I know they are a bit expensive in points but what happend to the classic drop pod insertion of space marines? Are they just so out of the meats now that they are not considered at all? Are they any good in friendly games or are they just not worth it at all?

Whatever it can do, not it can do better.

Points are too high.

Deep Strike requires the contents to *also* remain outside 9".

Plasma trumps Melta easily. So getting within 12" isn't such a big deal.

Charging chaff with Tac Marines isn't so great anymore.

Lots of reasons Pods are worse than they were.

They are so super expensive in points that they're completely worthless.

Had they been like 30 pts im sure they would be taken. They are too durable for that though. The board would be cluttered with hard to kill terrain

They are gak bad really thats why you never see them

With the changes to deep strike, theres absolutely no point to taking them. All armies have access to deep strike now, and nobody can come in till turn 2.


If they gave drop pods something only they could do, they would be worth it, but it would have to be something like letting them deep strike on turn 1 to make pods viable again.


Atm they are just fairly cheap and durable objective holders that aren't obsec.

Deepstrike is far too punishing and most units that can use them are not as effective as they once were, (with the exception of sternguard).

I think they are also just a pain to build.

The other big issue is that immobility, especially in this edition, is super-punishing. Paying a premium price for a transport with pretty much no fire power, no mobility after deployment and limited viable units to transport means they're basically just a fancy paper weight.

Deep strike is like 1 CP for a whole unit for a lot of armies and they can use it twice or unlimited times. This makes a drop pod with a storm bolter worth like 20-30 points. Not 70.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Deepstrike is far too punishing and most units that can use them are not as effective as they once were, (with the exception of sternguard).

I think they are also just a pain to build.

I once had 4 of those burgers. I don't have plans to buy them ever again, and mine are toast!

They are expensive, and lost their niche.

It used to be you needed them for accurate DS. Now everyone can do that.
First turn? Nope, and again, the come in the same as everyone.
Drop into flamer/melta range? Nope. So what do you need to DS? Pretty much all our CC options can DS natively.
Add mobility to Cents/Dreads? Not any more.

What units want to be close, but outside 9” and is worth spending the points on a pod? Sternguard, plasma spam? But once you factor in the pod cost, is it still worth it?

They still do OK in casual games. But they don’t bring anything new to the table any more.

 Nevelon wrote:

What units want to be close, but outside 9” and is worth spending the points on a pod?

Hellblasters...

The worse part about them is that by the time your buying the third drop pod squad, you may as well get DW veterans, and just get better ammo and storm shields on multiple dudes.

One rule will fix them

Make them Fast Attack (not dedicated so Ro3 is in place) let them DS turn 1.

With the reserves rule I'm wondering if allowing them to DS turn 1 would make them useful.

Still needs a further points drop. Shouldn't be more than 50.

 buddha wrote:
With the reserves rule I'm wondering if allowing them to DS turn 1 would make them useful.

Still needs a further points drop. Shouldn't be more than 50.

Its so funny, back in 5th when the damage and Penning vehicle chart was a thing, a 35pt Rhino and Drop pod was INSANE for the points, i couldnt believe how cheap they where compare to many units. Then 8th came out and made them all 70-100pts and i was happy, but now knowing how the power level went up 300% (+ to hit, re-rolls on everything, more shots, etc...) but ow they should go back down to 35pts b.c how worthless they actually are lol.

Drop pods were pure cheese 6th through 7th.

What happened in 8th is the price hikes and more limitation on who can ride.

Now that they are expensive garbage, and loyalists stopped buying them, we should finally let the CSM faction get them.

The reason you took drop pods was in previous editions were that they were cheap and a rare way to get a semi accurate deep strike. Now that scattering is not a thing any more and most things that can even take a DP are pretty much low tier, they don't have a place in the game unless they get a massive point drop or scattering comes back (which it should).

To be playable they need to be 20-30 points. You can deepstrike a squad for 1 CP.

Ask yourself a question. What is a flimsy vehicle with a strom bolter than can't move worth?

 Xenomancers wrote:
To be playable they need to be 20-30 points. You can deepstrike a squad for 1 CP.

Ask yourself a question. What is a flimsy vehicle with a strom bolter than can't move worth?

Depends on the rules, if it can ignore "no DS turn 1" and is able it, its worth 65pts easily, i'd say its worth 80pts.

If its just another way to DS a unit without spending CP? Then not much, 30pts but 50pts max i'd say.

 Xenomancers wrote:
To be playable they need to be 20-30 points. You can deepstrike a squad for 1 CP.

Ask yourself a question. What is a flimsy vehicle with a strom bolter than can't move worth?

35 points.

 Xenomancers wrote:
To be playable they need to be 20-30 points. You can deepstrike a squad for 1 CP.

Ask yourself a question. What is a flimsy vehicle with a strom bolter than can't move worth?

I've never quite been sure why Drop Pods needed to be treated as large imposing vehicle models as opposed to just an ability or a terrain piece.

If there weren't the GW concern for selling drop pod models, I'd ideally say just represent Drop Pods by making Deep Strike an ability SM squads can buy for +Xpts per squad.

Given that a model must be kept and that people will want it to have a gun that shoots stuff annoyingly, instead of bothering to pay for a T6 W8 lump, why not just make it a T4 3+sv W1 Fearless BS3+ Storm Bolter, that otherwise remains on the table and acts as terrain that can then be used for cover by a squad that it grants the ability to Deep Strike to? Add it to any squad for say, 15-30pts.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
To be playable they need to be 20-30 points. You can deepstrike a squad for 1 CP.

Ask yourself a question. What is a flimsy vehicle with a strom bolter than can't move worth?

I've never quite been sure why Drop Pods needed to be treated as large imposing vehicle models as opposed to just an ability or a terrain piece.

If there weren't the GW concern for selling drop pod models, I'd ideally say just represent Drop Pods by making Deep Strike an ability SM squads can buy for +Xpts per squad.

Given that a model must be kept and that people will want it to have a gun that shoots stuff annoyingly, instead of bothering to pay for a T6 W8 lump, why not just make it a T4 3+sv W1 Fearless BS3+ Storm Bolter, that otherwise remains on the table and acts as terrain that can then be used for cover by a squad that it grants the ability to Deep Strike to? Add it to any squad for say, 15-30pts.

I think drop pods just being a piece or wargear solves quite a few problems with them. As wargear it would be easy to explain why they can't hold objectives and not count for kill points as you haven't actually slain the unit attached to it. Also as wargear, it is much easier to allow enemy models to just treat it as (destructible) terrain that doesn't create weird barriers, well beyond a certain type of dangerous terrain that prevent them from just moving pass it they want to.

The only thing I would like more is a non-Forge World one for Chaos.

Imagine being able to put a shield generator in a drop pod. Units including the pod within 8 inches of the hull gain a 5++.

Imagine being able to give droppods weapon rigs. Or energy generators that extend weapon range, add weapon strength or AP and provide cover.

Seems to me that their will probably be a primaris drop pod at some point that will be loads better than the old ones. It's just a waiting game.

There just isn’t a Marine unit capable of going in a Drop Pod that is worth 65pts to Deep Strike. Most units pay 2-3pts per model to Deep Strike; in this case you’re asking 7-12pts. Even if they could Deep Strike Turn 1 like they used to it isn’t worth it. If they were 20-30pts they’d be a solid mobility upgrade for a unit, but at 65 you’re better off just grabbing 5 extra models and foot slogging it, or jumping in a Rhino.

I agree they would work better as a piece of wargear. I’d make them work like Feculent Gnarlmaws - once placed, they become terrain. Something like:

- 25pts with Stormbolter, upgrade for a unit rather than a unit itself
- placed using Deep Strike rules, with models inside disembarking
- after models disembarked, becomes a piece of terrain with a weapon (but as it is terrain it can’t benefit from auras and such)
- if an enemy model finishes any move on the terrain the weapon is permanently disabled
- 10pts additional upgrade to let unit disembarking fire heavy weapons without penalty the turn they arrive
- 10(/15?)pts additional upgrade to let the pod arrive first turn

I'm thinking Pods may be useful again with the prospect of 2 5man Command Squads, w/Storm Shields and Plasma.

Pods do have a very important bonus over other Deep Strike options, in that only the Pod can be Forewarned/Auspex Scanned against. The units inside are un-interceptable.

Here is how you fix Drop Pods. You make the No Deep Strikes Turn 1 a standard rule. Then you make Drop Pods able to bypass that rule.

As of right now, things like Stratagems and easily acquired deep strike make Pods a 65 pt trash bucket.

Edit: Posting at work. Looks like people had the exact same thought.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
To be playable they need to be 20-30 points. You can deepstrike a squad for 1 CP.

Ask yourself a question. What is a flimsy vehicle with a strom bolter than can't move worth?

