor's true vision of glory. We need the Xenos, for this is the will of the Emperor". The second one would be of a great battle between Chaos and a combined force of Astartes and dozens of lesser Xeno species, while Ferrus Manus raises his mace up into the air, and screams "FOR THE EMPEROR!!!", and everyone, even the Xenos, take up the warcry. The third would be of a bunch of Jokaero working on the Golden Throne, and then, miraculously, the Emperor turns his gaze upon the dreamer, and booms his voice into their minds,"This is the way and the future. The xenos can be used, and use them you must." There would be dozens, and, eventually, hundreds of these kinds of dreams being implanted into all kinds of members of the Ecclesiarchy and Inquisition. As the years wore on, this would lead to eventual softening of the "purge the Xenos" mentality. Eventually, we would conquer, not exterminate, the lesser Xenos, use their technology, and become all the mightier for it.
The reformation of the Cult Mechanicus would be brought about in a similar manner. One dream could be of the Emperor designing a new class of Titan, as his voice booms into the mind of the dreamer,"This is the way and the future. Progression, or-" the dream turns into a vision of Mars covered in ruins and dead Tech-Priests,"- destruction." Another one would be a Primarch using Xenos tech and saying something deep and meaningful about Xeno tech, etc. etc.
The next big change would be to bring about Imperial Legions, once more. I would modify the Codex Astartes, so that each Chapter becomes a Legion of 20k, with more ships, more tanks, and subservient Guard Auxiliaries (max. 2 regiments to a Legion). This way, the Legions would be actually capable of conquering a planet, instead relying wholly upon Surgical Strikes (this way, the in-fluff idiocy of using Astartes as linemen would be 1% less retahded).
Oh, yeah, I'd also increase the size of each Regiment to 50k-100k bodies to drown my foes in. I'd also make them a part of a Division, with each of the 10 constituent Regiments working together, in the same Sector(s).
As I'm sure you gathered from my initial reformations, I would also begin making alliances, trade treaties, and mutual defense pacts with all manner of lesser (and greater) Xeno empires. If at all possible, I would also replicate the Necron Pylons found on Cadia, in order to shut off the major Warp Storms.
If, by some miracle, I actually succeeded in doing all of this without getting assassinated, I would also create a Republican standard on Civilized Worlds. Any worlds with, say, greater than 100 Mil. people on it would be required to vote for a Senate and an Executive Representative (President, Prime Minister, or other equivalent) to govern them. These Representatives would then be capable of being voted into Sub-Sector, Sector, and Segmentum-level representation. It would, by no means, be a perfect system of government, but it would improve standards of living by sheer virtue of Governors wanting their constituents to remain their constituents.
Because I have meta knowledge, I raid the Adpetus Mechanicus world that has a functioning STC on with the might of multiple Space Marine Chapters. While the STC goes about building the Imperium a new fleet of Capital Ships to begin a second Great Crusade against the Orks, Tyranids, and Chaos, I'd conscript many Custodes to become my personal bodyguards, and if not them, some Grey Knight Paladins. Then I'd go about trying to standardize gak and simply creating paths of reliable communication between Adepts.
Disband some of the Assassin Cults for heresy, and reform the others to become something akin to a SINGLE organization like the CIA or Mossad, specializing in both intelligence gathering and assassination. Information will be shared with every single branch of the Imperium as soon as they can be reached, a military cannot function if some parties are in the dark.
Tell the mechanicus to shove it and hand over their over secrets or meet the firepower of my exponentially increasing fleet. Mandate the creation of more Skitarii and their usage as an offensive military force, start augmentation programs that may even turn Guardsmen into proto-space marines with enough bionics slapped on. Spread critical blueprints across the Imperium to ensure they can't be fragged by invading Xenos.
Finally, use cloning to mass produce Space Marines. Don't settle until the Imperium has at least a billion new Astartes, perhaps even more. Use the same training and indoctrination as the Dark Angels- using hypnotherapy to program them so you can even verbally command them with the right codes and control their minds. Staff the new swarm of Chapters on the continually expanding fleet with new armies of Skitarii and Guardsmen, and set sail in every direction.
Filch wrote: Invest in developing better gear for Guardsmen.
Invest in sentinel tech. Make sentinel faster and have stonger front armor and give better guns.
Make Sentinel Platoons an army choice.
Make a Voltron Sentinel where 5 sentinels can combine to make 1 Super Heavy. Possibly a bit smaller than 1 Imperial Knight.
Make more vehicles modular so they can combine to make 1 big vehicle.
Can we do transformers next?
Looking back. Sentinels are too small and cost so little to be considered super heavy vehicle tru combing. 5 Armored Sentinels cobbled together would be the size of a Dread Knight and cost just as much with 200pts base with 5 multi lasers. You can then upgrade other guns accordingly.
I was thinking
a SHV with 8 guns which come from 10 sentinels. 16 HP from 8 Sentinels while the other 2 are foots.
j am Thinking what if one sentinel forms the left Torso and one Sentinel forms the right torso. 2 guns inbetween them to form a core for a co-axel turret. 40x2 form armoured Sentinel chasis Making the body 80pts.
Next are the arms. The Upper Shoulder formed by 1 Armored Sentinel and the lower hand is formed by 1 more sentinel. There would be 2 guns. 1 attached to the upper shoulder and one more on the Hand (make this hand sentinel with 4 legs so it looks like a hand) Again 40x2 for 2 Armored Sentinels with 2 MultiLasers.
Same thing for the other arm. 80pts
Next are the Legs. 2 Armored Sentinels. However only the upper leg gets a gun. The lower sentinel replaces the gun slot for jet boosters. 80pts for multi laser configuration.
So you get this
ws3 bs3 s5 FV12 sv10 rv10 i3 a3 hp16 SHV Jumper Base Cost 400pts (edit: decided on 320pts instead)
2 Torso Guns
2 Shoulder Guns
2 Fore Arm Guns or Close Combat Weapons.
2 hip guns
Each Foot sentinel has rocket boosters for jumping.
Optional 9th gun is carapace mounted.
Special rules:
invincible behemoth
move thru cover
smash (3 hits at S5 ap2? or single S10 ap2 hit)
Relentless
Hammer of Wrath
strike down (abuse here!)
Independent Firing
Combined Arms: Treat multiple gun shooting into 1 phase like 3 plasma cannons stacking 3 templates into one unit.
Instead of 1 massive gun like an IK. You get 8 regular heavy or special Guns. So you can have any combo of Autocannons, heavy bolters, missiles launchers, lascannons, heavy flamers, plasma cannons. Book keeping can be complicated or simple. All guns are independent firing. It has s5 in cc but perhaps an upgrade option of a Dreadnaught Close Combat weapons can purchased to double the str to 10. Sorry no Str D in cc. It still gets stomp attacks at str d though.
Because it is a SHV Walker, It gets Invincible Behemoth. It ignores crew shaken, stunned, weapon destroyed, immobilized. Can not be exploded but when a 7 on the damage table occurs it would lose d3 hp. The 16 hp it gets will help balance out the weak fv12 and side and rear av10. It gets no Ion Shield. It can get camo netting which confers 6+ cover.
I feel like this would be a great anthesis to the IK.
The whole idea was to get Guardsmen into more Sentinels and wage war inside of those. Once nearly all guards men have an abundance of Armored Sentinels then those Sentinels can be upgraded to combine into a SHV like a megazord or voltron.
Stock at 320pts it would have 8 multi laser out 24 s6 ap 6 shots.
...It still underperforms compared to 6 Scat bikes at 162pts...and can be glanced by said scat bikes...
However, spending 5pts per missile launcer you can get 8 Missile Launchers and fire 8 Krak Missiles for 40 pts more in total. Now that is comparable to the Castigators gun.
Spending 5 pts per ac then you get 8 ac and 16 shots of s7 ap4 to possibly kill flyers.
Spending 10pts per plasma cannons would get you 8 small blast templates and even if you get hot, you get a 4+ and you have plenty hp.
Or 8 lascannons
Special Upgrade : Gun Kata Protocols : 20pts allows the Mega Sentinel to replace its base attack 3 with any non blast or template or ordance shooting attacks as if there were in close combat point blank shots.
We can also have a risky Mega Scout Sentinel with av10 all around for 40pts less putting it at 280pts yet carrying 8 guns.
I for one find it disturbing how many people want to outright destroy the Inquisition, remove the Cult Mechanicus, and do X to the Imperial Creed. In the grim darkness of the far future, what keeps Humanity alive is not Spess Mehreens, nor heroic guardsmen, but fanaticism.
Take, for example, the Inquisitor. His job is to root out heresy, to protect people from knowledge of the greatest threat to intelligent life ever. without his efforts, and others like him, there would be no Imperium. It is the same for the Ecchlesiarchy and the Machine Cultists.
Ruling the Imperium in a traditional sense is nigh-on-impossible. even the big E couldn't do that.
If you gained power even over the high lords, then pimp out your chair, get the bitchen-est armour, and prepare for the most depressing time of your life.
Xafilah wrote: I for one find it disturbing how many people want to outright destroy the Inquisition, remove the Cult Mechanicus, and do X to the Imperial Creed. In the grim darkness of the far future, what keeps Humanity alive is not Spess Mehreens, nor heroic guardsmen, but fanaticism.
Agreed. But modifications to make an imperfect system slightly more perfect wouldn't hurt.
Psienesis wrote: ... and after 25,000 years of research into building that monstrosity, you learn it's still taken out by a single infantryman with a melta-bomb.
Also, this is the fluff forum, points values and the like do not exist as in-universe concepts.
Invincible Behemoth special rule causes any explosion results to instead cause d3 hp losses. A Mega Sentinel with 16 hp would need about 6 melta bomb explosions.
The main idea was to just get every guardsmen into a sentinel. Make sentinels abundant and so numerous that sentinels be the go to army force instead of marines.
The main idea was to just get every guardsmen into a sentinel. Make sentinels abundant and so numerous that sentinels be the go to army force instead of marines.
When have Marines ever been the go-to army force? That's the oceans of Guardsmen that you're thinking of.
What j meant was that Marines are the Rapid Response team. It would be great if a majority of Guardsmen on site can jump into a sentinel and fight like a space marine. The sentinel seems to be a cheap and easy to maintain walker with unsophisticated controls and systems. These walkers are all terrain, can hop, etc. Maybe it cant climb stairs like the big walker in Robocop, but I am sure it can find another way by adding rocket boosters or make better hydraulics to allow high and long jumps.
Unlike complicated gene manipulation to create a Space Marine, a guardsmen can hop into the seat of a sentinel and deliver heavy weapons unlike a 2 man heavy weapons team. If they can upgrade the legs to walk faster then they can nearly keep up with bikes. Something like the 3+ movement like the dune crawlers.
Unlike sophisticated and painful mechanicum augmentation, the Guardsmen can get a tighter Sentinel to be like a mobile suite with advance sensor arrays and non surgery robotic limbs. No painful surgery needed. He just needs a hand on the joystick and the other on the console with one foot on a gas pedal and brakes so he can operate this small light weight agile chicken walker.
The sentinel can kick at str5, much stronger than a guardsmen, has 2 hp, can carry a marine gun. Can be glanced by str4 guns but immune to str3. Compared to 3 marines with weak bolters or 8 guardsmen with flashlights the stock multi laser is stronger and will never run from combat and will always be stuck in.
Perhaps they can create a special Power Foot to kill tough enemies Or create a special close combat limb to add more attacks. Some thing simple like the spike arm in battle bots. Get some ap3 weaponry would be great.
The sentinel chasis has a great potential to change how guardsmen wage war.
What if there was a sentinel variation that traded 1hp for front and side av11? Now you can have a platoon. Have one become a sergeant to challenge out the enemy power fist or meltabomb and win. Marines with str4 would never be able to hurt a av11 walker jn combat.
Just to point out again, we're strictly talking fluff here, so please stop using the values of game rules to justify anything, because it simply doesn't hold up to what the things we're talking about are supposed to be capable of.
Psienesis wrote: ... and after 25,000 years of research into building that monstrosity, you learn it's still taken out by a single infantryman with a melta-bomb.
Also, this is the fluff forum, points values and the like do not exist as in-universe concepts.
Invincible Behemoth special rule causes any explosion results to instead cause d3 hp losses. A Mega Sentinel with 16 hp would need about 6 melta bomb explosions.
The main idea was to just get every guardsmen into a sentinel. Make sentinels abundant and so numerous that sentinels be the go to army force instead of marines.
The "A Melta-Bomb Turns BaneBlades into Puddles of Slag" (AMBTBBiPoS) rule, as defined in the fluff for Baneblades and melta-bombs, and 40k in general, states that a weapon is only as destructive as its Cool Factor. If a Melta-bomb is used against the wall of some nameless building to attack some faceless mooks inside it, then it just blows a hole in the wall, maybe.
If the melta-bomb is carried by a Named Character on foot, without the benefit of heavy support and is charging a vehicle manned by his/her Nemesis? That melta-bomb will cause the deaths of worlds, *especially* if Our Hero is injured and/or dies in the resulting explosion.
'He who defends everything, defends nothing'
The Imperium tries to defend everything and that will eventually kill it. That must be remedied imo.
Therefore I would:
1. Increase the tithes of the outer 2/3rds of the Imperium by a significant margin (to a barely sustainable level) and then devote all of those resources and men to reinforcing, fortifying and defending the inner 1/3rd of the Imperium.
2. Recall all military forces from the outer 2/3rds of the Imperium, Guard, Space Marines, Sisters etc. (leaving behind skeleton PDF forces to slow down xenos/chaos and act as police in effect). These forces will then be reassigned to defending the inner 1/3rd.
3. I would not defend or respond to invasions in the outer 2/3rds of the Imperium but will use the Imperial Navy and Officio Assasinorum to enforce tithe demands (if systems try rebelling).
4. I would plant exterminatus level weaponry on as many planets as I can in the outer 2/3rds of the Imperium. If a planet is lost to the enemy, it would be detonated and they would not reap the rewards of their conquest.
5. I would arm every man, woman and child (from a trainable age) within the core 1/3rd of the Imperium so that even if an enemy managed to breach the enhanced fortifications of the core, the populace can assist in defence and sell their lives as dearly as possible.
6. I would create and dispatch ark ships to other galaxies (the nearest galaxy is 2.5 million ly away which is 25x the diamater of our galaxy which fluff-wise can be crossed in about 3 years so the nearest galaxy is only 75 years away by warp). Thus attempting to ensure the survival of the human species just in case.
Hopefully that would be a good start for ensuring the future of the Imperium and especially the human species.
TLDR - Sacrifice the outer 2/3rds of the Imperium to ensure the survival of the inner 1/3rd.
I would try to get the mechanicus to work together to build a better communications system. Tell the assassinorum "hey, you know the tau? i don't want them to have leaders." seriously, assassin battalions. then, take a huge ass fleet, tons of sororitas and grey knights, black templars to boot, and five fething crusades worth of guardsmen, and bombard chaos planets near the eye. if possible, assault the eye itself, just to at least throw them off. weaken the ecclessiarchy. launch lots of exterminatus at tyranid and ork held planets. try to bolster the inquisition.
Otto Weston wrote: 'He who defends everything, defends nothing'
The Imperium tries to defend everything and that will eventually kill it. That must be remedied imo.
