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Post by: Ghaz
From Warhammer Community:
Wherever we’re from in the world, and whichever armies we collect, something that unites Warhammer 40,000 fans is the love we have for our models. We build them, paint them and unleash them on the battlefield – they become a part of us, right? Sure, some of those models may be coated in the slightly-too-thick paint of a fledgeling hobbyist earning their stripes,* but we still love ‘em.
The inexorable march of time means some of these veteran miniatures eventually get left behind. As codexes are revised and editions (and eons) pass, classic models become unavailable, no longer finding their way into current publications. Rather than consign these battleworn relics to oblivion at the back of your shelves, however, we are happy to present them as Warhammer Legends.
The Warhammer 40,000 Legends page contains datasheets and additional wargear options, definitive profiles that will live on their own dedicated page, enabling you to unleash your treasured classics in open, narrative and matched play games, with full points provided to help you balance your games.
A word to the wise, however – these profiles will not be curated as part of the annual points review, and as such aren’t really intended for use in competitive play (unless, you know, you want to organise an event where Legends are welcome).
So, all that remains is to get over to the Warhammer Legends page and take a look at all the sweet datasheets there, then decide which model you’re going to dust off first.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/legends/
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Post by: changemod
No Necrons? We’re missing a ton of things,
A lot of the other pdfs seem really anaemic too.
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Post by: pm713
It feels a lot like the standard minimum effort to me.
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Post by: Carnikang
Tyranids got away with just Spike Rifles and Stranglewebs being moved there....
Perhaps there is hope for Sky Slashers and Shrikes.
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Post by: Polonius
pm713 wrote:It feels a lot like the standard minimum effort to me.
I get that, but what were you expecting beyond collecting all index options into a single pdf?
Since it's meant to provide datasheets for non-codex options that are no longer supported, we knew it wasn't going to be new content.
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Post by: OrkPlayer137
It's curious that the Ork Big Mek's KFF has been taken away, while at the same time Chapter Approved has an entry for a new model in the points table: "Big Mek with Kustom Force Field" (not the mega armour version, which is listed separately), even though there is no datasheet with that name. Either somebody at GW mistakenly thought there was a datasheet like that in the Ork Codex, or else there might be a new model on the way soon!
A couple of other annoyances: the Legends datasheets for older characters that have since been replaced with Primaris still have the same old name - it would have been better if they had renamed them to reduce confusion (e.g. adding "in Terminator Armour" to the old Marneus Calgar datasheet). Then the Space Marine Company Veteran sergeant on bike still can't take a storm shield, even though the rest of the squad can and the normal Company Veteran sergeant can.
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Post by: Ghaz
pm713 wrote:It feels a lot like the standard minimum effort to me.
Or this is ust the start with more to come in time.
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Post by: vim_the_good
I thought all the AM special characters that are no longer produced or have a codex entry would be in. Only rough riders?!
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Post by: techsoldaten
No Doomrider. The ultimate legend and they chose to ignore him.
*sigh* Maybe this means we will see him in an upcoming release.
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Post by: Polonius
 vim_the_good wrote:I thought all the AM special characters that are no longer produced or have a codex entry would be in. Only rough riders?!
They never had 8th edition rules. Cant' squat what's already been squatted.
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Post by: Lord Damocles
Deathwatch Dreadnought still can't take a Multi-Melta. Worst purging of options ever.
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Post by: Dr. Mills
You are still able to take a libby with storm shield. That's interesting.
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Post by: Bdrone
the AOS legends side is up as well, and... that PDF is huge. i don't know AoS but can someone explain that one?
(Edit) as im flipping through the 40k options, a whole lot of cutomizations for weapons took the brunt. by storm bolter sister superiors, and just about every canoness ranged variant.
Also, did you model power mauls or axes? double check, a lot of those for a few factions went clean out the window whilst on fire.
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Post by: solkan
Wow, that’s a weird way for GW to say “You’re not getting this option back.” 
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Post by: kodos
The rules presented here are designed to be definitive, and will only be updated when we change the core mechanics of the game. This means that Legends units are not designed for matched play (as they won’t, for example, have regular points updates)
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Post by: Polonius
Bdrone wrote:the AOS legends side is up as well, and... that PDF is huge. i don't know AoS but can someone explain that one?
Basically, huge chunks of old WFB armies won't have any active AOS support any more. When they switched over, everything (or nearly so) got a datasheet, and eventually points. As more and more stuff has moved to battletomes, the list of "fully supported" stuff has shrunk.
for example, the Cities of Sigmar book includes rules for what's left of Empire, Dwarfs, High Elves, non spirit Wood Elves, and non-khaine Dark Elves.
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Post by: Ghaz
Bdrone wrote:the AOS legends side is up as well, and... that PDF is huge. i don't know AoS but can someone explain that one?
Did you check the dates? The AoS Legends date from between March 2018 to March 2019 and only consists of five PDFs.
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Post by: Bdrone
fair enough, i hadn't seen the dates, i just clicked on the pdf, saw how huge it was and said
"wait, Skaven are still a thing in AoS. they still sell them. just how much stuff got tossed?"
I'm partial to them, so i was a bit shocked. i wonder how they play now.
(edit): and sorry any fan of LoTD, apparently.
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Post by: parakuribo
I was hoping Kranon and Felthius' gangs are in this, but well...
On a totally unrelated note, Can I have a battle forged army if it includes Flawless host and half of the Crimson Slaughter troops from DV in seperate batlegroups(minus the cultists)?
