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Ever wanted to make your voice heard? Want to tell us about your favourite army? Just like free models? The Big Community Survey is an unprecedented opportunity for you to share with us how you hobby - and we'll be sending 5 lucky entrants a £50 voucher to boot. What are you waiting for? Take a few minutes and fill in the survey here (and be sure to share this with any hobbyists you know):
Automatically Appended Next Post: I hope lots of folk fill this out, and give detailed and well thought out answers where possible too, GW is doing market research again, let's help make it useful so they continue to do so and expand it
Yep, I have done mine. A really good and complete survey. As others I have mentioned the price, and how I encountered warhammer with the Altaya's collection they did during the 1999-2000 in Spain
This was one long survey! But it was actually quite well done. Brought back some significant nostalgia (like the 'when did you start playing' question). My only negative thing was FW shipping. As much as I want everything else to be cheaper, it deters me from spending ALL of my money on stuff I may never use...
Did mine. Asked for them to talk more about WHY they make rules decisions. (Eg. Forgeworld points and AOS massive regiments) Asked them to do sales sometimes too. I really hope everyone here completes the form.
Good survey, with good optional extras for certain responses (degree of black library consumption, etc)
My gut response for least favourite thing was price, but I had just stated my favourite thing about the models was the degree of customizability and it felt kind of hypocritical of me. On second thought I suggested there's a sense of fractional favouritism where space marines are quite popular because of the support they get, but that support is driven by the fact that they're popular, but at this point even space marine players dread the new hotness that appears with every codex and maybe the other factions would grow a lot more if they got a little love.
Filled in. Nice to be able to fill in some nostalgic sections (what other GW games do you play: Epic, BFG, AI!) and I think I banged on a bit about Epic. Forgeworld Shipping prices were up there for criticism and for them to not trash an entire lore. Again.
Interesting that they asked about other companies board games...
I think the closest thing was the call for questions on rules which resulted in a bunch of FAQ Answer at the end of 7th - it's great that they went with a proper survey this time instead of asking stuff via facebook (which excludes people without FB and is just a horrible format to do anything but post links to videos and images)
The survey surprised me with how long and in-depth it was, very well done. Glad I could finally tell them to increase points on Chaos Marines back to unplayable levels while buffing my favourite toys - erm, I mean, balance the game properly!
On FW shipping: My biggest beef with FW is that they promote bundles all the time that save you literally nothing. "Hey, buy this Sicaran bundle for 158 pound" instead of just buying both tanks in that deal on their own - at 79 pounds each. It's just insulting.
Did mine. Was a surprisingly comprehensive survey. Didn't ask about price as that's a waste of time. Asked them about plastic sisters and about combining the sites into one to A) make it simpler to find products without having to switch and B) to amalgamate the shipping costs to get rid of the BS shipping Forge World does.
zedmeister wrote: Interesting that they asked about other companies board games...
I thought so too. They're looking to see what's popular with their player base, I wonder if it's to avoid introducing things that would be stifled by the popularity of those games or if they're looking to directly compete with them?
I think the closest thing was the call for questions on rules which resulted in a bunch of FAQ Answer at the end of 7th - it's great that they went with a proper survey this time instead of asking stuff via facebook (which excludes people without FB and is just a horrible format to do anything but post links to videos and images)
The survey surprised me with how long and in-depth it was, very well done. Glad I could finally tell them to increase points on Chaos Marines back to unplayable levels while buffing my favourite toys - erm, I mean, balance the game properly!
Ah ok.. I did not play in 7th. so I had no idea about that.
Yes it was a very well done survey indeed. I asked them to be more open with the process they price units points wise and that Slaanesh needs some love too xD.
Not for a long time, I remember filling in pen and paper surveys towards the beginning of my hobby life but not really since the internet was a thing
Edit: and while price was also at the top of my dislikes I tried to also give an alternate answer too so they had something they were more likely to address to look at as well
Sqorgar wrote: Asked for lower prices and plastic Sisters of Battle. I only demand the impossible.
Damm I forgot about Plastic Sisters!
I would have asked about that too.. but I would prefer Astra Militarum Renegades of Slaanesh instead (of course also the other lesser chaos gods too if they so choose ), which is something I would actually buy.
Geifer wrote: GW doing market research? That deserves to be rewarded with an honest and mostly positive contribution.
Oddly enough I didn't complain about price, but quality instead. I'm willing to pay good money for good quality.
And now that they know I want plastic Sisters, I'm sure we'll get new Squats real soon.
Yeah - my complaints are mostly "dishonest deals on FW" and "write proper rules and stop the power creep from turning early codicies into laughing stocks". The prices are ok'ish if you consider that GW has a level of quality few achieve at all, and none do in plastic. And while sure, I can buy better-looking Guardsmen (and Guardswomen!) from Victoria, they're like 50 USD for an infantry squad. Basic infantry.
My first thought was “£50 up for grabs? Sure.” but actually a very comprehensive and well designed survey.
For the least favourite part I didn’t go for direct price, but the cost of having to have so many different books and supplements.
And I gave them positive feedback on Warhammer Community and Facebook pages in the anything else section.
Good job GW, hope you get some useful feedback (and not too much butt hurt!)
Edit: I wonder if Roundtree had been planning to do this from the start, but wanted to have some time playing nicely first, so that the survey didn’t get swamped in “GW you suck!!!” comments?
I filled it out too, asking for plastic resculpts of old models and no more "one click" bundles with no discount. Apart from Australia and New Zealand, as well as a few select models, I don't think their prices are that bad. I'd buy more if they were cheaper, sure, but apart from recasters (who save money by using others' work and only doing the casting) you don't get the same quality for that much cheaper. And many recasters don't even do a very good job.
I also thanked Rountree, things have improved a lot since he took over.
I've filled out several fan surveys before and surprisingly that was one of the most well thought out ones I've ever done, who would have thought it would come from GW!
Reading the other posts here, I'm beginning to think I should have thought more about my feedback.
I was also surprised how detailed it was and also how many open comment parts there were! Honestly one of the better surveys I've seen!
How they can get some good info from it and can work toward some of the hopes of the community.
Personally I didn't put price, sure we'd all like cheaper prices, but honestly everyone knows that and its hard to speak well of the customisable, optional parts and high detail and then call for cheaper and cheaper prices. Asides the newer Necromunda style games should easily provide cheaper avenues for gamers.
