Canoness Veridyan, a model that came out not very long ago, doesn't have rules in the Imperium Index.
Belisarius Cawl, once part of the Triumvirate of the Imperium, is being sold separately. This puts Celestine and Greyfax in a weird position.
Back in October of last year, Lady Atia made mention of a particular wishlist:
All of that about things not being possible in plastic that now are? That's been a common excuse for why we don't have a plastic Sisters of Battle range.
And despite everything, they're still being sold on the GW site, with an ever-shrinking range. Models have disappeared from the store entirely, while steadily more and more are being listed as 'Temporarly Out of Stock', and yet they at least bothered to put together squads of models as best they could...
We're now knee deep in 8th edition with only two more possible Codices between now and 2018 that we don't know about. Death Guard are going to wrap up between now and the beginning of October with Firestorm releasing alongside them, followed by Shadespire, and then we've got Necromunda in November, with 40k Battleforces releasing in December.
Guys. I think it's happening. The Warhammer Rumor Engine is pointing towards Orks and Skaven in early 2018, but after that...
---
And after all that is said and done, WE HAVE A NEW SISTERS RUMOR!!
Lord Fangio •
Considering that a staffer at GW yesterday absentmindedly told me that his first army of 2018 would be sisters because he will finally not have to deal with metal. Then tried to backtrack after being given the evils by the manager, I have my suspicions as to why the Kickstarter got canned.
Lord Fangio jexinator •
I have been waiting excitedly for plastic sisters since 2003. Sadly I have suffered so many dissapointments during this wait that even this I take with a handful of salt.
Though that said, the manager in the above story then started to explain how the plastic Sisters of Silence had been made to prove to the investors that there was a market for female miniatures outside of FW. And they have sold very well. Then we also have the recent investor report about wanting to make more female figurines.
Also, early this year I was talking to a GW manager in one of the London stores and he told me with great confidence that he expected Sisters to be the 11/12th codex. At the time the 10 codices before Xmas hadn't been announced, so I just assumed he meant it would be next Summer or Autumn (which was cool enough).
Again, I refuse to get excited in case GWHQ has been feeding misinformation down the lines."
----
Update: 10/5
We've got ANOTHER rumor at Sisters of Battle being released soon!!!
Hey Valrak. First off, great videos man!
Just watched your sisters video and I have some info you might be interested in about them. Comes from a GW employee and then a GW store owner:
We were supposed to get them before 8th became a thing. But with the whole shipping debacle they've been going through. The sisters got tied up. So they decided to hold off, wait for 8th to drop and just release them in full. Which is why we got some weird releases before the dropping of 8th. They used their "filler" releases.
There it is. Take from it what you will. Have a good one man.
Well next year has been claimed to be the year of the xenos by rumor folk.
We know
- Tau is coming for sure with some sort of update. I've elaborated this a million time so go read other threads. This is nearly 99% likely going to happen given Atia's track record.
- There is heavy implication and foreshadowing of a new xenos race. Kind of a big reveal faction of the year much like Primaris were for this year.
- Reliable rumor people (but not lady atia level of reliable) have said that at least some of the less popular xenos races will be getting updates next year.
Also since Space Marines have an obligatory release every year I think next year is the perfect time to release a Primaris Deathwatch update which thematically fits with the year of the xenos as they are dedicated to it.
This leaves the year very packed for SoB. I would really find it unlikely if they came out. It's not impossible, but very low chance to me.
Also that same year Atia said if the Exodites come out it would be at least two years away. However she didn't seem very confident on them coming out as it was a "someday" army GW might get around too.
Crimson Devil wrote: Does it matter? You guys will probably hate the models and fluff anyway.
Hah, this. SoB fans have been staring at the old models for so long, would it matter what GW puts out? I can dream, though. I can dream.
As to the whole 'year of xenos', I bet it'll be a lot smaller than people are thinking. I imagine it'll EITHER be a new race OR an addition to the Tau Empire, not both.
Deathwatch Primaris? That seems kind of out there when they can just tack on Intercessors and Hellblasters into Deathwatch. The shoulder pads are the same as the Tacticals, so would work with the same Deathwatch Upgrade Kit. Either way, I see this as being small as well.
The things that I see being big will be Orks. There's a lot of models in the Ork line that can be updated afaik and there's always something new they can tack onto that range.
But of course, they won't leave the Imperium in the dust. I imagine Dark Angels, Space Wolves, or Blood Angels will get their release in the next year.
Does that leave a lot of time for Sisters of Battle? Maybe, maybe not. Honestly at the pace that GW has been putting things out, just maybe...
I can't find the thread anymore, but there was some discussion recently that GW internally wants to "broaden" its audience to try to attract more female gamers. I feel that updating SoB would be the most plausible place to start if its true.
Commissar Benny wrote: I can't find the thread anymore, but there was some discussion recently that GW internally wants to "broaden" its audience to try to attract more female gamers. I feel that updating SoB would be the most plausible place to start if its true.
Larger demographic means more money, and having female models that aren't scantily clad might go a long way to getting that new demographic. This is something that pops up a lot when Sisters of Battle are mentioned, though, so I bet it's just rumor reverb more than anything else.
Crimson Devil wrote: Does it matter? You guys will probably hate the models and fluff anyway.
Hah, this. SoB fans have been staring at the old models for so long, would it matter what GW puts out? I can dream, though. I can dream.
As to the whole 'year of xenos', I bet it'll be a lot smaller than people are thinking. I imagine it'll EITHER be a new race OR an addition to the Tau Empire, not both.
Deathwatch Primaris? That seems kind of out there when they can just tack on Intercessors and Hellblasters into Deathwatch. The shoulder pads are the same as the Tacticals, so would work with the same Deathwatch Upgrade Kit. Either way, I see this as being small as well.
The things that I see being big will be Orks. There's a lot of models in the Ork line that can be updated afaik and there's always something new they can tack onto that range.
But of course, they won't leave the Imperium in the dust. I imagine Dark Angels, Space Wolves, or Blood Angels will get their release in the next year.
Does that leave a lot of time for Sisters of Battle? Maybe, maybe not. Honestly at the pace that GW has been putting things out, just maybe...
Wrong. Deathwatch need a flyer and the current Primaris can not fit in it. Actually they can't use any of the existing line. Sure they could just add the existing primaris stuff into the DW line and I would be happy with that too, but at the same time it's not very DW and the Corvus sold well because it's a beauty. I'm sure they can think of something. If they get any new Primaris stuff for DW it will not be a big release no doubt.
Also I want a DW apothecary and techmarine if possible so I can actually have a full rpg squad.
I personally think these will get individual codex's inregards to the Imperium (not in any order):
Dark Angels
Blood Angels
Space Wolves
Deathwatch
Adepta Ministorum (SoB etc what is in index/store now under that name)
Imperial Agents ( Inquisition, Assassins, Adpetus Custodes, SoS, Legion of the Damned)
We will probably get one maybe two of these this year in regards to the two last codex's (even if rumors says next year is the year of the xenos, these still have to be done. The xenos aspect probably means one xenos faction will have new models or maybe a new race).
As an avid SoB player I don't see them making plastic models for them (however, will get rules for Veridyan and maybe one more generic HQ choice apart from the Canoness). Maybe they will get a flyer that can use similar parts to the current Immolator (eg the gunner sister), but I doubt it. I personally don't mind, I have a massive sisters army (and if they do release new plastic infantry prob won't fit in with the awesome metal we have now).
The reason I don't think will make plastic SoB is design and production costs + risk on an army that if really did sell well, they would have made them plastic ages ago. They might take a risk like they did with GSC, but why would they with the new addition/managing new models for Nurgle and the new Primaris. It would probably be to much of a financial risk (dependent on sales of Primaris and Nurgle). Next year they would have to come up with something new to sell and maybe it would be SoB but I would see them re-doing Eldar etc over SoBtbh (with alot more Eldar female models etc).
For Deathwatch (my other big army atm). I don't see them doing to much with them in regards to Primaris. DW are meant to be very elite (points wise not slots. Struggle for being so expensive if solo atm). Why would they produce a range of models that cost even more points for an army that is already points starved? For them all I see is points tweaks, add in current Primaris and some rules adjustments.
I could be wrong on all which is ok. If we get new models for either of these factions it will make some people happy which is awesome and diversity is always fun to see, utilise and play against. However, just with some tweaks these two armies are great as is.
I'm more concerned with having good rules than new models.
We've had poor rules support for a very long time. In addition, the current and recent balance of our rules has encouraged our use as a token allied force with no more than a handful of units attached to a larger, different force, which is, in my opinion, problematic.
In addition, plastic models wouldn't really be for us. I've said this before, but GW know that current Sisters of Battle players are 1: content to buy metal models at $10 a model, and 2: already have a fair amount of what we need to play games. The edition has changed the latter somewhat, but the first point stands and the second will re-establish itself quickly, so a move to plastic would be geared towards attracting new players, a policy which, coincidentally, complements the structuring of the army as an allied detachment.
I would not be opposed to bringing new players to the army, if the intent was for them to play the army as a full sized and independent force. However, I'd rather be an eclectic and sporadically supported army than a designated allied detachment, as the former policy just leads to us being slowly eclipsed by power creed while the latter leads to rules that are incredibly one-dimensional and actively detrimental to us.
In addition, I honestly like the metal figures. If I objected to them, I wouldn't be playing this army. Celestine and her Geminae do look very nice though, and their design is faithful to the metal figures, so I'm not particularly concerned about the actual appearance of potential plastic models; I'm sure they'd be nice.
Also, I don't think plastic models are coming soon. As long as our stuff is "temporarily out of stock", it means they've got another production run lined up, which means they intend to sell another production run's worth of models before producing plastic anything. In addition, our stuff goes "temporarily out of stock" all the time; I'm no stranger to having to wait a month or two to buy what I actually want to buy; so it's not abnormal. If anything, it's indicative that things will proceed as they have been for the foreseeable future.
In regards to your token allied force comment: Obviously SoB used in conjunction with other forces is phenomenal (Celestine and or Dominions/repressors etc, (used as a separate detachment for those who have codex's released) with pretty much any Imperium army makes it better), which could/they prob are using to boost sales. However, this edition they are viable solo (against some armies is a hard ask but they are good). When they get a book and add in Warlord traits/strats/ the mandatory 1 more generic HQ, fix some units like repentia etc they should be up there.
To the OP The consolidation of SoB models in the GW online store (the change came out a few months before 8th dropped) I think is more of a sign that:
"They don't sell awesomely, so lets give them o.k rules in 8th and consolidate it so individual sales are larger" more than "lets limit the line to make way for plastic" .
And ye SoB stock is always going "temp out of stock", It has been for years (because they don't stock a lot in some countries because doesn't sell great). Many times I do an order and click back in and is "temp out of stock, email etc" right away because they only had a small amount in country.
Seriously. How hard would it be for geedub to make a start collecting kit for sisters.
An immolator.
A cannoness.
10 girls bss as per website
5 girl dom squad w/mixed specials
Done.
Would sell like sister Arinya's hot cakes. Id take 3 of em. Dont even have to be plastic but it wouldnt be hard to make this in plastic. Hell its already majority of the range.
Giantwalkingchair wrote: Seriously. How hard would it be for geedub to make a start collecting kit for sisters.
An immolator.
A cannoness.
10 girls bss as per website
5 girl dom squad w/mixed specials
Done.
Would sell like sister Arinya's hot cakes. Id take 3 of em. Dont even have to be plastic but it wouldnt be hard to make this in plastic. Hell its already majority of the range.
Approx $323 AU atm right there? Even if half price, idk if right money for a starter set...
Ye has always been sisters problem (from a player pov, eg to expensive, not enough players to justify plastic) from GW pov never enough sales, to expensive to change molds/time to plastic.
With metal 'a start collecting box' of sisters will never work (to expensive)
Is a redundant chant that has happened again and again.
I have a large 30k Thousand Sons army and am not planning on collecting any other army after.
I don't care as much about Sisters of Battle, but if GW were to release a whole new line of plastic models for them, I'd buy them in a heartbeat just to make sure they stay printed.
I really think GW would be surprised at the success of Sisters if they released plastics for them so that they were a reasonably affordable and accessible army.
Especially in 8th where Imperial soup is extremely common.
After talking with a lot of other people, I've learned that it's the Painting side of the community that actually makes more for GW than the gaming side.
Gamers will buy cheap armies off of Ebay or will fill out their army with recasts from china while Painters want the best quality they can get and don't mind buying from GW direct.
When it comes to updating old models, GW is happy to do it to give those painters a new challenge, hence the update to things like Plague Marines and Thousand Sons, things that we were begging to get updated for years.
Also, this whole idea of a 'financial risk' is bupkis. Dark Eldar were an even bigger financial risk, but it paid off big time. They sold hugely well, especially with those painters, because it was something that GW had never put out before.
They can do that again with Sisters of Battle, just like they did with Genestealers, and they know it.
To be honest, I think it really comes down to the higher ups in GW thinking that they won't be popular enough, holding onto old ideas and old sales figures, but how can they determine that sort of thing?
I think that releasing the updated Celestine and giving her such potent rules was a test, but their mistake was boxing her with Cawl. They wouldn't be able to get a good idea of numbers of people interested in Sisters if those numbers may also just be people interested in AdMech, a recently updated line of models.
Finally, as to what armies need what, Deathwatch don't 'need' a flier, just like AdMech didn't 'need' a transport. I don't recommend looking to fill out force org slots as a good way of seeing what GW will 'definitely' add. After the AdMech update, it's pretty clear that the force org slot is not a law of updates.
Automatically Appended Next Post: UPDATE!
GW just posted how to paint a Sisters of Battle on Warhammer TV! They're responding to comments such as "We haven't forgotten about any faction and will get around to all of them in due time!"
I hope they do add in some more SoB elements (I don't really care about money, If I want something I buy it...big deal). However, GW is a business and the bottom line is their prerogative. The risks they take also is dependent on research, for example if since *their re-released they had alot of Sob sales they may take that in production... However, Deathguard etc was probably in production 6 months before was released... (need time for rules, crafters etc) so was planned and they are waiting to see results, same as Primarius.
If you think a multi-million dollar company releases things based on one thing: either rules (which they adjust to the market) or painting or style you are crazy... It is off a multitude of facets.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote: I've said this before, but GW know that current Sisters of Battle players are 1: content to buy metal models at $10 a model, and 2: already have a fair amount of what we need to play games. The edition has changed the latter somewhat, but the first point stands and the second will re-establish itself quickly, so a move to plastic would be geared towards attracting new players, a policy which, coincidentally, complements the structuring of the army as an allied detachment.
Even die-hard sisters players must be getting tired of the old metal models after so many years.
Even die-hard sisters players must be getting tired of the old metal models after so many years.
The models hold up after so many years (some 96, 03 etc). I think they still look great as a cohesive force.
EDIT: Why am I getting tiered of something that looks good and looks better than most current models? AKA deathguard (I hate the look period.. why do i want to look at a plague... and primarias why do I want marines when I have a few hundred of and the new ones only bigger...)
I agree, a lot of the Sisters range is awesome. If they just commited to rereleasing all that stuff at a reasonable price point with some rules updates, I think you'd see some happy customers.
Not as many happy customers as a full update, but some of those models still look fantastic.
Gamgee wrote: Also that same year Atia said if the Exodites come out it would be at least two years away. However she didn't seem very confident on them coming out as it was a "someday" army GW might get around too.
Well, so were Mechanicus and Genestealer Cults for a long time. And GW seem determined to mine every obscure corner of 40K apocrypha before they release Sisters, so I think they'll be an army right after the Demiurg and Rak'Gol.
I think we'll get the new mysterious chaos Eldar or whatever was teased in the new core book first before exodites. I think we'll see every possible release in the next 100 years be anything but Sisters of Battle. SoB being redone is the apocalypse.
The models hold up after so many years (some 96, 03 etc). I think they still look great as a cohesive force.
And yet, people still ask "When are we getting SoB updates/plastics?"
I'd bet many of the current sisters players would update if the new ones were good enough. Just being able to pose miniatures goes a long way to making a force look interesting. Choice of headgear (page cut, wimple, filter mask or helmet). Accessories, running/crouching legs, etcetera.
The models hold up after so many years (some 96, 03 etc). I think they still look great as a cohesive force.
And yet, people still ask "When are we getting SoB updates/plastics?"
I'd bet many of the current sisters players would update if the new ones were good enough. Just being able to pose miniatures goes a long way to making a force look interesting. Choice of headgear (page cut, wimple, filter mask or helmet). Accessories, running/crouching legs, etcetera.
Plus you can add people like me who simply don't like metal models. I got seventy or eighty models in my Sisters army, so plenty to make an army list or two, but I'd replace them in a heartbeat if we got plastics.
Given current trends I'd expect such hypothetical plastic sisters to be monopose, or at least 'majority' monopose like the way the skitari kits require specific torsos with specific pairs of legs.
As for quality, I'd agree that the metals have a certain level of detail you don't really see in multipose plastic kits (the sister superior with one arm outstretched and the other clutching her rosette and holding it to her chest is a good example, she even has a sheathed sword on her hip partially obscured by the sleeves of her robe) but frankly the amount of work to clean them up and the ease at which metals shrug off paint jobs means the only reason I wouldn't make the switch is if the results looked extremely sketchy.
GW just posted how to paint a Sisters of Battle on Warhammer TV! They're responding to comments such as "We haven't forgotten about any faction and will get around to all of them in due time!"
For me its not so much wanting plastic sisters as it is just wanting to buy more, but unwilling to pay the exhorbitant prices that geedub currently demands for them. The assumption is that plastic will mean a significant price drop for the consumer.
GW just posted how to paint a Sisters of Battle on Warhammer TV! They're responding to comments such as "We haven't forgotten about any faction and will get around to all of them in due time!"
