So we are launching a portable game table on kickstarter.

It's 6x4 feet of play space. It weighs about 27lbs, and it folds up into a carry case so you can transport it in your car or slip it under a bed when it's not in use.

Please visit our kickstarter and have a look.

Thank you for your interest and may you roll many 6's.

www.firmerterra.com

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1544983357/alpha-a-portable-gaming-table-for-miniatures-games




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So this is our experimental model. We primed and painted the surface. With a little paint and creativity you get a map and a portable play surface.

Make War Everywhere.

Thanks for looking,

Joe

I just moved into a new house with a room that will be dedicated to 'entertaining' so this is absolutely perfect for my needs and the timing couldn't be better. Backed.

I think you'll struggle to get backers from outside the US with the lack of overseas rewards. Might be worth looking into changing that. Infact the UK and Europe would probably be more likely customers due to the generally smaller houses and lack of usable space as opposed to the US. Just my 2 cents. Good idea though. Would definitely help to see a full working product in detail though. Until then I have a lot of doubts.

Looks very nice!

I love the idea. But not being in the US, I can't do anything to help you.

Bobug wrote:
I think you'll struggle to get backers from outside the US with the lack of overseas rewards. Might be worth looking into changing that. Infact the UK and Europe would probably be more likely customers due to the generally smaller houses and lack of usable space as opposed to the US. Just my 2 cents. Good idea though. Would definitely help to see a full working product in detail though. Until then I have a lot of doubts.

I can see why they wouldn't though, shipping would likely cost more than the product itself due to the weight and size, I seem to recall some people in Italy doing a similar kickstarter some time back; maybe check into progress on that one?

Edit:

It looks like it's being assembled abroad so if they wanted to deal with the vagaries of VAT and locating a UK/EU-based partner for distribution, they could expand it but again, that sounds like an awful lot of trouble if they want to keep it small as a proof of concept/demand before getting into international taxation, customs, etc.

Yup, overseas postage on this would kill it. For example, if I were to send a Forge World book weighing under 1.2kg to the States (me being in the UK) it would cost £15+. The shipping on a table such as this would just be a no go as far as being cost effective.

Good luck with the project.

To me this just looks like a fancy folding table. Honestly I could get some piano hinges and cut up an 8x4 piece of plywood, attach some folding legs and have myself the same thing. All that would cost me about $25 at home depot and an hour of my time.

I don't see anything special about this table, not for $140 plus $35 in shipping.

It's a real need and one I've been thinking about... unfortunately I think your solution needs more polish (and really probably only needs to be 6x4).

US only.

 namiel wrote:
To me this just looks like a fancy folding table. Honestly I could get some piano hinges and cut up an 8x4 piece of plywood, attach some folding legs and have myself the same thing. All that would cost me about $25 at home depot and an hour of my time.

I don't see anything special about this table, not for $140 plus $35 in shipping.

Please make a guide. Saw a few on the web, all looks too heavy to tow around.

Waaargh wrote:
US only.

 namiel wrote:
To me this just looks like a fancy folding table. Honestly I could get some piano hinges and cut up an 8x4 piece of plywood, attach some folding legs and have myself the same thing. All that would cost me about $25 at home depot and an hour of my time.

I don't see anything special about this table, not for $140 plus $35 in shipping.

Please make a guide. Saw a few on the web, all looks too heavy to tow around.

It will all depend on what you use. If you spring for lighter materials youll pay more but easier to carry or you get lighter materials but with less strength. Using 2x2s and 1x2s you could build one with hardboard that would be pretty light BUT if you leaned on it would probably bust

Bobug wrote:
I think you'll struggle to get backers from outside the US with the lack of overseas rewards. Might be worth looking into changing that. Infact the UK and Europe would probably be more likely customers due to the generally smaller houses and lack of usable space as opposed to the US. Just my 2 cents. Good idea though. Would definitely help to see a full working product in detail though. Until then I have a lot of doubts.

Greetings. This was not an easy decision. We will be offering this table to Europe once our domestic campaign is completed. So please be patient, this will be ready for you soon. I would love to just open everyone to the purchase but shipping and customs clearance becomes a hurdle that could slow down the whole process. Send me a PM and I'll keep you on the list.

All the best,
Joe



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 agnosto wrote:

Bobug wrote:
I think you'll struggle to get backers from outside the US with the lack of overseas rewards. Might be worth looking into changing that. Infact the UK and Europe would probably be more likely customers due to the generally smaller houses and lack of usable space as opposed to the US. Just my 2 cents. Good idea though. Would definitely help to see a full working product in detail though. Until then I have a lot of doubts.

I can see why they wouldn't though, shipping would likely cost more than the product itself due to the weight and size, I seem to recall some people in Italy doing a similar kickstarter some time back; maybe check into progress on that one?

Edit:

It looks like it's being assembled abroad so if they wanted to deal with the vagaries of VAT and locating a UK/EU-based partner for distribution, they could expand it but again, that sounds like an awful lot of trouble if they want to keep it small as a proof of concept/demand before getting into international taxation, customs, etc.

We already have a distributor ready in Europe. Let us complete the domestic campaign and we will roll out there next. You hit the nail on the head sir. Please spread the word. The sooner we get this campaign up to steam the sooner we can start on foreign sales. Thanks.


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 namiel wrote:
To me this just looks like a fancy folding table. Honestly I could get some piano hinges and cut up an 8x4 piece of plywood, attach some folding legs and have myself the same thing. All that would cost me about $25 at home depot and an hour of my time.

I don't see anything special about this table, not for $140 plus $35 in shipping.

I totally understand where you're coming from. I have experience as a craftsman.

I tried the ply board solution with little stoppers. Essentially I had a ply board that went on top of a table. The stoppers were recessed since the table wasn't wide enough. Which lead to instability. Also wife wasn't happy about the fact that a bunch of us were rolling dice and drinking beer in the dining room.
A good construct out of ply wood and 2x4's will run you about 150.00 to 200.00 (assuming about 50 to 80 for your time since it's a 5 hour project with the finishing touches. That's something that you can be proud-of-level not just nails and splinters. Now you're stuck with a giant table somewhere.

We didn't engineer this for the sake of just having a table, we made this so that you can take a surface to any room or any home. A 10 year-old assembled this in 4 minutes out of the box without instructions. Simple, fast, and out of the way.

But thanks for the constructive criticism.

Joe

Great to hear.

One thing I would rate highly was for a battlemat to fit on top of it, without gettingdamaged on the corners. Can it be done?

