What would you say are the top tier Codexes of 8th edition. You see them at nearly every tournament, and they are consistently dominating 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place.

Ynnari and Imperial flavors of soup basically dominate everything. Nids, Tau, and CSM are probably in the next tier down.

Death Guard are top tier.

Martel732 wrote:
Death Guard are top tier.

Good army but I wouldn't put their codex in my top three. Might come close if we're talking pre-FAQ, but certainly not right now.

*spits out soda*

Who said harlequins lol

 Arth-Rytis wrote:
What would you say are the top tier Codexes of 8th edition. You see them at nearly every tournament, and they are consistently dominating 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place.

So this is like an open-book test?

ThePorcupine wrote:
*spits out soda*

Who said harlequins lol

probably the same person that said GK

I voted Drukhari (though I think it's the Dark Eldar + Eldar alliance that really breaks it with the psychic support), but IG and Eldar might be a tied second place.

Also, who voted Grey Knights? lmao.

Darsath wrote:
Also, who voted Grey Knights? lmao.

Probably the same two people who voted Ellucidian Starstriders.

There are certain soup builds that use small components of certain codexes, but I don't think that makes those Codexes the Strongest. For example, you see Dawneagle bikes, Skyweavers, Black Heart Ravagers, and Smash Captains a lot, doesn't mean their Codexes are the strongest.

I'd put the Strongest Codexes at:
Tyranids
Craftworld
Imperial Knights
With Death Guard, Guard, and Drukhari being close behind.

A.T. wrote:

Darsath wrote:
Also, who voted Grey Knights? lmao.

Probably the same two people who voted Ellucidian Starstriders.

Well, since the OP didn't ask a serious question, I didn't feel the need to give a serious reply.

ccs wrote:

A.T. wrote:

Darsath wrote:
Also, who voted Grey Knights? lmao.

Probably the same two people who voted Ellucidian Starstriders.

Well, since the OP didn't ask a serious question, I didn't feel the need to give a serious reply.

How is that not a serious question?

Anything that can 'soup' seems to be the hot flavour.

Standalone - I would say IG purely for CP shenanigans

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Anything that can 'soup' seems to be the hot flavour.

Standalone - I would say IG purely for CP shenanigans

But CP aren't that valuable to IG. They're handy, sure, but not nearly as powerful as CP for, say, Custodes or Knights.

But Imperial Guard is still an insanely OP army.

The prevalence of soup just obscures it.


Try running a mono-Codex event, and you'll see Pask/Tank Commander spam and/or Shadowblade-variant Spam brutalize these events.


SoCal Open finals after the first 10 minutes was essentially 1300 points of mono-Catachans winning against 2000 points of Ynnari.



People complain about Ynnari now. Wonder what they'd do if Dark Reapers could just natively double shoot like Leman Russes, no psychic power point of failure or limited to one unit, lol. Or move-move-move Spears across the table. And all without losing Chapter traits, etc.. Lol.

Darsath wrote:
I voted Drukhari (though I think it's the Dark Eldar + Eldar alliance that really breaks it with the psychic support), but IG and Eldar might be a tied second place.

Also, who voted Grey Knights? lmao.

QFT. Yvraine and double-shooting dark reapers regularly kill my face (plus scourge bomb will pick anything off they have missed)

Sunny Side Up wrote:
But Imperial Guard is still an insanely OP army.

The prevalence of soup just obscures it.


Try running a mono-Codex event, and you'll see Pask/Tank Commander spam and/or Shadowblade-variant Spam brutalize these events.


SoCal Open finals after the first 10 minutes was essentially 1300 points of mono-Catachans winning against 2000 points of Ynnari.



People complain about Ynnari now. Wonder what they'd do if Dark Reapers could just natively double shoot like Leman Russes, no psychic power point of failure or limited to one unit, lol. Or move-move-move Spears across the table. And all without losing Chapter traits, etc.. Lol.

