So, this came up in another topic and I couldn't find a topic where it had been discussed in depth. Do you expect an expanded range for new Sisters? New units? Old units? More weapon options or sticking with the 'holy trinity'? New characters?

Are Deathguard the only army under "new GW" to upgrade old forces (and even then it was only one or two units)? They've done it a bit with AoS but they;d usually keep a few of the older models around there...

It'll be interesting as it's the first time GW has done something like this in a looong time, especially with community testing!

Hopefully the model is a big success and they feel they can repeat this with say an Eldar aspect warrior release or regular chaos space marine.

Holy trinity and possibly crossbows.

The rest depends in part on how much GW wants to end it's metal production. Simply replacing the old models would be a pretty hefty release in the scheme of things.

Dai wrote:
Are Deathguard the only army under "new GW" to upgrade old forces (and even then it was only one or two units)? They've done it a bit with AoS but they;d usually keep a few of the older models around there...

It'll be interesting as it's the first time GW has done something like this in a looong time, especially with community testing!

Hopefully the model is a big success and they feel they can repeat this with say an Eldar aspect warrior release or regular chaos space marine.

It did feel like a 'let's try something a bit different and see what happens' when GW announced it, and even more so when they announced the beta codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

A.T. wrote:
Holy trinity and possibly crossbows.

The rest depends in part on how much GW wants to end it's metal production. Simply replacing the old models would be a pretty hefty release in the scheme of things.

I agree, but it wouldn't necessarily have old players rushing out to spend their money either. The fact that it came form the players rather than GW puts the question of how much they want to end metal production in a bit of an odd place too...

Multi-pose models. I don't want to build two of the same model for each box I buy. I don't have the highest hopes.

As for releases, Celestians, BSS, Dominions, and Retributers could easily be one box. Just make sure you have enough special and heavy weapons to cover them.

That leaves separate packs for: Repentia and Seriphim.

All four tanks could be one kit, though it would probably be split to rhino/immolator, and repressor/exorcist (assuming we see a plastic repressor)
That leaves Cannonesses, Imagifers, mistresses, and hospitallars in blisters.

That's five boxes, and four blisters.

 Mmmpi wrote:
Multi-pose models. I don't want to build two of the same model for each box I buy. I don't have the highest hopes.

As for releases, Celestians, BSS, Dominions, and Retributers could easily be one box. Just make sure you have enough special and heavy weapons to cover them.

That leaves separate packs for: Repentia and Seriphim.

All four tanks could be one kit, though it would probably be split to rhino/immolator, and repressor/exorcist (assuming we see a plastic repressor)
That leaves Cannonesses, Imagifers, mistresses, and hospitallars in blisters.

That's five boxes, and four blisters.

Multi-pose? Probably not, because of all the robes on the arms.

Celestians and BSS as one box, Dominions/Retributors as another. GW likes double purpose boxes. You'll get 1 of each special/heavy in the BSS box and 2 of each in Dominion box, b/c GW is evil and never gives the maximum allowed in a squad. Probably slight differences between the two boxes, armor wise.

Seraphim will get a box of their own, they may have a variant. Repentia might get squatted in favor of something new.

Given the Primaris push, I doubt we'll see a new Rhino, but a Repressor/Exorcist sprue(s) are possible.

I wouldn't be surprised if GW rolled most of the Elites into a Command Squad that could make a variety of 5 models. I really hope we get a Jump Pack Cannonness blister.

Dai wrote:
Are Deathguard the only army under "new GW" to upgrade old forces (and even then it was only one or two units)? They've done it a bit with AoS but they;d usually keep a few of the older models around there...

It'll be interesting as it's the first time GW has done something like this in a looong time, especially with community testing!

Hopefully the model is a big success and they feel they can repeat this with say an Eldar aspect warrior release or regular chaos space marine.

Daughters of Khaine was a huge upgrade from the old Witch Elves.

I have several hundred sisters from various ranges so looking forward to something new - some kneeling or lying down shooting would be good - hell if they just do them like this be more than happy.



Celestians in Artifcer armour would be good (as would a Canoness) - a couple of new character models would be awesome.

Less likely but hoping for some new units - a large Shrine Superheavy

 John Prins wrote:
Multi-pose? Probably not, because of all the robes on the arms.

Celestians and BSS as one box, Dominions/Retributors as another. GW likes double purpose boxes. You'll get 1 of each special/heavy in the BSS box and 2 of each in Dominion box, b/c GW is evil and never gives the maximum allowed in a squad. Probably slight differences between the two boxes, armor wise.

Seraphim will get a box of their own, they may have a variant. Repentia might get squatted in favor of something new.

Given the Primaris push, I doubt we'll see a new Rhino, but a Repressor/Exorcist sprue(s) are possible.

I wouldn't be surprised if GW rolled most of the Elites into a Command Squad that could make a variety of 5 models. I really hope we get a Jump Pack Cannonness blister.

I might be wrong - but I think the idea of a seperate Dominion/Retributor box which is just BSS but with more gubbinz is highly unlikely.

I think we are moving away from the 3rd edition staple of "unit" "veteran unit" "unit with specials" "unit with heavy weapons" that you found in so many lists. They are just not fun boxes for GW to design sell.

So I expect they will do something different.

I expect most if not all the plastic kits to be for new Datasheets, rather than for ones with existing models.

This is the modus operandi for all releases this edition.

So we'll get a unit of Sisters with Bolters, but with the Primaris Intercessor treatment. And so on.

Tyel wrote:

 John Prins wrote:
Multi-pose? Probably not, because of all the robes on the arms.

Celestians and BSS as one box, Dominions/Retributors as another. GW likes double purpose boxes. You'll get 1 of each special/heavy in the BSS box and 2 of each in Dominion box, b/c GW is evil and never gives the maximum allowed in a squad. Probably slight differences between the two boxes, armor wise.

Seraphim will get a box of their own, they may have a variant. Repentia might get squatted in favor of something new.

Given the Primaris push, I doubt we'll see a new Rhino, but a Repressor/Exorcist sprue(s) are possible.

I wouldn't be surprised if GW rolled most of the Elites into a Command Squad that could make a variety of 5 models. I really hope we get a Jump Pack Cannonness blister.

I might be wrong - but I think the idea of a seperate Dominion/Retributor box which is just BSS but with more gubbinz is highly unlikely.

I think we are moving away from the 3rd edition staple of "unit" "veteran unit" "unit with specials" "unit with heavy weapons" that you found in so many lists. They are just not fun boxes for GW to design sell.

So I expect they will do something different.

Could be a box for BSS/Dominions/Retributors and a box for Command/Celestians similar to the Scions box.

Big thing for me with Sisters is they're the most over the topic gothic army in 40k, and I'm a big fan of that look and all the pseudo-religious imagery. I hope they double down on that look.

More variety in heads/faces looks would be nice as well.

Well.. having went through sob getting almost nothing and even just a WD rules at one point.

I expect only 5 kits in plastic

1 10man kit to make every unit htat uses the basic BSS, so BSS, Doms, Rets, Celestines, etc..
1 Seraphim kit (HOPEFULLY with HQ upgrade but im not getting my hopes up)
2 new vehicle kit's Immolator and Exorcist
1 more Penitent engine

There was mention in a community page a while back of novitiates. If there is any expansion, id expect to see them probably as our chaff unit.
Dont expect to see a repressor model or combined kit come out as thats forge world and i cant think of any model that was forge world being snatched up by GW.

Rhino/immolator kit already exists so thats a given.
Hoping for plastic exorcist and pengine.

Im rather hopeful with what weve seen so far. GW dont seem to be deviating from the gothic loom of the sisters and seem to be even taking it up a notch what with the flamers having that brazier look to them.

As for new things? The novitiates as i said are the only things hinted at so far. So really until GW comes out with another tease or you til CA, all we have is wishlisting.

I know i want zero deviation from the holy trinity. Plasma pistols are bad enough. Can see GW maybe giving us some different variations on the holy trinity- suuped up melta/multimelta, wider access to condemnor boltguns, flamer that are good.

Metal Bikinis and Purple Penetrator close combat weapons.

I just hope there's enough helmets in the box for the whole squad

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Dont expect to see a repressor model or combined kit come out as thats forge world and i cant think of any model that was forge world being snatched up by GW.

Baneblade and hydra comes to mind instantly.

 fraser1191 wrote:
I just hope there's enough helmets in the box for the whole squad

Me too. First, because SoB helmets are really cool. Second, because someone at GW seems to be stuck in the early 90's and insists on every sci-fi women to have an atrociously ugly bobcut. Third, because I can't paint faces even if my life depended on it.

On another note, I expect Sisters to gain a box set of five Sister that can be Dominion, Retributor, Sisters of Battle or Celestian. I expect a blister pack for the Canoness and maybe Sister Hospitalier. A new Rhino, Exorcist. A new squad of Seraphim. I think we will be stuck with the old models of Repentia and Penitent Engines. Maybe, maybe something entirely new like a suad of stealth sisters or novices, etc.

Please squash forever the lazy idea of porting scouts to Sisters and calling them novitiates. 12 year old school girl nuns-to-be makes as much sense as Inquisitorial stormtroopers wearing shorts and ball caps looking for merit badges while they get murdered by everything.

 dracpanzer wrote:
Please squash forever the lazy idea of porting scouts to Sisters and calling them novitiates. 12 year old school girl nuns-to-be makes as much sense as Inquisitorial stormtroopers wearing shorts and ball caps looking for merit badges while they get murdered by everything.

Think of it more as 18-21 year old women that didn't quite make the devotional cut to become full SoB, but are still permitted to fight with inferior weapons and armor. Double bonus points if they're armed like Imperial Guard, as people could use them as female Imperial Guard.

 dracpanzer wrote:
Please squash forever the lazy idea of porting scouts to Sisters and calling them novitiates. 12 year old school girl nuns-to-be makes as much sense as Inquisitorial stormtroopers wearing shorts and ball caps looking for merit badges while they get murdered by everything.

In the Sororitas fandex I produced a few years back, Novice where at minimum 16 years old (12 to 15 at the exit of hte scholam plus about 4 more years of training at the covent prioris on Terra or Ophelia VII). They wear power armor, but don't have boltgun, only bolt pistols and close combat weapon (or two bolt pistols). I indended them to be used as cheaper Sisters of Battle as to spam more 3+ armor save bodies on the board. Basically giving the option to Sisters to horde. Steath Sisters should be vets in my opinion a bit like it's the case in all armies except Space Marines where 16 years rocky get to handle scout duties. Yes to novice, but no to novice being wannabe scouts.

A few new kits, several new characters, the most important metal kits being replaced and having new types of wargear so you'll have to buy them to have all the options in your codex. I'd definitely look to the Death Guard release as a model for what GW wants out of their new armies (and lets face it, Sisters are so old at this point that making them plastic means they're functionally a new army as much as rebooting GSC was).

Model wise, I hope they lean a bit more towards the renascence and church theme than the sci-fi side

 Arachnofiend wrote:
A few new kits, several new characters, the most important metal kits being replaced and having new types of wargear so you'll have to buy them to have all the options in your codex. I'd definitely look to the Death Guard release as a model for what GW wants out of their new armies (and lets face it, Sisters are so old at this point that making them plastic means they're functionally a new army as much as rebooting GSC was).

I think GW'll mostly keep to the core units for sisters we all know and love, they're an iconic look and the old minis are ancient metal ones so there isn't the worry a resculpt would normally have of "minimal sales because everyone has assault marines and really doesn't need "an assault marine with an eviscriator" that said I expect some new models to be added to the line. and I expect to see new OPTIONS for the old stuff

I expect the core units of Battle Sisters, Retributors, Dominions, and possibly Celestins to be turned into a plastic kit with a few new options to encourage purchase of the kit by legacy SOB players.

I expect the Seraphim to be transformed into a plastic kit, also with new options to encourage purchases by legacy SOB players.

I expect they will somehow revise the look, if not the concept, of Repentia in a new plastic kit that could conceivably be a dual kit of some sort.

I expect a plastic kit for the Exorcist.

I expect the Rhino/Immolator kit to stay exactly as it is.

I expect they will surprise us with something new.

tneva82 wrote:

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Dont expect to see a repressor model or combined kit come out as thats forge world and i cant think of any model that was forge world being snatched up by GW.

Baneblade and hydra comes to mind instantly.

Drop pods.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What I want?
I want all the existing SoB units to be present in the list.
I want a new exorcist kit - I've never liked the missile launching pipe organ design, & although my FW missile pods are OK I'd still like something cooler looking.

What I expect?
Plastic kits. Probably for existing stuff. Definitely for any new stuff.
Playable rules.
Unplayable rules.
Much wailing & nashing of teeth by others about something or other.

They basically have to do new units if they want Adepta Sororitas rather than Adeptus Ministorum.

Without the ministorum units the sisters book would be like 12 units and you'd only need like 2 infantry boxes and a tank box to make everything. Also we only have 1 generic HQ.

ERJAK wrote:
They basically have to do new units if they want Adepta Sororitas rather than Adeptus Ministorum.

It would be a real shame to lose the ministorum. It's what helps to make the sisters not -1 strength marines.

