When we first saw the Primaris Marines I thought that for the most part they looked good. The 'assault marines' look terrible and the captain in gravis armor has a terrible pose. Besides that I was kind of interested.
But the longer I look at them the less I like them and the less I think they fit the 40k aesthetic. The names of the units are absurd! Their size is ridiculous. Their fluff is terrible. The new dreadnought looks great but is way too big. The new Reavers have cool looking helmets but look like they have chicken legs, not very intimidating. The new hover tank thing has a cool looking hull but a terrible looking arrangment of weapons. I dont think I will ever be able to warm up to them.
I've tried to like them but I just cant. Just had to get that off my chest.
I am getting them though admitadly only if priced correctly. I am passing on the librarian (purely on principle of $35 for a blister pack) and will instead be converting my own counts as from a primaris marine. I have 4 captains in gravis plus 8 LT and 4 banner ancients so plenty to work with to modify.
^^^ True.... did you not read the statement from GW describing how/when you need to return all of your existing models in order for them to be melted down and turned in Primaris marines. Ask BaconCatBug for the link. He has obviously read it.
I like the standard primaris, but i will use them for their looks, to represent big burly wolves. And thats about all, rest about primaris is really boring.
I'm frankly torn on them. On one hand, I never play in any organized fashion, so having them count as truescale marines won't conflict with others being used as actual Primaris marines (I'm thinking a powersword lieutenant, a hellblaster trooper, and three Intercessors "counting as" a Sergeant, plasma gunner and three tacticals for small skirmish games). They are very technically well done miniatures that are finally an example of well-proportioned Space Marines.
On the other hand, used that way they'd clash horribly with the dozens of normal Space Marines (three large forces!) I have collected and painted over the last 20 years.
And on top of all that, they still end up being yet more marines to paint up, which has gotten increasingly boring over the years! There's only so many times you can run a brush over the same general power armor plates before you wish for sweet release......
I am still painting mine and I quite like the minis. Intercessors might be OK as back-field units in place of small Tac squads. They lack the heavy/special weapon but their bolt guns are better and longer ranged which kinda balances out.
I like Hellblasters but I have always had an unhealthy obsession with plasma right back since 1st edition. Walk them up the field with a character who allows them to reroll 1s and you have a unit that your opponent cannot afford to ignore. Overcharge for days!
Inceptors are massively overpriced! The points cost in the mini-dex looked about right but at 225 points for a squad in II1, I will not be fielding them. You can get more wounds and dakka for the same points with attack bikes or land speeders.
I don't really like the aesthetics of the Rievers but I will wait to see rules/stats/cost before I write them off. Same for the Repulsor.
There should be another Heavy support unit with missile launchers coming out which might be interesting. Aggressors?
Not a fan. I'd rather they'd just made intercessors only, so our old-marines still had the tactical flexibility and multiple roles.
Not to mention the weapons and names are beyond awful.
Heavy bolter pistols... just what the hell are they thinking...
This is saturday-morning cartoon levels of awfulness.
And to those saying 'I don't like golf, just ignore it' - the company only has so much time and resources, so this crap comes at the expense of stuff we'd rather see.
zerosignal wrote: Not a fan. I'd rather they'd just made intercessors only, so our old-marines still had the tactical flexibility and multiple roles.
Not to mention the weapons and names are beyond awful.
Heavy bolter pistols... just what the hell are they thinking...
This is saturday-morning cartoon levels of awfulness.
And to those saying 'I don't like golf, just ignore it' - the company only has so much time and resources, so this crap comes at the expense of stuff we'd rather see.
such as? remember the stuff they'd give us instead would be Marine stuff, what space marine stuff do we need?
I'd rather see non-marine stuff for a change, obvs.
How about plastic aspect warriors, it's been what twenty years and we still don't have plastic aspects. Just abysmal.
The whole CSM line is beyond garbage and needs updating. Yes, we're getting new DG stuff, which is cool, but it seems the Primaris are getting priority. Sigh.
Hollow wrote: Just as well you don't have to buy them. Play them. Paint them. Read about them.
I really don't like Golf. So you know what? I don't think about it.
You absolutely need to read about them, and quite likely play against them.
In your golf analogy, it's as if a new club was brought out called a Sliffy, more like a lacrosse stick than a normal club, and all the major tournaments and courses immediately adopted the Sliffy as an official club. All the golf magazines have been bought out by Sliffy International, and are banging on in articles about how fantastic the Sliffy is and how all players are thrilled the Sliffy is here. You can't read a golf magazine or golf forum without seeing Sliffy discussion, and a lot of other players are adding the Sliffy to their bags even though you're frankly of the opinion a "club" that lets you lift the ball off the ground and hurl it in an overarm throw is completely against what the game stands for.
Or to drop the analogy and say it bluntly: Don't be surprised people are complaining about something they can't avoid seeing everywhere that changes something they like.
They still look like Marines in a different scale to me.
Hollow wrote: Just as well you don't have to buy them. Play them. Paint them. Read about them.
I really don't like Golf. So you know what? I don't think about it.
Your analogies get worse by the second.
A closer analogy to use would be saying "I'm not a fan of the 9 Iron", but other people are still going to be using it, just as other people are going to be using Primaris Marines. You can't just pretend they're not there. If your analogy made any damned sense, the equivalent of not thinking about gold would be the OPquitting 40K.
If people are using and enjoying Primaris Marines then I don't really see why you disliking them matters.
With that said I think its a missed opportunity.
The intercessors are good. I can understand people going "but the mini's (I bought a decade ago) won't match..." but if by 2020 a new tactical marine kit was released and it was proportioned like these with a full set of options I could understand it.
I don't mind the characters, although I can see why some might not.
Everything else though is bad. Hellblasters have a terrible name and are kind of a stupid concept. Inceptors take that a step further. Maybe its the paint job but Reivers are ugly and a giant fluff WTF. The vehicles just seem unnecessary.
Kellevil wrote: When we first saw the Primaris Marines I thought that for the most part they looked good. The 'assault marines' look terrible and the captain in gravis armor has a terrible pose. Besides that I was kind of interested.