Depends on the rules, if it can ignore "no DS turn 1" and is able it, its worth 65pts easily, i'd say its worth 80pts.

If its just another way to DS a unit without spending CP? Then not much, 30pts but 50pts max i'd say.

Turn 1 it would probably be worth it's points now but still on the high end IMO. Only if it could deep strike primaris and plus dreads like it always has been able to. Maybe just have it be a roll to come in turn 1 to make it more fair but not have to charge too much for it.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Togusa wrote:
Imagine being able to put a shield generator in a drop pod. Units including the pod within 8 inches of the hull gain a 5++.

Imagine being able to give droppods weapon rigs. Or energy generators that extend weapon range, add weapon strength or AP and provide cover.

Seems to me that their will probably be a primaris drop pod at some point that will be loads better than the old ones. It's just a waiting game.

That would be sweet. They have FW drop pods that are missile launchers - but they can't transport.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Drop pods were pure cheese 6th through 7th.

What happened in 8th is the price hikes and more limitation on who can ride.

Now that they are expensive garbage, and loyalists stopped buying them, we should finally let the CSM faction get them.

There is really no reason why Chaos doesn't have them. Probably just trying to give marines something special over chaos who have tons of unique infantry and the ability to summon daemons and such. That kinda sucks now but it didn't always suck.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
To be playable they need to be 20-30 points. You can deepstrike a squad for 1 CP.

Ask yourself a question. What is a flimsy vehicle with a strom bolter than can't move worth?

I've never quite been sure why Drop Pods needed to be treated as large imposing vehicle models as opposed to just an ability or a terrain piece.

If there weren't the GW concern for selling drop pod models, I'd ideally say just represent Drop Pods by making Deep Strike an ability SM squads can buy for +Xpts per squad.

Given that a model must be kept and that people will want it to have a gun that shoots stuff annoyingly, instead of bothering to pay for a T6 W8 lump, why not just make it a T4 3+sv W1 Fearless BS3+ Storm Bolter, that otherwise remains on the table and acts as terrain that can then be used for cover by a squad that it grants the ability to Deep Strike to? Add it to any squad for say, 15-30pts.

I have a similar opinion. Make it work more like a tau missle turret with a firewarrior squad. If the squad leaves it - it's just a useless peice of terrain. If the dudes are within 3" of it - you can shoot the storm bolter. No reason to even have it be targetable. I'm sure enemy soldiers know it can't really hurt them.

Aside from being too expensive, Drop Pods would need an immobile rule similar to Tarantulas or the like.

As long as the opponent can protect his Genestealers or Cultist blobs or even Riptides from all your fancy shooting by having one gently touch your drop pod, which cannot Hit back or fall back, these things areprobably units your opponent would pay you to drop near his units.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Aside from being too expensive, Drop Pods would need an immobile rule similar to Tarantulas or the like.

As long as the opponent can protect his Genestealers or Cultist blobs or even Riptides from all your fancy shooting by having one gently touch your drop pod, which cannot Hit back or fall back, these things areprobably units your opponent would pay you to drop near his units.

Could treat them like Feculant Gnarlmaws. That way they can't be targeted, charged or engaged and for all intents they are terrain that have special interactions with your units. i.e. allows an infantry/dreadnought unit to "Deepstrike" turn 1 following normal rules and some mobile LOS blocking options for the player.
.

Pods would be worth it if there was a unit that was worth putting in one. Currently there is no such unit. Vanguard Vets can DS natively, as can Terminators. Assault Centurions come to mind, but they can't ride in a pod anymore. The only thing that comes to mind that can actually ride in a pod is a squad of Veterans (Sternguard or regular Company veterans) with melta or plasma, preferably plasma. Even then there are better ways to get them up the board. Now, if Primaris marines could take a pod, you could drop in a unit of Hellblasters or Aggressors and that might actually be useful, but even then I'm not sure I could justify the 65 points (although that is certainly better than the 100+ points they were at the start of 8th!).

I'll admit, back in 7th there were whole lists built around every unit arriving by Drop Pod, and they were unfun to play against. The so-called Null Deployment lists, where if you got stuck with first turn you literally lost a turn because there was nothing to shoot at. But at least the models had a purpose and were actually useful, and there were ways to beat a Pod-heavy list. Now, they only have a place in narrative or very casual games.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Pods would be worth it if there was a unit that was worth putting in one. Currently there is no such unit. Vanguard Vets can DS natively, as can Terminators. Assault Centurions come to mind, but they can't ride in a pod anymore. The only thing that comes to mind that can actually ride in a pod is a squad of Veterans (Sternguard or regular Company veterans) with melta or plasma, preferably plasma. Even then there are better ways to get them up the board. Now, if Primaris marines could take a pod, you could drop in a unit of Hellblasters or Aggressors and that might actually be useful, but even then I'm not sure I could justify the 65 points (although that is certainly better than the 100+ points they were at the start of 8th!).

I'll admit, back in 7th there were whole lists built around every unit arriving by Drop Pod, and they were unfun to play against. The so-called Null Deployment lists, where if you got stuck with first turn you literally lost a turn because there was nothing to shoot at. But at least the models had a purpose and were actually useful, and there were ways to beat a Pod-heavy list. Now, they only have a place in narrative or very casual games.

"Then there are better ways to get them up the board"
Like what? Rhinos are useful but their speed is limited and they can be shot and killed. Throw expensive units into a Rhino and the Rhino wont last long.

". . Hellblasters . . ."
Would you rather have 2w, or a 3++?

 Insectum7 wrote:
I'm thinking Pods may be useful again with the prospect of 2 5man Command Squads, w/Storm Shields and Plasma.

Pods do have a very important bonus over other Deep Strike options, in that only the Pod can be Forewarned/Auspex Scanned against. The units inside are un-interceptable.

Amazing what 2 point Storm Shields do.

I would still willingly take a Termite over the Pod due to it actually being a threat after it appears and the 12 dude capacity (get yourself 3×4 dude squads instead or fit in an HQ if you don't have them dropping in for some insane reason), but at least it won't be terrible in that situation.

No other uses for the Pod though, sadly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Pods would be worth it if there was a unit that was worth putting in one. Currently there is no such unit. Vanguard Vets can DS natively, as can Terminators. Assault Centurions come to mind, but they can't ride in a pod anymore. The only thing that comes to mind that can actually ride in a pod is a squad of Veterans (Sternguard or regular Company veterans) with melta or plasma, preferably plasma. Even then there are better ways to get them up the board. Now, if Primaris marines could take a pod, you could drop in a unit of Hellblasters or Aggressors and that might actually be useful, but even then I'm not sure I could justify the 65 points (although that is certainly better than the 100+ points they were at the start of 8th!).

I'll admit, back in 7th there were whole lists built around every unit arriving by Drop Pod, and they were unfun to play against. The so-called Null Deployment lists, where if you got stuck with first turn you literally lost a turn because there was nothing to shoot at. But at least the models had a purpose and were actually useful, and there were ways to beat a Pod-heavy list. Now, they only have a place in narrative or very casual games.

"Then there are better ways to get them up the board"
Like what? Rhinos are useful but their speed is limited and they can be shot and killed. Throw expensive units into a Rhino and the Rhino wont last long.

". . Hellblasters . . ."
Would you rather have 2w, or a 3++?

At the new price point of Storm Shields? The 3++, no questions asked.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
I'm thinking Pods may be useful again with the prospect of 2 5man Command Squads, w/Storm Shields and Plasma.

Pods do have a very important bonus over other Deep Strike options, in that only the Pod can be Forewarned/Auspex Scanned against. The units inside are un-interceptable.

Amazing what 2 point Storm Shields do.

I would still willingly take a Termite over the Pod due to it actually being a threat after it appears and the 12 dude capacity (get yourself 3×4 dude squads instead or fit in an HQ if you don't have them dropping in for some insane reason), but at least it won't be terrible in that situation.

No other uses for the Pod though, sadly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Pods would be worth it if there was a unit that was worth putting in one. Currently there is no such unit. Vanguard Vets can DS natively, as can Terminators. Assault Centurions come to mind, but they can't ride in a pod anymore. The only thing that comes to mind that can actually ride in a pod is a squad of Veterans (Sternguard or regular Company veterans) with melta or plasma, preferably plasma. Even then there are better ways to get them up the board. Now, if Primaris marines could take a pod, you could drop in a unit of Hellblasters or Aggressors and that might actually be useful, but even then I'm not sure I could justify the 65 points (although that is certainly better than the 100+ points they were at the start of 8th!).

I'll admit, back in 7th there were whole lists built around every unit arriving by Drop Pod, and they were unfun to play against. The so-called Null Deployment lists, where if you got stuck with first turn you literally lost a turn because there was nothing to shoot at. But at least the models had a purpose and were actually useful, and there were ways to beat a Pod-heavy list. Now, they only have a place in narrative or very casual games.