Dose this table ship to Canada or only in the us?

Would've backed instantly but then I saw US only...


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I love your project but if you're not shipping US then I sadly cannot see how you'd be able to compete against other brands, such as gamemat.eu's foldable table.

 Zewrath wrote:
Would've backed instantly but then I saw US only...


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I love your project but if you're not shipping US then I sadly cannot see how you'd be able to compete against other brands, such as gamemat.eu's foldable table.

Ironically, gamemat.eu's folding table is not yet available for US customers. I emailed them today about this.

Edit

Just got a reply and gamemat.eu do economy shipping to the US with a 3-4 week delivery time. I don't know how it's reconciled on the webstore, though.

Greetings.

First of.... WE WILL BE SHIPPING WORLD WIDE as soon as we fulfill the US Kickstarter campaign. If you can't buy the ALPHA right now then please consider donating to get us moving along.

Shipping outside of the US will involve customs clearance and additional fees. We wanted to keep this simple and under control for our initial run. But YES, we already have a warehouse booked in Europe for distribution.

This kickstarter is about getting a product off the ground.

We need your help, we need you to tell a friend.

EmergencyPod wrote:
Greetings.

First of.... WE WILL BE SHIPPING WORLD WIDE as soon as we fulfill the US Kickstarter campaign. If you can't buy the ALPHA right now then please consider donating to get us moving along.

Shipping outside of the US will involve customs clearance and additional fees. We wanted to keep this simple and under control for our initial run. But YES, we already have a warehouse booked in Europe for distribution.

This kickstarter is about getting a product off the ground.

We need your help, we need you to tell a friend.

So what you're saying is if I, say, pledge and I'm located in Denmark, you will ship to me if you actually become successful with your funding? If that's the case then why bother typing "US only" in the first place?

He is saying, Europeans pledging now get nothing but the chance to help bring this to the US market. You would be donating money, not buying anything. The taxes and customs fees for shipping make it too expensive to ship to Europe right now, that is why it is US only. They will offer it for sale later in Europe when they can make the price more affordable.

This looks like just what I want for gaming at home, with the unexpected benefit of being portable enough to take out for demos, etc. Its also much nicer looking than I could make on my own.

I've heard people elsewhere suggest just buying a Ping-Pong table, instead. I had actually been considering this, but a ping pong table is 5x8 ft IIRC, which is too large for my gaming room at home. It also lacks the portability that this table has.

Looks like a great product and for the price I think I'm going to go ahead and pledge!

I just moved into a new apartment where space is at a premium. I'm definitely interested in this.

I am leary of kickstarter, but I think I will open my wallet for this one on the 7th or so of August.

This would be perfect for my needs, plus I can use it as a normal table, what a bonus!

We'll see if I get the cash to back though. Probably not but I'm keeping my hopes up

I love this idea and plan to back the KS.

To be clear. We want to get the domestic campaign done for domestic buyers. If you live outside of the US and want to see this product become a reality then please donate something. You can also go on our main page and email your contact information so that we can email you when the table is available for purchase in your country. We wanted to keep things simple despite missing out on some foreign customers.

We have negotiated with a warehouse in Europe. We will offer these tables from our website once they are available for purchase.

Thanks and keep telling your friends,

Joe

Semi-fold feature (stabilized for a 3' by 4' play surface)

Saw this on the campaign page.

How does that work?

Can you show a picture of it set up as a 3'x4'?

Thanks

Or better yet - a video going through all the "modes."

I like the idea of a straight 6x4 table folded like that. its awesome.

but my only gripe is the rounded corners.

 Desubot wrote:
I like the idea of a straight 6x4 table folded like that. its awesome.

but my only gripe is the rounded corners.

Yeah, if the corners are rounded with a lip, that may be a bit annoying to fit on tiles like you'd get from Secret Weapon's Tablescapes or a Realm of Battle.

 namiel wrote:
To me this just looks like a fancy folding table. Honestly I could get some piano hinges and cut up an 8x4 piece of plywood, attach some folding legs and have myself the same thing. All that would cost me about $25 at home depot and an hour of my time.

I don't see anything special about this table, not for $140 plus $35 in shipping.

Well, you're welcome to build your own, then.

$140 is well worth it for me, considering the time it would take to make something comparable on my own.

To be fair these aluminum ones are hella light

and if you have a bad back or have noodle arms it would be much easier to deal with than a nice chunky 4x8 1/2inch plywood with extra bits and bobs.

 cincydooley wrote:
$140 is well worth it for me, considering the time it would take to make something comparable on my own.

Agree, although keep in mind we are looking at 175 USD shipped.

 CptJake wrote:

Semi-fold feature (stabilized for a 3' by 4' play surface)

Saw this on the campaign page.

How does that work?

Can you show a picture of it set up as a 3'x4'?

Thanks

If I had to take a shot in the dark I'd guess the 2 end sections fold down as each would be 1.5'.

Looks like a really well designed table. $175 is certainly a fair price for a such a product. There are of course cheaper tables, but they aren't the precise size, usually don't fold quite as light and compact and are produced at much higher scale.

Not something I need since I've got enough space to slap some boards over my kitchen table when I need a big playing space and all my gaming friends have tables or space to set one up. Still, I wish you all the best of luck this is definitely a product that has been needed for a long time.

 Manchu wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
$140 is well worth it for me, considering the time it would take to make something comparable on my own.

Agree, although keep in mind we are looking at 175 USD shipped.

Fair. But even then, if that took me 5-6 hours to do, it's still well worth it based on the cost of time, etc.

I've been looking for a table like this forever. Next paycheck, I'm backing!

 Dr_Keenbean wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

Semi-fold feature (stabilized for a 3' by 4' play surface)

Saw this on the campaign page.

How does that work?

Can you show a picture of it set up as a 3'x4'?

Thanks

If I had to take a shot in the dark I'd guess the 2 end sections fold down as each would be 1.5'.

You're probably right, but I want to see it before I buy it.

Maybe offer a coupon to non-us backers?
I appreciate this product, and have backed (#25 I believe).
Only thing I'm worried about is the corners. I understand the reasons behind smoothing those (Safety, etc) but it is gaming space that you are losing (particularly if using a FAT mat).

Will non-US backers get the same reward offer shipped to them after release?

I'm interested in this, but I'm not throwing money into backing something that I won't get the stated reward for. I mean really, it's just pre-ordering so if I'm going to pre-order something I would expect to get what I pay for.

Looks great otherwise!