ERJAK wrote:
They basically have to do new units if they want Adepta Sororitas rather than Adeptus Ministorum.

Without the ministorum units the sisters book would be like 12 units and you'd only need like 2 infantry boxes and a tank box to make everything. Also we only have 1 generic HQ.

And? the Custodes have about 8 units not including HQs, which outside of Trajan are just something you build from the infantry kits (which isn't a criticism at all and in fact I think was a GREAT idea) despite sisters being such an old and respected line we need to realize that assuming a COMPLETE relaunch of the line in plastic we need to temper our expectations a bit.

tneva82 wrote:

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Dont expect to see a repressor model or combined kit come out as thats forge world and i cant think of any model that was forge world being snatched up by GW.

Baneblade and hydra comes to mind instantly.

Also Valkyries, Pirahnas, Trygons, Leman Russ Executioners and Vanquishers, Contemptor Dreads...

Guess he didn't think very hard on that one.

BrianDavion wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
They basically have to do new units if they want Adepta Sororitas rather than Adeptus Ministorum.

Without the ministorum units the sisters book would be like 12 units and you'd only need like 2 infantry boxes and a tank box to make everything. Also we only have 1 generic HQ.

And? the Custodes have about 8 units not including HQs, which outside of Trajan are just something you build from the infantry kits (which isn't a criticism at all and in fact I think was a GREAT idea) despite sisters being such an old and respected line we need to realize that assuming a COMPLETE relaunch of the line in plastic we need to temper our expectations a bit.

I didn't like how Custodes handled it personally. I would want the characters to stand out more than just 'isnt wearing a helmet'. Especially as I think they look way better with the helmet on.

It COULD be done well, but for me the Custodians weren't it. Likely mostly because the kit wasn't originally designed to have a proper Character option, it was just a squad sargent at the time.

 Stux wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
They basically have to do new units if they want Adepta Sororitas rather than Adeptus Ministorum.

Without the ministorum units the sisters book would be like 12 units and you'd only need like 2 infantry boxes and a tank box to make everything. Also we only have 1 generic HQ.

And? the Custodes have about 8 units not including HQs, which outside of Trajan are just something you build from the infantry kits (which isn't a criticism at all and in fact I think was a GREAT idea) despite sisters being such an old and respected line we need to realize that assuming a COMPLETE relaunch of the line in plastic we need to temper our expectations a bit.

I didn't like how Custodes handled it personally. I would want the characters to stand out more than just 'isnt wearing a helmet'. Especially as I think they look way better with the helmet on.

It COULD be done well, but for me the Custodians weren't it. Likely mostly because the kit wasn't originally designed to have a proper Character option, it was just a squad sargent at the time.

well there's more then "no helmet" the shield captains also have a cape, although regarding the BIKE Captains you're dead on there, although there is also some subtle shoulder pad details that differs.

BrianDavion wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
They basically have to do new units if they want Adepta Sororitas rather than Adeptus Ministorum.

Without the ministorum units the sisters book would be like 12 units and you'd only need like 2 infantry boxes and a tank box to make everything. Also we only have 1 generic HQ.

And? the Custodes have about 8 units not including HQs, which outside of Trajan are just something you build from the infantry kits (which isn't a criticism at all and in fact I think was a GREAT idea) despite sisters being such an old and respected line we need to realize that assuming a COMPLETE relaunch of the line in plastic we need to temper our expectations a bit.

Except Custodes were a mistake that ultimately resulted in an army that only has one unit and its associated HQ choice, AND could have drawn on a vast line of forgeworld support if GW/Forgeworld relations didn't utterly drop the ball. Sisters got none of that.

There's no reason to not expect a full reboot of the line considering that even a Deathguard size release(7 kits i believe) would be enough to reboot everything AND add 2-3 new units.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Stux wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
They basically have to do new units if they want Adepta Sororitas rather than Adeptus Ministorum.

Without the ministorum units the sisters book would be like 12 units and you'd only need like 2 infantry boxes and a tank box to make everything. Also we only have 1 generic HQ.

And? the Custodes have about 8 units not including HQs, which outside of Trajan are just something you build from the infantry kits (which isn't a criticism at all and in fact I think was a GREAT idea) despite sisters being such an old and respected line we need to realize that assuming a COMPLETE relaunch of the line in plastic we need to temper our expectations a bit.

I didn't like how Custodes handled it personally. I would want the characters to stand out more than just 'isnt wearing a helmet'. Especially as I think they look way better with the helmet on.

It COULD be done well, but for me the Custodians weren't it. Likely mostly because the kit wasn't originally designed to have a proper Character option, it was just a squad sargent at the time.

well there's more then "no helmet" the shield captains also have a cape, although regarding the BIKE Captains you're dead on there, although there is also some subtle shoulder pad details that differs.

I totally blanked on the cape, that's fair! I used mine as part of a kitbash on a Marine so forgot about it

Some heavy weapons like these would be nice

What I'd like to see:
Our current infantry line [BSS, Doms, Rets, Seraphim] in plastic as faithful recreations of their current models.
Enough heads to completely eschew helmets. I prefer helmetless models, but I know some people don't, and I think that providing options the way the Scions kit has 2 sets of heads [masked and hatted] would be nice.
Enough special weapons to achieve maximum legal special weapon density per squad box. That is, since BSS can have 2 special weapons, I'd like to see the box have 2 Meltas, 2 Flamers, and 2 Storm Bolters. Dominions should have 4 of each special weapon in their box. It's frustrating how Devastators only come with 2 Lascannons when the squad can take 4, and how IG boxes don't come with meltaguns or plasmaguns.
Jetpacks for Canonesses. They're too damn slow to keep up with the army, and confer their buff, and we need to have too many of them to field an army.
A Lieutenant-equivalent HQ. We used to have one in days gone by.
I would also like to see Repentia re-done, with less leather and chains and BDSM-stuff and more dressed-in-scripture sort of look.

What I expect:
A couple of new units, that are supposedly way better than the originals. After all, the project will probably not be drastically successful if they don't have something for current Sisters players to buy lots of.
Larger bases. All other power armored units are on 32mm base; including SoS, who are power-armored human females. The base creep is kind of inconvenient, since while I don't care enough to re-base my Space Wolves, I'd definitely stop to re-base my Sisters. That said, I see the value of enlarged bases, and won't complain too bitterly.



A couple of other more mechanical things I'd like to see, but probably won't.
An ability to take characters along with squads acting under Hand of the Emperor.
More sources of additional Acts of Faith, with improved reliability. I'm very dissatisfied with the 50/50 shot Imagifiers offer, even if they were cheaper it'd be too unreliable for me to base my list on getting it. I'd like to see AoF granting units grant their AoF automatically or on a 2+. As an addendum, I'd like to see Canonesses grant Acts of Faith, because they're kind of aggressively useless as is, and it would be nice to get AoF's with our mandatory HQ's.
Characters to not break Dominions' Vanguard move. Again, the army [the good units, at least: Dominions, Seraphim] moves too quickly for it's support, and there's no way to keep the aura buffs with the units they need to buff.
Finally, I would very much to see Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors and Acolyetes as options, since I think that the Inquisitors best option is to be folded in with their orders militant. That said, they're still missing from the Grey Knights book, so I don't think we'll see this.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Finally, I would very much to see Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors and Acolyetes as options, since I think that the Inquisitors best option is to be folded in with their orders militant. That said, they're still missing from the Grey Knights book, so I don't think we'll see this.

Yes! Oh this would go so far to fixing inquisition. Bring back codex witch hunters. Such a pain needing to take 4 detachments to remake the army that got me into 40k.

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Finally, I would very much to see Ordo Hereticus Inquisitors and Acolyetes as options, since I think that the Inquisitors best option is to be folded in with their orders militant. That said, they're still missing from the Grey Knights book, so I don't think we'll see this.

Yes! Oh this would go so far to fixing inquisition. Bring back codex witch hunters. Such a pain needing to take 4 detachments to remake the army that got me into 40k.

Oh yes. I'd like to see Codex: Witch Hunters, Codex: Daemonhunters, and Codex: Xenos Hunters, instead of what we have. But, unfortunately, it seems not to be.

ERJAK wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

ERJAK wrote:
They basically have to do new units if they want Adepta Sororitas rather than Adeptus Ministorum.

Without the ministorum units the sisters book would be like 12 units and you'd only need like 2 infantry boxes and a tank box to make everything. Also we only have 1 generic HQ.

And? the Custodes have about 8 units not including HQs, which outside of Trajan are just something you build from the infantry kits (which isn't a criticism at all and in fact I think was a GREAT idea) despite sisters being such an old and respected line we need to realize that assuming a COMPLETE relaunch of the line in plastic we need to temper our expectations a bit.

Except Custodes were a mistake that ultimately resulted in an army that only has one unit and its associated HQ choice, AND could have drawn on a vast line of forgeworld support if GW/Forgeworld relations didn't utterly drop the ball. Sisters got none of that.

There's no reason to not expect a full reboot of the line considering that even a Deathguard size release(7 kits i believe) would be enough to reboot everything AND add 2-3 new units.

my point is arguing "we should expect something enw too because our army would be a dozen or so units" is a bad arguement as GW has happily done armies with a dozen or less units. anmd frankly I'd rather a good balanced codex then one with a million unit but only 3 playable ones.

I feel like if we had Codex: Xenos Hunters instead of Codex: Deathwatch we'd just have the people who wanted to play Deathwatch upset that their army has all these regular dudes in it. We've already got the same deal going on with CSM players grumbling about their armies having 120 cultists and no marines. Pairing factions that have a common cultural identity in the same book but are very different mechanically is naturally something that'll make some people quite happy and annoy others.

I'm hoping for a redone repressor/immolator/exorcist upgrade kit for the humble rhino.

Probably a 1 size fits all sisters box with various assortments of heavy and special weapons.

A box of Jump Infantry with options.

Either a redone repentia box, or an all new melee focused sisters box to give sisters some much needed CC.

Plastic Cannoness with all the gubbins (jump pack, etc)

Plastic Penitence Engine with perhaps new weapon options (heavy bolters, Multi-Melta, etc)

Wish-list tier: Access to Inquisition and with it, more access to common imperium vehicles (Predator or Leman Russ tanks for example, maybe even a flyer).

As for gameplay, I would enjoy either chapter tactics or stratagems to buff the ever living hell out of the Holy Trinity of weapons. Perhaps something that lets meltas shoot further, or heavy bolters doing more damage, maybe a way to buff flamers/heavy flamers.

I've never played sisters before, but I always wanted to, just the price and lack of plastic made it hard for me to rationalize collecting them.

What I want:

Sisters Terminator equivalent with storm shields and relic blades.

Seraphim with two handed great swords

Sisters on Bikes with Lances and Storm Shields

A giant rolling Cathedral Tank.

We will probably get none of these things...

Also, If I see a single inch of flat armour without a filigree, skull, angel wings, parchment or fleur du lis I will be very disappointed.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I feel like if we had Codex: Xenos Hunters instead of Codex: Deathwatch we'd just have the people who wanted to play Deathwatch upset that their army has all these regular dudes in it. We've already got the same deal going on with CSM players grumbling about their armies having 120 cultists and no marines. Pairing factions that have a common cultural identity in the same book but are very different mechanically is naturally something that'll make some people quite happy and annoy others.

We used to be Witch Hunters and Daemonhunters.

And all things considered, I think it's the "right" way to incorporate the Inquisitors and their henchmen. It's the way it was done, and they were in the GK book up until recently, if I remember correctly. Also, like, isn't the whole point of the Deathwatch being the Inquisitorial Ordo Xenos Space Marines?

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I feel like if we had Codex: Xenos Hunters instead of Codex: Deathwatch we'd just have the people who wanted to play Deathwatch upset that their army has all these regular dudes in it. We've already got the same deal going on with CSM players grumbling about their armies having 120 cultists and no marines. Pairing factions that have a common cultural identity in the same book but are very different mechanically is naturally something that'll make some people quite happy and annoy others.

We used to be Witch Hunters and Daemonhunters.

And all things considered, I think it's the "right" way to incorporate the Inquisitors and their henchmen. It's the way it was done, and they were in the GK book up until recently, if I remember correctly. Also, like, isn't the whole point of the Deathwatch being the Inquisitorial Ordo Xenos Space Marines?

The issue when they were in the GK book was there was no way to take an Inquisitor with out having to take Grey Knights which was weird and wonky. I don't mind them getting folded into another book as long as there is a way to take just an inquisitor and optional retinue.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I feel like if we had Codex: Xenos Hunters instead of Codex: Deathwatch we'd just have the people who wanted to play Deathwatch upset that their army has all these regular dudes in it. We've already got the same deal going on with CSM players grumbling about their armies having 120 cultists and no marines. Pairing factions that have a common cultural identity in the same book but are very different mechanically is naturally something that'll make some people quite happy and annoy others.

We used to be Witch Hunters and Daemonhunters.

And all things considered, I think it's the "right" way to incorporate the Inquisitors and their henchmen. It's the way it was done, and they were in the GK book up until recently, if I remember correctly. Also, like, isn't the whole point of the Deathwatch being the Inquisitorial Ordo Xenos Space Marines?

