(CNN)The man arrested for trying to disarm a police officer inside a Donald Trump rally in Las Vegas Saturday told authorities he intended to use the gun "to kill Trump," according to a new criminal complaint.
Police arrested the 19-year-old after he attempted to pull a police officer's gun from its holster inside a Las Vegas theater where Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee, was holding a campaign rally.
Police said Michael Sandford struck up a conversation with a Las Vegas Metropolitan Police officer under the pretense that he was seeking to get an autograph. During the conversation, police said Sandford tried to pull the officer's service weapon from its holster. Other officers also assigned to provide security at the event were quickly able to detain Sandford and authorities said there was no further disruption to the event.
Sanford told police that he drove to Las Vegas from California "to kill Trump," according to the complaint, after hearing a few days earlier in the news that he was expected there. On June 17, he practiced shooting a gun for the first time at a gun range in Las Vegas.
"Sanford further stated that if he were on the street tomorrow, he would try this again," reads the complaint, obtained by CNN. "Sandford claimed he had been planning to kill Trump for about a year but decided to act on this occasion because he finally felt confident about trying it."
This story mentions his nationality.
Sandford had a United Kingdom driver's license with him at the time, according to the criminal complaint signed by Secret Service Special Agent Joseph Hall.
Secret Service agents said that Sandford told them he had been in the U.S. for about a year and a half, lived in Hoboken, N.J., and drove to the San Bernardino, Calif., area before coming to Las Vegas on June 16.
That's ridiculous. Of course if he had a time traveling device he would have gone back before Trump had Secret Security detail. Some people just don't think.
I'm wondering what his immigration stance was? just saying I cannot imagine for the life of me why he would do something like that, yeah can see any home grown idiot going after a president and/or candidate, but someone from overseas with a country we are friendly with? something about this seems odd to say the least.
Steve steveson wrote: I'm assuming he is now goain't to ban all British people from getting visas? Any word on his religion so Trump can ban them too. Can't be too careful.
Damn those Presbyterians! (You guys have those, right?)
Kilkrazy wrote: If he had a green card he could have just done that.
so either he was here illegally? or he didn't have the money for the gun, issue is why? why did he want to? if he was from the UK it shouldn't matter who is running for president, but if he was here illegally, then there is the potential he was worried he might get deported if Trump won.
Kilkrazy wrote: If he had a green card he could have just done that.
so either he was here illegally? or he didn't have the money for the gun, issue is why? why did he want to? if he was from the UK it shouldn't matter who is running for president, but if he was here illegally, then there is the potential he was worried he might get deported if Trump won.
Given he drove from california, probably a student who was worried about being deported. And if he was a foreign exchange student in California, odds are he didnt have the money or time to get one (or the knowledge considering he'd never fired one), he probably just assumed it'd be easy enough to grab one at the convention. Given how firey Trump gets, and how he's portrayed as Hitler 2.0 in most left leaning media, I can see how the kid may be worried about being deported, or even thinking he would be seen as a hero.
Now, thinking he could drive to vegas, shoot a gun once, then expect to disarm a cop and successfully shoot Trump? Thats pretty stupid. Points either to a kid who wasnt very bright, or someone who isnt quite right in the head.
Granted I wouldve shed no tears had trump been shot, he is the worst human being possible to run as president (and thats saying something considering Hillary is his opposition) but doing that wouldve only turned him into a martyr for the people following him. If anything it would just make the bitter division between parties and races/religions/immigrants even worse than it already is.
Asterios wrote: if he was from the UK it shouldn't matter who is running for president, but if he was here illegally, then there is the potential he was worried he might get deported if Trump won.
You'd be surprised. Most of us Brits are pretty terrified of a potential Trump presidency; the man is a racist, dangerous, incompetent and ridiculous individual, and given how closely Britain and the US operate together on the international stage, there would definitely be knock-on effects for us should be somehow be elected.
Trump running for president was a bit of a joke over here, until it suddenly stopped being funny when we realised he might actually win it... We do have similarly extreme (by British standards) right-wing politicians, but even though some (such as Nigel Farage and UKIP) get extensive media coverage, none of them are anywhere near any meaningful power in parliament. So the prospect of someone who changes his stance on a whim, preaches hate and racial division and is in no way equipped to run a country might be president of a) one of the most powerful nations on the planet and b) our closest international ally is quite alarming.
Asterios wrote: if he was from the UK it shouldn't matter who is running for president, but if he was here illegally, then there is the potential he was worried he might get deported if Trump won.
You'd be surprised. Most of us Brits are pretty terrified of a potential Trump presidency; the man is a racist, dangerous, incompetent and ridiculous individual, and given how closely Britain and the US operate together on the international stage, there would definitely be knock-on effects for us should be somehow be elected.
And it is not just Brits. Most of Europe is trembling at the thought of Trump becoming president
obsidianaura wrote: I'd like to say its nice to see a young person taking an interest in foreign politics, but in this case he may have gone a little too far.
To say he's gone too far is an understatement.
The last President to be targeted by Great Britain was James Madison
According to the court papers, Mr Sandford said he had never fired a gun before but went to a range in Las Vegas on 17 June to learn how to shoot.
At Saturday's rally at the Treasure Island Casino, he allegedly tried to grab the officer's weapon because it was in an unlocked position and therefore, he said, the easiest way to get a gun to shoot Mr Trump.
Court documents say Mr Sandford acknowledged he knew he would only be able to fire one or two rounds, and expected to be killed during an attempt on Mr Trump's life.
He told police if he had not tried to kill Mr Trump at this rally he would have tried again at a rally in Phoenix, for which he had already booked tickets, the papers say.
He told investigators he had been in the US for one and a half years and drove to Las Vegas from California specifically to kill Mr Trump, the court papers say.
Court research showed he was unemployed, living out of his car and in the US illegally, the Associated Press news agency reports.
A federal public defender said he had autism and had attempted suicide, the agency adds.
He said he had been planning to try to shoot Mr Trump for about a year but had decided to act now because he finally felt confident enough to do so, court papers say
1 year...
.. and this is the best idea he could come up with ?!
I was always wondering what the trade deals will be like with trump
Ban brits/muslims
Taking all troops from all countries japan will need to build bigger army
Making friends with north korea
And even putin says he is out to town.
Kilkrazy wrote: If he had a green card he could have just done that.
so either he was here illegally? or he didn't have the money for the gun, issue is why? why did he want to? if he was from the UK it shouldn't matter who is running for president, but if he was here illegally, then there is the potential he was worried he might get deported if Trump won.
Given he drove from california, probably a student who was worried about being deported. And if he was a foreign exchange student in California, odds are he didnt have the money or time to get one (or the knowledge considering he'd never fired one), he probably just assumed it'd be easy enough to grab one at the convention. Given how firey Trump gets, and how he's portrayed as Hitler 2.0 in most left leaning media, I can see how the kid may be worried about being deported, or even thinking he would be seen as a hero.
Now, thinking he could drive to vegas, shoot a gun once, then expect to disarm a cop and successfully shoot Trump? Thats pretty stupid. Points either to a kid who wasnt very bright, or someone who isnt quite right in the head.
Granted I wouldve shed no tears had trump been shot, he is the worst human being possible to run as president (and thats saying something considering Hillary is his opposition) but doing that wouldve only turned him into a martyr for the people following him. If anything it would just make the bitter division between parties and races/religions/immigrants even worse than it already is.
You make an interesting point. These recent events have all happened with people who have some form of mental disability.
The killing of Jo Cox, the latest US massacre, the attempt on Trump.
Are these people more vulnerable to how adversarial the media is these days?
I'm not defending their actions but if you're susceptible/suggestible and read enough of these articles spewing bile, or just reading through the comments under the articles. Is it possible they feel compelled to do something about it?
That list of British MPs to be killed is quite sad and amusing at the same time. The first one - and the actual Prime Minister at the time - was shot because the assassin wanted compensation from Russia for a period of imprisonment. I am willing to guess that he never received said compensation. On the plus side, his widow and family got lots of money from a public aid drive. Then everyone else - barring Jo Cox, of course - fell victim to the Irish thing in its various forms, and I'm sure that there is a nice research paper / newspaper article to be written about those assassinations in light of the changing nature of the Ireland problem/Troubles/Peace Process. Then Jo Cox gets shot by a Brexit nutter (is this right? I've not been following the news that closely).
It does seem that when you spend a year planning to kill Trump, and then are foiled at the very first step of your plan, that perhaps the evidence in favour of your intelligence is not great. I mean, surely you want to wait until you can at least see your intended victim before you draw the attention of the police?
Granted I wouldve shed no tears had trump been shot,
Charming.
MrMoustaffa wrote: he is the worst human being possible to run as president
[Citation Needed]
MrMoustaffa wrote: .... but doing that wouldve only turned him into a martyr for the people following him. If anything it would just make the bitter division between parties and races/religions/immigrants even worse than it already is.
Agreed. There have been many people calling for DJT's death since he's been labelled a bigot and racist (co-incidentally, since he began running against a Democrat) but you have to assume these are just hyperbolic statements to vent frustration, like practically all online death threats.
Anyone with two brain-cells to rub together can see its counter intuitive to off the opposition's leader.
Aside from making your own side look bad, galvanizing opposition to yoir cause, I'm reminded of this quote by Pratchett:
Terry wrote:“Shoot the dictator and prevent the war? But the dictator is merely the tip of the whole festering boil of social pus from which dictators emerge; shoot him and there'll be another one along in a minute. Shoot him too? Why not shoot everyone and invade Poland?”
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Charles Rampant wrote: That list of British MPs to be killed is quite sad and amusing at the same time. The first one - and the actual Prime Minister at the time - was shot because the assassin wanted compensation from Russia for a period of imprisonment. I am willing to guess that he never received said compensation. On the plus side, his widow and family got lots of money from a public aid drive. Then everyone else - barring Jo Cox, of course - fell victim to the Irish thing in its various forms, and I'm sure that there is a nice research paper / newspaper article to be written about those assassinations in light of the changing nature of the Ireland problem/Troubles/Peace Process.
Ah the Irish thing. I was once asked if we celebrated Guy Fawkes day in Ireland. I explained we'd probably have a holiday if he'd gotten away with it.
Charles Rampant wrote: It does seem that when you spend a year planning to kill Trump, and then are foiled at the very first step of your plan, that perhaps the evidence in favour of your intelligence is not great. I mean, surely you want to wait until you can at least see your intended victim before you draw the attention of the police?
The plan he'd been working on for a year involved the clever use of flags, but it turned out the Yanks already had one.
There's a lot of bigotry everywhere, the US isn't unique in that regard. Trump is basically the result of one party getting hoist by its own petard and its dogma resulting in the breakdown of party discipline.
That said, the assassination attempt by a foreign national will probably only help fuel that dogma, though it appears the incident isn't receiving top tier coverage so maybe it'll just fade away quickly.
According to the court papers, Mr Sandford said he had never fired a gun before but went to a range in Las Vegas on 17 June to learn how to shoot.
At Saturday's rally at the Treasure Island Casino, he allegedly tried to grab the officer's weapon because it was in an unlocked position and therefore, he said, the easiest way to get a gun to shoot Mr Trump.
Court documents say Mr Sandford acknowledged he knew he would only be able to fire one or two rounds, and expected to be killed during an attempt on Mr Trump's life.
He told police if he had not tried to kill Mr Trump at this rally he would have tried again at a rally in Phoenix, for which he had already booked tickets, the papers say.
He told investigators he had been in the US for one and a half years and drove to Las Vegas from California specifically to kill Mr Trump, the court papers say.
Court research showed he was unemployed, living out of his car and in the US illegally, the Associated Press news agency reports.
A federal public defender said he had autism and had attempted suicide, the agency adds.
He said he had been planning to try to shoot Mr Trump for about a year but had decided to act now because he finally felt confident enough to do so, court papers say
1 year...
.. and this is the best idea he could come up with ?!
They serve tea in USA jails right ?
ok an Illegal with mental issues, this is not gonna go over well and feel its gonna be brought up, meanwhile most of the media is keeping it low key, because they know this will not go over well, unlike the BBC who is distancing England from this wacko. as for the last bit, what can I say a PD is trying to go for the mentally unstable card.