MHM, SoCal was, how to put it, won thanks to wierd rules aswell as certain ICT or ITC houseruling, making shenaniganery possible unchargeable unshootable units hiding in a building using mortars. Secondly the castelan intself ate enough fire to be worth it, and made the rest of the rather squishy IG surivive that much longer, not to mention forcing the hand of the Eldar player into some manouvers which were favourable for the Imperial player afterwards.

Pasks and Tank commanders are basically what ammounts to a leman russ toughness wise and are only really problematic thanks to bs 2+ , in the case of pask, but he is a one off and if , like it is atm, killing a knight in one turn as shooting power for tournament lists is mandatory then i think you should not struggle with a little leman russ.
Thridly doubleshootung turret gun if the tank has moved, reducing sponson accuracy, as a side note, it's not just a flat upgrade like cacophony or soulburst.

Thousand Sons
Knights
Guard
DE
Ynnari



This one was easy


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And of course Elucidian Starstriders, glad someone voted for that clearly overpowered faction

 SHUPPET wrote:

And of course Elucidian Starstriders, glad someone voted for that clearly overpowered faction

Not just 1, 5 people, you have to respect the commitment to the troll. Either that or those individuals are so high slanesh would be proud.

Bit too early to put Orks in there.

Mini codexes should also be exempt.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Bit too early to put Orks in there.

Mini codexes should also be exempt.

Instead of minicodexes why not certain soups? IG+Knights+ BA for exemple.

Do people really have a problem with AM? They're one of my easier Matchups. Must just be a local meta thing...

Need to add a new voting option - 'anything with a 4 point imperial guardsman (aaaiiieeee)'

I like how when you poll dakka dakka on this subject, the results couldn't be further from reality.

The nine people who picked BA made a bad choice and should feel bad.

 Marmatag wrote:
I like how when you poll dakka dakka on this subject, the results couldn't be further from reality.

Explain? This seems pretty much on the money. Even when you factor allies - the strongest allies are getting the most votes.

Am
CWE
DE
IK
DG/TS




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
The nine people who picked BA made a bad choice and should feel bad.

Blame smash captain butthurt

Smash Capt already doa after faq.

Martel732 wrote:
Smash Capt already doa after faq.

That's the problem with butt hurt - it sticks around for a long time. Sometimes multiple editions.

As said,
CWE/DE, IG/Knights, TS/DG are probably the top tier.

If you had to name just one book I'd probably say CWE. I think they have the most impact on the meta and serve to keep IG honest. I suspect that without everyone's favorite psychic power mono DE might have more difficulty with knights.

Really though in a world where there was no soup I think Tau and Tyranids would be scoring up there too. Even the Marine factions are no so dreadful you can't pull off wins - although its more likely to be via objectives than tabling your opponent.

 Marmatag wrote:
I like how when you poll dakka dakka on this subject, the results couldn't be further from reality.

GK have done poorly in GTs throughout this edition. Do you have access to data that the rest of us don't have? Are there a bunch of secret basement tournaments with 100-200 of the best players in the country showing up that are being dominated by GK and we all just don't know about it?

Lol Grey Knights are an option

 fraser1191 wrote:
Lol Grey Knights are an option

Well of course, and 6 people play in places where they dominate.

Looks right to me.

Tier 1: AM, CWE, DE, IK
Tier 2: DG, TS, Nids, Custodes, Ork hype?
Tier 3: Everything else

The wording of this poll probably doesn't produce accurate rankings within tier 3 but tier 1/2 armies look right. As a mono dex and as a soup dex DE is definitely number 1.

Karol wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
Lol Grey Knights are an option

Well of course, and 6 people play in places where they dominate.

Or 6 trolls voted for them and the Starstriders, who you can't even make a legal 2k list with.

I voted GK as a joke. Because our codex is a joke.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
I voted GK as a joke. Because our codex is a joke.

But this was not the point of the poll.

 wuestenfux wrote:
But this was not the point of the poll.

Classic Teuton.
I don't think one vote for a codex everyone knows is garbage will swing it.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
I voted GK as a joke. Because our codex is a joke.

