Which models due to their aesthetic, fluff, background or just downright sillyness do you think should have gone the way of the dodo with 8ths release (if any)?
Luciferian wrote: Centurions should definitely be redone if not abandoned.
I'm on the redesign train. The concept of Centurians is good: Heavy-armored weapon platforms that can perform where tanks can't. The only problem is is that we got the Stay-Puft Marshmallow man out of that deal.
I understand Tau, lots of people hate the look, but Eldar? They've been here since the beginning.
I basically agree with everything space wolves. I have never liked them from day 1 in the hobby (1990s) but more the latest stupidity I.e. wolf riders.
I don't really like orks either, everything about them seems silly. Everyone else in the grimdark is all grim, dark, and serious space wolves and orks do feel a little out of place in their over the top nature.
Ratius wrote: Which models due to their aesthetic, fluff, background or just downright sillyness do you think should have gone the way of the dodo with 8ths release (if any)?
No, Kanluwen, you cant comment here
To be fair, Rough Riders already have been "left behind", the models haven't been for sale for almost 4-5 years. They went away around the time of the Astra Militarum book(2013).
IF (huge if) they have a radical redesign of the concept(no more of this garbage of them being part of the regiment themselves; make them an Auxiliary unit instead ala Ogryn or Ratlings) and make them into something like:
Feral World Cavalry Auxiliary
M10"-12" WS 4+ BS5+ S5 T4 or T5 2W 6A or 3W LD6 4+ or 5+ save(T and save should be dependent upon the type of mount that they go with--the lower value should be representative of "just" horsemen while the better value should be used to represent a xenobeast mount) Wargear Explosive Tipped Lance: 3" range, Strength 5(S of a Guardsman is 3; +2 for the Lance). AP -1 Only usable on the turn that the unit charges. Not one use only anymore(give them a limited number or if it's a fluff thing-- make it so that it's more like a "bangstick" that divers use; a hollowed out spear with an explosive cartridge that is 'fired' when it contacts the flesh of the target). Only one attack per Auxiliary; it's not something that can be reloaded on the fly.
Las/autopistol and Close Combat Weapon(S3 AP 0 to rep it being swung by the Guardsman and not the mount)
Hoof/Claws: 1" range, S5(Strength of the mount--higher if it's a big xenobeast mount or something).
<Cavalry>: The number of attacks is split between the Auxiliary and its Mount. Half of the attacks must be made with the Auxiliary's weapons; the reminder are made by the mount itself in a frenzy of "nope nope nope".
<Insert Fancy Name for Hit and Fade Strike Here>: This unit, after resolving its hits in combat, can immediately disengage. Roll 2D6(or 1D6 if it's a bigger mount) to see how far it disengages from the combat.
<Insert Fancy Name for Moving Quickly Here>: This unit can run and charge in the same turn.
<Insert Fancy Name For Big Animals Hitting Hard Here>: This unit doubles its attacks with Hoof/Claws on the turn that it charges.
This makes it so that it's a fragile unit if caught and held in place, but with a bit of offensive punch that the current unit lacks.
It also makes it so that, thematically, it's not just "Guardsmen on a horse". It doesn't detract from the Death Korps' Death Riders or the Tallarn Mukaali or any specific regiments that are known for having hussars, dragoons, whatever.
It fixes a big issue I have with the concept(I never thought it appropriate that they're considered "part of the regiment" in many cases; they should be auxiliary) and it makes a unit that finally can have a unique look made for them.
Luciferian wrote: Centurions should definitely be redone if not abandoned.
I'm on the redesign train. The concept of Centurians is good: Heavy-armored weapon platforms that can perform where tanks can't. The only problem is is that we got the Stay-Puft Marshmallow man out of that deal.
There isn't really any way to redesign them without either making a nuTerminator or nuDevastator effectively.
That would be sad considering Tau and Eldar have some of the best looking models GW has ever made. Much better than the gothic, clunky, boarder-line steam-punk Imperium junk.
That would be sad considering Tau and Eldar have some of the best looking models GW has ever made. Much better than the gothic, clunky, boarder-line steam-punk Imperium junk.
The Exorcist is by far the best tank model GW makes. I will fight you on that.
I'd rather have flying cathedrals with flying buttresses and stained glass windows and tanks with artistic relief panels and pipe organs for missiles painted shining silver and gold and brass.
The Tau are all anime-like, and the Eldar are just sort of boring to look at. I'd rather have a mud-splattered Mk.V tank that's been crawling through shell-shattered no-man's land than weird curvy hovercraft or a gundam mecha.
I'm not really for discontinuing any models, but certain models need redone. Lot of the chaos line, some ig, and eldar are some of the lines in desperate need
Luciferian wrote: Centurions should definitely be redone if not abandoned.
I'm on the redesign train. The concept of Centurians is good: Heavy-armored weapon platforms that can perform where tanks can't. The only problem is is that we got the Stay-Puft Marshmallow man out of that deal.
Luciferian wrote: Centurions should definitely be redone if not abandoned.
I'm on the redesign train. The concept of Centurians is good: Heavy-armored weapon platforms that can perform where tanks can't. The only problem is is that we got the Stay-Puft Marshmallow man out of that deal.
That's terminators and dreadnoughts...
Yeah, the gap between terminators and dreadnoughts wasn't that wide, and it's not that Centurions fill that gap that's a problem. It's that they outshined both pretty dramatically, as well as devestators. One brand new unit, armed with a brand new gun, completely outcompeted three classic units, which is going to cheese people off.
If you toned down grav guns, and buff termies and dreads, Centurions won't be as clear cut a choice, but it's hard to really see what niche they fill.
Purge most of the Space Wolf line to get rid of the stupid "Wolves in SPAAAACE" bit and return them to being Norse. Wulfen, wolf sleds, Thunderwolves, cyber wolves, and their ilk can all be thrown out. Along with that awful ice flyer.
Throw out the Taurox, Centurions, and every Tau mech bigger than a Crsis Suit as well.
I understand Tau, lots of people hate the look, but Eldar? They've been here since the beginning.
I basically agree with everything space wolves. I have never liked them from day 1 in the hobby (1990s) but more the latest stupidity I.e. wolf riders.
I don't really like orks either, everything about them seems silly. Everyone else in the grimdark is all grim, dark, and serious space wolves and orks do feel a little out of place in their over the top nature.
He said what should be left behind. Doesn't matter if the Eldar have been here since the beginning, the army is goofy looking and not at all appealing. They just round everything.
That would be sad considering Tau and Eldar have some of the best looking models GW has ever made. Much better than the gothic, clunky, boarder-line steam-punk Imperium junk.
You mean the walking Lego blocks? Everything is all rectangles.
Luciferian wrote: Centurions should definitely be redone if not abandoned.
I'm on the redesign train. The concept of Centurians is good: Heavy-armored weapon platforms that can perform where tanks can't. The only problem is is that we got the Stay-Puft Marshmallow man out of that deal.
That's terminators and dreadnoughts...
Yeah, the gap between terminators and dreadnoughts wasn't that wide, and it's not that Centurions fill that gap that's a problem. It's that they outshined both pretty dramatically, as well as devestators. One brand new unit, armed with a brand new gun, completely outcompeted three classic units, which is going to cheese people off.
If you toned down grav guns, and buff termies and dreads, Centurions won't be as clear cut a choice, but it's hard to really see what niche they fill.
It really isn't that hard to see what niche they filled.
They're the Loyalist equivalent of Obliterators. They had three weapon options(anti-tank, anti-MC/vehicle, and anti-infantry). They were able to be (kinda) mobile and fire while doing so.
