With the new psychic powers for Space Marines now disclosed, it seems like some of them could really allow for some completely new sorts of play styles and tactics. The one that stuck out the most to me is the Geokinesis power, particularly power 6.
(Copy and pasted from BoLS)
"Geokinesis
Primaris: WC2 Forces a dangerous terrain test without armor save, single unit. Basically it is a wound on a roll of 1? Invuls are allowed
1 – WC1 blessing, 18″ gives back D3 wounds + ITWND for the remaining of the turn
2 – WC1 malediction, 24″. Choose a point, it deals a single S5AP4 hit to each unit within 6″. This 6″ area is dangerous terrain. Crap.
3 – WC1 malediction, ALL ENEMIES WITHIN 18″. They are considered to be in dangerous terrain, and cannot run, boost or flat out. Nice.
4 – WC1 blessing, 24″. Single unit. Give MTC and Ignore cover to all weapons. Unit is also able to shoot on a unit WITHOUT LINE OF SIGHT, only the range matters. Wow, great!
5 – WC1 WC, 24″. Target building or ruin. Building gets a glancing or penetrating hit, ruins: units in it get D6 S6AP- hits;
6 – WC3 24″. Move a piece of terrain by 24″, including models in it. (force a dangerous terrain test)."
Just some combos I've been considering just brainstorming this morning:
1. Stick a bunch of your assault units in a ruin, then use power 6 to transport the ruin 24 inches right next to the enemy, effectively using the ruin as a transport vehicle allowing you to assault first turn. This could potentially be combined with power 3, if you stick the librarian in the ruin as well, allowing you to cause an 18 inch dangerous terrain bubble near the center of the enemies formation first turn. You have to eat the dangerous terrain test, but I think I might be willing to with the right units for a free 24 inch move.
2. Manipulating LOS blocking terrain. Have a bunch of warp spiders hiding near a building? Move the building then shoot them! Alternatively, stick a building right in front of a unit of heavy weapons using troops and prevent them from firing this turn.
3. Grabbing objectives. Stick an objective in a terrain feature. Grab the terrain feature along with the objective from the middle of the battlefield and set it next to the troops you want to move onto it.
4. Stealing away key cover or moving troops in cover next to assault troops. E.g. stealing away an enemies Aegis defense line and then firing on them. (Not sure if the rules for this one would work given they are fortifications).
My community FB page has been talking about this. Some are okay with it and some don't like it at all. The only thing I can say is I'd like to see what the wording is exactly for these powers. It looks like they are just a summed up version of them. Which can leave out key terms.
Thought about using the power to move all the terrain on the table off, to make it an open killing field
I, personally, cannot wait to have a Shadowsword on a flying saucer formerly known as a sky shield. Seriously considering the Aquila macro cannon as well...
The synergy with voidshield generators and promethium relay pipes will be *filthy*
I'll need to make a dedicated Geomancer librarian model with floaty effects
That said, Geomancy should be BRB, everyone should have a reason not to use telepathy. Hell even tyranids should have it.
Imho they should have waited and given like a psychic powers mini expansion for everybody. As it is, Marines just got a massive bump in power between these psychic powers and the new formations.
As funny as moving a piece of terrain would be (say a 1' by 1' ruins) it seems REALLY impractical for a lot of boards who have fixed terrain, terrain on bases, or that fit in slots. Also would this movement prevent you from charging after the move. Stack your entire army of assault ready units on a ruins, move the terrain 24" towards the enemy, and charge in. Heck it would probably be worth it to take a psyker and throw all the dice at it (perils be damned) to get a turn 1 charge.
Trueknight803 wrote: As far as power 6... It says terrain... Not building/fortification etc so idk about the whole moving a bastion or vsg etc
If you didnt already notice all fortifications have Terrain type in their listing and the rulebook explicitly labels them as terrain so yeah they can move..
Trueknight803 wrote: As far as power 6... It says terrain... Not building/fortification etc so idk about the whole moving a bastion or vsg etc
If you didnt already notice all fortifications have Terrain type in their listing and the rulebook explicitly labels them as terrain so yeah they can move..
Oh man my friend (who plays Death Korps) is gonna be p****d when i move his fortification (the one with the Macro Cannon), leaving a giant gap for me to Deep Strike a bunch of LoTD (2 squads with max flamers, 1 with max melta)
I wonder if you CAN MOVE AN ENTIRE TRENCH LINE? (Surely it counts a 1 piece of terrain)
commander dante wrote: *Spams the 'Move Terrain' Power to create a Miniature Fortress in a corner that blocks LoS*
*Dorn sheds single, yellow-bellied tear*
Lol, Reminds me of Text-To-Speech when Magnus turns into a daemon prince
"Rogal What are you doing!?!?"
"Fortifying this position"
"GOD DAMMIT ROGAL!"
(also Magic Pain Glove)
I think that the cheesiest strategy I would use would be to take a Raven Guard 1st Company Task Force of Thunderhammer Vanguard Veterans, all plopped in Ruins, with a Librarius Conclave all rolling on Geomancy.
2+ cover save in the first turn, move the building 24", reroll charge distance with a 3++ invulnerable and no penalties for disordered charges.
