http://www.3plusplus.net/2017/06/dark-angels-space-wovles-full-8th-edition-rules/

Looking over it all i'm fairly happy we've had some good improvements:

-Bloodclaws now have 3+ in melee which will be a boost
-Wolflord on thunderwolf has 4 attacks and 7 wounds plus the mounts attacks aswell all around pretty sweet
-Canis just makes your wolves brutal
-Healing balms are nice for priests
-Iron priests on thunderwolves are tasty with the tempest hammer
-Scouts are once again useful able to pop up nearly anywhere with special weapons and heavy weapons
-Wulfen arn't cheap but remain great for buffing other units and with no instant death will be much harder to shift
-Lone wolves are pretty fantastic 4+ fnp and a wulfen ability to always strike once more before he's removed
-Thunder wolves are W3 now and while the rider lost an attack you get it back from the mount
-longfang wolfguard can take weapons from terminator heavy weapons thats new i think

Cons:
- fenrisian wolves will die hard to battleshock

Over all i'm pretty happy how we stand what do you think?

hobojebus wrote:


-longfang wolfguard can take weapons from terminator heavy weapons thats new i think

I was excited to see the possibility of the missile massacre lists from 5th/6th edition coming back, then I saw the point cost total.
A single wolf guard terminator with cyclone launcher for 87pt with minimum gear for two extra missiles with 36" range is really expensive.

Still, 30 missiles round 1 for 1200p (or 1722 and 42 missiles w/ embedded Termies) with just 6x5+1 Long Fangs should bring a lot of hurt. Vanilla Devs are 1020p for 6 missiles less and no option to embed Cyclone Termies.

Blizzard Shield lost it's facing requirement, Great Axe loses 2 S and 2 AP, but gains +1 Attack and d6 Damage so that is a 3+/3++/6+FnP that can be repaired by Iron Priests
Rune Priests can get 5++ (4++ for TA) fairly cheaply
Harald Deathwolf is cheaper and 2+/2++ vs Shooting (lack of mention of storm shield in the item blurb is probably an editorial error since it is included in the rules box with his name on it), 2 AP (changes to power weapons), -1 A and -1 S (thunderwolf changes) and gets a D2 Frost Axe with a chance to cause a mortal wound.
Grey Hunters get their chainswords for free (why not just include it in the item blurb?)

And those are just what popped out to my eye. With army-wide special rules getting tossed out of the window and the points values staying the same without including wargear costs results in a lot of price increases on units and that is before having to repurchase their wargear, a lot of which got more expensive (heavy weapons especially).

The grey hunter thing makes no sense to me either its not like you'd ever not do it.

As for cost of wolfguard they seem hell bent on getting away from spamming heavy weapons which I'm okay with I want a melee army.

The couple things SW have that cought my eye are:

Long Fangs re-rolling 1s to hit vs their chosen target means they don't need a wolf lord babysitting them like other SM might. A WGBL to reroll the wounds is good though, and cheap.

TWC and Wulfen are as good as ever.

Blood claws may now be the backbone of the army.

Grey hunters and wolf guard seem solid, but also expensive for what they do and how easy they die.

Wolf Lords, Wolf Guard Battle Leaders, and Wolf Priests for re-rolls are all extremely useful.

Thunderwolves no longer have access to S10.
The only vanilla Wolf Lords we can get are on Thunderwolves.
Murderfang is a BEAST!
Lukas the Trickster is still slow but due to being on the better side of the loss of Challenges is totally capable of mass murder.
Grey Hunters are solid as ever.
Curse of the Wulfen lost the randomness but kept the best parts as buffs.
Flyers still suck.
After finding out what the Teleport Homing Beacon does in 8th I was mortified to find out the Wolves no longer have access to them.
Wolf Scouts became amazing.
Fenrisian Wolves got more expensive and lost speed.
Looking for reasons not to build a Shield/Axe Ven Dread and not finding one.
SWIFTCLAWS.
Wolf Priests on bikes healing balms backing TWC will be brilliant.

I like most changes
BUT

the Grey Hunters rules just showed that GW did not care
I mean giving them a was a change in 5th when GW tried to remove all unit special rules in flavour of USR

So with the new rules, they don't need the Pistol any more to get their +1 Attack for just having Bolter+Chainsword
But they kept the basic point cost higher than for Tactical Marines, kept the Pistol and made the Sword optional
WTF
completely missing the point of Grey Hunters, being the losers of 8th with the changes to Blood Claws

PS:
some people miss the first page of SW rules
we can take vanilla Dreads and Lords, we just need to use the vanilla profile in generic list (there is a list of what units can be taken as Space Wolves from the generic SM list)

those pistols can fire when in melee, having a chainsword AND a pistol isn't a bad thing. as someone with a chaos army I'm a little salty that grey hunters get a boltgun, bolt pistol, AND chain sword.