A chance to tell GW to move to paint dripper bottles, or.. well... anything rather than the crappy pots it's in now.
Oh, and the constant renaming of stuff.
I don''t even know what my Ogre Kingdoms or Dark Eldar are called anymore.
The only poorly made question they asked was the one about which social media do you see. If the answer is none, they still forced you to choose, fb, twitter, youtube or twitch anyway.
Overread wrote: I was also surprised how detailed it was and also how many open comment parts there were! Honestly one of the better surveys I've seen!
How they can get some good info from it and can work toward some of the hopes of the community.
Personally I didn't put price, sure we'd all like cheaper prices, but honestly everyone knows that and its hard to speak well of the customisable, optional parts and high detail and then call for cheaper and cheaper prices. Asides the newer Necromunda style games should easily provide cheaper avenues for gamers.
I didn't asked for lower prices but for a better perceived value. For example I mentioned Genestealer Cults, how their kits are beautifull but the relation points-€ is abysmall. Or how a box of 10 Kabalite Warriors (Very nice miniatures) cost 24€ but a box of 10 fire warriors with a turret cost 40€. I mentioned that the solution wasn't to make the Kabalite 40€ for 10, but to encounter a middle ground, offering a good value for the money you invest.
Imateria wrote:I've filled out several fan surveys before and surprisingly that was one of the most well thought out ones I've ever done, who would have thought it would come from GW!
Reading the other posts here, I'm beginning to think I should have thought more about my feedback.
I did mention price, but suggested that a tiered discount system might be helpful for repeat customers or some kind of membership system similar to Amazon prime. I'd happily pay a fee or subscription in order to get access to bits, discounts, free next-day delivery etc.
I used the liked least box to say sudden discontinuation of support for entire product lines, including both the prior closure of specialist games, and the strangely salt the earth approach to closing Warhammer fantasy.
Done and done!
I was suprised by GWs survey, very well done!
Long story short:
Spoiler:
- Remove the paywall from their twitch, it would increase the amount of viewers as well as creating a better image of the company as a whole (instead of their pay to ask us a question about your new codex or w/e book it is) considering they have roughly 100-300 viewers
- Discount system and/or more boundles
- More multikits (like the swarmlord/hive tyrant HQ kit, but for other factions aswell, a lot of HQs would be able to build with multikits)
- Entire range in plastic
- Direct email and/or Q/A page to get anwsers more quickly from the rules team (as far as I know, you just email GW and they will forward it to the rules team, why not just directly to the rules team?)
- Remove comments blocking from their youtube (are they afraid of negative comments?)
- More Q/A with the game designers (now its like 5min on twitch, make it 30min-1hour)
- Even more surveys and / or community engagement, in that sense that they let the community ask them questions and / or more input from the community. Their 15player playtesting team cant do everything theirselves, also considering the backlash from CA.
I certainly took more than 20 minutes to complete that. I enjoyed some of the possible answers, you'd only get them on a GW survey. It was all quite reflective really...
I hate these kind of surveys. I always draw a blank when looking at the openquestions, and so manny good suggestions in these 2 pages (and some not so good, youtube comments are horifying and a site wide exterminatus may be necessary).
Done! I was honestly completely stumped when they asked me what they could do better, had to think for several minutes to come up with anything. They're basically doing everything right nowadays as far as I'm concerned. I don't have a problem with the prices like many others so that's out. I did ask them to be even more open about why they make decisions and future plans. I also agree with Nogil that WHTV Twitch should be free.
Must admit that I had a little fun with the "How did you find out about Warhammer" question. I answered Space Crusade and Heroquest TV adverts along with Christopher Lee!
Ranking the game systems (1-7) was downright weird. Aside from 40k, I don't play any of those in their current form, and never liked BB.
Ticked Other: and filled in Warhammer Fantasy Battles and Epic a lot.
Very much wanted to correct faction names as well.
For the 'Where do you purchase?' question, I took the opportunity to point out that I only bought from independent or online, so their website 'direct only' models were a reason not to buy them at all.
Grr on the social media question- my actual answer was to tick none of them (which is true). Apparently that was not an acceptable answer.
Im probably the minority but I dont think the prices are an issue. Sure they could be cheaper, I doubt anyone would argue that. Are there other products out there that are better and cheaper, probably, are there products out there that are lower quality and the same price or more, Ya..
Good survey, nice to see they are asking us for our opinions. Said I would like to see BFG come back and like the general direction they have been going lately, but wish the prices were lower.
My least liked opinion was the move towards monopose figures, I pointed out how I personally felt Blightkings were the pinnacle of success for a kit that I could create full units of entirely different models and it gave me a reason to buy more than once box.
Well if they don't get "bring back the Old World" and "no to steampunk flying Dwarves" from my entry then maybe I should have said it a few dozen more times.
BrookM wrote: Thanks for sharing, it made me think for a bit on some of them, but all in all I asked them to keep up the good work and to keep at it.
Pretty much this mixed with human requests like Freeguild knights(Freelancer Order) or Stormcast squires.
All in all I'm pretty satisfied as is.
I asked for halflings in Age of Sigmar.
I might have a problem.
Not that bad of a problem.
I hope if they do get introduced they'll do a whole new take on them. Not-hobbits hiding in a Shire isn't very inspiring.
Oh, and the constant renaming of stuff.
I don''t even know what my Ogre Kingdoms
Beastclaw Raiders, Gutbusters, Fire bellies and Man eaters. (AoS app, AoS trope character wiki or the 1d4chan tactics page are good places to learn the names with the app being the fastest..)
I actually like Drukhari... is like the old world Druchii, Ashur and Asrai separation. I never liked Dark Eldar. From a Imperial point of view it makes sense, but they arent "Dark". They are literally just the same as Eldar where pre-Fall. They should be just Eldar, with the Craftworld and Exodites having the adjetives.
Told them to stop charging based on model type. Used the chaos terminator box as an example, somehow a two frame garbage kit that is over 50 bucks when I can get a CSM kit with more frames for less. I also suggested dropping the price on older kits like berserkers, that kit is kind of garbage and should be at a discount until updated. I also suggested selling individual frames for bits direct only.
Oh and I told them it makes no sense to limit options on characters and units in some areas and not others and that it doesn't help them sell minis. For example bike characters mostly vanishing yet grey knight grandmaster coming out of nowhere with an article on how to kitbash it... I even used that example.
