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 Psienesis wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Make the Space Wolves dial back their wolf motif. It is honestly really stupid at this point.

This is a platform the Imperium can unite behind! With this kind of bold, decisive leadership, Humanity will be unstoppable!

Vote CustomLime! Vote for a more sensible Astartes!

Next year we'll be making the Blood Angels remove their nipple armor and petitioning the Admech to redesign the Centurions to look less ugly.

The second thing I would do if cult mechanus is slain is to reduce the power of the navigator families. By starting to produce and improve void abacusses and secretly spread them trough my empire. Once enough ships have been supplied order 66 on the navigators will be executed, and the astronomican can final be shut down. That thing was the worst idea ever.

The Void Abacus permits week-long jumps at the most. That's barely across the room in terms of space-travel.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Again, that is not an example of true Imperial numerical superiority. If the Imperium ever got serious with the Tau, they'd send more Imperial Guard to take a single planet than the entire population of the Tau empire. The Tau would literally run out of ammo, and the Imperium wouldn't even notice the losses. Taros was a small and pathetic imperial force. What the Tau did is not a notable act, its a mosquito being proud it sucked some blood from a lion.

I disagree that a pulse rifle is "easier" to manufacture. It uses rare and exotic materials. It might be easier for the Tau to make a Pulse rifle than for the Imperium to make a bolter, but when you consider numbers there are almost certainly more bolters than there are Tau. A bolter is a relatively simple weapon, a Pulse Rifle is going to be hideously complex(and thats not a good thing).

The Tau are falling victim to the need to over-engineer everything. One of the things plaguing modern militaries. And something that would destroy any galaxy spanning empire when push comes to shove.

To be fair, you're assuming the Tau aren't the planned creation of a greater being (Necrons, Eldar, or Tzeentch) that would come to their aid.

Second, you hit the nail on the head with the Tau over-engineering things. Its like their whole army is the F-35 debacle.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 LumenPraebeo wrote:
Bring reform to the Administratum, the Imperial Navy, the Imperial Guard, dismantle the Inquisition and bring all its personnel under the responsibility of the Officio Assassinorum. Bring reform to the Officio Assassinorum, and turn it into an general Intelligence branch of the Imperium. Increase Space Marine chapters, begin a 27th Founding. Increase Deathwatch chapter to legion strength, 10,000 strong. Start a propaganda campaign to increase colonization. Especially to worlds in between trade hubs. Initiate research project to find more efficient ways of terraforming, I imagine this will require bringing in knowledge from the Ordo Xenos and the Martian priesthood. Increase propaganda campaign for the celebration of the Emperor and his Primarchs. Remove Ministorum leaders from seats of power. Reverse positions of authority for the Adepta Sororitas, bringing the Ministorum under the watchful eye of the students it graduates. Remove their ships, and make sure the Sororitas work in close tandem with the Navy and Guard. Bring reform to the Arbites, make sure they conform to standard equipment. Lower tithes on planets across the board, but bring the taxes up to standard. No uneven tithes on planets of the same grade. Increase production demands on the Mechanicus and Forge Worlds. Bring reforms to education across the Imperium. Increase ship production. Demand increase in workers. Demand increase in Navigator population. Fix the Golden Throne.

Only just started reading this thread, but you'd do well to last 5 minutes with such wide and in-universe radical changes. The only question would be, who would get to you first, the inquisition or the Ecclesiarchy.

Neither, they'd both be eliminated as my first action. There's a lot of power in meta-awareness. The Grey Knights are gone, too. No Mary Sues in my army!

There's only so much power in meta-awareness. What, would you wave your hand and say "Poof! You're disbanded!"? That's not going to get you anything except a visitation from the Moritat or the Vindicare.

They Grey Knights and Inquisition were created by the Emperor's command. Being in charge of the Imperium is not the same as owning the Imperium. You're simply running it in the Emperor's stead.

If you chose to destroy institutions the Emperor himself personally founded, you'd be guilty of the worst kind of Heresy possible, and dead by the afternoon. Remember, the Inquisition serves the Emperor, and nobody else. Try to disband them, and they'd have the power and the authority to disband you first.