BrianDavion wrote:
those pistols can fire when in melee, having a chainsword AND a pistol isn't a bad thing. as someone with a chaos army I'm a little salty that grey hunters get a boltgun, bolt pistol, AND chain sword.

the point is not that it is bad but that the sword should be default and the pistol optional (or not there) there is no point why they should have all 3 weapons
they just did not care what the unit is about when writing the rules but did only a 1:1 transformation of the last codex

 kodos wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
those pistols can fire when in melee, having a chainsword AND a pistol isn't a bad thing. as someone with a chaos army I'm a little salty that grey hunters get a boltgun, bolt pistol, AND chain sword.

the point is not that it is bad but that the sword should be default and the pistol optional (or not there) there is no point why they should have all 3 weapons
they just did not care what the unit is about when writing the rules but did only a 1:1 transformation of the last codex

They have had all three weapons since at least 5th, being able to buy Chainswords to carry along with the Pistol and Bolter made the Grey Hunters a unit that could fire twenty four inches, drop a round of bolt pistols before charging, rapid fire in overwatch and get three attacks per model on the charge and in response to charges and two attacks normally. Before 6th edition when Apocalypse units were dumped in Standard and Assault was needed for a vehicle to be useful a Rhino full of Grey Hunters packing a Wolf Standard was something that needed to be forced off an objective by at least equal points rather than blown away by any stray blast.

Just having a look at the list for a friend who is thinking of doing SW, and I might be being blind but I can't see any Dreadnoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah no I see, they can take Dreadnoughts. So do they get any SW-specific weapons for dreads?

 Doge_Read wrote:
Just having a look at the list for a friend who is thinking of doing SW, and I might be being blind but I can't see any Dreadnoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah no I see, they can take Dreadnoughts. So do they get any SW-specific weapons for dreads?

Yes, they can take a fenrisian great axe and a blizzard shield. or they can carry a hellfrost cannon and a great wolf claw if they want.

Mleander wrote:

 Doge_Read wrote:
Just having a look at the list for a friend who is thinking of doing SW, and I might be being blind but I can't see any Dreadnoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah no I see, they can take Dreadnoughts. So do they get any SW-specific weapons for dreads?

Yes, they can take a fenrisian great axe and a blizzard shield. or they can carry a hellfrost cannon and a great wolf claw if they want.

Don't be forgetting Bjorn and Murderfang.

Will be nice to run dreads again then died way to fast the last two editions.

hobojebus wrote:
Will be nice to run dreads again then died way to fast the last two editions.

Distraction Carnifexes.
Dread, Lucius Pod, PF with HFlamer and Multimelta.
155 points for a nasty surprise on your first turn, cleans out troops, busts up vehicles and demands attention.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
Will be nice to run dreads again then died way to fast the last two editions.

Distraction Carnifexes.
Dread, Lucius Pod, PF with HFlamer and Multimelta.
155 points for a nasty surprise on your first turn, cleans out troops, busts up vehicles and demands attention.

Can pods still come in first turn? Drop Pod Assault got changed didn't it?

 Doge_Read wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

hobojebus wrote:
Will be nice to run dreads again then died way to fast the last two editions.

Distraction Carnifexes.
Dread, Lucius Pod, PF with HFlamer and Multimelta.
155 points for a nasty surprise on your first turn, cleans out troops, busts up vehicles and demands attention.

Can pods still come in first turn? Drop Pod Assault got changed didn't it?

They arrive when you say they do.
Bigger issue is Dreads can no longer board a Pod.

I can defently say that Wolfpriest in terminator armor for healing and rerolling hits for Ajac and Wolfguard, along with Wulfen is awsome stuff. I defenetly felt abit cheesy when i fielded Arjac, Wolfguard, Land Raider Crusader, Wolf Priests, Wulfen and Murderfang.

Space Wolves are in a good spot

 Brutallica wrote:
I can defently say that Wolfpriest in terminator armor for healing and rerolling hits for Ajac and Wolfguard, along with Wulfen is awsome stuff. I defenetly felt abit cheesy when i fielded Arjac, Wolfguard, Land Raider Crusader, Wolf Priests, Wulfen and Murderfang.

Space Wolves are in a good spot

Solid.
Guard still scare the spit out of us.

What do you guys think of the Headstrong special rule for the BC's? They HAVE to charge the enemy as soon as they get within 12 inches of an enemy. Potentially getting overwatched and failing their charge. Unless they bring a WGPL.

That's not that hard to get around, if you got within 12" and weren't going to charge that round, you'd be risking a counter charge as is, which would deny them both first strike and their unique extra attack.

Thunderwolves adding three attacks of their own is a bit of a step down compared to the buffs they offered before. It does mean you've got a lot more attacks stock, but notably weaker attacks. Power and frost weapons are cheaper on them, but you are only getting two attacks with said weapons, as opposed to the 5-6 you would before.

Wulfen look to be even better on the other hand.

At the moment I tend to use 1-2 units of Wulfen with 2 full Squads of Blood Claws supported by 2 priest and WG on Bikes with Combi Melter and Land Speeder with heavy flamers as support

Mleander wrote:
What do you guys think of the Headstrong special rule for the BC's? They HAVE to charge the enemy as soon as they get within 12 inches of an enemy. Potentially getting overwatched and failing their charge. Unless they bring a WGPL.

I always would take a Wolf Guard for Blood Claws
Who let the trainees out with out their drill Sergeant?

I looked through the index at my FLGW-Store.

A few models have wonky options that prevent taking twin wolf claws (Lone Wolves, TWC) or really any two weapons off of the SW melee weapons list. I'm not sure if it was done on purpose (to prevent Hammer/Claw spam) but not being able to run a twin-claw lone wolf seems a bit off.