Mymearan wrote: I also agree with Nogil that WHTV Twitch should be free.
Real quick-like, the Twitch is free...just only for when it's live. Viewing the archived stuff requires a Prime subscription which many people have pointed out that Amazon Prime lets you subscribe to one for free.
For myself, I made a point of addressing a few things:
The lack of (best way to describe it here) a better way for someone starting a "horde" army like Guard or Death versus an "elite" army like Marines or Stormcast to get into things. Start Collecting sets are all fine and good but there's only so much they actually do for you.
I addressed pricing/packaging a bit as I feel that some stuff should be packaged better or at different prices. I specifically called out Cadian Shock Trooper Squads(as the box doesn't give you "all the options" being an older kit), Sicarian(they need to be 10 models instead of 5), Electropriests(same), the Pox-Walkers, Death Guard, and a few other things.
I addressed the idea of rather than one huge starter set being the only thing available, I suggested several smaller starter sets with differing forces like Tau versus Necrons or Guard versus Tyranids etc.
That's about all I can remember putting up there, did it this morning in a rush.
Well, gak. I thought I was pretty comprehensive but I missed out on a lot of good stuff other folk posted. Interesting move by GW, we'll see if anything comes of it, assuming there's any way for us to tell since they're never likely to release the datasets.
asked about stopping the fluff destruction/aberrations (AOS, primaris) and a return of bitz service.
Also, more support for Necro and all specialist games.
Forgot about it, but I should have told them about stopping the nickel and diming ( digital cards for WHQ, Twitch behind a paywall). With how much money I spend on their products, the constant attempt to squeeze every penny out of me feels like the proverbial slap in the face
Also, more support for Necro and all specialist games
We really only had Bitz when GW cast mostly in metal, because with metal you can cast a model and sell 1 part from the casting and any waste parts just get thrown back into the melting pot to be made into models again. Plastics, resins, resinplastics can't do that. If they cast up a model for 1 part for a buyer they've got to hold onto the rest of the plastic to either sell or just store.
It's why often you'll get a complete new kit even if only one part is faulty, because it costs GW exactly the same and it saves them having to pay to dispose of the waste plastic sprue.
Bitz I don't expect to ever return unless GW returns to metals (highly unlikely). That said I'd welcome them introducing more "upgrade" kits outside of marine doors/shoulderpads.
that's true, but AFAIK the production cost of a sprue is so low, that it might even be worthwhile for them to produce a full one, even if they only sell a few pieces of it
An actual survey that was well thought out for once!
As for ways to improve, I suggested releasing weapon upgrade kits on sprees like they had for second edition and Necromunda - I recon a lot of people would benefit immensely from them...
Victrix sculpts are better then GW, sprues come with tons of options, and almost 5 times the amount of figs for less money. Bolt Action, get enough to play a small game in one box, lots of options, equivalent or better sculpts, and still cheaper. Fireforge has equivalent sculpts, comes with options, could build a saga force out of a single infantry box, and cheaper. There is 0 reason for the prices GW charges other than because they can.
I told them prices were getting out of hand and then asked for a return to the old world, maybe even as a setting to AoS. "Look at this long-lost realm! Even Sigmar barely remembers it! Look at how they fight in tight formations! We'd better do that too if we want to compete with their weight of numbers!"
GW releases the old WoTR movement trays and a Warhammer: Legacy rule book with rules in fielding your AoS armies in the old world. Everyone wins.
Dr. Mills wrote: An actual survey that was well thought out for once!
Kind of. The problem with it is online surveys (and the people behind the surveys) don't do well with free text boxes, which I notice is what a lot of people are commenting on.
They're incredibly useful for determining that X system gets Y percentage of attention, while some other system gets much less percentage, and numerical analysis along those lines. So it should come to no one's surprise that when they look at the 'rank our current systems in order' question, 40k will almost certainly come out on top.
But you can't deal with text that way.
At some point some actually has to read it, and deal with all the different opinions, expressed in completely different ways, and then turn that into a meaningful report for a management team to kick up to someone who can actually make a decision based on it.
And that is hard. It's often easier to decide that just asking the questions convinces customers that the company is more involved and cares about their opinions. Then quietly put the results in a box somewhere, and possibly tell people that 'Top Men' are studying it.
Nitpicking but all that stuff would require large AoS retcons since the core of the Old World is what Azyrheim's built around, Sigmar does remember it as he has libraries dedicated to study of the World that was and the End Times with Freeguild regiments taking their heraldry, uniforms and training from those lessons (Ostland Bull became the Stone bull, Myrmidia the Sanguine Lady, etc.) and lastly the AoS armies do fight in formations in the lore(with the exception of orruks, ogors and the like) and can be duplicated in game. Also, Hammerhal itself is the size of a small continent alone so numbers certainly aren't a problem there.
It'd be better to just make a alternative timeline after the End Times and the Realm of Chaos allowing AoS armies to travel through to the Old World to either save it or plunder it.(which also would stop AoS' superior sized armies from just rolling and crushing a world which hundreds of which would fit into any one of the realms)
Also, EEFL (eighth edition for life) makes rank and file rulings for AoS units in 8th if you're interested.
Voss most likely they'll use the general multiple choices as the bulk of the data; then cherrypick out of the questions freely answered. Also don't forget even just a chance to express ones self to a company can make many customer happier that they have been listened too.
I don't think anyone seriously thinks GW will respond to every suggestion in the way the person wants; but I'm sure they can cherry pick even a portion and get a representation of reviews and ideas from players.
To them it is, They sell you a hobby not a game. It's been a their line for ages. Or at least 6 years since that's when I started and they already said it then.
Earth127 wrote: To them it is, They sell you a hobby not a game. It's been a their line for ages. Or at least 6 years since that's when I started and they already said it then.
That's about when they started that nonsense.
I actually mentioned on one of those questions that it was misleading, and that I considered Warhammer properly an adjunct to the general roleplaying and gaming industry.
Mentioned the WHFRPG as one of their games as well, which frankly will probably just confuse them.
