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2015/09/20 15:47:46
Subject: Re:If you were in charge of the imperium, what would you do?
Put a ton of resources into killing him, and Honsou, or someone else, gets a promotion and all his Chaos gifts. Nothing has really changed. Nobody really cares about Abaddon (does anyone in Chaos care about anyone else?), and his death would simply cause a series of promotions, nothing more. No morale collapse, nothing.
The Chaos gods are not known for their ability to get along. They all have interests that work in opposition to each other. It could be that they find a leader quickly... or we get a scenario where the chosen warlords of various Chaos gods war and scheme for control for centuries while the IoM has enough time to crush Gaz, turn back the 'Nids, and hunt Necrons before they wake.... in that order, more than likely.
EmpNortonII wrote: I'd open a dialog with the Ethereals to negotiate some sort of long-term cultural exchange and peace treaty. They need to understand the true dangers of Chaos, and my Imperial Guard needs pulse rifles and hover-tanks to replace the worthless gak they currently use.
Out of curiosity, why?
The Tau are a worthlessly tiny annoyance in one tiny insignificant corner of the Galaxy. Plus, nothing they have is better than what the Imperium already has theoretical access to. The Imperium could arm all their soldiers with power armor, plasma guns, and give them hover tanks if they wanted. The issue is that would mean they'd only be able to arm a tiny fraction of what they currently do. Getting some Tau technology wouldn't change the issue of finite resources.
Lasguns, LRBTs, and all the other gear Guardsmen get isn't the best, but it ensures the job gets done. As opposed to having only a small number of highly equipped but terribly outnumbered soldiers.
The Lasgun and LRBT are actually quite decent vehicles. The lasgun is cheap, very reliable, has decent stopping power, and is simple to operate. The LRBT is also cheap, has good armor, a long range and powerful gun that is both simple to operate and keep running, it runs on just about any combustible liquid, and its an all around reliable vehicle.
It doesn't matter if a Hammerhead is 3 times as good as an LRBT when you can deploy 9 LRBTs for the cost of one Hammerhead.
The Tau make their weapons efficiently enough they can arm every soldier with a rifle superior to the bolter humanity reserves for its elite warriors. They're the only race in the galaxy that is advancing technology- every other race has hits its zenith and is falling backwards. Both make the Tau worthwhile allies that can change the fate of the galaxy.
Numerical superiority didn't work out well on Taros. The Tau captured about as many troops as they themselves deployed in the conflict, iirc.
Sure, they can make their weapons efficiently now. They couldn't if they had to arm trillions upon trillions of people a year.
Yes they are advancing technologically. But they're still very primitive compared to the Imperium and Ad Mech. It would be better to simply use what the Imperium already has more efficiently. Not downgrade for stuff that's flashy, but actually less advanced.
Taros wasn't numerical superiority. Literally in none of the Imperium-Tau conflicts has the Imperium thrown any serious weight at the Tau, because they're insignificant and not worth the effort. If the Tau EVER catch the Imperium's real attention, they'll last maybe a few decades.
This is what the Tau are. The Tau are a small tribe of people who live on a tiny Island in the Caribbean. They happen to have invented a gun that can shoot a half mile with accuracy. The Imperium is the British Empire which spans the globe with the power of their Navy. These pitiful natives have only managed to invent log rafts to travel from island to island. Saying the Tau are what would save the Imperium is like saying these natives have something the British Empire would not only need, but something that they will go extinct without. Believe me, nothing the Tau have is a threat to the Imperium OR the key to saving it.
At Taros, the Tau captured about as many Imperial troops as the Tau fielded in the campaign... and most of the humans escaped (tails between their legs).
A pulse rifle is certainly more advanced than a bolter. The pulse rifle is easier to use, easier to manufacture, hits harder, and has a longer range... and that's what humanity gives to its *elite* warriors as a battle rifle.
The pulse rifle is more advanced, but not more effective or easier to mass produce. The Bolter was specifically designed by the Emperor to be able to take down foes with power close to the Volkite weaponry while still being mass produceable at a scale that would allow the Legions to use them on a galaxy-spanning crusade (which the Volkite weaponry was not). The Bolter has both armour penetration capabilities. On paper, the Pulse Rifle is better. However, in fluff, the Bolter is more effective against anything fleshy. It has the same amount of armour penetration, but it penetrates the opponent's flesh and it explodes inside of it. Whereas, the Pulse Rifle has greater range and jut melts right through the flesh. While Plasma is arguably more effective, it doesn't have the same shock and awe value that the Bolter has, which makes a Bolter more effective against massed targets and pretty much any foe that isn't comprised of unfeeling robots. The Bolter and Pulse Rifle are equally effective, but they were designed for different situations.