I can't find it, but some guys in 4chan draw her without the armour and superimposed both images, saying that unlike Sister of SIlence and their wasp waist, Celestine and their Geminae where very muscular/fat, because their waist was much broader.
It was pretty hilarous, when people said that it was BS to do that kind of thing only with a female model they called people on Dakkadakka white knights and SJW, saying that they where just discussing the change of aesthetics of GW direction with female models! Probably in the news and rumours thread about Gathering Storm I one could find it.
Galas wrote: I can't find it, but some guys in 4chan draw her without the armour and superimposed both images, saying that unlike Sister of SIlence and their wasp waist, Celestine and their Geminae where very muscular/fat, because their waist was much broader.
Well, Sisters of Battle should definitely be muscular given how much time they spend training, which is basically all their time.
I can't see a problem with this .
Celestine is just the same as Sisters have always been though. The Sisters' bigger models are the 3rd edition Canoness (2nd edition Canoness was also more imposing than a regular Sister but didn't have the same girth imho) and the Mistress of Redemption.
Galas wrote: It was pretty hilarous, when people said that it was BS to do that kind of thing only with a female model they called people on Dakkadakka white knights and SJW, saying that they where just discussing the change of aesthetics of GW direction with female models!
I can't speak for everyone on Dakka but I'm not a white knight, I'm a pink rogue!
curran12 wrote: Yep, SoB codex and models are just around the corner.
Like they have been for the past decade.
I'll believe this only when I am holding a codex in my hands.
We get a codex all the time, I want plastic dammit.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Giantwalkingchair wrote: For me its not so much wanting plastic sisters as it is just wanting to buy more, but unwilling to pay the exhorbitant prices that geedub currently demands for them. The assumption is that plastic will mean a significant price drop for the consumer.
That hasn't been true for over a year now.
The price points for models and what you get in the kit are fantastic at the moment.
The blight war box was TWO get started boxes, which already are cheaper then individual unit boxes, had TWO free character models as well.
There are even comments in here about trying to pull the price of plastic kits down, though it will probably not happen any time soon.
But, knowing a thing or two about business, I can tell you that if they expand their manufacturing capabilities, it'll make things cheaper overall to produce after they pay off the initial setback of the new mold casting machines. That'll be made easier since they have a surplus of cash, so much so that they gave out extra dividends to their shareholders. All this points to good things over the next couple years.
Galas wrote: It was pretty hilarous, when people said that it was BS to do that kind of thing only with a female model they called people on Dakkadakka white knights and SJW
Personally, I prefer wizard over knight or warrior anyway.
I haven't really been paying much attention to 40k lately, last semester of classes is taking up most of my time that's nto spent with friends. I doubt they'll release plastic SoBs soon but it would sorely tempt me to break some money out of my diminished savings....
Giantwalkingchair wrote: For me its not so much wanting plastic sisters as it is just wanting to buy more, but unwilling to pay the exhorbitant prices that geedub currently demands for them. The assumption is that plastic will mean a significant price drop for the consumer.
That hasn't been true for over a year now.
The price points for models and what you get in the kit are fantastic at the moment.
The blight war box was TWO get started boxes, which already are cheaper then individual unit boxes, had TWO free character models as well.
Im not talking about the plastics that are already out. Im talking about the current prices of metal sisters. The rediculous pricing there where for the price of a single bss squad you can purchase a get started kit and start collecting another army.
The assumption for the coming of plastic sisters is that it will mean theyd come at plastic prices on par with marines and whatnot (around the $60-70au) as opposed to the $120au it is now. Though i wouldnt put it past gw to release plastic sisters at metal sisters prices.
I'm pretty sure that whatever GW is gonna do with the Sororitas they are proceeding carefully.
I just hope that when they finally do make them, that they retain a similar astecic, while updating the sculpts, and matching the excellent job on Celestine & the twins.
I am not a Sisters player but I would fosho start if they do.
Racerguy180 wrote: I'm pretty sure that whatever GW is gonna do with the Sororitas they are proceeding carefully.
I just hope that when they finally do make them, that they retain a similar astecic, while updating the sculpts, and matching the excellent job on Celestine & the twins.
I am not a Sisters player but I would fosho start if they do.
I feel you here. But, y'know, they managed to keep the aesthetics of armies like the Necron into new models.
It's a conundrum, because you want to be able to retain the units that exist while updating as much as possible. With a line as old as Sisters of Battle, however, that means updating everything that is in the current Codex while also adding some new things.
What I think the Sisters suffer from right now is an overload of same-y units. Retributors, Dominions, Battle Sisters, all of them are effectively the same model and unit with one or two special rules and different weapon load-outs. It's very Space Marine. I could see them easily making one box kit of Battle Sisters that has a few special weapons that could then make any of those units. Then you have a box for Seraphim, a box for Repentia, and an update to the Immolator. 4 kits could make most of the Sisters of Battle line right there.
My hope is that they'll do something like they did with AdMech, making units that have a lot of different options in one box, or boxes that can make multiple kits, like the Kataphron, Skitarii Rangers/Vanguard, Fulgurite/Corpuscari, and Infiltrators/Ruststalkers. I could see them pulling this with updated Penitent Engines, the Seraphim, and maybe even the Repentia, adding on something new that each of those boxes would make. That's the hope, anyway, but with Death Guard we ended up with a ton of one-off mono-pose characters and other units. They could have made the Blightlord and Deathshroud one box, but they made them different enough to warrant their own boxes, even though there aren't many customization options between those two totally separate boxes. It's strange, really.
I'm really hoping that they expand upon Battle Sisters instead of lumping the Sororitas in with the 'Ministorum' and add a bunch of priests and other non-Sororitas things. It'll make the 'Order' rules very clunky when half your Codex isn't technically Sororitas.
They could do what they did with the Mk3 and Mk4, Tartaros and Cataphractii units, make a stand alone board based game that has a couple of squads of Soriatas plastics, along with (as with the other models) a selection of wargear, including pistols and jump packs so as to make Seraphim. If they can get everything onto two or three frames, that would work out pretty well.
Amishprn86 wrote: Im just going to be sad i will have to pay like 400$ to replace just 60 metal BSS's......
60 metal BSS? Currently that's 480 bucks. If they're converted to plastic and are 60 bucks a squad, it'll be 360. Savings of 120 dollars. I'll take that.
Also, nobody is saying you have to replace your metal models. In typical GW fashion, you'll be able to use them just fine.
Amishprn86 wrote: Im just going to be sad i will have to pay like 400$ to replace just 60 metal BSS's......
60 metal BSS? Currently that's 480 bucks. If they're converted to plastic and are 60 bucks a squad, it'll be 360. Savings of 120 dollars. I'll take that.
Also, nobody is saying you have to replace your metal models. In typical GW fashion, you'll be able to use them just fine.
I know i dont have to...... but come on, its plastic sob why wouldnt you
PS thats not counting the 40+ other special/heavy weapons, superiors, seraphim's, P-engine, repentia's, imagifiers, Canoness's etc.. etc...
The plastic kits, if recent kits are going to be anything to go by, will have a lot more to them than our current kits, to begin with. Probably will have a choice of heavy and special weapons in our standard infantry box, for example, not just one single unposable model dictated to you by the sales department.
Melissia wrote: The plastic kits, if recent kits are going to be anything to go by, will have a lot more to them than our current kits, to begin with. Probably will have a choice of heavy and special weapons in our standard infantry box, for example, not just one single unposable model dictated to you by the sales department.
I assumed it be like a 10man Tac squad type of box. 1 Superior, 1 of each special weapon and 1 of each 2 heavy weapons.
Galas wrote: I can't find it, but some guys in 4chan draw her without the armour and superimposed both images, saying that unlike Sister of SIlence and their wasp waist, Celestine and their Geminae where very muscular/fat, because their waist was much broader.
It was pretty hilarous, when people said that it was BS to do that kind of thing only with a female model they called people on Dakkadakka white knights and SJW, saying that they where just discussing the change of aesthetics of GW direction with female models! Probably in the news and rumours thread about Gathering Storm I one could find it.
They actually look like women wearing armour as opposed to a lot of other armoured female miniatures where the external silhouette of the armour is that of a naked woman. (so presumably they are emaciated inside there)
My hope is that we have plenty of helmeted options for the squads. I understand a big appeal of the Sisters is their female heads, but I really like the Sabbat pattern helmets.
drbored wrote: My hope is that we have plenty of helmeted options for the squads. I understand a big appeal of the Sisters is their female heads, but I really like the Sabbat pattern helmets.
And I hope that we have the option to have no helmets.
I don't like face-covering helmets or gas masks in general, and wish in general that kits came with more unique helmetless head options.
While I can't deny that the Sabbat helm looks better than the scowly Space Marine helm, it still obscures the face.
drbored wrote: My hope is that we have plenty of helmeted options for the squads. I understand a big appeal of the Sisters is their female heads, but I really like the Sabbat pattern helmets.
Yes, please. Sisters of Battle helmets are one of the cooler helmets in all of 40k. I have been looking in Ebay for three to put into my Saint Celestine and her geminaes, but I haven't found a pack of three or at least 1 with a reasonable price... I hope they go the primaris route. Options to have a full bare-head squad or a full helmeted squad like Reavers.
Just look at the Intercessor multipart box
There are a total of 36 different heads available in this kit, covering helmeted and bare options.
Imaginate all those heads in a Sisters of Battle box of 10 basic infantry
We are currently engaged in some intense chicken-counting here, people.
But...
drbored wrote:I'm really hoping that they expand upon Battle Sisters instead of lumping the Sororitas in with the 'Ministorum' and add a bunch of priests and other non-Sororitas things. It'll make the 'Order' rules very clunky when half your Codex isn't technically Sororitas.
Since the Ecclesiarchy is still technically forbidden to have 'men under arms' I think the risk of that is relatively low. If anything it might allow for a 'concerned citizens' unit that might serve as cheap, cultist-style infantry and give you an angle to include redemptionists from the new necromunda in a regular 40k army. Beyond that, I think their relationship is such that a proper codex would require the option to take Ministorum units.
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
drbored wrote: My hope is that we have plenty of helmeted options for the squads. I understand a big appeal of the Sisters is their female heads, but I really like the Sabbat pattern helmets.
And I hope that we have the option to have no helmets.
My understanding of the old fluff was that a battle sister had to earn the helmet, though. Of course it was an excuse for the limitations of the model range but I kind of like the idea that you could use that to mark your sister superiors, celestians, and other head honchos.
drbored wrote: My hope is that we have plenty of helmeted options for the squads. I understand a big appeal of the Sisters is their female heads, but I really like the Sabbat pattern helmets.
The sabbat helm is also one of the big appeal of the Sisters though .
Captain Joystick wrote: We are currently engaged in some intense chicken-counting here, people.
Well, more like wishlisting. I already said earlier I wasn't expecting anything anytime soon, at the very least. And, as I said, I'm fine with the metal models. I like them.
Captain Joystick wrote: We are currently engaged in some intense chicken-counting here, people.
Well, more like wishlisting. I already said earlier I wasn't expecting anything anytime soon, at the very least. And, as I said, I'm fine with the metal models. I like them.
Yeah, thankfully this is in General, not Rumors, so we can wishlist all we want anyway.
I'm really convinced that we're going to see Sisters of Battle either by the end of 2018 or by early 2019, and no later.
I don't think GW's plan for more female players is going to be updated Sisters (and I say this as a Sister's player).
GW will likely come out with something cute and fluffy looking, like Ewoks. The army would be a series of different cute looking things to collect, like plastic beenie babies.
While that would be appropriately sexist of a toy company to do, that just isn't within GW's particularly modus operandi, making it an unrealistic expectation even for them.
Also, I'm amused to see someone using my old avatar. Wonder what the old friend who colorized it for me would think.
Graysparrow wrote: I don't think GW's plan for more female players is going to be updated Sisters (and I say this as a Sister's player).
GW will likely come out with something cute and fluffy looking, like Ewoks. The army would be a series of different cute looking things to collect, like plastic beenie babies.
What about Sisters of Silence? Wyches? etc.. many units are not this way lol.
Graysparrow wrote: I don't think GW's plan for more female players is going to be updated Sisters (and I say this as a Sister's player).
GW will likely come out with something cute and fluffy looking, like Ewoks. The army would be a series of different cute looking things to collect, like plastic beenie babies.
What about Sisters of Silence? Wyches? etc.. many units are not this way lol.
Galas wrote: I can't find it, but some guys in 4chan draw her without the armour and superimposed both images, saying that unlike Sister of SIlence and their wasp waist, Celestine and their Geminae where very muscular/fat, because their waist was much broader.
It was pretty hilarous, when people said that it was BS to do that kind of thing only with a female model they called people on Dakkadakka white knights and SJW, saying that they where just discussing the change of aesthetics of GW direction with female models! Probably in the news and rumours thread about Gathering Storm I one could find it.
They actually look like women wearing armour as opposed to a lot of other armoured female miniatures where the external silhouette of the armour is that of a naked woman. (so presumably they are emaciated inside there)
Wait, the new sculpts or the old sculpts? The old sculpts always looked to me like they were wearing power gloves and boots + lingerie.
As for the fat thing, well heh. I don't get it, but i know it happens. I still remember hearing people call the lead singer from evanescence fat. Its just a thing people do to women, apparently.
He was talking specifically about the new sculpt of Celestine, and the Gemini.
Ah, well my memory of them was they looked okay. Just spent the last 5 minutes searching for them so i can give an honest confirmation, but damned if i can find them. Adeptus ministroni - nope, don't seem to be there. I'm sure they're there somewhere, but buggered if i can find them. Oh well.
Meh. It's not a valid comparison. Sicarius, Cassius, Tigurius, Calgar, Chronus, Telion can all be bought on their own, and are all Ultramarines specific.
Sisters have barely over that many non-character units, and outside of Celestine, we only have a single HQ choice, and frankly the Canoness is kind of a pointless drag on our lists.
I don't really want to listen to an ultramarines player whining about not getting more stuff when they have more than everyone else already...
Galas wrote: I can't find it, but some guys in 4chan draw her without the armour and superimposed both images, saying that unlike Sister of SIlence and their wasp waist, Celestine and their Geminae where very muscular/fat, because their waist was much broader.
It was pretty hilarous, when people said that it was BS to do that kind of thing only with a female model they called people on Dakkadakka white knights and SJW, saying that they where just discussing the change of aesthetics of GW direction with female models! Probably in the news and rumours thread about Gathering Storm I one could find it.
They actually look like women wearing armour as opposed to a lot of other armoured female miniatures where the external silhouette of the armour is that of a naked woman. (so presumably they are emaciated inside there)
Wait, the new sculpts or the old sculpts? The old sculpts always looked to me like they were wearing power gloves and boots + lingerie.
As for the fat thing, well heh. I don't get it, but i know it happens. I still remember hearing people call the lead singer from evanescence fat. Its just a thing people do to women, apparently.
The new ones.
It's very telling that people sculpting old-style SoB usually start with a naked female base mini and just add a few details to it.
Of course the new ones look a bit chunky - they're wearing armour, not lingerie.
I think everyone is making too big of a deal about that. The important thing about St Cel and the twins is the high level of continuity with existing models. The differences are really quite minute.
Manchu wrote: I think everyone is making too big of a deal about that. The important thing about St Cel and the twins is the high level of continuity with existing models. The differences are really quite minute.
This is why I'm certain that any new Sisters of Battle models will look very close to the way they are now, just with more detail, better definition, probably a bit bigger, and overall just... sharper and better and easier to build, customize, convert, etc, y'know, all those things that Plastic is good for.
Yeah some things might change, but it's not going to be any radical departure from what we already know.
I actually just started building a Battle Sister Squad and I'm happy that, at least with this small force, there are no duplicate sculpts. There are a lot of details that will be improved. I'm sure the Bolters they have will no longer be these long flat boxes, but may actually have an aquila or fleur on them. I bet that their robes will change in detail to better work in plastic, and I'm sure that they'll grow in size a bit. The power armor backpack is at least 20% smaller than normal Space Marine backpacks now, despite them being the same piece of equipment. And of course, I'm hoping for a variety of backpacks, heads, helmets, and other things, since right now the backpack is one copied piece across all of them. Granted, Primaris is the same....
Amishprn86 wrote: No just showing that not all characters are sold separately and that SoB is no different.
Like I said earlier, Sisters only have the one character. And aside from that one character, Sisters only have a single, weak and purposeless HQ choice. Ultramarines have six named characters other than guilliman all of whom are available to purchase on their own, plus a billion options for deploying non-named characters.
So your point falls flat on its face and is irrelevant garbage. The situation simply is not the same, stop insisting it is.
Well, one thing that's telling is that new Codexes have, on the whole, not been coming out with new named characters. Primarchs and Triumvirate aside, we have only gotten a handful of new named characters.
The Death Guard release has been 'cute', giving names to otherwise generic HQ's and Elites, like Scribbus Wretch, the Tallyman. Rules-wise, he's a Tallyman, no different from any other Tallyman that anyone else would make.
My thinking is that this trend will continue. Fewer named characters and more generic HQ's that can fill a variety of roles. You can look to the Space Marine HQ for examples of what I mean, and you'll see these duplicated in other Codices.
An HQ that gives you re-rolls of 1 to hit.
An HQ that gives you re-rolls of 1 to wound.
An HQ that gives you re-rolls to hit in the Fight phase.
An HQ that gives you re-rolls to wound in the Fight phase.
Etc.
Beyond a Cannoness, what other sorts of HQ's could Sisters have? Or what models might be shifted into the HQ role to fill that out? Even AdMech had Enginseers shunted into the HQ slot to fill out their paltry selection.
Canoness; same as currently, but needs access to better wargear and a better support role. There's basically no reason to take her right now except as a tax to fill up your HQ slots for command points, grants an act of faith on a 2+.