Nitpicking but all that stuff would require large AoS retcons since the core of the Old World is what Azyrheim's built around, Sigmar does remember it as he has libraries dedicated to study of the World that was and the End Times with Freeguild regiments taking their heraldry, uniforms and training from those lessons (Ostland Bull became the Stone bull, Myrmidia the Sanguine Lady, etc.) and lastly the AoS armies do fight in formations in the lore(with the exception of orruks, ogors and the like) and can be duplicated in game. Also, Hammerhal itself is the size of a small continent alone so numbers certainly aren't a problem there.
It'd be better to just make a alternative timeline after the End Times and the Realm of Chaos allowing AoS armies to travel through to the Old World to either save it or plunder it.(which also would stop AoS' superior sized armies from just rolling and crushing a world which hundreds of which would fit into any one of the realms)
Also, EEFL (eighth edition for life) makes rank and file rulings for AoS units in 8th if you're interested.
Or, just retcon AoS off into its own alternate reality like Blood Bowl(which is what it should have been in the first place, a "new" IP) and pretend the End Times never happened to WHF-prime in the first place. The gap in time between the end of WHF and the beginning of recorded time in AoS is vast and undefined IIRC, so AoS players who really really love the fact that their setting is built on the carcass of WHF can keep thinking of it as "the future", those of us who actually liked WHF can ignore it entirely, and of course the folk who just want to collect pretty models and push them around won't give a gak either way. The JJ Abrams method.
Nitpicking but all that stuff would require large AoS retcons since the core of the Old World is what Azyrheim's built around, Sigmar does remember it as he has libraries dedicated to study of the World that was and the End Times with Freeguild regiments taking their heraldry, uniforms and training from those lessons (Ostland Bull became the Stone bull, Myrmidia the Sanguine Lady, etc.) and lastly the AoS armies do fight in formations in the lore(with the exception of orruks, ogors and the like) and can be duplicated in game. Also, Hammerhal itself is the size of a small continent alone so numbers certainly aren't a problem there.
It'd be better to just make a alternative timeline after the End Times and the Realm of Chaos allowing AoS armies to travel through to the Old World to either save it or plunder it.(which also would stop AoS' superior sized armies from just rolling and crushing a world which hundreds of which would fit into any one of the realms)
Also, EEFL (eighth edition for life) makes rank and file rulings for AoS units in 8th if you're interested.
Thanks for taking the time to type all of that! I will definitely check out the EEFL rules. I could dig an alternate timeline thing, really I just loved the futility of the whole setting and any excuse that I can get To game in that world I will take!
Dr. Mills wrote: An actual survey that was well thought out for once!
Kind of. The problem with it is online surveys (and the people behind the surveys) don't do well with free text boxes, which I notice is what a lot of people are commenting on.
They're incredibly useful for determining that X system gets Y percentage of attention, while some other system gets much less percentage, and numerical analysis along those lines. So it should come to no one's surprise that when they look at the 'rank our current systems in order' question, 40k will almost certainly come out on top.
But you can't deal with text that way.
At some point some actually has to read it, and deal with all the different opinions, expressed in completely different ways, and then turn that into a meaningful report for a management team to kick up to someone who can actually make a decision based on it.
And that is hard. It's often easier to decide that just asking the questions convinces customers that the company is more involved and cares about their opinions. Then quietly put the results in a box somewhere, and possibly tell people that 'Top Men' are studying it.
There are some pretty strong software for doing text analysis nowadays. I don't know if GW has them, or have people skilled enough to use them, but the days of reading every comments are long gone
streetsamurai wrote: that's true, but AFAIK the production cost of a sprue is so low, that it might even be worthwhile for them to produce a full one, even if they only sell a few pieces of it
The cost of staffing the bitz orders was why they stopped though the removal of metal kits probably added to that.
so AoS players who really really love the fact that their setting is built on the carcass of WHF
Thank you, I shall.
We were thinking of ways to connect the settings and make crossovers, the salt wasn't needed.
Thanks for taking the time to type all of that! I will definitely check out the EEFL rules. I could dig an alternate timeline thing, really I just loved the futility of the whole setting and any excuse that I can get To game in that world I will take!
No problem!
Don't miss the Old World rpg coming out mid 2018 by Cubicle7 then.
It was a surprising good survey. I used it as a platform to rant about the butchering of the lore recently, and how that has killed my enthusiasm for the games.
Also reminded them I'm still waiting on that plastic thunderhawk they teased.
I thought it was a good survey as well. I mentioned price as the biggest issue with me, but I was very positive about everything else. They charge quite a bit for these kits of unpainted/unassembled plastic that many of us buy the paint and glue to build them with directly from GW. I had to bug them about bringing back chaos dwarfs in a big way though... so we'll see if that works. Should have asked for plastic sisters as well.
Dr. Mills wrote: An actual survey that was well thought out for once!
Kind of. The problem with it is online surveys (and the people behind the surveys) don't do well with free text boxes, which I notice is what a lot of people are commenting on.
They're incredibly useful for determining that X system gets Y percentage of attention, while some other system gets much less percentage, and numerical analysis along those lines. So it should come to no one's surprise that when they look at the 'rank our current systems in order' question, 40k will almost certainly come out on top.
But you can't deal with text that way.
At some point some actually has to read it, and deal with all the different opinions, expressed in completely different ways, and then turn that into a meaningful report for a management team to kick up to someone who can actually make a decision based on it.
And that is hard. It's often easier to decide that just asking the questions convinces customers that the company is more involved and cares about their opinions. Then quietly put the results in a box somewhere, and possibly tell people that 'Top Men' are studying it.
There are some pretty strong software for doing text analysis nowadays. I don't know if GW has them, or have people skilled enough to use them, but the days of reading every comments are long gone
You misunderstand me. I know there is software for picking up text. But somewhere, someone along the line has to give a comprehensible report to someone (likely a group or committee) and that group has to have something actionable to take to someone who can actually make a decision, that says 'based on this, we need more units of <product line> and we can lower production of <other product>.' And hopefully delve a bit deeper than that, but I'm summarizing.
Getting 10,000 various statements that range from 'lower prices' to 'age of sigmar suxxx' to 'bring back squats' and everything in between plus a lot of things outside those bounds and frankly probably disturbing and/or incomprehensible. And, of course, a lot of blanks.
Yes you boil it down into groups and themes and discard probably most of it as trash or non-answers, but it still doesn't produce anything like 'XX% of those surveyed buy 40k but not bloodbowl' and other analytic statements along those lines.
