Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Tartaros is the op version, though! Gotta save something for FW.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Tartaros is the op version, though! Gotta save something for FW.

Yeah, everyone running around in Marneus Calgar's relic armor is pretty busted.

 Crazyterran wrote:
These boxes could be more for people who just want, say, the Terminators. If I want to build a unit of Fulmentarii, it would be cheaper to drop 140 on two boxes of Terminstors than 360 for two BACs.

Sure, if I'm going to use everything out of BAC it's not a good idea to buy them separately. But, if you are a schmuck like me who owns 4 BACs, you don't really need more power armour.

Yeah I'm in this camp. I bought two BACs and a few extra sets of mk iv guys from ebay. I don't need any more and I don't need another horrible dreadnought or kurtha sedd but I could go for some o' them terminators. The MK IV standalones are a nice-to-have for marine players because they're compatible with the regular models, so it's more kitbash opportunities. Likewise, I'm sure there are people who would want the dreadnought...

 Bull0 wrote:

bloodzy wrote:
Wow, Aussie mark up is strong in this one. lets break it down. Buying BaC complete box (30 mkiv, 2 characters, 5 termies, 1 dread) AU$265.

To buy these boxes individually to makeup the same amount of models you get in the BaC box equals AU$555!! We can buy 2x BaC boxes for double the models for AU$530.

Also love that 10 MKIV marines are AU$85 and the two character models together are also AU$85, must be a lot of plastic in those two guys.....

What's aussie markup got to do with it? It's double the price in GBP too.

BaC - £95

3x mk iv squads £90
Characters set £30
Terminators £35
Dreadnought £35

Total £190

The difference is tiny

Fun fact: as of 5 minutes ago, 95 GBP is ~165 AUD. That's one hell of an australian tax. Or to put it another way, would you pay 155 GBP for BaC?

I know it's not what you were referencing, just pointing out how insane the mark-up is on some stuff. As someone else pointed out, it's cheaper to buy a FW contempor than it is to buy the BaC dread, and that's just silly.

Honestly I see nothing wrong with the plastic Contemptor- but only when you get it from Ebay for 25 bucks.....

Hmmm, I think just getting BaC and some of the Tacticals and Terminators off eBay might be what I decide to do.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yikes... those are not cheap.

Two steps forward one step back? I mean if we complain about price, then we are not GW customer base, so then why go through all the hassles of making 40K/AoS affordable and making product cheaper without cutting prices. At least when releasing new product you can make them cheaper. So GW hasn't really changed much at all then.

Is this all just an illusion of change on GW part? Here I was having so much hope GW was changing for the better, but now I see it's same old same old when it comes to individual releases. So it's just basically back to normal now? Wow that didn't last long eh?

This is not an all or nothing situation, the sky isn't falling because one release is expensive. They are experimenting with pricing like they said in their financial report, some releases have been cheaper and some more expensive. I've seen so many posts of "wow GW never changed huh?" despite copious amounts of evidence to the contrary. One misstep cancels out all the good ones apparently.

Was there ever a hint in White Dwarf about what's coming next week?

Even the usually relatively benign FB page has a long list of people commenting how daft the prices are on the post sharing the release details.

At least now there IS a FB page we can have a better idea that this'll get back to someone at GW.

Probably nobody important, but someone.

It's probably counterproductive by GW to sell the individual kits from BaC with roughly a 100% priceup.

This ensues that anyone who wants at least two (or even just one) of the unit's in the BaC box will get a hugely better deal by buying a BaC box and selling off whatever they don't want.

At first glance one might think this is a good thing for GW. Instead of buying a box of terminators and one contemptor, i'm spending 50% more money to get a BaC box. That ignores the opportunity cost of everyone else however. How many of the MKIV marine boxed will be sold for what GW is asking when there'll be swarms of them on eBay for less than half the price from everyone who bought BaC boxes for extra terminators/contemptors?

Seems stupid and shortsighted to me.

I'm not complaining though. This ensures there'll be a steady supply of cheap plastic heresy kits availible online, as long as GW keeps selling the BaC box.

