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BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/13 18:14:00


Post by: Miguelsan


Not that I'm totally happy that Catalyst is going the KS route but if it works for Mantic and Reaper maybe it's the way to bring more product instead of waiting and waiting between box releases, with the added advantage that maybe they will get enough cash from the campaign to release another set of the basic game.

Battletech-clan-invasion-kickstarter
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/450703636/battletech-clan-invasion

I hate the Clans with a pasion, but I'm going in deep for the IS missing mechs like the Warhammer and the Marauder.

M.



BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/13 18:25:58


Post by: Gitzbitah


An all plastic, totally usable Battletech kickstarter...

Catalyst, this is the right move. I am so excited to give you heaps of my money.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/13 18:36:49


Post by: Elbows


Knowing Catalyst...if you like Battletech, you'd more or less have to get in on this. It'll be out of stock for 18 months following release or some silly nonsense.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/13 19:14:09


Post by: Chillreaper


Arghhh! Arghhh!

Money! Have it! All of it!

Didn't see this coming, it's a good move. CGL aren't exactly a huge company, it's not as if companies of a comparable size aren't doing this all of the time. I think that CGL's problem has been not getting their predictions on print runs dialed in correctly - starter boxes end up rarer than hen's teeth, whilst the Alpha Strike lance packs were sat languishing on shelves. Kickstarter should let them get it right without the financial risk.

I managed to get what I reckon must have been the last GoAC box from the first print run in the UK and I think that it's the best thing to ever happen to Battletech. More please!


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/13 19:26:34


Post by: Ghaz


Anthony Scroggins (aka Shimmering Sword) has been working on the Clan 'mechs and the miniatures and has been posting sneak peeks on his Patreon for supporters (and no, I'm not a supporter so I haven't seen them). Now we know what they're for.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/13 19:31:05


Post by: Sterling191


 Ghaz wrote:
Anthony Scroggins (aka Shimmering Sword) has been working on the Clan 'mechs and the miniatures and has been posting sneak peeks on his Patreon for supporters (and no, I'm not a supporter so I haven't seen them). Now we know what they're for.


His work is bloody fantastic. Bringing him in to help on some of the sculpts was a brilliant move.

Now if you'll excuse me, im going to be sitting here making grabby hands at that Archer and Thor for the next month.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/13 19:34:23


Post by: Ghaz


Sterling191 wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
Anthony Scroggins (aka Shimmering Sword) has been working on the Clan 'mechs and the miniatures and has been posting sneak peeks on his Patreon for supporters (and no, I'm not a supporter so I haven't seen them). Now we know what they're for.


His work is bloody fantastic. Bringing him in to help on some of the sculpts was a brilliant move.

Now if you'll excuse me, im going to be sitting here making grabby hands at that Archer and Thor for the next month.

They didn't just bring him in "... to help on some of the sculpts...". He's the BattleTech Art Director.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/13 19:34:34


Post by: Miguelsan


And the Marauder! And even better now that HG is not playing silly tricks, Stinger and Wasp!

M.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/13 19:41:19


Post by: Siygess


 Miguelsan wrote:
Not that I'm totally happy that Catalyst is going the KS route but if it works for Mantic and Reaper maybe it's the way to bring more product instead of waiting and waiting between box releases, with the added advantage that maybe they will get enough cash from the campaign to release another set of the basic game.

Battletech-clan-invasion-kickstarter


I hate the Clans with a pasion, but I'm going in deep for the IS missing mechs like the Warhammer and the Marauder.

M.


I'm with you, but you gotta have somebody to fight, right?


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/13 20:11:20


Post by: Mr Morden


Ohh I need that Inner sphere Command Lance


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/14 00:07:34


Post by: Longstrider


Hating the clans is SO 1990. Get with the times, hate on the Wobblies.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/14 00:19:05


Post by: lasgunpacker


I like how it "builds on the [unavailable] boxed sets".

Any idea what the command lance/star boxes will go for?


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/14 00:29:15


Post by: AegisGrimm


 Elbows wrote:
Knowing Catalyst...if you like Battletech, you'd more or less have to get in on this. It'll be out of stock for 18 months following release or some silly nonsense.


My exact thoughts when reading this thread title. Established by lots of history.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/14 01:21:48


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


So I take it its literally impossible for new players to get started, considering both starter boxes don't seem to exist? Where does one even start as the volume of books is incomprehensible?


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/14 01:36:25


Post by: Ghaz


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So I take it its literally impossible for new players to get started, considering both starter boxes don't seem to exist? Where does one even start as the volume of books is incomprehensible?

https://bg.battletech.com/downloads/


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/14 01:47:08


Post by: BrianDavion


keep in mind you don't really need the starter set to play battletech, having the hexmaps is nice but they sell plenty of those. you don't need the minis, you don't need ANY minis (the battletech community isn't very minis focused. and the game doesn't. sreally NEED minis) there are also a number opf free mech creator software out there that makes printing out any mech record sheet you wish a breeze (I've NEVER used offical record sheets)


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/14 02:05:50


Post by: H.B.M.C.


*fingers crossed for a plastic Rifleman*

Very interested in this.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/14 02:28:57


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
*fingers crossed for a plastic Rifleman*

Very interested in this.



pretty sure BTW the robotech tactics minis are on the same scale if you can track some of those down BTW


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/14 02:36:15


Post by: Ghaz


Shimmering Sword's update is better...

Spoiler:


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/14 03:03:02


Post by: Nostromodamus


Very tempting, especially if you can get the new starters through this.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/14 08:11:15


Post by: Chillreaper


I'm wondering if they're going to put a bunch of stuff in as addons for the KS.

Starter boxes, map packs, Total Warfare etc. This could be an opportunity to get stuff that isn't silly money either due to the eBay tax or postage from the online store.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/14 08:20:56


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Smart thing to do would be to offer the new beginner and starter boxes as 'add ons'.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/14 09:29:28


Post by: balmong7


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So I take it its literally impossible for new players to get started, considering both starter boxes don't seem to exist? Where does one even start as the volume of books is incomprehensible?


the Beginner Box that just comes with two mechs and the quickstart rules and a playmat is still pretty readily available. And its only like 20 bucks. But if you want to get invested and don't want to buy the metal minis then yes it's hard. I literally just want a copy of the Game of Armored Combat box but it has been out of stock for like 6 months.

I need to convince someone to play the beginner game with me so I know if I need to back this kickstarter or not. I don't know if I like Battletech, or the idea of playing it.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/14 10:09:08


Post by: Justyn


Being Catalyst this will probably take until 3050 to deliver anything but PDFs.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/15 08:47:42


Post by: CaptainScarlet


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Smart thing to do would be to offer the new beginner and starter boxes, as 'add ons' full-stop.


- I've resorted to 3d printing mechs from Thingiverse but having some printed rules and maps - and some minis without layer lines - would be nice, hence the not-too-fancy editing of my fellow Aussie's post



BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/15 19:05:47


Post by: Mattlov


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So I take it its literally impossible for new players to get started, considering both starter boxes don't seem to exist? Where does one even start as the volume of books is incomprehensible?


Yep. Out of stock. If that's what you mean by having 19 of them available. And that's just this site.

https://www.ariesgamesandminis.com/index.php/shopping/product/2596-battletech-beginner-box-set.html


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/15 21:52:47


Post by: Albertorius


That's nice... Somewhere this side of the pond? The store I preordered it back in January still has not been able to get any.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/15 23:21:39


Post by: BrianDavion


Justyn wrote:
Being Catalyst this will probably take until 3050 to deliver anything but PDFs.


I'm convinced they do that on purpose because people often purchased both


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/15 23:39:37


Post by: totalfailure


I will likely back this to get the Mechs, although I can't let it go without adding my opinion that starting with the Clans, Battletech fiction jumped the shark and became steaming garbage.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 00:13:01


Post by: BrianDavion


 totalfailure wrote:
I will likely back this to get the Mechs, although I can't let it go without adding my opinion that starting with the Clans, Battletech fiction jumped the shark and became steaming garbage.


eht he clans aren't so bad, although they definatly chanegd the feel of the setting. (although I'd argue those changes occured even before the clans with the Warrior trilogy) they seem positively sane compared to some of the ideas Battletech has had since


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 00:20:31


Post by: Ghaz


BrianDavion wrote:
 totalfailure wrote:
I will likely back this to get the Mechs, although I can't let it go without adding my opinion that starting with the Clans, Battletech fiction jumped the shark and became steaming garbage.


eht he clans aren't so bad, although they definatly chanegd the feel of the setting. (although I'd argue those changes occured even before the clans with the Warrior trilogy) they seem positively sane compared to some of the ideas Battletech has had since

I could have done without October 3067 through April 3081...


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 00:58:06


Post by: BrianDavion


 Ghaz wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 totalfailure wrote:
I will likely back this to get the Mechs, although I can't let it go without adding my opinion that starting with the Clans, Battletech fiction jumped the shark and became steaming garbage.


eht he clans aren't so bad, although they definatly chanegd the feel of the setting. (although I'd argue those changes occured even before the clans with the Warrior trilogy) they seem positively sane compared to some of the ideas Battletech has had since

I could have done without October 3067 through April 3081...


yeah well even prior to the Jihad you had some really dumb stuff, like how we where told repeatedly that the small army sizes made sense because most people didn't csre who the ruler of a world was at the end of the day, until suddenly the writers decided to ignore that and go with the whole chaos march etc thing.

And then there's this Ilclan nonsense that's supposed to be coming up.. (who the hell thought it was a good idea to have a faction WIN a wargame?)


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 01:11:03


Post by: Ghaz


I'll reserve any opinions on what the IlClan sourcebook brings until I can actually read it.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 01:29:52


Post by: Nurglitch


So is it still the Battletech from the 90s with 2D6 to hit, etc, or is it the new streamlined version?


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 01:38:10


Post by: Formosa


BrianDavion wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 totalfailure wrote:
I will likely back this to get the Mechs, although I can't let it go without adding my opinion that starting with the Clans, Battletech fiction jumped the shark and became steaming garbage.


eht he clans aren't so bad, although they definatly chanegd the feel of the setting. (although I'd argue those changes occured even before the clans with the Warrior trilogy) they seem positively sane compared to some of the ideas Battletech has had since

I could have done without October 3067 through April 3081...


yeah well even prior to the Jihad you had some really dumb stuff, like how we where told repeatedly that the small army sizes made sense because most people didn't csre who the ruler of a world was at the end of the day, until suddenly the writers decided to ignore that and go with the whole chaos march etc thing.

And then there's this Ilclan nonsense that's supposed to be coming up.. (who the hell thought it was a good idea to have a faction WIN a wargame?)


For all we know we get the ILClan and then the clans LOSE the war and are wiped out, resetting the setting and thus the wargame continues, or The Clans win and take terra and are united and you get the clan invasion mkIIC


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nurglitch wrote:
So is it still the Battletech from the 90s with 2D6 to hit, etc, or is it the new streamlined version?


Mostly the same, this game could really really do with a modern update to reduce the bloat.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 01:39:22


Post by: Platuan4th


Nurglitch wrote:
So is it still the Battletech from the 90s with 2D6 to hit, etc, or is it the new streamlined version?


The Catalyst boxes give you both styles of play.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 01:40:44


Post by: Ghaz


Nurglitch wrote:
So is it still the Battletech from the 90s with 2D6 to hit, etc, or is it the new streamlined version?

You can download the current quick start rules from https://bg.battletech.com/downloads/ , but the updates to the BattleTech rules have mainly been minor changes and refinements. The 'streamlined' version of the rules designed for use with miniatures is 'Alpha Strike'.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 02:17:28


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 totalfailure wrote:
I will likely back this to get the Mechs, although I can't let it go without adding my opinion that starting with the Clans, Battletech fiction jumped the shark and became steaming garbage.
The Clans were introduced to Battletech in 1990. It's been nearly 30 years. They've been part of BattleTech for longer than they haven't been.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 02:22:43


Post by: totalfailure


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 totalfailure wrote:
I will likely back this to get the Mechs, although I can't let it go without adding my opinion that starting with the Clans, Battletech fiction jumped the shark and became steaming garbage.
The Clans were introduced to Battletech in 1990. It's been nearly 30 years. They've been part of BattleTech for longer than they haven't been.


Longevity doesn’t make them any less terrible. Worse, maybe. They were a bad idea that should have been wiped out. As far as I am concerned, Battletech history stopped at the 4th Succession War.

Also, Alpha Strike is not the ‘streamlined’ Battletech you’re looking for....unless you’re looking for a dull as day old dishwater snoozefest that stripped out almost everything and replaced with ‘roll 2d6, that mech is dead...roll 2d6, that mech is dead...’


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 02:32:30


Post by: Nurglitch


 Ghaz wrote:
Nurglitch wrote:
So is it still the Battletech from the 90s with 2D6 to hit, etc, or is it the new streamlined version?

You can download the current quick start rules from https://bg.battletech.com/downloads/ , but the updates to the BattleTech rules have mainly been minor changes and refinements. The 'streamlined' version of the rules designed for use with miniatures is 'Alpha Strike'.

Okay, just had a read-through. Kinda neat how they kept it essentially Battletech.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 02:47:47


Post by: Cannibal


One of my favorite things about Battletech is that while other games have risen and fallen, gone through multiple edition changes, or entirely rebooted, Battletech has stood virtually unchanged since the 90s. It's like a living fossil.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 02:57:07


Post by: DarkTraveler777


 totalfailure wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 totalfailure wrote:
I will likely back this to get the Mechs, although I can't let it go without adding my opinion that starting with the Clans, Battletech fiction jumped the shark and became steaming garbage.
The Clans were introduced to Battletech in 1990. It's been nearly 30 years. They've been part of BattleTech for longer than they haven't been.


Longevity doesn’t make them any less terrible. Worse, maybe. They were a bad idea that should have been wiped out. As far as I am concerned, Battletech history stopped at the 4th Succession War.


Early Battletech fiction sucked too. I can't even stomach reading the old novels because they are annoyingly bad. Stackpole has some fun chapters, like the assassin's bullet one, and the hacking Melissa Steiner's travel itinerary one, but largely that entire novel line is pretty subpar. How many times can a plucky unit be trapped on a planet facing off against a superior hostile force before using cunning, luck and some creative maneuvers to win the day? That is like half of the Battletech novel story lines right there. I am being hyperbolic but really, those novels were pretty generic made worse by the huge paragraphs of boilerplate universe description regurgitated over and over again.

Just avoid the stuff you don't like and play in the era(s) you do. I haven't looked twice at the Jihad stuff, and stick in the 3020's-3060's for most of my games. It works fine.



 totalfailure wrote:
Also, Alpha Strike is not the ‘streamlined’ Battletech you’re looking for....unless you’re looking for a dull as day old dishwater snoozefest that stripped out almost everything and replaced with ‘roll 2d6, that mech is dead...roll 2d6, that mech is dead...’


So, like most contemporary skirmish games then? If I fail my armor save I don't care which organs were punctured by the bullet, I just need to know if Guardsman Joe can return fire. Likewise, if I want to run a Battletech game in under a day with more than 12 units on the table Alphastrike is pretty great at satisfying that desire.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 03:06:27


Post by: totalfailure


 DarkTraveler777 wrote:


So, like most contemporary skirmish games then? If I fail my armor save I don't care which organs were punctured by the bullet, I just need to know if Guardsman Joe can return fire. Likewise, if I want to run a Battletech game in under a day with more than 12 units on the table Alphastrike is pretty great at satisfying that desire.


Exactly the point. It becomes a homogenized, fill in the blank snoozefest, that could be any other game out there. It lost any feel at all of Battletech; you could just as well be shooting space marines or orcs, as opposed to Mechs. The biggest Battletech game I ever played in featured around 60 Mechs. It wasn't over in an hour, to be sure. But it wasn't 30 minutes of empty filler, like Alpha Strike.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 04:06:05


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 totalfailure wrote:
As far as I am concerned, Battletech history stopped at the 4th Succession War.
Ah, ok. So you're one of those players.

Gotcha...


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 04:25:12


Post by: DarkTraveler777


 totalfailure wrote:
 DarkTraveler777 wrote:


So, like most contemporary skirmish games then? If I fail my armor save I don't care which organs were punctured by the bullet, I just need to know if Guardsman Joe can return fire. Likewise, if I want to run a Battletech game in under a day with more than 12 units on the table Alphastrike is pretty great at satisfying that desire.


Exactly the point. It becomes a homogenized, fill in the blank snoozefest, that could be any other game out there.It lost any feel at all of Battletech; you could just as well be shooting space marines or orcs, as opposed to Mechs.


In my experience people more accustomed to contemporary rule sets find the classic version of Battletech to be a snoozefest filled with laborious record keeping. Anything that speeds up the pace of the game and gets more action going is considered a positive. I personally disagree with you that Alphastrike is generic and bland. It is different than classic Battletech but that is the point.

 totalfailure wrote:
The biggest Battletech game I ever played in featured around 60 Mechs. It wasn't over in an hour, to be sure. But it wasn't 30 minutes of empty filler, like Alpha Strike.

Most people don't want to devote 6-8 hours to resolve a company on company engagement.

And what is wrong with a 30 minute game? I mean I love me some Battletech and will happily devote an entire weekend to playing, but I have lost count of how many Saturday afternoon games were called due to time without any proper resolution. Battletech is simply not a fast or streamlined game - certainly that is part of its charm for some, but given Battletech's marginal commercial success since FASA closed it is a niche segment of the gaming population that wants to play a game as dense as Battletech.







BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 05:05:10


Post by: BrianDavion


Battletech in fairness is more about lance on lance engament. this isn't a problem persay but when every battletech novel written since 1991 features regiments clashing.. it does have a poor effect of the advertising not matching the gameplay.
not that battletech is alone i that issue *looks at table top space Marines vs novel space marines as the most obvious example*


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 07:06:28


Post by: Elbows


While I sold off my collection a year or two ago, I actually invented my own rather fun version of Battletech that my buddies and I played. It wasn't the ancient mess of classic Battletech, and it wasn't the overly streamlined Alpha Strike - but sat generally in the center. It took all of the "elements" you had in classic battletech but made them faster, easier, and just as fun.

Battletech went waaaay too far with Alphastrike, in my opinion. They're covering the extreme ends of the spectrum when they could really use a solid, modern, middle-ground product (with options to expand it to near the depth of the classic game, but with more modern mechanics). Watching Battletech is like watching a super slow motion trainwreck...but it never ends.

I like the IP, miss reading the fun novels, etc. But for the longest time they had atrocious models (and no one can come in here and defend their miniatures even the Iron Wind stuff was garbage once we left the 90's). The game was clunky and messy. However, the IP and the idea of the game were soooo well suited to modern tech/etc.

Bigger, sexier, Neoprene Battletech mats? They should have been all over that crazy instantly. Get their hands on a proper plastic miniature producer and have quality modern miniatures with some modular/optional arms..even poseable mechs, etc. The IP is so ripe for someone to take it over and really make it into something modern, new, and exciting. I don't think you'll catch the Warhammer crowd, but it's just a bizarre fossil as someone mentioned above. They finally have good art direction, and their latest mechs have been solid...even if still in a not-ideal material. They're creeping slowly toward a quality line of mechs.

The game itself became a crazy bloatfest of hundred(s?) of random PDFs, a too-far-encompassing story line, waaaaay too many years covered, and thousands upon thousands of mechs - including self-designed mechs. All of that stuff is just too much and dilutes the entire thing. Wish they had really concentrated on quality over quantity. This is keeping them slowly creeping in that direction which is nice.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 13:05:51


Post by: AegisGrimm


If people don't like the super simplicity of Alpha Strike, then Mech Attack by Armor grid games is probably the best happy medium between Battletech and Alpha Strike there is. Definite weapons differences, quick heat resolution, and granular damage tracking (a lot like Crimson Skies where you check off boxes in different shapes depending on weapon type- I never got much into BT to know if the damage tracking is similar there).


I just want some sexy modern models. Battletech mechs on one hand are classic nostalgia, but on the other hand are woefully behind what can be done nowadays. Even CAV from Reaper has better models, even if I don't like the new Bones stuff.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 14:49:15


Post by: Ghaz


A preview of the new Mad Cat...




