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One of my least favor TFG moves (because long ago it was me*) is the guy that is jolly while winning but once they are losing its time to check and double double check every last little thing their opponent is doing, making sure the rules are exact and mis-remembering rules were convenient/inconvenient.

*I had a while where I did this sometimes, mostly when playing armies that didn't 'feel' right. And that was because I had delt with tons of cheaters from 3rd edition to 5th edition. People making rules up, people with a extra 100 odd points and people using magical FAQs.

 Peregrine wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:
You guys seriously measure down to 1mm? One cm, I guess can see. But 1mm is not far off from the thickness of the metal end of the tape measure.

Not every game is 40k. This happened in X-Wing, where there are fixed templates for measuring range and a perfectly flat surface to set the template down on. If I can put the range ruler between two ships and it doesn't touch both of them, even by a very tiny margin, you aren't in range. But people would get offended that I'd measure it that carefully instead of just waving the ruler in the general area of the ships and saying "looks close enough, take the shot".

Gotcha. Didn't think it was 40k specifically but since you said 'army' I honestly didn't think X-Wing was what you were describing.

Perhaps not new, but these are the two TFG styles I have encountered in the last six months, the first was new to me and the second has sadly been around since 3ed. Might have been before that but I never made it to a tournament in the good old Rogue Trader or 2ed days.

1. My last AoS tourney my first opponent had an army I had never played against before. Most of the units I could figure out what they did just by looking at them. My opponent started with just one unit on the table though, I really had no idea what it did, so I asked. Apparently this was an invitation for the player to tell me what I needed to be doing during my turn for the entirety of the game. Roll to Hit now, okay roll your Hits to see if they wound. On and on. During my opponents turn of course they were very quiet and just interrupted the dice rolling to tell me how many saves to take or how many mortal wounds they had inflicted. When I asked questions about what unit they were rolling for, who their target was etc., it only seemed to heighten my opponents desire to explain the game to me, no matter how many times I told him I knew how to play, he continued. Annoying as feth, its too bad my compendium old world army couldnt eek out two more VP's against my opponents stormcast 4 deepstriking drakes army. Had never encountered this type before, and I am not particularly fond of it.

2. Seen this many times, but the players who have a hand in organizing "casual" events who label the events as such but inevitably show up with their latest adepticon d*^k list. They of course tell everyone that they don't care if they win or not, they just want to practice. Though they always seem to forget that when it comes to taking prizes for roffle-stomping all the players who brought casual fun lists to an event that was advertised as "Casual and Fun". I don't have a problem with either side of the game coin as far as competitive vs casual. They do draw different crowds though, and luring the one just to beat them over the head with the other doesn't help the community at all.

Just one more though, It kind of offends me when Sylvaneth players bring a bunch of forest templates cut from cheap plywood that they just keep tossing down that they haven't bothered to even paint much less try to find some way for me to look at it and in any way see a forest. I don't doubt it's legal, and I don't care if it is or isn't, it just looks fricking stupid.

I had a guy (4th edition 40k) rage quit a game. In my turn I wanted to shoot my Necron Warriors into his Bloodletters. He decided they were more than 12 inches away, so I only got one shot. On his turn he moved, then tried to assault me, claiming he was just in range.

Now, how they can be more than 12 inches apart in my turn, but less than 12 in his turn is an amazement. I called this out to him, and he had the audacity to call a judge over. He promptly packed up his things as "he was getting cheated".

 cuda1179 wrote:
I had a guy (4th edition 40k) rage quit a game. In my turn I wanted to shoot my Necron Warriors into his Bloodletters. He decided they were more than 12 inches away, so I only got one shot. On his turn he moved, then tried to assault me, claiming he was just in range.

Now, how they can be more than 12 inches apart in my turn, but less than 12 in his turn is an amazement. I called this out to him, and he had the audacity to call a judge over. He promptly packed up his things as "he was getting cheated".

So he moved. That can easily shrink the gap.

 JNAProductions wrote:
So he moved. That can easily shrink the gap.

No it can't. In 4th you only charged 6". So if they started the turn over 12" apart (since he couldn't get the second rapid fire shot) a 6" move plus 6" charge will not get them within charge range. The only way they could have been able to charge is if the chaos player moved more than 6" in their movement phase, which is obviously cheating.