So I've never backed a Kickstarter, so sorry for the stupid question. If I back it, say $175 for one table shipped in the US, and it doesn't get funded...what happens?

Thanks!

Colonel187 wrote:
So I've never backed a Kickstarter, so sorry for the stupid question. If I back it, say $175 for one table shipped in the US, and it doesn't get funded...what happens?

Thanks!

If the Kickstarter flops, your money is refunded. It only bills you when it succeeds.

 metallifan wrote:
Will non-US backers get the same reward offer shipped to them after release?

I'm interested in this, but I'm not throwing money into backing something that I won't get the stated reward for. I mean really, it's just pre-ordering so if I'm going to pre-order something I would expect to get what I pay for.

Looks great otherwise!

We will be retailing this unit at higher pricing than kickstarter. The campaign is a way to save about 55.00 US. I wish I could say that we will open this up to our Canadian brothers up North but the postage is just brutal. It's about 80.00 more to send it across the border. About 178.00 to just ship it to the EU not to mention customs if any. We are working with a shipper currently to see the best we can offer the American continent, and our warehouse in the EU should solve the issue of EU buyers.

One of the reasons we thought up this concept was so that it doesn't cost you more than an army of miniatures. We're not shipping a small box, and you pay for bulky packages. Please stand by, we are trying to make this happen in your local democracy.

Best Regards,

Joe



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Colonel187 wrote:
So I've never backed a Kickstarter, so sorry for the stupid question. If I back it, say $175 for one table shipped in the US, and it doesn't get funded...what happens?

Thanks!

Greetings,

If we don't meet our goal by the time our campaign clock runs out nothing happens. Money is never pulled off your card and we run back to the drawing board. If the campaign goes through then for your donation we will ship you a finished unit once it arrives and settles on the domestic side.

Joe



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 Anpu-adom wrote:
Maybe offer a coupon to non-us backers?
I appreciate this product, and have backed (#25 I believe).
Only thing I'm worried about is the corners. I understand the reasons behind smoothing those (Safety, etc) but it is gaming space that you are losing (particularly if using a FAT mat).

I own several terrain mats so I did a comparison.
The corners of the mats are slightly sharper than the table.
The reason for the more rounded corners isn't as much of a safety issue as it is a structural issue. We want this thing to last a while.

The corners of the mats will cause you to loose about a quarter of an inch for about half an inch in rounding difference.

Also, we may end up making this thing 1 cm longer just to mitigate those corner issues.


Best Regards,

Joe

EmergencyPod wrote:

 metallifan wrote:
Will non-US backers get the same reward offer shipped to them after release?

I'm interested in this, but I'm not throwing money into backing something that I won't get the stated reward for. I mean really, it's just pre-ordering so if I'm going to pre-order something I would expect to get what I pay for.

Looks great otherwise!

We will be retailing this unit at higher pricing than kickstarter. The campaign is a way to save about 55.00 US. I wish I could say that we will open this up to our Canadian brothers up North but the postage is just brutal. It's about 80.00 more to send it across the border. About 178.00 to just ship it to the EU not to mention customs if any. We are working with a shipper currently to see the best we can offer the American continent, and our warehouse in the EU should solve the issue of EU buyers.

One of the reasons we thought up this concept was so that it doesn't cost you more than an army of miniatures. We're not shipping a small box, and you pay for bulky packages. Please stand by, we are trying to make this happen in your local democracy.

Best Regards,

Joe

Thanks for the quick reply. I understand all of that, but my question was "If I back this now, and donate say $175 US (Which is like $225 CAD), will that donation be discounted off my future purchase once cross border opens up?"

I'm interested in Kickstarter projects, but only if they offer me a benefit I'll get out of it. Just donating to "Make it happen" isn't quite enough. I don't think it's reasonable to expect people outside the US to shell out a table-worthy donation and then have to go back and buy one full price later on. That probably sounded more rude than I meant it. Really I'm just curious what my motivation as a potential non-US backer is?

 metallifan wrote:

Colonel187 wrote:
So I've never backed a Kickstarter, so sorry for the stupid question. If I back it, say $175 for one table shipped in the US, and it doesn't get funded...what happens?

Thanks!

If the Kickstarter flops, your money is refunded. It only bills you when it succeeds.

Actually, it is even better than that - the money only leaves your account IF the campaign is successful.

If not, it never does.

Which is one of the reasons why Kickstarter has it all over IndieGoGo...

 Alpharius wrote:

 metallifan wrote:

Colonel187 wrote:
So I've never backed a Kickstarter, so sorry for the stupid question. If I back it, say $175 for one table shipped in the US, and it doesn't get funded...what happens?

Thanks!

If the Kickstarter flops, your money is refunded. It only bills you when it succeeds.

Actually, it is even better than that - the money only leaves your account IF the campaign is successful.

If not, it never does.

Which is one of the reasons why Kickstarter has it all over IndieGoGo...

For clarity though, just because the kickstarter succeeds it doesn't guarantee when or even if you'll get your items.

Prodos, for example, has had 300 dollars of my money for well over 2 years and I have nothing.

This does not imply that this kickstarter won't deliver, I just wanted to inform the guy that it isn't risk free.

That is, of course, a VERY good point!

Kickstarter is absolutely 'caveat emptor' territory!

I'm interested in the extra 1cm in length to mitigate the overhang of a gaming mat. I'm following the campaign on Kickstarter now and that'd probably push me over the edge as I have a number of gaming mats I'd like to use.

@EmergencyPod
Have you considered making the table in 3 parts instead of 4 parts?

That way you can get a 4x4 and a 6x4.
A 4x4 playarea is much more common than a 3x4 for instance.

I know this would make the individual board pieces a bit bigger, and require more space in height rather than depths when storing, but I think it would still be a good trade-off.

Spiky Norman wrote:
@EmergencyPod
Have you considered making the table in 3 parts instead of 4 parts?

That way you can get a 4x4 and a 6x4.
A 4x4 playarea is much more common than a 3x4 for instance.

I know this would make the individual board pieces a bit bigger, and require more space in height rather than depths when storing, but I think it would still be a good trade-off.

Yeah a lot more games use 4' x 4' than 3' x anything.

Though I don't see how it could be made in 3 parts. 4 differently-sized (1' - 2' - 2' - 1) 'sections possibly.

Is it still stable with only 1 side up and 1 down? Making a 4.5' x 4' table?

 Dr_Keenbean wrote:
Yeah a lot more games use 4' x 4' than 3' x anything.