Considering 5 TH/SS Vanguard Veterans cost about 250 points, you can field 30 at 1850 points and have enough points left to throw the Conclave with enough rolls on the table to get that conclave. With the no penalty for disordered charges, and an effective 45" charge distance (12" move + 24" terrain move + 9" average rerolled charge distance), you can probably wipe the enemy army in a single turn (15 S8 AP2 attacks per squad, 6 of them for 90 attacks on as many units as you like).
If you play hammer and anvil, the enemy might have 12" extra room to hide in his backfield, but heck, you can afford tanking all the shots on a 2+ cover save/ 3++ until T2 where you're sure to charge.
commander dante wrote: *Spams the 'Move Terrain' Power to create a Miniature Fortress in a corner that blocks LoS*
*Dorn sheds single, yellow-bellied tear*
Lol, Reminds me of Text-To-Speech when Magnus turns into a daemon prince
"Rogal What are you doing!?!?"
"Fortifying this position"
"GOD DAMMIT ROGAL!"
(also Magic Pain Glove)
Or what if I start moving a Fortress of Redemption or an Aquilla strong point? You could make a Land Raider cry compared to your mobile AV15, massive SD blast throwing, Eagle fortress.
Tactical_Spam wrote: Or what if I start moving a Fortress of Redemption or an Aquilla strong point? You could make a Land Raider cry compared to your mobile AV15, massive SD blast throwing, Eagle fortress.
Tactical_Spam wrote: Or what if I start moving a Fortress of Redemption or an Aquilla strong point? You could make a Land Raider cry compared to your mobile AV15, massive SD blast throwing, Eagle fortress.
Pop the +1 Armour power on it as well....
Now I show you the true power of the Imperium... You's literally have to throw D weapons or Haywire to bring that thing down.
Tactical_Spam wrote: Or what if I start moving a Fortress of Redemption or an Aquilla strong point? You could make a Land Raider cry compared to your mobile AV15, massive SD blast throwing, Eagle fortress.
Pop the +1 Armour power on it as well....
Now I show you the true power of the Imperium... You's literally have to throw D weapons or Haywire to bring that thing down.
All we need now is a Commissar on the top shouting "DRIVE ME CLOSER! I WANT TO HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD!"
And stick a 10 man squad of BA hammernators with A Sanguinary Priest on it as well to charge anything that gets near
Tactical_Spam wrote: Or what if I start moving a Fortress of Redemption or an Aquilla strong point? You could make a Land Raider cry compared to your mobile AV15, massive SD blast throwing, Eagle fortress.
Pop the +1 Armour power on it as well....
Now I show you the true power of the Imperium... You's literally have to throw D weapons or Haywire to bring that thing down.
All we need now is a Commissar on the top shouting "DRIVE ME CLOSER! I WANT TO HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD!"
And stick a 10 man squad of BA hammernators with A Sanguinary Priest on it as well to charge anything that gets near
No, you move the Strongpoint with Librarian on top of the battlements
Behind him is a 10 man Hammernator squad with attached Librarian Conclave. Use electrodisplacement on the lone librarian to swap him for the Hammernators. Then use Magnetokinesis to move the Hammernator squad closer to their target. Pop veil of time and Hammer hand on the squad and erase everything.
Tactical_Spam wrote: Or what if I start moving a Fortress of Redemption or an Aquilla strong point? You could make a Land Raider cry compared to your mobile AV15, massive SD blast throwing, Eagle fortress.
Pop the +1 Armour power on it as well....
Now I show you the true power of the Imperium... You's literally have to throw D weapons or Haywire to bring that thing down.
All we need now is a Commissar on the top shouting "DRIVE ME CLOSER! I WANT TO HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD!"
And stick a 10 man squad of BA hammernators with A Sanguinary Priest on it as well to charge anything that gets near
No, you move the Strongpoint with Librarian on top of the battlements
Behind him is a 10 man Hammernator squad with attached Librarian Conclave. Use electrodisplacement on the lone librarian to swap him for the Hammernators. Then use Magnetokinesis to move the Hammernator squad closer to their target. Pop veil of time and Hammer hand on the squad and erase everything.
Nah i still think the Mobile fortress is better (and more simple to use)
Also Have Cypher man the Cannon (BS10 FTW)
Tactical_Spam wrote: Or what if I start moving a Fortress of Redemption or an Aquilla strong point? You could make a Land Raider cry compared to your mobile AV15, massive SD blast throwing, Eagle fortress.
Pop the +1 Armour power on it as well....
Now I show you the true power of the Imperium... You's literally have to throw D weapons or Haywire to bring that thing down.
All we need now is a Commissar on the top shouting "DRIVE ME CLOSER! I WANT TO HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD!"
And stick a 10 man squad of BA hammernators with A Sanguinary Priest on it as well to charge anything that gets near
No, you move the Strongpoint with Librarian on top of the battlements
Behind him is a 10 man Hammernator squad with attached Librarian Conclave. Use electrodisplacement on the lone librarian to swap him for the Hammernators. Then use Magnetokinesis to move the Hammernator squad closer to their target. Pop veil of time and Hammer hand on the squad and erase everything.