Agreed. There have been many people calling for DJT's death since he's been labelled a bigot and racist (co-incidentally, since he began running against a Democrat)
Running against a democrat has nothing to do with it. It's down to the fact that he made racist and bigoted statements, to try and win an election. The running against a democrat is a function of the system, not a reason why people are claiming anything.
Agreed. There have been many people calling for DJT's death since he's been labelled a bigot and racist (co-incidentally, since he began running against a Democrat)
Running against a democrat has nothing to do with it. It's down to the fact that he made racist and bigoted statements, to try and win an election. The running against a democrat is a function of the system, not a reason why people are claiming anything.
no but a Jihadist claiming mass shooter, Zika Virus, crazy illegal Brit shooters and a angry foreign national taking hostages in a WalMart are not exactly hurting his claims either. and that is just the last month.
Agreed. There have been many people calling for DJT's death since he's been labelled a bigot and racist (co-incidentally, since he began running against a Democrat)
Running against a democrat has nothing to do with it. It's down to the fact that he made racist and bigoted statements, to try and win an election. The running against a democrat is a function of the system, not a reason why people are claiming anything.
no but a Jihadist claiming mass shooter, Zika Virus, crazy illegal Brit shooters and a angry foreign national taking hostages in a WalMart are not exactly hurting his claims either. and that is just the last month.
Which claims? That Muslims thronged the streets to cheer on September 11? That a judge born in America with Mexican heritage is incapable of giving his con job of a university a fair trial? That he had no idea who the KKK guy supporting him was, and that he'd never met him? That President Obama is a secret foreign-born Muslim who had a hand in the Orlando shooting? Or how about this gem from the seventies -
Donald Trump With Possible Actual Hair wrote:And isn’t it funny. I’ve got black accountants at Trump Castle and Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it, the only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.
He's being called a bigot and racist because of all the bigoted and racist stuff he says. There's no conspiracy.
And what does Zika have to do with anything?
That said, please don't shoot him. We don't need assassinations in our politics. Glad they stopped the guy.
Agreed. There have been many people calling for DJT's death since he's been labelled a bigot and racist (co-incidentally, since he began running against a Democrat)
Running against a democrat has nothing to do with it. It's down to the fact that he made racist and bigoted statements, to try and win an election. The running against a democrat is a function of the system, not a reason why people are claiming anything.
no but a Jihadist claiming mass shooter, Zika Virus, crazy illegal Brit shooters and a angry foreign national taking hostages in a WalMart are not exactly hurting his claims either. and that is just the last month.
Which claims? That Muslims thronged the streets to cheer on September 11? That a judge born in America with Mexican heritage is incapable of giving his con job of a university a fair trial? That he had no idea who the KKK guy supporting him was, and that he'd never met him? That President Obama is a secret foreign-born Muslim who had a hand in the Orlando shooting? Or how about this gem from the seventies -
Donald Trump With Possible Actual Hair wrote:And isn’t it funny. I’ve got black accountants at Trump Castle and Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it, the only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.
He's being called a bigot and racist because of all the bigoted and racist stuff he says. There's no conspiracy.
And what does Zika have to do with anything?
That said, please don't shoot him. We don't need assassinations in our politics. Glad they stopped the guy.
the Orlando shooter who claimed he was doing the shooting for ISIL and even named the groups leader, but nice try on trying to remove what was the obvious point, the problem is yes Trump says a lot of Bigoted stuff, also where do you get the racist from? Bigoted? yes, Racist? don't think so, but then again when people are faced with a reality they do not like they will claim Racism even though none exists in what they are claiming it on. sad thing is those who claim racism where none exists, are racists themselves. even though they might not realize it. as to the KKK guy hell I don't even know his name, nor do I care to. right now this country is a powder keg and it takes only one small spark to set it ablaze, and right now way things are going it will happen and happen soon and it will Clinch Trumps spot in the presidency, for good or bad whether we like him or not he will be president, will he be a good president? no, will he be a bad president? no he will be a lame duck president who gets nothing done, but might actually get the government to enforce its own laws, which is why people will vote for him.
As too the Zika virus it is an infection spreading into the US, go read about it.
As too the Zika virus it is an infection spreading into the US, go read about it.
Obama is weak against Zika Virus immigration. Is that what you're saying? You are being asked to clarify why you added the Zika Virus to the list of reasons "he's been labelled a bigot and racist".
As too the Zika virus it is an infection spreading into the US, go read about it.
Obama is weak against Zika Virus immigration. Is that what you're saying? You are being asked to clarify why you added the Zika Virus to the list of reasons "he's been labelled a bigot and racist".
as to the Zika virus never said it made sense, but then again you probably thought the same thing during the Swine flu epidemic, or the avian flu epidemic.
As too the Zika virus it is an infection spreading into the US, go read about it.
Obama is weak against Zika Virus immigration. Is that what you're saying? You are being asked to clarify why you added the Zika Virus to the list of reasons "he's been labelled a bigot and racist".
What do any facts about the Orlando shooter have to do with Trump insinuating President Obama had a hand in his attack?
Suggesting that a man with Mexican heritage - and, again, being born in the United States - cannot give Trump an objective trial solely because of that heritage is quite racist, actually. So is suggesting that black people are worse accountants than Jewish people. It's perfectly possible to dislike someone, or even recognize that someone's racism, without being racist; I have absolutely nothing against Oompa-Loompas, I just can't stand Donald Trump.
Funny how trump said basically the same thing about the KKK guy, despite, you know. Actually having met and talked to him.
I know what Zika is. Has Trump said anything about it? I still don't see how that's relevant.
I used to think the country was super-divided and about to go to war with itself too. My freshman year of college was a somewhat confused time.
As too the Zika virus it is an infection spreading into the US, go read about it.
Obama is weak against Zika Virus immigration. Is that what you're saying? You are being asked to clarify why you added the Zika Virus to the list of reasons "he's been labelled a bigot and racist".
as to the Zika virus never said it made sense, but then again you probably thought the same thing during the Swine flu epidemic, or the avian flu epidemic.
If you have any point to make at all, then please come out and make it because so far all I'm seeing in this line of conversation is akin to the mutterings of Foul Ole Ron.
Spinner wrote: What do any facts about the Orlando shooter have to do with Trump insinuating President Obama had a hand in his attack?
Suggesting that a man with Mexican heritage - and, again, being born in the United States - cannot give Trump an objective trial solely because of that heritage is quite racist, actually. So is suggesting that black people are worse accountants than Jewish people. It's perfectly possible to dislike someone, or even recognize that someone's racism, without being racist; I have absolutely nothing against Oompa-Loompas, I just can't stand Donald Trump.
Funny how trump said basically the same thing about the KKK guy, despite, you know. Actually having met and talked to him.
I know what Zika is. Has Trump said anything about it? I still don't see how that's relevant.
I used to think the country was super-divided and about to go to war with itself too. My freshman year of college was a somewhat confused time.
No Trump never said anything about Zika Virus, the problem is he doesn't its already in peoples heads a disease coming from central and south America and such is spreading it causes harm to children before they are born. so what do you think people will start doing to slow or prevent the disease? look what was done during the swine flu epidemic, or the Avian flu epidemic across the world, during the swine flu epidemic I remember whole countries banning anyone from Mexico or who had been to Mexico lately from entering their country.
as to the Judge, I would look for anything and everything to get him discredited why? because that will help me.
and just like I hate Clinton more then I hate Trump, see Trumps supporters are two fold, those who like him, and those who hate Clinton.
Dear god Asterios you make it so hard to follow rule 1. You remind me of Alex Jones.
In all honesty this incredibly surprising a Brit tried his hand at this. I am curious did they give this guys age? I could honestly see that playing a factor in why his 'cunning' plan failed.
lonestarr777 wrote: Dear god Asterios you make it so hard to follow rule 1. You remind me of Alex Jones.
In all honesty this incredibly surprising a Brit tried his hand at this. I am curious did they give this guys age? I could honestly see that playing a factor in why his 'cunning' plan failed.
From the look of him I'd say early to mid 20s ish? Apparently he went to a shooting range to practice firing a glock beforehand. What's the minimum age to use a shooting range in Vegas? Might give us a lower limit at least.
So you think Trump will rise on a Zika-based wave of hysteria? I think he's already got most of the crazy reactionary knee-jerk gut-instinct-is-better-than-actually-thinking demographic on his side, yeah, but I don't think that's going to be anywhere near enough. Walls don't keep out mosquitoes.
Would you say something racist about the judge in his case? Would that not make you a racist? What if you had a history of racist comments, would that make a difference?
I notice there's a couple points you didn't address there.
lonestarr777 wrote: Dear god Asterios you make it so hard to follow rule 1. You remind me of Alex Jones.
In all honesty this incredibly surprising a Brit tried his hand at this. I am curious did they give this guys age? I could honestly see that playing a factor in why his 'cunning' plan failed.
From the look of him I'd say early to mid 20s ish?
think he was 27 or 28, might be younger not sure.
Spinner wrote: So you think Trump will rise on a Zika-based wave of hysteria? I think he's already got most of the crazy reactionary knee-jerk gut-instinct-is-better-than-actually-thinking demographic on his side, yeah, but I don't think that's going to be anywhere near enough. Walls don't keep out mosquitoes.
problem is you think people vote rationally, they don't they vote emotionally.
As too the Zika virus it is an infection spreading into the US, go read about it.
Obama is weak against Zika Virus immigration. Is that what you're saying? You are being asked to clarify why you added the Zika Virus to the list of reasons "he's been labelled a bigot and racist".
Oh contraire, Obama has deported twice as many Zika immigrants as the previous administration!
Re-topic. Seriously, with all the hostility, all our Presidential candidates need to be doubly protected. Unseriously-this is the best British assassin? Come on, I thought you guys had Liam Neeson. Now there's a man with a very special set of skills.
Coming summer 2017-Liam Neeson- Assassin Accountant! He'll kill your taxes, and the bad guys!
Spinner wrote: So you think Trump will rise on a Zika-based wave of hysteria? I think he's already got most of the crazy reactionary knee-jerk gut-instinct-is-better-than-actually-thinking demographic on his side, yeah, but I don't think that's going to be anywhere near enough. Walls don't keep out mosquitoes.
problem is you think people vote rationally, they don't they vote emotionally.
I suspect most people's emotional response to Donald Trump is "Urgh, look at that enormous racist pumpkin and his tiny, tiny hands."
Mdlbuildr wrote: Did someone in this thread actually say that they'd be okay with Trump being shot????
So you're okay with mortal violence against someone who doesn't share your beliefs, are you?
Sounds like you're a worse human being than you claim Trump is whoever you are. Disgraceful.
Hey, being shot worked wonders for Reagan, politically. If this guy were better at it and Trump survived being shot then it could have been the biggest boost to Trumps campaign and not cost him a cent.
Mdlbuildr wrote: Did someone in this thread actually say that they'd be okay with Trump being shot????
So you're okay with mortal violence against someone who doesn't share your beliefs, are you?
Sounds like you're a worse human being than you claim Trump is whoever you are. Disgraceful.
The nearest was " I wouldve shed no tears had trump been shot...but doing that wouldve only turned him into a martyr."
So that's a anti-assassination, and nuanced response, unlike yours, which takes aim at a foe who exists only in your own head. Now, who does that remind me of...
As too the Zika virus it is an infection spreading into the US, go read about it.
Obama is weak against Zika Virus immigration. Is that what you're saying? You are being asked to clarify why you added the Zika Virus to the list of reasons "he's been labelled a bigot and racist".
Oh contraire, Obama has deported twice as many Zika immigrants as the previous administration!
Re-topic. Seriously, with all the hostility, all our Presidential candidates need to be doubly protected.
Unseriously-this is the best British assassin? Come on, I thought you guys had Liam Neeson. Now there's a man with a very special set of skills.
Coming summer 2017-Liam Neeson- Assassin Accountant! He'll kill your taxes, and the bad guys!
Pffft, our best assassin (according to conspiracy theorists at least) is drunk drivers and the french paparazzi.
Mdlbuildr wrote: Did someone in this thread actually say that they'd be okay with Trump being shot????
So you're okay with mortal violence against someone who doesn't share your beliefs, are you?