Palatine: lesser, cheap HQ, preferably one that has a different buff, grants an act of faith on a 4+.
Anointed Saint: More customizable but weaker than Celestine, comes automatically with a relic of your choice, buffs nearby Sisters based on what relic she holds, plus always grants an act of faith to a nearby squad.
But we can go further than just this with little effort. Titles like Mistress of Initiates, Relic Bearer, Anointed Saint, Armorium Superior, Exorcist Conductor, etc. Sisters are actually a very easy faction to make new *stuff* for. Same with new units, really. Though this may be a case of "the fans are more creative than the writers".
Bring back the Prioress and Palatyne? Heck i wouldnt be surprised in cannoness is made into a CP cost upgrade similar to the SM chapter master. Perhaps a Cannoness superior or something along those lines to be unimaginatively samey to the SM.
Perhaps incorporating the wider Sororitas orders of the Dialogus, Hospitaller and famulous somehow.
Granted we have hospitaller and dialogus elites, but a command element could be hamfisted in.
A Theologian of the orders dialogus for example with an aura of rerolling morale and failed faith attempts?
I think one big thing they could do to improve on the Act of Faith system is instead of it behaving like Orders from the HQ, have it be like an aura.
Cannoness: Each unit within 6" of the Cannoness may attempt an Act of Faith. On a 4+, that unit gains the benefit of one Act of Faith of your choosing.
etc.
I think that'd help Sisters of Battle scale better in bigger games, instead of having to take a butt-load of imagifiers.
As much as I would prefer to see more Sister characters. GW is fond of giving us Priest and Confessor types to bulk out our HQ choices. I hope they don't go that route, but we have seen it before.
I would be okay if they moved one or more of the Elite SoB characters to the HQ slot like they did with the AdMech priest (?). Give an Imagifer access to ranged wargear and perhaps aura specific banners and you might have a worthwhile cheap HQ.
A cheaper Eviscerator and a jump pack for the Canoness would help her as well.
Hmm, that is one thing. the Ministorum do have Uriah Jacobus, and each Codex that the Sisters have been in, they've either given things to the Grey Knights or trimmed it further. Wasn't Karamazov in the Witch Hunters Codex originally with the Sisters?
I think the thing that would get clunky is if you have these priests and things like the Penitent Engines that don't have the 'Order' keyword. If you have 'Codex: Ministorum' with a bunch of extra units that don't have the 'Order' keyword, or anything else that would give them this version of the 'chapter tactics' then you're gimping the Codex from the get-go.
Personally, I'd rather see Sisters get their own thing, and things like Assassins, Inquisitors, and Ministorum get shoved into 'Codex: Imperial Agents'...
The Sister of Battle units without the "Order" keyword can work like the Imperial Guard Auxilia, Aeronautica, etc... they don't stop you from having Order/Regiment bonuses.
If we are spit balling on things I actually want to happen:
Apart from what we know that will happen (separate order's, relics, warlord traits and strats etc)
On the list without wish listing on order abilities:
Another generic HQ (which I think is pretty much guaranteed) Either will be a Prioress (Like a Chapter master upgrade) or a Palatine (maybe re-roll wounds of 1 or something similar).
Weapons:
Cheaper eviscerator (12pts)
Cheaper melta weapons (heck I would say cheaper melta/multi, flamer/heavy and heavy bolters cause we specialise in the three and that's all)
Infantry:
Canoness: jump pack (17pts)
Imagifier down in points (35pts)
Celestian squad: give them some cc options or something
Repentia: can advance and still charge, make their SoF re-rollable
Vehicles:
Simulacrum Imperialis upgrade to vehicles (35 pts): As in still does exact same thing as a imagifier (AoF on any infantry within 6" on a 4+ etc) just can be upgraded that a vehicle can cast it on the infantry.
Exorcist: D6 damage
Just off the top of my head.
I wont restate what I think about plastic sisters. But this is what I hope SoB do get in the future (and what I expect is all we will get). But to those who have been dying for plastic sisters I do hope your wishes come true.
As much as I would prefer to see more Sister characters. GW is fond of giving us Priest and Confessor types to bulk out our HQ choices. I hope they don't go that route, but we have seen it before.
I would be okay if they moved one or more of the Elite SoB characters to the HQ slot like they did with the AdMech priest (?). Give an Imagifer access to ranged wargear and perhaps aura specific banners and you might have a worthwhile cheap HQ.
A cheaper Eviscerator and a jump pack for the Canoness would help her as well.
As a person with 20 pounds of f""ing metal models, i no longer agree with anything you say, i want f""ing plastic SOB, i hate metal, i hate playing with metal, i hate painting metal, i hate converting metal, i hate transporting metal, i hate modeling metal, i hate everything about metal.
If SoB doesnt get anything else and only plastic, i be freaking happy as can be.
As a person with 20 pounds of f""ing metal models, i no longer agree with anything you say, i want f""ing plastic SOB, i hate metal, i hate playing with metal, i hate painting metal, i hate converting metal, i hate transporting metal, i hate modeling metal, i hate everything about metal.
If SoB doesnt get anything else and only plastic, i be freaking happy as can be.
Unless they drop a new SoB unit I can't convert from the metals, and I have gotten quite good at converting them, then I won't be buying any plastic models for my Sisters. I highly doubt there is anything on the way anyways. At this point I have the sinking feeling that the rules they do get are just going to expand the role of the Ecclesiarchy within the list and not much for Sisters. Never mind the hue and cry to nerf Celestine because she buffs guard so well.
If everyone has to keep lugging around heavy metal Sisters to keep the list SoBcentric and rules that keep them competitive I am fine with that.
If they don't finally make a full range SoB plastic product line then the new GW isn't any better than the old...
It's just stupid, i know quite a few players and also female players who would buy into SoB if the models would look a little bit better than the 2nd edition metal stuff we still have to deal with...
The 2nd edition SoBs are just really.... expecially their faces omg... i just can't and won't buy this outdated stuff. So no SoB for me and many other players until they release new/updated plastics.
I really would like to buy into SoB plastics...
My order would be huge, easily over 1000€+ just for SoB....
Yeah man, that seems to be the common sympathy. "I'd buy them if they were plastic." Yet GW seems oblivious to this, or doubtful that we mean what we say?
The thing that gets me is that if they weren't going to eventually update them, why mention them at all in other Codexes? There are mentions of Guilliman freeing Ophelia VII in the Space Marine Codexes and mentions in the new Astra Militarum Codex of them being more righteous than even Crusaders. They even got Celestine. We're literally just waiting on the rest of the line to drop.
I have:
Ultramarines
Tyranids
Death Guard
Necrons
Blood Angels
Orks
soon IG
6 (soon 7) freaking huge armies that don't appeal to female players at all. Not even Blood Angels. Atleast at my location.
What i am missing now is an serious female army. Sisters of Silence are just meh, SoB would be much much better, so everyone says here atleast (including females)!
Sisters of Silence kinda were just a misleading and disappointing release anyway... I was expecting SoB when they clearly said "Sisters of Battle" are coming. On their Facebook page they quote they never said "Sisters of Battle" just "Sisters..." but as everyone knows that's just bull...
40k in it's current state is absolutely nothing for female players, only a few want to play some random armies.
Most female players i met want SoB, but as soon they look at the 2nd edition stuff and expecially at the price tag they decide to rather play something different or (in most cases) not play at all.
Yes i know, some say "female" players don't really want/need female models to play 40k or any tabletop.
But that's just wrong imo, i have a complete different experience. Just use MMORPGs as an example, pretty much every female player plays an female char. Whereas male players usualy play female chars, go figure :p
drbored wrote: My thinking is that it's just a matter of time till Greyfax and Celestine are sold on their own, now that Cawl is on his own.
It's just a matter of waiting, something SoB players are good at.
No, I'm terrible at waiting my patience is dead.
drbored wrote: The thing that gets me is that if they weren't going to eventually update them, why mention them at all in other Codexes? There are mentions of Guilliman freeing Ophelia VII in the Space Marine Codexes and mentions in the new Astra Militarum Codex of them being more righteous than even Crusaders.
All of this happened before with no new models being released so...
Himmelweiss wrote: I have:
Ultramarines
Tyranids
Death Guard
Necrons
Blood Angels
Orks
soon IG
6 (soon 7) freaking huge armies that don't appeal to female players at all. Not even Blood Angels. Atleast at my location.
What i am missing now is an serious female army. Sisters of Silence are just meh, SoB would be much much better, so everyone says here atleast (including females)!
Sisters of Silence kinda were just a misleading and disappointing release anyway... I was expecting SoB when they clearly said "Sisters of Battle" are coming. On their Facebook page they quote they never said "Sisters of Battle" just "Sisters..." but as everyone knows that's just bull...
40k in it's current state is absolutely nothing for female players, only a few want to play some random armies.
Most female players i met want SoB, but as soon they look at the 2nd edition stuff and expecially at the price tag they decide to rather play something different or (in most cases) not play at all.
Yes i know, some say "female" players don't really want/need female models to play 40k or any tabletop.
But that's just wrong imo, i have a complete different experience. Just use MMORPGs as an example, pretty much every female player plays an female char. Whereas male players usualy play female chars, go figure :p
It was hard to read your response (grammatically etc).
However, I get what you are saying. Though, your emphasis is on female players (obviously you said it like 9 times...). Multi-gender armies are not defined by one gender. For example, Eldar/Dark Eldar have a good mix of both genders (without being totally defined by it).
Yes SoB are totally defined by their gender and I love them as a parabola to SM, but there is a lot of multi or no gender armies in 40k, nids, orks, crons, etc. You seem to surmise your small pool of friends that want to play and project it on to all, well then??? I have multiple 'female friends' that do play a multitude of armies...do my friends out number yours to make it 'most'?
You say pretty much every player... do you know every player?
Orks are defined as masculine. Yes, they technically have no gender. But they're defined as masculine, and they define themselves as masculine. They are "Boyz", and highly macho ones at that. So they're not really useful in this discussion-- they are effectively a male-only race culturally, even if they are technically not male.
Necrons and Tau are generally male-dominated, with women being the exception-- you have "Tomb Lords" ("Lord" is traditionally associated with the masculine), and a bunch of male examples of "Tomb Lords" with no female examples outside of some obscure references that aren't reflected on the tabletop.
Tau, you have less gendered terminology (commander, for example, and most terms are in the Tau's own language anyway), but very few named female characters-- almost all male, giving off the impression of a male-dominated society.
Same with Guard, but moreso, because GW doesn't even give us a female named character for Guard and very few named female characters in books, and doesn't represent guardswomen at all on the tabletop in any shape or fashion outside of a certain very old squad which is very fanservicey and not very Guard-y.
Eldar are less so, but most of the phoenix lords were and are male and this is represented through their unit selection and named characters. Dark Eldar are simultaneously worse and better on this compared to regular Eldar.
Tyranids are the only one you're really right on. Outside of the Norn-Queen (whose alternative name, "splicer-beasts", is non-gendered, and is kind of obscure fluff anyway not appearing on the tabletop at all), they don't use gendered terminology. I've seen numerous women play Tyranid armies, actually, but this is probably only a minor factor for them.
All that said, what a lot of people forget is that ultimately, women are people, and each woman has her own individual tastes.
While marketing loves the idea of cutting women off from "people as a whole" and treating women as a monolithic group (one of marketing culture's many, many sins), honestly the best way to attract more women to the hobby is probably just to be more welcoming of women entering the hobby in the first place. Make the stores feel like a safe place women would want to spend hours of her time in. What this means varies depending on the woman and the store, but some stores have a LOT of work to do to make that happen.
edit: and well, this is kind of off topic, so I've said my piece and I'm out.
Melissia wrote: Outside of the Norn-Queen (whose alternative name, "splicer-beasts", is non-gendered, and is kind of obscure fluff anyway not appearing on the tabletop at all), they don't use gendered terminology.
Well, termagants, hive crones, harpies, dominatrix, harridans, broodlords and the swarmlord.
But I agree with your general point.
Himmelweiss wrote: I have:
Ultramarines
Tyranids
Death Guard
Necrons
Blood Angels
Orks
soon IG
6 (soon 7) freaking huge armies that don't appeal to female players at all. Not even Blood Angels. Atleast at my location.
What i am missing now is an serious female army. Sisters of Silence are just meh, SoB would be much much better, so everyone says here atleast (including females)!
Sisters of Silence kinda were just a misleading and disappointing release anyway... I was expecting SoB when they clearly said "Sisters of Battle" are coming. On their Facebook page they quote they never said "Sisters of Battle" just "Sisters..." but as everyone knows that's just bull...
40k in it's current state is absolutely nothing for female players, only a few want to play some random armies.
Most female players i met want SoB, but as soon they look at the 2nd edition stuff and expecially at the price tag they decide to rather play something different or (in most cases) not play at all.
Yes i know, some say "female" players don't really want/need female models to play 40k or any tabletop.
But that's just wrong imo, i have a complete different experience. Just use MMORPGs as an example, pretty much every female player plays an female char. Whereas male players usualy play female chars, go figure :p
Women don't play 40k for the same reason they don't play x-wing because as a general rule they don't enjoy competitive games, adding more female oriented stuff won't magically change that.
Same with video games adding female avatars to battlefront didn't make women flock to play it, women like mmo's because its a cooperative experience.
Female leads in action movies don't suddenly make women want to go see it.
They should add sisters because there's a demand not to further a regressive agenda.
The sexes have different interests and that's fine.
Himmelweiss wrote: I have:
Ultramarines
Tyranids
Death Guard
Necrons
Blood Angels
Orks
soon IG
6 (soon 7) freaking huge armies that don't appeal to female players at all. Not even Blood Angels. Atleast at my location.
What i am missing now is an serious female army. Sisters of Silence are just meh, SoB would be much much better, so everyone says here atleast (including females)!
Sisters of Silence kinda were just a misleading and disappointing release anyway... I was expecting SoB when they clearly said "Sisters of Battle" are coming. On their Facebook page they quote they never said "Sisters of Battle" just "Sisters..." but as everyone knows that's just bull...
40k in it's current state is absolutely nothing for female players, only a few want to play some random armies.
Most female players i met want SoB, but as soon they look at the 2nd edition stuff and expecially at the price tag they decide to rather play something different or (in most cases) not play at all.
Yes i know, some say "female" players don't really want/need female models to play 40k or any tabletop.
But that's just wrong imo, i have a complete different experience. Just use MMORPGs as an example, pretty much every female player plays an female char. Whereas male players usualy play female chars, go figure :p
It was hard to read your response (grammatically etc).
However, I get what you are saying. Though, your emphasis is on female players (obviously you said it like 9 times...). Multi-gender armies are not defined by one gender. For example, Eldar/Dark Eldar have a good mix of both genders (without being totally defined by it).
Yes SoB are totally defined by their gender and I love them as a parabola to SM, but there is a lot of multi or no gender armies in 40k, nids, orks, crons, etc. You seem to surmise your small pool of friends that want to play and project it on to all, well then??? I have multiple 'female friends' that do play a multitude of armies...do my friends out number yours to make it 'most'?
You say pretty much every player... do you know every player?
SC
Yup, my grammar can be very horrible in english. I am aware of it, so sorry for that.
Ofc. i don't know every player, but in Bavaria, Munich and Nuernberg there are really tons of players, so i know quite a few. But it is still, as you said, a small pool of friends.
However, it is no secret that many in the world wide web want an SoB update. Not just an Codex update...
Thank you NentokaMoon, basic human decency (hygiene being an important part) is a good step.
Back on track, I really like Sisters of Battle and consider them an important fixture of the setting. More often than not they work just as well as Space Marines when trying to find a group that "embodies" 40k. I would gladly buy a SoB force (at least a SW:A squad) but for the price and the all-metal minis being a pain to convert.
Himmelweiss wrote: I have:
Ultramarines
Tyranids
Death Guard
Necrons
Blood Angels
Orks
soon IG
6 (soon 7) freaking huge armies that don't appeal to female players at all. Not even Blood Angels. Atleast at my location.
What i am missing now is an serious female army. Sisters of Silence are just meh, SoB would be much much better, so everyone says here atleast (including females)!
Sisters of Silence kinda were just a misleading and disappointing release anyway... I was expecting SoB when they clearly said "Sisters of Battle" are coming. On their Facebook page they quote they never said "Sisters of Battle" just "Sisters..." but as everyone knows that's just bull...
40k in it's current state is absolutely nothing for female players, only a few want to play some random armies.
Most female players i met want SoB, but as soon they look at the 2nd edition stuff and expecially at the price tag they decide to rather play something different or (in most cases) not play at all.
Yes i know, some say "female" players don't really want/need female models to play 40k or any tabletop.
But that's just wrong imo, i have a complete different experience. Just use MMORPGs as an example, pretty much every female player plays an female char. Whereas male players usualy play female chars, go figure :p
Women don't play 40k for the same reason they don't play x-wing because as a general rule they don't enjoy competitive games, adding more female oriented stuff won't magically change that.
Same with video games adding female avatars to battlefront didn't make women flock to play it, women like mmo's because its a cooperative experience.
Female leads in action movies don't suddenly make women want to go see it.
They should add sisters because there's a demand not to further a regressive agenda.
The sexes have different interests and that's fine.
Actually i have to agree with you on all points.
But when it comes to video games, Overwatch from Blizzard is quite different there. A LOT of womens play Overwatch and it is an very competive shooter.
But that's just 1 game, so you are still right :p
Melissia wrote: Outside of the Norn-Queen (whose alternative name, "splicer-beasts", is non-gendered, and is kind of obscure fluff anyway not appearing on the tabletop at all), they don't use gendered terminology.
Well, termagants, hive crones, harpies, dominatrix, harridans, broodlords and the swarmlord.
But I agree with your general point.
Well, those terms are the terms the Imperium uses to descrive them. Is not like Tyranids call themselves that. I doubt Tyranids call themselves anything.