Nah i still think the Mobile fortress is better (and more simple to use)
Also Have Cypher man the Cannon (BS10 FTW)
I think you missed the potency of of terminators with a 48" movement...
Ratius wrote: Eeeek, some of those powers and possible combos are very scary :(
That's putting it rather lightly my friend LOL.
Assuming the original poster's info is accurate, I would say some of these powers and combo's are some of the worst concepts put into practice that I have seen in 40k. I shudder to think what other psychic powers Space Marines are getting with this release.
Number 6 alone would be a deal breaker for me. There is no way I would play a game where someone could move terrain around the board. The flying Fortress of Redemption while comedic is utterly ridiculous. But a more mundane case would be my opponent wanting to move a large, multi-level ruin with several squads of my models placed in it. I just don't think so buddy...
I am hoping that something got 'lost in translation' when the OP started this thread.
Ratius wrote: Eeeek, some of those powers and possible combos are very scary :(
That's putting it rather lightly my friend LOL.
Assuming the original poster's info is accurate, I would say some of these powers and combo's are some of the worst concepts put into practice that I have seen in 40k. I shudder to think what other psychic powers Space Marines are getting with this release.
Number 6 alone would be a deal breaker for me. There is no way I would play a game where someone could move terrain around the board. The flying Fortress of Redemption while comedic is utterly ridiculous. But a more mundane case would be my opponent wanting to move a large, multi-level ruin with several squads of my models placed in it. I just don't think so buddy...
I am hoping that something got 'lost in translation' when the OP started this thread.
I am quite sure you can't move fortifications, I was mostly making a joke.
Ratius wrote: Eeeek, some of those powers and possible combos are very scary :(
That's putting it rather lightly my friend LOL.
Assuming the original poster's info is accurate, I would say some of these powers and combo's are some of the worst concepts put into practice that I have seen in 40k. I shudder to think what other psychic powers Space Marines are getting with this release.
Number 6 alone would be a deal breaker for me. There is no way I would play a game where someone could move terrain around the board. The flying Fortress of Redemption while comedic is utterly ridiculous. But a more mundane case would be my opponent wanting to move a large, multi-level ruin with several squads of my models placed in it. I just don't think so buddy...
I am hoping that something got 'lost in translation' when the OP started this thread.
I am quite sure you can't move fortifications, I was mostly making a joke.
Oh I got the humour of it. Had a good laugh too. But as I said, I am hopeful that the information as presented is inaccurate to some degree. I would do a more proper search myself, but I am on satelite internet; which is horribly slow.
3. Grabbing objectives. Stick an objective in a terrain feature. Grab the terrain feature along with the objective from the middle of the battlefield and set it next to the troops you want to move onto it.
What are your thoughts?
not sure how you are moving objectives. dont think they are models. pretty sure they are just points on the map.
also, moving up void shields.. dirty.
edit: wait fortifications are a no go for moving?
well a ADL is still considered battlefield terrain IIRC which would be nice for a slow advance.
Terrain absolutely can be moved, which includes fortifications by the rules. For those who haven't seen it yet, the actual rules (scanned, not copied over) can be found here. https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/668
The 6th power of geokinesis is just as OP as we've feared.
At least now I might be able to get my Grey Knights into close combat before they get shot off the board. Space marines will be insane but some of us gakky marines will get a needed boost.
Power 6 has a paragraph about how models are moved. If all the models of the unit are in the terrain, they move with the terrain. If only some of the models are in the terrain, those models disembark. The paragraph then goes on to say that "models moved in this way" have to take a difficult terrain test, but they doesn't say whether "this way" refers to the second way, or either way.
There will also be discussions on whether or not those models that are moved "in the same manner as a model disembarking from a vehicle" will share any of the other restrictions of disembarking (e.g. being prevented from assaulting).
We'll also have strangeness with objective markers. There's a marker on the top of a building, and I move the building, will the marker remain suspended in mid air? If I move a large, multi-level building on top of an objective marker, will the marker rise up, and, if so, which level will rise up? What if a big piece of impassable terrain gets plonked on an objective - wouldn't that prevent anyone from getting within 3'' of it?
We therefore have a spell that: - Has vague rules. - Has a whole set of implications that GW haven't bothered to consider. - Will only function on certain tables, as some groups integrate the terrain with the surrounding area (e.g. terrain tiles). - Is horribly unbalanced.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: I think my enthusiasm to ever, ever, ever play 40k again just died.
Yeah, these look super cool. I am excited about this. This is a reasonable, and well thought out addition to the game, and I'm sure was play tested extensively.
Spoiler:
<rant>
By which I mean, GW is insane. Seriously, what the feth. Talk about the force unleashed...
How did all these psychic powers just suddenly appear out of no where? Is there a leak in the Warp around Terra? Did Chaos whisper in the ear of every Imperial psyker and give them new abilities? Maybe all the psykers had to do was believe and click their heels together 3 times, because the power was inside of them all along?
SM get a bunch of new game breaking psychic powers, and the Orks got a meh rehash of Waaagh! Ghazghkull. Thanks, GW. </rant>
In all seriousness:
If a unit is in/on a piece of terrain, and the terrain is moved via power # 6 above, do the models count as having "moved" for the purposes of shooting, etc.?
