So, all of these are actual people I've had to deal with in the last 2/3 years, and a few from long before.

1- The guy that brings his Warhound Titan to the store, and sits it down in front of him and gloats that no one has 'the balls' to go up against him. Sorry, Jack- the rest of us would rather throw money into an army so we can find people who will play a game with us.

2- The guy that doesn't shower/bathe. I've said it a thousand times: If you find yourself wondering if you should take a shower, the answer is: WASH YOUR ASS.

3- The Proxy-Master that doesn't WYSIWYG at all. Sorry, I can't remember which one of these armless torsos is supposed to be the guy with a heavy bolter and I'm not going to just let you dictate that once you start taking casualties. Go get some glue and bits or borrow a model.

4- The guy that doesn't play 40k any more, shows up to talk about how much he hates 40k now, and generally spends no money or does nothing but gripe.

5- The kid born in 1997 that talks about how 'awesome' squats were.

6- The Crusader for the Autistic guy. Look, I have zero problems with the Autistic Guy, it's not his fault, and I don't ridicule him. But I'm not going to play with someone that punches themselves in the head and starts screaming over a bad dice roll, and I'm not going to have some guy telling me how I should feel bad for the Autistic Guy and play with him. It's pretty hard to guilt-trip me, and my personal comfort comes first.

7- The guy that rags on you when you concede the game, because it is mathematically/logistically impossible for you to win. Sorry, dude- other people want to use the tables and I'm not going to spend another hour letting you blast my dudes to death when you have a 5-point lead.

8- The guy that doesn't have a Codex (in any shape, form, or fashion) but wants to play against you. No.

10- The Guy that paid double for a professionally painted army, because he can't paint- and talks trash about how bad other peoples' armies look.

I can see several of those combining into one monster.

The guy that brings his cheesiest list against the new player.

 Orlanth wrote:
I can see several of those combining into one monster.

#3 and #8 are the same guy already. Dude constantly shows up with incomplete models, and loads of them are 'proxies'. These aren't 'old' or 'secondhand' models, so the excuse that he's saving money is out the window. These are genuinely boxes of armless random dudes, very new, and the guy claims he knows his rolls and rules, and never has a Codex.

Oh hey, I've got another one!

The dude that claims to have 10 things, but shows up with 9.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Oh hey, I've got another one!

The dude that claims to have 10 things, but shows up with 9.

BURN!!!!

 JNAProductions wrote:
Oh hey, I've got another one!

The dude that claims to have 10 things, but shows up with 9.

Yeah, but he's a great guy and has a heart of gold. Also, I hear he is well-endowed and good with the ladies.

And to be honest, I had to spread them out and split guy 3/8, because 'one particular guy' is probably a bit too loaded to discuss here.

Yeah, from the about two posts of yours I've read, you seem like a good guy. So no worries-all in good humour.

That dude who insists he has superior tactics and uses lists off the internet of the current flavour of the month.

Bonus points if:

He shows up with a new army every time a codex is released (double bonus points if it's made up entirely of the new release and none of it's painted)

Blames the dice when they fail him, but tells you to suck it up whenever you have a bad roll.

Hides portions of the rules from you/outright lies about rules.

Insist this is a game of pure skill and only idiots lose.

Calls you a cheater if you win.



I have met one person like this. He insists on a rematch because my win must have been a fluke since i was using World Eater Khorne Berserkers against his tau gunline (battlesuits and all), especially since my dreadnoughts had 1 less HP than they should have. (I was new to 6th edition and so he told me all of my vehicles had 1 or 2 hull points, this is after I asked if we could play 5th edition because I didn't have the new rules yet. No he did not bring the rulebook with him).

The stupid thing was he used the argument that my dreadnoughts had 1 less hull point as a reason why my win was a fluke, since I was playing with a handicap and thus he was playing with an objectively stronger army. When I mentioned that I only had that handicap because he told me the wrong info and wouldn't let me see the book, his face turned white and then the club president kicked him out.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
That dude who insists he has superior tactics and uses lists off the internet of the current flavour of the month.

Bonus points if:

He shows up with a new army every time a codex is released (double bonus points if it's made up entirely of the new release and none of it's painted)

Blames the dice when they fail him, but tells you to suck it up whenever you have a bad roll.

Hides portions of the rules from you/outright lies about rules.

Insist this is a game of pure skill and only idiots lose.

Calls you a cheater if you win.

I'll raise you one: Same guy, almost- but he claims Forge World models aren't 'legal'. My friend plays 30k and 40k, and like myself he uses a lot of Heresy-Era Marines as his Chaos Marines. A lot of his things like Rhinos are the Forge World variants. He actually had some guy trying to get him removed from a tournament because he does this, and it was a dude that went out the day the new Rubrics dropped and bought them all out with the Traitor Legions supplement.

Players who.....

1. Insist on total WYSIWYG for you, but not for themselves.

2. Play the shell game over damaged transports, and are evasive as to which contains the tooled up command squad.

3. Decide that one is cocked dice if it is partly on a piece of thin card, but a six is stable even if its teetering at 45 degrees.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
That dude who insists he has superior tactics and uses lists off the internet of the current flavour of the month.

Bonus points if:

He shows up with a new army every time a codex is released (double bonus points if it's made up entirely of the new release and none of it's painted)

Blames the dice when they fail him, but tells you to suck it up whenever you have a bad roll.

Hides portions of the rules from you/outright lies about rules.

Insist this is a game of pure skill and only idiots lose.

Calls you a cheater if you win.

I'll raise you one: Same guy, almost- but he claims Forge World models aren't 'legal'. My friend plays 30k and 40k, and like myself he uses a lot of Heresy-Era Marines as his Chaos Marines. A lot of his things like Rhinos are the Forge World variants. He actually had some guy trying to get him removed from a tournament because he does this, and it was a dude that went out the day the new Rubrics dropped and bought them all out with the Traitor Legions supplement.

I can see this being real popular with organisers, people who drop a massive amount of money on Forgeworld being targeted for arbitrary bans has potential to piss off GW.

1. Guy who has no people skills, who moves stools more toward the middle of the hobbying table (and into other people's personal space), and when he talks, he crowds further into people's bubbles

2. a pair who blatantly were sexually harassing an employee/customer over a period of time.

3. Numerous examples of "dude who doesn't understand what soap is when showering"

4. Guy who gets a pre-order in before it goes sold out, and then repeatedly tells everyone the he got it, including a spell of about 10 solid minutes of just repeating the same thing over and over and over again.

5. Dude who's got some issues who yells at his models while buidling them, has conversations with himself, quotes entire TV episodes to himself, and all simultaneously does not know the manager's name (he keeps calling the manager by a name that most definitely isn't theirs)

The guy that puts his food and gak all over the table top while playing

The guy who likes to narrate his game at a Megadeth concert volume level.

The guy who takes over a fething hour to just sort out his army's models for a game from the giant plastic tub it's all dumped in.

 BigWaaagh wrote:
The guy that puts his food and gak all over the table top while playing

The guy who likes to narrate his game at a Megadeth concert volume level.

The guy who takes over a fething hour to just sort out his army's models for a game from the giant plastic tub it's all dumped in.

The guy who takes 40 minutes to set up because 8th ed warhammer vampire count armies were mostly zombies...wait a minute thats me

Sadly I am on the list. I just moved across country and went to the closest FLGS. Brought my standard list. Trounced the guy. He made the remark it was a bit to competitive for the local. Started looking at other tables. Sure enough I see a ton of fluffy list and just stuff thrown together list. I went from a weekly tourney meta to Fluffland. *face palm* Got to rework my Dark Angels to something not so....Brutal

The Backseat Gamer.

Absolutely no issue with a buddy up when we're showing a less experienced hobbyist the ropes - such games are usually pre-arranged.

Again, no issue at all where games have a GM.

Pointing stuff out to them after they've fallen into my trap? Cool.

Basically playing the game for them, without their request? Just sod off somewhere else. You want to play me, arrange a game. But don't stand their having read through my list and rattle off what I'm up to. It's rude to me, and insulting my opponent's intelligence.

The Top Dog

You're not. Not even close. This isn't your store. This isn't your club. Wind you neck in and let others be about their business. I'm pretty sure nobody cares about your W/L/D ratio, a strong hint of which is no-one else bothering to keep track. I'm equally sure nobody particularly cares if their list is 'sub-optimal', or whether their chosen race/chapter/craftworld etc isn't 'top tier'. So kindly sod off to wherever it is they sell social skills and find the beautify of money well spent*



*last bit does not apply to people with Different Needs. I'm a grump. Not a monster.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
[u
The Top Dog

You're not. Not even close. This isn't your store. This isn't your club. Wind you neck in and let others be about their business. I'm pretty sure nobody cares about your W/L/D ratio, a strong hint of which is no-one else bothering to keep track. I'm equally sure nobody particularly cares if their list is 'sub-optimal', or whether their chosen race/chapter/craftworld etc isn't 'top tier'. So kindly sod off to wherever it is they sell social skills and find the beautify of money well spent*



*last bit does not apply to people with Different Needs. I'm a grump. Not a monster.

We have a ton of guys that keep coming to our local powergamer to ask him what 'the best' army is. Now we have a dozen kids running around with boxes of Tau being coached by this dude, and they only end up playing themselves.

There used to be a "That Guy" who would show up, only "play" his "friends" (ie, play by largely his own BS rules, and browbeat/disrespect the other guys with him into playing his way). He's been asked to no longer come to the shop, and his former friends are great dudes, and a lot happier without him.

 Ustrello wrote:

 BigWaaagh wrote:
The guy that puts his food and gak all over the table top while playing

The guy who likes to narrate his game at a Megadeth concert volume level.

The guy who takes over a fething hour to just sort out his army's models for a game from the giant plastic tub it's all dumped in.

The guy who takes 40 minutes to set up because 8th ed warhammer vampire count armies were mostly zombies...wait a minute thats me

I wasn't naming names... Besides, waiting for you to set up the busses provided me time to walk around the store and spend more money on even more crap I must have.

Here's one:

A guy who was so poor at learning and understanding the rules of the game my friends and I had to constantly teach him again and again while playing, to the point were (excuse the terminology) I was effectively playing with myself. I even had to write his fething lists for him! When he won, it was because he was brilliant and he would excessively gloat about it, but when he lost it was because I cheated and deliberately set him up. He'd get really personal about it too. If I lost I didn't just suck at 40k, I sucked at life.

Five games of this nonsense (3-2 in my favour) before I told him I wasn't doing it anymore. He went away to sulk, then came back for one rematch. I tabled him on turn three and he quit the game forever. And oh yes, he never ever tried to play anyone else outside of our immediate group, ever. Because no one else was patient (or stupid) enough to put up with him.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:


8- The guy that doesn't have a Codex (in any shape, form, or fashion) but wants to play against you. No.

What's the problem about playing against someone that doesn't have the codex? Do you need to check any single rule or stats because you fear that opponent want to cheat? I never use my codexes or rulebook when I play, I can't stand players that always double check, making the game extremely long.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JNAProductions wrote:
The guy that brings his cheesiest list against the new player.

The guy that brings the cheesiest list anytime he shows at a local store.

 JNAProductions wrote:
The guy that brings his cheesiest list against the new player.

I saw this; Eldar list with bikes and wraithknights and the formations against an army comprised of a couple Chaos sets from Dark Vengeance. Elder player kept whispering "miss miss" every time the Chaos player rolled dice. Don't think the elder player lost anything. Then talked about jetbikes being weak and "required" for him to take. Asked me for a game. I laughed at him, told him no, and told the 12 year old kid he smashed "don't feel bad; that was an INCREDIBLY tough list!"

That guy that is just always complaining about the other people at the FLGS, rather than just trying to enjoy the game.

But I once met a 'that guy' that beats all other that guys in this thread. It was when I was 12 years old and met that creepy kind of guy who is way too interested in the younger players at the FLGS and eventually starts to touch them inappropriately. Luckily, he got banned from the store quite quickly after he started doing that.
Needless to say, after meeting that pervert I didn't want to visit the FLGS anymore for a while.
He also did not have a painted army and brought the same list every time, so that made him even worse.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
That guy that is just always complaining about the other people at the FLGS, rather than just trying to enjoy the game.

But I once met a 'that guy' that beats all other that guys in this thread. It was when I was 12 years old and met that creepy kind of guy who is way too interested in the younger players at the FLGS and eventually starts to touch them inappropriately. Luckily, he got banned from the store quite quickly after he started doing that.
Needless to say, after meeting that pervert I didn't want to visit the FLGS anymore for a while.
He also did not have a painted army and brought the same list every time, so that made him even worse.

Well... I think that a Phaedophile its... its much worse that anything in this thread, yeah...

I normally don't have a problem with Power gamers. But I just hate when they hide in the closet and bring the most OP list to pre arranged "casual" games and then just say "But I just bring 3 Riptides, not 4 as I always do! This is not OP maaaan!"

Urgh.

 Blackie wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:


8- The guy that doesn't have a Codex (in any shape, form, or fashion) but wants to play against you. No.

What's the problem about playing against someone that doesn't have the codex? Do you need to check any single rule or stats because you fear that opponent want to cheat? I never use my codexes or rulebook when I play, I can't stand players that always double check, making the game extremely long.

Checking everything is annoying, yes, but it's worse when you're using a codex (especially if I'm not familiar with the one you're using) and it's not there. It's turn 4 and your unit has made a charge (after being in CC by turn 2) suddenly has power weapons? Or, your special character HQ unit suddenly has a relic that a thing on turn 5 that you "forgot" to do in turn 3, but now it REALLY matters in turn 5. . . Yeah mate, THAT is why you need your codex handy.

There's a guy who hasn't been seen in my FLGS for several months now, who routinely pulled stunts like I just briefly described, and usually didn't have his codex on him. Another player at our shop, who genuinely knows his gak and happened to play most of the codices TFG played would regularly have to call him out saying, "that's not how that works" or "that unit doesn't have that rule"

Simply put, not having your Codex is going to raise my suspicions, especially if you have a history in that shop of pulling shenanigans and/or blatant cheating.

 Blackie wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:


8- The guy that doesn't have a Codex (in any shape, form, or fashion) but wants to play against you. No.

What's the problem about playing against someone that doesn't have the codex? Do you need to check any single rule or stats because you fear that opponent want to cheat? I never use my codexes or rulebook when I play, I can't stand players that always double check, making the game extremely long.

It's a matter of people "mis-remembering". I have played space marines since 2008. I still get gak wrong.

No codex = no game with me. Sorry, not sorry.

Yeah, you should always have your Codex when you play. People forget stuff, people remember things wrong, and it's good to be able to double check.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
That guy that is just always complaining about the other people at the FLGS, rather than just trying to enjoy the game.