And really, toning down Grav Guns wouldn't do anything since Centurions brought Grav-Cannons.
Boniface wrote: I don't really like orks either, everything about them seems silly. Everyone else in the grimdark is all grim, dark, and serious space wolves and orks do feel a little out of place in their over the top nature.
I don't know, humans being caged up in their own filth waiting their turn to be experimented on, people being slowly burned to death in front of their families for laughs, and people being fattened up on the remains of other humans before being hauled off to the rendering plant all seems pretty grimdark to me.
I understand Tau, lots of people hate the look, but Eldar? They've been here since the beginning.
I basically agree with everything space wolves. I have never liked them from day 1 in the hobby (1990s) but more the latest stupidity I.e. wolf riders.
I don't really like orks either, everything about them seems silly. Everyone else in the grimdark is all grim, dark, and serious space wolves and orks do feel a little out of place in their over the top nature.
He said what should be left behind. Doesn't matter if the Eldar have been here since the beginning, the army is goofy looking and not at all appealing. They just round everything.
That would be sad considering Tau and Eldar have some of the best looking models GW has ever made. Much better than the gothic, clunky, boarder-line steam-punk Imperium junk.
You mean the walking Lego blocks? Everything is all rectangles.
I'm detecting exceptional sodium levels from this life-form Captain!
jreilly89 wrote: I don't really like orks either, everything about them seems silly. Everyone else in the grimdark is all grim, dark, and serious space wolves and orks do feel a little out of place in their over the top nature.
I don't know, humans being caged up in their own filth waiting their turn to be experimented on, people being slowly burned to death in front of their families for laughs, and people being fattened up on the remains of other humans before being hauled off to the rendering plant all seems pretty grimdark to me.
It's just a prank, bro!
Yeah never said that. I love the Ork line, it's one of the best looking armies.
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Skerr wrote: Everyone has different tastes and preferences.
It is great we have a great number of armies to pick from so we all do not look like different painted versions of IG.
There are some armies I would never want to play and might even think are silly or out of place, any user can say the same for any army I play.
Different Strokes for Different Folks.
To quote the OP:
Ratius wrote: Which models due to their aesthetic, fluff, background or just downright sillyness do you think should have gone the way of the dodo with 8ths release (if any)?
- Taurox; > real half track or No deal. - Centurions; > we got TDA ... - Dreadknight; > if it looks like e penitent engine, it belongs to the sisterhood... > one and only model I will never assemble
In all honesty, dreadnoughts probably look the way they do because at the time of their design, a block with cylinders for limbs was at the upper reaches of their technical limitations in casting and sculpting
Yeah, the gap between terminators and dreadnoughts wasn't that wide, and it's not that Centurions fill that gap that's a problem. It's that they outshined both pretty dramatically, as well as devestators. One brand new unit, armed with a brand new gun, completely outcompeted three classic units, which is going to cheese people off.
If you toned down grav guns, and buff termies and dreads, Centurions won't be as clear cut a choice, but it's hard to really see what niche they fill.
It really isn't that hard to see what niche they filled.
They're the Loyalist equivalent of Obliterators. They had three weapon options(anti-tank, anti-MC/vehicle, and anti-infantry). They were able to be (kinda) mobile and fire while doing so.
And really, toning down Grav Guns wouldn't do anything since Centurions brought Grav-Cannons.
Hmm, I guess that's a though, but I also chalked Oblits up to making up for Chaos Termies not being overly shooy (at least at range) and Chaos Dreads being intentionally unreliable for fire support. Oblits were the only dread or infantry unit with long range shooting, while SM had two.
And yes, technically centurions use grav cannons, not grav guns. Obviously my point is invalid.
Yeah, really, there aren't any models that aesthetically I think are so irredeemable that they should be dropped. The Taurox is a goofy looking piece of kit, but it's not jarringly bad. The last models that were that out of place for me were likely the metal Chaos Possessed from about 2004?
the big Tau stuff fits visually, and enough people love gundam stuff that I'm glad it's found a home. The babybjorn dreadknight has aged surprisingly well, as while it's goofy, it actually reinforces the concept that terminator armor is basically the safest thing to be in!
There are rules concepts I didn't care for, and overall I found the push to superheavies unpleasant in a game where it still matters what kind of pistol a grunt has, but virtually every model GW makes has a place, a niche, and some fans.
Luciferian wrote: Centurions should definitely be redone if not abandoned.
Yeah, terminators could use more weapon options...
They are, in my mind, probably the weirdest addition to any list in the last decade or so. They basically step all over the feet of terminators in terms of style and role, and they manage to look like in the process.
They basically made some kind of half-step between marine and dreadnaught where one already existed and then did it in a way to make them immediately better than terminators (more survivable, more firepower, etc.).
Sadly they are out of the bag and there aren't many ways to fix them without completely invalidating what people bought and built. But if there was one unit I wish to see thrown in to the wood chipper, it is Centurions. As it is, they overlap too much with pre-existing units that have traditionally sucked, so they formed this double-whammy of "why didn't you just fix terminators and dreadnaughts?"
What's worse, if this edition does fix those two, then what the hell is the Centurion's purpose at that point? And if the Centurion still does the job of either/both, then that means they haven't fixed the others. It is a Catch 22 at this point. No matter what they do, one of those three units wont pull its weight and there will be a pointless unit in the codex.
Forgeworld's Sanctorum Exorcist is pretty decent. I always thought the launcher box looked a little small for Str.8 AP1, though, and it looks a bit much like a Whirlwind. It looks military, which I can appreciate.
Luciferian wrote: Centurions should definitely be redone if not abandoned.
Yeah, terminators could use more weapon options...
They are, in my mind, probably the weirdest addition to any list in the last decade or so. They basically step all over the feet of terminators in terms of style and role, and they manage to look like in the process.
They basically made some kind of half-step between marine and dreadnaught where one already existed and then did it in a way to make them immediately better than terminators (more survivable, more firepower, etc.).
Sadly they are out of the bag and there aren't many ways to fix them without completely invalidating what people bought and built. But if there was one unit I wish to see thrown in to the wood chipper, it is Centurions. As it is, they overlap too much with pre-existing units that have traditionally sucked, so they formed this double-whammy of "why didn't you just fix terminators and dreadnaughts?"
What's worse, if this edition does fix those two, then what the hell is the Centurion's purpose at that point? And if the Centurion still does the job of either/both, then that means they haven't fixed the others. It is a Catch 22 at this point. No matter what they do, one of those three units wont pull its weight and there will be a pointless unit in the codex.
Well, lets be real: they'd be fine as mobile platforms for heavy bolters and lascannons. It's the gravcannons, which erase units, that really eclipses terminators and dreads. Centurions are the most survivable mobile firepower, and with drop pods, they are even more mobile!
So, if you asked me to fix them, I'd make them 4 wound, T5, 3+ save models. This makes terminators more resilient on a per wound basis. I would also make dreadnought weapons more powerful. For example, more shots on high volume weapons, or extra rend or wounds on the lascannon. For terminators, I'd up their overall firepower, by making storm bolters Assault 3 Rend -1.
the real question is if they actually try to limit the amount of heavy weapons in 8th. Units like centurions are very 6th/7th edition, everybody has the biggest possible gun, while terminators are an old school, one special per five man deal.
Asmodai wrote: Flyers and Superheavies. If you want to play Epic, then it's there. Introducing them to 40K just doesn't work with the scale of a typical game.
There's a reason why few modern warfare games feature a couple squads of riflemen vs. the USS Missouri.
Because the US navy hasn't had an equally powerful naval opponent to successfully launch a boarding action since ww2?