OH! I didn't play in 4th, so I did not know.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 cuda1179 wrote:
I had a guy (4th edition 40k) rage quit a game. In my turn I wanted to shoot my Necron Warriors into his Bloodletters. He decided they were more than 12 inches away, so I only got one shot. On his turn he moved, then tried to assault me, claiming he was just in range.

Now, how they can be more than 12 inches apart in my turn, but less than 12 in his turn is an amazement. I called this out to him, and he had the audacity to call a judge over. He promptly packed up his things as "he was getting cheated".

I've had this happen to me lots of times. A common example is when you purposely deploy 1" back when deployment zones are 24" apart then somehow on turn 2 an enemy unit with a 12" move unit is in charge range (for example) and I just have to ask, how? My unit didn't move, I deployed 1" back, unless the other player cheated there's no way for them to be within range.

I ended up having a long argument with a mate who I normally wouldn't consider a TFG because he was showing me how his unit was in charge range while I was telling him I could see they were in range now, but there's no way they could be unless he cheated in the preceding turn or during deployment.

I think over-moving happens a lot but it's usually pretty subtle. You only really notice when it doesn't make sense.

I've only spotted it once, where an opponent managed to reach a centre objective a turn earlier than I could (I figured they'd still be about an inch away), and even then I'm not sure because it was Malifaux and there are so many special rules that allow crazy movement. I got ROFLstomped anyway but it left a bit of a bad taste.

Haven't really had any other "that guy" incidents, possibly because I don't actually play that much. I got totally tabled in turn 2 against a Tau opponent once, but I think that was just a Tau thing.

I tend to take a pretty relaxed stance on the rules in 40K because it's such a mess anyway, so when my usual opponent bends things a bit in a casual game I don't care. Different matter if it was a tournament or something precise/serious.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
I had a guy (4th edition 40k) rage quit a game. In my turn I wanted to shoot my Necron Warriors into his Bloodletters. He decided they were more than 12 inches away, so I only got one shot. On his turn he moved, then tried to assault me, claiming he was just in range.

Now, how they can be more than 12 inches apart in my turn, but less than 12 in his turn is an amazement. I called this out to him, and he had the audacity to call a judge over. He promptly packed up his things as "he was getting cheated".

I've had this happen to me lots of times. A common example is when you purposely deploy 1" back when deployment zones are 24" apart then somehow on turn 2 an enemy unit with a 12" move unit is in charge range (for example) and I just have to ask, how? My unit didn't move, I deployed 1" back, unless the other player cheated there's no way for them to be within range.

I ended up having a long argument with a mate who I normally wouldn't consider a TFG because he was showing me how his unit was in charge range while I was telling him I could see they were in range now, but there's no way they could be unless he cheated in the preceding turn or during deployment.

Did you measure the table to make sure it was exactly 48" across? At my club we use tables that are closer to 46" or 47" across. Could easily make the difference.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Did you measure the table to make sure it was exactly 48" across? At my club we use tables that are closer to 46" or 47" across. Could easily make the difference.

It shouldn't, because deployment zones are measured 12" from the center line of the table, not 12" in from the edge. A smaller table would make the deployment zones smaller, but still keep a 24" starting distance.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:


Did you measure the table to make sure it was exactly 48" across? At my club we use tables that are closer to 46" or 47" across. Could easily make the difference.

Fair point. The boards I use are and extra 0.5" long, which makes the no-man zone a bit wider.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Did you measure the table to make sure it was exactly 48" across? At my club we use tables that are closer to 46" or 47" across. Could easily make the difference.

It shouldn't, because deployment zones are measured 12" from the center line of the table, not 12" in from the edge. A smaller table would make the deployment zones smaller, but still keep a 24" starting distance.

Meaningless post is meaningless. No one does this. People measure from the edge of the board as it's straight and a fixed edge. No one actually looks for the much more nebulous middle of the board and measures back to find the 12" point and then deploys. At best, we'll measure the length of the table and subtract any loss from the deployment zone. Thanks for posting, I guess.

 Ketara wrote:


If you can point to a real store that goes out of business because somebody kept buying all their stock (at a profit to the owner), you'll be showing me a storeowner so inept that the guy buying stuff had nothing to do with its failure.

