If you wait through tip the end of the clip, Mark Hamill shows up in an interview. And he looks stoned/pissed/had a stroke. Can't tell which.
Movie looks fun though. Looks like it'll be a MUCH different style to what we've seen in Star Wars so far, but they can do that; it exists outside of the core films.
timetowaste85 wrote: If you wait through tip the end of the clip, Mark Hamill shows up in an interview. And he looks stoned/pissed/had a stroke. Can't tell which.
Much like his performance in TFA.
Seems like it was trying to get you to click a link to hear what he had to say. I assume if you click it he will break out in a song and dance routine.
Oh I really like the look of this. I've been excited for a while about a Star Wars film that looked outside of the one family that keeps screwing the galaxy up. This looks like it is seriously going to deliver.
timetowaste85 wrote: If you wait through tip the end of the clip, Mark Hamill shows up in an interview. And he looks stoned/pissed/had a stroke. Can't tell which.
Much like his performance in TFA.
It's part of a bit.
Kathleen Kennedy talks for a while and Mark just stares at the camera. She tells him to say something and then he looks suprised and says, "Oh... I have dialogue?! I'm used to just staring intensely."
timetowaste85 wrote: If you wait through tip the end of the clip, Mark Hamill shows up in an interview. And he looks stoned/pissed/had a stroke. Can't tell which.
Much like his performance in TFA.
Huh. In the movie I saw, his "performance" was about 10 seconds of screen time that consisted of him turning his head and staring. You must have gotten access to an extended version or something.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: On the subject of Death Stars, this will be the fourth star wars film out of eight to feature a Death Star
It would be nice to have some originality once in a while.
If you knew more about the film, you would know that this is set during the time of the Death Star and is not set in the new timeline of The Force Awakens.
So I mean, this makes perfect sense for there to be a Death Star......
I didn't feel that TFA needed a "Death Star", so I can understand the criticism that film gathered from having one, but certainly a film about stealing the plans to the original Death Star should feature a Death Star.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: On the subject of Death Stars, this will be the fourth star wars film out of eight to feature a Death Star
It would be nice to have some originality once in a while.
If you knew more about the film, you would know that this is set during the time of the Death Star and is not set in the new timeline of The Force Awakens.
So I mean, this makes perfect sense for there to be a Death Star......
I'm aware of the storyline, and logically, it does makes perfect sense to have a deathstar, but from a creative sense, it feels like the cow has been milked once too often.
There's a whole galaxy to choose from, and trillions of potential storylines, alien races. could be set anytime else in the past, etc etc
Even if they decided to present this as 1970s East German arthouse it will still make a ton of money, and still have a ton of people watching it.
They can afford to push the boat out a bit and give viewers something different, and not another death star.
I'm going to hopefully pre-empt people by posting this:
People will rightfully say that despite knowing the story beforehand, I've gone and watched a film at the cinema.
And they'd be right. I've seen numerous film adaptions of books I've read.
But a film and a book are two completely different mediums, two different visions. There is more to a film adaption than story, and some films exist solely for the visual spectacle, or combining sound and vision to achieve their aims.
Blade Runner is a film I could watch for the spectacular visuals alone, so good are they.
Returning to star wars, the series has never been about the books, probably because they never existed!. Sure, there are spin-off novels and tie ins, but the appeal of this space opera has always been its narrative drive, with ESB being a famous example.
Rogue One, and the prequels, robbed Star Wars of its greatest strength, because you know what will happen beforehand. You knew that Anakin would turn to the dark side, you know that the rebels will get the plans.
Ah, but what about the journey, some people will say. Isn't it interesting to see where Anakin or these rebels went right and wrong?
A good point, but a revealed destination still locks the narrative in a rigid strait jacket.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: On the subject of Death Stars, this will be the fourth star wars film out of eight to feature a Death Star
It would be nice to have some originality once in a while.
If you knew more about the film, you would know that this is set during the time of the Death Star and is not set in the new timeline of The Force Awakens.
So I mean, this makes perfect sense for there to be a Death Star......
I'm aware of the storyline, and logically, it does makes perfect sense to have a deathstar, but from a creative sense, it feels like the cow has been milked once too often.
There's a whole galaxy to choose from, and trillions of potential storylines, alien races. could be set anytime else in the past, etc etc
Okay, but how does that further the plot or storyline of the new Trilogy? I mean, that is what they are doing here. Not just putting out a bunch of movies willy nilly that do not have synergy, they are trying to expand a storyline much like they are doing with the Marvel universe.
Also, does anybody else think the main character might be Rey's Mom?
I think the film looks great. I wasn't a huge face of The Force Awakens, since it was pretty much A New Hope all over again, and while the scenes look great, I am kind of irritated with another female lead. I dont know if Star Wars is turning into those MockingJay and Divergent movies. Who knows, I guess thats whats popular these days.
But its going to be refreshing to see those old school rebel troopers and storm troopers again. And I really hope Darth Vader makes an appearance.
I'm aware of the storyline, and logically, it does makes perfect sense to have a deathstar, but from a creative sense, it feels like the cow has been milked once too often.
There's a whole galaxy to choose from, and trillions of potential storylines, alien races. could be set anytime else in the past, etc etc
I understand this, but I blame A Force Awakens more than I blame this. The original death star was really something to behold. The Starkiller was just another death star (from hell). I love the nod to the actual Death Star, not its imitator.
I love Episode IV, especially the early events of it, so this kind of goes towards and fills in my favorite part of the Star Wars timeline.
Out of curiosity, do I not like that, have you watched the Rebels' series? It also takes place in between films- but by focusing on the stories of minor characters, as rogue one will, it has maintained some excellent tension even though some invincibly plot armored main characters have waltzed through. I'm hopeful similar direction could result in an awesome film without Jedi.
This looks really good. I mean, as good as a trailer for a film not released for half a year can look. Anyway, it shall be interesting to see a different angle on the universe, and the visuals look great; this should be a worthwhile addition to the 'AWSUM SPECTACLE' shelf in my house.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: On the subject of Death Stars, this will be the fourth star wars film out of eight to feature a Death Star
It would be nice to have some originality once in a while.
If you knew more about the film, you would know that this is set during the time of the Death Star and is not set in the new timeline of The Force Awakens.
So I mean, this makes perfect sense for there to be a Death Star......
I'm aware of the storyline, and logically, it does makes perfect sense to have a deathstar, but from a creative sense, it feels like the cow has been milked once too often.
There's a whole galaxy to choose from, and trillions of potential storylines, alien races. could be set anytime else in the past, etc etc
Even if they decided to present this as 1970s East German arthouse it will still make a ton of money, and still have a ton of people watching it.
They can afford to push the boat out a bit and give viewers something different, and not another death star.
I get what you mean.... and then they make it incredibly obvious it is the deathstar......
Hell they could of had us the entire time being fooled it's some kind of new high tech fighter or something (aka death star looking like the Tie fighter cockpit), only for a big reveal at the end.... But no.... we knew from it's inception it was about stealing the death star plans, they can't keep anything as a surprise anymore.
Tbh I would of been much more interested in something about the creation of the New Order.
timetowaste85 wrote: If you wait through tip the end of the clip, Mark Hamill shows up in an interview. And he looks stoned/pissed/had a stroke. Can't tell which.
Movie looks fun though. Looks like it'll be a MUCH different style to what we've seen in Star Wars so far, but they can do that; it exists outside of the core films.
It was about the "Force for Change" charity thing, but that was just him being silly. He stays like that, not moving for a while.
Mdlbuildr wrote: For 30 years SW fans have said "Wouldn't it be cool if they made a movie about how the Death Star plans were stolen by the Rebellion????"
Now they are making that movie.
"That's gonna SUUUUUUUCK. Can't they think of something more original!!!????"
KTG17 wrote: I think the film looks great. I wasn't a huge face of The Force Awakens, since it was pretty much A New Hope all over again, and while the scenes look great, I am kind of irritated with another female lead. I dont know if Star Wars is turning into those MockingJay and Divergent movies. Who knows, I guess thats whats popular these days.
But its going to be refreshing to see those old school rebel troopers and storm troopers again. And I really hope Darth Vader makes an appearance.
I'm aware of the storyline, and logically, it does makes perfect sense to have a deathstar, but from a creative sense, it feels like the cow has been milked once too often.
There's a whole galaxy to choose from, and trillions of potential storylines, alien races. could be set anytime else in the past, etc etc
I understand this, but I blame A Force Awakens more than I blame this. The original death star was really something to behold. The Starkiller was just another death star (from hell). I love the nod to the actual Death Star, not its imitator.
I love Episode IV, especially the early events of it, so this kind of goes towards and fills in my favorite part of the Star Wars timeline.
I would just like to point out, that is not my quote.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: On the subject of Death Stars, this will be the fourth star wars film out of eight to feature a Death Star
It would be nice to have some originality once in a while.
If you knew more about the film, you would know that this is set during the time of the Death Star and is not set in the new timeline of The Force Awakens.
So I mean, this makes perfect sense for there to be a Death Star......
I'm aware of the storyline, and logically, it does makes perfect sense to have a deathstar, but from a creative sense, it feels like the cow has been milked once too often.
There's a whole galaxy to choose from, and trillions of potential storylines, alien races. could be set anytime else in the past, etc etc
Even if they decided to present this as 1970s East German arthouse it will still make a ton of money, and still have a ton of people watching it.
They can afford to push the boat out a bit and give viewers something different, and not another death star.
I get what you mean.... and then they make it incredibly obvious it is the deathstar......
Hell they could of had us the entire time being fooled it's some kind of new high tech fighter or something (aka death star looking like the Tie fighter cockpit), only for a big reveal at the end.... But no.... we knew from it's inception it was about stealing the death star plans, they can't keep anything as a surprise anymore.
Tbh I would of been much more interested in something about the creation of the New Order.
Given that star wars will make hundreds of millions of dollars in profit, Disney can approach the best directors and scriptwriters around and say name your price. Even if these individuals are not star wars fans, money talks, and even the best people on autopilot are probably better than most other people out there.
What's 10 million dollars spent when you're making 1 billion dollars?
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Gitzbitah wrote: Out of curiosity, do I not like that, have you watched the Rebels' series? It also takes place in between films- but by focusing on the stories of minor characters, as rogue one will, it has maintained some excellent tension even though some invincibly plot armored main characters have waltzed through. I'm hopeful similar direction could result in an awesome film without Jedi.
Mdlbuildr wrote: For 30 years SW fans have said "Wouldn't it be cool if they made a movie about how the Death Star plans were stolen by the Rebellion????"
Now they are making that movie.
"That's gonna SUUUUUUUCK. Can't they think of something more original!!!????"
LMAO.
I'm not a star wars fan
Did you stop to think that maybe this movie isn't marketed towards you?
I'm looking forward to it. I'm not *massively* hyped about it though.
I would have probably gone absolutely nutty for it though if Kyle Katarn had been involved as one of the team.
I'm not saying this as a Comic Book Guy "they changed it now it sucks" kinda thing. I'm perfectly good with there being a new main character for the mission who is the hero of it all and that being different from the story I grew up with. However, I would have absolutely loved if they have Kyle Katarn as part of the 'crew' that was involved in it all, as he's basically one of my favourite characters.
KTG17 wrote: I think the film looks great. I wasn't a huge face of The Force Awakens, since it was pretty much A New Hope all over again, and while the scenes look great, I am kind of irritated with another female lead. I dont know if Star Wars is turning into those MockingJay and Divergent movies. Who knows, I guess thats whats popular these days.
But its going to be refreshing to see those old school rebel troopers and storm troopers again. And I really hope Darth Vader makes an appearance.
Why the hell does it even remotely matter if it is a female lead? Is there something inherently worse about female leads that we should only have to put up with them once in a while? I mean, we had a male lead in the prequels, and he was complete and utter gak. I want a good lead, not a male one, and this one looks pretty good to me. Even assumin Daisy Ridley stays as the lead in all three of the sequel trilogy films, which seems likely, then once we get the Han Solo and Boba Fett movies, the male led films will still outnumber the female led films by eight to four!
As for The Hunger Games, which was okay, and Divergent, which I haven't watched, we could still go out there and add up male leads in, let's say, Harry Potter, James Bond, Jason Bourne, Mad Max (except the last one, it is entirely male leads), Star Trek, Lord of the Rings, The Marvel Cinemaverse, the DC Cinemaverse, Indiana Jones, Rocky...
One or two films, such as Pirates of the Caribbean and Juraissic Park have had borderline co-lead females, but come on, it isn't like the world is overwhelmingly dominated by male leads already.
Come on, irritated by a female lead? There are enough bad things to worry about in films and life already, without being offended by females getting the lead in 1/3 of the Star Wars films.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, I forgot about the Alien franchise, with Sigourney Weaver as the lead. Would that have been as good a film with a male lead? No, clearly not.
It is not the female lead which is a problem, of course, it is that these days, they put gay/black/homosexual/insert-a-minority-allegedly-oppressed-by-the-bad-white-mens in absolutely everything.
Look at Mass Effect 1: aliens,women, black, etc...
It 's totally ok and normal to meet a lot of different people during the Shepard's journey in the galaxy.
But in the Normandy, not all the monorities are represented.
Now look at ME3: every possible monority is represented, mexicans, black, woman who love woman, man who love man, straight...
It is not even credible...
If you want another example, it is like the power creep in 40k: during a whole version, a codex is overpowered, but then in the next, it is totaly overshadowed by another codex etc...
It is not because Hollywood didn't represented women enough in the past that it should forget men in the present.
Equality is fine, but propaganda is bad (and now everyone know Disney is actively advocating for the lgbt lobby).
It is sad to see a saga you love being used so badly.
godardc wrote: It is not the female lead which is a problem, of course, it is that these days, they put gay/black/homosexual/insert-a-minority-allegedly-oppressed-by-the-bad-white-mens in absolutely everything.
Look at Mass Effect 1: aliens,women, black, etc...
It 's totally ok and normal to meet a lot of different people during the Shepard's journey in the galaxy.
But in the Normandy, not all the monorities are represented.
Now look at ME3: every possible monority is represented, mexicans, black, woman who love woman, man who love man, straight...
It is not even credible...
If you want another example, it is like the power creep in 40k: during a whole version, a codex is overpowered, but then in the next, it is totaly overshadowed by another codex etc...
It is not because Hollywood didn't represented women enough in the past that it should forget men in the present.
Equality is fine, but propaganda is bad (and now everyone know Disney is actively advocating for the lgbt lobby).
It is sad to see a saga you love being used so badly.
Used so badly? What? So, Disney attempting to make a story how they want in a fictional universe they own is somehow propaganda?
Also, how is it not credible in the Mass Effect series? I just honestly do not understand the point you are attempting to make here.
godardc wrote: It is not the female lead which is a problem, of course, it is that these days, they put gay/black/homosexual/insert-a-minority-allegedly-oppressed-by-the-bad-white-mens in absolutely everything.
Look at Mass Effect 1: aliens,women, black, etc...
It 's totally ok and normal to meet a lot of different people during the Shepard's journey in the galaxy.
But in the Normandy, not all the monorities are represented.
Now look at ME3: every possible monority is represented, mexicans, black, woman who love woman, man who love man, straight...
It is not even credible...
If you want another example, it is like the power creep in 40k: during a whole version, a codex is overpowered, but then in the next, it is totaly overshadowed by another codex etc...
It is not because Hollywood didn't represented women enough in the past that it should forget men in the present.
Equality is fine, but propaganda is bad (and now everyone know Disney is actively advocating for the lgbt lobby).
It is sad to see a saga you love being used so badly.
The only thing missing was Darth Vader laying down the law. But honestly the first trailer is not the time to break that out.
So is that the Emperor? What is that cylinder? A cloning cylinder perhaps?
Who is the Imperial Officer in white? His rank seems to be admiral (rather than grand admiral) - so is he with the ISB perhaps?
It's so refreshing to be able to just enjoy the build up for this one without the trepidation of "will this be another phantom menace?" that I felt leading up to Episode VII.