And I don't know why you say that Dark Eldar are bad in the female-male ratio? Actually they are the best ones in that. All of their plastic kits have a mix of male-female torsos (6 male torsos:4 female torsos in the Kabalite Warrior box, and the opposite in the Wytchs box). Jetbikes, the ones with wings, etc... they all have both male and female torsos. One can say that in characters, males have the predominance with I believe... one special male character and two generic male characters, when theres only one special female character and one generic female character.
But when it comes to video games, Overwatch from Blizzard is quite different there. A LOT of womens play Overwatch and it is an very competive shooter.
But that's just 1 game, so you are still right :p
Are you saying that he is demonstrably wrong but you still agree with him?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Galas wrote: Well, those terms are the terms the Imperium uses to descrive them. Is not like Tyranids call themselves that. I doubt Tyranids call themselves anything.
Well, yeah, but the tyranid don't call themself Norn-Queen either so my answer made sense in context .
But when it comes to video games, Overwatch from Blizzard is quite different there. A LOT of womens play Overwatch and it is an very competive shooter.
But that's just 1 game, so you are still right :p
Are you saying that he is demonstrably wrong but you still agree with him?
No, he was totally right with what he was saying.
Just that one video game "Overwatch" came into my mind which is just an exception.
I like the Female SoB models b.c the are just cool looking, they are Sleeker than SM, i dont like SM models, i also like DE and Harlequins for the same reason.
I also like the play style where i dont like SM play style.
I honestly never thought SOB was "meant for women" i mean it was 30yrs ago made by men... we all know why they were made
I really don't like these realms of conversation. Why can't we have Sisters of Battle because we just want Sisters of Battle? Why does every topic about Sisters of Battle turn into a big gender and political argument? Whether or not GW tries to appeal more to women is a whole separate issue from Sisters of Battle.
They have already released Celestine and her design is very in line with the old Sisters of Battle models. In other words, the boob plate is here to stay. I think if GW wanted to tip-toe around gender politics, they would have changed that drastically by now.
A man who says women don't enjoy competition, is a man who has never actually paid any attention to women.
drbored wrote: Why does every topic about Sisters of Battle turn into a big gender and political argument?
Because any time someone wants new female miniatures it gets labeled "politics" by default by hypocrites who want to pretend they're not being political in order to make themselves feel better about their political views.
gnome_idea_what wrote: Back on track, I really like Sisters of Battle and consider them an important fixture of the setting. More often than not they work just as well as Space Marines when trying to find a group that "embodies" 40k. I would gladly buy a SoB force (at least a SW:A squad) but for the price and the all-metal minis being a pain to convert.
Indeed. Sisters basically embody the best and worst aspects of the Imperium of Man as a whole, to me. Fanatical warriors following the cult of a dying god-emperor, that yet also run some of the most effective charity, medical, and administrative elements of the nation. The multi-faceted nature of their lore makes them far deeper than most Space Marine lore could ever hope to be. .
drbored wrote: I really don't like these realms of conversation. Why can't we have Sisters of Battle because we just want Sisters of Battle? Why does every topic about Sisters of Battle turn into a big gender and political argument? Whether or not GW tries to appeal more to women is a whole separate issue from Sisters of Battle.
They have already released Celestine and her design is very in line with the old Sisters of Battle models. In other words, the boob plate is here to stay. I think if GW wanted to tip-toe around gender politics, they would have changed that drastically by now.
Politics
Spoiler:
It's an attempt to disguise their own misogyny, and promote their own "regressive agenda", to recycle hobojebus's language. Any time women show up as anything other than a sex object it triggers the misogynists to see the supposed undermining of their perceptions of masculine power and superiority. They call us triggered, but sure as sin it's the pot calling the kettle black, for it takes but a single passing reference to a woman in a position of equal power to a man elicit cries of the regression of society into the dark ages of female dominance.
I've bit my tongue thus far and said nothing, but I'm tired of holding it. The "difference in interests" is not a product of genetics, but a product of socialization. It can be eliminated, and it doesn't take the forced castration of all men. Men can like knitting and women can like toy soldiers if society would destigmatize it. Interests don't have to be gendered, it's our choice to gender them in order to perpetuate the power differential.
There, I'm done.
Anyway, I like the "boob plate". The whole decorative nature of our armor set really does capture the church-at-war aspect of our army.
I'd prefer something more platemail lke, but as long as it's similar to what the redone Celestine (as opposed to the obnoxious nipple-spike canoness model, or the skull-fethed stupid heeled "not actually wearing power armor" blanchian crap) I don't mind. It's quite an iconic design for Sisters, so I'm not gonna be upset at no major changes to the armor design.
I will be upset at no major changes to our army list. We really need new units, new -stuff-.
Melissia wrote: A man who says women don't enjoy competition, is a man who has never actually paid any attention to women.
drbored wrote: Why does every topic about Sisters of Battle turn into a big gender and political argument?
Because any time someone wants new female miniatures it gets labeled "politics" by default by hypocrites who want to pretend they're not being political in order to make themselves feel better about their political views.
gnome_idea_what wrote: Back on track, I really like Sisters of Battle and consider them an important fixture of the setting. More often than not they work just as well as Space Marines when trying to find a group that "embodies" 40k. I would gladly buy a SoB force (at least a SW:A squad) but for the price and the all-metal minis being a pain to convert.
Indeed. Sisters basically embody the best and worst aspects of the Imperium of Man as a whole, to me. Fanatical warriors following the cult of a dying god-emperor, that yet also run some of the most effective charity, medical, and administrative elements of the nation. The multi-faceted nature of their lore makes them far deeper than most Space Marine lore could ever hope to be. .
Except I didn't say that did I so that's a strawman argument right from the start.
It wasn't political until someone chimed in with " more female models=more female gamers" which every bit of research on gender preference disproves, so your insulting the feminists which I don't think was your intention.
Nothing. Actually I'll stop this part of the conversation right now.
hobojebus wrote: It wasn't political until someone chimed in with " more female models=more female gamers" which every bit of research on gender preference disproves
They do? Really? Wow. Where can I find that research which shows more female representation doesn't increase the appeal to women?
You are making a pretty specific claim and looking for sources on my favorite search engines gave me no result of any studies confirming it. So, in keeping with your sarcastic and unpleasant tone, I am going to say your affirmation is 100% made up all false, without backing my claim with anything except "literally hundreds of studies, 100% of the studies, I have the best studies".
Pretending you're not being political is cute, but dishonest.
If anything, you're the one that's injecting politics in to this. Before you started your rants, people were just talking about what they wanted for the future of the hobby. And then you inserted your political views by calling anyone who disagreed with you political in order to try to shut down conversation.
Apparently, anyone who likes the hobby in a way other than The Way As Approved By HoboJesus is just "being political", and the only way to not "be political" is to agree with hobojesus.
Lord Fangio •
Considering that a staffer at GW yesterday absentmindedly told me that his first army of 2018 would be sisters because he will finally not have to deal with metal. Then tried to backtrack after being given the evils by the manager, I have my suspicions as to why the Kickstarter got canned.
Lord Fangio jexinator •
I have been waiting excitedly for plastic sisters since 2003. Sadly I have suffered so many dissapointments during this wait that even this I take with a handful of salt.
Though that said, the manager in the above story then started to explain how the plastic Sisters of Silence had been made to prove to the investors that there was a market for female miniatures outside of FW. And they have sold very well. Then we also have the recent investor report about wanting to make more female figurines.
Also, early this year I was talking to a GW manager in one of the London stores and he told me with great confidence that he expected Sisters to be the 11/12th codex. At the time the 10 codices before Xmas hadn't been announced, so I just assumed he meant it would be next Summer or Autumn (which was cool enough).
Again, I refuse to get excited in case GWHQ has been feeding misinformation down the lines."
The Kickstarter being cancelled means nothing as I don't see how Shieldwolf Miniatures could have any information on a future Sisters release, and it wouldn't even change the number of backers they already had.
And Lord Fangio's comments on Spikey Bits it not the most reliable source, and GW explicitely admitted to trolling Sisters of Battle players before so... won't raise my hopes up.
Melissia wrote: If anything, you're the one that's injecting politics in to this.
Incorrect information was being presented so I offered an opposing stance.
The fact your attacking me instead of my argument means there's no point carrying on, you've taken it personally but for me it isn't I just dislike false narratives being pushed as if they were true.
I've seen what this kind of thing has done to atheism and marvel comics I'd rather it not infect wargames.
hobojebus wrote: The fact your attacking me instead of my argument
Actually, I am attacking your argument. You made the argument that anyone who disagreed with you was being political, and that argument, I attacked as utter nonsense; at its very core, it is an argument made in bad faith.
hobojebus wrote: Incorrect information was being presented so I offered an opposing stance.
The fact your attacking me instead of my argument means there's no point carrying on, you've taken it personally but for me it isn't I just dislike false narratives being pushed as if they were true.
Nobody is asking you to argue. I was just curious about your sources. Post a few simple URLs and be done with it. Or, alternatively, when you are trying to push your own narrative because you are irritated by reading things that goes against it, don't invent studies that do not exist to support your viewpoint. Whichever applies. Really I am fine with both.
That kickstarter could have been canceled by a cease and desist by GW. You don't need to have a lawsuit going to file a DMCA, and if Shieldwolf Miniatures decided to respect that, then there you go.
It could also be that they ran into some other issue that helped them realize they couldn't deliver on their promise. Dotting some i's and crossing some t's, or a decimal point in the wrong place.
Either way, I'm really surprised they didn't post a reason as to why, as that would clear that up right away.
I can dream that it's because GW told them 'Hey, cut that out, we want to make this first.'
Guys, why is so hard to you to stop this conversation right here? Theres no obligation to answer to a obviously political statmen of other poster. You have the yellow triangle of friendship.
Meh. The argument of "I'm not being political, everyone else is!" is one of the 9999 pet peeves of mine. Regardless, you have a point in that this IS getting off topic, so I'm bowing out.
Thanks! I guess we'll just keep an eye on this to see what happened... But if GW intervened in any way, that really only supports Sisters coming sooner.
For a Sisters of Battle fanatic like myself, it just seems like too much.
Adding in that they just released the Sisters of Battle Omnibus, they did a Sisters of Battle daily paint tutorial on Warhammer TV, they mention Sisters of Battle in the Space Marine and Astra Militarum Codexes when they certainly don't have to... It's a lot of little things that make it seem like the Sisters have been getting more and more attention from GW lately.
In the Space Marine Codex they're saved by Guilliman in the Indomnitus Crusade and in the AM Codex they are mentioned as being more faithful even than Crusaders that are now in the AM Dex.
I don' t think they're being taken away, simply shared as crusaders and preist both possess both the <Astra militarum> and <Adeptustus Ministorum> keywords. Their abilities like Zealot and Act of Faith also are outside the realm of IG's abilities.
I'd look at it more as throwing a bone to those of us with regiments on the more zealous side.
Ir0njack wrote: I don' t think they're being taken away, simply shared as crusaders and preist both possess both the <Astra militarum> and <Adeptustus Ministorum> keywords.
Starts like this. And then when a new WDex is released after an edition change you find out crusaders have disappeared.
Ir0njack wrote: I don' t think they're being taken away, simply shared as crusaders and preist both possess both the <Astra militarum> and <Adeptustus Ministorum> keywords.
Starts like this. And then when a new WDex is released after an edition change you find out crusaders have disappeared.
Why do you keep coming to this topic just to be a downer, man?
If GW wanted to squat the sisters, they wouldn't make any mention of them at all in any Codex. I remember past rulebooks, I believe it was... 6th edition? They weren't mentioned at all. In 7th, they were mentioned thanks to their digital codex and now in 8th they're being mentioned in not just the rulebook, but other Codexes as well.
Also Crusaders aren't really Adepta Sororitas at all. They're just Ministorum. In my ideal world, Sisters would get their own fully fleshed out Codex that wouldn't need priests or crusaders, and all those other things would get thrown into an 'Imperial Agents' Codex that would cover assassins, imperial knights, the rest of the ministorum stuff, inquisitors, and whatever else doesn't fit into other codexes.
drbored wrote: Why do you keep coming to this topic just to be a downer, man?
Because I have lost all hope with time .
.
drbored wrote: If GW wanted to squat the sisters, they wouldn't make any mention of them at all in any Codex.
They don't want to squat the Sisters. Remember how Guiliman was before the whole Gathering Storm stuff? Perpetually frozen in time in a stasis, slowly being poisoned? That's how GW wants the Sisters to be.
drbored wrote: I remember past rulebooks, I believe it was... 6th edition? They weren't mentioned at all. In 7th, they were mentioned thanks to their digital codex and now in 8th they're being mentioned in not just the rulebook, but other Codexes as well.
In 5th edition Sisters played a big role in the Grey Knight codex!
drbored wrote: Also Crusaders aren't really Adepta Sororitas at all. They're just Ministorum.
They aren't really Ministorum either. They are weird stuff with basically no background that dates from when GW thought their new 54mm scale game was so cool they wanted to include all of it in 40k too. I wouldn't mind them being replaced by new units in a new Codex Sororitas, but in practice it's always less stuff rather than stuff being replaced...
Hey Valrak. First off, great videos man!
Just watched your sisters video and I have some info you might be interested in about them. Comes from a GW employee and then a GW store owner:
We were supposed to get them before 8th became a thing. But with the whole shipping debacle they've been going through. The sisters got tied up. So they decided to hold off, wait for 8th to drop and just release them in full. Which is why we got some weird releases before the dropping of 8th. They used their "filler" releases.
There it is. Take from it what you will. Have a good one man.
The hype is building up guys. As much as you nay-sayers love to nay-say, I am going to hold the faith. As a true Sisters of Battle fan, it is only when we are tested to our limit that the Emperor rewards us for retaining our faith.
Martel732 wrote: I hope you guys get plastic minis. It's only right and fair.
Thanks man! I hope Eldar get their updates, and we get some love for Emperor's Children, and new Khorne Berzerkers too. I'm not just a fanatic about Sisters of Battle, I think there's a lot that GW needs to get their butts on updating, not just more loyal Space Marines!
Martel732 wrote: Loyalists have too many kits. BA alone have too many kits, and we don't have access to many things the vanilla guys do.
I've always been in favor of putting the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Space Wolves into the vanilla codex, giving them Chapter Tactics like the rest and tossing out some random shoulder pad upgrade packs...
But GW wouldn't make it if it didn't make money. The only times they've tried things that they weren't sure were going to make money were Dark Eldar and the Canoness Veridyan. Surprise, surprise, both of those made BANK.
I think a new Sisters line would be awesome and well deserved. I would probably have to fight myself pretty hard not to start an army of them because they've always been on of my favorite factions.
Buuuut - prepare to hate me for a bit of advocacy for the devil. Every poll or survey I've ever seen has the popularity of Sisters loafing around last place, usually tied or trading around with Khorne Daemonkin and Harlequins. Though that might be reason for hope in itself because Harlequins got new models and a codex last edition.
Hardcore Sisters fans are already used to tempering their expectations, but all I'm saying is that I'm not personally going to get excited because some guy heard from some guy that some kid who works for a GW store accidentally let slip about a Sisters Release. If it happens, great. I think one thing all of us can agree on is that we'd like to see just about anything happen before more Space Marines come out, but alas.
If there was anything that was going to convince me to start a totally new army, it's probably sisters getting updated. Didn't buy nearly as much as I thought I would for the DG update, so maybe I'll set some of that aside for potential sisters.
How angry would people be if sisters got a plastic release, but they pulled an AoS and it was all sisters repentia with a bunch of different variations, and nothing for the main portion? I don't even want to imagine it.
drbored wrote: We were supposed to get them before 8th became a thing. But with the whole shipping debacle they've been going through. The sisters got tied up. So they decided to hold off, wait for 8th to drop and just release them in full. Which is why we got some weird releases before the dropping of 8th. They used their "filler" releases.
I really don't understand how anyone could fall for that. “Sisters are ready since 8th but we manage to deliver the whole primaris marine and death guard on time”. Yeah right!
I just talked to a friend of mine who works at a GW store. He said Sisters of Battle are not happening anytime soon. I quote:
"Yeah, i dont see them being worked on until after everything has a Codex"
The reasons for this are a, once again, "financial risk" atm, because there's not enough guarantee that enough people would actually buy plastic Sisters, despite all the wishlisting, hard-core players, and newer players waiting to buy some.
Luciferian wrote: ...Every poll or survey I've ever seen has the popularity of Sisters loafing around last place, usually tied or trading around with Khorne Daemonkin and Harlequins. Though that might be reason for hope in itself because Harlequins got new models and a codex last edition.
This. Right now, there's still not enough support for them to be considered a good trade of time and resources.
As others have stated in this thread and many, many others, I'd drop everything I was working on hobby-wise if GeeDubs suddenly announced a new codex with a brand-new line of shiny plastic. Until then, I'm more than happy starting up a Death Guard army.
Dr. Temujin wrote: I just talked to a friend of mine who works at a GW store. He said Sisters of Battle are not happening anytime soon. I quote:
"Yeah, i dont see them being worked on until after everything has a Codex"
The reasons for this are a, once again, "financial risk" atm, because there's not enough guarantee that enough people would actually buy plastic Sisters, despite all the wishlisting, hard-core players, and newer players waiting to buy some.
Luciferian wrote: ...Every poll or survey I've ever seen has the popularity of Sisters loafing around last place, usually tied or trading around with Khorne Daemonkin and Harlequins. Though that might be reason for hope in itself because Harlequins got new models and a codex last edition.
This. Right now, there's still not enough support for them to be considered a good trade of time and resources.
As others have stated in this thread and many, many others, I'd drop everything I was working on hobby-wise if GeeDubs suddenly announced a new codex with a brand-new line of shiny plastic. Until then, I'm more than happy starting up a Death Guard army.