"Then there are better ways to get them up the board"
Like what? Rhinos are useful but their speed is limited and they can be shot and killed. Throw expensive units into a Rhino and the Rhino wont last long.

". . Hellblasters . . ."
Would you rather have 2w, or a 3++?

At the new price point of Storm Shields? The 3++, no questions asked.

The 2point. 3++ is bonkers and seems to throw a whole bunch of the internal balance out the window. I've had some old rhino doors that have been waiting years for a conversion opportunity, so I guess that's finally happening.

The termite is dope, but even if I bought the model I'd give it to my Chaos army anyways. Pods are built and painted, so they might make a comeback.

Honestly, Pods would be worth it if they allowed units to disembark ignoring the 9" disembark penalty. Melta can now get in double tap range. flamers get WAY better with effective delivery methods. Large squads of ASM/VV can actually get stuck in and do damage (instead of having to make 9" charges).

It basically would allow marines to REALLY punish poor screening and board positioning by dropping whats needed where it is needed (which always lined up with my head canon as marines being shock troops). Screens are going to punish these sort of plays, but everything should have a counter.

Coming t2 earliest, more access to ds without, all ds pinpoint accuracy coupled with no melta range(before big part of pod was accuracy delivering melta's) and expensive. Oh and aura's making gunlines optimal

Crimson wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

What units want to be close, but outside 9” and is worth spending the points on a pod?

Hellblasters...

If there was an(inexpensive)way to get them up the board I would love it. it really needs to be in the 20ish points range or a piece of wargear.

Pretty good ideas you have here! I personally like the idea as bought wargear. But then again many deep strike stratagems are activated with CPs so I don't understand why shouldn't marines have similar system also.

As a larger concept, it's weird why they removed the scatter, i.e. randomness, from deep strike, but at the same time many other random effects in the system were retained. Scattering of course was something people commonly argued about, and where people blatantly would 'interpret' the scatter direction in their own favour, be it unintended or not.
Meanwhile it's really weird future where pinpoint teleporting and targeting is more accurate than what troops can judge their sprinting distance. Yeah, we are talking about rules and this is 'fluff' aspect, but the rules are full of mechanics based on fluff. This 8th ed 40k in general is really weird combination of archaic carryover rules from earlier editions, fluff considerations and some fresh ideas and streamlining.

Another point about deep strike rules is they have been hard limited to 9" distance from enemy. I don't think there is any real justification why this distance should definitely be limited to outside 9". If drop pods or assault marines could do 6" inches, or drop pods 9" + disembark as far from the vehicle as allowed, leading to essentially around 6" as some of you suggested already.
If these specific unit rules turned out to be too powerful one could adjust the point costs to more appropriate level. Or make every deep strike rule either a stratagem or bought wargear option in general.

You would go a long way towards fixing Terminators of all stripes by letting anything with the Terminator keyword Deep Strike at 6” rather than 9”. Hell if you also let the same units halve all damage rounding up then you might see competitive Terminators for the first time in what, twenty years?

Too many embarrassing incidents when people forgot to hitch their trousers up good and snug, and their bowels dropped to their ankles when they hit.

Drop pods are the only models in my entire collection that I've bought only for gaming purpose since I found them ugly but very powerful rules wise in 7th.

What happened to them? SM of all kinds can deep strike in a thousand ways, they can't carry some units that may benefit from them anymore like wulfen, they can't arrive in flamers or melta ranges. They also cost twice the points (three times the points at index times) than they used to be.

 Blackie wrote:
Drop pods are the only models in my entire collection that I've bought only for gaming purpose since I found them ugly but very powerful rules wise in 7th.

What happened to them? SM of all kinds can deep strike in a thousand ways, they can't carry some units that may benefit from them anymore like wulfen, they can't arrive in flamers or melta ranges. They also cost twice the points (three times the points at index times) than they used to be.

When Flesh Terrors came out in 7th, it was worded that ALL imperial units can use those Drop Pods... I bought 7 right away for my SoB army, and 1 month later they said "NO NO NO" b.c Admech/Skitari broke the game so badly it nerfed it for everyone...... WTF does a SoB player need 7 drop pods for, i'm just happy they all where used and go for 10-20$ each.

 Blackie wrote:
Drop pods are the only models in my entire collection that I've bought only for gaming purpose since I found them ugly but very powerful rules wise in 7th.

What happened to them? SM of all kinds can deep strike in a thousand ways, they can't carry some units that may benefit from them anymore like wulfen, they can't arrive in flamers or melta ranges. They also cost twice the points (three times the points at index times) than they used to be.

I think designers still consider MEQs to be durable unit, and thus consider drop pod'ed Melta Devastators to be 'Moral Hazard' for game balance, while in reality most lists can easily remove 10 MEQs a turn if they so choose, so these 'Drop Pod strikes' are kind of one-hit-wonders, without the wonder.

But in all seriousness, the outside 9" deep strike bubble must be due to the melee, they want to make it difficult but possible to charge after the deep strike. So the range needs to be 9", which then screws over meltaguns and flamers. Very silly considering meltaguns cost premium because of their effectiveness within 6" of target, while many stacked heavy weapons (lascannons, autocannons, similar etc.) get point cost discounts if they are twin- or quad-stacked etc. because they are more 'restrictive'. Comparing the melta point costs with stacked heavy weapons it's not hard to miss the logical dissonance: With melta the intended short range effectiveness is a 'Bonus' that needs to be priced premium, while with stacked heavy weapons the stacking is considered 'Negative' (while inherently being able to stack several weapons instead of just single is definitely a bonus, many units would like to take more weapons but are restricted by arbitrary rules) and therefore needs a price decrease. These point cost 'considerations' are arbitrary and inconsistent with each other, but broadly favor long range shooting over short range invariably.

Well one of the CA play tests on FtN sounded like they dont understand the power level of units... you should listen to it (the one talking about SoB that was last week i think).

He was trying to argue that Tac armies are just as good and viable as Primaris b.c of the options, the main guy cut him off and was like "No, we are no going down this road neither are good" lol or something to that effect, it was a week ago. but i got the impression they really play at a lower tier level when play testing.


With the CA points like you said Ghorgul about Twin weapons, etc.. and that Pod cast, it is VERY clear they over value units with high options compare to dedicated roles.

I know they are a bit expensive in points but what happend to the classic drop pod insertion of space marines? Are they just so out of the meats now that they are not considered at all? Are they any good in friendly games or are they just not worth it at all?

Well. GW dopped the (pod-)ball.

Now after you are done stabbing me for my terrible pun, they are as you said too expensive, the content itself is too expensive 90% of the time, and as Amishprn said, the overvaluation of dropable content leads to a lack of potential targets to pod.

Ergo: it itself is bad and the dropable stuff is also mostly bad, and or does not need a pod.

One of the sad things is that a drop pod assault by Orks on rynn's world was featured on one of the very first miniature box sets for 40k, through bullneck's space ork raiders.

Also you could buy that squad set for less than a lot of single figures cost today. Excuse me, I need to go cry for a while...

You guys should be happy you don't have to take them. At least the cost of having them isn't build in to the cost of all of your models. Would you rather have had 18pts tacticals, just because a drop pod is free or 20-30pts per squad?

Except DS doesn't add up all that much if at all. 1 pts at most

I'd consider 50 point Drop pods for my Primaris Ultramarines if they were an option. Certainly for my Hblasters. Being able to land 10 at 15 inches and use the Scions of Guilliman Stratagem and high power to reduce some hard spots would be worth it.

Maybe sternguard for Black Templars. Maybe.

i think I'd probably give them a crack with my DAs for plasma spam veterans. A veteran with plasmagun and stormshield (or combi-plasma, because why not) used to be 34pts a model, now they are 27pts. Granted, you are maxed at 5 per unit but that's somewhat reasonable.

Well if they could carry dreads or wulfen they could be useful in SW armies now that they are 65 pts.

Drop Pods should be super fragile and cheap. Make them T5 W5 4+ save or something and then they can be 30 points. They can't be cheap right now cause at 30 pts with the current profile you could just dump them empty on top of objectives and make the enemy waste anti tank shots to shoot it down(or run over with 2 models)

 Blackie wrote:
Well if they could carry dreads or wulfen they could be useful in SW armies now that they are 65 pts.

I want Wulfen Dreads in a drop pod (I know there's the Lucius pattern but that thing costs 120 so is only worth it to drop a dual-gun Leviathan within 18" of whatever poor sod it has decided to reduce to scrap and gore).