But I once met a 'that guy' that beats all other that guys in this thread. It was when I was 12 years old and met that creepy kind of guy who is way too interested in the younger players at the FLGS and eventually starts to touch them inappropriately. Luckily, he got banned from the store quite quickly after he started doing that.
Needless to say, after meeting that pervert I didn't want to visit the FLGS anymore for a while.
He also did not have a painted army and brought the same list every time, so that made him even worse.

Jesus.

That guy I knew also turned out to be a nonce. Years later he was arrested, charged and convicted for having indecent images on his phone. I forgot to say that he was a creep as well as a dick.

Not owning the codex is forgivable. Some people game on a budget and some Codexes are not only expensive but replaced by constant supplement changes. I stopped bothering buying Codexes because there was no longevity or stability to the investment.

Its easy to make a list online, and a GW store will allow use of shop copy.

I have been gaming since the early 90's and I'm glad to say I've not really encounter any of these guys, except the autistic guy. And even he wasn't the yelling/self harm kind, just the no concept of personal space or if his story is boring as feth kind.

I am a lucky guy, I guess

Or just the guy that takes the game WAY too seriously and win at ALL costs. Hey, it is a game, you should have fun and you can still have fun even if you lose. Don't rub my bloody nose in it.

Way back in my HackMaster tournament days, we had an event at a (somewhat) local game store. There were 20 players and 4 or 5 GMs. This one dude kept walking from table to table with his hands in his pocket. WAY in his pockets. Many people brought miniatures, as this was a table top RPG event.

He would ask to see people's minis, and several of us obliged. But then he started getting specific. Do you have any female minis? Like female barbarians or slave girls, and seemed to prefer the ones with the least cloths. He'd rub his hand that was WAY in his pocket.

"feth off, we're playing a game", said Kronk, and he left my table alone. We told the owner about him, and he said "yeah, that guy is creepy. He buys a lot, though." Dude was arrested for trying to solicit sex from a teen boy at the store some months later and the dad called the cops on him.

Maybe I've been lucky in my 40k career, but most of the above behaviors (other than an occasionally smelly dude) I haven't experienced.

Other than the no codex thing. What's common with me is people who have a pirated PDF on their phone, who are relatively new.

And, you know, I get it. The codexes are kind of expensive, and a new player may want to cut costs by getting a PDF codex.

And I also get it, there's a lot of rules for a new player, and I don't expect them to memorize their codex for their first game.

But holy DAMN I hate watching people thumb through a 4" phone screen looking for some rule clarification.

Necron player at our store late 30's maybe early 40s, used a stack of styrofoam cups as his monolith. Kind of an eye roll moment but claimed he was just starting out so whatever, but never actually got around to buying one and was still trying to do this six months later. Necrons were the only army he played so it's not like he was spread thin over multiple armies. Also used a pair of empty butter tubs as his barges and never had his codex on him to verify any of rules which he made up on the spot. Somehow he was at a loss as to why people eventually stopped agreeing to play against him.

Another guy was constantly moving his units while measuring front to back of the base, but was Johnny on the Spot with laser like precision when it came to his opponents moving even 1mm too far. He'd scream bloody murder that he was being cheated against but if you back tracked and measured the maximum distance he was always 3-4 inches beyond what he legally could have moved, which was always dismissed as an accident or the turn count being wrong etc. Guy would also move units around if you had to take a bathroom break so that stuff would be out of firing range or just within charge range for his stuff. He'd act innocent about it but everyone knew it was a bold faced lie and people would even call him on it using pics from their phones. He got kicked out for a couple months after one of his opponents filmed him from around the corner moving units. The guy was both incredibly stupid and a constant cheat.

Then there was Mr Roll & Scoop an ork player who'd roll his dice and collect them as fast as possible then spout of incredibly good results which could never be verified. He had the adding speed of a super computer. Other tactics included dice droppping, rolling dice behind terrain where they weren't visible, covering them with his hands, and turning dice so they'd switch to another (successful) number. When forced to roll in plain view his lucky streak would suddenly be less than stellar, imagine that. He also had a serious case of BO from not showering and his breath was even worse. I'm not sure if he didn't brush or if he had some medical issue going on but it was enough to blister paint when he spoke directly at you.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
10- The Guy that paid double for a professionally painted army, because he can't paint- and talks trash about how bad other peoples' armies look.

oh no

I know a guy

 MDSW wrote:
Or just the guy that takes the game WAY too seriously and win at ALL costs. Hey, it is a game, you should have fun and you can still have fun even if you lose. Don't rub my bloody nose in it.

When I played 40k I would take meme lists against players who power gamed every game as if it was the NOVA as bait for them to use a more diverse army. It actually worked. In Warmachine? No such luck in my Grayle/Mohsar Circle lists

I experienced a #7 but of the non-TFG flavor.

We were doing a big 2500 point game and he brought the massive CSM walker formation against my Mech WS list. Bottom of turn 3 I decided to call it quits because he was stomping me in every part of the board except one spot where a single Ironclad dreadnaught managed to punch through 2 Maulerfiends, half a dozen Chaos Terminators and a Helbrute. He persuaded me to play another turn where my lone Ironclad lost its final HP to a meltabomb.

 Orlanth wrote:
Not owning the codex is forgivable. Some people game on a budget and some Codexes are not only expensive but replaced by constant supplement changes. I stopped bothering buying Codexes because there was no longevity or stability to the investment.

Its easy to make a list online, and a GW store will allow use of shop copy.

Just so we're clear, no. GW stores are not supposed to allow use of shop copies for playing games.

They might make an exception for someone just starting out or something like that or the manager might feel generous, but they aren't supposed to do that.

 Blackie wrote:
What's the problem about playing against someone that doesn't have the codex? Do you need to check any single rule or stats because you fear that opponent want to cheat? I never use my codexes or rulebook when I play, I can't stand players that always double check, making the game extremely long.

I don't know every army in 40k, or every special rule. I don't have every Warlord Trait memorized, either. No codex, no game. I don't care if you've got it nearby and don't have to reference it, but I've had quite a few people try to pull some little stunt where they think I'm new (I move around a lot) and try to pull some fast ones on me. When you've got people telling you that Necrons are getting a 2+ Reanimation Protocol, or some other fast one- I tend to start asking to see the rule.

I'm not a Nazi about the rules, mistakes are often made- but I take a personal grudge against people who cheat for no reason in a game about little plastic toys. And yes, there are guys that will cheat to win for no reason at all, and that's simply idiotic. I like to know exactly who these people are so I can ridicule and shun them into oblivion.

Call it being a jerk on my part, but when you've seen these guy cheat little kids... or worse, attempt to cheat in tournaments... it tends to get under your skin.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
That guy that is just always complaining about the other people at the FLGS, rather than just trying to enjoy the game.

Unfortunately, I can't be the guy that's always playing at the FLGS, especially since it's a half hour away... So yeah, I do other stuff like complain.

Had a 750 point beginner tournament, meant to generate more interest in the community. Many had armies strait out of dark vengeance and the like. Dude shows up from a near by town(chair force dude) and brings a knight and the dude who can repair the knight. Almost no one had the ability to deal with it at 750 points of beginner army. The TO figured locally no one would be a dick, but didn't account for this guy. No rule against it, so it played, he won and half those people were never seen again. Unfortunate.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
Not owning the codex is forgivable. Some people game on a budget and some Codexes are not only expensive but replaced by constant supplement changes. I stopped bothering buying Codexes because there was no longevity or stability to the investment.

Its easy to make a list online, and a GW store will allow use of shop copy.

Just so we're clear, no. GW stores are not supposed to allow use of shop copies for playing games.

They might make an exception for someone just starting out or something like that or the manager might feel generous, but they aren't supposed to do that.

The majority of my LGW's codices are shrink-wrapped, and the general policy is that if a book isn't shrink-wrapped you can gently flip through it for a couple minutes while deciding whether to buy or not.

 redleger wrote:
Had a 750 point beginner tournament, meant to generate more interest in the community. Many had armies strait out of dark vengeance and the like. Dude shows up from a near by town(chair force dude) and brings a knight and the dude who can repair the knight. Almost no one had the ability to deal with it at 750 points of beginner army. The TO figured locally no one would be a dick, but didn't account for this guy. No rule against it, so it played, he won and half those people were never seen again. Unfortunate.

I experienced something similar. Tourney rules were don't be a d-bag and prizes were by raffle so no reason to be a d-bag in a friendly tourney.

Not one Eldar player could stop themself. 750pts and their is a WK stomping around with jetbike spam armies. Oh, well they won nothing lol.

Bonus points, the WK guy tried to enter a model in the best painted contest that he clearly paid to have painted.

I had one:

Mr. "Show me the FAQ or you're cheating". Now, this doesn't sound so bad, except how he implemented it. He would insist on being shown a FAQ for something that EVERYONE new by heart and had been playing with for weeks or months.

One of my favorites: For those that didn't know, in early 3rd edition terminators did NOT have an invulnerable save. It was originally FAQed in a white dwarf article. In late 2001 he insisted a marine player couldn't have invulnerable saves unless he produced that FAQ.

Of course, if he didn't have the FAQ you just needed to trust him. He's the reason I had EVERY Faq (Forgeworld included) printed out and updated regularly and kept in a binder.

I remember one not from Warhammer, but somehow ten times more despicable, although I did not encounter him. My friend did.

It was a MTG tournament and it was the final round. My friend went up against this guy who has one of those "cost 1000 dollars, has four copies of the most expensive cards" type decks. The Match goes for 3 games and my friend barely wins the last match. The opponent says good game and asks to see my friend's deck to see how it was made. My friend obliges and hands it over (it's actually part of tournament rules that the opponent has a right to verify cards in your deck or something). The dude looks over and hands it back

During the awards, the same guy rises up and shouts "HE CHEATED!" and claimed that my friend's deck had only 59 cards, one less than legal. The judges then count his cards and, sure enough, my friend only had 59 cards and was disqualified from the tournament. My friend insisted he had 60 cards when he started but the judges wouldn't hear of it. They handed the prize over to the other guy and everyone left.

After people were leaving, my friend saw the guy toss something on the ground as he left. It was one of the cards from my friend's deck. Turns out when the guy asked to see the deck, he slipped one of the cards into his sleeve. My friend alerted the judges but since there was no video proof of it and the guy already left with the prize, there was nothing they could do. What surprised my friend was that not only did the judge believe on him on the spot, but they've seen it done before (although not necessarily by the same guy). My friend has since always kept 61 cards in his deck and always sits down and count out his cards before each match and after letting people see it.

As for "the guy", he hasn't been seen since.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
After people were leaving, my friend saw the guy toss something on the ground as he left. It was one of the cards from my friend's deck.

Oh... holy crap. We keep finding random cards in the trash cans and in the parking at our FLGS. Not 'junk cards', either. And our winners are constantly being 'disqualified'... this might be happening at my FLGS! We have one dude that keeps winning 1/2/3 place by technicality, and he's a pretty sleazy looking dude and always wears a baggy long-sleeve shirt.

I didn't know that 'card count' was a thing because my experience with M:tG was 'Hey bro let's buy this two-deck pack from Wal-Mart and play with it while we drink beer or something'.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 redleger wrote:
Had a 750 point beginner tournament, meant to generate more interest in the community. Many had armies strait out of dark vengeance and the like. Dude shows up from a near by town(chair force dude) and brings a knight and the dude who can repair the knight. Almost no one had the ability to deal with it at 750 points of beginner army. The TO figured locally no one would be a dick, but didn't account for this guy. No rule against it, so it played, he won and half those people were never seen again. Unfortunate.

I experienced something similar. Tourney rules were don't be a d-bag and prizes were by raffle so no reason to be a d-bag in a friendly tourney.

Not one Eldar player could stop themself. 750pts and their is a WK stomping around with jetbike spam armies. Oh, well they won nothing lol.

Bonus points, the WK guy tried to enter a model in the best painted contest that he clearly paid to have painted.

Story from some of my friends at the local shop, actually is one of the people I've already mentioned/covered in my own experience...

Anyhow, 750 tourney in the shop. Super friendly, the "prize" was basically "give a model/unit to the manager and he'll paint it for ya" sort of thing. At some point in the afternoon, before lunch someone points out that this dude's Tau list is running at about 1100 points (near as he can tell, since what the dude says changes from turn to turn to turn) and lo and behold, dude right before lunch says, "I got a phone call, so I have to head out and leave"

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
After people were leaving, my friend saw the guy toss something on the ground as he left. It was one of the cards from my friend's deck.

Oh... holy crap. We keep finding random cards in the trash cans and in the parking at our FLGS. Not 'junk cards', either. And our winners are constantly being 'disqualified'... this might be happening at my FLGS! We have one dude that keeps winning 1/2/3 place by technicality, and he's a pretty sleazy looking dude and always wears a baggy long-sleeve shirt.

I didn't know that 'card count' was a thing because my experience with M:tG was 'Hey bro let's buy this two-deck pack from Wal-Mart and play with it while we drink beer or something'.

The intent of the Card Count was so that you wouldn't have a disproportionate advantage by bringing, say, 40 cards instead of 60 cards, as 40 cards will result in far too much consistency so the game turns into basically a rock paper scissor match instead of one of resource and risk management.

The reason it's so unforgiving is because entire books have been written on the subject for high level play and entire math equations have been made to maximize even one less card in your deck. (There are cards that legally do this, the two most infamous ones are Gitaxian Probe and Street Wraith as both of them do not require mana to use their effects and their effects makes you draw one card, essentially allowing you to immediately replace either Probe or Wraith for another card in your deck by tossing it into the grave).

High level MTG play is a place I despise, and 1/2 of the reason I never participate in tournaments. These people will do anything to win and even when they don't resort to underhanded tactics they still suck the fun out of the game by essentially treating it as a sequence of computer programs and a flow chart instead of, you know, a game.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Orlanth wrote:
Not owning the codex is forgivable. Some people game on a budget and some Codexes are not only expensive but replaced by constant supplement changes. I stopped bothering buying Codexes because there was no longevity or stability to the investment.

Its easy to make a list online, and a GW store will allow use of shop copy.

Just so we're clear, no. GW stores are not supposed to allow use of shop copies for playing games.

They might make an exception for someone just starting out or something like that or the manager might feel generous, but they aren't supposed to do that.

The majority of my LGW's codices are shrink-wrapped, and the general policy is that if a book isn't shrink-wrapped you can gently flip through it for a couple minutes while deciding whether to buy or not.

Yeah, the GW shops are given a copy of the codex to use as the "store copy".

They got no problem with letting you flip through it or anything. It's just not supposed to be something you can game or write a list with.

