Miguelsan wrote: I hope you are not trying to disrespect a honored product of the Dragon, otherwise the guys from the ISF might want a word with you.
M.
An onsen is a traditional Combine tradition, even on the most hectic of battlefields, and I'm sure ISF would be disappointed that you would disparge any part of the great tradition tradition of traditional traditions.
Besides, if it wasn't supposed to be that way, why did they use single heat sinks and such an effective heating coil? (that discharge though...)
BrianDavion wrote: that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o
I'm ok with that. Some designs are poor because poor designs exist in real life. The K2 has Machine Gun ammo in the centre torso. Various Thor variants have 1 ton of LB-X ammo and 2 tons of missile ammo. It's just the way it is, and sometimes designs suck.
and if every design was perfect the game would have maybe a dozen mechs tops.
Alhtough nothing justifies the ER PPC with 10 SHS designs
Hey, maybe the designer was fond of saunas
Don't question the bipedal onsen.
.. I love how you instantly knew I was thinking of the Panther
Unix wrote: I’ll need to see what is offered during the Kickstarter, but right now it looks to me like it’s going to be a glorified pre-order. Considering that the other intro box is $80 with 8 mechs (before discount) $50 is really high for 5 mechs during a kickstarter by a company that has produced figures of mixed quality and has had logistics issues regarding supply and shipping in the past. I want to be excited about this, but it’s going to really need to make money sense. I don’t need them to go insane with what they offer, but I need it to be much closer to $5 a mech than $10.
The value for the main box does look low compared to the A Game of Armored Combat. For now.
Something to consider is that those shots they posted do not show the back of the box, nor do they show the diecut cardboard sheet. Both of those are difficult to change if Catalyst has already developed the product, which I'm inclined to think they have, based off of the pictures of lances and Stars in retail packaging. So my conspiracy theory is that some of their planned stretch goals will be additions to the retail version of this box. I predict by the end it'll be up to 8 mechs to make the price per mech match the Game of Armored Combat.
That’s a good catch and if you’re right that it winds up being a force on force box set (so probably 10 mechs or two stars) I would be all in on this. I’m just cautious when the preview language refers to a low cost pledge point, and lots of optional add ons. If it winds up being a the type of Kickstarter that is most common for board games nowadays, with expanding value to some base pledge level with additional buy ins that are there mostly to hook people with completionist impulses, I will be very happy and will blow a years hobby budget on it. This is the Kickstarter I have been waiting for since Kickstarter started kicking, so fingers crossed.
2 Stars of mechs would be an awful lot, and amazing if it happens. But there is another way- I may be just a simple freebirth, but I've heard the Clans like using Elementals mixed in with their mechs. What if they did 6 mechs plus 4 stands of plastic Elementals, or 8 and 2? That ought to keep the cost on Catalyst's side similar to AGOAC, while satisfying Clan lore.
I'd be really surprised if the expansion (Clan Invasion) has more mech models than the boxed set, especially since the individual mechs are so much more capable.
It’s possible but from the unit boxes that have been previewed already it seems like they are doing complete lance or star sized packs. A mixed Star with points of elementals or the like is possible, but isn’t really common in the background. A nova with 5 mechs and 5 elemental stands might be more likely. Obviously they’re going to do what they’re going to do so who knows. I can really only predict based upon what they’ve done so far. I hope they do elementals, armor and I would kill for an AeroTech release as part of this, but I haven’t heard anything beyond mechs at this point.
Doing a Nova would be an awesome way to add infantry into the base game, in a meaningful way, for new bloods.
I like the idea of layered expansions. First the basics, then to the standard rules, adding infantry. Then conventional vehicles and more assorted infantry. Then Aerospace and conventional aircraft. Then advanced/experimental units and terrain.
I do hope the value proposition offers more, as it seems like they over-value the worth of things like their paper mats. A 1.75" hex battle-mat, and a cheap $50 worth of Ebay Heroscape tiles, and any Battletech player is literally set for life.
So I’ve never played Battletech (aside from the Clix Mechwarrior back in college) but this upcoming Kickstarter has caught my eye. Any advice on where to get started?
Bob the Accountant wrote: So I’ve never played Battletech (aside from the Clix Mechwarrior back in college) but this upcoming Kickstarter has caught my eye. Any advice on where to get started?
Gitzbitah wrote: 2 Stars of mechs would be an awful lot, and amazing if it happens. But there is another way- I may be just a simple freebirth, but I've heard the Clans like using Elementals mixed in with their mechs. What if they did 6 mechs plus 4 stands of plastic Elementals, or 8 and 2? That ought to keep the cost on Catalyst's side similar to AGOAC, while satisfying Clan lore.
I'd be really surprised if the expansion (Clan Invasion) has more mech models than the boxed set, especially since the individual mechs are so much more capable.
Older boxed sets easily had 10+ mechs.
Though it would be kind of nice if they followed the old Battletech/Citytech sets, where the latter added in conventional units to the mix.
Bob the Accountant wrote: So I’ve never played Battletech (aside from the Clix Mechwarrior back in college) but this upcoming Kickstarter has caught my eye. Any advice on where to get started?
the basic boxed set is a good place to start. It has the introductory rules which is honestly the core rules, from there you can get the core rule book which gives you more weapons options etc. (the box set gives you what they refer to now as "introductory tech" and old timers like me still call "level 1" tech) you can also, and I do reccomend it, look into the novels. If BTW you're a fan of the Star Wars X-wing novels, you might be intreasted to note that Mike Stackpole has been writing Battletech novels for a looong time.
Bob the Accountant wrote: So I’ve never played Battletech (aside from the Clix Mechwarrior back in college) but this upcoming Kickstarter has caught my eye. Any advice on where to get started?
I honestly found Catalyst's "recommendations" overwhelming and not terribly clear...
As a first step, the current core set has enough to enjoy "Classic Battletech", mechs vs. mechs on hexes with nice crunchy rules. It also has some Alpha Strike cards if you want to play a hex-less, but crazy simplified version (that frankly is worse than the standalone game "CAV").
From there the REAL core book is called Total Warfare. Its the rules leap that goes from the Game of Armored Combat starter, and adds essentially all the other bits like infantry, tanks, etc... Its wild in how much it offers in one book, but clearly is intended to let you add the elements you want as you want them.
Finally the Technical Manual is 300 pages of madness... but awesome madness, with incredibly nuanced rules for building your own mechs and such. Its great, but ten-ish games in and I only now feel capable of reading it. :-p
For a series with about ten million intimidating books of still current and valid rules... almost tailor-made to scare away new players.... there's really only the two core books if you want to just play and get creative.
One thing it's worth stressing about Battletech's books is that 90% of the sourcebooks out there are pure fluff. once you have total warfare and tech manual you don't need to buy another book again. it's a fantastic CHEAP table top war game.
A higher dollar-per-mech value than the main starter box isn’t at all surprising, and it’s still on par with the beginner box. They’re mechs with high BV (points, if you’re new to BT), it’ll be a lower sales volume product (because it’s clans), and this time there are Kickstarter fees to pay.
I think it will be 5 'Mechs in the Clan box. Those 5 'Mechs would be a solid fight against the 8 out of AGoAC, provided the Inner Sphere 'Mechs aren't running Intro Tech.
Also, I don't think the expansions are retail ready. They don't look like packaging, they look like overlays, 'Mech images over a possible packaging idea. The "box" doesn't seem to have any depth to it.
I’m not sure what the price point per mech will be but I think they need to consider what they’re competing against. The mechs are about the size of a primaris space marine. Some a little bigger some a little smaller. You can get 10, multipiece primaris space marines, which are made with better material for $60 without a discount, and without having to wait and hope nothing goes wrong with the Kickstarter. Reaper miniatures has it’s almost annual Kickstarter where for $100 you can get a variation of this which is made out of the same material is all monopose, like the upcoming mechs.
Spoiler:
I would love for Battletech to make a comeback. It is probably my favorite game and is somewhere in the top 3 for sci-fi fiction for me. For them to crack beyond the dedicated gamer who is doing this for nostalgia though there will have to be value otherwise people will yawn and just fund whatever it is that Cool Mini is doing a Kickstarter for this month
BTech has done two boxes with over 20 'Mechs in each. People just complained about the quality.
BrianDavion wrote: One thing it's worth stressing about Battletech's books is that 90% of the sourcebooks out there are pure fluff. once you have total warfare and tech manual you don't need to buy another book again. it's a fantastic CHEAP table top war game.
TacOps is pretty good though. A lot of good rules in there.
Of course, that's why the alternate 'Mech-only rulebook exists.
H.B.M.C. wrote: BTech has done two boxes with over 20 'Mechs in each. People just complained about the quality.
BrianDavion wrote: One thing it's worth stressing about Battletech's books is that 90% of the sourcebooks out there are pure fluff. once you have total warfare and tech manual you don't need to buy another book again. it's a fantastic CHEAP table top war game.
TacOps is pretty good though. A lot of good rules in there.
Of course, that's why the alternate 'Mech-only rulebook exists.
ohh agreed. the core rulebooks are all rules heavy. although IIRC they do have fluff in em. But Battletech is very much a "ok here's the core. and now you can add this on" it's not perfect but it's a solid game and with a very low entry point. you can buy the box set, never make another purchase and your experiance'll be fine. Contrast this with a lotta games out there, and how often does the boxed set REALLY give you what you need to play the game? If you just have the core gamer you can sit down with someone whose been playing for 30 years and get a good game for the both of you in. Try to do that with.... any other table top game
The key with Battletech these days is very simple: We have a rule for that.
Want a simple, quick 2v2 fight? Easily done.
Want to do a kangaroo mounted infantry battle against dragon mounted infantry fighting on a wet navy battleship in the middle of a tornado made out of bugs? We can do that, too.
Got my box from Catalyst, took 10 days to get here and mostly it was due to Japanese Customs holding it for 4 days. So in my case Catalyst service was not bad.
BrianDavion wrote: that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o
I'm ok with that. Some designs are poor because poor designs exist in real life. The K2 has Machine Gun ammo in the centre torso. Various Thor variants have 1 ton of LB-X ammo and 2 tons of missile ammo. It's just the way it is, and sometimes designs suck.
The "standard" 3025 Marauder having one ton of AC/5 ammo in one side of the torso, and nothing else meant a critical hit to that side was a violently impressive one-shot kill.
BrianDavion wrote: that said sometimes ammo is placed in locations that make me go O.o
I'm ok with that. Some designs are poor because poor designs exist in real life. The K2 has Machine Gun ammo in the centre torso. Various Thor variants have 1 ton of LB-X ammo and 2 tons of missile ammo. It's just the way it is, and sometimes designs suck.
The "standard" 3025 Marauder having one ton of AC/5 ammo in one side of the torso, and nothing else meant a critical hit to that side was a violently impressive one-shot kill.
this is why the SMART great house replaced it with a Large Laser
I wish those classic mechs end up being sold as single units. I don't care if the end up being metal or plastic, but I want a ton of bug mechs for my collection.
From what I keep hearing that might not be possible because of the stupid "in perpetuity" thing that FASA organised with Ral Partha (which passed onto Iron Wind). So they CGL cannot make and sell BTech miniatures, but they can make expansions for their games that include miniatures.
All the previous Lance Packs were Alpha Strike expansions, as they came with rules and cards. Seems the same applies here.
People can gak on Catalyst for all sorts of things, but never forget that the original creators of BTech did a bunch of stupid gak that we still feel the impacts of today.
H.B.M.C. wrote: From what I keep hearing that might not be possible because of the stupid "in perpetuity" thing that FASA organised with Ral Partha (which passed onto Iron Wind). So they CGL cannot make and sell BTech miniatures, but they can make expansions for their games that include miniatures.
All the previous Lance Packs were Alpha Strike expansions, as they came with rules and cards. Seems the same applies here.
People can gak on Catalyst for all sorts of things, but never forget that the original creators of BTech did a bunch of stupid gak that we still feel the impacts of today.
FASA made a lot of idiot deals yeah, most of which involved selling rights instead of lisencing them.
H.B.M.C. wrote: From what I keep hearing that might not be possible because of the stupid "in perpetuity" thing that FASA organised with Ral Partha (which passed onto Iron Wind). So they CGL cannot make and sell BTech miniatures, but they can make expansions for their games that include miniatures.
All the previous Lance Packs were Alpha Strike expansions, as they came with rules and cards. Seems the same applies here.
People can gak on Catalyst for all sorts of things, but never forget that the original creators of BTech did a bunch of stupid gak that we still feel the impacts of today.
I knew that, I just wish that CGL gives IWM a license to the new sculpts to sell single units.
But they might be able to produce the new mechs that CGL are producing in plastic as single metal models under license. That depends on a bunch of things, obviously, but not least whether or not CGL would even want to do that since the R&D for those new miniature designs isn't cheap, and handing those designs over to IWM, however friendly they all are with each other, might not be worth it for a whole number of reasons.
I actually don't fully understand how the current license and agreement between the two companies works anyway. Was there ever anything stopping IWM from developing and selling redesigned/updated mechs in the style (though specifically not simply copies) of the MWO designs? Or could they just not be bothered because there might not have been much cash in doing so?
MWO designs are designs for a video game, and the rights for those are owned by (IIRC) Microsoft. So whilst people can make 3D printed versions of those 'Mechs (and not sell them, but people do because it's the Internet), another company cannot make them for BattleTech, because that's a different company.
This is why Catalyst has someone else designing their re-un-back-in-black-seen for the upcoming release, rather than just using MWO designs.
As I said, BTech rights are fething all over this place. It's exhausting.
FULLY FUNDED in just seven minutes, and the first wave of stretch goals cleared in about 20 minutes -- AMAZING! Thank you to everyone who has pledged, and everyone who will. We've got many more stretch goals to unveil - stay tuned!
I've said it elsewhere, but I'm hoping they limit the amount of stretch goals. I like it when project have definite goals in sight and don't let themselves get bogged down with "free" stuff or add-ons.
Stretch goals will rapidly fill the ranks with more Clan and Inner Sphere ’Mechs boasting all-new looks... the Warhammer and Phoenix Hawk will hot-drop from the Inner Sphere Battle Lance pack.
Yes I saw it got added in the second set of stretch goals. Now what am I going to do with extra Riflemen, Phoenix Hawks and Wasps. Okay more wasps is probably also good. Think I can get$5 each for the Riflemen and Hawks on ebay??
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I'm 100% in at Star Captain, but have to say these aren't really "stretch goals" per se... as we're unlocking the opportunity to buy more things.