Our big announcement yesterday put the redesigned Timber Wolf (Mad Cat) front and center. Take a closer look at this iconic ‘Mech in this stunning 360-degree video! Here’s BattleTech Art Director Anthony Scroggins with his Designer’s Notes about how he approached refining the look of a fan favorite:

Anthony Scroggins wrote:I knew redesigning Clan mechs was an eventuality, we’d talked about it internally a lot, and it’s a guarantee that the Timber Wolf would be first up. So, when I was assigned illustrating the cover to Blaine Pardoe’s novel ‘Forever Faithful’, featuring the Timby front and center, I knew I had to give it a serious new look then and there.

That paid off, as just months later we launched the Clan project, dwarfing the previous box project in scale, and from there the Timber Wolf would only need some easy tweaking to cross the finish line.

Over the history of Clans in BattleTech we’ve had plenty of great iterations for this mech, so I didn’t feel compelled to include too many details out of nowhere, it was more a task of picking and choosing among several eras of art. This included TRO illustrations, book covers, various miniatures, videogames (mw4 particularly) and even large scale toys. I wanted a design that satisfied the old, current, and future. It wouldn’t be the best retro, or the best modern, but it would enjoy a classic feeling with modern flairs.

Some of my specific intentions however, were properly showing the canon prime weapons load out (fun fact, this has arguably never been done before), making the torso a little less square, bringing back the old tube arms after an era of boxy ones without them looking flimsy, maintaining the classic slick nose shape, and finally giving it a sturdy overall bulk without killing the nimble look of the old source art.

I don’t think there’s a possible ‘perfect’ look for the Timber Wolf, but I’m glad to have reinvisioned one of the most iconic faces of BattleTech.

https://bg.battletech.com/news/designers-notes-timber-wolf-mad-cat/




BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 17:06:35


Post by: BrianDavion


 Elbows wrote:
While I sold off my collection a year or two ago, I actually invented my own rather fun version of Battletech that my buddies and I played. It wasn't the ancient mess of classic Battletech, and it wasn't the overly streamlined Alpha Strike - but sat generally in the center. It took all of the "elements" you had in classic battletech but made them faster, easier, and just as fun.

Battletech went waaaay too far with Alphastrike, in my opinion. They're covering the extreme ends of the spectrum when they could really use a solid, modern, middle-ground product (with options to expand it to near the depth of the classic game, but with more modern mechanics). Watching Battletech is like watching a super slow motion trainwreck...but it never ends.

I like the IP, miss reading the fun novels, etc. But for the longest time they had atrocious models (and no one can come in here and defend their miniatures even the Iron Wind stuff was garbage once we left the 90's). The game was clunky and messy. However, the IP and the idea of the game were soooo well suited to modern tech/etc.

Bigger, sexier, Neoprene Battletech mats? They should have been all over that crazy instantly. Get their hands on a proper plastic miniature producer and have quality modern miniatures with some modular/optional arms..even poseable mechs, etc. The IP is so ripe for someone to take it over and really make it into something modern, new, and exciting. I don't think you'll catch the Warhammer crowd, but it's just a bizarre fossil as someone mentioned above. They finally have good art direction, and their latest mechs have been solid...even if still in a not-ideal material. They're creeping slowly toward a quality line of mechs.

The game itself became a crazy bloatfest of hundred(s?) of random PDFs, a too-far-encompassing story line, waaaaay too many years covered, and thousands upon thousands of mechs - including self-designed mechs. All of that stuff is just too much and dilutes the entire thing. Wish they had really concentrated on quality over quantity. This is keeping them slowly creeping in that direction which is nice.



90% of those pdfs are mostly background fluff with a handful of optional rules tossed in. which moves to your next bit, the story. Now keep in mind I say this as someone who thought the story moved to fast as one of my primary reasons I no longer follow battletech as passionately. but the fan base largely LIKES the encompassing story. As for the IP mrophing into something "new and exciting" yeah no thanks. wizkids already tried that with MWDA. Battletechs been around for 30+ years a massive change is proably a bad idea. sometimes it's best to know your niche and stick with it. a bird in hand and all that.

Here's something to keep in mind about said Niche... it's not a minis game Minis are for battletech fans a side intreast at best. it's not a major part of the franchise. the game itself and the fluff are what drives it's fanbase.

And all those additional PDFs etc are how the game makes it's money, because they don't rewrite the rules every 3 years or so. you can literally buy a battletech boxed set and never make another purchase and be good. all the fancy wizbang options, are just that. Options. Sit down with someone and say "yeah let's keep to 3025 tech" is seen as a completely legit thing.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 18:02:02


Post by: Elbows


Sure, but that's your opinion - just as valid as mine.

You speak of the Battletech fanbase...well I'm part of that fan base, and I don't like the way Battletech plays, nor the way they promote or sell the IP. I found the handful of PDFs I tried to be lazily written with poor art, etc. I spent a long time creating my own version of Battletech just so I could enjoy the base story and the mechs (though I ended up selling the mechs because I was so unimpressed with the quality).

Spoiler:


Spoiler:


You don't spend hours and hours writing a rulebook and creating large mech collections for something you don't like or you're not a fan of. Also, you mentioned the usual ":Well how good do the mechs have to be..." kind of thing which is an absolute cop out. It is absolutely a miniatures game, and the Battletech players deserve better. The new (non-existent) starter and the upcoming Clan stuff is the first time they've had decent looking mechs...ever. So that's a plus.

Also, at no point did I say we should just make Battletech into a clix game again. There is more than enough room to make Battletech into a much more modern and palatable system which can maintain all the clunky "depth" of the original game. There's just, as witnessed by your post, way too much "head in the sand" kind of mentality over this thing. It's not a big deal - people will keep playing Battletech, but it's pretty silly to not wish a product was better.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 18:11:06


Post by: Ghaz


This would make General Aleksandr Kerensky a happy man!...


[Thumb - Orion.jpg]


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 19:53:55


Post by: totalfailure


Maybe what we need is what happened to another classic, Star Fleet Battles. That game became a bloated nightmare. The Federation Commander Klingon/Romulan Border games were able to keep the essence of SFB, without becoming watered down slop like Alpha Strike. Any resemblance between Battletech and Alpha Strike is purely accidental.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 19:55:30


Post by: Nurglitch


It'll be interesting to see how they redo the Stalker.

Nevermind, I looked it up. Additionally, the Japanese Battletech designs are phenomenal.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 20:21:17


Post by: Gitzbitah


It's a tricky mix, because when I think of Battletech, I think of long slugging matches, with mechs limbs blown off, components failing, and the mechs gradually degrading, or inexplicably blowing up because of absurd luck. Simulating that without the originals numerous rolls for each hit, and heavy record keeping seems problematic if you also want multiple mechs in a game.

Theoretically, you could build it around Lance on Lance combat, and have each mech with some huge plastic command deck interface, like adeptus titanicus or many roleplaying style board games. I don't know if that would be better though.

The alternative is a more heavy Alpha strike, because atm, it does feel hollow, which is a shame. My boys love it, and it's very simple to pick up. I think even a more complicated critical hit table, with locations or individual weapons destroyed could satisfy that itch.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 22:56:56


Post by: DarkTraveler777


BrianDavion wrote:
Here's something to keep in mind about said Niche... it's not a minis game Minis are for battletech fans a side intreast at best. it's not a major part of the franchise. the game itself and the fluff are what drives it's fanbase.


That may have been true in 1984 when Battledroids (1st ed. Battletech) released as a stand alone box set, but you can't look at the old Ral Partha catalog filled with hundreds of models, and then Iron Wind Metals' catalog which added hundreds of additional models, and say Battletech isn't a minis game.

It absolutely is a minis game, it just isn't marketed like one. Big difference. The failure of the model line is its age and the lack of support that it receives from Catalyst (and prior FanPro, and FASA). The reason why there aren't more plastic miniatures available for sale is because of the Ral Partha/IWM connection, and their license to produce models for Battletech - something Catalyst doesn't have rights to as far as I know.

The minis have been a part of Battletech from day one (even Battledroids had plastic models included) and the glut of Technical Readouts, map sheets and other products which cater to miniature use should indicate just how much of a miniatures game Battletech actually is.

The problem is that Battletech tries to be too many things at once, both a miniatures game and a "board game" that allows people to use simple chits or paper markers in place of models. Those rules should have been written out of the game in 1992 with the release of 3rd edition (the first starter box with all plastic models and no paper standees)- but they were kept in and Battletech has been split ever since. The need to make the game work for people who refused to play with models kept the game from really taking off as a minis game, and it has clomped along ever since with an asterisk next to its name.

You touch on another issue:

BrianDavion wrote:
you can literally buy a battletech boxed set and never make another purchase


People seemingly take glee in the frugality Battletech offers and then lament that more stuff isn't made. No gak! People aren't spending money!

But the "one and done" purchase mindset that makes it easy getting people interested in starting Battletech also prevents it from growing and doing well.

But not a minis game? Please! FASA bought Ral Partha in the late 90's and it wasn't for their range of Shadowrun minis.



BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 23:08:07


Post by: BrianDavion


Battletech is a Mini's optional game, but it's not a mini's game. the minis are used, essentially as markers. And people do buy plenty of Btech stuff (the games been going on for 30 years) but many of these books are soruce material. campaign rules etc. it's a verry very differant busniess model from say 40k which is minis driven.

Speaking of stuff to buy the house Arano book is out


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/16 23:25:52


Post by: H.B.M.C.


It has miniatures. Doesn't make it a miniatures game.

D&D has miniatures. Pathfinder has miniatures. I doubt a single one of them is necessary to play either game.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 00:15:14


Post by: Nurglitch


Some people require a certain aesthetic before they'll play a game. Can you imagine playing 40k with standee marines? Maybe back in 2nd edition. If the mechs look good, and probably the best they ever have, it might broaden the appeal of the game.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 00:17:18


Post by: BrianDavion


Nurglitch wrote:
Some people require a certain aesthetic before they'll play a game. Can you imagine playing 40k with standee marines? Maybe back in 2nd edition. If the mechs look good, and probably the best they ever have, it might broaden the appeal of the game.


that's absolutely the case. Back when there was a Battletech demo team, to get on it it was required that you had painted minis for just that reason. but Minis are not ESSENTIAL to play. they're simply a "nice to have"


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It has miniatures. Doesn't make it a miniatures game.

D&D has miniatures. Pathfinder has miniatures. I doubt a single one of them is necessary to play either game.


cou;dn't have put it better myself.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 00:20:35


Post by: Mattlov


BrianDavion wrote:
Nurglitch wrote:
Some people require a certain aesthetic before they'll play a game. Can you imagine playing 40k with standee marines? Maybe back in 2nd edition. If the mechs look good, and probably the best they ever have, it might broaden the appeal of the game.


that's absolutely the case. Back when there was a Battletech demo team, to get on it it was required that you had painted minis for just that reason. but Minis are not ESSENTIAL to play. they're simply a "nice to have"

cou;dn't have put it better myself.


WAS a demo team? There still is, otherwise I'm getting some weird emails from random people.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 00:37:25


Post by: BrianDavion


 Mattlov wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Nurglitch wrote:
Some people require a certain aesthetic before they'll play a game. Can you imagine playing 40k with standee marines? Maybe back in 2nd edition. If the mechs look good, and probably the best they ever have, it might broaden the appeal of the game.


that's absolutely the case. Back when there was a Battletech demo team, to get on it it was required that you had painted minis for just that reason. but Minis are not ESSENTIAL to play. they're simply a "nice to have"

cou;dn't have put it better myself.


WAS a demo team? There still is, otherwise I'm getting some weird emails from random people.


poor wording oin my part then. "back last I ehard of the demo team"


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 00:52:38


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Nurglitch wrote:
Some people require a certain aesthetic before they'll play a game. Can you imagine playing 40k with standee marines? Maybe back in 2nd edition. If the mechs look good, and probably the best they ever have, it might broaden the appeal of the game.
Completely fair and them making a new set of good looking minis in plastic is a really good idea that I support (which is why I'll be jumping into this KS).

Though, when I started playing BTech, I only had the little standees (and one vinyl Warhammer! ), and it was perfectly fine. Now I have hundreds of 'Mechs, vees and Battle Armour, because I like miniatures. But not a single one of them is necessary to play the game. I'd argue the opposite for 40K.



BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 02:48:36


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Nurglitch wrote:
Some people require a certain aesthetic before they'll play a game. Can you imagine playing 40k with standee marines? Maybe back in 2nd edition. If the mechs look good, and probably the best they ever have, it might broaden the appeal of the game.
Completely fair and them making a new set of good looking minis in plastic is a really good idea that I support (which is why I'll be jumping into this KS).

Though, when I started playing BTech, I only had the little standees and one vinyl Warhammer! , and it was perfectly fine. Now I have hundreds of 'Mechs, vees and Battle Armour, because I like miniatures. But not a single one of them is necessary to play the game. I'd argue the opposite for 40K.



as would I. in many ways Battletech is the "anti-40k" (I say this as a fan of both) that said Battletech's fanbase by and large has a very "RPG" mindset. it's a differant mindset.

BTW I mentioned it earlier but just in case someone has missed it the house Arano book for battletech is now avaliable https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/277779/BattleTech-House-Arano-The-Aurigan-Coalition?src=hottest


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 03:00:47


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I've seen a number of folks getting quite annoyed at how prevalent the Awesome is on the Arano tables compared to, say, the FWL (ie. the people who actually make the 'Mech).



BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 05:04:13


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I've seen a number of folks getting quite annoyed at how prevalent the Awesome is on the Arano tables compared to, say, the FWL (ie. the people who actually make the 'Mech).



well a REALISTIC RAT would be nothing but King crabs given the coalition only has the one assault mech


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 05:40:06


Post by: Renesco P. Blue


Shameless self promotion, but if you are looking to get started in battletech, I currently have a thread up on dakka swap looking to trade away my battletech collection. Old catalyst starter box, 3rd ed starter box (which has all the old unseen models), extra first strike boxes, and a giant pile of books. I love the lore, but have no one to play against anymore. My ending could be your beginning. Pm me for details.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 06:23:45


Post by: BrianDavion


 Renesco P. Blue wrote:
Shameless self promotion, but if you are looking to get started in battletech, I currently have a thread up on dakka swap looking to trade away my battletech collection. Old catalyst starter box, 3rd ed starter box (which has all the old unseen models), extra first strike boxes, and a giant pile of books. I love the lore, but have no one to play against anymore. My ending could be your beginning. Pm me for details.



when you say a giant pile of books, do you just mean sourcebooks, or the novels?


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 07:23:13


Post by: H.B.M.C.


I so want an unseen Archer and Rifleman... but you only ship to US, so...


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 11:05:21


Post by: AegisGrimm


Im the other way. I have several mechs that I have painted from over the last 20 years, but have never bought any BT rules material.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 12:38:02


Post by: AndrewGPaul


I got interested in Battletech with my friend's copy of the 3rd edition box set of the plastic Unseen. Sub-standard even by the standards of the early 1990s (still an improvement on the 'orrible City Tech models), but enough to get me interested. I managed to weather the artistic drought of 3050 - 3058 until the 3060 TRO finally had some good FASA-original designs, even if the miniatures didn't always live up to the artwork.

Currently my collection is those 14 Mechs from BT 3rd edition (plus a Scorpion and a Goliath), and the equivalents from the Project Phoenix line. I look at them in the box every so often and think about painting them.

If the intention is for Battletech to become more popular again, then it absolutely needs to improve its production values somehow. Either half-decent miniatures, or at least interesting counters or standees, of the quality of Heroes of Normandie/Black Reach, that sort of thing. I'd almost argue that they should perhaps trim down the miniatures range, but if control of the miniatures is separate from control of the game design, then that would be difficult.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 13:11:00


Post by: Nurglitch


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I so want an unseen Archer and Rifleman... but you only ship to US, so...


The Archer in this picture looks pretty good. Possibly better than the original (your taste may vary).



BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 13:14:16


Post by: balmong7


 AndrewGPaul wrote:

If the intention is for Battletech to become more popular again, then it absolutely needs to improve its production values somehow.


Honestly? I'd settle for "keeps starter boxes in stock for longer than 6 months every 5 years".


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 13:18:17


Post by: Ghaz


Yes, that's the 'Classic' Archer that as a retcon replaces the 'Unseen' Archer. It's done by Anthony Scroggins (aka Shimmering Sword) based on his artwork...

Spoiler:


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 13:20:37


Post by: Nurglitch


 Ghaz wrote:
Yes, that's the 'Classic' Archer that as a retcon replaces the 'Unseen' Archer. It's done by Anthony Scroggins (aka Shimmering Sword) based on his artwork...

Spoiler:

So what's the Unseen Archer look like?


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 13:26:37


Post by: Ghaz


Nurglitch wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
Yes, that's the 'Classic' Archer that as a retcon replaces the 'Unseen' Archer. It's done by Anthony Scroggins (aka Shimmering Sword) based on his artwork...

Spoiler:

So what's the Unseen Archer look like?

The 'Unseen' Archer is the original artwork, i.e. the Robotech Spartan.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 13:44:49


Post by: Nurglitch


 Ghaz wrote:
Nurglitch wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
Yes, that's the 'Classic' Archer that as a retcon replaces the 'Unseen' Archer. It's done by Anthony Scroggins (aka Shimmering Sword) based on his artwork...

Spoiler:

So what's the Unseen Archer look like?

The 'Unseen' Archer is the original artwork, i.e. the Robotech Spartan.

Doesn't that make the Spartan the Classic? But yeah, Anthony Scroggins is great.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 13:49:29


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Nurglitch wrote:
The Archer in this picture looks pretty good. Possibly better than the original (your taste may vary).
Oh don't get me wrong - the new one's great, and I have two of the Project Phoenix Archers - but there's something about the original Unseen one (and the Rifleman) that really appeal to me.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 15:38:48


Post by: Ghaz


Nurglitch wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
Nurglitch wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
Yes, that's the 'Classic' Archer that as a retcon replaces the 'Unseen' Archer. It's done by Anthony Scroggins (aka Shimmering Sword) based on his artwork...

Spoiler:

So what's the Unseen Archer look like?

The 'Unseen' Archer is the original artwork, i.e. the Robotech Spartan.

Doesn't that make the Spartan the Classic? But yeah, Anthony Scroggins is great.

No. The 'Unseen' are those 'mechs using artwork from Super Dimensional Fortress Macross, Crusher Joe, Fang of the Sun Dougram and a few other sources that Catalyst will not use again due to past legal issues and not being made in-house. The 'Reseen' represent new, updated models of the Unseen 'mechs with new artwork (e.g. the differences between a 1969 and a 2019 Ford Mustang). The 'Classic' is/was a term for the updated line art that replaces the 'Unseen' artwork and is a retcon for what those 'mechs were always considered to look like in-universe (barring the 'Reseen' which remain as is).


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 15:53:09


Post by: Nurglitch


 Ghaz wrote:
Nurglitch wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
Nurglitch wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
Yes, that's the 'Classic' Archer that as a retcon replaces the 'Unseen' Archer. It's done by Anthony Scroggins (aka Shimmering Sword) based on his artwork...

Spoiler:

So what's the Unseen Archer look like?

The 'Unseen' Archer is the original artwork, i.e. the Robotech Spartan.

Doesn't that make the Spartan the Classic? But yeah, Anthony Scroggins is great.

No. The 'Unseen' are those 'mechs using artwork from Super Dimensional Fortress Macross, Crusher Joe, Fang of the Sun Dougram and a few other sources that Catalyst will not use again due to past legal issues and not being made in-house. The 'Reseen' represent new, updated models of the Unseen 'mechs with new artwork (e.g. the differences between a 1969 and a 2019 Ford Mustang). The 'Classic' is/was a term for the updated line art that replaces the 'Unseen' artwork and is a retcon for what those 'mechs were always considered to look like in-universe (barring the 'Reseen' which remain as is).

BattleTech gonna BattleTech I suppose.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 16:41:03


Post by: balmong7


EDIT: Nevermind. I thought the post said it was releasing June 17th. but it says July 17th.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 17:26:38


Post by: Gitzbitah


balmong7 wrote:
EDIT: Nevermind. I thought the post said it was releasing June 17th. but it says July 17th.


Also very important to note that that's the kickstarter launch date, not the street date for these beautiful models. Because they're presented in finished storefront packaging, many people are going to make that mistake. We probably won't have our hands on them until sometime next year.