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote: There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
We must all join the Kroot-startes...
2015/09/20 15:54:50
Subject: Re:If you were in charge of the imperium, what would you do?
Put a ton of resources into killing him, and Honsou, or someone else, gets a promotion and all his Chaos gifts. Nothing has really changed. Nobody really cares about Abaddon (does anyone in Chaos care about anyone else?), and his death would simply cause a series of promotions, nothing more. No morale collapse, nothing.
The Chaos gods are not known for their ability to get along. They all have interests that work in opposition to each other. It could be that they find a leader quickly... or we get a scenario where the chosen warlords of various Chaos gods war and scheme for control for centuries while the IoM has enough time to crush Gaz, turn back the 'Nids, and hunt Necrons before they wake.... in that order, more than likely.
EmpNortonII wrote: I'd open a dialog with the Ethereals to negotiate some sort of long-term cultural exchange and peace treaty. They need to understand the true dangers of Chaos, and my Imperial Guard needs pulse rifles and hover-tanks to replace the worthless gak they currently use.
Out of curiosity, why?
The Tau are a worthlessly tiny annoyance in one tiny insignificant corner of the Galaxy. Plus, nothing they have is better than what the Imperium already has theoretical access to. The Imperium could arm all their soldiers with power armor, plasma guns, and give them hover tanks if they wanted. The issue is that would mean they'd only be able to arm a tiny fraction of what they currently do. Getting some Tau technology wouldn't change the issue of finite resources.
Lasguns, LRBTs, and all the other gear Guardsmen get isn't the best, but it ensures the job gets done. As opposed to having only a small number of highly equipped but terribly outnumbered soldiers.
The Lasgun and LRBT are actually quite decent vehicles. The lasgun is cheap, very reliable, has decent stopping power, and is simple to operate. The LRBT is also cheap, has good armor, a long range and powerful gun that is both simple to operate and keep running, it runs on just about any combustible liquid, and its an all around reliable vehicle.
It doesn't matter if a Hammerhead is 3 times as good as an LRBT when you can deploy 9 LRBTs for the cost of one Hammerhead.
The Tau make their weapons efficiently enough they can arm every soldier with a rifle superior to the bolter humanity reserves for its elite warriors. They're the only race in the galaxy that is advancing technology- every other race has hits its zenith and is falling backwards. Both make the Tau worthwhile allies that can change the fate of the galaxy.
Numerical superiority didn't work out well on Taros. The Tau captured about as many troops as they themselves deployed in the conflict, iirc.
Sure, they can make their weapons efficiently now. They couldn't if they had to arm trillions upon trillions of people a year.
Yes they are advancing technologically. But they're still very primitive compared to the Imperium and Ad Mech. It would be better to simply use what the Imperium already has more efficiently. Not downgrade for stuff that's flashy, but actually less advanced.
Taros wasn't numerical superiority. Literally in none of the Imperium-Tau conflicts has the Imperium thrown any serious weight at the Tau, because they're insignificant and not worth the effort. If the Tau EVER catch the Imperium's real attention, they'll last maybe a few decades.
This is what the Tau are. The Tau are a small tribe of people who live on a tiny Island in the Caribbean. They happen to have invented a gun that can shoot a half mile with accuracy. The Imperium is the British Empire which spans the globe with the power of their Navy. These pitiful natives have only managed to invent log rafts to travel from island to island. Saying the Tau are what would save the Imperium is like saying these natives have something the British Empire would not only need, but something that they will go extinct without. Believe me, nothing the Tau have is a threat to the Imperium OR the key to saving it.
At Taros, the Tau captured about as many Imperial troops as the Tau fielded in the campaign... and most of the humans escaped (tails between their legs).
A pulse rifle is certainly more advanced than a bolter. The pulse rifle is easier to use, easier to manufacture, hits harder, and has a longer range... and that's what humanity gives to its *elite* warriors as a battle rifle.