Though I don't see how it could be made in 3 parts. 4 differently-sized (1' - 2' - 2' - 1) 'sections possibly.

Is it still stable with only 1 side up and 1 down? Making a 4.5' x 4' table?

I was just thinking 3 parts each being 2x4, and each having a set of feet.
Basically a 4x4 in 2 parts, with an optional added 2x4 with its own feet. The third 2x4 could hang down at the end, if you're not using it, or get taken off, if they can make it detachable.

Of course if this board has a raised rim, then it's no good, as you would have a rim going through the middle (short way) of table.

Spiky Norman wrote:
@EmergencyPod
Have you considered making the table in 3 parts instead of 4 parts?

That way you can get a 4x4 and a 6x4.
A 4x4 playarea is much more common than a 3x4 for instance.

I know this would make the individual board pieces a bit bigger, and require more space in height rather than depths when storing, but I think it would still be a good trade-off.

4x4 would be a nice option, although the benefit to playing a 4x4 game on a 6 foot table is that you have 2 feet of extra space for rulebooks, dead piles, and so on.

Another question I have is are there any plans to make a 4 x 8 foldable table? I really like this table will probably support regardless. And are there any plans to make a version with not quite so round corners?

I must say that the positive feedback from dakkadakka is just wild. Thank you all so much for supporting us and sending all of your great suggestions. Please help us keep the fires burning. Even if it's a couple of bucks, anything helps and encourages us to develop new concepts.

Best Regards,

Joe
http://firmerterra.com/

Joe, can you give us a picture of the table set up as a 3' x 4'?

Thanks.

Superb idea, will buy if/'when it comes to Europe. $2 backer for now.

Lightweight aluminum for a frame is a superb idea and far exceeds what a typical DIY can do. As someone who has put together multiple tables, a durable, compact, folding table is not a trivial task and requires substantial time, skill, and tools. Not to mention it's not that cheap. Heck, a cheap plastic 6 ft split folding table will set you back over $100. So $140 for something that breaks down into multiple *usable* configurations, is less bulky and lighter seems like a solid deal.

Good luck on the kickstarter!

EmergencyPod wrote:


Also, we may end up making this thing 1 cm longer just to mitigate those corner issues.

I think that's a great idea - a slightly larger surface would also help with the corners on Realm of Battle or Tablescapes tiles, without making it substantially bigger. I like this idea!

Well if you make it something like a 1 foot longer, then there would be about 6" of space at the ends for things like dice and drinks.

 Desubot wrote:
Well if you make it something like a 1 foot longer, then there would be about 6" of space at the ends for things like dice and drinks.

Or create clip-on accessories to hold them.

So no answer on whether or not non-US backers get any post-release benefit to backing then?

Looks like a great product

 CptJake wrote:
Joe, can you give us a picture of the table set up as a 3' x 4'?

Thanks.

In case you missed the request...

 CptJake wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Joe, can you give us a picture of the table set up as a 3' x 4'?

Thanks.

In case you missed the request...

They do have a photo of the 3x4 set up in one of the KS updates. Not a great photo as it does not show the whole table, just the folded up sections and part of the open table area.

I like the idea of the 4X6 that can fold into 3 sections so you can also use it as a 4X4. It would be amazing if you could likewise fold that down into a 2-ft square for transportation or storage.

I also like the idea of having extra space for setting down books, drinks and the like - some sort of attachment (as an add-on extra) would be really keen. It would also be a feature that would make your product stand out from a store-bought solution.

 Stormonu wrote:
I like the idea of the 4X6 that can fold into 3 sections so you can also use it as a 4X4. It would be amazing if you could likewise fold that down into a 2-ft square for transportation or storage.

I also like the idea of having extra space for setting down books, drinks and the like - some sort of attachment (as an add-on extra) would be really keen. It would also be a feature that would make your product stand out from a store-bought solution.

I don't think the table really needs to break down to play 4x4, or any size smaller than the size it is. Just mark off the end and then use the extra space for books/dice/etc.

How does a FAT Mat fit on this?

or two of these in the UK http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4FT-6FT-Aluminum-Foldable-Collapsible-Tables-folding-Camping-Table-legs-/351707815383

I tried those tables as one of the first alternatives. There is a reason they are so much cheaper. And I also discovered 6 ft is not really 6 ft.

 mdauben wrote:

 CptJake wrote:

 CptJake wrote:
Joe, can you give us a picture of the table set up as a 3' x 4'?

Thanks.

In case you missed the request...

They do have a photo of the 3x4 set up in one of the KS updates. Not a great photo as it does not show the whole table, just the folded up sections and part of the open table area.

Thanks. Picture does not show the whole thing, just a portion, but it looks like one end is unfolded while the other end hangs on one side. Different than what I pictured.




The worry comes from update 3:

After discussion with another engineer we recommend using the table in its full 6x4 configuration. There should be no problems using it in the semi-fold configuration but the table is designed to be used completely unfolded.

 CptJake wrote:



The worry comes from update 3:

After discussion with another engineer we recommend using the table in its full 6x4 configuration. There should be no problems using it in the semi-fold configuration but the table is designed to be used completely unfolded.

I would guess because of the lightweight alumnum frame, when it's partially folded, if you hit the folded leaf hard enough (say with a knee) you can torque the table enough to damage the hinges or frame itself. Probably not an issue for home use, but not the best configuration around crowds.

The worry is probably a balance issue. with a lot of weight on one side could tip over.

 Desubot wrote:
The worry is probably a balance issue. with a lot of weight on one side could tip over.

That was my guess based on the picture.


Won't be an issue for everyone, but I know I would likely use it at least half the time in the small configuration due to space in the current house.

Cool idea, but its pricey. I recently went to a hardware store and found a plastic fold up table, 4x6, with a handle and everything for around $30.

 Snoopdeville3 wrote:
Cool idea, but its pricey. I recently went to a hardware store and found a plastic fold up table, 4x6, with a handle and everything for around $30.

i dont think i have ever seen a 4x6 straight up folding table.

certainly 2x6 or 2x4 tables but not a full 4x6

thats interesting.


EDIT yeah sorry not exactly 2x wide ussually wider as two +a 6x4 plywood on top ususally has extra space on the sides.

We have one that is 29 inches across, and that seemed about the widest I've found for a table that long.

 Snoopdeville3 wrote:
Cool idea, but its pricey. I recently went to a hardware store and found a plastic fold up table, 4x6, with a handle and everything for around $30.