Sadly, I can't tell when. I don't have
Spoiler:
2020 vision.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 19:02:38


Post by: BrianDavion


Nurglitch wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
Nurglitch wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
Nurglitch wrote:
 Ghaz wrote:
Yes, that's the 'Classic' Archer that as a retcon replaces the 'Unseen' Archer. It's done by Anthony Scroggins (aka Shimmering Sword) based on his artwork...

Spoiler:

So what's the Unseen Archer look like?

The 'Unseen' Archer is the original artwork, i.e. the Robotech Spartan.

Doesn't that make the Spartan the Classic? But yeah, Anthony Scroggins is great.

No. The 'Unseen' are those 'mechs using artwork from Super Dimensional Fortress Macross, Crusher Joe, Fang of the Sun Dougram and a few other sources that Catalyst will not use again due to past legal issues and not being made in-house. The 'Reseen' represent new, updated models of the Unseen 'mechs with new artwork (e.g. the differences between a 1969 and a 2019 Ford Mustang). The 'Classic' is/was a term for the updated line art that replaces the 'Unseen' artwork and is a retcon for what those 'mechs were always considered to look like in-universe (barring the 'Reseen' which remain as is).

BattleTech gonna BattleTech I suppose.


the retcon was needed. the mechs lost where classic designs in the fluff that they needed to be able to depict


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 19:49:50


Post by: Miguelsan


The IS Command box is Marauder, Archer, Valkyrie, Stinger? or is that Valkyrie supposed to represent the PP Wasp?

M.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 19:54:05


Post by: Mattlov


 Miguelsan wrote:
The IS Command box is Marauder, Archer, Valkyrie, Stinger? or is that Valkyrie supposed to represent the PP Wasp?

M.


Should be a Valkyrie.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 19:58:28


Post by: Ghaz


I don't see them putting a Project Phoenix 'mech in with everything else being Shimmering Sword's work, so I agree with it being a Valkyrie.



BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 21:09:41


Post by: Elbows


HBMC - why not grab the Robotech Tactics KS models for the unseen stuff? They're scale appropriate (possibly a bit large), but they're the classic ones, and poseable, etc.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 23:16:25


Post by: Miguelsan


The RTT destroids are a bit smaller. I had to buff mine a little bit so they would match the other heavy mechs. IIRC the veritechs are bigger than the equivalent, maybe not that bad to pose as a Phoenix Hawk, but too big for a Wasp and a Stinger.

M.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/17 23:58:56


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Elbows wrote:
HBMC - why not grab the Robotech Tactics KS models for the unseen stuff? They're scale appropriate (possibly a bit large), but they're the classic ones, and poseable, etc.
Thought about it. Actually had found someone offering boxes of both... then a few hours later this KS was announced.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/18 00:43:11


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Elbows wrote:
HBMC - why not grab the Robotech Tactics KS models for the unseen stuff? They're scale appropriate (possibly a bit large), but they're the classic ones, and poseable, etc.
Thought about it. Actually had found someone offering boxes of both... then a few hours later this KS was announced.


yeah it's no accident Robotech Tactics had the same scale as Battletech minis. Paladium knew they'd be getting cross over sales


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/18 02:01:46


Post by: Elbows


Yeah I had the Robotech stuff (well the 1/3rd I was delivered by the lying sack of gak Kevin Siembeda) and used several in my large Battletech formations before selling them off.

They scale well, and while being slightly fiddly were far nicer than the average BT mech. It looks like they'll be covering most of the bases with the new minis -but anything left over is easy to find. The Robotech stuff became absurdly cheap (it was 60%+ off before it disappeared from some sites). I'm sitting on a couple of bags of excess starter kits...probably have a couple dozen of each in there if I ever get back into Btech


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/18 20:28:13


Post by: Miguelsan


And now the Impudent Mortal fellow comes up with this to complement the new mechs.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1141913215/mech-cockpit-simulator?ref=user_menu&fbclid=IwAR0q3lX9ue4L0-x_UItuGs0cmAGyxzkDiB6JunalwaRmUJK1UPs9PtVRhe4
It's too expensive for my budget but I wish I could get one of each of the basic 15.

M.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 02:58:17


Post by: DarkTraveler777


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It has miniatures. Doesn't make it a miniatures game.

D&D has miniatures. Pathfinder has miniatures. I doubt a single one of them is necessary to play either game.


It is interesting that you used RPGs as an example. I suppose those are the only other games out there that have big minis lines but aren't miniature games. But is Battletech a RPG? No, that would be A Time of War, the RPG set in the Battletech universe.

RPGs use minis merely for player visualization, Battletech uses minis for much more, and while those rules are optional, they are only optional because Battletech can't seem to let old iterations completely die off.

But, to make my case for Battletech being a miniatures game:

Battletech has rules for line of sight, terrain, etc. therefore it is a miniatures game.

Battletech has a points-based system for creating balanced forces therefore it is a miniatures game.

Battletech has a huge range of (outdated) miniatures therefore it is a miniatures game.

The only reason an argument for it being "miniatures optional" as BrianDavion claims is because the game never dropped the holdover rules from 1st and 2nd edition. The game was, and continues to be crippled by that decision. But yeah, a 1000+ SKU model range is merely optional.

That mindset is why Battletech has been on life support for two decades. The game is a miniatures game that was never properly marketed, and its development was hindered by a refusal to drop the beer-and-pretzel-1980's-boxed-game mindset that it began with but from which it has long since moved on.




BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 03:21:46


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Having LOS/terrain rules does not make you a miniatures game, especially when said rules are binary and are played out in 2 dimensions.

I don't see what "having points for balance" has anything to do with miniatures games.

And it has a range of miniatures that are 100% optional. You can play the game with coins.

Alpha Strike is a miniatures game. BattleTech is not.




BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 03:47:26


Post by: BrianDavion


But, to make my case for Battletech being a miniatures game:


Fine and I'll summarily destroy your argument.

Battletech has rules for line of sight, terrain, etc. therefore it is a miniatures game.


No it's not. because those rules don't interact with the minis at all. the line of sight, terrain etc is entirely set by the hexmap the game is played on. yes you can play with a mini to mark your unit. but it's not required. you can play Battletech with monopoly markers, toe nail clippings etc. Ohh BTW D&D also has rules for terrain, line of sight etc. but D&D isn't a table top mini game.

Battletech has a points-based system for creating balanced forces therefore it is a miniatures game.


Absolutely irrelevant, using points as a balancing agent is hardly unique to Mini games. it's a feature of tabletop wargames yes, of which battletech is. but it's not a MINIATURES GAME.

Battletech has a huge range of (outdated) miniatures therefore it is a miniatures game


D&D also has a huge range of miniatures. therefore is D&D a minitures game? you seem to think RPGs are the only valid use of Minis in gaming outside of outright mini games. they're not.

The only reason an argument for it being "miniatures optional" as BrianDavion claims is because the game never dropped the holdover rules from 1st and 2nd edition. The game was, and continues to be crippled by that decision. But yeah, a 1000+ SKU model range is merely optional


the rules for running battletech as a miniatures game isn't even in the core rules. Yes using minis as markers is the norm. but that no more makes it a mini game then fething Monopoly is.I repeat the rules to run Battletech as a mini game ala warhammer 40k. with minis marking line of sight, actual terrain etc, is NOT in the core rule book. (nor should it be the scale on so many of the minis is aweful because they're not really designed with mini gaming ala warhammer or hoards etc in mind)

That mindset is why Battletech has been on life support for two decades. The game is a miniatures game that was never properly marketed, and its development was hindered by a refusal to drop the beer-and-pretzel-1980's-boxed-game mindset that it began with but from which it has long since moved on.


I'll agree on the poor marketing 100% (I've often said that the biggest screw up in battletech's history was the video games being called Mechwarrior and not Battletech) but the game isn't a minis game. and thats not a bad thing. I've seen people look at the cost involved in getting into mini games like 40k and walk away, Battletech by comparison is dirt cheap. but no Battletech isn't a mini game. I don't need minis to play it. this had lead to a very VERY differant approuch to the game from a mini game. Mini games make the bulk of their money from mini sales the rules are produced occasionally and editions make changes to push sales (see 40k) battletech meanwhile is very sourcebook driven. when GW started pushing out their codex supplements the reaction was pretty negitive, a buncha lore and 1 or 2 pages of rules. In battletech that's basicly the norm. it's a table top wargame but the game is developed almost more like a RPG then say... warhammer


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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Having LOS/terrain rules does not make you a miniatures game, especially when said rules are binary and are played out in 2 dimensions.

I don't see what "having points for balance" has anything to do with miniatures games.

And it has a range of miniatures that are 100% optional. You can play the game with coins.

Alpha Strike is a miniatures game. BattleTech is not.




as evidanced by where the rules to play battletech as a minis game are located (in Alpha strike) when your core rule book doesn't have the rule;s to play your game as a mini game. it's not a mini game


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 04:44:17


Post by: zreef


lol amazing ...

I play warhammer fantasy with just movement trays and dice to denote wounds / models slain. So, that must not be a miniatures game (I also play with with miniatures as well).

I have seen warmahordes played with bases with just paper denoting what the base is. You dont need models for LOS since its just base size that determines it. Most players dont use 3d terrain anymore, just flat cutouts to denote 2d areas.

With infinity terrain matters, but models certainly do not. You can also use chits, just need to have their facing denoted somehow and when you need to figure out LOS you use the size templates s1-s7. Minis totally optional and unnecessary.

now coming back to battle tech, I play it in board game mode with the hex grid, I also play it on fully 3d tables without the hex grid using the alternative movement rules in total warfare. Terrain certainly matters here and LOS is no different than any other game that doesn't use true line of sight.

In fact the only time miniatures mater is when you have a game that has true line of sight --- and how many of those exist these days?


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in fact most games can be played out in 2d just fine, except for infinity. We use models and terrain to add to the visual aspect of games and almost never to the actual game play.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 05:06:43


Post by: Elbows


Argue all you want, you won't convince me. Battletech would have never made it if miniatures hadn't been at the core of the gameplay experience. It would have been another doomed hex-and-chit game.

Saying it's not a miniature game is just being pedantic.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 06:22:18


Post by: Albertorius


 DarkTraveler777 wrote:
RPGs use minis merely for player visualization, Battletech uses minis for much more, and while those rules are optional, they are only optional because Battletech can't seem to let old iterations completely die off.

My understanding is that in each and every core rule the use of any kind of miniature is completely inconsequential, as everything pertains to the board.

I actually like it for that. None of the guessing of miniatures game, everything is clear as day.

Spoiler:
Battletech has rules for line of sight, terrain, etc. therefore it is a miniatures game.

Battletech has a points-based system for creating balanced forces therefore it is a miniatures game.

Battletech has a huge range of (outdated) miniatures therefore it is a miniatures game.

Battletech has rules for line of sight... yeah. So does Batman Gotham Chronicles and Advanced Squad Leader. Plus, you know, none of the LoS rules need the miniatures.
Battletech has a points-based system for creating balanced forces therefore it is a miniatures game.... so does Heroes of Normandy, and loads of other board games.
Battletech has a huge range of (outdated) miniatures therefore it is a miniatures game.... well, so does chess, so obviously it's also a miniatures game.




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zreef wrote:
lol amazing ...

I play warhammer fantasy with just movement trays and dice to denote wounds / models slain. So, that must not be a miniatures game (I also play with with miniatures as well).

I have seen warmahordes played with bases with just paper denoting what the base is. You dont need models for LOS since its just base size that determines it. Most players dont use 3d terrain anymore, just flat cutouts to denote 2d areas.

I might be wrong, mind... but do any of Warhammer or Warmahordes' rules, the ones in the book, pertain to a board? Do they make any reference to a board of any kind, do they define ranges as some kind of in-a-board measurement (like squares, hexes, spaces or anything)?

And conversely, do Battletech rules, the ones in the book, define its rules than anything else as "in-a-board" definitions? I mean, it's nice that there are rules for playing it without, but if those are not even in the core book.... well, I'd say the intent is clear.

IMHO, I would argue that what you saw is exactly the same as we're seeing here, just the other way around: you've seen two miniatures games played with the trinkets of a boardgame, same way as many people play Battletech with the trinkets of a miniatures game, namely minis

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 Elbows wrote:
Saying it's not a miniature game is just being pedantic.

Well, saying it is a miniatures game is being wrong . So I guess we're all in good company xD

Loads of boardgames have lovely miniatures this days, people. That doesn't make them miniature games, nor does that make them "doing it wrong". People love miniatures, companies give them miniatures. I don't exactly see what the problem is.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 07:54:38


Post by: AndrewGPaul


Looking at the product photos of the "BattleTech: A Game of Armored Combat" box on the Battletech wiki, I'm impressed - it's actually a competitive product, visually! Which hasn't always been the case in the past. My only quibble is that elevation changes are always depicted on the map sheets as flat-sided mesas, but that's a minor thing. and I don't like the modern chubby Catapult. Bring back the proportions of the 3025 original, I say.

Anything they can do to promote Battletech to a new audience rather than just the same old grognards is a benefit, I'd say.

does that BT:AGoAC box do anything to split the models up by faction, or is it just a matter of picking the ones you like, and leaving it to the mountain of sourcebooks to define that sort of thing?


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 08:06:29


Post by: H.B.M.C.


You can split them, but they come with some of the most common 'Mechs ever made (even moreso with these coming boxes) which means that (with few exception*), everyone pretty much has loads of the things already.

And the new Catapult isn't chunky. That distinction belongs to the horrific PlasTech miniature. *shudder*


*Commando is Lyran, Catapult is Capellan, and the Awesome is Purple Bird, but they're really the most 'house-y' of them.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 08:12:54


Post by: BrianDavion


just about all the 3025 mechs are used to one degree or another by all of the great houses. the Lyrans may manafacture the commando, and the mech may be aomewhat associated with them, but 300 years of conflict have spread the design around. No one's going to blink at seeing a Commando in Liao colours, a Awesome in Davion Colours, a Dragon in Marik colours etc.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 08:27:21


Post by: AndrewGPaul


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
the Awesome is Purple Bird


I have no idea what that means.

The lack of defined visual identity for the factions is likely to be the most off-putting thing to new players. All modern games seem to have a very distinct look for each of their factions, as something to draw new players to one or the other. Even if you do dig into the background and buy "faction specific" 'Mechs there's no real visual continuity between, say, all the Capellan 'Mechs.

That was always something that bugged me in the background for the Unseen. Take the Warhammer and Rifleman for example; they share significant commonality (obviously, given the source of their designs), so you'd think they came from the same manufacturer, but you'd be wrong. Likewise wht Marauder, Stalker and Catapult. All three of those are very visually distinct from anything else in the 3025 TRO, but there's no obvious connection between the three.

I know in the real world military equipment doesn't get the same sort of corporate design cues as ordinary cars or trucks, but in the context of a game in a fictional setting, it always felt like the art direction was a little off. Not just in Battletech; Crimson Skies looked the same, to me. Reaper's CAV had the same idea, that each nation bought their equipment from companies across the setting, but at least there, there was a commonality of design across models that were stated to be from the same in-setting manufacturer.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 08:33:12


Post by: AndrewGPaul


Oh, and H.B.M.C, this is the Catapult I was thinking of (from CMON:



BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 08:55:25


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
I have no idea what that means.
House Marik. The Free World's League. The BTech thread over at 4Chan always calls them Purple Bird as that's what their house insignia is.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
The lack of defined visual identity for the factions is likely to be the most off-putting thing to new players. All modern games seem to have a very distinct look for each of their factions, as something to draw new players to one or the other. Even if you do dig into the background and buy "faction specific" 'Mechs there's no real visual continuity between, say, all the Capellan 'Mechs.
There tends to be more distinction as time goes on, so a lot of the Draconis Combine/Kuritan 'Mechs have a very Japanese flair to them, but one of the big things in the setting is, as Brian said, that these things have been around so long that pretty much everyone has a few of everything floating around.

That's one of the things I like, as there are so many (one could argue too many) designs out there that it'd such to find something you like but find out it's an "X Only" 'Mech. There are very few of those in the game (certain 2nd Line Clan 'Mechs are unlikely to show up in other forces, especially if they're a Totem 'Mech, and Word of Blake Manei Domini 'Celestial' 'Mechs won't appear anywhere else as you need to be a nutcase cybernetic psychopath to drive one!).

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
That was always something that bugged me in the background for the Unseen. Take the Warhammer and Rifleman for example; they share significant commonality (obviously, given the source of their designs), so you'd think they came from the same manufacturer, but you'd be wrong. Likewise wht Marauder, Stalker and Catapult. All three of those are very visually distinct from anything else in the 3025 TRO, but there's no obvious connection between the three.
A lot of that comes from 'out of universe' stuff, where the artwork wasn't really done to exemplify a particular faction (with the odd exception).

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
I know in the real world military equipment doesn't get the same sort of corporate design cues as ordinary cars or trucks, but in the context of a game in a fictional setting, it always felt like the art direction was a little off. Not just in Battletech; Crimson Skies looked the same, to me. Reaper's CAV had the same idea, that each nation bought their equipment from companies across the setting, but at least there, there was a commonality of design across models that were stated to be from the same in-setting manufacturer.
There are some things they do as they've filled in the blanks for the early Succession Wars stuff, introducing 'new' 'Mechs that are actually old long-extinct designs that were the forebears of the more common 'Mechs we see today, or designs that led to the more iconic Clan 'Mechs down the line (eg. the Thresher vs the latter Thor).


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 09:29:20


Post by: AndrewGPaul


I know why, in-universe, most 'mechs are "universal". I just mean that a lot of potential players these days expect to see visually-distinct factions for games - it's one of the initial appeals - and Battletech might be passing them by for that reason. Certainly, perosnally speaking, I always felt that the background was rather separate to the game itself, which is why it never really clicked with me to the same extent as 40k. If it's expained in the background, only people who get past that initial reaction are going to be in a position to learn that.

Perhaps the next Kickstarter could be faction-specific Lance boxes?

As for the talk about the artwork, that's what I meant about the artwork. GW, for example, spends a lot of time and effort making sure that almost everything about a Space Marine looks like a Space Marine. Even to new players, you can take, say some Space Marines, Astra Militarum and Mechanicus models and there's some things that mark them as coming from the same overall culture (skulls, power cables and bulky square weapons), and things that mark them out as distinct within that (rivets on Astra Militarum tanks, overlapping smooth panels on Space Marine vehicles, the Mechanicus skull icon). That's something I feel Battletech (and FASA generally, when it was their game) didn't do well.

I'm looking at this from someone who's only really dabbled in BT over the years; A friend had the 3rd edition box, I bought CityTech, we both had whatever the 3rd and then 4th edition hardback main rulebooks were called, and between us had most of the TRO books and Field Manuals, but that was 20 years ago while I was a student. I was never into the novels, so I didn't follow the ongoing story; just seeing the odd snapshot from the field manuals.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 12:35:37


Post by: zreef


 Albertorius wrote:

And conversely, do Battletech rules, the ones in the book, define its rules than anything else as "in-a-board" definitions? I mean, it's nice that there are rules for playing it without, but if those are not even in the core book.... well, I'd say the intent is clear.

IMHO, I would argue that what you saw is exactly the same as we're seeing here, just the other way around: you've seen two miniatures games played with the trinkets of a boardgame, same way as many people play Battletech with the trinkets of a miniatures game, namely minis
.


Yes there are rules in the core rulebook for battle tech (Total war) to play on a regular table with 3d terrain and use rulers for movement -- it is one of two ways battletech is played. These rules are default for Alpha Strike.

A lot of people play using the hex maps because you have a tables worth of terrain in 4 folded sheets of paper ... it also means you need less space to play. I personally enjoy the inches and 3d terrain feel for battle tech and play it that way any time I can.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 13:08:52


Post by: Albertorius


zreef wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:

And conversely, do Battletech rules, the ones in the book, define its rules than anything else as "in-a-board" definitions? I mean, it's nice that there are rules for playing it without, but if those are not even in the core book.... well, I'd say the intent is clear.

IMHO, I would argue that what you saw is exactly the same as we're seeing here, just the other way around: you've seen two miniatures games played with the trinkets of a boardgame, same way as many people play Battletech with the trinkets of a miniatures game, namely minis
.


Yes there are rules in the core rulebook for battle tech (Total war) to play on a regular table with 3d terrain and use rulers for movement -- it is one of two ways battletech is played. These rules are default for Alpha Strike.