At some point the data has to make the transition from what software automation captures to something people can do something with, preferably outside a power point. At that takes actual work, by people, not software automation.
Filled it out. Asked them to bring back the Old World, but not as the answer to every question.
Gimgamgoo wrote: A chance to tell GW to move to paint dripper bottles, or.. well... anything rather than the crappy pots it's in now.
Oh, and the constant renaming of stuff.
I don''t even know what my Ogre Kingdoms or Dark Eldar are called anymore.
The only poorly made question they asked was the one about which social media do you see. If the answer is none, they still forced you to choose, fb, twitter, youtube or twitch anyway.
Gah, Wish I read this before I did the survey! I'm in the same boat, literally no idea what half my armies are called anymore for either system.
Earth127 wrote: To them it is, They sell you a hobby not a game. It's been a their line for ages. Or at least 6 years since that's when I started and they already said it then.
That's about when they started that nonsense.
It's way older than that, they were pushing that narrative back when I worked for them nearly 20 years ago.
I'm suddenly quite worried. (probably irrationally) I have been in the hobby since the 80's but Aos and Shadespire are two of my favourite things GW have everyone done. I can imagine GW looking at the data showing that 40k is overwhelmingly the most popular system and deciding that the systems that I like best will get less support. I think one of the best changes of modern GW is the increased variety of products. I really hope GW learns the right lessons from this survey.
Haha, there's loads more data from everything else(especially sales) showing that 40k is far more popular than Fantasy/AoS. Hasn't stopped them from giving bigger support to all their other games like LotR.
This survey will neither surprise them nor influence that support. This isn't the Kirby era anymore, that Stormcast statue is in front of their building to prove that the system with the actual Warhammer in it isn't getting left behind again.
Well for the fantasy armies you should probably get the AoS app. Just flicking through the factions will show you the warscrolls and their visual models to help you learn the changes.
Earth127 wrote: To them it is, They sell you a hobby not a game. It's been a their line for ages. Or at least 6 years since that's when I started and they already said it then.
That's about when they started that nonsense.
It's way older than that, they were pushing that narrative back when I worked for them nearly 20 years ago.
Ah, well. No idea what they told the store staffers to say to people. The only time I had stores around me was the very first wave in the States, and those largely failed and closed.
But the game didn't present that, nor did WD really. At least not in the old days when it was worthwhile.
so AoS players who really really love the fact that their setting is built on the carcass of WHF
Thank you, I shall.
We were thinking of ways to connect the settings and make crossovers, the salt wasn't needed.
It was meant as a good-natured poke, but whatever. The point was your objection only applies and your solution to it only becomes necessary if we preserve the present "WHF happened, the End Times happened, then AoS happens" linear sequence of events as being the single and only "reality" - shift AoS off into its own thing and restore WHF as it was in the time of Karl Franz with rumours of the dark powers rising again in the north yadda yadda etc and almost everyone gets what they want. Heck I've seen you extolling the virtues of having a more "open" setting to come up with stuff for, if the Warhammer World that AoS grows out of stops being the "proper" one then AoS fans can reimagine bits of that as well if they like.
Doing a "crossover" between the two settings defeats the entire point of bringing WHF back for my money - the reason I would want WHF to return is I don't find AoS appealing, and I'd find it even less appealing if I wander down the club for a game in the setting I like and someone plonks down a bunch of Stormcast who've come through the Plotdevicia Gateway.
Anyway, I don't actually expect GW to bring back WHF for decades if ever, they've evidently committed to making AoS a success in the way they refused to for WHF a few years back so that's that.
Okay but that's what we were discussing, a connected universe that can have AoS coming into the Old World.
Neither me nor Wildcard were considering you nor the other Old World purists at all and were spitballing ideas more for the pro/neutral AoS crowd. You kinda just butted in there.
(Mine was meant for a good natured poke as well, mind. )
Baron Klatz wrote: Okay but that's what we were discussing, a connected universe that can have AoS coming into the Old World.
Neither me nor Wildcard were considering you nor the other Old World purists at all and were spitballing ideas more for the pro/neutral AoS crowd. You kinda just butted in there.
Aye, "butted in" on an open discussion topic
Anyway, I won't drag things OT any more, spitball away.
Asked for plastic sisters, that and 1 more Sigmar faction I like are really the only things i still feel like I'm missing.
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Nogil wrote: Done and done!
I was suprised by GWs survey, very well done!
Long story short:
Spoiler:
- Remove the paywall from their twitch, it would increase the amount of viewers as well as creating a better image of the company as a whole (instead of their pay to ask us a question about your new codex or w/e book it is) considering they have roughly 100-300 viewers
- Discount system and/or more boundles
- More multikits (like the swarmlord/hive tyrant HQ kit, but for other factions aswell, a lot of HQs would be able to build with multikits)
- Entire range in plastic
- Direct email and/or Q/A page to get anwsers more quickly from the rules team (as far as I know, you just email GW and they will forward it to the rules team, why not just directly to the rules team?)
- Remove comments blocking from their youtube (are they afraid of negative comments?)
- More Q/A with the game designers (now its like 5min on twitch, make it 30min-1hour)
- Even more surveys and / or community engagement, in that sense that they let the community ask them questions and / or more input from the community. Their 15player playtesting team cant do everything theirselves, also considering the backlash from CA.
In response to one of the questions in the spoiler, they don't have a direct email because they'd get 600 emails and hour and of those 470ish would be split into variations of either 'I didn't wanna read the rules all the way through, can you just tell me how everything works?' Or 'Can I do this thing I clearly am not allowed to because I want to?'
Victrix sculpts are better then GW, sprues come with tons of options, and almost 5 times the amount of figs for less money. Bolt Action, get enough to play a small game in one box, lots of options, equivalent or better sculpts, and still cheaper. Fireforge has equivalent sculpts, comes with options, could build a saga force out of a single infantry box, and cheaper. There is 0 reason for the prices GW charges other than because they can.
The only way the stuff about sculpts in that last paragraph is true is if you linked to the wrong websites.
Oh. New South Wales. Right where I live. How nice.
Anyway, I told them to keep making cool terrain, put the rules first, hire some actual fething proofreaders, and to cut the gak with the 2x prices in places outside of the UK and US.