But the longer I look at them the less I like them and the less I think they fit the 40k aesthetic. The names of the units are absurd! Their size is ridiculous. Their fluff is terrible. The new dreadnought looks great but is way too big. The new Reavers have cool looking helmets but look like they have chicken legs, not very intimidating. The new hover tank thing has a cool looking hull but a terrible looking arrangment of weapons. I dont think I will ever be able to warm up to them.
I've tried to like them but I just cant. Just had to get that off my chest.
I agree with pretty much all of your specific pros and cons, but overall, I would rate the Primaris releases we've seen so far as OK. I probably won't pick any up until I see more of the full range fleshed out. For now I'll just stick with my regular Dark Angels. The only thing I refuse to do with Primaris Marines is mix them together with my regular marines. Primaris Bros next to my Midget Bros just makes them look silly.
Hmm, wait! Maybe the Squats never went anywhere! They've been hiding in plain sight all along!
Just GW as a business reselling their most popular product to their customers.
I will buy the few I'm interested in but in no way plan to replace my army with them. And may the day come in which short marines and there weapon load outs have no rules (which I think most people agree slim to no chance of happening) will be the day I bow out of the hobby. For now I'm enjoying and playing what I have and ignoring GW business moves that don't interest me.
Some people dont like normal marines, orks, Tyranids, etc
The hate for Tau is known for everybody. Many people dont like to read about them or play against them.
Just dealt with ir. Primaris arent any different.
Well, easiest means of getting GW do stop a trend of theirs is to not buy it.
I too am suspicious of the "true-scale" marines being the eventual replacement.
Was it not enough to large-size the bases to our marines? (I do agree that proportion-wise they sit better on them though).
I think the group of them in the starter-box is just fine.
I suspect GW will not want to change any normal marine kit for quite some time (need to pay off the mold tooling some 100x first!).
So like them or not, I anticipate they will be flogging all kinds of models for these guys for the majority of marine releases.
It will be interesting to see where the focus will be next.
Possibly a new IG/AM Joe-grunt box set?
I think it is the same models since they came out of pewter.
Speaking of that, I wonder how many "active" marine character models are still in the tiny old Terminator armor?
I think a friend of mine uses his really old metal Orks as Gretchin/Goblins since the size difference is that substantial.
I guess from all those wandering asides I am making is that scale creep has been an on-going thing with GW.
It is another means of building obsolescence of old models since their greatest competition is people selling off their old collections.
zerosignal wrote: Not a fan. I'd rather they'd just made intercessors only, so our old-marines still had the tactical flexibility and multiple roles.
The old marines do still have the tactical flexibility and multiple roles. Its part of the reason the primaris aren't very good. They're all overpriced gimmick units, while traditional marines are functional workhorses.
Oddly enough, the troops choice primaris marines-- Intercessors-- are some of the troops choices point per point in the game.
You get a LOT of good stats for 100 points. 2 attacks (3 on sarge), 2 wounds, 30" AP-1 boltgun, frag/krak/pistol, all equipment is completely free... it's a solid troops choice.
in·ter·ces·sor
ˈin(t)ərˌsesər/
noun
a person who intervenes on behalf of another, especially by prayer.
"they rejected the notion that an intercessor was needed to appeal to God"
inceptor
Noun
(plural inceptors)
A beginner; one in the rudiments.
(UK) One who is on the point of taking a Master of Arts degree at an English university.
reaver
n.
Old English reafere "plundering forager,"
reave
rēv/
verbarchaic
carry out raids in order to plunder.
rob (a person or place) of something by force.
"reft of a crown, he yet may share the feast"
steal (something).
ab·surd
əbˈsərd,əbˈzərd/
adjective
wildly unreasonable, illogical, or inappropriate.
Tyel wrote: If people are using and enjoying Primaris Marines then I don't really see why you disliking them matters.
With that said I think its a missed opportunity.
The intercessors are good. I can understand people going "but the mini's (I bought a decade ago) won't match..." but if by 2020 a new tactical marine kit was released and it was proportioned like these with a full set of options I could understand it.
I don't mind the characters, although I can see why some might not.
Everything else though is bad. Hellblasters have a terrible name and are kind of a stupid concept. Inceptors take that a step further. Maybe its the paint job but Reivers are ugly and a giant fluff WTF. The vehicles just seem unnecessary.
So just like EVERY release in the last decade or more, it's all about rebuying something you already have to keep up with the new hotness. In this case, to keep scale. And they say GW hasn't changed...
Melissia wrote: Reiver, not Reaver. It refers to raiding forces.
That one isnt bad.
The only one that's bad is "Inceptor", which I get what they were going for; someone who begins, in this case, they're the squad that starts the combat by charging in guns blazing.
It's just... it's awkward and doesn't really work...
Melissia wrote: Reiver, not Reaver. It refers to raiding forces.
That one isnt bad.
The only one that's bad is "Inceptor", which I get what they were going for; someone who begins, in this case, they're the squad that starts the combat by charging in guns blazing.
It's just... it's awkward and doesn't really work...
It's not that bizarre; someone who intervenes on behalf of another. This is how tactical marines are often described; taking fire for devastators and assault marines so they can attack from positions of strength.
It also is linked to their position as scions of Guilliman and demi-gods in the Imperium. They are the physical manifestation of the Emperor's will. For a theocracy, it makes sense to give such a name to its champions.
It's easy to criticise names, but try to come up with 150+ names for various units that have a certain naming convention in common and still sound distinct. I'll give them that, GW has more talent to find names for their stuff than me. It's hard to be simple and original at the same time.
hobojebus wrote: Well I was never wowed by their fluff and rules and as times gone on I don't think I'll bother adding any to my space wolves.
Especially if they cost what I suspect they will.
What fluff? Do you mean the, oh hey we forgot we got like these billion super duper marines that are like super duper and amazing we just forgot about them til this other guy we forgot about popped up with them. You know the this thing always existed we just never talked about it til now. Even tho we told you resources where running low.
That's like the bigges, oh crap how do we end this story, I know the power was within the whole time...... Ya that's good.