Yeah, also calling BS on that. Most folding tables aren't 4 x 6, they're usually 3 x 6 give or take a few inches. And they are usually around $40-$50 for plastic. This is aluminum and would be much smaller folded up and much lighter.

I'll be keeping an eye on the KS. These days, I don't really play any games that are on 4 x 6, but it's still an awesome concept!

 CptJake wrote:

The worry comes from update 3:

After discussion with another engineer we recommend using the table in its full 6x4 configuration. There should be no problems using it in the semi-fold configuration but the table is designed to be used completely unfolded.

Eh, I don't really foresee using the table in a 4x3 format anyway. I think all my games are played on either 4x6 or 4x4 mats, so for the smaller one I'd still use the full table and just employ the left over space for rulebooks, drinks, or whatever else I need while playing.

 Ozymandias wrote:

 Snoopdeville3 wrote:
Cool idea, but its pricey. I recently went to a hardware store and found a plastic fold up table, 4x6, with a handle and everything for around $30.

Yeah, also calling BS on that. Most folding tables aren't 4 x 6, they're usually 3 x 6 give or take a few inches. And they are usually around $40-$50 for plastic. This is aluminum and would be much smaller folded up and much lighter.

I'll be keeping an eye on the KS. These days, I don't really play any games that are on 4 x 6, but it's still an awesome concept!

Lol call BS all you want guess how much I care.

 Snoopdeville3 wrote:

 Ozymandias wrote:

 Snoopdeville3 wrote:
Cool idea, but its pricey. I recently went to a hardware store and found a plastic fold up table, 4x6, with a handle and everything for around $30.

Yeah, also calling BS on that. Most folding tables aren't 4 x 6, they're usually 3 x 6 give or take a few inches. And they are usually around $40-$50 for plastic. This is aluminum and would be much smaller folded up and much lighter.

I'll be keeping an eye on the KS. These days, I don't really play any games that are on 4 x 6, but it's still an awesome concept!

Lol call BS all you want guess how much I care.

You always could just show us the brand name or pictures

If you don't care, then don't post in the thread. Definitely don't post a message which really only says "I don't care" instead of adding to the topic. Let's keep this on topic, thanks

 CptJake wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
The worry is probably a balance issue. with a lot of weight on one side could tip over.

That was my guess based on the picture.


Won't be an issue for everyone, but I know I would likely use it at least half the time in the small configuration due to space in the current house.

In my situation, I'll easily be able to either have it completely folded out or up against a wall to prevent torquing things.
I'm so excited for this.

I wish we had 6x4 fold ups for that price. I spent 3 months calling domestic manufacturers and factories with no luck. Local assembly gets most of its plastics from overseas, and they just couldn't be bothered with a surface configurations that some people wanted and no one else cared about. The problem is with the width of the table and the dining room L to W ratio. Believe it or not, even a plastic table made for a patio or meeting room is built around a dining room ratio and a 2 to 3 ratio doesn't work at all.

US only!? Noooooo!

This is a pretty great idea though, especially at that price.

Pretty sure one of the European gaming mat suppliers already does a 6'x4' folding table.

Found it

http://www.gamemat.eu/our-products/folding-board/6-x4-g-board-deal-including-g-mat/en/

Yeah, the closest thing that I can find with a fairly quick Google search is some 2x4, folding aluminum picnic tables. I suppose you could buy three of those at $29/each but they wouldn't be as portable (actually maybe a bit more because you could stack them) but it would create a play surface that wouldn't be level, even after throwing a mat on it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Folding-Table-4-Portable-Plastic-Indoor-Outdoor-Picnic-Party-Camp-Tables-/272213694516?hash=item3f61335834:g:x8gAAOSw14xXEeoQ

I think you're just proving that the kickstarter is sorely needed, considering all the discussion for alternatives that always seems to be more of a hassle and the home build option cheap option seems to lack the combined portability and lightweight.
I pledged 5$ as a donation! I reeeally want this KS to succeed. ^^

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Pretty sure one of the European gaming mat suppliers already does a 6'x4' folding table.

Found it

http://www.gamemat.eu/our-products/folding-board/6-x4-g-board-deal-including-g-mat/en/

Doesn't ship to the US :(

EmergencyPod wrote:
... And I also discovered 6 ft is not really 6 ft.

That's what she said...

 metallifan wrote:
So no answer on whether or not non-US backers get any post-release benefit to backing then?

You won't. He said that, along with "please consider donating" - which is what any monies you pledge will be as you won't receive any product.

Will you ship to Hawaii? I just moved to Hawaii and I'm very interested.

just for reference there is G-Board 6'x4'portable gaming table from http://www.gamemat.eu/ shipping was so far only within Europe. But working out on USa/Can shipping.
Table are now sold out and being done - will be ready for pre0orders soon and shipping starts 5th September

(Deleted. Project's legit. fwiw, I contacted World Outdoor Products, and Firmer Terra have the okay to use WOP's photos on a similar, but not the same, product.)

ced1106 wrote:
(Deleted. Project's legit. fwiw, I contacted World Outdoor Products, and Firmer Terra have the okay to use WOP's photos on a similar, but not the same, product.)

We are not associated with WOP.

I see many folks are suspicious of Kickstarter in general. That's perfectly understandable.

The KS campaign is a way for me to offer this table at a discount since I will not have to warehouse a bunch of hardware.

Best Regards,

Joe

I never would have guessed a folding table would be this controversial.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
I never would have guessed a folding table would be this controversial.

Wargaming would be great without the wargamers.

And threads would be great if everyone stayed polite - and kept on topic too!

Any recommendations for a mat that would fit nicely on this table, specifically?

I've recently decided I'm done with tiles. It's all folding tables and mats in my future. Hooray convenience.

This looks like a really solid idea/project. Not much competition in this area as well.

The only holdouts I have (I am thinking on backing for four tables) is the price of shipping, overall stability of the table while gaming, and how a neoprene mat (such as the F.A.T Mats or Micro Arts Studios ones) fit on it.

I would love to see a demonstration of perhaps folks leaning on it, or bumping it, as well as one with a mat on it to see overlap if any.

Pretty cool project!

yeah the only thing holding me back aside from funds is I would like to see a "torture test" of sorts.

How the table stands up to two fully metal armies, how it handles being bumped, how stable is it in 3x4 mode, how does it hold up if water or something spills on it, etc. etc.

I dont expect it to be able to hold 800lbs or something (in fact, it would be cool to see the actual breaking point even if its only 50lbs or so) I just like to know what kind of table it is before I buy it.