A lot of people play using the hex maps because you have a tables worth of terrain in 4 folded sheets of paper ... it also means you need less space to play. I personally enjoy the inches and 3d terrain feel for battle tech and play it that way any time I can.


Funny you say that, because that's not in my copy of Total Warfare.

And this is what the aforementioned book says about the question:


3-D TERRAIN VS. PAPER MAPS
BattleTech at its core is a board game; players move pieces on a hex-grid mapsheet. Unlike tabletop miniatures games, which use three-dimensional (3-D) terrain and rulers to approximate movement and combat, the core BattleTech game rules use specific, codified movement and combat ranges within a mapsheet’s hex grid.
Nevertheless, any game system that uses three-dimensional miniatures (such as the complete line of BattleTech miniatures sold by Iron Wind Metals; see p. 12) looks better when played on 3-D terrain—hence the photos in this rulebook. Three-dimensional terrain also enhances the feel of the game. When using 3-D terrain, however, players should note that BattleTech requires hex-grids.
While Total Warfare and other rulebooks all require the playing area (whether mapsheets or 3-D terrain) to be a hex grid, some players may wish to learn how to play BattleTech as a table-top miniatures game (using rulers and without the hex grid on 3-D terrain). Players can visit bg.battletech.com to download a free conversion rules set—BattleTech Miniatures Rules—covering the differences between the two types of play.


So yeah, you can indeed use 3d terrain with the Total Warfare ruleset... as long as it has hexes on it and use the boardgame rules. Otherwise, you can go to the downloadable conversion set, which is not in the book. THAT would be the miniatures game. The actual, core game? Well, I guess them saying as much won't change anyone's mind, but definitions exist for a reason.

As to Alpha Strike it's definitely a different ruleset that IS an actual miniatures game.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 14:23:15


Post by: AndrewGPaul


Right, that's settled, apparently.



BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 14:30:21


Post by: zreef


 Albertorius wrote:


So yeah, you can indeed use 3d terrain with the Total Warfare ruleset... as long as it has hexes on it and use the boardgame rules. Otherwise, you can go to the downloadable conversion set, which is not in the book. THAT would be the miniatures game. The actual, core game? Well, I guess them saying as much won't change anyone's mind, but definitions exist for a reason.



Not sure which version you are using, but no download needed and no hexes needed in my total warfare book. BT has been through many iterations. My book is about a decade old - right when the 25th anniversary box came out. Does yours not include the rules for using inches for movement, turning, and JJs? Which version do you have, im oddly curious now. There are a number of changes that have come over the years where various printings of total warfare are contradictory. Would be interesting if this again is the case -- our most recent heated argument was with how mech networks worked two complete different rule sets for this in two different printings of the book.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and for the record I really dont care if its considered a miniatures game or not to me it is as I use miniatures to play it


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 14:31:30


Post by: Albertorius


The last one, the one with the Vintage Atlas that's just been reprinted (I bought the pdf a while ago, and no version I've had included miniature rules). The last one I remember including them (in the back) was the BMR book.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 14:33:29


Post by: Nurglitch


Is Alpha Strike fun? It seems like it captures the essence of BattleTech as something where you can push a little risk (heat) to make it less grindy.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 14:48:52


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Alpha Strike removes too much of what makes BattleTech BattleTech. The individuality of units goes away.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 15:00:15


Post by: Nurglitch


I thought the notion of roles like Sniper and Brawler were kind of neat ways of differentiating between mechs like Warhammers and Marauders.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 15:15:20


Post by: Davor


I don't want to get in the debate of if BattleTech is a miniature game or not, I am surprised this wasn't brought up. When I bought BattleTech first edition, there were only card board cut outs that came with the game. I know Battledroids was mentioned but I don't know nothing about it so can't say.

But first edition BattleTech, Citytech and areotech all had cardboard cut outs to use. So does that make it a miniature game? Don't know. Don't care. All that matters is I had so much fun with using both cardboard cut outs and miniatures.

As was mentioned before, Warmahordes don't need minis to play. Same can be said for 40K as well. You don't need minis either, older editions of 40K.

Does it really matter if it is a miniature game or not? As long as it's fun, who cares.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 16:37:30


Post by: zreef


 Albertorius wrote:
The last one, the one with the Vintage Atlas that's just been reprinted (I bought the pdf a while ago, and no version I've had included miniature rules). The last one I remember including them (in the back) was the BMR book.


that's really interesting ... here are the rules that are printed in my version

http://www.darkagepress.com/files/BTMiniRules.pdf

It sounds like they were removed from more recent printings. My friend has the printing after mine but before the one you have, ill check to see if its in his.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
as a side note, if you have never played BT with miniature rules ... you should they are a lot of fun


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 17:05:34


Post by: BrianDavion


the mini tules have never really been seen as the core. most folks play with thge hexmaps. (in fairness it's a lot easier to set up a hexmap then to set terrain) that said I've heard that it is a very fun game with minis although the scale issues with many of the minis could make it frustrating


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 18:31:48


Post by: AndrewGPaul


Is the issue that BattleTech has vever had a set scale? Unless the Marauder is piloted by agoraphobic hobbits and the Battlemaster has a jacuzzi in there.

We found the tripling of ranges in the minis rules pointless - we just made one MP = 1" instead. Saved multiplying up everything by three.


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I heard about the below 18 years ago on a Yahoo! Group, but never got a chance to try it out:

12 segment turn from champions.

If your mech moved faster than 12, you'd get to move one hex every segment, and 2 hexes on the segments that your leftover speeds went. Thus, speed 14 moves 1 hex every segment, with 2 hexes on segments 6 and 12.

Mechs moved in order from heaviest to smallest; ties in the move order were resolved by rolling piloting skills. All fire was simultaneous on a given segment. (In theory, all movement should've been simul, but we never found a solution we liked for it.)

Moving into terrain would cost you future movement points. We pretty much did away with the distinction between walking and running -- everyone got their run speed for determining movement points. You generated 1 heat for every 4 movement points spent during a turn, and
1 heat per hex covered via jump.

A jumping mech had to place a counter on the hex it would land in; it moved at 1 hex/segment while mid-air (and made SUCH a lovely target). It was possible to combine jumping and running in the same movement. We pretty much had you make piloting checks for entering terrain and for jumping. If you missed your jump piloting roll, you
landed funny. If you botched your jump piloting roll (natural 12), we rolled two dice to determine which hex you actually landed in...

If you fired a weapon, you had to wait a number of segments equal to the heat generated to let the "barrel cool down" before firing it again. This did mean ballistic weapons gained a lot of RoF.

Heat sinks were done post-segment 12. (Exception: Ending a segment in level 1 water would dump 1 heat per segment, level 2 would dump 2 heat per segment. Infernos added 1 heat per segment, and fire added 1 heat per segment.)

We re-defined a hex as being 100 m to make the weapon ranges match what we wanted.

Mostly, we stuck with the 3025 book 'Mechs for this, because it made life MUCH simpler.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 20:23:40


Post by: Gitzbitah


For those wondering about what mechs go where, it's true they can go anywhere, but some are more commonly associated with other houses. This is most often expressed in the lore of where they are produced, and in the RAT. Here's a very quick and free sample of some. https://www.dropbox.com/s/yh0d5y4f0j3jkiv/3028-3050%20Random%20Assignment%20%26%20Rarity%20Tables%209.1.pdf?dl=0

One of the coolest features of Battletech, in my opinion, is the fact that most designs really can be used in any era, and have models that ARE more exclusive to faction. The Catapult, for example, is a Liao mech. But any of the CPLT-K series are DCMS designs.And the Griffin's a Lyran mech, unless it's a GRF-3M, in which case it's a Marik mech.

It's a game that starts, and ends, with the idea that anybody can use anything, but adds on very distinct flavor as technology advances.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 20:26:13


Post by: Chillreaper


Nurglitch wrote:
Is Alpha Strike fun? It seems like it captures the essence of BattleTech as something where you can push a little risk (heat) to make it less grindy.



I think that it is.

I wasn't convinced when I first read the rules, but having given it a few goes, I really like it. You have different movement modes, ranges, heat, positioning, rear shots all making an appearance. Crits happen, weapons are destroyed, legs are damaged and reactors get shot up.

Of course it's more abstracted - that's the point and, yes mechs lose a lot of the nuenced differences, but I had no problems visualising my Warhammer being caught out in the open with it's armour in tatters, overheating, one leg and a PPC being shot off yet refusing to go down.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/19 22:05:34


Post by: AegisGrimm


Nurglitch wrote:
Is Alpha Strike fun? It seems like it captures the essence of BattleTech as something where you can push a little risk (heat) to make it less grindy.


Mech Attack (by a different company) is a far better (in my personal experience) ruleset to be a "rules light" Battletech. Heat is handled well, and there is a nice combined arms feel of mechs/vehicles/infantry, but the weapons are pretty watered down into broad "laser/machinegun/missles/cannons categories (mostly light/med/heavy of each type, but they can also be bought as twin-linked, AP, and such for some flavor).

Armor is whittled away, and Heat can still shut down a mech or cause critical systems to fail, etc, but forces can have larger amounts of mechs/vehicles without nearly as much work.

I mostly just want better mechs that I may not neccessarily use for Battletech, as the iconic mechs for BT have always been pretty fun designs for giant stompy robots.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/20 06:25:31


Post by: Albertorius


zreef wrote:
as a side note, if you have never played BT with miniature rules ... you should they are a lot of fun

One of the things I enjoy about Classic Battletech is how unambiguous it is regarding a lot of contentious stuff that usually happen in miniature games (like LoS, exact ranges and movements and the like) due to the fact that it is played under the assumption that there is a board and hexes... removing them, for me, would be missing the point entirely of one of the big reasons why I like it.

I have lots of other miniature games that I can (and do) play before needing to use this one for something that it doesn't really excel in, IMHO. Plus, there's also Alpha Strike if I just want to play a fast-ish minis game with mech-like units.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/20 07:45:26


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Albertorius wrote:
One of the things I enjoy about Classic Battletech is how unambiguous it is regarding a lot of contentious stuff that usually happen in miniature games (like LoS, exact ranges and movements and the like) due to the fact that it is played under the assumption that there is a board and hexes... removing them, for me, would be missing the point entirely of one of the big reasons why I like it.
That's one of the chief reasons I like the game. Everything is binary. There's no ambiguity of LOS/movement/range and all that other nonsense. You're either in LOS, of you aren't. In range, or not. The game has no "maybe" in those areas.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/20 12:59:52


Post by: Nurglitch


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
One of the things I enjoy about Classic Battletech is how unambiguous it is regarding a lot of contentious stuff that usually happen in miniature games (like LoS, exact ranges and movements and the like) due to the fact that it is played under the assumption that there is a board and hexes... removing them, for me, would be missing the point entirely of one of the big reasons why I like it.
That's one of the chief reasons I like the game. Everything is binary. There's no ambiguity of LOS/movement/range and all that other nonsense. You're either in LOS, of you aren't. In range, or not. The game has no "maybe" in those areas.

Board games are great that way.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/26 21:45:56


Post by: Gitzbitah


Here's a closeup that was put on Facebook of the Nova-

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B35pgfSKJGTwSXBzMGkzWWNkaW9IS0R3NUR6WXItekRXeW1R/view?usp=sharing

Sorry for the link, not sure how to get it posted otherwise.

Our intrepid sculptor claimed they were going to be coming for third party manufacturers by putting out enough plastic mechs to form the cores of many different forces.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/26 22:24:29


Post by: AndrewGPaul


Well, that's night and day compared to the last plastic Nova. I can look at that and think "Hey, that's pretty cool. What's this game like?"


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/26 22:33:08


Post by: Mattlov


It is a pretty Nova. Hopefully they can get the 3D print lines removed before production.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/26 23:06:46


Post by: Davor


Need to say Meh on the mini. Maybe it's too little too late. Or mostly is I can never buy the stuff so why even bother getting interested in BattleTech again.

Use to love BattleTech, but now, I know I won't be able to get my hands on any physical product so can't really care anymore. Still care since I check up on BattleTech but can't interested in buying anything knowing I don't even have a chance to buy it.

Sad.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 00:23:01


Post by: Nostromodamus


Davor wrote:
Need to say Meh on the mini. Maybe it's too little too late. Or mostly is I can never buy the stuff so why even bother getting interested in BattleTech again.

Use to love BattleTech, but now, I know I won't be able to get my hands on any physical product so can't really care anymore. Still care since I check up on BattleTech but can't interested in buying anything knowing I don't even have a chance to buy it.

Sad.


This is hilarious because you’re posting this in a thread about a KS that literally gives you the chance to buy it.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 02:10:18


Post by: Davor


 Nostromodamus wrote:
Davor wrote:
Need to say Meh on the mini. Maybe it's too little too late. Or mostly is I can never buy the stuff so why even bother getting interested in BattleTech again.

Use to love BattleTech, but now, I know I won't be able to get my hands on any physical product so can't really care anymore. Still care since I check up on BattleTech but can't interested in buying anything knowing I don't even have a chance to buy it.

Sad.


This is hilarious because you’re posting this in a thread about a KS that literally gives you the chance to buy it.


Robotech?


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 02:30:32


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Good looking Nova, and yeah, quite an improvement over my old CityTech 2 Novas.

Davor wrote:
Robotech?
... has nothing to do with BattleTech.

Try again.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 02:40:58


Post by: Davor


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Good looking Nova, and yeah, quite an improvement over my old CityTech 2 Novas.

Davor wrote:
Robotech?
... has nothing to do with BattleTech.

Try again.


Uhm. It has everything to do with BattleTech. Many people did not get what they wanted through Kickstarter Robotech. Lots of people had to accept something else and get nothing else. So are you going to vouch that this will not happen with the BattleTech Kickstarter? Just because it's a Kickstarter doesn't mean people will get what they paid for. I just used Robotech as a perfect example. Person claimed people get product by ordering through Kickstarter and that is not the case.

Shall I bring up the old Dakka Robotech thread as proof or reminder?

So how am I wrong saying that just because it's a Kickstarter it's no guarantee of receiving what ordered. Maybe you or Nosromodamus will guarantee that everyone receives their product?


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 02:47:26


Post by: Azreal13


So what you're essentially saying is because one bad thing happened to do with giant robot games, then all giant robot games are forever cursed to fail in the same way?

Completely disregarding that the majority of KS, even those that encounter delays, do, in fact, deliver?

It's manufactured angst based on bs logic.



BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 02:52:31


Post by: Davor


 Azreal13 wrote:
So what you're essentially saying is because one bad thing happened to do with giant robot games, then all giant robot games are forever cursed to fail in the same way?

Completely disregarding that the majority of KS, even those that encounter delays, do, in fact, deliver?

It's manufactured angst based on bs logic.



Where do you get that? Twisting my words? All I said it was no guarantee. Didn't say anything else. If I made an error in comment, then say what I did say, not what I never said or never intended. I never said Catalyst wasn't dependable. They can be very late on their orders but it's hard to get buy them since they never make enough.

Yes there is so many success on Kickstarter, but there are also lots of failures as well. So do you want to be in the group and guarantee everyone that places an order will get it? Again, I never did say people will not get what they ordered, all I said is, I wasn't able to buy any physical products from Catalyst lately. Just because it's on Kickstarter, I said it's no guarantee that I will receive anything.

So please, comment on what I did say, not what I didn't.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 03:02:38


Post by: Azreal13


I was, perhaps take a moment to read what you wrote, rather than what you thought you did?

Why on earth would I guarantee anything? You can't even guarantee that your eBay purchase will show up. It's KS, you pay your money and take your chance, but the odds are generally in your favour if one is not a moron and doesn't back projects that show all the signs of being doomed to fail before they start.

But don't come into a thread lamenting how you "know (you) won't be able to get (your) hands on any physical product" which, as has been pointed out, is hilarious when the whole purpose of the thread is a means to buy physical product.

Wringing your hands over how another completely unrelated thing went wrong once is irrelevant, and as I said, manufactured angst.

Don't want to back KS? No problem, but don't act like that isn't a you problem.



BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 03:38:55


Post by: BrianDavion


keep in mind CGL has been involved in making a table top game for awhile, have produced their own minis before and aren't going to lose their lisence anytime soon (bluntly put no one else wants it) so there's some important differances between the two.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 03:39:22


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Davor wrote:
Uhm. It has everything to do with BattleTech.
No it doesn't. It's not the same company. It's not the same IP. It's not the same people.

The only common denominator is Kickstarter. I expect delays, because I've had few KS's that didn't have delays, but your weird logic isn't.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 03:43:00


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Davor wrote:
Uhm. It has everything to do with BattleTech.
No it doesn't. It's not the same company. It's not the same IP. It's not the same people.

The only common denominator is Kickstarter. I expect delays, because I've had few KS's that didn't have delays, but your weird logic isn't.


I do think his concern is worth registering but for a bit of an odd reason. chances are a LOT of battletechers supported the Robotech kickstarter and once burned twice shy might apply and hurt their ability to get backers


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 03:57:27


Post by: H.B.M.C.


But it makes no sense to attach such a concern to this KS over any other KS.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 04:07:45


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But it makes no sense to attach such a concern to this KS over any other KS.


true but emotions often aren't logical. but yeah I'm hoping this does good. I might even back it.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 04:14:12


Post by: Elbows


I think there is a logical concern to be worried about everything after the KS.

So you get the game and play it with a buddy and he gets hyped...and then it's never in stock anywhere (i.e. typical CGL style). That's absolutely a consideration if you're buying into Battletech or "re-buying" into Battletech. The company has a gak track record of supporting their own products.

I don't think this means they'd shaft anyone on a Kickstarter, but follow up purchases are absolutely worth considering.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 04:20:39


Post by: solkan


As far as I can tell, Davor's saying "I got burned by a Kickstarter once, now I can't trust any other Kickstarter will deliver."

For me, I think I'm currently at four complete failures and two partial failures out of 86 projects. The total failures were:
* hardware project
* Spanish miniatures game
* Video game project that over-promised
* The Mekton Zero implosion
The partial failures:
* A miniatures foam project. -I- got all of my stuff, it sounds like not everyone else did.
* Robotech

There's one or two projects I could add to those lists, but I'm feeling charitable to those projects at the moment. And I don't even want to get started on some of the roller coaster rides that some how managed to successfully complete. I would demand hazard pay if a company I worked for got on Kickstarter, is all I'm saying.




BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 04:28:31


Post by: Kalamadea


The concern about not being able to get a physical copy isn't misplaced though. I didn't preorder a copy, so by the time I realized it had released and went to order it, it was out of stock. Everywhere. This was within a month of regular release and here it is 6 months later and still no restock. I was able to grab a beginner set w/ the 2 mechs, they're REALLY nice, but I can't find the main starter anywhere except for triple the price on ebay.

And as for kickstarter, the choice is to trust in a first time kickstarter run by people who have a history of being utterly unable to keep up with demand for their product, or wait for it to MAYBE eventually hit retail, in which you have a 2 week span to get it or it's gone for possibly years before a restock happens.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 05:06:04


Post by: BrianDavion


 solkan wrote:
As far as I can tell, Davor's saying "I got burned by a Kickstarter once, now I can't trust any other Kickstarter will deliver."



More or less it's not going to impact my decision, I never backed robotech, in fact the only kickstart I've ever done was the Battletech video game HBS put out (I took the dive there because HBS had an eistablished record of dlivering on kickstarter projects) but I can certainly understand how it might influence some people who might otherwise have backed this project


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 05:30:16


Post by: Justyn


The concern about not being able to get a physical copy isn't misplaced though. I didn't preorder a copy, so by the time I realized it had released and went to order it, it was out of stock. Everywhere. This was within a month of regular release and here it is 6 months later and still no restock. I was able to grab a beginner set w/ the 2 mechs, they're REALLY nice, but I can't find the main starter anywhere except for triple the price on ebay.


This is a continual concern for Catalyst games. Every time they release a Battletech box set it sells out. Then is unavailable for a very long time, often until the next actual box set is produced. There are customers at the local store who were unable to get their Pre-orders because there were not enough copies available to give to everyone who wanted them. It is difficult to keep any excitement for a game going when it is unavailable, or the product you are waiting for is delayed literally for years. ilclan has been in the works since 2002, pretty much since the 'dark age' arrived.