I play Space Wolves. I wish I could play a game without a joke about needing rabies shots. What happened to being badass space vikings?
Wolfwolfs and Fangfangs, and Thunderwolves, and Grimnar's Sleigh, are all extremely silly.
Agreed. This stuff is the only reason why I'm not returning to 8th as a Space Wolves player.
My understanding is that Imperial Fists are closest without the sillyness, but not sure I hate myself enough to paint the 30k yellow/black color scheme. Might just do Dark Angels.
The Tarox, Girlyman and whatever new magic unit the Marines are going to get.
The Rough Riders, or at least the current models
Sisters of Battle. Either love them or let them die.
Luciferian wrote: Centurions should definitely be redone if not abandoned.
Yeah, terminators could use more weapon options...
They are, in my mind, probably the weirdest addition to any list in the last decade or so. They basically step all over the feet of terminators in terms of style and role, and they manage to look like in the process.
They basically made some kind of half-step between marine and dreadnaught where one already existed and then did it in a way to make them immediately better than terminators (more survivable, more firepower, etc.).
Sadly they are out of the bag and there aren't many ways to fix them without completely invalidating what people bought and built. But if there was one unit I wish to see thrown in to the wood chipper, it is Centurions. As it is, they overlap too much with pre-existing units that have traditionally sucked, so they formed this double-whammy of "why didn't you just fix terminators and dreadnaughts?"
What's worse, if this edition does fix those two, then what the hell is the Centurion's purpose at that point? And if the Centurion still does the job of either/both, then that means they haven't fixed the others. It is a Catch 22 at this point. No matter what they do, one of those three units wont pull its weight and there will be a pointless unit in the codex.
Well, lets be real: they'd be fine as mobile platforms for heavy bolters and lascannons. It's the gravcannons, which erase units, that really eclipses terminators and dreads. Centurions are the most survivable mobile firepower, and with drop pods, they are even more mobile!
So, if you asked me to fix them, I'd make them 4 wound, T5, 3+ save models. This makes terminators more resilient on a per wound basis. I would also make dreadnought weapons more powerful. For example, more shots on high volume weapons, or extra rend or wounds on the lascannon. For terminators, I'd up their overall firepower, by making storm bolters Assault 3 Rend -1.
the real question is if they actually try to limit the amount of heavy weapons in 8th. Units like centurions are very 6th/7th edition, everybody has the biggest possible gun, while terminators are an old school, one special per five man deal.
Thinking about it, there actually is an ecological niche for Centurions: that of the light walker. Think Killa Kans, War Walkers, Sentinels. Not as durable as a Dreadnought or MC, but more durable than even heavy infantry. And again, armed with lascannons or heavy bolters, with virtually no ability to fight in combat and slow speed, they would be a highly specialized unit. Of course, tehy were given access to a drop pod and a ludicrously unbalanced gun, so they became an admittedly expensive, but reliable, magic eraser.
If they lose access to pods, and Gravcannons are toned down, they stay similar to the oblits or even War Walkers, as high firepower units that want to avoid anything getting close.
Kill whatever models they need to kill, but keep an opening entry-wise for those models to continue on under a different guise for the players who have accumulated them.
Has anyone mentioned Dreadknights yet? Or did the Wolves steal all that THUNDER again?
Also I dislike the Librarian Dread, the Mega-speeders the DAs have, Deathwing Knights and Ravenwing Knights (normal Deathwing and Ravenwing were suppose to be terminator/biker Plus already), the Stormsurge and Riptide (the original lore said that Tau specifically avoided anything bigger than a Broadside because they thought mechs larger than that was impractical, the Riptide and Stormsurge existing, let alone the Ta'aunar, are basically flying in the face of that characterization), Necron Tomb Blades (they look like necron warriors riding Mr Garrison's bike), and the Maleceptor and Toxicrene.
Especially the Stormsurge. If that thing isn't removed it should at least be redesigned. It's a giant weiner with chicken legs.
Luciferian wrote: Centurions should definitely be redone if not abandoned.
Yeah, terminators could use more weapon options...
They are, in my mind, probably the weirdest addition to any list in the last decade or so. They basically step all over the feet of terminators in terms of style and role, and they manage to look like in the process.
They basically made some kind of half-step between marine and dreadnaught where one already existed and then did it in a way to make them immediately better than terminators (more survivable, more firepower, etc.).
Sadly they are out of the bag and there aren't many ways to fix them without completely invalidating what people bought and built. But if there was one unit I wish to see thrown in to the wood chipper, it is Centurions. As it is, they overlap too much with pre-existing units that have traditionally sucked, so they formed this double-whammy of "why didn't you just fix terminators and dreadnaughts?"
What's worse, if this edition does fix those two, then what the hell is the Centurion's purpose at that point? And if the Centurion still does the job of either/both, then that means they haven't fixed the others. It is a Catch 22 at this point. No matter what they do, one of those three units wont pull its weight and there will be a pointless unit in the codex.
Well, lets be real: they'd be fine as mobile platforms for heavy bolters and lascannons. It's the gravcannons, which erase units, that really eclipses terminators and dreads. Centurions are the most survivable mobile firepower, and with drop pods, they are even more mobile!
So, if you asked me to fix them, I'd make them 4 wound, T5, 3+ save models. This makes terminators more resilient on a per wound basis. I would also make dreadnought weapons more powerful. For example, more shots on high volume weapons, or extra rend or wounds on the lascannon. For terminators, I'd up their overall firepower, by making storm bolters Assault 3 Rend -1.
the real question is if they actually try to limit the amount of heavy weapons in 8th. Units like centurions are very 6th/7th edition, everybody has the biggest possible gun, while terminators are an old school, one special per five man deal.
Thinking about it, there actually is an ecological niche for Centurions: that of the light walker. Think Killa Kans, War Walkers, Sentinels. Not as durable as a Dreadnought or MC, but more durable than even heavy infantry. And again, armed with lascannons or heavy bolters, with virtually no ability to fight in combat and slow speed, they would be a highly specialized unit. Of course, tehy were given access to a drop pod and a ludicrously unbalanced gun, so they became an admittedly expensive, but reliable, magic eraser.
If they lose access to pods, and Gravcannons are toned down, they stay similar to the oblits or even War Walkers, as high firepower units that want to avoid anything getting close.
To be fair, Grav-Cannons were basically the only thing keeping Marines "in the game" effectively.
And they did not have access to Drop Pods natively. You had to bring them as Fast Attack choices.
Forgeworld's Sanctorum Exorcist is pretty decent. I always thought the launcher box looked a little small for Str.8 AP1, though, and it looks a bit much like a Whirlwind. It looks military, which I can appreciate.
But I really do like the pipe organ tank.
It would have made a lot more sense if they called it a mortar, or if they had made it an angled bank of tubes rather than a straight up series. I like the gunner's position and the rest of the vehicle, but I think they went a bit too literal for the concept. If I was going to field an Exorcist, I'd rob Whirlwinds as others have.
Mr Morden wrote: Pretty sure he meant this one and I also love it
How about the entire Space Marine line is "left behind" (but still sold, because it has HH rules), and promised to be given rules in a special book, that is promised to be released in two/three months, but is constantly delayed for more than a year? How would that feel?
Verviedi wrote: How about the entire Space Marine line is "left behind" (but still sold, because it has HH rules), and promised to be given rules in a special book, that is promised to be released in two/three months, but is constantly delayed for more than a year? How would that feel?
Verviedi wrote: How about the entire Space Marine line is "left behind" (but still sold, because it has HH rules), and promised to be given rules in a special book, that is promised to be released in two/three months, but is constantly delayed for more than a year? How would that feel?