As it stands, non-paper stretch-goals right now are literally one base of Battlesuits. :-p
I'm fine with that. I can get my Star Captain pledge and add in $20 for the third Lance pack. Less big physical stuff means less chances for CGL to screw up production.
Looks like they've met all of the Level III stretch goals and have added Level IV. At $350K we'll see the Fire Falcon, Arctic Cheetah, Hellion, Battle Cobra and Black Lanner. At $400K we'll see the Banshee, Grasshopper, Centurion and Hatchetman.
The IS stuff is falling off a bit, as so much of it is stuff we already have.
But hot damn, a plastic Hellion?
The Hellion is one of this "This shouldn't exist!" 'Mechs, a bit like the Ryoken in the "How is it so fast, armoured for its tonnage and still have so many guns that most IS Heavy 'Mechs weep???"
I'm a bit confused about the KS. If I want the IS lances I either order them as add ons or have to go to the Star Captain level and get saddled with a Clan Invasion box I didn't want to beging with.
Honestly I was thinking there would be a lower level pledge with just an Omni Star/IS mech lance option.
Miguelsan wrote: I'm a bit confused about the KS. If I want the IS lances I either order them as add ons or have to go to the Star Captain level and get saddled with a Clan Invasion box I didn't want to beging with.
Honestly I was thinking there would be a lower level pledge with just an Omni Star/IS mech lance option.
M.
If you just want the IS lances, then yeah, pledge at the $1 level and then just add the amount of money to equal the lance packs you want ($60, I think).
That's actually kind of tempting. Never been much of a Clan fan myself - I always liked the 3025-3039 era. I blame Stackpole and his Warrior trilogy.
Am I missing it or are there no images on the project page showing you what's in the actual pledge levels? Other than a quick image of the new set, I see mostly a long tedious list of SGs
Miguelsan wrote: I'm a bit confused about the KS. If I want the IS lances I either order them as add ons or have to go to the Star Captain level and get saddled with a Clan Invasion box I didn't want to beging with.
Honestly I was thinking there would be a lower level pledge with just an Omni Star/IS mech lance option.
M.
If you just want the IS lances, then yeah, pledge at the $1 level and then just add the amount of money to equal the lance packs you want ($60, I think).
That's actually kind of tempting. Never been much of a Clan fan myself - I always liked the 3025-3039 era. I blame Stackpole and his Warrior trilogy.
My main issue is that living in Japan I'm going to be hit badly by the shipping (60$ for just the AGoAC box!) So I'm keen to avoid things that don't add much value to my games like Omnis
I’m just gonna pick 5 IS Lance boxes for my pledge reward and live with whatever blind box Clanners I get to go with the main box set. Along with the IS add on that’ll be 50 IS mechs and 15 Clan.
I've never played Battletech the miniatures game, but have played a fair deal of the older computer games and Mech Commander and always really enjoyed them. I'm considering jumping in on this as I really like the Mechs and world, but feel a bit skeptical with how Catalyst has been with handling supply issues.
On a game related note, how is Battletech to play? I know it's an older system and have heard it can take a long time to play, but is it possible to play a Lance on Lance engagement in a couple hours? At a quick glance through the rules, Alpha Strike looks like it is a simplified version of the game, is it any fun?
They've met the Level IV stretch goals. At $450K we'll see Turkina, Kingfisher, Crossbow, Ebon Jaguar, and Huntsman OnmiMechs and at $500K we'll see Blackjack, Panther, Wolfhound and Jenner BattleMechs. Still no Ostroc or Ostsol
Ghaz wrote: They've met the Level IV stretch goals. At $450K we'll see Turkina, Kingfisher, Crossbow, Ebon Jaguar, and Huntsman OnmiMechs and at $500K we'll see Blackjack, Panther, Wolfhound and Jenner BattleMechs. Still no Ostroc or Ostsol
New IS versions or the ones currently in production. If it's the later it will be a disappointment but the former might end in delays b/c as usual sculpts or molds are not ready on time and other KS woes.
I'm slightly worried though by the 'complexity' of this KS - it reminds me of the earlier KS days where campaigns had multiple pledge levels and oodles of add-ons. IME this has always led to a logistical nightmare come fulfillment time.
Still backing this. Though I might limit my pledge stuff to the core offerings + whatever is in the earlier wave deliveries. I await their wave delivery schedule with great interest.
A lot of add-ons isn't a terrible thing. The latter pledge levels just seem to be of the "get more free gak" types, in some cases just doubling what you normally get. Only real exception is the retail pledge, which makes sense.
It's not one of those Kickstarters with a half dozen different factions, and different pledge levels give you access to more factions, and their bonuses, but not other ones, then faction-specific add-ons and all sorts of other nonsense. I'm thinking back to the Relic Wars KS, and everything like it since then.
Sabotage! wrote: I've never played Battletech the miniatures game, but have played a fair deal of the older computer games and Mech Commander and always really enjoyed them. I'm considering jumping in on this as I really like the Mechs and world, but feel a bit skeptical with how Catalyst has been with handling supply issues.
On a game related note, how is Battletech to play? I know it's an older system and have heard it can take a long time to play, but is it possible to play a Lance on Lance engagement in a couple hours? At a quick glance through the rules, Alpha Strike looks like it is a simplified version of the game, is it any fun?
Thanks for any feedback.
Battletech was the first table top game I seriously played and it's a fair bit of fun however it's very much a 1980s pen and paper game, designed around using a small number of units with a lot of detail etc a lance vs lance game can be a few afternoons of play, company vs company
(thats 12 mechs a side) you're looking at most of the day. anything much bigger and it's gonna be a big weekend event type deal.
Just backed at Star Captain level AND Miniature Market has the main box set back in stock. It's a good day to be a BTech fan!
Fingers crossed that the KS blowing up as it has doesn't make Catalyst go full-tilt stupid with stretch goals it can't ever fulfil....aw crap, it's already happening, isn't it? It's only day 1, stay positive, Kal, stay positive....
The Turkina, Nobori-nin (Huntsman) and Cauldron-Born (does anyone call it the Ebon Jaguar?) were IMHO three of the Clan OmniMechs most in need of an update.
Sabotage! wrote: I've never played Battletech the miniatures game, but have played a fair deal of the older computer games and Mech Commander and always really enjoyed them. I'm considering jumping in on this as I really like the Mechs and world, but feel a bit skeptical with how Catalyst has been with handling supply issues.
On a game related note, how is Battletech to play? I know it's an older system and have heard it can take a long time to play, but is it possible to play a Lance on Lance engagement in a couple hours? At a quick glance through the rules, Alpha Strike looks like it is a simplified version of the game, is it any fun?
Thanks for any feedback.
Battletech was the first table top game I seriously played and it's a fair bit of fun however it's very much a 1980s pen and paper game, designed around using a small number of units with a lot of detail etc a lance vs lance game can be a few afternoons of play, company vs company
(thats 12 mechs a side) you're looking at most of the day. anything much bigger and it's gonna be a big weekend event type deal.
Thanks for the heads up. If it takes a couple afternoons to play a lance on lance game, it is probably not the game for me. I really appreciate your help!
Sabotage! wrote: I've never played Battletech the miniatures game, but have played a fair deal of the older computer games and Mech Commander and always really enjoyed them. I'm considering jumping in on this as I really like the Mechs and world, but feel a bit skeptical with how Catalyst has been with handling supply issues.
On a game related note, how is Battletech to play? I know it's an older system and have heard it can take a long time to play, but is it possible to play a Lance on Lance engagement in a couple hours? At a quick glance through the rules, Alpha Strike looks like it is a simplified version of the game, is it any fun?
Thanks for any feedback.
Battletech was the first table top game I seriously played and it's a fair bit of fun however it's very much a 1980s pen and paper game, designed around using a small number of units with a lot of detail etc a lance vs lance game can be a few afternoons of play, company vs company
(thats 12 mechs a side) you're looking at most of the day. anything much bigger and it's gonna be a big weekend event type deal.
Thanks for the heads up. If it takes a couple afternoons to play a lance on lance game, it is probably not the game for me. I really appreciate your help!
I'm pretty sure he meant "hours," not afternoons. It's a crunchy game, but not that crunchy.
Ghaz wrote: The Turkina, Nobori-nin (Huntsman) and Cauldron-Born (does anyone call it the Ebon Jaguar?) were IMHO three of the Clan OmniMechs most in need of an update.
Insufferable MWO players call it an Ebon Jaguar.
The Cauldron-Born did get a second sculpt. I'm not sure which one I have actually...
Although I'd argue that the Linebacker is in more dire need of an update than any of them.
Sabotage! wrote: Thanks for the heads up. If it takes a couple afternoons to play a lance on lance game, it is probably not the game for me. I really appreciate your help!
I think he worded it badly. A Lance v Lance won't take a couple of afternoons. It's a few hours, like a regular 40K game. Company vs Company, that can take a few afternoons (less as you get more familiar with the rules).
Ghaz wrote: The Turkina, Nobori-nin (Huntsman) and Cauldron-Born (does anyone call it the Ebon Jaguar?) were IMHO three of the Clan OmniMechs most in need of an update.
Insufferable MWO players call it an Ebon Jaguar.
The Cauldron-Born did get a second sculpt. I'm not sure which one I have actually...
Although I'd argue that the Linebacker is in more dire need of an update than any of them.
The Linebacker's updated art doesn't look that bad...
Spoiler:
I've just never seen artwork (or a miniature for that matter) of the Turkina, Nobori-nin or Cauldron-Born that I like.
Ghaz wrote: The Turkina, Nobori-nin (Huntsman) and Cauldron-Born (does anyone call it the Ebon Jaguar?) were IMHO three of the Clan OmniMechs most in need of an update.
Insufferable MWO players call it an Ebon Jaguar.
The Cauldron-Born did get a second sculpt. I'm not sure which one I have actually...
Although I'd argue that the Linebacker is in more dire need of an update than any of them.
Sabotage! wrote: Thanks for the heads up. If it takes a couple afternoons to play a lance on lance game, it is probably not the game for me. I really appreciate your help!
I think he worded it badly. A Lance v Lance won't take a couple of afternoons. It's a few hours, like a regular 40K game. Company vs Company, that can take a few afternoons (less as you get more familiar with the rules).
the ebon jaguar is it's clan name, but that was only recently revealed so even most clan players call it a cauldron born. although I admit I like the name Ebon Jaguar. it sounds pretty awesome
Thanks for the clarification everyone! A couple hours for a Lance vs. Lance game is much more manageable. I might go in for Star Captain and add-on the base game. I saw my favorite mech (Atlas) is included in the one of the packs, hopefully with the new design all the other mechs are receiving.
To besmirch its name is to besmirch the glory of Clan Jade Falcon itself.
The Turkina B is a fething walking, jumping nightmare.
It is also not exactly the prettiest mech around
Not horrible, but not the prettiest
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: The standard box is avail as an add-on, and CGL have confirmed in the comments that the beginner's box will be avail in the pledge manager at the end.
[EDIT]: And we're at $499k.
There's also an add-on with just the mechs of the two current starter boxes, 10 mechs for $40, which is not too bad.
C'mon, it's me, the guy who owns every map sheet, tile set and battlemat in existence. Sometimes up to 6 copies of a single map. Of course I want the new mapsheets!
The new stretch goals are great. Look at these Lance/Star Packs:
Clan Command Star - Daishi, Ryoken, Shadow Cat, Koshi, Thor
Clan Heavy Striker Star - Man 'O War, Vulture, Loki, Dragonfly, Fenris
Clan Fire Star - Dasher, Uller, Nova Cat, Masakari
Clan Pursuit Star - Fire Falcon, Hankyu, Hellion, Battle Cobra, Black Lanner
Clan Heavy Battle Star - Turkina, Kingfisher, Crossbow, Cauldron-Born, Nobori-nin
Clan Support Star - Kodiak, Supernova, Marauder IIC, Warhammer IIC, Hunchback IIC
Inner Sphere Command Lance - Marauder, Valkyrie, Archer, Stinger
Inner Sphere Battle Lance - Phoenix Hawk, Warhammer, Rifleman, Wasp
Inner Sphere Direct Fire Lance - Atlas Marauder II, Orion, Crusader
Inner Sphere Heavy Lance - Banshee, Grasshopper, Centurion, Hatchetman
Inner Sphere Striker Lance - Blackjack, Panther, Wolfhound, Jenner
Inner Sphere Fire Support Lance - Whitworth, Trebuchet, Bombardier, Longbow
Well, if I know my Kickstarters, and I like to think that I do given how many we've had here, we'll get basically nothing for the next 26-27 days, and then a big ramp up right at the end.
In the meantime the conversation will just devolve into repetitious cries of "Communication!!!".
500,000 just got everybody some free mechs- 550 is a difficult to argue with Clan lance of Kodiak, Supernova, Warhamster IIC, Marauder IIc, and Hunchback IIc.
They also listened to cries of the IS being repeats- 600,000 unlocks the Fire Support Lance with Whitworth, Trebuchet, Bombardier and Longbow.
LoL, you are very well equipped, HBMC! I definitely agree about the Whitworth and Trebuchet, they were in the last generation starter, so they're pretty prolific- but I don't think I've ever seen a longbow or Bombardier hit the table. To me, they're quite exotic IS mechs.
I've never used my Bombardier. Actually, I've never used probably 2/3rds of the 'Mechs I own (creeping on about 400 now). I have used all three of my Ryokens at the same time. Multiple times. Oh man if the rando-pack got me another Ryoken I'd have a full Star of the damned things. What bliss!
Thing about the Whitworth is that, despite its rep, I actually kinda like it. I like the SRM6 version even more.
The Treb is... fine. I guess.
I have used a Longbow 12C in a game before. That's quite a nasty machine. No defensive abilities to speak of, but it puts tons of missiles downrange.
[EDIT]: At $600k they unlock Inner Sphere factions for the custom dice they're making. I can finally get some Davion dice.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I've never used my Bombardier. Actually, I've never used probably 2/3rds of the 'Mechs I own (creeping on about 400 now). I have used all three of my Ryokens at the same time. Multiple times. Oh man if the rando-pack got me another Ryoken I'd have a full Star of the damned things. What bliss!
Thing about the Whitworth is that, despite its rep, I actually kinda like it. I like the SRM6 version even more.
The Treb is... fine. I guess.
I have used a Longbow 12C in a game before. That's quite a nasty machine. No defensive abilities to speak of, but it puts tons of missiles downrange.
[EDIT]: At $600k they unlock Inner Sphere factions for the custom dice they're making. I can finally get some Davion dice.