Victrix sculpts are better then GW, sprues come with tons of options, and almost 5 times the amount of figs for less money. Bolt Action, get enough to play a small game in one box, lots of options, equivalent or better sculpts, and still cheaper. Fireforge has equivalent sculpts, comes with options, could build a saga force out of a single infantry box, and cheaper. There is 0 reason for the prices GW charges other than because they can.
100-man ~10 quid
https://www.amazon.com/TimMee-PLASTIC-ARMY-MEN-Soldier/dp/B005LDBCC6 By TimMee. AND they are pre-painted!!!
Sculpts better/equivalent to GW, made in USA, not from a cheap Chinese factory, enough minis for a game, many unique dynamic poses, rulebook is free. Sheesh, GW, why are you so expensive.
So did I - and reminded them that Gorkamorka, Mighty Empires, Dark Future and the Battle for Armageddon board game used to be available as free PDFs.
I don't mind Gorkamorka etc not being done, as there's still a decent chance it'll be folded into Necromunda anyway with vehicle rules in the Ash Wastes (as Necromunda is part of the Heresy Weekender, I'd say the game is very much here to stay). So saving it until then makes sense.
But for previous editions of 40k and Warhams? Not really competing with anything, other than a pricey 2nd Hand market.
... We could combine two of your requests, in a way - could we have the tiles from Advanced Heroquest and the 90s Warhammer Quest re-done astile packs for the new Warhammer Quest?
90's Quest? Absolutely! But, if memory serves, they managed to lose the floor plan masters when they moved from Chewton Treetops to Warhammer World?
I'd love to see it done. Not sure how print-on-demand floor tiles work though - may not be practical? But hey, that's GW's worry. Let's just keep telling them what we want to see, and they can sort out the feasibility and logistics.
They asked us how much we buy from them annually. I'd be astonished if they paid any attention to those who fell outside the two highest options.
I tried not to rant and to pay compliments where they were due (ie the last 18 months has seen a great turn around in interaction with the customer-base, previews, re-introduction of specialist games), but also point out that the new 40k lore is really unimpressive and that if regular marines are done away with then I'm finished and other companies like Wyrd start taking all my hobby cash. Updating ancient/finecast models is preferable to new factions, please don't have questions like the one which demands you pick a social media outlet and provides no 'I don't use your social media platforms' option, it'll distort your data.
Geifer wrote: I'm sure we'll get new Squats real soon.
Feck, I forgot to ask for more Squats!
Don't worry, I didn't (nor did a whole load of folk I'd suspect...)!
Wish I'd asked for Thrud back in WD tho!
So many forgotten things, so little time!
I do regret not asking for more Warhammer Quest. Hopefully it's not too much of a problem because it's still an active product and they'll have sales numbers to derive popularity from.
Stormonu wrote: "What would you say is the biggest change we need to make to our web site?"
How about putting the factions in alphabetical order - is that so freaking hard to do?
As they game armies silly names, alphabetical lists would be worse than what they have now. At least they're grouped with other armies you might know the names of.
Didn't they do a survey not long after the website relaunched? This was around the time of the CHS legal battle, and before the website looked like it does now.
The highest-spenders are the ones they can probably safely ignore. If I've said I only spend twenty quid every month or so, and then later say "but I'd really be interested in buying this, that and the other, if they were available", that's probably worth looking at.
I asked to throw the other factions a bone. I understand Space Marines and Stormcast are probably their most sold kits, but give the other factions a chance! Each and every month is a constant release of one or both of these 2.
The only way the stuff about sculpts in that last paragraph is true is if you linked to the wrong websites.
Perhaps personal opinion then. Nothing GW is really amazing. Skulls everywhere and everything completely out of proportion. The old Tau stealth suits looked better than the new, and the best suits are Forgeworld. Marines generally are pretty good, but mostly due to large flat surfaces.
Most of their (GW) work tends to be overly chunky any more.
While still a bit out of proportion, most historical figs are much better scaled to themselves.
Spoiler:
Aventine also does some really nice republican romans.
Fireforge are at least as good as Empire troops, and look less 'blobby'.
The sprue you linked is from Victrix is from their first 3 Ancient Greek sets. I have them, while nice, they are not of the same level as current GW sprues. Victrix latest sprues are much better. I.e their IE Roman Auxilliary set.
Anyway, I love historicals and I am huge fan of Victrix and Perry. Fireforge mini's are not very impressive compared with Victrix or Perry. Anyway their plastic designs and how they go together aren't comparable to what the newest GW plastic kits achieve.
I collect more historicals than GW, but in 28 - 32 mm "plastics" GW is number 1.
The only way the stuff about sculpts in that last paragraph is true is if you linked to the wrong websites.
Perhaps personal opinion then. Nothing GW is really amazing. Skulls everywhere and everything completely out of proportion. The old Tau stealth suits looked better than the new, and the best suits are Forgeworld. Marines generally are pretty good, but mostly due to large flat surfaces.
Most of their (GW) work tends to be overly chunky any more.
While still a bit out of proportion, most historical figs are much better scaled to themselves.
[spoiler]
Aventine also does some really nice republican romans.
Fireforge are at least as good as Empire troops, and look less 'blobby'.
The only way the stuff about sculpts in that last paragraph is true is if you linked to the wrong websites.
Perhaps personal opinion then. Nothing GW is really amazing. Skulls everywhere and everything completely out of proportion. The old Tau stealth suits looked better than the new, and the best suits are Forgeworld. Marines generally are pretty good, but mostly due to large flat surfaces.
Most of their (GW) work tends to be overly chunky any more.
While still a bit out of proportion, most historical figs are much better scaled to themselves.
Spoiler:
Aventine also does some really nice republican romans.
Fireforge are at least as good as Empire troops, and look less 'blobby'.
Spoiler:
While I very much prefer the realistic side of scaling myself, I think it's a bit unfair to criticize GW for their chosen style instead of, say, asking for designs to be consistent within that style. Tomb Kings and Dwarfs come to mind as armies that got an unneeded style change with their last army book (even though I like the new Ironbreakers just fine, by themselves). Dwarfs got embiggened and Tomb Kings' stylings looked more akin to Mayan than Egyptian stuff.
Just saying. Not knocking your opinion or anything. I often wish GW did a more realistic style myself, and it seems they're willing to do that with female models in general and the new Escher in particular.