Sounds like you're a worse human being than you claim Trump is whoever you are. Disgraceful.
The nearest was " I wouldve shed no tears had trump been shot...but doing that wouldve only turned him into a martyr."
So that's a anti-assassination, and nuanced response, unlike yours, which takes aim at a foe who exists only in your own head. Now, who does that remind me of...
Dude, WTF are you talking about?
"I would've shed no tears had trump been shot" = I am okay if that happens.
I don't mince words. The fact that you're actually trying to justify someone saying that about another human being is nauseating to me.
As too the Zika virus it is an infection spreading into the US, go read about it.
Obama is weak against Zika Virus immigration. Is that what you're saying? You are being asked to clarify why you added the Zika Virus to the list of reasons "he's been labelled a bigot and racist".
Oh contraire, Obama has deported twice as many Zika immigrants as the previous administration!
Re-topic. Seriously, with all the hostility, all our Presidential candidates need to be doubly protected.
Unseriously-this is the best British assassin? Come on, I thought you guys had Liam Neeson. Now there's a man with a very special set of skills.
Coming summer 2017-Liam Neeson- Assassin Accountant! He'll kill your taxes, and the bad guys!
Pffft, our best assassin (according to conspiracy theorists at least) is drunk drivers and the french paparazzi.
funny thing is a Brit broke into Buckingham Palace not once but twice while the Royal family was there, and this is the best they can send at us? what the US is not worthy of the Best the UK has to offer?
Mdlbuildr wrote: Did someone in this thread actually say that they'd be okay with Trump being shot????
So you're okay with mortal violence against someone who doesn't share your beliefs, are you?
Sounds like you're a worse human being than you claim Trump is whoever you are. Disgraceful.
The nearest was " I wouldve shed no tears had trump been shot...but doing that wouldve only turned him into a martyr."
So that's a anti-assassination, and nuanced response, unlike yours, which takes aim at a foe who exists only in your own head. Now, who does that remind me of...
Dude, WTF are you talking about?
"I would've shed no tears had trump been shot" = I am okay if that happens.
I don't mince words. The fact that you're actually trying to justify someone saying that about another human being is nauseating to me.
I'm not justifying the quote - I'm explaining it to you, as you don't seem to understnad.
It's a well-known phrase about nasty people - but he is quite specifically saying he wouldn't want him murdered. Which is more than Trump has said for many others, as he's fairly well-known for inciting violence.
Mdlbuildr wrote: Did someone in this thread actually say that they'd be okay with Trump being shot????
So you're okay with mortal violence against someone who doesn't share your beliefs, are you?
Sounds like you're a worse human being than you claim Trump is whoever you are. Disgraceful.
The nearest was " I wouldve shed no tears had trump been shot...but doing that wouldve only turned him into a martyr."
So that's a anti-assassination, and nuanced response, unlike yours, which takes aim at a foe who exists only in your own head. Now, who does that remind me of...
Mdlbuildr wrote: Did someone in this thread actually say that they'd be okay with Trump being shot????
So you're okay with mortal violence against someone who doesn't share your beliefs, are you?
Sounds like you're a worse human being than you claim Trump is whoever you are. Disgraceful.
The nearest was " I wouldve shed no tears had trump been shot...but doing that wouldve only turned him into a martyr."
So that's a anti-assassination, and nuanced response, unlike yours, which takes aim at a foe who exists only in your own head. Now, who does that remind me of...
Dude, WTF are you talking about?
"I would've shed no tears had trump been shot" = I am okay if that happens.
I don't mince words. The fact that you're actually trying to justify someone saying that about another human being is nauseating to me.
I'm not justifying the quote - I'm explaining it to you, as you don't seem to understnad.
It's a well-known phrase about nasty people - but he is quite specifically saying he wouldn't want him murdered. Which is more than Trump has said for many others, as he's fairly well-known for inciting violence.
Actually you are.
What saying the foe is in my head means to me is that you don't see a problem with someone saying they don't mind if someone gets shot. Then you continue by comparing me with who exactly???
Give me a break. Don't insult me by thinking I am fool and treating me that way.
Mdlbuildr wrote: Did someone in this thread actually say that they'd be okay with Trump being shot????
So you're okay with mortal violence against someone who doesn't share your beliefs, are you?
Sounds like you're a worse human being than you claim Trump is whoever you are. Disgraceful.
The nearest was " I wouldve shed no tears had trump been shot...but doing that wouldve only turned him into a martyr."
So that's a anti-assassination, and nuanced response, unlike yours, which takes aim at a foe who exists only in your own head. Now, who does that remind me of...
actually someone said that, the post was removed.
I can't find it in the moderation log.
didn't say a moderator removed it, just that the post was removed, or more to the point the comment was removed.
Mdlbuildr wrote: Did someone in this thread actually say that they'd be okay with Trump being shot????
So you're okay with mortal violence against someone who doesn't share your beliefs, are you?
Sounds like you're a worse human being than you claim Trump is whoever you are. Disgraceful.
The nearest was " I wouldve shed no tears had trump been shot...but doing that wouldve only turned him into a martyr."
So that's a anti-assassination, and nuanced response, unlike yours, which takes aim at a foe who exists only in your own head. Now, who does that remind me of...
Dude, WTF are you talking about?
"I would've shed no tears had trump been shot" = I am okay if that happens.
I don't mince words. The fact that you're actually trying to justify someone saying that about another human being is nauseating to me.
I'm not justifying the quote - I'm explaining it to you, as you don't seem to understnad.
It's a well-known phrase about nasty people - but he is quite specifically saying he wouldn't want him murdered. Which is more than Trump has said for many others, as he's fairly well-known for inciting violence.
Actually you are.
What saying the foe is in my head means to me is that you don't see a problem with someone saying they don't mind if someone gets shot. Then you continue by comparing me with who exactly???
Give me a break. Don't insult me by thinking I am fool and treating me that way.
I'll bite. I wouldn't mind if Trump got shot, the guy is a prophet of hate, violence, ignorance, racism, and xenophobia.
As too the Zika virus it is an infection spreading into the US, go read about it.
Obama is weak against Zika Virus immigration. Is that what you're saying? You are being asked to clarify why you added the Zika Virus to the list of reasons "he's been labelled a bigot and racist".
as to the Zika virus never said it made sense, but then again you probably thought the same thing during the Swine flu epidemic, or the avian flu epidemic.
Don't forget the ebola one as well.
It's astonishing, given these waves of pestilence that there's any of you left.
As too the Zika virus it is an infection spreading into the US, go read about it.
Obama is weak against Zika Virus immigration. Is that what you're saying? You are being asked to clarify why you added the Zika Virus to the list of reasons "he's been labelled a bigot and racist".
Oh contraire, Obama has deported twice as many Zika immigrants as the previous administration!
Re-topic. Seriously, with all the hostility, all our Presidential candidates need to be doubly protected.
Unseriously-this is the best British assassin? Come on, I thought you guys had Liam Neeson. Now there's a man with a very special set of skills.
Coming summer 2017-Liam Neeson- Assassin Accountant! He'll kill your taxes, and the bad guys!
Pffft, our best assassin (according to conspiracy theorists at least) is drunk drivers and the french paparazzi.
funny thing is a Brit broke into Buckingham Palace not once but twice while the Royal family was there, and this is the best they can send at us? what the US is not worthy of the Best the UK has to offer?
Racist, bigoted, gak stirring Trump is a credible candidate for most powerful man in the world, in a country where transpeople in a bathroom are considered more of a threat than violent armed radicals, criminals, terrorists and trigger happy police. As far as I'm concerned the US isn't fit to lick our boots right now.
As too the Zika virus it is an infection spreading into the US, go read about it.
Obama is weak against Zika Virus immigration. Is that what you're saying? You are being asked to clarify why you added the Zika Virus to the list of reasons "he's been labelled a bigot and racist".
Oh contraire, Obama has deported twice as many Zika immigrants as the previous administration!
Re-topic. Seriously, with all the hostility, all our Presidential candidates need to be doubly protected.
Unseriously-this is the best British assassin? Come on, I thought you guys had Liam Neeson. Now there's a man with a very special set of skills.
Coming summer 2017-Liam Neeson- Assassin Accountant! He'll kill your taxes, and the bad guys!
Pffft, our best assassin (according to conspiracy theorists at least) is drunk drivers and the french paparazzi.
funny thing is a Brit broke into Buckingham Palace not once but twice while the Royal family was there, and this is the best they can send at us? what the US is not worthy of the Best the UK has to offer?
Racist, bigoted, gak stirring Trump is a credible candidate for most powerful man in the world, in a country where transpeople in a bathroom are considered more of a threat than violent armed radicals, criminals, terrorists and trigger happy police. As far as I'm concerned the US isn't fit to lick our boots right now.
Nice try, but assassination attempts like this are just a waste of time. Even if he was successful, the Illuminati will just put together another clone and it will be like it never even happened. They say you can tell which generation a clonetrump is by how orange its skin gets.
Racist, bigoted, gak stirring Trump is a credible candidate for most powerful man in the world, in a country where transpeople in a bathroom are considered more of a threat than violent armed radicals, criminals, terrorists and trigger happy police. As far as I'm concerned the US isn't fit to lick our boots right now.
You really want to go down that road?? Because of course, there are no bigots and racists in your Government right?
The USA is still and will always be the greatest country in the World. Gladly, since you don't like it, you've found your own place to live. Keep reading all that rubbish though.
Thank you, Necros. Thank you so much. Now I'm picturing the Archer 'clone bone' joke, except with Trump instead of Krieger.
You monster.
Kind of interesting that Trump hasn't tweeted anything about the attempt; I was expecting him to talk about how he has only the best security, just the best.
The USA is still and will always be the greatest country in the World.
Ooh, I do like a good, reasoned debate! Tell us what other countries you've lived in, working and hanging out with other people? I really loved my time living and working in Chicago, San Francisco and many other US locations, but I'm always ready to learn from folk with more life experience than me.
Obviously you will have lived in the UK, to make such a statement.
(and I personally don't care, countries can't be ranked like best albums in High Fidelity).
The USA is still and will always be the greatest country in the World.
Ooh, I do like a good, reasoned debate! Tell us what other countries you've lived in, working and hanging out with other people? I really loved my time living and working in Chicago, San Francisco and many other US locations, but I'm always ready to learn from folk with more life experience than me.
Israel, Canada, France and the USA. In the USA, I've lived in PA, NJ, TX and VA.
The USA is still and will always be the greatest country in the World.
Ooh, I do like a good, reasoned debate! Tell us what other countries you've lived in, working and hanging out with other people? I really loved my time living and working in Chicago, San Francisco and many other US locations, but I'm always ready to learn from folk with more life experience than me.
Israel, Canada, France and the USA. In the USA, I've lived in PA, NJ, TX and VA.
So what?
I call lies. If you lived in Canada, you would know it's the greatest and best.
Wait.. you didn't stay in Toronto, did you? Toronto is... not Canada.
mdlbuilder, I don't think the (deranged) Brit was enacting a critique of your country - merely your candidate, who seems to have attracted a certain amount of controversy.
mdlbuilder, I don't think the (deranged) Brit was enacting a critique of your country - merely your candidate, who seems to have attracted a certain amount of controversy.
Did I read that right where he was in the US for a year and a half? Doesn't that mean he overstayed his visa and is an illegal alien? Shouldn't he have been deported a year ago?
Assassination is such a stupid idea. He could have gone to California, signed up for benefits and voted in the general election like every other illegal.
mdlbuilder, I don't think the (deranged) Brit was enacting a critique of your country - merely your candidate, who seems to have attracted a certain amount of controversy.
we don't really know why he was going to shoot Trump, maybe because he thought Trump had magical powers? or? who knows? all he said is he wanted to shoot Trump, as to reason or why its all speculative at this point.
reds8n wrote: The various territorial pissings over which country is harder, better,. ..... faster,..... ..hmmm ....?...... stronger
... damnit that is catchy ! .
The dark side is strong, give in to the dark side, let it consume you.
Breotan wrote: Did I read that right where he was in the US for a year and a half? Doesn't that mean he overstayed his visa and is an illegal alien? Shouldn't he have been deported a year ago?