Therefore I would:
1. Increase the tithes of the outer 2/3rds of the Imperium by a significant margin (to a barely sustainable level) and then devote all of those resources and men to reinforcing, fortifying and defending the inner 1/3rd of the Imperium.
2. Recall all military forces from the outer 2/3rds of the Imperium, Guard, Space Marines, Sisters etc. (leaving behind skeleton PDF forces to slow down xenos/chaos and act as police in effect). These forces will then be reassigned to defending the inner 1/3rd.
3. I would not defend or respond to invasions in the outer 2/3rds of the Imperium but will use the Imperial Navy and Officio Assasinorum to enforce tithe demands (if systems try rebelling).
4. I would plant exterminatus level weaponry on as many planets as I can in the outer 2/3rds of the Imperium. If a planet is lost to the enemy, it would be detonated and they would not reap the rewards of their conquest.
5. I would arm every man, woman and child (from a trainable age) within the core 1/3rd of the Imperium so that even if an enemy managed to breach the enhanced fortifications of the core, the populace can assist in defence and sell their lives as dearly as possible.
6. I would create and dispatch ark ships to other galaxies (the nearest galaxy is 2.5 million ly away which is 25x the diamater of our galaxy which fluff-wise can be crossed in about 3 years so the nearest galaxy is only 75 years away by warp). Thus attempting to ensure the survival of the human species just in case.
Hopefully that would be a good start for ensuring the future of the Imperium and especially the human species.
TLDR - Sacrifice the outer 2/3rds of the Imperium to ensure the survival of the inner 1/3rd.
You do realize that half of the Segmentum Ultima (the important half) is within the "outer 2/3rds" of the Imperium, yes?
The Imperium exists as a series of islands (where each island is a human-occupied star system) in a vast sea of darkness, linked only by stable Warp Routes that connect each system to its neighbors. In the spaces between an Imperial System and its next "closest" neighbor might exist a hundred stars belonging to a Xeno empire the Imperium has never encountered, simply because the known Warp Routes don't go there. It's not contiguous human-held worlds and space-fortresses from Terra all the way to the galaxy's edge, it's just simple "X marks the spot" points on a black field labeled "Astra Incognita" and "Here, there be dragons".
Otto Weston wrote: '
TLDR - Sacrifice the outer 2/3rds of the Imperium to ensure the survival of the inner 1/3rd.
The Imperium doesn't work that way. It's not a nation with defined borders, but an archipelago that has numerous hostile forces within its own borders. Tyranids attack from above the galactic plane, Craftworlds drift through Imperial space, Dark Eldar attack from anywhere, Ork planets are everywhere, as is the likeliehood that Tomb Worlds are.
Also, how would you stop rebellion? Assassinations? Really? Do you know how large 2/3rds of the Imperium is? 666,000 worlds, conservatively. Including trillions of citizens and billions of soldiers. These include Forge Worlds and Hive Worlds that contribute vast amounts to the economic health of the Imperium at large. You wouldn't just lose 2/3rds of your production, but 2/3rds of your forces.
Even if your plan worked, your enemies would simply take these worlds and strengthen themselves. Imagine 2/3rds of the Imperium turning to Chaos for salvation due to abandonment from the Imperium. I'm sure the Tau would also step up protection for nearby worlds and take them in. If you don't have the forces to defend those worlds, you certainly don't have the forces to put down rebellions.
Totally unworkable and flawed plan, that would essentially lead to the suicide of the Human race.
Chaos is like the mafia. Kill a leader, and another rises up to take their place, as there's thousands just waiting to do so. He isn't the Emperor, or even Horus. There's nothing about him that would cause a collapse in the morale or structure of the Chaos Space Marines.
One theory is also that he's beneficial as the leader of the CSMs as he's arguably incompetent at fighting the Imperium, with his only real skill being somehow clinging onto his position. Kill him, and you risk replacing him with someone worse.
Chaos is like the mafia. Kill a leader, and another rises up to take their place, as there's thousands just waiting to do so. He isn't the Emperor, or even Horus. There's nothing about him that would cause a collapse in the morale or structure of the Chaos Space Marines.
One theory is also that he's beneficial as the leader of the CSMs as he's arguably incompetent at fighting the Imperium, with his only real skill being somehow clinging onto his position. Kill him, and you risk replacing him with someone worse.
That theory is contradicted by the actual background so it should probably be disregarded. Chaos is in a way largely meritocratic (save for the occasional spawndom); if Abaddon was incompetent he would have been killed either through treachery or open battle (with either other traitors, Loyalists (or even xenos)).
Chaos is like the mafia. Kill a leader, and another rises up to take their place, as there's thousands just waiting to do so. He isn't the Emperor, or even Horus. There's nothing about him that would cause a collapse in the morale or structure of the Chaos Space Marines.
One theory is also that he's beneficial as the leader of the CSMs as he's arguably incompetent at fighting the Imperium, with his only real skill being somehow clinging onto his position. Kill him, and you risk replacing him with someone worse.
That theory is contradicted by the actual background so it should probably be disregarded. Chaos is in a way largely meritocratic (save for the occasional spawndom); if Abaddon was incompetent he would have been killed either through treachery or open battle (with either other traitors, Loyalists (or even xenos)).
Plus, didn't each Black Crusade have a specific goal in mind; like, none of them was actually meant to completely destroy the Imperium until the 13th?
Chaos certainly is not a meritocracy. It's actually a system ruled by patronage. If the Gods don't favour you, or provide you with boons, then you're nothing.
You could argue that the Gods reward merit, but bear in mind if Abaddon's function (knowingly, or not) is likely to keep the Imperium harried without ever actually causing it to collapse. If so, then he's doing a great job. He has merit in his lack of ability to seal the deal. And it isn't as if the Gods are not known for their plots, or using people for their own ends.
The fluff has stated many times that it is not in the interest of Chaos to see the Imperium, and therefore Humanity, collapse, as it's the source of most of its power. The aims of CSMs differ, but they're just pawns. Abaddon is just a pawn. What he wants doesn't matter. What he does (or doesn't do) is what's important to the Gods.
And a 10,000 year plan is a pretty crap plan. There's nothing in it at all that justifies the length, though that could of course simply be down to bad writing. Even then, it doesn't remove the central point, which is that removing Abaddon would simply open the position to someone else. Abaddon, without his gifts, is not anyone special. Hell, even the fluff portrays him as petty and insecure, and he regularly gets disrespected by all manner of other warband leaders and Traitor Primarchs.
Put a ton of resources into killing him, and Honsou, or someone else, gets a promotion and all his Chaos gifts. Nothing has really changed. Nobody really cares about Abaddon (does anyone in Chaos care about anyone else?), and his death would simply cause a series of promotions, nothing more. No morale collapse, nothing.
EmpNortonII wrote: I'd open a dialog with the Ethereals to negotiate some sort of long-term cultural exchange and peace treaty. They need to understand the true dangers of Chaos, and my Imperial Guard needs pulse rifles and hover-tanks to replace the worthless gak they currently use.
To be honest we all know what happened the last time the Tau accepted the offer of cultural exchange....
Plus, didn't each Black Crusade have a specific goal in mind; like, none of them was actually meant to completely destroy the Imperium until the 13th?
Correct.
Hierophant wrote:Chaos certainly is not a meritocracy. It's actually a system ruled by patronage. If the Gods don't favour you, or provide you with boons, then you're nothing.
You could argue that the Gods reward merit, but bear in mind if Abaddon's function (knowingly, or not) is likely to keep the Imperium harried without ever actually causing it to collapse. If so, then he's doing a great job. He has merit in his lack of ability to seal the deal. And it isn't as if the Gods are not known for their plots, or using people for their own ends.
The fluff has stated many times that it is not in the interest of Chaos to see the Imperium, and therefore Humanity, collapse, as it's the source of most of its power. The aims of CSMs differ, but they're just pawns. Abaddon is just a pawn. What he wants doesn't matter. What he does (or doesn't do) is what's important to the Gods.
If you are weak or incompetent, either the Chaos Gods punish you or your fellow heretics do.
As far as I know the idea that it is in interest of Chaos to keep the Imperium intact is supposition. I see no reason having a Chaos dominated style Imperium would not be more beneficial for the Ruinous Powers.
And a 10,000 year plan is a pretty crap plan. There's nothing in it at all that justifies the length, though that could of course simply be down to bad writing. Even then, it doesn't remove the central point, which is that removing Abaddon would simply open the position to someone else. Abaddon, without his gifts, is not anyone special. Hell, even the fluff portrays him as petty and insecure, and he regularly gets disrespected by all manner of other warband leaders and Traitor Primarchs.
Put a ton of resources into killing him, and Honsou, or someone else, gets a promotion and all his Chaos gifts. Nothing has really changed. Nobody really cares about Abaddon (does anyone in Chaos care about anyone else?), and his death would simply cause a series of promotions, nothing more. No morale collapse, nothing.
The fact that the Imperium is superior militarily and is more unified than the forces of Chaos along with there being no way to "blitzkrieg" the Imperium means that a conventional offensive would be annihilated. Not to mention the fact that the Eldar have a tendency to fight Chaos forces as well. Abaddon is the guy who unified the splintered remnants of the traitor Legions, gains the allegiance various Dark Mechanicums and coerces or persuades demons and other forces into helping him. The scale of his operations, and the fact that he turned the Sons of Horus from a crippled Legion into the most powerful Legion as the Black Legion, demonstrate aptitude for his position. If I recall correctly all the Chaos Primarchs bent the knee to Abaddon. He is more influential than they are.
Considering killing him would be a side effect of defeating the 13th Black Crusade it would be hugely important. It's unlikely no other leaders would be killed the war either. It could be a savage blow to power of Chaos for potentially millennia to come.
Hierophant wrote: his death would simply cause a series of promotions, nothing more
There is no reason to believe that there would be a warmaster or any kind of unified chaos faction after Abaddon. The warbands didn't get together and demand someone weld them into an alliance. As it is, Abaddon probably doesn't have the cooperation of more than 60% of all chaos forces. The Black Legion itself only exists at all because of Abaddon's aggressive recruiting from other gene lines. If a different officer were the most powerful of the former Sons of Horus, like one from the True Sons warband, then the "Black Legion" wouldn't be called that, might not recruit from other gene lines, and might reject daemonic pacts that Abaddon uses liberally. The most important thing is that first point that the legions don't recognize very much mutual self interest. There could be three or six pretenders who all have less power than Abaddon does now and none of whom work with the others.
Everyone here confuses the aims and will of the CSMs with that of the Chaos Gods. The two do not always equate, and in fact, quite often do not.
Abaddon rules, in part, because he has the backing of all four Gods. He, like all CSMs, is a pawn. Wittingly or not, he does the bidding of the Gods, and his path is theirs to shape as they see fit.
If a pretender took over, they would just as easily mould him into whatever they wanted him to be, and invest in him the same powers and give him the same access to Daemons, with CSMs that allied to the pretender the same carrots and sticks involved to follow him.
Virtually no CSM that deals with the Gods has any real control over their path in life other than an illusory one. Even the Primarchs were nothing more than pawns, and that's the main, ironic tragedy/stupidity of the CSMs. They believed they rebelled to throw off their shackles, but instead just entered into an even greater form of slavery, albiet a more subtle one.
Hierophant wrote: Everyone here confuses the aims and will of the CSMs with that of the Chaos Gods. The two do not always equate, and in fact, quite often do not.
Abaddon rules, in part, because he has the backing of all four Gods. He, like all CSMs, is a pawn. Wittingly or not, he does the bidding of the Gods, and his path is theirs to shape as they see fit.
If a pretender took over, they would just as easily mould him into whatever they wanted him to be, and invest in him the same powers and give him the same access to Daemons, with CSMs that allied to the pretender the same carrots and sticks involved to follow him.
Virtually no CSM that deals with the Gods has any real control over their path in life other than an illusory one. Even the Primarchs were nothing more than pawns, and that's the main, ironic tragedy/stupidity of the CSMs. They believed they rebelled to throw off their shackles, but instead just entered into an even greater form of slavery, albiet a more subtle one.
Kurze had very little truck with the Gods, and neither do the majority of the Night Lords, which is why I emphasised that element. Abaddon is the champion of Chaos Undivided. They're at polar ends of the CSM spectrum.
The non-Chaos worshipping elements of the Night Lords and the Alpha Legion (the majority) likely have infinitely far more free will than anyone dwelling in the Eye of Terror. If you live near the Warp and you deal with the Gods, then you're simply part of a larger plot. You're a tool, and nothing more.
Psienesis wrote: ... and after 25,000 years of research into building that monstrosity, you learn it's still taken out by a single infantryman with a melta-bomb.
Also, this is the fluff forum, points values and the like do not exist as in-universe concepts.
Invincible Behemoth special rule causes any explosion results to instead cause d3 hp losses. A Mega Sentinel with 16 hp would need about 6 melta bomb explosions.
The main idea was to just get every guardsmen into a sentinel. Make sentinels abundant and so numerous that sentinels be the go to army force instead of marines.
The "A Melta-Bomb Turns BaneBlades into Puddles of Slag" (AMBTBBiPoS) rule, as defined in the fluff for Baneblades and melta-bombs, and 40k in general, states that a weapon is only as destructive as its Cool Factor. If a Melta-bomb is used against the wall of some nameless building to attack some faceless mooks inside it, then it just blows a hole in the wall, maybe.
If the melta-bomb is carried by a Named Character on foot, without the benefit of heavy support and is charging a vehicle manned by his/her Nemesis? That melta-bomb will cause the deaths of worlds, *especially* if Our Hero is injured and/or dies in the resulting explosion.
you do understand Imperial Knights have Invincible Behemoth and its real.
EmpNortonII wrote: I'd open a dialog with the Ethereals to negotiate some sort of long-term cultural exchange and peace treaty. They need to understand the true dangers of Chaos, and my Imperial Guard needs pulse rifles and hover-tanks to replace the worthless gak they currently use.
Out of curiosity, why?
The Tau are a worthlessly tiny annoyance in one tiny insignificant corner of the Galaxy. Plus, nothing they have is better than what the Imperium already has theoretical access to. The Imperium could arm all their soldiers with power armor, plasma guns, and give them hover tanks if they wanted. The issue is that would mean they'd only be able to arm a tiny fraction of what they currently do. Getting some Tau technology wouldn't change the issue of finite resources.
Lasguns, LRBTs, and all the other gear Guardsmen get isn't the best, but it ensures the job gets done. As opposed to having only a small number of highly equipped but terribly outnumbered soldiers.
The Lasgun and LRBT are actually quite decent vehicles. The lasgun is cheap, very reliable, has decent stopping power, and is simple to operate. The LRBT is also cheap, has good armor, a long range and powerful gun that is both simple to operate and keep running, it runs on just about any combustible liquid, and its an all around reliable vehicle.
It doesn't matter if a Hammerhead is 3 times as good as an LRBT when you can deploy 9 LRBTs for the cost of one Hammerhead.
When you're almost 40,000 years old when you decide to sorta shuffle off the mortal coil, you had an awful lot of time to go Kirking around the galaxy.
you do understand Imperial Knights have Invincible Behemoth and its real.
And slap a melta-bomb on an IK's butt and watch it vanish into a super-heated cloud of adamantine gas. This is what melta-bombs are for, what they are specifically designed to do. It's a melta. This is a technology designed for the express purpose of cutting the uncutable, melting the unmeltable, and rendering heavy armor into a cute concept.
