angelofvengeance wrote: So this was posted on the AoS thread, the former seems 40k related. This will come after the Sylvaneth release supposedly.
It deserves its own thread. Rumored by Hastings in Feb 2015, the Betrayal at Calth miniatures will be rereleased as individual kits - similiar to the Assassins from Execution Force. 40k rules can already be found in the Angels of Death supplement.
WD leaks shouldn't be that far away for a confirmation.
Haven't seen this posted anywhere so I thought I'd share. Plastic Heresy marines are up for pre order on July the 9th. These are the sprues from BaC repackaged in individual boxes as was rumoured some time ago.
July 9 Preorders will be available a day before the upcoming Forgeworld Open Day which is held on July 17
The event miniature
Old news but most likely not a coincidence given its armour type
Monday 06 June 2016
EXCLUSIVELY DAEMONIC
If you were at Warhammer fest you may have picked up the latest event exclusive Forge World model. With the Forge World Open day coming up, the Forge World studio team decided that one exclusive model isn’t enough, so there’s another one coming! Check it out…
A Space Marine Librarian summoning a daemon? Sounds heretical to me, but it’s a fantastic looking model. Here’s a look at it unpainted, and you can see that there is plenty of fantastic detail in this model.
You’ll be able to get one first at the Forge World Open Day, and then at every event we attend this year. If you have a ticket for the Forge World Open Day, you have until Monday 11th July to place an order for collection at the event with free shipping. Just make sure you’ve selected the UK as your shipping destination and choose the Forge World Open Day from the list of events.
Price is going to be tricky, given that the box is such good value and the constituent parts can be picked up for a good price aftermarket, making it worth buying them for the price charged is going to be a fine line.
General Kroll wrote: Plus they are going to compete with regular tactical and terminator squads. Price them wrong and they will cut into those sales too.
I’d be shocked if they were priced at anything different then the 40k equivalents.
The only way I could see them being less if is they bundled them together. There is the 5 terminator + HQ box for $60, as an example of something they might do. Lot easier to stomach that then a $50 box of terminators and a $30 clampack.
My guess is BaC is going to go out of print if it isnt already.
Then they will price these new box sets right in line with current sets. So Im expecting price points of $45+ per box as per normal GW crazy pricing.
As once BaC drops off the new prices will quickly become the new normal as the good value box sets dry up which they already kinda are on the second hand market.
Ive already noticed second hand cataphracti have jumped in value via ebay an such since they published 40k rules and as now all the 40k players are snapping them up or keeping them.
Looking forward to seeing what the next box set has to offer for 30k players.....as I havent played a game of 40k in almost a year and have only been playing 30k....in fact probably going to work on selling off the rest of my 40k armies that cant be converted to 30k use in the future when i get a chance lol.
General Kroll wrote: Plus they are going to compete with regular tactical and terminator squads. Price them wrong and they will cut into those sales too.
Meaning the safest, and most likely outcome is GW erring on the side of a higher price. That way it doesn't hurt Tactical/Termies, still makes BaC a desirable box... while its left... and also lets higher end, less cost-conscious buyers outright buy their kits.
I dont think it is likely, at least not this early, but a Start Collecting box with the BaC miniatures would sell well I guess. A 10 men Tac Squad, 5-men Terminator squad and either Dreadnought and/or character models would make for a similar set to the Blood Angels one.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Edit: Ninjaed by Nevelon
It's a nice idea, but the characters share a sprue.
Forgot about that. Well, at least that means we are unlikely to see GW flogging them as individual $30 clampacks. I could se the pair of them being boxed and sold for $40 though.
Kinda puts a big dampener on the start collecting idea. All? of those are troop+HQ+other.
They could just recut the sprue to be just the Praetor and make a universal "Start collecting: Horus Heresy" box.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
chaos45 wrote: My guess is BaC is going to go out of print if it isnt already.
Then they will price these new box sets right in line with current sets. So Im expecting price points of $45+ per box as per normal GW crazy pricing.
As once BaC drops off the new prices will quickly become the new normal as the good value box sets dry up which they already kinda are on the second hand market.
Ive already noticed second hand cataphracti have jumped in value via ebay an such since they published 40k rules and as now all the 40k players are snapping them up or keeping them.
Looking forward to seeing what the next box set has to offer for 30k players.....as I havent played a game of 40k in almost a year and have only been playing 30k....in fact probably going to work on selling off the rest of my 40k armies that cant be converted to 30k use in the future when i get a chance lol.
Well, they are still selling execution force long after the assassins became clam-packs.
TheCustomLime wrote: They could just recut the sprue to be just the Praetor and make a universal "Start collecting: Horus Heresy" box.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
chaos45 wrote: My guess is BaC is going to go out of print if it isnt already.
Then they will price these new box sets right in line with current sets. So Im expecting price points of $45+ per box as per normal GW crazy pricing.
As once BaC drops off the new prices will quickly become the new normal as the good value box sets dry up which they already kinda are on the second hand market.
Ive already noticed second hand cataphracti have jumped in value via ebay an such since they published 40k rules and as now all the 40k players are snapping them up or keeping them.
Looking forward to seeing what the next box set has to offer for 30k players.....as I havent played a game of 40k in almost a year and have only been playing 30k....in fact probably going to work on selling off the rest of my 40k armies that cant be converted to 30k use in the future when i get a chance lol.
Well, they are still selling execution force long after the assassins became clam-packs.
Yeah how hard is it to recut the sprues? I'd imagine a lot of the cost would have been in the R&D. As I recall the sprue is both characters, so in theory you could have a start collecting set with both characters if push came to shove?
I don't see why it couldn't happen, it would certainly be a nice in for people to get into the FW lines.
Heresy and Betrayal.....whatever happened to the storyline where the Dark Angels went to wipe out Fenris? Rumors have the End Times coming....maybe that's what's going to start it.
Heresy and Betrayal.....whatever happened to the storyline where the Dark Angels went to wipe out Fenris? Rumors have the End Times coming....maybe that's what's going to start it.
Yeah, I was kinda thinking it could be related to this as well. A HH related release makes more sense though.
Haven't seen this posted anywhere so I thought I'd share. Plastic Heresy marines are up for pre order on July the 9th. These are the sprues from BaC repackaged in individual boxes as was rumoured some time ago.
No info yet, I guess they will offer BaC until it sells out. The prices are high but that will keep the kits more in line with FW prices. Maybe there is a surprise with the Contemptor kit, 46 EUR seems unreal.
Haven't seen this posted anywhere so I thought I'd share. Plastic Heresy marines are up for pre order on July the 9th. These are the sprues from BaC repackaged in individual boxes as was rumoured some time ago.
Looking at USD box equivalents for pricing it looks like these are going to be some expensive kits in USD. Like $50-65. Hopefully they aren't that high.
Those are some high prices compared to the "modern" 40k versions. The Heroes set is not to bad, but if that's the same underwhelming Contemptor as in the BaC box? No way I'd pay that price for it.
djones520 wrote: I'm curious if they'll include more weapon options in the Dread kit or not.
Their history with these kinds of sets (barring the Assassins) is to add additional stuff for the "static one pose" items, but the Contemptor datasheet only has the weapons listed...so I don't know what to think.
I think at the least the Contemptor might be more posable.
What's the current layout for the SM sprues? Like how few can they break the tacticals into for BaC? I ask because if that's 20 tacticals for that price it's solid. If they can break them down to 10 it gets worse.
Hulksmash wrote: What's the current layout for the SM sprues? Like how few can they break the tacticals into for BaC? I ask because if that's 20 tacticals for that price it's solid. If they can break them down to 10 it gets worse.
They can very easily break down into 10. It's 3 sprues for 10 guys with all their bells and whistles. I'd be surprised if they ever cost less than the standard Tactical Squad kit.
Prices make sense, just make sure that you order them in pounds, you'll manage to save a bit of money before GW will use it as an excuse to up their prices again!
The contemptor will have to be multi-pose before I would even consider buying one. I'd rather pay slightly more (lol pounds) for a FW contemptor than have to cut and rebuild another BaC contemptor. If they are multi-pose then I will be their huckleberry.
The tacticals will also need to offer something new to BaC. Maybe new heavy weapons or additional armor types.
BrotherGecko wrote: The contemptor will have to be multi-pose before I would even consider buying one. I'd rather pay slightly more (lol pounds) for a FW contemptor than have to cut and rebuild another BaC contemptor. If they are multi-pose then I will be their huckleberry.
The tacticals will also need to offer something new to BaC. Maybe new heavy weapons or additional armor types.
The Tacticals are loaded with detail and bits - I don't know how they could fit another weapon on the sprue at this point. I think they're a solid kit and will be on their own. Totally agree about the Contemptor though, the plastic one is way too limited, especially for that price.
Looks like I will need to pick up a box or two of Betrayal at Calth to make some Heresy Era Imperial Fists. I still want to wait to see if they make Mk III.
BrotherGecko wrote: The contemptor will have to be multi-pose before I would even consider buying one. I'd rather pay slightly more (lol pounds) for a FW contemptor than have to cut and rebuild another BaC contemptor. If they are multi-pose then I will be their huckleberry.
The tacticals will also need to offer something new to BaC. Maybe new heavy weapons or additional armor types.
The Tacticals are loaded with detail and bits - I don't know how they could fit another weapon on the sprue at this point. I think they're a solid kit and will be on their own. Totally agree about the Contemptor though, the plastic one is way too limited, especially for that price.
Well I'm mostly looking at it from the angle of someone who has 30 mkiv from BaC so the tacticals as a stand alone really has nothing to offer. Especially because its cheaper to just pick up BaC for a second time then buy equivalent in individual.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Looks like I will need to pick up a box or two of Betrayal at Calth to make some Heresy Era Imperial Fists. I still want to wait to see if they make Mk III.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Looks like I will need to pick up a box or two of Betrayal at Calth to make some Heresy Era Imperial Fists. I still want to wait to see if they make Mk III.
MkIII would make me very happy
I know, if they came out it would make my day. I would love to start Imperial Fists using them. I am still thinking Mk IV would be good too.
Chef_of_Cadia wrote: Prices are a let down considering they were like $20-$30 for a squad on Ebay. Good to know I can have more MkIVs if I want them though.
Whilst BaC boxes are still available.
My local GW still has a pile. I'm wondering if it's worth buying them up to split now.
It must be; it was always rumoured to be a 1-shot thing, and there would be no individual kit sales if you can buy the whole box for the cost of 2 and a bit squads.
Wow, at first I was shocked at those prices since I was going by the pre-Brexit exchange rates. But nowadays those prices more or less convert to the USD prices of their equivalent 40k kit.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Looks like I will need to pick up a box or two of Betrayal at Calth to make some Heresy Era Imperial Fists. I still want to wait to see if they make Mk III.
MkIII would make me very happy
I know, if they came out it would make my day. I would love to start Imperial Fists using them. I am still thinking Mk IV would be good too.
GW's been really risk averse with BaC. The word was they chose MkIV because they so easily blend with 40k marines and could be easily re-purposed to that end, with parts that easily mix and match with 40k marines without looking out of place. I think Mk II and Mk III marines are exactly what GW was trying to avoid. I think if GW does another set of Heresy Era plastics, I think they will similarly choose Mk V armor for the same reason.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Looks like I will need to pick up a box or two of Betrayal at Calth to make some Heresy Era Imperial Fists. I still want to wait to see if they make Mk III.
MkIII would make me very happy
I know, if they came out it would make my day. I would love to start Imperial Fists using them. I am still thinking Mk IV would be good too.
GW's been really risk averse with BaC. The word was they chose MkIV because they so easily blend with 40k marines and could be easily re-purposed to that end, with parts that easily mix and match with 40k marines without looking out of place. I think Mk II and Mk III marines are exactly what GW was trying to avoid. I think if GW does another set of Heresy Era plastics, I think they will similarly choose Mk V armor for the same reason.
That would make a lot of sense really, as would Mk VI. Perhaps we would see a MKII and III kit as a combined thing eventually?
AegisGrimm wrote: Hrm, time to finally grab some 30 dollar terminators off of ebay, sounds like.
I recently grabbed another 5 for about that. Have to say I'm pretty happy about that decision now. Even if this stand alone box happens to come with more stuff I could always get it too, otherwise the 10 I own is more than enough.
Interesting to see of the individual contemptor and cataphractii will come with datasheets in the box and if they do, will GW recognize that DA and BA should also have access to them the whole time.
Yeah, need some for my Standard Space Wolves-as-13th Company project. I figure as they are from just after the Heresy, they would have a better chance of some Cataphractii armor suits.
I thought the post heresy SW considered the Contemptor cursed? Or has that fluff excuse been retconed?
Edit- My bad, reading fail nothing to see here move along
It's probably going to work out cheaper for Australians/New Zealanders to buy Mk IV off forgeworld rather than these plastic kits from GW, given the usual Oceania markup and the fact that the pound has really tanked after Brexit (and could well fall further).
casvalremdeikun wrote: Looks like I will need to pick up a box or two of Betrayal at Calth to make some Heresy Era Imperial Fists. I still want to wait to see if they make Mk III.
MkIII would make me very happy
I know, if they came out it would make my day. I would love to start Imperial Fists using them. I am still thinking Mk IV would be good too.
GW's been really risk averse with BaC. The word was they chose MkIV because they so easily blend with 40k marines and could be easily re-purposed to that end, with parts that easily mix and match with 40k marines without looking out of place. I think Mk II and Mk III marines are exactly what GW was trying to avoid. I think if GW does another set of Heresy Era plastics, I think they will similarly choose Mk V armor for the same reason.