Swampmist wrote: The trick is to leave one guy out of the terrain, so that when he tries to move the squad they all disembark from it.
or target a piece of terrain with some enemy models in it and others out of it. Then they spend the rest of the game trying to get back into coherency.
Swampmist wrote: The trick is to leave one guy out of the terrain, so that when he tries to move the squad they all disembark from it.
or target a piece of terrain with some enemy models in it and others out of it. Then they spend the rest of the game trying to get back into coherency.
no, if only part of a unit is on the terrain, the models on the terrain dissembark like a vehicle, GW atleast had the forsight for THAT breakage
What's wrong, Timmy? You're tired of loosing to a smart opponent cause he's using terrain and some sort of 'tak-tix'? No worries! Forget about such things!
A LIBRARIAN!
Watch how joy returns to your games as you:
- Move your models!
- Move your opponent's models!
- Move terrain before the game!
- Move terrain as the game goes on!
- Move everything you want!
For a tiny price of £18 it's all yours! But wait! Get 3 LIBRARIANS and you'll ENORMOUSLY increase the chance of succsess! Yes, that's right!
So, don't waste your time, call us and get your own LIBRARIAN or three for better gaming experience!
The good powers are not guaranteed to be generated and can be denied. They can also get nulified with a CULLEXUS (you can also purchase CULLEXES versus other people's LIBRARIANS)
Also, the power specifically says it cannot be casted on in-built terrain; you can only cast it on a piece of terrain that you can actually pick up and move.
carldooley wrote: or target a piece of terrain with some enemy models in it and others out of it. Then they spend the rest of the game trying to get back into coherency.
Thankfully not. GW actually thought of that - units that are only partially in the terrain are forced to disembark.
...
I didn't say GW did a good job of thinking about it.
Cleatus wrote: If a unit is in/on a piece of terrain, and the terrain is moved via power # 6 above, do the models count as having "moved" for the purposes of shooting, etc.?
It really depends. Heavy weapons / ordnance weapons only care whether the model "moved in the preceding Movement phase". This means that moving in the psychic phase doesn't count. The ork Gitfinda is in the same boat. However, salvo weapons ask if the model has moved or not... but doesn't specify when. RAW, you could say that if a model moves turn 1, it will never be able to fire the full number of shots for the rest of the battle. There could also be some fun talk about whether movement (that 6'' action you do in the movement phase) is the same thing as movement (the dictionary definition).
Have fun forging the narrative!
koooaei wrote: What's wrong, Timmy? You're tired of loosing to a smart opponent cause he's using terrain and some sort of 'tak-tix'? No worries! Forget about such things!
A LIBRARIAN!
Watch how joy returns to your games as you:
- Move your models!
- Move your opponent's models!
- Move terrain before the game!
- Move terrain as the game goes on!
- Move everything you want!
For a tiny price of £18 it's all yours! But wait! Get 3 LIBRARIANS and you'll ENORMOUSLY increase the chance of succsess! Yes, that's right!
So, don't waste your time, call us and get your own LIBRARIAN or three for better gaming experience!
The power is not guaranteed to be generated and can be denied. LIBRARIAN doesn't guarantee a free win, however, it greatly increases your chances of thoughtless victories
Exalted.
That power is like a giant middle finger to armies that make use of BLOS terrain.
killerdou wrote: Dreadsock your opponent untill he is no longer physically able to pick up the piece of terrain?
Could one argue that built-in terrain is 'modeling for advantage'? As it is not how GW sells their products?
I think the built in terrain thing is to stop people shuffling around realm of battle boards. Just scatter terrain.
You can physically pick up a realm of battle board and place it in a different location though...
While true, I think they should be considered part of the table, rather then terrain features. There is also the clause that you need to place it more then 1” away from other models/terrain after moving. I guess you could take one of the end ones and move it back.
killerdou wrote: Dreadsock your opponent untill he is no longer physically able to pick up the piece of terrain?
Could one argue that built-in terrain is 'modeling for advantage'? As it is not how GW sells their products?
I think the built in terrain thing is to stop people shuffling around realm of battle boards. Just scatter terrain.
You can physically pick up a realm of battle board and place it in a different location though...
While true, I think they should be considered part of the table, rather then terrain features. There is also the clause that you need to place it more then 1” away from other models/terrain after moving. I guess you could take one of the end ones and move it back.
And then get hit with the dreadsock.
"The surface of the realm of battle gameboard is considered open ground" p108
killerdou wrote: Dreadsock your opponent untill he is no longer physically able to pick up the piece of terrain?
Could one argue that built-in terrain is 'modeling for advantage'? As it is not how GW sells their products?
I think the built in terrain thing is to stop people shuffling around realm of battle boards. Just scatter terrain.
You can physically pick up a realm of battle board and place it in a different location though...
While true, I think they should be considered part of the table, rather then terrain features. There is also the clause that you need to place it more then 1” away from other models/terrain after moving. I guess you could take one of the end ones and move it back.
And then get hit with the dreadsock.
