Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

zreef wrote:
as a side note, if you have never played BT with miniature rules ... you should they are a lot of fun

One of the things I enjoy about Classic Battletech is how unambiguous it is regarding a lot of contentious stuff that usually happen in miniature games (like LoS, exact ranges and movements and the like) due to the fact that it is played under the assumption that there is a board and hexes... removing them, for me, would be missing the point entirely of one of the big reasons why I like it.

I have lots of other miniature games that I can (and do) play before needing to use this one for something that it doesn't really excel in, IMHO. Plus, there's also Alpha Strike if I just want to play a fast-ish minis game with mech-like units.

 Albertorius wrote:
One of the things I enjoy about Classic Battletech is how unambiguous it is regarding a lot of contentious stuff that usually happen in miniature games (like LoS, exact ranges and movements and the like) due to the fact that it is played under the assumption that there is a board and hexes... removing them, for me, would be missing the point entirely of one of the big reasons why I like it.

That's one of the chief reasons I like the game. Everything is binary. There's no ambiguity of LOS/movement/range and all that other nonsense. You're either in LOS, of you aren't. In range, or not. The game has no "maybe" in those areas.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
One of the things I enjoy about Classic Battletech is how unambiguous it is regarding a lot of contentious stuff that usually happen in miniature games (like LoS, exact ranges and movements and the like) due to the fact that it is played under the assumption that there is a board and hexes... removing them, for me, would be missing the point entirely of one of the big reasons why I like it.

That's one of the chief reasons I like the game. Everything is binary. There's no ambiguity of LOS/movement/range and all that other nonsense. You're either in LOS, of you aren't. In range, or not. The game has no "maybe" in those areas.

Board games are great that way.

Here's a closeup that was put on Facebook of the Nova-

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B35pgfSKJGTwSXBzMGkzWWNkaW9IS0R3NUR6WXItekRXeW1R/view?usp=sharing

Sorry for the link, not sure how to get it posted otherwise.

Our intrepid sculptor claimed they were going to be coming for third party manufacturers by putting out enough plastic mechs to form the cores of many different forces.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/battletechgame/photos/?ref=page_internal

Well, that's night and day compared to the last plastic Nova. I can look at that and think "Hey, that's pretty cool. What's this game like?"

It is a pretty Nova. Hopefully they can get the 3D print lines removed before production.

Need to say Meh on the mini. Maybe it's too little too late. Or mostly is I can never buy the stuff so why even bother getting interested in BattleTech again.

Use to love BattleTech, but now, I know I won't be able to get my hands on any physical product so can't really care anymore. Still care since I check up on BattleTech but can't interested in buying anything knowing I don't even have a chance to buy it.

Sad.

Davor wrote:
Need to say Meh on the mini. Maybe it's too little too late. Or mostly is I can never buy the stuff so why even bother getting interested in BattleTech again.

Use to love BattleTech, but now, I know I won't be able to get my hands on any physical product so can't really care anymore. Still care since I check up on BattleTech but can't interested in buying anything knowing I don't even have a chance to buy it.

Sad.

This is hilarious because you’re posting this in a thread about a KS that literally gives you the chance to buy it.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

Davor wrote:
Need to say Meh on the mini. Maybe it's too little too late. Or mostly is I can never buy the stuff so why even bother getting interested in BattleTech again.

Use to love BattleTech, but now, I know I won't be able to get my hands on any physical product so can't really care anymore. Still care since I check up on BattleTech but can't interested in buying anything knowing I don't even have a chance to buy it.

Sad.

This is hilarious because you’re posting this in a thread about a KS that literally gives you the chance to buy it.

Robotech?

Good looking Nova, and yeah, quite an improvement over my old CityTech 2 Novas.

Davor wrote:
Robotech?

... has nothing to do with BattleTech.

Try again.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Good looking Nova, and yeah, quite an improvement over my old CityTech 2 Novas.

Davor wrote:
Robotech?

... has nothing to do with BattleTech.

Try again.

Uhm. It has everything to do with BattleTech. Many people did not get what they wanted through Kickstarter Robotech. Lots of people had to accept something else and get nothing else. So are you going to vouch that this will not happen with the BattleTech Kickstarter? Just because it's a Kickstarter doesn't mean people will get what they paid for. I just used Robotech as a perfect example. Person claimed people get product by ordering through Kickstarter and that is not the case.

Shall I bring up the old Dakka Robotech thread as proof or reminder?

So how am I wrong saying that just because it's a Kickstarter it's no guarantee of receiving what ordered. Maybe you or Nosromodamus will guarantee that everyone receives their product?

So what you're essentially saying is because one bad thing happened to do with giant robot games, then all giant robot games are forever cursed to fail in the same way?