Yeah typical GW. Risk averse on risk free project that will sell like hot cakes anyway and take huge gambles elsewhere
aracersss wrote: that's the most expensive plastic dread to date!
I wonder if the rules inside will just be reprints of the rules from Angels of Death. I wouldn't mind seeing them become available for non-C:SM chapters. My brother just picked up BaC for his Dark Angels, I know he would definitely like to use the Cataphractii.
The Contemptor was a big disappointment for me. I'll be sticking to the FW versions unless it comes with a load more weapon options than the BaC version(unlikely) that can be used with the resin body.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Looks like I will need to pick up a box or two of Betrayal at Calth to make some Heresy Era Imperial Fists. I still want to wait to see if they make Mk III.
MkIII would make me very happy
I know, if they came out it would make my day. I would love to start Imperial Fists using them. I am still thinking Mk IV would be good too.
GW's been really risk averse with BaC. The word was they chose MkIV because they so easily blend with 40k marines and could be easily re-purposed to that end, with parts that easily mix and match with 40k marines without looking out of place. I think Mk II and Mk III marines are exactly what GW was trying to avoid. I think if GW does another set of Heresy Era plastics, I think they will similarly choose Mk V armor for the same reason.
Yeah typical GW. Risk averse on risk free project that will sell like hot cakes anyway and take huge gambles elsewhere
We know it was a risk free endeavor but what this risk aversion tells us is that the people who were making decisions at the time were those pretty removed from the player base. Even though these are a byproduct of the efforts of GW's current CEO the lead time of it dates it back to while GW was under its previous CEO. Their previous CEO really didn't understand the gaming aspect of the hobby and saw the hobby as a collectables market. There were at the time two camps in the management level of GW and the one with a better understanding of things won out. That makes the likelihood of more heresy era plastics better and a commitment to that end is clear by means of the return of Specialist Games with FW now under that umbrella. If we get more Heresy era plastic will boil down to the overall market strategy the new CEO has brought. While BAC has opened up the HH to a larger number of players how far can that go? FW can offer a far greater variety and number of specialized products than GW could and GW stepping can end up diluting that and diminishing aspects of the long term marketability.
Good luck selling that mono-pose garbage fire for $60 GW.
They are asking almost the same amount for FW's contemptor ($7 less...lol pounds) but zero of the quality.
......I guess FW contemptors now look like they are worth it..?
....lol pounds
I guess they want more people to buy BaC. Not sure shipping a bunch of vastly over priced product to get people to buy the same product but only moderately over priced and in a package is a winning economic strategy.
Man, at those prices, I would be better off getting the FW Mk III stuff rather pay an arm and a leg for Mk IV stuff. I don't know. I could probably get by with Mk IV. I don't want a piecemeal army, though. I want those suckers to all be in one armor mark.
Crazyterran wrote: The mk4 tacticals are $10 more expensive than the normal tactical box.
I'd be better off buying a fourth BAC, costs as much as three Tactical squads...
And it gets you free Terminators, a Contemptor, and two characters. Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I just want to get a couple boxes of BaC to make my HH era Imperial Fists. Mk IV armor is still my favorite in appearance, even if it isn't exactly perfect for Imperial Fists. Especially since Phalanx Warders are in Mk IV armor, and my goal is to make the army all in one armor mark.
We should not forget that BaC was originally more expensive and they reduced the price between Warhammer Visions (about 3 months in advance) and WD Weekly print runs.
150 EUR -> 125 EUR makes quite a difference. That's why BaC is such a good offer - also compared to other multipart 40k kits like the Tactical Marines.
I think the high prices for individual kits help to shift BaC boxes. FW is getting undercut but with the current exchange rate they still make their sales.
Wow, they're flogging that lame monopose dreadnought for $60? The Ven dread is cheaper and comes with a gak ton more options! Hell, you can even use it in the Horus Heresy!
Warhams-77 wrote: We should not forget that BaC was originally more expensive and they reduced the price between Warhammer Visions (about 3 months in advance) and WD Weekly print runs.
Didn't they straight up come out and say that the more expensive price wasn't intended to see print? It was lowered before it was even released afaik.
But yeah, Venerarble Dreadnought and even the Mk V's are cheaper and perfectly usable in 30k as well.
Warhams-77 wrote: We should not forget that BaC was originally more expensive and they reduced the price between Warhammer Visions (about 3 months in advance) and WD Weekly print runs.
Didn't they straight up come out and say that the more expensive price wasn't intended to see print? It was lowered before it was even released afaik.
But yeah, Venerarble Dreadnought and even the Mk V's are cheaper and perfectly usable in 30k as well.
It was lowered before release. GW have said so but this was to counter rumors that the price of BaC would rise a month after release. I'm not pointing the finger but this was run as a headline on some of the 'less accurate rumor sites' when the Vision issue came out - which is always after the product gets released - and there was a story constructed around it.
Just when I thought GW was changing even a little, they get even stupider. 50 bucks for the two heroes? They can be had for 15 bucks on Ebay! Everything is literally double or more of the Ebay prices.
Just when I thought GW was changing even a little, they get even stupider. 50 bucks for the two heroes? They can be had for 15 bucks on Ebay! Everything is literally double or more of the Ebay prices.
Just when I thought GW was changing even a little, they get even stupider. 50 bucks for the two heroes? They can be had for 15 bucks on Ebay! Everything is literally double or more of the Ebay prices.
*cue in ebay price increases*
Buy your Betrayal at Calth Boxed Sets while you can, folks!
motski wrote: It's probably going to work out cheaper for Australians/New Zealanders to buy Mk IV off forgeworld rather than these plastic kits from GW, given the usual Oceania markup and the fact that the pound has really tanked after Brexit (and could well fall further).
Is it worth buying from UK at retail + shipping for the BaC boxes? I don't mind carrying a couple of boxes from GW -> Post Office for fellow Dakkanaughts.
In a world of $30 HQ clampacks, I can see the 2 for $50 price. And those are some nice looking guys. So at least those guys are priced like their peers.
Of course, $30 for a HQ is an unreasonable price, but that’s another argument.
Terminators are blurry, is that $55? Not to far off from the current kits.
The dread is crazy, and I don’t see why the tacs are that much more then the basic ones.
At least i can now buy 10 Cataphactii Terminators without buying BaC or using Ebay (i dont trust people)
Those Grave Wardens Stolen by the Alpha Legion Aren't going to make themselves!
commander dante wrote: At least i can now buy 10 Cataphactii Terminators without buying BaC or using Ebay (i dont trust people)
Those Grave Wardens Stolen by the Alpha Legion Aren't going to make themselves!
Nevelon wrote: In a world of $30 HQ clampacks, I can see the 2 for $50 price. And those are some nice looking guys. So at least those guys are priced like their peers.
Of course, $30 for a HQ is an unreasonable price, but that’s another argument.
Terminators are blurry, is that $55? Not to far off from the current kits.
The dread is crazy, and I don’t see why the tacs are that much more then the basic ones.
Hard to make out, but it looks like $65 to me. They're £5 more than the Contemptor, so $5 more makes sense. That brings the total to $325US for the equivalent model count for BaC! Makes BaC an even better deal, especially if you have a seller near you that has a discount on it!
Nevelon wrote: In a world of $30 HQ clampacks, I can see the 2 for $50 price. And those are some nice looking guys. So at least those guys are priced like their peers.
Of course, $30 for a HQ is an unreasonable price, but that’s another argument.
Terminators are blurry, is that $55? Not to far off from the current kits.
The dread is crazy, and I don’t see why the tacs are that much more then the basic ones.
Hard to make out, but it looks like $65 to me. They're £5 more than the Contemptor, so $5 more makes sense. That brings the total to $325US for the equivalent model count for BaC! Makes BaC an even better deal, especially if you have a seller near you that has a discount on it!
We all knew that BaC was a great deal. Getting things individually was going to be more. But they are not even in the same ballpark as the rest of the individual boxes.
I was honestly expecting the tacs to be roughly the same as the old tac box, probably a buck or two more. Same with the terminators.
commander dante wrote: At least i can now buy 10 Cataphactii Terminators without buying BaC or using Ebay (i dont trust people)
Those Grave Wardens Stolen by the Alpha Legion Aren't going to make themselves!
Do you dislike money?
I mean, the boxes probably are more expensive than they should be, but if he just wants 10 Terminators it's much more economical to buy the 10 man box than buy a whole new BaC box.
You can get a Contemptor from Forgeworld with the exact same weapon options for like 10 bucks more than that monopose goofball of a Dreadnought. I don't hate the plastic Contemptor but dear lord is $60 for it highway robbery. Guess this all makes Betrayal at Calth an even better deal, which is probably the point of it all.
commander dante wrote: At least i can now buy 10 Cataphactii Terminators without buying BaC or using Ebay (i dont trust people)
Those Grave Wardens Stolen by the Alpha Legion Aren't going to make themselves!
Do you dislike money?
I mean, the boxes probably are more expensive than they should be, but if he just wants 10 Terminators it's much more economical to buy the 10 man box than buy a whole new BaC box.
Well, I guess... Personally I'd buy the 2 Betrayal at Calth boxes and sell the rest off for a profit. Going by Canadian $$ I'd have to sell the remaining box contents off for $100 to break even. GW is selling the equivalent individual boxes for $310. I figure for brand new minis still on sprue I could get 65% of GW asking price. A quick $200 profit no sweat.
Keep in mind for that £40 you're only getting 5 Terminators.
commander dante wrote: At least i can now buy 10 Cataphactii Terminators without buying BaC or using Ebay (i dont trust people)
Those Grave Wardens Stolen by the Alpha Legion Aren't going to make themselves!
At $130 for 10, I don't think your plan is very economical. I suggest you buy a Calth box and make some trades at your LFGS.
And there goes any hope for GW to have learned from its past mistakes.
The company faces two issues that keep the turnover on a downward spiral - high prices and shoddy rules, and no amount of Facebook tomfoolery or nostalgia shots can change that.
$60 for the Contemptor is so absurd it might as well have come from a Dali painting.
The BaC Contemptor isn't horrible, but it's way more static and the join between the torso and hips is way too thin. Aside from that I'd be more tempted to get the plastic one if it ran in the same price bracket as the other plastic Dreads. For $15 Canadian more though, I'll pass. The FW one is a couple quid less although it admittedly doesn't come with arms.
commander dante wrote: At least i can now buy 10 Cataphactii Terminators without buying BaC or using Ebay (i dont trust people)
Those Grave Wardens Stolen by the Alpha Legion Aren't going to make themselves!
Do you dislike money?
I mean, the boxes probably are more expensive than they should be, but if he just wants 10 Terminators it's much more economical to buy the 10 man box than buy a whole new BaC box.
Is it a 10 man box, or 2x 5 man boxes? If the latter, you're nearly at the BaC price anyway.
For half the price for the same sprues I'd be really tempted by ebay; most of the sellers will be small businesses anyway.
bubber wrote: http://www.bitsandkits.co.uk/horus-heresybetrayal-at-calth-kits-c-980.html?sesid=5hfnu6apnidi7m3tup0v5vg2e5
Dread for £15, squads for £25. Sold out for the moment but sign up to his news letter to let you know when he's restocked.
I wouldn't recommend buying anything from Bits and Kits. They have NO customer service. I ordered from them once, and they screwed up my order. But they don't provide any way of contacting them that actually works, so I was just out of luck after being ripped off by them.
bubber wrote: http://www.bitsandkits.co.uk/horus-heresybetrayal-at-calth-kits-c-980.html?sesid=5hfnu6apnidi7m3tup0v5vg2e5
Dread for £15, squads for £25. Sold out for the moment but sign up to his news letter to let you know when he's restocked.
I wouldn't recommend buying anything from Bits and Kits. They have NO customer service. I ordered from them once, and they screwed up my order. But they don't provide any way of contacting them that actually works, so I was just out of luck after being ripped off by them.
Obviously Ymmv, but I've never had any problems contacting them about orders or issues, I think I've had maybe one issue with them in the past, and it was resolved almost immediately. Pretty much my only issue with B&K is that they don't always have the bits I want, but what bits seller does lol.
Automatically Appended Next Post: On another note, it's making me chuckle a little that everyone is slating the monopose dreadnought, and how terrible it is, basically saying how they would likely never buy it anyway.
Then complaining that it's too much money.
What do you care? It's a sculpt you aren't going to buy anyway?
It's like me, I have one, I actually only have it because it came with BaC, it's not a great model, but it looks ok once it's built and painted. I wouldn't buy one, I wouldn't pay what they are asking for it individually. But I don't really care what they want to charge for it. If I want the better version, I can get it from forgeworld for the price it always was.
Did people really expect GW to undercut their own prices and compete with their own models?
bubber wrote: http://www.bitsandkits.co.uk/horus-heresybetrayal-at-calth-kits-c-980.html?sesid=5hfnu6apnidi7m3tup0v5vg2e5
Dread for £15, squads for £25. Sold out for the moment but sign up to his news letter to let you know when he's restocked.
I wouldn't recommend buying anything from Bits and Kits. They have NO customer service. I ordered from them once, and they screwed up my order. But they don't provide any way of contacting them that actually works, so I was just out of luck after being ripped off by them.
Just FYI, some American Email Providers, like Comcast, filter all automated UK based Email like it's all plague ridden with spyware.