Again, that is not an example of true Imperial numerical superiority. If the Imperium ever got serious with the Tau, they'd send more Imperial Guard to take a single planet than the entire population of the Tau empire. The Tau would literally run out of ammo, and the Imperium wouldn't even notice the losses. Taros was a small and pathetic imperial force. What the Tau did is not a notable act, its a mosquito being proud it sucked some blood from a lion.
I disagree that a pulse rifle is "easier" to manufacture. It uses rare and exotic materials. It might be easier for the Tau to make a Pulse rifle than for the Imperium to make a bolter, but when you consider numbers there are almost certainly more bolters than there are Tau. A bolter is a relatively simple weapon, a Pulse Rifle is going to be hideously complex(and thats not a good thing).
The Tau are falling victim to the need to over-engineer everything. One of the things plaguing modern militaries. And something that would destroy any galaxy spanning empire when push comes to shove.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Organise a reunion tour for Emperor and the Primarchs. Imagine the ticket sales!
Seriously though, what could you do? Isn't that the basis of what makes the Imperium so intriguing? Its a slow-motion car crash, a titanic disaster so big it has no true leaders. If the High Lords wanted a billion men to invade Sector X, they could have it organised no problem. If they ordered that all Planetary Governors must wear a new uniform design, there'd probably be some guys who hadn't gotten the memo five hundred years later.
All reforms would have to be cushioned by the reality of Imperial culture and would almost certainly have to be operational not structural. No one is closing the Inquisition or allowing SM chapters to raise 10,000 men.
Maybe efforts to reduce the number of fronts the Imperium has to fight on- a galaxy wide pardon to all Emperor-fearing pirates, arming them as privateers, outsourcing some of the fighting. A moratorium on expansion against xenos - what with the Eye of Terror bulging, we need to kill Abaddon, any aliens civil enough like the Tau we try to organise borders, to others we adopt a defensive posture.
Both of these would only be possible if given in a puritanical context - redemption for pirates and 'rebel' humans, and leaving lesser enemies to one side while we crush the forces of Chaos.
Oh What a Lovely War.
2015/09/22 16:06:40
Subject: Re:If you were in charge of the imperium, what would you do?
But if you reformed the Administratum what would happen to all those civil servants? It's the thin end of the wedge! If you remove the administratum then you are undermining the whole foundation of government! There will be mass unemployment and this will damage public confidence.
Minister, it is the most courageous thing you have ever done.
(Now how many people here understand the reference?)
Do you know what your sin is, Malcolm Reynolds?
Ah hell, I'm a fan of all seven.
But right now, I'm gonna have to go with wrath.
2015/09/23 20:28:14
Subject: If you were in charge of the imperium, what would you do?
endlesswaltz123 wrote: Only just started reading this thread, but you'd do well to last 5 minutes with such wide and in-universe radical changes. The only question would be, who would get to you first, the inquisition or the Ecclesiarchy.
You never allow the opportunity to arise. Remember, if you ever get into a position of power, you always remove the power base of anyone who thinks differently from you. You bring all assets under your own influence, resources, personnel, even other peoples beliefs. Unless, of course, you live in the U.S. If you live in the U.S., you're fine. And frankly, its quite obvious that someone would try to get to you. Planning ahead for that eventuality doesn't even need to be said.
I will forever remain humble because I know I could have less.
I will always be grateful because I remember I've had less.
2015/09/24 11:31:42
Subject: Re:If you were in charge of the imperium, what would you do?
You never allow the opportunity to arise. Remember, if you ever get into a position of power, you always remove the power base of anyone who thinks differently from you. You bring all assets under your own influence, resources, personnel, even other peoples beliefs. Unless, of course, you live in the U.S. If you live in the U.S., you're fine. And frankly, its quite obvious that someone would try to get to you. Planning ahead for that eventuality doesn't even need to be said.
How do you remove the powerbase of a certain group? Most arms of the Imperium are semi-independent. Even if say the Ecclesiarchy agrees to have the Inquisition disbanded, they'd be very wary something similar might be done against them. As such they'd have at least some plans in place how to deal with you, and even if you never did anything to them would expect a slice of the Inquisition's power/contacts/technology/bases etc. That's ignoring groups who might see the Inquisition disbanding as actively bad, or a sign of impending tyranny, which might trigger pre-emptive action against you.