Martel732 wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 LumenPraebeo wrote:
Bring reform to the Administratum, the Imperial Navy, the Imperial Guard, dismantle the Inquisition and bring all its personnel under the responsibility of the Officio Assassinorum. Bring reform to the Officio Assassinorum, and turn it into an general Intelligence branch of the Imperium. Increase Space Marine chapters, begin a 27th Founding. Increase Deathwatch chapter to legion strength, 10,000 strong. Start a propaganda campaign to increase colonization. Especially to worlds in between trade hubs. Initiate research project to find more efficient ways of terraforming, I imagine this will require bringing in knowledge from the Ordo Xenos and the Martian priesthood. Increase propaganda campaign for the celebration of the Emperor and his Primarchs. Remove Ministorum leaders from seats of power. Reverse positions of authority for the Adepta Sororitas, bringing the Ministorum under the watchful eye of the students it graduates. Remove their ships, and make sure the Sororitas work in close tandem with the Navy and Guard. Bring reform to the Arbites, make sure they conform to standard equipment. Lower tithes on planets across the board, but bring the taxes up to standard. No uneven tithes on planets of the same grade. Increase production demands on the Mechanicus and Forge Worlds. Bring reforms to education across the Imperium. Increase ship production. Demand increase in workers. Demand increase in Navigator population. Fix the Golden Throne.

Only just started reading this thread, but you'd do well to last 5 minutes with such wide and in-universe radical changes. The only question would be, who would get to you first, the inquisition or the Ecclesiarchy.

Neither, they'd both be eliminated as my first action. There's a lot of power in meta-awareness. The Grey Knights are gone, too. No Mary Sues in my army!

That's like me saying ,"When I become President of the United States, I'm disbanding the FBI and CIA - no professional law enforcement in my army!

 dusara217 wrote:
So you're saying that seeing something and seeing it in a more horrific manner + feeling it ooze down your face are the same things? If your sister's head melted, that would be just as bad as it exploding and skull fragments being embedded into the wall while brain matter rains down around you and her tongue lands in your hair?

No, they're both terrible, but at that level of terrible, the reaction to either would almost be indiscernible.

First things first, tone down some the Palace decor, gothic is one thing, excessive Gothic no.

mainly, work on getting the Ad mec to innovate more, or at least bring more new tech in faster as things are gettig darker and 300 years waiting for a STC to clear to is too long.

New weapons are needed. and waiting decades for them is not helping the front lines.

commander dante wrote:
1.Go to the Mechanicus and ask for the Tool that can repair anything (it has a name i just cant remember it)

Duct tape?

SBG wrote:
Virus bomb everything. Better safe than sorry.

Then take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

 Drakeslayer wrote:
Minister, it is the most courageous thing you have ever done.

(Now how many people here understand the reference?)

Send a few divisions of Elysium Drop Troopers on a "good will" visit to a few (borderline rebellious) planets. Have a few more divisions ready if they need reinforcements.
Reinforcements of "good will".

Nuke terra. Shut down the Astartes. Set the Fabricator-General as the new emperor. Make an ass ton of titans. Kill the tau. ADMECH ALL DAY!

 Mantorok wrote:


Second, you hit the nail on the head with the Tau over-engineering things. Its like their whole army is the F-35 debacle.

Spoiler:

That said, it's a damn sight better than the Imperiums motto of "The world is Emperor Magic" when it comes to their tech.

Bah! Past Forgeworld's goofier and goofier giant suits, the Tau are very practical in their weapons development. They are the only race with a sci-fi A-10, the exact opposite of the F-35. Cheap to produce and built entirely for one purpose that it does better for less resources than anything else in the galaxy- the AX-1-0.

 dusara217 wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

Spoiler:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

Hierophant wrote:


Put a ton of resources into killing him, and Honsou, or someone else, gets a promotion and all his Chaos gifts. Nothing has really changed. Nobody really cares about Abaddon (does anyone in Chaos care about anyone else?), and his death would simply cause a series of promotions, nothing more. No morale collapse, nothing.