But this was not the point of the poll.

didnt you know? The point of every thread for Grey Knights players is to turn it into a whine about Grey Knights

 SHUPPET wrote:
didnt you know? The point of every thread for Grey Knights players is to turn it into a whine about Grey Knights

Absolutely.

People clearly don`t make difference between Craftworld`s codex and Ynnari. Excluding Ynnari and CW look underpowered.

 Toofast wrote:
Or 6 trolls voted for them and the Starstriders, who you can't even make a legal 2k list with.

Well, you can have your opinion about the people who voted GK or Starstriders.
But don't you DARE call the people that voted Gellerpox Infected trolls!

Note: more people voted Grey Knight than Dark Angels.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
didnt you know? The point of every thread for Grey Knights players is to turn it into a whine about Grey Knights

Absolutely.

Truely, the greatest of our father's sons


I wonder if in the future GW is going to added some new factions, like vaul machine to oppose the necron machines and ad mecha. Or arbites space marshalls.

Yep one thing the game is definitely lacking in is Aeldari and Imperium factions

 SHUPPET wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
I voted GK as a joke. Because our codex is a joke.

But this was not the point of the poll.

didnt you know? The point of every thread for Grey Knights players is to turn it into a whine about Grey Knights

This can also apply to many SM players in general

 Billagio wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
I voted GK as a joke. Because our codex is a joke.

But this was not the point of the poll.

didnt you know? The point of every thread for Grey Knights players is to turn it into a whine about Grey Knights

This can also apply to many SM players in general

It generally does, yes

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Billagio wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
I voted GK as a joke. Because our codex is a joke.

But this was not the point of the poll.

didnt you know? The point of every thread for Grey Knights players is to turn it into a whine about Grey Knights

This can also apply to many SM players in general

It generally does, yes

Not me... I voted SM. Because voting for anything else would have been heresy..

Marin wrote:
People clearly don`t make difference between Craftworld`s codex and Ynnari. Excluding Ynnari and CW look underpowered.

Really feel of the forums many myths this is the one that needs to die.

The Eldar codex, without allies (even Eldar-based soup) is decent, but not overpowered. Without allies it consists of mainly a handful of really solid units. As a book, there's a load of crap which is questionable in the remotest of competitive environs which is a shame.

Sadly Codex Eldar in the competitive scene consists of a micro-codex:
-Dark Reapers
-Shining Spears
-Psykers
-Large Guardian units
-FIre Prisms.

The rest of the book is middling to poor, though some of the units are fun enough in a casual setting. I enjoy my Eldar, but there are some genuine turds in the book. Even as a casual player I struggle to justify 250 points on an Avatar, or ever fielding Storm Guardians, Support Weapons, etc.

 Elbows wrote:
The Eldar codex, without allies (even Eldar-based soup) is decent, but not overpowered. Without allies it consists of mainly a handful of really solid units. As a book, there's a load of crap which is questionable in the remotest of competitive environs which is a shame.

Sadly Codex Eldar in the competitive scene consists of a micro-codex:
-Dark Reapers
-Shining Spears
-Psykers
-Large Guardian units
-FIre Prisms.

The rest of the book is middling to poor, though some of the units are fun enough in a casual setting. I enjoy my Eldar, but there are some genuine turds in the book. Even as a casual player I struggle to justify 250 points on an Avatar, or ever fielding Storm Guardians, Support Weapons, etc.

And weave serpents, and Wright guard lists seem to score high in events from time to time. And their flyers are gods. Yeah only around 10 units in the codex are very good. I am assuming in the past eldar codex had more then 10 options that were meta defining in the past, for eldar to claim being under powered right now ? Or am I wrong here.

As a learning expiriance eldar players should maybe be made to download the GK codex and check what the word underpowered means, and if they still think their eldar are bad, how about playing 20-30 games as GK.

By the way I would love to have something like stormguardians or the support weapons in my codex. And the avatar can wreck my army in melee, when buffed and costs a lot less then a comperable NDK.