A. OF COURSE POPULARITY OF SISTERS IS DOWN, THEY HAVE THE OLDEST LINE THAT'S STILL METAL. Polls involving current players of 40k are going to put Sisters dead last because of the cost of getting into the army and the age of the models. Update those models and they'll shoot up the list immediately.
B. Dark Eldar were a 'financial risk' as well, but ended up being a MASSIVE success. Also, Primaris and Death Guard, their two poster children, have just been released, which means GW is floating on a huge boat of cash. Now would be the time to take a financial risk because they've got the Primaris/Death Guard cushion to catch them if it fails. Waiting until all of the other Codexes have been released is the WORST time to take a risk because other factions that aren't as popular would have been updated and wouldn't have earned them as much money, meaning there's no 'cash boat' to float on any more.
People talkin' about business like they know how it works, smh.
Melissia wrote: Meh. The argument of "I'm not being political, everyone else is!" is one of the 9999 pet peeves of mine. Regardless, you have a point in that this IS getting off topic, so I'm bowing out.
That's a lot of pet peeves. /respect
----------
What if new sisters came out in plastic and they were more expensive than the old metals.... Would they still be as popular? Given that this is a very real possibility here.
What if new sisters came out in plastic and they were more expensive than the old metals.... Would they still be as popular? Given that this is a very real possibility here.
If they were more than $80 for a squad of battle sisters I don't think GW could safely sleep with both eyes closed
What if new sisters came out in plastic and they were more expensive than the old metals.... Would they still be as popular? Given that this is a very real possibility here.
If they were more than $80 for a squad of battle sisters I don't think GW could safely sleep with both eyes closed
Come to australia, we have pie..... and gw prices. It's a very real question.
What shipping debacle? The only problem I saw was the White Dwarf clearing house going tits up in the U.S. So I don't see anything that would prevent such a release especially when everything else came out just fine. It's not like they make their minis in another country.
Come to australia, we have pie..... and gw prices. It's a very real question.
Every time I open the GW web store it brings up the Australian prices and I give up the hobby. Still, it would be pretty horrible if they were more expensive than the metal sets in any currency!
Come to australia, we have pie..... and gw prices. It's a very real question.
Our average wage is a lot higher than most other countries (So GW's costs to operate in Australia are also higher than in a lot of other countries). Hence, GW will charge more in comparison to other countries (on top of the dollar value). For example, a SoB heavy weapon is 8.7 pounds in Britten (around $15 AUD). However, in Australia the exact same model is $23 AUD. Why the extra? Because running cost in Australia + shipping etc is a lot higher Downunder in comparison to say selling in the USA (Same model costs $14 US dollars = $18 AUD). (8.7 pounds = $11.50 US dollars)
We pay more for most things in Australia, why would GW be any different?
(Exchange rates used are those current at time of posting).
Come to australia, we have pie..... and gw prices. It's a very real question.
Our average wage is a lot higher than most other countries (So GW's costs to operate in Australia are also higher than in a lot of other countries). Hence, GW will charge more in comparison to other countries (on top of the dollar value). We pay more for most things in Australia, why would GW be any different?
Our expenses are a lot higher than most other countries too, so it sort of balances out. As for why GW would be any different? Well it would be nice, but can't really argue this one. Most things double in price when they hit our borders. Kind of sucks though.
Some of our expenses are (but on the whole we come out ahead I think in the argument of more expense but higher wage). For GW, I think we end up paying the same as the rest of the world in comparison. I don't find GW expensive, it's not cheap but it is way cheaper than some other hobbies.
EDIT: Why ebay is really good for armies, because get other country prices and even cheaper. Though, I prefer to buy direct from GW to support them, I have bought a lot from ebay and is way cheaper (especially with metal models which are easy to strip).
Well, i just look at things that originate from overseas. Computer games are a good example of this, they're usually about $50 american or $100 australian. American works out cheaper. But my go-to rant involves my watch. It costs ~$400 australian to buy it in australia. But i didn't, i bought it online from america and it costs ~$200 australian to buy it and have it sent over. On small items, it may not be so noticable. But there comes a point where you have to say - hot damn. GW stuff is at that point. So is cigarettes, but that's another story.
Its because you didn't use an Australian retailer etc (they don't have to pay Australian wages, taxes (cause under the threshold) etc so can mark it down).
I'm not a business person but I think this is happening around the world with the internet age/international shipping being easy.
Personally if I can afford to pay more I will order from an Australian company (or someone who operates in Australia so they are paying for Australian employees) over paying a little less for the same product. However, I get what you are saying why pay more if get same for less?
It is all down to your prerogative of what you can afford.
GW example, I could order a DW Kill team box set for $60 from my local GW. Or I could order the exact same box from an ebay store for $55 (includes postage to my door). If I wanted 4 I would go into my local and order 2 (cost me $10 extra but gets him/her sales and supports the hobby I like) and would order 2 from ebay.
Doesn't cost me much, but gives GW some money (they made the hobby I play), supports the local store and gets me some stuff cheaper. Everyone wins.
(Obviously I would get the get started DW set for $140 each x2 but is an example)
But.... the watch wasn't made in australia.... It was made in america, or more likely china. The australian merchants weren't charging more because they had to pay to have it created here. It was sitting on a shelf in their stores, or in their warehouse, and that doesn't cost 200% of it's original price. I'm happy to support australian when it's made in australia.... but it's not, its made cheaper overseas and marked up 200% when it crosses australian borders. Anyhoo, a long standing rant of mine and probably off topic.
edit: no, i'm on a rant and there's no stopping me! We know what the cost to create it is in america vs australia.... that's the rate of exchange. Yes, they get lesser income there, and have lesser expenses. And when you translate that into australian dollars, the value is $200. Yet to buy the same thing, made overseas and merely shipped here and stored in a warehouse..... costs $400. That's not paying it's fair worth - that's the FU tax you get for living in australia. /rant
Torga_DW wrote: But.... the watch wasn't made in australia.... It was made in america, or more likely china. The australian merchants weren't charging more because they had to pay to have it created here. It was sitting on a shelf in their stores, or in their warehouse, and that doesn't cost 200% of it's original price. I'm happy to support australian when it's made in australia.... but it's not, its made cheaper overseas and marked up 200% when it crosses australian borders. Anyhoo, a long standing rant of mine and probably off topic.
edit: no, i'm on a rant and there's no stopping me! We know what the cost to create it is in america vs australia.... that's the rate of exchange. Yes, they get lesser income there, and have lesser expenses. And when you translate that into australian dollars, the value is $200. Yet to buy the same thing, made overseas and merely shipped here and stored in a warehouse..... costs $400. That's not paying it's fair worth - that's the FU tax you get for living in australia. /rant
I think you misunderstood... I said retailer not developer (someone who sells products not creates them). Any hoo, I think this is way off topic as well so won't comment on this aspect anymore.
I think SoB will only get rules/strateg/warlord/relics etc no new models+ what said before:
Another generic HQ (which I think is pretty much guaranteed) Either will be a Prioress (Like a Chapter master upgrade) or a Palatine (maybe re-roll wounds of 1 or something similar).
Weapons:
Cheaper eviscerator (12pts)
Cheaper melta weapons (heck I would say cheaper melta/multi, flamer/heavy and heavy bolters cause we specialise in the three and that's all)
Infantry:
Canoness: jump pack (17pts)
Imagifier down in points (35pts)
Celestian squad: give them some cc options or something
Repentia: can advance and still charge, make their SoF re-rollable
Vehicles:
Simulacrum Imperialis upgrade to vehicles (35 pts): As in still does exact same thing as a imagifier (AoF on any SoB infantry within 6" on a 4+ etc) just can be upgraded that a vehicle can cast it on the SoB infantry.
Exorcist: D6 damage
However, it's in the air, let's hope GW sub comes to pressure and makes plastic (so long as my existing army looks coherent).
Melissia wrote: I'd prefer something more platemail lke, but as long as it's similar to what the redone Celestine (as opposed to the obnoxious nipple-spike canoness model, or the skull-fethed stupid heeled "not actually wearing power armor" blanchian crap) I don't mind. It's quite an iconic design for Sisters, so I'm not gonna be upset at no major changes to the armor design.
I will be upset at no major changes to our army list. We really need new units, new -stuff-.
I actually like that "Skull-fethed stupid heeled" model
drbored 740222 9636037 wrote:
A. OF COURSE POPULARITY OF SISTERS IS DOWN, THEY HAVE THE OLDEST LINE THAT'S STILL METAL. Polls involving current players of 40k are going to put Sisters dead last because of the cost of getting into the army and the age of the models. Update those models and they'll shoot up the list immediately.
Dr. Temujin wrote: I just talked to a friend of mine who works at a GW store. He said Sisters of Battle are not happening anytime soon. I quote:
"Yeah, i dont see them being worked on until after everything has a Codex"
The reasons for this are a, once again, "financial risk" atm, because there's not enough guarantee that enough people would actually buy plastic Sisters, despite all the wishlisting, hard-core players, and newer players waiting to buy some.
Luciferian wrote: ...Every poll or survey I've ever seen has the popularity of Sisters loafing around last place, usually tied or trading around with Khorne Daemonkin and Harlequins. Though that might be reason for hope in itself because Harlequins got new models and a codex last edition.
This. Right now, there's still not enough support for them to be considered a good trade of time and resources.
As others have stated in this thread and many, many others, I'd drop everything I was working on hobby-wise if GeeDubs suddenly announced a new codex with a brand-new line of shiny plastic. Until then, I'm more than happy starting up a Death Guard army.
A. OF COURSE POPULARITY OF SISTERS IS DOWN, THEY HAVE THE OLDEST LINE THAT'S STILL METAL. Polls involving current players of 40k are going to put Sisters dead last because of the cost of getting into the army and the age of the models. Update those models and they'll shoot up the list immediately.
B. Dark Eldar were a 'financial risk' as well, but ended up being a MASSIVE success. Also, Primaris and Death Guard, their two poster children, have just been released, which means GW is floating on a huge boat of cash. Now would be the time to take a financial risk because they've got the Primaris/Death Guard cushion to catch them if it fails. Waiting until all of the other Codexes have been released is the WORST time to take a risk because other factions that aren't as popular would have been updated and wouldn't have earned them as much money, meaning there's no 'cash boat' to float on any more.
People talkin' about business like they know how it works, smh.
Dude, calm down. I'm not trying to refute any points, just passing along what my friend said.
Dr. Temujin wrote: I just talked to a friend of mine who works at a GW store. He said Sisters of Battle are not happening anytime soon. I quote:
"Yeah, i dont see them being worked on until after everything has a Codex"
The reasons for this are a, once again, "financial risk" atm, because there's not enough guarantee that enough people would actually buy plastic Sisters, despite all the wishlisting, hard-core players, and newer players waiting to buy some.
Luciferian wrote: ...Every poll or survey I've ever seen has the popularity of Sisters loafing around last place, usually tied or trading around with Khorne Daemonkin and Harlequins. Though that might be reason for hope in itself because Harlequins got new models and a codex last edition.
This. Right now, there's still not enough support for them to be considered a good trade of time and resources.
As others have stated in this thread and many, many others, I'd drop everything I was working on hobby-wise if GeeDubs suddenly announced a new codex with a brand-new line of shiny plastic. Until then, I'm more than happy starting up a Death Guard army.
A. OF COURSE POPULARITY OF SISTERS IS DOWN, THEY HAVE THE OLDEST LINE THAT'S STILL METAL. Polls involving current players of 40k are going to put Sisters dead last because of the cost of getting into the army and the age of the models. Update those models and they'll shoot up the list immediately.
B. Dark Eldar were a 'financial risk' as well, but ended up being a MASSIVE success. Also, Primaris and Death Guard, their two poster children, have just been released, which means GW is floating on a huge boat of cash. Now would be the time to take a financial risk because they've got the Primaris/Death Guard cushion to catch them if it fails. Waiting until all of the other Codexes have been released is the WORST time to take a risk because other factions that aren't as popular would have been updated and wouldn't have earned them as much money, meaning there's no 'cash boat' to float on any more.
People talkin' about business like they know how it works, smh.
Dude, calm down. I'm not trying to refute any points, just passing along what my friend said.
Sorry boss, I'm very passionate about this topic because I REALLY REALLY REALLY want Sisters of Battle. I feel like if I wish hard enough, they'll suddenly appear.
This isn't the first time I've done this either, to be honest. At least two separate occassions in the past when Sisters rumors were coming about (one about 4 years ago, another like 6 or 7 years ago) and I got similarly wrapped up in this hurricane of hype.
It's been a long, exhausting road to nowhere.
The funny thing is that even just with the Index, there are a few Sisters lists that are currently quite viable, using Celestine obviously, but also using Repressors and Immolators, and lots and lots of Battle Sisters. Even with their 3+ save, Battle Sisters are cheaper points-wise than Scions, and can pump out a ton of shots with Storm Bolters and the extra shooting Act of Faith. A blob squad of 20 Sisters is real hard to shift. But who has 250 dollars to get that blob and enough Storm Bolters to make it? With that same 250 you can get the Dark Imperium set, a Redemptor, and a few other bits and bobs for a brand new Primaris force.
This is why Sisters aren't popular. Even if GW had all of their options available in some metal model, they're still a difficult faction to get into.
Dr. Temujin wrote: I just talked to a friend of mine who works at a GW store. He said Sisters of Battle are not happening anytime soon. I quote:
"Yeah, i dont see them being worked on until after everything has a Codex"
The reasons for this are a, once again, "financial risk" atm, because there's not enough guarantee that enough people would actually buy plastic Sisters, despite all the wishlisting, hard-core players, and newer players waiting to buy some.
Luciferian wrote: ...Every poll or survey I've ever seen has the popularity of Sisters loafing around last place, usually tied or trading around with Khorne Daemonkin and Harlequins. Though that might be reason for hope in itself because Harlequins got new models and a codex last edition.
This. Right now, there's still not enough support for them to be considered a good trade of time and resources.
As others have stated in this thread and many, many others, I'd drop everything I was working on hobby-wise if GeeDubs suddenly announced a new codex with a brand-new line of shiny plastic. Until then, I'm more than happy starting up a Death Guard army.
A. OF COURSE POPULARITY OF SISTERS IS DOWN, THEY HAVE THE OLDEST LINE THAT'S STILL METAL. Polls involving current players of 40k are going to put Sisters dead last because of the cost of getting into the army and the age of the models. Update those models and they'll shoot up the list immediately.
B. Dark Eldar were a 'financial risk' as well, but ended up being a MASSIVE success. Also, Primaris and Death Guard, their two poster children, have just been released, which means GW is floating on a huge boat of cash. Now would be the time to take a financial risk because they've got the Primaris/Death Guard cushion to catch them if it fails. Waiting until all of the other Codexes have been released is the WORST time to take a risk because other factions that aren't as popular would have been updated and wouldn't have earned them as much money, meaning there's no 'cash boat' to float on any more.
People talkin' about business like they know how it works, smh.
Dude, calm down. I'm not trying to refute any points, just passing along what my friend said.
Sorry boss, I'm very passionate about this topic because I REALLY REALLY REALLY want Sisters of Battle. I feel like if I wish hard enough, they'll suddenly appear.
This isn't the first time I've done this either, to be honest. At least two separate occassions in the past when Sisters rumors were coming about (one about 4 years ago, another like 6 or 7 years ago) and I got similarly wrapped up in this hurricane of hype.
It's been a long, exhausting road to nowhere.
OMG have you even played SoB... 4 years...7 years... SoB are an endless Crusade... (I bought them when they first came out and I walked 7miles in the snow to get a sandwich... (seriously I did collect them when they first came out and my neck beard is long)... DO I care if get plastic no (because I have collected them so long I have every unit I want, + landraiders converted and flyers etc even a bloody baneblade... do I want more rules yes, models.. meh.. but if it.. (edit to crass, just hope they make plastic to make people happy).
@dr bored: No worries, I get where you're coming from.
And yeah, it's a sad Catch-22 situation with Sisters. There's obviously support for Sisters, but GW wants to see people buy more of the current models first. But the current models are metal, old, and, most importantly, damn-near prohibitively expensive.
Not sure about the Dark Eldar thing or why they got a nice reboot, though. I'll have to ask him about that.
As my GW friend has told me before, they simply follow the money. If a faction doesn't show a lot of revenue, it won't get as much support.
What's wild to me is how freakin' easy it would be.
You could make....five? units with a single kit.
You need: Three special weapons (melta, flamer, storm bolter), maybe 2 of each option.
Two heavy weapons (Multi-melta, heavy bolter), 2 of each.
10 bolters.
and a couple sets of melee weapons/pistols (bolt pistol/hand flamer, power sword, power maul, condemnor boltgun)
Make that kit, with a multitude of head swaps, and you've got Celestians, Dominions, Retributors, Battle Sisters, and a basic walking Canoness in one single box. Throw in the imagifier and the Dialogus if you include a banner arm with swappable top.
Then you've got what? A rhino-based kit (makes either Immolator, Exorcist, maybe Repressor), that's dirt cheap to make since it includes the good old rhino base sprue, and you can charge 66 bucks for it.
A walker kit, with a penitent engine and a new unit that's basically just a weapon swap. Walker kits always sell really well, safe investment.
A jump pack kit, with the normal pistol Seraphim and a new armswap/headswap unit, as well as a couple add on bits to make a jump canoness.
And a footslogging melee unit kit, with Repentia and a new armswap/headswap unit or alternatively arco-flagellants.
Four kits, not even any clampacks. Done. Less risk than even the Genestealer Cult release, because you can so heavily multi-use the basic troop box and you can use the existing rhino sprue for the one big vehicle.
Dr. Temujin wrote: @dr bored: No worries, I get where you're coming from.
And yeah, it's a sad Catch-22 situation with Sisters. There's obviously support for Sisters, but GW wants to see people buy more of the current models first. But the current models are metal, old, and, most importantly, damn-near prohibitively expensive.