It's not like Space Marine players make the calls at GW...
Forgeworld's Sanctorum Exorcist is pretty decent. I always thought the launcher box looked a little small for Str.8 AP1, though, and it looks a bit much like a Whirlwind. It looks military, which I can appreciate.
But I really do like the pipe organ tank.
It would have made a lot more sense if they called it a mortar, or if they had made it an angled bank of tubes rather than a straight up series. I like the gunner's position and the rest of the vehicle, but I think they went a bit too literal for the concept. If I was going to field an Exorcist, I'd rob Whirlwinds as others have.
Mr Morden wrote: Pretty sure he meant this one and I also love it
That was the joke.
The pipe organ is my favorite part!
As I understand it, the rocket is fired from the tube, arcs up and over and down on the top of the target. Or it goes up, stages, then travels horizontally before diving on the target like a cruise missile. The rockets are definitely guided missiles.
The thing with the Sanctorum Exorcist is that it's just sort of plain. It doesn't capture the same spirit the Prioris Exorcist does. The pipe-organ on a tank is so wonderfully appropriate for the army and for the setting, and the model itself is so pretty with the angel relief panels, scrolls, and pipes. The gunner operates the organ with a keyboard!
I'd love it if it WAS a pipe organ that did something sonic. My main problem is that it doesn't look like a missile launcher, and that in a miniatures wargame is IMO a bad design decision. But 40K is full of impractical design decisions, but this is a bit too far on the end of the scale for my tastes.
Verviedi wrote: How about the entire Space Marine line is "left behind" (but still sold, because it has HH rules), and promised to be given rules in a special book, that is promised to be released in two/three months, but is constantly delayed for more than a year? How would that feel?
There's a Fires of Cyraxus meme floating around here for a reason you know
I'd love it if it WAS a pipe organ that did something sonic. My main problem is that it doesn't look like a missile launcher, and that in a miniatures wargame is IMO a bad design decision. But 40K is full of impractical design decisions, but this is a bit too far on the end of the scale for my tastes.
It's wonderfully ironic, and it is a pipe organ. And it's a great design decision. Without it, we'd be "Space Marines, but -4 STR". It sets us apart from the Marines, and characterizes our force very well.
Rocket launcher vehicles have had such creative names as "Stalin's Organ", and "Calliope" because of the sounds they make and the fact they're basically a collection of pipes on top of a tank. I think it's fairly clearly a rocket tank; when I first saw it I knew immediately what it was supposed to be, and fell in love with it. Ships launch missiles vertically anyway, so it's not really a huge problem for the tank to be doing it.
Finally, if you missed the whole call out to historical rocket vehicles, the model does have a visible magazine loaded with rockets, and underneath the assembly several of the pipes have their breeches open for loading, with rockets in some of them.
Verviedi wrote: How about the entire Space Marine line is "left behind" (but still sold, because it has HH rules), and promised to be given rules in a special book, that is promised to be released in two/three months, but is constantly delayed for more than a year? How would that feel?
There's a Fires of Cyraxus meme floating around here for a reason you know
very silly that people will claim that a type of force looks dumb. Aesthetics is a personal thing. I love the Eldar aesthetic, to me it's by far the best one in the range, even with some of the older models. I wouldn't try telling someone their chosen army looks cack.
As for models/ideas, I wish they'd lose noise marines. They seem really goofy to me. I'm a Slaanesh fan, love the demons, love the concept, but can't get myself around noise marines. Hope they get remodeled.
While the space wolves are OTT with all the wolfy thematic stuff, they are one of the only space marine chapters I actually like, because they are not 99% identical to every other chapter. They have flair and character.
I realise that all power armour is the same, but look at CSM. The variation of those power clad armies is much more than the imperium. They have better looking units and better vehicles.
Its frustrating, space marines get the lions share of GW's attention and love, yet they look identical to each other for the most part. They drive about in boxes, flanked by bigger boxes, or come out of the sky in circular boxes. Then they depart and its either power armour, bigger power armour, or even bigger power armour. Or walking boxes.
So. Incredibly. Boring. (and I play necrons )
Every other faction has much more depth of character and better looking models (as a whole) than the SM. SM have more sub-factions than any other army. Yet they are all extremely alike. Granted their rules, fluff and play styles may be different, but they look exactly the same.
Ynnari - CWE, DE, Harlequins - all are unique, different from each other and internally varied
Tyranids/GSC - both are unique, different from each other and internally varied
Chaos - 4 seperate gods - all are unique, different from each other and internally varied
AdMech - Skitarii and cult mechanicus - both are unique, different from each other and internally varied
Its a good thing GW doesn't take tips from Dakkadakka, or else we would all be playing 5th edition imperium.
I still to this day do not understand why people think alien races that existed and expanded eons before encountering humans should have anything resembling imperial gothic grimdark style. I like the fact that Tau and Eldar look so different.
In fact, I find the whole hyper religious christian aesthetic of Sisters to be super boring. Bolter nuns are just as stupid as Wolf Vikings.
Don Savik wrote: Its a good thing GW doesn't take tips from Dakkadakka, or else we would all be playing 5th edition imperium.
I still to this day do not understand why people think alien races that existed and expanded eons before encountering humans should have anything resembling imperial gothic grimdark style. I like the fact that Tau and Eldar look so different.
In fact, I find the whole hyper religious christian aesthetic of Sisters to be super boring. Bolter nuns are just as stupid as Wolf Vikings.
I agree whole heartedly with this. IMO the Space Wolves would have been far better off if they would have stuck with a generalised viking theme (Runes, animal (Eagle, Bear, etc.) symbols, and intricate knot work) not just the dog obsessed murder lords they are
Also, I think Chain weapons need to be done away with, they just don't seem practical, I know this is a fictional setting but chain weapons always seem to irk me
Oh feth! It's one of those 'once seen can't be unseen' things isn't it?
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JNAProductions wrote: Absolutely nothing. Models should be updated, but no one should have put in hours of effort, all for naught because their models just go away.
Utterly agree with this, even if there are some models that the majority think look ridiculous.
Don Savik wrote: Its a good thing GW doesn't take tips from Dakkadakka, or else we would all be playing 5th edition imperium.
I still to this day do not understand why people think alien races that existed and expanded eons before encountering humans should have anything resembling imperial gothic grimdark style. I like the fact that Tau and Eldar look so different.
In fact, I find the whole hyper religious christian aesthetic of Sisters to be super boring. Bolter nuns are just as stupid as Wolf Vikings.
I appreciate the difference too. It makes them alien. We're not expressing that we want them to look the same, we're expressing that they're inherently inferior because they're not our preferred artistic style.
We don't actually think any models should be removed.
I play Space Wolves. I wish I could play a game without a joke about needing rabies shots. What happened to being badass space vikings?
Wolfwolfs and Fangfangs, and Thunderwolves, and Grimnar's Sleigh, are all extremely silly.
Agreed. This stuff is the only reason why I'm not returning to 8th as a Space Wolves player.
My understanding is that Imperial Fists are closest without the sillyness, but not sure I hate myself enough to paint the 30k yellow/black color scheme. Might just do Dark Angels.
There's nothing stopping you building a Viking themed Space Wolf Army. You don't have to go the full wolfening.
Catachans I've never liked the look of them. I've also never met anyone who plays them in person. Seriously out of all the various imperial guard factions they could of kept (steel legion, iron guard, or valhallan) they had to stick with the wannabe Nam marines.
I understand Tau, lots of people hate the look, but Eldar? They've been here since the beginning.
I basically agree with everything space wolves. I have never liked them from day 1 in the hobby (1990s) but more the latest stupidity I.e. wolf riders.