I'm painting up new Space Wolves after a long absence it looks like I will need to add some Icons to grey hunter packs.

 kodos wrote:
At the moment I tend to use 1-2 units of Wulfen with 2 full Squads of Blood Claws supported by 2 priest and WG on Bikes with Combi Melter and Land Speeder with heavy flamers as support

Mleander wrote:
What do you guys think of the Headstrong special rule for the BC's? They HAVE to charge the enemy as soon as they get within 12 inches of an enemy. Potentially getting overwatched and failing their charge. Unless they bring a WGPL.

I always would take a Wolf Guard for Blood Claws
Who let the trainees out with out their drill Sergeant?

Guilty, my Skyclaws harassed enemy units with Flamers, getting a pack leader involved upped their cost when they only needed to be a tempting target.
You've only got to be within 6" of a friendly Wolf Guard model to keep them in check, still crushes my use for them though.

I'm also guilty, and for the exact same reason.

yellowfever wrote:
I'm also guilty, and for the exact same reason.

*Fistbump*
Wonderfully versatile, throw a frag grenade, drop two flame templates then take pot shots with the bolt pistols Guard, Eldar and Tau would feel that good, if they could laugh that off give them a krack grenade and four bolt pistols. You could use them to soak overwatch away from other units. If they couldn't hurt anything of the enemy army Deepstrike and high mobility made them great late game objective snaggers.
Just 85 points.

2 questions.

Now if i have a squad of 5 Bloodclaws (1 packleader and 4 regular bloodclaws) and wanna add a vanilla Wolf Guard Pack Leader to that unit, is that only 16 points extra? or how does it work?

And second for the Skyclaws. Whats is a Wolf Guard Sky Leader? Is it also just 16 points extra or is it a WGPL + a jump pack?

Mleander wrote:
2 questions.

Now if i have a squad of 5 Bloodclaws (1 packleader and 4 regular bloodclaws) and wanna add a vanilla Wolf Guard Pack Leader to that unit, is that only 16 points extra? or how does it work?

And second for the Skyclaws. Whats is a Wolf Guard Sky Leader? Is it also just 16 points extra or is it a WGPL + a jump pack?

That will hopefully be a FAQ soon.
I paid for a Wolf Guard with Jump Pack and tacked it on, seemed logical.

I say they cost the same as a Blood Claw because Wolf Guard Pack Leaders in TDA hav a cost listed for each squad that could take them. Power armored ones not, so they cost he same as the rest of the models in the unit.

I think Grey Hunters are better than Blood Claws. Only 1 point more but much better firepower and versatility. the only thing they lose is 1 attack on the charge. The banner is also nice.

Scouts are also nifty to prevent the enemy from disengaging from your melee units.

Ragnar69 wrote:
I say they cost the same as a Blood Claw because Wolf Guard Pack Leaders in TDA hav a cost listed for each squad that could take them. Power armored ones not, so they cost he same as the rest of the models in the unit.

I think Grey Hunters are better than Blood Claws. Only 1 point more but much better firepower and versatility. the only thing they lose is 1 attack on the charge. The banner is also nice.

Scouts are also nifty to prevent the enemy from disengaging from your melee units.

Interesting use for the Scouts.

Can no modells take a pair of Wolf claws or can every model that can take an item form the Space Wolves melee wapon list chose to take a pair. I feel its not clear in the index. Or am i missing somerhing?

Your missing well written rules same as the rest of us, we'll be waiting on many FAQ simply because of dev laziness.

hobojebus wrote:
Your missing well written rules same as the rest of us, we'll be waiting on many FAQ simply because of dev laziness.

As if the ruleset being copy/paste from earlier editions and AoS wasn't clue enough.
Still, gotta admit games play out fairly quickly.

Mleander wrote:
Can no modells take a pair of Wolf claws or can every model that can take an item form the Space Wolves melee wapon list chose to take a pair. I feel its not clear in the index. Or am i missing somerhing?

We talked through it with the Index in hand at the GW store on Saturday. I think clarification from GW would be handy to intent. (SWMWL - SpaceWolfMeleeWeaponList... SWCWL - Space Wolf CombiWeapon List).

Thunderwolf Cav have two options (paraphrased here):
Armed with Chainsword and Bolt Pistol
* Replace Chainsword with a weapon from the SWMWL.
* Replace Bolt Pistol with Bolter, Plasma Pistol or Storm Shield.

RAW - there's no option that lets you pick multiple items from the SWMWL for thunderwolf cav, Lone Wolves (ironically, since there's a picture of one right below the entry with twin wolf claws) and a few other models IIRC.


There ARE models that specifically allow picking two items from the SWMWL... Wolf Guard & WG-Termis or even a Thunderwolf-Lord.

Both of those models have a:
Replace Default Melee weapon with a SWMWL
Replace Default Ranged Weapon with either a Storm Shield, SWCWL or SWMWL


I think it would make sense to ping GW with the examples and ask if the index writers A: intended to limit access to two melee weapons, B: even wolf claws? C: even on Lone wolves?

I also think there are some hold over issues because in the 7th ed codex, you could swap out EITHER the power-fist or Storm Bolter for a storm shield and that's not how the options are written so some 7th ed terminator builds may not be legit either.


Is it a great list-rending issue... probably not... but in Tournament play, or against 'That Guy' it may come up.

Overall I'm pleased with the state of things, but only time will tell whether or not the Wolves are truly balanced when compared to other lists.