Depends on who you ask, personally I couldn't give less of a damn about the fluff of the Deathwatch (in the end they're loyalist marines through and through and therefore entirely uninteresting to me) and what catches my eye is the kill team organization and the unusually powerful bolters. Naturally this means I'm not interested in a Deathwatch army since I have to be invested in both the mechanics and the aesthetics to want to build something but I'm sure there are players who lean more heavily towards the mechanics who would be annoyed if their hyper-elite dudes with super special boltguns were not designed to be fielded as an army and were simply part of a larger force that includes regular joes.

Again, the Chaos example. Cultists make exactly as much sense as an inclusion in the CSM codex for exactly the same reasons Inquisitorial forces make sense as part of the GK/DW codexes, but a lot of people (myself included) are dissatisfied with them since they throw off the mechanical theming of the army. I'd personally prefer a world where cultists aren't in the CSM book at all and are instead expanded into an entire Lost & the Damned faction of their own, though obviously that's just wishlisting.

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
I feel like if we had Codex: Xenos Hunters instead of Codex: Deathwatch we'd just have the people who wanted to play Deathwatch upset that their army has all these regular dudes in it. We've already got the same deal going on with CSM players grumbling about their armies having 120 cultists and no marines. Pairing factions that have a common cultural identity in the same book but are very different mechanically is naturally something that'll make some people quite happy and annoy others.

We used to be Witch Hunters and Daemonhunters.

And all things considered, I think it's the "right" way to incorporate the Inquisitors and their henchmen. It's the way it was done, and they were in the GK book up until recently, if I remember correctly. Also, like, isn't the whole point of the Deathwatch being the Inquisitorial Ordo Xenos Space Marines?

The issue when they were in the GK book was there was no way to take an Inquisitor with out having to take Grey Knights which was weird and wonky. I don't mind them getting folded into another book as long as there is a way to take just an inquisitor and optional retinue.

Obviously, it would be weird to have an Ordo Xenos or Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor running around with Grey Knights. They should run around with Deathwatch and Sisters, respectively, and presumably their command squad of Acolytes.

I think that the Ordo Malleus Inquisitor/Lord should be in the Grey Knights book, Ordo Xenos Inquisitor/Lord should be in the Deathwatch book, and Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor/Lord should be in the Sisters of Battle book. Obviously, since there are non-Inquisitor HQ options, you wouldn't have to have an Inquisitor, but it would give the Inquisitors appropriate ways to be fielded with their appropriate orders militant.


Anyway, based on this edition's precedent on Grey Knights and Deathwatch, I doubt we are going to get Inquisitors in our book. But it would be nice for the Inquisitors, without really affecting us or our "pure Sisters [/GK/DW]" armies in any way.


Back to Sisters wishlisting and speculation, I expect the codex to be nothing really to write home about, probably with most profiles directly ported from the index with no real in-depth look into what makes our faction tactically and strategically viable and unique. The previewed CAD files look nice, though, so the models will probably be nice.

 John Prins wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:
Please squash forever the lazy idea of porting scouts to Sisters and calling them novitiates. 12 year old school girl nuns-to-be makes as much sense as Inquisitorial stormtroopers wearing shorts and ball caps looking for merit badges while they get murdered by everything.

Think of it more as 18-21 year old women that didn't quite make the devotional cut to become full SoB, but are still permitted to fight with inferior weapons and armor. Double bonus points if they're armed like Imperial Guard, as people could use them as female Imperial Guard.

So you can be put in to the Repentia for minor transgressions. But if you flat out fail to make the cut, martial or spiritual, you get to sully the field where true Martyrs shed their blood? No thanks.

Really looking forward to the Sisters line.

First and foremost, I just hope they stick with the Gothic look (and I think they will based on previews). If they just make female Marines/guard then it's a failed release.

Plastic updates to the range. Though I'm ok if they just leave the Rhino/immolator kit as it is, if it means it makes room for another kit.

Would be cool to have a 'Zealous Mob' unit lead by a priest. Just a bunch of local citizens that get whipped into a frenzy by enthusiastic preaching.

I'd also like a foot based 'assault' unit, but all dual wielding pistols rather than CC weapons. Seraphim without the wings. A Seraphim varient with power lances would be cool too.

Would also be awesome if Sisters became the definitive anti-psycher faction. Sort of like the old Witchhunters Dex...except have the anti-psychic stuff actually work this time. I want a faction that makes certain armies (Thousand Sons, Chaos, Eldar, etc) think 'Oh S#!+'.

Stick with the Holy Trinity, flamers, meltas, Bolters. I know Plasma is 'in' right now, but it's not Sisters.

It will be interesting to see how they make Faith work. The whole Strategem system is basically derivative to how the old Sisters Acts of Faith worked. (Then it was removed supposedly because it was 'too hard to keep track of'... Then got it's name changed and applied to every army). Hopefully they don't just name their Strats 'Acts of Faith'.

New penitent engines as well, maybe ones that can actually be of some use on the battlefield too.

I'm not looking for much that is innovative or new though. If they just stick with the classic Sisters stuff and do it well, then I'll be plenty happy.

 Creeping Dementia wrote:
Would also be awesome if Sisters became the definitive anti-psycher faction. Sort of like the old Witchhunters Dex...except have the anti-psychic stuff actually work this time. I want a faction that makes certain armies (Thousand Sons, Chaos, Eldar, etc) think 'Oh S#!+'.

Aren't Tyranids already this with Shadow of the Warp? There's even a hive fleet choice that can be particularly ruinous to enemy psykers. I do agree with the idea that Sisters should have strong tools to fight psykers, though more as part of a general design philosophy where armies that lack a psychic element should all have strong tools against the psychic phase (my poor Necrons...).

 Arachnofiend wrote:

I'm sure there are players who lean more heavily towards the mechanics who would be annoyed if their hyper-elite dudes with super special boltguns were not designed to be fielded as an army and were simply part of a larger force that includes regular joes.

There's also players who would want to be able to field regular joes with their deathwatch troops. If they just added Scions (for example) to the Deathwatch book right now with the same stipulations as in the Guard book, would that disrupt the focus of the book?

I know that lots of grey knights players are upset they lost inquisition troops.
My brother's interest in Deathwatch hinges on running it as a part of a larger army (mostly stormtroopers) and not solo.

IDK though, I just feel that compartmentalizing these options is unnecessary and forces people to buy a lot of books just to run an army that is 100% fluffy.

epronovost wrote:
In the Sororitas fandex I produced a few years back, Novice where at minimum 16 years old (12 to 15 at the exit of hte scholam plus about 4 more years of training at the covent prioris on Terra or Ophelia VII). They wear power armor, but don't have boltgun, only bolt pistols and close combat weapon (or two bolt pistols). I indended them to be used as cheaper Sisters of Battle as to spam more 3+ armor save bodies on the board. Basically giving the option to Sisters to horde. Steath Sisters should be vets in my opinion a bit like it's the case in all armies except Space Marines where 16 years rocky get to handle scout duties. Yes to novice, but no to novice being wannabe scouts.

In a faction that views every piece of wargear as a relic, I just dont buy novices of any kind. There are a lot of other things they could do with troop choices but honestly they don't need to. Move Repentia over from Elites, give them the same unit size of BSS and change the Eviscerator into a chainsword, give them Angelic Visage and Martyrdom, make them 4-6 points. Who needs novices.

Oh, yeah, also, what's with the Seraphim Superior?

I know it's because she doesn't have a model option wielding anything other than a Power Sword/Plasma Pistol, but like, it would make me happy if she could have the pistol/CQC options of the other Sister Superiors. Power Axe wielding Seraphim Superior would be pretty nice.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Oh, yeah, also, what's with the Seraphim Superior?

I know it's because she doesn't have a model option wielding anything other than a Power Sword/Plasma Pistol, but like, it would make me happy if she could have the pistol/CQC options of the other Sister Superiors. Power Axe wielding Seraphim Superior would be pretty nice.

And Inferno Pistol!

What I hope for is what GW showed off with the test mini picture they released. Take the existing sisters line and make it plastic, multi pose and add some variations to the faces/ hair styles. The Immolator and Rhino kits are fine but the Exorcist and Represser could use a new kit. Keep the holy trinity and don't add any plasma. Plastic priests and if they absolutely have to get a chaff unit, do it through that. A priest leading a fired up mob of holy pilgrims. Some extra anti psyker stuff since that is a big part of their job.

What I expect. Gorgeous models with a bunch of new weapon options that are just slightly better than anything the old models could take. Probably some gigantic hover tank cause the Imperium suddenly can make those again. Some weird terminator equivalent. Maybe some terrain to go along with them based on the ork release. More clam pack characters with no options.

 dracpanzer wrote:
In a faction that views every piece of wargear as a relic, I just dont buy novices of any kind.

Well, pretty much all armies of the Imperium treats its gear as somehting sacred. The cloath used to polish a lasgun is blessed and there are mandatory prayers to lasguns. Venerating your gear is a feature of the Imperium, not a "bug" of the Sisters of Battle. Plus, Novice means youngest and least experimented Sister and in my opinion that means a young women who has been trained day and night for a minimum of 10 years by experst in their fields. They are extremely good soldiers and dangerous combattant, just less then one who has decades of experience on the battlefield and kept young and fit thanks to rejuvenat. At some point a Sister needs a first taste of combat in full gear and that to me is a Novice. Being young and green is in no way an obstacle to be a death machine on the battlefield which a Sister in full gear can certainly be in my opinion even with "only" a decade of intense military training.

There are a lot of other things they could do with troop choices but honestly they don't need to. Move Repentia over from Elites, give them the same unit size of BSS and change the Eviscerator into a chainsword, give them Angelic Visage and Martyrdom, make them 4-6 points. Who needs novices.

I did that too and strongly support the idea of cheaper Repentia armed with normal close combat weapons or something that allows them to hit at normal speed or accuracy with the Eviscerator as an option. Keeping them cheap and a little bit more versatile is certainly a good idea in my opinion. I would also hope the models to be a little less BDSM. Replace the gimp masks for hoods and cloaks, keep the loincloath and add scriptures and injuries to the model. I think they would look much better this way.

 dracpanzer wrote:

 John Prins wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:
Please squash forever the lazy idea of porting scouts to Sisters and calling them novitiates. 12 year old school girl nuns-to-be makes as much sense as Inquisitorial stormtroopers wearing shorts and ball caps looking for merit badges while they get murdered by everything.

Think of it more as 18-21 year old women that didn't quite make the devotional cut to become full SoB, but are still permitted to fight with inferior weapons and armor. Double bonus points if they're armed like Imperial Guard, as people could use them as female Imperial Guard.

So you can be put in to the Repentia for minor transgressions. But if you flat out fail to make the cut, martial or spiritual, you get to sully the field where true Martyrs shed their blood? No thanks.

Considering that every Imperial Guardsman takes the field with a fraction of the faith of even a failed Sister, yes. After all, the Emperor will let anyone die for Him, even abhumans!

Hmmm... after reading what everyone else has said, I'm now doubting we'll see a plastic kit for the Prioris Pattern Exorcist, which would be a shame.

I think the single infantry kit and a Seraphim kit is going to be the basis of the update. I would like to see a kit for Celestians too, though. Maybe with more Artifice-y armour?

How would people about a Abbess Sabrina (or similar) model?

Lammia wrote:
Hmmm... after reading what everyone else has said, I'm now doubting we'll see a plastic kit for the Prioris Pattern Exorcist, which would be a shame.

I think the single infantry kit and a Seraphim kit is going to be the basis of the update. I would like to see a kit for Celestians too, though. Maybe with more Artifice-y armour?

How would people about a Abbess Sabrina (or similar) model?

If sisters are going to get a vehicle kit ( which I actually thing is likely) it will be something new. GW's last few releases have made clear that it is generally not interested in redoing older kits but instead releasing something new since they think that will sell better.

 John Prins wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:

 John Prins wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:
Please squash forever the lazy idea of porting scouts to Sisters and calling them novitiates. 12 year old school girl nuns-to-be makes as much sense as Inquisitorial stormtroopers wearing shorts and ball caps looking for merit badges while they get murdered by everything.

Think of it more as 18-21 year old women that didn't quite make the devotional cut to become full SoB, but are still permitted to fight with inferior weapons and armor. Double bonus points if they're armed like Imperial Guard, as people could use them as female Imperial Guard.

So you can be put in to the Repentia for minor transgressions. But if you flat out fail to make the cut, martial or spiritual, you get to sully the field where true Martyrs shed their blood? No thanks.

Considering that every Imperial Guardsman takes the field with a fraction of the faith of even a failed Sister, yes. After all, the Emperor will let anyone die for Him, even abhumans!

Do they let any of them wear the regalia of a Sororitas? But of a difference between a guardsmen, ratling or ogryn and a Sororitas. I think the Sisters line would be better served by a unit that isn't just a girlie version of a different imperium unit. Its not like everyone is fielding Rievers, why would putting a S3 T3 1W sister with even two bolt pistols in power armor be a good thing? Novices like you guys want serve no purpose you cant get somewhere else with soup.

If we are going to get a different troop type, at least give them a new purpose. Repentia could be used for chaff. Frateris Militia could be used for chaff. Doing so doesn't break the fluff, and doesn't waste a possible new kit on a why bother unit. Besides BSS might just be cheap enough (if the SM point reductions are true) that we might not need that many cheap bodies.