Believe it or not, I would use this for a variety of things, not just wargaming. As I live in a tight space, itd be nice to have a true "dining table" that folds up quite small for when I dont have company over.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:


Believe it or not, I would use this for a variety of things, not just wargaming. As I live in a tight space, itd be nice to have a true "dining table" that folds up quite small for when I dont have company over.

We used to have a big 'formal' dining table we gave away to Son2 and his bride when they got married and we moved to a MUCH smaller house. Our kitchen table (where we typically ate at the old house) is now my work computer desk (also gave my old computer dest to Son2) and we actually use a 6ft x 30inch folding table as our current dinner table... It initially was going to be my work desk but proved too unstable for the monitors and stuff I need for work.

Would totally have backed this if it was available to ship to Canada. I would have paid the shipping no problem. Mistake in your product launch for sure.

Backed, looks like a good idea to me!

Jayjayphoto wrote:
Would totally have backed this if it was available to ship to Canada. I would have paid the shipping no problem. Mistake in your product launch for sure.

Hopefully we'll get this launched (We are close). Then he'll do an International Launch.

Your missing a real Market in UK/Europe.

Most never have dedicated gaming spaces and tables.

 jhe90 wrote:
Your missing a real Market in UK/Europe.

Most never have dedicated gaming spaces and tables.

Not really missing that market. Shipping to the UK and continental Europe would be massively expensive, ruining the value of the product. Add in, any shipping solution is likely to result in at least some damaged product the buyers would want the company to replace and overseas is a non-starter. Products like this really need to be either manufactured in bulk (thousands of units) or manufactured close to the market to be economically feasible.

If there is a Euro market for this, a Euro company is best positioned to take advantage of that market.

 CptJake wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
Your missing a real Market in UK/Europe.

Most never have dedicated gaming spaces and tables.

Not really missing that market. Shipping to the UK and continental Europe would be massively expensive, ruining the value of the product. Add in, any shipping solution is likely to result in at least some damaged product the buyers would want the company to replace and overseas is a non-starter. Products like this really need to be either manufactured in bulk (thousands of units) or manufactured close to the market to be economically feasible.

If there is a Euro market for this, a Euro company is best positioned to take advantage of that market.

One in Europe already has. The link is above.

 CptJake wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:
Your missing a real Market in UK/Europe.

Most never have dedicated gaming spaces and tables.

Not really missing that market. Shipping to the UK and continental Europe would be massively expensive, ruining the value of the product. Add in, any shipping solution is likely to result in at least some damaged product the buyers would want the company to replace and overseas is a non-starter. Products like this really need to be either manufactured in bulk (thousands of units) or manufactured close to the market to be economically feasible.

If there is a Euro market for this, a Euro company is best positioned to take advantage of that market.

Indeed, not all businesses are a global one.
that being said if this one does well and he can raise the funds to partner up in the uk or start a branch out there for distribution then im sure he could get the ball rolling.

Any plans to sell in the UK? I'd have backed the ks if it weren't US only.

JamesY wrote:Any plans to sell in the UK? I'd have backed the ks if it weren't US only.

That really is the theme of this thread. Shipping to the UK from the US is prohibitively expensive for a bulky object like this. There are plans for UK distribution once the product has been produced.

EmergencyPod wrote:

ced1106 wrote:
(Deleted. Project's legit. fwiw, I contacted World Outdoor Products, and Firmer Terra have the okay to use WOP's photos on a similar, but not the same, product.)

We are not associated with WOP.

I see many folks are suspicious of Kickstarter in general. That's perfectly understandable.

The KS campaign is a way for me to offer this table at a discount since I will not have to warehouse a bunch of hardware.

Best Regards,

Joe

I'm not particular suspicious of Kickstarter in general, but I am a bit suspicious of this project for a few reasons. I find it disingenuous that it's presented as though you are designing the table from the ground up, when it appears that you are commissioning a pre-existing product in an increased width. If you were upfront about this in the first place, there would be no need to carefully frame the videos in order to hide what I can only assume is a 32" wide table. There's nothing wrong with taking an existing product and modifying it, but the lacklustre campaign and misleading language come across as sketchy to me.

I just got an email that this has been suspended.

Great.

Any word on the gamemat.eu table shipping to the US?

Why has it been suspended?

From the email:

A review of the project uncovered evidence that it broke Kickstarter's rules. We may suspend projects when they demonstrate one or more of the following:

Offering purchased items and claiming to have made them yourself

Presenting someone else’s work as your own

Misrepresenting or failing to disclose relevant facts about the project or its creator

SUSPENDED

Good grief... I am sick to my stomach. I am trying to resolve this with Kickstarter directly but I think the damage has been done.

Someone accused us of reselling an item or not making this item myself.

This surface spec was designed by us. The added structural changes were designed by us. The ALPHA Game Table did not exist and does not exist. But Netdetectives saw pictures and began formulating a conspiracy theory.

We were hoping to use Kickstarter as a launching pad for an order and a retool to be able to provide these tables.

Netdetectives couldn't help but try to solve a mystery that was not there because they found a folding table on amazon... YAY congratulations.

They assumed that we were working with a famous company that has this type of design (not the specs). WE are not associated with them in anyway for the last time. But Netdetectives had to be right. So as of today my campaign was suspended pending review, but that doesn't matter because most backers will be spooked and it's probably an irreversible decision. Meaning that I have lost considerable money in advertising and promotion.

This whole project was so that we could get some tables to play on; that is our gaming group. Factories don't like to deal with you if you're ordering 5 or 10 units. In fact they laugh at you. The cost to retool benders (that is pipe bending machines) and cutters is large. Especially when you're making an out of spec surface like 6x4 feet. So we figured lets let the kickstarter community decide if we should have these tables or not. If we can muster up 200 units then we all win. Things were going great... I was probably going to deliver these before Thanksgiving. We are using a very competent company that has legs abroad and here. This was promising to be smooth sailing. Then the Netdetectives arrived. A conspiracy was formed.... and now I'm sitting here sick to my stomach.

My alternative is to just fork over money from a loan and just order them anyway and slowly sell them off a retail website.

I just don't know right now. One giant miscommunication...

What do you all think? Did I do anything unethical... I mean I didn't disclose my broker or the factory responsible for making the product, but I shouldn't have to disclose every fact. This is a business after all, and I do have the right to protect some information... But the Netdetectives smelled a conspiracy and they wouldn't quit until they found or created one... Right now, I just don't know. This was supposed to be quick simple and happy project... We were finally going to have a table where we could play in any room, or anyplace around the house. now I get to start all over in best case scenario...