I am happy myself about most everything.
I will miss Drop Pod Terminators and Dreads and they made to willing to take jump packs, but that goes back to the 2nd Edition...if they had only let the Assault Cannon/Cyclone Missile Spam back...

Ulfhednar_42 wrote:

Mleander wrote:
Can no modells take a pair of Wolf claws or can every model that can take an item form the Space Wolves melee wapon list chose to take a pair. I feel its not clear in the index. Or am i missing somerhing?

We talked through it with the Index in hand at the GW store on Saturday. I think clarification from GW would be handy to intent. (SWMWL - SpaceWolfMeleeWeaponList... SWCWL - Space Wolf CombiWeapon List).

Thunderwolf Cav have two options (paraphrased here):
Armed with Chainsword and Bolt Pistol
* Replace Chainsword with a weapon from the SWMWL.
* Replace Bolt Pistol with Bolter, Plasma Pistol or Storm Shield.

RAW - there's no option that lets you pick multiple items from the SWMWL for thunderwolf cav, Lone Wolves (ironically, since there's a picture of one right below the entry with twin wolf claws) and a few other models IIRC.


There ARE models that specifically allow picking two items from the SWMWL... Wolf Guard & WG-Termis or even a Thunderwolf-Lord.

Both of those models have a:
Replace Default Melee weapon with a SWMWL
Replace Default Ranged Weapon with either a Storm Shield, SWCWL or SWMWL


I think it would make sense to ping GW with the examples and ask if the index writers A: intended to limit access to two melee weapons, B: even wolf claws? C: even on Lone wolves?

I also think there are some hold over issues because in the 7th ed codex, you could swap out EITHER the power-fist or Storm Bolter for a storm shield and that's not how the options are written so some 7th ed terminator builds may not be legit either.


Is it a great list-rending issue... probably not... but in Tournament play, or against 'That Guy' it may come up.

Where do we ping?

I have started a thread where I am going through the Space wolves Unit by Unit.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/727226.page

Is anyone aware of Forgeworld drop pods being able to carry our dreadnoughts now?

That's a big hit to how I planned on using my Dreads.. but I suppose they can actually walk around at a decent pace and live now.

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Is anyone aware of Forgeworld drop pods being able to carry our dreadnoughts now?

That's a big hit to how I planned on using my Dreads.. but I suppose they can actually walk around at a decent pace and live now.

I've always used the Lucius Pod. Is that no longer an option?

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Is anyone aware of Forgeworld drop pods being able to carry our dreadnoughts now?

That's a big hit to how I planned on using my Dreads.. but I suppose they can actually walk around at a decent pace and live now.

I've always used the Lucius Pod. Is that no longer an option?

It isn't in the general release from what I've seen. I haven't checked the Forgeworld books yet that supposedly people have seen.

I'm also unsure how to equip my Wolf Guard Terminators now... I may stick with my original plan of TH/SS just because I think that's cool.. but I'm not sure now.

I am very happy with how we seemed to have turned out though. This will be a fun edition!

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Is anyone aware of Forgeworld drop pods being able to carry our dreadnoughts now?

That's a big hit to how I planned on using my Dreads.. but I suppose they can actually walk around at a decent pace and live now.

I've always used the Lucius Pod. Is that no longer an option?

It isn't in the general release from what I've seen. I haven't checked the Forgeworld books yet that supposedly people have seen.

I'm also unsure how to equip my Wolf Guard Terminators now... I may stick with my original plan of TH/SS just because I think that's cool.. but I'm not sure now.

I am very happy with how we seemed to have turned out though. This will be a fun edition!

Terminators have had the same purpose since Space Wolves got TWC and Wulfen - dust collectors, paperweights if you have metal ones.
If you dig Terminators look up 8th edition Teleport Homing Beacons and Deathwatch Homing Beacons - They're the best thing to happen to Terminators since...possibly ever, seems we missed out but I hope I'm wrong and missed something.

I am looking forward to being able to run my Leman Russ Exterminator with my Space Wolves again since it shares the "Imperium" keyword.

A Wolf priest on a bike to keep TWC healthy looks like a good option.

Also our Tempest Hammer is a fantastic upgrade over a Thunderhammer. For just 5 extra points, it removes the -1 to hit penalty and does the occasional free Mortal Wound against multi-wound targets.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Terminators have had the same purpose since Space Wolves got TWC and Wulfen - dust collectors, paperweights if you have metal ones.
If you dig Terminators look up 8th edition Teleport Homing Beacons and Deathwatch Homing Beacons - They're the best thing to happen to Terminators since...possibly ever, seems we missed out but I hope I'm wrong and missed something.

But... Termies with Arjac are just so cool. :(

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Terminators have had the same purpose since Space Wolves got TWC and Wulfen - dust collectors, paperweights if you have metal ones.
If you dig Terminators look up 8th edition Teleport Homing Beacons and Deathwatch Homing Beacons - They're the best thing to happen to Terminators since...possibly ever, seems we missed out but I hope I'm wrong and missed something.

But... Termies with Arjac are just so cool. :(

Then get to looking for Teleport Homing Beacons that can work with Space Wolves. Those things are AMAZING.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Terminators have had the same purpose since Space Wolves got TWC and Wulfen - dust collectors, paperweights if you have metal ones.
If you dig Terminators look up 8th edition Teleport Homing Beacons and Deathwatch Homing Beacons - They're the best thing to happen to Terminators since...possibly ever, seems we missed out but I hope I'm wrong and missed something.