Champion of Slaanesh wrote: I'd destroy the inquisiton and grey knights kill the high Lords then force everyone to reject the Emporer and turn to Nurgle
Given his obsession with all-male color-coordinated armies, you're not going to find any.
The Emperor, canonically, has lots of children. :p
Apparently so...
Fun fact I learned looking into this.... apparently, psycannons, psyk-out grenades, and similar weapons are made by 1) the Emperor's psychyic gak and piss or 2) melting down the Emperor's children... wow.
Ya know, if he does turn into a God, he is gonna be PISSED at the Inquisition...
Also, I still think all of you are dooming humanity just by changing anything.
As has been said, 40k is not some insane place where a single sensible man could wave a sensibility-wand and just fix it up - the Imperium of Man is the best that can be done given the situation at hand.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Also, I still think all of you are dooming humanity just by changing anything.
As has been said, 40k is not some insane place where a single sensible man could wave a sensibility-wand and just fix it up - the Imperium of Man is the best that can be done given the situation at hand.
Excepting Hover-thrones. Hover-thrones make everything more awesome by at least 15%.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Also, I still think all of you are dooming humanity just by changing anything.
As has been said, 40k is not some insane place where a single sensible man could wave a sensibility-wand and just fix it up - the Imperium of Man is the best that can be done given the situation at hand.
Excepting Hover-thrones. Hover-thrones make everything more awesome by at least 15%.
Given his obsession with all-male color-coordinated armies, you're not going to find any.
The Emperor, canonically, has lots of children. :p
Apparently so...
Fun fact I learned looking into this.... apparently, psycannons, psyk-out grenades, and similar weapons are made by 1) the Emperor's psychyic gak and piss or 2) melting down the Emperor's children... wow.
Ya know, if he does turn into a God, he is gonna be PISSED at the Inquisition...
Given his actions, I doubt he gives 2 feths about his biological children.
Unit1126PLL wrote: Also, I still think all of you are dooming humanity just by changing anything.
As has been said, 40k is not some insane place where a single sensible man could wave a sensibility-wand and just fix it up - the Imperium of Man is the best that can be done given the situation at hand.
Excepting Hover-thrones. Hover-thrones make everything more awesome by at least 15%.
Put a ton of resources into killing him, and Honsou, or someone else, gets a promotion and all his Chaos gifts. Nothing has really changed. Nobody really cares about Abaddon (does anyone in Chaos care about anyone else?), and his death would simply cause a series of promotions, nothing more. No morale collapse, nothing.
The Chaos gods are not known for their ability to get along. They all have interests that work in opposition to each other. It could be that they find a leader quickly... or we get a scenario where the chosen warlords of various Chaos gods war and scheme for control for centuries while the IoM has enough time to crush Gaz, turn back the 'Nids, and hunt Necrons before they wake.... in that order, more than likely.
EmpNortonII wrote: I'd open a dialog with the Ethereals to negotiate some sort of long-term cultural exchange and peace treaty. They need to understand the true dangers of Chaos, and my Imperial Guard needs pulse rifles and hover-tanks to replace the worthless gak they currently use.
Out of curiosity, why?
The Tau are a worthlessly tiny annoyance in one tiny insignificant corner of the Galaxy. Plus, nothing they have is better than what the Imperium already has theoretical access to. The Imperium could arm all their soldiers with power armor, plasma guns, and give them hover tanks if they wanted. The issue is that would mean they'd only be able to arm a tiny fraction of what they currently do. Getting some Tau technology wouldn't change the issue of finite resources.
Lasguns, LRBTs, and all the other gear Guardsmen get isn't the best, but it ensures the job gets done. As opposed to having only a small number of highly equipped but terribly outnumbered soldiers.
The Lasgun and LRBT are actually quite decent vehicles. The lasgun is cheap, very reliable, has decent stopping power, and is simple to operate. The LRBT is also cheap, has good armor, a long range and powerful gun that is both simple to operate and keep running, it runs on just about any combustible liquid, and its an all around reliable vehicle.
It doesn't matter if a Hammerhead is 3 times as good as an LRBT when you can deploy 9 LRBTs for the cost of one Hammerhead.
The Tau make their weapons efficiently enough they can arm every soldier with a rifle superior to the bolter humanity reserves for its elite warriors. They're the only race in the galaxy that is advancing technology- every other race has hits its zenith and is falling backwards. Both make the Tau worthwhile allies that can change the fate of the galaxy.
Numerical superiority didn't work out well on Taros. The Tau captured about as many troops as they themselves deployed in the conflict, iirc.
Champion of Slaanesh wrote: I'd destroy the inquisiton and grey knights kill the high Lords then force everyone to reject the Emporer and turn to Nurgle
... are you sure you chose the right username?
I was a follower of the dark prince but then the grandfather showed me the true way :p
1. Whip Mechanicus into shape (ie. bring them under Imperial authority), remove the infighting, politicising and backstabbing to increase the technological output. Make them start figuring out how to mass-produce a non-warp FTL.
2. Attempt to negotiate a truce with the Eldar. More useful to work together than be at war. Give them free hands to deal with any and all Necron incursions and Tyranid infestations (within reason).
3. Mobilize Segmentum Obscurus, and kick Abbadon back into the hole he crawled from.
4. Start to assign manpower and resources to find a chemical/biological weapon against the Tyranids.
5. Force the Tau to succumb or be destroyed. Give front liability to Ultramar.
6. Start figuring out how to lessen the bureaucracy of the Administratum.
Make peace with Tau then jointly convert a forge world to spew out plasma rifles by the trillions. With every guardsman holding a Tau rifle the Imperiums problems will simply melt away. (Or not as it happens since only las-guns do that)
1. Whip Mechanicus into shape (ie. bring them under Imperial authority), remove the infighting, politicising and backstabbing to increase the technological output. Make them start figuring out how to mass-produce a non-warp FTL.
That is literally impossible. Every single government organization in the world has politicking and infighting and backstabbing in it; it's how people gain power within the organization and it's how Generals become Generals, the CIA directory became the CIA director, etc. Developing FTL drives that aren't Warp-reliant could take millenia, as virtually any FTL drive would need to defy the laws of physics just to move faster than light. As it is, Warp Drives allow ships to travel millions of light years in a couple of months.
2. Attempt to negotiate a truce with the Eldar. More useful to work together than be at war. Give them free hands to deal with any and all Necron incursions and Tyranid infestations (within reason).
MAkes sense, except for the second sentence. The Eldar would need some serious help to deal with Necrons and 'Nids, not to mention the fact that they wouldn't much care about Imperial systems lost to Necrons.
3. Mobilize Segmentum Obscurus, and kick Abbadon back into the hole he crawled from.
To do so, you would need to get a Warp God more powerful than Chaos Undivided to stabilize the EoT, and that simply isn't going to happen.
4. Start to assign manpower and resources to find a chemical/biological weapon against the Tyranids.
They would simply adapt to it, but if you were to, say, create a rapidly evolving, semi-intelligent mutagen (similar t the Tyranids, really), you could, potentially, conquer them. However this would, invariably, bite the Imperium in the ass later on.
5. Force the Tau to succumb or be destroyed. Give front liability to Ultramar.
This has been tried, and it failed.
6. Start figuring out how to lessen the bureaucracy of the Administratum.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you simply misworded this. Perhaps you meant "lessen the complexity and inefficiency of the bureaucracy", which would be beneficial.
this is under the assumption that I am a mortal who needs to remain alive.
1. Get rid of the PDF and replace it with the SDF (sector defence force). this should allow individual worlds to hold out better because more local forces will be available while the IG or SM.
2. Try and create a better list of all the worlds occupied by humanity. Somehow convince the Navis Nobilite to create a shared star map through magic or the 3 Bs (bribery, blackmail and bullying).
3. Declare certain worlds under the governorship of the IG either in strategic positions or worlds in risk of attack and get them to build fortifications massively.
4. Set up something similar to the AdMech but with less religious stuff. Over a long time far exceeding my own lifetime they would replace the AdMech through slowly reverse- engineering and finding and copying STCs.
This won't solve the issue but at the end of the day I will still be alive sitting on my hover throne and then place might be a tiny bit nicer.
LumenPraebeo wrote: Bring reform to the Administratum, the Imperial Navy, the Imperial Guard, dismantle the Inquisition and bring all its personnel under the responsibility of the Officio Assassinorum. Bring reform to the Officio Assassinorum, and turn it into an general Intelligence branch of the Imperium. Increase Space Marine chapters, begin a 27th Founding. Increase Deathwatch chapter to legion strength, 10,000 strong. Start a propaganda campaign to increase colonization. Especially to worlds in between trade hubs. Initiate research project to find more efficient ways of terraforming, I imagine this will require bringing in knowledge from the Ordo Xenos and the Martian priesthood. Increase propaganda campaign for the celebration of the Emperor and his Primarchs. Remove Ministorum leaders from seats of power. Reverse positions of authority for the Adepta Sororitas, bringing the Ministorum under the watchful eye of the students it graduates. Remove their ships, and make sure the Sororitas work in close tandem with the Navy and Guard. Bring reform to the Arbites, make sure they conform to standard equipment. Lower tithes on planets across the board, but bring the taxes up to standard. No uneven tithes on planets of the same grade. Increase production demands on the Mechanicus and Forge Worlds. Bring reforms to education across the Imperium. Increase ship production. Demand increase in workers. Demand increase in Navigator population. Fix the Golden Throne.
Only just started reading this thread, but you'd do well to last 5 minutes with such wide and in-universe radical changes. The only question would be, who would get to you first, the inquisition or the Ecclesiarchy.
I'd keep it running as is for the first few weeks to get my own hedonistic desires out of my system. Gotta enjoy life a bit before getting into the brutal grind.
In the first while, I'd be having huge parties with tons of people, all the cool mafk's from the lore who could make it there in that time frame.
I'd probably try to hook tons of people up with free stuff everywhere I went. Starving populace on the way to 'insert party'? Be sure to bring a caravan of food and valuables/currency for them. It would be like the historical Hajj of Mansa Musa. Read up on the man Mansa Musa, you'll be blown away who the wealthiest man in history actually was and what he did. I'd basically try to do what he did minus the accidental destabilization of economies.
As a bodybuilder I'd also have a personal cook/nutritionist who was a servitor/cyborg. She would be able to measure every portion perfectly, even analyze my exact macros down to the calorie due to the scales and laser measurement equipment and other assorted tools integrated into her physiology. Build myself up perfectly.
The dopest wardrobe in the sector. Personal tailor, etc.
Also get the craziest ship tailored just for me. Lots of cool things on board like different artificial environments depending on my mood, several clubs, a huge gym, friends and family all over the place enjoying themselves.
The Tau make their weapons efficiently enough they can arm every soldier with a rifle superior to the bolter humanity reserves for its elite warriors. They're the only race in the galaxy that is advancing technology- every other race has hits its zenith and is falling backwards. Both make the Tau worthwhile allies that can change the fate of the galaxy.
Numerical superiority didn't work out well on Taros. The Tau captured about as many troops as they themselves deployed in the conflict, iirc.
The Imperium is falling backwards technologically entirely because of Dogma. Break that and they start to move forwards again.
Or find a fully functional STC, and suddenly they murderize everything in the universe.
Also, you keep bringing up that "Every Tau has a pulse rifle!" argument like it matters.. That's great and all, but the Imperium has more freaking tanks than the Tau do Pulse Rifles. The Tau can arm their miniscule army pretty well because it's miniscule, the Imperium craps out more of every single type of heavy / specialized weapon than the Tau do their basic armament.
1. Get rid of the PDF and replace it with the SDF (sector defence force). this should allow individual worlds to hold out better because more local forces will be available while the IG or SM.
2. Try and create a better list of all the worlds occupied by humanity. Somehow convince the Navis Nobilite to create a shared star map through magic or the 3 Bs (bribery, blackmail and bullying).
3. Declare certain worlds under the governorship of the IG either in strategic positions or worlds in risk of attack and get them to build fortifications massively.
4. Set up something similar to the AdMech but with less religious stuff. Over a long time far exceeding my own lifetime they would replace the AdMech through slowly reverse- engineering and finding and copying STCs.
1 - The Astra Militarum operates at sector as well as segmentum level - it essentially is the force you're talking about here; local forces get moved around at sector level from sector capitals or their naval bases. See the Calixis Sector in Dark Heresy - the Imperial Guard is essentially running wars at the local level, because you can't make timely strategic decisions from further away.
2 - The problem is that the Navis don't know what they know. Even the paterfamilias of a given dynasty won't know everything every member of that dynasty knows, because certain 'routes' are the property of Rogue Traders, etc and the information never gets reported back to Terra. I would argue that they probably try - that's what the Paternova's job theoretically is (the Paternoval Envoy is his representative to the High Lords and vice-versa.
3 - They already are. Cadia is the obvious example, but there's a whole category of 'fortress worlds' and 'armoury worlds' run by the Astra Militarum/Navy and Departmeno Munitorium. Vraks was another one, as is 88 Tanstar and Port Maw.
4 - The problem is, who's going to train them? To get a meaningful working knowledge of technology you need education from the senior Adeptus Mechanicus (the Magos who understand some of the underlying equations and science, not just the work-a-day enginseers who follow a set ritual because machine spirit). Which means you're asking the organisation you're intending to replace to train the people intended to destroy their religion.
-Dismantle the Ecclesiarchy
-Merge the Officcio Assassinorum and the Inquisition into an Imperial Intelligence force
-Invest in some serious green energy programmes
-Decrease tax rates on Imperial citizens and provide some basic healthcare programs
-Re-form chapters into legions that are more easily manageable
-Reform the Administratum to be less bureaucratic
-Gather all on Terra
-Unplug the golden throne
-Laugh maniacally as the corpse emperor and his slaves burn in the fires of chaos
1. Get rid of the PDF and replace it with the SDF (sector defence force). this should allow individual worlds to hold out better because more local forces will be available while the IG or SM.
2. Try and create a better list of all the worlds occupied by humanity. Somehow convince the Navis Nobilite to create a shared star map through magic or the 3 Bs (bribery, blackmail and bullying).
3. Declare certain worlds under the governorship of the IG either in strategic positions or worlds in risk of attack and get them to build fortifications massively.
4. Set up something similar to the AdMech but with less religious stuff. Over a long time far exceeding my own lifetime they would replace the AdMech through slowly reverse- engineering and finding and copying STCs.
1 - The Astra Militarum operates at sector as well as segmentum level - it essentially is the force you're talking about here; local forces get moved around at sector level from sector capitals or their naval bases. See the Calixis Sector in Dark Heresy - the Imperial Guard is essentially running wars at the local level, because you can't make timely strategic decisions from further away.
2 - The problem is that the Navis don't know what they know. Even the paterfamilias of a given dynasty won't know everything every member of that dynasty knows, because certain 'routes' are the property of Rogue Traders, etc and the information never gets reported back to Terra. I would argue that they probably try - that's what the Paternova's job theoretically is (the Paternoval Envoy is his representative to the High Lords and vice-versa.
3 - They already are. Cadia is the obvious example, but there's a whole category of 'fortress worlds' and 'armoury worlds' run by the Astra Militarum/Navy and Departmeno Munitorium. Vraks was another one, as is 88 Tanstar and Port Maw.