Some of this is why I don't play at a LGS, or with random people in general. I've never played a tabletop game with anyone I don't know. And I only play with people who don't play tabletop games. What this means is i'm always the guy explaining and teaching. It can be a hassle, but I don't know whats worse...the stuff in the OP or having to drink water cause i've had to restate the same rules over again.

I don't consider 40k a casual game, so i'd never play it with anyone. I might consider a friendly round of X wing or AoS with someone at a local store though.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I had one:

Mr. "Show me the FAQ or you're cheating". Now, this doesn't sound so bad, except how he implemented it. He would insist on being shown a FAQ for something that EVERYONE new by heart and had been playing with for weeks or months.

One of my favorites: For those that didn't know, in early 3rd edition terminators did NOT have an invulnerable save. It was originally FAQed in a white dwarf article. In late 2001 he insisted a marine player couldn't have invulnerable saves unless he produced that FAQ.

Of course, if he didn't have the FAQ you just needed to trust him. He's the reason I had EVERY Faq (Forgeworld included) printed out and updated regularly and kept in a binder.

Why play him. The moment he popped that I would have packed up and impolitely told him to go F himself.

 Frazzled wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
I had one:

Mr. "Show me the FAQ or you're cheating". Now, this doesn't sound so bad, except how he implemented it. He would insist on being shown a FAQ for something that EVERYONE new by heart and had been playing with for weeks or months.

One of my favorites: For those that didn't know, in early 3rd edition terminators did NOT have an invulnerable save. It was originally FAQed in a white dwarf article. In late 2001 he insisted a marine player couldn't have invulnerable saves unless he produced that FAQ.

Of course, if he didn't have the FAQ you just needed to trust him. He's the reason I had EVERY Faq (Forgeworld included) printed out and updated regularly and kept in a binder.

Why play him. The moment he popped that I would have packed up and impolitely told him to go F himself.

He was buddy-buddy with the guys that were "leaders" of the local gaming store 40k gaming night. Keeping my FAQ binder up to date was less problematic than having those guys turn against me.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I remember one not from Warhammer, but somehow ten times more despicable, although I did not encounter him. My friend did.

It was a MTG tournament and it was the final round. My friend went up against this guy who has one of those "cost 1000 dollars, has four copies of the most expensive cards" type decks. The Match goes for 3 games and my friend barely wins the last match. The opponent says good game and asks to see my friend's deck to see how it was made. My friend obliges and hands it over (it's actually part of tournament rules that the opponent has a right to verify cards in your deck or something). The dude looks over and hands it back

During the awards, the same guy rises up and shouts "HE CHEATED!" and claimed that my friend's deck had only 59 cards, one less than legal. The judges then count his cards and, sure enough, my friend only had 59 cards and was disqualified from the tournament. My friend insisted he had 60 cards when he started but the judges wouldn't hear of it. They handed the prize over to the other guy and everyone left.

After people were leaving, my friend saw the guy toss something on the ground as he left. It was one of the cards from my friend's deck. Turns out when the guy asked to see the deck, he slipped one of the cards into his sleeve. My friend alerted the judges but since there was no video proof of it and the guy already left with the prize, there was nothing they could do. What surprised my friend was that not only did the judge believe on him on the spot, but they've seen it done before (although not necessarily by the same guy). My friend has since always kept 61 cards in his deck and always sits down and count out his cards before each match and after letting people see it.

As for "the guy", he hasn't been seen since.

I nearly started seeing red after reading this. If it had happened to me, I'd have tried to find out where the guy lives or works and, if successful, would have probably done something REALLY stupid. Like slashing his car's tires or throwing a brick (or maybe a Molotov cocktail?) through his windows kind of stupid. I hope someone catches that guy cheating like that and gives him what he deserves.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I nearly started seeing red after reading this. If it had happened to me, I'd have tried to find out where the guy lives or works and, if successful, would have probably done something REALLY stupid. Like slashing his car's tires or throwing a brick (or maybe a Molotov cocktail?) through his windows kind of stupid. I hope someone catches that guy cheating like that and gives him what he deserves.

Dude, it's a card game.

You don't smash his windshield or torch his ride over this.

Keep in mind a vehicle counts as an extension of the home, and in some places this will get you shot because of the Castle Doctrine. So good luck explaining to the cops that you got shot for torching a guy's car at his house because he cheated in a card game about magic monsters.

You don't deal with cheaters like this. Because you look like a sore loser that goes and gets violent when you don't win. You deal with cheaters by ratting them out to not just your FLGS- but every single one you can find. You get evidence and smear them through the community.

If that makes you see red, never look up those stories about people trying to scam others for rare cards in trades. The only good news about that is generally the store manager would step in if alerted to a scammer and kick him out, since stores are also a common avenue for people to come and trade, so having a scammer on site is a detriment to the store's own reputation and quite often gets a swift response (usually in the form of a metaphorical boot to the ass. Physical boot if the guy is being unruly). The store doesn't lose out much from booting the guy either since these guys usually don't buy stuff at those stores (if they did, they wouldn't be trying to scam people for much rarer cards) and drive away more legitimate business.

How does collecting M:tG keep having this massive market for 'rares' and 'trades'? As I've seen, all the kids do is shoplift the hell out of card decks at Wal-Mart.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I nearly started seeing red after reading this. If it had happened to me, I'd have tried to find out where the guy lives or works and, if successful, would have probably done something REALLY stupid. Like slashing his car's tires or throwing a brick (or maybe a Molotov cocktail?) through his windows kind of stupid. I hope someone catches that guy cheating like that and gives him what he deserves.

Dude, it's a card game.

You don't smash his windshield or torch his ride over this.

Keep in mind a vehicle counts as an extension of the home, and in some places this will get you shot because of the Castle Doctrine. So good luck explaining to the cops that you got shot for torching a guy's car at his house because he cheated in a card game about magic monsters.

You don't deal with cheaters like this. Because you look like a sore loser that goes and gets violent when you don't win. You deal with cheaters by ratting them out to not just your FLGS- but every single one you can find. You get evidence and smear them through the community.

You're right of course. I apologize for posting what I did. Under normal circumstances I don't approve of violence. Let this be a lesson: don't post on forums shortly after getting home late at night after a bad day at work. I apologize if I offended anyone. It still really grinds my gears that the turd nugget in question got away with stealing and cheating. But I agree that destroying someone's car over it would be...extreme.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
You're right of course. I apologize for posting what I did. Under normal circumstances I don't approve of violence. Let this be a lesson: don't post on forums shortly after getting home late at night after a bad day at work. I apologize if I offended anyone. It still really grinds my gears that the turd nugget in question got away with stealing and cheating. But I agree that destroying someone's car over it would be...extreme.

No worries. We all get passionate.

Cheating and stealing are more common than you think. I get called a 'jerk', because the first thing I do when I go to the FLGS is see how many kids there are. If there's a ton of kids, I don't go there. I've had plenty of kids try to steal stuff from me or my friends, and in military towns some of their little brats tend to be more willing to act out and be little hoodlums for nothing more than the sake of being hoodlums. In the last place I lived, we had this little fat kid and his buddies that went around yanking models out of peoples' boxes. When there's about 8 good players in a wargaming room, and we all have to put padlocks on our bags and boxes- something is wrong.

We beat this kid by simply catching him in the act, and letting the store owner ban him and his friends. The store owner then called every single store in town (fancy that, all these stores generally talk to each other). This kid had to quit playing his Yi-gi-oh games entirely, because even tournament organizers outside of the stores found out about him and banned him. Comically enough, his father returned from deployment and was FURIOUS- so he had this kid going around in a shirt and tie, making personal apologies to everyone that played in the gaming community, and was sweeping the parking lots at the game shops.

There's a guy I stopped playing against here locally because he simply cannot behave himself, and insists on cheating. He cannot bare to lose, even a friendly game. Games that are as chill as, "Hey, dude- can you help me try out my formation?" turn into him twisting rules or making up rules, or having him just flat-out cheat to win. He's gone as far as fudging an extra 250 points into lists in order to win.

We caught this guy by snapping pictures of his lists and armies on the table when he was taking a piss, and recording his little tantrums. Fun fact- most of our tournament organizers aren't people who work at the store, so they can refuse to allow anyone they want. And when all the store owners saw how much profanity he spewed and how mean he got about losing, he was barred from playing at all the stores. The comical thing about this is that it actually reached every store in about an hour's drive from here. Eventually, we found his models on eBay and Craigslist.

You fight these guys the smart way- by taking away what they love... their ability to enjoy their hobby. That's harsh, more harsh that destroying their property. Property can be replaced. None of these guys will be gaming for a long, long time. At least not until they move somewhere else.

And to be truthful, I once considered running a blog that shamed people like this- with evidence of their behavior, of course. I'd even allow them to contest the claim if they wanted.

If you have to steal things to get what you want, you don't deserve them. If you have to win- to the extent you have to cheat- to enjoy a game, you are not enjoying the game. Anyone who does either of these things isn't just a lousy gamer, they're the kind of person that keeps gamers in a bad light.

Cheaters, bullies, shrieking harpies with an outrage fetish, thieves, stinky-dirties, and all-around scumlords.... these sorts of people tend to thrive in gaming communities, because for some reason we gamers as a community lack the testicular fortitude to boot them and shun them. These sorts don't thrive in other groups, that's why many of them tend to gravitate toward us. And we're gaming geeks... we're not a gun collector's association, we're not a veteran's club, we're not bikers, we're not a sports and fitness group- we're not made of badasses and tough guys. That's why we have to be smart about how we deal with people.

MtG has a huge tournament scene with actual cash prizes (substantial ones), and entry into the bigger tournaments requires you to do good in a lesser tournament, and there are a lot of levels all they way down to the "casual" ones at local game stores. Hence why this dickish behaviour shows up in all levels of competitive play in that game.

For the record, the one my friend went to had a cash prize of 1000 bucks or so along with some game swag, which partially explains why that guy was willing to cheat like that (doesn't excuse it in the slightest, but at least gives him some motivation). I'm willing to bet that if 40k or AoS started having sanctioned tournaments with substantial prizes and player tracking, we'd start seeing the same underhanded tactics showing up.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
I'm willing to bet that if 40k or AoS started having sanctioned tournaments with substantial prizes and player tracking, we'd start seeing the same underhanded tactics showing up.

We had a 40k tournament recently. The winner used his cash prize to buy everyone pizza.

I've no doubt this is the exception and not the norm, but the thing about 40k is we're a bit better at shoving out the scummier people.

If we had global player tracking and player histories, as well as people making a living off of it, then it might get far less gentlemanly than it is now (imagine if the arguments in YMDC became commonplace in real life).

On that subject, I guess there is a small bit of happiness to my friend's story. They did record down his player account and made a note of it for future incidents. However, again, as no solid evidence could be found they couldn't actually do anything about this incident. Again, he never showed up to further events, so it's assumed that he either realized he was almost caught and cut his losses, or acted up somewhere else and was booted from major events.

Oh, I got one.

So, a few friends of mine noticed a trend at our FLGS- people tend to get a bit... loud. Obnoxious. There's children climbing all over everyone.

So we decided that one day we would have a casual game day at a store down the road. A basic 'tournament', with the 'prize' being that the winner didn't have to put down for pizza and beer that night afterward. We wanted it to be fun, friendly, and relaxed- more focused on bringing our best players in to teach our newer players what they can do better, and how they can maximize the potential for things in their army- with a little part-swapping here and there to help some guys out.

Now, we have some... competitive guys that frequent our main gaming store.

A little background on our 'competitive' guys: These are the dudes that criticize everyone's paint job, when they're paying one professional to do all of theirs (they buy his models, he paints theirs). These are the guys that joined an escalation league aimed at new players and people starting new armies with the same Death Star armies they've had since they started coming to the store, and pretty much blasted through the entire league with tailored lists (they knew who had what and changed their stuff out between games on different days of the weekend). They got so out of hand with their powergaming, that the store explicitly made a rule stating that they can't play a game at the store without asking an employee for permission.

So these dudes found out about our little friendly game, and immediately started asking if they could get in on it. We told them it was private, and it was for us, and we had a full bracket already.

The day we went to play, these guys had taken every table up with their little buddies playing Kill-Team, Infinity, Blood Bowl, etc- and sat on those tables all day to keep us off. One of them finally said he could clear off some tables if we let him and some of his friends join.

We took our models to one guy's house and just rotated out using his personal gaming table, and everyone drank and chilled out.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
7- The guy that rags on you when you concede the game, because it is mathematically/logistically impossible for you to win. Sorry, dude- other people want to use the tables and I'm not going to spend another hour letting you blast my dudes to death when you have a 5-point lead.

In fairness, sometimes the story isn't about whether you lose, but how.

nareik wrote:
In fairness, sometimes the story isn't about whether you lose, but how.

Yeah, but sometimes the 'story' isn't as important to the other people who are waiting on a table.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Oh, I got one.

So, a few friends of mine noticed a trend at our FLGS- people tend to get a bit... loud. Obnoxious. There's children climbing all over everyone.

So we decided that one day we would have a casual game day at a store down the road. A basic 'tournament', with the 'prize' being that the winner didn't have to put down for pizza and beer that night afterward. We wanted it to be fun, friendly, and relaxed- more focused on bringing our best players in to teach our newer players what they can do better, and how they can maximize the potential for things in their army- with a little part-swapping here and there to help some guys out.

Now, we have some... competitive guys that frequent our main gaming store.

A little background on our 'competitive' guys: These are the dudes that criticize everyone's paint job, when they're paying one professional to do all of theirs (they buy his models, he paints theirs). These are the guys that joined an escalation league aimed at new players and people starting new armies with the same Death Star armies they've had since they started coming to the store, and pretty much blasted through the entire league with tailored lists (they knew who had what and changed their stuff out between games on different days of the weekend). They got so out of hand with their powergaming, that the store explicitly made a rule stating that they can't play a game at the store without asking an employee for permission.

So these dudes found out about our little friendly game, and immediately started asking if they could get in on it. We told them it was private, and it was for us, and we had a full bracket already.

The day we went to play, these guys had taken every table up with their little buddies playing Kill-Team, Infinity, Blood Bowl, etc- and sat on those tables all day to keep us off. One of them finally said he could clear off some tables if we let him and some of his friends join.

We took our models to one guy's house and just rotated out using his personal gaming table, and everyone drank and chilled out.

Now THIS is how you beat the TFG's. Although you should alert the store staff as to what happened, as even passive bullying like that is still bullying.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Yeah, but sometimes the 'story' isn't as important to the other people who are waiting on a table.

But let's be honest here, a lot of people give up and think about quitting the game as soon as anything goes even slightly badly for them. If they aren't winning decisively it's time to give up, they have no interest in trying to fight back from a disadvantage even when the game is far from over. And that's incredibly frustrating to deal with if you want to have complete games.