I swear I saw some Davion dice in a shop while on a trip to Spain. Official product too.
And I'm not impressed by the upcoming IS designs maybe I'll double the number of Marauders instead.
To besmirch its name is to besmirch the glory of Clan Jade Falcon itself.
The Turkina B is a fething walking, jumping nightmare.
It is also not exactly the prettiest mech around
Not horrible, but not the prettiest
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: The standard box is avail as an add-on, and CGL have confirmed in the comments that the beginner's box will be avail in the pledge manager at the end.
[EDIT]: And we're at $499k.
There's also an add-on with just the mechs of the two current starter boxes, 10 mechs for $40, which is not too bad.
I prefer this version of the Turkina. While those old Tech Readout line artwork were "cool" in the 80's, I think Catalyst could really step it up with some new artwork.
I wish I could have backed at the "Star Colonel" level. I really wanted a Mechwarrior named "Tam Wulf" in the cannon. I bet Catalyst is kicking themselves for not doing this KS earlier. Far too many Neckbeards complain about the Clans and say the best BTech is the Succession Wars or 3025. Hah! I think this KS proves that more people are Clanners then Inner Sphere Freebirths.
I wish I could have backed at the "Star Colonel" level. I really wanted a Mechwarrior named "Tam Wulf" in the cannon. I bet Catalyst is kicking themselves for not doing this KS earlier. Far too many Neckbeards complain about the Clans and say the best BTech is the Succession Wars or 3025. Hah! I think this KS proves that more people are Clanners then Inner Sphere Freebirths.
I think it only proves that if you KS Battletech, people gives you money
But, to make my case for Battletech being a miniatures game:
Fine and I'll summarily destroy your argument.
Spoiler:
Battletech has rules for line of sight, terrain, etc. therefore it is a miniatures game.
No it's not. because those rules don't interact with the minis at all. the line of sight, terrain etc is entirely set by the hexmap the game is played on. yes you can play with a mini to mark your unit. but it's not required. you can play Battletech with monopoly markers, toe nail clippings etc. Ohh BTW D&D also has rules for terrain, line of sight etc. but D&D isn't a table top mini game.
Battletech has a points-based system for creating balanced forces therefore it is a miniatures game.
Absolutely irrelevant, using points as a balancing agent is hardly unique to Mini games. it's a feature of tabletop wargames yes, of which battletech is. but it's not a MINIATURES GAME.
Battletech has a huge range of (outdated) miniatures therefore it is a miniatures game
D&D also has a huge range of miniatures. therefore is D&D a minitures game? you seem to think RPGs are the only valid use of Minis in gaming outside of outright mini games. they're not.
The only reason an argument for it being "miniatures optional" as BrianDavion claims is because the game never dropped the holdover rules from 1st and 2nd edition. The game was, and continues to be crippled by that decision. But yeah, a 1000+ SKU model range is merely optional
the rules for running battletech as a miniatures game isn't even in the core rules. Yes using minis as markers is the norm. but that no more makes it a mini game then fething Monopoly is.I repeat the rules to run Battletech as a mini game ala warhammer 40k. with minis marking line of sight, actual terrain etc, is NOT in the core rule book. (nor should it be the scale on so many of the minis is aweful because they're not really designed with mini gaming ala warhammer or hoards etc in mind)
That mindset is why Battletech has been on life support for two decades. The game is a miniatures game that was never properly marketed, and its development was hindered by a refusal to drop the beer-and-pretzel-1980's-boxed-game mindset that it began with but from which it has long since moved on.
I'll agree on the poor marketing 100% (I've often said that the biggest screw up in battletech's history was the video games being called Mechwarrior and not Battletech) but the game isn't a minis game. and thats not a bad thing. I've seen people look at the cost involved in getting into mini games like 40k and walk away, Battletech by comparison is dirt cheap. but no Battletech isn't a mini game. I don't need minis to play it. this had lead to a very VERY differant approuch to the game from a mini game. Mini games make the bulk of their money from mini sales the rules are produced occasionally and editions make changes to push sales (see 40k) battletech meanwhile is very sourcebook driven. when GW started pushing out their codex supplements the reaction was pretty negitive, a buncha lore and 1 or 2 pages of rules. In battletech that's basicly the norm. it's a table top wargame but the game is developed almost more like a RPG then say... warhammer
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: Having LOS/terrain rules does not make you a miniatures game, especially when said rules are binary and are played out in 2 dimensions.
I don't see what "having points for balance" has anything to do with miniatures games.
And it has a range of miniatures that are 100% optional. You can play the game with coins.
Alpha Strike is a miniatures game. BattleTech is not.
as evidanced by where the rules to play battletech as a minis game are located (in Alpha strike) when your core rule book doesn't have the rule;s to play your game as a mini game. it's not a mini game
Miniature wargaming is a form of wargaming in which players enact battles between opposing military forces that are represented by miniature physical models. The use of physical models to represent military units is in contrast to other tabletop wargames that use abstract pieces such as counters or blocks, or computer wargames which use virtual models. The primary benefit of using models is aesthetics, though in certain wargames the size and shape of the models can have practical consequences on how the match plays out.
n. A type of wargame that uses small three-dimensional lead or plastic figurines to represent military units to represent tactical-level conflict. Often these games have a high level of simulation or re-creation. Often such a game is not played on a board with marked off with spaces, but directly on the table or on model terrain and the determination of distances to be moved or fired is done by using a measuring tape or stick. (Wings of War (even without physical miniatures) is a good example--the maneuver cards are used to measure the movement of each plane.
As for some poeple mentioning that the existence of paper/plastic standees mean something no longer gets to be a miniature game, I'd remind them that Warhammer 40k, Chainmaille Skirmish, and Heavy Gear all featured official standees either currently or in the past. Hell, some historical miniature games are designed to use them instead of 3d representations. It's a silly bar to set.
Nurglitch wrote: Seems pretty clear that the $1 level will let you purchase additional Lance or Star packs that get unlocked in the course of the campaign.
Yeah, but the "Clan Invasion Box" is not clearly "a Lance or Star pack that is unlocked in the course of the campaign." It might be construed as such, or might not, that isn't clear. At least not to me. Maybe it's just me though.
Nurglitch wrote: Seems pretty clear that the $1 level will let you purchase additional Lance or Star packs that get unlocked in the course of the campaign.
Yeah, but the "Clan Invasion Box" is not clearly "a Lance or Star pack that is unlocked in the course of the campaign." It might be construed as such, or might not, that isn't clear. At least not to me. Maybe it's just me though.
Actually it's not just you. I can't find any way of getting your hands on those five mechs except for the Invasion box. Maybe it's been addressed in the comments? Kickstarter will let you upgrade or downgrade so you can pledge a dollar to read the comments and then re-pledge to $0.
Nurglitch wrote: Actually it's not just you. I can't find any way of getting your hands on those five mechs except for the Invasion box. Maybe it's been addressed in the comments? Kickstarter will let you upgrade or downgrade so you can pledge a dollar to read the comments and then re-pledge to $0.
So, my guess is that you need the $50 level and then you can go the route of add-ons to get the mechs you want. It seems that there are basically 6 add-on Stars and 6 add-on Lances, which, would be $25 times 6 and $20 times 6, so, 150 in Clan add-ons and 120 in Inner Sphere add-ons. So, $320 for (one of) everything if you go that route. Contrast this with the $300 "Bloodname" package, which gives you "more mechs" but only half as many unique ones, since you get to choose 5 add-ons, then double them. Actually, the Bloodname package seems like terrible value, now that I think about it. That only gets one 10 add-ons, rather than 12...
Honestly, these pledge levels are not very intuitive, but I'm not a Kickstarter campaign expert. Seems to me that the "best" route, if one wants one of everything mini, is to get the $95 and then go with add-ons, as this will give you a $10 savings. At least I think so.
Zond wrote: So I always struggle a bit with Kickstarters that have a lot of options. What's the best way to get all the mechs currently?
Price per mech, the 95 dollar pledge is the best. Everything higher than that starts giving you Tshirts, your name ona grain of rice (battletech character) or other super cool prestige items.
With the unlocked 2 Salvage Boxes (which are potentially the only way besides the box set to get the Box Set Star) you get 17 mechs, dropping the price to 5.58 per mech. And that's for at least 15 unique mechs, 17 if you're even moderately lucky on your Salvage boxes.
I wanted to limit myself to 200, and looked at the 150 because I thought the doubled stars would be good for my kids- but I can still get more mechs just buying stars with the 95.
Edit- even assuming the 50 dollar and all add ons route, there's a very slight advantage to going 95. After all, Box Set +2 Stars is 100. The 95 pledge is Box Set + 2 Stars. So you'll save 5 dollars going that way.
Nurglitch wrote: Actually it's not just you. I can't find any way of getting your hands on those five mechs except for the Invasion box. Maybe it's been addressed in the comments? Kickstarter will let you upgrade or downgrade so you can pledge a dollar to read the comments and then re-pledge to $0.
So, my guess is that you need the $50 level and then you can go the route of add-ons to get the mechs you want. It seems that there are basically 6 add-on Stars and 6 add-on Lances, which, would be $25 times 6 and $20 times 6, so, 150 in Clan add-ons and 120 in Inner Sphere add-ons. So, $320 for (one of) everything if you go that route. Contrast this with the $300 "Bloodname" package, which gives you "more mechs" but only half as many unique ones, since you get to choose 5 add-ons, then double them. Actually, the Bloodname package seems like terrible value, now that I think about it. That only gets one 10 add-ons, rather than 12...
Honestly, these pledge levels are not very intuitive, but I'm not a Kickstarter campaign expert. Seems to me that the "best" route, if one wants one of everything mini, is to get the $95 and then go with add-ons, as this will give you a $10 savings. At least I think so.
I think the $10 difference is that two non-add on lances get those free $7 blind buy boxes (Those Salvage boxes) included for "If taken as a backer level reward ..."). Which someone might like, or recoil from in disgust, depending on how they feel about blind buy boxes.
As someone not going to go into this kickstarter, but generally interested in Battletech, the real question to me is "will all these potentially lovely plastic 'mechs be available to buy retail in the future"?
* if by "Available to buy" you mean listed on dozens of 3rd party sites as "Out of stock"
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also did CGL ever clearly state that doubling up literally means two of the exact same thing you picked? I only want a minimal selection of Clan mechs and frankly the core set and salvage boxes are going to give me more than enough 'invaders' to use as target practice.. but my current $150 level only seems worth it if an IS pack doubled to two means I could pick two *different* IS packs. Otherwise I might have to re-think things.
* if by "Available to buy" you mean listed on dozens of 3rd party sites as "Out of stock"
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also did CGL ever clearly state that doubling up literally means two of the exact same thing you picked? I only want a minimal selection of Clan mechs and frankly the core set and salvage boxes are going to give me more than enough 'invaders' to use as target practice.. but my current $150 level only seems worth it if an IS pack doubled to two means I could pick two *different* IS packs. Otherwise I might have to re-think things.
It appears to be straight duplicate sets. So for your $150 level, you'll get two boxes of whatever two stars/lances you select. I did the $95 pledge and am adding a bunch of stuff on. If they change the double boxes to just a normal "select X number of lances/stars", I think a bunch of folks would up their pledge level.
"Free with pledge" is one of those things that sounds good, but are a danger to the KS actually delivering. It's good they're covering their costs rather than over-promising.
Miguelsan wrote: I'm a bit confused about the KS. If I want the IS lances I either order them as add ons or have to go to the Star Captain level and get saddled with a Clan Invasion box I didn't want to beging with.
Honestly I was thinking there would be a lower level pledge with just an Omni Star/IS mech lance option.
M.
If you just want the IS lances, then yeah, pledge at the $1 level and then just add the amount of money to equal the lance packs you want ($60, I think).
That's actually kind of tempting. Never been much of a Clan fan myself - I always liked the 3025-3039 era. I blame Stackpole and his Warrior trilogy.
My main issue is that living in Japan I'm going to be hit badly by the shipping (60$ for just the AGoAC box!) So I'm keen to avoid things that don't add much value to my games like Omnis
M.
I'm lucky in that regard. My contract will be over by the time this delivers, assuming it's on time.
* if by "Available to buy" you mean listed on dozens of 3rd party sites as "Out of stock"
Jokes aside the point of the KS is precisely this, to build enough cash to bring out a new Clan box and still have enough to order reprints of the basic boxes when the stock runs low.
Zond wrote: So I always struggle a bit with Kickstarters that have a lot of options. What's the best way to get all the mechs currently?
Price per mech, the 95 dollar pledge is the best. Everything higher than that starts giving you Tshirts, your name ona grain of rice (battletech character) or other super cool prestige items.
I'm SUPER tempted to buy the BT character official name addon, even if it's just a throwaway mention in some Ebook. For over 20 years I've had my merc company lead by 2 characters depending on Era, the original mech pilot that started the company for succession wars games and his clansman protege who joined and takes over for clan wars era games. I have a similar captain in my head for all my Federation Commander games, that Captain became "official" (well, as official as any random MMO character anyways) as my Star Trek Online main character, I'd love to make the BT merc commanders "official" too, even if it's just for me.
I'm SUPER tempted to buy the BT character official name addon, even if it's just a throwaway mention in some Ebook. For over 20 years I've had my merc company lead by 2 characters depending on Era, the original mech pilot that started the company for succession wars games and his clansman protege who joined and takes over for clan wars era games. I have a similar captain in my head for all my Federation Commander games, that Captain became "official" (well, as official as any random MMO character anyways) as my Star Trek Online main character, I'd love to make the BT merc commanders "official" too, even if it's just for me.
They haven’t really given much in the way of details on how this will be implemented, especially at the lower levels. Frankly, I’d be surprised if it was anything other than something like on page 123 of 124 of the forthcoming Clan Baby Wipes supplement, there will be a passage ‘The following Clan Officers were present at the Batchall’. Followed by a list of Kickstarter backers. Of which half of it will be some variant of IP Freely, Amanda Huggandkiss, Mike Hunt, and xxxMechwarrior69xxx.
The MW4 Vulture is certainly nice, but it's a different 'Mech. I like that they then made it into a canon different 'Mech.
I mean, apparently that's also how we got the Mad Cat Mk.II. That design was going to be the Mad Cat in that game, but so many people were like "Yeah but where's the actual Mad Cat?" that they made it its own thing and put in a more traditional Mad Cat.
Zond wrote: So I always struggle a bit with Kickstarters that have a lot of options. What's the best way to get all the mechs currently?