Give me an interesting new unit, that has a chance to change the way I have been playing Sisters for over two decades. Not seraphim without jump packs in a troop slot. They took those from the Canoness, see how that went over?

HoundsofDemos wrote:
If sisters are going to get a vehicle kit ( which I actually thing is likely) it will be something new. GW's last few releases have made clear that it is generally not interested in redoing older kits but instead releasing something new since they think that will sell better.

And it shall be named the Depressor, for it will be nothing that players want, at a cost that makes it useless, but it will carry 17 Sisters with bolters, each special weapon taking up 2 spaces and each heavy weapon taking up 4.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
It's frustrating how Devastators only come with 2 Lascannons when the squad can take 4, and how IG boxes don't come with meltaguns or plasmaguns.

But then how would they charge you $15 for 2 models with one each of those weapons (when you only want one of them likely anyway)? Yeah that's why.

Either way, personally I'm looking forward to what they do with the Sisters line, the small previews we've seen so far look pretty decent. And I fully expect a new unit or two, or weapon option - just to get those long time sisters players with an army already to buy more stuff.

 dracpanzer wrote:

Do they let any of them wear the regalia of a Sororitas?

If by 'regalia' you mean power armor and bolter, no. Give them a laspistol and chainsword and you've got cheap melee chaff.

 dracpanzer wrote:

 John Prins wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:

 John Prins wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:
Please squash forever the lazy idea of porting scouts to Sisters and calling them novitiates. 12 year old school girl nuns-to-be makes as much sense as Inquisitorial stormtroopers wearing shorts and ball caps looking for merit badges while they get murdered by everything.

Think of it more as 18-21 year old women that didn't quite make the devotional cut to become full SoB, but are still permitted to fight with inferior weapons and armor. Double bonus points if they're armed like Imperial Guard, as people could use them as female Imperial Guard.

So you can be put in to the Repentia for minor transgressions. But if you flat out fail to make the cut, martial or spiritual, you get to sully the field where true Martyrs shed their blood? No thanks.

Considering that every Imperial Guardsman takes the field with a fraction of the faith of even a failed Sister, yes. After all, the Emperor will let anyone die for Him, even abhumans!

Do they let any of them wear the regalia of a Sororitas? But of a difference between a guardsmen, ratling or ogryn and a Sororitas. I think the Sisters line would be better served by a unit that isn't just a girlie version of a different imperium unit. Its not like everyone is fielding Rievers, why would putting a S3 T3 1W sister with even two bolt pistols in power armor be a good thing? Novices like you guys want serve no purpose you cant get somewhere else with soup.

If we are going to get a different troop type, at least give them a new purpose. Repentia could be used for chaff. Frateris Militia could be used for chaff. Doing so doesn't break the fluff, and doesn't waste a possible new kit on a why bother unit. Besides BSS might just be cheap enough (if the SM point reductions are true) that we might not need that many cheap bodies.

Give me an interesting new unit, that has a chance to change the way I have been playing Sisters for over two decades. Not seraphim without jump packs in a troop slot. They took those from the Canoness, see how that went over?

I like the idea of Novices in the same way as i actually like the idea of Chapter Thralls as a unit. They were also in Shadowar so they are obviously thinking about them a bit.

New units
Bike unit with power spear/flamer combo (Guardian spear esque) would be cool I think.
Large Superheavy Shrine is kinda a must
Sniper would be nice (Not the flamer one ) - maybe a character

Love for them to explore the Tech aspect - who looks after and maintains their high tech stuff.

Here are some pie-in-the-sky ideas that I would love to see, but am fully aware will probably not happen:

Merge celestians and dominions - the former is a buffed battle sister that's buffed in the wrong areas, the latter is a sisters sternguard with a scout move. Give a unit that belongs in the elite slot the name it deserves.

Imperial vehicle variants - a land speeder storm would be incredibly useful for said dominions, the repressor makes more sense as a Chimera variant, lore-wise, bikes, fighters, land raiders, upgrade sprues everywhere!

Valid uses for Repentia as an affordable close-in combat unit in contrast to the wider army with its close-in but keep out of combat ethos.

Centurion suits for repressors. Take a second crack at the design keep the parts that work (the legs) rework the parts that don't.

 John Prins wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:

Do they let any of them wear the regalia of a Sororitas?

If by 'regalia' you mean power armor and bolter, no. Give them a laspistol and chainsword and you've got cheap melee chaff.

Cheaper Repentia I could agree too, I'd skip the pistol and give them a chainsword. Frateris Malitia are exactly the unit you are talking about. I'd be fine with that (guys, gals otherwise) but I'd think they'd be better off in a Ministorum slot with the priests.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

I like the idea of Novices in the same way as i actually like the idea of Chapter Thralls as a unit. They were also in Shadowar so they are obviously thinking about them a bit.

Though they had them as individuals within a squad of Sisters. I'm fine with that, would be great for Kill Team. No reason for them to be fielded as entire units though. Marine Scouts have a reason why they are fielded that way that doesn't apply to Sisters.

 Captain Joystick wrote:


Merge celestians and dominions - the former is a buffed battle sister that's buffed in the wrong areas, the latter is a sisters sternguard with a scout move. Give a unit that belongs in the elite slot the name it deserves.

I don't think Celestians need to get deleted, but their roles should get changed. They have never been good as a 'slightly better BSS'.
Take away their shooting role, give them shields and a power maul with ornate artificer armor, add Faith based squad enhancements, and there you go. Have their Faith abilities work turn by turn in close combat with similar mechanics to deathwatch ammo options. Facing hordes, have their hits multiply. Facing a monster, add strength. Facing elites, better AP, or a parry option to last longer in combat. Make Celestians awesome for a change.

 dracpanzer wrote:
Cheaper Repentia I ould agree too, I'd skip the pistol and give them a chainsword. Frateris Malitia are exactly the unit you are talking about. I'd be fine with that (guys, gals otherwise) but I'd think they'd be better off in a Ministorum slot with the priests.

The 3e zealots were written in that style, a horde of cheap melee chaff screening a handful of eviscerator wielders.
Though the current repentia eviscerator doesn't have the punch in small numbers to make that work.

A.T. wrote:

Though the current repentia eviscerator doesn't have the punch in small numbers to make that work.

I would handle that by givung the option ofr a suqd of Repentia to have access to an updated version of Repentia with more attacks call it the martyr. Fluff wise she would represent what happens when a repentia survives a long time like Celestine did before she turned into a Saint or what happens when a veteran Sister choses to become one.

Overall, Sister could use more close combat units like close combat Celestian, Jousting bikes, Valkyrie Seraphims, etc. (and a better weapon skill overall) since they fit well in the theme and esthetic of the army even if at the moment, close combat isn' exactly competitive.

I expect a few new (in plastic) kits and not much more.

I certainly do t expect radical shifts in roles, or a new horde style unit that will quickly become a mainstay of 'In-name-only Sisters' armies because they're a better points per model bargain.

A lynch mob and angry, riled-up fanatics would be an entertaining unit.

That said, I don't think it'll happen, and I don't see extensive value in adding such a unit to the game. It'll either be strictly worse than guardsmen, if they're equal in cost, or it'll be 3ppm and introduce a situation like Conscripts at the edition drop.

A.T. wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:
Cheaper Repentia I ould agree too, I'd skip the pistol and give them a chainsword. Frateris Malitia are exactly the unit you are talking about. I'd be fine with that (guys, gals otherwise) but I'd think they'd be better off in a Ministorum slot with the priests.

The 3e zealots were written in that style, a horde of cheap melee chaff screening a handful of eviscerator wielders.
Though the current repentia eviscerator doesn't have the punch in small numbers to make that work.

I would prefer they were just cheaper, if losing the Eviscerator is required to make them cheap and they limit them in numbers to avoid spam shenannigans, fine, we currently can't field enough of them to be useful in anything but the luckiest of circumstances (I play them all the time). They hit like a truck, but usually never last long enough to do so.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
A lynch mob and angry, riled-up fanatics would be an entertaining unit.

That said, I don't think it'll happen, and I don't see extensive value in adding such a unit to the game. It'll either be strictly worse than guardsmen, if they're equal in cost, or it'll be 3ppm and introduce a situation like Conscripts at the edition drop.

Agreed. It would be terrible to waste a brand new kit on such a unit. Will never get my vote.

 dracpanzer wrote:
Though they had them as individuals in a squad of Sisters. I'm fine with that, would be great fir Kill Team. No reason for them to be fielded as entire units though. Marine Scouts have a reason why they are fielded that way that doesn't apply to Sisters.

Somewhere between Crusader squads and the old Commissar Training Squads.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
A lynch mob and angry, riled-up fanatics would be an entertaining unit.

That said, I don't think it'll happen, and I don't see extensive value in adding such a unit to the game. It'll either be strictly worse than guardsmen, if they're equal in cost, or it'll be 3ppm and introduce a situation like Conscripts at the edition drop.

I think it would add something to the game. Mob mentality rules, must move toward and charge closest enemy unit. Double morale losses. Dirt cheap, very easy to kill but can overwhelm things if they aren't dealt with. No ObSec. Also make sure the minimum squad size costs more than minimum sized BSS so people don't just take 90 points of mobs to fill out battalions, or just make them not count as a unit selection.

I'm not saying it would be my first choice of new units, but I think it would be useful. If given the option I'd prefer more Sisters kits, but an angry mob would add some flavor.

While I won't turn down new units, I don't have a place in my army, and I wager most of us don't, for a melee chaff unit that's slower than the majority of the units that it's protecting.

And since I will definitely not make room for a melee chaff unit at the same cost of a ranged chaff unit, they'd have to be cheaper than Guardsmen... and as we saw from Conscripts, 3 points for a wound is just kind of broken, in a serious way.


And, as before mentioned, because the units that said angry mob would be screening cross the no-man's land on the first turn, and are going towards the enemy, they won't be able to screen their charges effectively. We don't have a use for a big chaff unit that's slower than the units they're guarding, so they would exclusively be an alternate choice for Guardsmen in Imperial lists, and, of course, if they're more than 40points per squad, they're worse than Guardsmen because they're melee and they don't farm CP's as cheaply, and therefore largely worthless to both us and the meta at large.

It would be "fluffy", though, but I'd rather new units be useful in Sisters armies.
Sisters cannot form a viable gunline in like any circumstance. Our effective threat range is equal to that of a cqc-focused army.

 Creeping Dementia wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:


Merge celestians and dominions - the former is a buffed battle sister that's buffed in the wrong areas, the latter is a sisters sternguard with a scout move. Give a unit that belongs in the elite slot the name it deserves.

I don't think Celestians need to get deleted, but their roles should get changed. They have never been good as a 'slightly better BSS'.
Take away their shooting role, give them shields and a power maul with ornate artificer armor, add Faith based squad enhancements, and there you go.

I'd love to see this, and/or power halberds to make Swiss-Guard Sisters. Call them Shrine Guardians and you're GTG.

 John Prins wrote:

 Creeping Dementia wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:


Merge celestians and dominions - the former is a buffed battle sister that's buffed in the wrong areas, the latter is a sisters sternguard with a scout move. Give a unit that belongs in the elite slot the name it deserves.

I don't think Celestians need to get deleted, but their roles should get changed. They have never been good as a 'slightly better BSS'.
Take away their shooting role, give them shields and a power maul with ornate artificer armor, add Faith based squad enhancements, and there you go.

I'd love to see this, and/or power halberds to make Swiss-Guard Sisters. Call them Shrine Guardians and you're GTG.

well in fairness the swiss guard equivilant in 40k is proably more the custodes.

If the Elite section gets expanded with more units, would it make sense for Repentia to become Troops and re-costed/re-balanced accordingly?

Also, if we get new vehicles, could we also get an Enginseer/Techmarine equivalent to fix them up? At the very least as a unique unit choice for one of the Orders, fluffed as the influence of people who though that the Moirae forgeworld folks had a good point about the Ministorum/Mechanicus union.

 John Prins wrote:

 Creeping Dementia wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:


Merge celestians and dominions - the former is a buffed battle sister that's buffed in the wrong areas, the latter is a sisters sternguard with a scout move. Give a unit that belongs in the elite slot the name it deserves.

I don't think Celestians need to get deleted, but their roles should get changed. They have never been good as a 'slightly better BSS'.
Take away their shooting role, give them shields and a power maul with ornate artificer armor, add Faith based squad enhancements, and there you go.

I'd love to see this, and/or power halberds to make Swiss-Guard Sisters. Call them Shrine Guardians and you're GTG.

Sounds very cool

Oh man, I just had a totally pie-in-the-sky, wishlisting idea for a Penitent Engine revamp.

Build a kit with three gun arms (two that are double autocannons, and a rocket pod), three melee arms (two claws and a chainfist) and a choice of three shoulder guns (flamer, melta, heavy bolter) and use it for three different entries/slots.

If it has two melee arms (+shoulder gun) it becomes Fast Attack and gets to re-roll charges (or add/drop a die, depending on army bonuses). Or maybe deployment options?