I feel defeated... Like I just walked out of a car accident. And I still can't help feel as if maybe I did something wrong. Please elaborate for me.

Joe
Firmerterra.com

Prodos got away with blatant plagiarism, hiding their identity, setting up a fake US based company (not to mention lying to KS themselves to get the AvP page taken down) and so on, yet they were allowed to continue and fund LOAD on KS.


Seems KS ought to give you the benefit of the doubt.

 CptJake wrote:
Prodos got away with blatant plagiarism, hiding their identity, setting up a fake US based company (not to mention lying to KS themselves to get the AvP page taken down) and so on, yet they were allowed to continue and fund LOAD on KS.


Seems KS ought to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah, I would have appreciated at least a dialogue between KS. I mean we had 15 days before the end of the campaign, and another 10 days before they dispatched funds. What would have been the issue with just writing an email and requesting an explanation within 24 hours?

I'm still going to go ahead with the order. I'm still going to go ahead with selling this.

It's just that I have to start all over. And earn everyone's trust again. And of course the hundreds of thousands of people that found me on FB will never click again... so it's just plain sadness.

Not sure what problem is.

Didn' anyone else see this on page 3? Its already out there.

Sad news. Unfortunately seems to be the way of the internet. Seems the least KS or the "offended" party could have done was a bit of Q&A to even determine something was amiss.

Good luck with getting this out, EmergencyPod.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CircleKing wrote:
Not sure what problem is.

Didn' anyone else see this on page 3? Its already out there.

$231 shipped to the US. If $82 shipping is your thing, be my guest.

CircleKing wrote:
Not sure what problem is.

Didn' anyone else see this on page 3? Its already out there.

This is not the same design bud....

CircleKing wrote:
Not sure what problem is.

Didn' anyone else see this on page 3? Its already out there.

Another company doing a similar product isn't the same. It's the same dimensions, but doesn't have that extra fold to pack up as tight, and is being made and distributed by a different company.

All I can say to you at Terrafirma is to talk to Kickstarter and make a case for yourself. This campaign was already much of the way there; hopefully if things work out you can make it all the way.

CircleKing wrote:
Not sure what problem is.

Didn' anyone else see this on page 3? Its already out there.

A 4'x3' folded footprint has no real benefit for storage. a 1.5'x4 footprint' can be stored easily in the side of a closet.

EmergencyPod wrote:
Did I do anything unethical

I replied on the Reaper thread, but, while *you* didn't do anything unethical, plenty of other KS did, by using existing photos and artwork from other sources and not stating they had permission. Since you did the same thing, KS did the lazy thing and pulled the project.

As for "net detectives", don't play the victim card. These "net detectives" are the same people who look out for backers to avoid their money from disappearing. If you don't provide the information backers need (including biographies and project experience of your project team), backers can't properly assess the risk of the project. From a backer's point of view, KS is nothing but strangers asking you for money. You need to turn yourself from a stranger to someone who can be trusted.

I don't see a time-critical deadline, so resolve this issue with KS (that may take awhile) then relaunch. While waiting, get a newsletter started (eg. contact your FaceBook supporters). If you can get a prototype, computer design picture, etc. made, all the better. See if there are other similar KS projects and use them as models of how to present your project, perhaps even contacting the creators for advice and assistance.

I've invested into several KS projects. Some of them years ago, and I'm still waiting to hear back.

Honestly, I did not pick up on the level of suspicion.

I am appealing the situation to KS, but as it stands now I think KS has a policy of no response no correction.

So my choices are to reattempt a KS, go to Indiegogo, or to just serve the gaming community through a retail website directly.

What do you all think?

Joe

I think you've got to fully address all the comments and worries, even if it means disclosing far more business info than you feel you should have to

Hopefully KS will respond that they're satsifed with the info you've provided them and you'll either be able to continue there or to relaunch (which might be better)

Indiegogo generates far more suspicion than KS (partly because its smaller, partly as it's seen as European rather than American by American backers, partly as it does allow 'begging' projects and partly it allows flexible funding where the project creator keeps the cash and tries to fulfil things even if the funding target isn't hit)

so I think any attempt to move to indiegogo will not be popular (and will probably lead the the people who reported you to KS reporting you to indiegogo too)


as for going straight to retail only you know whether you'd be able to afford the minimum order (and storage for the minimum order as you wouldn't be able to plan to get a significant number out of the door soon after delivery). A few thousand minis are bad enough to find space for in your house/garage, a few thousand tables even if they do fold up is probably going to be impossible to live with

If you opt to go straight to retail is there going to be any kind of priority given to backers? Because I know I was one of the very first. Though I'd rather you just get in touch with Kickstarter and get this sorted out.

Oh man that's awful. I was so excited for this. I really really hope you can get this off the ground again! Best of luck man, and I'll be keeping an eye here for the relaunch or retail site or whatever you do.

So yesterday was filled with emotion, mainly rage and sadness. Today we get back to being calm and collected. I have already posted on FB our company stance. Firmerterra.com now has an email sign up to keep you posted when the tables arrive.

That being said. I am dismayed at the turn of events yesterday. I bear no ill will towards the "Netdetectives", I'm sure you were only looking out for the interests of the flock and you had no malice intended in your actions. I blame my-self for that because I elected to respond to everyone via message instead of posting a blanket explanation or update. I bear no ill will towards KS, I'm sure they were looking to maintain the integrity of their community. I do not agree with their decision but it is their prerogative to do what they did and therefore I support it.

I am appealing the decision, at least to the point where they will let us run another, shorter, campaign in the future.

Now, since this is a product for the community, and essentially it was funded by the community I think it's only fair that the community decides what happens next.

[1] We can appeal KS and try to relaunch.
[2] We can explore other funding sites like Indiegogo
[3] We move straight to retail

You all tell me what you think is best, or just email me and let me know your thoughts.

To our EU customers, we are still on track to fulfill this order and then fill up a warehouse in Poland for distribution.

To our Canadian friends, we are working on a drop shipper somewhere in the Maple Leaf to get these units to you as efficiently as possible.

Yesterday I was broken. It took my kids to remind me that this isn't a bread and butter project, it's a project that was supposed to be fun and result in having even more enjoyment out of a hobby (and community) that I have come to keep close to my heart. Today, we are moving full steam ahead. I will be playing on this table by the holidays barring a sinkhole accident or lightning strike (both seeming probable at this time due to recent experiences).