Price per mech, the 95 dollar pledge is the best. Everything higher than that starts giving you Tshirts, your name ona grain of rice (battletech character) or other super cool prestige items.
I'm SUPER tempted to buy the BT character official name addon, even if it's just a throwaway mention in some Ebook. For over 20 years I've had my merc company lead by 2 characters depending on Era, the original mech pilot that started the company for succession wars games and his clansman protege who joined and takes over for clan wars era games. I have a similar captain in my head for all my Federation Commander games, that Captain became "official" (well, as official as any random MMO character anyways) as my Star Trek Online main character, I'd love to make the BT merc commanders "official" too, even if it's just for me.
Do you follow Blaine Lee Pardoe on Facebook? When he starts working on a new project, he always asks for readers who wish to be included in his novels. It might be a way to help your chances of making it into the Battletech Universe.
Alright. So for now, I'm just gonna go easy on spending since I still haven't actually played battletech yet. I backed at the $95 level. The Star Captain or whatever. I already own the Beginner Box and the Game of Armored Combat box.
People who know battltech better than me
Which Star/Lance's should I pick for my pledge? Which should I consider if I find funds to add in money for add-on purchases? Do any of these lances/stars include mechs I already own?
balmong7 wrote: Alright. So for now, I'm just gonna go easy on spending since I still haven't actually played battletech yet. I backed at the $95 level. The Star Captain or whatever. I already own the Beginner Box and the Game of Armored Combat box.
People who know battltech better than me
Which Star/Lance's should I pick for my pledge? Which should I consider if I find funds to add in money for add-on purchases? Do any of these lances/stars include mechs I already own?
it REALLY will depend on your play style. to be honest most of the lance and star packs contain a bit of a mix of mechs, that fills multiple styles of play. I'd be tempted to go with the Inner Sphere Battlelance pack, the rifleman and warhammer are solid heavy mechs with good long range firepower, well the wasp and pheonix hawk are fast and mobile lighter mechs excellent for skirmishing.
if you're intreasted in clan mechs the command star is legit solid. the direwolf, stormcrow and shadowcat all numbering among my favorites
balmong7 wrote: Alright. So for now, I'm just gonna go easy on spending since I still haven't actually played battletech yet. I backed at the $95 level. The Star Captain or whatever. I already own the Beginner Box and the Game of Armored Combat box.
People who know battltech better than me
Which Star/Lance's should I pick for my pledge? Which should I consider if I find funds to add in money for add-on purchases? Do any of these lances/stars include mechs I already own?
Well, what's your favorite mech? Most of them are very well balanced and flexible lances or stars.
The two I'd avoid are the Fire Support Lance, and the Berserker Lance. Not because either one is bad! Just because the Fire Support Lance has 2 dedicated Missile Boats, which lend themselves to a very particular playstyle. And the Berserker Lance, well, if you don't like being relatively ineffective until you can touch your enemy, then being hideously overpowered, it's not a lance for you.
Otherwise, go by looks! Check out Sarna for what they currently look like. The great thing about the Clan Stars is that most of them are Omnimechs- which really can do just about anything with the right configuration, so you don't need to know your playstyle before you buy them.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nostromodamus wrote: Latest video update says Salvage Packs are drawn from Clan Invasion box set, Clan Command Star, IS Command Lance and potentially the IS Battle Lance.
Interesting, as the description on the Campaign page says you get an omnimech...
I thought that was different from what we'd been told before as well. As of now though, looks like your salvage mech will be one of these designs.
Executioner
Nova
Grendel
Adder
Timber Wolf
Dire Wolf
Storm Crow
Shadow Cat
Mist Lynx
Summoner
Marauder
Valkyrie
Archer
Stinger
balmong7 wrote: Which Star/Lance's should I pick for my pledge?
This depends greatly on whether you're building a force of Inner Sphere 'Mechs, or you want to build an Op4 to fight against the IS 'Mechs you already have from the Beginner Box/Game of Armoured Combat.
You've taken the same level as me, so you get to choose two. If you're just going for more Inner Sphere 'Mechs, then the Inner Sphere Battle Lance is probably the most obvious pick. Phoenix Hawk, Warhammer, Rifleman, Wasp
The Warhammer is an excellent machine with an endless supply of very effective variants (and a few absolute dogs, but whatcha gonna do?). The Rifleman, like the Warhammer, is an absolute classic with some solid variants. The Phoenix Hawk is one of those medium 'Mechs that can do a lot more than it seems to be able to do on paper. It's a really solid design. The Wasp is... also a part of the Lance pack. Yep.
Then for your next choice, again assuming you're building an Inner Sphere force, either the Inner Sphere Direct Fire Lance or the Inner Sphere Heavy Lance.
In the case of the Direct Fire Lance, you've got an Atlas - one of the most iconic and quintessential BatteTech 'Mechs in existence. It is an assault 'Mech that truly lives up to its reputation. The Marauder II is another scary assault with tons of variants available. The Orion is one of the most solid heavy 'Mechs in the game. I have relied upon its combination of excellent firepower and robust durability on many occasions. Can't go wrong with an Orion. The Crusader is a bit of an oddity. It's a 'Mech that works well supporting other 'Mechs. It's got big banks of long ranged missiles and short-ranged missiles, so it can fight at any range. There are also lots of variants, including fun ones that just have tons of inaccurate but overwhelming Medium Ranged Missiles!
The Heavy Lance gives you a solid selection of very reliable 'Mechs, starting with the Banshee, once the biggest thing on the battlefield. Based upon the concept art they showed off, it's the slower up-gunned version that became very popular as the original Banshee was too fast and too undergunned for its role as an assault 'Mech. The basic up-gunned Banshee is very dangerous. The Centurion is one of those classic 50-tonners that excels at nothing in particular, but can reliably plug any gap in your lines. Latter variants actually get much faster and start getting very interesting upgrades to the basic Autocannon/Lasers/Missiles that it started off with. The Hatchetman hits things with a big metal axe. I don't think that requires much more explanation! And then there's the Grasshopper, easily one of my fav IS 'Mechs in the entire game. The Grasshopper is a durable heavy 'Mech with decent speed, excellent manoeuvrability thanks to its jump jets, and a nearly entirely energy based loadout that just punishes things at mid range. Like most IS 'Mechs there are a lot of variants, but the original Grasshopper remains a cut above a lot of things from that era, and is still useful in more modern battlefields.
Now, if you're building Op4 and want to get more Clanner stuff, then there are some very obvious choices.
Clan Command Star is the most obvious one, and is the first thing I'll be adding when the pledge manager comes around. The Daishi is still one of the most monstrous machines to have ever graced the mapsheets of BattleTech. Its default configuration had as many guns in each arm than most IS heavy 'Mechs had in total. It's not fast or subtle, but it is such a brutal 'Mech that will kill anything the IS has to offer. The Koshi is a zippy scout 'Mech that still manages to outgun anything that the IS can throw at it at that weight level simply due to the fact that the Clans are cheaters! The Thor is a solid heavy and one of the original Clan heavies that so scarred the Inner Sphere. It's fast beyond reason for a 70-tonner, can jump, and has a very nasty guns. The design is hampered by poor ammunition choices, and its fixed jump jets means it's early variants have a distinct lack of guns (especially compared to the 5-tons heavier Mad Cat, which is covered in 'em). Shadow Cat is an exceptionally fast sniper in its main configuration (it has a nice big Gauss Rifle!), and is a solid choice no matter which way you look at it.
And then there's the final 'Mech in that pack, the Ryoken. The Ryoken is the best 'Mech in the entire game and I will accept no arguments to the contrary. If there ever was a 'Mech that shows how much the Clans cheat compared to the Inner Sphere, it would be the Ryoken (and the Hellion). It's primary configuration has nothing but high damage laser weaponry and it is completely heat neutral. When it first appeared in the Inner Sphere no one understood how something so small could keep up that level of constant laser fire without heating up. Fast, well armoured, and with basically no bad variants (the Ryoken B is monstrous), the Ryoken is the best. Period.
For a second Clan Star, you might not want to get one, as with the 5 already in the Clan box you'll be at 10 of them vs the 10 IS 'Mechs you already have, and 10 vs 10 is not a good match up for the poor old Inner Sphere. So if you're building an Op4, I'd get the clan Command Star and one of the IS packs.
But if you do want a third Clan Star, then that choice is really between the Fire Star and the Heavy Battle Star. I won't go into the same detail as above, but let's just say that, for the Fire Star, the Dasher is an absolute speed demon with no armour to speak of, the Uller is a thin-skinned sniper at base and an ok Light 'Mech, the Cougar is a well armed light 'Mech that will outclass most IS light and medium 'Mechs, the Nova Cat is a scary "pocket assault 'Mech" from an era where the Clans stopped trying to be faster and just started bringing more guns on their heavies, and the Masakari is the Daishi's slightly smaller brother. For the Heavy Battle Star the Kingfisher is a giant brick wall of armour and weapons, easily one of the more durable Clan 'Mechs (and that's saying something), the Crossbow is a missile support 'Mech and suffers from the same issue a lot of Clan missile 'Mechs have in that all it's omni configs are just slight variations on lots of missiles, the Cauldron-Born is a well armed and fast mid-range heavy 'Mech with a good mix of high damage short and long ranged weaponry, the Nobori-nin is two 'Mechs in one, being both a medium 'Mech with more guns than most IS heavy 'Mechs but also being filled with electronics and weird secondary systems for fighting off infantry and incoming missiles. And lastly the Turkina, one of the few rivals to the Daishi's throne. The base Turkina can rip anything apart at range, and the variants only get better from there (the Turkina B is notoriously dangerous).
balmong7 wrote: Which should I consider if I find funds to add in money for add-on purchases?
Anything we mentioned above that you haven't already picked!
balmong7 wrote: Do any of these lances/stars include mechs I already own?
None of the Lance/Star packs, so far, have any duplicates. None of the Lance Packs have any of the 'Mechs from Beginner Box/Game of Armoured Combat. As it stands the only duplicate you should have is a pair of Wolverines, as one comes in both boxes you already own. I don't know why they did that, and I really wish they hadn't.
For a second Clan Star, you might not want to get one, as with the 5 already in the Clan box you'll be at 10 of them vs the 10 IS 'Mechs you already have, and 10 vs 10 is not a good match up for the poor old Inner Sphere. So if you're building an Op4, I'd get the clan Command Star and one of the IS packs.
That's exactly the kind of this I was hoping to hear.
Thanks for the super detailed write up (and everyone else who responded). I'll keep this post bookmarked for when reward time rolls around.
H.B.M.C is completely correct on the Ryoken. If you are new to the Clans, get that Command Star.
I am wavering between Bloodnamed and Star Colonel, but really, I'm just an old Smoke Jaguar fanboy who loved this game in collage. My buddies have never lost faith, and drag me into pick-up games occasionally.
This is my chance to get back into the game now that I actually can afford to field a Star or two, and bring back the glory of the early 1990s!
balmong7 wrote: Which Star/Lance's should I pick for my pledge?
This depends greatly on whether you're building a force of Inner Sphere 'Mechs, or you want to build an Op4 to fight against the IS 'Mechs you already have from the Beginner Box/Game of Armoured Combat.
You've taken the same level as me, so you get to choose two. If you're just going for more Inner Sphere 'Mechs, then the Inner Sphere Battle Lance is probably the most obvious pick. Phoenix Hawk, Warhammer, Rifleman, Wasp
The Warhammer is an excellent machine with an endless supply of very effective variants (and a few absolute dogs, but whatcha gonna do?). The Rifleman, like the Warhammer, is an absolute classic with some solid variants. The Phoenix Hawk is one of those medium 'Mechs that can do a lot more than it seems to be able to do on paper. It's a really solid design. The Wasp is... also a part of the Lance pack. Yep.
Then for your next choice, again assuming you're building an Inner Sphere force, either the Inner Sphere Direct Fire Lance or the Inner Sphere Heavy Lance.
In the case of the Direct Fire Lance, you've got an Atlas - one of the most iconic and quintessential BatteTech 'Mechs in existence. It is an assault 'Mech that truly lives up to its reputation. The Marauder II is another scary assault with tons of variants available. The Orion is one of the most solid heavy 'Mechs in the game. I have relied upon its combination of excellent firepower and robust durability on many occasions. Can't go wrong with an Orion. The Crusader is a bit of an oddity. It's a 'Mech that works well supporting other 'Mechs. It's got big banks of long ranged missiles and short-ranged missiles, so it can fight at any range. There are also lots of variants, including fun ones that just have tons of inaccurate but overwhelming Medium Ranged Missiles!
The Heavy Lance gives you a solid selection of very reliable 'Mechs, starting with the Banshee, once the biggest thing on the battlefield. Based upon the concept art they showed off, it's the slower up-gunned version that became very popular as the original Banshee was too fast and too undergunned for its role as an assault 'Mech. The basic up-gunned Banshee is very dangerous. The Centurion is one of those classic 50-tonners that excels at nothing in particular, but can reliably plug any gap in your lines. Latter variants actually get much faster and start getting very interesting upgrades to the basic Autocannon/Lasers/Missiles that it started off with. The Hatchetman hits things with a big metal axe. I don't think that requires much more explanation! And then there's the Grasshopper, easily one of my fav IS 'Mechs in the entire game. The Grasshopper is a durable heavy 'Mech with decent speed, excellent manoeuvrability thanks to its jump jets, and a nearly entirely energy based loadout that just punishes things at mid range. Like most IS 'Mechs there are a lot of variants, but the original Grasshopper remains a cut above a lot of things from that era, and is still useful in more modern battlefields.
Now, if you're building Op4 and want to get more Clanner stuff, then there are some very obvious choices.
Clan Command Star is the most obvious one, and is the first thing I'll be adding when the pledge manager comes around. The Daishi is still one of the most monstrous machines to have ever graced the mapsheets of BattleTech. Its default configuration had as many guns in each arm than most IS heavy 'Mechs had in total. It's not fast or subtle, but it is such a brutal 'Mech that will kill anything the IS has to offer. The Koshi is a zippy scout 'Mech that still manages to outgun anything that the IS can throw at it at that weight level simply due to the fact that the Clans are cheaters! The Thor is a solid heavy and one of the original Clan heavies that so scarred the Inner Sphere. It's fast beyond reason for a 70-tonner, can jump, and has a very nasty guns. The design is hampered by poor ammunition choices, and its fixed jump jets means it's early variants have a distinct lack of guns (especially compared to the 5-tons heavier Mad Cat, which is covered in 'em). Shadow Cat is an exceptionally fast sniper in its main configuration (it has a nice big Gauss Rifle!), and is a solid choice no matter which way you look at it.