The only thing missing was Darth Vader laying down the law. But honestly the first trailer is not the time to break that out.
So is that the Emperor? What is that cylinder? A cloning cylinder perhaps?
Who is the Imperial Officer in white? His rank seems to be admiral (rather than grand admiral) - so is he with the ISB perhaps?
It's so refreshing to be able to just enjoy the build up for this one without the trepidation of "will this be another phantom menace?" that I felt leading up to Episode VII.
I think this one looks great!
I'm right there with you buddy...
If Vader is in this flick... I'm going to lose my gak.
godardc wrote: It is not the female lead which is a problem, of course, it is that these days, they put gay/black/homosexual/insert-a-minority-allegedly-oppressed-by-the-bad-white-mens in absolutely everything.
Look at Mass Effect 1: aliens,women, black, etc...
It 's totally ok and normal to meet a lot of different people during the Shepard's journey in the galaxy.
But in the Normandy, not all the monorities are represented.
Now look at ME3: every possible monority is represented, mexicans, black, woman who love woman, man who love man, straight...
It is not even credible...
Well, you know what, if you actually open your eyes, there is a gay or a black or another minority or *gasp* a woman (not, I should point out, a minority) in most things in real life, why not Star Wars? I don't know about computer games, so I can't actually say whether middle class white guys are under-represented in it or not, but come on, you mentioned Mexicans, blacks and gays as every type of minority, which is hardly the case.
If you want another example, it is like the power creep in 40k: during a whole version, a codex is overpowered, but then in the next, it is totaly overshadowed by another codex etc...
It is not because Hollywood didn't represented women enough in the past that it should forget men in the present.
Men forgotten in the present?!?! I'd love to see a breakdown of male vs female screen time in The Force Awakens, because whilst Daisy Ridley is clearly the lead, Dameron Poe, Finn, Kylo Renn, Han Solo et al hardly lack for screen time. I'm pretty sure Chewie is a dude too. I'd love to find out he is a she, just to see your reaction! Men were absolutely not forgotten in the Force Awakens, nor do they seem to be in this trailer. Nor will they be in the Han Solo and Boba Fett movies. You are sore because it seems women are at least close to and possibly even on an equal footing, rather than in the background.
Equality is fine, but propaganda is bad (and now everyone know Disney is actively advocating for the lgbt lobby).
It is sad to see a saga you love being used so badly.
Firstly, how is this film remotely evidence of LGBT lobbying? No lesbians, no gays, no bis, no transgender!
No film is being used badly because it has women in a position of influence. I really don't understand how you can see women have a strong role as a negative thing. I don't see it as a particular positive to the film itself - it is entirely neutral to me in terms of how it affects the quality of the film. I see it as a positive for society.
Honestly, what is actually wrong with having strong women in these films? Do you find it somehow unbelievable? Does it threaten your own sense of self as a protector? Is it a religious thing?
I want to say that last year there was reports of Annie resuming the role of Darth Vader, with some people assuming that it was for TFA and others assuming it was related to Rogue One. I don't know if the reports of him actually playing Vader were ever confirmed, but it would make sense.
I want to say that last year there was reports of Annie resuming the role of Darth Vader, with some people assuming that it was for TFA and others assuming it was related to Rogue One. I don't know if the reports of him actually playing Vader were ever confirmed, but it would make sense.
Argh, I really hope they just let Vader keep his mask on and don't use the actor for Anakin at all. Just no need, and I mean who did Vader really talk to with his mask off besides Luke? Just put someone else in the suit and don't use the actor from 1 - 3...
This trailer looked absolutely fantastic to me, especially Forest Whitaker as trainer / mentor / etc. Man oh man was that voiceover awesome!
I want to say that last year there was reports of Annie resuming the role of Darth Vader, with some people assuming that it was for TFA and others assuming it was related to Rogue One. I don't know if the reports of him actually playing Vader were ever confirmed, but it would make sense.
Argh, I really hope they just let Vader keep his mask on and don't use the actor for Anakin at all. Just no need, and I mean who did Vader really talk to with his mask off besides Luke? Just put someone else in the suit and don't use the actor from 1 - 3...
In the same token, there really is no harm done by using the same actor either. He's just the body in the suit and doesn't take anything away from it either. The suit is the face of Vader, and James Earl Jones is the voice. For better or worse, Annie is the current actor. Just like it's the same person behind the metal of C3PO and the same guy inside of R2D2 for many many movies.
I really really really don't see Disney asking Hayden Christensen to do anything but maybe maybe some voice work or permission to use his likeness in some kind of cameo-like manner.
d-usa wrote: For better or worse, Annie is the current actor.
Not really. Scenes with Vader in the suit would almost certainly be done by someone chosen for their physical size, as David Prowse originally was.
True, but I imagine that actor costs quite a bit, when if he's never going to take the mask off you can just have someone athletic take the role and try to forget he ever portrayed Vader
Sorry, I recently re-watched the 1 - 3 movies and greatly prefer these newer iterations so any reminder of those is unwelcome to me.
RiTides wrote: True, but I imagine that actor costs quite a bit, when if he's never going to take the mask off you can just have someone athletic take the role and try to forget he ever portrayed Vader
Has he actually done anything since 1-3? He might be cheap if he hasn't done much work since then .
The only thing missing was Darth Vader laying down the law. But honestly the first trailer is not the time to break that out.
So is that the Emperor? What is that cylinder? A cloning cylinder perhaps?
Who is the Imperial Officer in white? His rank seems to be admiral (rather than grand admiral) - so is he with the ISB perhaps?
It's so refreshing to be able to just enjoy the build up for this one without the trepidation of "will this be another phantom menace?" that I felt leading up to Episode VII.
I think this one looks great!
The Officer in white had the same number of markings on his Uniform as the Grand Admirals, the only difference is they aren't 6 Blue on the right and 3 red and 3 yellow on the Left. Well that and his Uniform is White and Black as opposed to the full white. I'd lean towards him being a Grand Admiral, but i would really enjoy it being like the head of ISB or something.
As for the cylinder you just know what ever it is has to be important, its got TWO Royal Guard protecting it.
And those Black Armored Troopers, are they Shadow Troopers? Are they Dark Troopers? Something new altogether? The Blasters they are shown shooting certainly arent the standard E-11.
Yep, Grand Admiral for sure. The only ones to wear white tunics. My supposition is that it is Grand Admiral Yularen. He is sitting at the conference table in Ep. IV. Undoubtedly he is in charge of the project and turns it over to Tarkin, as Tarkin is less a military leader by this point and more a political apointee (Moff).
I'm going to guess the new type of Stormie is either Dark Trooper project or Shadow Trooper. Shadow Troopers were more of the spec force, where as the Dark Trooper program was intended to create a super soldier trooper and install that as the new wonder weapon phasing out Stormtroopers and replacing them with the super trooper.
d-usa wrote: There is the one scene where a figure in black robes kneels down in front of a chamber of some sort with members of the Royal Guard in the room.
Figure in black robes + Royal Guards = Emperor
Now that's not a foolproof formula but I'd say that is most likely the Emperor and we will get to see some of his "long term plans" taking shape in this movie.
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xraytango wrote: Yep, Grand Admiral for sure. The only ones to wear white tunics. My supposition is that it is Grand Admiral Yularen.
Colonel Yularen wore white because he served in the ISB.
d-usa wrote: There is the one scene where a figure in black robes kneels down in front of a chamber of some sort with members of the Royal Guard in the room.
Figure in black robes + Royal Guards = Emperor
Now that's not a foolproof formula but I'd say that is most likely the Emperor and we will get to see some of his "long term plans" taking shape in this movie.
I don't think we have ever seen Vader with a hood before, so I'm guessing it's likely not him kneeling?
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: The Officer in white had the same number of markings on his Uniform as the Grand Admirals, the only difference is they aren't 6 Blue on the right and 3 red and 3 yellow on the Left.
That would make him an Admiral rather than a Grand Admiral. The issue is his white uniform, which could be explained by service in the ISB. An ISB officer would be a suitable villain in a movie about a covert Rebel operation.
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d-usa wrote: I don't think we have ever seen Vader with a hood before, so I'm guessing it's likely not him kneeling?
Only time Vader wore a hood was on Mustafar before donning the mask/suit. Note: perhaps the Emperor is not the one kneeling but rather ... the one being kneeled to - i.e., he's in the cylinder.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: The Officer in white had the same number of markings on his Uniform as the Grand Admirals, the only difference is they aren't 6 Blue on the right and 3 red and 3 yellow on the Left.
That would make him an Admiral rather than a Grand Admiral. The issue is his white uniform, which could be explained by service in the ISB. An ISB officer would be a suitable villain in a movie about a covert Rebel operation.
That would make the most sense to have him just be an Admiral with ISB, the new troopers could even be an ISB program then with him as the Director.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: On the subject of Death Stars, this will be the fourth star wars film out of eight to feature a Death Star
It would be nice to have some originality once in a while.
The power of Death Stars/Starkillers is such that they warrant a state of constant pursuit. They are a galactic nuclear option that can strong arm anyone into submission. So while they are not my favorite recurring element in Star Wars, I fully understand their presence.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: the new troopers could even be an ISB program then with him as the Director
Yeah I could see them being Covert Ops Storm Troopers under ISB management.
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Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: On the subject of Death Stars, this will be the fourth star wars film out of eight to feature a Death Star
So your complaint is well taken with regard to RotJ and especially Episode VII ... but it's hardly a worthwhile point when it comes to this particular movie !
Honestly, what is actually wrong with having strong women in these films? Do you find it somehow unbelievable?
I care more about the story and so on over anything else, but when people laugh or question why people have a problem with it this springs to mind very quickly.
I find it unbelievable. I go to the gym 1 hour a day every day and so I see the fittest people of both sexes in my area everyday. The strongest women are incredibly weak physically compared to even normal guys, of course im sure in some places in the world there are some bigger women but even then compared to most men they are not all that strong. Then in this trailer I see a twig of a lady take down storm troopers single highhandedly in a fist fight... no. Just no. Even if one of those storm troopers was obese, and another was a scrawny dude they would easily be able to do anything they want with her. It would be like playing with a toy. Although I hear they let females join the storm troopers now so maybe the odds are made a bit more even? Thats just my gripe with female action leads who aren't done right. I find it incredibly cringy personally.
I mean, does nobody face palm when the lead actress looks like image below but can beat down the best soldiers in the galaxy?
Spoiler:
Female jedi are cool like the ones in the prequel movies, because they use magic and do their thing which can limit the gender disparity. But some random human is not nearly as able to do what is depicted, especially one that looks like a pudgy twig, unless of course this lead is a super jedi like the previous one. There is a reason why the saying "dont hit a women" exists.
As for the diversity complaints I think it depends on where you live. For example I have seen less than 5 black men in my life, when we see them its a surprising thing. A fair few asians/indians but by and large its all whites and some Maoris. Movies these days in no way reflect the people I see in real life unless its an NZ made movie. But I guess thats no different from me watching a movie from India with Indians only etc. But I can see how weird it is seeing a western movie being full of people you dont see every day as a bit odd especially when they are all "Americanized", also odd considering when most countries bar the USA seem to use the demographics of the country in their movies. Unless tv shows and movies are correct and America is made up of mostly blacks, gays and middle easterners haha. When my family went to the USA a few years back I know they saw mostly white people everywhere contrary to the movies, but america is a big place so thats something a well traveled American would know.
Anyway sounds like im whining a lot but its easy to see why some people are scratching their heads. My answer to all of the above is simple, the US needs to market to as many demographics as possible. So of course it's not gonna represent reality in terms of demographic screen time. Especially if you live in a homogeneous area.
I have no idea what the guy was on about with LGBT and propaganda etc, but a few seconds of thought can explain both why some people find the casting weird and at the same time why the casting is done in the first place.
Anyway....
Anybody notice how bad movies always have trailers for trailers
Also, anybody notice the super battle droid looking thing?
So, I know Felicity Jones' character being in an Imperial Uniform is likely just her undercover, but is anyone else hoping she's actually an ISB Agent?
That would be neat...although maybe not so much if 'is she a spy?!?!' is hanging over the whole narrative.
I assume were going to touch on double agents somehow even if it's not her character.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: So, I know Felicity Jones' character being in an Imperial Uniform is likely just her undercover, but is anyone else hoping she's actually an ISB Agent?
Yeah I am hoping she at least has some past working for the Empire, if not that she is a current double agent. It could be a movie about her starting out as a mole and then turning because the Empire is making a fething planet destroyer. I mean, that is a pretty unethical weapon.
Well, firstly, I meant strong character, rather than physical strength. But why are we assuming she has no "special" skills? In the books there Jedi, pseudo-Jedi, etc... It doesn't seem such a stretch.
As for the diversity issue, if we are talking about a galactic-wide film, we could assume only one race will be evident, based on where we have experienced. Maybe it is because I am lucky enough to live in London, but I'd like to think that if I grew up somewhere a bit more mono-racial, I'd still be aware that there are other races. There are quite a lot of black people in Africa, for example. If you only want to watch movies that match what you've experienced though, I am not sure how to persuade you that is wrong.
d-usa wrote: I don't think we have ever seen Vader with a hood before, so I'm guessing it's likely not him kneeling?
Only time Vader wore a hood was on Mustafar before donning the mask/suit. Note: perhaps the Emperor is not the one kneeling but rather ... the one being kneeled to - i.e., he's in the cylinder.
Yeah, I was thinking that maybe Vader would have been the one doing the kneeling, but the hood is making me very doubtful.
Wishful thinking, but maybe it's everyone's favorite Hand of the Emperor?
Fifty wrote: Well, firstly, I meant strong character, rather than physical strength. But why are we assuming she has no "special" skills? In the books there Jedi, pseudo-Jedi, etc... It doesn't seem such a stretch.
As for the diversity issue, if we are talking about a galactic-wide film, we could assume only one race will be evident, based on where we have experienced. Maybe it is because I am lucky enough to live in London, but I'd like to think that if I grew up somewhere a bit more mono-racial, I'd still be aware that there are other races. There are quite a lot of black people in Africa, for example. If you only want to watch movies that match what you've experienced though, I am not sure how to persuade you that is wrong.
I was merely saying just a tiny bit of thought would answer all your questions to that guy.
How many people read starwars books? Not many. Even when I was obsessed with the movies as a kid I hated the books. But so far we are presented with what looks to be a 30 year old women taking down soldiers in the trailer. Easy to see where people begin getting some disbelief yes?
In that same vein, if watching movies about only what people experience is not an issue, then why do so many complain when their demographic is excluded (like women for example as the common one?) or if another demographic is commonly used (like white men as the common example). Because clearly, and again a bit of thought would solve this question, it actually is an issue to a lot of people. Which is fair enough. I know for me, when I see a film thats not set in UK or USA its quite nice, especially movies in my country. O)f course, where you live you see British movies all the time as does the rest of the world. So perhaps you don't notice it as such. Even in Africa there is a growing market for films by Africans for Africans rather than just watching foreign movies. Because for most people it actually matters, especially if it's a film they would like to enjoy.
Anyway, I don't overly care, I just don't understand why thats so hard for some people to swallow thats all.
Honestly, what is actually wrong with having strong women in these films? Do you find it somehow unbelievable?
I care more about the story and so on over anything else, but when people laugh or question why people have a problem with it this springs to mind very quickly.
I find it unbelievable. I go to the gym 1 hour a day every day and so I see the fittest people of both sexes in my area everyday. The strongest women are incredibly weak physically compared to even normal guys, of course im sure in some places in the world there are some bigger women but even then compared to most men they are not all that strong. Then in this trailer I see a twig of a lady take down storm troopers single highhandedly in a fist fight... no. Just no. Even if one of those storm troopers was obese, and another was a scrawny dude they would easily be able to do anything they want with her. It would be like playing with a toy. Although I hear they let females join the storm troopers now so maybe the odds are made a bit more even? Thats just my gripe with female action leads who aren't done right. I find it incredibly cringy personally.