Anyway, I was thinking that maybe a WG plasma squad + cheap Lord for the rerolls might be nice. Kit 5 out with combi-plasma and plasma pistol, 4 with Stormbolter/SS (to not break the bank and have some ablative wounds) and give your Lord his own combi-plasma (and maybe a solid melee weapon to dissuade would-be chargers). You basically pay 65 (?) points to save 2 CP (you don't have to use the outflank stratagem), the freedom to deploy wherever you want instead of being restricted to table edges and you are guaranteed to arrive safely (albeit in T2) because you want this glasscannon of a unit to arrive intact. Will cost you about 350-400 points but spitting out 17 overcharged plasma shots every turn in almost-safety is not something to be underestimated. You'll get a guaranteed umm... beta-strike? and your opponent will have to divert firepower to them to prevent his precious tanks and monsters from being reduced to ash. Which in turn allows your choppy stuff to get in charge range relatively safely.

cmspano wrote:
Drop Pods should be super fragile and cheap. Make them T5 W5 4+ save or something and then they can be 30 points. They can't be cheap right now cause at 30 pts with the current profile you could just dump them empty on top of objectives and make the enemy waste anti tank shots to shoot it down(or run over with 2 models)

Or just make it so that they can't hold objectives.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
I'm thinking Pods may be useful again with the prospect of 2 5man Command Squads, w/Storm Shields and Plasma.

Pods do have a very important bonus over other Deep Strike options, in that only the Pod can be Forewarned/Auspex Scanned against. The units inside are un-interceptable.

Amazing what 2 point Storm Shields do.

I would still willingly take a Termite over the Pod due to it actually being a threat after it appears and the 12 dude capacity (get yourself 3×4 dude squads instead or fit in an HQ if you don't have them dropping in for some insane reason), but at least it won't be terrible in that situation.

No other uses for the Pod though, sadly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Pods would be worth it if there was a unit that was worth putting in one. Currently there is no such unit. Vanguard Vets can DS natively, as can Terminators. Assault Centurions come to mind, but they can't ride in a pod anymore. The only thing that comes to mind that can actually ride in a pod is a squad of Veterans (Sternguard or regular Company veterans) with melta or plasma, preferably plasma. Even then there are better ways to get them up the board. Now, if Primaris marines could take a pod, you could drop in a unit of Hellblasters or Aggressors and that might actually be useful, but even then I'm not sure I could justify the 65 points (although that is certainly better than the 100+ points they were at the start of 8th!).

I'll admit, back in 7th there were whole lists built around every unit arriving by Drop Pod, and they were unfun to play against. The so-called Null Deployment lists, where if you got stuck with first turn you literally lost a turn because there was nothing to shoot at. But at least the models had a purpose and were actually useful, and there were ways to beat a Pod-heavy list. Now, they only have a place in narrative or very casual games.

"Then there are better ways to get them up the board"
Like what? Rhinos are useful but their speed is limited and they can be shot and killed. Throw expensive units into a Rhino and the Rhino wont last long.

". . Hellblasters . . ."
Would you rather have 2w, or a 3++?

At the new price point of Storm Shields? The 3++, no questions asked.

The 2point. 3++ is bonkers and seems to throw a whole bunch of the internal balance out the window. I've had some old rhino doors that have been waiting years for a conversion opportunity, so I guess that's finally happening.

The termite is dope, but even if I bought the model I'd give it to my Chaos army anyways. Pods are built and painted, so they might make a comeback.

It's especially nuts when you consider that, at that point, the only thing Primaris are more durable to is D1 weapons without any decent AP. I know that, to AP-2 D1 they're the same durability, which means Primaris only win out vs AP-1 in that particular situation.

Well, that two point storm shield thing must be some bizarre accident. It is completely ludicrous.

 Crimson wrote:
Well, that two point storm shield thing must be some bizarre accident. It is completely ludicrous.

Combat shields are now more expensive than stormshields. Honestly if they made them worth 5pts, and decreased the cost of combat shields to 2pts. I think people would be less confused.

That is the most Ludicrous part.

Assault cannons are now more expensive than missile launchers. 2 Lascannons are more expensive than a twin lascannon.

Heavy Plasma Cannons are less expensive than a rocket. (Wait what?)

Relic Blades are now cheaper than two lightning claws...

Tartars are now less expensive with their heavy weapon than a normal terminator squad with a heavy weapon....

Its like someone went through the book started assigning random numbers without any rhyme or reason.

Sternguard are 2pts more expensive than tactical marine.

Its kind of baffling actually how poorly they optimized marine lists.

GW sold enough drop pods in 5th 6th and 7th so it was time for a meta change. honestly i would love thier points to go down or for them to be allowed to ignore the 9 inch rule (with the balance of being unable to assault the turn something landed) being able to drop in turn 1, unload a volly of fire in melta range... that would make them worth the current points, note i am not suggesting turn 1 drop, no min and points drop, rather 1 or the other.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Well, that two point storm shield thing must be some bizarre accident. It is completely ludicrous.

Combat shields are now more expensive than stormshields. Honestly if they made them worth 5pts, and decreased the cost of combat shields to 2pts. I think people would be less confused.

That is the most Ludicrous part.

Assault cannons are now more expensive than missile launchers. 2 Lascannons are more expensive than a twin lascannon.

Heavy Plasma Cannons are less expensive than a rocket. (Wait what?)

Relic Blades are now cheaper than two lightning claws...

Tartars are now less expensive with their heavy weapon than a normal terminator squad with a heavy weapon....

Its like someone went through the book started assigning random numbers without any rhyme or reason.

Sternguard are 2pts more expensive than tactical marine.

Its kind of baffling actually how poorly they optimized marine lists.

Sternguard are actually 3 points more expensive than a Tactical Marine. Minimum weapon cost is 2 points.

Termites FTW

Make them free.

Strat: 1-3 CP buys 1-3 Drop Pods

*Ignore Stormbolter
* Can not be placed within 3" of an objective


fixed

tneva82 wrote:
Except DS doesn't add up all that much if at all. 1 pts at most

1 point to make a model immune to enemy fire, then set up within Rapid-Fire Plasma range? Yeah... no.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blackie wrote:
Drop pods are the only models in my entire collection that I've bought only for gaming purpose since I found them ugly but very powerful rules wise in 7th.

What happened to them? SM of all kinds can deep strike in a thousand ways, they can't carry some units that may benefit from them anymore like wulfen, they can't arrive in flamers or melta ranges. They also cost twice the points (three times the points at index times) than they used to be.

Same, I bought mine for 6th Ed and loaded them with Sternguard and Command Squads, and they were rude AF. Nowadays I think we're back to Sternguard and Command Squads, though the loadout is a bit different.

Well, actually not much different. My Sternguard in 6th were all Combi-Plasma, too.

 Crimson wrote:
Well, that two point storm shield thing must be some bizarre accident. It is completely ludicrous.

It's probably due to the fact that Marines were hit the hardest by the transition to armor save modifiers and GW wanted to give them something to make them more durable without tweaking their statlines. So here we go, 2 pt SS (which, by the way, means nothing if that guard squad in RF range gets FRFSRF and obliterates your precious veterans anyway).

 Insectum7 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Except DS doesn't add up all that much if at all. 1 pts at most

1 point to make a model immune to enemy fire, then set up within Rapid-Fire Plasma range? Yeah... no.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Blackie wrote:
Drop pods are the only models in my entire collection that I've bought only for gaming purpose since I found them ugly but very powerful rules wise in 7th.

What happened to them? SM of all kinds can deep strike in a thousand ways, they can't carry some units that may benefit from them anymore like wulfen, they can't arrive in flamers or melta ranges. They also cost twice the points (three times the points at index times) than they used to be.

Same, I bought mine for 6th Ed and loaded them with Sternguard and Command Squads, and they were rude AF. Nowadays I think we're back to Sternguard and Command Squads, though the loadout is a bit different.

Well, actually not much different. My Sternguard in 6th were all Combi-Plasma, too.

I bought 1 drop pod and haven't used it since, i then took it apart and made it a terrain piece.

Pandabeer wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Well, that two point storm shield thing must be some bizarre accident. It is completely ludicrous.

It's probably due to the fact that Marines were hit the hardest by the transition to armor save modifiers and GW wanted to give them something to make them more durable without tweaking their statlines. So here we go, 2 pt SS (which, by the way, means nothing if that guard squad in RF range gets FRFSRF and obliterates your precious veterans anyway).

Really? Is that what's happening to you? The problem is not the power armor.

Drop Pods uselessness is exacerbated by the simple fact that your opponents giant infantry blobs can charge them, and spread out to control the map. Then, you can't shoot them, and they must be dealt with in melee. Yes you landed with your overpriced drop pod and maybe killed something, but you just made all of your opponents chaff effectively invincible. And it will sit there, until they decide they need a kill point or perhaps want to get Big Game Hunter.

They are horrible, bringing them is honestly a liability more than anything else.

They need new rules.