"The surface of the realm of battle gameboard is considered open ground" p108
Meh just get buff and flip the whole table upside down.
it would not be very impossible for a conclave to have the main guy cast iron arm, warpspeed, fists of lightning, and might of heroes for:
A +3+2+1
S +3+2+1
I +3+2
T +3+2
Or how about sanctuary, veil of time and stormshields on everyone?
1. Get Warp Charge dice...
2. Cast power #6, "Split You Up The Middle!" or whatever the feth it'll be called - perils be damned...
3. Pick up the whole damn 2'x2' RoBG section, rotate it 180 degrees and enjoy all the rear armor shots.
1. Get Warp Charge dice...
2. Cast power #6, "Split You Up The Middle!" or whatever the feth it'll be called - perils be damned...
3. Pick up the whole damn 2'x2' RoBG section, rotate it 180 degrees and enjoy all the rear armor shots.
Honestly the concept of doing that is really cool.
Additionally you can just set up an easy charge for a near by unit almost on t1 i think.
I don't think GW considered the implications of this power... armies like the Thunder dome that won Adepticon do not need to charge turn 1... this is bad news bears...
oh god no, not the castellum. Though, to be fair, I don't think you can actually PLACE the Castellum after you pick it up on most tables... Honestly, that's the main limitation of this power. On a table with a good amount of existing terrain, it will be hard to actually PLACE the moved terrain\fortification, as you have to keep an inch away from both existing terrain and enemy models...
Skyshield landing pad. Having my whole army able to move 24inches per turn with a permanent 4++.Throw in a libcon with Tiggy and now you have centurion star reborn, better than ever.
WHAT I wouldn't give.....for Tyranids to be able to slingshot into combat as described by the OP. Literally nothing. Only hope is that there will be some awesome assault goodness when the new dex drops (whenever that is). The amount of first turn assault potential in the game is nuts and if tyranids get left off the board entirely in that regard.....well.....I will be very sad
I feel like GW has been pranking us and feel the need to go to increasingly obvious lengths to make an unbalanced game because somehow we didn't get it when they handed out D weapons to an entire army...
So lets think about some of the fun we can have with this:
1: Void shield generators that move with your army.
2: Entire army on a Skyshield for mobile 4++.
3: Move terrain (Aegis?) in front of your army to force enemies to assault through cover.
4: Army embarked on an Aquila Strongpoint Assault Transport. Any hill or crater is now a 24" move assault transport, but you may as well do it in AV15 D-Blast toting style.
5: Make your enemies run towards you as if they're on a treadmill. Cycle their assault units towards the backfield every turn.
6: Just move the terrain 6" in front of him every turn. Make his infantry spend the entire game embarking & disembarking from that terrain piece to chase the objective.
7: Is an enemy unit safe behind some BLOS terrain? Not for long!
8: Is your unit looking down the barrel of some Riptides? Not for long - move that BLOS piece in.
EDIT: 9: Pull your opponent's models in to first turn charge range with you.
Couple this with the other two movement blessings in Fulmination...
Here's my thoughts for the moment, strictly in terms of my Guard and Raptors/Raven Guard force.
Allied Detachment (HQ)
Deathwatch Librarian
(Troops)
Deathwatch Kill-Team
Librarian, according to the card we've seen photos of, has access to the new Lores.
Give him Geokinesis and hope for #4(Ignores LOS and Cover power) and #6(Shifting Worldscape).
?????
Profit!
This has quite possibly the dumbest thing GW has ever put out. And now people are trying to break the dumbest thing GW has ever put out. Oh, what times do we live in!
TheCustomLime wrote: This has quite possibly the dumbest thing GW has ever put out. And now people are trying to break the dumbest thing GW has ever put out. Oh, what times do we live in!
TheCustomLime wrote: This has quite possibly the dumbest thing GW has ever put out. And now people are trying to break the dumbest thing GW has ever put out. Oh, what times do we live in!
Why do you hate fun?
Seriously, I'm glad that the broken thing this time around is at least funny enough to be fun in a casual setting .
TheCustomLime wrote: This has quite possibly the dumbest thing GW has ever put out. And now people are trying to break the dumbest thing GW has ever put out. Oh, what times do we live in!
Why do you hate fun?
I don't hate fun! I just think it's hilarious (And very, very stupid) that GW has given a new meaning to the term "Flying Fortress".
Kanluwen wrote: Here's my thoughts for the moment, strictly in terms of my Guard and Raptors/Raven Guard force.
Allied Detachment (HQ)
Deathwatch Librarian
(Troops)
Deathwatch Kill-Team
Librarian, according to the card we've seen photos of, has access to the new Lores.
Give him Geokinesis and hope for #4(Ignores LOS and Cover power) and #6(Shifting Worldscape).
?????
Profit!
The Librarian currently only has access to the Biomancy power, as that card says 'Deathwatch' says he has access to everything.
I'm more betting they are leaving the door open to add an actual Deathwatch faction later, rather than giving it to the Blood Raven.
Kanluwen wrote: Here's my thoughts for the moment, strictly in terms of my Guard and Raptors/Raven Guard force.
Allied Detachment (HQ)
Deathwatch Librarian
(Troops)
Deathwatch Kill-Team
Librarian, according to the card we've seen photos of, has access to the new Lores.