I mean, does nobody face palm when the lead actress looks like image below but can beat down the best soldiers in the galaxy?
Well, these would be great arguments if physical strength was the only thing factored in when fighting. I mean, she could certainly be trained to take on things much larger than her. She could have improved fighting ability through training. We have no clue.
Also, the best soldiers in the galaxy? Really? I have heard the Stormtroopers called a lot of things, but never that.
Honestly, what is actually wrong with having strong women in these films? Do you find it somehow unbelievable?
I care more about the story and so on over anything else, but when people laugh or question why people have a problem with it this springs to mind very quickly.
I find it unbelievable. I go to the gym 1 hour a day every day and so I see the fittest people of both sexes in my area everyday. The strongest women are incredibly weak physically compared to even normal guys, of course im sure in some places in the world there are some bigger women but even then compared to most men they are not all that strong. Then in this trailer I see a twig of a lady take down storm troopers single highhandedly in a fist fight... no. Just no. Even if one of those storm troopers was obese, and another was a scrawny dude they would easily be able to do anything they want with her. It would be like playing with a toy. Although I hear they let females join the storm troopers now so maybe the odds are made a bit more even? Thats just my gripe with female action leads who aren't done right. I find it incredibly cringy personally.
I mean, does nobody face palm when the lead actress looks like image below but can beat down the best soldiers in the galaxy?
Well, these would be great arguments if physical strength was the only thing factored in when fighting. I mean, she could certainly be trained to take on things much larger than her. She could have improved fighting ability through training. We have no clue.
Also, the best soldiers in the galaxy? Really? I have heard the Stormtroopers called a lot of things, but never that.
"Improved fighting ability". Life is not a video game mate. If she was truly "trained" she would not look the way she does.
This should be the minimum standard of any action hero female at least barring aliens maybe.
Even people who fight by hoping their opponent doesn't balance well (like in some martial arts etc) still need to maintain their physical strength. You can't really excuse this stuff without a lot of hand waving like being a jedi or super being etc.
Dreadwinter wrote: Also, the best soldiers in the galaxy? Really? I have heard the Stormtroopers called a lot of things, but never that.
"The best" does not necessarily mean "good"
I mean, if teddy bears can destroy a whole garrison of Stormtroopers in episode 6, I am willing to believe a human woman might just be able to kill a few without having to look like she's hulking out at the gym 24/7.
Honestly, what is actually wrong with having strong women in these films? Do you find it somehow unbelievable?
I care more about the story and so on over anything else, but when people laugh or question why people have a problem with it this springs to mind very quickly.
I find it unbelievable. I go to the gym 1 hour a day every day and so I see the fittest people of both sexes in my area everyday. The strongest women are incredibly weak physically compared to even normal guys, of course im sure in some places in the world there are some bigger women but even then compared to most men they are not all that strong. Then in this trailer I see a twig of a lady take down storm troopers single highhandedly in a fist fight... no. Just no. Even if one of those storm troopers was obese, and another was a scrawny dude they would easily be able to do anything they want with her. It would be like playing with a toy. Although I hear they let females join the storm troopers now so maybe the odds are made a bit more even? Thats just my gripe with female action leads who aren't done right. I find it incredibly cringy personally.
I mean, does nobody face palm when the lead actress looks like image below but can beat down the best soldiers in the galaxy?
Well, these would be great arguments if physical strength was the only thing factored in when fighting. I mean, she could certainly be trained to take on things much larger than her. She could have improved fighting ability through training. We have no clue.
Also, the best soldiers in the galaxy? Really? I have heard the Stormtroopers called a lot of things, but never that.
"Improved fighting ability". Life is not a video game mate. If she was truly "trained" she would not look the way she does.
This should be the minimum standard of any action hero female at least barring aliens maybe.
Even people who fight by hoping their opponent doesn't balance well (like in some martial arts etc) still need to maintain their physical strength. You can't really excuse this stuff without a lot of hand waving like being a jedi or super being etc.
Life is also not a movie, mate. If she was truly "trained" in a fictional universe with people that are not the same types of Human that we are, I would assume she could look exactly like they want her to look like.
Honestly, what is actually wrong with having strong women in these films? Do you find it somehow unbelievable?
I care more about the story and so on over anything else, but when people laugh or question why people have a problem with it this springs to mind very quickly.
I find it unbelievable. I go to the gym 1 hour a day every day and so I see the fittest people of both sexes in my area everyday. The strongest women are incredibly weak physically compared to even normal guys, of course im sure in some places in the world there are some bigger women but even then compared to most men they are not all that strong. Then in this trailer I see a twig of a lady take down storm troopers single highhandedly in a fist fight... no. Just no. Even if one of those storm troopers was obese, and another was a scrawny dude they would easily be able to do anything they want with her. It would be like playing with a toy. Although I hear they let females join the storm troopers now so maybe the odds are made a bit more even? Thats just my gripe with female action leads who aren't done right. I find it incredibly cringy personally.
I mean, does nobody face palm when the lead actress looks like image below but can beat down the best soldiers in the galaxy?
Well, these would be great arguments if physical strength was the only thing factored in when fighting. I mean, she could certainly be trained to take on things much larger than her. She could have improved fighting ability through training. We have no clue.
Also, the best soldiers in the galaxy? Really? I have heard the Stormtroopers called a lot of things, but never that.
"Improved fighting ability". Life is not a video game mate. If she was truly "trained" she would not look the way she does.
This should be the minimum standard of any action hero female at least barring aliens maybe.
Even people who fight by hoping their opponent doesn't balance well (like in some martial arts etc) still need to maintain their physical strength. You can't really excuse this stuff without a lot of hand waving like being a jedi or super being etc.
Life is also not a movie, mate. If she was truly "trained" in a fictional universe with people that are not the same types of Human that we are, I would assume she could look exactly like they want her to look like.
And that is fine if you are one of the people who simply accepts whats on screen. But when someone makes a complaint and someone jumps on them because they assume its about fragile masculinity (see the original comment I responded too) or god forbid religious reasons is it not unreasonable to simply point out why someone might have that certain complaint.
xraytango wrote: Yep, Grand Admiral for sure. The only ones to wear white tunics. My supposition is that it is Grand Admiral Yularen.
Colonel Yularen wore white because he served in the ISB.
You are correct, seems somehow I mistakenly remember a thing a while back where it was listed that the guy was a grand admiral, maybe one of the old source books from the Thrawn trilogy or somesuch place before a lot of the EU was really nailed down? Of course the pants give it away, Grand Admirals wear white pants, this guy's uniform had black pants. You can see that in the boardroom scene and they match up here.
Given the nature of the film (Magnificent Seven, Dirty Dozen, Guns of Navarone, and other espionage/spy shows) Having the ISB as a pronounced faction would make a lot of really good sense.
And that is fine if you are one of the people who simply accepts whats on screen.
I generally accept what is on screen when it is a universe where these things can and have happened in the past. Also the fact there is space wizards and everybody is touched by the force in some way.
But you are right, women fighting is the most ridiculous thing about these movies.....
And that is fine if you are one of the people who simply accepts whats on screen.
I generally accept what is on screen when it is a universe where these things can and have happened in the past. Also the fact there is space wizards and everybody is touched by the force in some way.
But you are right, women fighting is the most ridiculous thing about these movies.....
If everyone is part space wizard then it evens the playing field and we are back to square one bar some exceptions yes?
Because I totally said that. Reading comprehension is not the strongest here I see.
Anyway, still no talk about the super battle droid looking thing? Could this be the first prequel reference?
And that is fine if you are one of the people who simply accepts whats on screen.
I generally accept what is on screen when it is a universe where these things can and have happened in the past. Also the fact there is space wizards and everybody is touched by the force in some way.
But you are right, women fighting is the most ridiculous thing about these movies.....
I know, right?! Also, God forbid they're good at doing things! The only way that is acceptable is if the movie takes a time out to explain it to us in detail. Otherwise, it's just too unrealistic in a movie with space wizards, gangster slugs, hyperdrives, and laser swords.
Guys guys guys we have a new Star Wars trailer here. If somebody is all worked up about a female lead so be it. Why not move on to any number of interesting things about the trailer rather than stir that one guy's pot?
I mean good lord look at that super laser dish being put into place. How many channels do you think Tarkin gets?
And that is fine if you are one of the people who simply accepts whats on screen.
I generally accept what is on screen when it is a universe where these things can and have happened in the past. Also the fact there is space wizards and everybody is touched by the force in some way.
But you are right, women fighting is the most ridiculous thing about these movies.....
If everyone is part space wizard then it evens the playing field and we are back to square one bar some exceptions yes?
Because I totally said that. Reading comprehension is not the strongest here I see.
No, no you didn't. What you said was female space wizards are fine, but everything else is unbelievable.
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: The Officer in white had the same number of markings on his Uniform as the Grand Admirals, the only difference is they aren't 6 Blue on the right and 3 red and 3 yellow on the Left.
That would make him an Admiral rather than a Grand Admiral. The issue is his white uniform, which could be explained by service in the ISB. An ISB officer would be a suitable villain in a movie about a covert Rebel operation.
I think Grand Admirals have white pants as well, while ISB officers have black/gray pants. Which would put our mystery officer more firmly in the ISB category.
The diversity argument is as silly to me as always, but I am sympathetic to the notion that if you're going to have a female character who can hold her own [without enhancements such as bionics or the force], they should at least look the part.
Hugh Jackman is almost 50, but that doesn't stop him from bulking up to the point where he can actually give comic book Wolverine's physique a run for its money- there is no reason for female action-leads to not have bodies like women's MMA fighters if they're expected to hold their own against trained male soldiers on-screen.
That said, it's really just a minor peeve. At the end of the day this is just a movie, sex appeal is considered the most important aspect of a female character to movie studios and we live in a society where muscle mass is considered masculine. So, oh well.
Manchu wrote: Guys guys guys we have a new Star Wars trailer here. If somebody is all worked up about a female lead so be it. Why not move on to any number of interesting things about the trailer rather than stir that one guy's pot?
I mean good lord look at that super laser dish being put into place. How many channels do you think Tarkin gets?
I seem to remember that piece being on the Death Star at the end of episode 3.
Manchu wrote: Guys guys guys we have a new Star Wars trailer here. If somebody is all worked up about a female lead so be it. Why not move on to any number of interesting things about the trailer rather than stir that one guy's pot?
I mean good lord look at that super laser dish being put into place. How many channels do you think Tarkin gets?
Probably not that many. If the Original movies are anything to go by, the dish will have horrible bandwidth.
Manchu wrote: Guys guys guys we have a new Star Wars trailer here. If somebody is all worked up about a female lead so be it. Why not move on to any number of interesting things about the trailer rather than stir that one guy's pot?
I mean good lord look at that super laser dish being put into place. How many channels do you think Tarkin gets?
I seem to remember that piece being on the Death Star at the end of episode 3.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: On the subject of Death Stars, this will be the fourth star wars film out of eight to feature a Death Star
It would be nice to have some originality once in a while.
Am I remembering wrong, or are you into the Bond franchise? If so, tomato, tomahto. If not, please excuse this comment.
Trailer looks fun. Sucker for star wars.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Xenomancers wrote: If this quality of starwars is anything to go by - I am certain this generation of youngsters will prefer star trek. Which is probably a good thing.
Not to start a row or anything, but I much prefer TFA to the current trek offerings.
Manchu wrote: Guys guys guys we have a new Star Wars trailer here. If somebody is all worked up about a female lead so be it. Why not move on to any number of interesting things about the trailer rather than stir that one guy's pot?
I mean good lord look at that super laser dish being put into place. How many channels do you think Tarkin gets?
I seem to remember that piece being on the Death Star at the end of episode 3.
Not quite:
Edited for smaller picture
I don't remember that scene at all. Was it on a later edition or something?
VictorVonTzeentch wrote: So, I know Felicity Jones' character being in an Imperial Uniform is likely just her undercover, but is anyone else hoping she's actually an ISB Agent?
Yeah I am hoping she at least has some past working for the Empire, if not that she is a current double agent. It could be a movie about her starting out as a mole and then turning because the Empire is making a fething planet destroyer. I mean, that is a pretty unethical weapon.
Yeah, it would be a good time to stop and think to yourself "Am I on the right side?" I get the feeling the same thing is happening with Agent Kallus on Rebels after the "Enemy Mine" episode.
i still refuse to get overhyped by Star Wars, but I will admit that this trailer has piqued my interest a lot more than any other Star Wars film since the original trilogy.
I actually have hopes this will be good, rather than a cynical fatalism. Actually this means the film is actually more likely to disappoint funnily enough. I had such low expectations that I actually enjoyed even Attack of the Clones straight up for what it was.
Watching the trailer again, in the scene with the alarms sounding, is the lady lead walking out of the hanger with... Kyle Katarn? Looks a bit like him...
Nostromodamus wrote: Watching the trailer again, in the scene with the alarms sounding, is the lady lead walking out of the hanger with... Kyle Katarn? Looks a bit like him...
No, it's Diego Luna's character, Cassein Willix. Given they're central to stealing the death star plans, I'm guessing the general appearance of them is meant to be a nod to fans of Dark Forces without outright using those characters (especially with Jyns name spoken in the trailer sounded super similar to Jan Ors).
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Rogue One, and the prequels, robbed Star Wars of its greatest strength, because you know what will happen beforehand. You knew that Anakin would turn to the dark side, you know that the rebels will get the plans.
Ah, but what about the journey, some people will say. Isn't it interesting to see where Anakin or these rebels went right and wrong?
A good point, but a revealed destination still locks the narrative in a rigid strait jacket.
Even in totally original works people generally know how things will turn out overall. People weren't on the edge of their seats hoping the rebels would blow up the Death Star, instead the fun was in seeing how it played out – Obi-Wan telling Luke to use the force, Han coming in at the last second to save the day. Similarly people weren’t held in suspense that Luke might just turn to the dark side when he confronted his Dad, but watching how it played out, with his Dad eventually defending his son.
What was lacking in the prequels is that little was done to change our understanding of how the events described in the original films played out, and where it was changed it was in boring or unsatisfying ways.
The "legends" stories are at present, nought but a midden for the story group to mine in order to extract nuggets that will be given a trim, polish and reuse.
So expect to see characters that sort of resemble ones you remember reading about, but don't have the same names.
Which is about as good a fate as can befall it.
(It was never canon. Was never going to be Canon and bits only became so because they got used in "G-canon" (the films) or as part of the "going forward" direction - i.e "TCW" & "rebels" which has brought other older legends material into the canon.)
Swastakowey wrote: I care more about the story and so on over anything else, but when people laugh or question why people have a problem with it this springs to mind very quickly.
I find it unbelievable. I go to the gym 1 hour a day every day and so I see the fittest people of both sexes in my area everyday. The strongest women are incredibly weak physically compared to even normal guys, of course im sure in some places in the world there are some bigger women but even then compared to most men they are not all that strong. Then in this trailer I see a twig of a lady take down storm troopers single highhandedly in a fist fight... no. Just no. Even if one of those storm troopers was obese, and another was a scrawny dude they would easily be able to do anything they want with her. It would be like playing with a toy. Although I hear they let females join the storm troopers now so maybe the odds are made a bit more even? Thats just my gripe with female action leads who aren't done right. I find it incredibly cringy personally.
I mean, does nobody face palm when the lead actress looks like image below but can beat down the best soldiers in the galaxy?
If realistic action is your concern then I'm not sure how you got through any of the Star Wars films. It isn't remotely plausible to have a farm kid and a smuggler walking around an enemy base defeating multiple groups of trained soldiers, but that's where Star Wars started, and it's only gotten crazier from there.
I have no idea why plausibility would only become a problem when you have a woman who's asked to perform tasks as implausible as those done by male characters.
The insanity of the heroes' performance on the Death Star in ANH is a pretty frequent complaint among Star Wars criticisms, actually.