I have issues with Terragenesis and Foreworld emails all the time. I had to switch to using Gmail to contact them.
bubber wrote: http://www.bitsandkits.co.uk/horus-heresybetrayal-at-calth-kits-c-980.html?sesid=5hfnu6apnidi7m3tup0v5vg2e5
Dread for £15, squads for £25. Sold out for the moment but sign up to his news letter to let you know when he's restocked.
I wouldn't recommend buying anything from Bits and Kits. They have NO customer service. I ordered from them once, and they screwed up my order. But they don't provide any way of contacting them that actually works, so I was just out of luck after being ripped off by them.
I order from them almost once a month for the last two years without ever having a mistake. You have to have terrible luck my friend.
I still can not believe they are trying to pass that contemptor off for $60. They those things are going to be hella good dust collectors, another one of those kits in GW stores that have sun faded boxes.
Ha, I know it is pure repetition at this point, but the price for the contemptor and terminators!! $60 and $65 is utterly bizarre. We knew HH was supposed to be their premium brand, but that is quite wild!
Be interesting to see how the second hand market adjusts.
I laughed but you know that isn't even fair. That dreadnought was actually one of the best kits back in it's day, I mean none of the metal dreads aged well but at least he matched the aesthetic of the day. the plastic contemptor is just a garbage version of the already countless contemptor models.
Brother SRM wrote: You can get a Contemptor from Forgeworld with the exact same weapon options for like 10 bucks more than that monopose goofball of a Dreadnought. I don't hate the plastic Contemptor but dear lord is $60 for it highway robbery. Guess this all makes Betrayal at Calth an even better deal, which is probably the point of it all.
Forge world ones including shipping cost a few bucks less in nz. >.>
I think you might have to email them for it, but Doc's Game Store was asking $117 for the Calth box the last time I asked. I doubt you could get Calth from the UK cheaper than that.
Wow, Aussie mark up is strong in this one. lets break it down. Buying BaC complete box (30 mkiv, 2 characters, 5 termies, 1 dread) AU$265.
To buy these boxes individually to makeup the same amount of models you get in the BaC box equals AU$555!! We can buy 2x BaC boxes for double the models for AU$530.
Also love that 10 MKIV marines are AU$85 and the two character models together are also AU$85, must be a lot of plastic in those two guys.....
I laughed but you know that isn't even fair. That dreadnought was actually one of the best kits back in it's day, I mean none of the metal dreads aged well but at least he matched the aesthetic of the day. the plastic contemptor is just a garbage version of the already countless contemptor models.
No, it really wasn't a good kit, even back in the day. Everyone in my local area hated them, anyway. We tended to convert our own from Loyalist Dreads and the odd bit from the Chaos one (via UK bitz mail order).
I laughed but you know that isn't even fair. That dreadnought was actually one of the best kits back in it's day, I mean none of the metal dreads aged well but at least he matched the aesthetic of the day. the plastic contemptor is just a garbage version of the already countless contemptor models.
No, it really wasn't a good kit, even back in the day. Everyone in my local area hated them, anyway. We tended to convert our own from Loyalist Dreads and the odd bit from the Chaos one (via UK bitz mail order).
I remember thinking they looked cool at the time. But unlike other models from back then, they haven't stood the test of time. It looks really bad now, especially compared to the classic loyalist one.
bloodzy wrote: Wow, Aussie mark up is strong in this one. lets break it down. Buying BaC complete box (30 mkiv, 2 characters, 5 termies, 1 dread) AU$265.
To buy these boxes individually to makeup the same amount of models you get in the BaC box equals AU$555!! We can buy 2x BaC boxes for double the models for AU$530.
Also love that 10 MKIV marines are AU$85 and the two character models together are also AU$85, must be a lot of plastic in those two guys.....
What's aussie markup got to do with it? It's double the price in GBP too.
BaC - £95
3x mk iv squads £90
Characters set £30
Terminators £35
Dreadnought £35
I laughed but you know that isn't even fair. That dreadnought was actually one of the best kits back in it's day, I mean none of the metal dreads aged well but at least he matched the aesthetic of the day. the plastic contemptor is just a garbage version of the already countless contemptor models.
No, it really wasn't a good kit, even back in the day. Everyone in my local area hated them, anyway. We tended to convert our own from Loyalist Dreads and the odd bit from the Chaos one (via UK bitz mail order).
I remember thinking they looked cool at the time. But unlike other models from back then, they haven't stood the test of time. It looks really bad now, especially compared to the classic loyalist one.
You take that back.
They do make rather nice Mk III's for 30k stuff though.
And I prefer mine to the gakky Helbrute simply because its aesthetic better suits my CSM than some fleshblob aesthetic I didn't even want.
I think this could work out well if the rumours are true about another big game box is coming before Christmas, otherwise I fear it will anger people who have memories of Calth when they want to expand.
I can understand 40 or even 50 but 70's a little too rich even for this hobby.
I really hope they don't discontinue Betrayal, cuz these prices will destroy what good will that set built up.
I know, that is just way to much. But it's a want, not a need. So I really don't need it, and the price makes me not want it. I would even say $50 Canadian is too much. (I am Canadian, flag not showing it) add in what 15% tax it comes to almost $60 but being $70 that is almost $80 bucks, can get a Riptide or even the great Get Started bundles that are out there.
All I can see is it's for that one or few people who don't want to spend $180 for the box to just get another minis. But still $80 for an ugly non possible mini is just insane.
I was hoping for something a bit more than individual releases, jacked up in price. Like plastic Assault Marines, or Outriders. Stuff that every Legion has access to. Specific legion stuff (e.g. Red Butchers) would probably be FW only.
Lord Fishface wrote: So has there been any reliable intelligence on whether Betrayal at Calth will be withdrawn from sale, and what (if anything) will replace it?
Not that I'm aware of. Forge World still have the Task Forces for sale that include BaC, GW direct still have BaC, third parties still have BaC, the GW mailshot today advertised BaC - it doesn't really look like it's going anywhere.
Why do I get the idea that these separate boxes only exist to show how good of a deal BaC is?
Do we have any word on what rules were included in the White Dwarf? Is it just literal reprints of the rules from Angels of Death? Anything useful for BA, DA, or SW?
casvalremdeikun wrote: Why do I get the idea that these separate boxes only exist to show how good of a deal BaC is?
I thought that too but the money spent on shipping these individual boxes out to stores would be far greater than money made in the slight slight increase in BaC sales. If that is their strategy then GW has already returned to their brain damaged market strategies.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Why do I get the idea that these separate boxes only exist to show how good of a deal BaC is?
I thought that too but the money spent on shipping these individual boxes out to stores would be far greater than money made in the slight slight increase in BaC sales. If that is their strategy then GW has already returned to their brain damaged market strategies.
They will probably still get a sucker or two to buy them.
Between these and the minimal-savings flyer game, I am afraid we are going to start seeing Start Collecting boxes that are a Clampack and a Basic Troops for $5 savings.
These boxes could be more for people who just want, say, the Terminators. If I want to build a unit of Fulmentarii, it would be cheaper to drop 140 on two boxes of Terminstors than 360 for two BACs.
Sure, if I'm going to use everything out of BAC it's not a good idea to buy them separately. But, if you are a schmuck like me who owns 4 BACs, you don't really need more power armour.
Crazyterran wrote: These boxes could be more for people who just want, say, the Terminators. If I want to build a unit of Fulmentarii, it would be cheaper to drop 140 on two boxes of Terminstors than 360 for two BACs.
Sure, if I'm going to use everything out of BAC it's not a good idea to buy them separately. But, if you are a schmuck like me who owns 4 BACs, you don't really need more power armour.
I plan on getting two boxes of BaC to make my HH Era Imperial Fists. I wish they had done Tartaros instead of Cataphractii for BaC though, since they are similar technologies.
Crazyterran wrote: These boxes could be more for people who just want, say, the Terminators. If I want to build a unit of Fulmentarii, it would be cheaper to drop 140 on two boxes of Terminstors than 360 for two BACs.
Sure, if I'm going to use everything out of BAC it's not a good idea to buy them separately. But, if you are a schmuck like me who owns 4 BACs, you don't really need more power armour.
Yeah I'm in this camp. I bought two BACs and a few extra sets of mk iv guys from ebay. I don't need any more and I don't need another horrible dreadnought or kurtha sedd but I could go for some o' them terminators. The MK IV standalones are a nice-to-have for marine players because they're compatible with the regular models, so it's more kitbash opportunities. Likewise, I'm sure there are people who would want the dreadnought...
bloodzy wrote: Wow, Aussie mark up is strong in this one. lets break it down. Buying BaC complete box (30 mkiv, 2 characters, 5 termies, 1 dread) AU$265.
To buy these boxes individually to makeup the same amount of models you get in the BaC box equals AU$555!! We can buy 2x BaC boxes for double the models for AU$530.
Also love that 10 MKIV marines are AU$85 and the two character models together are also AU$85, must be a lot of plastic in those two guys.....
What's aussie markup got to do with it? It's double the price in GBP too.
BaC - £95
3x mk iv squads £90
Characters set £30
Terminators £35
Dreadnought £35
Total £190
The difference is tiny
Fun fact: as of 5 minutes ago, 95 GBP is ~165 AUD. That's one hell of an australian tax. Or to put it another way, would you pay 155 GBP for BaC?
I know it's not what you were referencing, just pointing out how insane the mark-up is on some stuff. As someone else pointed out, it's cheaper to buy a FW contempor than it is to buy the BaC dread, and that's just silly.
Two steps forward one step back? I mean if we complain about price, then we are not GW customer base, so then why go through all the hassles of making 40K/AoS affordable and making product cheaper without cutting prices. At least when releasing new product you can make them cheaper. So GW hasn't really changed much at all then.
Is this all just an illusion of change on GW part? Here I was having so much hope GW was changing for the better, but now I see it's same old same old when it comes to individual releases. So it's just basically back to normal now? Wow that didn't last long eh?
This is not an all or nothing situation, the sky isn't falling because one release is expensive. They are experimenting with pricing like they said in their financial report, some releases have been cheaper and some more expensive. I've seen so many posts of "wow GW never changed huh?" despite copious amounts of evidence to the contrary. One misstep cancels out all the good ones apparently.
It's probably counterproductive by GW to sell the individual kits from BaC with roughly a 100% priceup.
This ensues that anyone who wants at least two (or even just one) of the unit's in the BaC box will get a hugely better deal by buying a BaC box and selling off whatever they don't want.
At first glance one might think this is a good thing for GW. Instead of buying a box of terminators and one contemptor, i'm spending 50% more money to get a BaC box. That ignores the opportunity cost of everyone else however. How many of the MKIV marine boxed will be sold for what GW is asking when there'll be swarms of them on eBay for less than half the price from everyone who bought BaC boxes for extra terminators/contemptors?
Seems stupid and shortsighted to me.
I'm not complaining though. This ensures there'll be a steady supply of cheap plastic heresy kits availible online, as long as GW keeps selling the BaC box.
This seems somewhat logical if they plan on keeping BaC. They probably figured most people are either going to buy BaC for the HH armies or get the squads on ebay for cheap. So, they jacked up the prices because they figured they wouldn't actually sell that many of the individual kits in the long run.
Two steps forward one step back? I mean if we complain about price, then we are not GW customer base, so then why go through all the hassles of making 40K/AoS affordable and making product cheaper without cutting prices. At least when releasing new product you can make them cheaper. So GW hasn't really changed much at all then.
Is this all just an illusion of change on GW part? Here I was having so much hope GW was changing for the better, but now I see it's same old same old when it comes to individual releases. So it's just basically back to normal now? Wow that didn't last long eh?
Little much to say the worlds ending eh?
In respect to everything AoS related, not only have prices been good but so have all the recent releases. Personally it makes a lot of sense.
Trying to get people into AoS, so you make great stuff. Your cash cow is 40k, so why not have higher prices? They know people will pay it. Or they will sell tooooons more BaC, still making lots of money
str00dles1 wrote: Trying to get people into AoS, so you make great stuff. Your cash cow is 40k, so why not have higher prices? They know people will pay it. Or they will sell tooooons more BaC, still making lots of money
Yes, well... until they won't. Everyone has a "ceiling price" for this kind of stuff. I'd say GW needs to know what's the ceiling price for the most people to maximize sales and profits.
Anyone who thinks people who are parting out BaC are going to keep prices low now there's a much higher baseline for what they're worth is, I suspect, likely in for a shock.
which will just mean people won't buy from them either,
and will either do without or buy BaC themselves and possibly try to sell the bits they don't want so instead of professional bit sellers you;ll have more choice of amature ones
TheCustomLime wrote: This seems somewhat logical if they plan on keeping BaC. They probably figured most people are either going to buy BaC for the HH armies or get the squads on ebay for cheap. So, they jacked up the prices because they figured they wouldn't actually sell that many of the individual kits in the long run.
But that's the thing. If they had priced the individual kits for a bit more then half of what they do now, then people who's only after a specific kit or two might have bought them instead of going through the hassle of breaking up a BaC box. As it is now, no one in their right mind will buy a single of those kits when they can get almost half a BaC box for the price of one kit or get them online for almost half the price. This ensure the online market will keep being flooded with BaC components.
Instead of customer A buying a box of Terminator and a Contemptor for £25 each, he'll get a BaC box for £95 and sell the rest online to customer B. As long as he gets £45 for the rest of the stuff, he's broken even meaning he can sell the marines for as low as £10 a squad and the characters 2 for £5. Anything above that is pure savings on the £25 kits.