4 - The problem is, who's going to train them? To get a meaningful working knowledge of technology you need education from the senior Adeptus Mechanicus (the Magos who understand some of the underlying equations and science, not just the work-a-day enginseers who follow a set ritual because machine spirit). Which means you're asking the organisation you're intending to replace to train the people intended to destroy their religion.
right then I suppose the Imperium is truly doing it's absolute useless best. I can't think of anything else on a galatic scale.
emperorsGlory wrote: Let's say through some miraculous mixup or strange turn of fortunes, you are suddenly given full control of the Imperium of Man.
What would be the first thing you would do?
emperorsGlory wrote: Let's say through some miraculous mixup or strange turn of fortunes, you are suddenly given full control of the Imperium of Man.
What would be the first thing you would do?
emperorsGlory wrote: Let's say through some miraculous mixup or strange turn of fortunes, you are suddenly given full control of the Imperium of Man.
What would be the first thing you would do?
from everything I read everyone's assertions will probably look more like this:
Step one: introduce reforms
Step two: fight a civil war
Step three: achieve piece
Step four : fight a civil war...
repeat until everything has been cleansed or aligned.
That is realistically how most of these plans would go, especially if you are going to reform the Ad. Mech or the Inquisition. Those in power will fight not to lose it,
The Tau make their weapons efficiently enough they can arm every soldier with a rifle superior to the bolter humanity reserves for its elite warriors. They're the only race in the galaxy that is advancing technology- every other race has hits its zenith and is falling backwards. Both make the Tau worthwhile allies that can change the fate of the galaxy.
Numerical superiority didn't work out well on Taros. The Tau captured about as many troops as they themselves deployed in the conflict, iirc.
The Imperium is falling backwards technologically entirely because of Dogma. Break that and they start to move forwards again.
Or find a fully functional STC, and suddenly they murderize everything in the universe.
Also, you keep bringing up that "Every Tau has a pulse rifle!" argument like it matters.. That's great and all, but the Imperium has more freaking tanks than the Tau do Pulse Rifles. The Tau can arm their miniscule army pretty well because it's miniscule, the Imperium craps out more of every single type of heavy / specialized weapon than the Tau do their basic armament.
With production of arms, efficiency of scale does, in fact, come into play... and in fact makes what the Tau do more impressive.
The Tau, as I understand it, aren't big enough to have entire worlds centered solely on cranking out armaments. Each Sept looks after its own Cadres and auxiliaries. This makes the Tau even more impressive, not less. Especially since the Fire Caste probably makes up a much larger portion of the Empire compared to the Imperium's Guard.
The problem with breaking the dogma is that the dogma serves a function- protecting humanity from the corrupting influence Chaos can have on certain forms of technology. Finding a fully-functioning STC carries a similar danger (although my Brilliant Plan involves seizing one). Both together will result in a repeat of the incident around the Men of Iron. The Tau have less of a worry, for various in-universe reasons that don't make sense the way the real world works.
The combined sum of Imperial tanks led to a loss against Abaddon on Cadia. Don't forget that. Clearly, humanity's quantity of arms only gets them so far. If you want to kill Abaddon (and I do) you need something other than what the Imperium had.
My plan requires something else, so I intend to get it. The Tau have it. Humanity does not.
If I was in charge?
The first thing I'd do is commission a huge self sufficient ship from the AdMech.
One that can survive without external assistance from planets, asteroids or other celestial bodies.
As I flee the Universe, I submit a signal to Terra saying I resign from my post.
As I flee the Universe, I submit a signal to Terra saying I resign from my post.
I think you'll find the Universe pretty much covers everything...
Pfft. Whatever. As I flee the place where all the Chaos and Necrons are, and where the Tyranids are going to.
As long as I avoid the Outsiders realm, and give the SpaceBugs a tasty treat in the form of a Minotaur/BT crusade, then they'll ignore me, and I'm out of the Galaxy.
emperorsGlory wrote: Let's say through some miraculous mixup or strange turn of fortunes, you are suddenly given full control of the Imperium of Man.
What would be the first thing you would do?
Reinstate the Marine Corps. The Reason the Imperium is so stagnant is they have let their standards fall. After a couple of years, maybe summoning the Ghost of Chesty Puller we could easily reinvigorate the Great Crusade. So long as theirs enough Porn, Chewing Tobacco and Whiskey in the supplies I don't see how this could fail
emperorsGlory wrote: Let's say through some miraculous mixup or strange turn of fortunes, you are suddenly given full control of the Imperium of Man.
What would be the first thing you would do?
Reinstate the Marine Corps. The Reason the Imperium is so stagnant is they have let their standards fall. After a couple of years, maybe summoning the Ghost of Chesty Puller we could easily reinvigorate the Great Crusade. So long as theirs enough Porn, Chewing Tobacco and Whiskey in the supplies I don't see how this could fail
Easy. The Marines will demand that all future aircraft have a jump-jet version, and thus the IoM will forever sacrifice air superiority to its enemies as all of its fighters will have to be light enough to take off from ski ramps and land vertically, regardless of how it penalizes the non-Marine versions, because they'll STILL be hung up on Guadalcanal 40,000 years later.
emperorsGlory wrote: Let's say through some miraculous mixup or strange turn of fortunes, you are suddenly given full control of the Imperium of Man.
What would be the first thing you would do?
Reinstate the Marine Corps. The Reason the Imperium is so stagnant is they have let their standards fall. After a couple of years, maybe summoning the Ghost of Chesty Puller we could easily reinvigorate the Great Crusade. So long as theirs enough Porn, Chewing Tobacco and Whiskey in the supplies I don't see how this could fail
Put a ton of resources into killing him, and Honsou, or someone else, gets a promotion and all his Chaos gifts. Nothing has really changed. Nobody really cares about Abaddon (does anyone in Chaos care about anyone else?), and his death would simply cause a series of promotions, nothing more. No morale collapse, nothing.
The Chaos gods are not known for their ability to get along. They all have interests that work in opposition to each other. It could be that they find a leader quickly... or we get a scenario where the chosen warlords of various Chaos gods war and scheme for control for centuries while the IoM has enough time to crush Gaz, turn back the 'Nids, and hunt Necrons before they wake.... in that order, more than likely.
EmpNortonII wrote: I'd open a dialog with the Ethereals to negotiate some sort of long-term cultural exchange and peace treaty. They need to understand the true dangers of Chaos, and my Imperial Guard needs pulse rifles and hover-tanks to replace the worthless gak they currently use.
Out of curiosity, why?
The Tau are a worthlessly tiny annoyance in one tiny insignificant corner of the Galaxy. Plus, nothing they have is better than what the Imperium already has theoretical access to. The Imperium could arm all their soldiers with power armor, plasma guns, and give them hover tanks if they wanted. The issue is that would mean they'd only be able to arm a tiny fraction of what they currently do. Getting some Tau technology wouldn't change the issue of finite resources.
Lasguns, LRBTs, and all the other gear Guardsmen get isn't the best, but it ensures the job gets done. As opposed to having only a small number of highly equipped but terribly outnumbered soldiers.
The Lasgun and LRBT are actually quite decent vehicles. The lasgun is cheap, very reliable, has decent stopping power, and is simple to operate. The LRBT is also cheap, has good armor, a long range and powerful gun that is both simple to operate and keep running, it runs on just about any combustible liquid, and its an all around reliable vehicle.
It doesn't matter if a Hammerhead is 3 times as good as an LRBT when you can deploy 9 LRBTs for the cost of one Hammerhead.
The Tau make their weapons efficiently enough they can arm every soldier with a rifle superior to the bolter humanity reserves for its elite warriors. They're the only race in the galaxy that is advancing technology- every other race has hits its zenith and is falling backwards. Both make the Tau worthwhile allies that can change the fate of the galaxy.
Numerical superiority didn't work out well on Taros. The Tau captured about as many troops as they themselves deployed in the conflict, iirc.
Sure, they can make their weapons efficiently now. They couldn't if they had to arm trillions upon trillions of people a year.
Yes they are advancing technologically. But they're still very primitive compared to the Imperium and Ad Mech. It would be better to simply use what the Imperium already has more efficiently. Not downgrade for stuff that's flashy, but actually less advanced.
Taros wasn't numerical superiority. Literally in none of the Imperium-Tau conflicts has the Imperium thrown any serious weight at the Tau, because they're insignificant and not worth the effort. If the Tau EVER catch the Imperium's real attention, they'll last maybe a few decades.
This is what the Tau are. The Tau are a small tribe of people who live on a tiny Island in the Caribbean. They happen to have invented a gun that can shoot a half mile with accuracy. The Imperium is the British Empire which spans the globe with the power of their Navy. These pitiful natives have only managed to invent log rafts to travel from island to island. Saying the Tau are what would save the Imperium is like saying these natives have something the British Empire would not only need, but something that they will go extinct without. Believe me, nothing the Tau have is a threat to the Imperium OR the key to saving it.
Just pointing it out here, but the tau's plasma weaponry is pretty nice. AFAIK, it is a lot less likely to explode than the IoM's version, and does much more damage than a lasrifle, while still being easy to manufacture. (Granted, not as easy as lasrifles areally to produce en mass)
Just to clarify, Imperial Plasma weapons do not actually explode except in very very rare circumstances. Gets Hot doesn't represent it exploding, it represents the emergency cooling systems venting and injuring the wielder(hence why you get an armor save). The weapon itself is going to be perfectly fine. When you have tons of soldiers to carry said weapon, and don't care about their personal safety, having it injure its users is perfectly acceptable when its very strong. You'll notice Imperial plasma is stronger than Tau plasma.
Grey Templar wrote: Just to clarify, Imperial Plasma weapons do not actually explode except in very very rare circumstances. Gets Hot doesn't represent it exploding, it represents the emergency cooling systems venting and injuring the wielder(hence why you get an armor save). The weapon itself is going to be perfectly fine. When you have tons of soldiers to carry said weapon, and don't care about their personal safety, having it injure its users is perfectly acceptable when its very strong. You'll notice Imperial plasma is stronger than Tau plasma.
Significantly so. An Imperial Plasma gun can kill you by vicinity. You don't need a direct hit to kill something like an Ork, Human, or Firewarrior. The bolt is so hot that a glob of the stuff flying by your person will cause you to burst into flame and end up looking like Uncle Owen.
emperorsGlory wrote: Let's say through some miraculous mixup or strange turn of fortunes, you are suddenly given full control of the Imperium of Man.
What would be the first thing you would do?
Reinstate the Marine Corps. The Reason the Imperium is so stagnant is they have let their standards fall. After a couple of years, maybe summoning the Ghost of Chesty Puller we could easily reinvigorate the Great Crusade. So long as theirs enough Porn, Chewing Tobacco and Whiskey in the supplies I don't see how this could fail
Easy. The Marines will demand that all future aircraft have a jump-jet version, and thus the IoM will forever sacrifice air superiority to its enemies as all of its fighters will have to be light enough to take off from ski ramps and land vertically, regardless of how it penalizes the non-Marine versions, because they'll STILL be hung up on Guadalcanal 40,000 years later.
Grey Templar wrote: Just to clarify, Imperial Plasma weapons do not actually explode except in very very rare circumstances. Gets Hot doesn't represent it exploding, it represents the emergency cooling systems venting and injuring the wielder(hence why you get an armor save). The weapon itself is going to be perfectly fine. When you have tons of soldiers to carry said weapon, and don't care about their personal safety, having it injure its users is perfectly acceptable when its very strong. You'll notice Imperial plasma is stronger than Tau plasma.
Significantly so. An Imperial Plasma gun can kill you by vicinity. You don't need a direct hit to kill something like an Ork, Human, or Firewarrior. The bolt is so hot that a glob of the stuff flying by your person will cause you to burst into flame and end up looking like Uncle Owen.
Gotta be, I saw an interview where a soldier mentions that a .50 cal bullet can sear flesh just by passing a bunch ( I want to say 18, but I don't remember) of inches near said flesh.
Grey Templar wrote: Just to clarify, Imperial Plasma weapons do not actually explode except in very very rare circumstances. Gets Hot doesn't represent it exploding, it represents the emergency cooling systems venting and injuring the wielder(hence why you get an armor save). The weapon itself is going to be perfectly fine. When you have tons of soldiers to carry said weapon, and don't care about their personal safety, having it injure its users is perfectly acceptable when its very strong. You'll notice Imperial plasma is stronger than Tau plasma.
Significantly so. An Imperial Plasma gun can kill you by vicinity. You don't need a direct hit to kill something like an Ork, Human, or Firewarrior. The bolt is so hot that a glob of the stuff flying by your person will cause you to burst into flame and end up looking like Uncle Owen.
Gotta be, I saw an interview where a soldier mentions that a .50 cal bullet can sear flesh just by passing a bunch ( I want to say 18, but I don't remember) of inches near said flesh.
That's probably the tracers considering .50 lacks the energy to shatter glass when passing by it.
Put a ton of resources into killing him, and Honsou, or someone else, gets a promotion and all his Chaos gifts. Nothing has really changed. Nobody really cares about Abaddon (does anyone in Chaos care about anyone else?), and his death would simply cause a series of promotions, nothing more. No morale collapse, nothing.
The Chaos gods are not known for their ability to get along. They all have interests that work in opposition to each other. It could be that they find a leader quickly... or we get a scenario where the chosen warlords of various Chaos gods war and scheme for control for centuries while the IoM has enough time to crush Gaz, turn back the 'Nids, and hunt Necrons before they wake.... in that order, more than likely.
EmpNortonII wrote: I'd open a dialog with the Ethereals to negotiate some sort of long-term cultural exchange and peace treaty. They need to understand the true dangers of Chaos, and my Imperial Guard needs pulse rifles and hover-tanks to replace the worthless gak they currently use.
Out of curiosity, why?
The Tau are a worthlessly tiny annoyance in one tiny insignificant corner of the Galaxy. Plus, nothing they have is better than what the Imperium already has theoretical access to. The Imperium could arm all their soldiers with power armor, plasma guns, and give them hover tanks if they wanted. The issue is that would mean they'd only be able to arm a tiny fraction of what they currently do. Getting some Tau technology wouldn't change the issue of finite resources.
Lasguns, LRBTs, and all the other gear Guardsmen get isn't the best, but it ensures the job gets done. As opposed to having only a small number of highly equipped but terribly outnumbered soldiers.
The Lasgun and LRBT are actually quite decent vehicles. The lasgun is cheap, very reliable, has decent stopping power, and is simple to operate. The LRBT is also cheap, has good armor, a long range and powerful gun that is both simple to operate and keep running, it runs on just about any combustible liquid, and its an all around reliable vehicle.
It doesn't matter if a Hammerhead is 3 times as good as an LRBT when you can deploy 9 LRBTs for the cost of one Hammerhead.
The Tau make their weapons efficiently enough they can arm every soldier with a rifle superior to the bolter humanity reserves for its elite warriors. They're the only race in the galaxy that is advancing technology- every other race has hits its zenith and is falling backwards. Both make the Tau worthwhile allies that can change the fate of the galaxy.
Numerical superiority didn't work out well on Taros. The Tau captured about as many troops as they themselves deployed in the conflict, iirc.
Sure, they can make their weapons efficiently now. They couldn't if they had to arm trillions upon trillions of people a year.
Yes they are advancing technologically. But they're still very primitive compared to the Imperium and Ad Mech. It would be better to simply use what the Imperium already has more efficiently. Not downgrade for stuff that's flashy, but actually less advanced.