Give him Geokinesis and hope for #4(Ignores LOS and Cover power) and #6(Shifting Worldscape).
?????
Profit!
The Librarian currently only has access to the Biomancy power, as that card says 'Deathwatch' says he has access to everything.
I'm more betting they are leaving the door open to add an actual Deathwatch faction later, rather than giving it to the Blood Raven.
They're likely going to have a caveat somewhere that "Models that can usually only choose X, Y, or Z can instead choose to take from these new Psyker Disciplines."
I'm pretty positive at this point we're getting a Deathwatch faction, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut they wouldn't be showcasing it to us just yet. As of right now, the stuff from Deathwatch: Overkill is the Deathwatch faction.
They also used to have the Space Marine faction listed as having Divination on the cheat sheet card back in the days when it didn't have access to it, so, unless it's written somewhere that he has access somewhere, he doesn't.
I mean, I'm not going to object if someone takes it if they actually play with him, just means he's some random Librarian and not in a Conclave. I'm more arguing from a RAW standpoint.
The best thing about this is that it will give you the ability to steal fortifications from the enemy. This should lead to a reduction in the number of void shield generators and will also reduce the need for ignores cover relics/powers. Lastly, it will make warp spiders easier to deal with.
OH, you brought the nice tidewall formation from the tau codex, how sweet. just gonna pop that a deployment range difference closer, and turn 1 charge from our own deployment zone.. yes. our hellhounds on terrain to get some nice flame templates going..
killerdou wrote: Dreadsock your opponent untill he is no longer physically able to pick up the piece of terrain?
Could one argue that built-in terrain is 'modeling for advantage'? As it is not how GW sells their products?
I think the built in terrain thing is to stop people shuffling around realm of battle boards. Just scatter terrain.
You can physically pick up a realm of battle board and place it in a different location though...
While true, I think they should be considered part of the table, rather then terrain features. There is also the clause that you need to place it more then 1” away from other models/terrain after moving. I guess you could take one of the end ones and move it back.
And then get hit with the dreadsock.
"The surface of the realm of battle gameboard is considered open ground" p108
Meh just get buff and flip the whole table upside down.
Now no one can play best warp power ever.
Depending on how tall the tables is, this is still within the realm of the power. Does it say anything about terrain having to stay on the table? Imagine if you could just shunt some ruins off the battlefield and immediately destroy whatever was standing on it.
Also it specifically says terrain so I don't think anything that can be shot at can be moved. So no pushing Void Shield generators into your own lines. Can yank a skyshield across the board no problem though.
Buildings are terrain according to the rulebook, though it only mentions terrain features after it referred to the buildings section and continues on difficult terrain, so who knows (the psychic power specifically mentions terrain features, not terrain)
niv-mizzet wrote: I can't wait for a TO/judge to walk by part way through a game and see all the pre-set terrain jumbled up in front of one deployment zone.
How would tournaments with replaced terrain work? Would the terrain be replaced in its original position or left in the new positions for the concurrent games?
carldooley wrote: How would tournaments with replaced terrain work? Would the terrain be replaced in its original position or left in the new positions for the concurrent games?
I think its time for TOs to invest in a hot glue gun and forcibly stick terrain down
carldooley wrote: How would tournaments with replaced terrain work? Would the terrain be replaced in its original position or left in the new positions for the concurrent games?
I think its time for TOs to invest in a hot glue gun and forcibly stick terrain down
Yeah, i have the feeling the power will be restricted\banned at most tourniies, especially narrative stuff, as it can really mess up planning. I'm trying to hear back from a tourney i'm going to in May about it before making a decision on what to plan for, personally, but I think I'll be running Fulmination+Biomancy at this point, if only because a super-buff-static-shock marine appeals to me GREATLY
niv-mizzet wrote: I can't wait for a TO/judge to walk by part way through a game and see all the pre-set terrain jumbled up in front of one deployment zone.
as I said before, Dorn would be proud
Dorn as well as Trump.
"We will build a wall, and the Tau will pay for it"
niv-mizzet wrote: I can't wait for a TO/judge to walk by part way through a game and see all the pre-set terrain jumbled up in front of one deployment zone.
as I said before, Dorn would be proud
Dorn as well as Trump.
"We will build a wall, and the Tau will pay for it"
niv-mizzet wrote: I can't wait for a TO/judge to walk by part way through a game and see all the pre-set terrain jumbled up in front of one deployment zone.
as I said before, Dorn would be proud
Dorn as well as Trump.
"We will build a wall, and the Tau will pay for it"
carldooley wrote: How would tournaments with replaced terrain work? Would the terrain be replaced in its original position or left in the new positions for the concurrent games?
They would probably just ask players to replace terrain to how it was after their game? Seems simple enough.
Also one additional advantage I forgot to the power. In the competitive scene it's a possible counter to VSG, which is getting to be stupidly popular. (One of my friends in California's ITC events said its literally in half the lists. ಠ_ಠ)
1. It says the terrain has to be able to be placed an 1" away from other things, so GW is encouraging you to put down a ton of terrain. Clog the board with terrain and you limit the effectiveness of the power (somewhat).