I don't really like orks either, everything about them seems silly. Everyone else in the grimdark is all grim, dark, and serious space wolves and orks do feel a little out of place in their over the top nature.
The eldar line is an unfortunate reminder that their idea of what's "Thematically fitting" is actually only based on the game's most recent era, when the creators who understood that the foundation of "Grimdark" - works like Robocop, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, Judge Dredd and Canticle for Liebowitz - were ultimately comedic, retired and turned the reigns over to morons who turn a story with characters named things like "Lion El'Johnson" and "Corvus Corax" into a serious drama.
Anything that's not Super Srs is now derided as "not fitting with the setting" and should be removed. I'll let you in on a secret: A giant suit of armor so ludicrously up-gunned and plated that it looks like the wearer would be completely unable to move (the Centurion suits everyone hates) is much more thematically appropriate in a Grimdark setting than a shiny, golden, pristine and elegant looking perfect robot suit (the new Centurion dreadnoughts that everyone seems to love.)
my 2 cents on models that are are stupid in concept that should be trashed:
Wulfen
Thunderwolves
the Santa Sled
Centurions
Skulldozer
Hellbrute
-----------------
Models that I think need to be reworked:
Orikan, which has an awful head sculpt
Abbadon, which I presume is already in the works
Taurox, as everyone else says
Shokk Attack Gun (head only, which is just really poorly done)
GK Baby Carrier - I think this is good in concept but looks goofy.
Catachans, which really just need to be updated a bit.
Also, I think Chain weapons need to be done away with, they just don't seem practical, I know this is a fictional setting but chain weapons always seem to irk me
There is nothing impractical about chainsaws fixed to the end of every weapon imaginable. It makes everything Dead-Killy-er
Also, I think Chain weapons need to be done away with, they just don't seem practical, I know this is a fictional setting but chain weapons always seem to irk me
There is nothing impractical about chainsaws fixed to the end of every weapon imaginable. It makes everything Dead-Killy-er
I just feel they need more justification than 'it's a really sharp chainsaw'
I understand Tau, lots of people hate the look, but Eldar? They've been here since the beginning.
I basically agree with everything space wolves. I have never liked them from day 1 in the hobby (1990s) but more the latest stupidity I.e. wolf riders.
I don't really like orks either, everything about them seems silly. Everyone else in the grimdark is all grim, dark, and serious space wolves and orks do feel a little out of place in their over the top nature.
The eldar line is an unfortunate reminder that their idea of what's "Thematically fitting" is actually only based on the game's most recent era, when the creators who understood that the foundation of "Grimdark" - works like Robocop, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, Judge Dredd and Canticle for Liebowitz - were ultimately comedic, retired and turned the reigns over to morons who turn a story with characters named things like "Lion El'Johnson" and "Corvus Corax" into a serious drama.
Anything that's not Super Srs is now derided as "not fitting with the setting" and should be removed. I'll let you in on a secret: A giant suit of armor so ludicrously up-gunned and plated that it looks like the wearer would be completely unable to move (the Centurion suits everyone hates) is much more thematically appropriate in a Grimdark setting than a shiny, golden, pristine and elegant looking perfect robot suit (the new Centurion dreadnoughts that everyone seems to love.)
This nails the "grimdark is srs bizness" vs "Hey, remember when Orks had a foot template?" perfectly. As a 23 year vet who learned to paint everything over a white undercoat, the darkening of 40K has always perplexed me.
Orks are supposed to be both dangerous and ridiculous. Marines are supposed to be over-the-top in their "Imma good guy 4sure" righteousness. They fight with chainsaws for Christ's sake! Noise Marines had GUITARS!
Also, I think Chain weapons need to be done away with, they just don't seem practical, I know this is a fictional setting but chain weapons always seem to irk me
I don't know, I thought they were the perfect warning for what people were getting into with 40k.
Also, I think Chain weapons need to be done away with, they just don't seem practical, I know this is a fictional setting but chain weapons always seem to irk me
I don't know, I thought they were the perfect warning for what people were getting into with 40k.
I would be sad if they removed the melee component of 40K. It's space fantasy!
Whoever names the Space Wolves' stuff should be trashed - pretty sure they're not a model but they should still keep their hands out of codex development.
I purchased Santa Clawz sleigh to put bells and antlers on him as a laugh - still think the model is stupid. I also have no love for the "Wolf head" flyers that look like basketball shoes.
Admittedly my Blood Claws are Ultra Smurfs with Space Wolf bolt pistols and my Grey Hunters are 50% Horus Heresy and 50% AoS Chaos Warriors with Bolters, Backpacks and Helmets.
I adore Thunderwolf Cavalry.
I actually like my Wulfen minus the Villiage People posed one who lives displayed on my FLGS shelf along with M, C and A - a Crisis Suit, Wraithguard with two swords and a Dreadknight representing four of the stupidest models ever created.
For what I'd like to see "left behind" I'd point at Superheavies, flying Superheavies, GMCs and Flying GMCs.
Bring back Apocalypse.
Also, I think Chain weapons need to be done away with, they just don't seem practical, I know this is a fictional setting but chain weapons always seem to irk me
I don't know, I thought they were the perfect warning for what people were getting into with 40k.
I would be sad if they removed the melee component of 40K. It's space fantasy!
I'm not saying do away with the melee part, I'm just saying Chain weapons
Also, I think Chain weapons need to be done away with, they just don't seem practical, I know this is a fictional setting but chain weapons always seem to irk me
I don't know, I thought they were the perfect warning for what people were getting into with 40k.
I would be sad if they removed the melee component of 40K. It's space fantasy!
I'm not saying do away with the melee part, I'm just saying Chain weapons
Some you mean do away with one of the few weapons that are actually feasible in real life?
How are big stupid force field covered fists, guns that shoot razor-sharp nets, bio guns that fire bugs that somehow don't splatter on impact that eat through armor, dreadnoughts that would never walk in real life, vehicles that would tear themselves apart if they tried to move, big stupid klaw arms, super humans who spit acid and don't wear helmets in space (because force fields around the ship yo), or even military forces fighting in hand to hand in the far future any better? Chain weapons seem to be like auto and lasguns, cheap and easy to make, and get the job done. I would rather be wielding a chain sword over a normal sword/knife when facing the horrors of the 41st millennium.
They are far more silly things to hate than chain weapons.
Luciferian wrote: Not to mention that chainswords are probably the most iconic 40k weapon next to the bolter.
Right! And I don't hear people complaining about the bolter, I love the thing but it is so impractical. It's .75 caliber straight wall cased, diamond tipped rocket rounds would have terrible ballistics. It would most likely not ever accurately hit much beyond like 200 yards. The damned round is so heavy it would drop like a brick, there is a reason we don't use straight walled cartridges or even rocket ammunition (gyro jet abortion), in military small arms. If anything, the bolter should have a minimum range before the rounds hit their peak speed. Shoot, you shouldn't be able to kill even a Guardsman within like 3" with it. And what is with the unnecessary 4 round burst, other than rule of cool.
I don't play 40k for realism, I play it for silly space opera battles. If I wanted realistic futuristic battles, it would be a game of drones shooting each other from obscene distances away. I will take a game where unnecessarily huge amounts of slaves power space ships, and point blank broadsides are the norm over that though. In the far future there is almost no need to even field armies, especially ones that almost all fight super close range engagements.
How about updating some things instead of deleting old stuff to make shelf space for naked dwarves and five different sets of box art on the Space Marine vehicle kits? Come on. All the tanks in the game have been around since 3e, and we still don't have plastic Aspects.
I play Space Wolves. I wish I could play a game without a joke about needing rabies shots. What happened to being badass space vikings?