This seems somewhat logical if they plan on keeping BaC. They probably figured most people are either going to buy BaC for the HH armies or get the squads on ebay for cheap. So, they jacked up the prices because they figured they wouldn't actually sell that many of the individual kits in the long run.

Davor wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yikes... those are not cheap.

Two steps forward one step back? I mean if we complain about price, then we are not GW customer base, so then why go through all the hassles of making 40K/AoS affordable and making product cheaper without cutting prices. At least when releasing new product you can make them cheaper. So GW hasn't really changed much at all then.

Is this all just an illusion of change on GW part? Here I was having so much hope GW was changing for the better, but now I see it's same old same old when it comes to individual releases. So it's just basically back to normal now? Wow that didn't last long eh?

Little much to say the worlds ending eh?

In respect to everything AoS related, not only have prices been good but so have all the recent releases. Personally it makes a lot of sense.

Trying to get people into AoS, so you make great stuff. Your cash cow is 40k, so why not have higher prices? They know people will pay it. Or they will sell tooooons more BaC, still making lots of money

str00dles1 wrote:
Trying to get people into AoS, so you make great stuff. Your cash cow is 40k, so why not have higher prices? They know people will pay it. Or they will sell tooooons more BaC, still making lots of money

Yes, well... until they won't. Everyone has a "ceiling price" for this kind of stuff. I'd say GW needs to know what's the ceiling price for the most people to maximize sales and profits.

Anyone who thinks people who are parting out BaC are going to keep prices low now there's a much higher baseline for what they're worth is, I suspect, likely in for a shock.

which will just mean people won't buy from them either,

and will either do without or buy BaC themselves and possibly try to sell the bits they don't want so instead of professional bit sellers you;ll have more choice of amature ones

 TheCustomLime wrote:
This seems somewhat logical if they plan on keeping BaC. They probably figured most people are either going to buy BaC for the HH armies or get the squads on ebay for cheap. So, they jacked up the prices because they figured they wouldn't actually sell that many of the individual kits in the long run.

But that's the thing. If they had priced the individual kits for a bit more then half of what they do now, then people who's only after a specific kit or two might have bought them instead of going through the hassle of breaking up a BaC box. As it is now, no one in their right mind will buy a single of those kits when they can get almost half a BaC box for the price of one kit or get them online for almost half the price. This ensure the online market will keep being flooded with BaC components.

Instead of customer A buying a box of Terminator and a Contemptor for £25 each, he'll get a BaC box for £95 and sell the rest online to customer B. As long as he gets £45 for the rest of the stuff, he's broken even meaning he can sell the marines for as low as £10 a squad and the characters 2 for £5. Anything above that is pure savings on the £25 kits.
Now, the Cataphracts and Contemptor isn't even £25 but £35 and £40 respectively; making splitting a box even more of a no-brainer.

Now you can get a BaC box, keep the Terminators and Dreadnought, sell the marine boxes and characters for a friggin' £5'er each and still get the game for free. It's just ludicrous. How do you expect to sell boxes of MKIV marines for £30, when people will regularly be able to sell them new on sprue for £10 and still make a profit?

If they accept that they'll barely sell any individual kits at this price, why bother offering them in the first place?

 Azreal13 wrote:
Anyone who thinks people who are parting out BaC are going to keep prices low now there's a much higher baseline for what they're worth is, I suspect, likely in for a shock.

Sure, anyone can attempt to raise their prices as much as they like, but this is an actual free market situation. If e-bay seller 1 suddenly raise his prices by 100% just because GW started selling the individual kits separately, but e-bay seller 2 keeps his prices as they are now, I think I know who'll get the business.

Also, it's not just stores selling this stuff. There's a lot of individuals selling their unwanted BaC kits online.

 Zywus wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
This seems somewhat logical if they plan on keeping BaC. They probably figured most people are either going to buy BaC for the HH armies or get the squads on ebay for cheap. So, they jacked up the prices because they figured they wouldn't actually sell that many of the individual kits in the long run.