Who voted grey knights? I can only assume... Maybe people who don't play with FAQs or chapter approved and have been the victim of their old alpha strike in casual games? Or they have that one friend who IS really good and makes up for the GK meh-ness? Or they run an army that struggles with 3 dreadknight grandmasters?

Could be open play someone plays a napolenic era styled regiment. Las dudes in Ranks , few heavy weapons as artilery pices, no tanks, no ally. someone dropiing 5 GM NDKS with incinerators could be really unfun to face. Specially if the old deep strike rules.

There are, it seems 3 people who play against Necrons I need to seek out their opponents and throw myself down before them and beg them to take me on as student.

or alternatively, the Deceiver is having a cosmic laugh at my expense

Everyone jokes at GKs being on the list but I laughed at my poor, poor, Necrons even being an option.

Are eldar not on this list? Am I blind or do I just not recognize whatever they're being called nowadays?

Marin wrote:
People clearly don`t make difference between Craftworld`s codex and Ynnari. Excluding Ynnari and CW look underpowered.

Hard to respond to this without ignoring rule #1.

Mono CWE are VERY good.

Altiotoc and Ulthwe are both viable.

Top units-
Shinning spears (arguable the best unit in the entire game)
Farseers of multiple varieties (arguably the best psykers in the entire game)
Spirit seers (arguably the best supporting spells in the game)

Fire Prisms (linked fire stratagem is straight god mode)
Wave Serpants (Arguably the best vehicle in the entire game) (protecting your glass cannon infantry)
Crimson hunter Exarchs/ Hemlocks (arguably the best flyers in the game)
Dark Reapers (Arguably the best long range infantry in the game - even after being nerfed)

Stratagems (top teir - Deep strike practically any unit, on demand -1 to hit on almost any unit, hosts of other useful stratagems such as 4++ for gardians, +1 to hit for ulthwe gardians)

I really can't take anyone seriously that calls CWE underpowered.

Are we talking mono-dex here? 'cause mono Guard is not all that overwhelming, and mono-IK are a gimmick list at best.

Mono guard are very overwhelming. You arent playing against the right lists.

 Xenomancers wrote:

Marin wrote:
People clearly don`t make difference between Craftworld`s codex and Ynnari. Excluding Ynnari and CW look underpowered.

Hard to respond to this without ignoring rule #1.

Mono CWE are VERY good.

Altiotoc and Ulthwe are both viable.

Top units-
Shinning spears (arguable the best unit in the entire game)
Farseers of multiple varieties (arguably the best psykers in the entire game)
Spirit seers (arguably the best supporting spells in the game)

Fire Prisms (linked fire stratagem is straight god mode)
Wave Serpants (Arguably the best vehicle in the entire game) (protecting your glass cannon infantry)
Crimson hunter Exarchs/ Hemlocks (arguably the best flyers in the game)
Dark Reapers (Arguably the best long range infantry in the game - even after being nerfed)

Stratagems (top teir - Deep strike practically any unit, on demand -1 to hit on almost any unit, hosts of other useful stratagems such as 4++ for gardians, +1 to hit for ulthwe gardians)

I really can't take anyone seriously that calls CWE underpowered.

They call CWE underpowered because maybe they are comparing it to Dark Eldar. lol.

One of these days someone is going to actually add Sisters of Battle to a poll. I'm pretty sure the army is overlooked 99.9% of the time.

Lol. Index sisters are still better than quite a few codex armies too!

Extra actions is boss.

 deviantduck wrote:
One of these days someone is going to actually add Sisters of Battle to a poll. I'm pretty sure the army is overlooked 99.9% of the time.

GW overlooked them for almost 20 years, so it's easy to do.

Reanimation_Protocol wrote:
There are, it seems 3 people who play against Necrons I need to seek out their opponents and throw myself down before them and beg them to take me on as student.

or alternatively, the Deceiver is having a cosmic laugh at my expense

Necrons are actually incredibly oppressive and difficult to defeat... if you're a bad player. Someone who doesn't use their offense efficiently to deny RP will find them quite frustrating to play against and eventually lose to attrition. Usually these sorts of discussions are made to assume that both players are good at the game, though.