Their real fluff is GW pockets where getting flat so they thought. Space marines are our best seller but are selling less, lets increase their cost and make them 1/10mm bigger. Then we can DOUBLE their price..... Makes perfect sense.
I like Mk. X guys well enough to get a few at some point. I'll have Guilliman and Centurions in my Ultramarines, so even if they turn out to look ridiculous next to normal Marines, that's not such a big deal. They won't be alone.
I don't like any other Primaris though, vehicles included.
Talizvar wrote: Speaking of that, I wonder how many "active" marine character models are still in the tiny old Terminator armor?.
None on the loyalist side that I can think of. I think Failbaddon is the last of the old terminator characters.
Melissia wrote: Reiver, not Reaver. It refers to raiding forces.
It's not like there's a difference, other than that reiver is no longer in use and GW can merrily slap a TM on it.
Just Tony wrote: You assume that the older heads won't look drastically out of place on a Primaris body.
They don't, they look just fine. I used some of mark VII helmets on mine. Though it might be a good idea to trim the collar a bit if one wants to use a beakie.
Oddly, I don't find the Primaris marines all that competitive. Only the hellblasters might see top table play, but sternguard are better, intercession don't hold a candle to tac squads, especially since Cato and a Primaris captain are the same price.
Standard marines get drop pods and rhinos (relatively cheap transport) too. Unless the new Primaris hover Bradley is very aggressively costed and can't carry non-Primaris, I'm struggling to not find standard marines better at flexiblity or Terminators a better bargain. Right now 2 wounds and 3+ just doesn't make up for the loss of heavy and special weapons. Or going the other way, 2+ teleporting, heavy weapon and PFTDAs are a better bargain at similar points (and I don't know that they've even a great deal)
IMO: all that glitters may not be gold with the new guys
The marines are meh. Their tank is fantastic. I am tempted to get one and convert it to a Deathwatch tank. Also long loooong ago in the days before Primaris were a glint in this forums rumour section. I said Deathwatch should get a cool hover tank. I was blasted off the face of the forum for "trolling" and it was incomprehensible that a space marine could have such a thing.
All I can say now is. Ha, but seriously that tank is fantastic. Giving my Tau some serious envy. I want to see a new Tau tank more than ever.
Like I've said before, I am trying really hard not to get a small squad of Primaris just to paint them and have them. They won't ever be used with actual Primaris profiles, unless it's with the One Page Rules version of them. I just want some Space Marines that have the same "oomph" on the table in skirmish games as Artemis Deathwatch figure did back in the days of Inquisitor, when because he was in scale, he was absolutely fething huge!
I can find them on Ebay for about 4 dollars apiece (characters included), or just 15 bucks for each combat squad of 5 Intercessors. I mean, that's like standard marine prices from 10 years ago.
The stupid thing is that almost all the vehicles say they cannot carry them. As a new player I have the Marines and now looking at my store and asking about the Landradier Stromraven.
You can see the sales staff face drop as they explain that "if" I buy it I wont be able to put my new Marines inside it.
Why not just come out and say here are some new marine models they are a little bigger on the table however have the same rules but are easier to assemble and paint? I don't think anyone would mind that, as it is then simply and evolution of the miniature range rather than some bogus new super marine. Then over the next 5 or so years just phase out the older Marine models and replace with the bigger ones.
I think they look good, make a nice addition to the 40k line and certainly don't invalidate the other marines. Even if GW and FW never made another standard marine again. The range is huge and very good quality, it is good for years.
Gibs55 wrote: The stupid thing is that almost all the vehicles say they cannot carry them. As a new player I have the Marines and now looking at my store and asking about the Landradier Stromraven.
You can see the sales staff face drop as they explain that "if" I buy it I wont be able to put my new Marines inside it.
Why not just come out and say here are some new marine models they are a little bigger on the table however have the same rules but are easier to assemble and paint? I don't think anyone would mind that, as it is then simply and evolution of the miniature range rather than some bogus new super marine. Then over the next 5 or so years just phase out the older Marine models and replace with the bigger ones.
Would anyone have a problem with that?
Judging by many posts here and around the internet yes. They are already freaking out that it will enventually happen over a period of years.
Gibs55 wrote: The stupid thing is that almost all the vehicles say they cannot carry them. As a new player I have the Marines and now looking at my store and asking about the Landradier Stromraven.
You can see the sales staff face drop as they explain that "if" I buy it I wont be able to put my new Marines inside it.
Why not just come out and say here are some new marine models they are a little bigger on the table however have the same rules but are easier to assemble and paint? I don't think anyone would mind that, as it is then simply and evolution of the miniature range rather than some bogus new super marine. Then over the next 5 or so years just phase out the older Marine models and replace with the bigger ones.
Would anyone have a problem with that?
I absolutley wouldn't have a problem with that. Thats what I was hoping for. And I have really tried to get on board with the new marines. But the models so far, even though they are clean and neat and pretty (with the exception of the inceptors which look ridiculous) just dont fit with the grim dark theme. And space marines are the heart of the grim dark theme. Part of the allure is the over-armored look. I really wanted to like them. But the more I look at them the more I dislike them. And I would bet that every one of their defendors so far are people who have invested in them even if it was just because of the 'new' factor.
All I can say is if you dislike them, their are plenty of other armies out there. Nothing is forcing you to try out the new hotness if the units don't appeal to you.
Galas wrote: I changed all of the guys without helmet in the starter for regular Aquila helmets.
I just don't like marines without helmets!
Yeah, same here, although I've not glued the bare heads in mine and am waiting for spare Mk X helmets. As I plan to make one squad with Mk IV helmets, backpacks and guns, I'll eventually have some.
zerosignal wrote: Not a fan. I'd rather they'd just made intercessors only, so our old-marines still had the tactical flexibility and multiple roles.
Not to mention the weapons and names are beyond awful.
Heavy bolter pistols... just what the hell are they thinking...
This is saturday-morning cartoon levels of awfulness.
And to those saying 'I don't like golf, just ignore it' - the company only has so much time and resources, so this crap comes at the expense of stuff we'd rather see.
such as? remember the stuff they'd give us instead would be Marine stuff, what space marine stuff do we need?