Personally, I've been begging for the Star Wars universe to have competent baddies for about 20 years now. It doesn't look like Disney plans on giving that to me any time soon, unfortunately.
Swastakowey wrote: I care more about the story and so on over anything else, but when people laugh or question why people have a problem with it this springs to mind very quickly.
I find it unbelievable. I go to the gym 1 hour a day every day and so I see the fittest people of both sexes in my area everyday. The strongest women are incredibly weak physically compared to even normal guys, of course im sure in some places in the world there are some bigger women but even then compared to most men they are not all that strong. Then in this trailer I see a twig of a lady take down storm troopers single highhandedly in a fist fight... no. Just no. Even if one of those storm troopers was obese, and another was a scrawny dude they would easily be able to do anything they want with her. It would be like playing with a toy. Although I hear they let females join the storm troopers now so maybe the odds are made a bit more even? Thats just my gripe with female action leads who aren't done right. I find it incredibly cringy personally.
I mean, does nobody face palm when the lead actress looks like image below but can beat down the best soldiers in the galaxy?
If realistic action is your concern then I'm not sure how you got through any of the Star Wars films. It isn't remotely plausible to have a farm kid and a smuggler walking around an enemy base defeating multiple groups of trained soldiers, but that's where Star Wars started, and it's only gotten crazier from there.
I have no idea why plausibility would only become a problem when you have a woman who's asked to perform tasks as implausible as those done by male characters.
You mean the event where Darth Vader put a tracking beacon on their ship (so they were meant to make it)? Which leigh had a huge hand in? (because unlike the latest batch of female heroines she was pretty tame).
Or the horrible Battle for Endor which was by most accounts silly?
If luke beat some storm troopers to death with a mace and had the physique of an 8 year old boy then yea I probably wouldnt have watched starwars.
You are correct its gotten crazier from there, but in that same vein they have also gotten worse from there too. Coincidence?
Anyway as I said, I don't particularly care, but I find it baffling why people are so shocked when the casting choices are criticized.
Even in totally original works people generally know how things will turn out overall
" I am your father..."
Nobody seen that coming, and anybody that tells you otherwise is a damn liar!
Except, you know, Oedipus Rex...
Also, it's actually a pretty gakky plot twist. Obi-Wan was supposed to be a wise old man that we could trust and the reveal that Vader is Luke's father just makes him out to be a manipulative dick.
Considering that she ed up which language Vader means father in (Dutch, not German. German it's "Vater"), as well as the pronunciation, I cannot actually give her credit for this.
Sigvatr wrote: Kyle Katarn will always be the one who stole the Death Star plans and no retconning will change this!
Very good-looking trailer so far. Liked the totallynotOmahaBeach scene
Katarn alone didn't steal the plans. He got partial plans from Danuta as part of Operation: Skyhook. It wasn't until Toprawa that the Rebellion finally had a complete set of plans, and that was what led to the Tantive IV fleeing Devastator to be over Tatooine and get the whole "A New Hope" ball rolling.
If they decide to keep Toprawa in continuity...just damn. The Empire's punishment for the planet being part of the Rebellion's intelligence network was to bombard all the major population centers and force the populace into barbarism. They blockaded the system and strictly controlled the flow of supplies, forcing the populace to work for the Imperial troops planetside.
@kanluwen & sigvatr: Arg why do you guys make me miss the 'jedi knight' series so much? I only played outcast and academy but man those were fun, fun games. I haven't played many 'star wars' games since but KotOR never held me like that series did.
Jedi Outcast: Start out as han solo/rogue wanna-be (to an extent) and by end-game turn into a demi-god that probably gets it on with that attractive woman once credits roll.
Kyle Katarn is basically the more fun kind of jedi. He's good but has a bit of bad in him.
Kyle Katarn would make for an amazing series. He's such an interesting character who went from Imperials to Rebels, even questioned said decision, has an awesome partner with Jan Ors, making up for hilarious movie moments and awesome chemistry / buddy moments, later on even becomes a Jedi. Yes, he isn't black or a woman, but come on Disney, his stories are awesome and a lot of people /love/ him!
Hmmm, it seems this is normal for him. I have to be honest I dont like it, it's simply not right.
See:
Spoiler:
It seems he wears shoe laces when there is a dress code which requires it. One day he will fall mark my words. At his age falls cannot be taken lightly.
So, I've watched the teaser a few more times and I've been thinking on it.
First thing is, I am getting more hyped for the film because I started thinking about things that could happen in it.
Basically, I thought of a possible ending scene, then started extrapolating backwards. I'm gonna spoiler the rest of the post because my theories have been pretty darn accurate recently.
But I will stress, this is based entirely on only watching the teaser and way too much time reading http://www.tvtropes.org about way too many films.
I think I said the teaser really evokes a feeling of "The Dirty Dozen" or "Where Eagles Dare." So there's a bit of that too. Oh, and Serenity and I thought that before I found out Alan Tudyk was in the film.
Spoiler:
So, we have the Admiral, ISB, whatever guy. Imagine he survives the main action of the film.
---------------
<Scene> Admiral is speaking over hologram to an unseen figure.
"We report the rebels are dead." <Pause, breathing is heard> "However, they managed to achieve their objective and have beamed a transmission to the outer rim. We believe it is the plans..."
Admiral starts grasping at his throat, struggling to breathe. <Rasping breathing becomes more prominent as the Admiral dies>
Offscreen voice: Captain, set course for Tatooine.
Camera swings round, Imperial Star Destroyer bridge and Darth Vader strides across. Screen wipe, cue the credits.
------------------
Notice I said, "The Rebels are Dead." It seems to me that the only plausible outcome of this film, is Jyn and the rest of her crew all dying. We all know how Star Wars loves its "Hero of a thousand faces" and that sort of classical arc stuff.
Jyn would appear to be following the kinda Han Solo-ish arc of. "Nothing to believe in > Wavers > Comes good in the end." Sort of concept. However, I don't think they'll follow that exactly. I'm thinking something more, Boromir like.
So, I've got this image of. The Heist is completed, Jyn and her merry band have the Death Star plans but... They're trapped.
Their only option, for the future of the Rebellion, Jyn having now truly realised the sheer horror of the Death Star is to transmit the plans via a massive interstellar transmitter station.
They take it over but it requires time to pull off (this is my Serenity bit). As they work on this, the Imperials arrive. - Now, we know from the teaser that Jyn's worked undercover during the film, probably met the Admiral and the Inquisitor type baddy too.
Surprisingly, the Empire asks them to surrender. Destroy the plans, betray the Rebellion and they'll live (albeit in prison). In fact, she'll even get rewarded, everything she ever asked for. But these people she's met during her adventure, they're her friends. She refuses the deal.
Big final battle, the merry band dies one by one. Jyn's wounded. The Inquisitor stalks towards her (having received injuries from Ninja dude, but still standing and having dispatched said ninja dude).
Jyn coughes blood. Yet, she's looking at a progress bar above her.
The Inquisitor speaks. "Look at all this. Your allies dead. And for what? It's futile to resist The Dark Side. Why would you throw away your life for this... Rebellion?"
Progress Bar Reaches 100%
Jyn says something suitable heroic. (No other child will have to live in fear?)
Transmission Completed.
Thermal Detonator rolls out from underneath Jyn.
Transmission Station explodes, screen covered in flames.
A musical instrument is heard... A flute... Screenwipe.
Prince Leia's Theme "My my, R2, a transmission you say?" Whistles. "I shall get the Princess at once."
Fadeout, to the epilogue that started this train of thought.
Of course, I might be completely wrong (and may very well be) but man, just thinking about all that, all the possibilities in there just got me so completely hyped for the film.
At least "The Force Awakens" is out on DVD next week...
Agreed. This would be the first film in the series not explicitly about the heroes of the universe, but about the mooks and I very much want to see that
I would be okay if Mara would be a separate person and not one of the "good" guys. Regular guys against a Sith Lord may be a bit much, but you still want Vader to make an appearance because he's Vader. But giving them someone like Mara, a force sensitive non-Jedi/Sith as the real enemy they could actually face during the majority of the movie would be more plausible.
The whole point of the backstory up to episode four was that Obi-wan and Yoda were the last remaining Jedi and they were in hiding. Vader had hunted down and killed all the rest. I really don't want to see that retconned.
I also don't care much about Han Solo's origin story. We don't need a detailed biography about each and every person in A New Hope. A New Hope began Han's path to redemption. How entertaining would a movie about his slide into ruin be? I feel that it would wind up diminishing the character or retconning the backstory somehow. Neither would be good.
I also hope they never give Abrams another movie. He makes them fun but he also seems to have no concept of how things actually work in someone else's sci-fi property.
Maybe so - but it doesn't really feel like it ... except maybe the cloning thing? I am more talking about gimmicky plot devices like force-negating ysalamiri and wish-fulfillment characters like Thrawn and Mara Jade ... this stuff put the EU on the wrong path. I think the Yuuzhan Vong are the in-universe manifestation of the build up of crappy writing that gradually deteriorated the wonder and beauty of the Star Wars franchise, invading the IP with the intent to destroy. Thus one of the worst elements of the EU is itself the symbol of how bad the EU had gotten. But it started with Zahn's tripe. Even as a kid, excitedly reading Heir to the Empire when it first came out, I could tell how off it was. I am not surprised that a trend that began with ysalamiri ended with Yuuzhan Vong.
By contrast, the Rogue One trailer looks like the genuine article.
Swastakowey wrote: You mean the event where Darth Vader put a tracking beacon on their ship (so they were meant to make it)? Which leigh had a huge hand in? (because unlike the latest batch of female heroines she was pretty tame).
"It was planned all along" is a fan theory that only works if you assume every single Stormtrooper was in on the plot, and was willing to enter firefights planning to deliberately miss and get shot and killed just to make it all happen. Which is beyond stupid, of course.
Instead we assume have to assume that the tracking beacon was a last minute improvisation, and before then the bad guys were losing all those fights just because they really sucked. Which is still quite silly of course, but perfectly in keeping with the pulp source material.
Which gets us back to my point, that you missed the first time around - there is no interest in Star Wars putting up plausible action heroes in plausible action scenes. That's not how pulp works. Accepting that a bunch of guys can walk around an enemy space station having the odd fight with a bunch of enemy guards who are routinely dispatched is just an accepted part of the genre. Seeing no problem with that silly fantasy, but then calling for realism when one of the characters involved is a woman is very strange, though.
If luke beat some storm troopers to death with a mace and had the physique of an 8 year old boy then yea I probably wouldnt have watched starwars.
You seem to be caught up entirely in the physicality of the heroes in question. Which is odd considering Star Wars has never had particularly physical leads, and even stranger because the events of the movies don't make more sense if the lead characters are a bit bigger and more muscular.
Anyway as I said, I don't particularly care, but I find it baffling why people are so shocked when the casting choices are criticized.
No-one is shocked when anything is Star Wars is criticised. Since 1979 just about the entire nerd population of Earth has been spending it's time either heaping praise on Star Wars or complaining about it. Believe, it's all been done before.
You're confusing 'shock' with a list showing how your argument is mistaken, or lacking context.
Nobody seen that coming, and anybody that tells you otherwise is a damn liar!
I knew about it before I ever saw the first movie. One of the sad bits about being surrounded by nerd friends is that you just take no board all this knowledge before you see anything. I knew about the Red Wedding, Tony Stark telling everyone he was Iron Man, pretty much all the good twists in nerd stuff before I got to see it.
Anyhow, you make a fair point. Add in Luke and Leia as brother and sister, and a couple of others and you get some unexpected moments in the movies. That was across 6 hours of movies, so I think my point remains that these movies are about watching it play out, not discovering what’s about to happen.
I really got no sense of Mara Jade at all from Jyn in the teaser. Nor indeed, any feeling that she could be Force Sensitive.
Maybe Ninja Dude's Force Sensitive, that wouldn't surprise me too much but if he was, then he'd be so in the sort of "partly trained Padawan" way.
I don't think it will be Vader kneeling, mostly because the idea of Vader in a hood just seems really daft to me. I'm more imagining it will be a first on-screen portrayal of an "Rebels" style Inquisitor.
I imagine they'll spend most of the film running away from him.
In any case, yeah, still going with my idea for the film in that 'spoiler' tag I made earlier.
"Improved fighting ability". Life is not a video game mate. If she was truly "trained" she would not look the way she does.
This should be the minimum standard of any action hero female at least barring aliens maybe.
Even people who fight by hoping their opponent doesn't balance well (like in some martial arts etc) still need to maintain their physical strength. You can't really excuse this stuff without a lot of hand waving like being a jedi or super being etc.
That's silly as "a minimum". I can find any number of photos of Ronda Rousey, Gina Carano, Miesha Tate, et al where they look just as "girly" as Felicity Jones. For that matter, why don't people bitch this way when this guy at this age is presented as an upstoppable action hero:
And while I enjoyed the JK series, I'm glad that they're using the inspiration of those characters at most - using their actual names will come with too much baggage of the "if Kyle Katarn is in it, then XYX needs to be part of the continuity as well." That way lies only madness. And IG-88's consciousness uploaded to the Death Star's CPU moments before it gets exploded.
I give it the benefit of the doubt and watch it in theaters, but GOD was that "I rebel" line cringy. But, in all seriousness is it just me or is anyone really getting tired of the Death Star/Starkiller Base routine with almost every movie.
Well - again - the Death Star motif was undoubtedly tired in Force Awakens (and RotJ IMO) where it was evoked to little effect BUT this movie gets a pass because it's not about "yet another" Death Star - it's about THE Death Star.
I also liked the "I rebel" line because it concisely illustrates an interesting theme: the leaders of the Alliance may be 'establishment' figures but in order to fight their war against the Empire, they will need the help of shady characters.
Manchu wrote: Well - again - the Death Star motif was undoubtedly tired in Force Awakens (and RotJ IMO) where it was evoked to little effect BUT this movie gets a pass because it's not about "yet another" Death Star - it's about THE Death Star.
I also liked the "I rebel" line because it concisely illustrates an interesting theme: the leaders of the Alliance may be 'establishment' figures but in order to fight their war against the Empire, they will need the help of shady characters.
Good point about the establishment.
Years ago, I read a Michael Moorcock article about why he didn't like Star Wars, and one of the reasons cited was that he didn't feel there was that much difference between the 'good' authority of the rebels, and the 'bad' authority of the Empire, that and the depressing spectacle of a true rebel (Han Solo) accepting a medal at the end of a New Hope.
Azazelx wrote: That's silly as "a minimum". I can find any number of photos of Ronda Rousey, Gina Carano, Miesha Tate, et al where they look just as "girly" as Felicity Jones.
You just named three women who would get their faces caved in fighting men of comparable physique and training.
For that matter, why don't people bitch this way when this guy at this age is presented as an upstoppable action hero:
Because of Die Hard, of course. Each movie became successively less convincing, but the first is a masterpiece, and ol' John gets a pass for as long as he wants with that.
A sixty year-old in-shape man is a bit of a different kettle of fish than a 5'4" 115 pound waif when it comes to who's gonna beat up the average male, though, anyway,
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: the depressing spectacle of a true rebel (Han Solo) accepting a medal at the end of a New Hope
Quite an interesting insight!
Look at it this way - the movement at its core is very conservative: we're talking about the Alliance to Restore the Republic. This is about a commitment to how things used to be done "before the dark times." From the Empire's perspective, these people are just criminals. So at what point did they become rebels instead? Given the script of ANH, it was before the Battle of Yavin. Also, at what point do they start calling themselves rebels? Is Mon Mothma comfortable with that label? Maybe this is something the younger generation, people who were born under the shadow of the Empire, can relate to - for them, the Republic is not even a memory, after all. I am thinking that this would be the "Princess Leia" generation. These young rebels care less about restoring the Republic (which everyone can admit is a flawed system) than they do about tearing down the Empire. They are probably more radical than conservative figures like Mon Mothma would prefer.