Now, the Cataphracts and Contemptor isn't even £25 but £35 and £40 respectively; making splitting a box even more of a no-brainer.
Now you can get a BaC box, keep the Terminators and Dreadnought, sell the marine boxes and characters for a friggin' £5'er each and still get the game for free. It's just ludicrous. How do you expect to sell boxes of MKIV marines for £30, when people will regularly be able to sell them new on sprue for £10 and still make a profit?
If they accept that they'll barely sell any individual kits at this price, why bother offering them in the first place?
Azreal13 wrote: Anyone who thinks people who are parting out BaC are going to keep prices low now there's a much higher baseline for what they're worth is, I suspect, likely in for a shock.
Sure, anyone can attempt to raise their prices as much as they like, but this is an actual free market situation. If e-bay seller 1 suddenly raise his prices by 100% just because GW started selling the individual kits separately, but e-bay seller 2 keeps his prices as they are now, I think I know who'll get the business.
Also, it's not just stores selling this stuff. There's a lot of individuals selling their unwanted BaC kits online.
TheCustomLime wrote: This seems somewhat logical if they plan on keeping BaC. They probably figured most people are either going to buy BaC for the HH armies or get the squads on ebay for cheap. So, they jacked up the prices because they figured they wouldn't actually sell that many of the individual kits in the long run.
But that's the thing. If they had priced the individual kits for a bit more then half of what they do now, then people who's only after a specific kit or two might have bought them instead of going through the hassle of breaking up a BaC box. As it is now, no one in their right mind will buy a single of those kits when they can get almost half a BaC box for the price of one kit or get them online for almost half the price. This ensure the online market will keep being flooded with BaC components.
Instead of customer A buying a box of Terminator and a Contemptor for £25 each, he'll get a BaC box for £95 and sell the rest online to customer B. As long as he gets £45 for the rest of the stuff, he's broken even meaning he can sell the marines for as low as £10 a squad and the characters 2 for £5. Anything above that is pure savings on the £25 kits.
Now, the Cataphracts and Contemptor isn't even £25 but £35 and £40 respectively; making splitting a box even more of a no-brainer.
Now you can get a BaC box, keep the Terminators and Dreadnought, sell the marine boxes and characters for a friggin' £5'er each and still get the game for free. It's just ludicrous. How do you expect to sell boxes of MKIV marines for £30, when people will regularly be able to sell them new on sprue for £10 and still make a profit?
If they accept that they'll barely sell any individual kits at this price, why bother offering them in the first place?
To A) Boost the value of their BaC kits, B) Make sales to those customers who would rather spend $130 on 10 termies than $140 on 5 termies+bunch of stuff they don't want and C) Attract sales from people who have $60, have never heard of ebay and want Mk IV tacs now.
Mymearan wrote:This is not an all or nothing situation, the sky isn't falling because one release is expensive. They are experimenting with pricing like they said in their financial report, some releases have been cheaper and some more expensive. I've seen so many posts of "wow GW never changed huh?" despite copious amounts of evidence to the contrary. One misstep cancels out all the good ones apparently.
Never said the sky was falling. Please where did I indicate this. I forgot someone some where will always have to say something. Heaven forbid I say GW is going two steps forward in other words improving so much but taking one step back with the high price. I added in the part of " maybe it was an illusion to of them changing as in, "time will tell if that is true or not". You know, it's ok to be be disappointed when you see someone or something do something you don't like. Heaven forbid I have an opinion, be it right or wrong. Oh well white knights if I am chicken little.
Two steps forward one step back? I mean if we complain about price, then we are not GW customer base, so then why go through all the hassles of making 40K/AoS affordable and making product cheaper without cutting prices. At least when releasing new product you can make them cheaper. So GW hasn't really changed much at all then.
Is this all just an illusion of change on GW part? Here I was having so much hope GW was changing for the better, but now I see it's same old same old when it comes to individual releases. So it's just basically back to normal now? Wow that didn't last long eh?
Little much to say the worlds ending eh?
In respect to everything AoS related, not only have prices been good but so have all the recent releases. Personally it makes a lot of sense.
Trying to get people into AoS, so you make great stuff. Your cash cow is 40k, so why not have higher prices? They know people will pay it. Or they will sell tooooons more BaC, still making lots of money
Please again, where did I say the sky is falling or the world is ending? Again heaven forbid someone calls out GW on them resulting to an old practice. Yes let's show GW we will accept high prices again. Why do we have to wait and see if it's a pattern? I rather complain now instead of later if it keeps happening. If people keep paying the high prices now then I guess we will have to keep paying high prices later. I rather show GW now that at least I will not stand for it.
Maybe you and Mymeran will accept high prices but I will not. So yes, I will call out GW for bad old practices. Hence two steps forward one step back. No where did I say they were evil, no where did I say they were horrible.
Mymearan wrote: This is not an all or nothing situation, the sky isn't falling because one release is expensive. They are experimenting with pricing like they said in their financial report, some releases have been cheaper and some more expensive. I've seen so many posts of "wow GW never changed huh?" despite copious amounts of evidence to the contrary. One misstep cancels out all the good ones apparently.
Not only that, but prices are set months in advance. The prices on Sylvaneth are a reflection of what happened with AoS' first releases and the Fyreslayers most likely.
Two steps forward one step back? I mean if we complain about price, then we are not GW customer base, so then why go through all the hassles of making 40K/AoS affordable and making product cheaper without cutting prices. At least when releasing new product you can make them cheaper. So GW hasn't really changed much at all then.
Is this all just an illusion of change on GW part? Here I was having so much hope GW was changing for the better, but now I see it's same old same old when it comes to individual releases. So it's just basically back to normal now? Wow that didn't last long eh?
Did you really expect them to suddenly start selling these Horus Heresy marines for cheaper than they were selling standard 40k tactical marines?
Did you really expect them to start undercutting their clamp pack kits with their two character Calth sprue?
The MKIV marines aren't horrendously more expensive than the standard tactical set, but they are a lot cheaper than the resin forgeworld ones. A little perspective wouldn't go amiss.
The Cataphracti are a different matter on the other hand, that kit IS very expensive, even when compared to its FW counterpart, though you do have to get the weapons seperately.
I really don't think this shows a sudden return to "the bad old days" though. It's hardly like the start collecting kits, and other box sets that offer a collective discount have disappeared over night. It's clear the strategy is to offer a discount for buying things collectively, while things that are singular will be priced more expensively.
Azreal13 wrote: Anyone who thinks people who are parting out BaC are going to keep prices low now there's a much higher baseline for what they're worth is, I suspect, likely in for a shock.
Sure, anyone can attempt to raise their prices as much as they like, but this is an actual free market situation. If e-bay seller 1 suddenly raise his prices by 100% just because GW started selling the individual kits separately, but e-bay seller 2 keeps his prices as they are now, I think I know who'll get the business.
Also, it's not just stores selling this stuff. There's a lot of individuals selling their unwanted BaC kits online.
It's already happening. The Termies, less than a week ago, would sell, auction or BIN, for somewhere between £15-25 NoS. as of right now on eBay I can't see one ending in the next day or two for much less than £30, and that's with bids on, not an asking price.
Stands to reason they'll be most price sensitive as they're less numerous than the Tacs and (I assume) more popular than the Dread, but I'd expect the Tacs to creep up a bit (they already sell for similar to what the standalone box will be priced from a discounter) and the dread too (although it might be hampered by competition from FW dreads and the apparent lack of popularity.
To think that the asking price for a used product won't increase when the retail prices increases (or is codified in this case) is a little naive.
A) Boost the value of their BaC kits
B) Make sales to those customers who would rather spend $130 on 10 termies than $140 on 5 termies+bunch of stuff they don't want
C) Attract sales from people who have $60, have never heard of ebay and want Mk IV tacs now.
He's likely right on all accounts.
There are more than a few people that buy all their miniatures at the LGS, and don't use online retailers, or Ebay.
I'm also willing to bet there will be a huge spike in Betrayal at Calth box sets over the next couple of weeks now that it's perceived as a 50% discount.
Azreal13 wrote: Anyone who thinks people who are parting out BaC are going to keep prices low now there's a much higher baseline for what they're worth is, I suspect, likely in for a shock.
Sure, anyone can attempt to raise their prices as much as they like, but this is an actual free market situation. If e-bay seller 1 suddenly raise his prices by 100% just because GW started selling the individual kits separately, but e-bay seller 2 keeps his prices as they are now, I think I know who'll get the business.
Also, it's not just stores selling this stuff. There's a lot of individuals selling their unwanted BaC kits online.
It's already happening. The Termies, less than a week ago, would sell, auction or BIN, for somewhere between £15-25 NoS. as of right now on eBay I can't see one ending in the next day or two for much less than £30, and that's with bids on, not an asking price.
Stands to reason they'll be most price sensitive as they're less numerous than the Tacs and (I assume) more popular than the Dread, but I'd expect the Tacs to creep up a bit (they already sell for similar to what the standalone box will be priced from a discounter) and the dread too (although it might be hampered by competition from FW dreads and the apparent lack of popularity.
To think that the asking price for a used product won't increase when the retail prices increases (or is codified in this case) is a little naive.
Terminators currently sell for about $39.99 NOS. I found the same listing on June 24th for the exact same price. I doubt price will uptick that much unless they discontinue BaC.
Different part of the world, I, unsurprisingly, was looking on the UK site.
The only mitigating factor may be that there actually isn't all that many NOS Termie squads on .co.uk right now, which may be artificially inflating the cost somewhat, but that may also be a reaction in itself to the new release.
Two steps forward one step back? I mean if we complain about price, then we are not GW customer base, so then why go through all the hassles of making 40K/AoS affordable and making product cheaper without cutting prices. At least when releasing new product you can make them cheaper. So GW hasn't really changed much at all then.
Is this all just an illusion of change on GW part? Here I was having so much hope GW was changing for the better, but now I see it's same old same old when it comes to individual releases. So it's just basically back to normal now? Wow that didn't last long eh?
Did you really expect them to suddenly start selling these Horus Heresy marines for cheaper than they were selling standard 40k tactical marines?
Did you really expect them to start undercutting their clamp pack kits with their two character Calth sprue?
The MKIV marines aren't horrendously more expensive than the standard tactical set, but they are a lot cheaper than the resin forgeworld ones. A little perspective wouldn't go amiss.
The Cataphracti are a different matter on the other hand, that kit IS very expensive, even when compared to its FW counterpart, though you do have to get the weapons seperately.
I really don't think this shows a sudden return to "the bad old days" though. It's hardly like the start collecting kits, and other box sets that offer a collective discount have disappeared over night. It's clear the strategy is to offer a discount for buying things collectively, while things that are singular will be priced more expensively.
Yeah I really did. I guess seeing that Dreadnaught makes me think that it should only be $15 or $20 the most. That is one horrible looking mini. Was shocked to see that the terminators are $14 a mini. Are these not Forge World prices? I guess the only good thing is you don't need to pay for Forge World shipping. Maybe that is where the savings come in.
Thing is, I don't follow GW every move. I don't look at every nook and cranny on what GW does. I don't follow all these non sites that talk about GW and then "that is where you get GW finances or they said this or that". I just see they were expensive, then in January they seemed to take a change of direction, giving out great product and now back to the old ways.
So I am sorry I don't sleep, think GW and fallow GW 24 hours a day and know their every move to expect that this would be expected.
If I see a company change direction then all of a sudden they stop that direction, that is what I think. Geez we all have differing opinions. Some people live and breath GW so know exactly how they work. I don't. Sorry that GW doesn't direct my life and I didn't know.
Azreal13 wrote: Different part of the world, I, unsurprisingly, was looking on the UK site.
The only mitigating factor may be that there actually isn't all that many NOS Termie squads on .co.uk right now, which may be artificially inflating the cost somewhat, but that may also be a reaction in itself to the new release.
Fair enough. I reckon there is a not insignificant amount of panic-buying right now because people are afraid BaC is going to go bye-bye after this release.
Two steps forward one step back? I mean if we complain about price, then we are not GW customer base, so then why go through all the hassles of making 40K/AoS affordable and making product cheaper without cutting prices. At least when releasing new product you can make them cheaper. So GW hasn't really changed much at all then.
Is this all just an illusion of change on GW part? Here I was having so much hope GW was changing for the better, but now I see it's same old same old when it comes to individual releases. So it's just basically back to normal now? Wow that didn't last long eh?
Little much to say the worlds ending eh?
In respect to everything AoS related, not only have prices been good but so have all the recent releases. Personally it makes a lot of sense.
Trying to get people into AoS, so you make great stuff. Your cash cow is 40k, so why not have higher prices? They know people will pay it. Or they will sell tooooons more BaC, still making lots of money
Prices are good on aos release??? I personally wouldnt call 80$ cad for ten monopese dwarves a good deal
Hey, question about BAC- is the box (i.e. physical packaging) any good? Considering getting just the game contents and I'm wondering if the box is, like, durable, well organized, or anything like that, or is it just standard flimsy packaging?
Two steps forward one step back? I mean if we complain about price, then we are not GW customer base, so then why go through all the hassles of making 40K/AoS affordable and making product cheaper without cutting prices. At least when releasing new product you can make them cheaper. So GW hasn't really changed much at all then.
Is this all just an illusion of change on GW part? Here I was having so much hope GW was changing for the better, but now I see it's same old same old when it comes to individual releases. So it's just basically back to normal now? Wow that didn't last long eh?