2. GW is in bed with hobby lobby to sell glue guns and staple guns. As I feel inclined to bring both to any tournament play. The rules say you have to be able to pick it up and move it. They didn't say I couldn't use my staplegun of doom to counter your power.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, how does this power interact with a storm surge with deployed anchors? Do the anchors consider the terrain as bolted down?
First thing I am doing is Librarius conclave allied with my Knights. Put three knights on a piece of terrain, shunt them across the table on the terrain taxi, assault and stop till your enemy is mush...did I miss anything?
You could even shunt a pair of storm surges across the table as the power does not focus on the models making the ally table meaningless.
This is actually a way for GW to finally get rid of ALL fine cast. The rule should read "once power is cast move all enemy models, table, and terrain into the direct sunlight"...boom all fin cast turns to puddles.
In all seriousness...what the heck was GW thinking when they came up with this?!? My rage is so overcome by my silliness and disbelief hehe.
I guess I have to wait until 2032 to see my DE get their 30th anniversary awesome build heheh.
Kholzerino wrote: Does an escape hatch move with the Terrain associated with it?
Per the RAW, the first player to hop in the building places an "escape hatch marker" which is then forever an access point for that building without the repel rule. So... seeing as the escape hatch is a "marker" and not an actual part of the building/terrain it would not be moved with the building. At least that is how I would understand it based on the horribly vague wording of the psychic power.
Step 1: Buy any building fortification that can take an escape hatch.
Step 2: Place escape hatch marker up to 12 inches away from the building, within 3 inches of objective.
Step 3: Use Shifting Worldscape to teleport the fortication/building away 24 inches
Step 4: Effectively have your choice of 1 of 2 points to control at any time just by disembarking and re-embarking using the escape hatch that is now located up to 36 inches away from the building.
Step 5: Laugh and Profit as you make a mockery of maelstrom missions.
What happens if 2 units are locked in combat on a piece of terrain but 1 of them has at least 1 model not on the terrain? I'm assuming the combat ends?
Fishboy wrote: Not a shame at all. If the entire unit is not on terrain then they move as if disembarking a vehicle
So then they can't assault in their subsequent assault phase?
I would guess. Despite technically being open topped, most terrain doesn't have the assault vehicle rule.
No, its practically open topped, its technically nothing. Since open-topped is an additional rule for vehicles It would work like a regular vehicle, so its technically "closed-top".
Have had a look at the objective rules and I think they imply that moving a terrain piece with an objective marker on would drop it to the ground below it instead of taking it flying around the board...
So objectives are defined as "a point on the battlefield... These points are designated by specifically modelled markers". Imo that implies that it's a point on the field we're interested in controlling, not the marker itself? It goes on to say "should a building with an objective on it be removed, place the objective marker on the ground below the point it occupied." Now building does not equate to all terrain and removed is not necessarily equal to moved, but the fact this initially refers to an "objective" i think supports the first statement, as well as setting precedent that the objective should fall to the ground below the terrain.
Anyway maybe that eliminates one of the major problems with this power!
Had a buddy say he was going to wait for a MC or GC to only be partly on the terrain...then move it. The MCGC can't embark on a vehicle so can't disembark so the GCMC is dead heheh. When GW makes rules like this it's no wonder why people try to stretch interpretations heheh.
Fishboy wrote: Had a buddy say he was going to wait for a MC or GC to only be partly on the terrain...then move it. The MCGC can't embark on a vehicle so can't disembark so the GCMC is dead heheh. When GW makes rules like this it's no wonder why people try to stretch interpretations heheh.
can you explain why they would be dead? I get that MC and GC can't embark on vehicles so they can't disembark, but why would they be dead?
A mc would disembark. Just because they can't "normally" embark to a vehicle doesn't mean that they die when they are forced to disembark from the building. Also it would have to be a unit of at least 2 mc one on and one off because they don't have to be fully on just at least touching the terrain.
Desubot wrote: Isnt it if a model wouldnt be able to disembark than its counted as a casualty?
That is only the case with Wrecked and Explodes! Results on the vehicle damage table. Since neither of those things are happening, nothing would happen besides the Dangerous Terrain test.
Also, the psychic reads if a unit is partially on a terrain they disembark, yadda yadda yadda. A single model partially off would move with the terrain I believe. As long as Wobbly Model Syndrome applies.
Saythings wrote: Also, the psychic reads if a unit is partially on a terrain they disembark, yadda yadda yadda. A single model partially off would move with the terrain I believe. As long as Wobbly Model Syndrome applies.
I disagree. A single model unit that is not fully on the terrain piece is the same as a unit that is only partially on terrain. Single model units must have the base completely on the terrain to count as "fully" on the terrain. This makes it much harder to jump big units.
What happens if the unit partially on the terrain is locked in combat? They can't disembark without moving within 1" of an enemy model. Are they destroyed?
Saythings wrote: Also, the psychic reads if a unit is partially on a terrain they disembark, yadda yadda yadda. A single model partially off would move with the terrain I believe. As long as Wobbly Model Syndrome applies.
I disagree. A single model unit that is not fully on the terrain piece is the same as a unit that is only partially on terrain. Single model units must have the base completely on the terrain to count as "fully" on the terrain. This makes it much harder to jump big units.