Assassination is such a stupid idea. He could have gone to California, signed up for benefits and voted in the general election like every other illegal.
Student Visas are good for as long as you can prove active enrollment. He was a student right?
Breotan wrote: Did I read that right where he was in the US for a year and a half? Doesn't that mean he overstayed his visa and is an illegal alien? Shouldn't he have been deported a year ago?
Certainly seems to be the case.
Assassination is such a stupid idea. He could have gone to California, signed up for benefits and voted in the general election like every other illegal.
mdlbuilder, I don't think the (deranged) Brit was enacting a critique of your country - merely your candidate, who seems to have attracted a certain amount of controversy.
Breotan wrote: Did I read that right where he was in the US for a year and a half? Doesn't that mean he overstayed his visa and is an illegal alien? Shouldn't he have been deported a year ago?
Assassination is such a stupid idea. He could have gone to California, signed up for benefits and voted in the general election like every other illegal.
Student Visas are good for as long as you can prove active enrollment. He was a student right?
he was living in his car, so I'd say no.
and so far California has not allowed illegals the ability to vote yet or legally. but give it time, they already gave them drivers licenses. and now health care.
Necros wrote: Nice try, but assassination attempts like this are just a waste of time. Even if he was successful, the Illuminati will just put together another clone and it will be like it never even happened. They say you can tell which generation a clonetrump is by how orange its skin gets.
Breotan wrote: Did I read that right where he was in the US for a year and a half? Doesn't that mean he overstayed his visa and is an illegal alien? Shouldn't he have been deported a year ago?
Assassination is such a stupid idea. He could have gone to California, signed up for benefits and voted in the general election like every other illegal.
Student Visas are good for as long as you can prove active enrollment. He was a student right?
he was living in his car, so I'd say no.
and so far California has not allowed illegals the ability to vote yet or legally. but give it time, they already gave them drivers licenses. and now health care.
Living out of one's car is actually a pretty common thing college students do, especially in California.
Heck, at the college I'm signing up for, board and food costs TWICE AS MUCH as the tuition does. Luckily I'm 24 and can live off campus, because the cost to go would be astronomical otherwise. I can buy a 30 foot RV and live on a lot for 4 years for cheaper than a single year on campus if that gives you an idea of how bad some colleges are. Keep in mind the lot has all utilities paid, free boat launching, security cameras, and even a gate. I dont blame people one bit for considering homelessness, especially students going for masters. It would save them tens of thousands of dollars, especially in California where cost of living is astronomical.
So yeah, I can totally buy that the guy may have been living out of his car and going to school. Only thing is that his age may have prevented him from having the option, but that varies massively based on the school.
Combine this with the stress of being autistic and suicidal, it really starts to explain why he just hopped in his car one day and thought that going after Trump would be a good idea. Given how he's apparently talking to the cops and telling them everything, the guy probably didnt have a lot going for him and felt going out as a "hero" was better than jumping off a bridge, especially considering he expected to die in the attempt.
As too the Zika virus it is an infection spreading into the US, go read about it.
Obama is weak against Zika Virus immigration. Is that what you're saying? You are being asked to clarify why you added the Zika Virus to the list of reasons "he's been labelled a bigot and racist".
Oh contraire, Obama has deported twice as many Zika immigrants as the previous administration!
Re-topic. Seriously, with all the hostility, all our Presidential candidates need to be doubly protected.
Unseriously-this is the best British assassin? Come on, I thought you guys had Liam Neeson. Now there's a man with a very special set of skills.
Coming summer 2017-Liam Neeson- Assassin Accountant! He'll kill your taxes, and the bad guys!
Pffft, our best assassin (according to conspiracy theorists at least) is drunk drivers and the french paparazzi.
funny thing is a Brit broke into Buckingham Palace not once but twice while the Royal family was there, and this is the best they can send at us? what the US is not worthy of the Best the UK has to offer?
Racist, bigoted, gak stirring Trump is a credible candidate for most powerful man in the world, in a country where transpeople in a bathroom are considered more of a threat than violent armed radicals, criminals, terrorists and trigger happy police. As far as I'm concerned the US isn't fit to lick our boots right now.
Really want to start this, England?
I'm from Northern Ireland, actually. feth England, couldn't give a toss, but I love the UK
Racist, bigoted, gak stirring Trump is a credible candidate for most powerful man in the world, in a country where transpeople in a bathroom are considered more of a threat than violent armed radicals, criminals, terrorists and trigger happy police. As far as I'm concerned the US isn't fit to lick our boots right now.
You really want to go down that road?? Because of course, there are no bigots and racists in your Government right?
The USA is still and will always be the greatest country in the World. Gladly, since you don't like it, you've found your own place to live. Keep reading all that rubbish though.
Absolutely not, Westminster is full of them, but its tactical. You vote for those so other people get into power. You may not necessarily like the racist fether himself, but you're willing to bite the bullet so his colleague succeeds or someone worse stays out. Still not great but better than the US, where you actively vote for a man, a man, not a party with diverse members but a singular man who's campaign rests on hatred and distrust. The very fact a citizen of another country is so disgusted and concerned by him, that he would risk life and liberty in an attempted assassination(!) doesn't indicate to you there is something wrong? This isn't about which is better, this is about people, yourself seemingly included, content to live in a country of oppression, violence, police brutality, homophobia, racism, bigotry, a country actively hated by numerous countries and individuals, where anyone, from a madman to a psychopath, can get a gun, and murder dozens of people, and name it freedom. Where people will take a known bigot, racist, sexist, hateful man like Trump and celebrate him like the second coming of Christ. My country may have those people in power but the good hearted people among us are disgusted by them, the selfish see them as a necessary evil. I can almost hear the eagles in your post but I'd be ashamed to be an American in this day in age.
Asterios wrote: I'm wondering what his immigration stance was? just saying I cannot imagine for the life of me why he would do something like that, yeah can see any home grown idiot going after a president and/or candidate, but someone from overseas with a country we are friendly with? something about this seems odd to say the least.
Well this guy apparently lived in the USA, but that aside you've not noticed the sheer, gaping, uncomprehending horror that most folk outside the US feel at the prospect of a Trump presidency? From our perspective, the man is a lunatic, and you guys seem intend on putting him in charge of the world's most advanced army and huge stockpile of nukes. Frankly I'm surprised it's taken this long for someone to have a pop at him(which, before anyone bunches up, is not to condone such attempts, killing people is always wrong except in immediate, unavoidable self-defence, even Trump).
Asterios wrote: I'm wondering what his immigration stance was? just saying I cannot imagine for the life of me why he would do something like that, yeah can see any home grown idiot going after a president and/or candidate, but someone from overseas with a country we are friendly with? something about this seems odd to say the least.
Well this guy apparently lived in the USA, but that aside you've not noticed the sheer, gaping, uncomprehending horror that most folk outside the US feel at the prospect of a Trump presidency? From our perspective, the man is a lunatic, and you guys seem intend on putting him in charge of the world's most advanced army and huge stockpile of nukes. Frankly I'm surprised it's taken this long for someone to have a pop at him(which, before anyone bunches up, is not to condone such attempts, killing people is always wrong except in immediate, unavoidable self-defence, even Trump).
yes and how you see Trump I see Hillary, I consider her a danger to this country (especially our secrets) and would not wish her as our President, would rather have a blo-hard who talks out of the side of his neck then her. also you seem to give the presidency more power then it actually has.
Mdlbuildr wrote: Hillary will be indicted for Treason before November, and no one will vote for Bernie...
I suspect you are going to be very, very disappointed in a few months.
LOL, perhaps. Perhaps not.
I've posted many times on this forum, Hillary will not be charged with any crime. Worst case scenario, she gets hit with a token fine for "a mistake" or something along that line. The press' Give o' Feth meter will immediately drop to zero.
The Clintons are like the mafia. They sit at the head of a powerful, organized machine and have many, many friends.
I've posted many times on this forum, Hillary will not be charged with any crime. Worst case scenario, she gets hit with a token fine for "a mistake" or something along that line. The press' Give o' Feth meter will immediately drop to zero.
I'm not so sure of that if Trump becomes President. A long shot, I know, LOL.
Asterios wrote: I'm wondering what his immigration stance was? just saying I cannot imagine for the life of me why he would do something like that, yeah can see any home grown idiot going after a president and/or candidate, but someone from overseas with a country we are friendly with? something about this seems odd to say the least.
Well this guy apparently lived in the USA, but that aside you've not noticed the sheer, gaping, uncomprehending horror that most folk outside the US feel at the prospect of a Trump presidency? From our perspective, the man is a lunatic, and you guys seem intend on putting him in charge of the world's most advanced army and huge stockpile of nukes. Frankly I'm surprised it's taken this long for someone to have a pop at him(which, before anyone bunches up, is not to condone such attempts, killing people is always wrong except in immediate, unavoidable self-defence, even Trump).
yes and how you see Trump I see Hillary, I consider her a danger to this country (especially our secrets) and would not wish her as our President, would rather have a blo-hard who talks out of the side of his neck then her. also you seem to give the presidency more power then it actually has.
Hillary is a standard-issue corporatist sleazebag with regulation closet skeletons - she's doubtless a despicable person and would be an awful President, but she's not mental and she doesn't appear to be actively trying to start a race war. If Dems had any sense they'd run headlong into the arms of Sanders and thank jeebus that Trump's candidacy gives a genuine radical(by American standards, Sanders would be a barely-left-of centrist over here) an actual shot at election. Instead they went with an insincere policy-Facedancer who's perhaps the only politician available with favourability ratings in the same ballpark as Trump's. They're not so much shooting themselves in the foot as gnawing it off and eating it while setting themselves on fire, and so now we have the bizarre scenario of Euro lefties hoping that a hawkish, pro-corporate, pro-banker pseudo-Democrat gets elected because the alternative is Dodo the Clown and his Race Baiting Carnival.
I went to school with the kid, he was a few years younger than me but friends with my brother, and I worked with both his parents whilst I was still at school.
I have no idea what could have happened here as he is the least political person you could imagine. I can't imagine that he was in college or employment due to his health problems, he only went to the US to be with his US girlfriend he met whilst she was over here. His Aspergers and mental health problems meant he could be quiet easily influenced so I wouldn't be surprised if someone has put him up to this or made a comment in jest that he has taken seriously.
I really hope they don't throw the book at him as he really needs some real, professional help rather than 10 years in jail which would destroy him.
Aeneades wrote: I went to school with the kid, he was a few years younger than me but friends with my brother, and I worked with both his parents whilst I was still at school.
I have no idea what could have happened here as he is the least political person you could imagine. I can't imagine that he was in college or employment due to his health problems, he only went to the US to be with his US girlfriend he met whilst she was over here. His Aspergers and other mental health problems meant he could be quiet easily influenced so I wouldn't be surprised if someone has put him up to this or made a comment in jest that he has taken seriously.
I really hope they don't throw the book at him as he really needs some real, professional help rather than 10 years in jail which would destroy him.
The charge they'd indicted him with sounds like it's "not the book".
mdlbuilder, I don't think the (deranged) Brit was enacting a critique of your country - merely your candidate, who seems to have attracted a certain amount of controversy.
mdlbuilder, I don't think the (deranged) Brit was enacting a critique of your country - merely your candidate, who seems to have attracted a certain amount of controversy.
Well, heck, the US is already isolating itself in this scenario. Build a wall, seal the borders, keep the terrorists out, call the debts in, watch everyone's economy tank. Nobody wins.
Isolationism is laughable in this global age. The fact that I can type this and you guys can all read it at the same time speaks volumes.
But even in Earth-80085, where Trump becomes president, he wouldn't close down international trade to 'keep money domestic'; how would he have all his campaign shirts and hats and such made in China if that happened?
The USA is still and will always be the greatest country in the World.
Ooh, I do like a good, reasoned debate! Tell us what other countries you've lived in, working and hanging out with other people? I really loved my time living and working in Chicago, San Francisco and many other US locations, but I'm always ready to learn from folk with more life experience than me.
Obviously you will have lived in the UK, to make such a statement.
(and I personally don't care, countries can't be ranked like best albums in High Fidelity).