And then there's the final 'Mech in that pack, the Ryoken. The Ryoken is the best 'Mech in the entire game and I will accept no arguments to the contrary. If there ever was a 'Mech that shows how much the Clans cheat compared to the Inner Sphere, it would be the Ryoken (and the Hellion). It's primary configuration has nothing but high damage laser weaponry and it is completely heat neutral. When it first appeared in the Inner Sphere no one understood how something so small could keep up that level of constant laser fire without heating up. Fast, well armoured, and with basically no bad variants (the Ryoken B is monstrous), the Ryoken is the best. Period.
For a second Clan Star, you might not want to get one, as with the 5 already in the Clan box you'll be at 10 of them vs the 10 IS 'Mechs you already have, and 10 vs 10 is not a good match up for the poor old Inner Sphere. So if you're building an Op4, I'd get the clan Command Star and one of the IS packs.
But if you do want a third Clan Star, then that choice is really between the Fire Star and the Heavy Battle Star. I won't go into the same detail as above, but let's just say that, for the Fire Star, the Dasher is an absolute speed demon with no armour to speak of, the Uller is a thin-skinned sniper at base and an ok Light 'Mech, the Cougar is a well armed light 'Mech that will outclass most IS light and medium 'Mechs, the Nova Cat is a scary "pocket assault 'Mech" from an era where the Clans stopped trying to be faster and just started bringing more guns on their heavies, and the Masakari is the Daishi's slightly smaller brother. For the Heavy Battle Star the Kingfisher is a giant brick wall of armour and weapons, easily one of the more durable Clan 'Mechs (and that's saying something), the Crossbow is a missile support 'Mech and suffers from the same issue a lot of Clan missile 'Mechs have in that all it's omni configs are just slight variations on lots of missiles, the Cauldron-Born is a well armed and fast mid-range heavy 'Mech with a good mix of high damage short and long ranged weaponry, the Nobori-nin is two 'Mechs in one, being both a medium 'Mech with more guns than most IS heavy 'Mechs but also being filled with electronics and weird secondary systems for fighting off infantry and incoming missiles. And lastly the Turkina, one of the few rivals to the Daishi's throne. The base Turkina can rip anything apart at range, and the variants only get better from there (the Turkina B is notoriously dangerous).
balmong7 wrote: Which should I consider if I find funds to add in money for add-on purchases?
Anything we mentioned above that you haven't already picked!
balmong7 wrote: Do any of these lances/stars include mechs I already own?
None of the Lance/Star packs, so far, have any duplicates. None of the Lance Packs have any of the 'Mechs from Beginner Box/Game of Armoured Combat. As it stands the only duplicate you should have is a pair of Wolverines, as one comes in both boxes you already own. I don't know why they did that, and I really wish they hadn't.
I also have to say thanks, that seems some great info and is definitely going to help me decide which packs to get.
Also want to say thanks for the guide, H.B.M.C. In fact, I think it's too good! I know I'll use the two Star packs with my Star Captain pledge to get the Command and Fire Stars to have a generalist Trinary, but I won't be able to resist getting the IS Battle and Direct Fire lances.
Or maybe I'll swap them around and pay the extra $10 to get a couple more Salvage Boxes for an (almost complete) Salvage Star!
Ok while there is nothing better in life than big stompy mechs, just as I was about to back I clicked to see previous KS as my usual due diligence.
Then I read about the shadow run board game and now every flashy warning light and klaxon is going off in my head.
I am aware of KS delays and also of catalysts reputation for speed so a years delay is no big surprise, however losing an entire continents worth of pledges and not even one of the little ones but Europe, while sending some people double there paid pledges and then asking people to return them with no guarantee of reimbursement for postage seems to be peak catalyst.
So there are having to pay for a second run of the game for Europe while not having enough funds to reimburse postage due to there errors. I just have a bad feeling about where the funds for this KS end up or catalyst even surviving long enough to deliver considering they appear to have screwed the pooch on the 6th edition of the SR RPG.
The last time I got a feeling like this I did not back the Robotech KS despite really really wanting too, just saying.
Am I being over cautious and paranoid? Normally I would wait for retail but given less than a dozen copies of any battletech stuff makes it to the UK that is likely to be a bust.
SeanDrake wrote: Ok while there is nothing better in life than big stompy mechs, just as I was about to back I clicked to see previous KS as my usual due diligence.
Then I read about the shadow run board game and now every flashy warning light and klaxon is going off in my head.
I am aware of KS delays and also of catalysts reputation for speed so a years delay is no big surprise, however losing an entire continents worth of pledges and not even one of the little ones but Europe, while sending some people double there paid pledges and then asking people to return them with no guarantee of reimbursement for postage seems to be peak catalyst.
So there are having to pay for a second run of the game for Europe while not having enough funds to reimburse postage due to there errors. I just have a bad feeling about where the funds for this KS end up or catalyst even surviving long enough to deliver considering they appear to have screwed the pooch on the 6th edition of the SR RPG.
The last time I got a feeling like this I did not back the Robotech KS despite really really wanting too, just saying.
Am I being over cautious and paranoid? Normally I would wait for retail but given less than a dozen copies of any battletech stuff makes it to the UK that is likely to be a bust.
its Kickstarter - there is a risk. Always is. This might be higher than some.
If you dont want to risk it - it will go to normal sales eventually - wait till then
For me If I kickstart something, anything I assume it will be late by at least a few months, saves alot of frustration.
balmong7 wrote: Can someone explain the salvage boxes to me? Are they like misprints? Or just random mechs gacha syle?
Random gacha boxes of the redesigned clan mechs. I thought I saw a compiled list somewhere of what mechs will be in them.
I posted above what sets they will be drawn from (as per lastest video update) and it includes IS sets despite previous information to the contrary.
Oh, thanks. I was checking everywhere else, which explains why I couldn't find it.
I've asked for clarification on the KS page and hopefully they'll update the FAQ in response.
Ok, double checked. It looks like it's just Clan Mechs and the mechs from Invasion and the first 2-3 stars.
CGL response from two hours ago on the second video comments section:
"Hey there Zech and Dan! You are getting your wish. The Salvage Boxes contain Clan Mechs only from the Invasion box and first 2-3 Clan Star Packs. Sorry if we misspoke!"
So the Salvage boxes may have: Executioner Timer Wolf Nova Grendel Adder Dire Wolf Stormcrow Shadow Cat Mist Lynx Summoner Gargoyle Mad Dog Hellbringer Viper Ice Ferret
I'm having a bit of a tricky time deciding on how I'm going to paint up my new Clan Mechs!
I've already got a decent amount of Jade Falcon Mechs (greatest Clan in existence), so I don't know whether to stick with that or start up a new Clan.
Pros: Get to do a new colour scheme and it means that I can do Clan vs. Clan games.
Cons: They won't be Jade Falcon and I don't know if I can cope with a lesser Clan getting the lovely new models.
Then, there's the choice of Clan... Not a chance in hell of it being Wolf and I don't see much future in the Smoke Jaguars. Ghost Bear? They seem to be philosophically very different from the Falcons, so that might work.
Come on, H.B.M.C., you've got to have something to say on this!
Chillreaper wrote: I'm having a bit of a tricky time deciding on how I'm going to paint up my new Clan Mechs!
I've already got a decent amount of Jade Falcon Mechs (greatest Clan in existence), so I don't know whether to stick with that or start up a new Clan.
Pros: Get to do a new colour scheme and it means that I can do Clan vs. Clan games.
Cons: They won't be Jade Falcon and I don't know if I can cope with a lesser Clan getting the lovely new models.
Then, there's the choice of Clan... Not a chance in hell of it being Wolf and I don't see much future in the Smoke Jaguars. Ghost Bear? They seem to be philosophically very different from the Falcons, so that might work.
Come on, H.B.M.C., you've got to have something to say on this!
I'd say don't paint them as Clan Smoke Jaguar, Blood Spirit, Burrock, Fire Mandrill or Ice Hellion
If you believe Jade Falcon is the very best, like no Clan ever was then you can just have them engaging in infighting, probably over the glory of leading the invasion.
If you believe Jade Falcon is the very best, like no Clan ever was then you can just have them engaging in infighting, probably over the glory of leading the invasion.
Yeah, this is exactly what I was going to say.
Turkina Keshik for life!
Although Star Adder would be my go-to, far, far second place choice.
I'm going to note that if you're new to battletech don't go PURE clan. (granted you can just get the starter box and you won't be) clan tech is in many ways a little too good. and people who start using it pick up some bad habits. starting with intro level tech is the best place to start. it forces you to learn things like heat management, etc. (heat management can be pretty simple even on most 3025 designs. most designs are designed with bracket fire in mind)
If you believe Jade Falcon is the very best, like no Clan ever was then you can just have them engaging in infighting, probably over the glory of leading the invasion.
Why did I not think of this?!
My current stuff is Omega Galaxy, so Lambda, Rho or Gamma could be a nice change. Not going to attempt Turkina Keshik, though - can't be doing with trying to freehand screaming birds all over the place.
If you believe Jade Falcon is the very best, like no Clan ever was then you can just have them engaging in infighting, probably over the glory of leading the invasion.
I rarely think about Clan military structure and for a solid minute was genuinely confused and thought you meant to have Clans from literally another galaxy fighting it out like some kind of Batteltech version of the Yuuzahn Vong, thinking to myself "that was the dumbest suggestion I've seen in a while", then looked at the linked page, REMEMBERED Clan military structure, and immediately felt like an idiot. It was quite the rollercoaster of emotions.
BrianDavion wrote: I'm going to note that if you're new to battletech don't go PURE clan. (granted you can just get the starter box and you won't be) clan tech is in many ways a little too good. and people who start using it pick up some bad habits. starting with intro level tech is the best place to start. it forces you to learn things like heat management, etc. (heat management can be pretty simple even on most 3025 designs. most designs are designed with bracket fire in mind)
Yeah, I got in to Battletech long after the Clans had been a part of the universe and it took a few years to appreciate the older Era tech levels. Clan Mechs are really cool, but they ignore a lot of the limitations that make the game interesting. I personally prefer IS level2 tech from the 3039 book, it's got a lot of the fun toys and extra equipment types that 3025 tech (or IS level1) doesn't have like the special armors, double heat-sinks and the like, but the IS lvl2 tech isn't so good that you can fire everything every turn with no consequences like the Clan mechs often can. I find 3025 tech a little TOO limiting on heat management and it devolves too often into running into combat and kicking the other mech till his leg breaks and he falls over
If anyone wants me to go over the other Lance packs and their pros/cons, just let me know. I always love talking endlessly about 'Mech variants.
Chillreaper wrote: Come on, H.B.M.C., you've got to have something to say on this!
I have a lot of Clan 'Mechs, and will have far more once this KS is over. My 'Mechs, right now, are split into two forces - Jade Falcon (obviously!) and Ghost Bear. The Falcons are my front line 100% Omni group (plus a bunch of Elementals and all my Protomechs) and my Ghost Bears are have all the second line (a few iconic Omnis) tons more infantry and a Trinary of vehicles.
So I'd go with Ghost Bear. Hell, if it weren't for the fact that they opened up the Great Houses (and therefore House Davion) for the custom dice I'd be getting a Ghost Bear set of dice. That's how much I like them.
That said I do want to get a set of Comstar dice, although they have to be weighted to cheat because Comstar are bastards.
The new goals are opening up the annihilated/absorbed Clans for faction pacs, dice etc. So if you're a die-hard Wolverine, Mongoose or Widowmaker fan, they've got you covered.
Another Lance/Star pack, contents undetermined, as they're going to the community for ideas (I will lobby for The Egg Men to get made!).
Opening up Kell Hounds and Wolf's Dragoons for faction packs, dice, etc.
Another new Lance/Star pack, again by the community.
And then the $1m stretch goal just says this:
Late winter branches Brittle, baren, bedeviled Early spring surprised
My guess? Specific faction Lances/Stars, starting with a Kurita Lance.
EDIT: Don't know if this got posted, but 3D of the Archer.
I think we blasted through all their goals and now they have decided to be careful, and that's a good thing. I second the Urbie lance, it needs to be done.
After reading what Randall wrote about how they pick the mechs for the packs I can agree with the out of universe explanations, but trying to group the mechs by roles as stated in Campaign Operations makes me laugh. Most of the official books had perplexing choices for the lances that boil down to "it's the only thing we had available" Urbies paired with fast mechs. Archers with Stingers, slow heavies heading recon lances...
Miguelsan wrote: I think we blasted through all their goals and now they have decided to be careful, and that's a good thing. I second the Urbie lance, it needs to be done.
After reading what Randall wrote about how they pick the mechs for the packs I can agree with the out of universe explanations, but trying to group the mechs by roles as stated in Campaign Operations makes me laugh. Most of the official books had perplexing choices for the lances that boil down to "it's the only thing we had available" Urbies paired with fast mechs. Archers with Stingers, slow heavies heading recon lances...
M.
but that's military operations ?
Quite often units are formed in wartime with whats available, plus add in, House preferences (Steiner Recon Lance) that salvage is a major thing (just like in WWII) and 'Mech production being variable in different Houses, regions etc.
H.B.M.C. wrote: If anyone wants me to go over the other Lance packs and their pros/cons, just let me know. I always love talking endlessly about 'Mech variants.
When fulfillment time hits. You should just make a separate thread or article breaking down every pack and mech currently available (including the beginner box and game of armored combat box for the noobs). It would be a super useful and interesting read.
Late winter branches
Brittle, baren, bedeviled
Early spring surprised
My guess? Specific faction Lances/Stars, starting with a Kurita Lance
Some speculation that this referers to Tukayyid....
seems unlikely. if it's a clan invasion battle it's more likely Luthein. fought in january, on the homeworld of House Kurita, won in part by the suprise apperance of the kell hound and wolfs dragoons merc units showing up
H.B.M.C. wrote: If anyone wants me to go over the other Lance packs and their pros/cons, just let me know. I always love talking endlessly about 'Mech variants.
When fulfillment time hits. You should just make a separate thread or article breaking down every pack and mech currently available (including the beginner box and game of armored combat box for the noobs). It would be a super useful and interesting read.
honestly, the best advise I can give you is go over to sarna.net and look them up. play styles differ and battletech is insanely well balanced so, assuming you use BV, it'll all come down to how you wanna play
BrianDavion wrote: what you're not gonna paint em up as "Davion guards with excessive levels of salvage"?
on another note for those looking for offical paint schemes check out camo specs online http://camospecs.com/
Yeah... not going for that plan.