Completely disregarding that the majority of KS, even those that encounter delays, do, in fact, deliver?

It's manufactured angst based on bs logic.

 Azreal13 wrote:
So what you're essentially saying is because one bad thing happened to do with giant robot games, then all giant robot games are forever cursed to fail in the same way?

Completely disregarding that the majority of KS, even those that encounter delays, do, in fact, deliver?

It's manufactured angst based on bs logic.

Where do you get that? Twisting my words? All I said it was no guarantee. Didn't say anything else. If I made an error in comment, then say what I did say, not what I never said or never intended. I never said Catalyst wasn't dependable. They can be very late on their orders but it's hard to get buy them since they never make enough.

Yes there is so many success on Kickstarter, but there are also lots of failures as well. So do you want to be in the group and guarantee everyone that places an order will get it? Again, I never did say people will not get what they ordered, all I said is, I wasn't able to buy any physical products from Catalyst lately. Just because it's on Kickstarter, I said it's no guarantee that I will receive anything.

So please, comment on what I did say, not what I didn't.

I was, perhaps take a moment to read what you wrote, rather than what you thought you did?

Why on earth would I guarantee anything? You can't even guarantee that your eBay purchase will show up. It's KS, you pay your money and take your chance, but the odds are generally in your favour if one is not a moron and doesn't back projects that show all the signs of being doomed to fail before they start.

But don't come into a thread lamenting how you "know (you) won't be able to get (your) hands on any physical product" which, as has been pointed out, is hilarious when the whole purpose of the thread is a means to buy physical product.

Wringing your hands over how another completely unrelated thing went wrong once is irrelevant, and as I said, manufactured angst.

Don't want to back KS? No problem, but don't act like that isn't a you problem.

keep in mind CGL has been involved in making a table top game for awhile, have produced their own minis before and aren't going to lose their lisence anytime soon (bluntly put no one else wants it) so there's some important differances between the two.

Davor wrote:
Uhm. It has everything to do with BattleTech.

No it doesn't. It's not the same company. It's not the same IP. It's not the same people.

The only common denominator is Kickstarter. I expect delays, because I've had few KS's that didn't have delays, but your weird logic isn't.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Davor wrote:
Uhm. It has everything to do with BattleTech.

No it doesn't. It's not the same company. It's not the same IP. It's not the same people.

The only common denominator is Kickstarter. I expect delays, because I've had few KS's that didn't have delays, but your weird logic isn't.

I do think his concern is worth registering but for a bit of an odd reason. chances are a LOT of battletechers supported the Robotech kickstarter and once burned twice shy might apply and hurt their ability to get backers

But it makes no sense to attach such a concern to this KS over any other KS.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But it makes no sense to attach such a concern to this KS over any other KS.

true but emotions often aren't logical. but yeah I'm hoping this does good. I might even back it.

I think there is a logical concern to be worried about everything after the KS.

So you get the game and play it with a buddy and he gets hyped...and then it's never in stock anywhere (i.e. typical CGL style). That's absolutely a consideration if you're buying into Battletech or "re-buying" into Battletech. The company has a gak track record of supporting their own products.

I don't think this means they'd shaft anyone on a Kickstarter, but follow up purchases are absolutely worth considering.

As far as I can tell, Davor's saying "I got burned by a Kickstarter once, now I can't trust any other Kickstarter will deliver."

For me, I think I'm currently at four complete failures and two partial failures out of 86 projects. The total failures were:
* hardware project
* Spanish miniatures game
* Video game project that over-promised
* The Mekton Zero implosion
The partial failures:
* A miniatures foam project. -I- got all of my stuff, it sounds like not everyone else did.
* Robotech

There's one or two projects I could add to those lists, but I'm feeling charitable to those projects at the moment. And I don't even want to get started on some of the roller coaster rides that some how managed to successfully complete. I would demand hazard pay if a company I worked for got on Kickstarter, is all I'm saying.

The concern about not being able to get a physical copy isn't misplaced though. I didn't preorder a copy, so by the time I realized it had released and went to order it, it was out of stock. Everywhere. This was within a month of regular release and here it is 6 months later and still no restock. I was able to grab a beginner set w/ the 2 mechs, they're REALLY nice, but I can't find the main starter anywhere except for triple the price on ebay.

And as for kickstarter, the choice is to trust in a first time kickstarter run by people who have a history of being utterly unable to keep up with demand for their product, or wait for it to MAYBE eventually hit retail, in which you have a 2 week span to get it or it's gone for possibly years before a restock happens.

 solkan wrote:
As far as I can tell, Davor's saying "I got burned by a Kickstarter once, now I can't trust any other Kickstarter will deliver."