I didn't. I mentioned them several times along with a super heavy tyranid in plastic. I want a sisters release on par with the Dark Eldar release years ago. If I remember correctly that was one of their best releases in a long time.
sockwithaticket wrote: They asked us how much we buy from them annually. I'd be astonished if they paid any attention to those who fell outside the two highest options.
The people who are already giving you their money are already giving you their money, but that doesn't tell you what you did wrong to make people stop giving you money, despite still caring enough about your IP to spend half an hour filling in a survey.
I brought up the Australia tax (55% on the new Eschers), the lack of plastic Sisters of Battle and suggested putting the Gorkamorka rules back on their site as an easy way to add value to Ork sales. Apart from that, mostly generic stuff for somebody who has been out of the market since they put the embargo in place.
There’s a good point there, hopefully a lot of ex-players here and around the Internet will take the time to fill it out and explain why they left and what would bring them back.
I'm one who hasn't been active for many years in the hobby. I've been constantly following the big changes though and been aware of new editions. My biggest love in science fiction is 40k.
My biggest offput is how GW manages their rules. Books that come out always on wrong intervals and they make erratas to them as soon as the new books are out. I was quite disappointed that they put up erratas one week after release... Also the upcoming Chapter Approved is annoying because it's partly an errata that costs €€€.
I would hope that GW put out all the rules and codices and whatnot on their website for free and keep them up to date. This would make returning much easier. I'm not sure, but I think this would not lessen their revenues too much. I think hobbyists have their average €/month that they put into the hobby. Instead of rules the income would come from more miniatures / stories sales. I can very well be wrong on this one too.
Otherwise I'm quite happy on the price level of the minis and the stuff from Black Library. The quality of the minis on almost every new release is stunning.
ps. another point is also the time it takes to paint an army and play 40k games. Smaller skirmish size games are easier to start with, where Necromunda, Shadow War: Armageddon and Blood Bowl are great.
I almost criticized price and then looked at how much I spent annually and figured they'd just wave that away. So I went after proof reading and match play balance.
Albino Squirrel wrote: I sure hope they ignore all the terrible suggestions about bringing back the old world. Or squats.
I hope they listen to the suggestions about the old world. That is the only way they are going to get me back to playing their fantasy line. Seriously, if I wanted to play the bahagvita I would prefer it to be as such and not in a low magic filled world where gun powder is just as viable offence as magic is. Where hero's die instead of being 're-born' again and again till there is nothing original left about them. Then again, it is a crap shoot to say the least. The only way now that I can see it brought back is a complete destruction of the future of AoS and they bring the current models back in time to right before the end times and change the future, after all time is wonky with the warp. I don't mind a rehash of the rules closer to warhammer 8th edition, I just want the world I grew up in the hobby in to return, to have death mean something in that world, not to have the gods be present in every day life. On that day I will return to Warhammer Fantasy Battles as a full supporter.
Till then I will without a doubt direct every person who asks about Age of Sigmar to Kings of War, to Frost Grave, to Vanguard to every other game but AoS.
Albino Squirrel wrote: I sure hope they ignore all the terrible suggestions about bringing back the old world. Or squats.
I hope they listen to the suggestions about the old world. That is the only way they are going to get me back to playing their fantasy line. Seriously, if I wanted to play the bahagvita I would prefer it to be as such and not in a low magic filled world where gun powder is just as viable offence as magic is. Where hero's die instead of being 're-born' again and again till there is nothing original left about them. Then again, it is a crap shoot to say the least. The only way now that I can see it brought back is a complete destruction of the future of AoS and they bring the current models back in time to right before the end times and change the future, after all time is wonky with the warp. I don't mind a rehash of the rules closer to warhammer 8th edition, I just want the world I grew up in the hobby in to return, to have death mean something in that world, not to have the gods be present in every day life. On that day I will return to Warhammer Fantasy Battles as a full supporter.
Till then I will without a doubt direct every person who asks about Age of Sigmar to Kings of War, to Frost Grave, to Vanguard to every other game but AoS.
Yadda yadda opinions. I praised AoS for bringing me back to Fantasy after 7th and 8th drove me away. Bad ruleset, the fluff was incredibly stale at that point with nothing fresh to pull me in. So i'll agree with the original quote. Let old fantasy pass and be remembered fondly rather than try and force a zombie to keep living.
Well there's no reason those people can't play all those games and AoS as well. All of them having easy entry barriers make that quite possible and equally appealing (plus how easy it is to proxy the models in between them).
Hulksmash wrote: I almost criticized price and then looked at how much I spent annually and figured they'd just wave that away. So I went after proof reading and match play balance.
Which a problem with the survey. I bet you probably still spend, just not on GW.
The only way the stuff about sculpts in that last paragraph is true is if you linked to the wrong websites.
Perhaps personal opinion then. Nothing GW is really amazing. Skulls everywhere and everything completely out of proportion. The old Tau stealth suits looked better than the new, and the best suits are Forgeworld. Marines generally are pretty good, but mostly due to large flat surfaces.
Most of their (GW) work tends to be overly chunky any more.
While still a bit out of proportion, most historical figs are much better scaled to themselves.
Spoiler:
Aventine also does some really nice republican romans.
Fireforge are at least as good as Empire troops, and look less 'blobby'.
Spoiler:
Agree to disagree then
Automatically Appended Next Post:
SickSix wrote: My only criticisms were price and changing established cannon just to sell new models.
I did say once 'old marines' are phased out I am done.
Yeah, I hated Rogue Trader->second transition as well.
Such a shame the sexiest man babies have *immediately* polluted the comments. Nice, big positive initiative and they just *have* to pile in and be donkey-caves. Hey ho.
JohnnyHell wrote: Such a shame the sexiest man babies have *immediately* polluted the comments. Nice, big positive initiative and they just *have* to pile in and be donkey-caves. Hey ho.
What are you talking about? Im sure theres a good bunch of trolling but theres have been some kind of organised attempt?
JohnnyHell wrote: Such a shame the sexiest man babies have *immediately* polluted the comments. Nice, big positive initiative and they just *have* to pile in and be donkey-caves. Hey ho.
What are you talking about? Im sure theres a good bunch of trolling but theres have been some kind of organised attempt?
They flock together. It's not trolling when people are expressing these views. It's what they think. Not organised, didn't ever say that, but still problematic. The guys posting anti-feminist stuff in the FB comments all seem to be married or have daughters which makes it doubly sad. Anyway, merely lamenting, let's not get drawn into a spat here.