I think that the Ghost Bears would be fun and it gives me a legitimate reason to get a Kodiak. I've never been into the whole IS unit with half of it being Clantech, although the new IS minis are going to give me an opportunity to fulfil a 20 year old dream... Camacho's Cabelleros, baby!
BrianDavion wrote: what you're not gonna paint em up as "Davion guards with excessive levels of salvage"?
on another note for those looking for offical paint schemes check out camo specs online http://camospecs.com/
Yeah... not going for that plan.
I think that the Ghost Bears would be fun and it gives me a legitimate reason to get a Kodiak. I've never been into the whole IS unit with half of it being Clantech, although the new IS minis are going to give me an opportunity to fulfil a 20 year old dream... Camacho's Cabelleros, baby!
Operation Bulldog, also known as the best part of the BTech timeline. If it could only be forever 3058.
BrianDavion wrote: honestly, the best advise I can give you is go over to sarna.net and look them up. play styles differ and battletech is insanely well balanced so, assuming you use BV, it'll all come down to how you wanna play
Yeah but then I don't get to write a bunch of stuff.
zend wrote: So can Clan players use IS models as refits?
It depends on the point in the timeline you're playing. Playing in 3049, right at the start of the Clan invasion? No. The Inner Sphere don't understand what the Clans even are, let alone what their 'Mechs and technology does. Playing during the during the middle of the Jihad Era in 3075, by then ClanTech has proliferated enough that elite units have a number from salvage, some more than others. The later you go, the more common it becomes.
If I remember correctly, the Clans did make use of captured Inner Sphere equipment for use by garrisons during the invasion. If you're doing a scenario you might run into a few Inner Sphere 'mechs used by the Clans, but in general during the invasion the Clans would strictly be using Clan equipment.
Gotcha. Was asking because I think a Warhammer painted in Smoke Jaguars colors would be sexy, but RIP, the SJ clan dies well before 3075.
I’m a newbie to both the setting and the game, but this Kickstarter seems like a great jump on point for both collecting and playing. I’ll probably grab the IS Battle Lance in the $95 tier anyways, I love the Warhammer design.
There are a couple of IS mechs that the clans built as garrison units.
They usually have a 'C' designation, such as Warhammer C, Thunderbolt C, ect. These are IS mechs, with clan weapons, where as the IIC's are entirely clan machines, and may be different tonnages from the original model. (A Marauder IIC is 85 tons for example)
Clan Tech is way, way better then the best the Inner Sphere has until ComStar suddenly says "Hey guys! Look! We opened up this 250 year old hanger, and it's full of pristine Star League Defense Force Tech!". Which would still be 250 years behind what the Clans would have developed in that time, but FASA made a goof and gave the Clans tech that was just a little too good.
In game terms, I can't think of any time I would choose an Inner Sphere mech over a Clan mech of the same tonnage. Which led to this weird BV of Clan mechs where a clan medium mech would have the same BV of an Inner Sphere heavy. And the Clan medium mech would probably win in that match up. There is zero reason to take an Inner Sphere mech over a Clan mech when you have access to them. It's like playing a totally different game when you use Clan Mechs (especially the Omnimechs).
In the later years (3058?) of the Invasion, we started to see second line Clan Mechs like the Maruader IIC, or the Warhammer IIC. Iconic Inner Sphere mechs remade with Clan Tech.
Tamwulf wrote: Clan Tech is way, way better then the best the Inner Sphere has until ComStar suddenly says "Hey guys! Look! We opened up this 250 year old hanger, and it's full of pristine Star League Defense Force Tech!". Which would still be 250 years behind what the Clans would have developed in that time, but FASA made a goof and gave the Clans tech that was just a little too good.
If only the various companies involved had decades to fix that mistake! If only....
If you put your mech of choice in the search box, you'll get a list of all of the variants - and I mean all of them. Might be enough to scare the ever-living mech coolant out of you!
Variants with a C suffix are Clan refits of IS models, those with a IIC suffix are different mechs entirely that are basically spiritual successors.
zend wrote: Gotcha. Was asking because I think a Warhammer painted in Smoke Jaguars colors would be sexy, but RIP, the SJ clan dies well before 3075.
I’m a newbie to both the setting and the game, but this Kickstarter seems like a great jump on point for both collecting and playing. I’ll probably grab the IS Battle Lance in the $95 tier anyways, I love the Warhammer design.
Oh, they've got you covered! The Clan Support Star has a Warhammer IIC, which is the Clan version of the Warhammer. It also looks really, really cool, even in its ancient 80s version.
Spoiler:
I'm so glad it's going to plastic. That monster lost its arms more times than I can count when I had the metal model.
What are the quality of the minis like. I was looking at close ups of the beginners and existing main set and the minis detail quality and plastic used looks a bit iffy although I could be wrong. Will these new minis be of that same quality and plastic?
Really loved the minis detail quality and plastic on the recent Hellboy KS. If these new BattleTech minis were going to be of the same standard? I could be interested in this KS otherwise not. In truth the Hellboy minis were all great and Mantic really delivered on the KS production values.
The KS minis look really nice in their 3D modelling but that doesn’t always translate into the final product/what you get.
Also the KS shows you can buy the original box set minis for 40USD, will these be refreshed or just what they were before?
The quality of the minis is a big part of a KS for me or any minis game for that matter and I have had a bad experience in the past with Merc’s Recon (Just used a terrible plastic and some dodgy detailing/sculpting) so I am always dubious now unless the developer comes up with some real pictures or great assurances. Hellboy was a great example of great quality minis delivery on a KS.
Hopefully someone from Catalyst actually reads Dakka and can give a response but I doubt it. Would be great to see an actual real mini to see the quality and know what plastic was going to be used. Maybe it would be a good opportunity for them to upgrade the existing minis quality in this KS if they were at the lower end?
Also why are they doing this double forces deal on the pledges, I don’t want more of the same and would much rather get a different lance pack, seems a really counter productive part of the pledge options for them.
In short, the minis are above board game quality by maybe a step, but in no way are comparable to things produced by GW, say. From the sounds of it, you will likely be disappointed by them.
As far as the doubling up goes, it sucks for backers. But it makes total 100% sense from an ease of fulfillment standpoint. Having to pick 10 different lances for a Star Colonel is way harder than two each of five. Now multiply that by thousands of backers with multiple choices....
Thanks for your input totalfailure, sounds like this KS won’t be for me if the minis quality is less than that of the Hellboy KS which is a shame.
Really I don’t understand the double forces rationale. People will just be buying multiple different lances anyway on the add ons in the pledge manager so they are going to get complex orders anyway. This was a terrible decision by them IMO, forcing backers to get what they don’t want is a case of self harm to the KS.
The other thing I liked about the Hellboy KS was from memory the designer and another Mantic staff member was very active within the KS comments.
Man, that Archer render is gorgeous. I'm thinking i'll happily make due with the Beginners Box and AGoAC plastics, plus the few minis I have from Iron Wind, until this delivers and I can really bulk out my collection. Too many of the metals are just crimes against model-making.
Seems like my thoughts on the minis are realistic and their production values are somewhat lacking.
Man, that Archer render is gorgeous. I'm thinking i'll happily make due with the Beginners Box and AGoAC plastics, plus the few minis I have from Iron Wind, until this delivers and I can really bulk out my collection. Too many of the metals are just crimes against model-making
The renders looked great on Mercs Recon also but what you got was not what you saw in the renders. A case of buyer beware me thinks.
I don't see a lack in production values. They're using a different material than GW, and a different design philosophy (one tha's not all bling). They look pretty good to me and apparently enough others to get to $800K for a Kickstarter whose original goal was only $30k.
Ghaz wrote: I don't see a lack in production values. They're using a different material than GW, and a different design philosophy (one tha's not all bling). They look pretty good to me and apparently enough others to get to $800K for a Kickstarter whose original goal was only $30k.
Are you referring to the material in the image you posted? I don't think that is a physical model but rather a 3d model with some lighting and reflective effects added.
Yeah that render looks great but I would like to see a real model.
Mercs Recon had loads of those images and what was delivered fell way short of the images.
Looking at the vid you posted it seemed like there was loads of production errors and the plastic they use doesn’t look that great.
Thing I liked about the Hellboy KS is they posted some real minis painted and unpainted and the unpainted minis delivered looked as good as the ones on the KS pictures. I would now feel happy about backing any Mantic KS as I know they have their production values in order. At this point I cannot feel the same way about Catalyst.
They're going to be the same material & techniques at the recent starter box stuff shown at the top of the page, so you should be able to get a decent idea of what you'll get
Yeah I'm really not sure. I tried working with 25th anniversary starter box models and those were like someone tried to make a mini out of a soda bottle. Stringy fibrous plastic, poor detailing, terrible to work with.
I think I'll stick with my plan and back for a salvage box and maybe 1 star. No loss either way if it works out or not.
They're going to be the same material & techniques at the recent starter box stuff shown at the top of the page, so you should be able to get a decent idea of what you'll get
As posted already that would cause me concern.
They're going to be the same material & techniques at the recent starter box stuff shown at the top of the page, so you should be able to get a decent idea of what you'll get
That is the experience I had with Mercs Recon, just terrible production values.
In this day and age if a company that has minis in their game can’t produce them to a good standard then that game loses out on a sector of the market straight away.
I am not in the KS but maybe someone who is and also values good minis could put a challenge in the KS comments and let us know the response.
Well, update in the comments on the salvage boxes from Catalyst. They will include mechs from the Clan Starterbox, and at least the first 2 Stars- possibly up to the first 4 Stars. There will be no IS mechs in the Salvage Boxes.
I really wouldn't judge the current minis from the Starter set with 24 mechs- that's the main reason people are excited about the new ones. The new mechs are hard plastic, and quite beefy compared to the older models. Details definitely not as crisp as GW, but it's totally fine for tabletop.
Whilst the new minis aren't the greatest in the world and quite a distance from GW's production quality (whatever I may think of GW these days, you can't fault the detail and crisp lines they can get), they're leagues ahead of what we've had to put up with for the past 25 years.
Battletech 3rd Edition, Citytech 2nd, Plastech and the relatively recent starter sets were large, glorified Risk models in comparison to what we're getting now. The metal minis from IWM/RPE varied in quality, mostly as a result of the designs that they were based on.
I'd say that most of the reason that people are jumping on the new minis isn't because they're the most amazing minis ever, but because they're better by far than anything we've been able to get in the past, at a reasonable price and a fair few of the designs are ones that we haven't been able to get (legally) for 20 years.
I really wouldn't judge the current minis from the Starter set with 24 mechs- that's the main reason people are excited about the new ones. The new mechs are hard plastic, and quite beefy compared to the older models. Details definitely not as crisp as GW, but it's totally fine for tabletop.
We are not really talking about the 25th set but the minis from the existing beginners and core set in the vid posted by Ghaz which can only be described as average at best.
Really Catalyst should be aiming higher and this KS does have the potential for that. If it’s more of the same it’s a wasted opportunity. I hate to harp back to it but it’s the most recent one I have participated in, Mantic produced an absurd amount of minis for its KS and everyone received has crisp detailing and the plastic feels high quality and nothing wonky or miscast. If Catalyst need an example of how to do something right on the minis front they need look no further than the Hellboy KS by Mantic.
I would be more interested in their KS starter if they said they were aiming higher with the minis and general production values and could also actually show real examples. Hell even if they said for the main SG at 1 mil they were going to upgrade the beginner and core set minis would peak my interest more.
I am highly dubious those highly detailed mins in those renders will come out the other end anywhere close to how they look in the renders.
I'd say that most of the reason that people are jumping on the new minis isn't because they're the most amazing minis ever, but because they're better by far than anything we've been able to get in the past, at a reasonable price and a fair few of the designs are ones that we haven't been able to get (legally) for 20 years.
Hence why this KS is such a great opportunity for Catalyst to up their production values again.
If Mantic could do it on a brand new game why can’t Catalyst on an existing one? Why should the KS community accept lower quality minis for any new KS campaigns when Mantic showed perfectly how it could be done.
The new miniature quality is fine. If you don't like them, don't get them. But since we all know what constitutes "bad" when it comes to Battletech miniatures, I think the majority of us can happily admit that the next batch of miniatures from the kickstarter being up to the same level of quality as the most recent introductory boxes puts them squarely in the "good" column. Complaining that they aren't the best is kind of silly.
Odd, I never thought anyone paid much attention to Battletech lore. Our group made our own designs for the longest times, using the TRO's as a starting point, but gutting the innards.
I never did get more than skin deep into the lore, just used the game as a sandbox to do our own thing - kind of like a homebrew D&D world.
One thing to keep in mind is that a lot of us have warm feelings to battletech due to our gaming history. Battletech's been around a long time and I sincerly doubt I'm the only person here whose got their start with battletech and played it for a long length of time. even a mild pledge gets you pretty much all you'll need in terms of minis for the game. the star captain pledge will gain you a full trinary/company of mechs, for 95 bucks USD. you'll, realisticly likely never need more then 15 mechs for battletech so.. yeah this is a pretty low cost game
ekwatts wrote: The new miniature quality is fine. If you don't like them, don't get them. But since we all know what constitutes "bad" when it comes to Battletech miniatures, I think the majority of us can happily admit that the next batch of miniatures from the kickstarter being up to the same level of quality as the most recent introductory boxes puts them squarely in the "good" column. Complaining that they aren't the best is kind of silly.
I think you are misunderstanding my posts. I am not asking for them to be the best just of a standard similar to those Mantic put out on the Hellboy KS. When looking at that vid they seemed to have numerous issues e.g. mould lines, imperfections in casting, detail issues and wonky bits, likely due to the plastic used and the casting process being adopted.
If I said GW was a 10 and the platinum standard, I would put the Mantic Hellboy minis in their kickstarter around an 8 but the BattleTech minis I saw in that vid around a 6 on the production values front. Now I could be wrong and would actually like to pick up a beginners box to see for myself but unfortunately nobody seems to stock them in the UK.
Just because the Battletech community have had bad minis in the past doesn’t mean they should accept mediocre in the more recent sets as good? Catalyst are putting out some great looking renders there, I don’t think it’s unfair to expect the final product to look as good otherwise they are false advertising.
and the end of the day battletech fans are playing the game for more then the minis. they're useally more intreasted in the story etc then anything else.
You keep talking about these other Kickstarters like it means something.