More or less it's not going to impact my decision, I never backed robotech, in fact the only kickstart I've ever done was the Battletech video game HBS put out (I took the dive there because HBS had an eistablished record of dlivering on kickstarter projects) but I can certainly understand how it might influence some people who might otherwise have backed this project

The concern about not being able to get a physical copy isn't misplaced though. I didn't preorder a copy, so by the time I realized it had released and went to order it, it was out of stock. Everywhere. This was within a month of regular release and here it is 6 months later and still no restock. I was able to grab a beginner set w/ the 2 mechs, they're REALLY nice, but I can't find the main starter anywhere except for triple the price on ebay.

This is a continual concern for Catalyst games. Every time they release a Battletech box set it sells out. Then is unavailable for a very long time, often until the next actual box set is produced. There are customers at the local store who were unable to get their Pre-orders because there were not enough copies available to give to everyone who wanted them. It is difficult to keep any excitement for a game going when it is unavailable, or the product you are waiting for is delayed literally for years. ilclan has been in the works since 2002, pretty much since the 'dark age' arrived.

And as for kickstarter, the choice is to trust in a first time kickstarter run by people who have a history of being utterly unable to keep up with demand for their product, or wait for it to MAYBE eventually hit retail, in which you have a 2 week span to get it or it's gone for possibly years before a restock happens.

Kickstarter is always a risk. Its a greater risk when you involve a company with a history of shady money dealings and never ending delays. The kickstarter is a definite pass for me. But if I see them in the store for the day they will be available I'll probably purchase some for nostalgia sake.

Has Catalyst done a kickstarter before? That's the big question. I know I'm not one to back anyone anymore who hasn't completed at least one to get their initial issues ironed out.

I've gotten burned on the Robotech fiasco as well, and didn't the Heavy Gear KS have its share of problems as well?

And straight up, Catalyst hasn't had the best track record with their latest BT starter sets either - it was forever and a day before the set became available in the first place, and I've seen signs it's hard to track a copy down until recently.

I think the whole can't keep the starter instock is the reason why kickstarter
they didn't know how well the starter box would sell and only produced so many ,with kickstarter they can get real numbers and pad it out for further retail

 Kalamadea wrote:
The concern about not being able to get a physical copy isn't misplaced though. I didn't preorder a copy, so by the time I realized it had released and went to order it, it was out of stock. Everywhere. This was within a month of regular release and here it is 6 months later and still no restock. I was able to grab a beginner set w/ the 2 mechs, they're REALLY nice, but I can't find the main starter anywhere except for triple the price on ebay.

And as for kickstarter, the choice is to trust in a first time kickstarter run by people who have a history of being utterly unable to keep up with demand for their product, or wait for it to MAYBE eventually hit retail, in which you have a 2 week span to get it or it's gone for possibly years before a restock happens.

I haven't been able to get a copy in this side of the pond, and from the looks of it, it seems that I won't in the foreseeable future, either.

And if the only way to get CGL's stuff is to buy into a Kickstarter that will be shipped from the US... that will probably double costs, so I don't think I will bother. It's not like it's hard to print your own stuff nowadays, so...

Of course a kickstarter can fail.

If we're talking about possibilities, regardless of any other indicator of likelihood, I'd like to point out right now that I will be getting on a bus, going to my local store and buying the new Battletech products when they come out.

This means I am also at risk of my bus crashing, being mugged/murdered in a random incident at either end of the journey, or the product never being stocked in my local store at all.

Additionally, I might also:

- die
- lose my job and have no money
- inexplicably completely lose interest in miniature gaming after twenty years

Now, I've been incredibly negative about Catalyst Games and their inability to deliver over the years, but now that I've really had a proper think about the above, I realise just how underhand and irresponsible a company they are. Just as with the theoretical kickstarter success/failure we're discussing, I really need to know what Catalyst are going to do about the above issues I've listed.

This is worse than Battletech. WORSE.

 ekwatts wrote:
Of course a kickstarter can fail.

If we're talking about possibilities, regardless of any other indicator of likelihood, I'd like to point out right now that I will be getting on a bus, going to my local store and buying the new Battletech products when they come out.

This means I am also at risk of my bus crashing, being mugged/murdered in a random incident at either end of the journey, or the product never being stocked in my local store at all.

Additionally, I might also:

- die
- lose my job and have no money
- inexplicably completely lose interest in miniature gaming after twenty years

Now, I've been incredibly negative about Catalyst Games and their inability to deliver over the years, but now that I've really had a proper think about the above, I realise just how underhand and irresponsible a company they are. Just as with the theoretical kickstarter success/failure we're discussing, I really need to know what Catalyst are going to do about the above issues I've listed.

This is worse than Battletech. WORSE.

..what, exactly, do you think they could do about those? Do you pose the same questions to every other Kickstarter?