However a monstrous creature with a toe in terrain gets to be counted as "in it" for the purposes of cover.
Overall I'm not convinced if he should be moved with or out. Rule unclear (surprise surprise.)
Saythings wrote: Also, the psychic reads if a unit is partially on a terrain they disembark, yadda yadda yadda. A single model partially off would move with the terrain I believe. As long as Wobbly Model Syndrome applies.
I disagree. A single model unit that is not fully on the terrain piece is the same as a unit that is only partially on terrain. Single model units must have the base completely on the terrain to count as "fully" on the terrain. This makes it much harder to jump big units.
However a monstrous creature with a toe in terrain gets to be counted as "in it" for the purposes of cover.
Overall I'm not convinced if he should be moved with or out. Rule unclear (surprise surprise.)
Toe in cover for area terrain doesn't require a unit to be fully within. The rule simply says "in" (specifically the copse data sheet that is generally used to define area woods). Partially in counts for this purpose. The geokinesis power specifically says "fully in."
Saythings wrote: A single toe is fully in for a single model though. In regards to one model being in or out. They get the 4+ save for being in the ruins.
Technically, if you think about it, since they are unable to disembark from the terrain because they have a toe in it, they will be stuck where they are as the terrain does not have a movement mode.
I'd agree with that. The MC/GMC would be in the same exact spot. It would also need to be outside of 1" of enemy when the terrain reaches its final location. Sort of like "stacking" two terrain pieces that overlapped. At least, that's how I'd play it.
1. Does it pick up and levitate over models in between where it is and where it wants to go? Or does it act like a non tank shocking vehicle?
2. I don't have the printed copy yet, but basically, units on the terrain piece move with it. Units partially on it, disembark the terrain. But, just to confirm, you cannot place terrain on top of existing models, correct?
3. So, assuming the above, you can use models to screen movement of terrain?
If that is the case, horde armies just became a little more useful. Ally in some orks for cheap grots and place them where you don't want terrain to go. Also, would servo skulls serve as a speed bump to the all terrain vehicle (get it? see what I did there? shut up).
I am calling it the terrain taxi hehe. I would think skulls would go away as an enemy is now within 6". I think if we state the terrain can not move through other terrain or other models this power becomes very limited and reigned in imo. It would take several turns to shift terrain 24" across the board and you can counter with bubble wrap. It still is very effective at changing vehicle facings though. The teleport power has been overwhelming in several battle reports and I can't think of a fix for that one.
Desubot wrote: Isnt it if a model wouldnt be able to disembark than its counted as a casualty?
That is only the case with Wrecked and Explodes! Results on the vehicle damage table. Since neither of those things are happening, nothing would happen besides the Dangerous Terrain test.
Im fairly sure that is not the case as otherwise drop pod traps wouldnt be a thing.
Its IF you disembark and there is not enough room to disembark then any model that cannot physically be placed is dead.
Fishboy wrote: I would think skulls would go away as an enemy is now within 6".
IIRC, the power states terrain needs to stay 1" away from other terrain (so no stacking ruins on ruins). I thought it also said 1" away from enemy models.
Sevo skulls go away when an enemy unit is within 6" of it (no codex right now).
So, the big question is what happens first?
Our high speed glacier of doom starts creeping across the board and hits a servo skull. Do we then have to stop moving it as it is withing an inch of an enemy model? Once stopped, check to see if an enemy model is within 6" and then pop the skull? Or does skull popping happen while movement is occurring?
I agree the 6th power (Geo) has potential to be nuts.
But as a WC3 power and the limitation of both needing to fit the entire squad in (yes ignoring the contention of whether or not a 'toe' counts as 'fully in' or not) and moving within 1" of models/terrain.... I think this power will often have much less of an effect than the gross potential on an empty board with perfect positioning of models.. with the the perfect piece of terrain.
Definitely going to look into this power with my Crimson Fists Librarius Conclave. Three ML2 Librarians, one of which has the Bones of Osrak, means I m generating a minimum of 8 Warp Charges, harnessing on 2+ Rerollable. Pretty much a guarantee of casting any power.
Bones of Osrak lets you reroll all failed psychic tests.
of course it does.. sigh..
This is an old relic. Came out with the old Sentinels of Terra supplement. Its actually not that good because you can't reroll individual dice like the Eldar runes. So if you throw 3 dice at Shifting Worldscape and roll a "1" you have to reroll the two successes along with the failure.
Bones of Osrak lets you reroll all failed psychic tests.
of course it does.. sigh..
This is an old relic. Came out with the old Sentinels of Terra supplement. Its actually not that good because you can't reroll individual dice like the Eldar runes. So if you throw 3 dice at Shifting Worldscape and roll a "1" you have to reroll the two successes along with the failure.
This is true. But on WC3 powers I tend to devote 7 dice. It does increase the probability of perils.
Bones of Osrak go on my Librarian that goes with Pedro Kantor. Veil of Time, Invisibility, or Endurance are all powers I will be aiming for depending on how much AP2 I am against.
r imperial knights...
"We will build a wall, and the Tau will pay for it"