The Chaos gods are not known for their ability to get along. They all have interests that work in opposition to each other. It could be that they find a leader quickly... or we get a scenario where the chosen warlords of various Chaos gods war and scheme for control for centuries while the IoM has enough time to crush Gaz, turn back the 'Nids, and hunt Necrons before they wake.... in that order, more than likely.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:
I'd open a dialog with the Ethereals to negotiate some sort of long-term cultural exchange and peace treaty. They need to understand the true dangers of Chaos, and my Imperial Guard needs pulse rifles and hover-tanks to replace the worthless gak they currently use.

Out of curiosity, why?

The Tau are a worthlessly tiny annoyance in one tiny insignificant corner of the Galaxy. Plus, nothing they have is better than what the Imperium already has theoretical access to. The Imperium could arm all their soldiers with power armor, plasma guns, and give them hover tanks if they wanted. The issue is that would mean they'd only be able to arm a tiny fraction of what they currently do. Getting some Tau technology wouldn't change the issue of finite resources.

Lasguns, LRBTs, and all the other gear Guardsmen get isn't the best, but it ensures the job gets done. As opposed to having only a small number of highly equipped but terribly outnumbered soldiers.

The Lasgun and LRBT are actually quite decent vehicles. The lasgun is cheap, very reliable, has decent stopping power, and is simple to operate. The LRBT is also cheap, has good armor, a long range and powerful gun that is both simple to operate and keep running, it runs on just about any combustible liquid, and its an all around reliable vehicle.

It doesn't matter if a Hammerhead is 3 times as good as an LRBT when you can deploy 9 LRBTs for the cost of one Hammerhead.

The Tau make their weapons efficiently enough they can arm every soldier with a rifle superior to the bolter humanity reserves for its elite warriors. They're the only race in the galaxy that is advancing technology- every other race has hits its zenith and is falling backwards. Both make the Tau worthwhile allies that can change the fate of the galaxy.

Numerical superiority didn't work out well on Taros. The Tau captured about as many troops as they themselves deployed in the conflict, iirc.

Sure, they can make their weapons efficiently now. They couldn't if they had to arm trillions upon trillions of people a year.

Yes they are advancing technologically. But they're still very primitive compared to the Imperium and Ad Mech. It would be better to simply use what the Imperium already has more efficiently. Not downgrade for stuff that's flashy, but actually less advanced.

Taros wasn't numerical superiority. Literally in none of the Imperium-Tau conflicts has the Imperium thrown any serious weight at the Tau, because they're insignificant and not worth the effort. If the Tau EVER catch the Imperium's real attention, they'll last maybe a few decades.

This is what the Tau are. The Tau are a small tribe of people who live on a tiny Island in the Caribbean. They happen to have invented a gun that can shoot a half mile with accuracy. The Imperium is the British Empire which spans the globe with the power of their Navy. These pitiful natives have only managed to invent log rafts to travel from island to island. Saying the Tau are what would save the Imperium is like saying these natives have something the British Empire would not only need, but something that they will go extinct without. Believe me, nothing the Tau have is a threat to the Imperium OR the key to saving it.

At Taros, the Tau captured about as many Imperial troops as the Tau fielded in the campaign... and most of the humans escaped (tails between their legs).

A pulse rifle is certainly more advanced than a bolter. The pulse rifle is easier to use, easier to manufacture, hits harder, and has a longer range... and that's what humanity gives to its *elite* warriors as a battle rifle.

The pulse rifle is more advanced, but not more effective or easier to mass produce. The Bolter was specifically designed by the Emperor to be able to take down foes with power close to the Volkite weaponry while still being mass produceable at a scale that would allow the Legions to use them on a galaxy-spanning crusade (which the Volkite weaponry was not). The Bolter has both armour penetration capabilities. On paper, the Pulse Rifle is better. However, in fluff, the Bolter is more effective against anything fleshy. It has the same amount of armour penetration, but it penetrates the opponent's flesh and it explodes inside of it. Whereas, the Pulse Rifle has greater range and jut melts right through the flesh. While Plasma is arguably more effective, it doesn't have the same shock and awe value that the Bolter has, which makes a Bolter more effective against massed targets and pretty much any foe that isn't comprised of unfeeling robots. The Bolter and Pulse Rifle are equally effective, but they were designed for different situations.

Not true. The explosion is weak. The force from a pulse round leaving a body creates a nastier exit wound than the internal explosion of a bolter round.