Taros wasn't numerical superiority. Literally in none of the Imperium-Tau conflicts has the Imperium thrown any serious weight at the Tau, because they're insignificant and not worth the effort. If the Tau EVER catch the Imperium's real attention, they'll last maybe a few decades.
This is what the Tau are. The Tau are a small tribe of people who live on a tiny Island in the Caribbean. They happen to have invented a gun that can shoot a half mile with accuracy. The Imperium is the British Empire which spans the globe with the power of their Navy. These pitiful natives have only managed to invent log rafts to travel from island to island. Saying the Tau are what would save the Imperium is like saying these natives have something the British Empire would not only need, but something that they will go extinct without. Believe me, nothing the Tau have is a threat to the Imperium OR the key to saving it.
At Taros, the Tau captured about as many Imperial troops as the Tau fielded in the campaign... and most of the humans escaped (tails between their legs).
A pulse rifle is certainly more advanced than a bolter. The pulse rifle is easier to use, easier to manufacture, hits harder, and has a longer range... and that's what humanity gives to its *elite* warriors as a battle rifle.
Put a ton of resources into killing him, and Honsou, or someone else, gets a promotion and all his Chaos gifts. Nothing has really changed. Nobody really cares about Abaddon (does anyone in Chaos care about anyone else?), and his death would simply cause a series of promotions, nothing more. No morale collapse, nothing.
The Chaos gods are not known for their ability to get along. They all have interests that work in opposition to each other. It could be that they find a leader quickly... or we get a scenario where the chosen warlords of various Chaos gods war and scheme for control for centuries while the IoM has enough time to crush Gaz, turn back the 'Nids, and hunt Necrons before they wake.... in that order, more than likely.
EmpNortonII wrote: I'd open a dialog with the Ethereals to negotiate some sort of long-term cultural exchange and peace treaty. They need to understand the true dangers of Chaos, and my Imperial Guard needs pulse rifles and hover-tanks to replace the worthless gak they currently use.
Out of curiosity, why?
The Tau are a worthlessly tiny annoyance in one tiny insignificant corner of the Galaxy. Plus, nothing they have is better than what the Imperium already has theoretical access to. The Imperium could arm all their soldiers with power armor, plasma guns, and give them hover tanks if they wanted. The issue is that would mean they'd only be able to arm a tiny fraction of what they currently do. Getting some Tau technology wouldn't change the issue of finite resources.
Lasguns, LRBTs, and all the other gear Guardsmen get isn't the best, but it ensures the job gets done. As opposed to having only a small number of highly equipped but terribly outnumbered soldiers.
The Lasgun and LRBT are actually quite decent vehicles. The lasgun is cheap, very reliable, has decent stopping power, and is simple to operate. The LRBT is also cheap, has good armor, a long range and powerful gun that is both simple to operate and keep running, it runs on just about any combustible liquid, and its an all around reliable vehicle.
It doesn't matter if a Hammerhead is 3 times as good as an LRBT when you can deploy 9 LRBTs for the cost of one Hammerhead.
The Tau make their weapons efficiently enough they can arm every soldier with a rifle superior to the bolter humanity reserves for its elite warriors. They're the only race in the galaxy that is advancing technology- every other race has hits its zenith and is falling backwards. Both make the Tau worthwhile allies that can change the fate of the galaxy.
Numerical superiority didn't work out well on Taros. The Tau captured about as many troops as they themselves deployed in the conflict, iirc.
Sure, they can make their weapons efficiently now. They couldn't if they had to arm trillions upon trillions of people a year.
Yes they are advancing technologically. But they're still very primitive compared to the Imperium and Ad Mech. It would be better to simply use what the Imperium already has more efficiently. Not downgrade for stuff that's flashy, but actually less advanced.
Taros wasn't numerical superiority. Literally in none of the Imperium-Tau conflicts has the Imperium thrown any serious weight at the Tau, because they're insignificant and not worth the effort. If the Tau EVER catch the Imperium's real attention, they'll last maybe a few decades.
This is what the Tau are. The Tau are a small tribe of people who live on a tiny Island in the Caribbean. They happen to have invented a gun that can shoot a half mile with accuracy. The Imperium is the British Empire which spans the globe with the power of their Navy. These pitiful natives have only managed to invent log rafts to travel from island to island. Saying the Tau are what would save the Imperium is like saying these natives have something the British Empire would not only need, but something that they will go extinct without. Believe me, nothing the Tau have is a threat to the Imperium OR the key to saving it.
At Taros, the Tau captured about as many Imperial troops as the Tau fielded in the campaign... and most of the humans escaped (tails between their legs).
A pulse rifle is certainly more advanced than a bolter. The pulse rifle is easier to use, easier to manufacture, hits harder, and has a longer range... and that's what humanity gives to its *elite* warriors as a battle rifle.
And a Bolter has more than one type of ammunition. You try shooting Pulse Rifles at Tyranids, I'll take Hellfire rounds, thankyouverymuch.
Put a ton of resources into killing him, and Honsou, or someone else, gets a promotion and all his Chaos gifts. Nothing has really changed. Nobody really cares about Abaddon (does anyone in Chaos care about anyone else?), and his death would simply cause a series of promotions, nothing more. No morale collapse, nothing.
The Chaos gods are not known for their ability to get along. They all have interests that work in opposition to each other. It could be that they find a leader quickly... or we get a scenario where the chosen warlords of various Chaos gods war and scheme for control for centuries while the IoM has enough time to crush Gaz, turn back the 'Nids, and hunt Necrons before they wake.... in that order, more than likely.
EmpNortonII wrote: I'd open a dialog with the Ethereals to negotiate some sort of long-term cultural exchange and peace treaty. They need to understand the true dangers of Chaos, and my Imperial Guard needs pulse rifles and hover-tanks to replace the worthless gak they currently use.
Out of curiosity, why?
The Tau are a worthlessly tiny annoyance in one tiny insignificant corner of the Galaxy. Plus, nothing they have is better than what the Imperium already has theoretical access to. The Imperium could arm all their soldiers with power armor, plasma guns, and give them hover tanks if they wanted. The issue is that would mean they'd only be able to arm a tiny fraction of what they currently do. Getting some Tau technology wouldn't change the issue of finite resources.
Lasguns, LRBTs, and all the other gear Guardsmen get isn't the best, but it ensures the job gets done. As opposed to having only a small number of highly equipped but terribly outnumbered soldiers.
The Lasgun and LRBT are actually quite decent vehicles. The lasgun is cheap, very reliable, has decent stopping power, and is simple to operate. The LRBT is also cheap, has good armor, a long range and powerful gun that is both simple to operate and keep running, it runs on just about any combustible liquid, and its an all around reliable vehicle.
It doesn't matter if a Hammerhead is 3 times as good as an LRBT when you can deploy 9 LRBTs for the cost of one Hammerhead.
The Tau make their weapons efficiently enough they can arm every soldier with a rifle superior to the bolter humanity reserves for its elite warriors. They're the only race in the galaxy that is advancing technology- every other race has hits its zenith and is falling backwards. Both make the Tau worthwhile allies that can change the fate of the galaxy.
Numerical superiority didn't work out well on Taros. The Tau captured about as many troops as they themselves deployed in the conflict, iirc.
Sure, they can make their weapons efficiently now. They couldn't if they had to arm trillions upon trillions of people a year.
Yes they are advancing technologically. But they're still very primitive compared to the Imperium and Ad Mech. It would be better to simply use what the Imperium already has more efficiently. Not downgrade for stuff that's flashy, but actually less advanced.
Taros wasn't numerical superiority. Literally in none of the Imperium-Tau conflicts has the Imperium thrown any serious weight at the Tau, because they're insignificant and not worth the effort. If the Tau EVER catch the Imperium's real attention, they'll last maybe a few decades.
This is what the Tau are. The Tau are a small tribe of people who live on a tiny Island in the Caribbean. They happen to have invented a gun that can shoot a half mile with accuracy. The Imperium is the British Empire which spans the globe with the power of their Navy. These pitiful natives have only managed to invent log rafts to travel from island to island. Saying the Tau are what would save the Imperium is like saying these natives have something the British Empire would not only need, but something that they will go extinct without. Believe me, nothing the Tau have is a threat to the Imperium OR the key to saving it.
At Taros, the Tau captured about as many Imperial troops as the Tau fielded in the campaign... and most of the humans escaped (tails between their legs).
A pulse rifle is certainly more advanced than a bolter. The pulse rifle is easier to use, easier to manufacture, hits harder, and has a longer range... and that's what humanity gives to its *elite* warriors as a battle rifle.
The pulse rifle is more advanced, but not more effective or easier to mass produce. The Bolter was specifically designed by the Emperor to be able to take down foes with power close to the Volkite weaponry while still being mass produceable at a scale that would allow the Legions to use them on a galaxy-spanning crusade (which the Volkite weaponry was not). The Bolter has both armour penetration capabilities. On paper, the Pulse Rifle is better. However, in fluff, the Bolter is more effective against anything fleshy. It has the same amount of armour penetration, but it penetrates the opponent's flesh and it explodes inside of it. Whereas, the Pulse Rifle has greater range and jut melts right through the flesh. While Plasma is arguably more effective, it doesn't have the same shock and awe value that the Bolter has, which makes a Bolter more effective against massed targets and pretty much any foe that isn't comprised of unfeeling robots. The Bolter and Pulse Rifle are equally effective, but they were designed for different situations.
Put a ton of resources into killing him, and Honsou, or someone else, gets a promotion and all his Chaos gifts. Nothing has really changed. Nobody really cares about Abaddon (does anyone in Chaos care about anyone else?), and his death would simply cause a series of promotions, nothing more. No morale collapse, nothing.
The Chaos gods are not known for their ability to get along. They all have interests that work in opposition to each other. It could be that they find a leader quickly... or we get a scenario where the chosen warlords of various Chaos gods war and scheme for control for centuries while the IoM has enough time to crush Gaz, turn back the 'Nids, and hunt Necrons before they wake.... in that order, more than likely.
EmpNortonII wrote: I'd open a dialog with the Ethereals to negotiate some sort of long-term cultural exchange and peace treaty. They need to understand the true dangers of Chaos, and my Imperial Guard needs pulse rifles and hover-tanks to replace the worthless gak they currently use.
Out of curiosity, why?
The Tau are a worthlessly tiny annoyance in one tiny insignificant corner of the Galaxy. Plus, nothing they have is better than what the Imperium already has theoretical access to. The Imperium could arm all their soldiers with power armor, plasma guns, and give them hover tanks if they wanted. The issue is that would mean they'd only be able to arm a tiny fraction of what they currently do. Getting some Tau technology wouldn't change the issue of finite resources.
Lasguns, LRBTs, and all the other gear Guardsmen get isn't the best, but it ensures the job gets done. As opposed to having only a small number of highly equipped but terribly outnumbered soldiers.
The Lasgun and LRBT are actually quite decent vehicles. The lasgun is cheap, very reliable, has decent stopping power, and is simple to operate. The LRBT is also cheap, has good armor, a long range and powerful gun that is both simple to operate and keep running, it runs on just about any combustible liquid, and its an all around reliable vehicle.
It doesn't matter if a Hammerhead is 3 times as good as an LRBT when you can deploy 9 LRBTs for the cost of one Hammerhead.
The Tau make their weapons efficiently enough they can arm every soldier with a rifle superior to the bolter humanity reserves for its elite warriors. They're the only race in the galaxy that is advancing technology- every other race has hits its zenith and is falling backwards. Both make the Tau worthwhile allies that can change the fate of the galaxy.
Numerical superiority didn't work out well on Taros. The Tau captured about as many troops as they themselves deployed in the conflict, iirc.
Sure, they can make their weapons efficiently now. They couldn't if they had to arm trillions upon trillions of people a year.
Yes they are advancing technologically. But they're still very primitive compared to the Imperium and Ad Mech. It would be better to simply use what the Imperium already has more efficiently. Not downgrade for stuff that's flashy, but actually less advanced.
Taros wasn't numerical superiority. Literally in none of the Imperium-Tau conflicts has the Imperium thrown any serious weight at the Tau, because they're insignificant and not worth the effort. If the Tau EVER catch the Imperium's real attention, they'll last maybe a few decades.
This is what the Tau are. The Tau are a small tribe of people who live on a tiny Island in the Caribbean. They happen to have invented a gun that can shoot a half mile with accuracy. The Imperium is the British Empire which spans the globe with the power of their Navy. These pitiful natives have only managed to invent log rafts to travel from island to island. Saying the Tau are what would save the Imperium is like saying these natives have something the British Empire would not only need, but something that they will go extinct without. Believe me, nothing the Tau have is a threat to the Imperium OR the key to saving it.
At Taros, the Tau captured about as many Imperial troops as the Tau fielded in the campaign... and most of the humans escaped (tails between their legs).
A pulse rifle is certainly more advanced than a bolter. The pulse rifle is easier to use, easier to manufacture, hits harder, and has a longer range... and that's what humanity gives to its *elite* warriors as a battle rifle.
Again, that is not an example of true Imperial numerical superiority. If the Imperium ever got serious with the Tau, they'd send more Imperial Guard to take a single planet than the entire population of the Tau empire. The Tau would literally run out of ammo, and the Imperium wouldn't even notice the losses. Taros was a small and pathetic imperial force. What the Tau did is not a notable act, its a mosquito being proud it sucked some blood from a lion.
I disagree that a pulse rifle is "easier" to manufacture. It uses rare and exotic materials. It might be easier for the Tau to make a Pulse rifle than for the Imperium to make a bolter, but when you consider numbers there are almost certainly more bolters than there are Tau. A bolter is a relatively simple weapon, a Pulse Rifle is going to be hideously complex(and thats not a good thing).
The Tau are falling victim to the need to over-engineer everything. One of the things plaguing modern militaries. And something that would destroy any galaxy spanning empire when push comes to shove.
Organise a reunion tour for Emperor and the Primarchs. Imagine the ticket sales!
Seriously though, what could you do? Isn't that the basis of what makes the Imperium so intriguing? Its a slow-motion car crash, a titanic disaster so big it has no true leaders. If the High Lords wanted a billion men to invade Sector X, they could have it organised no problem. If they ordered that all Planetary Governors must wear a new uniform design, there'd probably be some guys who hadn't gotten the memo five hundred years later.
All reforms would have to be cushioned by the reality of Imperial culture and would almost certainly have to be operational not structural. No one is closing the Inquisition or allowing SM chapters to raise 10,000 men.
Maybe efforts to reduce the number of fronts the Imperium has to fight on- a galaxy wide pardon to all Emperor-fearing pirates, arming them as privateers, outsourcing some of the fighting. A moratorium on expansion against xenos - what with the Eye of Terror bulging, we need to kill Abaddon, any aliens civil enough like the Tau we try to organise borders, to others we adopt a defensive posture.
Both of these would only be possible if given in a puritanical context - redemption for pirates and 'rebel' humans, and leaving lesser enemies to one side while we crush the forces of Chaos.
But if you reformed the Administratum what would happen to all those civil servants? It's the thin end of the wedge! If you remove the administratum then you are undermining the whole foundation of government! There will be mass unemployment and this will damage public confidence.
Minister, it is the most courageous thing you have ever done.
(Now how many people here understand the reference?)
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Only just started reading this thread, but you'd do well to last 5 minutes with such wide and in-universe radical changes. The only question would be, who would get to you first, the inquisition or the Ecclesiarchy.