I can tell you exactly how it happens, because I have a store not far from where I grew up that did the exact same thing.

Dude buys up all the models that do well. Now Store A never has those models. People go to the other stores to buy their models, assuming that Store A sucks at getting stuff in.

Then people find out that Store A is willing to sell to Daddy WAAC Warbucks, knowing exactly why, and think the store owner is more concerned about getting a buck. They take their business elsewhere, because they can find their models and perceive the other FLGS to be more customer-friendly.

There is now less demand at Store A, therefore less product is being sold and less money is being made. The light bill and rent and insurance and taxes can't be paid.

We have a store locally that caters to hyper-competitive teenagers with rich daddies, and they are struggling to keep their heads above water. Same thing.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Quibbling over 1mm sounds pretty TFG to me.

It really is. I can fart and my minis will rattle around 1mm. And I don't mean a quesadilla fart, this is a grilled chicken fart.

Speaking of grilled chicken farts, I had some yesterday...Whoah boy were they nasty...

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Speaking of grilled chicken farts, I had some yesterday...Whoah boy were they nasty...

Also the guy that farts in the FLGS and doesn't fess up to it.

It's not like we're surrounded by chicks that give a damn. Own your stank! Take pride!

Speak for yourself, I'd rather that if they needed to they did so outside or in the bathroom for the place as I'd never set foot into it anyway.

Our Dungeons and Dragons session was cancelled last night, so I dodged a bullet there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 n0t_u wrote:
Speak for yourself, I'd rather that if they needed to they did so outside or in the bathroom for the place as I'd never set foot into it anyway.

If I farted in my club, people would regard it as a challenge.

at least if someone tells you, you can open a window or a door.

And the bathroom isn't much to help, either. It's right next to the game room.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
at least if someone tells you, you can open a window or a door.

And the bathroom isn't much to help, either. It's right next to the game room.

We don't have that problem. The toilet in the community centre where we run our club is at the end of a corridor, and has an industrial grade extraction fan that will feth up your hearing.

 kronk wrote:
Meaningless post is meaningless. No one does this. People measure from the edge of the board as it's straight and a fixed edge. No one actually looks for the much more nebulous middle of the board and measures back to find the 12" point and then deploys. At best, we'll measure the length of the table and subtract any loss from the deployment zone. Thanks for posting, I guess.

Thanks for being rude about it, but you're still missing the point. If we're in a situation where a model is "in range" but, due to other measurements, we know that it can't be legally in range unless someone took a little extra distance somewhere (whether deliberately or accidentally) and so the only acceptable thing to do is nudge the model back a bit and accept that it isn't in range. You should not be allowed to take advantage of measuring carelessly when setting up your deployment zone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Then people find out that Store A is willing to sell to Daddy WAAC Warbucks, knowing exactly why, and think the store owner is more concerned about getting a buck.

What are they supposed to do, say "you're not allowed to buy this because someone else might want it"? Of course a store is going to sell a product to whoever wants to buy it. You can't expect them to turn down sales and keep a box sitting on the shelf just in case you decide that you want one at some point. That's not how business works.

Yes but on the other hand he's a toxic customer who drive's away other customers. Its a Catch 22.

That guy who talks like he's better than everyone else and randomly insults your personal mannerisms like he's not even bothered about gaming with you so much as he undermining your sense of self, when I was younger it really used to get to me, now that I'm getting into the hobby again I'll just focus on building a good army and take satisfaction from wiping the table with them.

Honestly, the more I think about it the less I believe the story about the "buy it all" guy. These are normal GW kits we're talking about, with effectively unlimited supply. Even if someone cleans out a store's entire inventory you can still very easily get them with a special order, buy direct from GW, etc. The worst that is going to happen is that you have to wait a few days for your kit to arrive instead of taking it home that day. So one of two things must be true here:

1) This guy is willing to throw away large amounts of money to create a minor inconvenience, without ever changing the end result of what gets into anyone's army. This seems more like a parody of a TFG than anything that would ever happen in the real world, at least without some serious mental issues that go way beyond a mere WAAC attitude.

or

2) The guy is buying the stuff he legitimately wants, and because he's a competitive player this is usually the most powerful units. In this case his purchases are legitimate, and you're the one with behavior issues if you insist on insulting him for not giving up on buying the stuff he wants just in case you might want to buy it someday.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Speaking of grilled chicken farts, I had some yesterday...Whoah boy were they nasty...