But that's the thing. If they had priced the individual kits for a bit more then half of what they do now, then people who's only after a specific kit or two might have bought them instead of going through the hassle of breaking up a BaC box. As it is now, no one in their right mind will buy a single of those kits when they can get almost half a BaC box for the price of one kit or get them online for almost half the price. This ensure the online market will keep being flooded with BaC components.

Instead of customer A buying a box of Terminator and a Contemptor for £25 each, he'll get a BaC box for £95 and sell the rest online to customer B. As long as he gets £45 for the rest of the stuff, he's broken even meaning he can sell the marines for as low as £10 a squad and the characters 2 for £5. Anything above that is pure savings on the £25 kits.
Now, the Cataphracts and Contemptor isn't even £25 but £35 and £40 respectively; making splitting a box even more of a no-brainer.

Now you can get a BaC box, keep the Terminators and Dreadnought, sell the marine boxes and characters for a friggin' £5'er each and still get the game for free. It's just ludicrous. How do you expect to sell boxes of MKIV marines for £30, when people will regularly be able to sell them new on sprue for £10 and still make a profit?

If they accept that they'll barely sell any individual kits at this price, why bother offering them in the first place?

To A) Boost the value of their BaC kits, B) Make sales to those customers who would rather spend $130 on 10 termies than $140 on 5 termies+bunch of stuff they don't want and C) Attract sales from people who have $60, have never heard of ebay and want Mk IV tacs now.

Mymearan wrote:This is not an all or nothing situation, the sky isn't falling because one release is expensive. They are experimenting with pricing like they said in their financial report, some releases have been cheaper and some more expensive. I've seen so many posts of "wow GW never changed huh?" despite copious amounts of evidence to the contrary. One misstep cancels out all the good ones apparently.

Never said the sky was falling. Please where did I indicate this. I forgot someone some where will always have to say something. Heaven forbid I say GW is going two steps forward in other words improving so much but taking one step back with the high price. I added in the part of " maybe it was an illusion to of them changing as in, "time will tell if that is true or not". You know, it's ok to be be disappointed when you see someone or something do something you don't like. Heaven forbid I have an opinion, be it right or wrong. Oh well white knights if I am chicken little.

str00dles1 wrote:

Davor wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yikes... those are not cheap.

Two steps forward one step back? I mean if we complain about price, then we are not GW customer base, so then why go through all the hassles of making 40K/AoS affordable and making product cheaper without cutting prices. At least when releasing new product you can make them cheaper. So GW hasn't really changed much at all then.

Is this all just an illusion of change on GW part? Here I was having so much hope GW was changing for the better, but now I see it's same old same old when it comes to individual releases. So it's just basically back to normal now? Wow that didn't last long eh?

Little much to say the worlds ending eh?

In respect to everything AoS related, not only have prices been good but so have all the recent releases. Personally it makes a lot of sense.

Trying to get people into AoS, so you make great stuff. Your cash cow is 40k, so why not have higher prices? They know people will pay it. Or they will sell tooooons more BaC, still making lots of money

Please again, where did I say the sky is falling or the world is ending? Again heaven forbid someone calls out GW on them resulting to an old practice. Yes let's show GW we will accept high prices again. Why do we have to wait and see if it's a pattern? I rather complain now instead of later if it keeps happening. If people keep paying the high prices now then I guess we will have to keep paying high prices later. I rather show GW now that at least I will not stand for it.

Maybe you and Mymeran will accept high prices but I will not. So yes, I will call out GW for bad old practices. Hence two steps forward one step back. No where did I say they were evil, no where did I say they were horrible.

 Mymearan wrote:
This is not an all or nothing situation, the sky isn't falling because one release is expensive. They are experimenting with pricing like they said in their financial report, some releases have been cheaper and some more expensive. I've seen so many posts of "wow GW never changed huh?" despite copious amounts of evidence to the contrary. One misstep cancels out all the good ones apparently.

Not only that, but prices are set months in advance. The prices on Sylvaneth are a reflection of what happened with AoS' first releases and the Fyreslayers most likely.

Davor wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yikes... those are not cheap.