You never allow the opportunity to arise. Remember, if you ever get into a position of power, you always remove the power base of anyone who thinks differently from you. You bring all assets under your own influence, resources, personnel, even other peoples beliefs. Unless, of course, you live in the U.S. If you live in the U.S., you're fine. And frankly, its quite obvious that someone would try to get to you. Planning ahead for that eventuality doesn't even need to be said.
You never allow the opportunity to arise. Remember, if you ever get into a position of power, you always remove the power base of anyone who thinks differently from you. You bring all assets under your own influence, resources, personnel, even other peoples beliefs. Unless, of course, you live in the U.S. If you live in the U.S., you're fine. And frankly, its quite obvious that someone would try to get to you. Planning ahead for that eventuality doesn't even need to be said.
How do you remove the powerbase of a certain group? Most arms of the Imperium are semi-independent. Even if say the Ecclesiarchy agrees to have the Inquisition disbanded, they'd be very wary something similar might be done against them. As such they'd have at least some plans in place how to deal with you, and even if you never did anything to them would expect a slice of the Inquisition's power/contacts/technology/bases etc. That's ignoring groups who might see the Inquisition disbanding as actively bad, or a sign of impending tyranny, which might trigger pre-emptive action against you.
If your goal is simply to rule the Imperium, get the perks, point a few crusades in the right directions, then subtle powerplay is now your day job. But the Imperium is a tower of Jenga blocks - all the semi-independent groups have relationships with one another, if you remove one, the others will react. Half of the rebellions or crises the Imperium has suffered have come from bold leaders tired of the red tape trying to put their personal stamp on the planet/sector/galaxy. The Imperium has plenty of experience in handling would-be autocrats and reform is basically another word for heresy at this point.
I would yell at the "living" primarchs until they wake up/return home. Then I would give them a thorough talking-to about their attitudes, and send them off to get the chaos primarchs.
After giving Magnus a talk, I'd have him separate the daemon primarchs from the warp.
Now, with several primarchs, I'd start up the Great Crusade again (and mass-produce marines).
After what happened to Prospero, do you think he would at all care what you had to say? The other Daemon-Primarchs are in much the same boat. Angron hated the Emperor long before he became Khorne's chosen. Fulgrim? You think Fulgrim is going to give up a life of hedonistic abandon to go faffing about in some neo-Puritanical empire-building exercise?
Easy. The Marines will demand that all future aircraft have a jump-jet version, and thus the IoM will forever sacrifice air superiority to its enemies as all of its fighters will have to be light enough to take off from ski ramps and land vertically, regardless of how it penalizes the non-Marine versions, because they'll STILL be hung up on Guadalcanal 40,000 years later.
Damn... It just got too real in here. Roasted.
One flaw with your hypothesis: Imperial vehicle are already idiotically VTOL.
I would start to protect myself and ensure that my power is real. In the most paranoid way possible before I would consider making any change at all. There are way to many forces in the imperium who don't like change at all.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Next step would be coordinated raids on alien research facilities and the foundation of new non religion based research, new generation power nuclear power, space marines and weapons. My final goal would be to rid the imperium of the Cult mechanicus, and their so called omnisaia.
Jape wrote: How do you remove the powerbase of a certain group? Most arms of the Imperium are semi-independent. Even if say the Ecclesiarchy agrees to have the Inquisition disbanded, they'd be very wary something similar might be done against them. As such they'd have at least some plans in place how to deal with you, and even if you never did anything to them would expect a slice of the Inquisition's power/contacts/technology/bases etc. That's ignoring groups who might see the Inquisition disbanding as actively bad, or a sign of impending tyranny, which might trigger pre-emptive action against you.
If your goal is simply to rule the Imperium, get the perks, point a few crusades in the right directions, then subtle powerplay is now your day job. But the Imperium is a tower of Jenga blocks - all the semi-independent groups have relationships with one another, if you remove one, the others will react. Half of the rebellions or crises the Imperium has suffered have come from bold leaders tired of the red tape trying to put their personal stamp on the planet/sector/galaxy. The Imperium has plenty of experience in handling would-be autocrats and reform is basically another word for heresy at this point.
You recruit help from their opposition, or from someone who you can manipulate into thinking you're on their side. Or from someone you want to ally with. Besides, you've just been given power over all of the imperium, it has to come with some perks, surely? And you don't ask the Ecclesiarchy to agree with the Inquisition being dismantled. You survey and monitor all Inquisition activity, and when you're confident enough, then you bring in Astartes, Assassinorum, and Custodes, and storm all relevant buildings and areas of interest. You do it swiftly, and with as much discretion as possible, which gives you leeway to alleviate fear publicly as much as possible.
And like I said, you stay ahead of the enemy. You don't give them chance to do anything to you. I mean come on, even you could clearly see that the others would want to dispose of you out of fear. Wouldn't you want to do something before they acted? With that thought in mind, you lay the ground work for a campaign in a bid for sole power.
And a Bolter has more than one type of ammunition. You try shooting Pulse Rifles at Tyranids, I'll take Hellfire rounds, thankyouverymuch.
I imagine that's an excellent choice if you're fighting big unarmored monsters in clustered groups and have NO HEAVY SUPPORT...and you happen to be in the 1/10th of Space Marines (at best) with access to the rounds.
All things told, the pulse rifle will be more effective against lightly armored tyranids by virtue of its superior range, superior rate of fire, and superior armor-piercing capability.
If something is so tough that pulse rifles can't touch it (and there's not a large list of tyranids that tough) I'll call in an AX-1-0 to deal with the problem. Tau, unlike Space Marines, can rely on combined arms support... because the Tau are simply better at waging war.
Put a ton of resources into killing him, and Honsou, or someone else, gets a promotion and all his Chaos gifts. Nothing has really changed. Nobody really cares about Abaddon (does anyone in Chaos care about anyone else?), and his death would simply cause a series of promotions, nothing more. No morale collapse, nothing.
The Chaos gods are not known for their ability to get along. They all have interests that work in opposition to each other. It could be that they find a leader quickly... or we get a scenario where the chosen warlords of various Chaos gods war and scheme for control for centuries while the IoM has enough time to crush Gaz, turn back the 'Nids, and hunt Necrons before they wake.... in that order, more than likely.
EmpNortonII wrote: I'd open a dialog with the Ethereals to negotiate some sort of long-term cultural exchange and peace treaty. They need to understand the true dangers of Chaos, and my Imperial Guard needs pulse rifles and hover-tanks to replace the worthless gak they currently use.
Out of curiosity, why?
The Tau are a worthlessly tiny annoyance in one tiny insignificant corner of the Galaxy. Plus, nothing they have is better than what the Imperium already has theoretical access to. The Imperium could arm all their soldiers with power armor, plasma guns, and give them hover tanks if they wanted. The issue is that would mean they'd only be able to arm a tiny fraction of what they currently do. Getting some Tau technology wouldn't change the issue of finite resources.
Lasguns, LRBTs, and all the other gear Guardsmen get isn't the best, but it ensures the job gets done. As opposed to having only a small number of highly equipped but terribly outnumbered soldiers.
The Lasgun and LRBT are actually quite decent vehicles. The lasgun is cheap, very reliable, has decent stopping power, and is simple to operate. The LRBT is also cheap, has good armor, a long range and powerful gun that is both simple to operate and keep running, it runs on just about any combustible liquid, and its an all around reliable vehicle.
It doesn't matter if a Hammerhead is 3 times as good as an LRBT when you can deploy 9 LRBTs for the cost of one Hammerhead.
The Tau make their weapons efficiently enough they can arm every soldier with a rifle superior to the bolter humanity reserves for its elite warriors. They're the only race in the galaxy that is advancing technology- every other race has hits its zenith and is falling backwards. Both make the Tau worthwhile allies that can change the fate of the galaxy.
Numerical superiority didn't work out well on Taros. The Tau captured about as many troops as they themselves deployed in the conflict, iirc.
Sure, they can make their weapons efficiently now. They couldn't if they had to arm trillions upon trillions of people a year.
Yes they are advancing technologically. But they're still very primitive compared to the Imperium and Ad Mech. It would be better to simply use what the Imperium already has more efficiently. Not downgrade for stuff that's flashy, but actually less advanced.
Taros wasn't numerical superiority. Literally in none of the Imperium-Tau conflicts has the Imperium thrown any serious weight at the Tau, because they're insignificant and not worth the effort. If the Tau EVER catch the Imperium's real attention, they'll last maybe a few decades.
This is what the Tau are. The Tau are a small tribe of people who live on a tiny Island in the Caribbean. They happen to have invented a gun that can shoot a half mile with accuracy. The Imperium is the British Empire which spans the globe with the power of their Navy. These pitiful natives have only managed to invent log rafts to travel from island to island. Saying the Tau are what would save the Imperium is like saying these natives have something the British Empire would not only need, but something that they will go extinct without. Believe me, nothing the Tau have is a threat to the Imperium OR the key to saving it.
At Taros, the Tau captured about as many Imperial troops as the Tau fielded in the campaign... and most of the humans escaped (tails between their legs).
A pulse rifle is certainly more advanced than a bolter. The pulse rifle is easier to use, easier to manufacture, hits harder, and has a longer range... and that's what humanity gives to its *elite* warriors as a battle rifle.
The pulse rifle is more advanced, but not more effective or easier to mass produce. The Bolter was specifically designed by the Emperor to be able to take down foes with power close to the Volkite weaponry while still being mass produceable at a scale that would allow the Legions to use them on a galaxy-spanning crusade (which the Volkite weaponry was not). The Bolter has both armour penetration capabilities. On paper, the Pulse Rifle is better. However, in fluff, the Bolter is more effective against anything fleshy. It has the same amount of armour penetration, but it penetrates the opponent's flesh and it explodes inside of it. Whereas, the Pulse Rifle has greater range and jut melts right through the flesh. While Plasma is arguably more effective, it doesn't have the same shock and awe value that the Bolter has, which makes a Bolter more effective against massed targets and pretty much any foe that isn't comprised of unfeeling robots. The Bolter and Pulse Rifle are equally effective, but they were designed for different situations.
Not true. The explosion is weak. The force from a pulse round leaving a body creates a nastier exit wound than the internal explosion of a bolter round.
What we know about the bolter's production is that it's too difficult to make to equip standard troops with. Not so with the pulse rifle.
Easy. The Marines will demand that all future aircraft have a jump-jet version, and thus the IoM will forever sacrifice air superiority to its enemies as all of its fighters will have to be light enough to take off from ski ramps and land vertically, regardless of how it penalizes the non-Marine versions, because they'll STILL be hung up on Guadalcanal 40,000 years later.
Damn... It just got too real in here. Roasted.
One flaw with your hypothesis: Imperial vehicle are already idiotically VTOL.
I expected better from you, Miko. Do I really need to explain this to you?
I would initially contract the overall size of the Imperium to increase the density of the imperium a forces over a smaller area. Once that was done strength could be increased and a new expansion crusade could be launched. In a more controlled manner with specific star systems being captured and fortified before moving to the next.
Probably die really quickly when I attempt to argue semantics such as, "the correct term for the Chaos worshippers is heathen as heretic implies that they are the same religious group as us."
Put a ton of resources into killing him, and Honsou, or someone else, gets a promotion and all his Chaos gifts. Nothing has really changed. Nobody really cares about Abaddon (does anyone in Chaos care about anyone else?), and his death would simply cause a series of promotions, nothing more. No morale collapse, nothing.
The Chaos gods are not known for their ability to get along. They all have interests that work in opposition to each other. It could be that they find a leader quickly... or we get a scenario where the chosen warlords of various Chaos gods war and scheme for control for centuries while the IoM has enough time to crush Gaz, turn back the 'Nids, and hunt Necrons before they wake.... in that order, more than likely.
EmpNortonII wrote: I'd open a dialog with the Ethereals to negotiate some sort of long-term cultural exchange and peace treaty. They need to understand the true dangers of Chaos, and my Imperial Guard needs pulse rifles and hover-tanks to replace the worthless gak they currently use.
Out of curiosity, why?
The Tau are a worthlessly tiny annoyance in one tiny insignificant corner of the Galaxy. Plus, nothing they have is better than what the Imperium already has theoretical access to. The Imperium could arm all their soldiers with power armor, plasma guns, and give them hover tanks if they wanted. The issue is that would mean they'd only be able to arm a tiny fraction of what they currently do. Getting some Tau technology wouldn't change the issue of finite resources.
Lasguns, LRBTs, and all the other gear Guardsmen get isn't the best, but it ensures the job gets done. As opposed to having only a small number of highly equipped but terribly outnumbered soldiers.
The Lasgun and LRBT are actually quite decent vehicles. The lasgun is cheap, very reliable, has decent stopping power, and is simple to operate. The LRBT is also cheap, has good armor, a long range and powerful gun that is both simple to operate and keep running, it runs on just about any combustible liquid, and its an all around reliable vehicle.
It doesn't matter if a Hammerhead is 3 times as good as an LRBT when you can deploy 9 LRBTs for the cost of one Hammerhead.
The Tau make their weapons efficiently enough they can arm every soldier with a rifle superior to the bolter humanity reserves for its elite warriors. They're the only race in the galaxy that is advancing technology- every other race has hits its zenith and is falling backwards. Both make the Tau worthwhile allies that can change the fate of the galaxy.
Numerical superiority didn't work out well on Taros. The Tau captured about as many troops as they themselves deployed in the conflict, iirc.
Sure, they can make their weapons efficiently now. They couldn't if they had to arm trillions upon trillions of people a year.
Yes they are advancing technologically. But they're still very primitive compared to the Imperium and Ad Mech. It would be better to simply use what the Imperium already has more efficiently. Not downgrade for stuff that's flashy, but actually less advanced.
Taros wasn't numerical superiority. Literally in none of the Imperium-Tau conflicts has the Imperium thrown any serious weight at the Tau, because they're insignificant and not worth the effort. If the Tau EVER catch the Imperium's real attention, they'll last maybe a few decades.
This is what the Tau are. The Tau are a small tribe of people who live on a tiny Island in the Caribbean. They happen to have invented a gun that can shoot a half mile with accuracy. The Imperium is the British Empire which spans the globe with the power of their Navy. These pitiful natives have only managed to invent log rafts to travel from island to island. Saying the Tau are what would save the Imperium is like saying these natives have something the British Empire would not only need, but something that they will go extinct without. Believe me, nothing the Tau have is a threat to the Imperium OR the key to saving it.
At Taros, the Tau captured about as many Imperial troops as the Tau fielded in the campaign... and most of the humans escaped (tails between their legs).
A pulse rifle is certainly more advanced than a bolter. The pulse rifle is easier to use, easier to manufacture, hits harder, and has a longer range... and that's what humanity gives to its *elite* warriors as a battle rifle.
The pulse rifle is more advanced, but not more effective or easier to mass produce. The Bolter was specifically designed by the Emperor to be able to take down foes with power close to the Volkite weaponry while still being mass produceable at a scale that would allow the Legions to use them on a galaxy-spanning crusade (which the Volkite weaponry was not). The Bolter has both armour penetration capabilities. On paper, the Pulse Rifle is better. However, in fluff, the Bolter is more effective against anything fleshy. It has the same amount of armour penetration, but it penetrates the opponent's flesh and it explodes inside of it. Whereas, the Pulse Rifle has greater range and jut melts right through the flesh. While Plasma is arguably more effective, it doesn't have the same shock and awe value that the Bolter has, which makes a Bolter more effective against massed targets and pretty much any foe that isn't comprised of unfeeling robots. The Bolter and Pulse Rifle are equally effective, but they were designed for different situations.