I mean, tbh I think they're hilariously oversaturating their marine market (how many marine players REALLY don't have enough captains with power swords and swooshy capes such that they're clamoring to spend 35$ on one? Really?) so I'd say "anything but marines" but I'd take regular marine releases over biglymarine releases any day.
Tyel wrote: If people are using and enjoying Primaris Marines then I don't really see why you disliking them matters.
With that said I think its a missed opportunity.
The intercessors are good. I can understand people going "but the mini's (I bought a decade ago) won't match..." but if by 2020 a new tactical marine kit was released and it was proportioned like these with a full set of options I could understand it.
I don't mind the characters, although I can see why some might not.
Everything else though is bad. Hellblasters have a terrible name and are kind of a stupid concept. Inceptors take that a step further. Maybe its the paint job but Reivers are ugly and a giant fluff WTF. The vehicles just seem unnecessary.
So just like EVERY release in the last decade or more, it's all about rebuying something you already have to keep up with the new hotness. In this case, to keep scale. And they say GW hasn't changed...
its quite different when the 'new hotness" is aggressively indifferent and over costed. No need to rebuy when what you have does the same job more effectively.
To keep scale doesn't make sense. There are hundreds if not thousands of sculpts at the current scale and now a literal handful at a new scale. If you want to 'keep scale' the only answer is NOT to buy them.
I purchased the Marine side of the box set and love em! For me, this is what the Marine scale should have been from the beginning, not the current Marine/Squat scale.
The Inceptor models look waaay better up close than they do in pictures. I think they are perfect for converting to a Chaplain or Captain with Jump Jets etc.
Bigger marines (which are really properly scaled, rather than oversized) really don't bother me much. It's the drastic tech advancement that makes me cringe. Marines did not need "Imperial Crisis Suits", especially, or suddenly advanced plasma technology.
I haven't bothered too much with the fluff on them yet so I have no idea on that, but I originally quite liked the idea of having a handful of these guys scattered through my regular squads (not sure if you can still do that or not), almost like Spartans scattered amongst ODST troops.
That said, I haven't picked any up yet because the more I look at the photos, the more they just kind of look like fatter versions of regular marines. Something about the armor makes me look at them like they have beer bellies. No one here has any so I haven't seen them in person. Anyone here who has seen them in person, do they look like that IRL, or is it just the photos playing tricks?
Tycho wrote: I haven't bothered too much with the fluff on them yet so I have no idea on that, but I originally quite liked the idea of having a handful of these guys scattered through my regular squads (not sure if you can still do that or not), almost like Spartans scattered amongst ODST troops.
That said, I haven't picked any up yet because the more I look at the photos, the more they just kind of look like fatter versions of regular marines. Something about the armor makes me look at them like they have beer bellies. No one here has any so I haven't seen them in person. Anyone here who has seen them in person, do they look like that IRL, or is it just the photos playing tricks?
just the photo playing tricks, the captain in Gravis armor looks a little chunky, but thats it. (the gravis armor is understandable as well because it's basicly additional plates layered atop)
After buying the Primaris half of Dark Imperium, at least to me, they are all beautifull. Even the captain and the Flying ones. Much better that regular Tactical marines.
I just don't like their size, I am not ok with models keep getting bigger, 6x4 staying the same, and having more and more models in a tighter area (it seems to me that the terrain rules were made to accomodate and I am not a fan of that either) that and there is just something "off" to me about them, I cant quite get it yet, but there is something about them i just dont like looks wise
The Primaris Marines are the reason I have aggressively bought my Battle Company of Blood Angels and the bits to finish them. I want to get every bit and model I want before they are eventually replaced. I don't see myself ever buying into the Primaris Marines models. I like them as models, I just hate the fluff.
thekingofkings wrote: I just don't like their size, I am not ok with models keep getting bigger, 6x4 staying the same, and having more and more models in a tighter area (it seems to me that the terrain rules were made to accomodate and I am not a fan of that either) that and there is just something "off" to me about them, I cant quite get it yet, but there is something about them i just dont like looks wise
I agree with all of this. Maybe if they produce a regular kit that isnt snap-fit and you can adjust the pose they will look better. I hope so because I sure cant seem to like them right now.
One of the thing I noticed in the pictures is that they all look like their heads are bent forward like they are trying to give you the angry stare down. I know someone will be along shortly to tell me it's easily fixable... just pointing out that its one of the things that look 'off' in the pictures.
The heads are compatible but the shoulder pads are not because the primaris arms are attached to the shoulderpads.
I was tempted to buy the new primaris marines but if I gotta really hack and slash to fit some crimson fist shoulder pads on then im not interested.
The jump guys I dislike the most, with the dread a close second, the rievers are right up there with my dislike. The whole line to me just looks wrong. there is nothing about the hovertank I like, I havent bothered with the fluff around them, I stick more with heresy and such. so I am not concerned there.
hobojebus wrote: Well I was never wowed by their fluff and rules and as times gone on I don't think I'll bother adding any to my space wolves.
Especially if they cost what I suspect they will.
What fluff? Do you mean the, oh hey we forgot we got like these billion super duper marines that are like super duper and amazing we just forgot about them til this other guy we forgot about popped up with them. You know the this thing always existed we just never talked about it til now. Even tho we told you resources where running low.
That's like the bigges, oh crap how do we end this story, I know the power was within the whole time...... Ya that's good.
Their real fluff is GW pockets where getting flat so they thought. Space marines are our best seller but are selling less, lets increase their cost and make them 1/10mm bigger. Then we can DOUBLE their price..... Makes perfect sense.
Well there's a little more to it than that. They're technically Heresy so the Mechanicus wouldn't have been able to tell anyone about it without claims of Heresy and having the whole army destroyed. The only one who could authorise it was the dude who asked for it to be made, Guilliman. And he had to be saved from his flash-frozen state which hasn't been a possibility until events got so dire that the Eldar had to step in and revive a Primarch.
Even after his revival and release of the Primaris, the only reason the Primaris are being accepted into Space Marine ranks is because Guilliman is saying so and because their efforts have proven invaluable against the war with Chaos, and he ranks above the High Lords, so there isn't much people can do.