And as for kickstarter, the choice is to trust in a first time kickstarter run by people who have a history of being utterly unable to keep up with demand for their product, or wait for it to MAYBE eventually hit retail, in which you have a 2 week span to get it or it's gone for possibly years before a restock happens.


Kickstarter is always a risk. Its a greater risk when you involve a company with a history of shady money dealings and never ending delays. The kickstarter is a definite pass for me. But if I see them in the store for the day they will be available I'll probably purchase some for nostalgia sake.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 06:20:46


Post by: Stormonu


Has Catalyst done a kickstarter before? That's the big question. I know I'm not one to back anyone anymore who hasn't completed at least one to get their initial issues ironed out.

I've gotten burned on the Robotech fiasco as well, and didn't the Heavy Gear KS have its share of problems as well?

And straight up, Catalyst hasn't had the best track record with their latest BT starter sets either - it was forever and a day before the set became available in the first place, and I've seen signs it's hard to track a copy down until recently.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 07:20:31


Post by: dekinrie


I think the whole can't keep the starter instock is the reason why kickstarter
they didn't know how well the starter box would sell and only produced so many ,with kickstarter they can get real numbers and pad it out for further retail


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 07:48:47


Post by: Albertorius


 Kalamadea wrote:
The concern about not being able to get a physical copy isn't misplaced though. I didn't preorder a copy, so by the time I realized it had released and went to order it, it was out of stock. Everywhere. This was within a month of regular release and here it is 6 months later and still no restock. I was able to grab a beginner set w/ the 2 mechs, they're REALLY nice, but I can't find the main starter anywhere except for triple the price on ebay.

And as for kickstarter, the choice is to trust in a first time kickstarter run by people who have a history of being utterly unable to keep up with demand for their product, or wait for it to MAYBE eventually hit retail, in which you have a 2 week span to get it or it's gone for possibly years before a restock happens.

I haven't been able to get a copy in this side of the pond, and from the looks of it, it seems that I won't in the foreseeable future, either.

And if the only way to get CGL's stuff is to buy into a Kickstarter that will be shipped from the US... that will probably double costs, so I don't think I will bother. It's not like it's hard to print your own stuff nowadays, so...


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 09:24:06


Post by: ekwatts


Of course a kickstarter can fail.

If we're talking about possibilities, regardless of any other indicator of likelihood, I'd like to point out right now that I will be getting on a bus, going to my local store and buying the new Battletech products when they come out.

This means I am also at risk of my bus crashing, being mugged/murdered in a random incident at either end of the journey, or the product never being stocked in my local store at all.

Additionally, I might also:

- die
- lose my job and have no money
- inexplicably completely lose interest in miniature gaming after twenty years

Now, I've been incredibly negative about Catalyst Games and their inability to deliver over the years, but now that I've really had a proper think about the above, I realise just how underhand and irresponsible a company they are. Just as with the theoretical kickstarter success/failure we're discussing, I really need to know what Catalyst are going to do about the above issues I've listed.

This is worse than Battletech. WORSE.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 09:31:20


Post by: Albertorius


 ekwatts wrote:
Of course a kickstarter can fail.

If we're talking about possibilities, regardless of any other indicator of likelihood, I'd like to point out right now that I will be getting on a bus, going to my local store and buying the new Battletech products when they come out.

This means I am also at risk of my bus crashing, being mugged/murdered in a random incident at either end of the journey, or the product never being stocked in my local store at all.

Additionally, I might also:

- die
- lose my job and have no money
- inexplicably completely lose interest in miniature gaming after twenty years


Now, I've been incredibly negative about Catalyst Games and their inability to deliver over the years, but now that I've really had a proper think about the above, I realise just how underhand and irresponsible a company they are. Just as with the theoretical kickstarter success/failure we're discussing, I really need to know what Catalyst are going to do about the above issues I've listed.

This is worse than Battletech. WORSE.


..what, exactly, do you think they could do about those? Do you pose the same questions to every other Kickstarter?


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 09:55:23


Post by: Gitzbitah


For those of you still looking for a copy of Battletech A Game of Armored Combat, it's back in stock on Catalyst's website.

I understand Davor's concern. You probably aren't going to find Battletech in stock very many places, it's true. You'll probably have to order any additional mechs you want from Ironwind metals, Aries, or another online retailer because there's hundreds of the little dudes. With their new release products, it's likely to be hard to get them in a timely fashion if you don't preorder them. And I fully expect the Kickstarter to be significantly delayed based on Catalyst's usual delays- but I also am confident that they will deliver.

As long as we're tossing out games- the inability to get product when it's released totally killed the X-Wing miniatures game, right? And Kingdom Death's lack of store presence has destroyed it.

I say worry about what we know of Catalyst as a company, not expect Palladium level failures.

In the meantime, it seems the next wave of restocks are filtering out into the wild, so grab some more awesome mechs and party on!


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 11:26:20


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Stormonu wrote:
I've gotten burned on the Robotech fiasco as well, and didn't the Heavy Gear KS have its share of problems as well?
Now you're just picking Kickstarters that happen to have giant robots in them. That's not a good metric against which to base a decision. It's not like the subject matter of the KS has anything to do with it.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 11:38:28


Post by: Davor


Just like to make sure people understand where I am coming from, I am not telling anyone not to do the Kickstarter. For me, I don't trust it. I never done a Kickstarter but after reading some horror stories, I don't want to take the chance. That is on me. So why do some people think I am being unreasonable? It's my opinion. My money. I am not telling anyone what to do with their money. I don't want to take a chance. I don't take a chance on eBay either.

So for me, I can't get any product if my local stores don't carry anything or their distributors don't offer it. I am happy for people who purchase it. I am happy for people who can play it. No where did I say it was wrong or bad, just that it's not a good choice for me.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 12:20:23


Post by: Mmmpi


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Stormonu wrote:
I've gotten burned on the Robotech fiasco as well, and didn't the Heavy Gear KS have its share of problems as well?
Now you're just picking Kickstarters that happen to have giant robots in them. That's not a good metric against which to base a decision. It's not like the subject matter of the KS has anything to do with it.


The Heavy Gear one actually went fairly well. One of the unlocks didn't get released, but they credited everyone back for it, and offered the metal version of the same model at the KS price.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 12:31:56


Post by: Nurglitch


Giga Robo; GKR: Heavy Hitters; Pacific Rim: Extinction. Those are all successful giant robot KSs.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 13:22:20


Post by: Nostromodamus


Nurglitch wrote:
Giga Robo; GKR: Heavy Hitters; Pacific Rim: Extinction. Those are all successful giant robot KSs.


Also CAV from Reaper.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 15:03:58


Post by: Azreal13


 Albertorius wrote:
Spoiler:
 ekwatts wrote:
Of course a kickstarter can fail.

If we're talking about possibilities, regardless of any other indicator of likelihood, I'd like to point out right now that I will be getting on a bus, going to my local store and buying the new Battletech products when they come out.

This means I am also at risk of my bus crashing, being mugged/murdered in a random incident at either end of the journey, or the product never being stocked in my local store at all.

Additionally, I might also:

- die
- lose my job and have no money
- inexplicably completely lose interest in miniature gaming after twenty years


Now, I've been incredibly negative about Catalyst Games and their inability to deliver over the years, but now that I've really had a proper think about the above, I realise just how underhand and irresponsible a company they are. Just as with the theoretical kickstarter success/failure we're discussing, I really need to know what Catalyst are going to do about the above issues I've listed.

This is worse than Battletech. WORSE.


..what, exactly, do you think they could do about those? Do you pose the same questions to every other Kickstarter?


The batteries in your Ironometer need changing.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 15:43:53


Post by: infinite_array


Nurglitch wrote:
Giga Robo; GKR: Heavy Hitters; Pacific Rim: Extinction. Those are all successful giant robot KSs.


Giga-Robo's taken so long that, as a backer, I've lost all interest in it despite having bought the hyper forms of the base mechs. It'll probably go right to ebay when I get it.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 16:40:01


Post by: Mr Morden


I am looking to back - depending on cost and shipping.

Add to the bigpile of BattleTech stuff


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 18:56:49


Post by: dekinrie


I've seen a few copys of the starter I think in static games in Glasgow might be cheaper to order them than stateside


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 18:59:33


Post by: BrianDavion


 Albertorius wrote:
 ekwatts wrote:
Of course a kickstarter can fail.

If we're talking about possibilities, regardless of any other indicator of likelihood, I'd like to point out right now that I will be getting on a bus, going to my local store and buying the new Battletech products when they come out.

This means I am also at risk of my bus crashing, being mugged/murdered in a random incident at either end of the journey, or the product never being stocked in my local store at all.

Additionally, I might also:

- die
- lose my job and have no money
- inexplicably completely lose interest in miniature gaming after twenty years


Now, I've been incredibly negative about Catalyst Games and their inability to deliver over the years, but now that I've really had a proper think about the above, I realise just how underhand and irresponsible a company they are. Just as with the theoretical kickstarter success/failure we're discussing, I really need to know what Catalyst are going to do about the above issues I've listed.

This is worse than Battletech. WORSE.


..what, exactly, do you think they could do about those? Do you pose the same questions to every other Kickstarter?


sat·ire
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noun: satire
the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.
synonyms: mockery, ridicule, derision, scorn, caricature; More


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 19:04:41


Post by: Chillreaper


 Stormonu wrote:
Has Catalyst done a kickstarter before? That's the big question. I know I'm not one to back anyone anymore who hasn't completed at least one to get their initial issues ironed out.

I've gotten burned on the Robotech fiasco as well, and didn't the Heavy Gear KS have its share of problems as well?

And straight up, Catalyst hasn't had the best track record with their latest BT starter sets either - it was forever and a day before the set became available in the first place, and I've seen signs it's hard to track a copy down until recently.



The first Kickstarter that I ever backed was a CGL one; namely, The Duke.

I got all of the stuff that I pledged for and it's a great game.

However, there were a few snags along the way...

- Delay on fulfilment. Can't remember how large of a delay, pretty typical as far as Kickstarters go, so no big deal.

- Issues with supplying optional addons as a result of having to source different materials from different suppliers. The leather mat and laser etched storage box caused them a few issues, but they happened in the end. The big issue was the no show of the super swanky wooden storage box - that went pear-shaped and I think that refunds were issued.

I'm not worried about them doing a BT Kickstarter, because all of the components involved are things that they've done before with the new starter boxes. They've done minis, rulebooks, mapsheets, cards and boxes, so they should know where they're coming from.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 19:09:54


Post by: F8Hammer


 Gitzbitah wrote:
For those of you still looking for a copy of Battletech A Game of Armored Combat, it's back in stock on Catalyst's website.

I understand Davor's concern. You probably aren't going to find Battletech in stock very many places, it's true. You'll probably have to order any additional mechs you want from Ironwind metals, Aries, or another online retailer because there's hundreds of the little dudes. With their new release products, it's likely to be hard to get them in a timely fashion if you don't preorder them. And I fully expect the Kickstarter to be significantly delayed based on Catalyst's usual delays- but I also am confident that they will deliver.

As long as we're tossing out games- the inability to get product when it's released totally killed the X-Wing miniatures game, right? And Kingdom Death's lack of store presence has destroyed it.

I say worry about what we know of Catalyst as a company, not expect Palladium level failures.

In the meantime, it seems the next wave of restocks are filtering out into the wild, so grab some more awesome mechs and party on!


Thanks for the restock update, I just ordered it!


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 19:52:42


Post by: Mattlov


Catalyst also did a Shadowrun Kickstarter. I'm not a big SR fan so I didn't follow it.

I think this one will be okay. They aren't funding the art, they already have it. It's just getting funds for production. I SUSPECT they already have the Clan Box basically ready to go, possibly even with minis. I think a lot of this is to get the stretch goals into production and to build on the release of the main box sets.

Catalyst has already stated their new box sets are always going to be available. They have it set up so they can just tell their manufacturer to just print up a run. They are doing that so they can keep costs in hand, and not produce more than are needed. Excess production kills their bottom line. So while they might be out of stock for the moment (at some points) they are generally always ready to get another production run going. The delay comes from having to ship them from China.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/27 20:22:05


Post by: Albertorius


Azreal13 wrote:The batteries in your Ironometer need changing.

Very possibly

BrianDavion wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
 ekwatts wrote:
Of course a kickstarter can fail.

If we're talking about possibilities, regardless of any other indicator of likelihood, I'd like to point out right now that I will be getting on a bus, going to my local store and buying the new Battletech products when they come out.

This means I am also at risk of my bus crashing, being mugged/murdered in a random incident at either end of the journey, or the product never being stocked in my local store at all.

Additionally, I might also:

- die
- lose my job and have no money
- inexplicably completely lose interest in miniature gaming after twenty years


Now, I've been incredibly negative about Catalyst Games and their inability to deliver over the years, but now that I've really had a proper think about the above, I realise just how underhand and irresponsible a company they are. Just as with the theoretical kickstarter success/failure we're discussing, I really need to know what Catalyst are going to do about the above issues I've listed.

This is worse than Battletech. WORSE.


..what, exactly, do you think they could do about those? Do you pose the same questions to every other Kickstarter?


sat·ire
/ˈsaˌtī(ə)r/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: satire
the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.
synonyms: mockery, ridicule, derision, scorn, caricature; More


It's amazing that you can discern that it's satire so clearly with the one single post of someone in the whole thread that you went and found the definition .

I mean, how ironic would it be if it turned out he was serious, right?


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/28 02:02:56


Post by: Miguelsan


 Gitzbitah wrote:
For those of you still looking for a copy of Battletech A Game of Armored Combat, it's back in stock on Catalyst's website.

I understand Davor's concern. You probably aren't going to find Battletech in stock very many places, it's true. You'll probably have to order any additional mechs you want from Ironwind metals, Aries, or another online retailer because there's hundreds of the little dudes. With their new release products, it's likely to be hard to get them in a timely fashion if you don't preorder them. And I fully expect the Kickstarter to be significantly delayed based on Catalyst's usual delays- but I also am confident that they will deliver.

As long as we're tossing out games- the inability to get product when it's released totally killed the X-Wing miniatures game, right? And Kingdom Death's lack of store presence has destroyed it.

I say worry about what we know of Catalyst as a company, not expect Palladium level failures.

In the meantime, it seems the next wave of restocks are filtering out into the wild, so grab some more awesome mechs and party on!


Thanks for the pointer. I bit the S&H cost of 60$ to Japan and got one box on the way.

M.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/28 04:16:34


Post by: Justyn


For those of you still looking for a copy of Battletech A Game of Armored Combat, it's back in stock on Catalyst's website.


Given their stores track record I'd rather not gamble on placing that order. I still can't download half of what I've bought from them. They take around 6-9 months to respond at all. Why bother.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/28 05:51:14


Post by: Davor


Looks like my opinion got some people a boxset of BattleTech.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/28 09:58:07


Post by: Ancient Otter


According to release sheet on asmodee.co.uk, A Game of Armoured Combat is back in stock next week. How long though is anyone's guess...


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/28 10:03:12


Post by: YeOldSaltPotato


 Albertorius wrote:
 ekwatts wrote:
Of course a kickstarter can fail.

If we're talking about possibilities, regardless of any other indicator of likelihood, I'd like to point out right now that I will be getting on a bus, going to my local store and buying the new Battletech products when they come out.

This means I am also at risk of my bus crashing, being mugged/murdered in a random incident at either end of the journey, or the product never being stocked in my local store at all.

Additionally, I might also:

- die
- lose my job and have no money
- inexplicably completely lose interest in miniature gaming after twenty years


Now, I've been incredibly negative about Catalyst Games and their inability to deliver over the years, but now that I've really had a proper think about the above, I realise just how underhand and irresponsible a company they are. Just as with the theoretical kickstarter success/failure we're discussing, I really need to know what Catalyst are going to do about the above issues I've listed.

This is worse than Battletech. WORSE.


..what, exactly, do you think they could do about those? Do you pose the same questions to every other Kickstarter?


Having seen a few answer these, yeah it's actually completely doable. In theory you could establish a business continuity plan in the case of your incapacitation. Ie: Say this guy gets the money if he finishes my work for me.

It may be intended as satire, but frankly my company is a few unexpected heart attacks away from being screwed so it's something I've thought about a fair bit.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/28 10:30:08


Post by: balmong7


Justyn wrote:
For those of you still looking for a copy of Battletech A Game of Armored Combat, it's back in stock on Catalyst's website.


Given their stores track record I'd rather not gamble on placing that order. I still can't download half of what I've bought from them. They take around 6-9 months to respond at all. Why bother.


I just ordered my copy off of their website. Hope it's not as bad as your experience. I didn't see your post til after I clicked submit.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/28 15:12:05


Post by: ekwatts


 Albertorius wrote:
Azreal13 wrote:The batteries in your Ironometer need changing.

Very possibly

BrianDavion wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
 ekwatts wrote:
Of course a kickstarter can fail.

If we're talking about possibilities, regardless of any other indicator of likelihood, I'd like to point out right now that I will be getting on a bus, going to my local store and buying the new Battletech products when they come out.

This means I am also at risk of my bus crashing, being mugged/murdered in a random incident at either end of the journey, or the product never being stocked in my local store at all.

Additionally, I might also:

- die
- lose my job and have no money
- inexplicably completely lose interest in miniature gaming after twenty years


Now, I've been incredibly negative about Catalyst Games and their inability to deliver over the years, but now that I've really had a proper think about the above, I realise just how underhand and irresponsible a company they are. Just as with the theoretical kickstarter success/failure we're discussing, I really need to know what Catalyst are going to do about the above issues I've listed.

This is worse than Battletech. WORSE.


..what, exactly, do you think they could do about those? Do you pose the same questions to every other Kickstarter?


sat·ire
/ˈsaˌtī(ə)r/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: satire
the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.
synonyms: mockery, ridicule, derision, scorn, caricature; More


It's amazing that you can discern that it's satire so clearly with the one single post of someone in the whole thread that you went and found the definition .

I mean, how ironic would it be if it turned out he was serious, right?


I am being serious. I don't understand why others would assume I'm being "satirical" or "ironic" in suggesting that it's entirely reasonable to place unreasonable demands on CGL.

Just thought of another few contingencies: I might get hit by a meteorite or killed by a single punch by Mike Tyson. CGL really need to get their act together. Not once have they suggested a personal meteorite shield might be coming nor a security detail. They could make them stretch goals, at the very least. Davor was probably trying to be a bit more diplomatic about it, but we pretty much all know that the Robotech kickstarter that has nothing at all to do with Battletech might have worked out better had these kinds of contingencies been worked out beforehand.

As it is, CGL seem to be sleepwalking into exactly the same issues as Palladium.

Please excuse me, I have more to say but I can just about make out a heavily built guy wearing boxing gloves outside my door so I need to see what's going on.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/28 15:33:50


Post by: judgedoug


Man, I saw a six page discussion about the new Battletech releases and was cautiously optimistic until I realized it was five pages of "I'm sooo MAAADDD about the Clans!! sniff, sniff"

I feel really bad for Catalyst, what with their most vocal userbase actively turning away potential new players at every opportunity.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mattlov wrote:
It is a pretty Nova. Hopefully they can get the 3D print lines removed before production.


Err, that's not how that works. Plastics aren't made from molds made from low quality 3d prints of a cad design...


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/28 16:02:58


Post by: Kalamadea


 judgedoug wrote:
Man, I saw a six page discussion about the new Battletech releases and was cautiously optimistic until I realized it was five pages of "I'm sooo MAAADDD about the Clans!! sniff, sniff"


To be fair, it was more like 2 pages of "raaarg! Clans BAAAAAD!", 2 pages of whether BT is a boardgame or a minis game, and 2 pages kvetching about Catalyst not being able to keep products in stock

Personally, I love the clan stuff for the video games, but prefer the IS level 2 stuff for in game balance, it hits all the right notes for me but still lets you play with all the fun 3025 designes plus some extras


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/28 23:00:39


Post by: BrianDavion


 Kalamadea wrote:
 judgedoug wrote:
Man, I saw a six page discussion about the new Battletech releases and was cautiously optimistic until I realized it was five pages of "I'm sooo MAAADDD about the Clans!! sniff, sniff"


To be fair, it was more like 2 pages of "raaarg! Clans BAAAAAD!", 2 pages of whether BT is a boardgame or a minis game, and 2 pages kvetching about Catalyst not being able to keep products in stock

Personally, I love the clan stuff for the video games, but prefer the IS level 2 stuff for in game balance, it hits all the right notes for me but still lets you play with all the fun 3025 designes plus some extras



welp it's time to move this discussion onward then...