Did you really expect them to suddenly start selling these Horus Heresy marines for cheaper than they were selling standard 40k tactical marines?
Did you really expect them to start undercutting their clamp pack kits with their two character Calth sprue?
The MKIV marines aren't horrendously more expensive than the standard tactical set, but they are a lot cheaper than the resin forgeworld ones. A little perspective wouldn't go amiss.
The Cataphracti are a different matter on the other hand, that kit IS very expensive, even when compared to its FW counterpart, though you do have to get the weapons seperately.
I really don't think this shows a sudden return to "the bad old days" though. It's hardly like the start collecting kits, and other box sets that offer a collective discount have disappeared over night. It's clear the strategy is to offer a discount for buying things collectively, while things that are singular will be priced more expensively.
Yeah I really did. I guess seeing that Dreadnaught makes me think that it should only be $15 or $20 the most. That is one horrible looking mini. Was shocked to see that the terminators are $14 a mini. Are these not Forge World prices? I guess the only good thing is you don't need to pay for Forge World shipping. Maybe that is where the savings come in.
Thing is, I don't follow GW every move. I don't look at every nook and cranny on what GW does. I don't follow all these non sites that talk about GW and then "that is where you get GW finances or they said this or that". I just see they were expensive, then in January they seemed to take a change of direction, giving out great product and now back to the old ways.
So I am sorry I don't sleep, think GW and fallow GW 24 hours a day and know their every move to expect that this would be expected.
If I see a company change direction then all of a sudden they stop that direction, that is what I think. Geez we all have differing opinions. Some people live and breath GW so know exactly how they work. I don't. Sorry that GW doesn't direct my life and I didn't know.
Then I'm terribly sorry, but you're being a tad naive. It was clear as day that they weren't going to undercut themselves, the tac squad was always going to be around the £30 mark. I'm honestly suprised the Terminators are as much as they are, but the character set seems about right considering the price of clampacks these days and the fact that they were not going to undercut themselves.
As for the dreadnought, if you don't like the model, you don't really need to complain about its cost as you clearly won't be buying it, will you
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spiralingcadaver wrote: Hey, question about BAC- is the box (i.e. physical packaging) any good? Considering getting just the game contents and I'm wondering if the box is, like, durable, well organized, or anything like that, or is it just standard flimsy packaging?
The actual box is nice and thick. I haven't played the game, but the tiles dice and cards are of nice quality too.
As for the dreadnought, if you don't like the model, you don't really need to complain about its cost as you clearly won't be buying it, will you
Let's just shut this bs down from here on.
One does not have to intend to buy something to have an opinion on the value it offers. It's an argument as inane and childish as "if you don't like it, don't buy it."
Someone is just as entitled to feel it is overpriced if they were going to buy none of them as if they were going to buy 20.
spiralingcadaver wrote: Hey, question about BAC- is the box (i.e. physical packaging) any good? Considering getting just the game contents and I'm wondering if the box is, like, durable, well organized, or anything like that, or is it just standard flimsy packaging?
As has already been answered, the box is really solid. Good quality.
Also, the game---as well as most of their recent board games including Deathwatch Overkill---is very well done.
We've completed campaigns for B@C and DWOK and I've got nothing but good things to say about them both.
The new Warhammer Quest is also excellent.
Lost Patrol is the only board game release from their recent offerings that I've stayed away from.
Neither the minis nor the game play on that one grab me. But everything else since Execution Force has been great.
As for the dreadnought, if you don't like the model, you don't really need to complain about its cost as you clearly won't be buying it, will you
Let's just shut this bs down from here on.
One does not have to intend to buy something to have an opinion on the value it offers. It's an argument as inane and childish as "if you don't like it, don't buy it."
Someone is just as entitled to feel it is overpriced if they were going to buy nine of them as if they were going to buy 20.
God. Damn. Right.
Re: BAC box stuff, thanks for the info, all.
privateer, I think LP was terrible, I've actually got WHQ in the mail, BAC is incoming (decided just the rules since I've got to recognize enough is enough (power armor). DWOK... mostly just hesitant because I'll want it to be Space Hulk and I know it isn't, so my standards are probably too high to enjoy it...
As for the dreadnought, if you don't like the model, you don't really need to complain about its cost as you clearly won't be buying it, will you
Let's just shut this bs down from here on.
One does not have to intend to buy something to have an opinion on the value it offers. It's an argument as inane and childish as "if you don't like it, don't buy it."
Someone is just as entitled to feel it is overpriced if they were going to buy nine of them as if they were going to buy 20.
I find it no more childish and inane than people moaning and wailing about the price of something they have no intention of buying.
Expressing an opinion in a discussion forum is sorta the point of being here.
However, if one wishes to counter the opinion, I'd like to see a higher level of discourse than "nobody's making you buy it" or the equivalent.
Although, especially in the case of the Contemptor, I suspect there aren't any decent arguments to support the pricing and any defense is simply a knee jerk 'cause Gee Dubya response rather than any reasoned counterpoint.
Azreal13 wrote: To think that the asking price for a used product won't increase when the retail prices increases (or is codified in this case) is a little naive.
But that's the thing. The retail price hasn't actually changed, since BaC's pricing remains the same. Any kits being sold second hand comes from the BaC box, not from the individual kits.
A seller on the internet can ask whatever they want of course, but as long as the main price for actually obtaining these kits remain constant (until they chance the price of the BaC box, that one is RRP £95 regardless of whether GW charges £30 or £3000 for a box of MKIV marines) you can still make the same profit as you're used to, by selling the kits for the same price you are now and thus you are incentivized to undercut anyone who raise their prices because GW raised the price of a separate product.
As for the dreadnought, if you don't like the model, you don't really need to complain about its cost as you clearly won't be buying it, will you
Let's just shut this bs down from here on.
One does not have to intend to buy something to have an opinion on the value it offers. It's an argument as inane and childish as "if you don't like it, don't buy it."
Someone is just as entitled to feel it is overpriced if they were going to buy nine of them as if they were going to buy 20.
God. Damn. Right.
Re: BAC box stuff, thanks for the info, all.
privateer, I think LP was terrible, I've actually got WHQ in the mail, BAC is incoming (decided just the rules since I've got to recognize enough is enough (power armor). DWOK... mostly just hesitant because I'll want it to be Space Hulk and I know it isn't, so my standards are probably too high to enjoy it...
I own SH, too and DWOK is a strong contender.
Denying the other player maneuver room is key to strategy (as in if a section of gantry/grating is too small to allow a model to fit, it can't be moved there).
The SMs play almost as tough as the fluff and the first few missions are very easy for them.
As they get to the heart of the infested mine, the GSC slowly gain advantage until the final showdown mission.
If you get a chance to play it, I highly recommend giving it a go.
Back on topic, I think GW misstepped on this pricing scheme. I'm willing to continue my wait and see approach but they've done more positive in the past 6-8 months IMO.
They could have sold the tactical squads and termies for an extra $5 USD and done very well. Enough to compare it to buying an extra paint pot.
Azreal13 wrote: Expressing an opinion in a discussion forum is sorta the point of being here.
However, if one wishes to counter the opinion, I'd like to see a higher level of discourse than "nobody's making you buy it" or the equivalent.
Although, especially in the case of the Contemptor, I suspect there aren't any decent arguments to support the pricing and any defense is simply a knee jerk 'cause Gee Dubya response rather than any reasoned counterpoint.
I think the pricing of the Contemptor and Terminators is very simple to be honest. They don't want to undercut their forgeworld counterparts by too much.
The MKIV is a slightly different prospect as its a ten man squad that has a plastic equivilant sitting next to it on the shelf, whereas the Catphractii and the Contemptor look different enough from the Castraferrum Dreadnoughts and Standard Terminators to warrant people using a different pattern in Horus Heresy games.
At the end of the day, things aren't always as simple as "let's knock the prices out at £X" Betrayal at Calth was a pretty good deal, £95 got you a hell of a lot of minis. So when they came out in individual boxes it was always going to be a bit of a shock, wasn't it, and frankly it was always going to be a little underwhelming getting a load of stuff released that we already had. Though Dakka never ceases to amaze me with its ability to form an orderly queue of people willing to line up and acting shocked at GW doing exactly as expected.
I would not pay the MSRP or even 25% discounted plastic contemptor, but only mostly because I have a bunch of them from buying too many BaC boxes.
If I hadn't, the plastic contemptor would actually be kind of attractive. It is more posable than people give it credit for -- it just requires a little bit of plastic surgery. Both the legs and the waist can be easily manipulated, with the only real issue being the knees not being jointed.
Having built both FW Contemptors and some GW plastics, I will say that the plastic one is MUCH easier to put together and clean up, even if you want to cut it up and repose it, and is much less troublesome than the resin. You don't have to deal with cruddy casts, not to mention potential FW headaches if you're not in the UK. And, of course, the arms are interchangeable, so you can use resin weapons if that's what you want.
Here's an example of mine, reposed -
Spoiler:
The issue with just buying more BaC boxes is that you end up with WAY too many Mk4 space marines. I bought a ton of Calth, when they were US$90, so I'm not one to talk. In the end calculus, if I had just bought one or two Calth plus any extra models I needed instead of going nuts because of a good deal, would have spent a lot less. But then again, that's the story of my modelling life, lol.
I was really hoping the separate squads were going to be at the same price point at the 40k equvilant kit. It's like they stuck a extra $10 to all the kits prices. Super turn off. Good thing BaC is sticking around.
Azreal13 wrote: To think that the asking price for a used product won't increase when the retail prices increases (or is codified in this case) is a little naive.
But that's the thing. The retail price hasn't actually changed, since BaC's pricing remains the same. Any kits being sold second hand comes from the BaC box, not from the individual kits.
A seller on the internet can ask whatever they want of course, but as long as the main price for actually obtaining these kits remain constant (until they chance the price of the BaC box, that one is RRP £95 regardless of whether GW charges £30 or £3000 for a box of MKIV marines) you can still make the same profit as you're used to, by selling the kits for the same price you are now and thus you are incentivized to undercut anyone who raise their prices because GW raised the price of a separate product.
Here's the thing - the price you can obtain a product for bears little resemblance to what you sell it for. There could well be people out there splitting boxes they got at trade cost already, but strangely, they're not charging 40% less than the going rate are they?
By putting an RRP on the individual components of the set, they're changing the perception of the consumer as to what they're "worth" and the expectation of the retailer on what is achievable.
That's why there are auctions now on eBay uk with 15+ bids, hours to run and a current price of almost £30 plus shipping when a complete listings search shows the same thing available for £20-25 including shipping a week ago. Consumers will in future use the £40 RRP as the benchmark, and any savvy seller, commercial or private, will do little to disavow them if the notion.
General Kroll wrote: Did you really expect them to suddenly start selling these Horus Heresy marines for cheaper than they were selling standard 40k tactical marines?
Where did Davor say that he expected that? Maybe the same price as the current Tac squad.
General Kroll wrote: Did you really expect them to start undercutting their clamp pack kits with their two character Calth sprue?
It's ONE sprue. A single sprue. Cost it at 2 characters then.
General Kroll wrote: The MKIV marines aren't horrendously more expensive than the standard tactical set, but they are a lot cheaper than the resin forgeworld ones. A little perspective wouldn't go amiss.
Yes they are. They are significantly more expensive. They're 30% more expensive. For nothing. It's still 10 Marines with Bolters, a couple of weapon options, and a smattering of stuff for the Sergeant. It's just 10 Marines.
General Kroll wrote: The Cataphracti are a different matter on the other hand, that kit IS very expensive, even when compared to its FW counterpart, though you do have to get the weapons seperately.
That one's 55% more expensive than your standard Terminator kit.
And then there's the new Dread, a mono-pose Dread with 2 weapon options for 35% more than the standard Dread. It's not a complete like for like equivalent like the Tac Squad and the Termies, but still, that's a major price increase for what is, by current GW plastic standards, a very primitive mini. It is literally a box with one sprue and that is the opposite of value.
General Kroll wrote: I really don't think this shows a sudden return to "the bad old days" though. It's hardly like the start collecting kits, and other box sets that offer a collective discount have disappeared over night. It's clear the strategy is to offer a discount for buying things collectively, while things that are singular will be priced more expensively.
No one is saying that this represents a return to the bad old days. What we're saying is that this change for good is something of a facade, and hidden behind that facade is the same old bs that never went away.
SickSix wrote: OMG the 3 Contemptors bundle is possibly one of the most ridiculous bundles ever.
I mean everyone wants a formation of literally identical models right?!
Unless you buy a Citadel (tm) Finesaw (tm)! Then they become a formation of slightly different looking models! And it's also conveniently sold on their website!
I would not pay the MSRP or even 25% discounted plastic contemptor, but only mostly because I have a bunch of them from buying too many BaC boxes.
If I hadn't, the plastic contemptor would actually be kind of attractive. It is more posable than people give it credit for -- it just requires a little bit of plastic surgery. Both the legs and the waist can be easily manipulated, with the only real issue being the knees not being jointed.
Having built both FW Contemptors and some GW plastics, I will say that the plastic one is MUCH easier to put together and clean up, even if you want to cut it up and repose it, and is much less troublesome than the resin. You don't have to deal with cruddy casts, not to mention potential FW headaches if you're not in the UK. And, of course, the arms are interchangeable, so you can use resin weapons if that's what you want.