 Xenomancers wrote:


I really can't take anyone seriously that calls CWE underpowered.

Well, please understand that if CWE are underpowered,
(1) CWE plyers have greater skill than average because they play (and get victories) with an underpowered codex
(2) CWE deserve buffs in future FAQs and Chapter Approved editions, which will benefit CWE players
(3) People should not refuse games with CWE players or complain that they only won because of an overpowered codex, because it is underpowered.

so it is definitely a truth that would give CWE players an advantage, so it is perfectly normal for them to believe this truth and try and convince others of it.

Mark.

Thousand Sons is way too low. Tied with Tyranids, DGand below Orks? Dakka behind as always.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Thousand Sons is way too low. Tied with Tyranids, DGand below Orks? Dakka behind as always.

That's always been the problem with this kind of polls. Do you rate the Codex as a whole, or just the few competitive units it has ? Thousand Sons are very strong as a part of Soup (Ahriman, broken Daemon Princes, etc...) but these units don't make the army great by themselves. 80% of the codex is trash or mid-tier.

Knights is not a top dex without Guard and it's the same people voting, so either they are including soup and they wrong about Thousand Sons, or they not including it and they wrong about Knights. Either way, Dakka is behind again.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Knights is not a top dex without Guard and it's the same people voting, so either they are including soup and they wrong about Thousand Sons, or they not including it and they wrong about Knights. Either way, Dakka is behind again.

]It is because it's cool to hate knights, all the cool kids say Knights are OP therfor they are.
The cool kids arn't complaining about thousand sons therfor to the masses they are balanced/weak

The strongest 3 pure codexes (no allies) in my opinion would be (in no particular order):

Dark Eldar, Eldar and Imperial Guard.

If take into account soup... you prob can't poll it. However, any of those 3 in a soup (for the factions that can take them) it will always make the army better, so has to be top (whether add command points/damage/strats/efficiency/ etc).

I think DeathGuard as a mono build are quite strong.

Ice_can wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Knights is not a top dex without Guard and it's the same people voting, so either they are including soup and they wrong about Thousand Sons, or they not including it and they wrong about Knights. Either way, Dakka is behind again.

]It is because it's cool to hate knights, all the cool kids say Knights are OP therfor they are.
The cool kids arn't complaining about thousand sons therfor to the masses they are balanced/weak

thats more or less what I'm saying

This poll is just highlightihighlighting the reactionary nature of Dakka

At 1750 or 2k points pure Knights are average, objectives is always their folly. No way they are a Top codex. In soup yes, Solo...

My votes are for Astra Militarum, Drukhari, and Imperial Knights in that order.

 Ratius wrote:
I think DeathGuard as a mono build are quite strong.

Death Guard with a mono build are strong, but they're at their strongest when they bring Chaos Knights into play and combine it with their crazy stratagems.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
I think DeathGuard as a mono build are quite strong.

Death Guard with a mono build are strong, but they're at their strongest when they bring Chaos Knights into play and combine it with their crazy stratagems.

That's Imperial Knights generally speaking for any faction that can take them.

DG as a mono build are solid mid-field with some combos, that when they work - they pay off really well. Definitely not top tier, but better than other books for sure.

DG at the moment, competitively speaking, are relegated to Nurgle Soup rather than a pure DG list.

Not Orks lmao

fe40k wrote:
Not Orks lmao

Not enough time for anyone to have proper experience with the new book.

 SHUPPET wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Knights is not a top dex without Guard and it's the same people voting, so either they are including soup and they wrong about Thousand Sons, or they not including it and they wrong about Knights. Either way, Dakka is behind again.

]It is because it's cool to hate knights, all the cool kids say Knights are OP therfor they are.
The cool kids arn't complaining about thousand sons therfor to the masses they are balanced/weak

thats more or less what I'm saying

This poll is just highlightihighlighting the reactionary nature of Dakka

So I presume you are saying TSon is strongest? How many tournaments they have dominated then? I presume you have some evidence to back off the claim then?