It's a passionate but short-sighted perspective - look what happens to Leia: she cannot accept Mon Mothma's demilitarization and strikes off to form a paramilitary vigilante/terrorist organization whose very existence undermines the authority of the Republic. The Resistance exists to continue the revolutionary struggle against the Empire, which the New Order claims to embody - but which of course actually already exists somewhere else, in the Core and at peace with the Republic. The fight we see in Force Awakens is partly a consequence of the the tensions within the Rebellion itself, from its outset, the tension between the dispossessed Senators who believe in democracy and the newly empowered rebels who oppose authority.
The New Order is the result of a similar tension in the nature of the Empire - the Empire that made peace with the New Republic is the vestige of the Clone Wars-era Old Republic, a militarized and authoritarian government but an actual government all the same. This was always fundamentally at odds with the Sith-cult aspect of the Empire at its core, the way the Emperor seemed to envision the galaxy and everything in it as nothing more than a resource in his mad quest for immortality. This is the nutso aspect of the Empire, the part that doesn't care about governing systems so much as building crazy weapons to extort them. It's actually the Resistance itself that lends the New Order what little political legitimacy it has (by undermining the Republic).
Manchu wrote: Well - again - the Death Star motif was undoubtedly tired in Force Awakens (and RotJ IMO) where it was evoked to little effect BUT this movie gets a pass because it's not about "yet another" Death Star - it's about THE Death Star.
I also liked the "I rebel" line because it concisely illustrates an interesting theme: the leaders of the Alliance may be 'establishment' figures but in order to fight their war against the Empire, they will need the help of shady characters.
Good point about the establishment.
Years ago, I read a Michael Moorcock article about why he didn't like Star Wars, and one of the reasons cited was that he didn't feel there was that much difference between the 'good' authority of the rebels, and the 'bad' authority of the Empire, that and the depressing spectacle of a true rebel (Han Solo) accepting a medal at the end of a New Hope.
I don't really see Han as a "true rebel" at all. He is more like a scoundrel. A rebel usually has a cause or a fight they are trying to win. Han is looking out for his and his own, that is about it.
Manchu wrote: Well - again - the Death Star motif was undoubtedly tired in Force Awakens (and RotJ IMO) where it was evoked to little effect BUT this movie gets a pass because it's not about "yet another" Death Star - it's about THE Death Star.
I also liked the "I rebel" line because it concisely illustrates an interesting theme: the leaders of the Alliance may be 'establishment' figures but in order to fight their war against the Empire, they will need the help of shady characters.
Good point about the establishment.
Years ago, I read a Michael Moorcock article about why he didn't like Star Wars, and one of the reasons cited was that he didn't feel there was that much difference between the 'good' authority of the rebels, and the 'bad' authority of the Empire, that and the depressing spectacle of a true rebel (Han Solo) accepting a medal at the end of a New Hope.
I don't really see Han as a "true rebel" at all. He is more like a scoundrel. A rebel usually has a cause or a fight they are trying to win. Han is looking out for his and his own, that is about it.
Also, that medal is made of gold. Han isn't going to turn down a lump of free gold
Manchu wrote: Well - again - the Death Star motif was undoubtedly tired in Force Awakens (and RotJ IMO) where it was evoked to little effect BUT this movie gets a pass because it's not about "yet another" Death Star - it's about THE Death Star.
I also liked the "I rebel" line because it concisely illustrates an interesting theme: the leaders of the Alliance may be 'establishment' figures but in order to fight their war against the Empire, they will need the help of shady characters.
Good point about the establishment.
Years ago, I read a Michael Moorcock article about why he didn't like Star Wars, and one of the reasons cited was that he didn't feel there was that much difference between the 'good' authority of the rebels, and the 'bad' authority of the Empire, that and the depressing spectacle of a true rebel (Han Solo) accepting a medal at the end of a New Hope.
I don't really see Han as a "true rebel" at all. He is more like a scoundrel. A rebel usually has a cause or a fight they are trying to win. Han is looking out for his and his own, that is about it.
I'm addressing this point to Manchu as well.
When I say rebel, I don't mean that Solo is part of the rebel alliance, rather it's the literal meaning of the word.
Solo is a smuggler, a criminal, a man living on the edge. What does he care for authority?
Moorcock compares Solo to Robin Hood. Both are supposed to be at odds with authority, and yet, both end up submitting to authority. Solo takes the medal, and Robin Hood (at the end of the film) ends up kneeling down before the king.
If Solo had been a 'true' rebel. he would have grabbed the medal, kidnapped Princess Leia, punched Skywalker for being an annoying git, and then escaped on the Falcon before anybody could say it's a trap!
I agree with the idea that Han Solo is a 'real rebel' compared to his compatriots in ANH. Leia is for better or worse just another politician on this or that side of the aisle. The preqs show us (well, really they just clarify for us) that the same is true of Obi-Wan. And Luke is totally swept up in the political ambitions of those two. By contrast, Solo is not a creature of any political system and even disavows the law generally. He's not 'rebelling' against anything in terms of suburbanite "principles" - he's a guy on the (space) street trying to survive. The narrative of the movie is, he catches a glimpse at something that is more important than surviving - something for which, he intuits, he might even give his life. Typically iconoclastic, Moorcock - who had himself been a kid on the (Parisian) streets trying to make it as a writer - obviously did not buy into this program. When you think about Force Awakens, it seems like Han Solo himself also did not ultimately buy into it.
- - - - -
Moorcock, or your summary of his position at least, is just wrong about Robin Hood, who stands up for "true" authority, not against authority generally. Note that Han Solo (whatever would later be written about him in gak-tastic EU material) was not a dispossessed noble but a marginalized guy on the lamb. (He wasn't a "hipster" looking to "fight the system.") Robin Hood is a lot more like Leia, to be honest.
Manchu wrote: I agree with the idea that Han Solo is a 'real rebel' compared to his compatriots in ANH. Leia is for better or worse just another politician on this or that side of the aisle. The preqs show us (well, really they just clarify for us) that the same is true of Obi-Wan. And Luke is totally swept up in the political ambitions of those two. By contrast, Solo is not a creature of any political system and even disavows the law generally. He's not 'rebelling' against anything in terms of suburbanite "principals" - he's a guy on the (space) street trying to survive. The narrative of the movie is, he catches a glimpse at something that is more important than surviving - something for which, he intuits, he might even give his life. Typically iconoclastic, Moorcock - who had himself been a kid on the (Parisian) streets trying to make it as a writer - obviously did not buy into this program. When you think about Force Awakens, it seems like Han Solo himself also did not ultimately buy into it.
- - - - -
Moorcock, or your summary of his position at least, is just wrong about Robin Hood, who stands up for "true" authority, not against authority generally. Note that Han Solo (whatever would later be written about him in gak-tastic EU material) was not a dispossessed noble but a marginalized guy on the lamb. (He wasn't a "hipster" looking to "fight the system.") Robin Hood is a lot more like Leia, to be honest.
Good points. It's one of the many things about Star Wars that gets my goat sometimes. I'd be lying if I said I hadn't enjoyed the Star Wars films and games over the years, but I don't love Star Wars the same way that some people do, becuase Star wars contains fundamental flaws.
Yes, people are right when they say it's only a film, it's only harmless entertainment, but when you're dealing with something that has a massive impact on Western culture, you need to engage some critical thinking.
and to my mind, these are the flaws that inhibit Star Wars:
1) Balance to the force. What they really mean is the light side has to win. If there was balance, Jedi and Sith would be drawing from light and dark as they saw fit, with grey force users in the middle to balance things up. But by focusing on one side, and equating the light side with the forces of 'good' they add morality to a power that is essentially devoid of morals.
The Jedi order themselves are a problem. They're supposed to be 'good' but they also represent law and order, and we all know that authority is not always a good thing.
Similary, why does every Sith have to be evil? You could have an anarchist Sith that uses his power to rob the rich and give to the poor.
Anybody who knows Moorcock's novels with their themes of Law, Chaos, order etc etc or D & D will kn ow what I'm talking about. I hope!
2) Corrupted Romanticism.
When I say Romanticism, I don't mean romantic novels! Rather, it's something we're all familar with: rebels, or outlaws, or guerillas fighting injustice or hopeless odds to win their freedom. Think Michael Eddington in Star trek when he joins the marquis, becuase he's a romantic, and he likes the drama of the good fight against hopeless odds.
Star Wars fails in this regard. Yes, they fight the authority of the Empire, but only to replace it with their own authority.
Returning to Solo, they best thing they could have done was have him save the day, then watch as he disappers into deep space, never to be seen again, whispers and rumours of his name emerging from time to time, whenever a bank raid went down or a heist or something.
Then would have been proper romanticism. Instead, he was neutered!
Let me just put Lucas's gloss aside here, because really who cares - maybe nobody in the movies actually knows what "bring balance to the Force" actually means. I think this is probably a major theme of the current trilogy with "The Force Awakens" title itself being a major clue.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Yes, they fight the authority of the Empire, but only to replace it with their own authority.
But authority is not evil in itself. Authority is not really bad or good at all. It is either legitimate or not. In Star Wars, legitimate authority comes from consensus. Illegitimate authority comes from violence. This is why the Death Star is the ultimate symbol of tyranny.
Let me just put Lucas's gloss aside here, because really who cares - maybe nobody in the movies actually knows what "bring balance to the Force" actually means. I think this is probably a major theme of the current trilogy with "The Force Awakens" title itself being a major clue.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: Yes, they fight the authority of the Empire, but only to replace it with their own authority.
But authority is not evil in itself. Authority is not really bad or good at all. It is either legitimate or not. In Star Wars, legitimate authority comes from consensus. Illegitimate authority comes from violence. This is why the Death Star is the ultimate symbol of tyranny.
Two quick points before I call it a night:
1) Are you seriously suggesting that George Lucas didn't know what he was doing most of the time?
2) I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Palpatine got voted in at the end of Revenge of the Sith, and therefore, his authority is legit.
Palpatine committed galactic-wide election fraud. He then disbanded the Senate in favor of a weapon whose very conception constitutes a crime against humanity. Not sure how his reign can be considered legitimate by any sane person.
If Solo had been a 'true' rebel. he would have grabbed the medal, kidnapped Princess Leia, punched Skywalker for being an annoying git, and then escaped on the Falcon before anybody could say it's a trap!
That just sounds like a one-dimensional lunatic.
His arc was that he had obviously bought in to something. I think we get to decide wether that was the Rebellion, or individual relationships.
TFA obviously shows us that he had ultimately done just what you describe, disappear into space. We don't really know if that's from his own failures or that what he had bought in to turned out to not be what he thought it was.
I'm not sure how 'always acting the same regardless of stimulus or circumstances' would make him a better character or create a better story.
If we're looking for personal flaws that destroyed up Han and Leia's marriage, we don't need to place the blame entirely on him. After all, Leia is the one who cannot let go of her past as a guerrilla leader.
If Solo had been a 'true' rebel. he would have grabbed the medal, kidnapped Princess Leia, punched Skywalker for being an annoying git, and then escaped on the Falcon before anybody could say it's a trap!
Manchu wrote: Palpatine committed galactic-wide election fraud. He then disbanded the Senate in favor of a weapon whose very conception constitutes a crime against humanity. Not sure how his reign can be considered legitimate by any sane person.
What election fraud? Everyone voted for him and cheered his reign. He's their President Lincoln, he takes office and the galaxy splits, so what can any leader do but go to war to preserve their republics.
Manchu wrote: Palpatine committed galactic-wide election fraud. He then disbanded the Senate in favor of a weapon whose very conception constitutes a crime against humanity. Not sure how his reign can be considered legitimate by any sane person.
What election fraud? Everyone voted for him and cheered his reign. He's their President Lincoln, he takes office and the galaxy splits, so what can any leader do but go to war to preserve their republics.
Convinces person to enact a vote of no confidence, gets voted in, convinces another person to grant him emergency powers, immediately removes all democracy.
sirlynchmob wrote: He's their President Lincoln, he takes office and the galaxy splits, so what can any leader do but go to war to preserve their republics.
The galaxy didn't split because Palpatine took office. The galaxy split because Darth Sidious (secretly Palpatine) engineered it in a massive Xanatos Gambit. Either way, he'd be in control of the galaxy, the Jedi would be destroyed, and there'd seemingly be no one capable of opposing him.
No matter how it went Palpatine/Sidious was going to win so long as neither side figured out what was really going on and they didn't. Running two nominally democratic states through shadow games of bribery, assassination, and corruption is most certainly fraud. Election fraud was probably just the lowest level of fraud the guy committed
sirlynchmob wrote: He's their President Lincoln, he takes office and the galaxy splits, so what can any leader do but go to war to preserve their republics.
The galaxy didn't split because Palpatine took office. The galaxy split because Darth Sidious (secretly Palpatine) engineered it in a massive Xanatos Gambit. Either way, he'd be in control of the galaxy, the Jedi would be destroyed, and there'd seemingly be no one capable of opposing him.
No matter how it went Palpatine/Sidious was going to win so long as neither side figured out what was really going on and they didn't. Running two nominally democratic states through shadow games of bribery, assassination, and corruption is most certainly fraud. Election fraud was probably just the lowest level of fraud the guy committed
Is it really fraud though? Or just a proactive leader thinking outside the box? He only wanted peace in the galaxy, he was going to unite the galaxy and bring peace and order to it. Whats so bad about that? If you're running both halves of the galaxy, once those bigoted jedi are gone he would have had his peace. How evil are those jedi, thinking murdering a man because of his religion is somehow a good thing.
Yoda really was just a clueless jedi though. The most powerful jedi ever, stands in the presence of palpatine and doesn't even get a clue that something is wrong. Then the clone wars made it worse, hey look all the troopers are chipped, one chip malfunctioned and the trooper killed his jedi. Maybe it should be looked into? Nope, Yoda ignores it all. You almost get the feeling Yoda knew from the beginning that palpatine was evil, yet let the republic fall so he could retire to his swamp
Don't disagree about Yoda. The explanation they ultimately went with on the issue of how the Jedi didn't know was really contrived imo, and the Jedi just came off as too dumb to live in the end.
"the dark side clouds all" ... like the fact that you can sense other jedi, and non-jedi and get not even a skerrick of an idea that palps is evil mofo #1?
Surely, as he taught the padawans when Obiwan looked for kamino, he could have looked into the "what wasn't there" thing?
chromedog wrote: "the dark side clouds all" ... like the fact that you can sense other jedi, and non-jedi and get not even a skerrick of an idea that palps is evil mofo #1?
Surely, as he taught the padawans when Obiwan looked for kamino, he could have looked into the "what wasn't there" thing?
I've said it once, I've said it a 100 times: to this day, I've never received a satisfactorily explanation as to how Palpatine was able to stand next to the entire Jedi order at Liam Neeson's funeral...and still not be detected!
I've searched the web. I've asked dakka, and to be fair to dakka, certain people did come up with some decent theories (Sith stealth powers, high emotion at the funeral etc etc )
Personally, the power of the force is but a mere breeze compared to the hurricane that is the LUCAS
The Prequels have some interesting elements (mainly visuals, Obi-Wan is a reasonably compelling character, etc) but the plotline overall is amazingly dull and not very well written. I can honestly say that knowing Palpatine was originally a poo-faced bureaucrat does not really add much to my enjoyment of the original trilogy (Rogue One does have the danger of falling into this trap, but arguably is a blank enough canvas that it can tread new ground). The most surprising element is that the prequels took the central mythic element of the first trilogy - Jedi! ultra-rare and poorly explained magical space monks! - and made them simultaneously common and boring. Compare it to superheroes, for a moment: when we see forty Jedi get gunned down like chumps in a stadium, we should contemplate that this is why there is only one Captain America. In short, having more Jedi doesn't make it more interesting.
Overall, though I can derive some pleasure from the prequels, they do very little to aid the original trilogy, and their contributions to the storyline are best forgotten.