BLARGLE! JIHAD BLAH!


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/28 23:08:30


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 judgedoug wrote:
Man, I saw a six page discussion about the new Battletech releases and was cautiously optimistic until I realized it was five pages of "I'm sooo MAAADDD about the Clans!! sniff, sniff"

I feel really bad for Catalyst, what with their most vocal userbase actively turning away potential new players at every opportunity.
Are you kidding? Most of this has been saying that this KS will fail because the Robotech one failed, even though the two are unrelated.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/28 23:10:58


Post by: totalfailure


 judgedoug wrote:
Man, I saw a six page discussion about the new Battletech releases and was cautiously optimistic until I realized it was five pages of "I'm sooo MAAADDD about the Clans!! sniff, sniff"

I feel really bad for Catalyst, what with their most vocal userbase actively turning away potential new players at every opportunity.


Baloney. The vocal userbase is expressing an opinion about an aspect of a product. Feeling bad for a company that has poorly managed the IP is a little out of place, too.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/29 01:09:19


Post by: Gitzbitah


That's really surprising. I thought all the 3025 grognards who pop a vein in their forehead at the mention of pulse weaponry were all too busy swooning over the plastic Marauder.

It looks like this will have something for everyone- and I'd expect a Clan only and Inner Sphere only pledge, especially with the way the mechs are already packaged. Given how the Clan invasion was finally stopped- it's even probable there will be a Comguard Level II pack at some point in the campaign with Star League designs.

Now once the kickstarter comments start up, especially with stretch goals, you'll see vatbirth, freebirth, and all the other wonderful epithets that the two factions hold for each other.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/29 01:36:59


Post by: Tamwulf


I'm all in! They are producing my favorite 'Mechs in all plastic. , I might even start playing the game again!


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/06/29 15:08:03


Post by: Mattlov


 judgedoug wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Mattlov wrote:
It is a pretty Nova. Hopefully they can get the 3D print lines removed before production.


Err, that's not how that works. Plastics aren't made from molds made from low quality 3d prints of a cad design...


I know. That's how it should be done. I can also see Catalyst making resin molds from 3d prints for production, because it's the cheapest way to do it.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/01 03:19:08


Post by: Slayer Dragonwing


 Gitzbitah wrote:
That's really surprising. I thought all the 3025 grognards who pop a vein in their forehead at the mention of pulse weaponry were all too busy swooning over the plastic Marauder.


I'm not a 3025 grognard, but I am definitely swooning over the plastic Marauder. I have been waiting for these since some images were released. I think that was two years ago.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/01 06:26:38


Post by: BrianDavion


 Gitzbitah wrote:
That's really surprising. I thought all the 3025 grognards who pop a vein in their forehead at the mention of pulse weaponry were all too busy swooning over the plastic Marauder.

It looks like this will have something for everyone- and I'd expect a Clan only and Inner Sphere only pledge, especially with the way the mechs are already packaged. Given how the Clan invasion was finally stopped- it's even probable there will be a Comguard Level II pack at some point in the campaign with Star League designs.

Now once the kickstarter comments start up, especially with stretch goals, you'll see vatbirth, freebirth, and all the other wonderful epithets that the two factions hold for each other.


keep in mind the 3025 grognards may be vocal but they're a small aprt of the battletech community a very very small part. and the rest of the community laughs at them openly TBH.

they're the Btech equivilant of that guy whose never moved beyond 2nd edition D&D. and what 40k players in ten years will inevitaly think of the people hating the post gathering storm era


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/01 07:07:01


Post by: Albertorius


I prefer OG Battletech myself. It doesn't mean I begrudge anyone for preferring the Clans or whatever other era.

It doesn't mean I laugh at anyone else either.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/01 07:12:08


Post by: BrianDavion


 Albertorius wrote:
I prefer OG Battletech myself. It doesn't mean I begrudge anyone for preferring the Clans or whatever other era.

It doesn't mean I laugh at anyone else either.


honestly as I've gotten older I've found myself finding the 3025 era better and better. the game was in many ways more elegant with less options. (seriously 3025 tech levels makes for an amazingly intreasting game, if you've not played with 3025 tech since really learning the game, you owe it to yourself guys) and in many ways the story was more intreasting (Battletech's story has gotten positively infantile of late TBH) but yeah, by and large the people who refuse to accept the existance of the clans? not exactly a large part of the customer base


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/01 08:09:31


Post by: AndrewGPaul


I always preferred 3025 for that reason - I don't like too many options, as I usually end up ignoring most of them anyway. For the same reason I prefer 40k 2nd, 3rd and 8th editions without Codexes, X-Wing without all the upgrades and suchlike.

With 3025 (or "Level 1" as it used to be) I could remember most of the weapon stats in my head.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/01 08:54:35


Post by: Justyn


honestly as I've gotten older I've found myself finding the 3025 era better and better. the game was in many ways more elegant with less options. (seriously 3025 tech levels makes for an amazingly intreasting game, if you've not played with 3025 tech since really learning the game, you owe it to yourself guys) and in many ways the story was more intreasting (Battletech's story has gotten positively infantile of late TBH) but yeah, by and large the people who refuse to accept the existance of the clans? not exactly a large part of the customer base


There is a pretty huge difference between prefer 3025, and refuses to acknowledge anything after 3025. Personally I'm a fan of 3025 and Empires Aflame. But i'm not against the rest of the timeline, I just think it doesn't make any sense. I'll give Catalyst credit for trying to make sense of the completely f'd up dark age.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/01 09:10:36


Post by: BrianDavion


Justyn wrote:
honestly as I've gotten older I've found myself finding the 3025 era better and better. the game was in many ways more elegant with less options. (seriously 3025 tech levels makes for an amazingly intreasting game, if you've not played with 3025 tech since really learning the game, you owe it to yourself guys) and in many ways the story was more intreasting (Battletech's story has gotten positively infantile of late TBH) but yeah, by and large the people who refuse to accept the existance of the clans? not exactly a large part of the customer base


There is a pretty huge difference between prefer 3025, and refuses to acknowledge anything after 3025. Personally I'm a fan of 3025 and Empires Aflame. But i'm not against the rest of the timeline, I just think it doesn't make any sense. I'll give Catalyst credit for trying to make sense of the completely f'd up dark age.


yeah the dark age was absolutely stupid, it was an attempt to reset the timeline to make it more accessable. but battetech wasn't partiuclarly hard to access. and the storyline was one of the major selling points for investment.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/01 11:48:33


Post by: Iracundus


I actually am not such a fan of 3025, at least if you start getting into the actual 4th Succession War because of author/developer favoritism and the Yellow Peril themes of the white hat Western European themed states fighting off the "evil" black hat Asian themed states. A lot of the rebalancing of the Inner Sphere was a belated and ham fisted attempt to restore the status quo. You can't have a balkanized warring states era if one super-state looks set to steamroll everyone else and end the setting. Part of the whole theme of the Succession Wars for me is that it is a tragic unwinnable conflict. Can't have that if the developer favorite faction is about to win everything. And I long ago used to be a Davion fan. Now I'm more interested in Liao and Marik.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/01 12:01:59


Post by: Albertorius


Yeah, well, Stackpole's additions to the story were another thing altogether.

It's kind of like how many RPGers like L5R, but prefer the period before the Scorpion Clan Coup.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/01 12:35:06


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


I know this isn't quite the place to ask, but is the recent PC Battletech an actual adaptation of the tabletop rules, or just the typical "inspired by, and in the setting of" kind of videogame?


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/01 12:41:35


Post by: Albertorius


It's been designed by one of the actual fathers of the boardgame, but the system is more "inspired" or "what we'd do now, thirty years after" than the exact Battletech boardgame rules.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/01 12:49:40


Post by: YeOldSaltPotato


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I know this isn't quite the place to ask, but is the recent PC Battletech an actual adaptation of the tabletop rules, or just the typical "inspired by, and in the setting of" kind of videogame?


It's close enough I've enjoyed it, it's streamlined a bit, initiative is based on weight class, and heat has been significantly downplayed to a more reliably painful system than the possibly catastrophic one it is in the board game. Anything other than mech building, expect it to be chunked down to more reasonably understood proportions, presented through a reasonably clear hud.

But if you know battletech it won't be overly surprising, and it plays reasonably quick which is something battletech has never done.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/01 12:55:19


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


Thanks guys. Its been calling to me on Steam sale with its giant discount.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/01 12:57:09


Post by: Sterling191


YeOldSaltPotato wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I know this isn't quite the place to ask, but is the recent PC Battletech an actual adaptation of the tabletop rules, or just the typical "inspired by, and in the setting of" kind of videogame?


It's close enough I've enjoyed it, it's streamlined a bit, initiative is based on weight class, and heat has been significantly downplayed to a more reliably painful system than the possibly catastrophic one it is in the board game. Anything other than mech building, expect it to be chunked down to more reasonably understood proportions, presented through a reasonably clear hud.

But if you know battletech it won't be overly surprising, and it plays reasonably quick which is something battletech has never done.


If you're really keen on a closer to tabletop ruleset, there are a couple of very comprehensive conversion mods that get pretty damn close (and also add in a whole bunch of T2 and T3 units and equipment).


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/01 12:59:32


Post by: Mr Morden


YeOldSaltPotato wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I know this isn't quite the place to ask, but is the recent PC Battletech an actual adaptation of the tabletop rules, or just the typical "inspired by, and in the setting of" kind of videogame?


It's close enough I've enjoyed it, it's streamlined a bit, initiative is based on weight class, and heat has been significantly downplayed to a more reliably painful system than the possibly catastrophic one it is in the board game. Anything other than mech building, expect it to be chunked down to more reasonably understood proportions, presented through a reasonably clear hud.

But if you know battletech it won't be overly surprising, and it plays reasonably quick which is something battletech has never done.
They could realease a tabeltop version and it might sell quite well.

I loved the Warrior trilogy and a big fan of Both House Steiner (Esp Kartina/Melissa) and House Kurita.

What I found increasingly grating was the constant NAIS/Davion focus as the universe evolved.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/01 13:27:04


Post by: Formosa


I tried to resist... I failed, getting the whole lot


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/01 14:07:32


Post by: Albertorius


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Thanks guys. Its been calling to me on Steam sale with its giant discount.


I'd say go for it. You can also get a lot of mods that make it more like the boardgame (and add loads of stuff too, like Unseens).


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/01 14:30:27


Post by: Iracundus


 Mr Morden wrote:
YeOldSaltPotato wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I know this isn't quite the place to ask, but is the recent PC Battletech an actual adaptation of the tabletop rules, or just the typical "inspired by, and in the setting of" kind of videogame?


It's close enough I've enjoyed it, it's streamlined a bit, initiative is based on weight class, and heat has been significantly downplayed to a more reliably painful system than the possibly catastrophic one it is in the board game. Anything other than mech building, expect it to be chunked down to more reasonably understood proportions, presented through a reasonably clear hud.

But if you know battletech it won't be overly surprising, and it plays reasonably quick which is something battletech has never done.
They could realease a tabeltop version and it might sell quite well.

I loved the Warrior trilogy and a big fan of Both House Steiner (Esp Kartina/Melissa) and House Kurita.

What I found increasingly grating was the constant NAIS/Davion focus as the universe evolved.


Which was why the FedCom had to go. You can't have a mega faction with all the advantages of economic strength, NAIS tech renaissance, Davion military skill, vast territory, and numerical superiority. It would be difficult to imagine any other House making (and holding) significant territorial gains against such odds. Hence, we had the various plot gymnastics, holding the stupid ball, and culminating in a civil war that sadly still had the clear black vs white lines since we knew one side was led by a scheming matricidal psychopath.

It would have been more interesting IMO if they had spent more time and focus on the cultural and economic differences causing mutual resentment, to create a more believable fracturing and civil war. A few nods and mentions were made but it really was only in passing compared to the brother/sister soap opera. Steiners resenting the Davions who come in like warmongers, running roughshod over the existing social norms and coming off as arrogant carpetbaggers. Davions resenting having to bail out Steiner social general incompetence and resenting the rich Steiner industrial tycoons who are perceived as growing ever richer while worlds in the neglected Outback of Davion space exist in 19th century conditions.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/01 16:10:51


Post by: balmong7


This has been a fascinating thread for someone just getting into battletech.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/02 03:36:08


Post by: Miguelsan


Iracundus wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
YeOldSaltPotato wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I know this isn't quite the place to ask, but is the recent PC Battletech an actual adaptation of the tabletop rules, or just the typical "inspired by, and in the setting of" kind of videogame?


It's close enough I've enjoyed it, it's streamlined a bit, initiative is based on weight class, and heat has been significantly downplayed to a more reliably painful system than the possibly catastrophic one it is in the board game. Anything other than mech building, expect it to be chunked down to more reasonably understood proportions, presented through a reasonably clear hud.

But if you know battletech it won't be overly surprising, and it plays reasonably quick which is something battletech has never done.
They could realease a tabeltop version and it might sell quite well.

I loved the Warrior trilogy and a big fan of Both House Steiner (Esp Kartina/Melissa) and House Kurita.

What I found increasingly grating was the constant NAIS/Davion focus as the universe evolved.


Which was why the FedCom had to go. You can't have a mega faction with all the advantages of economic strength, NAIS tech renaissance, Davion military skill, vast territory, and numerical superiority. It would be difficult to imagine any other House making (and holding) significant territorial gains against such odds. Hence, we had the various plot gymnastics, holding the stupid ball, and culminating in a civil war that sadly still had the clear black vs white lines since we knew one side was led by a scheming matricidal psychopath.

It would have been more interesting IMO if they had spent more time and focus on the cultural and economic differences causing mutual resentment, to create a more believable fracturing and civil war. A few nods and mentions were made but it really was only in passing compared to the brother/sister soap opera. Steiners resenting the Davions who come in like warmongers, running roughshod over the existing social norms and coming off as arrogant carpetbaggers. Davions resenting having to bail out Steiner social general incompetence and resenting the rich Steiner industrial tycoons who are perceived as growing ever richer while worlds in the neglected Outback of Davion space exist in 19th century conditions.


I feel you, so many greys to explore and on the end the good vs evil takes control of the timeline. Same with how the Liao cannot get rid of crazies even if they are winning now.

M.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/02 03:55:26


Post by: Manchu


Just gimme my precious CJF!

<— unreconstructed Mongol


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/02 04:00:15


Post by: Mmmpi


Iracundus wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
YeOldSaltPotato wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I know this isn't quite the place to ask, but is the recent PC Battletech an actual adaptation of the tabletop rules, or just the typical "inspired by, and in the setting of" kind of videogame?


It's close enough I've enjoyed it, it's streamlined a bit, initiative is based on weight class, and heat has been significantly downplayed to a more reliably painful system than the possibly catastrophic one it is in the board game. Anything other than mech building, expect it to be chunked down to more reasonably understood proportions, presented through a reasonably clear hud.

But if you know battletech it won't be overly surprising, and it plays reasonably quick which is something battletech has never done.
They could realease a tabeltop version and it might sell quite well.

I loved the Warrior trilogy and a big fan of Both House Steiner (Esp Kartina/Melissa) and House Kurita.

What I found increasingly grating was the constant NAIS/Davion focus as the universe evolved.


Which was why the FedCom had to go. You can't have a mega faction with all the advantages of economic strength, NAIS tech renaissance, Davion military skill, vast territory, and numerical superiority. It would be difficult to imagine any other House making (and holding) significant territorial gains against such odds. Hence, we had the various plot gymnastics, holding the stupid ball, and culminating in a civil war that sadly still had the clear black vs white lines since we knew one side was led by a scheming matricidal psychopath.

It would have been more interesting IMO if they had spent more time and focus on the cultural and economic differences causing mutual resentment, to create a more believable fracturing and civil war. A few nods and mentions were made but it really was only in passing compared to the brother/sister soap opera. Steiners resenting the Davions who come in like warmongers, running roughshod over the existing social norms and coming off as arrogant carpetbaggers. Davions resenting having to bail out Steiner social general incompetence and resenting the rich Steiner industrial tycoons who are perceived as growing ever richer while worlds in the neglected Outback of Davion space exist in 19th century conditions.


You're not kidding about your last paragraph. I basically turned around and found my 'Space Austrians' were suddenly all putting on jackboots. Was quite a bit off-puttting. The following 90 years in game of getting smacked around by every faction didn't help either.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/02 04:06:08


Post by: BrianDavion


Iracundus wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
YeOldSaltPotato wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I know this isn't quite the place to ask, but is the recent PC Battletech an actual adaptation of the tabletop rules, or just the typical "inspired by, and in the setting of" kind of videogame?


It's close enough I've enjoyed it, it's streamlined a bit, initiative is based on weight class, and heat has been significantly downplayed to a more reliably painful system than the possibly catastrophic one it is in the board game. Anything other than mech building, expect it to be chunked down to more reasonably understood proportions, presented through a reasonably clear hud.

But if you know battletech it won't be overly surprising, and it plays reasonably quick which is something battletech has never done.
They could realease a tabeltop version and it might sell quite well.

I loved the Warrior trilogy and a big fan of Both House Steiner (Esp Kartina/Melissa) and House Kurita.

What I found increasingly grating was the constant NAIS/Davion focus as the universe evolved.


Which was why the FedCom had to go. You can't have a mega faction with all the advantages of economic strength, NAIS tech renaissance, Davion military skill, vast territory, and numerical superiority. It would be difficult to imagine any other House making (and holding) significant territorial gains against such odds. Hence, we had the various plot gymnastics, holding the stupid ball, and culminating in a civil war that sadly still had the clear black vs white lines since we knew one side was led by a scheming matricidal psychopath.

It would have been more interesting IMO if they had spent more time and focus on the cultural and economic differences causing mutual resentment, to create a more believable fracturing and civil war. A few nods and mentions were made but it really was only in passing compared to the brother/sister soap opera. Steiners resenting the Davions who come in like warmongers, running roughshod over the existing social norms and coming off as arrogant carpetbaggers. Davions resenting having to bail out Steiner social general incompetence and resenting the rich Steiner industrial tycoons who are perceived as growing ever richer while worlds in the neglected Outback of Davion space exist in 19th century conditions.


The most insulting thing about the fedcom civil war to me was they tried to claim it was a grey conflict. No it wasn't grey. Victor had the legal right to the throne, he'd not abdicated, Katherine was at best a regent attempting to sieze the throne well ehr brother was away (to compare her to John I of England would have been CHARITABLE) she also was a bloody mustache twirling villian. A better way to do the fedcom civil war and make it genuinely grey would have been To kill Victor off if he had died in the clan homeworlds (perhaps to use a historical analogy the Btech writers no doubt wouldn't have understood, make him General James Wolfe to Lincoln Oasis' Louis-Joseph Montcalm). That would have made Katherine, arguably the legitimate ruler (although possiable not due to fedsuns sucession laws) that could have made it a MUCH more belivable grey conflict.
The writers however didn't really pay attention to the social political aspects of the fedcom alliance.which is a problem with battletech as a whole of late. I mean the Capellans have become almsot a racist caractiture.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/02 04:10:17


Post by: Manchu


Decadent freebirther drama ...


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/02 04:12:28


Post by: BrianDavion


 Manchu wrote:
Decadent freebirther drama ...


I don't even want to think about what they did with the Jade Falcons.

"Hey the entire point of this faction is they're the staunch tradtionalists! Let's have an omnicidal lunitic run them"


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/02 04:14:57


Post by: Manchu


You say “omnicidal lunatic” like it’s a bad thing.

MALVINA FOREVER


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/02 04:16:17


Post by: BrianDavion


 Manchu wrote:
You say “omnicidal lunatic” like it’s a bad thing.

MALVINA FOREVER


sorry we can't be friends anymore

Seriously, I'm nooot a fan of what they did with her. Although there where some odd times when the character seemed to develop some depth beyond what is normal in battletech for characters like that. Battletech normally has chars like that so they can just be all "LOL they're crazy, so they lose!"


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/02 04:19:24


Post by: Manchu


I love her. She’s the logical conclusion of the long trajectory of the CJF storyline. My sincerest hope is that she becomes IlKhan and ushers in an unprecedented age of war.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/02 04:28:25


Post by: Miguelsan


 Manchu wrote:
Decadent freebirther drama ...