If it has two gun arms (+shoulder gun) it becomes Heavy Support and gets +1 to hit if it didn't move (or +1 on it's armor save, depending on army bonuses)

If it has one of each arm (+shoulder gun) it counts as an Elite choice and gets to re-roll one die per turn.

That way one (bigish) kit can be a lot of different things thematically, and fill a bunch of different detachment slots. They would be visually distinctive to their role/bonus, and if they put in some extra heads and make the hips and shoulders poseable you could have a dozen on the table and they would all look great! And who doesn't want a table full of Penitent Engines?

Then it would just be a twin auto-cannon dreadnought.

It's already basically a fragile and crappy dreadnought, but as a melee-focused suicide-walker it at least fits with it's theme.


Additional ranged support is obviously a good thing, but I'd rather it not have autocannons, and not be a penitent engine. Standing back and raining fire down fire from afar isn't conducive to redemption through self-sacrifice. Also, I don't like autocannons, and have generally been entirely unsatsified with autocannon-armed units [excepting the Predator and Armiger Helverin, which have special super-autocannons].

Obviously, lascannons aren't our thing, and the exorcist is somewhat unique in its loadout. I think that, as far as ranged support goes, we kind of need something that's S9 or higher and can stick unpleasantness onto Knights.


Also, the Exorcist should be D6 damage, like other missile launchers. There's a balance that a vehicle needs to achieve, and while I generally prefer cheap to being souped up, in the case of the Exorcist and Vindicator I'd rather pay more points for a better gun, because they're too non-threatening for their cost. While they're probably appropriately costed, resilience isn't worth it if you're not threatening enough to be shot at.

Alot depends on if this is a Adeptus Ministorium Codex or a Adepta Sororitas Codex.

They did split them in the Index.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Alot depends on if this is a Adeptus Ministorium Codex or a Adepta Sororitas Codex.

They did split them in the Index.

I personnaly hope for an Adeptus Sororitas Codex. While I'm not uninterested in a bunch of rabbit flagellants, priests, witch hunters and penitent engins, I am much more interested in the paladin-like Sisters. I would like GW to focus most of its efforts on them and keep the Ministorum units for a potential release alongside Inquisitors of the four main Ordos. I don't especially mix the two, I think the Ministorum units make a better mix with guardsmen.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
Here are some pie-in-the-sky ideas that I would love to see, but am fully aware will probably not happen:

Merge celestians and dominions - the former is a buffed battle sister that's buffed in the wrong areas, the latter is a sisters sternguard with a scout move. Give a unit that belongs in the elite slot the name it deserves.

With the Ro3 already kicking us in the teeth I don't want to see anything merged in to anything. Dominions should stay in the Fast Attack slot like they have always been. Vanguard is powerful, especially with the Repressor, and makes me hope they don't get crushed with the new dex.

Celestians have always been a stinker unit for Sisters. I think they would be a great unit at the same price with 1 less attack, condemnor boltguns as their standard weapon with Angelic Visage and the unit counts as a character for Martyrdom purposes. Somehow making them capable of generating an AoF even if just for themselves or penalties for nearby psykers every turn would be icing on the cake.

I would of course be happy if they just gave them the ability to buy wargear like the 7ed IA book Canoness Command Squad. Perfect tool box unit that fits the fluff and would allow them to be built to suit whatever you like.

Imperial vehicle variants - a land speeder storm would be incredibly useful for said dominions, the repressor makes more sense as a Chimera variant, lore-wise, bikes, fighters, land raiders, upgrade sprues everywhere!

Flying or hovering pulpit could be very cool. Dunno about giving it to Dominions, but a Canoness, Imagifer and some Retributors able to keep up with Seraphim would be nice. Servo skulls hanging around like Tau shield drones....

Valid uses for Repentia as an affordable close-in combat unit in contrast to the wider army with its close-in but keep out of combat ethos.

They're just too expensive now. Even if you want them to retain the baby eviscerator they aren't worth the cost of a standard BSS. I usually put a squad of 3 in a Repressor with a melta BSS squad, repeat till you have three. Running with a Canoness, Imagifer and Mistress in the open slots, you can get a decent kick in turn two. They just eat up too many points. If they could accompany a squad without blowing up the original squads special rules (like vanguard) they might see some field time.

Centurion suits for repressors. Take a second crack at the design keep the parts that work (the legs) rework the parts that don't.

I think it might work better within the Sisters aesthetic and fluff to take a bit different track than Centurions. Split the hoped for plastic PenEngine between its classic mode we all know and love and a dual version where a Sororitas in good standing is in the same walker like a churchy sentinal with a weapon loadout something like a heavy bolter up top with a heavy flamer or meltagun. The girl just isn't strapped to the front of it.

and some actual news:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/11/02/2nd-nov-the-blood-glory-studio-preview-roundup-extravaganzagw-homepage-post-1/

As if that wasn’t enough, Chapter Approved 2018 will also feature a beta codex for the Adepta Sororitas! This is quite possibly Warhammer 40,000’s most anticipated codex ever, and we want to make sure we absolutely nail it, so, alongside our usual rigorous professional playtesting, we’re asking you to help us out and provide your thoughts.

Make no mistake – while this is a beta codex, it’s a fully fledged one that offers the Adepta Sororitas more options and more cool stuff than ever before, allowing you (for the first time EVER) to represent the unique tactics of various orders with unique Orders Militant Convictions. The Order of the Bloody Rose, for instance, are zealous close combat specialists:

Vid has a Penitent Engine so looks like they are in the Codex so not just Sisters........

Strength and attacks make a big difference for eviscerator wielders - especially if the canoness gets a jump-pack back.

Stratagem is a questionable use of a command point IMO.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Vid has a Penitent Engine so looks like they are in the Codex so not just Sisters........

Blackstone fortress preview had what looked like a confessor and... some kind of halo wearing chainsaw flamer loon.

A.T. wrote:
Strength and attacks make a big difference for eviscerator wielders - especially if the canoness gets a jump-pack back.

Stratagem is a questionable use of a command point IMO.

I disagree, the start allows you to deep strike in and immediatly open fire, hitting at a range of 12 with flamers, that's not too bad, it's situational but I suspect clever commanders will get good use of it. obviously the points cost of seraphems is gonna be the deciding factor.

A.T. wrote:
Strength and attacks make a big difference for eviscerator wielders - especially if the canoness gets a jump-pack back.

Stratagem is a questionable use of a command point IMO.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Vid has a Penitent Engine so looks like they are in the Codex so not just Sisters........

Blackstone fortress preview had what looked like a confessor and... some kind of halo wearing chainsaw flamer loon.

Loyalist or not? She looks great - could be new Repentia?

 Mr Morden wrote:
Loyalist or not? She looks great - could be new Repentia?

She is a dead ringer style-wise for the old repentia from Citadel Journal 49, back when they were lone models that were joined to squads rather than squads in their own right.

 Mr Morden wrote:

A.T. wrote:
Strength and attacks make a big difference for eviscerator wielders - especially if the canoness gets a jump-pack back.

Stratagem is a questionable use of a command point IMO.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Vid has a Penitent Engine so looks like they are in the Codex so not just Sisters........

Blackstone fortress preview had what looked like a confessor and... some kind of halo wearing chainsaw flamer loon.

Loyalist or not? She looks great - could be new Repentia?

They both look badass

 Mr Morden wrote:
Blackstone fortress preview had what looked like a confessor and... some kind of halo wearing chainsaw flamer loon.

Whoever she is, I want her desperately. I love that model. GW may have convinced me to make a Sisters army with a single image...

BrianDavion wrote:
I disagree, the start allows you to deep strike in and immediatly open fire, hitting at a range of 12 with flamers, that's not too bad

It gives you a deepstrike attack of ~21 S4 hits and ~8 S3 hits.

My local opponents field a fair amount of deathguard, knights, mech DE, etc - I guess i'm not sure what i'd aim it, or whether it's worth losing the inferno pistols for.

A.T. wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I disagree, the start allows you to deep strike in and immediatly open fire, hitting at a range of 12 with flamers, that's not too bad

It gives you a deepstrike attack of ~21 S4 hits and ~8 S3 hits.

My local opponents field a fair amount of deathguard, knights, mech DE, etc - I guess i'm not sure what i'd aim it, or whether it's worth losing the inferno pistols for.

Maybe but that's just your local meta. I can see how this would be VERY useful in a meta where you wanted a fast strike chaff clearer

BrianDavion wrote:

A.T. wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I disagree, the start allows you to deep strike in and immediatly open fire, hitting at a range of 12 with flamers, that's not too bad

It gives you a deepstrike attack of ~21 S4 hits and ~8 S3 hits.

My local opponents field a fair amount of deathguard, knights, mech DE, etc - I guess i'm not sure what i'd aim it, or whether it's worth losing the inferno pistols for.

Maybe but that's just your local meta. I can see how this would be VERY useful in a meta where you wanted a fast strike chaff clearer

Do keep in mind when discussing this strategem that these are HAND flamers not flamers, which means S3 D3 NOT S4 D6. All told a fully maxed out unit of seraphim will kill maybe 4-5 marines total between the two shooting attacks. Anything S5 or higher will be basically immune. Also, you can't really do it more than 2 times per game. Once on T2 once on T3 with a different unit.

It's good, but don't start buying up ebay lots yet.

BrianDavion wrote:
Maybe but that's just your local meta. I can see how this would be VERY useful in a meta where you wanted a fast strike chaff clearer

Roughly 9 cultists in cover I think.

Those hand flamers wont be in range for your shooting phase though, so you get one tap with 4 S3 D3 flamers. Hard to clear much chaff with that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:

A.T. wrote:
Strength and attacks make a big difference for eviscerator wielders - especially if the canoness gets a jump-pack back.

Maybe Celestians as well if they give them wargear options..

Loyalist or not? She looks great - could be new Repentia?

Is that an Eye of Horus on her shoulder?

Yeah, I think that Strategem is going to go over about as well as passing gas in an elevator. Just not useful with how bad hand flamers are right now. If it was Inferno pistols as well, then you might be talking.
The Bloody Rose trait ... Will really depend on if there are any units that will actually want to use it. As is, BSS, Dom's, Rets, (which is most of the units that are ever taken in the index incarnation) won't need it. Seraphim, maybe. Repentia, sure, if they are affordable and can get into combat. Probably not the Order best suited to my style of play, but it could have potential depending on what the rest of the codex looks like.

ERJAK wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

A.T. wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I disagree, the start allows you to deep strike in and immediatly open fire, hitting at a range of 12 with flamers, that's not too bad

It gives you a deepstrike attack of ~21 S4 hits and ~8 S3 hits.

My local opponents field a fair amount of deathguard, knights, mech DE, etc - I guess i'm not sure what i'd aim it, or whether it's worth losing the inferno pistols for.

Maybe but that's just your local meta. I can see how this would be VERY useful in a meta where you wanted a fast strike chaff clearer

Do keep in mind when discussing this strategem that these are HAND flamers not flamers, which means S3 D3 NOT S4 D6. All told a fully maxed out unit of seraphim will kill maybe 4-5 marines total between the two shooting attacks. Anything S5 or higher will be basically immune. Also, you can't really do it more than 2 times per game. Once on T2 once on T3 with a different unit.

It's good, but don't start buying up ebay lots yet.

ohh I agree, I'm not saying it's gonna be one of those broken strats that get spammed at a tourny level, or one you build an army around but it'll definatly have a valid use in the right situations, which TBH is what a start SHOULD be

 Creeping Dementia wrote:
Yeah, I think that Strategem is going to go over about as well as passing gas in an elevator. Just not useful with how bad hand flamers are right now. If it was Inferno pistols as well, then you might be talking.
The Bloody Rose trait ... Will really depend on if there are any units that will actually want to use it. As is, BSS, Dom's, Rets, (which is most of the units that are ever taken in the index incarnation) won't need it. Seraphim, maybe. Repentia, sure, if they are affordable and can get into combat. Probably not the Order best suited to my style of play, but it could have potential depending on what the rest of the codex looks like.

Its handy for when you are charged as well as charging as its +1 strength and +1 Attacks, plus the Relic or Eviscerator Sword Cannoness.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Creeping Dementia wrote:
Yeah, I think that Strategem is going to go over about as well as passing gas in an elevator. Just not useful with how bad hand flamers are right now. If it was Inferno pistols as well, then you might be talking.
The Bloody Rose trait ... Will really depend on if there are any units that will actually want to use it. As is, BSS, Dom's, Rets, (which is most of the units that are ever taken in the index incarnation) won't need it. Seraphim, maybe. Repentia, sure, if they are affordable and can get into combat. Probably not the Order best suited to my style of play, but it could have potential depending on what the rest of the codex looks like.

Its handy for when you are charged as well as charging as its +1 strength and +1 Attacks, plus the Relic or Eviscerator Sword Cannoness.

That's what's good about this CT, it actually functional. Most codexes have either useless or extremely underwhelming CTs alongside clearly superior ones. This CT is actually incredibly powerful, but Sisters have to jump through a lot of hoops to get usage out of it. It rewards building your list with deliberate intent to take advantage of it, rather than just making your best stuff insane, ala alaitoc.