What we know about the bolter's production is that it's too difficult to make to equip standard troops with. Not so with the pulse rifle.

Exit wound? We are talking about a plasma weapon here, correct? i.e. a weapon that is so hot that it surpasses titanium gas in heat. That's like utilizing an arc weapon (techincally still a plasma weapon if it relies upon ionized gas to direct the energy, but that isn't what the pseudoscience is for Pulse weaponry), and expecting an exit wound; no logic. Bolter makes your face explode and rains brain matter upon your buddies; Pulse rifle just makes it melt. I think that I'd rather watch my friends' eyeballs get melted than have one of them land on my face.

I'm pretty sure that a HEAT round's ionized copper stream would create an exit wound if, ya know, the detonation of the actual round would leave anything afterward to look at.

Regardless, since I don't think any books have compared a bolter to a pulse rifle from a fluffy perspective, what we're left with is mechanics- Str 5 30" vs Str 4 24".

Even if one were to theoretically obtain a position senior to the High Lords of Terra, there is remarkably little one individual could do to change the course of the imperium or even set a policy that would be adopted by the majority of the imperium with their lifespan.

 Robbert Ambrose wrote:
Even if one were to theoretically obtain a position senior to the High Lords of Terra, there is remarkably little one individual could do to change the course of the imperium or even set a policy that would be adopted by the majority of the imperium with their lifespan.

And that leads to another point. By the time you do, you'll likely be hundreds of years old, with your mind stuck on "can't get anything done, too much paperwork" mode ever since ascending to the rank of High Lord. As an In-Character thing, I'd most likely be sitting around abusing my level of power by getting slaves to do things for me.

Maybe make someone invent a personal void-shield. In case of assassins.

 LumenPraebeo wrote:
You recruit help from their opposition, or from someone who you can manipulate into thinking you're on their side. Or from someone you want to ally with. Besides, you've just been given power over all of the imperium, it has to come with some perks, surely? And you don't ask the Ecclesiarchy to agree with the Inquisition being dismantled. You survey and monitor all Inquisition activity, and when you're confident enough, then you bring in Astartes, Assassinorum, and Custodes, and storm all relevant buildings and areas of interest. You do it swiftly, and with as much discretion as possible, which gives you leeway to alleviate fear publicly as much as possible.

Perks and getting your way all the time are not the same thing. Your 'strategy' is basically a list of good outcomes. There's no way you could organise such a vast conspiracy without the Inquisition - the Imperium's professional conspirators- noticing. Not that you wouldn't have sympathetic people but the insane fall out from destroying such a major organisation means even many of them might put a bullet in your brain simply for suggesting the idea. A degenerating status quo is literally the religion of the Imperium and as I said before is reinforced by examples from Vandire to Huron that a singular-minded Great Man is often more trouble than he's worth from their POV.

And like I said, you stay ahead of the enemy. You don't give them chance to do anything to you. I mean come on, even you could clearly see that the others would want to dispose of you out of fear. Wouldn't you want to do something before they acted? With that thought in mind, you lay the ground work for a campaign in a bid for sole power.

Obviously, high politics, powerplay etc. However keeping your position in a Game of Thrones esque manner against rival High Lords or whoever isn't the same as upending the system millions of powerful people (and trillions of others) rely on. Its why I made the distinction between operational and systemic reform. Redirect a crusade or whatever, fine as long as it works- may have to deal with a rival High Lord capitalising on its failure etc. But fiddling with the actual workings of the Imperium is entirely different. At that point "staying ahead" of your enemies isn't an issue, because its now a "Bring Me the Head of Lumen Praebeo" scenario.

Basically you seem to be coming at this like a Frank Underwood however his goal was power within the system, not tearing the system down.

If something dramatic happened, like the whole Eastern Fringe going dark because of Super Hivefleet Gigantus, there might be enough pressure to force a rethink but I think the current Imperium is secure enough that complacency is acceptable to most. Within the Holy Terra bubble there has to be a blood good reason for people to go along with your radical ideas.

I don't think so. I think there will be just as many people fighting for me as going against me. And I think I may have a chance of winning.

 LumenPraebeo wrote:
I don't think so. I think there will be just as many people fighting for me as going against me. And I think I may have a chance of winning.