Wolfwolfs and Fangfangs, and Thunderwolves, and Grimnar's Sleigh, are all extremely silly.
Agreed. This stuff is the only reason why I'm not returning to 8th as a Space Wolves player.
My understanding is that Imperial Fists are closest without the sillyness, but not sure I hate myself enough to paint the 30k yellow/black color scheme. Might just do Dark Angels.
There's nothing stopping you building a Viking themed Space Wolf Army. You don't have to go the full wolfening.
Yes but would it be still effective? Would it be as effective as a Dark Angels army that uses Deathwing and/or Ravenwing? Or even as effective as a basic Space Marine army?
The problem is that the silly stuff in the Space Wolves are also what gives them their main strength ATM. 8th might change this, and I hope it does, but otherwise I wouldn't know where to start in building a good wolf-less Space Wolf army.
I play Space Wolves. I wish I could play a game without a joke about needing rabies shots. What happened to being badass space vikings?
Wolfwolfs and Fangfangs, and Thunderwolves, and Grimnar's Sleigh, are all extremely silly.
Agreed. This stuff is the only reason why I'm not returning to 8th as a Space Wolves player.
My understanding is that Imperial Fists are closest without the sillyness, but not sure I hate myself enough to paint the 30k yellow/black color scheme. Might just do Dark Angels.
There's nothing stopping you building a Viking themed Space Wolf Army. You don't have to go the full wolfening.
Yes but would it be still effective? Would it be as effective as a Dark Angels army that uses Deathwing and/or Ravenwing? Or even as effective as a basic Space Marine army?
The problem is that the silly stuff in the Space Wolves are also what gives them their main strength ATM. 8th might change this, and I hope it does, but otherwise I wouldn't know where to start in building a good wolf-less Space Wolf army.
It's also the stuff that makes them different, unusual and fun.
If you want Space Vikings but have an allergy to dogs build a Dark Angels army and claim they're Valkyrie Marines from the planet Honda.
I play Space Wolves. I wish I could play a game without a joke about needing rabies shots. What happened to being badass space vikings?
Wolfwolfs and Fangfangs, and Thunderwolves, and Grimnar's Sleigh, are all extremely silly.
Agreed. This stuff is the only reason why I'm not returning to 8th as a Space Wolves player.
My understanding is that Imperial Fists are closest without the sillyness, but not sure I hate myself enough to paint the 30k yellow/black color scheme. Might just do Dark Angels.
There's nothing stopping you building a Viking themed Space Wolf Army. You don't have to go the full wolfening.
Yes but would it be still effective? Would it be as effective as a Dark Angels army that uses Deathwing and/or Ravenwing? Or even as effective as a basic Space Marine army?
The problem is that the silly stuff in the Space Wolves are also what gives them their main strength ATM. 8th might change this, and I hope it does, but otherwise I wouldn't know where to start in building a good wolf-less Space Wolf army.
It's also the stuff that makes them different, unusual and fun.
If you want Space Vikings but have an allergy to dogs build a Dark Angels army and claim they're Valkyrie Marines from the planet Honda.
I'd be ok losing the Space Viking theme. The Space Inuit-Prussians sound fun enough, even if the paint scheme is hard. I also might not mind the Secretive Knights either.
NenkotaMoon wrote: I'd rather update and make more metals into plastic sets.
That isn't what this thread it about.
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AnomanderRake wrote: How about updating some things instead of deleting old stuff to make shelf space for naked dwarves and five different sets of box art on the Space Marine vehicle kits? Come on. All the tanks in the game have been around since 3e, and we still don't have plastic Aspects.
Again, not what the thread is about. Just because some things need an update, doesn't mean that centurions ever should have existed
Sensual_T_Rex wrote: Catachans I've never liked the look of them. I've also never met anyone who plays them in person. Seriously out of all the various imperial guard factions they could of kept (steel legion, iron guard, or valhallan) they had to stick with the wannabe Nam marines.
They're not just 'Nam dudes- they're all variations on Rambo.
And the plastics for them were a serious step down from their metal counterparts- and they've kept that particular mold in print forever.
Seriously, they should have guardsmen in trenchcoats with head options a long time ago. It could have been brilliant.
I play Space Wolves. I wish I could play a game without a joke about needing rabies shots. What happened to being badass space vikings?
Wolfwolfs and Fangfangs, and Thunderwolves, and Grimnar's Sleigh, are all extremely silly.
Agreed. This stuff is the only reason why I'm not returning to 8th as a Space Wolves player.
My understanding is that Imperial Fists are closest without the sillyness, but not sure I hate myself enough to paint the 30k yellow/black color scheme. Might just do Dark Angels.
There's nothing stopping you building a Viking themed Space Wolf Army. You don't have to go the full wolfening.
Yes but would it be still effective? Would it be as effective as a Dark Angels army that uses Deathwing and/or Ravenwing? Or even as effective as a basic Space Marine army?
The problem is that the silly stuff in the Space Wolves are also what gives them their main strength ATM. 8th might change this, and I hope it does, but otherwise I wouldn't know where to start in building a good wolf-less Space Wolf army.
I'm not saying to ingnore the units, just don't use the official models to represent them. Use standard tactical squads with an upgrade sprue etc. Make conversions to represent wulfen how you think they should look, and just use a stormraven instead of the wolfblimp it basically fills the same role.
Sensual_T_Rex wrote: Catachans I've never liked the look of them. I've also never met anyone who plays them in person. Seriously out of all the various imperial guard factions they could of kept (steel legion, iron guard, or valhallan) they had to stick with the wannabe Nam marines.
They're not just 'Nam dudes- they're all variations on Rambo.
And the plastics for them were a serious step down from their metal counterparts- and they've kept that particular mold in print forever.
Seriously, they should have guardsmen in trenchcoats with head options a long time ago. It could have been brilliant.
Well thanks a lot . Now I can't stop thinking about all the Catachans talking like Rocky Balboa. Ehh you wanna survive war Ehh you gotta become war ADRIAN!!!
I hadn't even thought of the Space Wolves line...yes...feel free to axe about 90% of it, and re-do it was proper Space Vikings...please. I don't mind hopping on that dogpile. Those models are fething atrocious.
Whats with all the hate for the Taurox? Sure it seems ugly...but its got a lot of character! If you have ever seen one in person they really aren't that bad, wheels would have been nice but they really aren't THAT terrible, dont lump them in with baby carriers, wulfs riding wulfs and flying santa sleds.
generalchaos34 wrote: Whats with all the hate for the Taurox? Sure it seems ugly...but its got a lot of character! If you have ever seen one in person they really aren't that bad, wheels would have been nice but they really aren't THAT terrible, dont lump them in with baby carriers, wulfs riding wulfs and flying santa sleds.
On a side note, I own 8 of them
The Taurox looks like 2 models that don't belong together, put together.
I think with a really minor rework it would be a terrific model.
generalchaos34 wrote: Whats with all the hate for the Taurox? Sure it seems ugly...but its got a lot of character! If you have ever seen one in person they really aren't that bad, wheels would have been nice but they really aren't THAT terrible, dont lump them in with baby carriers, wulfs riding wulfs and flying santa sleds.
On a side note, I own 8 of them
Probably because it's one of the more recent ones, it has a concrete touchstone to measure it against (the chimera), and it's not quite obnoxious enough to make your brain purge it from your memory (like the sled, I'd actually managed to forget about that one) but obnoxious enough to stick out, and it's flaws are really obvious and super easy to fix (wheels, as mentioned, help a lot) but GW chooses to ignore that. TBH if you own 8 of them that's fine. Every aesthetic has some proponents who like it, and I'd be okay playing against an army with 8 of them.
generalchaos34 wrote: Whats with all the hate for the Taurox? Sure it seems ugly...but its got a lot of character! If you have ever seen one in person they really aren't that bad, wheels would have been nice but they really aren't THAT terrible, dont lump them in with baby carriers, wulfs riding wulfs and flying santa sleds.