 SHUPPET wrote:
Knights is not a top dex without Guard and it's the same people voting, so either they are including soup and they wrong about Thousand Sons, or they not including it and they wrong about Knights. Either way, Dakka is behind again.

I guess its the difference between strong and competitive.
Knights are a skew. They are not a top dex because they make the meta go "Thy shalt spend a significant chunk of your points on units to kill Knights."
If you do that they are not competitive - in fact they can be quite weak.

But if you don't do that you can have incredibly one-sided (or at least "run round the table grabbing objectives, hope to die slowly"-sided) games which are not fun.

tneva82 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Knights is not a top dex without Guard and it's the same people voting, so either they are including soup and they wrong about Thousand Sons, or they not including it and they wrong about Knights. Either way, Dakka is behind again.

]It is because it's cool to hate knights, all the cool kids say Knights are OP therfor they are.
The cool kids arn't complaining about thousand sons therfor to the masses they are balanced/weak

thats more or less what I'm saying

This poll is just highlightihighlighting the reactionary nature of Dakka

So I presume you are saying TSon is strongest? How many tournaments they have dominated then? I presume you have some evidence to back off the claim then?

Thats kind of irrelevant, the threads about mono codecies but tournements are dominated by soup.

That said, TSons really aren't amongst the strongest codecies, my Drukhari can take them apart pretty easily, and thats against a player who is without doubt better than me (and running 27 Tzaangor Enlightened with all the buffs and backed up by Contemptors and Leviathans).

tneva82 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Knights is not a top dex without Guard and it's the same people voting, so either they are including soup and they wrong about Thousand Sons, or they not including it and they wrong about Knights. Either way, Dakka is behind again.

]It is because it's cool to hate knights, all the cool kids say Knights are OP therfor they are.
The cool kids arn't complaining about thousand sons therfor to the masses they are balanced/weak

thats more or less what I'm saying

This poll is just highlightihighlighting the reactionary nature of Dakka

So I presume you are saying TSon is strongest? How many tournaments they have dominated then? I presume you have some evidence to back off the claim then?

Lmao where did I say the were the strongest? That's your words and not my claim and I don't have to support your hyperbole at all. However, they are ONE of the best dexes in the game, and yes the tournament results absolutely support that.

I know that some people grumble how 1ksons are a codex of 3 good units, and how bad that is. So maybe it is that. I mean we just saw eldar players saying their book is underpowered, because they only have 10 very powerful units.

I would metaphorically kill for 1 good unit type.

Karol wrote:
I know that some people grumble how 1ksons are a codex of 3 good units, and how bad that is. So maybe it is that. I mean we just saw eldar players saying their book is underpowered, because they only have 10 very powerful units.

I would metaphorically kill for 1 good unit type.

Most codexes are that way.

Custodes? Codex Bikers.

Imperial Knights? Codex Gallants and Castellans, with sometimes Helverins.

Nobody is running around complaining about Custodes Terminators or Imperial Knight Paladins.

It's always just 1-2 things that are so much better it isn't funny.

Karol wrote:
I know that some people grumble how 1ksons are a codex of 3 good units, and how bad that is. So maybe it is that. I mean we just saw eldar players saying their book is underpowered, because they only have 10 very powerful units.

I would metaphorically kill for 1 good unit type.

Most people have never heard of a mutalith vortex beast. Or even know what it does - but it is a great unit and it synergies with all your good choices.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Cephalobeard wrote:

Karol wrote:
I know that some people grumble how 1ksons are a codex of 3 good units, and how bad that is. So maybe it is that. I mean we just saw eldar players saying their book is underpowered, because they only have 10 very powerful units.

I would metaphorically kill for 1 good unit type.

Most codexes are that way.

Custodes? Codex Bikers.

Imperial Knights? Codex Gallants and Castellans, with sometimes Helverins.