Not sure about the Dark Eldar thing or why they got a nice reboot, though. I'll have to ask him about that.
As my GW friend has told me before, they simply follow the money. If a faction doesn't show a lot of revenue, it won't get as much support.
The GW manager at my store said straight up "They're not doing sisters, and if they did, it'd be one unit in a box to see how well it sells and that's it." But, again, as everyone keeps saying, what do these guys know? Do they say these things to mislead or not?
the_scotsman wrote:
What's wild to me is how freakin' easy it would be.
You could make....five? units with a single kit.
You need: Three special weapons (melta, flamer, storm bolter), maybe 2 of each option.
Two heavy weapons (Multi-melta, heavy bolter), 2 of each.
10 bolters.
and a couple sets of melee weapons/pistols (bolt pistol/hand flamer, power sword, power maul, condemnor boltgun)
Make that kit, with a multitude of head swaps, and you've got Celestians, Dominions, Retributors, Battle Sisters, and a basic walking Canoness in one single box. Throw in the imagifier and the Dialogus if you include a banner arm with swappable top.
Then you've got what? A rhino-based kit (makes either Immolator, Exorcist, maybe Repressor), that's dirt cheap to make since it includes the good old rhino base sprue, and you can charge 66 bucks for it.
A walker kit, with a penitent engine and a new unit that's basically just a weapon swap. Walker kits always sell really well, safe investment.
A jump pack kit, with the normal pistol Seraphim and a new armswap/headswap unit, as well as a couple add on bits to make a jump canoness.
And a footslogging melee unit kit, with Repentia and a new armswap/headswap unit or alternatively arco-flagellants.
Four kits, not even any clampacks. Done. Less risk than even the Genestealer Cult release, because you can so heavily multi-use the basic troop box and you can use the existing rhino sprue for the one big vehicle.
Yep. You could do the immolator/exorcist in a single frame upgrade kit to the rhino, or add it to the rhino and rebox. You could do all the troops except the Seraphim and Repentia in one box, with maybe an upgrade clampack for other more specialized units with extra special weapons, standards, and whatnot. They could do the release as simply as you say, with boxes that make lots of different things, like the Mechanicus release, where everything was dual-unit boxes with weapon and head swaps.
Alas, here we are.
Even if these rumors are true, we won't know for another 3-5 months. :/
Dr. Temujin wrote: @dr bored: No worries, I get where you're coming from.
And yeah, it's a sad Catch-22 situation with Sisters. There's obviously support for Sisters, but GW wants to see people buy more of the current models first. But the current models are metal, old, and, most importantly, damn-near prohibitively expensive.
Not sure about the Dark Eldar thing or why they got a nice reboot, though. I'll have to ask him about that.
As my GW friend has told me before, they simply follow the money. If a faction doesn't show a lot of revenue, it won't get as much support.
The GW manager at my store said straight up "They're not doing sisters, and if they did, it'd be one unit in a box to see how well it sells and that's it." But, again, as everyone keeps saying, what do these guys know? Do they say these things to mislead or not?
the_scotsman wrote:
What's wild to me is how freakin' easy it would be.
You could make....five? units with a single kit.
You need: Three special weapons (melta, flamer, storm bolter), maybe 2 of each option.
Two heavy weapons (Multi-melta, heavy bolter), 2 of each.
10 bolters.
and a couple sets of melee weapons/pistols (bolt pistol/hand flamer, power sword, power maul, condemnor boltgun)
Make that kit, with a multitude of head swaps, and you've got Celestians, Dominions, Retributors, Battle Sisters, and a basic walking Canoness in one single box. Throw in the imagifier and the Dialogus if you include a banner arm with swappable top.
Then you've got what? A rhino-based kit (makes either Immolator, Exorcist, maybe Repressor), that's dirt cheap to make since it includes the good old rhino base sprue, and you can charge 66 bucks for it.
A walker kit, with a penitent engine and a new unit that's basically just a weapon swap. Walker kits always sell really well, safe investment.
A jump pack kit, with the normal pistol Seraphim and a new armswap/headswap unit, as well as a couple add on bits to make a jump canoness.
And a footslogging melee unit kit, with Repentia and a new armswap/headswap unit or alternatively arco-flagellants.
Four kits, not even any clampacks. Done. Less risk than even the Genestealer Cult release, because you can so heavily multi-use the basic troop box and you can use the existing rhino sprue for the one big vehicle.
Yep. You could do the immolator/exorcist in a single frame upgrade kit to the rhino, or add it to the rhino and rebox. You could do all the troops except the Seraphim and Repentia in one box, with maybe an upgrade clampack for other more specialized units with extra special weapons, standards, and whatnot. They could do the release as simply as you say, with boxes that make lots of different things, like the Mechanicus release, where everything was dual-unit boxes with weapon and head swaps.
Alas, here we are.
Even if these rumors are true, we won't know for another 3-5 months. :/
There is absolutely no reason why GW would need to sell off old metal models before releasing plastics when they could just melt down any imaginary over stock of Sisters figs and move the metal to a multitude of manufacturers who could use the material. The fact that SoB players have burned through every model in the line to make them out of stock worldwide several times in the last few years is proof that this ridiculous idea has nothing whatsoever to do with why plastic SoB haven't hit the shelves.
Holy Trinity, Don't forget the heavy flamer...
I just don't see the huge wave of rumors pushing towards a new fig release. GW already tried the one box of plastics, how did it do on the market? As far as the rumors go, they said at the beginning of 8th that everyone would be getting a codex, what ten by the end of 17? So the rumors are only pointing towards the first one of 18 having Sisters in it. GW already said they would be getting one, so I just don't see a sudden push for plastic Sisters. Saying they want to represent more women in the game also doesn't mean that plastic Sisters are imminent. Women =/= Sisters of Battle.
If expensive metal models are keeping Sisters from being FOM, I am fine with that. Plastic Sisters mean nothing to me, and 40k will do just fine without them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
NenkotaMoon wrote: Who is gonna like an army they don't play and can't afford and is shown to need saving or be rather weak at times.
40k doesn't really need any of its factions except Space Marines to turn a buck. The rest of the armies in 40k are there just to provide context for the Space Marines. They don't need Imperial Guard because there are Space Marines. They don't need Eldar or Tau or Orks or Necron because there are Space Marines. If anything, Horus Heresy proved that gamers are willing to play a game with nothing but Space Marines, setting aside every other faction in the game just to play with more Space Marines and more flavors of Space Marines (that many of those HH players are begging GW to get rules for 40k).
You are right, though, they can melt that pewter down and sell it off to anyone willing to buy it off of their hands, recouping much of any loss that they would have suffered from molding the models in the first place.
However, Sisters of Battle would bring a variety to the tabletop that we haven't seen. Factions like Dark Eldar, Genestealer Cult, Adeptus Mechanicus, and even Deathwatch have all brought something new to the table that we haven't seen before, and fans have been loving it. All of these 'small unpopular factions' are critical to building the lore and variety on the table.
So that we're not all just playing a bunch of different colored Space Marines.
A relevant question here is:
Why, if they are needing to shift so much back stock, are they resupplying with more metal sisters? Surely once they ran out the first time they should have started moving over to plasric, or something else.
Personally I think the 'metal sister backlog' is just another smoke cloud, but whatever.
master of ordinance wrote: A relevant question here is:
Why, if they are needing to shift so much back stock, are they resupplying with more metal sisters? Surely once they ran out the first time they should have started moving over to plasric, or something else.
Personally I think the 'metal sister backlog' is just another smoke cloud, but whatever.
I agree. It really comes down to planning the release of the plastic sisters. Up until they release those sisters, they have the metal and they have the molds. As long as the molds are still in one piece, then they can keep ordering more pewter. It's a cheap metal that many miniatures companies use.
The real reason they keep restocking the metal models is because they don't yet have a release date for them in their schedule of every other faction.
But, eventually, it will happen.
---
Also, news update, Shieldwolf Miniatures did get a CnD from 'a certain company' but they believed the notices to be fake, according to their lawyers. There were other factors as well. More here:
master of ordinance wrote: A relevant question here is:
Why, if they are needing to shift so much back stock, are they resupplying with more metal sisters? Surely once they ran out the first time they should have started moving over to plasric, or something else.
Personally I think the 'metal sister backlog' is just another smoke cloud, but whatever.
Good question. ARE they resupplying with more metal sisters? Given that everything else moved to resin. I've read online that gw have engaged in not-so-good practices in the past (gorkamorka in other languages comes to mind). What if they ARE sitting on a massive stockpile of metal sisters?
You wouldn't need a big stockpile if they weren't selling. I'm genuinely curious - why would gw continue to restock an item in metal after their big shift to resin? I can't think of a plausible answer other than the obvious, and would genuinely like to hear an alternative.
drbored wrote: The GW manager at my store said straight up "They're not doing sisters, and if they did
You can stop right here. “They don't and if they did […]” is coded “I don't have any information and I'm just giving my opinion”. And who cares about someone else's uninformed opinion unless they got at least a strong reasoning to back it up?
Torga_DW wrote: why would gw continue to restock an item in metal after their big shift to resin?
Well, why would they have models “temporarily out of stock” if they had big stockpiles of them?
My guess for your question is that converting the molds for resin is still expensive and not worth it for items with so low number of sales as Sisters.
Sisters of Battle has become such a long running joke at this point.
Hell it wasn't too long ago that GW basically confirmed plastic Sisters in one one their videos.
Then we got Celestine and.......nothing.
I don't believe that bollocks about bringing out new Sisters models would be a financial risk.
Bringing out new Genestealer Cult models must of been an exponentially bigger risk and that still happened.
Torga_DW wrote: You wouldn't need a big stockpile if they weren't selling. I'm genuinely curious - why would gw continue to restock an item in metal after their big shift to resin? I can't think of a plausible answer other than the obvious, and would genuinely like to hear an alternative.
Im 100% sure they have limited models of metal sitting around, i mean we can see that from the past and even more-so now that they dont make a large amounts of units very fast (all the out of stock units).
My Wife, me, and many friends works in large (and i mean millions of units per week) companies, and even tho they are bumping out these large numbers, they only have a few machines and 8-15 works on each one. Companies want more money, they are not going to have a machine per each faction, its more likely one for finecast and 1 or 2 for plastics. They most likely are swapping out parts for the spur injections.
I dont know for sure b.c i dont work with them, just showing my experience.
dan2026 wrote: Sisters of Battle has become such a long running joke at this point.
Hell it wasn't too long ago that GW basically confirmed plastic Sisters in one one their videos.
Then we got Celestine and.......nothing.
I don't believe that bollocks about bringing out new Sisters models would be a financial risk.
Bringing out new Genestealer Cult models must of been an exponentially bigger risk and that still happened.
Its still a risk tho. And its hard to get investors to take multi-risks at a time. They are most likely being held back by investors that dont know anything but 10-20 yr old financial figures based on nothing else and no knowledge of the communities wants.
40k doesn't really need any of its factions except Space Marines to turn a buck. The rest of the armies in 40k are there just to provide context for the Space Marines. They don't need Imperial Guard because there are Space Marines. They don't need Eldar or Tau or Orks or Necron because there are Space Marines. If anything, Horus Heresy proved that gamers are willing to play a game with nothing but Space Marines, setting aside every other faction in the game just to play with more Space Marines and more flavors of Space Marines (that many of those HH players are begging GW to get rules for 40k).
You are right, though, they can melt that pewter down and sell it off to anyone willing to buy it off of their hands, recouping much of any loss that they would have suffered from molding the models in the first place.
However, Sisters of Battle would bring a variety to the tabletop that we haven't seen. Factions like Dark Eldar, Genestealer Cult, Adeptus Mechanicus, and even Deathwatch have all brought something new to the table that we haven't seen before, and fans have been loving it. All of these 'small unpopular factions' are critical to building the lore and variety on the table.
So that we're not all just playing a bunch of different colored Space Marines.
Huh? What does that have to do with the rumors that SoB are getting the first Dex of 2018? Or even that GW has decided to make an effort to put more representations of women on the table top? Like most of the factions in 8ed a dex doesn't necessarily mean they are getting new models. If GW is looking to add a greater percentage of female models to their range SoB are literally the last place to do that. The actual Sisters list is, you know, full of female models. Ministorum lsts could have a few units get female options, but those units aren't SoB units anyways.
GW making the effort to produce more female models is more likely to result in female Tau, AdMech, AM, maybe even Orks than it is likely to give you plastic Sisters. Going off the word of GW store staff and the idea that Sisters would only be represented on the table top if they were plastic =/= plastic Sisters.
40k doesn't really need any of its factions except Space Marines to turn a buck. The rest of the armies in 40k are there just to provide context for the Space Marines. They don't need Imperial Guard because there are Space Marines. They don't need Eldar or Tau or Orks or Necron because there are Space Marines. If anything, Horus Heresy proved that gamers are willing to play a game with nothing but Space Marines, setting aside every other faction in the game just to play with more Space Marines and more flavors of Space Marines (that many of those HH players are begging GW to get rules for 40k).
You are right, though, they can melt that pewter down and sell it off to anyone willing to buy it off of their hands, recouping much of any loss that they would have suffered from molding the models in the first place.
However, Sisters of Battle would bring a variety to the tabletop that we haven't seen. Factions like Dark Eldar, Genestealer Cult, Adeptus Mechanicus, and even Deathwatch have all brought something new to the table that we haven't seen before, and fans have been loving it. All of these 'small unpopular factions' are critical to building the lore and variety on the table.
So that we're not all just playing a bunch of different colored Space Marines.
Huh? What does that have to do with the rumors that SoB are getting the first Dex of 2018? Or even that GW has decided to make an effort to put more representations of women on the table top? Like most of the factions in 8ed a dex doesn't necessarily mean they are getting new models. If GW is looking to add a greater percentage of female models to their range SoB are literally the last place to do that. The actual Sisters list is, you know, full of female models. Ministorum lsts could have a few units get female options, but those units aren't SoB units anyways.
GW making the effort to produce more female models is more likely to result in female Tau, AdMech, AM, maybe even Orks than it is likely to give you plastic Sisters. Going off the word of GW store staff and the idea that Sisters would only be represented on the table top if they were plastic =/= plastic Sisters.
That doesn't make any sense to me.
If GW really wanted to increase the amount of female representation in their game SoB would be the first place to start.
What would be better than having a whole faction that is 99% women?
At the moment it looks especially bad as SoB have been so ignored and marginalised for so long.
Its all too easy at the moment to say that GW don't give two gaks about more female models in their game.
If SoB had a new complete model range and a new book, GW could say 'look we have changed, we have gone full force behind female representation, we ARE listening to the players and this proves it!'
That doesn't make any sense to me.
If GW really wanted to increase the amount of female representation in their game SoB would be the first place to start.
What would be better than having a whole faction that is 99% women?
At the moment it looks especially bad as SoB have been so ignored and marginalised for so long.
Its all too easy at the moment to say that GW don't give two gaks about more female models in their game.
If SoB had a new complete model range and a new book, GW could say 'look we have changed, we have gone full force behind female representation, we ARE listening to the players and this proves it!'
Sisters are a faction in the game. You can purchase the models and they are supported with a reasonably competitive index list.
Giving more female models to an all female faction doesn't help possible female players associate with 40k more than SoB has already done that since '97. A faction of Penitent Battle Nuns doesn't appeal to every woman who sees them. GW is looking to get more females buying their product, they would get better results spreading those efforts around to all of the factions who are nearly 100% male or even adding viable female characters to those factions who have a larger percentage of female models like the Eldar do. My college age daughter has been around my Sisters models her entire life and they have never once drawn any interest from her like my howlng banshee or wych elves have done.
Sure GW hasn't done terribly well drawing in female gamers in the past. Hopefully their effort will lead to more female players. The effort and the need for it doesn't mean you will be 100% seeing plastic SoB when the dex drops. From looking at the rumors of late I look forward to SoB possibly getting a codex of one form or another (might be in an Imperial Agents form) sometime next year. Didn't we already know that though when GW said every faction is getting a dex? As far as the GW post about female models I can see them listening and putting forth effort to include females when I see the Escher gang included in the Necromunda starter box.
I'm not white knighting for GW, and I am not entirely happy with how an army I have played in every edition since they were released is being handled by GW. I just don't see the leap of logic being made by some in this thread from what we are hearing from the rumor mill.
Actually, having plastic Sisters would mean GW would actually finally start stocking Sisters in their brick and mortar stores again, and new players would think GW is introducing a brand new faction, because GW is a bunch of incompetent buffoons when it comes to marketing and there's a number of players who don't really go online much for their 40k hobby who honestly don't know Sisters even exist. In the past, I was actually accused of making gak up when I bought my pdf codex of sisters of battle with me along with my miniatures, they accused me of using third party models and making up an entire weird army list on my own. Lol.
Melissia wrote: Actually, having plastic Sisters would mean GW would actually finally start stocking Sisters in their brick and mortar stores again, and new players would think GW is introducing a brand new faction, because GW is a bunch of incompetent buffoons when it comes to marketing.
I like it, but it would be funnier if GW did a NEW release of the good old metal Sisters models in boxes that could sit heavily on store shelves.
Like I have said before, plastic Sisters models won't make a difference to me. I just don't see the current rumors adding up to their imminent arrival.
At the same time the way GW has handled Sisters in the past makes a possible army wide overhaul release problematic.
I would be quite happy with them moving Imagifers to HQ, allowing them wargear and different banner effects, then giving Veridyan her own rules again. My 12 stormbolter girls arrived yesterday from GW (woohoo I have 45 now) so I am good.
I just don't see how a moderately sized plastic release for SoB is any more of a risk for GW than say GS Cults or bringing back Blood Bowl or Necromunda or anything not as well known from the past like that.