Anyway, my two hated TFG types:

1) The complete who doesn't understand how to behave in public. Anger issues over losing a game, the guy that thought it was ok to yell rape jokes in the middle of a game, etc. You know, the kind of people you wouldn't want to deal with in any other context. Thankfully these seem to be pretty rare in my experience.

2) The "casual at all costs" players who whine and cry if you dare to attempt to win a game instead of bringing a "fun" list (as they define "fun", which usually involves some convoluted code of honor in which their personal lists are always considered acceptable). Sorry, CAAC players, a game is a competitive activity with a winner and a loser, and trying to figure out the perfect list to win games is fun. And get off your ridiculous moral high ground about how you're the only people who know how to have fun, and everyone who doesn't play the game the way you do is some kind of WAAC TFG who is ruining everything. And this is especially true if we're talking about a tournament, an activity where the purpose is to find the best player through competition.

And you if you whine and cry because I don't allow you to bend the rules in your favor. It is not "WAAC TFG behavior" to point out that your unit is indisputably 1mm out of range after measuring it carefully, and you aren't entitled to round off that last 1mm in your favor just because you'd really like to get to shoot with that unit. It is not "WAAC TFG behavior" to play the rules as written instead of your "fluffy" interpretation, which conveniently happens to favor your army. And the fact that I tend to be right in rule disputes instead of letting you win half of them just to be "fair" does not mean that I'm the bad guy. And you sure as hell aren't "casual" if you're doing this stuff.

 Peregrine wrote:

But let's be honest here, a lot of people give up and think about quitting the game as soon as anything goes even slightly badly for them. If they aren't winning decisively it's time to give up, they have no interest in trying to fight back from a disadvantage even when the game is far from over. And that's incredibly frustrating to deal with if you want to have complete games.

Well, there's a difference in the guy that had a bad couple of turns... and someone who is behind 3 points, with 2 scoring units left on the table against 5 scoring units with OBSEC, when the guy's got your warlord down to 1 wound, a unit 12 inches from your table edge, and 2 objective cards he's about to cash in for 2D3 victory points. If it is mathematically, logistically, and physically impossible to do anything to win or even tie at that point... I'm not going to waste more time sitting on a table that someone else could be using, just so someone can go around the shop gloating about how he blew all of my units off the board in turn 3.

Anyway, my two hated TFG types:

 Peregrine wrote:
1) The complete who doesn't understand how to behave in public. Anger issues over losing a game, the guy that thought it was ok to yell rape jokes in the middle of a game, etc. You know, the kind of people you wouldn't want to deal with in any other context. Thankfully these seem to be pretty rare in my experience.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again and again- the gaming community has no shortage of pigs, crybullies, stinkies, whiners, ragemonkeys, lousy parents, thieves, and any other number of terrible scumbags of a wide variety. The only reason they thrive in gaming communities is because they think we have no balls- and for the longest time, it seems like they may have been right. If you push these people out of the community, and exercise the beautiful art of 'gatekeeping' that everyone claims is so terrible, and be a jerk to them and stand your ground- then you'll find a community cleans up real fast.

 Peregrine wrote:
2) The "casual at all costs" players who whine and cry if you dare to attempt to win a game instead of bringing a "fun" list (as they define "fun", which usually involves some convoluted code of honor in which their personal lists are always considered acceptable). Sorry, CAAC players, a game is a competitive activity with a winner and a loser, and trying to figure out the perfect list to win games is fun. And get off your ridiculous moral high ground about how you're the only people who know how to have fun, and everyone who doesn't play the game the way you do is some kind of WAAC TFG who is ruining everything. And this is especially true if we're talking about a tournament, an activity where the purpose is to find the best player through competition.

And you if you whine and cry because I don't allow you to bend the rules in your favor. It is not "WAAC TFG behavior" to point out that your unit is indisputably 1mm out of range after measuring it carefully, and you aren't entitled to round off that last 1mm in your favor just because you'd really like to get to shoot with that unit. It is not "WAAC TFG behavior" to play the rules as written instead of your "fluffy" interpretation, which conveniently happens to favor your army. And the fact that I tend to be right in rule disputes instead of letting you win half of them just to be "fair" does not mean that I'm the bad guy. And you sure as hell aren't "casual" if you're doing this stuff.

That doesn't sound so much like a guy who's obsessed with 'casual' gaming. It sounds like a guy that tries to dress up a game as 'casual' but sneak in a win. I've seen quite a few players that try to claim they're putting down just a 'fun list' for a 'friendly game' that turns out to be something really, really nasty. That's why most of the time I'll bring out my dirtiest tricks possible when they do this, just to see how 'friendly' they are going to be. If they start getting a bit aggressive, I'll turn my dial up and start playing with my dirty tricks, too.

And yes, I will throw a wall of armored vehicles and cultists in the middle of an urban map in a 'relic' game and create a wall of tanks while I move my dude to the most advantageous piece of cover on the map.

Some of the most fun I have had playing 40k is just playing to 3 turns and then reset. You can get in way more games and if you and your opponent know what they are doing, you can generally tell where the game is going to go after 3 turns.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
I've said it once, and I'll say it again and again- the gaming community has no shortage of pigs, crybullies, stinkies, whiners, ragemonkeys, lousy parents, thieves, and any other number of terrible scumbags of a wide variety. The only reason they thrive in gaming communities is because they think we have no balls- and for the longest time, it seems like they may have been right. If you push these people out of the community, and exercise the beautiful art of 'gatekeeping' that everyone claims is so terrible, and be a jerk to them and stand your ground- then you'll find a community cleans up real fast.

I just said it, but I'll say it again: in my experience people like this are much rarer than the horror stories like to suggest. Most people I've encountered have been normal reasonable adults like you'd find in any other community, and most of the people who couldn't behave got reputations for being trouble and were only grudgingly tolerated. I don't think the gaming community is really any worse about tolerating unpleasant people when compared to other hobbies, and talking about how we need to shun more people often seems like the kind of cliquish attitude that quickly makes a community an awful place to be.

That doesn't sound so much like a guy who's obsessed with 'casual' gaming. It sounds like a guy that tries to dress up a game as 'casual' but sneak in a win. I've seen quite a few players that try to claim they're putting down just a 'fun list' for a 'friendly game' that turns out to be something really, really nasty. That's why most of the time I'll bring out my dirtiest tricks possible when they do this, just to see how 'friendly' they are going to be. If they start getting a bit aggressive, I'll turn my dial up and start playing with my dirty tricks, too.

And yes, I will throw a wall of armored vehicles and cultists in the middle of an urban map in a 'relic' game and create a wall of tanks while I move my dude to the most advantageous piece of cover on the map.

No, it's absolutely people who consider themselves "casual". It's not just a calculated attempt to win, they seem to have this idea that in a "casual" game you don't need to worry about being too precise about range/arc/etc, if it's close you just let them have the shot. And if you spend the extra time to carefully measure it to find that they're 1mm out then of course you're a WAAC player who doesn't care enough about having fun. Same thing with the list strength whines. It's not that their lists are amazing (most of them suck and would lose every time against a competitive list), it's that they set up convoluted codes of honor where if you don't play the kind of list that they play you're a WAAC TFG. And they'll complain on forums, demand to have people shunned from the community, etc, if someone brings a list that is "too good" to a game where they're expecting everyone to play by their code of honor.

I completely agree with Peregrine here, and look no further than Dakka for loads of examples of this type of attitude and behavior.

I haven't had much in the way of really bad experiences, but there's certainly a spectrum of people who only enjoy a game when they're winning. Even if they don't descend to tantrum-throwing level it gets old having to deal with players who get gloomy and disinterested if the game isn't going their way. I've cheated in probably a dozen or so games of Warhammer, every time has been to fudge my rolls DOWN so I could put myself at a disadvantage and not have to deal with it.

4- The guy that doesn't play 40k any more, shows up to talk about how much he hates 40k now, and generally spends no money or does nothing but gripe.

Damn, that's probably half of the posters here on Dakka!

 Peregrine wrote:
I I don't think the gaming community is really any worse about tolerating unpleasant people when compared to other hobbies, and talking about how we need to shun more people often seems like the kind of cliquish attitude that quickly makes a community an awful place to be.

I think you're misreading me. But the sort of people I made clear that should be shunned, I'm not sure why you wouldn't support shunning them. Or, you know- we can have more 'totally true' blog posts that talk about how we've got some kind of white male terrorism problem, and then people can go on and on about 'not in MY community!' a day after they were sharing stories about the same scumbaggery. Gaming isn't overran with scumbags. But we have just enough scumbags. And let me be clear- people who bang up those fake blog posts are, in my opinion, the same sort of scumbag. I acknowledge that both sorts exist. But no sooner does something like this get mentioned by some girl, that every gamer in the world manifests a story about the roving rape-gangs at his FLGS.

And if gatekeeping scumbags is wrong, then I will gladly give 'being right' the middle finger. I do not want cheaters, liars, bullies, shrieking harpies, thieves, stinkies, or abusive people in my gaming community. I don't care whose feelings it hurts, either. That makes a community 'an awful place to be' for a specific type of person, and that's the idea behind it. It should be awful for these sorts, they should feel unwelcome, and they should feel like they have no place in gaming communities until they stop being scumbags.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I haven't had much in the way of really bad experiences, but there's certainly a spectrum of people who only enjoy a game when they're winning. Even if they don't descend to tantrum-throwing level it gets old having to deal with players who get gloomy and disinterested if the game isn't going their way. I've cheated in probably a dozen or so games of Warhammer, every time has been to fudge my rolls DOWN so I could put myself at a disadvantage and not have to deal with it.

We have the non-tantrum guy, too. Every time he loses, he gets upset and buys a new allied detachment. He's great for the store.

We had a guy the other week who brought his classic Hero Quest but refused to be GM, forcing another player who hasn't played in years to run the game. The group decided to roll off to decide who gets first pick of character cards, and this guy threw a tantrum about how unfair it was that he didn't get to play the Elf class, even long AFTER the guy who picked Elf offered to swap.

Next time if he complains he doesn't get to play his favourite class, I'm just going to force him to photocopy it so everyone's happy (there's a photocopier in the community centre room we hire).


This same guy also spent the night being passive aggressive with me saying I was "spitting my dummy out" when I declined the chance to play Hero Quest because I'd already made plans with someone else to play a miniature wargame (I spent the night helping him write his list). I'd previously expressed genuine interest in playing Hero Quest, but this guy keeps turning up unannounced typically on days when we've made other plans. On weeks when he says he intends to bring Hero Quest, he brings a different game instead.

And he also often arrives late halfway through the session, after we've started playing games that hes not interested in, takes one look and walks out.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
We had a guy the other week who brought his classic Hero Quest but refused to be GM, forcing another player who hasn't played in years to run the game...

I'm just shocked someone has an intact copy of 'Hero Quest'. I've been considering using modern minis to recreate the game.

Also, "spitting your dummy out" - LOL. My ex said this to her son, it was hilarious.

Yeah, I import.

I forgot about the funniest player I've ever seen in a smallish 40k community. This guy was not very good at the game however you shaked it but he was also competitive so losing was fustrating. His strategy to win? He would buy all the good units at the store to the armies that any of his opponents played. This way nobody got the good stuff to expand their amries with. He ended having an apartment with unopened box towers everywhere. Every week you would go into the store because you knew the day they got stock in and everytime you would find out that the guy showed up early and bought it all.

He ended being a major contributor for the closing of the store from what I remember.

So he actually helped to kill the business and just hoarded these unopened boxes? Damn, that's just...demented.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
I forgot about the funniest player I've ever seen in a smallish 40k community. This guy was not very good at the game however you shaked it but he was also competitive so losing was fustrating. His strategy to win? He would buy all the good units at the store to the armies that any of his opponents played. This way nobody got the good stuff to expand their amries with. He ended having an apartment with unopened box towers everywhere. Every week you would go into the store because you knew the day they got stock in and everytime you would find out that the guy showed up early and bought it all.

He ended being a major contributor for the closing of the store from what I remember.

.....the store went under because he bought all the product? Something sounds off about this story....

Dunno. If he drives away enough people, he reduces the need to buy his way to victory.

Though one would think a store owner worth their salt would ban the trouble maker. It's never nice to do, but sometimes it's necessary.

There's one guy I know, who really isn't too bad, but basically decided to quit 40k after a game with me and then losing at a highly competitive tournament. He was already considering it beforehand, but when his DA stasis bomber thing's special rules turned out to be useless against 1W guardsmen, he sounded like he was going to list it on Ebay immediately after the game, instead of using it as the regular Storm Talon or whatever it's based from. He also tried to bring a comparatively tame Tau list to our FLGS Adepticon Primer, got wrecked, and was also very disgruntled with a daemon player's (admittedly low quality, but recognizable) VSG scratch build. That tourney seemed to be the final nail in the coffin. He has since moved on to X-wing.

I had my own "That Guy" moment while spectating a Blood Bowl game. I accidentally passed gas, but was too embarrassed to make a warning or apology. A minute later, everyone save one person had their shirts over their noses. Cue that last guy (bless him) breaking into a comic relief story about losing his sense of smell, after his middle school thought it'd be a wonderful idea to take a field trip to a sewage treatment plant.

 BrotherGecko wrote:
I forgot about the funniest player I've ever seen in a smallish 40k community. This guy was not very good at the game however you shaked it but he was also competitive so losing was fustrating. His strategy to win? He would buy all the good units at the store to the armies that any of his opponents played. This way nobody got the good stuff to expand their amries with. He ended having an apartment with unopened box towers everywhere. Every week you would go into the store because you knew the day they got stock in and everytime you would find out that the guy showed up early and bought it all.

He ended being a major contributor for the closing of the store from what I remember.

...What was that guy's source of money, and how do I replicate it?

 Peregrine wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Yeah, but sometimes the 'story' isn't as important to the other people who are waiting on a table.

But let's be honest here, a lot of people give up and think about quitting the game as soon as anything goes even slightly badly for them. If they aren't winning decisively it's time to give up, they have no interest in trying to fight back from a disadvantage even when the game is far from over. And that's incredibly frustrating to deal with if you want to have complete games.

Anyway, my two hated TFG types:

1) The complete who doesn't understand how to behave in public. Anger issues over losing a game, the guy that thought it was ok to yell rape jokes in the middle of a game, etc. You know, the kind of people you wouldn't want to deal with in any other context. Thankfully these seem to be pretty rare in my experience.

2) The "casual at all costs" players who whine and cry if you dare to attempt to win a game instead of bringing a "fun" list (as they define "fun", which usually involves some convoluted code of honor in which their personal lists are always considered acceptable). Sorry, CAAC players, a game is a competitive activity with a winner and a loser, and trying to figure out the perfect list to win games is fun. And get off your ridiculous moral high ground about how you're the only people who know how to have fun, and everyone who doesn't play the game the way you do is some kind of WAAC TFG who is ruining everything. And this is especially true if we're talking about a tournament, an activity where the purpose is to find the best player through competition.