It's a little cooler and more grim than people seem to give it credit for, imo. Any change can spark some controversy but I like it, personally.
It's absolutely to sell more models, though 100% more to help new people get into the hobby with a simple army to get into with awesome figures.
AegisGrimm wrote: Bigger marines (which are really properly scaled, rather than oversized) really don't bother me much. It's the drastic tech advancement that makes me cringe. Marines did not need "Imperial Crisis Suits", especially, or suddenly advanced plasma technology.
While I do agree that the whole "Technology is lost, and we don't know how any of this gak works" is kind of charming (and definitely a part of the 40k style), I think it's refreshing to see some new stuff. I mean sure, knowledge has been lost and tech priests are just basically following a cook book in order to build tanks etc, without knowing how anything really works, but then along comes Cawl with some NEW ideas for once. I actually like it, and I think it's what the Space Marine line up needs in order to stay fun.
Slightly different styles of Plasma cannons, or a new Rhino variant with slightly different armour plating (looking at you Stalker..) is only fun for so long. Give me something new and interesting to build and paint! This is why I love the Primaris.
It wouldn't be dakka if I didn't have to constantly scroll through salty thread titles looking for threads I actually want to look at.
While that is a bit of a joke statement, I also holds some truth, and can also serve, I think, as a much better analogy than the golf one.
All the salt and whining (at least whining in my eyes) is not an aspect of dakka dakka that I like. And yet it is undeniably a central part of the community. It is unavoidable, rather like the sliffy in changemod's post, or the primaris marines in 8th edition and presumably all subsequent editions.
And yet you don't find me posting threads about how terrible the salty aspect of the dakka community is, and generally I don't point it out when I see salty behaviour (or at least what I perceive to be salty behaviour), although here I'm obviously making an exception.
Equally, while I don't like it, I don't let that aspect get to me and let resentment simmer unexpressed. For the most part, I ignore it, or if I do engage with it (in the analogy that'd be playing against a primaris force) I try and understand the others' point of view, which I'm not always successful in doing.
But just because you don't like primaris, doesn't mean you have to buy it, or that it has forever made all 40k unenjoyable, as some people across some threads have suggested, although I don't think that's the case here.
Just because I don't like the salt on dakka, doesn't mean I have to participate or that it makes all dakka unenjoyable for me. I mostly stick to P&M, and when I do look a threads like these, I go in with a (fairly) open mind, rather than declaring how terrible these sorts of threads and comments are and how they ruin the whole experience.
This may sound a bit preachy along the "Hey, don't complain about the things you don't like!" vein or "Be more like me, I'm the model Dakkanaut," (which I'm not, I was temporarily banned a few years ago for throwing Rule 1 on a dumpster fire) but that's not my message. My message is tone it down a little bit and try to enjoy it, or maybe just tolerate it without it getting to you to much, even if it at first they ruin the new edition for you, or even if, like my new 'favourite' Dakkanaut, BaconCatBug, suggests, you believe that soon GW will phase out the adeptus astartes proper, which seems silly to me for a number of reasons.
Additionally, if you're wondering, I did buy Dark Imperium both so I could have fun painting something other than loyalist marines (I love the poxwalker sculpts and the plague marines are very cool), and to flesh out my Raptors who, in my headcannoon, are still trying to recover the numbers lost in the Badab wars, and it would make sense that as a depleted chapter they would be some of the first to receive and most eager to receive new priamris reinforcements.
I also intend to buy First Strike at some point, because I really want to flesh out my nurgle force, I want the reivers (which to me are very cool) and I have 2 of the free intercessors lying around so why not make another 5 man squad with the 3 they provide?
I'm working on a heretic primaris army with dark mechanicus. Because obviously cawl is dark Mech who made a deal with ruinous powers to be able to create gene seed better than the false omnissiah could, and papa smurf is a clone cawl made from the real one in stasis to take over the imperium from the inside with its most vaunted hero. I see no other valid explanation.
CREEEEEEEEED wrote: It wouldn't be dakka if I didn't have to constantly scroll through salty thread titles looking for threads I actually want to look at.
While that is a bit of a joke statement, I also holds some truth, and can also serve, I think, as a much better analogy than the golf one.
All the salt and whining (at least whining in my eyes) is not an aspect of dakka dakka that I like. And yet it is undeniably a central part of the community. It is unavoidable, rather like the sliffy in changemod's post, or the primaris marines in 8th edition and presumably all subsequent editions.
And yet you don't find me posting threads about how terrible the salty aspect of the dakka community is, and generally I don't point it out when I see salty behaviour (or at least what I perceive to be salty behaviour), although here I'm obviously making an exception.
Equally, while I don't like it, I don't let that aspect get to me and let resentment simmer unexpressed. For the most part, I ignore it, or if I do engage with it (in the analogy that'd be playing against a primaris force) I try and understand the others' point of view, which I'm not always successful in doing.
But just because you don't like primaris, doesn't mean you have to buy it, or that it has forever made all 40k unenjoyable, as some people across some threads have suggested, although I don't think that's the case here.
Just because I don't like the salt on dakka, doesn't mean I have to participate or that it makes all dakka unenjoyable for me. I mostly stick to P&M, and when I do look a threads like these, I go in with a (fairly) open mind, rather than declaring how terrible these sorts of threads and comments are and how they ruin the whole experience.
This may sound a bit preachy along the "Hey, don't complain about the things you don't like!" vein or "Be more like me, I'm the model Dakkanaut," (which I'm not, I was temporarily banned a few years ago for throwing Rule 1 on a dumpster fire) but that's not my message. My message is tone it down a little bit and try to enjoy it, or maybe just tolerate it without it getting to you to much, even if it at first they ruin the new edition for you, or even if, like my new 'favourite' Dakkanaut, BaconCatBug, suggests, you believe that soon GW will phase out the adeptus astartes proper, which seems silly to me for a number of reasons.