On a side note, I own 8 of them
Probably because it's one of the more recent ones, it has a concrete touchstone to measure it against (the chimera), and it's not quite obnoxious enough to make your brain purge it from your memory (like the sled, I'd actually managed to forget about that one) but obnoxious enough to stick out, and it's flaws are really obvious and super easy to fix (wheels, as mentioned, help a lot) but GW chooses to ignore that. TBH if you own 8 of them that's fine. Every aesthetic has some proponents who like it, and I'd be okay playing against an army with 8 of them.
Ironically I only use them as Primes, which 8 of them can really really pour out the firepower! Ive only recently magnetized them to be regular tauroxes, although....with twinlinking giving extra shots a 4 shot auto cannon could be quite good to have on an armor platform.
generalchaos34 wrote: Whats with all the hate for the Taurox? Sure it seems ugly...but its got a lot of character! If you have ever seen one in person they really aren't that bad, wheels would have been nice but they really aren't THAT terrible, dont lump them in with baby carriers, wulfs riding wulfs and flying santa sleds.
On a side note, I own 8 of them
partially it's because it's ugly, to most people at least, in mulitple ways (tracks dont look right and should have been wheels, the model is extremely "busy" with detail that clashes with the rest of the IG vehicle line, has a slightly "chibi" appearance, etc). Partially it's because it's tabletop effectiveness is has been...uninspiring. Partially it's because it wasnt really something that IG players were looking for when it got added and fills no real clear niche (at the same time GW removed several other, much liked units from the codex and hammer nerfed others inexplicably, like the Hydra), and partially because of a perception (rightly or wrongly) that the Chimera got nerfed unnecessarily to make the Taurox (as the new, dramatically more expensive, flashy kit) more attractive.
generalchaos34 wrote: Whats with all the hate for the Taurox? Sure it seems ugly...but its got a lot of character! If you have ever seen one in person they really aren't that bad, wheels would have been nice but they really aren't THAT terrible, dont lump them in with baby carriers, wulfs riding wulfs and flying santa sleds.
On a side note, I own 8 of them
partially it's because it's ugly, to most people at least, in mulitple ways (tracks dont look right and should have been wheels, the model is extremely "busy" with detail that clashes with the rest of the IG vehicle line, has a slightly "chibi" appearance, etc). Partially it's because it's tabletop effectiveness is has been...uninspiring. Partially it's because it wasnt really something that IG players were looking for when it got added and fills no real clear niche (at the same time GW removed several other, much liked units from the codex and hammer nerfed others inexplicably, like the Hydra), and partially because of a perception (rightly or wrongly) that the Chimera got nerfed unnecessarily to make the Taurox (as the new, dramatically more expensive, flashy kit) more attractive.
I can agree with it feeling forced, esp with the fire points going down. Interestingly enough hear that "fire points " are a thing of the past and lasgun array is the model for how new firepoints will work
As Primes however I always got my humble little tauroxes to be quite feared with their gatling cannons and twinlinked volley guns, esp once I started running them in the castellan formation and they kept recycling in once they died!
Imperial Guard:
- Taurox.
- Cadians, Valhallans, Mordians & Vostroyans.
Catachans need a new line for their grunts. Command squad and Hvy weapon teams are great. Rambo feels a little bit lonely by now. Therefore Schwarzenegger, Ventura & Weathers (Predator movie) need to be done as new special characters for the Nam vets. You just need retro badasses to save the galaxy and not silly Uber-Marines.
Space Marines:
- Centurions! Matrjoschkas. Are you kidding me, GW?
- Uber-Marines.
- Roboute.
Chaos Space Marines:
- Mutilators. I am quite astonished that nobody has mentioned them, yet. Jesus, their hideous mugs could even scare a GUO to death.
- Obliterators.
- Khorne Berzerkers.
Chaos Daemons:
- current Daemonettes. Where are our beloved Diaz Daemonettes?
Can we just get a new Chaos Marine sprue, like something less the current one we've had ever since I started. To say...Something of the quality of the Dark Vengenace Chosen?
Other then that. I probably wouldn't miss the Ymmari, but considering they have a page on GW's 'factions' I doubt they will go the way of Squats.
I am honestly not a fan of both the Taurox or the Scions. They both just seemed to miss the mark. With a little tweaking the Taurox could be great, make it slightly shorter and give it wheels and I would love the thing. The Scions have some great ideas, but their armor looks a bit too much like a cleaned up version of Chaos plate mail. Even though they are highly trained and we'll equipped humans, they are in fact still just humans and die like humans. They should not have armor as ornate as a Space Marine Commander, whose armor has been passed down from other Marines and is a relic unto itself.
NH Gunsmith wrote: I am honestly not a fan of both the Taurox or the Scions. They both just seemed to miss the mark. With a little tweaking the Taurox could be great, make it slightly shorter and give it wheels and I would love the thing. The Scions have some great ideas, but their armor looks a bit too much like a cleaned up version of Chaos plate mail. Even though they are highly trained and we'll equipped humans, they are in fact still just humans and die like humans. They should not have armor as ornate as a Space Marine Commander, whose armor has been passed down from other Marines and is a relic unto itself.
Tyanid skyslasher swarms, meteoric spores, and mycetic spores.
The number of different cheap nonsense spore models for nids is goofy. Get back to regular spore mines. Makes them scale well. Allow units like biovores, harpys, and sporecysts (should be a fortification) purchase units of spres as wargear but do not allow units of spores to be purchased on their own. They are only ever purchased that way to pay a tax. So dont allow it.
While I normally would think none, this. The sled.
Spoiler:
Rosebud?
On topic, I'm in the camp that *most* stuff has its place, and while many units deserve remodels (Taurox, Catachans, Dreadknight, Rough Riders, Ratlings, the face of the Ork that drives the Trukk), there are few models that deserve to be fully axed. Aforementioned sled comes to mind. I'm very split on Centurions. Their current model looks like it can hardly walk, and as mentioned by others, really steals the thunder of (read: spits on) Dreadnoughts and Terminators by squeezing in between the two and outclassing both. While being the ugliest of the three. However, with a better look, and by segregating the roles of each unit, I could see Cents sticking around.
I also agree that pure giant-suit Tau armies should die in a fire, but that's 100% a list building thing. 1) because all armies and their lists ought to have basic foot troops (and plenty of them IMO), which Tau do, yet 2) Fire Warriors look really, really cool, yet people don't bring them because formations are a thing, and 3) yes, Battletech is a thing if you want giant suits and nothing else. But I digress; I do like the aesthetic of the big Tau guys, even the Stormsurge; but without the little guys alongside them they start to look pretty ridiculous.
Edit: Add Deffkoptas to the remodel list, sort of. I love the AoBR ones, love em to death. The "current" ones ironically look more out of date, less capable of speeding along at breakneck speeds (I imagine them gently floating along like Lakitus from Mario games, pretty unfluffy for Orks) and definitely less attractive.
generalchaos34 wrote: Whats with all the hate for the Taurox? Sure it seems ugly...but its got a lot of character! If you have ever seen one in person they really aren't that bad, wheels would have been nice but they really aren't THAT terrible, dont lump them in with baby carriers, wulfs riding wulfs and flying santa sleds.