Nobody is running around complaining about Custodes Terminators or Imperial Knight Paladins.

It's always just 1-2 things that are so much better it isn't funny.

Crusaders and warglaives are also excellent.

It's true though - you don't judge an army based on how many good choices they have but whether or not they can build an army with nothing but good choices.
Knights can do it - thousand sons can do it.
Armies that can't do it suck.

Ahriman, Daemon Prince, Sorcerors, Exalteds, Enlightened, Cultists, Tzaangors, Magnus


And that's just the stuff good enough that it often makes the list on top table Chaos soup. As Xenos said, units like Mutalith & Shaman are also playable, infact I've seen the Shaman do well at tournament before too.

What they mean when they say "3 playable units" is "waaaa my Rubrics are still overpriced". And even they are in the best shape theyvtheyve ever been in, and mostly just suffer from being PA in 8th, and are still semi usable to thicken out a battalion for cheap Smites.

I'm loving TSons and they are kinda downplayed on here.

 SHUPPET wrote:
...infact I've seen the Shaman do well at tournament before too.

Ran into a player unfamiliar with them (and unlucky with dispels) and let a full enlightened squad get buffed in charge range of Mortarion.
I rolled poorly and Morty walked away with a couple of wounds left. Have to say I was torn between using the double attack stratagem to finish him off or the escort princes who were getting mauled by a warptiming tzaangor blob.

8e Tsons have always struck me as the kind of codex that takes soup for extra firepower (like DE taking farseers) rather than as a crutch.

A.T. wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
...infact I've seen the Shaman do well at tournament before too.

Ran into a player unfamiliar with them (and unlucky with dispels) and let a full enlightened squad get buffed in charge range of Mortarion.
I rolled poorly and Morty walked away with a couple of wounds left. Have to say I was torn between using the double attack stratagem to finish him off or the escort princes who were getting mauled by a warptiming tzaangor blob.

8e Tsons have always struck me as the kind of codex that takes soup for extra firepower (like DE taking farseers) rather than as a crutch.

I would say the biggest issue with Tsons codex is it's best build have 0 Tsons it's codex AoS models but it does have some power in it just not in Tsons units.

That's not an uncommon complaint:
-CSM complain that, often, they're better off with Cultists than Heretic Marines
-Marines often are better off with more Scouts and other things than Marines
-Lists with CWE often have more Outcasts than Craftworlders

There used to be someone on this board who created a poll every couple weeks asking what is the strongest, what is the best, etc. It was really just to get people to argue.

Hoping that's not going to become a trend again.

I don't think there's a point to be made here, everyone understands the relative strength of each Codex already. Any nuanced points about how certain match ups favor certain armies is not really a measure of strength.

These threads would do fine if everyone wasn't so heavily biased.

 Xenomancers wrote:
These threads would do fine if everyone wasn't so heavily biased.

It's hard to be biased when your primary faction isn't even ever considered an option on these polls even though they're a decent upper mid-tier army.

 deviantduck wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
These threads would do fine if everyone wasn't so heavily biased.

It's hard to be biased when your primary faction isn't even ever considered an option on these polls even though they're a decent upper mid-tier army.

What army is missing? Inquisition?

Gsc and Sisters, though both are not Codex armies yet. Which means they SHOULD be absent from the list at this moment.

 Carnikang wrote:
Gsc and Sisters, though both are not Codex armies yet. Which means they SHOULD be absent from the list at this moment.

It seems just the codex armies are listed so...I'm in total agreement with you.

Ice_can wrote:

A.T. wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
...infact I've seen the Shaman do well at tournament before too.

Ran into a player unfamiliar with them (and unlucky with dispels) and let a full enlightened squad get buffed in charge range of Mortarion.
I rolled poorly and Morty walked away with a couple of wounds left. Have to say I was torn between using the double attack stratagem to finish him off or the escort princes who were getting mauled by a warptiming tzaangor blob.