Lets not go there shall we. We all know US is #1 Hurr.:
1. Our assassins finish the job!
2. TexMex vs. haggis. Texmex is food. Haggis is a weaponized WMD.
3. You do have one advantage though. You should focus on that:
Lets not go there shall we. We all know US is #1 Hurr.:
2. TexMex vs. haggis. Texmex is food. Haggis is a weaponized WMD.
I believe this is a point in our favour. - Particularly being Scottish. After all, we eat it. If we take that supposition, then logically, that means we're dead 'ard us.
I also submit that not only is Scotland's national motto an explicit threat. "Nemo me impune lacessit." - "Noone provokes me without impunity." Or, in Scots, "wha daurs meddle wie me?" (Who dares meddle with us?) but, even our airports motto is an implicit threat.
"Pure deid brilliant." - Pure dead brilliant.
Oh yeah, and our national animal is a unicorn. A frikking unicorn.
And that's me not even speaking for England, Wales or Northern Ireland.
The Clintons are like the mafia. They sit at the head of a powerful, organized machine and have many, many friends.
That they are, but in the end, they may end up just like all those movie Mafiosos. Somehow, it always catches up with them.
God I hope so! It would be poetic justice indeed.
It's really sad that we have to choose between people like Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. Trump is by far the lesser of the two evils, IMO. At least he knows better than to blame the guns for all the violence in America.
Personally, my fear is that there will be massive election fraud and Hillary will win by cheating. Which, given her track record, would not really surprise me if it happened. And then all of a sudden any evidence of her wrongdoings will disappear, as will anyone who brought up those wrongdoings...
A lot of Americans think Hilary Clinton is way too powerful, and they may have a point, but there's a lot of similarities to Nixon, and we all know how that ended.
Clinton will probably get her Watergate. I've got Oliver Stone lined up to direct the inevitable movie, with Matt Damon and Jennifer Lawrence as the leads, with Tom Cruise playing Trump, Cruise desperately trying to method act his way to an Oscar win
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: A lot of Americans think Hilary Clinton is way too powerful, and they may have a point, but there's a lot of similarities to Nixon, and we all know how that ended.
Clinton will probably get her Watergate. I've got Oliver Stone lined up to direct the inevitable movie, with Matt Damon and Jennifer Lawrence as the leads, with Tom Cruise playing Trump, Cruise desperately trying to method act his way to an Oscar win
I thought we had an excellent video with Johnny Depp?
I am not a supporter of killing people off we do not agree with.
There is however, no small amount of terror in thinking of Trump becoming president.
Is there a risk? yes, would it be a severe thing? yes.
We could surmise from the poor "execution" of this would-be assassin's plans that he is not an overly creative type and was probably running out of ideas on how to stop Trump.
Media outlets say that if the USA called in all it's debts owed by other countries, our deficit would be eradicated, but it would possibly bankrupt some of the countries that owe.
It has also been said that at a time when the USA was extremely prosperous, it gave more to other countries than it should have. Can any other country claim this? I don't know. I'masking.
I don't see other countries running to help the USA when we are in need. Do you?
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: A lot of Americans think Hilary Clinton is way too powerful, and they may have a point, but there's a lot of similarities to Nixon, and we all know how that ended.
Clinton will probably get her Watergate. I've got Oliver Stone lined up to direct the inevitable movie, with Matt Damon and Jennifer Lawrence as the leads, with Tom Cruise playing Trump, Cruise desperately trying to method act his way to an Oscar win
I thought we had an excellent video with Johnny Depp?
I am not a supporter of killing people off we do not agree with.
There is however, no small amount of terror in thinking of Trump becoming president.
Is there a risk? yes, would it be a severe thing? yes.
We could surmise from the poor "execution" of this would-be assassin's plans that he is not an overly creative type and was probably running out of ideas on how to stop Trump.
If Trump does become President, I hope to God that checks and balances system that Americans talk about, is up to the job. We're going to need it.
Mdlbuildr wrote: Media outlets say that if the USA called in all it's debts owed by other countries, our deficit would be eradicated, but it would possibly bankrupt some of the countries that owe.
It has also been said that at a time when the USA was extremely prosperous, it gave more to other countries than it should have. Can any other country claim this? I don't know. I'masking.
I don't see other countries running to help the USA when we are in need. Do you?
Media outlets say that, do they? Which ones? Where? Do we need help that other countries can provide?
I don't know. I'm just asking.
With regards to the pre-edit "LOL", global economic crisis is awesome, isn't it? Certainly can't see anything going horribly wrong in a country that blames us for being in financial shambles.
Media outlets say that, do they? Which ones? Where? Do we need help that other countries can provide?
I don't know. I'm just asking.
With regards to the pre-edit "LOL", global economic crisis is awesome, isn't it? Certainly can't see anything going horribly wrong in a country that blames us for being in financial shambles.
I absolutely LOVE the passive aggressive rhetoric in the OT forum, LMAO.
I was actually asking an honest question. Nice to know you have nothing to add to my question other than, well, passive aggressive rhetoric.
There already IS a Global Economic Crisis. Look at Venezuela, Greece, and Puerto Rico just to name a few.
I was asking honest questions too. I have little to no trust for 'well, people say' statements without any backup, and I'm genuinely curious what you think other countries need to help us with.
Yeah, things aren't necessarily great economically, but I don't see how tanking the economies of other countries would be a good thing for us. Or, you know. Funny.
You're the richest country in the world by nearly a factor of two. You don't need money help, you need people help.
Edit: simultaneous posting fethed up the quote function
What is particularly funny in the crisis is that Canadian banks did the "right thing' and had little housing crisis issues (loaning out to high-risk prospects) so we started off looking pretty good.
Then all the Americans had to do was have their government "back their debts".
Funny, we are a somewhat "Socialist" government but in times of crisis, the USA is worse in that regard.
So the American dollar is better because the government is willing to cover what Capitalism failed to protect against (let us not forget the automotive industry).
No need for back-biting comments, they can be direct.
The Americans have always managed to rewrite the rules to their advantage because they are the economic engine in the world.
When India or China wrestles most of that away it will be a strange new world for sure.
What I would make as a cautionary note in line with the topic at hand: Trump is more of an isolationist which is demonstrated by his penchant for building walls.
The less involvement the USA has in the world, the less relevant they become.
That guy could set the country back by a decade with his "policies".
It is all about "preserving" what they have, keeping the unworthy out "making America great again"... rather curmudgeon talk for a "risk taking, self made, capitalist".
One thing I think we can all agree on: Trump certainly knows how to create strong feelings in people.
I just hope he manages a little control... uh, nevermind... he should keep doing what he is doing.
You're the richest country in the world by nearly a factor of two. You don't need money help, you need people help.
Edit: simultaneous posting fethed up the quote function
We have been for generations and it has harmed our economy so badly we are struggling now. If we are so rich, why can't the elderly afford their medicines? Why do we have homeless veterans? We need to secure our infrastructure and take care of our own now.
For generations, every time there is a world crisis Americans are expected to help while foreign nations tear us apart for our policies. If you care to read these OT forums a little, you will see exactly what I'm talking about. World wide Americans are hated, until of course, there is a crisis and then we lend a helping hand anyway.
You're right. We need to help people. OUR people. First and foremost. If we aren't helping our own, how can we justify helping everyone else?
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Spinner wrote: I'm genuinely curious what you think other countries need to help us with.
My apologies as I took your comment out of context. My bad.
I guess it's not so much as we need help, as we don't need to be helping others who can help themselves, but don't because it's better for them to ask for hand outs.
For example, the Middle East has the richest regimes in the World, yet their countries ask us for Military aid AND expect our taxpayers to pay for it. Hell, no. You want help, either pay for a private security detail, or help foot the bill for our help. They don't. Billions in aid are spent on those areas of the World with absolutely zero in return.
The exception is Israel, who trades military funding for military technology and military know how that is invaluable to our National Security.
djones520 wrote: We'll smuggle them across Lake Huron, that's how.
Southern Ontario in Canada has a long and fine history of smuggling during prohibition.
Trump's walls would appear kinda fun unless he is serious about shooting trespassers off his lawn.
I honestly think he is an old curmudgeon who is afraid people who had to work harder than him may take his lunch money.
Not all of us get to be a heir to a fortune and have a short memory of bankruptsy or the various help he had along the way.
Well, I guess he can add a checkmark to "assassination attempt", if he is not angering people enough to see him harm, he must be doing it wrong.
djones520 wrote: We'll smuggle them across Lake Huron, that's how.
Southern Ontario in Canada has a long and fine history of smuggling during prohibition.
Trump's walls would appear kinda fun unless he is serious about shooting trespassers off his lawn.
I honestly think he is an old curmudgeon who is afraid people who had to work harder than him may take his lunch money.
Not all of us get to be a heir to a fortune and have a short memory of bankruptsy or the various help he had along the way.
Well, I guess he can add a checkmark to "assassination attempt", if he is not angering people enough to see him harm, he must be doing it wrong.
That's another time Canada helped our neighbours out! They had a bit of an episode and threw out all their booze. The next day they realized their terrible mistake and we helped them out by sharing ours until they could get the keys back to the liquor cabinet.
But imminent President-elect Drumpf is an isolationist. That would run counter to implementing what future historians will refer to as "America's Great Northern Folly".
I wonder did trump decide not to visit Ireland due to our long history of political assassination? Maybe he was browsing YouTube and saw some of those videos where the I.R.A said Thatcher checked under her car with a mirror every morning...
But imminent President-elect Drumpf is an isolationist. That would run counter to implementing what future historians will refer to as "America's Great Northern Folly".
Ah the War of 1812-also known as payback for Belgium in my family That was pre-Texas. We're much more aggressive now.
But imminent President-elect Drumpf is an isolationist. That would run counter to implementing what future historians will refer to as "America's Great Northern Folly".
Ah the War of 1812-also known as payback for Belgium in my family That was pre-Texas. We're much more aggressive now.
Belgians. The people that are too stuck up to even be French.
Your Weenie Legions will flounder in the snow of our True North Winter. We will once again burn the White House and hang the orange scalp of your leader from the tallest maple tree!
Belgians. The people that are too stuck up to even be French.
Don't say that in the north of our country, my friend. I don't guarantee your safety for insulting our Flemish neightbours in the worst possible way.
Anyway, we Belgian have no reason to send an assassin to get rid of Trump. He said Belgium was a really nice city after all. It makes sense; for American people, Belgium is such a tiny country that it can only be seen as a mere city in comparision to the size of USA.
Your Weenie Legions will flounder in the snow of our True North Winter. We will once again burn the White House and hang the orange scalp of your leader from the tallest maple tree!
and we shall keep out the northern border crossers:
Tunisia, Turkey, Lebanon, Morocco, Iraq, and Kuwait called in to say "Learn a book, Seth".
LMAO, how about we dispense of the personal stabs shall we?? Once again, the passive aggressive nature of this OT forum is astounding.
I don't know any one that would consider Turkey, Morocco and Tunisia as part of "Middle East" when discussing regional conflicts.
One of Lebanon's Political parties is Hezbollah. Even though Politicos consider it a "Democratic" society, it is more Socialist and is a constant state of Political Turmoil.
Iraq and Kuwait are Democracies? Really?
Maybe I should have clarified. Israel is the only FUNCTIONAL Democracy in the Middle East. Does that make you feel better, now? If you really want to split hairs, I'm up for it.
Tunisia, Turkey, Lebanon, Morocco, Iraq, and Kuwait called in to say "Learn a book, Seth".
To an extent. Kuwait is not a democracy. Iraq is a a tribal "thing" now. Turkey is sliding into dictatorship as we speak unless the military does one of its every couple of decade resets. The other ones-generally, but of course they are in West Africa, not the Middle East.
Jordan is a constitutional monarchy. IDK how democratic it is. Less than Israel.
That said, if you start by deciding that Israel is the only democracy in the area, and anything different isn't democracy, it's easy to find reasons why none of the other countries count.
Holland, Spain and the UK also are constitutional monarchies and therefore less democratic than Israel. I don't think a lot of people would seriously say these countries aren't democracies, though.
Mdlbuildr wrote: LMAO, how about we dispense of the personal stabs shall we?? Once again, the passive aggressive nature of this OT forum is astounding.