Additionally, if you're wondering, I did buy Dark Imperium both so I could have fun painting something other than loyalist marines (I love the poxwalker sculpts and the plague marines are very cool), and to flesh out my Raptors who, in my headcannoon, are still trying to recover the numbers lost in the Badab wars, and it would make sense that as a depleted chapter they would be some of the first to receive and most eager to receive new priamris reinforcements.
I also intend to buy First Strike at some point, because I really want to flesh out my nurgle force, I want the reivers (which to me are very cool) and I have 2 of the free intercessors lying around so why not make another 5 man squad with the 3 they provide?
And it wouldn't be so bad if all the complaining/ragequit threads weren't invalidated by the same poster 1-2 months later latching back onto the GW teat and then proclaiming the exact opposite of whatever their hate thread was about. Not me. I think 8th is shaping up to be the combination of everything I disliked about AOS AND 2nd Ed 40K, so I will not be playing it. At all. In a year or even more, that stance will not change.
Looking at the points cost of Reivers, I'm really looking forward to them. Might add them to my 1st and 10th list, as support for my scouts. Depends on their rules and stats really, ninety points for ten T4 wounds (assuming they have ten wounds) is pretty solid.
This may sound a bit preachy along the "Hey, don't complain about the things you don't like!" vein or "Be more like me, I'm the model Dakkanaut," (which I'm not, I was temporarily banned a few years ago for throwing Rule 1 on a dumpster fire) but that's not my message. My message is tone it down a little bit and try to enjoy it, or maybe just tolerate it without it getting to you to much, even if it at first they ruin the new edition for you...
Isn't that basically the same thing as saying "Hey, don't complain about the things you don't like!"?
CREEEEEEEEED wrote: ...you believe that soon GW will phase out the adeptus astartes proper, which seems silly to me for a number of reasons.
I don't see how that is silly at all. What other reason could they have for separating them entirely from the OG astartes? They aren't just new models with fluff indicating that they are brand new, bigger and better space marines, they come with rules that prohibit them from entering any current transport including land raiders. Centurions can fit into land raiders ffs. That suggests to me that they intend to make an entire line of Primaris models that will replace every function of the non-Primaris models, not because there is a good fluff reason but because new models means more £.
Hollow wrote: ^^^ True.... did you not read the statement from GW describing how/when you need to return all of your existing models in order for them to be melted down and turned in Primaris marines. Ask BaconCatBug for the link. He has obviously read it.
This may sound a bit preachy along the "Hey, don't complain about the things you don't like!" vein or "Be more like me, I'm the model Dakkanaut," (which I'm not, I was temporarily banned a few years ago for throwing Rule 1 on a dumpster fire) but that's not my message. My message is tone it down a little bit and try to enjoy it, or maybe just tolerate it without it getting to you to much, even if it at first they ruin the new edition for you...
Isn't that basically the same thing as saying "Hey, don't complain about the things you don't like!"?
CREEEEEEEEED wrote: ...you believe that soon GW will phase out the adeptus astartes proper, which seems silly to me for a number of reasons.
I don't see how that is silly at all. What other reason could they have for separating them entirely from the OG astartes? They aren't just new models with fluff indicating that they are brand new, bigger and better space marines, they come with rules that prohibit them from entering any current transport including land raiders. Centurions can fit into land raiders ffs. That suggests to me that they intend to make an entire line of Primaris models that will replace every function of the non-Primaris models, not because there is a good fluff reason but because new models means more £.
I'm not saying don't complain at all, I'm saying before you write something off completely and declare in the internet how terrible it is, give it a second chance.
And 1) Sms still make a huge chunk of GW's profit. If everyone suddenly went for primaris and abandoned normal SMs (which given threads like these we can be fairly confident won't happen), then they might have incentive to remove the line, but it's not like GW just remove things because they don't sell enough. Do you think in the board meetings they look at the least selling models and just cull them? Yes, they did it to Fantasy, but that was an entire game. The comparison to Sms in 40k being removed as the only thing? It's laughable.
2) What's more, the player backlash would be so gigantic that it could well kill the company, or at least cripple it for years to come, and they know that. To quote the faction focus from Warhammer community on the space marines, "While considered by many in the Imperium to be heroes, they are undeniably monsters to their enemies. The most popular faction in the Warhammer 40,000 universe is coming back with reinforcements, the new Primaris Space Marines." Gw have been the ones always pushing SMs as the flagship faction of the game and the setting, most of 40k revolves around them, you think they'd just throw it away because of a new line that they have already made sure can't replace astartes in the fluff because in the Dark Imperium book it says that 4% of the chapters have refused primaris reinforcements. Do you know what that means? It means "hey little timmy, your homebrew chapter never has to involve primaris, go on, keep using normal SM, we've written it in, just say you're one of those chapters." They have pre-planned for people to have chapters without any primaris, and for mixed chapters, and for fully prmaris forces. It's almost like theyhave some understanding of their customers and don't want to piss them off too much by invalidating an army that half the fanbase cares about.
3) So what they can't get in the normal vehicles? They're gonna have their own transport, great. They already have their own equipment that the normal astartes don't use, and equally, they don't use normal astartes equipment. Saying they don't use astartes vehicles = must replace astartes is as silly as saying they don't use boltguns = must replace astartes. Before you knew the specific rules, you must have seen the boltrifles, the new mark of armour, the new hellblaster guns. Did you think to yourself at that point, "Obviously meant to supersede the astartes both in the fluff and in being sold at all because they use a different set of equipment,"?
4) As it stands, the primaris are already set out not to replace every function of the normal marines, both in the fluff and on the tabletop. To quote from the Warhammer community primaris FAQ, "Marine to Marine, they certainly have some advantages over a Tactical Squad, but it comes at a cost. These guys will cost more points than standard Space Marines, so you’ll have fewer of them, and their weapon options will be different. For maximum tactical punch, you’ll want to bring all your Space Marines to the tabletop." And we've seen this already. Intercessors, while having nicer boltguns and 2 wounds, have no tactical flexibility in terms of special weapons, the special weapons role being performed by the hellblasters, who also have no flexibility, same for the inceptors, and we've only see two options for the primaris dreadnought and one for the transport. The primaris fulfil a different set of roles to the normal astartes, and while there is some overlap, GW would have to go back and change everything they have done so far regarding primaris marines to make them a suitable replacement for normal SMs in terms of function.