Here's an example of mine, reposed -
Spoiler:
The issue with just buying more BaC boxes is that you end up with WAY too many Mk4 space marines. I bought a ton of Calth, when they were US$90, so I'm not one to talk. In the end calculus, if I had just bought one or two Calth plus any extra models I needed instead of going nuts because of a good deal, would have spent a lot less. But then again, that's the story of my modelling life, lol.
To be fair mate. You could make anything turn out really good. You've got oodles of talent. That Contemptor is the bomb...
General Kroll wrote: Did you really expect them to suddenly start selling these Horus Heresy marines for cheaper than they were selling standard 40k tactical marines?
Where did Davor say that he expected that? Maybe the same price as the current Tac squad.
General Kroll wrote: Did you really expect them to start undercutting their clamp pack kits with their two character Calth sprue?
It's ONE sprue. A single sprue. Cost it at 2 characters then.
General Kroll wrote: The MKIV marines aren't horrendously more expensive than the standard tactical set, but they are a lot cheaper than the resin forgeworld ones. A little perspective wouldn't go amiss.
Yes they are. They are significantly more expensive. They're 30% more expensive. For nothing. It's still 10 Marines with Bolters, a couple of weapon options, and a smattering of stuff for the Sergeant. It's just 10 Marines.
General Kroll wrote: The Cataphracti are a different matter on the other hand, that kit IS very expensive, even when compared to its FW counterpart, though you do have to get the weapons seperately.
That one's 55% more expensive than your standard Terminator kit.
And then there's the new Dread, a mono-pose Dread with 2 weapon options for 35% more than the standard Dread. It's not a complete like for like equivalent like the Tac Squad and the Termies, but still, that's a major price increase for what is, by current GW plastic standards, a very primitive mini. It is literally a box with one sprue and that is the opposite of value.
General Kroll wrote: I really don't think this shows a sudden return to "the bad old days" though. It's hardly like the start collecting kits, and other box sets that offer a collective discount have disappeared over night. It's clear the strategy is to offer a discount for buying things collectively, while things that are singular will be priced more expensively.
No one is saying that this represents a return to the bad old days. What we're saying is that this change for good is something of a facade, and hidden behind that facade is the same old bs that never went away.
The prices on these releases are absurd.
Where did he say it? In his very next post...
You're screaming what I can only guess are Aussie percentages at me, as they don't match up to the British prices I'm going off. I'm sorry but frankly Australian prices have always been a freakish anomaly. I'm sorry that games workshop stuff is expensive for you guys, and continues to be, but the gist of this argument isn't one that should be twisted by an anomalous price.
Charging a £5 mark up on a box of MKIV armour is hardly a war crime, to quote doctor evil from Austin Powers, "It's the Diet Coke of evil, it's semi, evil, quasi evil, just one calorie."
Same with the dreadnought and the terminators, as I've already said above, absurd or not, they've got a forgeworld line that they need to protect first and foremost. Haven't we had info that the plastic HH stuff was primarily developed to ease the workload of FW? My guess is they couldn't really do a box game with just MKIV armour, the other stuff we got was just a bonus.
Saw that after I made my post. Expecting it to be cheaper is certainly naïve, but such increases don't make sense either.
General Kroll wrote: You're screaming what I can only guess are Aussie percentages at me, as they don't match up to the British prices I'm going off. I'm sorry but frankly Australian prices have always been a freakish anomaly. I'm sorry that games workshop stuff is expensive for you guys, and continues to be, but the gist of this argument isn't one that should be twisted by an anomalous price.
Charging a £5 mark up on a box of MKIV armour is hardly a war crime, to quote doctor evil from Austin Powers, "It's the Diet Coke of evil, it's semi, evil, quasi evil, just one calorie."
But why is it more expensive at all? It's a tactical squad. Why is this Tactical Squad more expensive that than tactical squad? It seems to be by sheer dint of being released after the other one? So GW's asinine policy of everything released next goes up 10%-30% for no fething reason continues? And we're in the 'good days' of GW now?
General Kroll wrote: Same with the dreadnought and the terminators, as I've already said above, absurd or not, they've got a forgeworld line that they need to protect first and foremost. Haven't we had info that the plastic HH stuff was primarily developed to ease the workload of FW? My guess is they couldn't really do a box game with just MKIV armour, the other stuff we got was just a bonus.
And yet they continue to undercut themselves with a boxed set that is more than half the price of its individual components. It does not make sense.
In Canadian dollars, it's pretty much buy three Mkivs and get a Dread, Termies and the characters for free.
The new Tactical spruces are jammed packed with more stuff on them than the current tactical box, no? Trade the Gravgun for a Heavy bolter, but get a bunch more bits? Not necessarily worth a ten dollar mark up, but still...
The Cataphractii trade the Assault Cannon and Cyclone Missile Launcher for ten lightning claws (or is it eight?) so a few extra bucks over standard termies isn't to crazy to me.
The Contemptor is pretty silly, though, considering it has less options than a Venerable or Standard dread box does (though at least it comes with its baseline weapon...)
I also don't understand all the bitching sbout the monopose contemptor when the boxnaughts are just as static.
Crazyterran wrote: I also don't understand all the bitching sbout the monopose contemptor when the boxnaughts are just as static.
Cant speak for others, but for me the Contemptor is such a huge missed opportunity. The design is perfect for a very poseable kit but for some reason they made one that is stuck in a static pose without some knife work. The box dreads have ankle and waist pivots and the venerable dread has the option for a poseable head. The only thing the plastic Contemptor has over the old dreads is the semi ball joints on the shoulder. Then on top of all that it only has two weapon options in the kit. That said its by no means a bad model and it looks decent enough painted up, but it could have been so much more.
I also don't understand all the bitching sbout the monopose contemptor when the boxnaughts are just as static.
I can't understand why anyone defends the contemptor as IMO all it requires is going to the the FW site + Using vision to see how terribly inadequate the mono-pose dreadnought is. The legs are by far the worst part (for instance).
There's nothing wrong with the contemptor really IMO. (as long as it's comparatlvely cheap)
It is however just ludicrous to say it's worth £35 when you can get a much better version from FW for little more.
And then claim that it doesn't matter it's monopose, because if you have a lot of time, skill, and tools; you can make it look different. Why not respond to every complaint about price or look of a model with the fact that if you buy some milliput and GS, and know how to sculpt as a professional level, you can make whatever model you want for little cost?
Azreal13 wrote: To think that the asking price for a used product won't increase when the retail prices increases (or is codified in this case) is a little naive.
But that's the thing. The retail price hasn't actually changed, since BaC's pricing remains the same. Any kits being sold second hand comes from the BaC box, not from the individual kits.
A seller on the internet can ask whatever they want of course, but as long as the main price for actually obtaining these kits remain constant (until they chance the price of the BaC box, that one is RRP £95 regardless of whether GW charges £30 or £3000 for a box of MKIV marines) you can still make the same profit as you're used to, by selling the kits for the same price you are now and thus you are incentivized to undercut anyone who raise their prices because GW raised the price of a separate product.
Here's the thing - the price you can obtain a product for bears little resemblance to what you sell it for. There could well be people out there splitting boxes they got at trade cost already, but strangely, they're not charging 40% less than the going rate are they?
By putting an RRP on the individual components of the set, they're changing the perception of the consumer as to what they're "worth" and the expectation of the retailer on what is achievable.
That's why there are auctions now on eBay uk with 15+ bids, hours to run and a current price of almost £30 plus shipping when a complete listings search shows the same thing available for £20-25 including shipping a week ago. Consumers will in future use the £40 RRP as the benchmark, and any savvy seller, commercial or private, will do little to disavow them if the notion.
Long term, the price you can obtain a product for absolutely impact the price you can sell it for, since if you don't sell it as cheap as you can while still making your required profit, then someone else can.
If the prices do rise across the board, then it suggest the customers are way more impressionable and ignorant of the actual value of these kits than what I imagined, but it looks like you may be right
Although if the prices do rise and stabilize, I might start to personally regularly buying BaC boxes to split and undercut those sellers by 10-20%. Would still net me a decent profit.
I've finally bought one of the last remaining Deathwatch sets from my LGS because I really like Genestealer cults and its obvious which way it's going if they get released individually.
Howard A Treesong wrote: I've finally bought one of the last remaining Deathwatch sets from my LGS because I really like Genestealer cults and its obvious which way it's going if they get released individually.
Aren't the sprues for the GSC and the Deathwatch squads a little more integrated, making individual releases a bit more difficult? I could be wrong though. All the bits sellers I've seen seem to have them all chopped up already.
the pricing makes a degree of sense when you consider that GW considers 30k to be their "botique line"as someone else noticed. FW prices are much higher, but there are people willing to pay em. so if GW is playing with pricing it makes sense that they'd slide the pricing of their horus heresy stuff up a little bit.
not saying I like it, but I can understand their thinking here.
The Sylvaneth stuff is pretty expensive as well as were the Ironjawz. Really no change on the price front.
It stops me from buying stuff I kinda want but don't need, though, like the BaC characters. I will stick to (big) boxes with "savings" an bits sites if the pricing stays at this level. Unless the pound drops below the €
The datasheets have the Space Marine faction symbol so they are C:SM. You can use them in your army via a second detachment, they will not be BA but SM.
Warhams-77 wrote: The datasheets have the Space Marine faction symbol so they are C:SM. You can use them in your army via a second detachment, they will not be BA but SM.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Can't you still use the minis as Blood Angles and just use the Blood Angles codex? That would be counts as right? Nothing wrong with that.
Spoiler:
What issue is that White Dwarf? Is it on sale now or next week?
Howard A Treesong wrote: I've finally bought one of the last remaining Deathwatch sets from my LGS because I really like Genestealer cults and its obvious which way it's going if they get released individually.
Just so we're clear:
Sad Panda has hinted/implied that the Deathwatch and Cult releases are NOT them simply selling the sprues from Overkill by themselves. The stuff within Overkill is things that could potentially be built using the contents of the boxed set sprues.
it hasn't already? with the way some news commentators made it out you'd think thbe pound would already be worthless and everyone would have been fired from their jobs, I mean jeeze Brexit was a week ago
Davor wrote: Can't you still use the minis as Blood Angles and just use the Blood Angles codex? That would be counts as right? Nothing wrong with that.
Yes, I was only answering the question on the previous page
What issue is that White Dwarf? Is it on sale now or next week?
Davor wrote: Can't you still use the minis as Blood Angles and just use the Blood Angles codex? That would be counts as right? Nothing wrong with that.
Yes, I was only answering the question on the previous page
What issue is that White Dwarf? Is it on sale now or next week?
It is on sale now, the current issue.
I made a post about it on WH40KFB, and they seemed to imply we will get them at some point for BA, DA, and SW.
The ridiculous pricing aside, i think this will increase the sales of Battle for Calth as the ebay sellers will see this as an opportunity to sell the mini's separatly. and GW will get more false sales information, see how many BAC we sold they must like it
What issue is that White Dwarf? Is it on sale now or next week?
It is on sale now, the current issue.
Thanks for the answer. Dang, I bought a WD today but it had the Allreial (sorry forgot her name) on beetle on the cover today. I guess that was last weeks and missed this weeks.
Jehan-reznor wrote: The ridiculous pricing aside, i think this will increase the sales of Battle for Calth as the ebay sellers will see this as an opportunity to sell the mini's separatly. and GW will get more false sales information, see how many BAC we sold they must like it
How is that false sales information? A sale is a sale. The gnomes don't sneak the money back out of the gamesworkshop coffers every time a bits seller breaks a set of Calth minis and sells them seperately online. You know once they have our cash, they tick a little box and cable it a good old sale.
People like the BaC minis ergo they are buying the BaC box.
Jehan-reznor wrote: The ridiculous pricing aside, i think this will increase the sales of Battle for Calth as the ebay sellers will see this as an opportunity to sell the mini's separatly. and GW will get more false sales information, see how many BAC we sold they must like it
How is that false sales information? A sale is a sale. The gnomes don't sneak the money back out of the gamesworkshop coffers every time a bits seller breaks a set of Calth minis and sells them seperately online. You know once they have our cash, they tick a little box and cable it a good old sale.
People like the BaC minis ergo they are buying the BaC box.
Huh? If BaC boxsets sell more now because of the individual prices are set now, that would mean those BaC sets wouldn't have sold as many copies now if the individual set prices were lower or not being released at all. So seeing an increase now in BaC is YES a false sales figure, it's not that people are liking the boxset for the game but just getting it for the minis because it's a cheaper option.
Davor wrote: So seeing an increase now in BaC is YES a false sales figure, it's not that people are liking the boxset for the game but just getting it for the minis because it's a cheaper option.
To be fair, pretty much everyone, including Games Workshop and Forge World, knows that you're buying BaC for the minis and not the board game. Otherwise there's no way that Forge World would have ever had the "wink wink nudge nudge, kit out entire BaC set in the Legion of your choice!" bundles.
Davor wrote: So seeing an increase now in BaC is YES a false sales figure, it's not that people are liking the boxset for the game but just getting it for the minis because it's a cheaper option.
To be fair, pretty much everyone, including Games Workshop and Forge World, knows that you're buying BaC for the minis and not the board game. Otherwise there's no way that Forge World would have ever had the "wink wink nudge nudge, kit out entire BaC set in the Legion of your choice!" bundles.