Mantic did this. The Hellboy KS did that.
So what? It's like the people going "Will this suffer the same fate as the Robotech KS?", which makes no sense as this KS is as unrelated to the Robotech KS as the miniatures in this are related to anything Mantic has ever made.
Chimaera wrote: Yeah that render looks great but I would like to see a real model.
Mercs Recon had loads of those images and what was delivered fell way short of the images.
Looking at the vid you posted it seemed like there was loads of production errors and the plastic they use doesn’t look that great.
Thing I liked about the Hellboy KS is they posted some real minis painted and unpainted and the unpainted minis delivered looked as good as the ones on the KS pictures. I would now feel happy about backing any Mantic KS as I know they have their production values in order. At this point I cannot feel the same way about Catalyst.
WTF are you talking about? Mercs Recon was completely hand sculpted, no renders were previewed. These minis are the same PVC plastic minis as the quickstart and regular starterset minis that released last year which have already been posted here and other places (see Ghaz's post at the top of the page). I still to this day don't get the hate for Mercs Recon, but hey, I got me a $200 pledge for $60 so I can't complain too much, and had no real issues painting it up.Then again, I've also done a fair few of the original 3025 plastic box sets mechs to look pretty decent as well (see sig). As long as you don't rely on the sculpt itself to do ALL your painting for you then you can make them look pretty great, just place some highlights and shadows where they should be. But even with that said I've seen some really good results just with Contrast paints recently on the battletech Painting and Customs FB group, I suggest you join and look through the posted pics if you want to see the material painted up by both professionals and amateurs alike, make up your own mind
H.B.M.C. wrote: You keep talking about these other Kickstarters like it means something.
Mantic did this. The Hellboy KS did that.
So what? It's like the people going "Will this suffer the same fate as the Robotech KS?", which makes no sense as this KS is as unrelated to the Robotech KS as the miniatures in this are related to anything Mantic has ever made.
Where did I mention Robotech? Not even seen that KS.
Why shouldn’t asking for a good quality mini in a KS be a reasonable expectation?
Simply saying Mantic did it right for the Hellboy minis (you got the mini their KS showed you to that standard). Any reason other companies shouldn’t be able to get it right in their Kickstarters?
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WTF are you talking about? Mercs Recon was completely hand sculpted, no renders were previewed. These minis are the same PVC plastic minis as the quickstart and regular starterset minis that released last year which have already been posted here and other places (see Ghaz's post at the top of the page).
It’s been a while but basically the minis Mercs advertised (renders or no renders I cannot even remember) I don’t feel met the expectation at all. What was received IMO fell way short. Horrible plastic, miscasts, bad detailing, mould lines/flash, loads of bent things just left me feeling cheated.
Why do people keep referring to Ghaz’ post like I haven’t seen it. I have as mentioned a few times, it’s where a lot of my misgivings are coming from as they have a Mercs production values feel to them.
Actually just had a look at that vid again but this time reading the comments attached to it. Seems like quite a few people posted wishing the minis and their quality/production values were better,
Oh yeah, the Robotech KS... I keep trying to forget about that, despite the huge boxes of unbuilt and unopened minis.
Now, there was a Kickstarter where they they put effort into making high quality, giant stompy robots. HIPS, multi part, crisp edges, posability and lots of options for variety in each individual model...
Just thinking about building another one of those minis makes me want to push my fingers into my eyes...
You didn't. Hence my sentence beginning with "It's like the people...". It's called a comparison.
Chimaera wrote: Why shouldn’t asking for a good quality mini in a KS be a reasonable expectation?
These seem good quality to me, and by far a massive improvement over previous plastic 'Mechs from the last two generations of starter-kits.
Does this make me unreasonable?
Chimaera wrote: Simply saying Mantic did it right for the Hellboy minis (you got the mini their KS showed you to that standard). Any reason other companies shouldn’t be able to get it right in their Kickstarters?
Who says that these miniatures aren't "right". All you're doing is expressing an opinion about the quality, and then arguing with anyone who disagrees with you. If you don't like the quality that's fine, but it's got nothing to do with any other Kickstarter and if you don't like it, that's your business.
Who says that these miniatures aren't "right". All you're doing is expressing an opinion about the quality, and then arguing with anyone who disagrees with you. If you don't like the quality that's fine, but it's got nothing to do with any other Kickstarter and if you don't like it, that's your business.
Actually I wasn’t arguing with anyone but if expressing concerns about Catalysts production values and hoping for a better quality mini than that displayed in the vid Ghaz posted constitutes arguing so be it.
I have seen no evidence or discussion on the KS about upping their production values. Until I do this KS will be a hard pass for me.
I think it’s pretty clear this Kickstarter won’t be for you. I would not expect Catalyst to radically change anything during the campaign, or after. For them, and clearly many Battletech players, the quality is acceptable. That it’s not up to your specs is what it is.
H.B.M.C. wrote: You keep talking about these other Kickstarters like it means something.
Mantic did this. The Hellboy KS did that.
So what? It's like the people going "Will this suffer the same fate as the Robotech KS?", which makes no sense as this KS is as unrelated to the Robotech KS as the miniatures in this are related to anything Mantic has ever made.
Yeah there’s no comparison with Robotech as palladium were company famous for there delays and incompetence with no KS experience, where as catalyst are a company famous for delays and incompetence with KS experience that includes a losing a continents worth of pledges. So no comparison there then
As for the quality I think he’s trying to say why settle for average quality just because your used to gakky quality, mantic showed renders and then found a company that made pvc models that reflected the quality of the renders. It took a couple of goes but they got there in the end those existing pvc mechs look like they are produced by the factory that mantic stopped using.
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totalfailure wrote: I think it’s pretty clear this Kickstarter won’t be for you. I would not expect Catalyst to radically change anything during the campaign, or after. For them, and clearly many Battletech players, the quality is acceptable. That it’s not up to your specs is what it is.
That’s because BT players are used to early 80’s quality miniatures so mechs with 00’s level quality give them the fuzzies apparently. That’s always been BT’s problem the whole ethos of below average will do as long as there’s releases coming.
H.B.M.C. wrote: You keep talking about these other Kickstarters like it means something.
Mantic did this. The Hellboy KS did that.
So what? It's like the people going "Will this suffer the same fate as the Robotech KS?", which makes no sense as this KS is as unrelated to the Robotech KS as the miniatures in this are related to anything Mantic has ever made.
Yeah there’s no comparison with Robotech as palladium were company famous for there delays and incompetence with no KS experience, where as catalyst are a company famous for delays and incompetence with KS experience that includes a losing a continents worth of pledges. So no comparison there then
As for the quality I think he’s trying to say why settle for average quality just because your used to gakky quality, mantic showed renders and then found a company that made pvc models that reflected the quality of the renders. It took a couple of goes but they got there in the end those existing pvc mechs look like they are produced by the factory that mantic stopped using.
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totalfailure wrote: I think it’s pretty clear this Kickstarter won’t be for you. I would not expect Catalyst to radically change anything during the campaign, or after. For them, and clearly many Battletech players, the quality is acceptable. That it’s not up to your specs is what it is.
That’s because BT players are used to early 80’s quality miniatures so mechs with 00’s level quality give them the fuzzies apparently. That’s always been BT’s problem the whole ethos of below average will do as long as there’s releases coming.
Thank you Sean glad someone gets it at least. This is exactly what I am saying. Those beginners and core set minis in that vid look very reminiscent of the Mercs stuff and that just puts me off. Jeez I wasn’t aware of Catalyst losing a continents worth of pledges in the past.
I actually played BT when it was first released. I have stayed away as I never felt the minis moved with the times and although the newer ones are a step in the right direction they still seem a much lower quality compared to the wider market and not where they should be in this day and age. I want to jump in but feel totally reluctant.
Now if Catalyst said in the KS they were moving the minis quality up and this would also apply to existing minis in the core set etc even as part of the SG’s it would be a big positive. Why couldn’t they even use the same manufacturer and plastic Mantic used for the Hellboy KS? I would feel a whole lot more comfortable if they addressed quality of the minis in their KS.
If those are your concerns, probably better to wait for retail. Unlike those other KS you mentioned, this one seems to have no KS exclusive minis, just swag like the challenge coins. Only thing you're missing out is the slightly lower RSP but even that can be probably be offset by retailer sales. In exchange, you'll have the confidence of knowing if the minis are up to your standards or not, before putting down money. I don't mean that sarcastically BTW, I personally am very picky when backing KSs too.
PS Mercs recon though... That was a gak show. Personally I don't think CGL is on the same level as those guys, not even close. They basically sank their company thru shady kickstarter over promising. Iirc.
The KS was updated with a link to the first short story for the backers. It's a nice tidbit of what things might have been when meeting the clans for the first time. Although being anal retentive about things Btech I went and checked the original background of Invading Clans and the author got Star Col Shower's mech wrong! She was ridding a Timber Wolf not a Dire Wolf!!!!!!
rabidaskal wrote: If those are your concerns, probably better to wait for retail. Unlike those other KS you mentioned, this one seems to have no KS exclusive minis, just swag like the challenge coins. Only thing you're missing out is the slightly lower RSP but even that can be probably be offset by retailer sales. In exchange, you'll have the confidence of knowing if the minis are up to your standards or not, before putting down money. I don't mean that sarcastically BTW, I personally am very picky when backing KSs too.
PS Mercs recon though... That was a gak show. Personally I don't think CGL is on the same level as those guys, not even close. They basically sank their company thru shady kickstarter over promising. Iirc.
Alas you could be right Rabid which is a shame because my heart wants to back this KS for sentimental reasons but my head is saying don’t accept mediocre minis production values. Unless I see something addressing quality in the KS i.e. the minis are going to look exactly like the renders and be of a higher quality plastic and tooling than previous minis, I am probably out.
Your right on the KS being a little stingy as it doesn’t seem to be really offering that much more minis (apart from a few blind salvage packs) for free and everything seems to be add ons for a cost or the enforced double forces option which certainly doesn’t favour backers, maybe they are trying to fund a reprint of their beginners and core sets within this KS? When I look back at the amount of minis received from the Hellboy KS and their quality this one feels a little light on both fronts.
Oh, the value and discount is there, that really isn't subjective at all. Presently, the cheapest mechs available are the Game of Armored Combat, with a MSRP of 60. That puts the price per mech (hereafter referred to as PPM) at 7.5
Star Captain's your best pledge for mech value- it started with 15 mechs for 95, or 6.33 per mech. With the freebies, we've added 2 points of elementals, and 2 salvage boxes. Counting just mechs, that's a PPM of 5.58. Counting the bases of Elementals, it drops to 5 bucks per mech or point of Elementals.
30% off retail is a pretty good deal for a kickstarter. And keeping in mind, that's just the starter minis- many individual battletech miniatures are in the 10-15 dollar range. For the Inner Sphere Comman lance, you pay 20 in Kickstarter. At Ironwind Metals, the Archer is 15.75, the Marauder 16.25, the Stinger 9.95 and the Valkyrie 10.45 (52 dollars for the lance). This kickstarter is a great deal for Battletech miniatures.
Admittedly, the higher pledges have much lower rates for the mechs- but you're pledging that for prestige, and awesome perks like your name in the universe, t-shirts and such.
Gitzbitah wrote: Oh, the value and discount is there, that really isn't subjective at all. Presently, the cheapest mechs available are the Game of Armored Combat, with a MSRP of 60. That puts the price per mech (hereafter referred to as PPM) at 7.5
Star Captain's your best pledge for mech value- it started with 15 mechs for 95, or 6.33 per mech. With the freebies, we've added 2 points of elementals, and 2 salvage boxes. Counting just mechs, that's a PPM of 5.58. Counting the bases of Elementals, it drops to 5 bucks per mech or point of Elementals.
30% off retail is a pretty good deal for a kickstarter. And keeping in mind, that's just the starter minis- many individual battletech miniatures are in the 10-15 dollar range. For the Inner Sphere Comman lance, you pay 20 in Kickstarter. At Ironwind Metals, the Archer is 15.75, the Marauder 16.25, the Stinger 9.95 and the Valkyrie 10.45 (52 dollars for the lance). This kickstarter is a great deal for Battletech miniatures.
Admittedly, the higher pledges have much lower rates for the mechs- but you're pledging that for prestige, and awesome perks like your name in the universe, t-shirts and such.
Compare this with the Hellboy KS where for my agent pledge of $95 I got over 100 minis (haven’t counted them exactly but certainly in excess) with at least 60 unique sculpts. All done to a great standard and even the box and extras inside were high quality. 5 of the minis were even of monstrous size and done brilliantly all using a very nice quality plastic. All of the minis I received were free of defects, flash, wonky bits and the detail was crisp and the sculpting sharp as previewed in their KS.
I wouldn’t say the value is subjective it’s non existent LOL.
Another thing I noticed on the Hellboy KS was a lot of challenge in the comments about what the minis quality was going to be like, none seen in the Battletech KS. What I can see is people commenting on the renders but that’s all they are, no working prototype or examples shown. It’s a bit like what Sean said.
That’s because BT players are used to early 80’s quality miniatures so mechs with 00’s level quality give them the fuzzies apparently. That’s always been BT’s problem the whole ethos of below average will do as long as there’s releases coming.
Chimaera wrote: I wouldn’t say the value is subjective it’s non existent LOL.
Because you're comparing apples to snowmobiles.
BTech isn't about 100's of miniatures, and you've just had an explanation of how these 'Mechs are significantly cheaper than purchasing the existing metal models (some of which are decades old sculpts, and are not at all the redesigns that we're getting here).
We're comparing BattleTech that exists to BattleTech that will be. You're not.
For my pledge I'm getting enough 'Mechs that it would cost over well over $1000. For $400 I'm getting all those 'Mechs plus over 10 new mapsheets (new mapsheets are a bit deal for BTech players), and even more beyond that.
If you understood what this game is at all, maybe you'd stop comparing it to something utterly alien.
Base pledge of $120 got you 438 minis. Some of which were buildings. Two of those "minis" would come in handy should an intruder ever break into your home.
Why can't Mantic (who I think are brilliant, by the way!) provide that level of value?
Chimaera wrote: Another thing I noticed on the Hellboy KS was a lot of challenge in the comments about what the minis quality was going to be like
That is because Mantic had used the same Hellboy PVC in their TWD KS game and said the same PVC was going to be used in their next KS campaigns for Star Saga, Terrain Crate and possibly KOW Vanguard(I dropped it, so not 100% sure on outcome) After the campaigns finished Mantic did a material swap for inferior PVC which pissed a lot of people off.