Alternatively, it rewards you for painting your Repentia a different color than the rest of your army, but the intention of the rule is good.

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Alternatively, it rewards you for painting your Repentia a different color than the rest of your army, but the intention of the rule is good.

The Valorous Heart Penitent rule will be interesting to see. It would be nuts if Bloody Rose Repentia come out better than Valorous Heart Repentia.

 dracpanzer wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Alternatively, it rewards you for painting your Repentia a different color than the rest of your army, but the intention of the rule is good.

The Valorous Heart Penitent rule will be interesting to see. It would be nuts if Bloody Rose Repentia come out better than Valorous Heart Repentia.

I'd probably expect a fnp like rule for OotVH...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or some kind of movement bonus... (If Argent Shroud get the fnp...

Lammia wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:

 Arachnofiend wrote:
Alternatively, it rewards you for painting your Repentia a different color than the rest of your army, but the intention of the rule is good.

The Valorous Heart Penitent rule will be interesting to see. It would be nuts if Bloody Rose Repentia come out better than Valorous Heart Repentia.

I'd probably expect a fnp like rule for OotVH...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or some kind of movement bonus... (If Argent Shroud get the fnp...

I kind of hope Repentia in general get a movement bonus, assault after advancing or some such. If that Blackstone Fortress model with the evisci-flamer is any indication of where they are going with new models (don't dare to hope) Repentia could be getting a wall of death upgrade when the Codex drops.

Hopefully all the Convents get decent traits. It's unfortunate in the other codexes when one group gets a great trait and the others are kind of Meh. Like DE Coven, Harlequins, etc.

Hopefully they do more to improve little used options than random Strategems. Flamers have had issues mainly due to 8th edition rules, I'd really like to see Sisters get something that makes them a reasonable choice again.

Very exciting to start seeing some rules, hopefully we start seeing more models soon.

Any guesses on how long the actual Beta period will last? Most seem to think the actual Codex and models will be released next fall. If the codex has to be to the printers 3-4 months before release, then I guess we'll be playing with the Beta for roughly 6 months before changes are 'finalized' for the printer?

Am I the only one who's starting to get a little nervous about what GW is about to publish? Sisters didn't have new lore since, well almost 15 years, with the publication of the Witch Hunter Codex (the sixth eddition virtual only codex didn't bring any new information about the faction), Sisters are rarely used in fiction and its most often as sandbags to show off the villain threat level. With a new codex of a volme comparable to that other factions, we will inevitably get new lore for both the Sisterhood and the Ecclesiarchy itself too. With a new line of models comming too, they have a golden opportunity to throw the faction in different direction or turn any single of their defining characteristics up to 11 (it's 40K afterall) sometime at the detriment of others. We might get something substancially different then what we used to have.

I'm not worried about radially different Sisters Lore. The Sisters and the Ecclesiarchy are used extensively in lore, even when not the center stage. They can't be changed radically without messing with everyone else's stories.

Really liking our first look at Convictions and stratagems. Just the ability to utilize the Hand Flamers when deep striking is nice (wish it extended to the Inferno Pistols also), making using that ability no longer a total detriment to the unit.

Imagine the fun to be had pairing a Ministorum Priest with your Bloodly Rose Sisters? Reroll attacks with +1 Strength and +2 Attack? Actual close combat sisters!

I care not to conjecture until we see Chapter Approved 2018 to see what direction GW is taking the Sisters of Battle. The expectation is that whatever is in CA:2018 will be very, very close to whats in the actual SoB codex.

What do I want to see? The prayer system back in place. A more self reliant army list that doesn't force me to take non-Sisters of Battle models. The Ministratum Priest comes to mind, and that one special character priest that was like an auto include. Soup is here to stay. I just don't want to see soup in a base Sisters of Battle codex, and then add even more soup later. I do not want to see a S3 T3 6+ model with an Eviserator that costs more than a Space Marine. I'd also like to see an actual battle tank for them that does not fire d6 krak missiles as the only source outside of squad multi-melta's for anti-tank. What would be really awesome is if they get the Deathwatch Infernous Pattern Heavy Bolter/Flamer. That would bring a smile to my face for sure.

As for the models? OK, here I am conjecturing. GW makes some of the best wargaming models. I have no concerns about what the models will look like because they will look great. This is the one thing GW does very, very well.

Acts of Faith are just about perfect. I'd like to see a better way to get more than just (terrible) imagifiers but other than that the system is excellent. It's what Ynnari SHOULD have been.

I want Celestine to stay mostly how she is except able to get AT LEAST Our Martyred Lady convictions(I'd prefer just straight up <Order> but choosing beggars and all that) and a warlord trait. The game has power creeped enough that she's not really OP anymore ESPECIALLY in ITC.

Fix the Exorcist(3 damage with roll two take the highest if they don't move would be fantastic), make repentia and penitent engines useful(The conviction is EXCELLENT for this, but, they need to be significantly cheaper; They only work when En mass), jumppack Canonesses, make melta guns cheaper, make flamers WAY cheaper, and for GOD'S SAKE figure out SOMETHING for the freakin celestians to do. If you want them melee make them good at melee.

I don't think the Seraphim strategem is any good.

It's basically 14 bolt pistol shots and not being an available target on turn 1 in exchange for not getting 4 inferno pistol shots and a charge.


Order of the Bloody Rose's trait on the other hand isn't terrible. Dominions and AoF Seraphim will generally be in charge range on Turn 1, and if they group up and pile in together, they'll be able to gank small units and rip up chaff units. And we have a lot of units that, despite their poor melee still, will be in close combat, so buffing that isn't really objectionable. It's not awesome, though.

epronovost wrote:
Am I the only one who's starting to get a little nervous about what GW is about to publish? Sisters didn't have new lore since, well almost 15 years, with the publication of the Witch Hunter Codex (the sixth eddition virtual only codex didn't bring any new information about the faction), Sisters are rarely used in fiction and its most often as sandbags to show off the villain threat level. With a new codex of a volme comparable to that other factions, we will inevitably get new lore for both the Sisterhood and the Ecclesiarchy itself too. With a new line of models comming too, they have a golden opportunity to throw the faction in different direction or turn any single of their defining characteristics up to 11 (it's 40K afterall) sometime at the detriment of others. We might get something substancially different then what we used to have.

Not really that concerned. The only advancement in lore we have had in the last decade has been from other factions point of view, which means they have been expendible sacrifices, massacre footnotes. Celestine being the exception. Will be nice to have the Sisters front and center and portrayed as the bada$$es they are.

epronovost wrote:
Am I the only one who's starting to get a little nervous about what GW is about to publish? Sisters didn't have new lore since, well almost 15 years, with the publication of the Witch Hunter Codex (the sixth eddition virtual only codex didn't bring any new information about the faction), Sisters are rarely used in fiction and its most often as sandbags to show off the villain threat level. With a new codex of a volme comparable to that other factions, we will inevitably get new lore for both the Sisterhood and the Ecclesiarchy itself too. With a new line of models comming too, they have a golden opportunity to throw the faction in different direction or turn any single of their defining characteristics up to 11 (it's 40K afterall) sometime at the detriment of others. We might get something substancially different then what we used to have.

Actually considering their treatment by the rules team they are surprisingly common in the fiction and background - eg one of the ten novellas that is coming out is a Sisters book, Shield of Baal had a vast amount of wonderful info and images and even characters as well as hints of things like Drop Catherdals - they kicked serious ass in that camapign and didn't die. Same in Gathering Storm etc.

 dracpanzer wrote:


Is that an Eye of Horus on her shoulder?

Looks like half an Aquilla to me

I bet the sisters are the ones saving Vigilus. Would fit perfectly with the timing.

I would like to see a complete 'plastification' of their line with the addition of several new units. I really like the aesthetic they have, so I hope there aren't any significant changes there. I know I might be hoping for a bit too much, and I totally understand if GW splits the release over 2019. I just think it would be a shame if they didn't seize the chance to retire the old resin models.

 Hollow wrote:
I would like to see a complete 'plastification' of their line with the addition of several new units. I really like the aesthetic they have, so I hope there aren't any significant changes there. I know I might be hoping for a bit too much, and I totally understand if GW splits the release over 2019. I just think it would be a shame if they didn't seize the chance to retire the old resin models.

Sisters don't have any resin models. They're all metal. The line is so old it predates GW's resin cast.

Fun fact, a release equivalent to what deathguard got (one centerpiece, 6 characters, 4 infantry kits and 3 vehicle kits) would be enough to redo everything and then add enough new units with dual kits to double the size of the army .

ERJAK wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
I would like to see a complete 'plastification' of their line with the addition of several new units. I really like the aesthetic they have, so I hope there aren't any significant changes there. I know I might be hoping for a bit too much, and I totally understand if GW splits the release over 2019. I just think it would be a shame if they didn't seize the chance to retire the old resin models.

Sisters don't have any resin models. They're all metal. The line is so old it predates GW's resin cast.

Fun fact, a release equivalent to what deathguard got (one centerpiece, 6 characters, 4 infantry kits and 3 vehicle kits) would be enough to redo everything and then add enough new units with dual kits to double the size of the army .

Veridyan is resin, isn't she? Though I doubt she'll get redone, given her sculpt is the translation of cover art from the original SoB 'dex.

She was made more as a novelty item rather than an actual addition to the range. She was designed before GW got the results of that survey where everyone pleaded for plastic sisters.

Be great to get a character for each major Order

and there is plenty of nice art that they have produced over the last few years. I assumed that they chose the Bloodied Rose becuase of the new book?

spoiler for size - nice pic

ERJAK wrote:
make repentia and penitent engines useful

Mobility is one of their current problems. The penitent engine is slower than even the stubby-legged marine dreadnoughts while the repentia outpace their support characters if they use faith (and consequently lose half of their attack power).

The latter is a general flaw in the current faith system and quite possibly why celestine has her +1 faith bonus to keep up with her bodyguard. IMO activating faith (if the system remains as is) should extend from a squad to any nearby characters, with the usual 1/phase limit.

Curious to see what happens with Celestine.
If she doesnt get an order keyword, thats going to kill the Convictions. If she gets OoOML keyword, shed only see use in OoOML detachments. Not everyone used that order and for some people would almost invalidate her because of that. I know this would definately be the case for myself.

Am really hoping that if not in CA, then in the full dex, we have an option for a generic living saint or other suitable option to let that model be useful/useable for the non martyred lady players.

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Curious to see what happens with Celestine.
If she doesnt get an order keyword, thats going to kill the Convictions. If she gets OoOML keyword, shed only see use in OoOML detachments. Not everyone used that order and for some people would almost invalidate her because of that. I know this would definately be the case for myself.

Am really hoping that if not in CA, then in the full dex, we have an option for a generic living saint or other suitable option to let that model be useful/useable for the non martyred lady players.

I think most of the named characters so far were locked to their subfaction when they got a dex? Might be wrong.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Curious to see what happens with Celestine.
If she doesnt get an order keyword, thats going to kill the Convictions. If she gets OoOML keyword, shed only see use in OoOML detachments. Not everyone used that order and for some people would almost invalidate her because of that. I know this would definately be the case for myself.

Am really hoping that if not in CA, then in the full dex, we have an option for a generic living saint or other suitable option to let that model be useful/useable for the non martyred lady players.

I think most of the named characters so far were locked to their subfaction when they got a dex? Might be wrong.

Most characters aren't as old as Celestine... and most armies have more than one named character...
I could see her get a 'Living Saint' special rule that works similar to the... Flash Gitz(?) Ability to not break Kulturs...

Lammia wrote:

Most characters aren't as old as Celestine... and most armies have more than one named character...
I could see her get a 'Living Saint' special rule that works similar to the... Flash Gitz(?) Ability to not break Kulturs...

This would be my thought, Celestine certainly transcends the deployments of just the OoOML.

 Mr Morden wrote:
I think most of the named characters so far were locked to their subfaction when they got a dex? Might be wrong.

You are right, and it sucks. I really like more the old way of doing things with selecting traits to create your own chapter/regiment like they did in 3rd/4th ed (not sure?) than the “even more flanderization of the universe with only 6 subfaction for every faction, the same stupid characters always being present everywhere in the fluff and on the table”.

As long as her ability works on Adepta Sororitas units, even if she's Our Martyred Lady, I can find a detachment for her.

Well she is not a Repentia

ERJAK wrote:

 Hollow wrote:
I would like to see a complete 'plastification' of their line with the addition of several new units. I really like the aesthetic they have, so I hope there aren't any significant changes there. I know I might be hoping for a bit too much, and I totally understand if GW splits the release over 2019. I just think it would be a shame if they didn't seize the chance to retire the old resin models.

Sisters don't have any resin models. They're all metal. The line is so old it predates GW's resin cast. .

*Stares at own metal sister models. Oh yeah.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Well she is not a Repentia

Spoiler:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
I think most of the named characters so far were locked to their subfaction when they got a dex? Might be wrong.

You are right, and it sucks. I really like more the old way of doing things with selecting traits to create your own chapter/regiment like they did in 3rd/4th ed (not sure?) than the “even more flanderization of the universe with only 6 subfaction for every faction, the same stupid characters always being present everywhere in the fluff and on the table”.