Allowing the contents to disembark and then move normally before acting would be a huge step in the right direction for them. Yeah, marines would have 3" charges out of pods. So what? The set of units that can actually ride in a pod is limited, and screens exist. Genestealer cults already get deep strike + move, so the game has already embraced the idea of guaranteed charges out of DS.

I would also make them fast attack, like they should be, and 35 points.

 Marmatag wrote:
Drop Pods uselessness is exacerbated by the simple fact that your opponents giant infantry blobs can charge them, and spread out to control the map. Then, you can't shoot them, and they must be dealt with in melee. Yes you landed with your overpriced drop pod and maybe killed something, but you just made all of your opponents chaff effectively invincible.

They are horrible, bringing them is honestly a liability more than anything else.

Guard maybe (depends on soup ingredients), Tyranids, sure. Eldar always seem to have exposure as their squads tend small.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Well, that two point storm shield thing must be some bizarre accident. It is completely ludicrous.

It's probably due to the fact that Marines were hit the hardest by the transition to armor save modifiers and GW wanted to give them something to make them more durable without tweaking their statlines. So here we go, 2 pt SS (which, by the way, means nothing if that guard squad in RF range gets FRFSRF and obliterates your precious veterans anyway).

Really? Is that what's happening to you? The problem is not the power armor.

I think it is the super prevalence of super heavies >.>

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Drop Pods uselessness is exacerbated by the simple fact that your opponents giant infantry blobs can charge them, and spread out to control the map. Then, you can't shoot them, and they must be dealt with in melee. Yes you landed with your overpriced drop pod and maybe killed something, but you just made all of your opponents chaff effectively invincible.

They are horrible, bringing them is honestly a liability more than anything else.

Guard maybe (depends on soup ingredients), Tyranids, sure. Eldar always seem to have exposure as their squads tend small.

Guard of course, people bring more than the loyal 32, and honestly, if you can make those guys invincible you do it. Their job is to block your opponent more than anything else. They might even charge it with a sentinel, their job is to deny area.

Tyranids of course. I would love to charge it with my GS. They can fall back and charge the next turn, so them being invincible to your shooting is always nice.

Genestealer cults of course.

Orks of course.

Anyone with chaff of any kind. A space wolves player with a Cyberwolf could charge the wolf into the pod and create a beautiful 9" denial bubble for 15 points.

Any army that has a model they want to protect from shooting.

Eldar would absolutely laugh at the pod. Thank you for the kill points. As a Dark Eldar player, i would charge that pod with a bunch of venoms and my ravagers. Guess what you can't shoot for a full turn, and guess what can shoot you on my turn? Any unit with FLY may as well charge the pod, in any army, because they can fall back and still shoot. Tau come to mind.

As a space wolves player you might want to charge the pod to pop a saga. Saga of the Beast Slayer i believe would pop from killing a pod.

Any army that can fall-back and still act would benefit from charging a pod.

This is a joke thread, and Drop Pods are gak.

Drop Pods protect from stratagems that allow you to shoot a unit that arrives via deepstrike, so...

 Marmatag wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Drop Pods uselessness is exacerbated by the simple fact that your opponents giant infantry blobs can charge them, and spread out to control the map. Then, you can't shoot them, and they must be dealt with in melee. Yes you landed with your overpriced drop pod and maybe killed something, but you just made all of your opponents chaff effectively invincible.

They are horrible, bringing them is honestly a liability more than anything else.

Guard maybe (depends on soup ingredients), Tyranids, sure. Eldar always seem to have exposure as their squads tend small.

Guard of course, people bring more than the loyal 32, and honestly, if you can make those guys invincible you do it. Their job is to block your opponent more than anything else. They might even charge it with a sentinel, their job is to deny area.

Tyranids of course. I would love to charge it with my GS. They can fall back and charge the next turn, so them being invincible to your shooting is always nice.

Genestealer cults of course.

Orks of course.

Anyone with chaff of any kind. A space wolves player with a Cyberwolf could charge the wolf into the pod and create a beautiful 9" denial bubble for 15 points.

Any army that has a model they want to protect from shooting.

Eldar would absolutely laugh at the pod. Thank you for the kill points. As a Dark Eldar player, i would charge that pod with a bunch of venoms and my ravagers. Guess what you can't shoot for a full turn, and guess what can shoot you on my turn? Any unit with FLY may as well charge the pod, in any army, because they can fall back and still shoot. Tau come to mind.

As a space wolves player you might want to charge the pod to pop a saga. Saga of the Beast Slayer i believe would pop from killing a pod.

Any army that can fall-back and still act would benefit from charging a pod.

This is a joke thread, and Drop Pods are gak.

Yeah. . . m'ok.

I guess two can play at this game. There will be no Ravagers on the table to charge the Pods. There, that was easy.

That's a pretty weak answer to a very real problem. You can try to dismiss it offhand if you want. But it does make you appear clownish.

 Marmatag wrote:
That's a pretty weak answer to a very real problem. You can try to dismiss it offhand if you want. But it does make you appear clownish.

Is that more or less clowninsh than: "My Ravagers will kill 30 Marines a turn."?

Fair enough that models can charge the Pod, it is an issue. But my post was more about the fact that Eldar don't screen as effectively as other armies, at least not that I've seen. While Tyranids, Guard and Orks can cover the board, the nature of the Eldar operation seems to always leave potential space to exploit.

Imo pods can be used in three main ways.
A: Bring in reinforcements into your own line to defend against enemy attack.
B: Exploit a gap in board control to make a new front.
C: Suicide attack.

As long as the matchup against the enemy army allows one of those responses, Pods might have a use. Against Eldar (/Elite armies), option C can be a real threat that the opponent has to defend against, which can sap some offensive output. Against Kraken Nids (for example) I'd expect to be using option A or B, rather than C. Against Eldar, in the past I've been able to use B and C. The points might be there to make it viable again.

As for "3 inch Marine charges", I have an army full of Aspect Warriors who would be terrified of that. The Scorpions and Banshees might hold their own point-for-point if you don't shoot first. None of the other Aspects would have a fighting chance.

Bharring wrote:
As for "3 inch Marine charges", I have an army full of Aspect Warriors who would be terrified of that. The Scorpions and Banshees might hold their own point-for-point if you don't shoot first. None of the other Aspects would have a fighting chance.

Yeah I think we have to assume 3" charges are a no-go. Look for board control advantages and threat overload rather than "guaranteed insta-kill". Half the value of the Veterans with Storm Shields is the idea of soaking return fire and drawing it away from the rest of the army. Drop them in cover for a 2+, 3++ and they're going to take serious effort to git rid of. If that effort is spent against Veterans instead of Devastators/whatever, there's a good potential return value.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Bharring wrote:
As for "3 inch Marine charges", I have an army full of Aspect Warriors who would be terrified of that. The Scorpions and Banshees might hold their own point-for-point if you don't shoot first. None of the other Aspects would have a fighting chance.

Yeah I think we have to assume 3" charges are a no-go. Look for board control advantages and threat overload rather than "guaranteed insta-kill". Half the value of the Veterans with Storm Shields is the idea of soaking return fire and drawing it away from the rest of the army. Drop them in cover for a 2+, 3++ and they're going to take serious effort to git rid of. If that effort is spent against Veterans instead of Devastators/whatever, there's a good potential return value.

Potentially but i don't think people will ignore devastators if they are the closer target. Devastators are a glass cannon unit and should remain so. Dropping them in a drop pod is probably the dumbest move i've ever seen happen and i've seen it happen. Drop pod landed next to a squad of guardians. bye bye devastators.

If anything it should allow units to move and shoot, and allow other units (Such as vanguard) to charge that turn. (OP yes but they would be the only unit in the game to do so and would be their old ability they used to have which allowed them to do just that).

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Pods would be worth it if there was a unit that was worth putting in one. Currently there is no such unit. Vanguard Vets can DS natively, as can Terminators. Assault Centurions come to mind, but they can't ride in a pod anymore. The only thing that comes to mind that can actually ride in a pod is a squad of Veterans (Sternguard or regular Company veterans) with melta or plasma, preferably plasma. Even then there are better ways to get them up the board. Now, if Primaris marines could take a pod, you could drop in a unit of Hellblasters or Aggressors and that might actually be useful, but even then I'm not sure I could justify the 65 points (although that is certainly better than the 100+ points they were at the start of 8th!).

I'll admit, back in 7th there were whole lists built around every unit arriving by Drop Pod, and they were unfun to play against. The so-called Null Deployment lists, where if you got stuck with first turn you literally lost a turn because there was nothing to shoot at. But at least the models had a purpose and were actually useful, and there were ways to beat a Pod-heavy list. Now, they only have a place in narrative or very casual games.