If your goal is simply to rule the Imperium, get the perks, point a few crusades in the right directions, then subtle powerplay is now your day job. But the Imperium is a tower of Jenga blocks - all the semi-independent groups have relationships with one another, if you remove one, the others will react. Half of the rebellions or crises the Imperium has suffered have come from bold leaders tired of the red tape trying to put their personal stamp on the planet/sector/galaxy. The Imperium has plenty of experience in handling would-be autocrats and reform is basically another word for heresy at this point.
Oh What a Lovely War.
2015/09/24 11:53:22
Subject: If you were in charge of the imperium, what would you do?
I would yell at the "living" primarchs until they wake up/return home. Then I would give them a thorough talking-to about their attitudes, and send them off to get the chaos primarchs.
After giving Magnus a talk, I'd have him separate the daemon primarchs from the warp.
Now, with several primarchs, I'd start up the Great Crusade again (and mass-produce marines).
2015/09/24 15:59:19
Subject: If you were in charge of the imperium, what would you do?
After what happened to Prospero, do you think he would at all care what you had to say? The other Daemon-Primarchs are in much the same boat. Angron hated the Emperor long before he became Khorne's chosen. Fulgrim? You think Fulgrim is going to give up a life of hedonistic abandon to go faffing about in some neo-Puritanical empire-building exercise?
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
2015/09/24 17:05:51
Subject: If you were in charge of the imperium, what would you do?
Easy. The Marines will demand that all future aircraft have a jump-jet version, and thus the IoM will forever sacrifice air superiority to its enemies as all of its fighters will have to be light enough to take off from ski ramps and land vertically, regardless of how it penalizes the non-Marine versions, because they'll STILL be hung up on Guadalcanal 40,000 years later.
Damn... It just got too real in here. Roasted.
One flaw with your hypothesis: Imperial vehicle are already idiotically VTOL.
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
2015/09/24 18:48:20
Subject: If you were in charge of the imperium, what would you do?
I would start to protect myself and ensure that my power is real. In the most paranoid way possible before I would consider making any change at all. There are way to many forces in the imperium who don't like change at all.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Next step would be coordinated raids on alien research facilities and the foundation of new non religion based research, new generation power nuclear power, space marines and weapons. My final goal would be to rid the imperium of the Cult mechanicus, and their so called omnisaia.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/09/24 18:54:12
Inactive, user. New profile might pop up in a while
2015/09/24 19:40:58
Subject: If you were in charge of the imperium, what would you do?
Jape wrote: How do you remove the powerbase of a certain group? Most arms of the Imperium are semi-independent. Even if say the Ecclesiarchy agrees to have the Inquisition disbanded, they'd be very wary something similar might be done against them. As such they'd have at least some plans in place how to deal with you, and even if you never did anything to them would expect a slice of the Inquisition's power/contacts/technology/bases etc. That's ignoring groups who might see the Inquisition disbanding as actively bad, or a sign of impending tyranny, which might trigger pre-emptive action against you.
If your goal is simply to rule the Imperium, get the perks, point a few crusades in the right directions, then subtle powerplay is now your day job. But the Imperium is a tower of Jenga blocks - all the semi-independent groups have relationships with one another, if you remove one, the others will react. Half of the rebellions or crises the Imperium has suffered have come from bold leaders tired of the red tape trying to put their personal stamp on the planet/sector/galaxy. The Imperium has plenty of experience in handling would-be autocrats and reform is basically another word for heresy at this point.
You recruit help from their opposition, or from someone who you can manipulate into thinking you're on their side. Or from someone you want to ally with. Besides, you've just been given power over all of the imperium, it has to come with some perks, surely? And you don't ask the Ecclesiarchy to agree with the Inquisition being dismantled. You survey and monitor all Inquisition activity, and when you're confident enough, then you bring in Astartes, Assassinorum, and Custodes, and storm all relevant buildings and areas of interest. You do it swiftly, and with as much discretion as possible, which gives you leeway to alleviate fear publicly as much as possible.
And like I said, you stay ahead of the enemy. You don't give them chance to do anything to you. I mean come on, even you could clearly see that the others would want to dispose of you out of fear. Wouldn't you want to do something before they acted? With that thought in mind, you lay the ground work for a campaign in a bid for sole power.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/24 23:25:13
I will forever remain humble because I know I could have less.
I will always be grateful because I remember I've had less.
2015/09/24 23:17:27
Subject: If you were in charge of the imperium, what would you do?
Make the Space Wolves dial back their wolf motif. It is honestly really stupid at this point.
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
2015/09/24 23:55:19
Subject: If you were in charge of the imperium, what would you do?