And you if you whine and cry because I don't allow you to bend the rules in your favor. It is not "WAAC TFG behavior" to point out that your unit is indisputably 1mm out of range after measuring it carefully, and you aren't entitled to round off that last 1mm in your favor just because you'd really like to get to shoot with that unit. It is not "WAAC TFG behavior" to play the rules as written instead of your "fluffy" interpretation, which conveniently happens to favor your army. And the fact that I tend to be right in rule disputes instead of letting you win half of them just to be "fair" does not mean that I'm the bad guy. And you sure as hell aren't "casual" if you're doing this stuff.

You guys seriously measure down to 1mm? One cm, I guess can see. But 1mm is not far off from the thickness of the metal end of the tape measure.

Quibbling over 1mm sounds pretty TFG to me.

I'm pretty sure he was exagerating to make a point. I have seen people loss their gak because one person measure like 0,5cm more than they should, and have seen people that, to how they measure distances, they could play without a measure tape, because it isn't gonna make a big difference
Both ends of the spectre are equally upsetting to me.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Dunno. If he drives away enough people, he reduces the need to buy his way to victory.
.

If you can point to a real store that goes out of business because somebody kept buying all their stock (at a profit to the owner), you'll be showing me a storeowner so inept that the guy buying stuff had nothing to do with its failure.

I would assume that its because he stopped buying from the store after driving the other players away. No point in continuing to buy out the store to undermine your opponents if you no longer have any opponents. And if the store was relying on the warhammer community as their main revenue stream then its no surprise that they began to struggle after losing it.

 Ketara wrote:

 BrotherGecko wrote:
I forgot about the funniest player I've ever seen in a smallish 40k community. This guy was not very good at the game however you shaked it but he was also competitive so losing was fustrating. His strategy to win? He would buy all the good units at the store to the armies that any of his opponents played. This way nobody got the good stuff to expand their amries with. He ended having an apartment with unopened box towers everywhere. Every week you would go into the store because you knew the day they got stock in and everytime you would find out that the guy showed up early and bought it all.

He ended being a major contributor for the closing of the store from what I remember.

.....the store went under because he bought all the product? Something sounds off about this story....

Forgot that bit that explains how that worked. He would buy all the 40k product on in store credit. He sold magic cards to the store for credit and then bought up all the 40k products people wanted. The store must of been really generous with their trade in because he was always sitting on a ton of credit. Oh! I forgot they also allowed IOUs with him too, he had apparently rich rich parents and so would eventually pay his tab but still basically the store bought magic cards (which never really sold) off of him and then he bought the 40k product, meaning the store never generated any real income.

 privateer4hire wrote:
You guys seriously measure down to 1mm? One cm, I guess can see. But 1mm is not far off from the thickness of the metal end of the tape measure.

Not every game is 40k. This happened in X-Wing, where there are fixed templates for measuring range and a perfectly flat surface to set the template down on. If I can put the range ruler between two ships and it doesn't touch both of them, even by a very tiny margin, you aren't in range. But people would get offended that I'd measure it that carefully instead of just waving the ruler in the general area of the ships and saying "looks close enough, take the shot".

X-Wing, totally fair enough, the range is the range - and provided people are using the stick that come with the game (or have agreed to use Perspex replacements prior to the game) you're right. Either in, or out. And given precision of movement and positioning is what carries the day, that's damned important.

For other game where measurements are a bit more woolly in nature, I can forgive the odd mm here and there. Though it needs to be reciprocal. Nothing worse than an opponent asking for the benefit of the doubt, then being a phallus about your own.

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
I completely agree with Peregrine here, and look no further than Dakka for loads of examples of this type of attitude and behavior.

Yeah. One of the biggest contributors to why I don't play 40k any more. (That and I didn't care for 5th edition rules).

Whatever floats your boat, but I personally find that kind of precise measurement to be tedious and frustrating.

I once played a MTG match with someone who insisted I call out the start and end of every phase as well as every step. He's technically not wrong for requesting me to do so, but it made the game incredibly unfun when he would admonish me for not saying "I started my turn, Entering Draw Phase, Drawing a Card" when I drew a card on reflex after he ended his turn.

In fact double standards are another TFG trait. If they feel something gives them a momentary advantage, they'll demand it. The second said advantage might apply to you, suddenly it's 'by-the-book' or GTFO in general.

Cocked dice, obscure FAQ ruling taken on faith, woolly measurements, wording of a rule, anything.

Classic was prior to 2D6 charges is of course delcaring a unit in or out of Rapid Fire range, then flipping it for the charge, provided it suited them.

One of my least favor TFG moves (because long ago it was me*) is the guy that is jolly while winning but once they are losing its time to check and double double check every last little thing their opponent is doing, making sure the rules are exact and mis-remembering rules were convenient/inconvenient.

*I had a while where I did this sometimes, mostly when playing armies that didn't 'feel' right. And that was because I had delt with tons of cheaters from 3rd edition to 5th edition. People making rules up, people with a extra 100 odd points and people using magical FAQs.

 Peregrine wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:
You guys seriously measure down to 1mm? One cm, I guess can see. But 1mm is not far off from the thickness of the metal end of the tape measure.

Not every game is 40k. This happened in X-Wing, where there are fixed templates for measuring range and a perfectly flat surface to set the template down on. If I can put the range ruler between two ships and it doesn't touch both of them, even by a very tiny margin, you aren't in range. But people would get offended that I'd measure it that carefully instead of just waving the ruler in the general area of the ships and saying "looks close enough, take the shot".

Gotcha. Didn't think it was 40k specifically but since you said 'army' I honestly didn't think X-Wing was what you were describing.

Perhaps not new, but these are the two TFG styles I have encountered in the last six months, the first was new to me and the second has sadly been around since 3ed. Might have been before that but I never made it to a tournament in the good old Rogue Trader or 2ed days.

1. My last AoS tourney my first opponent had an army I had never played against before. Most of the units I could figure out what they did just by looking at them. My opponent started with just one unit on the table though, I really had no idea what it did, so I asked. Apparently this was an invitation for the player to tell me what I needed to be doing during my turn for the entirety of the game. Roll to Hit now, okay roll your Hits to see if they wound. On and on. During my opponents turn of course they were very quiet and just interrupted the dice rolling to tell me how many saves to take or how many mortal wounds they had inflicted. When I asked questions about what unit they were rolling for, who their target was etc., it only seemed to heighten my opponents desire to explain the game to me, no matter how many times I told him I knew how to play, he continued. Annoying as feth, its too bad my compendium old world army couldnt eek out two more VP's against my opponents stormcast 4 deepstriking drakes army. Had never encountered this type before, and I am not particularly fond of it.

2. Seen this many times, but the players who have a hand in organizing "casual" events who label the events as such but inevitably show up with their latest adepticon d*^k list. They of course tell everyone that they don't care if they win or not, they just want to practice. Though they always seem to forget that when it comes to taking prizes for roffle-stomping all the players who brought casual fun lists to an event that was advertised as "Casual and Fun". I don't have a problem with either side of the game coin as far as competitive vs casual. They do draw different crowds though, and luring the one just to beat them over the head with the other doesn't help the community at all.

Just one more though, It kind of offends me when Sylvaneth players bring a bunch of forest templates cut from cheap plywood that they just keep tossing down that they haven't bothered to even paint much less try to find some way for me to look at it and in any way see a forest. I don't doubt it's legal, and I don't care if it is or isn't, it just looks fricking stupid.

I had a guy (4th edition 40k) rage quit a game. In my turn I wanted to shoot my Necron Warriors into his Bloodletters. He decided they were more than 12 inches away, so I only got one shot. On his turn he moved, then tried to assault me, claiming he was just in range.

Now, how they can be more than 12 inches apart in my turn, but less than 12 in his turn is an amazement. I called this out to him, and he had the audacity to call a judge over. He promptly packed up his things as "he was getting cheated".

 cuda1179 wrote:
I had a guy (4th edition 40k) rage quit a game. In my turn I wanted to shoot my Necron Warriors into his Bloodletters. He decided they were more than 12 inches away, so I only got one shot. On his turn he moved, then tried to assault me, claiming he was just in range.

Now, how they can be more than 12 inches apart in my turn, but less than 12 in his turn is an amazement. I called this out to him, and he had the audacity to call a judge over. He promptly packed up his things as "he was getting cheated".

So he moved. That can easily shrink the gap.

 JNAProductions wrote:
So he moved. That can easily shrink the gap.

No it can't. In 4th you only charged 6". So if they started the turn over 12" apart (since he couldn't get the second rapid fire shot) a 6" move plus 6" charge will not get them within charge range. The only way they could have been able to charge is if the chaos player moved more than 6" in their movement phase, which is obviously cheating.

OH! I didn't play in 4th, so I did not know.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I had a guy (4th edition 40k) rage quit a game. In my turn I wanted to shoot my Necron Warriors into his Bloodletters. He decided they were more than 12 inches away, so I only got one shot. On his turn he moved, then tried to assault me, claiming he was just in range.

Now, how they can be more than 12 inches apart in my turn, but less than 12 in his turn is an amazement. I called this out to him, and he had the audacity to call a judge over. He promptly packed up his things as "he was getting cheated".

I've had this happen to me lots of times. A common example is when you purposely deploy 1" back when deployment zones are 24" apart then somehow on turn 2 an enemy unit with a 12" move unit is in charge range (for example) and I just have to ask, how? My unit didn't move, I deployed 1" back, unless the other player cheated there's no way for them to be within range.

I ended up having a long argument with a mate who I normally wouldn't consider a TFG because he was showing me how his unit was in charge range while I was telling him I could see they were in range now, but there's no way they could be unless he cheated in the preceding turn or during deployment.

I think over-moving happens a lot but it's usually pretty subtle. You only really notice when it doesn't make sense.

I've only spotted it once, where an opponent managed to reach a centre objective a turn earlier than I could (I figured they'd still be about an inch away), and even then I'm not sure because it was Malifaux and there are so many special rules that allow crazy movement. I got ROFLstomped anyway but it left a bit of a bad taste.

Haven't really had any other "that guy" incidents, possibly because I don't actually play that much. I got totally tabled in turn 2 against a Tau opponent once, but I think that was just a Tau thing.

I tend to take a pretty relaxed stance on the rules in 40K because it's such a mess anyway, so when my usual opponent bends things a bit in a casual game I don't care. Different matter if it was a tournament or something precise/serious.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
I had a guy (4th edition 40k) rage quit a game. In my turn I wanted to shoot my Necron Warriors into his Bloodletters. He decided they were more than 12 inches away, so I only got one shot. On his turn he moved, then tried to assault me, claiming he was just in range.

Now, how they can be more than 12 inches apart in my turn, but less than 12 in his turn is an amazement. I called this out to him, and he had the audacity to call a judge over. He promptly packed up his things as "he was getting cheated".

I've had this happen to me lots of times. A common example is when you purposely deploy 1" back when deployment zones are 24" apart then somehow on turn 2 an enemy unit with a 12" move unit is in charge range (for example) and I just have to ask, how? My unit didn't move, I deployed 1" back, unless the other player cheated there's no way for them to be within range.

I ended up having a long argument with a mate who I normally wouldn't consider a TFG because he was showing me how his unit was in charge range while I was telling him I could see they were in range now, but there's no way they could be unless he cheated in the preceding turn or during deployment.

Did you measure the table to make sure it was exactly 48" across? At my club we use tables that are closer to 46" or 47" across. Could easily make the difference.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Did you measure the table to make sure it was exactly 48" across? At my club we use tables that are closer to 46" or 47" across. Could easily make the difference.

It shouldn't, because deployment zones are measured 12" from the center line of the table, not 12" in from the edge. A smaller table would make the deployment zones smaller, but still keep a 24" starting distance.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


Did you measure the table to make sure it was exactly 48" across? At my club we use tables that are closer to 46" or 47" across. Could easily make the difference.

Fair point. The boards I use are and extra 0.5" long, which makes the no-man zone a bit wider.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Did you measure the table to make sure it was exactly 48" across? At my club we use tables that are closer to 46" or 47" across. Could easily make the difference.

It shouldn't, because deployment zones are measured 12" from the center line of the table, not 12" in from the edge. A smaller table would make the deployment zones smaller, but still keep a 24" starting distance.

Meaningless post is meaningless. No one does this. People measure from the edge of the board as it's straight and a fixed edge. No one actually looks for the much more nebulous middle of the board and measures back to find the 12" point and then deploys. At best, we'll measure the length of the table and subtract any loss from the deployment zone. Thanks for posting, I guess.

 Ketara wrote:


If you can point to a real store that goes out of business because somebody kept buying all their stock (at a profit to the owner), you'll be showing me a storeowner so inept that the guy buying stuff had nothing to do with its failure.

I can tell you exactly how it happens, because I have a store not far from where I grew up that did the exact same thing.

Dude buys up all the models that do well. Now Store A never has those models. People go to the other stores to buy their models, assuming that Store A sucks at getting stuff in.

Then people find out that Store A is willing to sell to Daddy WAAC Warbucks, knowing exactly why, and think the store owner is more concerned about getting a buck. They take their business elsewhere, because they can find their models and perceive the other FLGS to be more customer-friendly.

There is now less demand at Store A, therefore less product is being sold and less money is being made. The light bill and rent and insurance and taxes can't be paid.

We have a store locally that caters to hyper-competitive teenagers with rich daddies, and they are struggling to keep their heads above water. Same thing.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Quibbling over 1mm sounds pretty TFG to me.

It really is. I can fart and my minis will rattle around 1mm. And I don't mean a quesadilla fart, this is a grilled chicken fart.

Speaking of grilled chicken farts, I had some yesterday...Whoah boy were they nasty...

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Speaking of grilled chicken farts, I had some yesterday...Whoah boy were they nasty...

Also the guy that farts in the FLGS and doesn't fess up to it.

It's not like we're surrounded by chicks that give a damn. Own your stank! Take pride!

Speak for yourself, I'd rather that if they needed to they did so outside or in the bathroom for the place as I'd never set foot into it anyway.

Our Dungeons and Dragons session was cancelled last night, so I dodged a bullet there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 n0t_u wrote:
Speak for yourself, I'd rather that if they needed to they did so outside or in the bathroom for the place as I'd never set foot into it anyway.

If I farted in my club, people would regard it as a challenge.

at least if someone tells you, you can open a window or a door.

And the bathroom isn't much to help, either. It's right next to the game room.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
at least if someone tells you, you can open a window or a door.