On a side note, I own 8 of them
The Taurox looks like 2 models that don't belong together, put together.
I think with a really minor rework it would be a terrific model.
It looks like it's tip-toeing.
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Zustiur wrote: I vote for removing all the Super heavy and gargantuan things, fliers and basically anything introduced since the big models fetish started.
Lots of stuff in the "redesign or finally get around to updating" list, but things that I think just don't fit the canon?
Centurions
Some of the horrendously gaudy space wolf stuff... I love the original space marauders look, moving towards space vikings- recent stuff is some sort of hyperbolic joke of a theme.
Honorable mentions to the majority of non-FW vehicles done in the past several years, as cartoony chunky little things with awkward design sense.
The Wolf sled.
The Taurox
The Stormraven
Horrible models that never should have been made. Stormraven takes the boxy, clunky design of Imperial vehicles waaaaaay too far. It is easily the most hideous model in the 40k range imo. The Taurox just looks awkward with its ridiculous little threads. They should have given it either threads or wheels, not something in-between. And the wolf-sled is just silly. I actually really like the Thunderwolves, and a chariot pulled by wolves actually sounds like a pretty cool idea, but the way they pulled it of it looks just like Santa Claus now.
Full speed attack craft that couldn't possibly turn around fast enough to have more than one strafing run? Get rid of those.
As long as I can actually shoot the damn things things im fine but I can't, like what the hell apart from skyfire rockets can chaos do against flyers (and heldrake I guess).
Zustiur wrote: I vote for removing all the Super heavy and gargantuan things, fliers and basically anything introduced since the big models fetish started.
that whole "Fliers and superheavies don't blong" nonsense. Aircraft are some of the best models that FW and GW produce.
Apple fox wrote: If they cannot at least come up with flying rules that are avg, they should drop them from the game Nothing would be lost.
With the complete destruction of USR and the normalization of models (MC and Vehicles and anything with a ton of wounds all degrading over the course of a battle), I would suspect that fliers are going to behave VERY different this edition in that they will behave VERY similar to everything else.
I expect a minimum and maximum move distance.
I expect no penalty to shooting at fliers with normal weapons. Or at the very most a -1 BS. Weapons that would have the "skyfire" USR before might negate that penalty.
I expect the Flier keyword will have them treat terrain and other models like they do now.
I expect them to behave in all other ways like any other model.
The only flyers I'd like to see kept in the game are shuttle-types (a real shame we don't have shuttle-equivalent aircraft for various races). No one needs fighter or ground-attack aircraft -- you can easily abstract those mechanics. Completely unnecessary to have models (of course, this is a model selling company we're discussing). This is also a game where we use missiles and artillery which could shoot 12-50 miles....and we fired them 150 yards away, so...
However dropship/shuttle...heck, even cargo craft would be a welcome addition for scenarios etc.
When they gave hope to a plastic Thunderhawk kit I thought a really cool/fun multiplayer event would be a huge multi-table actual planetary invasion - where the entire Space Marine/Imperium force could deploy across the tables but only via aircraft/drop pods, etc.
Just a terrible design. Terrible. Why did they make this and not an aquila lander?
Catachans haven't been sold in shops for ages so I can't really name them but I would not miss these guys.
Reasonably competent when they came out in 2003 or so, but now? Just dull.
Thunderwolves never bugged me but the sled, yeah, burn it.
Also GW has to (HAS TO!) go back to multipart figures. I make models to tell my stories, not yours. I don't want a special character (and especially not a generic character) that can only be assembled one way. I would buy the heck out of a plastic commissar kit, instead we get this:
I love the idea of orcs in space, and the barbaric Mad Max look they received in 3rd was cool. It's hard to imagine how a horde of orkz can have any success on the future battlefields where advanced weapons and high explosives should make short work of them.
I can't think of models that needs to go, but I will really appreciate SNAP FIT kits, that are also multi part, so it wont kill converesion. I lose way too much time in cutting, sanding, glueing...
"and then one Tuesday afternoon Robourt upgraded all Space Marine Dreadnoughts to Contemptors and had their old bodies converted back into washing machines for the Chapter Laundrarium which is where they came from in the first place."
... no, I can't think of any models they should get rid of. That's just mean-spirited, and isn't fair to the people who own those models.
I wouldn't mind if they just stopped selling some of them, though (not keen on the Stormraven, myself, although being bright red doesn't do it any favours).
I like that commissar, and it's pretty easy to replace the sword and pistol. Moreso than the single-part models he replaced, anyway.
Orks seem silly to me. Also the massive vehicles and creatures, just getting to be too much at that point, may as well just put your power ranger action figure on the table.
Just a terrible design. Terrible. Why did they make this and not an aquila lander?
Catachans haven't been sold in shops for ages so I can't really name them but I would not miss these guys.
Reasonably competent when they came out in 2003 or so, but now? Just dull.
Thunderwolves never bugged me but the sled, yeah, burn it.
Also GW has to (HAS TO!) go back to multipart figures. I make models to tell my stories, not yours. I don't want a special character (and especially not a generic character) that can only be assembled one way. I would buy the heck out of a plastic commissar kit, instead we get this:
Do you want a bolt pistol or a plasma?
GW please STOP THAT. You can do better.
We need more kits like the Orc Warboss/Empire General or the Battle Mages box. THATS how you make a generic hero/HQ with variety. I totally agree, feth the monopose and 0 customizaion guys!
I'm hoping that 9th Edition is just Gorkamorka. Nothing but Orks. GW will helpfully sell upgrade kits to Orkify all your existing models.
STREWTH!!! Angry Washing Machine gaks all over the Tall Tubby Termie!
TBH, considering how I play, and how GW wants us to play, Orkifying everything isn't out of the question. We'd still chuck dice, make loud noises, and remove models by the handful. LOUD NOISES!
I'd rather see some old kits updated than start throwing things away. My top list of things that I think need to be updated:
1) Guard infantry. There is just something about their Cadian line that just isn't doing it for me. It's a combination of their strange proportions, ham fists, and awkward poses I guess. Regardless, I hope they finally re do this army.
2) Sisters of Battle. For all love, either update them or kill them off. This crappy purgatory the army has been in is even worse than Bret players went through. They're a cool concept that fills a niche in both the background and model ranges not found anywhere else. If GW doesn't want them around, just say so.
3) various Chaos kits. Despite being the iconic bad guys of the background, some of their kits are either poorly executed or just so dated a revamp would be most welcome. I'm rather surprised GW doesn't give CSM a little more attention aside from random sub faction releases.
If I had to pick units I really just despise, and wished had never been released:
That weird DA land speeder altar.... Thing.
The Taurox vehicle. Just... Why? Who thought that looked cool?
Centurions. I bought a box of them because they are pretty much the answer to almost anything on the table, but couldn't bring myself to assemble let alone paint them. Probably the worst concept GW has had in a while.
Guard.
Lets face it, Marines are the most common force in the 40k universe and the NuMarines fill the gap the old marines were supposed to fill- there's no more need to keep these useless boot lickers or their players.
...what about getting new Warbuggy kits and a revamped plastic Ghaz guys? Remember how Orks were "supposed" to get a Triumvirate based solely on wishful thinking but they didn't get anything, just like Orcs got nothing for the End Times?
MagicJuggler wrote: ...what about getting new Warbuggy kits and a revamped plastic Ghaz guys? Remember how Orks were "supposed" to get a Triumvirate based solely on wishful thinking but they didn't get anything, just like Orcs got nothing for the End Times?
New warbuggy kits were rumored a while back, but may have been disproven IDK. New Ghazzy would be nice.
They went away around the time of the Astra Militarum book(2013).
in the process.