And a Bolter has more than one type of ammunition. You try shooting Pulse Rifles at Tyranids, I'll take Hellfire rounds, thankyouverymuch.
I imagine that's an excellent choice if you're fighting big unarmored monsters in clustered groups and have NO HEAVY SUPPORT...and you happen to be in the 1/10th of Space Marines (at best) with access to the rounds.
All things told, the pulse rifle will be more effective against lightly armored tyranids by virtue of its superior range, superior rate of fire, and superior armor-piercing capability.
If something is so tough that pulse rifles can't touch it (and there's not a large list of tyranids that tough) I'll call in an AX-1-0 to deal with the problem. Tau, unlike Space Marines, can rely on combined arms support... because the Tau are simply better at waging war.
Put a ton of resources into killing him, and Honsou, or someone else, gets a promotion and all his Chaos gifts. Nothing has really changed. Nobody really cares about Abaddon (does anyone in Chaos care about anyone else?), and his death would simply cause a series of promotions, nothing more. No morale collapse, nothing.
The Chaos gods are not known for their ability to get along. They all have interests that work in opposition to each other. It could be that they find a leader quickly... or we get a scenario where the chosen warlords of various Chaos gods war and scheme for control for centuries while the IoM has enough time to crush Gaz, turn back the 'Nids, and hunt Necrons before they wake.... in that order, more than likely.
EmpNortonII wrote: I'd open a dialog with the Ethereals to negotiate some sort of long-term cultural exchange and peace treaty. They need to understand the true dangers of Chaos, and my Imperial Guard needs pulse rifles and hover-tanks to replace the worthless gak they currently use.
Out of curiosity, why?
The Tau are a worthlessly tiny annoyance in one tiny insignificant corner of the Galaxy. Plus, nothing they have is better than what the Imperium already has theoretical access to. The Imperium could arm all their soldiers with power armor, plasma guns, and give them hover tanks if they wanted. The issue is that would mean they'd only be able to arm a tiny fraction of what they currently do. Getting some Tau technology wouldn't change the issue of finite resources.
Lasguns, LRBTs, and all the other gear Guardsmen get isn't the best, but it ensures the job gets done. As opposed to having only a small number of highly equipped but terribly outnumbered soldiers.
The Lasgun and LRBT are actually quite decent vehicles. The lasgun is cheap, very reliable, has decent stopping power, and is simple to operate. The LRBT is also cheap, has good armor, a long range and powerful gun that is both simple to operate and keep running, it runs on just about any combustible liquid, and its an all around reliable vehicle.
It doesn't matter if a Hammerhead is 3 times as good as an LRBT when you can deploy 9 LRBTs for the cost of one Hammerhead.
The Tau make their weapons efficiently enough they can arm every soldier with a rifle superior to the bolter humanity reserves for its elite warriors. They're the only race in the galaxy that is advancing technology- every other race has hits its zenith and is falling backwards. Both make the Tau worthwhile allies that can change the fate of the galaxy.
Numerical superiority didn't work out well on Taros. The Tau captured about as many troops as they themselves deployed in the conflict, iirc.
Sure, they can make their weapons efficiently now. They couldn't if they had to arm trillions upon trillions of people a year.
Yes they are advancing technologically. But they're still very primitive compared to the Imperium and Ad Mech. It would be better to simply use what the Imperium already has more efficiently. Not downgrade for stuff that's flashy, but actually less advanced.
Taros wasn't numerical superiority. Literally in none of the Imperium-Tau conflicts has the Imperium thrown any serious weight at the Tau, because they're insignificant and not worth the effort. If the Tau EVER catch the Imperium's real attention, they'll last maybe a few decades.
This is what the Tau are. The Tau are a small tribe of people who live on a tiny Island in the Caribbean. They happen to have invented a gun that can shoot a half mile with accuracy. The Imperium is the British Empire which spans the globe with the power of their Navy. These pitiful natives have only managed to invent log rafts to travel from island to island. Saying the Tau are what would save the Imperium is like saying these natives have something the British Empire would not only need, but something that they will go extinct without. Believe me, nothing the Tau have is a threat to the Imperium OR the key to saving it.
At Taros, the Tau captured about as many Imperial troops as the Tau fielded in the campaign... and most of the humans escaped (tails between their legs).