I don't know any one that would consider Turkey, Morocco and Tunisia as part of "Middle East" when discussing regional conflicts.
I think the not so passive or aggressive statement is that there are a few places of easy reference.
If you google "Countries of the Middle East" the first quote is from the "Britannica":
" Geographers and historians do not always agree on which countries should be included in the Middle East. People commonly include the following countries: Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, Egypt, Libya, and Sudan.Aug 14, 2014"
At the very least it does outline that not everyone is in agreement of what all of the "Middle East" entails.
One of Lebanon's Political parties is Hezbollah. Even though Politicos consider it a "Democratic" society, it is more Socialist and is a constant state of Political Turmoil.
It is a wee bit like being a little bit pregnant: Democratic or not?
I thought Bush was heavy handed and the various corporate bailouts could have me discount the USA as socialist... splitting hairs a bit.
Maybe I should have clarified. Israel is the only FUNCTIONAL Democracy in the Middle East. Does that make you feel better, now? If you really want to split hairs, I'm up for it.
Israel does not have a written constitution so that can get rather hair splitting when it comes to "functional".
I think what people are "rising to the bait" is when sweeping statements are made stated as fact that are factually incorrect or on shaky ground with no cited reference: they are fair game for "attack".
You wish to have your opinions to be received as "expert" opinions but without backing them up with fact, you will either be corrected or ignored.
Mdlbuildr wrote: LMAO, how about we dispense of the personal stabs shall we?? Once again, the passive aggressive nature of this OT forum is astounding.
I don't know any one that would consider Turkey, Morocco and Tunisia as part of "Middle East" when discussing regional conflicts.
I think the not so passive or aggressive statement is that there are a few places of easy reference.
If you google "Countries of the Middle East" the first quote is from the "Britannica":
" Geographers and historians do not always agree on which countries should be included in the Middle East. People commonly include the following countries: Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, Egypt, Libya, and Sudan.Aug 14, 2014"
At the very least it does outline that not everyone is in agreement of what all of the "Middle East" entails.
One of Lebanon's Political parties is Hezbollah. Even though Politicos consider it a "Democratic" society, it is more Socialist and is a constant state of Political Turmoil.
It is a wee bit like being a little bit pregnant: Democratic or not?
I thought Bush was heavy handed and the various corporate bailouts could have me discount the USA as socialist... splitting hairs a bit.
Maybe I should have clarified. Israel is the only FUNCTIONAL Democracy in the Middle East. Does that make you feel better, now? If you really want to split hairs, I'm up for it.
Israel does not have a written constitution so that can get rather hair splitting when it comes to "functional".
I think what people are "rising to the bait" is when sweeping statements are made stated as fact that are factually incorrect or on shaky ground with no cited reference: they are fair game for "attack".
You wish to have your opinions to be received as "expert" opinions but without backing them up with fact, you will either be corrected or ignored.
Try harder!
Errr do you know what passive aggressive is? Perhaps use wikkipedia as it is sooooo true to fact all the time! (See, THAT is what passive aggressive is. Being a sarcastic SOB to get a point across. I think).
It looks I'm not the only one disputing whether some of the countries are indeed democratic or not.
Passive aggressive incoming!!! Yes, because my goal in life is to convince people on the internet they are wrong!! (See how that works?) Now comes the passive agressive people who are going to argue that I don't know what passive aggressive is.
Just FYI and BTW, you don't have to say "It's my opinion" when you write something. Unless cited with FACT (which doesn't come from FOX News or wikkipedia), it is obviously assumed that what you say is in fact your opinion.
Ergo: It is MY OPINION that Israel is the only functional democracy in the Middle East. Is that better for everyone?
Mdlbuildr wrote: Errr do you know what passive aggressive is? Perhaps use wikkipedia as it is sooooo true to fact all the time! (See, THAT is what passive aggressive is. Being a sarcastic SOB to get a point across. I think).
Your unwillingness to expand your knowledge and look something up, but happy to tell others to do, is rather presumptuous.
"Passive aggressive is sullen behavior coupled with procrastination and stubbornness.", just for you I checked Wikipedia.
I would add my opinion it is used by those who wish to avoid confrontation.
I will give a hint: If anyone replies back: they have no problem with confrontation.
It looks I'm not the only one disputing whether some of the countries are indeed democratic or not.
Passive aggressive incoming!!! Yes, because my goal in life is to convince people on the internet they are wrong!! (See how that works?) Now comes the passive agressive people who are going to argue that I don't know what passive aggressive is.
See how this works: you are incorrect on so many of your statements and seem to be making every effort to make a smoke screen like the statements above.
You do not even try to prove your statements, that is rather lazy which I am sure you will confuse it with "cant be bothered".
Why do you fear being wrong?
Just FYI and BTW, you don't have to say "It's my opinion" when you write something. Unless cited with FACT (which doesn't come from FOX News or wikkipedia), it is obviously assumed that what you say is in fact your opinion.
You lose that comfortable assumption when you shoot down what someone has to say and are dismissive about it.
Then some matter of proof is needed so that you do not appear to be "making it up as you go". FYI and BTW if you wish to join a debating group any time soon.
Ergo: It is MY OPINION that Israel is the only functional democracy in the Middle East. Is that better for everyone?
I unfortunately seemed to have missed what you had to say as evidence to summarize your opinion.
BUT I can say with no sarcasm (not being passive aggressive!) it is great that you have been able to clearly state an opinion. I would be interested to hear from those of a similar opinion...
Nothing passive here... more attack bordering on bad manners on my part.
What is being strongly refuted is that Israel has not cornered the market in the Middle East for governments that represent "the people" rather than a King or dictator.
Democracy is not the sole means for the general population to be heard in politics, it is like dismissing people based on their religion.
Looking into their political system can assist in understanding why a country behaves the way it does and their people.
So with all this political and religious pressure: why did Michael Sandford want to kill Trump so bad?
feeder wrote: I suspect he wanted to end his life and this is a way of going out in a blaze of glory.
The amount of reckless hyperbole at this election may have led this young man to think he was doing a noble deed.
I hate to say many have died for less.
Good point.
Also a couple of posts up, I talk about Lebanon and Hezzbollah and also the fact that it is sliding to more a Socialist state as a reason I don't consider that particular country is a Democracy. Another poster similarly wrote something to that effect. Did you not read that? DId you just not agree with it and decide to discount what I said just because?? Another problem in this OT forum is things like what you just did. Is there a reading comprehension issue?
Let's turn this around. What do YOU consider a democracy?? That people vote for their Leaders? Which people? How old? What gender? Show your cards.
For the second year in a row the Government banned the Gay Pride Parade and when people tried to march anyway, the Police shot tear gas at them. Now THAT'S a Democracy!!
How is that a functional Democracy for those arguing with me about it?
Sort of like when the Southern Civil Rights marchers had tear gas shot at them in the USA during the '60's? Were we not a functioning democracy then?
Democracy is not a one size fits all concept and certainly doesn't get practiced and applied evenly throughout the world. Calling one functional or non-functional is way too simplistic and subjective, at best.
For the second year in a row the Government banned the Gay Pride Parade and when people tried to march anyway, the Police shot tear gas at them. Now THAT'S a Democracy!!
How is that a functional Democracy for those arguing with me about it?
So the Government uses their power as representatives of the people to ban the Gay Pride Parade, people break the law, and the Police stopped them with tear gas. How is that not democracy? It's illiberal, bigoted, and anti-humanist, but it's not undemocratic.
You're conflating "democracy" with "liberal" or "progressive".
For the second year in a row the Government banned the Gay Pride Parade and when people tried to march anyway, the Police shot tear gas at them. Now THAT'S a Democracy!!
How is that a functional Democracy for those arguing with me about it?
There is goal post moving, and then there is Mdlbuildr.
Bravo, sir.
Whether you admit it or not, Turkey is a Democracy, as is Jordan and all of the other countries I posted. Was the US not a democracy during the Jim Crow laws, or right now when the LGBT community is being denied rights in the south?
There is goal post moving, and then there is Mdlbuildr.
Bravo, sir.
I really have no idea what this means. Don't take stabs at me. If you have something to say, say it. You don't like what I have to say, that's okay, but cut the crap. Thanks.
From this and the earlier reports, it just seems he's a kid with mental issues. I hope he just gets sent to an institution to help him instead of jail, but you know how gakky our justice system is.
From this and the earlier reports, it just seems he's a kid with mental issues. I hope he just gets sent to an institution to help him instead of jail, but you know how gakky our justice system is.
Couldn't we in the UK request he be sent back here on the proviso that he serve his time in one of our institutions?
From this and the earlier reports, it just seems he's a kid with mental issues. I hope he just gets sent to an institution to help him instead of jail, but you know how gakky our justice system is.
Couldn't we in the UK request he be sent back here on the proviso that he serve his time in one of our institutions?
Extradition? Possibly, I'm not sure how it works exactly.
I believe that we have a right to request extradition same as US does to their citizens and criminals in other countries which is why the smart ones go to countries without extradition. I also believe its a countries duty to protect its citizens from other countries in situations such as this. A clearly confused and afraid individual with mental health issues facing long long time in a top federal prison to get beat up and shower molested and all those other things that apparently go on in US prisons.
That said, the UK is currently unable to wipe its own backside due to Brexit and the PM resigned, doubt things will get done.
I think extradition only applies if the crime was committed here, we can't extradite him home for a crime committed there.
However I'm pretty sure if he is tried and convicted there he can serve some/all of his sentence here if the US agree, there are other in our jails currently under similar circumstances (at least from other countries). Would clearly be better for the poor lad if he was closer to home, though I'm not sure time in a British jail would be any less unpleasant.
From this and the earlier reports, it just seems he's a kid with mental issues. I hope he just gets sent to an institution to help him instead of jail, but you know how gakky our justice system is.
Couldn't we in the UK request he be sent back here on the proviso that he serve his time in one of our institutions?
Extradition? Possibly, I'm not sure how it works exactly.
Extradition is when you ask for the return of someone so you can prosecute them for crimes they committed under your laws and jurisdiction . He hasn't broken any UK laws in UK jurisdiction by attempting to cap Trump, so they have no grounds for extradition.
Frankly, attempting to cap someone running for head of state deserves to be punished. I hope he gets a decently long sentence in a Fed pen. I suspect if some US national attempted to cap the Queen, regardless of how fethed up he was, not many folks would be hoping he 'got the help he needed' instead of a hefty prison sentence.
Darkjim wrote: I think extradition only applies if the crime was committed here, we can't extradite him home for a crime committed there.
However I'm pretty sure if he is tried and convicted there he can serve some/all of his sentence here if the US agree, there are other in our jails currently under similar circumstances (at least from other countries). Would clearly be better for the poor lad if he was closer to home, though I'm not sure time in a British jail would be any less unpleasant.
A very sad case.
Whilst true that time in a british jail may not be any more pleasant, it does mean that those responsible for his welfare are answerable to the british people. Which I think is quite important if the suspect in question is a UK citizen and would be at high risk, as may be the case here.
And after all, he is an illegal immigrant, surely the US would rather the UK foots the bill for his incarceration than they do
From this and the earlier reports, it just seems he's a kid with mental issues. I hope he just gets sent to an institution to help him instead of jail, but you know how gakky our justice system is.
Couldn't we in the UK request he be sent back here on the proviso that he serve his time in one of our institutions?
Extradition? Possibly, I'm not sure how it works exactly.
Frankly, attempting to cap someone running for head of state deserves to be punished. I hope he gets a decently long sentence in a Fed pen. I suspect if some US national attempted to cap the Queen, regardless of how f***ed up he was, not many folks would be hoping he 'got the help he needed' instead of a hefty prison sentence.
If he was as clearly messed up as this guy, I would. Possibly Her Maj too.
How can anyone think these are good excuses? "He was a good kid, he couldn't hurt a fly. Yes he tried to steal a gun and shoot a man but he was a great person! He doesn't belong in a prison with other murderers and attempted murderers!"
His parents are in complete denial about how horrid their son is.
If he needs psychiatric help he will have access to one in prison where he belongs. He certainly does not belong with society, who knows when "America needs saving again" or when he might have the urge to kill someone for disagreeing with him again.