Hush you Clan Green Chicken!

M.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/02 07:13:18


Post by: Mmmpi


 Manchu wrote:
You say “omnicidal lunatic” like it’s a bad thing.

MALVINA FOREVER


What about Circe Clannister?


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/02 08:33:12


Post by: BrianDavion


 Mmmpi wrote:
 Manchu wrote:
You say “omnicidal lunatic” like it’s a bad thing.

MALVINA FOREVER


What about Circe Clannister?


Her name is Katherine.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/02 10:58:03


Post by: Mmmpi


Ah, I've got my pychotics mixed up again.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/02 11:07:27


Post by: Iracundus


 Mmmpi wrote:
Ah, I've got my pychotics mixed up again.


Psychopaths and/or narcissists. Neither Cersei nor Katherine are properly speaking psychotic, per the actual technical definition of the term.

The use of mentally unbalanced characters though as the villains is another tired pattern in BattleTech, and one that is unfortunately still continuing.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/02 14:29:01


Post by: Mmmpi


It's part of their recommended diet of lead paint chips.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/02 16:05:49


Post by: Nurglitch


You mean wall candy?


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/02 19:27:51


Post by: Chillreaper


 Manchu wrote:
Decadent freebirther drama ...


If the Inner Sphere was run on Clan rules things would have been a lot different after Victor's return from Strana Mechty...

Yvonne goes crying to Victor for totally stuffing things up.

Victor challenges Katherine to Trial of Grievance.

One cERPPC to the head.

Job done.

Seyla.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/02 19:32:07


Post by: Mr Morden


 Chillreaper wrote:
 Manchu wrote:
Decadent freebirther drama ...


If the Inner Sphere was run on Clan rules things would have been a lot different after Victor's return from Strana Mechty...

Yvonne goes crying to Victor for totally stuffing things up.

Victor challenges Katherine to Trial of Grievance.

One cERPPC to the head.

Job done.

Seyla.


Although Clan poltics does exist as well


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/02 19:34:36


Post by: BrianDavion


 Chillreaper wrote:
 Manchu wrote:
Decadent freebirther drama ...


If the Inner Sphere was run on Clan rules things would have been a lot different after Victor's return from Strana Mechty...

Yvonne goes crying to Victor for totally stuffing things up.

Victor challenges Katherine to Trial of Grievance.

One cERPPC to the head.

Job done.

Seyla.


well yeah but it wasn't Victor who went off to join the clans. I honestly NEVER understood what Vald saw in her.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/02 21:31:41


Post by: Chillreaper


BrianDavion wrote:
 Chillreaper wrote:
 Manchu wrote:
Decadent freebirther drama ...


If the Inner Sphere was run on Clan rules things would have been a lot different after Victor's return from Strana Mechty...

Yvonne goes crying to Victor for totally stuffing things up.

Victor challenges Katherine to Trial of Grievance.

One cERPPC to the head.

Job done.

Seyla.



well yeah but it wasn't Victor who went off to join the clans. I honestly NEVER understood what Vald saw in her.



Definitely the weirdest hook-up since Ninyu Kerai Indrahar and Cassie Suthorn.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/02 23:56:51


Post by: Mmmpi


Nurglitch wrote:
You mean wall candy?


Yup, that damn lostech paint!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrianDavion wrote:
 Chillreaper wrote:
 Manchu wrote:
Decadent freebirther drama ...


If the Inner Sphere was run on Clan rules things would have been a lot different after Victor's return from Strana Mechty...

Yvonne goes crying to Victor for totally stuffing things up.

Victor challenges Katherine to Trial of Grievance.

One cERPPC to the head.

Job done.

Seyla.


well yeah but it wasn't Victor who went off to join the clans. I honestly NEVER understood what Vald saw in her.


Maybe he liked blondes? Or he thought banging Phelan's cousin/relative was a revenge thing?


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/03 00:34:11


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Nurglitch wrote:
You mean wall candy?
That's a deep cut...


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/06 05:37:55


Post by: H.B.M.C.


So... bad news?


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/06 06:42:07


Post by: Elbows


Yes. Just means another 20 years of getting zero Robotech products in the US.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/06 06:52:24


Post by: BrianDavion


 Elbows wrote:
Yes. Just means another 20 years of getting zero Robotech products in the US.


well why actually produce stuff when you can just bully smaller companies that create anything remotely mech related in an attempt to get settlement money from them?

the first Lawsuit against FASA was... at least understandable. their later ones against Pihirana games and HG was just... absolutely unforgivable corperate bullying.



BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/06 07:37:37


Post by: Mmmpi


I thought that the last court ruling told them they couldn't do that anymore, they could only bring suit over direct infringement cases.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/06 08:02:46


Post by: Justyn


the first Lawsuit against FASA was... at least understandable. their later ones against Pihirana games and HG was just... absolutely unforgivable corperate bullying.


The first one against FASA was corporate bullying also. If you look at Harmony Gold's history, it is full of lawsuits. The last two dismissed with Prejudice (one against Hasbro). Japanese Court Ruled that Studio Nue owns the Intellectual rights to Macross, not Tatsunoko Productions who give harmony gold their license to distribute. Incidentally Fasa's licensing came from Twentieth Century Imports, who got it from ... Studio Nue.

I thought that the last court ruling told them they couldn't do that anymore, they could only bring suit over direct infringement cases.


Pretty much at this point they are only going to be able to sue over Black Market Copies of DVDs they make.

Yes. Just means another 20 years of getting zero Robotech products in the US.


This, this is what that extension means. I suspect Tatsunoko productions does not get royalties from any of the merchandise or this would be a stupid move on their part. They may be doing it to screw Studio Nue out of their potential earnings.

Oh well. Many of the redesigns are simply better than the originals. The Original Warhammer was one of the best designed Mecha ever in my opinion. The Catalyst redesign by Shimmering Sword just takes that to a new level. I hope I don't need to purchase 12 lances to get 12 models. I don't need 12 of the other mechs it will come with.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/06 08:16:59


Post by: BrianDavion


 Mmmpi wrote:
I thought that the last court ruling told them they couldn't do that anymore, they could only bring suit over direct infringement cases.


they did, I was being sarcasitic. if you read the judges ruling and read between the lines it's apparently pretty obvious he was PISSED with HG for wasting his time.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/06 11:32:45


Post by: Yodhrin


BrianDavion wrote:
 Gitzbitah wrote:
That's really surprising. I thought all the 3025 grognards who pop a vein in their forehead at the mention of pulse weaponry were all too busy swooning over the plastic Marauder.

It looks like this will have something for everyone- and I'd expect a Clan only and Inner Sphere only pledge, especially with the way the mechs are already packaged. Given how the Clan invasion was finally stopped- it's even probable there will be a Comguard Level II pack at some point in the campaign with Star League designs.

Now once the kickstarter comments start up, especially with stretch goals, you'll see vatbirth, freebirth, and all the other wonderful epithets that the two factions hold for each other.


keep in mind the 3025 grognards may be vocal but they're a small aprt of the battletech community a very very small part. and the rest of the community laughs at them openly TBH.

they're the Btech equivilant of that guy whose never moved beyond 2nd edition D&D. and what 40k players in ten years will inevitaly think of the people hating the post gathering storm era


>People who have an opinion about a piece of fiction/preference for a certain ruleset.
>People who laugh at other people for having an opinion on a piece of fiction/preference for a certain ruleset.

I know which group seems farcical to me, and it ain't the "grognards".


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/06 12:44:27


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Trust me man, it's the "grognards". And you're misrepresenting it completely.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/06 13:34:27


Post by: Yodhrin


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Trust me man, it's the "grognards". And you're misrepresenting it completely.


What's to misrepresent? Choosing not to play versions of D&D past 2nd doesn't make you a bad person. Disliking and ignoring post-Gathering Storm 40K fluff doesn't make you a bad person. Since those are supposedly the equivalents of BattleTech fans who prefer to discard post-3025, I can only conclude they're not bad people either.

Laughing at people for not sharing your own taste, however...


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/06 13:56:50


Post by: Gitzbitah


I'm sorry if I came across as harsh, my intention was only to amuse by playing up the stereotypes around those who exclusively play 3025.

Everyone has their favorite era, and the wonderful thing about Battletech is it's there for everyone. I love that you could pick it up after 20 years, and only have a few small interactions different in actual gameplay.

I enjoy playing in most eras- though I must admit I'm not a fan of the Dark Age. To me, with all the Battlemechs out there and available to pilot I want to try them all, not just the ones that were out at release. But hey, if I'm the bad guy that's pretty normal- my favorite faction are Word of Blake!


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/06 20:11:44


Post by: BrianDavion


my favorite faction are Word of Blake!


yeah ok we can't be friends anymore! j/k

*is pretty sure his favorite faction is obvious*


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/06 20:43:37


Post by: Albertorius


BrianDavion wrote:
my favorite faction are Word of Blake!


yeah ok we can't be friends anymore! j/k

*is pretty sure his favorite faction is obvious*


Is it the Draconis Combine?


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/07 00:40:28


Post by: Miguelsan


Capellan Confederation!

M.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/07 00:44:46


Post by: BrianDavion


 Miguelsan wrote:
Capellan Confederation!

M.


Don't make me "liberate" you.

Spoiler:




BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/07 01:17:10


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Yodhrin wrote:
What's to misrepresent? Choosing not to play versions of D&D past 2nd doesn't make you a bad person. Disliking and ignoring post-Gathering Storm 40K fluff doesn't make you a bad person. Since those are supposedly the equivalents of BattleTech fans who prefer to discard post-3025, I can only conclude they're not bad people either.
As I said, you are misrepresenting it completely.

The grogs aren't people who dislike post 3025 stuff. The grogs are people who believe that the game is forever ruined/tainted by anything from the Clans onwards, constantly denigrate it, and complain about it all the time, attacking and insulting anyone who dares to go beyond the 4th Succession War.

They're not you disliking Dark Imperium. They're something beyond that.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/07 01:41:35


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:
What's to misrepresent? Choosing not to play versions of D&D past 2nd doesn't make you a bad person. Disliking and ignoring post-Gathering Storm 40K fluff doesn't make you a bad person. Since those are supposedly the equivalents of BattleTech fans who prefer to discard post-3025, I can only conclude they're not bad people either.
As I said, you are misrepresenting it completely.

The grogs aren't people who dislike post 3025 stuff. The grogs are people who believe that the game is forever ruined/tainted by anything from the Clans onwards, constantly denigrate it, and complain about it all the time, attacking and insulting anyone who dares to go beyond the 4th Succession War.

They're not you disliking Dark Imperium. They're something beyond that.


to use a 40k comparison, this would be someone who on Dakka dakka goes onto every thread that so much as mentions space marines, and says how aweful primaris and the gathering storm is, implies anyone who likes Primaris, Yannari, Gulliman or anything else from gathering storm or post is a tasteless idiot, and anyone who uses Primaris marines is "playing wrong"


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/07 01:45:37


Post by: totalfailure


 H.B.M.C. wrote:

The grogs aren't people who dislike post 3025 stuff. The grogs are people who believe that the game is forever ruined/tainted by anything from the Clans onwards, constantly denigrate it, and complain about it all the time, attacking and insulting anyone who dares to go beyond the 4th Succession War.
They're not you disliking Dark Imperium. They're something beyond that.


More baloney served up. What’s toxic is ‘gatekeepers’ who feel they decide what constitutes ‘acceptable’ fandom. I am free to say Battletech fiction sucks from the Clans onward. You can disagree, but that doesn’t make you any more correct than me on an opinion, or me less of a fan. If you like the Clans, good for you. Sorry you can’t deal with it that some don’t, but that’s life.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/07 01:56:19


Post by: BrianDavion


 totalfailure wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:

The grogs aren't people who dislike post 3025 stuff. The grogs are people who believe that the game is forever ruined/tainted by anything from the Clans onwards, constantly denigrate it, and complain about it all the time, attacking and insulting anyone who dares to go beyond the 4th Succession War.
They're not you disliking Dark Imperium. They're something beyond that.


More baloney served up. What’s toxic is ‘gatekeepers’ who feel they decide what constitutes ‘acceptable’ fandom. I am free to say Battletech fiction sucks from the Clans onward. You can disagree, but that doesn’t make you any more correct than me on an opinion, or me less of a fan. If you like the Clans, good for you. Sorry you can’t deal with it that some don’t, but that’s life.


no ones gate keeping, I simply said by and large that kinda additude wasn't the main stream of the battletech fanbase


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/07 02:34:00


Post by: Fluid_Fox


No more monkey business, harmony Gold! I want my Marauder!


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/07 14:06:32


Post by: Miguelsan


BrianDavion wrote:
 Miguelsan wrote:
Capellan Confederation!

M.


Don't make me "liberate" you.

Spoiler:




Last time a Davion went liberating something you ended up saddled with Katherine…

M.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/08 02:41:46


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Look at all dat new stuff a'comin'!!!

1. The reprint of TechManual boasting the 35th anniversary vintage cover is now available.
2. Alpha Strike: Commander’s Edition has a street date of Wednesday, July 10, 2019 (honestly don't know what this product entails).
3. The BattleTech: A Game of Armored Combat boxed set is back in stock in the Catalyst Game Labs store, and will be making its way back into distribution to retailers as before.
4. Another reprint of the BattleTech Beginner Box is making its way to our U.S. fulfillment center.
5. A full re-order of all four previously-released mats has been placed. They will be available in the Catalyst Game Labs store and in retail stores by October.

And the KS is less than two weeks away!


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/08 11:04:56


Post by: balmong7


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Look at all dat new stuff a'comin'!!!

1. The reprint of TechManual boasting the 35th anniversary vintage cover is now available.
2. Alpha Strike: Commander’s Edition has a street date of Wednesday, July 10, 2019 (honestly don't know what this product entails).
3. The BattleTech: A Game of Armored Combat boxed set is back in stock in the Catalyst Game Labs store, and will be making its way back into distribution to retailers as before.
4. Another reprint of the BattleTech Beginner Box is making its way to our U.S. fulfillment center.
5. A full re-order of all four previously-released mats has been placed. They will be available in the Catalyst Game Labs store and in retail stores by October.

And the KS is less than two weeks away!


Just got my Game of Armored Combat box set in the mail the other day. Still trying to convince my friend to play it with me. lol.

The alpha strike thing sounds like a repackage of the two big alpha strike books that are already out.

Which book is the techmanual? I know the mechmanual is the core rules if you only want to use mechs, and Total Warfare is the core rules if you want to do the big armies.

I've got a collection of heroscape so the mats probably are skips for me.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/08 11:13:57


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Tech Manual is the book that has all the construction rules.



BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/08 12:47:59


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


Those neoprene mats look awesome and I didn't even know they existed, but like Balmong, I horded 7-8 core sets worth of Heroscape tiles for events like this.

Glad to see all those restocks, but i'm still waiting of the Game of Armored Combat box I ordered from Catalyst last week to even ship...


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/08 16:36:51


Post by: balmong7


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Those neoprene mats look awesome and I didn't even know they existed, but like Balmong, I horded 7-8 core sets worth of Heroscape tiles for events like this.

Glad to see all those restocks, but i'm still waiting of the Game of Armored Combat box I ordered from Catalyst last week to even ship...


It will probably ship end of this week/early next week. That was the delay on mine.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/08 16:39:14


Post by: Albertorius


Well, the one I bought this morning from "not CGL store" was sent already...


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/08 16:43:53


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


I'm going to regret having ordered directly, won't I?


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/08 16:49:16


Post by: totalfailure


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I'm going to regret having ordered directly, won't I?


That’s the business model Catalyst seems to work on - they seem utterly incapable of forecasting demand for stuff, and it goes through long stretches of unavailability. Then, six months to a year later, they maybe do a reprint, which is almost always grossly too few copies...wash, rinse, repeat until the next ‘new’ edition.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/08 17:54:54


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


If that is the case they either need to tell me the product is unavailable, or not take my order. The boxed set was listed as in-stock, but they've been "preparing my order" for seven days now.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/08 18:22:01


Post by: Nurglitch


Don't worry, the long period of waiting will prepare you for the experience of playing the game.

/I keed


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/08 19:05:04


Post by: balmong7


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
If that is the case they either need to tell me the product is unavailable, or not take my order. The boxed set was listed as in-stock, but they've been "preparing my order" for seven days now.


They aren't out of stock. They just take a while to ship. Mine took like 2 weeks. But I have it now. You will get yours as well.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/08 20:04:17


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Tech Manual is the book that has all the construction rules.



which can be one of the funnest parts of battletech. although most people use a design software for it (solaris skunkworks last I checked was the prefered choice)


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/08 20:28:47


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


BrianDavion wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Tech Manual is the book that has all the construction rules.



which can be one of the funnest parts of battletech. although most people use a design software for it (solaris skunkworks last I checked was the prefered choice)


I've been in hardcore Battletech research mode this week, and have found out Skunkworks is at least four years out of date and missing loads of options. Megamek Labs is a little tricky to use, and isn't the prettiest, but it is content complete.

Also as someone new to the game, a piece of advice i'd share is to not read/get the Tech Manual yet. I did and it is a monumentally cool, but utterly overwhelming exercise. Playing a bunch of games using stock mechs has made my ability to understand the subtleties the game much better, and I still don't feel bold enough to tackle the design process.

I've found the last week+ incredibly overwhelming as even an experienced wargamer, but also deeply fulfilling. First game i've mucked with in quite a while that I don't feel I instantly both get, and can figure out how to break. I love that, and just wish the models existed to do wysiwyg when I do eventually want to build my own stuff. I picked up a couple of those Ironwind metals, and they're f***ing hideous.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/08 21:28:57


Post by: BrianDavion


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Tech Manual is the book that has all the construction rules.



which can be one of the funnest parts of battletech. although most people use a design software for it (solaris skunkworks last I checked was the prefered choice)


I've been in hardcore Battletech research mode this week, and have found out Skunkworks is at least four years out of date and missing loads of options. Megamek Labs is a little tricky to use, and isn't the prettiest, but it is content complete.

Also as someone new to the game, a piece of advice i'd share is to not read/get the Tech Manual yet. I did and it is a monumentally cool, but utterly overwhelming exercise. Playing a bunch of games using stock mechs has made my ability to understand the subtleties the game much better, and I still don't feel bold enough to tackle the design process.

I've found the last week+ incredibly overwhelming as even an experienced wargamer, but also deeply fulfilling. First game i've mucked with in quite a while that I don't feel I instantly both get, and can figure out how to break. I love that, and just wish the models existed to do wysiwyg when I do eventually want to build my own stuff. I picked up a couple of those Ironwind metals, and they're f***ing hideous.


designing custom mechs is fun and all but ultimately I prefer stock mechs these days, I've found unless I'm specificly pushing a certain... character onto a mech customs all end up more or less similer.



BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/08 21:34:16


Post by: NewTruthNeomaxim


Are there any particularly good books for pure volume of stock mechs and their record sheets?


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/08 21:39:54


Post by: Stormonu


I think part of the problem with the Iron Wind models is the scale (1/285, I think). I much prefer the z-scale size of the Mechwarrior: Dark Age clicks models, as you can get more detail and they’re properly impressive in size, but not too big. Some of the models are actually decent looking too (Madcats, for example, but not the squatting Warhammer).


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/08 21:40:28


Post by: Voss


 totalfailure wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I'm going to regret having ordered directly, won't I?


That’s the business model Catalyst seems to work on - they seem utterly incapable

You can honestly stop there. Catalyst is a wreck.
They managed to produce the worst edition of Shadowrun to date (5th) and decided to up the complete flailing disaster with even worse decisions for 6th.

I was very unimpressed with the quality of figures in their first battletech box- the two clan mechs were OK, but the IS mechs were pretty rubbish when compared to the CityTech boxed set from decades ago.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/08 21:41:27


Post by: Siygess


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I picked up a couple of those Ironwind metals, and they're f***ing hideous.


Hah, yeah, a lot of those sculpts are really showing their age. Partly it's because they were constrained by the concept art sticking true to the old design ethos for so long, partly it was their slow adoption of modern sculpting techniques.. but most of all it is because the designs are not iterative. It would be like GW offering the entire range of space marines ever made, with a timeline that followed the release schedule. Not too many people would buy those Rogue Trader era guys if the new hotness Primaris marines were also for sale, but if you were playing games set in year 40,001 and the Rogue Trader models were the marines from that era.. what are you gonna do?