But... Termies with Arjac are just so cool. :(

Then get to looking for Teleport Homing Beacons that can work with Space Wolves. Those things are AMAZING.

I see what you're referring to. I suppose that'd be useful if you had Longfangs in your deployment zone or an objective... but otherwise they're the same as regular termies which seem to be better.

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Terminators have had the same purpose since Space Wolves got TWC and Wulfen - dust collectors, paperweights if you have metal ones.
If you dig Terminators look up 8th edition Teleport Homing Beacons and Deathwatch Homing Beacons - They're the best thing to happen to Terminators since...possibly ever, seems we missed out but I hope I'm wrong and missed something.

But... Termies with Arjac are just so cool. :(

Then get to looking for Teleport Homing Beacons that can work with Space Wolves. Those things are AMAZING.

I see what you're referring to. I suppose that'd be useful if you had Longfangs in your deployment zone or an objective... but otherwise they're the same as regular termies which seem to be better.

Longfangs? I don't follow.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Terminators have had the same purpose since Space Wolves got TWC and Wulfen - dust collectors, paperweights if you have metal ones.
If you dig Terminators look up 8th edition Teleport Homing Beacons and Deathwatch Homing Beacons - They're the best thing to happen to Terminators since...possibly ever, seems we missed out but I hope I'm wrong and missed something.

But... Termies with Arjac are just so cool. :(

Then get to looking for Teleport Homing Beacons that can work with Space Wolves. Those things are AMAZING.

I see what you're referring to. I suppose that'd be useful if you had Longfangs in your deployment zone or an objective... but otherwise they're the same as regular termies which seem to be better.

Longfangs? I don't follow.

The SW version of a Devastator squad.

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Terminators have had the same purpose since Space Wolves got TWC and Wulfen - dust collectors, paperweights if you have metal ones.
If you dig Terminators look up 8th edition Teleport Homing Beacons and Deathwatch Homing Beacons - They're the best thing to happen to Terminators since...possibly ever, seems we missed out but I hope I'm wrong and missed something.

But... Termies with Arjac are just so cool. :(

Then get to looking for Teleport Homing Beacons that can work with Space Wolves. Those things are AMAZING.

I see what you're referring to. I suppose that'd be useful if you had Longfangs in your deployment zone or an objective... but otherwise they're the same as regular termies which seem to be better.

Longfangs? I don't follow.

The SW version of a Devastator squad.

Not the confusion. What do Longfangs have to do with Terminators and Homing Beacons?

I'm happy to hear I can use my Bloodclaw and Greyhunter based army and not just be laughed at. I like TWC but it was annoying to have them as my only real threat.

 biggie_reg wrote:
I'm happy to hear I can use my Bloodclaw and Greyhunter based army and not just be laughed at. I like TWC but it was annoying to have them as my only real threat.

I'm guessing you never cared for the Ironwolves or Blackmane formations?

So I play AGAINST Arjac last night. He gets a extra attack for every wolf guard model within 6? Holyyy gak that's insane.

No, he grants 1 attack to each Wolf Guard model (including himself) in units within 6"

EDIT: those attacks happen at the start of the fight phase, so BEFORE chargers attack !!!

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Terminators have had the same purpose since Space Wolves got TWC and Wulfen - dust collectors, paperweights if you have metal ones.
If you dig Terminators look up 8th edition Teleport Homing Beacons and Deathwatch Homing Beacons - They're the best thing to happen to Terminators since...possibly ever, seems we missed out but I hope I'm wrong and missed something.

But... Termies with Arjac are just so cool. :(

Then get to looking for Teleport Homing Beacons that can work with Space Wolves. Those things are AMAZING.

I see what you're referring to. I suppose that'd be useful if you had Longfangs in your deployment zone or an objective... but otherwise they're the same as regular termies which seem to be better.

Longfangs? I don't follow.

The SW version of a Devastator squad.

Not the confusion. What do Longfangs have to do with Terminators and Homing Beacons?

Oh I see. Well I went back and read it and the beacon is deployed in your own deployment zone. If enemies come near it, you can teleport 6" away from the beacon. So they sound nice for being able to quickly jump back and defend your line/static units but if you have a more fully assault based army it doesn't seem as needed.

So my point was it'd be useful to defend a static unit like long fangs.

Ragnar69 wrote:
No, he grants 1 attack to each Wolf Guard model (including himself) in units within 6"

EDIT: those attacks happen at the start of the fight phase, so BEFORE chargers attack !!!

Do you have something from GW saying that? 4 of us read it last night and read it as Arjac gets the extra attacks

 biggie_reg wrote:
I'm happy to hear I can use my Bloodclaw and Greyhunter based army and not just be laughed at. I like TWC but it was annoying to have them as my only real threat.

Given I run Ragnar's great army I'm happy blood claws no longer bounce off stuff, I didn't play in 7th because fekke that mess but in 6th they were worthless and I ended up with a shooty army the opposite of what I want to play, then I quit.

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Terminators have had the same purpose since Space Wolves got TWC and Wulfen - dust collectors, paperweights if you have metal ones.
If you dig Terminators look up 8th edition Teleport Homing Beacons and Deathwatch Homing Beacons - They're the best thing to happen to Terminators since...possibly ever, seems we missed out but I hope I'm wrong and missed something.