Personally after watching the video linked by Ghaz(iirc) i think these minis should be fine for the purpose intended.
No I am simply comparing how one campaign compares to another in content offered and value added.
BTech isn't about 100's of miniatures, and you've just had an explanation of how these 'Mechs are significantly cheaper than purchasing the existing metal models (some of which are decades old sculpts, and are not at all the redesigns that we're getting here).
I know this
We're comparing BattleTech that exists to BattleTech that will be. You're not.
No I am simply challenging what BattleTech should be minis quality wise. It doesn't sound from the Kickstarter they will be taking a step forward just everyone doing a whoopy do over the renders. Dont get me wrong I was very happy to see the Archer, Rifleman, Warhammer etc making an appearance but I just don't believe they are going to deliver on the renders after Ghaz posting that vid.
For my pledge I'm getting enough 'Mechs that it would cost over well over $1000. For $400 I'm getting all those 'Mechs plus over 10 new mapsheets (new mapsheets are a bit deal for BTech players), and even more beyond that.
Fair do's.
If you understood what this game is at all, maybe you'd stop comparing it to something utterly alien.
You obviously missed the post where I said I played this game when it was first released I am not comparing something utterly alien simply kickstarters that offer minis of a similar scale and the value added in those kickstarters.
Base pledge of $120 got you 438 minis. Some of which were buildings. Two of those "minis" would come in handy should an intruder ever broke into your home.
Why can't Mantic (who I think are brilliant, by the way!) provide that level of value?
Haha I see what you did there and in truth Mythic did a great job on content in that KS and added real value just as Mantic did with Hellboy.
Would I say that Mantic had a harder job overall and their sculpts on the whole were more challenging than Mythics? Yes! They probably also had additional costs for the IP.
JOA VS Hellboy to coin a phrase is more "apples to snowballs" than Hellboy to Batttletech as JOA was a much smaller scale and probably had no IP costs. Overall it probably uses a similar amount of plastic to Hellboy. The Hellboy minis are right on par with the Battletech minis size wise so I feel they are much more comparable for content in the KS. If anything the JOA KS just reinforces how little Catalyst are offering in their campaign.
Look ultimately I am not looking for masses of minis in the Battletech KS, what I was looking for was a jump in minis quality. If Catalyst would put its reputation on the line and say that the minis you will get will be as good as those in the KS renders and be of a better quality plastic than those in the previous Beginners and Game of Armoured Combat sets I would be all over this like rash. I do value quality over quantity but I am just seeing neither in this KS and all the bulk of the stretch goals just seem to unlock more things you pay for. Add in the double forces BS and blind salvage packs and its even more of a turn off.
Chimaera wrote: Another thing I noticed on the Hellboy KS was a lot of challenge in the comments about what the minis quality was going to be like
That is because Mantic had used the same Hellboy PVC in their TWD KS game and said the same PVC was going to be used in their next KS campaigns for Star Saga, Terrain Crate and possibly KOW Vanguard(I dropped it, so not 100% sure on outcome) After the campaigns finished Mantic did a material swap for inferior PVC which pissed a lot of people off.
Personally after watching the video linked by Ghaz(iirc) i think these minis should be fine for the purpose intended.
I am unaware of those campaigns so couldn't really comment but can totally understand why there was challenge in their Hellboy KS and rightly so by the sounds of it. Equally though why aren’t BTKS backers challenging Catalyst to move up their standards in minis production.
Really nearly every Mech in that vid had some sort of issue to varying degrees, is that what a company who has minis in its game is happy to accept in this day and age? The plastic used also doesn't come across that great.
Never thought I’d see consistent referrals to Mantic for providing high quality material, but here we are...
TWD and Hellboy are reportedly good. Star Saga and Dungeon Saga are 5/10 at best. So they can provide perfection or garbage depending on what they feel like in a given month and often change things AFTER taking backer money, and you want to hold them up as paragons of “getting what was shown”?
Opinion is subjective of course, so keep ranting about Hellboy if you want, but I find the new ‘mechs to be of good quality and evidently I’m not alone in that opinion. There’s always retail if you are hesitant.
$600k unlocked the Great Houses for dice. For the Inner Sphere that really leaves Comstar/WoB and other minor or extinct powers waiting for dice. I guess FedCom as well as 600K did not appear to include them.
I can't wait for Star League mechs. Or for them to announce this lance/star's contents!
So far the packs have been structured really well. My favorite is the Clan Light Fire Star. The Peregrine (Horned Owl) and Vixen (Incubus) are just absolutely lovely mechs. And the Baboon is so goofy! I wasn't familiar with the Solitaire or Pack Hunter, but the rest are awesome! I have the old metal Peregrine. It might be time for it to be repainted once again!
Gitzbitah wrote: I can't wait for Star League mechs. Or for them to announce this lance/star's contents!
I imagine we won't see ComStar or any Star League 'mechs until the Kickstarter passes the $1 million mark (even though I would love to see an updated Spartan).
Gitzbitah wrote: I can't wait for Star League mechs. Or for them to announce this lance/star's contents!
I imagine we won't see ComStar or any Star League 'mechs until the Kickstarter passes the $1 million mark (even though I would love to see an updated Spartan).
I'd imagine the first 'mechs they'd do for the Star League/ComStar would be the Crab and Black Knight for sure. The other two (or four ) are anybody's guess.
Will the minis (especially the Marauder & Warhammer) be available for retail purchase after the KS or is the KS the only way to get them. That's really the only thing that matters to me, and if I can avoid dipping my feet back into KS, I'd prefer that.
You'll find a lot of hate. Shadowrun ended up being a mess by all accounts. I know that there is a risk CGL will have a repeat but it's something I'm ready to deal with.
The current Battletech kickstarter represents two major things: Firstly, an expansion to the introductory experience that also allows players old and new to obtain good quality (regardless of whatever completely unrelated game you're comparing them to) miniatures in the process. Secondly, those miniatures are, for the first time in the multiple decades of the games existence, being redesigned to fit a more modern aesthetic, which additionally allows several fan favourite models to be produced again for the first time since the original FASA court case.
CGL have already produced miniatures this way for an existing box set. There are no real unknowns involved with this process. They have gone through a series of iterations of the introductory box set in which the miniature quality has risen both in terms of materials and now design work. Equally, Catalyst cannot have missed the fact that there are quite a number of small companies and individual casters that have been making inroads into the Battletech miniature market with resin reproductions of the MWO-style designs.
I am far away from a CGL fanboy. They're a small company with plenty of shysters, and that has resulted in all kinds of annoyances when it comes to just being able to keep the older box sets in stock, let alone attempting to hock the skinny sub-Gashapon quality mechs of the mid-2000s intro box on us.
BUT. The recent "Game of Armored Combat" box set was pretty much everything the new Battletech box needed to be (hence why it instantly sold out). Of course it could have been better. CGL didn't suddenly turn into super badass risk-takers, but the miniatures were great redesigns. The kickstarter is simply going to do the same thing again while expanding that process to encompass many more new miniatures.
Asking them to attempt to up the current quality is basically asking for production delays in a process that is far from smooth to begin with, even when you have some level of experience already under your belt. Especially churlish when there's literally nothing fundamentally wrong with the current miniatures in the first place. That's manufacturing I'm afraid. I still get mispacks and the occasional miscast in GW stuff.
So, nah, I'd like my redesigned plastic Marauder and Archer miniatures, cheers.
ekwatts wrote: Secondly, those miniatures are, for the first time in the multiple decades of the games existence, being redesigned to fit a more modern aesthetic, which additionally allows several fan favourite models to be produced again for the first time since the original FASA court case.
I don't think can be emphasised enough.
There are some designs that have languished in exile for a very long time, and having them return with new designs that are far closer to the originals than the Project Phoenix (which were very hit and miss... and multi-part metal!) is a massive step in the right direction.
It also allows CGL to branch out into Clan 'Mechs for the first time, something they've been trying to do for the better part of a decade. Anything that increases the access for new players is a goal CGL needs to be aiming for, and all their recent products seem to be directed right at that goal.
Anybody can point me to the estimate release dates and if the KS will be shipped in waves? I thought that the plan was to release the Clan box plus the 1st stretch goals on March 2020 (KS usual delays notwithstanding) and then the remaining boxes taking at least one month of additional time, but that time was not going to upset the original schedule.
Now I'm reading in the CGL forums that the whole KS will be released in 2021 in one wave. I'm in just for the beginners box and the 1st two IS lance packs. I'm not going to wait a whole year or more for something that probably will be out on the stores sometime mid 2020.
If CGL foregoes KS waves I'm going to drop from the KS and buy it directly.
M.
Edit: The FAQ says there will be two or three waves, so either people are reading this wrong and I got confused or CGL has changed the deal, pray they don't change it further.
No one on the forums knows what they're talking about unless they have a Beemer and are specifically answering questions. Everything else is just noise.
The only official information seems to be that initial campaign stuff will come first, then as they make the rest there will probably be waves. I'm hoping for a "wait 'til it's done" option, especially as they have no Oceania hub.
It’s true, the new plastic is mediocre. For the price I think it’s fine, but if IWM were releasing metal versions of the same designs at the same time, I’d pay extra for those. (IronWind Metals will supposedly get access to CGL’s new designs, but it’ll take a while to turn those into minis - I think the Shadow Hawk is the only new design they’ve used so far.)
I didn’t get any miscasts, just lots of flash in a material that doesn’t take well at all to sanding or scraping. I had to cut it off with the sharp end of a knife and it took ages - especially because they’re preassembled so there are lots of hard to reach places. But I suppose it’s the right material if CGL is targeting non-hobbyists or new ones.
And that's when you remember that CTRL+F5 is your friend.
As another fantastic thank you for all you've done, you'll note that if you take either of the Level II Packs above as a reward, you're getting an extra miniature for free. Thank you!
Huh? Does that mean that the Lvl II's count as Lance Packs for the purposes of the rando-pack 'Mech?
And that's when you remember that CTRL+F5 is your friend.
As another fantastic thank you for all you've done, you'll note that if you take either of the Level II Packs above as a reward, you're getting an extra miniature for free. Thank you!
Huh? Does that mean that the Lvl II's count as Lance Packs for the purposes of the rando-pack 'Mech?
They will be drawn from the Clan Invasion and the first 2-4 Clan Star Packs. Basically, the ones that are done or will be done in time for the First Wave of product.
You can select the Level IIs as your reward pledges, so you're getting 6 'Mechs whereas otherwise the most you could get was 5, hence "'Mech for free".
That means I'm taking the two $30 boxes as my 'reward' pledges and buying the cheaper $25 Star packs.
Question - has there been any talk of new tech readouts like the old game had? Man I wore out a couple of the original 3025 Tech Readouts way back when - just loved that book with the really nice line art and all the details about each Mech.
The new line-art I have seen for the 2019 Mech redesigns would seem ideal for that purpose but so far I am not seeing that planned?
Picked up the current/newish box set and I am quite pleased with the minis - yes they are not Kingdom Death or GW level plastic but they aint $25 bucks a piece either. They seem very decent and I like the revisions and posing. Really dig the Thunderbolt and Awesome sculpts in particular.
Having them in hand really eased any worries about quality I was feeling personally about going in for some of the minis on this KS....
petrov27 wrote: Question - has there been any talk of new tech readouts like the old game had? Man I wore out a couple of the original 3025 Tech Readouts way back when - just loved that book with the really nice line art and all the details about each Mech.
The new line-art I have seen for the 2019 Mech redesigns would seem ideal for that purpose but so far I am not seeing that planned?
Picked up the current/newish box set and I am quite pleased with the minis - yes they are not Kingdom Death or GW level plastic but they aint $25 bucks a piece either. They seem very decent and I like the revisions and posing. Really dig the Thunderbolt and Awesome sculpts in particular.
Having them in hand really eased any worries about quality I was feeling personally about going in for some of the minis on this KS....
tech readouts are continuing to be produced. TRO 3025 was phased out and replaced with TRO 3039 (that combined the 3025, 3026 TROs with some new stuf) and I'd not be suprised to see a reissue of it that uses the new art. I think we're currently up to TRO 3150.
BrianDavion wrote: tech readouts are continuing to be produced. TRO 3025 was phased out and replaced with TRO 3039 (that combined the 3025, 3026 TROs with some new stuf) and I'd not be suprised to see a reissue of it that uses the new art. I think we're currently up to TRO 3150.
Any idea what the command lance/star boxes will go for?
Lance's are $20 and Stars are $25. They just announced two Comstar Level II boxes with one "free" mini, so I'm assuming that means the 6 mech Level II box will cost $25.
BrianDavion wrote: tech readouts are continuing to be produced. TRO 3025 was phased out and replaced with TRO 3039 (that combined the 3025, 3026 TROs with some new stuf) and I'd not be suprised to see a reissue of it that uses the new art. I think we're currently up to TRO 3150.
mdauben wrote: Lance's are $20 and Stars are $25. They just announced two Comstar Level II boxes with one "free" mini, so I'm assuming that means the 6 mech Level II box will cost $25.
They cost $30 each if you want to add them separately.
This is why you take them as your included packs, that's why there's a 6th mini for free.
The $950K stretch goal has been unlocked. All that remains right now is the $1 million dollar stretch goal with right around three and a half weeks to go.
clan mechs are a bit confusing because when the clan invasion first appered the clans didn't tell the Inner Sphere what their mech names where so the Inner Sphere developed reporting names for the first wave of clan omnimechs they discovered.you can often spot what someone's faction leanings are (Inner Sphere or clan) based on what they call the mechs. not always though, sometimes it's just a matter of what name they where introduced to the mechs under with folks who got into Battletech though Mechwarrior 2 having a tendancy to use the clan names,
BrianDavion wrote: sometimes it's just a matter of what name they where introduced to the mechs under with folks who got into Battletech though Mechwarrior 2 having a tendancy to use the clan names,
That was my boat, originally. Since MWO now I go back and forth.
I started out with MW2 but have started MOSTLY using their IS reporting names due to novels, and just general gameplay.. that said I occasionally swap out depending, some names are just cooler. Take the Artic Cheetah/Hankyu. one sounds like a awesome descriptor name, for such a fast hard hitting mech.. the other name sounds like a sneeze
Nurglitch wrote: So far the KS is missing the Stalker, the Urbanmech, and the Os-I-can't-believe-it's-not-a-Battlepod-mechs?
Yes. There's a fair number of 3050 'mechs which won't be updated via this Kickstarter (barring them being chosen by the backers via the $850K and $950K stretch goals).