Not true. The explosion is weak. The force from a pulse round leaving a body creates a nastier exit wound than the internal explosion of a bolter round.
What we know about the bolter's production is that it's too difficult to make to equip standard troops with. Not so with the pulse rifle.
Exit wound? We are talking about a plasma weapon here, correct? i.e. a weapon that is so hot that it surpasses titanium gas in heat. That's like utilizing an arc weapon (techincally still a plasma weapon if it relies upon ionized gas to direct the energy, but that isn't what the pseudoscience is for Pulse weaponry), and expecting an exit wound; no logic. Bolter makes your face explode and rains brain matter upon your buddies; Pulse rifle just makes it melt. I think that I'd rather watch my friends' eyeballs get melted than have one of them land on my face.
dusara217 wrote: I think that I'd rather watch my friends' eyeballs get melted than have one of them land on my face.
Apples and oranges
So you're saying that seeing something and seeing it in a more horrific manner + feeling it ooze down your face are the same things? If your sister's head melted, that would be just as bad as it exploding and skull fragments being embedded into the wall while brain matter rains down around you and her tongue lands in your hair?
1.Go to the Mechanicus and ask for the Tool that can repair anything (it has a name i just cant remember it), if they say no, atrade deal involving toasters may be involved. Then use said tool to fix the golden throne
2.Put a Text-to-Speech device on the emperor (dont care what you say about the series) so he can rule again
3.hand my power back to the emperor (but not before i legalize the use of xeno tech, and get myself a shiny necrodermis body)
The second thing I would do if cult mechanus is slain is to reduce the power of the navigator families. By starting to produce and improve void abacusses and secretly spread them trough my empire. Once enough ships have been supplied order 66 on the navigators will be executed, and the astronomican can final be shut down. That thing was the worst idea ever.
Again, that is not an example of true Imperial numerical superiority. If the Imperium ever got serious with the Tau, they'd send more Imperial Guard to take a single planet than the entire population of the Tau empire. The Tau would literally run out of ammo, and the Imperium wouldn't even notice the losses. Taros was a small and pathetic imperial force. What the Tau did is not a notable act, its a mosquito being proud it sucked some blood from a lion.
I disagree that a pulse rifle is "easier" to manufacture. It uses rare and exotic materials. It might be easier for the Tau to make a Pulse rifle than for the Imperium to make a bolter, but when you consider numbers there are almost certainly more bolters than there are Tau. A bolter is a relatively simple weapon, a Pulse Rifle is going to be hideously complex(and thats not a good thing).
The Tau are falling victim to the need to over-engineer everything. One of the things plaguing modern militaries. And something that would destroy any galaxy spanning empire when push comes to shove.
To be fair, you're assuming the Tau aren't the planned creation of a greater being (Necrons, Eldar, or Tzeentch) that would come to their aid.
Second, you hit the nail on the head with the Tau over-engineering things. Its like their whole army is the F-35 debacle.
Spoiler:
That said, it's a damn sight better than the Imperiums motto of "The world is Emperor Magic" when it comes to their tech.
LumenPraebeo wrote: Bring reform to the Administratum, the Imperial Navy, the Imperial Guard, dismantle the Inquisition and bring all its personnel under the responsibility of the Officio Assassinorum. Bring reform to the Officio Assassinorum, and turn it into an general Intelligence branch of the Imperium. Increase Space Marine chapters, begin a 27th Founding. Increase Deathwatch chapter to legion strength, 10,000 strong. Start a propaganda campaign to increase colonization. Especially to worlds in between trade hubs. Initiate research project to find more efficient ways of terraforming, I imagine this will require bringing in knowledge from the Ordo Xenos and the Martian priesthood. Increase propaganda campaign for the celebration of the Emperor and his Primarchs. Remove Ministorum leaders from seats of power. Reverse positions of authority for the Adepta Sororitas, bringing the Ministorum under the watchful eye of the students it graduates. Remove their ships, and make sure the Sororitas work in close tandem with the Navy and Guard. Bring reform to the Arbites, make sure they conform to standard equipment. Lower tithes on planets across the board, but bring the taxes up to standard. No uneven tithes on planets of the same grade. Increase production demands on the Mechanicus and Forge Worlds. Bring reforms to education across the Imperium. Increase ship production. Demand increase in workers. Demand increase in Navigator population. Fix the Golden Throne.
Only just started reading this thread, but you'd do well to last 5 minutes with such wide and in-universe radical changes. The only question would be, who would get to you first, the inquisition or the Ecclesiarchy.
Neither, they'd both be eliminated as my first action. There's a lot of power in meta-awareness. The Grey Knights are gone, too. No Mary Sues in my army!
There's only so much power in meta-awareness. What, would you wave your hand and say "Poof! You're disbanded!"? That's not going to get you anything except a visitation from the Moritat or the Vindicare.
They Grey Knights and Inquisition were created by the Emperor's command. Being in charge of the Imperium is not the same as owning the Imperium. You're simply running it in the Emperor's stead.
If you chose to destroy institutions the Emperor himself personally founded, you'd be guilty of the worst kind of Heresy possible, and dead by the afternoon. Remember, the Inquisition serves the Emperor, and nobody else. Try to disband them, and they'd have the power and the authority to disband you first.
LumenPraebeo wrote: Bring reform to the Administratum, the Imperial Navy, the Imperial Guard, dismantle the Inquisition and bring all its personnel under the responsibility of the Officio Assassinorum. Bring reform to the Officio Assassinorum, and turn it into an general Intelligence branch of the Imperium. Increase Space Marine chapters, begin a 27th Founding. Increase Deathwatch chapter to legion strength, 10,000 strong. Start a propaganda campaign to increase colonization. Especially to worlds in between trade hubs. Initiate research project to find more efficient ways of terraforming, I imagine this will require bringing in knowledge from the Ordo Xenos and the Martian priesthood. Increase propaganda campaign for the celebration of the Emperor and his Primarchs. Remove Ministorum leaders from seats of power. Reverse positions of authority for the Adepta Sororitas, bringing the Ministorum under the watchful eye of the students it graduates. Remove their ships, and make sure the Sororitas work in close tandem with the Navy and Guard. Bring reform to the Arbites, make sure they conform to standard equipment. Lower tithes on planets across the board, but bring the taxes up to standard. No uneven tithes on planets of the same grade. Increase production demands on the Mechanicus and Forge Worlds. Bring reforms to education across the Imperium. Increase ship production. Demand increase in workers. Demand increase in Navigator population. Fix the Golden Throne.
Only just started reading this thread, but you'd do well to last 5 minutes with such wide and in-universe radical changes. The only question would be, who would get to you first, the inquisition or the Ecclesiarchy.
Neither, they'd both be eliminated as my first action. There's a lot of power in meta-awareness. The Grey Knights are gone, too. No Mary Sues in my army!
That's like me saying ,"When I become President of the United States, I'm disbanding the FBI and CIA - no professional law enforcement in my army!
dusara217 wrote: So you're saying that seeing something and seeing it in a more horrific manner + feeling it ooze down your face are the same things? If your sister's head melted, that would be just as bad as it exploding and skull fragments being embedded into the wall while brain matter rains down around you and her tongue lands in your hair?
No, they're both terrible, but at that level of terrible, the reaction to either would almost be indiscernible.
First things first, tone down some the Palace decor, gothic is one thing, excessive Gothic no.
mainly, work on getting the Ad mec to innovate more, or at least bring more new tech in faster as things are gettig darker and 300 years waiting for a STC to clear to is too long.
New weapons are needed. and waiting decades for them is not helping the front lines.
commander dante wrote: 1.Go to the Mechanicus and ask for the Tool that can repair anything (it has a name i just cant remember it)
Duct tape?
SBG wrote: Virus bomb everything. Better safe than sorry.
Then take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Drakeslayer wrote: Minister, it is the most courageous thing you have ever done.
(Now how many people here understand the reference?)
Send a few divisions of Elysium Drop Troopers on a "good will" visit to a few (borderline rebellious) planets. Have a few more divisions ready if they need reinforcements.
Reinforcements of "good will".
Second, you hit the nail on the head with the Tau over-engineering things. Its like their whole army is the F-35 debacle.
Spoiler:
That said, it's a damn sight better than the Imperiums motto of "The world is Emperor Magic" when it comes to their tech.
Bah! Past Forgeworld's goofier and goofier giant suits, the Tau are very practical in their weapons development. They are the only race with a sci-fi A-10, the exact opposite of the F-35. Cheap to produce and built entirely for one purpose that it does better for less resources than anything else in the galaxy- the AX-1-0.
Put a ton of resources into killing him, and Honsou, or someone else, gets a promotion and all his Chaos gifts. Nothing has really changed. Nobody really cares about Abaddon (does anyone in Chaos care about anyone else?), and his death would simply cause a series of promotions, nothing more. No morale collapse, nothing.
The Chaos gods are not known for their ability to get along. They all have interests that work in opposition to each other. It could be that they find a leader quickly... or we get a scenario where the chosen warlords of various Chaos gods war and scheme for control for centuries while the IoM has enough time to crush Gaz, turn back the 'Nids, and hunt Necrons before they wake.... in that order, more than likely.
EmpNortonII wrote: I'd open a dialog with the Ethereals to negotiate some sort of long-term cultural exchange and peace treaty. They need to understand the true dangers of Chaos, and my Imperial Guard needs pulse rifles and hover-tanks to replace the worthless gak they currently use.
Out of curiosity, why?
The Tau are a worthlessly tiny annoyance in one tiny insignificant corner of the Galaxy. Plus, nothing they have is better than what the Imperium already has theoretical access to. The Imperium could arm all their soldiers with power armor, plasma guns, and give them hover tanks if they wanted. The issue is that would mean they'd only be able to arm a tiny fraction of what they currently do. Getting some Tau technology wouldn't change the issue of finite resources.
Lasguns, LRBTs, and all the other gear Guardsmen get isn't the best, but it ensures the job gets done. As opposed to having only a small number of highly equipped but terribly outnumbered soldiers.
The Lasgun and LRBT are actually quite decent vehicles. The lasgun is cheap, very reliable, has decent stopping power, and is simple to operate. The LRBT is also cheap, has good armor, a long range and powerful gun that is both simple to operate and keep running, it runs on just about any combustible liquid, and its an all around reliable vehicle.
It doesn't matter if a Hammerhead is 3 times as good as an LRBT when you can deploy 9 LRBTs for the cost of one Hammerhead.
The Tau make their weapons efficiently enough they can arm every soldier with a rifle superior to the bolter humanity reserves for its elite warriors. They're the only race in the galaxy that is advancing technology- every other race has hits its zenith and is falling backwards. Both make the Tau worthwhile allies that can change the fate of the galaxy.
Numerical superiority didn't work out well on Taros. The Tau captured about as many troops as they themselves deployed in the conflict, iirc.
Sure, they can make their weapons efficiently now. They couldn't if they had to arm trillions upon trillions of people a year.
Yes they are advancing technologically. But they're still very primitive compared to the Imperium and Ad Mech. It would be better to simply use what the Imperium already has more efficiently. Not downgrade for stuff that's flashy, but actually less advanced.
Taros wasn't numerical superiority. Literally in none of the Imperium-Tau conflicts has the Imperium thrown any serious weight at the Tau, because they're insignificant and not worth the effort. If the Tau EVER catch the Imperium's real attention, they'll last maybe a few decades.
This is what the Tau are. The Tau are a small tribe of people who live on a tiny Island in the Caribbean. They happen to have invented a gun that can shoot a half mile with accuracy. The Imperium is the British Empire which spans the globe with the power of their Navy. These pitiful natives have only managed to invent log rafts to travel from island to island. Saying the Tau are what would save the Imperium is like saying these natives have something the British Empire would not only need, but something that they will go extinct without. Believe me, nothing the Tau have is a threat to the Imperium OR the key to saving it.
At Taros, the Tau captured about as many Imperial troops as the Tau fielded in the campaign... and most of the humans escaped (tails between their legs).
A pulse rifle is certainly more advanced than a bolter. The pulse rifle is easier to use, easier to manufacture, hits harder, and has a longer range... and that's what humanity gives to its *elite* warriors as a battle rifle.
The pulse rifle is more advanced, but not more effective or easier to mass produce. The Bolter was specifically designed by the Emperor to be able to take down foes with power close to the Volkite weaponry while still being mass produceable at a scale that would allow the Legions to use them on a galaxy-spanning crusade (which the Volkite weaponry was not). The Bolter has both armour penetration capabilities. On paper, the Pulse Rifle is better. However, in fluff, the Bolter is more effective against anything fleshy. It has the same amount of armour penetration, but it penetrates the opponent's flesh and it explodes inside of it. Whereas, the Pulse Rifle has greater range and jut melts right through the flesh. While Plasma is arguably more effective, it doesn't have the same shock and awe value that the Bolter has, which makes a Bolter more effective against massed targets and pretty much any foe that isn't comprised of unfeeling robots. The Bolter and Pulse Rifle are equally effective, but they were designed for different situations.
Not true. The explosion is weak. The force from a pulse round leaving a body creates a nastier exit wound than the internal explosion of a bolter round.
What we know about the bolter's production is that it's too difficult to make to equip standard troops with. Not so with the pulse rifle.
Exit wound? We are talking about a plasma weapon here, correct? i.e. a weapon that is so hot that it surpasses titanium gas in heat. That's like utilizing an arc weapon (techincally still a plasma weapon if it relies upon ionized gas to direct the energy, but that isn't what the pseudoscience is for Pulse weaponry), and expecting an exit wound; no logic. Bolter makes your face explode and rains brain matter upon your buddies; Pulse rifle just makes it melt. I think that I'd rather watch my friends' eyeballs get melted than have one of them land on my face.
I'm pretty sure that a HEAT round's ionized copper stream would create an exit wound if, ya know, the detonation of the actual round would leave anything afterward to look at.
Regardless, since I don't think any books have compared a bolter to a pulse rifle from a fluffy perspective, what we're left with is mechanics- Str 5 30" vs Str 4 24".
Even if one were to theoretically obtain a position senior to the High Lords of Terra, there is remarkably little one individual could do to change the course of the imperium or even set a policy that would be adopted by the majority of the imperium with their lifespan.
Robbert Ambrose wrote: Even if one were to theoretically obtain a position senior to the High Lords of Terra, there is remarkably little one individual could do to change the course of the imperium or even set a policy that would be adopted by the majority of the imperium with their lifespan.
And that leads to another point. By the time you do, you'll likely be hundreds of years old, with your mind stuck on "can't get anything done, too much paperwork" mode ever since ascending to the rank of High Lord. As an In-Character thing, I'd most likely be sitting around abusing my level of power by getting slaves to do things for me.
Maybe make someone invent a personal void-shield. In case of assassins.
LumenPraebeo wrote: You recruit help from their opposition, or from someone who you can manipulate into thinking you're on their side. Or from someone you want to ally with. Besides, you've just been given power over all of the imperium, it has to come with some perks, surely? And you don't ask the Ecclesiarchy to agree with the Inquisition being dismantled. You survey and monitor all Inquisition activity, and when you're confident enough, then you bring in Astartes, Assassinorum, and Custodes, and storm all relevant buildings and areas of interest. You do it swiftly, and with as much discretion as possible, which gives you leeway to alleviate fear publicly as much as possible.