But... Termies with Arjac are just so cool. :(

Then get to looking for Teleport Homing Beacons that can work with Space Wolves. Those things are AMAZING.

I see what you're referring to. I suppose that'd be useful if you had Longfangs in your deployment zone or an objective... but otherwise they're the same as regular termies which seem to be better.

Longfangs? I don't follow.

The SW version of a Devastator squad.

Not the confusion. What do Longfangs have to do with Terminators and Homing Beacons?

Oh I see. Well I went back and read it and the beacon is deployed in your own deployment zone. If enemies come near it, you can teleport 6" away from the beacon. So they sound nice for being able to quickly jump back and defend your line/static units but if you have a more fully assault based army it doesn't seem as needed.

So my point was it'd be useful to defend a static unit like long fangs.

Fair call, it's also good for taking a shot at killing linebreakers when you've committed everything forwards it's nice to have a chance at going back and offing them.

 AaronWilson wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
No, he grants 1 attack to each Wolf Guard model (including himself) in units within 6"

EDIT: those attacks happen at the start of the fight phase, so BEFORE chargers attack !!!

Do you have something from GW saying that? 4 of us read it last night and read it as Arjac gets the extra attacks

No, and reading it again I'm not so sure anymore. But everyone being inspired by his presence makes more sense than him swinging the hammer faster than a turbine-fan on a Land Speeder

Ragnar69 wrote:

 AaronWilson wrote:

Do you have something from GW saying that? 4 of us read it last night and read it as Arjac gets the extra attacks

No, and reading it again I'm not so sure anymore. But everyone being inspired by his presence makes more sense than him swinging the hammer faster than a turbine-fan on a Land Speeder

I think it is the other WG that get +1A although I agree the wording is ambiguous as it just says:

"you can make 1 additional attack in the Fight phase for all models in friendly Wolf Guard units within 6" of Arjac Rockfist at the start of the phase."

Closest easy equivalent is the Wolf priest's Oath of war which says:

"You can re-roll failed hit rolls in the Fight phase for friendly Space Wolves units within 6" of this model"

In the case of the Wolf Priest, I think it is pretty clear that the re-roll applies to models within the bubble. By extension I would assume the same for Arjac's ability and play it accordingly although an FAQ would help a lot here.

I fear our Claws are once again sub-par. 5 WG bikers cost only 15 points more than 5 Swiftclaws, have way better shooting (bolter + twin-bolter!), are just as good in melee on the charge and better when not charging and have better option for equipment.

Blood Claws lose out to the way more flexible Grey Hunters with only 1 point difference.

Skyclaws could be a tad better than WG with jump packs as you get 25% more models for the same points.

TWC are not bad but no auto-include anymore. I can't wait to use my Wolf Lord and WG in TDA again
Though getting a Land Raider for them is still out of the question. While the models are viable now, their costs have also increased and you would have 1/3 of your army in one basket.

Thing to remember is its easy to give rerolls of one on hit and wound rolls now which boosts them, psychic powers mean you can foot slog a big pack if you want with the expectations they make it mostly intact.

Ragnar69 wrote:
I fear our Claws are once again sub-par. 5 WG bikers cost only 15 points more than 5 Swiftclaws, have way better shooting (bolter + twin-bolter!), are just as good in melee on the charge and better when not charging and have better option for equipment.

Blood Claws lose out to the way more flexible Grey Hunters with only 1 point difference.

Skyclaws could be a tad better than WG with jump packs as you get 25% more models for the same points.

TWC are not bad but no auto-include anymore. I can't wait to use my Wolf Lord and WG in TDA again
Though getting a Land Raider for them is still out of the question. While the models are viable now, their costs have also increased and you would have 1/3 of your army in one basket.

Can you get a Wolf Lord in TDA?
I'm pretty sure the only Vanilla Wolf Lord you can get comes standard with a Thunderwolf and only Grimnar comes with it.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
I fear our Claws are once again sub-par. 5 WG bikers cost only 15 points more than 5 Swiftclaws, have way better shooting (bolter + twin-bolter!), are just as good in melee on the charge and better when not charging and have better option for equipment.

Blood Claws lose out to the way more flexible Grey Hunters with only 1 point difference.

Skyclaws could be a tad better than WG with jump packs as you get 25% more models for the same points.

TWC are not bad but no auto-include anymore. I can't wait to use my Wolf Lord and WG in TDA again
Though getting a Land Raider for them is still out of the question. While the models are viable now, their costs have also increased and you would have 1/3 of your army in one basket.

Can you get a Wolf Lord in TDA?
I'm pretty sure the only Vanilla Wolf Lord you can get comes standard with a Thunderwolf and only Grimnar comes with it.

You can't take a Wolf Lord as far as I can tell without it being on the thunder wolf. However.. you can take the Wolf Guard Battle Leader in Termie armor as your HQ.

I am disappointed to see the Tempestas Discipline being tiny. I'm also noticing a distinct lack of Fury of the Wolf Spirits and Living Lightning.

I always liked the idea of my Rune Priests shouting at the sky and being answered by bolts of lightning from above.

Otherwise, looks decent.

Yeah. All the of the psychic disciplines have only 3 abilities though.