And the bathroom isn't much to help, either. It's right next to the game room.

We don't have that problem. The toilet in the community centre where we run our club is at the end of a corridor, and has an industrial grade extraction fan that will feth up your hearing.

 kronk wrote:
Meaningless post is meaningless. No one does this. People measure from the edge of the board as it's straight and a fixed edge. No one actually looks for the much more nebulous middle of the board and measures back to find the 12" point and then deploys. At best, we'll measure the length of the table and subtract any loss from the deployment zone. Thanks for posting, I guess.

Thanks for being rude about it, but you're still missing the point. If we're in a situation where a model is "in range" but, due to other measurements, we know that it can't be legally in range unless someone took a little extra distance somewhere (whether deliberately or accidentally) and so the only acceptable thing to do is nudge the model back a bit and accept that it isn't in range. You should not be allowed to take advantage of measuring carelessly when setting up your deployment zone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Then people find out that Store A is willing to sell to Daddy WAAC Warbucks, knowing exactly why, and think the store owner is more concerned about getting a buck.

What are they supposed to do, say "you're not allowed to buy this because someone else might want it"? Of course a store is going to sell a product to whoever wants to buy it. You can't expect them to turn down sales and keep a box sitting on the shelf just in case you decide that you want one at some point. That's not how business works.

Yes but on the other hand he's a toxic customer who drive's away other customers. Its a Catch 22.

That guy who talks like he's better than everyone else and randomly insults your personal mannerisms like he's not even bothered about gaming with you so much as he undermining your sense of self, when I was younger it really used to get to me, now that I'm getting into the hobby again I'll just focus on building a good army and take satisfaction from wiping the table with them.

Honestly, the more I think about it the less I believe the story about the "buy it all" guy. These are normal GW kits we're talking about, with effectively unlimited supply. Even if someone cleans out a store's entire inventory you can still very easily get them with a special order, buy direct from GW, etc. The worst that is going to happen is that you have to wait a few days for your kit to arrive instead of taking it home that day. So one of two things must be true here:

1) This guy is willing to throw away large amounts of money to create a minor inconvenience, without ever changing the end result of what gets into anyone's army. This seems more like a parody of a TFG than anything that would ever happen in the real world, at least without some serious mental issues that go way beyond a mere WAAC attitude.

or

2) The guy is buying the stuff he legitimately wants, and because he's a competitive player this is usually the most powerful units. In this case his purchases are legitimate, and you're the one with behavior issues if you insist on insulting him for not giving up on buying the stuff he wants just in case you might want to buy it someday.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Speaking of grilled chicken farts, I had some yesterday...Whoah boy were they nasty...

Three day old Rabbit Vindaloo.

That bloke's guffs cleared no less than three shops.

 Peregrine wrote:
Honestly, the more I think about it the less I believe the story about the "buy it all" guy. These are normal GW kits we're talking about, with effectively unlimited supply. Even if someone cleans out a store's entire inventory you can still very easily get them with a special order, buy direct from GW, etc. The worst that is going to happen is that you have to wait a few days for your kit to arrive instead of taking it home that day. So one of two things must be true here:

1) This guy is willing to throw away large amounts of money to create a minor inconvenience, without ever changing the end result of what gets into anyone's army. This seems more like a parody of a TFG than anything that would ever happen in the real world, at least without some serious mental issues that go way beyond a mere WAAC attitude.

or

2) The guy is buying the stuff he legitimately wants, and because he's a competitive player this is usually the most powerful units. In this case his purchases are legitimate, and you're the one with behavior issues if you insist on insulting him for not giving up on buying the stuff he wants just in case you might want to buy it someday.

We were in Kansas, it was this store or you could drive 3 hours East or West to another store. Buying direct from the store was a crap shoot. Sometimes the owner wouldn't put in the order for days unless you paid up front for it and even then you might learn he used that money for other things. I ordered online, but that didn't help the store any. The guy bought everything his parents were upper crust Chinese millionaires (in China), he was in the military to get citizenship (maybe never asked) so money wasn't an issue for him. As I said, his appartment was filled with unopened boxes to every army imaginable, literal stacks of boxes but he only played one army ever.

He didn't have a mental issue but he like many in the military had poor impulse control with money and tried to strategize it. Its a crazy store for sure but I'm not exaggerating it, he really did do this until he was barred from it. By then the store was on its way out for the most part, I think it scraped by for another 6 months before it went under (I wasn't living there anymore).

Has anyone ever had the "I never finish a game" guy? We had a guy for a while that would show up, play 75 to 90% of a game, and then decide that was enough for him and leave. Now, if this is a friendly match it's a tad annoying unless it's REALLY obvious who is going to win. When it is in a tournament where you get points depending on how great your victory is, it's a pain in the butt.

Games were supposed to be 2 hours long after deployment. I faced him twice in the same tournament and each time he conceded less than an hour into the game. Due to how this tournament was set up you just kept a running total of your victory points, and if anyone conceded you only got the victory points you accumulated at that point. This meant that I ended up being 5th place, when realistically I should have been about 3rd.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Has anyone ever had the "I never finish a game" guy? We had a guy for a while that would show up, play 75 to 90% of a game, and then decide that was enough for him and leave. Now, if this is a friendly match it's a tad annoying unless it's REALLY obvious who is going to win. When it is in a tournament where you get points depending on how great your victory is, it's a pain in the butt.

One of the guys (who coincidentally, I've already mentioned earlier ITT) does this... He gets seriously, over the top pissed at his models, starts literally throwing dice and gak. Which makes it all the more unpleasant to play against him. But the thing you mention, this guy apparently works on Saturday, and ALWAYS wants to play 2k+ point games, but rarely do any of his games make it to, or through turn 3 in part because of his rage quitting and part because of having to go to work.

I believe that a common "That Guy" is one who is playing a very different game than what was originally agreed.

- The WAAC: rules are whatever they think I can get away with... I have played a couple. Somehow if someone is not clear on rules or are insecure, it is permission to change rules at will with these folk. I do not like bullies and applying that to a fun pastime seems a crime.

- The "Scrub" they run on different rules than the game: "that is cheesy", "that is unfair", "that is cheap!", "that is not fun to play that way!", "that's a no skill way to play", "I play for fun". Somehow even though you are following the rules you are doing it wrong in their eyes. Honestly, you cannot make a list they would agree to unless it looks like you would clearly lose.

Both of the above people have never lost a "fair" game... ever.

But I will describe myself as an unintentional "that guy" I will blame on advancing age:

- I remember rules incredibly well, from prior revisions. Highly irritating misremembering rules that get muddled as they all blur into each other. I have tabs all over my BRB and crib notes with "hey! remember this rule so you do not embarrass yourself." Some find it hilarious, others are thinking the old guy is getting senile. 48 this year... cut me some slack.

- I mainly play at my house or my various friend's houses and do not much care for the FLGS games so I am that guy wandering around chatting up a bit about the game and almost no-one there has seen me play. They are unsure of what to make of me. I DO buy stuff there and have played in other venues but this one is really deep in the fluff zone. I tend to keep my hands clear of my pockets and do not touch people... I have two kids that are beginning to go to the FLGS and I do not want to embarrass them.

- My game setup time is horrible. I organize my squads ahead of time, got everything printed out and yet, all original plans for engaging the enemy goes into analysis paralysis and I have to repeat the mantra "It is just a game, deployment does not have to be perfect." Yet I see myself get "punished" with each time I set up. It all goes quick after that but opponents clearly look like they think this is a mistake until we get going. "What is the scenario rules again? Let me look that up.. hmmm...". Total amnesia of game setup rules.

Yeah, so I give the impression of the guy that means well and is rather silly until I get into the game and "it all comes back" and they revise their strategy of going easy on me and they wonder if it was all an act. I remember all my opponents fondly, each of you bring something to teach me even if it may be "patience".

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
I had a guy (4th edition 40k) rage quit a game. In my turn I wanted to shoot my Necron Warriors into his Bloodletters. He decided they were more than 12 inches away, so I only got one shot. On his turn he moved, then tried to assault me, claiming he was just in range.

Now, how they can be more than 12 inches apart in my turn, but less than 12 in his turn is an amazement. I called this out to him, and he had the audacity to call a judge over. He promptly packed up his things as "he was getting cheated".

I've had this happen to me lots of times. A common example is when you purposely deploy 1" back when deployment zones are 24" apart then somehow on turn 2 an enemy unit with a 12" move unit is in charge range (for example) and I just have to ask, how? My unit didn't move, I deployed 1" back, unless the other player cheated there's no way for them to be within range.

I ended up having a long argument with a mate who I normally wouldn't consider a TFG because he was showing me how his unit was in charge range while I was telling him I could see they were in range now, but there's no way they could be unless he cheated in the preceding turn or during deployment.

Did you measure the table to make sure it was exactly 48" across? At my club we use tables that are closer to 46" or 47" across. Could easily make the difference.

I always put a measuring tape down set to 24" to make sure deployment zones are 24" apart, then place a couple of dice at that distance for reference. None of our boards are exactly 48" so we just make sure the deployment zones are 24" apart regardless.

Honestly that's what I thought everyone did So many weapons have a 24" range that having deployment zones 24" apart is kind of important for controlling what is range early on.

In WHFB most units had a movement range that was a factor of 24, so I'd often move units 0.5" less to know I'd be out of charge range on a given turn, then magically the opponent somehow managed to pull an inch out of his backside to clearly be within charge range

The other over-moving you see a lot of is the "I'll just move this one guy the allotted 6", put down the ruler and then move the rest of the unit around him" and somehow you magically get some guys flying 10". I've called people out on that one a couple of time because I've seen people use a broadly spread screening unit that manages to get clear at the right time because some guys are moving close to twice as far as they should.

 Peregrine wrote:
What are they supposed to do, say "you're not allowed to buy this because someone else might want it"? Of course a store is going to sell a product to whoever wants to buy it. You can't expect them to turn down sales and keep a box sitting on the shelf just in case you decide that you want one at some point. That's not how business works.

I'm well aware of how business works. You know how to get around this?

You let your customers know when your shipments are coming in. You can actually deny a sale to someone, too.

Because if this guy's buying up the new cool models as they come out, from a small store- people just carry their business elsewhere. Where they have stock. Again, sooner or later the demand's going to go down. The gaming is going to stop. That guy won't need to buy any models, then. And then the business is done.

That's how a business works, FYI.

Edit: Now that he mentions it was a military town, I'll clue you in- ordering fragile things like GW models to get to your mailing address at the barracks is asking for a crushed box and broken models- sometimes even lost items.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I always put a measuring tape down set to 24" to make sure deployment zones are 24" apart, then place a couple of dice at that distance for reference. None of our boards are exactly 48" so we just make sure the deployment zones are 24" apart regardless.

Honestly that's what I thought everyone did.

Only in Tournaments, and typically only when my opponents remind me why its necessary. Ordinarily it just doesn't occur to me, its more natural, quicker and easier to just measure in from the board edge.

However I almost exclusively play miniature wargames in a friendly setting now and rarely attend tournaments.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
What are they supposed to do, say "you're not allowed to buy this because someone else might want it"? Of course a store is going to sell a product to whoever wants to buy it. You can't expect them to turn down sales and keep a box sitting on the shelf just in case you decide that you want one at some point. That's not how business works.

I'm well aware of how business works. You know how to get around this?

You let your customers know when your shipments are coming in. You can actually deny a sale to someone, too.

Because if this guy's buying up the new cool models as they come out, from a small store- people just carry their business elsewhere. Where they have stock. Again, sooner or later the demand's going to go down. The gaming is going to stop. That guy won't need to buy any models, then. And then the business is done.

That's how a business works, FYI.

Edit: Now that he mentions it was a military town, I'll clue you in- ordering fragile things like GW models to get to your mailing address at the barracks is asking for a crushed box and broken models- sometimes even lost items.

This is generally up to the store to manage, which is why good ones tend to have a "one per customer" limit on hot items so one person can't be a weenier about it and come in, buy the whole stock, and the scalp it back to everyone else. Even if it's not a limited edition, unless they're really low on stock, a store will generally go "you've had enough buddy", albeit politely. I have yet to see any store gleefully sell out their entire inventory of an item to a single person without a shipment coming in the next day unless it's the last handful left.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

This is generally up to the store to manage, which is why good ones tend to have a "one per customer" limit on hot items so one person can't be a weenier about it and come in, buy the whole stock, and the scalp it back to everyone else. Even if it's not a limited edition, unless they're really low on stock, a store will generally go "you've had enough buddy", albeit politely. I have yet to see any store gleefully sell out their entire inventory of an item to a single person without a shipment coming in the next day unless it's the last handful left.

Yeah, I'm thinking this store wasn't well-managed. Our local places are pretty good about making sure scalpers don't get their hands on all the stock. New releases are kept behind the counter on a display, and you have to ask for them.

One exception was made to someone buying up a massive amount of models- one guy bought a ton of the Shadow War terrain... he's bringing it back to the store once it's painted and letting people sign it out.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

This is generally up to the store to manage, which is why good ones tend to have a "one per customer" limit on hot items so one person can't be a weenier about it and come in, buy the whole stock, and the scalp it back to everyone else. Even if it's not a limited edition, unless they're really low on stock, a store will generally go "you've had enough buddy", albeit politely. I have yet to see any store gleefully sell out their entire inventory of an item to a single person without a shipment coming in the next day unless it's the last handful left.

Yeah, I'm thinking this store wasn't well-managed. Our local places are pretty good about making sure scalpers don't get their hands on all the stock. New releases are kept behind the counter on a display, and you have to ask for them.

One exception was made to someone buying up a massive amount of models- one guy bought a ton of the Shadow War terrain... he's bringing it back to the store once it's painted and letting people sign it out.

It was terribly managed, arguably the worst I have ever seen. Owner was a really nice guy an all but it only goes so far. Besides after he used my direct order money to pay other bills and I had to wait half a month for something that should have taken about a week at best, I stopped bothering. I wasn't the only one had it happened to. So if he had stock in that I wanted then I would buy, but that was obviously pretty rare. Often his stock was just the stuff the TFG sold back for in store credit to buy more magic cards which he then would sell the magic cards to buy more 40k. Eventually he got banned from the practice but as I said, it was basically too little too late by then.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I always put a measuring tape down set to 24" to make sure deployment zones are 24" apart, then place a couple of dice at that distance for reference. None of our boards are exactly 48" so we just make sure the deployment zones are 24" apart regardless.

Honestly that's what I thought everyone did.

Only in Tournaments, and typically only when my opponents remind me why its necessary. Ordinarily it just doesn't occur to me, its more natural, quicker and easier to just measure in from the board edge.

However I almost exclusively play miniature wargames in a friendly setting now and rarely attend tournaments.