But then I would of thought GW would have done new Sisters models years ago considering how much everyone shouts about wanting them.
But then I feel I don't have a good handle on the way GW operates anyway.
It makes sense to me. But maybe not to them. I dunno.
Well that alone is reason to believe that they might do a plastic release sometime even if we have no idea when that might be. Every so often they do release new plastic kits for an obscure army (and make no mistake, SoB is very obscure at the current moment for obvious reasons).
I don't see any reason they wouldn't ever do a release, given their past behavior. The only real question is when, and the only answer that any of us have is, "not right now".
I went in to my local GW and talked to the guy. He's been in the business a long time and has always been very frank with me.
For context, this is a guy that said "Anyone that tells you that sisters sold well at any point is lying to you. If anything, the'll get a single test kit and that'll be it." He was pretty adamant about that.
Today, I got in and his tune had changed a little. He mentioned the Sisters of Silence, the leak-culling of the new CEO, and told me that if GW was going to do Sisters, they might try to do a box set that would help test the waters while curbing risk. We had a good long conversation, and he even mentioned an old hastings rumor that pointed to January 2018 being when Sisters might happen, and how hastings has been really solid, up until the leak lockdown.
I feel a bit more emboldened. Likely he was just trying to keep my spirits up, and I appreciate that a lot, since I bothered the crap out of him about it. XD
TheCustomLime wrote: Rumors of a big updated Sisters of Battle release have been thrown around ever since I got into Warhammer 40,000. Almost every year, actually.
TheCustomLime wrote: Rumors of a big updated Sisters of Battle release have been thrown around ever since I got into Warhammer 40,000. Almost every year, actually.
And I keep coming back, with faith that someday they'll have a new plastic line that will empty my wallets. I will always have hope for a Sisters of Battle release, no matter how political, no matter how their design changes, no matter what their rules are, because I love the faction, the lore, and the characters.
TheCustomLime wrote: Until I see a picture of a plastic Sister of Battle I will flat out refuse to believe any rumor. Even if it's grainy af and looks like a conversion.
TheCustomLime wrote: Until I see a picture of a plastic Sister of Battle I will flat out refuse to believe any rumor. Even if it's grainy af and looks like a conversion.
TheCustomLime wrote: Until I see a picture of a plastic Sister of Battle I will flat out refuse to believe any rumor. Even if it's grainy af and looks like a conversion.
I think people keep forgetting that this is a plastic Sisters of Battle model.
We really are just waiting for the rest of the line. That's all.
Celestine is an Imperial Soup model. :p
"Imperial Soup" means nothing. That's not a GW term, it's not a business strategy, it's not a release strategy. It's a meme that the 40k community invented to describe a certain kind of list that players are salty about.
Celestine and her Geminae are in plastic. Veridyan is in resin and did better than expected (so good, the model went from limited release to staying in production).
The one mistake GW made is in lumping Celestine with two other models not related to Sisters of Battle. If Celestine was on her own, people would have bought her for her rules, for her style, for the challenge of painting/building/converting, etc. GW would have gotten a better idea of how popular the range /could/ be.
We are just waiting for the rest of the army to find a spot in GW's release schedule.
This is a way older plastic Sister of Battle model. Sitting in a tank. From 2003. So what? I'm pretty sure TheCustomLine has seen this model already, and then waited the 13 years between this plastic sister of battle model release and the next plastic sister of battle model release and therefore (rightfully) doesn't believe that plastic Saint Celestine release implies any other plastic sisters of battle are going to be released any time soon. What he meant was that he will refuse to believe any rumor unless there is a picture of the models rumored to be released. Which is very sensible.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
drbored wrote: We are just waiting for the rest of the army to find a spot in GW's release schedule.
Watch as that spot is taken by the Magnificum Primaris Marines which are like the marines but bigger and better. Or by the twelve different Chaos Marine codex that GW seem dedicated to make to match the twelve different loyalist marines codex. Or by the Kroot mercenaries, which would definitely be better than moar marines. Or by the squats. Or by literally anything that GW can think of. I mean, Sisters of Silence got a spot before us. There really is no way GW will find a spot for Sisters at this rate.
Actually, "Imperial Soup" does have meaning in this context. Because when they released that new Celestine model, they did so in a way that, at the time, literally removed Celestine from the Sisters of Battle codex, and instead gave her to all Imperial factions.
Melissia wrote: Actually, "Imperial Soup" does have meaning in this context. Because when they released that new Celestine model, they did so in a way that, at the time, literally removed Celestine from the Sisters of Battle codex, and instead gave her to all Imperial factions.
That doesn't make any sense. Celestine is still part of the Sisters of Battle, but like many characters, she has the 'Imperium' keyword. It's like saying they took Marneus Calgar away from Ultramarine and gave them to everyone because he, too, has the Imperium keyword.
Yes, Imperium has a lot of allies. Yes, you can do a lot of shenanigans. No, Celestine having the Imperium keyword does not take her away from the Sisters of Battle Codex or prove that they are not going to update the line.
Is not only that her has the Imperium keyword (In 7th there was no keywords), but the fact that she, like Guilliman, has buffs that affect all Imperial units, not only SoB.
Marneus Calgar is a Ultramarine character, but for example Guilliman is in fact a "imperial soup" character. Personally I don't find a problem with that, it allows to reflect in the tabletop the cohesive style of fighting of the imperium.
But Melissia is right, it was obvious why they did it with Celestine in 7th. If she had only SoB rules, the potential of customers would be very small. With buffs for Imperial units, she was basically a usable character to something like 85% of the playerbase.
Melissia wrote: Actually, "Imperial Soup" does have meaning in this context. Because when they released that new Celestine model, they did so in a way that, at the time, literally removed Celestine from the Sisters of Battle codex, and instead gave her to all Imperial factions.
That doesn't make any sense.
You didn't pay attention to what I actually typed.
In all codices since 3rd edition, Sisters had Celestine. Then, in the last Sisters codex-- Imperial Agents of 7th edition-- Celestine was removed.
Later on, the "Triumvirate of the Imperium" came out with Celestine. When she came out, she was not a part of the Sisters codex any more, and the Sisters no longer had any named characters.
This "Triumvirate" was literally the start of the "Imperial Soup" that we saw in full form in 8th edition.
Yes, she was added back to Sisters in the Index. But the history still remains.
Melissia wrote: Actually, "Imperial Soup" does have meaning in this context. Because when they released that new Celestine model, they did so in a way that, at the time, literally removed Celestine from the Sisters of Battle codex, and instead gave her to all Imperial factions.
That doesn't make any sense.
You didn't pay attention to what I actually typed.
In all codices since 3rd edition, Sisters had Celestine. Then, in the last Sisters codex-- Imperial Agents of 7th edition-- Celestine was removed.
Later on, the "Triumvirate of the Imperium" came out with Celestine. When she came out, she was not a part of the Sisters codex any more, and the Sisters no longer had any named characters.
This "Triumvirate" was literally the start of the "Imperial Soup" that we saw in full form in 8th edition.
Yes, she was added back to Sisters in the Index. But the history still remains.
That history has a lot less meaning now that she's back in. We're moving forward, she's in the Codex, she's a plastic Sister of Battle, and we're waiting for the rest of the plastic army to come in. Where is the break in logic?
The break in the logic is that 'imperial soup' doesn't exist because it's not an official gw term, marketing or release strategy. Just because it was coined by apparently salty players, doesn't mean it's not valid or relevant to the game.
Edit: my bad, you said had imperial soup had no meaning. Which is different, although not very.
Torga_DW wrote: The break in the logic is that 'imperial soup' doesn't exist because it's not an official gw term, marketing or release strategy. Just because it was coined by apparently salty players, doesn't mean it's not valid or relevant to the game.
Edit: my bad, you said had imperial soup had no meaning. Which is different, although not very.
"Imperial Soup" has no meaning to GW. Imperial Soup =/= no plastic sisters. This is what I'm trying to say.
We have plastic Celestine and her Geminae. We are just waiting for the rest of the plastic sisters to release.
There are rumors and tidbits that are pointing to January 2018 or around that timeframe. Here's hoping.
Bobby G has rules that buff non-ultramarine imperials. So i'd say imperial soup does have meaning for gw, even if they don't publically talk about it or call it that internally. Even if celestine is sitting back in the sisters list, she's still an iconic souper character available to all imperial chefs.
But yeah, imperial soup != no plastic sisters. I agree here.
Where you keep thinking that a codex release rumor for sisters in jan of 18 implies that they are getting plastics because GW wants more female representation in the future.
Where you keep thinking that a codex release rumor for sisters in jan of 18 implies that they are getting plastics because GW wants more female representation in the future.
That's a possibility. I think that there is going to be SoB plastics around Jan 2018 REGARDLESS of whether GW thinks that it's good for female representation. I think they're going to release them because they've been done for a while and they've finally found a slot to put them in.
Sorry to rain on your parade, but I wouldn't hold my breath until I saw something a little more substantial than hearsay from low-level GW employees who have no real connection to Nottingham. Is it likely that GW will release plastic Sisters some day? I'd say so. Is there any reason to believe that it will be in January 2018? Without any credible evidence, I'd say no.
Luciferian wrote: Sorry to rain on your parade, but I wouldn't hold my breath until I saw something a little more substantial than hearsay from low-level GW employees who have no real connection to Nottingham. Is it likely that GW will release plastic Sisters some day? I'd say so. Is there any reason to believe that it will be in January 2018? Without any credible evidence, I'd say no.
To me, you're just another naysayer, having fun naysaying. Yes, I know. I've been told a thousand times every time Sisters of Battle rumors come about. I'm familiar with disappointment. Thank you for adding your voice to the incredible clamor that are the naysayers.
And one day, when they do come out, I'll stand atop the naysayers and laugh as my wallet leaks green tears into the hands of GW just so I can build myself a house made entirely of plastic sisters of battle models and sprues.
Luciferian wrote: Sorry to rain on your parade, but I wouldn't hold my breath until I saw something a little more substantial than hearsay from low-level GW employees who have no real connection to Nottingham. Is it likely that GW will release plastic Sisters some day? I'd say so. Is there any reason to believe that it will be in January 2018? Without any credible evidence, I'd say no.
To me, you're just another naysayer, having fun naysaying. Yes, I know. I've been told a thousand times every time Sisters of Battle rumors come about. I'm familiar with disappointment. Thank you for adding your voice to the incredible clamor that are the naysayers.
And one day, when they do come out, I'll stand atop the naysayers and laugh as my wallet leaks green tears into the hands of GW just so I can build myself a house made entirely of plastic sisters of battle models and sprues.
Well, there's always someone saying something negative and if you wait long enough it comes true. To which no-one really cares at that point because it was just a matter of time. I guess the same could be applied to positive things as well - *today* is the day that trump astounds the world with his political acumen. If you want to laugh and leak money into gw, you could do that now. What makes plastic sisters better than metal sisters if you really love them that much? I doubt there'll be much price difference.
Luciferian wrote: Sorry to rain on your parade, but I wouldn't hold my breath until I saw something a little more substantial than hearsay from low-level GW employees who have no real connection to Nottingham. Is it likely that GW will release plastic Sisters some day? I'd say so. Is there any reason to believe that it will be in January 2018? Without any credible evidence, I'd say no.
To me, you're just another naysayer, having fun naysaying. Yes, I know. I've been told a thousand times every time Sisters of Battle rumors come about. I'm familiar with disappointment. Thank you for adding your voice to the incredible clamor that are the naysayers.
And one day, when they do come out, I'll stand atop the naysayers and laugh as my wallet leaks green tears into the hands of GW just so I can build myself a house made entirely of plastic sisters of battle models and sprues.
Well, there's always someone saying something negative and if you wait long enough it comes true. To which no-one really cares at that point because it was just a matter of time. I guess the same could be applied to positive things as well - *today* is the day that trump astounds the world with his political acumen. If you want to laugh and leak money into gw, you could do that now. What makes plastic sisters better than metal sisters if you really love them that much? I doubt there'll be much price difference.
You missed the mark entirely.
A. Sisters of Battle getting plastic models is inevitable. Other things, such as 'the sky is gunna be purple, I guarantee it!' are simply not factual and you look silly claiming them. I realize how hopeless hoping for Sisters of Battle is. People don't need to remind me on a daily basis. I'm the only person in this whole topic hounding on this topic. Have you noticed? The half dozen or so of you are literally just trying to convince me of your negativity. I am a beacon of hope for the Sisters of Battle and I'll be getting three of everything when the line finally comes out.
B. Metal models lack detail, convertability, and ease of building and painting that plastic models do. I'm amazed I even have to explain this.
C. I have metal sisters. I love them, but I can't wait to expand my force with plastic models. There will be a fantastic difference, probably in level of detail, size, and maybe even some new units that I don't have. I look forward to the painting challenge.
Luciferian wrote: Sorry to rain on your parade, but I wouldn't hold my breath until I saw something a little more substantial than hearsay from low-level GW employees who have no real connection to Nottingham. Is it likely that GW will release plastic Sisters some day? I'd say so. Is there any reason to believe that it will be in January 2018? Without any credible evidence, I'd say no.
To me, you're just another naysayer, having fun naysaying. Yes, I know. I've been told a thousand times every time Sisters of Battle rumors come about. I'm familiar with disappointment. Thank you for adding your voice to the incredible clamor that are the naysayers.
And one day, when they do come out, I'll stand atop the naysayers and laugh as my wallet leaks green tears into the hands of GW just so I can build myself a house made entirely of plastic sisters of battle models and sprues.
Well, there's always someone saying something negative and if you wait long enough it comes true. To which no-one really cares at that point because it was just a matter of time. I guess the same could be applied to positive things as well - *today* is the day that trump astounds the world with his political acumen. If you want to laugh and leak money into gw, you could do that now. What makes plastic sisters better than metal sisters if you really love them that much? I doubt there'll be much price difference.
You missed the mark entirely.
A. Sisters of Battle getting plastic models is inevitable. Other things, such as 'the sky is gunna be purple, I guarantee it!' are simply not factual and you look silly claiming them. I realize how hopeless hoping for Sisters of Battle is. People don't need to remind me on a daily basis. I'm the only person in this whole topic hounding on this topic. Have you noticed? The half dozen or so of you are literally just trying to convince me of your negativity. I am a beacon of hope for the Sisters of Battle and I'll be getting three of everything when the line finally comes out.
B. Metal models lack detail, convertability, and ease of building and painting that plastic models do. I'm amazed I even have to explain this.
C. I have metal sisters. I love them, but I can't wait to expand my force with plastic models. There will be a fantastic difference, probably in level of detail, size, and maybe even some new units that I don't have. I look forward to the painting challenge.
A. Something bad happening eventually is inevitable. Sisters going into plastic isn't. Hell, they could re-release squats at this point (omg i've been waiting since 2nd, it's inevitable!), length of time spent languishing doesn't increase odds of happening. But you're right in part, it could happen.
B. Metal models tend to have better detail than plastics. Get a frother to explain the differences, they're noticeable. Plastic models are more easily convertable, that's for certain. And cheaper to produce (although not cheaper to buy from gw). A 1-piece metal model is easier to build than a multi-piece plastic, and probably less difficult to paint (few gaps).
C. I honestly hope you get them. Why not? I just don't think it's inevitable. Possible? Probable? Sure, why not. But as i said earlier, why are they the only gw kit still available in metal when everything else went to resin? There's no fundamental difference. The only reason to makes sense to me is that they made a ton of them expecting them to sell, and they didn't. The line has shrunk over the years. But again, i'm quite happy to be wrong here. I don't lose anything if i am.
HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW PLASTICS??? Holy crap the new Triumvirate of the Imperium with Celestine and Greyfax is GORGEOUS. I have the metal models right next to them and there is NO COMPARISON in detail. Metal models are clunky and, yes, often only two pieces, which means even MORE detail is sacrificed! Sleves of the robes are just whole chunks of metal!
Meanwhile, Greyfax has incredibly intricate detail, and building the new plastic models is a JOY! I was FRUSTRATED when the only piece I had to put together on my metal sisters was the backpack. The rest of the model is all one piece and it's awful! I LOVE building! I can't wait for the plastics because I'm sure they will be a joy to build, with lots of different options and beautiful detail across the model.
Simply put, you are dead wrong about GW's metal models having more detail, or in any way being better, than their new plastics.
drbored wrote: B is the only thing I see fit to reply to.
HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW PLASTICS??? Holy crap the new Triumvirate of the Imperium with Celestine and Greyfax is GORGEOUS. I have the metal models right next to them and there is NO COMPARISON in detail. Metal models are clunky and, yes, often only two pieces, which means even MORE detail is sacrificed! Sleves of the robes are just whole chunks of metal!
Meanwhile, Greyfax has incredibly intricate detail, and building the new plastic models is a JOY! I was FRUSTRATED when the only piece I had to put together on my metal sisters was the backpack. The rest of the model is all one piece and it's awful! I LOVE building! I can't wait for the plastics because I'm sure they will be a joy to build, with lots of different options and beautiful detail across the model.
Simply put, you are dead wrong about GW's metal models having more detail, or in any way being better, than their new plastics.
Good for you, i'm happy to continue the discussion. You're comparing modern plastics to old metals? Again, get someone who is interested to explain the differences. Completely disregard me, i don't have a problem with that. If you're genuinely interested, seek out the information. It has to do with slides and undercuts and the like, which aren't of interest to me so i don't really pay attention other than to note it. But basically, you can make multi-part metals that are way better in detail than multi-part plastics. There are a few reasons to go with plastic (myself, i prefer plastic). But detail isn't one of them.
drbored wrote: B is the only thing I see fit to reply to.
HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW PLASTICS??? Holy crap the new Triumvirate of the Imperium with Celestine and Greyfax is GORGEOUS. I have the metal models right next to them and there is NO COMPARISON in detail. Metal models are clunky and, yes, often only two pieces, which means even MORE detail is sacrificed! Sleves of the robes are just whole chunks of metal!