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Yeah. All the of the psychic disciplines have only 3 abilities though.

Yeah, but the they took away the powers I liked best. Jaws is still here, though.

It does look like Rune Priests will be less auto-take for me, now. I have 3 or 4, and the rule of 1 makes me sad.

Oh well. We'll figure out a way, and I'm sure Bran will still be awesome.

On that note, is Bran in FW's index, or did he go missing since they still don't have a model for him?

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
I fear our Claws are once again sub-par. 5 WG bikers cost only 15 points more than 5 Swiftclaws, have way better shooting (bolter + twin-bolter!), are just as good in melee on the charge and better when not charging and have better option for equipment.

Blood Claws lose out to the way more flexible Grey Hunters with only 1 point difference.

Skyclaws could be a tad better than WG with jump packs as you get 25% more models for the same points.

TWC are not bad but no auto-include anymore. I can't wait to use my Wolf Lord and WG in TDA again
Though getting a Land Raider for them is still out of the question. While the models are viable now, their costs have also increased and you would have 1/3 of your army in one basket.

Can you get a Wolf Lord in TDA?
I'm pretty sure the only Vanilla Wolf Lord you can get comes standard with a Thunderwolf and only Grimnar comes with it.

Yes you can. Index tells you to use space Marine Captain datasheets for it

Ragnar69 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
I fear our Claws are once again sub-par. 5 WG bikers cost only 15 points more than 5 Swiftclaws, have way better shooting (bolter + twin-bolter!), are just as good in melee on the charge and better when not charging and have better option for equipment.

Blood Claws lose out to the way more flexible Grey Hunters with only 1 point difference.

Skyclaws could be a tad better than WG with jump packs as you get 25% more models for the same points.

TWC are not bad but no auto-include anymore. I can't wait to use my Wolf Lord and WG in TDA again
Though getting a Land Raider for them is still out of the question. While the models are viable now, their costs have also increased and you would have 1/3 of your army in one basket.

Can you get a Wolf Lord in TDA?
I'm pretty sure the only Vanilla Wolf Lord you can get comes standard with a Thunderwolf and only Grimnar comes with it.

Yes you can. Index tells you to use space Marine Captain datasheets for it

Ever hear the saying "I'd rather be proved wrong as a pessimist"?
Interestingly enough that is both great news and horrid news at the same time.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I am disappointed to see the Tempestas Discipline being tiny. I'm also noticing a distinct lack of Fury of the Wolf Spirits and Living Lightning.

I always liked the idea of my Rune Priests shouting at the sky and being answered by bolts of lightning from above.

Otherwise, looks decent.

Smite is living lightning.

I reeeeally don't like wulfen.
I'm not that much into TWC.

Aside from getting back "true grit" on our GH, I'm playing vanilla marines, aren't I?

Even without TWC and Wulfen we are better in melee:
2 sergeant equivalents per squad
better melee weapons (frost sword/axe, (greater) wolf claws)
chainswords on our tacticals
dreads with 3++
Stormwolf to deliver 16 frothing maniacs

But yeah, playing without barefeet (claw?) models is like playing DA Greenwing. Pretty much like Vanilla Marines.


EDIT: on the plus side, much of the Vanillas stuff I was enviuos before is not such a big deal anymore. I.e. grav is no longer superior to anything else, Ironclads T8 is not such a big advantage than AV13 was,...

Can't wait to see Murderfang in action.
Anything afflicted by the "Curse" of the Wulfen seems to be a Close Combat machine.
Cant wait to see Bran Redmaw the Curs'd Lord and the Redmaw either for that matter.

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
I fear our Claws are once again sub-par. 5 WG bikers cost only 15 points more than 5 Swiftclaws, have way better shooting (bolter + twin-bolter!), are just as good in melee on the charge and better when not charging and have better option for equipment.

Blood Claws lose out to the way more flexible Grey Hunters with only 1 point difference.

Skyclaws could be a tad better than WG with jump packs as you get 25% more models for the same points.

TWC are not bad but no auto-include anymore. I can't wait to use my Wolf Lord and WG in TDA again
Though getting a Land Raider for them is still out of the question. While the models are viable now, their costs have also increased and you would have 1/3 of your army in one basket.

Can you get a Wolf Lord in TDA?
I'm pretty sure the only Vanilla Wolf Lord you can get comes standard with a Thunderwolf and only Grimnar comes with it.

You can't take a Wolf Lord as far as I can tell without it being on the thunder wolf. However.. you can take the Wolf Guard Battle Leader in Termie armor as your HQ.

of course you can, first page of SW rules say to use the generic SM Datasheet for a Lord without Wolf

Anybody planning on using Fen Wolves in this edition?

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Anybody planning on using Fen Wolves in this edition?

Are they good? I've never had anything come of them, so the 5 I have just sit around. I use one for Bran Redmaw, because I have no idea how big he's supposed to be.

 kodos wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
I fear our Claws are once again sub-par. 5 WG bikers cost only 15 points more than 5 Swiftclaws, have way better shooting (bolter + twin-bolter!), are just as good in melee on the charge and better when not charging and have better option for equipment.

Blood Claws lose out to the way more flexible Grey Hunters with only 1 point difference.

Skyclaws could be a tad better than WG with jump packs as you get 25% more models for the same points.