Hollow wrote: ^^^ True.... did you not read the statement from GW describing how/when you need to return all of your existing models in order for them to be melted down and turned in Primaris marines. Ask BaconCatBug for the link. He has obviously read it.
Is this really a thing?
It's a joke because BaconCatBug believes firmly, and I would disagree with him, that by 9th edition, whenever that may be, all Adeptus Astartes will be replaced by the Primaris Marines.
Gibs55 wrote: My biggest issue is the limited transport options.....
Why can't they go in a LR and SR again?
Why can't they use boltguns and take special and heavy weapons? Also, since primaris are imperial forces, why can't guard use rhinos? It's good enough for all the other imperial factions, minus adepus mechanicus and the primaris. Why should guard only get the chimera and taurox when they could easily use the rhino like most the others get to?
Answer : because they don't.
the most likely answer why they can't use rhinos etc is because GW wants to ensure sales of the new vehicle. particularly when chances are a LOT of people are going to be selling old rhinos and razorbacks now that the Gladius is no longer "a thing"
I definatly agree GW'll be double dipping for ages to come, GW's gone out of their WAY to ensure Primaris Marines compliment not replace standard marines. That'd NOT be the case if they wanted to replace Marines, if they did they'd deliberatly make intercessor squads a superior tac squad.
I like the Primaris Marines because they are more correctly sized for once, other Space Marines are too tiny.
I'd also like an equivalent for Chaos Marines however.
For the Hover Tank, I like the design overall but the amount of weapons is stupid, I'd probably focus them a little instead of covering it in missile boxes etc.
Melissia wrote: I like primaris more than I did when they were first announced. The fluff is stupid, but I do love the models and, inceptors aside, the rules.
and even the fluff we've not really gotten a whole lot of, Dark Imperium is about it. there are a LOT of things we still don't know. the new marine codex'll be really important IMHO on finally selling these new marines to the community. there are orginizational questions that need to be answered, as well as things like what are the 3 additional organs primaris have etc
Nah, I don't think I'll ever like their fluff. I can't separate the rather lame fluff so far from the fact that it's still just GW trying to release a marine that's marine-ier than previous marines, and even if it kinda gets better, it's not going to move in a direction I like.
GW is in business to make money, and I don't mind that because I enjoy the product they make. Part of the reason I enjoy the product is the fluff, and primaris marines are a complete gak show in the fluff department. Which is fine if I don't have to buy them, however I can't really escape them in 8th ed fluff. I don't mind facing them on the tabletop, they are a tad predictable but not overpowered. The part that grinds my gears is their constant and jarring intrusion into the fluff, did you try and read the main rulebooks fluff it was a primaris marine wankfest.
GWs intention to make primaris marines mutually exclusive with existing marines is made obvious by things like the exclusivity of their transports, sorry primaris marines won't ride in rhinos or land raiders, and normal marines can't ride in their transports because the seatbelts are different or something. There is also the fact GW has been cagey about their plans for the existing marines. It's pretty obvious they are seeing what they can get away with. I'm not in the GW is trying to squat your marines camp, but it seems their intentions are to go forward with primaris marines exclusively and let Old marines wither on the vine.
Melissia wrote: Nah, I don't think I'll ever like their fluff. I can't separate the rather lame fluff so far from the fact that it's still just GW trying to release a marine that's marine-ier than previous marines, and even if it kinda gets better, it's not going to move in a direction I like.
But I can appreciate the aesthetics.
Right, I'm talking in gernalities, the fluff right now is pretty thread bare. and the new marine codex is going to really have to sell these guys well. if tyhe new codex thoughtfully explains them, folds them into the lore in a fashion that works for most people and is even seen as kinda neat. People'll respond one way to em. on the other hand if it reads like they're written by a 9 year old who thinks Matt Ward's stuff was boring and needs to be "MORE EPIC!" well... Primaris marines are gonna be DOA for most.
I don't really have any strong feelings about the BigMarines. I neither hate them nor love them.
What I do like is despite them being new, they aren't smeared with bling the way it seemed like GWS was going with Chaos a while back. They can have a nice, clean look. I very much like the new bolt rifles - the tactical rails look great. Using the old shoulderpad size means the shoulderpads no longer look ridiculously proportioned. Do they have the same head size, too? If so, that's pretty baller. Lieutenants look great.
In the unclear camp, do Intercessors just hover over a battle shooting? Their poses are either terrible or acceptable - they look terrible if they're the new assault space marines, but if they're just 2 handed gun platforms hovering, I'm good with it.
On the downsides: I think it's pretty obvious that GWS is going to transition all new Space Marine stuff over to their new platform because they can legally defend that IP better. Screwing up the scale of the game as a reaction to Chapterhouse seems a little excessive and kind of bones people who invested in Space Marine armies in a few years. As mentioned, making them all larger also means I assume larger vehicles, which again is a problem since table size isn't bigger.
I like the idea of Aggressors but need to see the models.
My biggest beefs are small and inconsequential, of course. The Primaris Captain from the starter set is horribly posed - he looks like he has a big beer belly and you can just see him carrying a sixer of Natty Light in that powerfist. Only a problem if you get the starter set, obviously. However, the actual standalone Primaris Captain is a terrible value for his pretty high price.
I don't like the reiver's skull helmets, but only because I liked it when only Chaplains had helmets like that. It's diluting the Chaplain brand.
The Primaris Dreadnought looks like a fat marble with guns in it.
Hellblasters is a terrible name and whoever came up with it should be fired.
Grimgold wrote: GWs intention to make primaris marines mutually exclusive with existing marines is made obvious by things like the exclusivity of their transports, sorry primaris marines won't ride in rhinos or land raiders, and normal marines can't ride in their transports because the seatbelts are different or something. There is also the fact GW has been cagey about their plans for the existing marines. It's pretty obvious they are seeing what they can get away with. I'm not in the GW is trying to squat your marines camp, but it seems their intentions are to go forward with primaris marines exclusively and let Old marines wither on the vine.