The Prequels have some interesting elements (mainly visuals, Obi-Wan is a reasonably compelling character, etc) but the plotline overall is amazingly dull and not very well written. I can honestly say that knowing Palpatine was originally a poo-faced bureaucrat does not really add much to my enjoyment of the original trilogy (Rogue One does have the danger of falling into this trap, but arguably is a blank enough canvas that it can tread new ground). The most surprising element is that the prequels took the central mythic element of the first trilogy - Jedi! ultra-rare and poorly explained magical space monks! - and made them simultaneously common and boring. Compare it to superheroes, for a moment: when we see forty Jedi get gunned down like chumps in a stadium, we should contemplate that this is why there is only one Captain America. In short, having more Jedi doesn't make it more interesting.
Overall, though I can derive some pleasure from the prequels, they do very little to aid the original trilogy, and their contributions to the storyline are best forgotten.
True words. I'd forgotten how meh most Jedi were in the prequels.
The Prequels have some interesting elements (mainly visuals, Obi-Wan is a reasonably compelling character, etc) but the plotline overall is amazingly dull and not very well written. I can honestly say that knowing Palpatine was originally a poo-faced bureaucrat does not really add much to my enjoyment of the original trilogy (Rogue One does have the danger of falling into this trap, but arguably is a blank enough canvas that it can tread new ground). The most surprising element is that the prequels took the central mythic element of the first trilogy - Jedi! ultra-rare and poorly explained magical space monks! - and made them simultaneously common and boring. Compare it to superheroes, for a moment: when we see forty Jedi get gunned down like chumps in a stadium, we should contemplate that this is why there is only one Captain America. In short, having more Jedi doesn't make it more interesting.
Overall, though I can derive some pleasure from the prequels, they do very little to aid the original trilogy, and their contributions to the storyline are best forgotten.
True words. I'd forgotten how meh most Jedi were in the prequels.
Pretty much. If it wasn't Yoda, Obi Wan, Anakin or Nick Fury, it was a crappy Jedi (in combat). And of course, treating Anakin like a baby and insulting him continuously when he's CLEARLY conflicted...damn, Jedi-you stupid. Honestly, the Jedi deserved to get wiped out. They failed Anakin badly. Could have gone very differently (assuming this was a new story, and not an origins story) had they treated him with respect.
On the positive, the jedi were a classist entity (you're genetically in or you're genetically out) in the prequels. Down with the oppressor. Up with democracy!
Originally it looked to me like Rogue One was going to be a side story to whatever no.7 is called, making good use of the props and models but involving a cheap bunch of unknown actors. However it seems it is a pre-post-prequel of some kind.
I'm not interested in how someone stole the plans of the Death Star 30 years ago. How about a story involving a bunch of refugess from The New Republic evading capture by The New Order pursuers?
Kilkrazy wrote: Originally it looked to me like Rogue One was going to be a side story to whatever no.7 is called, making good use of the props and models but involving a cheap bunch of unknown actors. However it seems it is a pre-post-prequel of some kind.
I'm not interested in how someone stole the plans of the Death Star 30 years ago. How about a story involving a bunch of refugess from The New Republic evading capture by The New Order pursuers?
Or a film about the struggles the rebels had in the early days to organise the rebellion. Could have been a classic combo of intrigue, thriller, and action.
1) Balance to the force. What they really mean is the light side has to win. If there was balance, Jedi and Sith would be drawing from light and dark as they saw fit, with grey force users in the middle to balance things up. But by focusing on one side, and equating the light side with the forces of 'good' they add morality to a power that is essentially devoid of morals.
The Jedi order themselves are a problem. They're supposed to be 'good' but they also represent law and order, and we all know that authority is not always a good thing.
Similary, why does every Sith have to be evil? You could have an anarchist Sith that uses his power to rob the rich and give to the poor.
Anybody who knows Moorcock's novels with their themes of Law, Chaos, order etc etc or D & D will kn ow what I'm talking about. I hope!
Because the Jedi are good wizards and the Dark Jedi are bad wizards. White Magic and Black magic. Yoda explains that a Jedi does not use the force to attack, only to defend.
Why?
It's a religious morality for the midichlorian rich telekines. Once you realise that you can crush windpipes or throw lightning around just by concentrating, that power invariably corrupts the user.
By limiting force use to defensive actions or stuff like jumping, running fast, pushing aggressors down or removing their weapons, people don't get god complexes and they don't become so swollen with evil power that their eyes turn red and yellow.
The Force, as an energy field that force users draw from will never be in balance while people are using it to snuff out other people.
Yoda hinted at this when he poked Luke in the arm saying' Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter'. The force flows through everything and binds everything together because everything has a soul.
When I say Romanticism, I don't mean romantic novels! Rather, it's something we're all familar with: rebels, or outlaws, or guerillas fighting injustice or hopeless odds to win their freedom. Think Michael Eddington in Star trek when he joins the marquis, becuase he's a romantic, and he likes the drama of the good fight against hopeless odds.
Star Wars fails in this regard. Yes, they fight the authority of the Empire, but only to replace it with their own authority.
Returning to Solo, they best thing they could have done was have him save the day, then watch as he disappers into deep space, never to be seen again, whispers and rumours of his name emerging from time to time, whenever a bank raid went down or a heist or something.
Then would have been proper romanticism. Instead, he was neutered!
In the opening crawl, the Empire is referred to as the EVIL GALACTIC EMPIRE. Moments later, stormtroopers burst into the hall of the underdog ship with guns blazing and Vader starts choking prisoners to death with his bare hands.
Whatever the Rebel Alliance seeks to instill, it's got to be better than this.
We understand that the princess works within the senate but puts her own life at risk as part of the Alliance. She could have presumably ruled her world comfortably as a monarch but she feels the Empire is worth fighting.
'You weren't on any mercy mission this time' Implies that she is in fact, a bleeding heart humanitarian.
When the Death Star fires, the ambition of the Empire is revealed. They will maintain control of the galaxy if they have to burn it to the ground. The senate is dissolved and the last vestiges of democracy are washed away.
The new republic represents the bright ideals of representative government rather than the brutal rule of space wizards and their planet killing battlestations. They will fight until all the galaxy is free from tyranny, but they won't then disappear and let anarchy reign- spice lords and petty warlords seizing authority in the power vaccuum. That would be irresponsible and feckless, and we've established the princess is a humanitarian.
Frazzled wrote: On the positive, the jedi were a classist entity (you're genetically in or you're genetically out) in the prequels. Down with the oppressor. Up with democracy!
Jedi with no force sensitivity to meet diversity quotas would be pretty awesome.
Yoda: Feel the force do you?
Eugene: Asking that question is a form of assault!
Yoda: Sucks my life does.
Frazzled wrote: On the positive, the jedi were a classist entity (you're genetically in or you're genetically out) in the prequels. Down with the oppressor. Up with democracy!
Jedi with no force sensitivity to meet diversity quotas would be pretty awesome.
Yoda: Feel the force do you?
Eugene: Asking that question is a form of assault!
Yoda: Sucks my life does.
Eugene: Your microaggressions are too much. I am going to my designated safe space.
Yoda: Cut you I will
Palpatine: Give in to your....hate...
-"The Rise of Darth Yoda"
The Force is just another name for plot armor. That’s why it’s so important that “The force be with you”. When it’s on your side, you can defect an infinite number of blasters, jump anywhere, parry anything. When it’s not on your side you get chumped by mooks.
Kilkrazy wrote: Why didn't the Jedi use cloning techniques to improve the number of midichlorians in Jedis?
Or just take a lesson from professional cycling and start a blood doping programme.
Going into battle tomorrow? Need to sense the Dark Lord of the Sith? Don't forget to take your prescribed midichlorian-enriched blood transfusion the night before!
chromedog wrote: "the dark side clouds all" ... like the fact that you can sense other jedi, and non-jedi and get not even a skerrick of an idea that palps is evil mofo #1?
Surely, as he taught the padawans when Obiwan looked for kamino, he could have looked into the "what wasn't there" thing?
I've said it once, I've said it a 100 times: to this day, I've never received a satisfactorily explanation as to how Palpatine was able to stand next to the entire Jedi order at Liam Neeson's funeral...and still not be detected!
I figured Sith can suppress their power levels like Saiyans. *shrug* But for all of the faults and clumsy storytelling in the prequels, I don't see that one as an issue. It doesn't really matter to the narrative HOW Palpatine did it, just that he did it.
I say this knowing that SW fanatics get wrapped up in voluminous amounts of background material that have nothing much to do with any of the narratives.
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Kilkrazy wrote: Why didn't the Jedi use cloning techniques to improve the number of midichlorians in Jedis?
I imagine the Jedi response would be that it's because they aren't about acquiring personal power or building armies of Jedi.
I was under the impression that there had not been a Sith in a long time. On top of that, I thought Sidious was supposed to be one of the most powerful Sith known, since he was the apprentice of Plageius.
Frazzled wrote: On the positive, the jedi were a classist entity (you're genetically in or you're genetically out) in the prequels. Down with the oppressor. Up with democracy!
Jedi with no force sensitivity to meet diversity quotas would be pretty awesome.
Yoda: Feel the force do you?
Eugene: Asking that question is a form of assault!
Yoda: Sucks my life does.
I cackled manically.
On topic: The trailer looks good and I'm hyped for the film. Mainly because Donnie Yen is one of my Asian man-crushes. (The other being Ken Watanabe) Those guys are bad. I wouldn't be too annoyed if he turned out to be a former Padawan or pseudo-Jedi, but I think fully fledged Jedi Master would be too much.
What would be really cool would be if he turns out to be just a badass normal with a staff and either takes down the hooded figure (who is hopefully an Inquisitor) one on one or stages a heroic "You shall not pass!" scene against him while the other rebels escape. Also, Forest Whitaker is awesome and a criminally underrated actor. I wonder why his name never gets bandied about in the list of best actors or even African-American actors. He's honestly much more varied than big names like Johnny Depp (oh, look, I'm being crazy has been his go to in 95% of his movies of the last 15 years) and Samuel L. Jackson (I love him, but all he has going for him is I'm a bad MF and I cuss a lot and shoot gak).
My thought was more of "Predator" than Gandalf, but yeah...
My theory is that most people are still scared of Whitaker from "The Last King of Scotland." :p
Jackson isn't a stranger to being aware of his 'type' and finding excuses to play against it for laughs, if you've not seen have a look at "Deep Blue Sea" and "The Kingsmen."
LordofHats wrote: Don't disagree about Yoda. The explanation they ultimately went with on the issue of how the Jedi didn't know was really contrived imo, and the Jedi just came off as too dumb to live in the end.
In a better written trilogy this could have been quite interesting, and quite powerful. If they had shown how the Jedi and their about no personal contact hadn't made them passionless and noble, but instead made them clueless and disfunctional people, it could have been quite interesting. Especially if denial of family was the key rule around which everything else revolved.
And it would have then provided a really interesting contrast to Luke, who learnt from the mistakes of past Jedi, and embraced family as a means to finally bring down the Empire.
Those ideas are kind of in the prequels, sort of, as background stuff that never really comes together. There wasn't enough time given to the more flawed Jedi, nor were their flaws shown more clearly. Instead we get lots of Obi Wan and Anakin on pulp adventures, and on one level that makes sense because Star Wars is pulp storytelling. So maybe having bigger ideas was never going to work. Or maybe Lucas just screwed it up.
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trexmeyer wrote: Also, Forest Whitaker is awesome and a criminally underrated actor. I wonder why his name never gets bandied about in the list of best actors or even African-American actors. He's honestly much more varied than big names like Johnny Depp (oh, look, I'm being crazy has been his go to in 95% of his movies of the last 15 years) and Samuel L. Jackson (I love him, but all he has going for him is I'm a bad MF and I cuss a lot and shoot gak).
I think it's because Forest Whitaker's best roles tend to be in films that are more art things, that weren't seen by a lot of people. I'm thinking Last King of Scotland and Ghost Dog. But when he's gone in to more mainstream fair, the results have been pretty dreadful - Battlefield Earth and Species come to mind.
Whitaker is a proper actor, who delivers great performances when he's given the material to suit him. But he doesn't have a simple film persona like Samuel L Jackson or Johnny Depp, which makes his casting in this film pretty interesting, I think. It makes me wonder what they're looking to get out of him.
Or possibly every other celebrity was already cast in one of the prequels, and he's the only one left.
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: 1) Balance to the force. What they really mean is the light side has to win. If there was balance, Jedi and Sith would be drawing from light and dark as they saw fit, with grey force users in the middle to balance things up. But by focusing on one side, and equating the light side with the forces of 'good' they add morality to a power that is essentially devoid of morals.
There is still time in the story for balance to be restored. Vader is still affecting the universe through his son (memories) and grandson (ideals) so he could still end up creating a situation with neither light nor dark side in dominance.
My theory is that in Ep 8 Luke will go to the dark side, kill Snoke and turn Rey and Kylo both against him. Ep 9 will then be Kylo turning closer to the light side to ally with the rebels and Rey turning closer to the dark side to do all the necessary killings to end Darth Luke's reign of terror. Thus at the end both characters will be different shades of grey and combine to an even less distinct mixture to be the only Jedi left... balance.
I know the EU is largely non-canonized now, but honestly I'm surprised there hasn't been a greater focus on anti-force sensitive factions where they go the other way and claim the force sensitives as the aberrants. And to be fair a significant amount of turmoil in the galaxy has been caused by both sides of either the Sith or Jedi in their constant struggles for supremacy. I guess the main problem with this route is how it crosses into well-treaded territory of X-men and the issue of mutants dealing with persecution.
Looking forward to this one for sure. Will be good to see more of the conflict fleshed out on a wider scale as opposed to just seeing Luke's journey. Nothing wrong with going back and re visiting this time line in my view.
The civil war was absolutely Huge and we only saw a tiny part of it on screen. Yeah I'm one of those people that couldn't read enough of the eu books. So while still sore that boba was killed off and didn't escape the sarlac,, damn you Disney. I'm soaking up every bit of Star Wars love I can get.
chromedog wrote: TBH even then he WAS building off everything that the old RPG had built, too.
(The writer's bible the EU writers used WAS the same one that the RPG writers used).
Actually the EU bible was all the material written up to that point for the RPG. The RPG writers invented a whole lot of stuff based on concept art,
early drafts, and the movies themselves, the novelizations, and the Marvel run of Star Wars comics.
You might say that the RPG was what became the EU.
When Timothy Zahn was given the task of writing the Thrawn trilogy, he asked for as much source material as he could get. Lucasfilm literally sent a huge box of the RPG books over to him and said, "here ya' go!" Other writers that contributed to the game material were later tapped to write EU books; do the names Michael Stackpole, Aaron Alston, or Vonda MacIntyre sound familiar?
I used to have the Star Wars: Star Warriors hex based space combat game, and I kept the rules in case I ever wanted to do a large scale flying game with SW models. This is looking a bit more achievable now that Revell do TIE fighters and X Wings in snap fit kits for less than £5.
In the wake of the report earlier this morning that Disney's "Rogue One: A Star Wars Story" is undergoing some major reshoots, further details about this additional photography have come to light.
Heat Vision and Deadline have both incorporated more detail into the original NY Post report. Both confirm that yes, the four weeks of reshoots are definitely happening but there was no 'test screening' as the original report suggested. The film WAS screened for the studio though. Their source says:
"The move is happening after execs screened the movie and felt it was tonally off with what a 'classic' Star Wars movie should feel like. The goal of the reshoots will be to lighten the mood, bring some levity into the story and restore a sense of fun to the adventure.
This takes place just before A New Hope and leads up to the ten minutes before that classic films begins. You have to match the tone... while [director Gareth] Edwards' first cut was a solid showing, it didn't measure up to the bar set in terms of four-quadrant appeal. Anything less than extraordinary won't do."
These days, most major films schedule reshoots into the post-production schedule for tweaks and changes, but the original report was right in that there is a larger issue here which is going to take additional work to fix.
"Rogue One: A Star Wars Story" opens December 16th.