Three day old Rabbit Vindaloo.

That bloke's guffs cleared no less than three shops.

 Peregrine wrote:
Honestly, the more I think about it the less I believe the story about the "buy it all" guy. These are normal GW kits we're talking about, with effectively unlimited supply. Even if someone cleans out a store's entire inventory you can still very easily get them with a special order, buy direct from GW, etc. The worst that is going to happen is that you have to wait a few days for your kit to arrive instead of taking it home that day. So one of two things must be true here:

1) This guy is willing to throw away large amounts of money to create a minor inconvenience, without ever changing the end result of what gets into anyone's army. This seems more like a parody of a TFG than anything that would ever happen in the real world, at least without some serious mental issues that go way beyond a mere WAAC attitude.

or

2) The guy is buying the stuff he legitimately wants, and because he's a competitive player this is usually the most powerful units. In this case his purchases are legitimate, and you're the one with behavior issues if you insist on insulting him for not giving up on buying the stuff he wants just in case you might want to buy it someday.

We were in Kansas, it was this store or you could drive 3 hours East or West to another store. Buying direct from the store was a crap shoot. Sometimes the owner wouldn't put in the order for days unless you paid up front for it and even then you might learn he used that money for other things. I ordered online, but that didn't help the store any. The guy bought everything his parents were upper crust Chinese millionaires (in China), he was in the military to get citizenship (maybe never asked) so money wasn't an issue for him. As I said, his appartment was filled with unopened boxes to every army imaginable, literal stacks of boxes but he only played one army ever.

He didn't have a mental issue but he like many in the military had poor impulse control with money and tried to strategize it. Its a crazy store for sure but I'm not exaggerating it, he really did do this until he was barred from it. By then the store was on its way out for the most part, I think it scraped by for another 6 months before it went under (I wasn't living there anymore).

Has anyone ever had the "I never finish a game" guy? We had a guy for a while that would show up, play 75 to 90% of a game, and then decide that was enough for him and leave. Now, if this is a friendly match it's a tad annoying unless it's REALLY obvious who is going to win. When it is in a tournament where you get points depending on how great your victory is, it's a pain in the butt.

Games were supposed to be 2 hours long after deployment. I faced him twice in the same tournament and each time he conceded less than an hour into the game. Due to how this tournament was set up you just kept a running total of your victory points, and if anyone conceded you only got the victory points you accumulated at that point. This meant that I ended up being 5th place, when realistically I should have been about 3rd.

 cuda1179 wrote:
Has anyone ever had the "I never finish a game" guy? We had a guy for a while that would show up, play 75 to 90% of a game, and then decide that was enough for him and leave. Now, if this is a friendly match it's a tad annoying unless it's REALLY obvious who is going to win. When it is in a tournament where you get points depending on how great your victory is, it's a pain in the butt.

One of the guys (who coincidentally, I've already mentioned earlier ITT) does this... He gets seriously, over the top pissed at his models, starts literally throwing dice and gak. Which makes it all the more unpleasant to play against him. But the thing you mention, this guy apparently works on Saturday, and ALWAYS wants to play 2k+ point games, but rarely do any of his games make it to, or through turn 3 in part because of his rage quitting and part because of having to go to work.

I believe that a common "That Guy" is one who is playing a very different game than what was originally agreed.

- The WAAC: rules are whatever they think I can get away with... I have played a couple. Somehow if someone is not clear on rules or are insecure, it is permission to change rules at will with these folk. I do not like bullies and applying that to a fun pastime seems a crime.

- The "Scrub" they run on different rules than the game: "that is cheesy", "that is unfair", "that is cheap!", "that is not fun to play that way!", "that's a no skill way to play", "I play for fun". Somehow even though you are following the rules you are doing it wrong in their eyes. Honestly, you cannot make a list they would agree to unless it looks like you would clearly lose.

Both of the above people have never lost a "fair" game... ever.