CptJake wrote: Frankly, attempting to cap someone running for head of state deserves to be punished. I hope he gets a decently long sentence in a Fed pen. I suspect if some US national attempted to cap the Queen, regardless of how fethed up he was, not many folks would be hoping he 'got the help he needed' instead of a hefty prison sentence.
Nah, I'd say the same thing no matter who he tried to assassinate, the point being he didn't succeed, and is clearly not all together mentally. That's why I said he should go to a mental institution, where he can get help. And should sever out his sentence there. Or even longer is he is still considered a danger.
How can anyone think these are good excuses? "He was a good kid, he couldn't hurt a fly. Yes he tried to steal a gun and shoot a man but he was a great person! He doesn't belong in a prison with other murderers and attempted murderers!"
His parents are in complete denial about how horrid their son is.
If he needs psychiatric help he will have access to one in prison where he belongs. He certainly does not belong with society, who knows when "America needs saving again" or when he might have the urge to kill someone for disagreeing with him again.
There is goal post moving, and then there is Mdlbuildr.
Bravo, sir.
I really have no idea what this means. Don't take stabs at me. If you have something to say, say it. You don't like what I have to say, that's okay, but cut the crap. Thanks.
I said it very plainly and directly.
You don't know what goal post moving means.
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Deadshot wrote: So back to the topic, whichis the assassination attempt, this popped up on my News Feed
Won't be long before the hysteria spills over again. People like this kid who are already at the frayed end of "functioning" in society, are very vulnerable to extreme rhetoric.
jhe90 wrote: Charged under US law and then serve time in UK..
Not sure that would work.
It's fairly common, actually. You have to be convicted in the foreign country first, and you have to serve out the proper sentence in your own country. It's probably less like between US and UK as both countries are English speaking so there isn't a peculiar detriment to being in the other jail.
There is goal post moving, and then there is Mdlbuildr.
Bravo, sir.
I really have no idea what this means. Don't take stabs at me. If you have something to say, say it. You don't like what I have to say, that's okay, but cut the crap. Thanks.
I said it very plainly and directly.
You don't know what goal post moving means.
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Deadshot wrote: So back to the topic, whichis the assassination attempt, this popped up on my News Feed
I would be fine with a long term in a mental hospital, though. Sounds like he may be touched
There term you are looking for is suffering from a mental illness. This guy is sick and deserves the proper medical treatment rather than locked up and throw away the key. The kid is scared and vulnerable, incapable of processing hyperbole and clearly believes Trump is a genuine threat to the safety of the world (and is probably right as well).
Deadshot wrote: incapable of processing hyperbole and clearly believes Trump is a genuine threat to the safety of the world (and is probably right as well).
not the world, he said he shot Trump since somebody needs to stand up for America. lovely people from other countries feel we need to be protected from ourselves?
Deadshot wrote: incapable of processing hyperbole and clearly believes Trump is a genuine threat to the safety of the world (and is probably right as well).
not the world, he said he shot Trump since somebody needs to stand up for America. lovely people from other countries feel we need to be protected from ourselves?
Aye well that too, if people are actually considering voting for them maybe you do. The fact a racist lunatic businessman, who's first moments of fame were a racist allegation and is quite bluntly a bigoted buffoon, is a legitimate candidate for POTUS, is seriously worrying to every other country in the world.
Deadshot wrote: incapable of processing hyperbole and clearly believes Trump is a genuine threat to the safety of the world (and is probably right as well).
not the world, he said he shot Trump since somebody needs to stand up for America. lovely people from other countries feel we need to be protected from ourselves?
Aye well that too, if people are actually considering voting for them maybe you do. The fact a racist lunatic businessman, who's first moments of fame were a racist allegation and is quite bluntly a bigoted buffoon, is a legitimate candidate for POTUS, is seriously worrying to every other country in the world.
then be worried, be very worried especially when he wins, the fact anyone can put any credence into him doing even half the things he says he will do are not very smart about how the Government works.
Deadshot wrote: incapable of processing hyperbole and clearly believes Trump is a genuine threat to the safety of the world (and is probably right as well).
not the world, he said he shot Trump since somebody needs to stand up for America. lovely people from other countries feel we need to be protected from ourselves?
Aye well that too, if people are actually considering voting for them maybe you do. The fact a racist lunatic businessman, who's first moments of fame were a racist allegation and is quite bluntly a bigoted buffoon, is a legitimate candidate for POTUS, is seriously worrying to every other country in the world.
then be worried, be very worried especially when he wins, the fact anyone can put any credence into him doing even half the things he says he will do are not very smart about how the Government works.
Its no what he says he'll do, its that A) people believe him B) people want him. And its also not "the Government," its the US government. There are other governments and contrary to popular belief the universe isn't America-centric.
So we see what is coming through Trump.
He loves to fear-monger because he thinks the weak will gravitate to him since he is "tough" and a "winner" and all those racy alpha-male descriptions.
It is amazing how using 4th grade level language, repetition and being loud can be confused with leadership qualities.
The funny thing is, anyone that actually IS an alpha-male sees he cannot argue his way out of a paper-bag.
He says he always wins, because the one thing he is smart with is not putting himself in a position where he has a chance to lose.
Have you seen Trump try a debate with Obama?
You know who would slaughter who?
This article is a rather interesting an observation from Obama on Trump's rise:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/12/president-obamas-brutal-assessment-of-the-rise-of-donald-trump/ "So if you don’t care about the facts, or the evidence, or civility, in general in making your arguments, you will end up with candidates who will say just about anything and do just about anything. And when your answer to every proposal that I make, or Democrats make is no, it means that you’ve got to become more and more unreasonable because that’s the only way you can say no to some pretty reasonable stuff. And then you shouldn’t be surprised when your party ultimately has no ideas to offer at all."
Trump is a certainly a threat to democratic process.
He would not tolerate "red tape" or anyone else's opinion so you can be sure he will try to trim or circumvent many systems that really are there to keep people like him in check.
Do you honestly think he will happily represent the "will of the people"?
Yeah you get a chance and possibly vote him in but then for 4 years he does anything he wants and too bad for you.
Seeing a democratic process that people feel less faith in, you can see why more radicalized methods of solving problems is considered.
So many violent options seem to get things done in the world so why not fall back on a more direct approach?
Trump is so divisive that yes, even a murderer would be lauded as a hero in some circles so that is all the justification some people need.
I always liked Plato and back in the day public service was an honorable thing and it cannot be said so well as now:
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
When having a discussion, no, I don't. Care to explain?
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Talizvar wrote: So we see what is coming through Trump.
He loves to fear-monger because he thinks the weak will gravitate to him since he is "tough" and a "winner" and all those racy alpha-male descriptions.
It is amazing how using 4th grade level language, repetition and being loud can be confused with leadership qualities.
The funny thing is, anyone that actually IS an alpha-male sees he cannot argue his way out of a paper-bag.
He says he always wins, because the one thing he is smart with is not putting himself in a position where he has a chance to lose.
Have you seen Trump try a debate with Obama?
You know who would slaughter who?
This article is a rather interesting an observation from Obama on Trump's rise:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/03/12/president-obamas-brutal-assessment-of-the-rise-of-donald-trump/ "So if you don’t care about the facts, or the evidence, or civility, in general in making your arguments, you will end up with candidates who will say just about anything and do just about anything. And when your answer to every proposal that I make, or Democrats make is no, it means that you’ve got to become more and more unreasonable because that’s the only way you can say no to some pretty reasonable stuff. And then you shouldn’t be surprised when your party ultimately has no ideas to offer at all."
Trump is a certainly a threat to democratic process.
He would not tolerate "red tape" or anyone else's opinion so you can be sure he will try to trim or circumvent many systems that really are there to keep people like him in check.
Do you honestly think he will happily represent the "will of the people"?
Yeah you get a chance and possibly vote him in but then for 4 years he does anything he wants and too bad for you.
Seeing a democratic process that people feel less faith in, you can see why more radicalized methods of solving problems is considered.
So many violent options seem to get things done in the world so why not fall back on a more direct approach?
Trump is so divisive that yes, even a murderer would be lauded as a hero in some circles so that is all the justification some people need.
I always liked Plato and back in the day public service was an honorable thing and it cannot be said so well as now:
"The penalty good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
My goodness, where to begin.
Our Democratic leaders have been feeding us lies for 8 years now. Anytime they are opposed, they say that their opposition are "racist", bigots" or "xenophobes".
They have been violently opposed to any ideals that are not theirs, which is evident by the many times Trump supports try to gather. The argument is that "Trump incites violence", but it is not his followers being violent. The way to oppose your opponent is not to throw rocks and eggs at them. Forcibly remove thier clothing and burn it, nor tear down tents and yell obscenities at armed guards.
In this very thread, people have said they wouldn't "mind" if Trump were shot. Killed perhaps. Really? This is the mind of a reasonable opposition?
When certain of our Democratic upper leadership are faced with facts, they are twisted by those who follow them and the media who support them wholeheartedly and blindly. One of which is actually going to be their Presidential nominee while under investigation by the FBI for treason.
You are Canadian. Why are your countrymen so keen on our Political process? I can tell you categorically that very few in the USA cares a rip about Canadian politics. The only they care about is how low your dollar goes so they can get a cheap vacation.
Please explain how Trump is a threat to the Democratic Process.If he is voted in as our next President via the Democratic Process, the process is working as intended. Obama is amuch bigger threat when he takes directives without consulting the people voted in to represent The People. Especially when these directives are not in his jurisdiction in the first place. THAT's a huge threat to the Democratic Process. Other Presidents from both parties have done this in the past. Were they a threat, too? I guess they weren't if you agreed with them, right?
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Spinner wrote: The original democracy only allowed adult, non-slave males who owned land to vote.
"Democracy" doesn't always mean fair, or even good. It's simply a form of government where citizens are allowed to vote.
Right so if some citizens aren't allowed to vote, it's not a Democracy?
Well, considering the founders of Democracy only allowed a portion of their population to vote (Non-slave males), I'd say the definition is a bit broader then people tend to paint it with.
Co'tor Shas wrote: Democracy just means that, in some form or other, the "people" vote. It's a pretty general term.
Not exactly.
According to political scientist Larry Diamond, it consists of four key elements: (a) A political system for choosing and replacing the government through free and fair elections; (b) The active participation of the people, as citizens, in politics and civic life; (c) Protection of the human rights of all citizens, and (d) A rule of law, in which the laws and procedures apply equally to all citizens.[3]
Co'tor Shas wrote: Democracy just means that, in some form or other, the "people" vote. It's a pretty general term.
Not exactly.
According to political scientist Larry Diamond, it consists of four key elements: (a) A political system for choosing and replacing the government through free and fair elections; (b) The active participation of the people, as citizens, in politics and civic life; (c) Protection of the human rights of all citizens, and (d) A rule of law, in which the laws and procedures apply equally to all citizens.[3]
And according to political scientist me, it doesn't. Yay appeal to authority!
Co'tor Shas wrote: Democracy just means that, in some form or other, the "people" vote. It's a pretty general term.
Not exactly.
According to political scientist Larry Diamond, it consists of four key elements: (a) A political system for choosing and replacing the government through free and fair elections; (b) The active participation of the people, as citizens, in politics and civic life; (c) Protection of the human rights of all citizens, and (d) A rule of law, in which the laws and procedures apply equally to all citizens.[3]
Which is more than just a democracy. You may be thinking of "liberal democracy" or suchlike.
Co'tor Shas wrote: Democracy just means that, in some form or other, the "people" vote. It's a pretty general term.
Not exactly.
According to political scientist Larry Diamond, it consists of four key elements: (a) A political system for choosing and replacing the government through free and fair elections; (b) The active participation of the people, as citizens, in politics and civic life; (c) Protection of the human rights of all citizens, and (d) A rule of law, in which the laws and procedures apply equally to all citizens.[3]
And according to political scientist me, it doesn't. Yay appeal to authority!
OMG, it's the "because I said so" argument. I never heard that one before!!!
Co'tor Shas wrote: Democracy just means that, in some form or other, the "people" vote. It's a pretty general term.
Not exactly.