My tau ate drop pod lists like they were cereal back in 7th. If I went first, I /alwsys/ shot first.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Bharring wrote:
As for "3 inch Marine charges", I have an army full of Aspect Warriors who would be terrified of that. The Scorpions and Banshees might hold their own point-for-point if you don't shoot first. None of the other Aspects would have a fighting chance.

Yeah I think we have to assume 3" charges are a no-go. Look for board control advantages and threat overload rather than "guaranteed insta-kill". Half the value of the Veterans with Storm Shields is the idea of soaking return fire and drawing it away from the rest of the army. Drop them in cover for a 2+, 3++ and they're going to take serious effort to git rid of. If that effort is spent against Veterans instead of Devastators/whatever, there's a good potential return value.

Potentially but i don't think people will ignore devastators if they are the closer target. Devastators are a glass cannon unit and should remain so. Dropping them in a drop pod is probably the dumbest move i've ever seen happen and i've seen it happen. Drop pod landed next to a squad of guardians. bye bye devastators.

If anything it should allow units to move and shoot, and allow other units (Such as vanguard) to charge that turn. (OP yes but they would be the only unit in the game to do so and would be their old ability they used to have which allowed them to do just that).

Scenario I suggested was Devastators in backfield, Veterans with 3++ and Plasma Dropping up front.

I don't know what opponent drops Devastators next to Guardians, but sure, I wouldn't recommend that. I've definitely gotten value out of dropped Devastators though. You don't have to drop them near anything though, depending on your guns.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

Bharring wrote:
As for "3 inch Marine charges", I have an army full of Aspect Warriors who would be terrified of that. The Scorpions and Banshees might hold their own point-for-point if you don't shoot first. None of the other Aspects would have a fighting chance.

Yeah I think we have to assume 3" charges are a no-go. Look for board control advantages and threat overload rather than "guaranteed insta-kill". Half the value of the Veterans with Storm Shields is the idea of soaking return fire and drawing it away from the rest of the army. Drop them in cover for a 2+, 3++ and they're going to take serious effort to git rid of. If that effort is spent against Veterans instead of Devastators/whatever, there's a good potential return value.

Potentially but i don't think people will ignore devastators if they are the closer target. Devastators are a glass cannon unit and should remain so. Dropping them in a drop pod is probably the dumbest move i've ever seen happen and i've seen it happen. Drop pod landed next to a squad of guardians. bye bye devastators.

If anything it should allow units to move and shoot, and allow other units (Such as vanguard) to charge that turn. (OP yes but they would be the only unit in the game to do so and would be their old ability they used to have which allowed them to do just that).

Scenario I suggested was Devastators in backfield, Veterans with 3++ and Plasma Dropping up front.

I don't know what opponent drops Devastators next to Guardians, but sure, I wouldn't recommend that. I've definitely gotten value out of dropped Devastators though. You don't have to drop them near anything though, depending on your guns.

Still the dumbest game i've ever played. "Oh space marines are so good!" *plops his whole army within range of my guardians*

*internal confusion*

Veterans with 3++ would be great. but they need at least +1 wound. Great choice though if only we could take a primaris unit with Bobby g that had stormshields and could deploy from drop pods :(

 Asherian Command wrote:
. . .if only we could take a primaris unit with Bobby g that had stormshields and could deploy from drop pods :(

It's probably good that you can't.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
. . .if only we could take a primaris unit with Bobby g that had stormshields and could deploy from drop pods :(

It's probably good that you can't.

I mean we have Vitrix guard now with stormshields and power weapons. But whether they are good or not is up for debate.

PRIMARIS as a restrictive keyword makes no sense at this point.

I would say flatten the whole thing out and just treat PRIMARIS in the same way TERMINATOR models are treated.

Your average marine of any kind can pay +4 points per model to become a primaris.

Primaris Veterans,
Primaris TAC marines,
Primaris devastator marines,

etc.

People instantly start buying primaris for conversions as well.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
. . .if only we could take a primaris unit with Bobby g that had stormshields and could deploy from drop pods :(

It's probably good that you can't.

I mean we have Vitrix guard now with stormshields and power weapons. But whether they are good or not is up for debate.

Eh I like them sorta, but not as Ultramarines.

JohnnyHell wrote:Termites FTW

Hell yeah....as soon as they're $37. I have no problem paying extra for the FW tax, but I think they could make a very similar drill in plastic for 1/2 the price(not points just pure $).

I'm still looking to pick up a couple pods just for modeling/display. cant wait for the new forgeworld dreadpod & the eventual primaris pod.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
. . .if only we could take a primaris unit with Bobby g that had stormshields and could deploy from drop pods :(

It's probably good that you can't.

I mean we have Vitrix guard now with stormshields and power weapons. But whether they are good or not is up for debate.

Eh I like them sorta, but not as Ultramarines.

I want primaris thunder hammers and those shields.

 Crimson wrote:
Well, that two point storm shield thing must be some bizarre accident. It is completely ludicrous.

I think a combat shield is an add on though, right? So a Sgt could take a ranged weapon, melee weapon and then add a combat shield. That is pretty useful, especially if rest of sad have the SS

 bullyboy wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Well, that two point storm shield thing must be some bizarre accident. It is completely ludicrous.

I think a combat shield is an add on though, right? So a Sgt could take a ranged weapon, melee weapon and then add a combat shield. That is pretty useful, especially if rest of sad have the SS

so I have to pay more to have a worse invulnerable save? Having a stormshield is more valuable because ++3

Pandabeer wrote:


Anyway, I was thinking that maybe a WG plasma squad + cheap Lord for the rerolls might be nice. Kit 5 out with combi-plasma and plasma pistol, 4 with Stormbolter/SS (to not break the bank and have some ablative wounds) and give your Lord his own combi-plasma (and maybe a solid melee weapon to dissuade would-be chargers). You basically pay 65 (?) points to save 2 CP (you don't have to use the outflank stratagem), the freedom to deploy wherever you want instead of being restricted to table edges and you are guaranteed to arrive safely (albeit in T2) because you want this glasscannon of a unit to arrive intact. Will cost you about 350-400 points but spitting out 17 overcharged plasma shots every turn in almost-safety is not something to be underestimated. You'll get a guaranteed umm... beta-strike? and your opponent will have to divert firepower to them to prevent his precious tanks and monsters from being reduced to ash. Which in turn allows your choppy stuff to get in charge range relatively safely.

Both wolf lords and WG can take jump packs though which give them free deep strike. Not only that also better movement and the FLY keyword. Those 10 jump packs also cost less than a drop pod.

At the moment only Grey hunters and blood claws may benefit from a pod since everything else cannot ride in it, have free access to deepstrike or doesn't need to leave their spot (long fangs). But why would you put troops in a pod? If you want the plasma combo, and don't have access to WG, you could bring 10 grey hunters with two plasma guns, one combi plasma and 2 plasma pistols in a pod with a jump packs lord that deep strikes near them eventually. I think it's the only use SW can think of a drop pod at the moment.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Drop Pods uselessness is exacerbated by the simple fact that your opponents giant infantry blobs can charge them, and spread out to control the map. Then, you can't shoot them, and they must be dealt with in melee. Yes you landed with your overpriced drop pod and maybe killed something, but you just made all of your opponents chaff effectively invincible.

They are horrible, bringing them is honestly a liability more than anything else.

Guard maybe (depends on soup ingredients), Tyranids, sure. Eldar always seem to have exposure as their squads tend small.

This is the best argument against drop pods from a purely tactical standpoint, and not just their outrageous points cost. Every faction has access to hordes of chaff, except maybe necrons.

Imperium -> guardsmen
Chaos -> cultists
Eldar -> Guardians(8ppm, 10-20) and Warriors(6 ppm 5-15or20 don't remember), Kind of Wyches but Wyches are a little too expensive and fragile to put a 20 man mob on the table and sit there.
Nids -> Gaunts, the cheap GSC unit, don't know the name.
Tau -> Fire Warriors. Same Price as a boy. Roughly equal in survivability(T3 4+ is close to T4 5++, and definitely is if no KFF)
Orks -> Grots, Boyz if the grots die, but Boyz are better spent killing. Plus Boyz will wipe the pod
Necrons -> Warriors? Scarabs? I know very little about necron profiles and points.

cmspano wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Drop Pods uselessness is exacerbated by the simple fact that your opponents giant infantry blobs can charge them, and spread out to control the map. Then, you can't shoot them, and they must be dealt with in melee. Yes you landed with your overpriced drop pod and maybe killed something, but you just made all of your opponents chaff effectively invincible.

They are horrible, bringing them is honestly a liability more than anything else.

Guard maybe (depends on soup ingredients), Tyranids, sure. Eldar always seem to have exposure as their squads tend small.

This is the best argument against drop pods from a purely tactical standpoint, and not just their outrageous points cost. Every faction has access to hordes of chaff, except maybe necrons.