Fabius Bile isn't locked to any CSM Legion and doesn't have the <LEGION> keyword, but he has an exception (like the non-regimental guard units, ork freebootas, etc) that makes it so he doesn't screw up your subfaction ability.
Celestine will likely be the same.

I suspect that like Guilliman buffs Marines, but buffs Ultramarines more; that Celestine will buff Sisters, but buff Order of Our Martyred Lady more.

So with the Blackstone Fortress reveal confirming that all the models have 40k data-slates. Any thoughts on how the missionary zealot and confessor priest guy might fall in to our laps?

 dracpanzer wrote:
So with the Blackstone Fortress reveal confirming that all the models have 40k data-slates. Any thoughts on how the missionary zealot and confessor priest guy might fall in to our laps?

Since we know she isn't exactly a Repentia now I expect her to be a specific, named character that isn't a generalized unit.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Well she is not a Repentia

Spoiler:

She is an angel from heaven <3 <3 <3.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:
So with the Blackstone Fortress reveal confirming that all the models have 40k data-slates. Any thoughts on how the missionary zealot and confessor priest guy might fall in to our laps?

Since we know she isn't exactly a Repentia now I expect her to be a specific, named character that isn't a generalized unit.

I could see her coming as a generic Elite character in the same style as the Imagifer, Hospitaller, Dialogus and their like. Depending on stats and cost, might make for a fun way to bring the Priest/Confessor type hopefully HQ guy, with some hopefully Elite Missionary Zealots and a couple of CA Beta Dex improved PenEngines.

A lot of hope there, so take with some holy salt, could be fun and interesting though.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

She is an angel from heaven <3 <3 <3.

I think it might actually be a dude...

and I hope he or she isn't a unique character a squad of elite flamers/chainsword sounds really cool.

epronovost wrote:
I think it might actually be a dude...

The 'Unique Actions' text uses the female pronoun.

epronovost wrote:
I think it might actually be a dude...

GW doing armored female model right .

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

epronovost wrote:
I think it might actually be a dude...

GW doing armored female model right .

It is actually a pretty feminine design, it's just the raised armor chest is designed in a more subtle, the-way-breasts-interact-with-clothing sort of way rather than the boob sockets we're used to.

Yes, it really reads as feminine in my opinion. From the very first time I saw the model, before noticing the pronouns, I recognized it as a female model. But it's done without making it a caricature either, and that's why I say it's armored female model done right!

Would love to see more saints, while celestine is definately enough there are other living and reincarnated saints out there.

more character choices

Celestians that are actually worth taking

More walkers beyond just penitent engines (iv got a sick high priest on a war pulpit), i mean who doesnt want a walking shrine

would love to see the return of a flyer since we lost Avenger strike fighter

would also love to see a melee or hybrid varient on Seraphim

Cannoness with jump pack

Some sort of Shrine or Tomb Fortification.

Faith system that actually scales by army size and isnt just inferior guard orders

at the very least i will take any option that lets us break away from the required 3 units of dominions with melta guns in repressors (honestly repressors need to lose the fire ports)

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Yes, it really reads as feminine in my opinion. From the very first time I saw the model, before noticing the pronouns, I recognized it as a female model. But it's done without making it a caricature either, and that's why I say it's armored female model done right!

Yea GW finally got the whole men and woman look fairly similar in combat gear besides the face and possibly size.

 warmaster21 wrote:
Would love to see more saints, while celestine is definately enough there are other living and reincarnated saints out there.

more character choices

Celestians that are actually worth taking

More walkers beyond just penitent engines (iv got a sick high priest on a war pulpit), i mean who doesnt want a walking shrine

would love to see the return of a flyer since we lost Avenger strike fighter

would also love to see a melee or hybrid varient on Seraphim

Cannoness with jump pack

Some sort of Shrine or Tomb Fortification.

Faith system that actually scales by army size and isnt just inferior guard orders

at the very least i will take any option that lets us break away from the required 3 units of dominions with melta guns in repressors (honestly repressors need to lose the fire ports)

The method to which you get additional acts of faith is inferior to guard orders. Acts of faith themselves are far, far better, especially considering our infantry are far better. Being able to act outside of a phase is obscenely powerful. All they need to do is figure out a way to add additional AoFs that isn't a terrible 40pt character.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

epronovost wrote:
I think it might actually be a dude...

GW doing armored female model right .

It is actually a pretty feminine design, it's just the raised armor chest is designed in a more subtle, the-way-breasts-interact-with-clothing sort of way rather than the boob sockets we're used to.

No boob plate? She will stand out in my SoB collection like a sore thumb. Missy, go to the artificer and demand a proper power armour fitting for a zealous woman.

I don't get it, she has a really cool armor, more armored than Cadian, and she gets a … 7+ save???!!!?? Worse than Orks with tshirts??!!?!,

That is very strange, I definitely thought she was wearing power armor. Should definitely be a 4+ at the very least.

depe ds what the armor she's wearing is made of, if it's say, leather then I could see something less, but agreed 7+ is too low.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I don't get it, she has a really cool armor, more armored than Cadian, and she gets a … 7+ save???!!!?? Worse than Orks with tshirts??!!?!,

It's true that she looked rather heavily armored. I would have said carapace armor or maybe even power armor, but it seems that her armor is actually made of leather and faith or somehting similarly bad. That's a weird choice.

We've unboxed Blackstone Fortress at my store and I've had a quick glance at some datasheets. Thaddeus is just a Munistorum Priest with a stubber and a Power Maul, costs 65-80 pts, I don't remember. Dorne has a Assault flamer S5 AP-1 and a CC weapon for which I forgot the profile, and costs something like 25-30 pts, Elite choice.

epronovost wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I don't get it, she has a really cool armor, more armored than Cadian, and she gets a … 7+ save???!!!?? Worse than Orks with tshirts??!!?!,

It's true that she looked rather heavily armored. I would have said carapace armor or maybe even power armor, but it seems that her armor is actually made of leather and faith or somehting similarly bad. That's a weird choice.

7+ is usually saved for models that are running around effectively naked. Poxwalkers are a 7+ save. Even if she's wearing leather armor (which is definitely not conveyed well with the model's design) it should be a 6+ at least.

 warmaster21 wrote:

Faith system that actually scales by army size and isnt just inferior guard orders

Acts of Faith are significantly better than Orders in every way (shoot again is better than FRFSRF and the reroll orders; fight again is better than Fix Bayonets because it occurs before the movement phase, allowing you to attack and still fall back; move again is better than Move Move Move because it doesn't prevent you from shooting, and doesn't impact your shooting phase), and having easier access to them than the Imagifier tax would make Sisters unbeatable.

If Imagifiers were an HQ choice, I would say that the AoF system is in a really good spot (it strongly encourages souping, but that's fine).

 warmaster21 wrote:

at the very least i will take any option that lets us break away from the required 3 units of dominions with melta guns in repressors (honestly repressors need to lose the fire ports)

First, you should already be off melta Doms in Repressors in ITC, because Repressors walk into anti-knight firepower, but don't have the knights' 3++ to soak it. Further, they're inefficient against Rotate+Ion Knights, with a four melta squad averaging about 2.5 damage in melta range, making them less efficient than their weight in storm bolters at the same range (which is super sad). So they really just feed BGH and MFD points.

Second, Repressors are only a thing because of the firing ports, without them, they'd be overcosted Rhinos and you would never take them, just as you never take Rhinos.

PuppetSoul wrote:
If Imagifiers were an HQ choice, I would say that the AoF system is in a really good spot (it strongly encourages souping, but that's fine).

I find their biggest problems are positioning and unreliability for the cost. Unable to advance with seraphim or dominions, unable to faith a disembarking unit like repentia or mech retributors, unable to double-hit with repentia until two full player turns after they charge.

They get largely pigeon-holed into a coin flip on the first turn to advance seraphim followed by retributor support - at which point they are effectively a 40 point upgrade to an 85 point unit that lets them shoot twice every other round(ish). Not terrible but once the retributors get shot up the short range of the imagifier takes them out of action too.

 warmaster21 wrote:
(honestly repressors need to lose the fire ports)

Sisters already have rhinos.
No-one uses them.

PuppetSoul wrote:

 warmaster21 wrote:

Faith system that actually scales by army size and isnt just inferior guard orders

Acts of Faith are significantly better than Orders in every way (shoot again is better than FRFSRF and the reroll orders; fight again is better than Fix Bayonets because it occurs before the movement phase, allowing you to attack and still fall back; move again is better than Move Move Move because it doesn't prevent you from shooting, and doesn't impact your shooting phase), and having easier access to them than the Imagifier tax would make Sisters unbeatable.

If Imagifiers were an HQ choice, I would say that the AoF system is in a really good spot (it strongly encourages souping, but that's fine).

 warmaster21 wrote:

at the very least i will take any option that lets us break away from the required 3 units of dominions with melta guns in repressors (honestly repressors need to lose the fire ports)

First, you should already be off melta Doms in Repressors in ITC, because Repressors walk into anti-knight firepower, but don't have the knights' 3++ to soak it. Further, they're inefficient against Rotate+Ion Knights, with a four melta squad averaging about 2.5 damage in melta range, making them less efficient than their weight in storm bolters at the same range (which is super sad). So they really just feed BGH and MFD points.

Second, Repressors are only a thing because of the firing ports, without them, they'd be overcosted Rhinos and you would never take them, just as you never take Rhinos.

The only way you can really get away from melta doms(which you shouldn't because they're awesome and not every list has ion shield knights and even lists that do have other targets they can go after) Is the Celestine 3 seraphim thing in a Soup list. At which point you're not really playing sisters anymore. Retributors are list padders at best, anything with a meaningful CQC profile is a gimmick you finish middle of the pack with in a locals tourney. Seraphim are good but thanks to the asinine rule of three you can't really bring enough of them to build a list around. Celestians are just gakky Battle sisters. Battle sisters are fine but are just gakky dominions if you wanna run MSU or gakky guardsmen if you wanna run horde. And at this point, you're now out of codex options.

Also, imagifiers could be Elites, HQs, Troops, Dedicated transports, or friggin fortifications and they'd STILL be terrible at 40pts. The problem isn't, and has never been fitting them into the FOC, the problem is finding a reason to justify taking them at all. They're too slow to be useful for dominions or seraphim and way too expensive to use on retributors or battle sisters. Almost any situation where you would take an imagifier it would be more efficient to take another unit of battle sisters or a unit of retributors, or even a canoness if you needed to fill a compulsory HQ slot.

 warmaster21 wrote:

(honestly repressors need to lose the fire ports)

Lol why? So we can be like Marines and never take a transport?

No fire ports essentially would mean no Repressors in the vast majority of lists, at least with any sort of attempt to be competitive. Fire ports are the only reason take a Repressor, if you want an overpriced transport you can take a Rhino, if you want an overpriced Flamer on top of a metal box you can take an Immolator. Obviously do whatever you want in friendly games.

So we'd be taking Seraphim, Rets, and souping in Guard, rather than Seraphim, Rets, Doms, BSS, and Repressors.

 Creeping Dementia wrote:

 warmaster21 wrote:

(honestly repressors need to lose the fire ports)

Lol why? So we can be like Marines and never take a transport?

No fire ports essentially would mean no Repressors in the vast majority of lists, at least with any sort of attempt to be competitive. Fire ports are the only reason take a Repressor, if you want an overpriced transport you can take a Rhino, if you want an overpriced Flamer on top of a metal box you can take an Immolator. Obviously do whatever you want in friendly games.

So we'd be taking Seraphim, Rets, and souping in Guard, rather than Seraphim, Rets, Doms, BSS, and Repressors.

Hey! There's nothing wrong with Immolators! Though they wouldn't mind a points drop. Especially for the Melta...

I have fond memories of Immolator Spam days too, but they just aren't great right now considering all our opponents are geared toward taking out knights. I'd like nothing more than to be running around with 6-8 Immolators like back in 5th edition, but the game just isn't the same anymore

reason im saying repressors need to lose firing ports is becuase nearly every armored vehicle that had firing ports had them removed in 8th edition or earlier

obviously rhinos are overcosted, so are immolators, though at least you can advance and shoot the immolation flamer. repressors had to have their points increased becuase of how stupid they are with dominions in them.

i would be perfectly fine with them turning repressors into just up gunned rhinos while immolators keep being our razorback equivalent. but i will agree that most transports need to be looked at for a reason to take them.

though we did have several editions of rhino spam and people complained, and editions where all transports were unplayable and people complained.

Iv always liked seraphim far more than dominions but with how the sisters army worked you just could never get away with taking more than 1 unit and were heavily required to take melta spam dominions in nearly every case. especially with how they completely destroyed hand flamers

and yes i understand how good breaking action economy is with AoF since we have Ynnead as a prime example of how powerful it can be, but as it is now it just does not scale at all in a pure sisters list. we get 2 nearly garunteed AoF a turn with celestine, 1 of which will most likely cost you a command point at some point.