A pulse rifle is certainly more advanced than a bolter. The pulse rifle is easier to use, easier to manufacture, hits harder, and has a longer range... and that's what humanity gives to its *elite* warriors as a battle rifle.
The pulse rifle is more advanced, but not more effective or easier to mass produce. The Bolter was specifically designed by the Emperor to be able to take down foes with power close to the Volkite weaponry while still being mass produceable at a scale that would allow the Legions to use them on a galaxy-spanning crusade (which the Volkite weaponry was not). The Bolter has both armour penetration capabilities. On paper, the Pulse Rifle is better. However, in fluff, the Bolter is more effective against anything fleshy. It has the same amount of armour penetration, but it penetrates the opponent's flesh and it explodes inside of it. Whereas, the Pulse Rifle has greater range and jut melts right through the flesh. While Plasma is arguably more effective, it doesn't have the same shock and awe value that the Bolter has, which makes a Bolter more effective against massed targets and pretty much any foe that isn't comprised of unfeeling robots. The Bolter and Pulse Rifle are equally effective, but they were designed for different situations.
Not true. The explosion is weak. The force from a pulse round leaving a body creates a nastier exit wound than the internal explosion of a bolter round.
What we know about the bolter's production is that it's too difficult to make to equip standard troops with. Not so with the pulse rifle.
Easy. The Marines will demand that all future aircraft have a jump-jet version, and thus the IoM will forever sacrifice air superiority to its enemies as all of its fighters will have to be light enough to take off from ski ramps and land vertically, regardless of how it penalizes the non-Marine versions, because they'll STILL be hung up on Guadalcanal 40,000 years later.
Damn... It just got too real in here. Roasted.
One flaw with your hypothesis: Imperial vehicle are already idiotically VTOL.
I expected better from you, Miko. Do I really need to explain this to you?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/09/25 05:02:24
I would initially contract the overall size of the Imperium to increase the density of the imperium a forces over a smaller area. Once that was done strength could be increased and a new expansion crusade could be launched. In a more controlled manner with specific star systems being captured and fortified before moving to the next.
2015/09/25 08:32:58
Subject: If you were in charge of the imperium, what would you do?
Probably die really quickly when I attempt to argue semantics such as, "the correct term for the Chaos worshippers is heathen as heretic implies that they are the same religious group as us."
2015/09/25 08:39:31
Subject: Re:If you were in charge of the imperium, what would you do?
Put a ton of resources into killing him, and Honsou, or someone else, gets a promotion and all his Chaos gifts. Nothing has really changed. Nobody really cares about Abaddon (does anyone in Chaos care about anyone else?), and his death would simply cause a series of promotions, nothing more. No morale collapse, nothing.
The Chaos gods are not known for their ability to get along. They all have interests that work in opposition to each other. It could be that they find a leader quickly... or we get a scenario where the chosen warlords of various Chaos gods war and scheme for control for centuries while the IoM has enough time to crush Gaz, turn back the 'Nids, and hunt Necrons before they wake.... in that order, more than likely.
EmpNortonII wrote: I'd open a dialog with the Ethereals to negotiate some sort of long-term cultural exchange and peace treaty. They need to understand the true dangers of Chaos, and my Imperial Guard needs pulse rifles and hover-tanks to replace the worthless gak they currently use.
Out of curiosity, why?
The Tau are a worthlessly tiny annoyance in one tiny insignificant corner of the Galaxy. Plus, nothing they have is better than what the Imperium already has theoretical access to. The Imperium could arm all their soldiers with power armor, plasma guns, and give them hover tanks if they wanted. The issue is that would mean they'd only be able to arm a tiny fraction of what they currently do. Getting some Tau technology wouldn't change the issue of finite resources.
Lasguns, LRBTs, and all the other gear Guardsmen get isn't the best, but it ensures the job gets done. As opposed to having only a small number of highly equipped but terribly outnumbered soldiers.
The Lasgun and LRBT are actually quite decent vehicles. The lasgun is cheap, very reliable, has decent stopping power, and is simple to operate. The LRBT is also cheap, has good armor, a long range and powerful gun that is both simple to operate and keep running, it runs on just about any combustible liquid, and its an all around reliable vehicle.
It doesn't matter if a Hammerhead is 3 times as good as an LRBT when you can deploy 9 LRBTs for the cost of one Hammerhead.