Imperium -> guardsmen
Chaos -> cultists
Eldar -> Guardians(8ppm, 10-20) and Warriors(6 ppm 5-15or20 don't remember), Kind of Wyches but Wyches are a little too expensive and fragile to put a 20 man mob on the table and sit there.
Nids -> Gaunts, the cheap GSC unit, don't know the name.
Tau -> Fire Warriors. Same Price as a boy. Roughly equal in survivability(T3 4+ is close to T4 5++, and definitely is if no KFF)
Orks -> Grots, Boyz if the grots die, but Boyz are better spent killing. Plus Boyz will wipe the pod
Necrons -> Warriors? Scarabs? I know very little about necron profiles and points.

Only Scarabs would do that. 39 points for 3 bases with 9 wounds total can do okay blocking landing areas.

 Marmatag wrote:
PRIMARIS as a restrictive keyword makes no sense at this point.

I would say flatten the whole thing out and just treat PRIMARIS in the same way TERMINATOR models are treated.

Your average marine of any kind can pay +4 points per model to become a primaris.

Primaris Veterans,
Primaris TAC marines,
Primaris devastator marines,

etc.

People instantly start buying primaris for conversions as well.

I can see GW doing this in the near future


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Racerguy180 wrote:

JohnnyHell wrote:Termites FTW

Hell yeah....as soon as they're $37. I have no problem paying extra for the FW tax, but I think they could make a very similar drill in plastic for 1/2 the price(not points just pure $).

I'm still looking to pick up a couple pods just for modeling/display. cant wait for the new forgeworld dreadpod & the eventual primaris pod.

Anybody looking for Termites but think FW is too pricy, check out:

http://www.manticgames.com/mantic-shop/warpath/veer-myn/product/tunneller.html

$30-40 US, easy as hell to assemble (they don't even give you instructions), scaled for 28mm, and already cut off of the sprues.

 Blackie wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:


Anyway, I was thinking that maybe a WG plasma squad + cheap Lord for the rerolls might be nice. Kit 5 out with combi-plasma and plasma pistol, 4 with Stormbolter/SS (to not break the bank and have some ablative wounds) and give your Lord his own combi-plasma (and maybe a solid melee weapon to dissuade would-be chargers). You basically pay 65 (?) points to save 2 CP (you don't have to use the outflank stratagem), the freedom to deploy wherever you want instead of being restricted to table edges and you are guaranteed to arrive safely (albeit in T2) because you want this glasscannon of a unit to arrive intact. Will cost you about 350-400 points but spitting out 17 overcharged plasma shots every turn in almost-safety is not something to be underestimated. You'll get a guaranteed umm... beta-strike? and your opponent will have to divert firepower to them to prevent his precious tanks and monsters from being reduced to ash. Which in turn allows your choppy stuff to get in charge range relatively safely.

Both wolf lords and WG can take jump packs though which give them free deep strike. Not only that also better movement and the FLY keyword. Those 10 jump packs also cost less than a drop pod.

At the moment only Grey hunters and blood claws may benefit from a pod since everything else cannot ride in it, have free access to deepstrike or doesn't need to leave their spot (long fangs). But why would you put troops in a pod? If you want the plasma combo, and don't have access to WG, you could bring 10 grey hunters with two plasma guns, one combi plasma and 2 plasma pistols in a pod with a jump packs lord that deep strikes near them eventually. I think it's the only use SW can think of a drop pod at the moment.

Hmm, you are correct, didn't think of that. That does indeed make pods exceedingly useless for SW Now if they could just disembark 3" as normal so they could get within 6" of enemy models... that would instantly fix a lot of Marine melee woes and give pods a good niche. Toss 9 WG with Wolf Claw + SS + Battle Leader with TH/SS, Wulfenstone and Saga of the Savage inside and let the shredding begin.

Marine plasma is lacking in a lot of ways. And 10 man squads are a really, really bad idea. Ablative wounds sound nice until you remember that morale exists, and marines with a sergeant are only leadership 8. Marines are the only army that really suffers from morale, and seriously, if you bring 10 man squads you will suffer morale losses.

And paying over 200 points for a pitiful number of plasma shots out of a pod is a bad idea. Just bring a leman russ tank commander and shoot out 2d6+4d3 plasma shots with bs3+ on a T8 platform, from range. You'll save points and get more miles out of it. Also it's 1 HQ of your mandatory Guard portion of your list.

 Marmatag wrote:
Marine plasma is lacking in a lot of ways. And 10 man squads are a really, really bad idea. Ablative wounds sound nice until you remember that morale exists, and marines with a sergeant are only leadership 8. Marines are the only army that really suffers from morale, and seriously, if you bring 10 man squads you will suffer morale losses.

And paying over 200 points for a pitiful number of plasma shots out of a pod is a bad idea. Just bring a leman russ tank commander and shoot out 2d6+4d3 plasma shots with bs3+ on a T8 platform, from range. You'll save points and get more miles out of it. Also it's 1 HQ of your mandatory Guard portion of your list.

Yeah a far cry where marines where one of the few armies that could take special weapons that matter a lot more cause of their high leadership and higher range capabilities now they erm die?

So what if...
No rules changes to deep strike
Drop pods are free
Can only be used in a game if they are set up off board with a unit in them during deployment (so no using empty drop pods).

In effect they would become for players:-
Free tactical flexibility which would be great for some missions.

And for GW:-
Lots of sales.

Can't see how it would be overpowering, but I could be wrong?

The idea is based on Epic where Space Marine armies can choose to take Rhino transports or drop pods before a battle. Makes them quite flexible and can alter tactics depending on who they are facing.

The_Real_Chris wrote:
So what if...
No rules changes to deep strike
Drop pods are free
Can only be used in a game if they are set up off board with a unit in them during deployment (so no using empty drop pods).

In effect they would become for players:-
Free tactical flexibility which would be great for some missions.

And for GW:-
Lots of sales.

Can't see how it would be overpowering, but I could be wrong?

Ok, so three drop pods with servitors would be 20 pts. each. And since GW hasnt clarified what the same datasheet actually means i could use 3x3 of them. Thats 180 pts. for blocking movement of enemy units, for holding objectives, for linebreaker, etc.

 Marmatag wrote:
Marine plasma is lacking in a lot of ways. And 10 man squads are a really, really bad idea. Ablative wounds sound nice until you remember that morale exists, and marines with a sergeant are only leadership 8. Marines are the only army that really suffers from morale, and seriously, if you bring 10 man squads you will suffer morale losses.

And paying over 200 points for a pitiful number of plasma shots out of a pod is a bad idea. Just bring a leman russ tank commander and shoot out 2d6+4d3 plasma shots with bs3+ on a T8 platform, from range. You'll save points and get more miles out of it. Also it's 1 HQ of your mandatory Guard portion of your list.

Plasma Cannons are 1D3, and sponsons don't get to fire twice. 2D6+2D3, averaging 11 Plasma rather than 15. Don't know how many points that is.

Command Squad with Plasma gets 10 Plasma shots in Rapid-fire Range at 125 points. Devastator Squad with Cherub averages 10 shots as well. Comparable offensive capability to the Leman Russ. Heck, two 5-man Tactical Squads get you 8 Plasma shots in Rapid-Fire range. Mitigate morale by taking the Relic Banner or 5-man squads.

"paying over 200 points for a pitiful number of plasma shots out of a pod is a bad idea." 2 Command Squads will get you 20 Plasma shots out of a single pod. I'm not sure if it's worth it, but it's on my radar.

What if: jump packs lose the deep strike rule as well as terminators. Drop pods can carry one dread and infantries of any kinds. Now they would have a role.

Add some equipment and rules that make a Drop Pod worth its cost.

DP must deep strike more than 9 away, but not the disembatking models

Models disembarked cannot assault but can fire or advance

DP have at 0 cost a deep strike Beacon that allow deep striking units to land within 6’ from enemy unit if within 6 from theBeacon itself.

GW didnt realize that many units have the ability to deepstrike. Either via stratagem, JP, grav chutes, or its built in, like terminators. Drop pods have become (almost) obsolete. There is very little use for them. The price should be 30-40. If the price drop continues the same way like it has in the past they will become an option in 2 years

Martel732 wrote:
Maybe sternguard for Black Templars. Maybe.

Why BT? It's not as though Sternguard are dangerous in melee.

You can still tie stuff up and have a sarge swing a relic blade 3 times. Sternguard can beat chaff to death certainly.

I think just letting disembarking models disembark normally would fix them. Drop the pod at 9" disembark 3, you're now in melta range, rapid fire range, and a good charge range.

I like this.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Well one of the CA play tests on FtN sounded like they dont understand the power level of units... you should listen to it (the one talking about SoB that was last week i think).

He was trying to argue that Tac armies are just as good and viable as Primaris b.c of the options, the main guy cut him off and was like "No, we are no going down this road neither are good" lol or something to that effect, it was a week ago. but i got the impression they really play at a lower tier level when play testing.