If you look at models like IWMs Super Griffin, Wraith X or the Marauder 4X, those are some really nice sculpts that hold up well alongside the new plastics. The problem is that they are simply newer sculpts representing newer designs that just weren't around in 3025. If you want a metal 3025 mech then it is probably a 15 year old model! That's why the new plastics are so cool - we end up with some 3025 stuff that is as good (or better) than the best IWM have put out.

Up until now I have been using a kitbash of two IWM models for a Thunderbolt 5SS and a Super Griffin as my Griffin 1N.. but now I don't have to anymore


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/08 22:05:48


Post by: BrianDavion


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Are there any particularly good books for pure volume of stock mechs and their record sheets?


kinda, Battletech splits it's mech books into two catagories, the first is the technical readout which is mostly fluff, then there is the records sheets books which contain the mechs described in the technical read out. Imagine if you would if warhammer 40k put their fluff from the codex in one book, and the datasheets to play in another book. (it says something about the culture of battletech as a whole when I note that TROs outsell record sheets books by a considerable margin)

now that said, with the mech software I mentioned, you can download it and then get saved files of all the various mechs out there. which tends to be what people prefer as then they can print off the sheet as needed, instead of having to dick around with a photocopier or whatever.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/08 22:09:17


Post by: Ghaz


 Siygess wrote:
If you look at models like IWMs Super Griffin, Wraith X or the Marauder 4X, those are some really nice sculpts that hold up well alongside the new plastics. The problem is that they are simply newer sculpts representing newer designs that just weren't around in 3025.

The Super Griffin was a prototype built in 3020 that never saw production. The problem with the 3025 miniatures is that 3025 is the first time period covered when the game was released back in the mid 80's and have never really had an update outside of the Reseen (which didn't really help as they exist alongside the old Unseens in canon). It was not until recently that CGL has gone back and retconned what those 3025 'mechs look like.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/09 00:20:59


Post by: H.B.M.C.


NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I've been in hardcore Battletech research mode this week, and have found out Skunkworks is at least four years out of date and missing loads of options. Megamek Labs is a little tricky to use, and isn't the prettiest, but it is content complete.
I still use Skunkworks as it's the closest to The Drawing Board, which was the good 'Mech builder back in the day.

I've not run into anything that I've needed that hasn't been in Skunkworks.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/09 04:28:00


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
I've been in hardcore Battletech research mode this week, and have found out Skunkworks is at least four years out of date and missing loads of options. Megamek Labs is a little tricky to use, and isn't the prettiest, but it is content complete.
I still use Skunkworks as it's the closest to The Drawing Board, which was the good 'Mech builder back in the day.

I've not run into anything that I've needed that hasn't been in Skunkworks.


yeah a lotta the tech introduced in 3150 is just uber unnesscary, introduced to introduce tech more then anything


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/09 07:13:24


Post by: Siygess


 Ghaz wrote:
 Siygess wrote:
If you look at models like IWMs Super Griffin, Wraith X or the Marauder 4X, those are some really nice sculpts that hold up well alongside the new plastics. The problem is that they are simply newer sculpts representing newer designs that just weren't around in 3025.

The Super Griffin was a prototype built in 3020 that never saw production. The problem with the 3025 miniatures is that 3025 is the first time period covered when the game was released back in the mid 80's and have never really had an update outside of the Reseen (which didn't really help as they exist alongside the old Unseens in canon). It was not until recently that CGL has gone back and retconned what those 3025 'mechs look like.


Right, that's what I said; It has never been an iterative design process. CGL never stopped advancing the timeline in.. 2005 and said "Ok, lets go back to 3025 and redo everything" with a similar visual reboot followed in 2015. They just kept on trucking. Good catch on the Super Griffin though. I remembered it was a prototype, but forgot it was technically pre 3025.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/09 08:40:42


Post by: BrianDavion


in fairness CGL has been prone to looking back (although strangly avoiding 3025), FASA however kept trucking forward for sure.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/09 09:15:56


Post by: Albertorius


Well, the box I ordered yesterday arrived today, so that's good.

The Battlemaster doesn't have a base, so that's less good.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/09 13:03:52


Post by: AndrewGPaul


BrianDavion wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Are there any particularly good books for pure volume of stock mechs and their record sheets?


kinda, Battletech splits it's mech books into two catagories, the first is the technical readout which is mostly fluff, then there is the records sheets books which contain the mechs described in the technical read out. Imagine if you would if warhammer 40k put their fluff from the codex in one book, and the datasheets to play in another book. (it says something about the culture of battletech as a whole when I note that TROs outsell record sheets books by a considerable margin)

now that said, with the mech software I mentioned, you can download it and then get saved files of all the various mechs out there. which tends to be what people prefer as then they can print off the sheet as needed, instead of having to dick around with a photocopier or whatever.


The Technical Readout books do contain all the game stats for every unit described in them - but you have to transfer that information to a blank record sheet yourself. In fact, since each unit entry describes several variants, you get the data for four or five record sheets on each unit entry in a TRO.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/10 00:35:24


Post by: Carlisimo


Yeah, what Siygess said.

I like IWM’s newer sculpts a lot. But I’m a new player. I’m still stuck in 3025, because it has a less-overwhelming quantity of mechs and weapons. Most of their 3025 models look like they’re original sculpts from the ‘80s. There’s no way I’m going to buy a Blackjack or Quickdraw, just based on how they look.

They did release a new Shadow Hawk that matches CGL’s new art. That might mean they’ll slowly redo all of the 3025 mechs. I hope so, because other than the horrible chipping I always get with metal minis, I prefer metal to the PVC plastic that CGL’s starter boxes use. (I’d prefer hard polystyrene above metal, but I can’t figure out how to clean up that PVC.)

You can sometimes use newer sculpts to represent older mechs. If you don’t care about WYSIWYG, use a Raven II as a Raven, or one of the newer primitive sculpts of old mechs, like the Swordsman, Rifleman, Longbow, or the upcoming Emperor. I bought a Cataphract -0X instead of the -1X. Looks oversized, but it’s an improvement.

There are some that seem impossible to find out about unless you’re really on top of late-era mechs, like the Lu Wei Bing that looks an awful lot like a MWO Victor. I wish I’d found out about it before buying a Victor.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/10 02:42:43


Post by: BrianDavion


 AndrewGPaul wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Are there any particularly good books for pure volume of stock mechs and their record sheets?


kinda, Battletech splits it's mech books into two catagories, the first is the technical readout which is mostly fluff, then there is the records sheets books which contain the mechs described in the technical read out. Imagine if you would if warhammer 40k put their fluff from the codex in one book, and the datasheets to play in another book. (it says something about the culture of battletech as a whole when I note that TROs outsell record sheets books by a considerable margin)

now that said, with the mech software I mentioned, you can download it and then get saved files of all the various mechs out there. which tends to be what people prefer as then they can print off the sheet as needed, instead of having to dick around with a photocopier or whatever.


The Technical Readout books do contain all the game stats for every unit described in them - but you have to transfer that information to a blank record sheet yourself. In fact, since each unit entry describes several variants, you get the data for four or five record sheets on each unit entry in a TRO.


maybe but it doesn't tell you, just for example, where the ammo for the autocanon is stored etc. so the info is insufficant to produce exact record sheets fo them.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/10 06:40:37


Post by: Albertorius


That's honestly never been a problem for us. We just put the ammo where it feels more logical (like in the same location as the weapon or the ones besides it).

And if we're "wrong" when comparing it with the official ones, who cares?


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/10 06:47:39


Post by: BrianDavion


 Albertorius wrote:
That's honestly never been a problem for us. We just put the ammo where it feels more logical (like in the same location as the weapon or the ones besides it).

And if we're "wrong" when comparing it with the official ones, who cares?


yup and a lotta people approuch that, that and record sheet programs are why TBH RS books themselves sell kinda poorly.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/10 06:52:45


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Albertorius wrote:
And if we're "wrong" when comparing it with the official ones, who cares?
Technically you can gain a slight advantage by weapon placement, ensuring equipment doesn't straddle critical location zones, putting ammunition away from the 3-4 results (given the average rolls on D6's) and so on.

The official record sheets are usually quite consistent however - Jump Jets are mounted as high as possible, then heat sinks, then weapons/equipment, then ammo.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 5022/11/10 07:10:49


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
And if we're "wrong" when comparing it with the official ones, who cares?
Technically you can gain a slight advantage by weapon placement, ensuring equipment doesn't straddle critical location zones, putting ammunition away from the 3-4 results (given the average rolls on D6's) and so on.

The official record sheets are usually quite consistent however - Jump Jets are mounted as high as possible, then heat sinks, then weapons/equipment, then ammo.


that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/10 07:36:03


Post by: Albertorius


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
And if we're "wrong" when comparing it with the official ones, who cares?
Technically you can gain a slight advantage by weapon placement, ensuring equipment doesn't straddle critical location zones, putting ammunition away from the 3-4 results (given the average rolls on D6's) and so on.

The official record sheets are usually quite consistent however - Jump Jets are mounted as high as possible, then heat sinks, then weapons/equipment, then ammo.

In a single die, the chances of showing one particular face are exactly the same as the chances of showing any other, about 16% each (and the chances of getting 1-3 or 4-6 are, of course, 50%), so I don't think it's that much of a problem, TBH.

But sticking more or less to the way things are usually done, as you said, tends to work pretty well.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/10 07:46:16


Post by: H.B.M.C.


BrianDavion wrote:
that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o
I'm ok with that. Some designs are poor because poor designs exist in real life. The K2 has Machine Gun ammo in the centre torso. Various Thor variants have 1 ton of LB-X ammo and 2 tons of missile ammo. It's just the way it is, and sometimes designs suck.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/10 07:49:38


Post by: Albertorius


I'm more irked with stuff like arm weapons being fed by ammo in the legs... that really does baffle my mind ^^


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/10 07:51:11


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o
I'm ok with that. Some designs are poor because poor designs exist in real life. The K2 has Machine Gun ammo in the centre torso. Various Thor variants have 1 ton of LB-X ammo and 2 tons of missile ammo. It's just the way it is, and sometimes designs suck.


and if every design was perfect the game would have maybe a dozen mechs tops.

Alhtough nothing justifies the ER PPC with 10 SHS designs


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/10 08:35:55


Post by: Albertorius


BrianDavion wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o
I'm ok with that. Some designs are poor because poor designs exist in real life. The K2 has Machine Gun ammo in the centre torso. Various Thor variants have 1 ton of LB-X ammo and 2 tons of missile ammo. It's just the way it is, and sometimes designs suck.


and if every design was perfect the game would have maybe a dozen mechs tops.

Alhtough nothing justifies the ER PPC with 10 SHS designs


Hey, maybe the designer was fond of saunas


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/10 08:36:52


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Ok, yeah, there are some baffling design choices like that (the Hatamoto-[X] line of 'Mechs spring to mind instantly).


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/10 08:42:30


Post by: Elbows


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o
I'm ok with that. Some designs are poor because poor designs exist in real life. The K2 has Machine Gun ammo in the centre torso. Various Thor variants have 1 ton of LB-X ammo and 2 tons of missile ammo. It's just the way it is, and sometimes designs suck.


What you've mentioned here is why I absolutely despise custom-made mechs by players. Because, like with all games, in Battletech there are just as many "mathhammer" opportunities to make an optimized mech. However doing so is player driven, and ignores the fake "reality" of the Battletech universe.

In arms production on any scale you'll have all the bs you find in modern arms manufacturing....

+Questionable contractors
+Poorly negotiated terms
+Shortcuts taken with or without permission
+Lack of specific materials
+Political issues/bickering preventing the use of premium equipment
+Poor workshop or factory conditions
+Lack of materials or equipment/ammunition to do the ongoing war effort, embargoes, planetary blockades
+Selfish pride that prevents a country/faction from using better equipment because they'd rather use self-produced gear
+Industrial espionage
+Changing contracts and plans due to political shifts or power vacuums
+Delayed projects which are sub-par by the time their released because they're so late
+Poor finances so you're buying used and abused goods from a larger nearby power
+Desperation in design because the war happened quick and you're making whatever you can, regardless of quality just to get it out the fething door!
etc. etc. etc.

It's this kind of stuff that is so often ignored in almost every wargame. "Ugh why is this designed that way? It's lame and would be better like this..."

Because that's just how it was fething designed, lol. Ask any soldier from a grunt in the field to a general if they're 100% happy with their equipment they're using? Not a single one in our world would say "Yep, everything is 100% and good to go!"

Every military weapon or procurement process has flaws...heaps of them. In the "god mode" that is controlling a wargame, we have the luxury of ignoring this all too often. I know there are some fan mod systems for building more realistic mechs, etc...but it's all the reasons above that I love the awkward and occasionally stupid mechs of 3025. It's why the Clan mechs, while fantastic, often feel cold. In many instances they're nearly perfectly designed for their roles and tasks.

It's actually the same mindset that makes me take sub-optimal armies in 40K. I like to imagine my armies fighting with their sub-par selected units - why? Because that's what was there. A perfect mathhammer force wasn't available to that field commander at that moment, so he's getting the job done with the units he has available. It's a mechanism which is just absent in waaaaay too many wargames.

/rant


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/10 08:51:08


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Not that custom designs can't be fun. Yes, it's very easy to load a 'Mech up with Clan Pulse Lasers and a Targeting Computer, but that gets old.

It's more fun to come up with weird ideas and see if you can make them work. Right now I've been experimenting with Improved Jump Jets and Partial Wings. The aim? Not to make the world's most amazing killing machine, but rather to see how far I can make a 'Mech fly and still have it be useful. I mean, can you imagine the look on an opponent's face when a 100-ton 'Mech jumps 7 hexes behind them?



BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/10 08:52:18


Post by: Albertorius


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ok, yeah, there are some baffling design choices like that (the Hatamoto-[X] line of 'Mechs spring to mind instantly).


Well, taking into account that they're fething Charger mods, I'd call them brilliant


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/10 08:56:30


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Not that custom designs can't be fun. Yes, it's very easy to load a 'Mech up with Clan Pulse Lasers and a Targeting Computer, but that gets old.

It's more fun to come up with weird ideas and see if you can make them work. Right now I've been experimenting with Improved Jump Jets and Partial Wings. The aim? Not to make the world's most amazing killing machine, but rather to see how far I can make a 'Mech fly and still have it be useful. I mean, can you imagine the look on an opponent's face when a 100-ton 'Mech jumps 7 hexes behind them?



yeah I long ago moved on from optimized designs to "designs with character and a story behind them"


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/10 08:59:02


Post by: Albertorius


It really is so much more fun that way


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/11 01:52:33


Post by: Ghaz


Spoiler:


I really like the new Executioner and Grendel.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/11 02:21:42


Post by: Unix


I’ll need to see what is offered during the Kickstarter, but right now it looks to me like it’s going to be a glorified pre-order. Considering that the other intro box is $80 with 8 mechs (before discount) $50 is really high for 5 mechs during a kickstarter by a company that has produced figures of mixed quality and has had logistics issues regarding supply and shipping in the past. I want to be excited about this, but it’s going to really need to make money sense. I don’t need them to go insane with what they offer, but I need it to be much closer to $5 a mech than $10.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/11 02:48:09


Post by: H.B.M.C.


Grendel hey? Interesting choice. Looks good too. The Man'O'War looks mean!

 Unix wrote:
I’ll need to see what is offered during the Kickstarter, but right now it looks to me like it’s going to be a glorified pre-order.
Like most miniature Kickstarters. *shrugs*


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/11 02:54:15


Post by: Unix


 H.B.M.C. wrote:


 Unix wrote:
I’ll need to see what is offered during the Kickstarter, but right now it looks to me like it’s going to be a glorified pre-order.
Like most miniature Kickstarters. *shrugs*


You’re right like most. I’ve done a couple dozen kickstarters in my time so I know how they break down and there are plenty I’ve passed on because they were effectively a 20% discount on retail. The language being used by this one so far suggests that the stretch goals will be purchasable options, as opposed to there being an “all in” selection with either kickstarter exclusive stuff (which I never really expected from this) or a rising discount as more stuff gets added.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/11 03:03:53


Post by: Mmmpi


 Albertorius wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o
I'm ok with that. Some designs are poor because poor designs exist in real life. The K2 has Machine Gun ammo in the centre torso. Various Thor variants have 1 ton of LB-X ammo and 2 tons of missile ammo. It's just the way it is, and sometimes designs suck.


and if every design was perfect the game would have maybe a dozen mechs tops.

Alhtough nothing justifies the ER PPC with 10 SHS designs


Hey, maybe the designer was fond of saunas


Don't question the bipedal onsen.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/11 04:42:18


Post by: BrianDavion


 Mmmpi wrote:
 Albertorius wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o
I'm ok with that. Some designs are poor because poor designs exist in real life. The K2 has Machine Gun ammo in the centre torso. Various Thor variants have 1 ton of LB-X ammo and 2 tons of missile ammo. It's just the way it is, and sometimes designs suck.


and if every design was perfect the game would have maybe a dozen mechs tops.

Alhtough nothing justifies the ER PPC with 10 SHS designs


Hey, maybe the designer was fond of saunas


Don't question the bipedal onsen.


.. I love how you instantly knew I was thinking of the Panther


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/11 06:45:24


Post by: Albertorius


Well, the 10K is kinda... notorious


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/11 07:20:39


Post by: Miguelsan


I hope you are not trying to disrespect a honored product of the Dragon, otherwise the guys from the ISF might want a word with you.

M.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/11 07:27:41


Post by: BrianDavion


 Miguelsan wrote:
I hope you are not trying to disrespect a honored product of the Dragon, otherwise the guys from the ISF might want a word with you.

M.

Panther 10K, CGR-1A1 the Daboku... yup the combine's certainly know for quality mech design!


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/11 07:38:54


Post by: Miguelsan


Let's not forget that my beloved CC dropped enough armor in the Charger to add a Large Laser. That's quality mech design too!

M.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/11 07:47:22


Post by: BrianDavion


 Miguelsan wrote:
Let's not forget that my beloved CC dropped enough armor in the Charger to add a Large Laser. That's quality mech design too!

M.


the fluff justification for that is hilarious. Apparently they use the design to punish dissidant soldiers...

yes they punish dissidant soldiers by giving them an ASSAULT MECH and deliberatly sabotoging it. This ladies and gentlemen is why the FedSuns won the 4th sucession war.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/11 07:57:09


Post by: Albertorius


Honestly, I love that kinda wacky stuff ^^


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/11 08:05:18


Post by: Miguelsan


BrianDavion wrote:
 Miguelsan wrote:
Let's not forget that my beloved CC dropped enough armor in the Charger to add a Large Laser. That's quality mech design too!

M.


the fluff justification for that is hilarious. Apparently they use the design to punish dissidant soldiers...

yes they punish dissidant soldiers by giving them an ASSAULT MECH and deliberatly sabotoging it. This ladies and gentlemen is why the FedSuns won the 4th sucession war.


Probably it was a Ceres Metals exec covering his ass when the marketed product failed to live to the expectations.

And that's also a great thing from the Btech fluff.

M.


BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/11 10:33:04


Post by: Gitzbitah


 Unix wrote:
I’ll need to see what is offered during the Kickstarter, but right now it looks to me like it’s going to be a glorified pre-order. Considering that the other intro box is $80 with 8 mechs (before discount) $50 is really high for 5 mechs during a kickstarter by a company that has produced figures of mixed quality and has had logistics issues regarding supply and shipping in the past. I want to be excited about this, but it’s going to really need to make money sense. I don’t need them to go insane with what they offer, but I need it to be much closer to $5 a mech than $10.


The value for the main box does look low compared to the A Game of Armored Combat. For now.

Something to consider is that those shots they posted do not show the back of the box, nor do they show the diecut cardboard sheet. Both of those are difficult to change if Catalyst has already developed the product, which I'm inclined to think they have, based off of the pictures of lances and Stars in retail packaging. So my conspiracy theory is that some of their planned stretch goals will be additions to the retail version of this box. I predict by the end it'll be up to 8 mechs to make the price per mech match the Game of Armored Combat.



BattleTech: Clan invasion Kickstarter live. @ 2019/07/11 10:42:00


Post by: Albertorius


Well, if they're going for "fieldable" units there shoud be either one or two stars in the box.