I almost never play tournaments and pretty much exclusively play friendly matches. Sometimes I measure from the board edge as well but I always measure the board if I'm going to do that because the key distance is the one between the armies, not the distance to the board edge. So if I want to measure from the board edge I just measure, subtract 24, divide by 2 and round down.

Even though I only really play friendly games, that's the way I've done it since I was about 12 at some point in the mid 90's Basically after I discovered I could win or lose depending on which turn my short ranged units could get in range of my opponent's long ranged units, whether or not my flyers could move far enough to get out of LOS of my opponent's missile units, whether or not my opponent's cavalry will be able to charge on turn 1 or turn 2, etc etc.

I've got one!

"That Guy" who puts all his eggs in one giant deathstar unit and then concedes the moment it dies, leading to 10 minute games where he either wins or dies and sulks.

Yup. It's pretty straight forward business running.

Customer A is one to spend, spend, spend. They account for maybe £1,000.00 of sales in a month. Unfortunately, they're also quite obnoxious in one or more of a variety of ways.

Your other customers? Well they're fairly close knit, but like most nerds are open to others joining their group. You've got maybe 10 of them, all spending around £250 a month each on average (over the course of a year). Except....fewer of them attend regularly because of Customer A....

Customer A is so obnoxious that they enjoy beating on the noobs, which isn't exactly helping, as they're preventing new customer bases from developing - so far he's concerned, his money make him not just King of your shop, but King of the local scene. Be it 40k, MtG, Warmahordes, X-Wing or whatevs, he knows he can pay to win, and he does so. And that win is all he cares about.

So what do you do? Simple. First you have a word with Customer A, at least try to explain his impact. If that doesn't work (and perhaps surprisingly, it often does) you restrict what you sell him. If he kicks off, ban him. Yes you take that hit in the first few months, but you can replace those takings.

 Peregrine wrote:
What are they supposed to do, say "you're not allowed to buy this because someone else might want it"? Of course a store is going to sell a product to whoever wants to buy it. You can't expect them to turn down sales and keep a box sitting on the shelf just in case you decide that you want one at some point. That's not how business works.

How about the " I play the most abusive list of the cheesiest army of this edition, but I claim it's all hype. All other armies are over powered though".


I knew a couple guys that ran almost identical Iron Warriors lists with the 3.5 Chaos codex. One admitted it was his tournament list, the other just used it as his take-all comers list. Even when he got the win he'd claim my pre-codex necron were broken because they "almost beat him".


The "I don't know what a fluffy army is" guy. I don't care if your army is fluffy or not, just don't claim the three riptide and scatterbike spam list conforms to some Craftworld doctrine.


The "I'm a tactical marvel" guy when you're army basically runs itself. What edition had the unkillable Faclon? I remember in that edition a guy loaded up on Falcons and thought it he was the best ever because no one could kill him.

 cuda1179 wrote:

The "I'm a tactical marvel" guy when you're army basically runs itself. What edition had the unkillable Faclon? I remember in that edition a guy loaded up on Falcons and thought it he was the best ever because no one could kill him.

Was that 4th? I can remember that Skimmers had some very good benefits in that edition such as automatically dropping all penetrating hits to glancing hits if they moved over 6".

Definitely 4th. On top of Skimmers being more broke than a 30k player with no self control, the Eldar also had some funky wargear that 1.) Eliminated the one weakness Skimmers had (death upon immobilization after traveling a certain distance), 2.) forced your opponent to roll 2 dice on the vehicle damage chart and apply the lowest of the two results (which means usually you only had to worry about shaken or stunned, and yes they had the generic item that downgraded stunned to shaken too) and 3.) they had something that basically copied the current rules for Flat Out. However, back then Flat Out worked more like WHFB's March (double movement) so this combined with that basically leapt your falcon out of range of most weapons.

If you're talking about using the 3rd edition codex with the 4th edition core rules, it gets even more hilarious. The Crystal Targetting Matrix lets Falcons do the "Move Shoot Move" shenanigans Tau Battlesuits enjoy....except all in the movement phase. And yes, the Star Engines were still a thing back then. They were basically Riptides before Riptides were a thing.

Not a negative experience really, and I thought the guy was funny.

So I walk into the local game store for the first time to look at prices for Warmachine/40k and theres a guy opening a Dragons of Tarkir booster box a few tables away. I think it was release day, and I go over to browse the Warmachine stuff and the guy stands up screaming at the top of his lungs, holding a card in the air. He runs around the table does a knee slide through the middle of the store screaming the entire time, goes over to the counter, puts it down and sprints out the door. He came in a few minutes later with his wife or something and publicly apologized. I guess he got some valuable card, don't know what it was. They said the name but I didn't catch it. But I don't think I have ever seen anyone so happy over a game. I actually wanted to come back more often if people got that passionate.

nareik wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
7- The guy that rags on you when you concede the game, because it is mathematically/logistically impossible for you to win. Sorry, dude- other people want to use the tables and I'm not going to spend another hour letting you blast my dudes to death when you have a 5-point lead.

In fairness, sometimes the story isn't about whether you lose, but how.

I've done the "Nearly entire army in reserve" "Pass" "Pass" and sitting in the open I was forced by a TO to play out a game. It was a comp score RTT for 40k. I was 0-3 with an extremely fluff 1500 point "One of every unit Chaos Daemons" that I just finished painting and was showing off. I asked if I could concede and give him a win and grab food since we skipped lunch. TO wouldn't have it, played out. Opponent wanted a serious game and I wasn't feeling it. Burned an hour trying to get my army killed and had a few laughs.

 BigWaaagh wrote:
The guy that puts his food and gak all over the table top while playing

I'm actually guilty of this (due to working until 4 P.M., seeing my family for 45 minutes, and then grabbing Taco Bell or something for a game at 5). However, I always try to be respectful and orderly when eating, at least trying to finish while my buddy sets up terrain.

 Stevefamine wrote:

nareik wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
7- The guy that rags on you when you concede the game, because it is mathematically/logistically impossible for you to win. Sorry, dude- other people want to use the tables and I'm not going to spend another hour letting you blast my dudes to death when you have a 5-point lead.

In fairness, sometimes the story isn't about whether you lose, but how.

I've done the "Nearly entire army in reserve" "Pass" "Pass" and sitting in the open I was forced by a TO to play out a game. It was a comp score RTT for 40k. I was 0-3 with an extremely fluff 1500 point "One of every unit Chaos Daemons" that I just finished painting and was showing off. I asked if I could concede and give him a win and grab food since we skipped lunch. TO wouldn't have it, played out. Opponent wanted a serious game and I wasn't feeling it. Burned an hour trying to get my army killed and had a few laughs.

I had a game in 5th with Blood Angels where my entire army except one assault squad started in reserve. I hid them and my opponent couldn't see or touch them. Nothing wanted to come in from reserve. He just kind of stood there until my stuff did arrive...then just gummed up his objective while I sat my AMs on the one they had. I won, and he did nothing. Boring and crap game for both of us. It was a tourney too. I apologized over and over again, cuz there was no fun to be had that game. His only way of getting across the board did get blown up turn one to a suicide sternguard squad in a forced drop pod.

I had a game once where one of the pieces of terrain was a very tall pillar with a small flat area on top, just large enough for one model. An objective marker got placed up there, and a vindicare assassin got deployed on it. Since there was no way to move up there (got to stay one inch away), no way to assault him, and my opponent's long range weapons got nuked early on, the assassin was basically untouchable. I definitely felt like TFG for that game.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
So, all of these are actual people I've had to deal with in the last 2/3 years, and a few from long before.

1- The guy that brings his Warhound Titan to the store, and sits it down in front of him and gloats that no one has 'the balls' to go up against him. Sorry, Jack- the rest of us would rather throw money into an army so we can find people who will play a game with us.

2- The guy that doesn't shower/bathe. I've said it a thousand times: If you find yourself wondering if you should take a shower, the answer is: WASH YOUR ASS.

3- The Proxy-Master that doesn't WYSIWYG at all. Sorry, I can't remember which one of these armless torsos is supposed to be the guy with a heavy bolter and I'm not going to just let you dictate that once you start taking casualties. Go get some glue and bits or borrow a model.

4- The guy that doesn't play 40k any more, shows up to talk about how much he hates 40k now, and generally spends no money or does nothing but gripe.

5- The kid born in 1997 that talks about how 'awesome' squats were.

6- The Crusader for the Autistic guy. Look, I have zero problems with the Autistic Guy, it's not his fault, and I don't ridicule him. But I'm not going to play with someone that punches themselves in the head and starts screaming over a bad dice roll, and I'm not going to have some guy telling me how I should feel bad for the Autistic Guy and play with him. It's pretty hard to guilt-trip me, and my personal comfort comes first.

7- The guy that rags on you when you concede the game, because it is mathematically/logistically impossible for you to win. Sorry, dude- other people want to use the tables and I'm not going to spend another hour letting you blast my dudes to death when you have a 5-point lead.

8- The guy that doesn't have a Codex (in any shape, form, or fashion) but wants to play against you. No.

10- The Guy that paid double for a professionally painted army, because he can't paint- and talks trash about how bad other peoples' armies look.

A few years ago, during the MTG pre-release for "Battle for Zendikar", I encountered my first "That Guy".

We'd just finished creating our decks from our pre-release packs and gotten our first match opponents. I quickly found my seat and waited for the person I was to play against. Slowly, from the corner of my eye, I saw him approach.

Off-white plain T-Shirt with yellowed pit stains and some holes, tucked into tight sweatpants over a massive belly, sandals which displayed unkempt toenails and far too much hair for any one man's toes. Crowning his head were a few wisps of greasy hair.

He sat upon his chair, there was an audible creak as the poor piece of furniture threatened to give way beneath him. The smell that oozed from his massive frame was a mix between urine, old milk, and lunch meat.

Along with his deck, he bore a footlong sandwich from subway which he proceeded to eat while we played, I do not believe I've ever seen so much mayonnaise on a single lunch item before...

He gazed at me, with a look of boredom and tiredness. I tried to introduce myself, he replied with a "yeah, ok".
Every time I would explain what I was doing on my turn he would respond with "yeah, that's the way things work"
Each time the turn passed, gas also was passed, the odor of sour milk got worse, and worse with each turn.

I was actually thankful when the round was over, I was half-tempted to scoop early, because the smell was making me ill. I offered the traditional, "thanks for the game!", was was met with a blank stare as he slowly lumbered away to his next victim....a poor gal whose chest he just stared at.

I never did see that mythical creature again, I can only assume he was called home to papa nurgle's side.

 HunterEste wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
So, all of these are actual people I've had to deal with in the last 2/3 years, and a few from long before.

1- The guy that brings his Warhound Titan to the store, and sits it down in front of him and gloats that no one has 'the balls' to go up against him. Sorry, Jack- the rest of us would rather throw money into an army so we can find people who will play a game with us.

2- The guy that doesn't shower/bathe. I've said it a thousand times: If you find yourself wondering if you should take a shower, the answer is: WASH YOUR ASS.

3- The Proxy-Master that doesn't WYSIWYG at all. Sorry, I can't remember which one of these armless torsos is supposed to be the guy with a heavy bolter and I'm not going to just let you dictate that once you start taking casualties. Go get some glue and bits or borrow a model.

4- The guy that doesn't play 40k any more, shows up to talk about how much he hates 40k now, and generally spends no money or does nothing but gripe.

5- The kid born in 1997 that talks about how 'awesome' squats were.

6- The Crusader for the Autistic guy. Look, I have zero problems with the Autistic Guy, it's not his fault, and I don't ridicule him. But I'm not going to play with someone that punches themselves in the head and starts screaming over a bad dice roll, and I'm not going to have some guy telling me how I should feel bad for the Autistic Guy and play with him. It's pretty hard to guilt-trip me, and my personal comfort comes first.

7- The guy that rags on you when you concede the game, because it is mathematically/logistically impossible for you to win. Sorry, dude- other people want to use the tables and I'm not going to spend another hour letting you blast my dudes to death when you have a 5-point lead.

8- The guy that doesn't have a Codex (in any shape, form, or fashion) but wants to play against you. No.

10- The Guy that paid double for a professionally painted army, because he can't paint- and talks trash about how bad other peoples' armies look.

A few years ago, during the MTG pre-release for "Battle for Zendikar", I encountered my first "That Guy".

We'd just finished creating our decks from our pre-release packs and gotten our first match opponents. I quickly found my seat and waited for the person I was to play against. Slowly, from the corner of my eye, I saw him approach.

Off-white plain T-Shirt with yellowed pit stains and some holes, tucked into tight sweatpants over a massive belly, sandals which displayed unkempt toenails and far too much hair for any one man's toes. Crowning his head were a few wisps of greasy hair.

He sat upon his chair, there was an audible creak as the poor piece of furniture threatened to give way beneath him. The smell that oozed from his massive frame was a mix between urine, old milk, and lunch meat.

Along with his deck, he bore a footlong sandwich from subway which he proceeded to eat while we played, I do not believe I've ever seen so much mayonnaise on a single lunch item before...

He gazed at me, with a look of boredom and tiredness. I tried to introduce myself, he replied with a "yeah, ok".
Every time I would explain what I was doing on my turn he would respond with "yeah, that's the way things work"
Each time the turn passed, gas also was passed, the odor of sour milk got worse, and worse with each turn.

I was actually thankful when the round was over, I was half-tempted to scoop early, because the smell was making me ill. I offered the traditional, "thanks for the game!", was was met with a blank stare as he slowly lumbered away to his next victim....a poor gal whose chest he just stared at.

I never did see that mythical creature again, I can only assume he was called home to papa nurgle's side.

Artist rendition of the game. Had you only realized that you had no nose.

 BrotherGecko wrote:

Spoiler:

Artist rendition of the game. Had you only realized that you had no nose.

Hah! That's perfect!

I know other folks here will disagree, but I'm not a fan of competitive lists. In a tournament, or practising for one, that's excellent. Power to you. But if you rock up with an ultra-cheesy list looking to grind down a newbie stranger with their Dark Vengeance set, you are kind of a . I won't whinge or moan during the match, I just simply won't play you. I don't see the point in playing that kind of unbalanced game. Hell, I feel guilty about taking a Vendetta when so few people in our area have flyers or anti-air of their own.

We used to have one guy that would wait until opponent wrote up a list, or already had a pre-written one, and then write up his own to specifically counter it. Other than that the folks in my area are generally good people, at least the ones I play regularly with. I do kind of wish some of the guys in my local store weren't so... cringe? There's no need to speak that loud indoors, and no need to go dead silent or stare awkwardly when a female enters the room. Good god, men. Have you never seen a woman before?

 kronk wrote:


Meaningless post is meaningless. No one does this. People measure from the edge of the board as it's straight and a fixed edge. No one actually looks for the much more nebulous middle of the board and measures back to find the 12" point and then deploys. At best, we'll measure the length of the table and subtract any loss from the deployment zone. Thanks for posting, I guess.