Two steps forward one step back? I mean if we complain about price, then we are not GW customer base, so then why go through all the hassles of making 40K/AoS affordable and making product cheaper without cutting prices. At least when releasing new product you can make them cheaper. So GW hasn't really changed much at all then.

Is this all just an illusion of change on GW part? Here I was having so much hope GW was changing for the better, but now I see it's same old same old when it comes to individual releases. So it's just basically back to normal now? Wow that didn't last long eh?

Did you really expect them to suddenly start selling these Horus Heresy marines for cheaper than they were selling standard 40k tactical marines?

Did you really expect them to start undercutting their clamp pack kits with their two character Calth sprue?

The MKIV marines aren't horrendously more expensive than the standard tactical set, but they are a lot cheaper than the resin forgeworld ones. A little perspective wouldn't go amiss.

The Cataphracti are a different matter on the other hand, that kit IS very expensive, even when compared to its FW counterpart, though you do have to get the weapons seperately.

I really don't think this shows a sudden return to "the bad old days" though. It's hardly like the start collecting kits, and other box sets that offer a collective discount have disappeared over night. It's clear the strategy is to offer a discount for buying things collectively, while things that are singular will be priced more expensively.

 Zywus wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Anyone who thinks people who are parting out BaC are going to keep prices low now there's a much higher baseline for what they're worth is, I suspect, likely in for a shock.

Sure, anyone can attempt to raise their prices as much as they like, but this is an actual free market situation. If e-bay seller 1 suddenly raise his prices by 100% just because GW started selling the individual kits separately, but e-bay seller 2 keeps his prices as they are now, I think I know who'll get the business.

Also, it's not just stores selling this stuff. There's a lot of individuals selling their unwanted BaC kits online.

It's already happening. The Termies, less than a week ago, would sell, auction or BIN, for somewhere between £15-25 NoS. as of right now on eBay I can't see one ending in the next day or two for much less than £30, and that's with bids on, not an asking price.

Stands to reason they'll be most price sensitive as they're less numerous than the Tacs and (I assume) more popular than the Dread, but I'd expect the Tacs to creep up a bit (they already sell for similar to what the standalone box will be priced from a discounter) and the dread too (although it might be hampered by competition from FW dreads and the apparent lack of popularity.

To think that the asking price for a used product won't increase when the retail prices increases (or is codified in this case) is a little naive.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

A) Boost the value of their BaC kits
B) Make sales to those customers who would rather spend $130 on 10 termies than $140 on 5 termies+bunch of stuff they don't want
C) Attract sales from people who have $60, have never heard of ebay and want Mk IV tacs now.

He's likely right on all accounts.

There are more than a few people that buy all their miniatures at the LGS, and don't use online retailers, or Ebay.

I'm also willing to bet there will be a huge spike in Betrayal at Calth box sets over the next couple of weeks now that it's perceived as a 50% discount.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Zywus wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Anyone who thinks people who are parting out BaC are going to keep prices low now there's a much higher baseline for what they're worth is, I suspect, likely in for a shock.

Sure, anyone can attempt to raise their prices as much as they like, but this is an actual free market situation. If e-bay seller 1 suddenly raise his prices by 100% just because GW started selling the individual kits separately, but e-bay seller 2 keeps his prices as they are now, I think I know who'll get the business.

Also, it's not just stores selling this stuff. There's a lot of individuals selling their unwanted BaC kits online.

It's already happening. The Termies, less than a week ago, would sell, auction or BIN, for somewhere between £15-25 NoS. as of right now on eBay I can't see one ending in the next day or two for much less than £30, and that's with bids on, not an asking price.

Stands to reason they'll be most price sensitive as they're less numerous than the Tacs and (I assume) more popular than the Dread, but I'd expect the Tacs to creep up a bit (they already sell for similar to what the standalone box will be priced from a discounter) and the dread too (although it might be hampered by competition from FW dreads and the apparent lack of popularity.

To think that the asking price for a used product won't increase when the retail prices increases (or is codified in this case) is a little naive.