I hope it's used well. The danger in corporate companies running surveys is that they select what props up their existing plans and use it to validate, spin the middle stuff and outright ignore anything that's against plans already in motion
True. The danger is always there. I like to stay positive and think that if they went to the trouble of compiling all that data (and ask us in the first place), they may as well try and do something useful with it. But you never know until it happens (or doesn't).
I wouldn't expect GW to make big changes to plans already in motion; sometimes you have to go through with a choice even if its not the best, because you've already invested too much time and money to stop the process without taking a huge loss (or crippling your short term cash flow).
That said I'd expect them to use the survey to hopefully get validation for choices that they have made as well as to get ideas of where to take things in the future. I'd not expect to see big actual changes very fast,esp since most big changes would take months to pull together anyway.
JohnnyHell wrote: Such a shame the sexiest man babies have *immediately* polluted the comments. Nice, big positive initiative and they just *have* to pile in and be donkey-caves. Hey ho.
What are you talking about? Im sure theres a good bunch of trolling but theres have been some kind of organised attempt?
They flock together. It's not trolling when people are expressing these views. It's what they think. Not organised, didn't ever say that, but still problematic. The guys posting anti-feminist stuff in the FB comments all seem to be married or have daughters which makes it doubly sad. Anyway, merely lamenting, let's not get drawn into a spat here.
That's nice of you to insult people and then say you don't want to get drawn into a spat, very nice.
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My main curiosity on this is how will they actually go through the data. 100k entries with a good amount of open ended questions. No matter how you handle it it is going to be a challenge.
But hey, at least they now have an actual number to many things, like "how many people would fill a survery if we had one" even just this can be useful.
My main curiosity on this is how will they actually go through the data. 100k entries with a good amount of open ended questions. No matter how you handle it it is going to be a challenge.
Id say you use it as input for that chatbot botnik; then when its a good amalgum of us all you can ask it questions.
pizzaguardian wrote: My main curiosity on this is how will they actually go through the data. 100k entries with a good amount of open ended questions. No matter how you handle it it is going to be a challenge.
But hey, at least they now have an actual number to many things, like "how many people would fill a survery if we had one" even just this can be useful.
Most likely, the have bought this survey from a company that specializes in that kind of thing and the will evaluate and compile the data for them, probably through some semi-automated process.
pizzaguardian wrote: My main curiosity on this is how will they actually go through the data. 100k entries with a good amount of open ended questions. No matter how you handle it it is going to be a challenge.
But hey, at least they now have an actual number to many things, like "how many people would fill a survery if we had one" even just this can be useful.
Most likely, the have bought this survey from a company that specializes in that kind of thing and the will evaluate and compile the data for them, probably through some semi-automated process.
Probably.
They'll get a report on glossy paper with colored graphs and pie charts.
"60% of the respondents want lower prices, 44% want plastic sisters, and 13% must be landscapers because they want a return of something called leaf blower?"
pizzaguardian wrote: My main curiosity on this is how will they actually go through the data. 100k entries with a good amount of open ended questions. No matter how you handle it it is going to be a challenge.
But hey, at least they now have an actual number to many things, like "how many people would fill a survery if we had one" even just this can be useful.
Most likely, the have bought this survey from a company that specializes in that kind of thing and the will evaluate and compile the data for them, probably through some semi-automated process.
Probably.
They'll get a report on glossy paper with colored graphs and pie charts.
"60% of the respondents want lower prices, 44% want plastic sisters, and 13% must be landscapers because they want a return of something called leaf blower?"
I imagine GW interpreting this data will be hilarious.
“Apparently 23% of respondants want... less Space Marine releases? I assume that means they want more lasweaponry on Primaris.”
“43 people said they want a Citadel Airbrush, 15 want a Citadel Hairbrush”
“5% of respondants want to... set Forge World on fire?”
“60% of respondants want lower prices, 3% misread the question and asked for higher prices”
“60% said to make the rules better, 5% want to make the rules worse, and 35% said they really don’t care but they’ll either defend or hate GW’s decision to the death regardless of what you do.”
“2% of the community wants to buy two characters a boat?”
I want named Slaanesh daemons! We have ONE!! All the others have 3 or 4!
We have The Masque; who is an outcast anyway!
Tzeentch has Scribes, Kairos, Changeling
Khorne has Skarbrand (also an outcast), Karanak and Skulltaker
Nurgle has Epidemius, Ku’Gath (possibly removed?) and the new slug-boy
We have one outcast. Seriously. Bring me a naked KoS in the new box and Azazel, and I’m happy.
I’m skeptical that much will be done with this data. Our company uses Survey Monkey and some of the hair-brained conclusions that come out of it are pretty astonishing. Generally the best information you get out of this sort of survey is what ISN’T working for you - not any why it’s not working an nothing on which to base what to shoot for what WILL work for you.
For the latter, you need a different type of survey/method, as people have a tendancy to push for dream items they really won’t back if you did attempt to appease them.
The best reference to Squats was from an old Citadel Journal where, in answer to "What's happening with the Squats" the response was "Don't you get those after 4 pints and a curry?"
I tried not to complain but give honest feedback. I used the phrases "plastic sisters" & "unsquat my squats" only once.
I did tell them that they've been moving in the right direction and as long as they listen to the survey, they should succeed with their current direction.
This is coming from someone who ditched 40k and wargaming in general for 25yrs and the release of 8th got me hopeful and want to play again.
I'm currently finishing up a couple of forgeworld models that you otherwise wouldn't have purchased without the changes that make 8th excellent.
Are they doing everything right? No, but sure as hell seems like they want to.
So I will continue spending money on their products rather than not.
I remember years ago some rep said something about Squats when asked: there's a clock in GW headquarters that counts down from 24 hours and when it hits 0 they will begin rebooting Squats. But any time anyone in the world mentions Squats, the timer resets. It was a humorous way of saying 'never' but I've always wanted to see a warhammer TV video where someone knocks the clock off the wall and breaks it so it reboots to 0.
I asked for the kits to be a bit more customizable. I was working on blight kings when I did the survey. That kit amazed me for its details but disappointed me a lot about arm orientation and permutation. I said to me that was a step back with respect to the 3rd edition minis.
It was quick and fun. I wrote them to create an official forum.
), which is something I would actually buy.