By now, I think, we can be reasonably certain that the current Space Marine line will not be staying with us forever. The question will be how it's handled by GW going forward. Primaris Marines didn't get the worst possible introduction to the game, but it was far from the best. I don't think we'll be seeing the actual consequences of this until we start seeing the codexes drop. And we won't really hear from the people who are unhappy about the NuMarines until we make it to a year or so without a new release for regular Space Marines. The next 6-12 months will make or break 40k, mark my words!
Just Tony wrote:Not me. I think 8th is shaping up to be the combination of everything I disliked about AOS AND 2nd Ed 40K, so I will not be playing it. At all. In a year or even more, that stance will not change.
Dangit, we need a RemindMe bot or something like they've got on reddit so this won't be forgotten... As it is, all I can do is tell Google to remind me and save the post!
I just don't get where the idea of current marines are going away is coming from. I mean it is a possibility sure but the writing is far from on the wall. chapters are accepting them at if memory serves around the 90% integration level. this even gives room to leave regular marines in as loyalist chapters who do not accept the new larger brethren stay in business. Additionally I am sure some space marines chapters will keep both and while I could see regular astartes being a sort of in between humans and primaris with niche rolls think something like the current roll of scouts I don't see them disappearing completely ever. I think GW knows compelte phaseout would piss off so much of their fanbase that they would never completely phase them out (I can see them consolidating them though)
People were cool with truescale. However, the "fluff reasons" were handled in a very hamfisted way to avoid invalidating old armies...nevermind that this isn't the first time there was such a range of "new models".
I'm more or less indifferent. I saw potential in the Garvis Captain and bought half a dozen of him off ebay. (4 bucks a pop and they still try to sell the new one for 35...) I've ditched the arms and re-positioned all the legs. They're going to be counting as a biker techmarine squad for my all-terminator army. Other than that I just don't care. The models are meh and the rules are meh-er. Weather or not GW stops releasing kits is irrelevant to an army's staying power. When was the last time sisters got a non- Celestine release?
KingCorpus wrote: Primaris marines in general are a joke. The game did not need them, nor did anyone even want them.
I wont be buying any of them, and will only play against them if I absolutely have to (Tournie setting)
I have never been tested this hard to NOT be salty.
Emperor preserve me.
So I'm curious, what army do you play?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MattKing wrote: I'm more or less indifferent. I saw potential in the Garvis Captain and bought half a dozen of him off ebay. (4 bucks a pop and they still try to sell the new one for 35...) I've ditched the arms and re-positioned all the legs. They're going to be counting as a biker techmarine squad for my all-terminator army. Other than that I just don't care. The models are meh and the rules are meh-er. Weather or not GW stops releasing kits is irrelevant to an army's staying power. When was the last time sisters got a non- Celestine release?
in fairness, the rules are "eh" because GW took the time to balance them. it's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. if intercessors where amazing and better then taticals in every way we'd have been complaining about tat, saying GW is "making the rules so good to force us to buy the new marines"
Talizvar wrote: Well, easiest means of getting GW do stop a trend of theirs is to not buy it.
I too am suspicious of the "true-scale" marines being the eventual replacement.
Was it not enough to large-size the bases to our marines? (I do agree that proportion-wise they sit better on them though).
I think the group of them in the starter-box is just fine.
I suspect GW will not want to change any normal marine kit for quite some time (need to pay off the mold tooling some 100x first!).
So like them or not, I anticipate they will be flogging all kinds of models for these guys for the majority of marine releases.
It will be interesting to see where the focus will be next.
Possibly a new IG/AM Joe-grunt box set?
I think it is the same models since they came out of pewter.
Speaking of that, I wonder how many "active" marine character models are still in the tiny old Terminator armor?
I think a friend of mine uses his really old metal Orks as Gretchin/Goblins since the size difference is that substantial.
I guess from all those wandering asides I am making is that scale creep has been an on-going thing with GW.
It is another means of building obsolescence of old models since their greatest competition is people selling off their old collections.
Nothing to be suspicious about. They are most certainly going to end phasing out the old marines. It's just going to be over a long period (like 8-10 years).
Nothing to be suspicious about. They are most certainly going to end phasing out the old marines. It's just going to be over a long period (like 8-10 years).
They want us to buy a whole new army. You'll be able to use the old marines, but the primaris marines will be the standard going forwards.
They can now introduce a whole new range of minis.
KingCorpus wrote: Primaris marines in general are a joke. The game did not need them, nor did anyone even want them.
I wont be buying any of them, and will only play against them if I absolutely have to (Tournie setting)
I have never been tested this hard to NOT be salty.
Emperor preserve me.
So I'm curious, what army do you play?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MattKing wrote: I'm more or less indifferent. I saw potential in the Garvis Captain and bought half a dozen of him off ebay. (4 bucks a pop and they still try to sell the new one for 35...) I've ditched the arms and re-positioned all the legs. They're going to be counting as a biker techmarine squad for my all-terminator army. Other than that I just don't care. The models are meh and the rules are meh-er. Weather or not GW stops releasing kits is irrelevant to an army's staying power. When was the last time sisters got a non- Celestine release?
in fairness, the rules are "eh" because GW took the time to balance them. it's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. if intercessors where amazing and better then taticals in every way we'd have been complaining about tat, saying GW is "making the rules so good to force us to buy the new marines"
I believe that there is something right about this.
GW wants primos to have a non redundant role and found some decent ones.
But they would have been better off giving all the weenies two wounds except maybe scouts.
And just introduced primos this way as a generic model upgrade with helmets that swap.
As it is they invited any religious imperial players to tag them as heresy and ignore them from the start.
My beef frankly. Plus being beakless.
Personally hate the lore, all of them aside from the incersorators or what ever they are called, standard bolt gun guys, look horrible, The rest look aweful or out of place or in horrible poses. I feel like nu-marines suffer the same problem the new AoS dwarfs do, they are just way to over designed.
Walk them up the field with a character who allows them to reroll 1s and you have a unit that your opponent cannot afford to ignore. Overcharge for days!