I do this. The boards at our FLGS are a little thinner than most so to ensure we don't have first turn assaults and other munchkinry that is fully possible with less than 24" gaps, we mark out a line in the middle then measure 12 each way to the deployment zones. We usually use dice or somesuch to act as an indicator. Deployment zones are a little more cramped but it works.

It's not exactly difficult, you just measure the board width and then halve that.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I had a guy (4th edition 40k) rage quit a game. In my turn I wanted to shoot my Necron Warriors into his Bloodletters. He decided they were more than 12 inches away, so I only got one shot. On his turn he moved, then tried to assault me, claiming he was just in range.

Now, how they can be more than 12 inches apart in my turn, but less than 12 in his turn is an amazement. I called this out to him, and he had the audacity to call a judge over. He promptly packed up his things as "he was getting cheated".

I've had this happen to me. I was more entertained by their mental gymnastics than being genuinely outraged. In my Following turn I made sure to move up the unit that would have been charged so as to be as close as legally possible, just off 1" away, to his would-be charging unit by the time my assault phase came around. I leaned in and scrutinised the two units for a moment, looked up at him and said "Do you reckon they are in range?"

God bless him he actually checked.

I saw a mechanic walking out of GW with a box of toy soldiers in hand.

He was also on his phone to a customer telling them their car isn't too bad but they would need a little extra work done.

I wonder if he was 'that guy' and was upselling an unnecessary service so he would have the spare dosh to get some more space soldiers?!

nareik wrote:
I saw a mechanic walking out of GW with a box of toy soldiers in hand.

He was also on his phone to a customer telling them their car isn't too bad but they would need a little extra work done.

I wonder if he was 'that guy' and was upselling an unnecessary service so he would have the spare dosh to get some more space soldiers?!

Oh snap! I just spent $100 more than I meant to! "Hey John, your car needs 2 gallons of left blinker fluid. Uh huh. It's super expensive and rare, but I have some. No worries, I got your back." Whew. That was close!

 kronk wrote:

nareik wrote:
I saw a mechanic walking out of GW with a box of toy soldiers in hand.

He was also on his phone to a customer telling them their car isn't too bad but they would need a little extra work done.

I wonder if he was 'that guy' and was upselling an unnecessary service so he would have the spare dosh to get some more space soldiers?!

Oh snap! I just spent $100 more than I meant to! "Hey John, your car needs 2 gallons of left blinker fluid. Uh huh. It's super expensive and rare, but I have some. No worries, I got your back." Whew. That was close!

Hey... those new Tau battlesuits are pretty shiny... "Dave? Yeah I'm afraid you have a problem with both phalanges. Uh-huh, yeah, I know. Well luckily I know a guy who can get them direct from the factory. Mhmm, no problem buddy."

 kronk wrote:
He'd rub his hand that was WAY in his pocket.

"feth off, we're playing a game", said Kronk, and he left my table alone. We told the owner about him, and he said "yeah, that guy is creepy. He buys a lot, though." Dude was arrested for trying to solicit sex from a teen boy at the store some months later and the dad called the cops on him.

At that point, I'd add the store owner to the "That Guy" list.

I've thankfully not encountered too many of Those Guys, but there was one guy we used to game with who was incapable of playing straight, I think; he'd move models an extra inch, "forget" his army list, roll dice of the table, not mark damage on stat cards, etc. If you knew him it was OK - we all knew to point out "Oh, I think you've moved that model too far" and the like, but in retrospect, it was a bit shameful.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

 kronk wrote:
He'd rub his hand that was WAY in his pocket.

"feth off, we're playing a game", said Kronk, and he left my table alone. We told the owner about him, and he said "yeah, that guy is creepy. He buys a lot, though." Dude was arrested for trying to solicit sex from a teen boy at the store some months later and the dad called the cops on him.

At that point, I'd add the store owner to the "That Guy" list.

I did, too.

I got one,
The Judge that is very bad, very few like, and is horrible......Ok not weird....
And Threatens suicide if he is no longer judge because it is his only will to function.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I got one,
The Judge that is very bad, very few like, and is horrible......Ok not weird....
And Threatens suicide if he is no longer judge because it is his only will to function.

Only response:
"I can tell you are really upset right now, and I want to help, but it will probably be best you not be judge due to the pressures involved."
"I don’t want you to be judge just because I am afraid of you dying and you think you can’t live without it."
"The position should be based on mutual love for the game, not threats."
"I am sorry you feel that way, but I can’t stop you from making this choice, even though I wish I could."
This is both somewhat a serious response and a slight mockery because wow, life is hard if you want to be a judge for a game to the point of suicide.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I got one,
The Judge that is very bad, very few like, and is horrible......Ok not weird....
And Threatens suicide if he is no longer judge because it is his only will to function.

See if anyone ever blurted this out to me I would pull up a chair, grab some crisps, and tell him "I'm silently judging you."

I have seen enough actual suicides in my life that I am fully out of tosses to give to people who threatens it for silly reasons.

If I might offer a Magic the Gathering example, I was playing a game of Highlander Elder Dragon/Commander with three other people a few weeks ago, and one guy asked if it was alright if he used some proxies and we were like that's fine. Its Commander. Getting the physical cards to actually fill out a working deck is expensive.

Of course none of us thought that "some proxies" meant "I copied a tournament deck and proxied nearly everything that isn't a common." Needless to say he didn't last long when he got grudged out of the game which to his credit he was a good sport about.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Whatever floats your boat, but I personally find that kind of precise measurement to be tedious and frustrating.

I once played a MTG match with someone who insisted I call out the start and end of every phase as well as every step. He's technically not wrong for requesting me to do so, but it made the game incredibly unfun when he would admonish me for not saying "I started my turn, Entering Draw Phase, Drawing a Card" when I drew a card on reflex after he ended his turn.

I hate this as well. Usually if I'm doing something goofy, I'll wait until I know the phase I want has just ended and say "before you start your end step I will X" and I can't say I've ever had issues with that. It's the most practical way as far as I can tell to do some of the more sly moves in Magic.

Most of my truly awful 'that guy' experiences have been from either GW managers or staff that I've had the misfortune to play with.

I've got to say that, I'm not the only one who has read through this thread questioning, "that could be me, right?"

 Compel wrote:
Most of my truly awful 'that guy' experiences have been from either GW managers or staff that I've had the misfortune to play with.

I've got to say that, I'm not the only one who has read through this thread questioning, "that could be me, right?"

Well I hope to god we can all say we're not an ogre with a yellow pit stained shirt who walks around the store staring at women's chests XD

So see? We could all be worse!

Ofcourse not, I do that where your supposed to, at the bar!!!!

We had one guy at a store who would pick his nose quite openly and then ask to play games and would try and move your models for you (and not in a cheating way just trying to be helpful). So not super TFG, but would fall into the personal hygiene category quite well.

 Ustrello wrote:
We had one guy at a store who would pick his nose quite openly and then ask to play games and would try and move your models for you (and not in a cheating way just trying to be helpful). So not super TFG, but would fall into the personal hygiene category quite well.

Call me weird, I actually find this worse than TFG. TFG I can just catalog and freely ignore later because feth that not worth it.

But this is an otherwise nice, maybe even great guy, who just has an unfortunate or obnoxious habit. I don't want to write him off like TFG because he's not a bad person he doesn't really deserve that, but I also don't want boogers all over my stuff so your its just awkward and weird and really messes with your head space. In this case you can just politely ask to move your own models, which hopefully any reasonable person can respect, but then there's Billy the Great Guy who is always full of helpful and cool advice, knows all the rules verbatum and happily saves people the time of flipping and is an all around joy... Until he turns his back to you and his fat crack is slapping in the air as he waddles away

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I got one,
The Judge that is very bad, very few like, and is horrible......Ok not weird....
And Threatens suicide if he is no longer judge because it is his only will to function.

See if anyone ever blurted this out to me I would pull up a chair, grab some crisps, and tell him "I'm silently judging you."

I have seen enough actual suicides in my life that I am fully out of tosses to give to people who threatens it for silly reasons.

Honestly, a few laughed and said that is kinda sad.

New addition to the rosters here.

The guy that has a god-awful work schedule, can't game on weekends, and whines because no one can game with him when he gets off shift at 10 PM. Like, I get it. You've got to make ends meet. But don't sign up for leagues and campaigns if you can't make it, and don't get mad because other people have to work a normal schedule (and my days begin at 0500). The dude just always ends up whining because he can't get games in, knowing from the moment he slaps his name on the bracket and drops his fee that he'll not be able to make games.

The guy that can't manage his finances but buys a bunch of 40k stuff. A dude I game with will buy damned near every new model for AoS AND 40k when it comes out, but he drives a busted car and lives in a dump- dude never had gas money, never had groceries, and was always getting his mom to send him money. People felt bad for him and offered to buy models from him, and he sold them to... buy more models. He actually called and asked for money to pay a ticket because he had no insurance on his car.

The Vapist. Dude, I get it- it's cool if you vape inside, I do it here and there- but when you're clouding up the game room so much I can't even see the table? You're just being obnoxious. Go suck your metal smoke-penis outside or something.

This reminds me of the old game shop I would go to.. great shop but had it's "usual suspects" game club..
Normally never played at the shop because of them.. good thing was they always wore their club shirt so
you could spot them easily..

Funny thing is a buddy that still lives locally said the "ringleader" decided to open up his own shop..
That is going to be a train wreak waiting to happen...

As for "that guy" my favorite is always been the gamer geek Casanova; any girl that walks in the door must
love the fact he can run a game of D&D, etc... Years back my wife and I went to the shop; the game shop
was large enough to have a lounge area buy the check out.. She would just sit there while I did my
excursion through the store. A local game guy sat beside her very close and with a suave voice
"Hi".. My wife looked him straight in the eyes and loudly said "NO!" He quickly got up and walked off..

 Genoside07 wrote:
As for "that guy" my favorite is always been the gamer geek Casanova; any girl that walks in the door must
love the fact he can run a game of D&D, etc... Years back my wife and I went to the shop; the game shop
was large enough to have a lounge area buy the check out.. She would just sit there while I did my
excursion through the store. A local game guy sat beside her very close and with a suave voice
"Hi".. My wife looked him straight in the eyes and loudly said "NO!" He quickly got up and walked off..

Many years ago, back when metal minis were still a thing for 40k- we did have some of these guys. What was scummy about them was the one or two girls that came in were always getting showered in compliments and adoration from these losers. And the only thing more obnoxious than these guys that haven't been inside a woman since a doctor yanked them out of their mother- one of the girls was really, really into the little fan club. The other was a bit more mature, and reasonable- and kind of blew it off and wanted to just play games and hang out. But the chick that really liked it soaked it up, and was always 'hanging out', and never gaming.

Those losers must have thrown a car payment at this girl every month in terms of models and stuff. She could slap a glob of paint onto a Tyranid and these guys would be talking about it like it was a Golden Daemon candidate (oddly enough, she would only take one model and build and paint it, and these losers did the rest). She could say the ditziest or dumbest things about 40k like "Sisters of Battle should Have Commissars and Terminators!" and these guys would say that all of GW's writers should be fired and replaced with her majesty. I never once saw her playing a game, but I did see some guy moving her models around and explaining things while she just jabbered away to her little fan club. In a way she was very much like a more obnoxious version of EgoQueenAlexis but with a tendency to not wear a bra.

Eventually some dude with a motorcycle came along and scooped her up, got her pregnant, and she was TOTALLY INTO MOTORCYCLE YOU GUYS. HARBLEY DAVILSONS ARE THE BEST!

Sounds like my ideal girl.

That is obnoxious but if she enjoyed the attention then no harm done I guess.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Sounds like my ideal girl.

That is obnoxious but if she enjoyed the attention then no harm done I guess.

The only bad part about it was the fact that she tended to speak ill of the guys that didn't fall for her charms. It turned you into sort of a pariah among her little cult followers. Of course, I say 'bad'... but it's sort of like the trash taking itself out, considering her crowd. It made it a little harder to get a game in than it was before she got there, but I can't particularly say that the wheezing neckbeards with no spine and no self-respect were ideal opponents.

Hard to say she's 'that guy'. She wouldn't have been where she was if not for a little group of losers that fawned over her. And she might have very well known what she was doing all along. Chances are, she never bought a single model, Codex, or paint pot and she was a little queen for a time- I'll show some leg and hug some stinky dudes if it gets me free things. Until, like I said, someone else came along and gave her attention among the motorcycle enthusiasts. And then she got pregnant and I don't really know or care what happened to her next.

But it said a lot about the dudes in the community, and sadly- spineless dudes aren't anything rare among gaming groups. Sad.

Heck, sounds like a girl I used to date!! She went into the game store tagging along with her brother looking for guys. Naughty little redhead with multiple great assets. I'm sure she got knocked up by a motorcyclist, as her family was big into them.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Heck, sounds like a girl I used to date!! She went into the game store tagging along with her brother looking for guys. Naughty little redhead with multiple great assets. I'm sure she got knocked up by a motorcyclist, as her family was big into them.

All sins are forgiven then. I'm such a god-damned sucker for the red heads.

Man, sounds like a co-worker's daughter. (Now, don't get me wrong here. This is a bit of trash talking, but nothing he, himself, has not said).

His youngest son is pretty normal
His middle daughter is super-organized, bordering on OCD and follows the rules
His oldest daughter.......is a mess. Average looks, average grades, but spoiled, lazy, and thinks her poo doesn't stink. About the time she turned 16 she ditched her old friends and slept her way though a few of the popular guys to work her way into high school high society. Kind of got the feeling that she's willing to do about anything to be the center of attention and stay there.

Man, I love these threads. I hope ButteryCommissar makes an appearance because they have some AMAZING stories.

As for me? Eh, nothing out of the norm for TFG's. Personal hygiene isn't a thing, bombastic about the hobby to the point of annoying, and lets not forget - masters of all thing nerd.

Had a dude show up during a HeroClix tournament YEARS ago that talked a bunch of smack, smelled like a pile of dicks, and yes, you guess it, wore this massive trenchcoat in August. Came down to me, him and another regular in the finals - I'd earned a first round buy, but chose to compete anyway and won. So he needed to score perfectly - he didn't and I crushed him.

He lost his gak. I really thought he was going to have a stroke or something given his size and obvious lack of exercise. TO threw him out and told the owners of the game store what happened - shame they forgot about it because he was back in the following week trying to get Warmahordes games. Same nonsense as always. From what I hear he's still going there, it's a shame.