With the CA points like you said Ghorgul about Twin weapons, etc.. and that Pod cast, it is VERY clear they over value units with high options compare to dedicated roles.

A lot of playtesters use only ITC ruleset (and a few use nova) which also changes the balance. For example under the new ITC rules, custodes bikers are pretty awful. They can’t shoot or charge most infantry units due to ITC terrain rules. But in most games they’re fricken amazing

Bring in a proper "Deathwind" pod and a proper "support pod" ala V1 Epic and then pods are useful, otherwise let them drop T1 - even if in your deployment or no mans land only - gives them something nothing else can do.

drop a deathwind or two, which open and fire immediately they touch down, able to create a clear zone for a troop carrier to drop into.

add a support pop or two with some sort of seriously heavy weapon (IIRC Epic V1 had a plasma cannon, same as a titan carried, though lower rate of fire)

 Blackie wrote:
What if: jump packs lose the deep strike rule as well as terminators. Drop pods can carry one dread and infantries of any kinds. Now they would have a role.

How about we don't nerf GK more, just so other marines can use one unit more.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Maybe sternguard for Black Templars. Maybe.

Why BT? It's not as though Sternguard are dangerous in melee.

You could always make Lias count as Black Templars CT so that they can just natively reroll charges anyway, and Lias takes care of the mobility thing.

It's legal, though very...odd, rather than flat out bad.

stratigo wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Well one of the CA play tests on FtN sounded like they dont understand the power level of units... you should listen to it (the one talking about SoB that was last week i think).

He was trying to argue that Tac armies are just as good and viable as Primaris b.c of the options, the main guy cut him off and was like "No, we are no going down this road neither are good" lol or something to that effect, it was a week ago. but i got the impression they really play at a lower tier level when play testing.


With the CA points like you said Ghorgul about Twin weapons, etc.. and that Pod cast, it is VERY clear they over value units with high options compare to dedicated roles.

A lot of playtesters use only ITC ruleset (and a few use nova) which also changes the balance. For example under the new ITC rules, custodes bikers are pretty awful. They can’t shoot or charge most infantry units due to ITC terrain rules. But in most games they’re fricken amazing

What's special about ITC terrain rules?

Martel732 wrote:

stratigo wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Well one of the CA play tests on FtN sounded like they dont understand the power level of units... you should listen to it (the one talking about SoB that was last week i think).

He was trying to argue that Tac armies are just as good and viable as Primaris b.c of the options, the main guy cut him off and was like "No, we are no going down this road neither are good" lol or something to that effect, it was a week ago. but i got the impression they really play at a lower tier level when play testing.


With the CA points like you said Ghorgul about Twin weapons, etc.. and that Pod cast, it is VERY clear they over value units with high options compare to dedicated roles.

A lot of playtesters use only ITC ruleset (and a few use nova) which also changes the balance. For example under the new ITC rules, custodes bikers are pretty awful. They can’t shoot or charge most infantry units due to ITC terrain rules. But in most games they’re fricken amazing

What's special about ITC terrain rules?

From what i hear, No they didnt have ITC terrain in mind.

ITC rules for terrain are completely different, 100% different. You should just watch the update video for it. I did a fast google search, i watched only 2-3min but it seems like he is going over it well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBScGToqIR4

 p5freak wrote:
GW didnt realize that many units have the ability to deepstrike. Either via stratagem, JP, grav chutes, or its built in, like terminators. Drop pods have become (almost) obsolete. There is very little use for them.

The major thing for Marines is that it's hard to Deep Strike with good firepower. Terminators can Deep Strike, sure, but they themselves are expensive, and their ranged weapon options are not particularly hard-hitting. Getting Thunder Hammer charges off is a nice idea, but it's far from guaranteed. A Drop Pod allows you to deliver a huge array of ranged weapon options within optimal range of the target, plus the troops disembarking cannot be intercepted. Pods are a guaranteed alpha strike capability for some of the best weapons in the armory.

Slanesh termintors are ok. But combi plasma and shoting twice is a very powerful combination when you drop in to <12" ranger.

Insectum7 768461 wrote: The major thing for Marines is that it's hard to Deep Strike with good firepower. Terminators can Deep Strike, sure, but they themselves are expensive, and their ranged weapon options are not particularly hard-hitting. Getting Thunder Hammer charges off is a nice idea, but it's far from guaranteed. A Drop Pod allows you to deliver a huge array of ranged weapon options within optimal range of the target, plus the troops disembarking cannot be intercepted. Pods are a guaranteed alpha strike capability for some of the best weapons in the armory.

BA company vets with plasma guns and chainswords and a smash captn don't need drop pods. Add one or two SS for better survivability.

"Mistakes were made" would be the classic, realistic reply to how accurate and frequent Deep Strike has been made.

Deep Strike should be a little bit more unreliable, to make it a sort of gamble. Not as bad as previous editions, but perhaps something like, place the initial model, roll D6", the opponent chooses the direction of the scatter, but it can't be into impassible terrain or on top of units. After the scatter is resolved, place the remaining models in coherency to the first. No model can be closer to enemy units than the first model placed.

Further, it would really be nice if GW made it so that folks reach for "high mobility" answers in the following order, by points, rules or other methods - with each having their own advantages and disadvantages:

Fast Attack > Transport > Drop Pod > Deep Strike.

Fast Attack: Good a grabbing objectives and harrassing enemy; poor at holding objectives or taking return fire

Transport: Fast, but can't hold objectives and can only provide light support

Drop Pod: Arrive where you want, but can't move afterwards

Deep Strike: Where you want (as long as there's a clear spot), but small units and slightly inaccurate

Like everything else, they could give an army *very* limited exclusions to that order - for example, give GK a method to more accurately drop in Deep Striking terminators, perhaps at the cost to Fast Attack units (essentially, the Termi's replace a Fast Attack slot to Deep Strike).

 Insectum7 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
GW didnt realize that many units have the ability to deepstrike. Either via stratagem, JP, grav chutes, or its built in, like terminators. Drop pods have become (almost) obsolete. There is very little use for them.

The major thing for Marines is that it's hard to Deep Strike with good firepower. Terminators can Deep Strike, sure, but they themselves are expensive, and their ranged weapon options are not particularly hard-hitting. Getting Thunder Hammer charges off is a nice idea, but it's far from guaranteed. A Drop Pod allows you to deliver a huge array of ranged weapon options within optimal range of the target, plus the troops disembarking cannot be intercepted. Pods are a guaranteed alpha strike capability for some of the best weapons in the armory.

Shooty termies are expensive but close combat oriente ones are certainly not. 5 Wolf Guard termies with 3 hammers & shields and 2 stormbolters & power fists are only 191 points. For the same amount of points you can get 5-6 meganobz which are considered a good unit.

They just need the good synergies though as the WG termies hit on 3s with hammers and fists pretty much everytime thanks to the faction trait, they can get up to +2 more attacks with proper auras and have a lot of characters, that you may want anyway, that give them re-rolls in both to hit and to wound rolls.

Shooty ones? Too expensive. SM have other shooty units that are more efficient points wise and bringing a units with both shooty and melee upgrades in insanely priced for 2W T4 models.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

stratigo wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Well one of the CA play tests on FtN sounded like they dont understand the power level of units... you should listen to it (the one talking about SoB that was last week i think).

He was trying to argue that Tac armies are just as good and viable as Primaris b.c of the options, the main guy cut him off and was like "No, we are no going down this road neither are good" lol or something to that effect, it was a week ago. but i got the impression they really play at a lower tier level when play testing.


With the CA points like you said Ghorgul about Twin weapons, etc.. and that Pod cast, it is VERY clear they over value units with high options compare to dedicated roles.

A lot of playtesters use only ITC ruleset (and a few use nova) which also changes the balance. For example under the new ITC rules, custodes bikers are pretty awful. They can’t shoot or charge most infantry units due to ITC terrain rules. But in most games they’re fricken amazing

What's special about ITC terrain rules?

From what i hear, No they didnt have ITC terrain in mind.

ITC rules for terrain are completely different, 100% different. You should just watch the update video for it. I did a fast google search, i watched only 2-3min but it seems like he is going over it well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBScGToqIR4

That's different, but not 100% different.

When it comes to their secondary score system, terrain system, it makes for a different game.

Players are making lists to deny points and you almost never care for the actual mission but secondaries.

That is completely different from GW's missions, there are lists that can win with GW and cant with ITC.

There are more points at stake with primary missions. You can't ignore them.

Yes, you might be able to deny a couple secondary points.

GW's missions are still too trivial for my taste. The new CA missions are okay, but still not very engaging to me. Also, shooting through windows and such is silly.

I will say that I don't like the concept of an "enclosed ruins".