The Tau make their weapons efficiently enough they can arm every soldier with a rifle superior to the bolter humanity reserves for its elite warriors. They're the only race in the galaxy that is advancing technology- every other race has hits its zenith and is falling backwards. Both make the Tau worthwhile allies that can change the fate of the galaxy.
Numerical superiority didn't work out well on Taros. The Tau captured about as many troops as they themselves deployed in the conflict, iirc.
Sure, they can make their weapons efficiently now. They couldn't if they had to arm trillions upon trillions of people a year.
Yes they are advancing technologically. But they're still very primitive compared to the Imperium and Ad Mech. It would be better to simply use what the Imperium already has more efficiently. Not downgrade for stuff that's flashy, but actually less advanced.
Taros wasn't numerical superiority. Literally in none of the Imperium-Tau conflicts has the Imperium thrown any serious weight at the Tau, because they're insignificant and not worth the effort. If the Tau EVER catch the Imperium's real attention, they'll last maybe a few decades.
This is what the Tau are. The Tau are a small tribe of people who live on a tiny Island in the Caribbean. They happen to have invented a gun that can shoot a half mile with accuracy. The Imperium is the British Empire which spans the globe with the power of their Navy. These pitiful natives have only managed to invent log rafts to travel from island to island. Saying the Tau are what would save the Imperium is like saying these natives have something the British Empire would not only need, but something that they will go extinct without. Believe me, nothing the Tau have is a threat to the Imperium OR the key to saving it.
At Taros, the Tau captured about as many Imperial troops as the Tau fielded in the campaign... and most of the humans escaped (tails between their legs).
A pulse rifle is certainly more advanced than a bolter. The pulse rifle is easier to use, easier to manufacture, hits harder, and has a longer range... and that's what humanity gives to its *elite* warriors as a battle rifle.
The pulse rifle is more advanced, but not more effective or easier to mass produce. The Bolter was specifically designed by the Emperor to be able to take down foes with power close to the Volkite weaponry while still being mass produceable at a scale that would allow the Legions to use them on a galaxy-spanning crusade (which the Volkite weaponry was not). The Bolter has both armour penetration capabilities. On paper, the Pulse Rifle is better. However, in fluff, the Bolter is more effective against anything fleshy. It has the same amount of armour penetration, but it penetrates the opponent's flesh and it explodes inside of it. Whereas, the Pulse Rifle has greater range and jut melts right through the flesh. While Plasma is arguably more effective, it doesn't have the same shock and awe value that the Bolter has, which makes a Bolter more effective against massed targets and pretty much any foe that isn't comprised of unfeeling robots. The Bolter and Pulse Rifle are equally effective, but they were designed for different situations.
Not true. The explosion is weak. The force from a pulse round leaving a body creates a nastier exit wound than the internal explosion of a bolter round.
What we know about the bolter's production is that it's too difficult to make to equip standard troops with. Not so with the pulse rifle.
Exit wound? We are talking about a plasma weapon here, correct? i.e. a weapon that is so hot that it surpasses titanium gas in heat. That's like utilizing an arc weapon (techincally still a plasma weapon if it relies upon ionized gas to direct the energy, but that isn't what the pseudoscience is for Pulse weaponry), and expecting an exit wound; no logic. Bolter makes your face explode and rains brain matter upon your buddies; Pulse rifle just makes it melt. I think that I'd rather watch my friends' eyeballs get melted than have one of them land on my face.
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote: There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
We must all join the Kroot-startes...
2015/09/25 09:32:37
Subject: Re:If you were in charge of the imperium, what would you do?
dusara217 wrote: I think that I'd rather watch my friends' eyeballs get melted than have one of them land on my face.
Apples and oranges
So you're saying that seeing something and seeing it in a more horrific manner + feeling it ooze down your face are the same things? If your sister's head melted, that would be just as bad as it exploding and skull fragments being embedded into the wall while brain matter rains down around you and her tongue lands in your hair?
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote: There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
We must all join the Kroot-startes...
2015/09/25 10:03:23
Subject: If you were in charge of the imperium, what would you do?
1.Go to the Mechanicus and ask for the Tool that can repair anything (it has a name i just cant remember it), if they say no, atrade deal involving toasters may be involved. Then use said tool to fix the golden throne
2.Put a Text-to-Speech device on the emperor (dont care what you say about the series) so he can rule again
3.hand my power back to the emperor (but not before i legalize the use of xeno tech, and get myself a shiny necrodermis body)
The Empire 
1500 pts
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