According to political scientist Larry Diamond, it consists of four key elements: (a) A political system for choosing and replacing the government through free and fair elections; (b) The active participation of the people, as citizens, in politics and civic life; (c) Protection of the human rights of all citizens, and (d) A rule of law, in which the laws and procedures apply equally to all citizens.[3]
And according to political scientist me, it doesn't. Yay appeal to authority!
OMG, it's the "because I said so" argument. I never heard that one before!!!
I don't see the problem. I'm a political scientist, Larry Diamond is a political scientist. We're at an impasse.
Alternatively, you could stop trying to appeal to authority.
I don't agree with the definition, but I'm afraid he is not making an appeal to authority, you are. An appeal to authority is when someone claims to be an expert, or claims someone is an expert who is not, not when someone quotes a recognised expert. That's good debating. I agree that is the definition of a liberal democracy, but it is not an appeal to authority.
Steve steveson wrote: I don't agree with the definition, but I'm afraid he is not making an appeal to authority, you are. An appeal to authority is when someone claims to be an expert, not when someone quotes a recognised expert. That's good debating. I agree that is the definition of a liberal democracy, but it is not an appeal to authority.
Mdlbuildr wrote: Our Democratic leaders have been feeding us lies for 8 years now. Anytime they are opposed, they say that their opposition are "racist", bigots" or "xenophobes".
How about I will agree that if it suits a politician, any one of them would consider smearing their opponent with those labels.
The Republican campaigns seem to be the more enthusiastic of the parties in this regard.
Wouldn't any of those labels fit more easily with Trump than anyone else?
It is because of the methodology of the Republican party that made his rise possible: he throws dirt better than they do.
All this is covered rather eloquently in the link I had.
They have been violently opposed to any ideals that are not theirs, which is evident by the many times Trump supports try to gather. The argument is that "Trump incites violence", but it is not his followers being violent. The way to oppose your opponent is not to throw rocks and eggs at them. Forcibly remove their clothing and burn it, nor tear down tents and yell obscenities at armed guards.
None of the behaviors you outline is acceptable for either group.
The more correct term is that "Trump incites controversy".
He likes to live in that zone, it gives him the press he wants.
Plus since he is known for modifying/rewording/ or claiming we misunderstood him, he will just spin it a different way... it seems acceptable for him but impossible for others.
In this very thread, people have said they wouldn't "mind" if Trump were shot. Killed perhaps. Really? This is the mind of a reasonable opposition?
I would consider lazy speak for saying "they wish he would go away".
Truly wishing someone's death is a rather personal thing... "they do not understand what they are saying.".
When certain of our Democratic upper leadership are faced with facts, they are twisted by those who follow them and the media who support them wholeheartedly and blindly. One of which is actually going to be their Presidential nominee while under investigation by the FBI for treason.
Investigation is common in the political world.
It does not indicate guilt, just that systems are working.
Quoting specific allegations would be helpful to understand the point you are trying to make.
You are Canadian.
Why are your countrymen so keen on our Political process?
I can tell you categorically that very few in the USA cares a rip about Canadian politics.
The only they care about is how low your dollar goes so they can get a cheap vacation.
I heard it quoted often "When the US gets a cold, Canada gets the flu."
We are your neighbor, our economies are intertwined.
Are population is substantially less than yours so what happens in the US has a big impact on us.
It would be dumb to ignore what happens there.
I can also say having gone on business trips in the USA that I can VERY MUCH agree that you "could not give a rip" about us.
Viewing your news, you do not give a rip about the rest of the world unless your politicians or troops happen to be there.
Honestly, I am astounded of how little is mentioned about anything outside of the US.
Please explain how Trump is a threat to the Democratic Process.If he is voted in as our next President via the Democratic Process, the process is working as intended.
I hate to say I can laugh or cry over that "correct" statement.
The American people will get a leader "they deserve" one way or another.
He is accustomed to being the one in power.
You can be sure he would do what he can to ensure that and not let little rules bother him.
Obama is a much bigger threat when he takes directives without consulting the people voted in to represent The People. Especially when these directives are not in his jurisdiction in the first place. THAT's a huge threat to the Democratic Process. Other Presidents from both parties have done this in the past. Were they a threat, too? I guess they weren't if you agreed with them, right?
There are some moments of being "commander and chief" of USA policy, military and clandestine operations.
You see it all and have to make decisions.
Every last one of those Presidents are making decisions without the people's say so.
It is the decisions that affect your people's rights and freedoms that are the important ones.
Think about Obama and then Trump and how they would like to handle YOUR rights and freedoms.
There is a big difference.
Steve steveson wrote: I don't agree with the definition, but I'm afraid he is not making an appeal to authority, you are. An appeal to authority is when someone claims to be an expert, not when someone quotes a recognised expert. That's good debating. I agree that is the definition of a liberal democracy, but it is not an appeal to authority.
So how does one prove an argument if not an expert on that topic? You look to an authority on the topic.
I've actually never heard of this Logical Fallacy.
I really want to know. How to prove a point if not by pointing to an authority on that topic? Can we then not discuss anything unless we ourselves are experts on that topic?
You explain WHY whatever you're arguing about is the case. As it is now, you just referred to what a political scientist argued was Democracy without explaining the reasoning or point behind it and expecting it to stand just because a political scientist said it.
Steve steveson wrote: I don't agree with the definition, but I'm afraid he is not making an appeal to authority, you are. An appeal to authority is when someone claims to be an expert, not when someone quotes a recognised expert. That's good debating. I agree that is the definition of a liberal democracy, but it is not an appeal to authority.
So how does one prove an argument if not an expert on that topic? You look to an authority on the topic.
I've actually never heard of this Logical Fallacy.
I really want to know. How to prove a point if not by pointing to an authority on that topic? Can we then not discuss anything unless we ourselves are experts on that topic?
It's not that, it's saying, "This person/group agrees with me so I must be right!" Instead of actually presenting evidence.
Mdlbuildr wrote: Our Democratic leaders have been feeding us lies for 8 years now. Anytime they are opposed, they say that their opposition are "racist", bigots" or "xenophobes".
How about I will agree that if it suits a politician, any one of them would consider smearing their opponent with those labels.
The Republican campaigns seem to be the more enthusiastic of the parties in this regard.
Wouldn't any of those labels fit more easily with Trump than anyone else?
It is because of the methodology of the Republican party that made his rise possible: he throws dirt better than they do.
All this is covered rather eloquently in the link I had.
They have been violently opposed to any ideals that are not theirs, which is evident by the many times Trump supports try to gather. The argument is that "Trump incites violence", but it is not his followers being violent. The way to oppose your opponent is not to throw rocks and eggs at them. Forcibly remove their clothing and burn it, nor tear down tents and yell obscenities at armed guards.
None of the behaviors you outline is acceptable for either group.
The more correct term is that "Trump incites controversy".
He likes to live in that zone, it gives him the press he wants.
Plus since he is known for modifying/rewording/ or claiming we misunderstood him, he will just spin it a different way... it seems acceptable for him but impossible for others.
In this very thread, people have said they wouldn't "mind" if Trump were shot. Killed perhaps. Really? This is the mind of a reasonable opposition?
I would consider lazy speak for saying "they wish he would go away".
Truly wishing someone's death is a rather personal thing... "they do not understand what they are saying.".
When certain of our Democratic upper leadership are faced with facts, they are twisted by those who follow them and the media who support them wholeheartedly and blindly. One of which is actually going to be their Presidential nominee while under investigation by the FBI for treason.
Investigation is common in the political world.
It does not indicate guilt, just that systems are working.
Quoting specific allegations would be helpful to understand the point you are trying to make.
You are Canadian.
Why are your countrymen so keen on our Political process?
I can tell you categorically that very few in the USA cares a rip about Canadian politics.
The only they care about is how low your dollar goes so they can get a cheap vacation.
I heard it quoted often "When the US gets a cold, Canada gets the flu."
We are your neighbor, our economies are intertwined.
Are population is substantially less than yours so what happens in the US has a big impact on us.
It would be dumb to ignore what happens there.
I can also say having gone on business trips in the USA that I can VERY MUCH agree that you "could not give a rip" about us.
Viewing your news, you do not give a rip about the rest of the world unless your politicians or troops happen to be there.
Honestly, I am astounded of how little is mentioned about anything outside of the US.
Please explain how Trump is a threat to the Democratic Process.If he is voted in as our next President via the Democratic Process, the process is working as intended.
I hate to say I can laugh or cry over that "correct" statement.
The American people will get a leader "they deserve" one way or another.
He is accustomed to being the one in power.
You can be sure he would do what he can to ensure that and not let little rules bother him.
Obama is a much bigger threat when he takes directives without consulting the people voted in to represent The People. Especially when these directives are not in his jurisdiction in the first place. THAT's a huge threat to the Democratic Process. Other Presidents from both parties have done this in the past. Were they a threat, too? I guess they weren't if you agreed with them, right?
There are some moments of being "commander and chief" of USA policy, military and clandestine operations.
You see it all and have to make decisions.
Every last one of those Presidents are making decisions without the people's say so.
It is the decisions that affect your people's rights and freedoms that are the important ones.
Think about Obama and then Trump and how they would like to handle YOUR rights and freedoms.
There is a big difference.
Interesting as always.
You bring up many interesting points for sure.
I disagree with some of them, but be that as it may, I can't really argue with what you said.
I can say that yes, the Commander in Chief is charged with making decision. There is a process however that can't be ignored. When it is, there is a problem. Obama is a big problem in this regard.
I can also say that Trump is much more in line with my person views when compared to Mrs. Clinton. Nothing about her is appealing to me. I can't say exactly what I think about her for fear of a perma ban, LOL.
Steve steveson wrote: I don't agree with the definition, but I'm afraid he is not making an appeal to authority, you are. An appeal to authority is when someone claims to be an expert, not when someone quotes a recognised expert. That's good debating. I agree that is the definition of a liberal democracy, but it is not an appeal to authority.
So how does one prove an argument if not an expert on that topic? You look to an authority on the topic.
I've actually never heard of this Logical Fallacy.
I really want to know. How to prove a point if not by pointing to an authority on that topic? Can we then not discuss anything unless we ourselves are experts on that topic?
It's not that, it's saying, "This person/group agrees with me so I must be right!" Instead of actually presenting evidence.
Oh, I get it now. However, when a published expert is saying something, agreeing with that person doesn't necessarily mean your argument is a Logical Fallacy. If that is the case we can argue this Fallacy all the time!
Bit of a mixed things where there is a run on citizenship due to Trump:
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/05/02/fears-of-trump-drive-immigrants-to-become-citizens_n_9819198.html The more optimistic or cynical could say "It is about time they commit to this country" (sheesh!).
How about they desperately want to vote... I wonder for whom?
I wonder if this is going to be the most voted on election in American history?
Any bets on a Clinton majority?
I seem to remember some sour grapes in our own country for the Quebec referendum and the separatists blamed it on the "immigrant vote".
I think this is a much more positive step than trying to shoot him.
It will bring everyone together for a real nail biter of an election.
IF Trump becomes president, can I watch when he meets Poutin?
That would be epic.
It was so funny seeing the guy try to puff himself up against how tall Obama was.
Poutin would be happy for a moment and then probably start making fun of him straight off.
IF Trump becomes president, can I watch when he meets Poutin?
That would be epic.
It was so funny seeing the guy try to puff himself up against how tall Obama was.
Poutin would be happy for a moment and then probably start making fun of him straight off.
If Drumpf gets in Putin is going to absolutely destroy him. "The Art of the Deal", borne on the back of Daddy's millions, vs Russian realpolitik, forged in the KGB and Oligarch blood.
So yes logical fallacies are quite common in a lot places and in arguments present in most political discussions and theories presented by politicians.
You could possibly deconstruct Drumpfs entire argument with finding the logical fallacies.
And then point out a lot of problems associated with them.
IE the building the wall or the all Muslims are evil hate speech he has said. (Which fall under generalizing fallacy or a texas sharpshooter, instead they represent a small factoid or percentage.)
Epic stuff. Two Canadians discussing American politics. I love it!
Means they are informed on national and world issues.
Our Democratic leaders have been feeding us lies for 8 years now. Anytime they are opposed, they say that their opposition are "racist", bigots" or "xenophobes".
Source for this? Other than your own exclamations and remarks made off of no basis of fact?