But I will describe myself as an unintentional "that guy" I will blame on advancing age:

- I remember rules incredibly well, from prior revisions. Highly irritating misremembering rules that get muddled as they all blur into each other. I have tabs all over my BRB and crib notes with "hey! remember this rule so you do not embarrass yourself." Some find it hilarious, others are thinking the old guy is getting senile. 48 this year... cut me some slack.

- I mainly play at my house or my various friend's houses and do not much care for the FLGS games so I am that guy wandering around chatting up a bit about the game and almost no-one there has seen me play. They are unsure of what to make of me. I DO buy stuff there and have played in other venues but this one is really deep in the fluff zone. I tend to keep my hands clear of my pockets and do not touch people... I have two kids that are beginning to go to the FLGS and I do not want to embarrass them.

- My game setup time is horrible. I organize my squads ahead of time, got everything printed out and yet, all original plans for engaging the enemy goes into analysis paralysis and I have to repeat the mantra "It is just a game, deployment does not have to be perfect." Yet I see myself get "punished" with each time I set up. It all goes quick after that but opponents clearly look like they think this is a mistake until we get going. "What is the scenario rules again? Let me look that up.. hmmm...". Total amnesia of game setup rules.

Yeah, so I give the impression of the guy that means well and is rather silly until I get into the game and "it all comes back" and they revise their strategy of going easy on me and they wonder if it was all an act. I remember all my opponents fondly, each of you bring something to teach me even if it may be "patience".

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 cuda1179 wrote:
I had a guy (4th edition 40k) rage quit a game. In my turn I wanted to shoot my Necron Warriors into his Bloodletters. He decided they were more than 12 inches away, so I only got one shot. On his turn he moved, then tried to assault me, claiming he was just in range.

Now, how they can be more than 12 inches apart in my turn, but less than 12 in his turn is an amazement. I called this out to him, and he had the audacity to call a judge over. He promptly packed up his things as "he was getting cheated".

I've had this happen to me lots of times. A common example is when you purposely deploy 1" back when deployment zones are 24" apart then somehow on turn 2 an enemy unit with a 12" move unit is in charge range (for example) and I just have to ask, how? My unit didn't move, I deployed 1" back, unless the other player cheated there's no way for them to be within range.

I ended up having a long argument with a mate who I normally wouldn't consider a TFG because he was showing me how his unit was in charge range while I was telling him I could see they were in range now, but there's no way they could be unless he cheated in the preceding turn or during deployment.

Did you measure the table to make sure it was exactly 48" across? At my club we use tables that are closer to 46" or 47" across. Could easily make the difference.

I always put a measuring tape down set to 24" to make sure deployment zones are 24" apart, then place a couple of dice at that distance for reference. None of our boards are exactly 48" so we just make sure the deployment zones are 24" apart regardless.

Honestly that's what I thought everyone did So many weapons have a 24" range that having deployment zones 24" apart is kind of important for controlling what is range early on.

In WHFB most units had a movement range that was a factor of 24, so I'd often move units 0.5" less to know I'd be out of charge range on a given turn, then magically the opponent somehow managed to pull an inch out of his backside to clearly be within charge range

The other over-moving you see a lot of is the "I'll just move this one guy the allotted 6", put down the ruler and then move the rest of the unit around him" and somehow you magically get some guys flying 10". I've called people out on that one a couple of time because I've seen people use a broadly spread screening unit that manages to get clear at the right time because some guys are moving close to twice as far as they should.

 Peregrine wrote:
What are they supposed to do, say "you're not allowed to buy this because someone else might want it"? Of course a store is going to sell a product to whoever wants to buy it. You can't expect them to turn down sales and keep a box sitting on the shelf just in case you decide that you want one at some point. That's not how business works.

I'm well aware of how business works. You know how to get around this?

You let your customers know when your shipments are coming in. You can actually deny a sale to someone, too.

Because if this guy's buying up the new cool models as they come out, from a small store- people just carry their business elsewhere. Where they have stock. Again, sooner or later the demand's going to go down. The gaming is going to stop. That guy won't need to buy any models, then. And then the business is done.

That's how a business works, FYI.

Edit: Now that he mentions it was a military town, I'll clue you in- ordering fragile things like GW models to get to your mailing address at the barracks is asking for a crushed box and broken models- sometimes even lost items.