... hmmmm
Assuming this is more or less true one can see where they're coming from, but one cannot help but feel a little disappointed that we're not going to get a different perspective on the setting.
...... guess I'll be handing my £s over either way however so ....
In the wake of the report earlier this morning that Disney's "Rogue One: A Star Wars Story" is undergoing some major reshoots, further details about this additional photography have come to light.
Heat Vision and Deadline have both incorporated more detail into the original NY Post report. Both confirm that yes, the four weeks of reshoots are definitely happening but there was no 'test screening' as the original report suggested. The film WAS screened for the studio though. Their source says:
"The move is happening after execs screened the movie and felt it was tonally off with what a 'classic' Star Wars movie should feel like. The goal of the reshoots will be to lighten the mood, bring some levity into the story and restore a sense of fun to the adventure.
This takes place just before A New Hope and leads up to the ten minutes before that classic films begins. You have to match the tone... while [director Gareth] Edwards' first cut was a solid showing, it didn't measure up to the bar set in terms of four-quadrant appeal. Anything less than extraordinary won't do."
These days, most major films schedule reshoots into the post-production schedule for tweaks and changes, but the original report was right in that there is a larger issue here which is going to take additional work to fix.
"Rogue One: A Star Wars Story" opens December 16th.
... hmmmm
Assuming this is more or less true one can see where they're coming from, but one cannot help but feel a little disappointed that we're not going to get a different perspective on the setting.
...... guess I'll be handing my £s over either way however so ....
It's just a reminder that the mouse is in charge. Which is a better situation than The George Show, but "four-quadrant appeal" is going to be paramount for them. It makes business sense, but yeah...it's disappointing that these films will pushed toward 'sameness.'
Compel wrote: So I watched Serenity again yesterday. Combining that with the '10 minutes before" thing, I think my theory of the film is going to be pretty close.
Basically, you have an ending to Serenity with the "You can't stop the signal", but instead you have our plucky band of Rebels attempting to defend an Imperial transceiver they've captured while transferring the Death Star plans to the Tantive IV.
You then have the more 300-ish element where the Empire takes down the Rebels one by one until only the heroine is left. The Inquisitor type baddy walks up to the heroine, who is sitting there, bleeding, wounded.
98%... 99%... 100%
*Heroic last lines*
Thermal Detonator.
Then have the camera pan up as the transmitter station explodes, whiting out the screen. As the screen becomes visible again, "Princess Leia's" theme starts playing.
"What's that, you rusty bucket of bolts? You're getting a transmission? What's it about?"
Bleep bleeeep.
"We must get this to the Princess at once."
Screenwipe, you have the Imperial Admiral type person from the trailer reporting to an offscreen figure. The Admiral starts grasping his throat... Choking... collapses...
*Deep breathing.* "Admiral, set course for... The Tatooine system."
Toprawa was, at least as of pre-Disney, the site of the transmission with the plans being sent out and you just word for word described how that whole thing went down; right down to the way it was described in "Rebel Dawn"(a Han Solo book by A.C. Crispin that literally covers this exact time period; with the book ending on Solo sitting down to discuss terms with Kenobi and Luke).
Kanluwen wrote:I mean, that's not really a "theory".
Toprawa was, at least as of pre-Disney, the site of the transmission with the plans being sent out and you just word for word described how that whole thing went down; right down to the way it was described in "Rebel Dawn"(a Han Solo book by A.C. Crispin that literally covers this exact time period; with the book ending on Solo sitting down to discuss terms with Kenobi and Luke).
Compel wrote:Never read the book.
I'm more of the Dark Forces time of the "Capture the death star plans."
To be fair to Compel, "Dark Forces" had a similar thing as Toprawa but they used a different planet.
They had kinda/sorta reconciled the canon of those two with Bria Tharen's cell stealing the complete plans for the Death Star's superlaser and beaming them off to the Tantive IV and Katarn finding the coordinates for the Death Star's construction site and the plans for the station itself.
Disney: Nope, too serious! This has to be sellable primarily to kids, not adults! Add more humor, more funny droids/aliens!
What a mighty wide brush.
I'm in my 30's and I'm perfectly happy with the tone they set in TFA. It had some dark moments but also have moments of levity and fun to break it up.
We don't know exactly what's going on, but knowing Gareth Edwards previous work (which, by the way, was fine, I enjoy his work) I'm guessing it was pretty depressing and devoid of the fun and humour Star Wars is by now known for.
That's not to say a dark and depressing Star Wars film wouldn't work, but it's a bit much saying 'they're only marketing it to kids' when the reports simply say they're adding a bit of humour and fun.
In the wake of the report earlier this morning that Disney's "Rogue One: A Star Wars Story" is undergoing some major reshoots, further details about this additional photography have come to light.
Heat Vision and Deadline have both incorporated more detail into the original NY Post report. Both confirm that yes, the four weeks of reshoots are definitely happening but there was no 'test screening' as the original report suggested. The film WAS screened for the studio though. Their source says:
"The move is happening after execs screened the movie and felt it was tonally off with what a 'classic' Star Wars movie should feel like. The goal of the reshoots will be to lighten the mood, bring some levity into the story and restore a sense of fun to the adventure.
This takes place just before A New Hope and leads up to the ten minutes before that classic films begins. You have to match the tone... while [director Gareth] Edwards' first cut was a solid showing, it didn't measure up to the bar set in terms of four-quadrant appeal. Anything less than extraordinary won't do."
These days, most major films schedule reshoots into the post-production schedule for tweaks and changes, but the original report was right in that there is a larger issue here which is going to take additional work to fix.
"Rogue One: A Star Wars Story" opens December 16th.
... hmmmm
Assuming this is more or less true one can see where they're coming from, but one cannot help but feel a little disappointed that we're not going to get a different perspective on the setting.
...... guess I'll be handing my £s over either way however so ....
Oh FFS...does this mean that they're dropping the gritty War movie feel that they've been boasting about until now? I was really looking forward to a more mature Star Wars film. That was the biggest appeal of the movie for me.
The majority of Life Debt deals with the liberation of Kashyyyk, the Wookiee homeworld still occupied by Imperials in the wake of the Battle of Endor. For Han, this is a personal mission—he resigns his commission and goes off with Chewbacca to liberate his partner’s home. After both heroes go missing, a group of ragtag fighters that were protagonists in the original Aftermath novel, including Norra Wexley and her son Temmin (better known now as Greg Grunberg’s Snap Wexley in The Force Awakens), are tasked with finding the duo and helping them in their goal.
By the end of the book, Kashyyyk is safely in New Republic hands—thanks to the help of Leia, who chases after Han in the Falcon when he goes missing—but aside from that, we get some pretty major revelations about our heroes:
Han and Leia tied the knot on Endor
While previous novels confirmed that Han and Leia were indeed married post-Return of the Jedi, we now know that they didn’t hang around after the destruction of the second Death Star; they actually got married pretty much after the final scenes of Return of the Jedi. On top of that, Leia is already pregnant with the couple’s first child, although many of their friends and colleagues in the New Republic are unaware of that fact yet. We all know how that one turns out, don’t we?
The Force is definitely with Leia
Neither The Force Awakens or previous novels like Star Wars Bloodlines have shied away from the fact that Leia can call the Force an ally (and a powerful ally it is). She just doesn’t happen to join her brother as a Jedi—Luke’s presence in Life Debt comes through the meditation training he’s been giving Leia to help hone her Force sensitivity.
She uses that training to guide her to Han after he goes missing, and notes how powerful that feeling is—a precursor to her feeling his loss through the Force 30 years later in The Force Awakens.
Han and Chewie go their separate ways
Yes, the dream team breaks up. With a child on the way and with Chewbacca finally free to live his life on Kashyyyk and see his family again, Han and Chewie decided to forge paths alone for the time being at the end of Life Debt. Even though we know they eventually get back to their smuggling ways ahead of The Force Awakens, and Han promises that Chewbacca will play a big role in his future son’s life, it’s still a little sad. They even get their own “I love you”/“I know” moment to boot:
“No. No! You have to stay here. We fought like hell for this and now. . . this is yours. Okay? All yours. This is home. You got people here and I want you to find them, You hear me? That’s my last demand. No arguments.” Chewie rumbles but Han reiterates, more firmly this time: “I said no arguments. You be with your family. I have to go start mine”
[....]
“I’ll be back. We’re not done, you and I. We’ll see each other again. I’m gonna be a father and no way my kid won’t have you in his life.”
One more bark and yip as Chewie pets his head.
“Yeah, pal. I know.” He sighs. “I love you, too.”
D’aaw.
The Diminishing of the Empire
The most important things going on with the Imperial Remnant are much more behind-the-scenes. While Aftermath teased that the Empire was making plans after Endor to funnel resources and fleets into hiding on the edges of known space, providing a force for the rise of the First Order by the time The Force Awakens comes around, we finally get to see these plans begin in Life Debt.
Thanks to the novel Bloodline, we know the First Order doesn’t make itself officially known to the galaxy until a group of New Republic senators secede from the Galactic Senate and unite with the hidden remnant fleets a mere six years before the events of The Force Awakens. But Life Debt gives us the real start of what would eventually become Supreme Leader Snoke’s new galactic force to be reckoned with:
Meet the Shadow Council
The ruling force behind the proto-first Order is revealed as the Shadow Council—a cabal of Imperial officers who see the time of Palpatine’s Empire as over, and are ready to build a new, better Empire to rule the galaxy. They are:
Grand Admiral Rae Sloane, an Imperial Officer who has appeared as rising through the ranks throughout various Star Wars novels in the new canon, including Aftermath
Commandant Brendol Hux, father of future General Hux in The Force Awakens and avid trainer of Stormtrooper legions through natural selection
Grand Moff Rand, who goes on to lead the Empire at the costly Battle of Jakku
General Hodnar Borrum, an Imperial Officer dubbed “The Old Man” having served under Palpatine in the Old Republic
Ferric Obdur, Chief Informational Officer (“informational” meaning “propaganda”)
Fleet Admiral Gallius Rax, the real driving force behind the Shadow Council
Rax is revealed to be the shadowy figure called “The Operator” in Aftermath, and is the most intriguing of them all, and there’s been some wild speculation that he’s actually a younger Supreme Leader Snoke. However, Life Debt keeps his race and appearance deliberately vague, and he displays no signs of Force sensitivity (although there’s an argument that could be made in that regard at the very end of the book—more on that later). But he’s positioned as the main face behind the new Post-Empire order.
They’re really interested in kids
The Shadow Council has big plans for children—mainly through Brendol Hux, who Rax orders rescued from the beseiged Arkanis Academy, where he was in charge of training young Imperial minds. Rax also orders the safety of Brendol’s illegitimate son, Armitage (yes: Domnhall Gleeson’s character is called Armitage Hux, and yes, it’s an amazing name) on the logic that “the Empire must be fertile and young.”
This is presumably a predecessor to the younger Hux’s own belief in training loyal soldiers from childhood to adulthood rather than breeding a clone army, which leads to kids like Finn being taken from their families and brainwashed into being adherents of the First Order.
The Emperor’s Super Star Destroyer is missing
One of the most alarming things is that the Empire has lost control of a number of Super Star Destroyers. There were previously 13 of the massive ships in existence; Rae Sloane commands the Ravager, the only one left in the Imperial Remnant’s control.
Of the remaining 12, the Executor, Vader’s flagship, was destroyed at Endor. Five more were lost in battles with the New Republic, a band of pirates has taken over the Annihilator, and one accidentally flew into a gravity well. Three are now in the New Republic Fleet. But Emperor’s personal Super Star Destroyer, the Eclipse, is missing. It was supposedly destroyed, but Sloane found irregularities in those records.
Meanwhile, Elsewhere
Aftermath: Life Debt is full of “interludes” on planets that don’t seem to be connected to the core plot, but certainly have implications for the universe as a whole.
Snap Wexley is taken under the wing of Wedge Antilles
Rebellion hero Wedge Antilles goes through the ringer a fair amount in Aftermath: Life Debt. But, in between all that, he takes the time to mentor Temmin “Snap” Wexley. Snap showed up in The Force Awakens as a pilot under Poe’s command, and in Aftermath: Life Debt he trains in X-wings and X-wing simulators under the eye of Wedge. Wedge is even the source of the “Snap” nickname, which is a reference to how Temmin literally snaps his fingers all the time.
A Dark Side Cult is in open rebellion on Corellia
In Coronet City on Corellia, a group called the “Acolyte of the Beyond” is active, calling themselves devotees of something “greater than the Empire.” One is captured by the police while (essentially) spray-painting “Vader Lives” and says that, in this group, you have to “earn your mask.” In the basement of that building, the acolytes find what certainly sounds like a red lightsaber. They say that they’ve been looking for it, and they have it. It would make no sense for it to be Vader’s, but it would parallel Maz Kanata’s find nicely.
No matter what they found, the Acolytes seem to have a lot in common with the Knights of Ren from The Force Awakens.
There’s a Hutt on Tatooine again
In one of the weirder interludes, we find out what happened to the devastated rancor trainer from Return of the Jedi. His name’s Malakili and his poor, dead rancor was Pateesa. After the events of the movie, he hung around Jabba’s palace for a long time, before seeking more animals to train. After he fails to find purpose in training the sarlacc, he ends up in Mos Pelgo (now Freetown) where a baby Hutt was taken from a criminal gang, planning to put it on Jabba’s throne. Malakili is asked to teach the Hutt. If it turns out to be Stinky, that would be an amazing Easter egg.
Maz Kanata goes on a search
Maz Kanata, the CG alien character played by Lupita Nyong’o in The Force Awakens, makes an appearance in Aftermath: Life Debt. Her castle/bar allows everyone in it, so long as they don’t fight. “ALL ARE WELCOME (NO FIGHTING)” is on the wall, and she even has a prison for brawlers. We also get a list of smaller, unwritten rules of Maz Kanata’s:
If you get up on stage, you have to perform; don’t drink what’s in the brown jug; don’t go downstairs; if your animal drops a pile anywhere, you’re out; all deals need the approval of Maz before they’re done, and if you try to go around her back she’ll take what’s yours and what’s his and sell all of it to the highest bidder; and for the love of all that is holy don’t mention Maz’s eyes unless you want to get into a very long conversation.
(“Don’t go downstairs” is a definitely a rule Rey broke in The Force Awakens.)
In Aftermath: Life Debt, an Imperial and a Rebel get into a fight, and they end up locked up. Maz releases them, but says to a droid that predates even her, “Peace has not returned to my heart. Something is off balance. Some stirring in the Force has made the water turbid. Hard to see. But I think it best we be prepared.” And Maz gets in her ship to travel around and “See just what I can see.”
Timeline-wise, this could be the journey that ends with Luke and Anakin’s old lightsaber moldering in her basement. It would parallel with the red one found by the Vader cult on Corellia.
Alderaan’s survivors are building a new home... out of the Death Star
In one of the weirdest interludes, we see a meeting of Alderaanians who weren’t on the planet when it was destroyed by the Death Star. They also take delivery of the first of many chunks of scrap of the Death Star as reparations. They want to build a space station of their own out of it.
And Finally...
Life Debt’s final major reveal concerns the aforementioned Gallius Rax. The epilogue of the novel offers a huge hint at where Star Wars is going with its story, not just in the new canon, but in the movies as well: and it involves a familiar locale and a familiar face.
Set 30 years before the events of the novel (so roughly just after the events of The Phantom Menace) the epilogue reveals that Rax was born on Jakku. In an attempt to escape the dusty world, Rax sneaks aboard a Republic ship that lands on the planet one day... and finds himself face to face with none other than Chancellor Palpatine, who’s visiting the planet for undisclosed (and presumably nefarious) reasons to excavate a piece of land.
After a short chat with Rax, Palpatine offers the boy a choice: die, or swear loyalty to him and become part of a grand plan:
I give you a new life. A better one. I give you a task that, if you manage, will lead you to greater things. Not some thing so mundane as a job, but a role. A purpose. I sense in you potential. A destiny. Most people have no destiny.