Assuming acts of faith dont change with the beta codex, what if the effect of the imagifier was moved over to the cannoness who you would have to take anyways and the imagifier gained some sort of passive aura buff instead like the nob/waaagh banner

im really curious to see what they are going to do with AoF. the 3rd edition version was basically how command points work now, and i could easily see them moving alot of act of faith abilities to be "command" abilities which i kind of dont want to see unless we get ways to generate faith points that could be spent on acts of faith

i doubt we will see the return of unit based act of faith, and the current system of move again, shoot again, fight again, or heal is honestly just boring to me.

and hopefully we will see more incentive to field full sisters / ministorum lists

I think one of the biggest problems for Sisters have is Melta and our reliance on it for Anti-vehicle firepower. (Aside from the Exorcist (and it's own problems.))

 Creeping Dementia wrote:
I have fond memories of Immolator Spam days too, but they just aren't great right now considering all our opponents are geared toward taking out knights. I'd like nothing more than to be running around with 6-8 Immolators like back in 5th edition, but the game just isn't the same anymore

I'm expecting Knights to take a hit, come CA. Wether or not it changes the Meta, we'll have to see.
I don't want the game to quite go back to Immolator spam either, but I'm not entirely sure how to balance that...

 warmaster21 wrote:
reason im saying repressors need to lose firing ports is becuase nearly every armored vehicle that had firing ports had them removed in 8th edition or earlier

obviously rhinos are overcosted, so are immolators, though at least you can advance and shoot the immolation flamer. repressors had to have their points increased becuase of how stupid they are with dominions in them.

i would be perfectly fine with them turning repressors into just up gunned rhinos while immolators keep being our razorback equivalent. but i will agree that most transports need to be looked at for a reason to take them.

though we did have several editions of rhino spam and people complained, and editions where all transports were unplayable and people complained.

Iv always liked seraphim far more than dominions but with how the sisters army worked you just could never get away with taking more than 1 unit and were heavily required to take melta spam dominions in nearly every case. especially with how they completely destroyed hand flamers

and yes i understand how good breaking action economy is with AoF since we have Ynnead as a prime example of how powerful it can be, but as it is now it just does not scale at all in a pure sisters list. we get 2 nearly garunteed AoF a turn with celestine, 1 of which will most likely cost you a command point at some point.

Assuming acts of faith dont change with the beta codex, what if the effect of the imagifier was moved over to the cannoness who you would have to take anyways and the imagifier gained some sort of passive aura buff instead like the nob/waaagh banner

im really curious to see what they are going to do with AoF. the 3rd edition version was basically how command points work now, and i could easily see them moving alot of act of faith abilities to be "command" abilities which i kind of dont want to see unless we get ways to generate faith points that could be spent on acts of faith

i doubt we will see the return of unit based act of faith, and the current system of move again, shoot again, fight again, or heal is honestly just boring to me.

and hopefully we will see more incentive to field full sisters / ministorum lists

This is a super weird take on SoB to be honest. Repressors were bonkers in the indexes, sure. But between the nerfs, the rule of 3, and codex creep they're not really that big of a deal anymore. The fire points make it a solid, if un-amazing choice. If you take away the fire ports, you'd have to drop it 60pts to still be sub-par. At 110 it would be totally useless compared to a stock standard immolator, which is a decidedly mediocre choice in and of itself.

Dominions are the core of the army now that it's actually genuinely difficult to make 2000pts of sisters without spamming troops, but there were plenty of lists pre-rule of 3 that didn't use any and did quite well.

(Side bar: Of course people complained at 'RHINOS EVERYWHERE' and 'NEVER RHINOS' those are both bad. 'Rhinos sometimes' is what people were looking for.)

Also, seraphim are fantastic and while hand flamers are largely worthless, inferno pistols are better than they've EVER been, to the point where you see multiple soup lists with Celestine 3 seraphim as a detachment. Before the (totally garbage) rule of 3 came in there was actually a seraphim spam list that took 11th at the LVO. Even now people take the maximum number of seraphim all the time and see a lot of success with them. I personally would never build a list that didn't have at least 1 unit of seraphim and have done well at tournaments taking the full complement of 3 units.

The scaling issue for AoFs can be mostly solved by making imagifiers 10pts cheaper, bumping them up to a 3+ and giving their AoF ability a 12" range.The problem THEN becomes keeping enough infantry on the table for more than 2 AoFs to be useful. I find that I'm frustrated about having AoFs I can't really use almost as often as I wish for more.

A.T. wrote:
They get largely pigeon-holed into a coin flip on the first turn to advance seraphim followed by retributor support - at which point they are effectively a 40 point upgrade to an 85 point unit that lets them shoot twice every other round(ish). Not terrible but once the retributors get shot up the short range of the imagifier takes them out of action too.

Seraphim slingshot followed by Ret support is pretty much the best you can ask for though: assume a 75% chance to succeed on the Seraphim slingshot (50%+reroll), then provides obj capping and/or deepstrike denial while effectively generating 1.5 cp per turn.

Even if the Ret squad is wiped out, she can slingshot herself 12+d6" to an objective, where the character keyword makes her difficult to remove (and punishes the opponent when they do).

PuppetSoul wrote:
then provides obj capping and/or deepstrike denial while effectively generating 1.5 cp per turn.

1.5 cp per turn is a rather generous description.

More accurate (and still generous) would be that she provides 42.5 points of heavy bolter retributor firepower for 40 points of model.

 Aaranis wrote:
We've unboxed Blackstone Fortress at my store and I've had a quick glance at some datasheets. Thaddeus is just a Munistorum Priest with a stubber and a Power Maul, costs 65-80 pts, I don't remember. Dorne has a Assault flamer S5 AP-1 and a CC weapon for which I forgot the profile, and costs something like 25-30 pts, Elite choice.

Pious Vorne is at your low point guess, Taddeus is twice her cost at ten old melta-bombs. He does get 4 pistol shots a turn and zealot as well as a rosarius save. Not too bad for filling an HQ slot in an Adeptus Ministorum detachment. That may be important depending how the CA Dex rolls out PenEngines and the like. PenEngines were in the CA reveal video, but are they just updating ministorum and sororitas units at the same time or allowing both in the same detachment?

 dracpanzer wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
We've unboxed Blackstone Fortress at my store and I've had a quick glance at some datasheets. Thaddeus is just a Munistorum Priest with a stubber and a Power Maul, costs 65-80 pts, I don't remember. Dorne has a Assault flamer S5 AP-1 and a CC weapon for which I forgot the profile, and costs something like 25-30 pts, Elite choice.

Pious Vorne is at your low point guess, Taddeus is twice her cost at ten old melta-bombs. He does get 4 pistol shots a turn and zealot as well as a rosarius save. Not too bad for filling an HQ slot in an Adeptus Ministorum detachment. That may be important depending how the CA Dex rolls out PenEngines and the like. PenEngines were in the CA reveal video, but are they just updating ministorum and sororitas units at the same time or allowing both in the same detachment?

The characters are Elites.

ERJAK wrote:


The scaling issue for AoFs can be mostly solved by making imagifiers 10pts cheaper, bumping them up to a 3+ and giving their AoF ability a 12" range.The problem THEN becomes keeping enough infantry on the table for more than 2 AoFs to be useful. I find that I'm frustrated about having AoFs I can't really use almost as often as I wish for more.

Sort of. Even imagifiers aren't a scaling solution. I agree they should be cheaper but Rule of Three really prevents any attempt at scalability. You could use 6 just to keep a full complement of Rets going, not to mention ones you could use for your troops, Doms, etc.

In general I have been a fan of the Rule of Three, just not for a select few armies. Some armies (particularly Fringe armies), Sisters included, have such a limited selection of viable units that it makes it nearly impossible to succeed in staying relevant without souping.

 warmaster21 wrote:
reason im saying repressors need to lose firing ports is becuase nearly every armored vehicle that had firing ports had them removed in 8th edition or earlier

As opposed to open topped vehicles that currently let everyone inside shoot out? Repressors losing firing points would be the same as removing the unit from our arsenal entirely. There is no point in it without them.

obviously rhinos are overcosted, so are immolators, though at least you can advance and shoot the immolation flamer. repressors had to have their points increased becuase of how stupid they are with dominions in them.

Ro3 certainly helped with that, rhino's and immolators and exorcists need a point decrease or nice buff to make me consider taking them again.

Iv always liked seraphim far more than dominions but with how the sisters army worked you just could never get away with taking more than 1 unit and were heavily required to take melta spam dominions in nearly every case. especially with how they completely destroyed hand flamers

Hand flamers had always been great until 8ed made them bad. The 8ed Index also made inferno pistols fantastic, CA17 made them better. Their roles changed a bit, but there has always been a reason to bring lots of seraphim. Ro3 is the biggest problem Seraphim have right now.

Assuming acts of faith dont change with the beta codex, what if the effect of the imagifier was moved over to the cannoness who you would have to take anyways and the imagifier gained some sort of passive aura buff instead like the nob/waaagh banner

I am open to changing up the imagifer somehow, but I find the re-roll 1's far better on the canoness.

i doubt we will see the return of unit based act of faith, and the current system of move again, shoot again, fight again, or heal is honestly just boring to me.

and hopefully we will see more incentive to field full sisters / ministorum lists

I am glad the AoF only have the four options, they are useful, though having reason to use them on units that aren't retributors and seraphim would be great. Having to explain more than just the four current AoF ten times over the course of every game would be a much bigger pain.

Though I had started souping in baby Knights when I started building an army of them, I find that full sisters armies do quite well, punch way above their weight and surprise a lot of opponents. Ro3 is the only real nerf they have had in 8ed.

ERJAK wrote:
The only way you can really get away from melta doms(which you shouldn't because they're awesome and not every list has ion shield knights and even lists that do have other targets they can go after) Is the Celestine 3 seraphim thing in a Soup list. At which point you're not really playing sisters anymore.

It took me a fair bit of work to come up with a list that was Sisters primary, but still cost-efficient and effective compared to what I could run if I dropped Sisters.

ERJAK wrote:
Retributors are list padders at best,

We can't be friends anymore. I'm actually considering bringing a 3rd set of HB Rets in my list, although I don't want to drop a set of Seraphim to do it.

ERJAK wrote:
anything with a meaningful CQC profile is a gimmick you finish middle of the pack with in a locals tourney.

That goes for the game at large: if your melee option requires a dedicated transport, can't deepstrike, and can't pull off a turn1 charge, it's not good enough.

ERJAK wrote:
Celestians are just gakky Battle sisters. Battle sisters are fine but are just gakky dominions if you wanna run MSU or gakky guardsmen if you wanna run horde.

Celestians have a lot of problems, so I'm not going to get into them.
Regular Battle Sisters are only impeded by not being able to run storm bolters on every model: if the counterbalance between them and Dominions was that Dominions get the scout move for a point, and BSS can take a larger unit size of special weapons, then I could see there being a tradeoff. As it stands currently ablative wounds are too expensive to elite armies (with the exception of Tau).

ERJAK wrote:
Also, imagifiers could be Elites, HQs, Troops, Dedicated transports, or friggin fortifications and they'd STILL be terrible at 40pts. The problem isn't, and has never been fitting them into the FOC, the problem is finding a reason to justify taking them at all. They're too slow to be useful for dominions or seraphim and way too expensive to use on retributors or battle sisters. Almost any situation where you would take an imagifier it would be more efficient to take another unit of battle sisters or a unit of retributors, or even a canoness if you needed to fill a compulsory HQ slot.

Ready for the next level? That isn't a problem with the Imagifier.

Imagine, for example, that you could take a 9 HB ret squad. Would an Imagifier be cost-effective with it? Of course. But we can't do that, and are unlikely to get that in CA. But what if the Ret Superior could take the same weapon options as the squad, like Hellblasters' can? Well, then we'd have five HBs, so 95 points. If she generates half that value, she's making 47.5 points, and is cost-effective. But we're probably unlikely to see that as well, since HB Rets are actually in a pretty good spot right now (and are likely to be buffed by Orders). So let's go with something more tangible: multimeltas getting a point reduction. What if multimeltas get a cost reduction to 20 points. Would they be worth running? And if so, would they be worth Imagifiering? Probably yes to both.

Dropping their points cost to 30 would make them an auto-include as a 3-of, because even targeting the most basic troops in the army would still net 25 points per turn, and reviving a single Ret or Dom would immediately earn her points back. She'd be a no-risk slam dunk that your opponent can't play around.

At 40 points, there are only a handful of units that would allow her to earn her points back, and softening those units up allows you to throttle the AoF engine to where the Sisters player "gets frustrated that they're wasting AoF".

Lammia wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
We've unboxed Blackstone Fortress at my store and I've had a quick glance at some datasheets. Thaddeus is just a Munistorum Priest with a stubber and a Power Maul, costs 65-80 pts, I don't remember. Dorne has a Assault flamer S5 AP-1 and a CC weapon for which I forgot the profile, and costs something like 25-30 pts, Elite choice.

Pious Vorne is at your low point guess, Taddeus is twice her cost at ten old melta-bombs. He does get 4 pistol shots a turn and zealot as well as a rosarius save. Not too bad for filling an HQ slot in an Adeptus Ministorum detachment. That may be important depending how the CA Dex rolls out PenEngines and the like. PenEngines were in the CA reveal video, but are they just updating ministorum and sororitas units at the same time or allowing both in the same detachment?

The characters are Elites.

Pious is an Elite choice, Taddeus fills an HQ slot.