Yes I thought this as much, but what doesn't make sense to me though is, why bother make a game then and the resources are wasted, time and money and effort that could have went else where if people are never going to use it then. Just make BaC minis and be done with. So much money would have been saved not making counters/boards/rules and what not if they are never going be use, or I should say be used by many.
It's not like a ton of effort went into the board game part of it, that whole "they could've spent that money on something else" argument always rings pretty hollow to me. Besides, some of us like the board game. I'd rather have it than not, anyway.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Davor wrote: Huh? If BaC boxsets sell more now because of the individual prices are set now, that would mean those BaC sets wouldn't have sold as many copies now if the individual set prices were lower or not being released at all. So seeing an increase now in BaC is YES a false sales figure, it's not that people are liking the boxset for the game but just getting it for the minis because it's a cheaper option.
The only way a sales figure can be false is if they haven't actually sold anything. What you're saying makes no sense.
Guessing that the company had a "no price discounts" policy in effect(and still does). Packaging BaC as a "board game" instead of purely miniatures let them set a discount; it also has the effect of allowing tons of 40K players to dip into playing 30K, thereby giving lots more money to FW for all the books and other shiny stuff.
Mr. Grey wrote: Guessing that the company had a "no price discounts" policy in effect(and still does). Packaging BaC as a "board game" instead of purely miniatures let them set a discount; it also has the effect of allowing tons of 40K players to dip into playing 30K, thereby giving lots more money to FW for all the books and other shiny stuff.
To bad GW should drop this "no price discounts" and just start dropping their prices.
Announce prices of solo sets.
Panic buying clears stocks of BaC, sales of which would inevitably slow otherwise.
Discontinue BaC without being sat on too much stock.
Announce new Heresy boxed game.
Sell for a while.
Repeat...
Not sure. I thought and I can't remember where, it has the SM faction to it. Could be wrong since I am not familiar with this. All I remember was BA and DA couldn't use the rules.
Would be pretty stupid as half the suits of Cataphractii would be in the hands of traitors, for whom the last 10k years were not as long for many due to warp shenanigans.
Someone like the Black Legion should actually have a larger chance to still have functioning suits than the Ultramarines or Dark Angels. Would be more fluffy than their "pre-Heresy" suits being the mark that is generally seen as "post-Heresy".
AegisGrimm wrote: Would be pretty stupid as half the suits of Cataphractii would be in the hands of traitors, for whom the last 10k years were not as long for many due to warp shenanigans.
Someone like the Black Legion should actually have a larger chance to still have functioning suits than the Ultramarines or Dark Angels. Would be more fluffy than their "pre-Heresy" suits being the mark that is generally seen as "post-Heresy".
I don't think Dark Angles have access to this if I read a post correctly. Only SM faction can use them, so that means no BA, DA, GK, SW or anyone else not in the SM codex.
AegisGrimm wrote: Would be pretty stupid as half the suits of Cataphractii would be in the hands of traitors, for whom the last 10k years were not as long for many due to warp shenanigans.
Someone like the Black Legion should actually have a larger chance to still have functioning suits than the Ultramarines or Dark Angels. Would be more fluffy than their "pre-Heresy" suits being the mark that is generally seen as "post-Heresy".
I don't think Dark Angles have access to this if I read a post correctly. Only SM faction can use them, so that means no BA, DA, GK, SW or anyone else not in the SM codex.
I believe you're correct in terms of the dataslate entry; however, they're still quite usable as regular (non-Cataphractii) Terminators, if you so desire. But any game where you would be fielding either Cataphractii or Tactical terminators is likely to be so friendly/non-competitive that your opponent is probably happy to let you bend the rules and run them as whatever you want.
Same goes with a lot of the other dubiously worthwhile units like the stalker, stormtalon, stormhawk, etc. -- most people who want to field these just want to because they think the model is cool and they painted one
B@C, the GAME, was very well received at our FLGS. We've played through the campaign as well as the extra mission we were able to get in WD (there were a couple WD missions but it's the only one we got hold of).
In fact, the rules would actually get me back into playing 40k if GW were to pursue that route.
Are the rules for the 30k units in the WD different for those in HH books?
Yes they are. 30k units, most notably, lack "And they shall know no fear" and chapter tactics, and no "Deep strike" for the terminators. They also possess other rules in place of them, such as "Fury of the legion" on the tacticals, which enables extra shots in exchange for sacrificing your movement. They also have different load outs than their 40k equivalents. A modern 40k 10 man squad of tactical marines is closer in load out to a unit of 30k veteran marines (although with different options, obviously) than a 30k tactical squad. The 30k unit of tacticals starts at 10 men minimum, and the only option for the whole squad (besides the sarge) is "do I pay for these CCWs, or trade my bolters for them?". There is no option for any heavy/special weapons at all.
Of course, there's more to it than just that, but that's just a sampling of the differences in rules.
AegisGrimm wrote: Would be pretty stupid as half the suits of Cataphractii would be in the hands of traitors, for whom the last 10k years were not as long for many due to warp shenanigans.
Someone like the Black Legion should actually have a larger chance to still have functioning suits than the Ultramarines or Dark Angels. Would be more fluffy than their "pre-Heresy" suits being the mark that is generally seen as "post-Heresy".
I don't think Dark Angles have access to this if I read a post correctly. Only SM faction can use them, so that means no BA, DA, GK, SW or anyone else not in the SM codex.
As of right now, only Vanilla Marines have access to the BaC models since their rules have only thus far been released in Angels of Death, a Vanilla Marines supplement. I do think that they will be expanded into other Marine chapters (and hopefully even made available to CSM) when those chapters get new supplements (and the WD rules may change this as well).
Fun conversation with the manager of my local GW today when I went to grab some new paints, even he's now at the point where he referred to the next box as "The worst kept secret we have ever done" in regards to the Mk3 armour being in it.
Jehan-reznor wrote: The ridiculous pricing aside, i think this will increase the sales of Battle for Calth as the ebay sellers will see this as an opportunity to sell the mini's separatly. and GW will get more false sales information, see how many BAC we sold they must like it
How is that false sales information? A sale is a sale. The gnomes don't sneak the money back out of the gamesworkshop coffers every time a bits seller breaks a set of Calth minis and sells them seperately online. You know once they have our cash, they tick a little box and cable it a good old sale.
People like the BaC minis ergo they are buying the BaC box.
Huh? If BaC boxsets sell more now because of the individual prices are set now, that would mean those BaC sets wouldn't have sold as many copies now if the individual set prices were lower or not being released at all. So seeing an increase now in BaC is YES a false sales figure, it's not that people are liking the boxset for the game but just getting it for the minis because it's a cheaper option.
Jehan-reznor wrote: The ridiculous pricing aside, i think this will increase the sales of Battle for Calth as the ebay sellers will see this as an opportunity to sell the mini's separatly. and GW will get more false sales information, see how many BAC we sold they must like it
How is that false sales information? A sale is a sale. The gnomes don't sneak the money back out of the gamesworkshop coffers every time a bits seller breaks a set of Calth minis and sells them seperately online. You know once they have our cash, they tick a little box and cable it a good old sale.
People like the BaC minis ergo they are buying the BaC box.
Huh? If BaC boxsets sell more now because of the individual prices are set now, that would mean those BaC sets wouldn't have sold as many copies now if the individual set prices were lower or not being released at all. So seeing an increase now in BaC is YES a false sales figure, it's not that people are liking the boxset for the game but just getting it for the minis because it's a cheaper option.
A 40k set in the WD and a 30k set in the FW books?
Well the FW books deal with 30k rules right? Not that surprising 30k rules differ from 40k rules.
Yes, but AFAIK you could use the HH books in 40k.
I didn't think you needed a different set of 40k rules for the 30k models.
You can only use the HH books to make a Crusade Legion army. This is not the same as a Space Marines army. There is some overlap of models and unit names (just like there is between Blood Angels and Space Marines, for example) but they are different lists. You might be able to play a HH army against a 40k army, as they're the same games (mostly) mechanically, but they're balanced and designed differently, and not intended to be used against each other.
You might be able to play a HH army against a 40k army, as they're the same games (mostly) mechanically, but they're balanced and designed differently, and not intended to be used against each other.
To be fair, that can be said for most of the 40K army's against each other as well
Ah I see. So the Chappy and Tac squad are no different from the C:SM, but the HQ, Cataph Termies, and Dread got their own updated rules. So since the Cont Dread has fleet, does that mean it can't use a drop pod?
Jehan-reznor wrote: The ridiculous pricing aside, i think this will increase the sales of Battle for Calth as the ebay sellers will see this as an opportunity to sell the mini's separatly. and GW will get more false sales information, see how many BAC we sold they must like it
How is that false sales information? A sale is a sale. The gnomes don't sneak the money back out of the gamesworkshop coffers every time a bits seller breaks a set of Calth minis and sells them seperately online. You know once they have our cash, they tick a little box and cable it a good old sale.
People like the BaC minis ergo they are buying the BaC box.
Huh? If BaC boxsets sell more now because of the individual prices are set now, that would mean those BaC sets wouldn't have sold as many copies now if the individual set prices were lower or not being released at all. So seeing an increase now in BaC is YES a false sales figure, it's not that people are liking the boxset for the game but just getting it for the minis because it's a cheaper option.
This is nonsense. A sale is a sale is a sale.
You would make a terrible businessman.
Yes it is a sale but it would give the wrong feedback to the higher ups, common sense would dictate that people would buy them because the models are cheaper than buying them individual, GW seems to think we buy them just because they are cool and we are willing to pay the price they dictate. Selling so many BaC may give the wrong impression that lot of boardgame people are buying BaC. We assume that it is mostly modelers that buy extra copies of the game, and it isn't the first time GW made some uhm illogical decisions based on sales information.
Uriels_Flame wrote: Ah I see. So the Chappy and Tac squad are no different from the C:SM, but the HQ, Cataph Termies, and Dread got their own updated rules. So since the Cont Dread has fleet, does that mean it can't use a drop pod?
The first part is correct.
RE the Contemptor, I know can use a Dreadnought drop pod, although not as a dedicated transport (I think, I don't have the Imperial Armour book with its rules). If you're using that book though, you may as well use its rules for the contemptor, too, though. It's got more options. I dont know about a regular pod. I only have the HH rules for them.
If anyone else knows better than I do, I readily acknowledge that I don't know its 40k rules
Jehan-reznor wrote: The ridiculous pricing aside, i think this will increase the sales of Battle for Calth as the ebay sellers will see this as an opportunity to sell the mini's separatly. and GW will get more false sales information, see how many BAC we sold they must like it
How is that false sales information? A sale is a sale. The gnomes don't sneak the money back out of the gamesworkshop coffers every time a bits seller breaks a set of Calth minis and sells them seperately online. You know once they have our cash, they tick a little box and cable it a good old sale.
People like the BaC minis ergo they are buying the BaC box.
Huh? If BaC boxsets sell more now because of the individual prices are set now, that would mean those BaC sets wouldn't have sold as many copies now if the individual set prices were lower or not being released at all. So seeing an increase now in BaC is YES a false sales figure, it's not that people are liking the boxset for the game but just getting it for the minis because it's a cheaper option.
This is nonsense. A sale is a sale is a sale.
You would make a terrible businessman.
Yes it is a sale but it would give the wrong feedback to the higher ups, common sense would dictate that people would buy them because the models are cheaper than buying them individual, GW seems to think we buy them just because they are cool and we are willing to pay the price they dictate. Selling so many BaC may give the wrong impression that lot of boardgame people are buying BaC. We assume that it is mostly modelers that buy extra copies of the game, and it isn't the first time GW made some uhm illogical decisions based on sales information.
But hey a sale is a sale right?
So true. Thanks for explaining better than me.
"Hey look. Betrayal at Calth is our best selling stock last year. Let's scrap or change 40K into BaC rules because that is what everyone is buying and seems to want".
Yup, a sale is a sale and it tells what people want.
Jehan-reznor wrote: The ridiculous pricing aside, i think this will increase the sales of Battle for Calth as the ebay sellers will see this as an opportunity to sell the mini's separatly. and GW will get more false sales information, see how many BAC we sold they must like it
How is that false sales information? A sale is a sale. The gnomes don't sneak the money back out of the gamesworkshop coffers every time a bits seller breaks a set of Calth minis and sells them seperately online. You know once they have our cash, they tick a little box and cable it a good old sale.
People like the BaC minis ergo they are buying the BaC box.
Huh? If BaC boxsets sell more now because of the individual prices are set now, that would mean those BaC sets wouldn't have sold as many copies now if the individual set prices were lower or not being released at all. So seeing an increase now in BaC is YES a false sales figure, it's not that people are liking the boxset for the game but just getting it for the minis because it's a cheaper option.
This is nonsense. A sale is a sale is a sale.
You would make a terrible businessman.
Yes it is a sale but it would give the wrong feedback to the higher ups, common sense would dictate that people would buy them because the models are cheaper than buying them individual, GW seems to think we buy them just because they are cool and we are willing to pay the price they dictate. Selling so many BaC may give the wrong impression that lot of boardgame people are buying BaC. We assume that it is mostly modelers that buy extra copies of the game, and it isn't the first time GW made some uhm illogical decisions based on sales information.
But hey a sale is a sale right?
I think GW are more than aware that the majority of people are buying the box set for the model content, not its board game content. This whole "False Sale" bs is a complete red herring. They aren't some mindless drone servitor helming an out of control business based on sales data and sales data alone. I'm sure they are more than capable of seeing that trend, especially when they are the ones who are making the miniatures, and have seen that people are willing to pay nearly £100 to get their hands on those MKIV marines, and that they could probably sell them at a considerable mark up.