Rax agrees to join Palpatine, and then Palpatine gives the child a mission: return to Jakku, and guard the area that Palpatine’s droids were excavating with his life. Why? Palpatine espouses that the area, whatever it is, will have a major part to play in the future of the galaxy:
“You will go back to Jakku. The spot there in the dirt where my droids were operating is precious. Not just to me, but to the galaxy at large.” He sweeps his decrepit hand as if to the greater universe. “It is significant. It was significant a thousand years ago and it will be significant again. You will go back there and you will monitor my droids excavating the ground. Then I will send more droids and they will build something there below the ground. I want you to guard this space.”
Whatever it turns out to be, it appears to be a major hint for what’s to come. And it suddenly seems that both Rey and an explorer with ties to Force-based religion like Lor San Tekka finding a home on Jakku just became a lot less coincidental...
In the old expanded universe, the Ewoks sort of just went about their business on Endor after the second Death Star was destroyed. Disney’s new canon, however, imagines something a little different—and it’s ridiculous.
Chuck Wendig’s new novel Aftermath: Life Debt, out today, is packed with new nuggets of information about the state of the Star Wars galaxy after Return of the Jedi, many of which we broke down earlier today. But when we read this one, we just knew we had to share it so it can be... savored on its own.
At one point in Life Debt, a Rebel commando named Dade has his leg blown off in an a skirmish with Imperial ground forces. He gets the leg replaced with a prosthetic limb at a New Republic medical center, and during his recovery process, is offered a ‘therapy droid’ to combat PTSD. Earlier on in the novel, the little droid is described like this:
It’s got a clunky, squarish head, bur it rolls around slowly on a blue-and-gold ball-shaped body. Smaller than your standard astro-droid—this one only sits about knee-high. It warbles and blurps at him, focusing a pair of ocular lenses on him as it juggles its own head, which sits improbably upon its body like a box balanced as its head dips dangerously to the side.
Making it sound a lot like an early version of BB units like BB-8. Makes sense, as BB-8 is both very cute and probably very relaxing! QT-9 is a great name for such a droid.
But that’s beside the point. When Dade is first wary at how much a cute little droid will help him recover, a Doctor offers an... alternative therapy pet:
“Yeah, Doc, I see that, but why is there a droid here?”
“This is QT-9. He is your droid.”
Dade arches an eyebrow so high he’s pretty sure it hovers a few centimeters above his head. “I don’t recall owning a droid.”
“Think of it as renting one, except for free. QT-9 is a prototype therapy droid.”
“I don’t want a whatever-that-is.”
Arsad smirks. “I could put you in for a therapy Ewok, instead. Some of the native Endor creatures have agreed to travel offworld to help veterans like you recuperate. As a matter of recompense for saving their home.”
“Oh, yeah, I don’t want one of those. They smell horrible.”
That’s right: therapy Ewoks. Apparently, in their droves, Ewoks signed up to be therapy creatures for the New Republic as a thanks for the Rebel Alliance’s actions on Endor. THERAPY. EWOKS. Let that sink in. Imagine a tormented combat veteran having a PTSD episode while a group of therapy Ewoks sing Yub Nub in the background, attempting to calm them down. That’s apparently a thing that is now Star Wars canon.
It’s so dumb. And I love it. Thank you for this, Chuck Wendig.
That's a lot to digest - I wonder how much, if any of it, will have some significant bearing on what we see/have seen in the films? TBH I have teaser fatigue. The ending of Force Awakens, plus the whole don't-bother-to-explain-anything-about-the-protagonist angle, are major flaws IMO. At least since Lost premiered twelve years ago (although we can look farther back to Twin Peaks), pop culture has been more and more anchored in the premise of plot holes fetishized by the audience with obsessive analysis and theorycrafting while producers and writers slyly indicate they had it "all planned out from the start" - and yet to date just about none of these conclusions have even approached satisfying. How could they? Living up to the breadth of the imaginations of millions is to say the least a tall order. I would rather that Star Wars movies tell self-contained stories. As it stands, even one-offs like Rogue One are really just tent poles for license tie-ins. I can only hope that Rogue One will include all the parts necessary for a working story, unlike Force Awakens.
Manchu wrote: That's a lot to digest - I wonder how much, if any of it, will have some significant bearing on what we see/have seen in the films? TBH I have teaser fatigue. The ending of Force Awakens, plus the whole don't-bother-to-explain-anything-about-the-protagonist angle, are major flaws IMO. At least since Lost premiered twelve years ago (although we can look farther back to Twin Peaks), pop culture has been more and more anchored in the premise of plot holes fetishized by the audience with obsessive analysis and theorycrafting while producers and writers slyly indicate they had it "all planned out from the start" - and yet to date just about none of these conclusions have even approached satisfying. How could they? Living up to the breadth of the imaginations of millions is to say the least a tall order. I would rather that Star Wars movies tell self-contained stories. As it stands, even one-offs like Rogue One are really just tent poles for license tie-ins. I can only hope that Rogue One will include all the parts necessary for a working story, unlike Force Awakens.
Looks to lay to rest any concerns about this being a carefree, toned down movie, I am getting a definite genuine war film vibe from a lot of those shots.
It's a Stargate walrus bird. ...yeah, back to square one.
However, it should make the old novelverse fans happy to see the canon appropriating the EU's tradition of stupid, ugly spaceships. I eagerly await next year's designs based on binder clips and staple removers.
What I love about this is it's so familiarly Star Wars. We've got the AT-AT's, classic Stormtroopers, old sets like the Yavin IV hanger, and all that good stuff.
But then it's taking all of that and setting it against stuff that's so not classic Star Wars like special forces Stormtroopers and repulsor tanks. Those shots of them being hammered behind that sand wall are like right out of a world war 2 film. That shot of the Stormtroopers walking through the pale blue water on the beach, the war juxtaposed against a classic paradise setting.
Really though, I love that tropical island setting. It just works.
Paradigm wrote: Not a trailer as such, but lots of new footage:
Looks to lay to rest any concerns about this being a carefree, toned down movie, I am getting a definite genuine war film vibe from a lot of those shots.
The moment at 1:43 when it started cycling through portraits of different actors/extras on a drum beat was pretty cool.
(I'm not sure why that particular moment in the footage stands out so much. ).
This looks like its shaping up to be my favourite Star Wars film. As much as I loved the Original Trilogy, and tolerated the Prequel Trilogy (hey, as panned as it was, it did have its moments ), I've always preferred the more serious and darker Star Wars media like the Knights of the Old Republic games.
Didn’t get to the Star Wars Celebration in London this year? Disney is sharing the full hour with Mark Hamill from his panel spotlight. We’ve been talking about him a lot lately for his return to the Joker in Batman: The Killing Joke… but there is huge anticipation for the next Star Wars film which Rian Johnson confirmed will pick up right where The Force Awakens ended… with Luke Skywalker and Rei meeting.
There was also something of a large spoiler dropped by one the the Rogue One cast.
Nothing too earth shaking but knowing it might well affect your enjoyment of the film when you see it for the 1st time.
Fan site The Star Wars Post offers a rumor that Dr. Cornelius Evazan and Ponda Baba—a.k.a. those guys Luke bumps into in the Mos Eisley Cantina in A New Hope, only for Obi-Wan to casually slice Baba’s arm off—are in the movie, bolstered by a screengrab from the behind-the-scenes reel shown at Celebration Europe this weekend.
If the figures in the background are Evazan and Baba, then they are on Jedha during the events of the movie, presumably a very short time before their fateful encounter with Luke Skywalker in Mos Eisley. It’s likely a background easter egg rather than a major point in the film—but still, a weird callback to the original movie if true.
Fan site The Star Wars Post offers a rumor that Dr. Cornelius Evazan and Ponda Baba—a.k.a. those guys Luke bumps into in the Mos Eisley Cantina in A New Hope, only for Obi-Wan to casually slice Baba’s arm off—are in the movie, bolstered by a screengrab from the behind-the-scenes reel shown at Celebration Europe this weekend.
If the figures in the background are Evazan and Baba, then they are on Jedha during the events of the movie, presumably a very short time before their fateful encounter with Luke Skywalker in Mos Eisley. It’s likely a background easter egg rather than a major point in the film—but still, a weird callback to the original movie if true.
It would be ironically awesome if they were minor good guys...
Don't strike me as being especially loyal to the Empire and if they're as badass as they claim then might make handy guys for the kind of mission they're on ?
Hordini wrote: Maybe we'll find out why they were wanted big. If I recall, the doctor had the death penalty in like 12 systems.
For stealing our hearts...
His Star Wars CCG card was decent.
Dude... the memories. I fething loved that card game. I still have 5 binders full of cards sitting in my closet waiting for a day of glorious retro gaming. I was so sad when they lost the license in 2001. I'd probably still be playing now if they hadn't.
Much to the surprise of no one, it appears that the new trailer for Rogue One: A Star Wars Story, the very same one that was showcased behind-closed-doors at Star Wars Celebration Europe, has leaked online.
Remember, it’s a bootleg, so expect a fairly shaky experience. Nevertheless, it certainly chimes with last week’s trailer description, culminating in the reveal of Darth Vader. Well, we say reveal; James Earl Jones’ scenery-chewing big bad is glimpsed in a reflection of what we assume to be the shiny floor of the Death Star itself. But make no mistake, that iconic, rasping breathing apparatus can be heard loud and clear.
TBH the stuff in the behind the scenes trailer was/is better IMO.
.. that said.... when you do hear the breathing sound...
Everyone on my facebook feed is so hyped for all the good guys/gal and I'm the only one all pumped to see Ben Mendelsohn as ( I assume) the main bad guy. Dude killed it in season 1 of the Netflix Series Bloodline.
As always, it falls upon me to throw a bucket of cold water over this
I thought it was pretty meh.
A death star, a desert planet, a young rascal with an attitude problem....a wise old, jedi style master dispensing wisdom and advice...
Automatically Appended Next Post: To expand upon my point, the problem with this film is that you know what's going to happen before you've even watched it...
Sure, the details may vary, but the final destination is known in advance...
I'm not against rebellion stories set pre-New Hope, but IMO, it would have been far bolder, and more interesting if they had say, created a story detailing the creation of the rebellion from day one. The problems of recruitment, who to trust, early setbacks, trying to get ships and weapons etc etc
A death star, a desert planet, a young rascal with an attitude problem....a wise old, jedi style master dispensing wisdom and advice...
Automatically Appended Next Post: To expand upon my point, the problem with this film is that you know what's going to happen before you've even watched it...
Sure, the details may vary, but the final destination is known in advance...
I'm not against rebellion stories set pre-New Hope, but IMO, it would have been far bolder, and more interesting if they had say, created a story detailing the creation of the rebellion from day one. The problems of recruitment, who to trust, early setbacks, trying to get ships and weapons etc etc
It feels like an opportunity wasted...
A story about the creation of the Rebellion with Mon Mothma as the protagonist could have been pretty cool and cover more universe building. That would have been nice but it could also struggle with a meandering plot. The story of stealing plans for the death star has plenty of thrills, spies, commandos, fight scenes, etc. and fits into a nice conventional plot line. I can see why Rogue One was chosen. There's a ton of Star Wars stories that are better left told in other mediums than the movies. The movies are always going to be held hostage by their large budgets and the need to have big worldwide box office receipts.
I don't think pessimism about this will find much traction as long as the trailers make the movie look so good, quite apart from the high-level story ("steal the plans"). This trailer makes The Force Awakens, a perfectly fine film in its own right, look like a goofy cartoon for kids.
A death star, a desert planet, a young rascal with an attitude problem....a wise old, jedi style master dispensing wisdom and advice...
Automatically Appended Next Post: To expand upon my point, the problem with this film is that you know what's going to happen before you've even watched it...
Sure, the details may vary, but the final destination is known in advance...
I'm not against rebellion stories set pre-New Hope, but IMO, it would have been far bolder, and more interesting if they had say, created a story detailing the creation of the rebellion from day one. The problems of recruitment, who to trust, early setbacks, trying to get ships and weapons etc etc
It feels like an opportunity wasted...
A story about the creation of the Rebellion with Mon Mothma as the protagonist could have been pretty cool and cover more universe building. That would have been nice but it could also struggle with a meandering plot. The story of stealing plans for the death star has plenty of thrills, spies, commandos, fight scenes, etc. and fits into a nice conventional plot line. I can see why Rogue One was chosen. There's a ton of Star Wars stories that are better left told in other mediums than the movies. The movies are always going to be held hostage by their large budgets and the need to have big worldwide box office receipts.
I appreciate the fact that Star Wars films will never be 18+ ratings for obvious reasons, but we also know that the Star Wars brand means that this film will probably make a gazillion pounds/dollars when it comes out.
They can afford to take risks. As an American company, they only have to look at their own history for a ready made story - American revolution.
We all know about the divided loyalties, brother against brother, the agony of choosing sides, and this could have provided excellent stories for this film - people facing the difficult decision of joining the Rebel Alliance or the Empire...already, you have ready made plot themes and ideas...
Is Darth Vader going to be 2-D villian, or will he show a small spark of humanity left? A twinge of regret...
After all, Palpatine promised him that he could save Natalie Portman, but it never happened...Vader might be a bit mad at the Emperor for that...
And what about Obi-Wan? Is he really going to hide in a cave until a New Hope, or is he tempted to help out the rebellion? Not openly, but maybe a legion of the damned, covert style help...
So much potential...
I could go like this for a while, but it feels like an opportunity wasted...
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: I appreciate the fact that Star Wars films will never be 18+ ratings for obvious reasons, but we also know that the Star Wars brand means that this film will probably make a gazillion pounds/dollars when it comes out.
They can afford to take risks. As an American company, they only have to look at their own history for a ready made story - American revolution.
This movie already is a risk. It's the first theatrical release that isn't part of the original Star Wars story and it's full of a bunch of new characters that no one has ever heard of. Right now, we know of two characters from the main story that will appear, Mon Mothma and Darth Vader, and only one of which signals Star Wars to the average movie goer. Take the average person and ask them who Mon Mothma is and most people won't have a clue and we've been told that Vader isn't the main villain of the story, so it will likely focus on the other characters.
We all know about the divided loyalties, brother against brother, the agony of choosing sides, and this could have provided excellent stories for this film - people facing the difficult decision of joining the Rebel Alliance or the Empire...already, you have ready made plot themes and ideas...
Yeah, except that sounds too talky and boring as feth. Remember how we sat through movies dedicated to how the Empire arose from the Republic? It wasn't fun.
So much potential...
I could go like this for a while, but it feels like an opportunity wasted...
You do realize that this movie isn't out yet, right? It's pretty hard to say that this movie is essentially a failure and a wasted opportunity given that we've seen a couple of minutes of out-of-context footage.
Miguelsan wrote: I'm so excited and at the same so scared that it will end like last film.
M.
Technically it should end just before the first (chronologically made) film. With the Tantive IV getting 'sploded over Tattooine (yes, they destroyed it after capturing/interrogating the crew).
Anyone know anything about these new desert camo Storm troopers? The 'sand troopers'? I was under the impression that sand troopers were ordinary stormtroopers with extra gear, like we saw in episode IV. So who are these new guys?
Around 1:43-1:45 there are Y-Wings intermixed with X-Wings during the strafing runs in the canyon.
And while I hate this answer (mine not Kanluwen's) as I am not of fan of extra-source explanations so that one has to buy outside material to understand a thing apparently in one of the lead ups or adaptations to TFA it was said most of the y-wings were near the capitol when it was destroyed thus destroying most of the Y-Wings. The reason the X-Wings we see are painted differently is because they are given/loaned to the resistance by the government, which has/had the majority of the old fleet (A-Wing, Y-Wing, X-Wing, and B-Wing).
ed up which language Vader means father in (Dutch, not German. German it's "Vater"), as well as the pronunciation, I cannot actually give her credit for this.