Terminators currently sell for about $39.99 NOS. I found the same listing on June 24th for the exact same price. I doubt price will uptick that much unless they discontinue BaC.

Different part of the world, I, unsurprisingly, was looking on the UK site.

The only mitigating factor may be that there actually isn't all that many NOS Termie squads on .co.uk right now, which may be artificially inflating the cost somewhat, but that may also be a reaction in itself to the new release.

I do notice all the termi kits that were just on ebay for about 35 dollars are gone now. I better nab at least the captain fast.

 General Kroll wrote:

Davor wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yikes... those are not cheap.

Two steps forward one step back? I mean if we complain about price, then we are not GW customer base, so then why go through all the hassles of making 40K/AoS affordable and making product cheaper without cutting prices. At least when releasing new product you can make them cheaper. So GW hasn't really changed much at all then.

Is this all just an illusion of change on GW part? Here I was having so much hope GW was changing for the better, but now I see it's same old same old when it comes to individual releases. So it's just basically back to normal now? Wow that didn't last long eh?

Did you really expect them to suddenly start selling these Horus Heresy marines for cheaper than they were selling standard 40k tactical marines?

Did you really expect them to start undercutting their clamp pack kits with their two character Calth sprue?

The MKIV marines aren't horrendously more expensive than the standard tactical set, but they are a lot cheaper than the resin forgeworld ones. A little perspective wouldn't go amiss.

The Cataphracti are a different matter on the other hand, that kit IS very expensive, even when compared to its FW counterpart, though you do have to get the weapons seperately.

I really don't think this shows a sudden return to "the bad old days" though. It's hardly like the start collecting kits, and other box sets that offer a collective discount have disappeared over night. It's clear the strategy is to offer a discount for buying things collectively, while things that are singular will be priced more expensively.

Yeah I really did. I guess seeing that Dreadnaught makes me think that it should only be $15 or $20 the most. That is one horrible looking mini. Was shocked to see that the terminators are $14 a mini. Are these not Forge World prices? I guess the only good thing is you don't need to pay for Forge World shipping. Maybe that is where the savings come in.

Thing is, I don't follow GW every move. I don't look at every nook and cranny on what GW does. I don't follow all these non sites that talk about GW and then "that is where you get GW finances or they said this or that". I just see they were expensive, then in January they seemed to take a change of direction, giving out great product and now back to the old ways.

So I am sorry I don't sleep, think GW and fallow GW 24 hours a day and know their every move to expect that this would be expected.

If I see a company change direction then all of a sudden they stop that direction, that is what I think. Geez we all have differing opinions. Some people live and breath GW so know exactly how they work. I don't. Sorry that GW doesn't direct my life and I didn't know.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Different part of the world, I, unsurprisingly, was looking on the UK site.

The only mitigating factor may be that there actually isn't all that many NOS Termie squads on .co.uk right now, which may be artificially inflating the cost somewhat, but that may also be a reaction in itself to the new release.

Fair enough. I reckon there is a not insignificant amount of panic-buying right now because people are afraid BaC is going to go bye-bye after this release.

str00dles1 wrote:

Davor wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yikes... those are not cheap.

Two steps forward one step back? I mean if we complain about price, then we are not GW customer base, so then why go through all the hassles of making 40K/AoS affordable and making product cheaper without cutting prices. At least when releasing new product you can make them cheaper. So GW hasn't really changed much at all then.

Is this all just an illusion of change on GW part? Here I was having so much hope GW was changing for the better, but now I see it's same old same old when it comes to individual releases. So it's just basically back to normal now? Wow that didn't last long eh?

Little much to say the worlds ending eh?

In respect to everything AoS related, not only have prices been good but so have all the recent releases. Personally it makes a lot of sense.

Trying to get people into AoS, so you make great stuff. Your cash cow is 40k, so why not have higher prices? They know people will pay it. Or they will sell tooooons more BaC, still making lots of money

Prices are good on aos release??? I personally wouldnt call 80$ cad for ten monopese dwarves a good deal

To buy the equivalent parts from FW for the ten man squad would cost £93. £30 doesn't seem too bad