8e Tsons have always struck me as the kind of codex that takes soup for extra firepower (like DE taking farseers) rather than as a crutch.

I would say the biggest issue with Tsons codex is it's best build have 0 Tsons it's codex AoS models but it does have some power in it just not in Tsons units.

thats exactly what I said the whine was earlier. But when they are flipping that into "dex only has three playable units" it's straight downplay. Oh no your top tier dex didnt get to play its iconic unit at the highest level of play. welcome to Tau, Tyranid every past edition, every power armor army, etc, except without the top tier part.

 SHUPPET wrote:

thats exactly what I said the whine was earlier. But when they are flipping that into "dex only has three playable units" it's straight downplay. Oh no your top tier dex didnt get to play its iconic unit at the highest level of play. welcome to Tau, Tyranid every past edition, every power armor army, etc, except without the top tier part.

Am not sure if I understand downplay the right way. But does the 1ksons have any other good unit other then ahriman, tzangors and magnus/DP ?

 SHUPPET wrote:

thats exactly what I said the whine was earlier. But when they are flipping that into "dex only has three playable units" it's straight downplay. Oh no your top tier dex didnt get to play its iconic unit at the highest level of play. welcome to Tau, Tyranid every past edition, every power armor army, etc, except without the top tier part.

Maybe it's not appropriate to the context, but it's still a legitimate criticism say "Now, eventually you might have Thousand Sons on your, on your Thousand Sons army, right?"

Other armies having worse things does not mean most armies don't have bad things.

Karol wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

thats exactly what I said the whine was earlier. But when they are flipping that into "dex only has three playable units" it's straight downplay. Oh no your top tier dex didnt get to play its iconic unit at the highest level of play. welcome to Tau, Tyranid every past edition, every power armor army, etc, except without the top tier part.

Am not sure if I understand downplay the right way. But does the 1ksons have any other good unit other then ahriman, tzangors and magnus/DP ?

yes back a page

Kaiyanwang wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

thats exactly what I said the whine was earlier. But when they are flipping that into "dex only has three playable units" it's straight downplay. Oh no your top tier dex didnt get to play its iconic unit at the highest level of play. welcome to Tau, Tyranid every past edition, every power armor army, etc, except without the top tier part.

Maybe it's not appropriate to the context, but it's still a legitimate criticism say "Now, eventually you might have Thousand Sons on your, on your Thousand Sons army, right?"

it is, but the topic was which armies are strongest, not which armies have the most thematic strong units

Cephalobeard wrote:Other armies having worse things does not mean most armies don't have bad things.

Did anyone say that?

Thousand sons are certainly better than some of the armies they're ranked with. Three good units is a bit of hyperbole.

Seems a better pole would be what are the strongest non character units (with no support).

Except support is part of the game.

Unsupported? My Plaguebearers suck.

With support? They rock.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Marin wrote:
People clearly don`t make difference between Craftworld`s codex and Ynnari. Excluding Ynnari and CW look underpowered.

Hard to respond to this without ignoring rule #1.

Mono CWE are VERY good.

Altiotoc and Ulthwe are both viable.

Top units-
Shinning spears (arguable the best unit in the entire game)
Farseers of multiple varieties (arguably the best psykers in the entire game)
Spirit seers (arguably the best supporting spells in the game)

Fire Prisms (linked fire stratagem is straight god mode)
Wave Serpants (Arguably the best vehicle in the entire game) (protecting your glass cannon infantry)
Crimson hunter Exarchs/ Hemlocks (arguably the best flyers in the game)
Dark Reapers (Arguably the best long range infantry in the game - even after being nerfed)

Stratagems (top teir - Deep strike practically any unit, on demand -1 to hit on almost any unit, hosts of other useful stratagems such as 4++ for gardians, +1 to hit for ulthwe gardians)

I really can't take anyone seriously that calls CWE underpowered.

They call CWE underpowered because maybe they are comparing it to Dark Eldar. lol.

There was mono army tournament in October. Its surprise(not) that AM won index orc were 2 and GK finished 4 place.