TWC are not bad but no auto-include anymore. I can't wait to use my Wolf Lord and WG in TDA again
Though getting a Land Raider for them is still out of the question. While the models are viable now, their costs have also increased and you would have 1/3 of your army in one basket.

Can you get a Wolf Lord in TDA?
I'm pretty sure the only Vanilla Wolf Lord you can get comes standard with a Thunderwolf and only Grimnar comes with it.

You can't take a Wolf Lord as far as I can tell without it being on the thunder wolf. However.. you can take the Wolf Guard Battle Leader in Termie armor as your HQ.

of course you can, first page of SW rules say to use the generic SM Datasheet for a Lord without Wolf

Yeah I'm an idiot. I figured it out tonight lol.

I just talked about them on my thread...and yes

 Anpu42 wrote:
I just talked about them on my thread...and yes

This is on Fenrisian Wolves, right?

What makes them good? They look to me to be incredibly fragile and fairly unimpressive offensively.

They're also fairly expensive for a gun-fodder unit, coming in at three times more than a Conscript, who is about as resilient and only marginally less killy.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
I just talked about them on my thread...and yes

This is on Fenrisian Wolves, right?

What makes them good? They look to me to be incredibly fragile and fairly unimpressive offensively.

They're also fairly expensive for a gun-fodder unit, coming in at three times more than a Conscript, who is about as resilient and only marginally less killy.

I think the idea is that the wolves are mobile enough to keep up with your Thunderlord and Cavalry as meat shields, which the conscripts cannot.

 Anpu42 wrote:
I just talked about them on my thread...and yes

You were talking to me.
I was trying to get more opinions and ideas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Aetare wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
I just talked about them on my thread...and yes

This is on Fenrisian Wolves, right?

What makes them good? They look to me to be incredibly fragile and fairly unimpressive offensively.

They're also fairly expensive for a gun-fodder unit, coming in at three times more than a Conscript, who is about as resilient and only marginally less killy.

I think the idea is that the wolves are mobile enough to keep up with your Thunderlord and Cavalry as meat shields, which the conscripts cannot.

I think I'll be using them as locking units to prevent other units from backing out of combat.

I plan on using them as quick distractions. My sisters of battle never want to be in close combat. So I'll most likely put a little group in front of girls/vehicles that don't already have Celestine and the seraphim in front of them. They may be 9 points a wolf, but that's honestly cheaper than the other close combat options I would already be using. Plus they're faster than those options as well.

Well if your opponents shooting your wolves they arnt shooting more expensive units, if they don't you'll stop the. Stepping out of cc and shooting you.

I was thinking about putting them with my Deathwatch to be cheap wounds - Sisters might be a really cool ally for them.

It feels like a pretty good source of quick distractions for little points. Especially since I'm not going to be cheating like so many others and using my acts of faith on exorcists...

Acts of Faith?

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Acts of Faith?

It's a sisters thing. No need to worry . I mix the armies quite a lot. It's waaay easier to do now in this new addition. Everyone can benefit from a horde of conscripts now!

 mmzero252 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Acts of Faith?

It's a sisters thing. No need to worry . I mix the armies quite a lot. It's waaay easier to do now in this new addition. Everyone can benefit from a horde of conscripts now!

Better question is, can I afford to spend the time painting a horde of conscripts to be meat shields for more valuable things

 Aetare wrote:

 mmzero252 wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
Acts of Faith?

It's a sisters thing. No need to worry . I mix the armies quite a lot. It's waaay easier to do now in this new addition. Everyone can benefit from a horde of conscripts now!

Better question is, can I afford to spend the time painting a horde of conscripts to be meat shields for more valuable things

That depends. It's easier if you do them slowly over time.

I've got 80 regular guardsmen [and a bunch more with assorted special and heavy weapons] that I've been meaning to re-paint to match my tanks. Unfortunately, I just never get around to it. It was way easier painting them when I got them!

Though if you do need 50 conscripts, I'd buy ten of the $10 snap-fit sets [it's cheaper, and conscripts don't get any of the special options], and spray-paint the sprues before assembly. That doesn't take long.

Looking forwards to seeing the other Indexes, can't wait to see Orks.

Arjac gives an extra attack to each WG that is within 6" of him at the start of the Fight phase, as opposed to after Pile In. The attacks are not at the start of the phase, and he certainly doesn't get an extra attack for each WG model near him.

xmbk wrote:
Arjac gives an extra attack to each WG that is within 6" of him at the start of the Fight phase, as opposed to after Pile In. The attacks are not at the start of the phase, and he certainly doesn't get an extra attack for each WG model near him.

Still a strong ability give those wolf guard TH/SS and watch most things die with a guranteed 3 wounds per sucessful attack.

I miss Fen Wolf bodyguards.

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
I miss Fen Wolf bodyguards.

Then travel back in time 10k years.

hobojebus wrote:

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
I miss Fen Wolf bodyguards.

Then travel back in time 10k years.

Oh? It's Warhammer 41k already?

I wish you could still take wolves as character upgrades, like Blackmane can; but otherwise I'm quite happy. My 13th Company always had banners for Grey Hunter packs and I'm stoked they now do something.
Also, a little off-topic but I'm quite happy I can run multiple Astartes-keyworded units together; it makes me happy to field Deathsworn (Death Company) alongside my Heresy-themed Wolves. And to take the occassional Corvus Blackstar or Storm Raven