Perks and getting your way all the time are not the same thing. Your 'strategy' is basically a list of good outcomes. There's no way you could organise such a vast conspiracy without the Inquisition - the Imperium's professional conspirators- noticing. Not that you wouldn't have sympathetic people but the insane fall out from destroying such a major organisation means even many of them might put a bullet in your brain simply for suggesting the idea. A degenerating status quo is literally the religion of the Imperium and as I said before is reinforced by examples from Vandire to Huron that a singular-minded Great Man is often more trouble than he's worth from their POV.
And like I said, you stay ahead of the enemy. You don't give them chance to do anything to you. I mean come on, even you could clearly see that the others would want to dispose of you out of fear. Wouldn't you want to do something before they acted? With that thought in mind, you lay the ground work for a campaign in a bid for sole power.
Obviously, high politics, powerplay etc. However keeping your position in a Game of Thrones esque manner against rival High Lords or whoever isn't the same as upending the system millions of powerful people (and trillions of others) rely on. Its why I made the distinction between operational and systemic reform. Redirect a crusade or whatever, fine as long as it works- may have to deal with a rival High Lord capitalising on its failure etc. But fiddling with the actual workings of the Imperium is entirely different. At that point "staying ahead" of your enemies isn't an issue, because its now a "Bring Me the Head of Lumen Praebeo" scenario.
Basically you seem to be coming at this like a Frank Underwood however his goal was power within the system, not tearing the system down.
If something dramatic happened, like the whole Eastern Fringe going dark because of Super Hivefleet Gigantus, there might be enough pressure to force a rethink but I think the current Imperium is secure enough that complacency is acceptable to most. Within the Holy Terra bubble there has to be a blood good reason for people to go along with your radical ideas.
LumenPraebeo wrote: I don't think so. I think there will be just as many people fighting for me as going against me. And I think I may have a chance of winning.
After "Horus Heresy pt.2: The Praebo wars", you'll probably wish you hadn't gone for it.
Send a few divisions of Elysium Drop Troopers on a "good will" visit to a few (borderline rebellious) planets. Have a few more divisions ready if they need reinforcements.
Reinforcements of "good will".
Send a few divisions of Elysium Drop Troopers on a "good will" visit to a few (borderline rebellious) planets. Have a few more divisions ready if they need reinforcements.
Reinforcements of "good will".
This guy gets it.
if they get too rebellious, offer to invite the space sharks for a party.
The policy of "get the Church, the Space Marines and the Assassins" on my side argument is a little, shall we say, naive.
What happens if one aspect of those vastly complex, geographically spread out and politically divided organisations decide not to go with you? Then you're likely finished. All it takes is on person to inform the Inquisiton, who will have your head by the end of the week. They'll likely already have about a dozen such contingency plans for something like this, all ready to go. Their loyalty is to the Emperor, not the High Lords, and it'd be negligent of them not to have such a plan.
And this is disregarding the ultimate contingency - a Custodes pops out of secret door in your beadroom one day, that you didn't know existed, and hasn't been opened in 10,000 years, and impales you on a power spear.
Hierophant wrote: And this is disregarding the ultimate contingency - a Custodes pops out of secret door in your beadroom one day, that you didn't know existed, and hasn't been opened in 10,000 years, and impales you on a power spear.
Hierophant wrote: And this is disregarding the ultimate contingency - a Custodes pops out of secret door in your beadroom one day, that you didn't know existed, and hasn't been opened in 10,000 years, and impales you on a power spear.
Hierophant wrote: And this is disregarding the ultimate contingency - a Custodes pops out of secret door in your beadroom one day, that you didn't know existed, and hasn't been opened in 10,000 years, and impales you on a power spear.
Official cause of death: slipped down the stairs.
The Supremely Glorious and Grand Kaiba agrees,
most definitely pushed by a Space Wolf spy
And so, it began; The Horus Heresy pt.3: War of the Russian Furries.
Hierophant wrote: And this is disregarding the ultimate contingency - a Custodes pops out of secret door in your beadroom one day, that you didn't know existed, and hasn't been opened in 10,000 years, and impales you on a power spear.
Official cause of death: slipped down the stairs.
Nah...
"Cause of death: Failure to protect neck. Also, the record indicates that the body had been wrecked, possibly as a result of failing to check himself."
Hierophant wrote: And this is disregarding the ultimate contingency - a Custodes pops out of secret door in your beadroom one day, that you didn't know existed, and hasn't been opened in 10,000 years, and impales you on a power spear.
Official cause of death: slipped down the stairs.
Nah...
"Cause of death: Failure to protect neck. Also, the record indicates that the body had been wrecked, possibly as a result of failing to check himself."
Hierophant wrote: And this is disregarding the ultimate contingency - a Custodes pops out of secret door in your beadroom one day, that you didn't know existed, and hasn't been opened in 10,000 years, and impales you on a power spear.
Official cause of death: slipped down the stairs.
Nah...
"Cause of death: Failure to protect neck. Also, the record indicates that the body had been wrecked, possibly as a result of failing to check himself."
LumenPraebeo wrote: I don't think so. I think there will be just as many people fighting for me as going against me. And I think I may have a chance of winning.
You know, except for the screaming quintillions screaming "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!!!" you might be half right. But, alas, Chaos, Necrons, Tyranids, Tau, and half a million pocket empires would anally rape the Imperium and nuke the remains if a civil war of that magnitude were to occur. The Heresy was different, the IoM had just exterminated every major threat for 2 million lightyears around, whereas, now, there are major threats everywhere you look.
1. Have my arms and skull replaced with bionics and adamantium plating respectfully.
2. Tattoo all my skin green.
3. Gather as much teeth as possible.
4. Bribe local Orks to join my warband.
5. Hold an arm wrestling contest and/or headbutting challenge to convince those who will inevitably call me too weedy to lead a warband.
6. Start a Waaaaagh.
7. Prosper.
Assassins or Inquisitors can only kill you if you have a body.
If you've uploaded your mind into one of those planet-sized battle stations the Adeptus Mechanicus still makes, there's not much they can do to touch you. Rather die from so many simultaneous lance volleys that they'd make a space marine go blind for a year.
A lot of answers in this topic do kind of all come to the same point - nobody is actually in charge of the Imperium.
It's like a gigantic oil tanker that's out of control, with too much momentum for anyone to change its path. There's so many different power bases that have checks and balances on each other that the only things the person that's nominally in control of day-to-day affairs (the Master of the Administratum) can do are very minor policy adjustments, some hiring and firing, and the launching of crusades (manpower permitting).
The Inquisition, the Custodes, and the Astartes, all answer to nobody but the Emperor. As does nominally the Ecclesiarchy (which in practice it's just an excuse to make sure they only answer to themselves) On top of that, you have the Assassinorum, who are regulated by the Inquisition, and require a 2/3rds vote from all the High Lords before they can be used.
Lastly, as Goge Vandire demonstrated, the person in charge of the Imperium is not necessarily the person with the most power. While they don't have the authority to exercise it without being declared a heretic and causing a civil war, the Ecclesiarch actually holds far more powerful than the Master of the Administratum due to the sway he has on the faithful.
So... the real answer to the question is... absolutely nothing. The Imperium is far too big and far too byzantine and far too inertia filled, with power far too distributed, for the person in charge to have any real influence. You couldn't even reliably start a civil war to try to change that state of affairs unless you were the Ecclesiarch, but he isn't in charge of the Imperium, and you'd likely not live long afterwards.
Since the Imperium is too large to truly control I would :
Draw 1,000,000 IG from every planet in the Imperium. I would double the number of SM. I would have every forge world build and deliver a titan legion. Every major planet would build ship yards to produce new fleets. The new fleets would transport this new force. I would then use this force to clear out the xenos closest to Terra. I would keep building this force every decade until there was no more Xenos in the Imperium. Once the Xenos are cleared out, Creat Crusade MK2 begins.
Javin wrote: Since the Imperium is too large to truly control I would :
Draw 1,000,000 IG from every planet in the Imperium. I would double the number of SM. I would have every forge world build and deliver a titan legion. Every major planet would build ship yards to produce new fleets. The new fleets would transport this new force. I would then use this force to clear out the xenos closest to Terra. I would keep building this force every decade until there was no more Xenos in the Imperium. Once the Xenos are cleared out, Creat Crusade MK2 begins.
You just described the Great Crusade in detail. Are you sure you don't mean Great Crusade MK3? Because the first 3 quarters of what you said was a Great Crusade in and of itself.
Javin wrote: Since the Imperium is too large to truly control I would :
Draw 1,000,000 IG from every planet in the Imperium. I would double the number of SM. I would have every forge world build and deliver a titan legion. Every major planet would build ship yards to produce new fleets. The new fleets would transport this new force. I would then use this force to clear out the xenos closest to Terra. I would keep building this force every decade until there was no more Xenos in the Imperium. Once the Xenos are cleared out, Creat Crusade MK2 begins.
Two problems here;
1) This is assuming that the Imperium isn't already close to peak capacity with all the current threats around. Sure, they could convert totally to a war economy, but that isn't sustainable in the long term.
2) With a Great Crusade Mk2, how are you going to prevent the inevitable Heresy Mk2? Once you create such powerful armadas, you also create ambitious generals, and targets for corruption. Once the Xenos are gone (and you forget that the likes of the Eldar and Necrons would not go quietly, and have incredible doomsday tech) you're left with an Empire ripe for Chaos to tear apart.
IMO aliens are not the threat (the Tyranids and Necrons are still unproven as existential threats) The threat that humanity poses to itself is.
But I dont care about the emperor or heresy or any of that crap. Ill kill all the vindicares if I have to. Im going full mengsk here. Because the emperium is stupid. Im more than willing to purge out a few trillion zealots. And any puny marine chapters that get in the way.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Psienesis wrote: There's only so much power in meta-awareness. What, would you wave your hand and say "Poof! You're disbanded!"? That's not going to get you anything except a visitation from the Moritat or the Vindicare.
Not disbanded. Eliminated. There is great power in zero feths given.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hierophant wrote: They Grey Knights and Inquisition were created by the Emperor's command. Being in charge of the Imperium is not the same as owning the Imperium. You're simply running it in the Emperor's stead.
If you chose to destroy institutions the Emperor himself personally founded, you'd be guilty of the worst kind of Heresy possible, and dead by the afternoon. Remember, the Inquisition serves the Emperor, and nobody else. Try to disband them, and they'd have the power and the authority to disband you first.
Dont give a feth about the emperor. Hes a dead loser.
Dont give a feth about the emperor. Hes a dead loser.
Said the Blood Angel. Its like you get more cynical with every post
Ad Hominem aside, not caring about the Emperor is not going to prevent you from being murdered by a Custodes.
Until I kill all of them as well. As I said, full Mengsk. Any planets that resist, I'll build a Tyranid summoning device and just have the Hive Fleets do my work for me. That's the kind of leadership the Imperium deserves.
Just because I play Blood Angels, doesn't mean they wouldn't be better off working for someone else. Not named "Incredibly stupid Imperium run by know-nothings that don't believe in science".
And with what army are you going to do all this killing of powerful organizations in the Imperium?
Who is going to build this "Tyranid Summoning Device" for you?
The AdMech absolutely believe in science, and they know that Human Science reached a pinnacle of near-utopian perfection over 10,000 years ago, which is why they're trying to get back to that state without repeating the same mistakes as before that nearly wiped Humanity out.
Me? I'd just go off and start my own Imperium, with hookers and blackjack.
Martel732 wrote: Until I kill all of them as well. As I said, full Mengsk. Any planets that resist, I'll build a Tyranid summoning device and just have the Hive Fleets do my work for me. That's the kind of leadership the Imperium deserves.
Just because I play Blood Angels, doesn't mean they wouldn't be better off working for someone else. Not named "Incredibly stupid Imperium run by know-nothings that don't believe in science".
And just how do you intend to achieve these things? How are you going to kill the Custodes? Magic?
The Inquisition won't do it. The Space Marines won't do it. The Assassins won't do it - none are under your direct control. And that's not even considering whether they could do it, when you understand that the Custodes essentially run the Imperial Palace - the most heavilly fortified location in the Galaxy, and your home.
Your only chance would be to leave the planet and start a civil war, with the only forces you have direct control over - The Imperial Guard and Navy - ordered to attack Holy Terra. Neither of which is likely to obey such an order considering 1) it's suicide, b) it makes no sense, and c) the Imperial Cult would certainly side against you and order them all to lay down their arms.
I also like how you attack the Imperium for knowing nothing about science when your plan partially revolves around "building a Tyranid summoning device" to attack loyal planets... If such a device existed, then your plan to restore the Imperium would be much better using such magical devices to send them all directly into the Eye of Terror.
The best thing about your post though is that it shows how and why tyrants and incompetent rulers still exist and still try to enact their plans, despite them being self-defeating and doomed to failure. It's not poor writing - people like that actually exist. They just genuinely don't recognise how bad their plans are.
It's called lampshading how bad the Imperium is. As I said, it's the leadership the Imperium deserves.
That being said, you don't get in charge without having your own people somewhere. There's a lot of factions within the Imperium that humanity would be better off without. At least from my understanding of the fluff. My first job would be to get rid of those factions entirely, no matter the cost.
As far as I can tell, Chaos deserves the win over the Imperium.
"The AdMech absolutely believe in science, and they know that Human Science reached a pinnacle of near-utopian perfection over 10,000 years ago, which is why they're trying to get back to that state without repeating the same mistakes as before that nearly wiped Humanity out. "
They are failing miserably. In this genre, humanity deserves to be wiped out. Because they are dumb.
There's nothing dumb at all about the Imperium. They're like water flowing down a series of rocks, following the optimal path. The Imperium is in such a state because the Galaxy is in such a state, and their current organisation is simply close to the optimal method of survival for them. They've actually evolved into a pretty efficient society in terms of survival. That's why they're currently the top dog.
Even the anti-science elements make sense. AI almost destroyed the species once, so they do everything they can to avoid making the same mistakes again. This expressed itself as a religion, which while having the unfortunate nature of stagnating associated sciences, provided a valuable bullwark against Chaos.
If you want to know stupid though, you only need to look at Chaos for the most self-defeating, idiotic faction around. The four Gods are constantly bickering and undermining each other, and are guided by nothing other than opetty, base, short-term desires when they aren't. The mortal followers are a mixture of the stupid, the greedy and the gullible, who have achieved pretty much nothing in 10,000 years, other than Failbaddon shouting "just as planned!!!" at himself in order to deflect attention from his many failures.
Being stupid doesn't mean you deserve to die, but if it did, then Chaos would be first on the chopping block.
I'd sever all ties with the Ad Mech and imbrace AI as the Tau have. Sure that would run the risk of a second war with the machines, but that's a risk worth taking. As for how the Imperial forces will be able to kill off all the titans (before building new ones of course), I guess we'd get alot of Tech-marines and other trusted visitors to do an Order 66 on the titan's crew along with other methods of sabotage such as "transportation accidents".
TheCustomLime wrote: Organize a massive Crusade into the Tau Empire. I don't care if it dooms the Imperium. If the Imperium is going to die we are taking a xenos race with us and the Tau are the easiest target to stamp out.
Its superior. 
(Don't get triggered folks, there is an obvious refrence in there.)