After "Horus Heresy pt.2: The Praebo wars", you'll probably wish you hadn't gone for it.

Send a few divisions of Elysium Drop Troopers on a "good will" visit to a few (borderline rebellious) planets. Have a few more divisions ready if they need reinforcements.
Reinforcements of "good will".

This guy gets it.

 Drakeslayer wrote:

Send a few divisions of Elysium Drop Troopers on a "good will" visit to a few (borderline rebellious) planets. Have a few more divisions ready if they need reinforcements.
Reinforcements of "good will".

This guy gets it.

if they get too rebellious, offer to invite the space sharks for a party.

if they don't give in then well....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Make the Space Wolves dial back their wolf motif. It is honestly really stupid at this point.

This is a platform the Imperium can unite behind! With this kind of bold, decisive leadership, Humanity will be unstoppable!

Vote CustomLime! Vote for a more sensible Astartes!

Next year we'll be making the Blood Angels remove their nipple armor and petitioning the Admech to redesign the Centurions to look less ugly.

Next you will want them to don sensible camouflage colors.

The policy of "get the Church, the Space Marines and the Assassins" on my side argument is a little, shall we say, naive.

What happens if one aspect of those vastly complex, geographically spread out and politically divided organisations decide not to go with you? Then you're likely finished. All it takes is on person to inform the Inquisiton, who will have your head by the end of the week. They'll likely already have about a dozen such contingency plans for something like this, all ready to go. Their loyalty is to the Emperor, not the High Lords, and it'd be negligent of them not to have such a plan.

And this is disregarding the ultimate contingency - a Custodes pops out of secret door in your beadroom one day, that you didn't know existed, and hasn't been opened in 10,000 years, and impales you on a power spear.

Hierophant wrote:
And this is disregarding the ultimate contingency - a Custodes pops out of secret door in your beadroom one day, that you didn't know existed, and hasn't been opened in 10,000 years, and impales you on a power spear.

Official cause of death: slipped down the stairs.

 Selym wrote:
After "Horus Heresy pt.2: The Praebeo wars", you'll probably wish you hadn't gone for it.

Or maybe I will

 LumenPraebeo wrote:

 Selym wrote:
After "Horus Heresy pt.2: The Praebeo wars", you'll probably wish you hadn't gone for it.

Or maybe I will

Well, when the Imperium takes massive casualties, and the aliens start winning as a result...

 Sturmtruppen wrote:

Hierophant wrote:
And this is disregarding the ultimate contingency - a Custodes pops out of secret door in your beadroom one day, that you didn't know existed, and hasn't been opened in 10,000 years, and impales you on a power spear.

Official cause of death: slipped down the stairs.

The Supremely Glorious and Grand Kaiba agrees,


most definitely pushed by a Space Wolf spy

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

 Sturmtruppen wrote:

Hierophant wrote:
And this is disregarding the ultimate contingency - a Custodes pops out of secret door in your beadroom one day, that you didn't know existed, and hasn't been opened in 10,000 years, and impales you on a power spear.

Official cause of death: slipped down the stairs.

The Supremely Glorious and Grand Kaiba agrees,


most definitely pushed by a Space Wolf spy

And so, it began; The Horus Heresy pt.3: War of the Russian Furries.

 Sturmtruppen wrote:

Hierophant wrote:
And this is disregarding the ultimate contingency - a Custodes pops out of secret door in your beadroom one day, that you didn't know existed, and hasn't been opened in 10,000 years, and impales you on a power spear.

Official cause of death: slipped down the stairs.

Nah...

"Cause of death: Failure to protect neck. Also, the record indicates that the body had been wrecked, possibly as a result of failing to check himself."

 Psienesis wrote:

 Sturmtruppen wrote:

Hierophant wrote:
And this is disregarding the ultimate contingency - a Custodes pops out of secret door in your beadroom one day, that you didn't know existed, and hasn't been opened in 10,000 years, and impales you on a power spear.

Official cause of death: slipped down the stairs.

Nah...

"Cause of death: Failure to protect neck. Also, the record indicates that the body had been wrecked, possibly as a result of failing to check himself."

"Didn't roll a 4+ to save on his Carapace Armour"