Oh and wait...here comes Davor to make build a wild strawman argument based on GW seemingly replacing 40k with a BaC style game based off the sales figures. Do pull the other one, it's got bells on it.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Someone mentionned MK III armour and no one picks up on that, or gives me more info? Come on, people!
Edit: Found the quote. GW managers are now a source? Since when do they get informed about such releases months in advance? I cant believe this even if I wanted to.
Sad Panda told us that 30k Thousand Sons and Ahriman will come in plastic. The former was posted here in the HH 2nd board game thread, so it is very likely plastic 1k Sons will be in that set as one faction. Release of the board game will be in fall 2016.
Jehan-reznor wrote: The ridiculous pricing aside, i think this will increase the sales of Battle for Calth as the ebay sellers will see this as an opportunity to sell the mini's separatly. and GW will get more false sales information, see how many BAC we sold they must like it
How is that false sales information? A sale is a sale. The gnomes don't sneak the money back out of the gamesworkshop coffers every time a bits seller breaks a set of Calth minis and sells them seperately online. You know once they have our cash, they tick a little box and cable it a good old sale.
People like the BaC minis ergo they are buying the BaC box.
Huh? If BaC boxsets sell more now because of the individual prices are set now, that would mean those BaC sets wouldn't have sold as many copies now if the individual set prices were lower or not being released at all. So seeing an increase now in BaC is YES a false sales figure, it's not that people are liking the boxset for the game but just getting it for the minis because it's a cheaper option.
This is nonsense. A sale is a sale is a sale.
You would make a terrible businessman.
Yes it is a sale but it would give the wrong feedback to the higher ups, common sense would dictate that people would buy them because the models are cheaper than buying them individual, GW seems to think we buy them just because they are cool and we are willing to pay the price they dictate. Selling so many BaC may give the wrong impression that lot of boardgame people are buying BaC. We assume that it is mostly modelers that buy extra copies of the game, and it isn't the first time GW made some uhm illogical decisions based on sales information.
But hey a sale is a sale right?
I think GW are more than aware that the majority of people are buying the box set for the model content, not its board game content. This whole "False Sale" bs is a complete red herring. They aren't some mindless drone servitor helming an out of control business based on sales data and sales data alone. I'm sure they are more than capable of seeing that trend, especially when they are the ones who are making the miniatures, and have seen that people are willing to pay nearly £100 to get their hands on those MKIV marines, and that they could probably sell them at a considerable mark up.
Oh and wait...here comes Davor to make build a wild strawman argument based on GW seemingly replacing 40k with a BaC style game based off the sales figures. Do pull the other one, it's got bells on it.
We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants.
If you're actually unable to grasp the point he was making in light of the above, there's no hope.
You're making the mistake of thinking like a hobbyist, not like someone who works for the company who isn't necessarily a gamer and whose job revolves around simply analyzing the data.
For what it's worth I think GW probably does realise this is the case, they're more open than they have been for some time, it's obviously a strategy to bundle high price stuff at a discount to solve the can't cut prices/need to be cheaper dichotomy so it isn't impossible this was the intent all along.
But we are discussing a company that has been so insular that they felt that chaplains needed reining in and let librarians carry on as the most potent HQ based, if anecdotes can be believed, solely on the use of them by one member of the studio.
To disagree with Davor is one thing, but to dismiss the history and precedent behind his thinking in the tone you are only reflects badly on you and demonstrates an apparent ignorance of the last few years of GW conduct.
Automatically Appended Next Post: *clicks on General Kroll's profile*
Have been backing in the hobby for just over a year now. Loving 40k and GW releases right now.
Suddenly all becomes clear, if you've only been back for a year or so prior to your registration, no wonder, you've missed most of the really bat gak crazy nonsense.
Jehan-reznor wrote: The ridiculous pricing aside, i think this will increase the sales of Battle for Calth as the ebay sellers will see this as an opportunity to sell the mini's separatly. and GW will get more false sales information, see how many BAC we sold they must like it
How is that false sales information? A sale is a sale. The gnomes don't sneak the money back out of the gamesworkshop coffers every time a bits seller breaks a set of Calth minis and sells them seperately online. You know once they have our cash, they tick a little box and cable it a good old sale.
People like the BaC minis ergo they are buying the BaC box.
Huh? If BaC boxsets sell more now because of the individual prices are set now, that would mean those BaC sets wouldn't have sold as many copies now if the individual set prices were lower or not being released at all. So seeing an increase now in BaC is YES a false sales figure, it's not that people are liking the boxset for the game but just getting it for the minis because it's a cheaper option.
This is nonsense. A sale is a sale is a sale.
You would make a terrible businessman.
Yes it is a sale but it would give the wrong feedback to the higher ups, common sense would dictate that people would buy them because the models are cheaper than buying them individual, GW seems to think we buy them just because they are cool and we are willing to pay the price they dictate. Selling so many BaC may give the wrong impression that lot of boardgame people are buying BaC. We assume that it is mostly modelers that buy extra copies of the game, and it isn't the first time GW made some uhm illogical decisions based on sales information.
But hey a sale is a sale right?
I think GW are more than aware that the majority of people are buying the box set for the model content, not its board game content. This whole "False Sale" bs is a complete red herring. They aren't some mindless drone servitor helming an out of control business based on sales data and sales data alone. I'm sure they are more than capable of seeing that trend, especially when they are the ones who are making the miniatures, and have seen that people are willing to pay nearly £100 to get their hands on those MKIV marines, and that they could probably sell them at a considerable mark up.
Oh and wait...here comes Davor to make build a wild strawman argument based on GW seemingly replacing 40k with a BaC style game based off the sales figures. Do pull the other one, it's got bells on it.
We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants.
If you're actually unable to grasp the point he was making in light of the above, there's no hope.
You're making the mistake of thinking like a hobbyist, not like someone who works for the company who isn't necessarily a gamer and whose job revolves around simply analyzing the data.
For what it's worth I think GW probably does realise this is the case, they're more open than they have been for some time, it's obviously a strategy to bundle high price stuff at a discount to solve the can't cut prices/need to be cheaper dichotomy so it isn't impossible this was the intent all along.
But we are discussing a company that has been so insular that they felt that chaplains needed reining in and let librarians carry on as the most potent HQ based, if anecdotes can be believed, solely on the use of them by one member of the studio.
To disagree with Davor is one thing, but to dismiss the history and precedent behind his thinking in the tone you are only reflects badly on you and demonstrates an apparent ignorance of the last few years of GW conduct.
Automatically Appended Next Post: *clicks on General Kroll's profile*
Have been backing in the hobby for just over a year now. Loving 40k and GW releases right now.
Suddenly all becomes clear, if you've only been back for a year or so prior to your registration, no wonder, you've missed most of the really bat gak crazy nonsense.
What's the point that you're actually trying to make here Azrael? Other than perhaps having some kind of little dig at me? Because from what I can see, you seem to be agreeing with my overall point that GW can probably grasp that customers aren't buying Calth for the board game element of the boxed set, and thus won't be extrapolating any kind of data from the sales in order to drive their rules direction for the next edition for 40k
So what on earth are you talking about? Other than perhaps an attempt to somehow insinuate that somehow the fact that I've only recently got back into the hobby should mean that my opinion has less validity than anyone elses around here, or that my understanding of the situation is in any way lesser in some way. It's a pretty low thing to do in my book, to shut down debate, by calling into question someone's validity rather than simply discussing the argument at hand. Perhaps it shows a little something about your honour maybe I've read you wrong but that's how I see you so far from our interactions and your interactions with others.
I'm well aware of GWs past exploits into madness and their statements on market research etc. So what? Things have clearly changed since then. I'm not sure bringing up the worst excesses of the Kirby era are relevant to the current trend of discounted Start collecting box sets, FAQs, community interaction, and rumours of (you guessed it) market research.
So anyway, we are getting far and away from the original problem. Its a bit of a hypothetical dead end to suggest that because these individual boxes are priced higher, that the BaC will start selling in greater numbers all of a sudden, and this will somehow equate to "false sales" this is nonsense of the highest order. The idea that someone walking into a GW will spend £100 on BaC because the MKIV marines are £5 more than the normal tactical marines is crazy for a start. That's a bit of a non starter. Someone might buy Calth if they are starting an army, maybe. But they would have done that anyway, and GW already knew this and were frankly hoping for it from the start, hence all the FW bundles with the legion specific stuff when Calth was released. But I guess all those were false sales as well, because they were all for people playing the board game, and the FWHH line is going to be changed to the Betrayal at Calth rules....
General Kroll wrote:[
I think GW are more than aware that the majority of people are buying the box set for the model content, not its board game content. This whole "False Sale" bs is a complete red herring. They aren't some mindless drone servitor helming an out of control business based on sales data and sales data alone. I'm sure they are more than capable of seeing that trend, especially when they are the ones who are making the miniatures, and have seen that people are willing to pay nearly £100 to get their hands on those MKIV marines, and that they could probably sell them at a considerable mark up.
Oh and wait...here comes Davor to make build a wild strawman argument based on GW seemingly replacing 40k with a BaC style game based off the sales figures. Do pull the other one, it's got bells on it.
I never said anything about BaC being turned into 40K. I was going by what a poster said if a sale is a sale, then that would mean those sales show people want or even desire BaC rules. If that is the case then GW could say lets turn 40K into BaC because of how the sales are going. Not a nice thought is it. Never said it was going to happen. Not sure why you think that is what I was spewing.
Again, nobody has argued against me when I said, why go through all the extra resources and time money and energy to make rules/ counters and a game for those minis if GW knew people wouldn't be using them and just buying for the minis. Wouldn't have GW just saved more money buy not bothering with the rules and just release the minis as is in the BaC box?
Again, heaven forbid if people have differing opinions. Now you have to try and embarrass them? Oh well I guess Dakka has officially become Whineseer.
Jehan-reznor wrote: The ridiculous pricing aside, i think this will increase the sales of Battle for Calth as the ebay sellers will see this as an opportunity to sell the mini's separatly. and GW will get more false sales information, see how many BAC we sold they must like it
How is that false sales information? A sale is a sale. The gnomes don't sneak the money back out of the gamesworkshop coffers every time a bits seller breaks a set of Calth minis and sells them seperately online. You know once they have our cash, they tick a little box and cable it a good old sale.
People like the BaC minis ergo they are buying the BaC box.
Huh? If BaC boxsets sell more now because of the individual prices are set now, that would mean those BaC sets wouldn't have sold as many copies now if the individual set prices were lower or not being released at all. So seeing an increase now in BaC is YES a false sales figure, it's not that people are liking the boxset for the game but just getting it for the minis because it's a cheaper option.
This is nonsense. A sale is a sale is a sale.
You would make a terrible businessman.
Yes it is a sale but it would give the wrong feedback to the higher ups, common sense would dictate that people would buy them because the models are cheaper than buying them individual, GW seems to think we buy them just because they are cool and we are willing to pay the price they dictate. Selling so many BaC may give the wrong impression that lot of boardgame people are buying BaC. We assume that it is mostly modelers that buy extra copies of the game, and it isn't the first time GW made some uhm illogical decisions based on sales information.
But hey a sale is a sale right?
So true. Thanks for explaining better than me.
"Hey look. Betrayal at Calth is our best selling stock last year. Let's scrap or change 40K into BaC rules because that is what everyone is buying and seems to want".
Yup, a sale is a sale and it tells what people want.
Looks like you said it to me. If you were intending to quote someone else, then maybe you should have used the quote function.
General Kroll wrote: [
What's the point that you're actually trying to make here Azrael? Other than perhaps having some kind of little dig at me? Because from what I can see, you seem to be agreeing with my overall point that GW can probably grasp that customers aren't buying Calth for the board game element of the boxed set, and thus won't be extrapolating any kind of data from the sales in order to drive their rules direction for the next edition for 40k
So what on earth are you talking about? Other than perhaps an attempt to somehow insinuate that somehow the fact that I've only recently got back into the hobby should mean that my opinion has less validity than anyone elses around here, or that my understanding of the situation is in any way lesser in some way. It's a pretty low thing to do in my book, to shut down debate, by calling into question someone's validity rather than simply discussing the argument at hand. Perhaps it shows a little something about your honour maybe I've read you wrong but that's how I see you so far from our interactions and your interactions with others.
I thought I'd pretty much stated my point explicitly?
To disagree with Davor is one thing, but to dismiss the history and precedent behind his thinking in the tone you are only reflects badly on you and demonstrates an apparent ignorance of the last few years of GW conduct.
Yup.
That you claim to be aware of what went on only harms your position. Davor made a perfectly sensible assertion that not understanding people's motivations for purchases may lead to incorrect assumptions on behalf of GW, that's not unreasonable, and certainly not worthy of mocking when you've little evidence to back up any real change just yet, because we've had Start Collecting on one hand but we're still getting £40 Terminator boxes and £20 characters on the other.
I won't be buying these single boxes as I prefer Mks 2, 3 & 5 & already have plenty of termies & 2 resin contemptors.
I think it's good that they're releasing the models separately. I know a lot of people wanted GW to do the same with the Ork Deff Copters
I have to confess to just buying the rules. I already have Space Marines, and the HH stuff doesn't float my boat. The game, on the other hand, is intriguing.
I corrected it. Good point too.
respectively; making splitting a box even more of a no-brainer.