What do you all think?

If you can go straight to retail that would be my choice.

Wait, so the Netdetectives just made a bunch of slowed assumptions and instead of taking your word and evidence, had Kickstarter pull the project?

I signed up for an email notification when you start selling them through your website. This board will be very convenient for me.

Best of luck!

 judgedoug wrote:
Wait, so the Netdetectives just made a bunch of slowed assumptions and instead of taking your word and evidence, had Kickstarter pull the project?

That's the way it seems. Although I cannot tell you for sure because I do not want to jump to conclusions.

Sucks, but that is the way it is. Chin up and move forward.

Thank you all for the words of encouragement.

EmergencyPod wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Wait, so the Netdetectives just made a bunch of slowed assumptions and instead of taking your word and evidence, had Kickstarter pull the project?

That's the way it seems. Although I cannot tell you for sure because I do not want to jump to conclusions.

Sucks, but that is the way it is. Chin up and move forward.

Thank you all for the words of encouragement.

Well that puts you light-years ahead of the unasked-for internet nanny who did exactly that and may well have screwed me out of a gaming table that would fit my needs to the letter.

Man that smarts, I hope you guys can come back from it! For what it's worth, if you decide to start the project anew elsewhere and include Canadian and Mexican donators for the rewards program or offer a discount off the finished project equal to their donation size, I'd be all over it!

Best of luck to you guys! You'll find no shortage of buyers for a 6x4 folding if you make it, and make it well!

Nothing like getting kicked in the face to make you step back and reevaluate everything

hopefully you take it all in stride and come back better and stronger.

still hoping you change all the edges to squares to fit matts and Realm of battle boards better.

I have a question if that's ok.

You mention a prototype a lot and you have a video of your daughter putting a table up (well just the legs) and photos of the semi fold etc.

Is that actually a protoype that you have built for your table or is it just one of the tables from the other company?

EmergencyPod wrote:
So yesterday was filled with emotion, mainly rage and sadness. Today we get back to being calm and collected. I have already posted on FB our company stance. Firmerterra.com now has an email sign up to keep you posted when the tables arrive.

That being said. I am dismayed at the turn of events yesterday. I bear no ill will towards the "Netdetectives", I'm sure you were only looking out for the interests of the flock and you had no malice intended in your actions. I blame my-self for that because I elected to respond to everyone via message instead of posting a blanket explanation or update. I bear no ill will towards KS, I'm sure they were looking to maintain the integrity of their community. I do not agree with their decision but it is their prerogative to do what they did and therefore I support it.

I am appealing the decision, at least to the point where they will let us run another, shorter, campaign in the future.

Now, since this is a product for the community, and essentially it was funded by the community I think it's only fair that the community decides what happens next.

[1] We can appeal KS and try to relaunch.
[2] We can explore other funding sites like Indiegogo
[3] We move straight to retail

You all tell me what you think is best, or just email me and let me know your thoughts.

To our EU customers, we are still on track to fulfill this order and then fill up a warehouse in Poland for distribution.

To our Canadian friends, we are working on a drop shipper somewhere in the Maple Leaf to get these units to you as efficiently as possible.

Yesterday I was broken. It took my kids to remind me that this isn't a bread and butter project, it's a project that was supposed to be fun and result in having even more enjoyment out of a hobby (and community) that I have come to keep close to my heart. Today, we are moving full steam ahead. I will be playing on this table by the holidays barring a sinkhole accident or lightning strike (both seeming probable at this time due to recent experiences).

What do you all think?

Retail will be a slower but more sustainable approach, in my inexpert opinion. Sure, crowdfunding gives you an immediate boost in funds and you know you have at least a certain number of sales but there are intrinsic issues as well (shipping woes, production delays, disgruntled backers due to the previously mentioned delays slagging your name all over the internet).

Good luck.

Well, crap. I was gonna get 4 of these from the kickstarter. The price was right. No way will I be getting these now. I like them a lot and want them, but I do have access to a full wood and metals shop. As well as the materials. What I can make myself won't be light or as portable, but will be cheaper. The kickstarter offered the tables at the right price for me. Sad this happened. Best of luck to you. Hopefully you will be able to eventually offer the tables at the kickstarter product+shipping price.

I'm so sorry that people took it upon themselves to police a well intended project and destroyed it. I'm also sorry that there's no way for you to update or tell people that it was unjust.

Chin up, and you have one UK buyer here.

I picked up two folding tables from Target that collapse up fairly thin and combine to make a 6'x5' surface. Corners are round, but it did the job for a third of the price. Just saying.

EmergencyPod wrote:
Honestly, I did not pick up on the level of suspicion.

Well, I *did* contact you and tell you you should have explained why the photos looked just like those by an Amazon seller, but you didn't, and this is what happened.

Another yellow flag is that you did not tell us anything about the creators of this project, which I also pointed out in my letter to you. That's the same behavior scammers have used in the past.

Is there a better way of helping you pick up on the level of suspicion besides telling you directly???

Here're some other KS table projects you can study and steal ideas from. If at all possible (and I'm not sure if it is for a steel table), show pics of a prototype. Can you get a loan for a prototype to be made?
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=kickstarter+table

There's a good reason why "net detectives" do this. The reason is that there have been scams that used artwork from other sources. Also, if a company uses another company's artwork on their final product without permission, and the other company takes legal action, the *backers* may not receive the final product. There's at least one video game with stolen artwork, and I know of a game tile KS that did this as well. Here's the video game: http://observer.com/2012/04/this-is-what-a-kickstarter-scam-looks-like/

SO WE ARE BACK!

Instead of relaunching on Kickstarter we spent a few months vetting the entire campaign with the folks at Indiegogo. After they gave us full approval we have launched the funder campign.

Some changes since last time:

[1] We spent the money and retooled and purchased an expensive prototype
[2] The table you see in the video is the ALPHA Game Table and not a functional model
[3] We are running the campaign to mail out the tables as soon as they are inspected and warehoused.
[4] This is the best chance at getting an ALPHA in your hands before the holidays.

We have tested, and retested this prototype and we are getting great feedback. It's lightweight, it's strong, and it's small when folded away.

Hooray Table.

Goto firmerterra.com for the link to the campaign.

We also predict selling a limited amount of these from our site, but later on and without the price break.

[b]Also, please please please spread the word. We pretty much blew our budget on marketing last time, and we will NOT be increasing the prices to remain true to the initial promise.

I saw they started to make these. Anyone buy one? Are they any good?