Meanwhile, Greyfax has incredibly intricate detail, and building the new plastic models is a JOY! I was FRUSTRATED when the only piece I had to put together on my metal sisters was the backpack. The rest of the model is all one piece and it's awful! I LOVE building! I can't wait for the plastics because I'm sure they will be a joy to build, with lots of different options and beautiful detail across the model.
Simply put, you are dead wrong about GW's metal models having more detail, or in any way being better, than their new plastics.
Good for you, i'm happy to continue the discussion. You're comparing modern plastics to old metals? Again, get someone who is interested to explain the differences. Completely disregard me, i don't have a problem with that. If you're genuinely interested, seek out the information. It has to do with slides and undercuts and the like, which aren't of interest to me so i don't really pay attention other than to note it. But basically, you can make multi-part metals that are way better in detail than multi-part plastics. There are a few reasons to go with plastic (myself, i prefer plastic). But detail isn't one of them.
I've been all over the hobby world and have yet to see a metal model that comes even remotely close to the detail of GW's new plastics.
Malifaux maybe comes close? Warmachines certainly doesn't. And even in the cases that they do, you're just begging for those bits to fall off under the bad connection of superglue. Pinning is a huge pain, but none of that is a problem with plastics and plastic glue.
How about you don't bring up a conversation you don't know about if you're not ready to properly defend it? This is the Internet boyo. Come on now.
drbored wrote: B is the only thing I see fit to reply to.
HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW PLASTICS??? Holy crap the new Triumvirate of the Imperium with Celestine and Greyfax is GORGEOUS. I have the metal models right next to them and there is NO COMPARISON in detail. Metal models are clunky and, yes, often only two pieces, which means even MORE detail is sacrificed! Sleves of the robes are just whole chunks of metal!
Meanwhile, Greyfax has incredibly intricate detail, and building the new plastic models is a JOY! I was FRUSTRATED when the only piece I had to put together on my metal sisters was the backpack. The rest of the model is all one piece and it's awful! I LOVE building! I can't wait for the plastics because I'm sure they will be a joy to build, with lots of different options and beautiful detail across the model.
Simply put, you are dead wrong about GW's metal models having more detail, or in any way being better, than their new plastics.
Good for you, i'm happy to continue the discussion. You're comparing modern plastics to old metals? Again, get someone who is interested to explain the differences. Completely disregard me, i don't have a problem with that. If you're genuinely interested, seek out the information. It has to do with slides and undercuts and the like, which aren't of interest to me so i don't really pay attention other than to note it. But basically, you can make multi-part metals that are way better in detail than multi-part plastics. There are a few reasons to go with plastic (myself, i prefer plastic). But detail isn't one of them.
I've been all over the hobby world and have yet to see a metal model that comes even remotely close to the detail of GW's new plastics.
Malifaux maybe comes close? Warmachines certainly doesn't. And even in the cases that they do, you're just begging for those bits to fall off under the bad connection of superglue. Pinning is a huge pain, but none of that is a problem with plastics and plastic glue.
How about you don't bring up a conversation you don't know about if you're not ready to properly defend it? This is the Internet boyo. Come on now.
Again, you're comparing old models to new ones. Yeah, connections is an issue, you there's plenty of info on the common wisdom of pinning metal models compared to not. And plastics certainly beats that.
As for the internet 'boyo', i'm sharing information i've acquired over years of trawling it. I don't list it in my 'defence' because i'm interested in 'winning'. It's just something that i've noted from reading people who *are* interested in the topic. Metal minis (due to their casting nature) have more detail possible than plastics. Yes, gw plastics have improved a great deal since they first started. I'm quite happy to 'lose' this discussion - i'll let you 'win' and ungracefuly bow out. But from all the information i've gathered, metals have the potential for more detail. You win?
drbored wrote: B is the only thing I see fit to reply to.
HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW PLASTICS??? Holy crap the new Triumvirate of the Imperium with Celestine and Greyfax is GORGEOUS. I have the metal models right next to them and there is NO COMPARISON in detail. Metal models are clunky and, yes, often only two pieces, which means even MORE detail is sacrificed! Sleves of the robes are just whole chunks of metal!
Meanwhile, Greyfax has incredibly intricate detail, and building the new plastic models is a JOY! I was FRUSTRATED when the only piece I had to put together on my metal sisters was the backpack. The rest of the model is all one piece and it's awful! I LOVE building! I can't wait for the plastics because I'm sure they will be a joy to build, with lots of different options and beautiful detail across the model.
Simply put, you are dead wrong about GW's metal models having more detail, or in any way being better, than their new plastics.
Good for you, i'm happy to continue the discussion. You're comparing modern plastics to old metals? Again, get someone who is interested to explain the differences. Completely disregard me, i don't have a problem with that. If you're genuinely interested, seek out the information. It has to do with slides and undercuts and the like, which aren't of interest to me so i don't really pay attention other than to note it. But basically, you can make multi-part metals that are way better in detail than multi-part plastics. There are a few reasons to go with plastic (myself, i prefer plastic). But detail isn't one of them.
I've been all over the hobby world and have yet to see a metal model that comes even remotely close to the detail of GW's new plastics.
Malifaux maybe comes close? Warmachines certainly doesn't. And even in the cases that they do, you're just begging for those bits to fall off under the bad connection of superglue. Pinning is a huge pain, but none of that is a problem with plastics and plastic glue.
How about you don't bring up a conversation you don't know about if you're not ready to properly defend it? This is the Internet boyo. Come on now.
Again, you're comparing old models to new ones. Yeah, connections is an issue, you there's plenty of info on the common wisdom of pinning metal models compared to not. And plastics certainly beats that.
As for the internet 'boyo', i'm sharing information i've acquired over years of trawling it. I don't list it in my 'defence' because i'm interested in 'winning'. It's just something that i've noted from reading people who *are* interested in the topic. Metal minis (due to their casting nature) have more detail possible than plastics. Yes, gw plastics have improved a great deal since they first started. I'm quite happy to 'lose' this discussion - i'll let you 'win' and ungracefuly bow out. But from all the information i've gathered, metals have the potential for more detail. You win?
This is ridiculous anyway.
GW no longer does metal models.
You presented the argument saying simply 'Metal models tend to have better detail than plastics.' in a topic about Sisters of Battle getting plastic miniatures. Of course I'm going to compare the old ones versus the new plastics, because that's all there is to compare? I really don't understand why you dove into this. Metal models lack detail. I've been running around the internet and the only thing I can find is that due to the way casting is done, metal miniatures can have a larger variety of /angles/ of detail, but not the same resolution of detail as resin or plastic. And the way that GW constructs their models on the sprue to be built, those higher variety of angles is completely irrelevant.
But hey, in a topic filled of naysayers trying to convince me I'm wrong for believing a silly Internet rumor about a tiny niche tabletop game of toy soldiers, I finally win one, so yay.
Yes, GW no longer does metal models. They also no longer do new Sisters minis-- haven't done that since, IIRC, late third / early fourth edition, barring Celestine. Again, the last time they released Celestine, they took her away from Sisters at the time they released her, and only later gave her back in the index.
Both of these can change, if GW wants them to. Plastic Sisters is more likely than new metals. But only if GW wants them to. They have shown no desire to release new Sisters minis. They have built up absolutely no hype at all for a new miniature release, like they did for other miniature releases. There is no reason to believe Sisters minis are coming any time soon.
drbored wrote: There are rumors and tidbits that are pointing to January 2018 or around that timeframe. Here's hoping.
I have some pretty strong rumors that Sisters are not coming in January 2018. Get Pretre to add me to the rumor tracker because I have tons of other very reliable rumors: - Sisters of Battle are not coming in February 2018 - Sisters of Battle are not coming in March 2018 - Sisters of Battle are not coming in April 2018 - Sisters of Battle are not coming in May 2018 - Sisters of Battle are not coming in June 2018 - Sisters of Battle are not coming in July 2018 - Sisters of Battle are not coming in September 2018 - Sisters of Battle are not coming in November 2018 [...] - Sisters of Battle are not coming in December 2020 I'm pretty confident I'm going to beat Hastings, Lady Atia and co as the most reliable source of rumors!
drbored wrote: And one day, when they do come out, I'll stand atop the naysayers
Wait, why would you stand atop us? Even if it does happen, we will have been right many many more times than you were .
drbored wrote: Sisters of Battle getting plastic models is inevitable.
You are mistaken. You and me and all our loved ones dying and being forgotten is inevitable. The end of all life on earth as the sun dies is inevitable. Disappointment is inevitable. But plastics Sisters of Battle? Could very well never happen. I'm in a positive mood today!
drbored wrote: We're moving forward, she's in the Codex, she's a plastic Sister of Battle, and we're waiting for the rest of the plastic army to come in. Where is the break in logic?
In the 13 years between the first plastic Sister of Battle release and the second Sister of Battle release. That's the break in logic. By that time, assuming 3 more kits (foot Sisters, seraphims, exorcist) we'll get an army (well, 5 kits...) in 40 years .
drbored wrote: There are rumors and tidbits that are pointing to January 2018 or around that timeframe. Here's hoping.
I have some pretty strong rumors that Sisters are not coming in January 2018. Get Pretre to add me to the rumor tracker because I have tons of other very reliable rumors:
- Sisters of Battle are not coming in February 2018
- Sisters of Battle are not coming in March 2018
- Sisters of Battle are not coming in April 2018
- Sisters of Battle are not coming in May 2018
- Sisters of Battle are not coming in June 2018
- Sisters of Battle are not coming in July 2018
- Sisters of Battle are not coming in September 2018
- Sisters of Battle are not coming in November 2018
[...]
- Sisters of Battle are not coming in December 2020
True, they will come in December 2017 :p
Ok jk. But i really do hope we do see plastic SoBs before 2020 atleast...
B. Metal models tend to have better detail than plastics. Get a frother to explain the differences, they're noticeable. Plastic models are more easily convertable, that's for certain. And cheaper to produce (although not cheaper to buy from gw). A 1-piece metal model is easier to build than a multi-piece plastic, and probably less difficult to paint (few gaps).
10 years ago i would have agreed with you.
But as of today GW plastic models totally beat any GW Metal models by miles when it comes to details.
Plastic models don't fall apart like metal models.
Plastic models don't chip & bend like metal models.
Plastic models have an much easier time holding paint and primer over metal models.
Plastic is easy to convert.
If i drop a plastic model i know i don't need to worry about it shattering into a thousand pieces.
Metal is just too heavy and a pain to transport if you have an army with nearly only metal models.
[...]
I am so glad GW doesn't produce anymore the heavy, clunky & undetailed metal models...
Plastic > Resin > Metal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Finecast :p
Metal and Resin has better detail. Thats just a fact of the medium. I prefer still Plastic over those other two mediums, but every one has their virtues and malus.
You can't compare GW plastic with GW metals of 10-15-20 years ago.
You need to compare GW plastics with other companies metals of resins.
Or even better, compare the same kit in Plastic and in Resin. Kingdom of Death for example, or Space Marines characters and Terminators from FW's resin or GW's plastic.
Himmelweiss wrote: Ok jk. But i really do hope we do see plastic SoBs before 2020 atleast...
I would love plastic SoB before 2020. But I don't hope for it. Not anymore.
Galas wrote: You need to compare GW plastics with other companies metals of resins.
Or even better, compare the same kit in Plastic and in Resin. Kingdom of Death for example, or Space Marines characters and Terminators from FW's resin or GW's plastic.
Are there still companies doing high-quality metal models? I know GW doesn't, neither do Privateer Press I think, and while I really really love my Heroines in Sensible Shoes models, I can't argue that the sculpt has very crisp details or anything.
Been watching this conversation, and I have 2 questions.
1) Why so much arguing over metal versus plastic? If GW makes more SoB they will be plastic. Period. (I mean, when was the last time they made a metal mini?)
2) What was the level of hype over the newer Eldar models? BaC? Tau Tidewall? New T-Sons?
Arcanis161 wrote: Been watching this conversation, and I have 2 questions.
1) Why so much arguing over metal versus plastic? If GW makes more SoB they will be plastic. Period. (I mean, when was the last time they made a metal mini?)
2) What was the level of hype over the newer Eldar models? BaC? Tau Tidewall? New T-Sons?
1) for me, it was the contention that new sisters would have more detail because they were plastic. Yes, gw's plastic kits have gotten better and better over time. But if they were hypothetically metal, and gw still worked in metal, the detail would be better than in plastic. That's all. I just disagreed with the contention that plastic was superior in detail. Plastic has a lot going for it, and i'm personally glad gw have moved into a more 'all plastic' paradigm - for the things that matter to me, i prefer plastic. It was just a technicality that irked me.
2)The models, or the models and the rules that came with them? From a pure models perspective, it was pretty good. The new eldar jetbikes, for example, were leaps and bounds better than the old ones. From a rules/models perspective? In general, it depended if you played the army in question lol.
Galas wrote: Metal and Resin has better detail. Thats just a fact of the medium. I prefer still Plastic over those other two mediums, but every one has their virtues and malus.
I dont really think this is a thing anymore, Plastics are insanely highly detail now days, i mean even the 10yr old Beastman are really detailedfor its age, GW wanting to make higher details in plastic with new kits is a different story, but i'm not convinced resign/metal is higher detail.
Arcanis161 wrote: Been watching this conversation, and I have 2 questions.
1) Why so much arguing over metal versus plastic? If GW makes more SoB they will be plastic. Period. (I mean, when was the last time they made a metal mini?)
2) What was the level of hype over the newer Eldar models? BaC? Tau Tidewall? New T-Sons?
1) for me, it was the contention that new sisters would have more detail because they were plastic. Yes, gw's plastic kits have gotten better and better over time. But if they were hypothetically metal, and gw still worked in metal, the detail would be better than in plastic. That's all. I just disagreed with the contention that plastic was superior in detail. Plastic has a lot going for it, and i'm personally glad gw have moved into a more 'all plastic' paradigm - for the things that matter to me, i prefer plastic. It was just a technicality that irked me.
2)The models, or the models and the rules that came with them? From a pure models perspective, it was pretty good. The new eldar jetbikes, for example, were leaps and bounds better than the old ones. From a rules/models perspective? In general, it depended if you played the army in question lol.
GW hyped them about the same as every other release that's not a new edition or box set. I think the reactions were pretty good across those lines. People were VERY pleased with Thousand Sons, as that was a beloved kit that was really showing its age. Same with those Eldar jetbikes and Dire Avengers. BaC was also really exciting, since people had been waiting for 30k plastics. The Tau Tidewall... I don't really know that that was received all that well. It was a piece of terrain and I feel like people would have preferred other models.
That said, and this is anecdotal and biased, I don't think any potential new kits get as much excitement and argument than Sisters of Battle. They're almost on the level of meme as Squats, where people mention them just to be silly.
All the other factions are pretty content. Everyone knows that Orks, Chaos Marines, Eldar, Necron, and a few other factions do need some updated models, but on the whole they've all gotten some good attention over the past couple years.
Himmelweiss wrote: Ok jk. But i really do hope we do see plastic SoBs before 2020 atleast...
I would love plastic SoB before 2020. But I don't hope for it. Not anymore.
Galas wrote: You need to compare GW plastics with other companies metals of resins.
Or even better, compare the same kit in Plastic and in Resin. Kingdom of Death for example, or Space Marines characters and Terminators from FW's resin or GW's plastic.
Are there still companies doing high-quality metal models? I know GW doesn't, neither do Privateer Press I think, and while I really really love my Heroines in Sensible Shoes models, I can't argue that the sculpt has very crisp details or anything.
From the back of my head the only one that I remember doing metal models is Mierce.
Galas wrote: Metal and Resin has better detail. Thats just a fact of the medium. I prefer still Plastic over those other two mediums, but every one has their virtues and malus.
I dont really think this is a thing anymore, Plastics are insanely highly detail now days, i mean even the 10yr old Beastman are really detailedfor its age, GW wanting to make higher details in plastic with new kits is a different story, but i'm not convinced resign/metal is higher detail.
It surely is a thing still.
Look here for example, they explaing it very well:
http://betweenthebolterandme.blogspot.com.es/2014/05/kingdom-death-plastic-or-resin.html Plastic just isn't as good for 3D shapes and organic shapes. It because metal and Resin are cast as 3D models whenever plastic are casted in sprues, they are 2D, and so they have to sacrifice "deep" (in the sense of volume). But you are correct in that the plastic technology has reached a point where the difference between plastic and Resin can be minor if the plastic miniature is good enough.
And for all the others virtues of plastic, personally I prefer it much more than resin (And metal).
But still, I buy some resin miniatures like monsters from Mierce. Those sculpts, you can't encounter them in plastic.
Honestly the quality is the same to me, the Bestigors are really old but have fur and chainmeal (lots of small details) and the Sorcerers are close to detail, just has more flat spots b.c thats gw style (SM armor ish). But the staffs also have nice detail symbols in them as well.
Resin for sure is easier to work more details but that doesnt mean its a clear winner.
I prefer plastic like almost everyone else here.
Resin can be awesome but i still prefer plastic.
Metal... to me the quality of modern metal is just the same as modern plastic.
Finecast, i am glad it's nearly gone...
Galas wrote: Metal and Resin has better detail. Thats just a fact of the medium. I prefer still Plastic over those other two mediums, but every one has their virtues and malus.
You can't compare GW plastic with GW metals of 10-15-20 years ago.
You need to compare GW plastics with other companies metals of resins.
Or even better, compare the same kit in Plastic and in Resin. Kingdom of Death for example, or Space Marines characters and Terminators from FW's resin or GW's plastic.
I feel like plastic is just...cleaner. But my only frame of reference is old GW models so I’ll shut up.
Maybe a good comparison would be one of the Gemini and Veridian?
.
.
.