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Post by: Overread
Bdrone wrote:fair enough, i hadn't seen the dates, i just clicked on the pdf, saw how huge it was and said
"wait, Skaven are still a thing in AoS. they still sell them. just how much stuff got tossed?"
I'm partial to them, so i was a bit shocked. i wonder how they play now.
(edit): and sorry any fan of LoTD, apparently.
Skaven actually survived AoS almost fully intact. They even got the Warpfire thrower in metal re-released. I think the only thing actually missing is a few character leaders and the Warpglobe thrower. Almost everything else for skaven is in. Of course Skaven have a lot of metal and finecast and very early plastics in their range. So whilst they've made it into AoS and avoided the big culling that many armies experienced; they are also quite out of date in material terms. Though I'd say most of the leader/character metal models still stand the test of time really well - as do a good few of the other metals. Finecast is, of course, finecast with all its risks - whilst the early plastics you can still get in the "Island of Blood" skaven half on ebay if you're lucky - there's quite a few of those kits still kicking around in whole or in parts - though things ilke the rat ogres from it are quite expensive to pick up.
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Post by: BrookM
Was hoping for more character-wise, like Macharius and Gaunt, but hopefully in the future we may see them return.
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Post by: Polonius
 BrookM wrote:Was hoping for more character-wise, like Macharius and Gaunt, but hopefully in the future we may see them return.
I think it would be cool as well, but I'm not sure it meshes will with their overall approach of preserving index rules. Macharius hasn't had rules since IIRC the first 3rd edition, IG book and Gaunt lost his from the 3rd edition book in 5th edition.
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Post by: OrkPlayer137
No more Warboss on Warbike! Can only use the special character from Forgeworld now.
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Post by: sinthes
On page 12 of the ork legends document (not sure if it's the same for other legends documents) under wargear options it says "The datasheets from Codex: Orks that are listed below are updated as follows:" dose this mean that these wargear options only aply when using legends or is it an eratta adding these option too the codex? I'm more of a collecter then a player but have recently started getting into the game side of things so I am Just looking for some clarification.
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Post by: OrkPlayer137
 sinthes wrote:On page 12 of the ork legends document (not sure if it's the same for other legends documents) under wargear options it says "The datasheets from Codex: Orks that are listed below are updated as follows:" dose this mean that these wargear options only aply when using legends or is it an eratta adding these option too the codex? I'm more of a collecter then a player but have recently started getting into the game side of things so I am Just looking for some clarification.
It means you can use them only with Legends. Updates to the Codex will be in the Codex FAQ instead.
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Post by: BrianDavion
sinthes wrote:On page 12 of the ork legends document (not sure if it's the same for other legends documents) under wargear options it says "The datasheets from Codex: Orks that are listed below are updated as follows:" dose this mean that these wargear options only aply when using legends or is it an eratta adding these option too the codex? I'm more of a collecter then a player but have recently started getting into the game side of things so I am Just looking for some clarification.
'
yeah those war gear are legends only, so just for example, if a sister of battle sister superior uses a stormolter.. it's l;egends, nothing says you can't use it but GW's not taking into account that they can have stormbolters in future books, or with regards to points and isn't factoring them into balance so advises tournies agaisnt allowing it
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Post by: Polonius
also, not to get too cheeky, but models like Gaunt can be so easily repped with the current rules. With camo cloaks on characters having minimal value, he's pretty much a combination commissar/company commander. Which means you can run him as a commissar with master of command or a CC with Draconian discipline.
Solar is a bit trickier, of course, but I'd rep him as a non-psyker inquistiro with Formidable Resolve to give yourself a nice LD10 bubble.
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Post by: Crispy78
Part of me is a little disappointed that things like DE characters aren't listed. But a big part of me is pleasantly surprised that it's a free download rather than a paid-for book...
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Post by: LunarSol
Mangler Squigs got Legended? That seems completely bizarre given the new kit and the fact its part of two battalions.
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Post by: Grimtuff
Sooo.... looking through a few of the SM ones, it appears the WHW exclusive tanks have been moved to Legends. Quite odd seeing as they sell the product (albeit only at one location). I was under the impression this was for stuff that was OOP.
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Post by: Polonius
 Grimtuff wrote:Sooo.... looking through a few of the SM ones, it appears the WHW exclusive tanks have been moved to Legends. Quite odd seeing as they sell the product (albeit only at one location). I was under the impression this was for stuff that was OOP.
It's more broadly for things that were in an index, but are not in a codex or updated index. Most things got cut because they are OOP, but some of that is super recent. for example, the original Mephiston is in Legends despite the primaris model still being on preorder.
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Post by: Trimarius
 LunarSol wrote:Mangler Squigs got Legended? That seems completely bizarre given the new kit and the fact its part of two battalions.
They're both normal AoS and Legends. The Legends version is for the old O&G army (as that whole army got Legend-ed), just so everything is represented. You can still take them in a Gloomspite army.
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Post by: OrkPlayer137
No more Razorbacks with heavy flamers or lascannon with twin plasma.
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Post by: BrianDavion
We call it the immolator 
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Post by: Polonius
lascannon twin plas is legit old school. I had a few with my first space marine army.
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Post by: jeff white
A standard warboss in mega armor is going to legends, wtf?
srsly, wtf... so strange.
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Post by: SamusDrake
Thought it was going to be re-releases of the miniatures, but nevermind. Thats a cool looking Autarch model...
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Post by: jeff white
and the null rod. holy update.
srsly, why not simply add this to a new book?
humanity is lost.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
yeah i have an autarch with a warp generator on magnets, also with hawk wings on magnets, ...
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Post by: Captain Brown
Well those who still have Rough Riders will be happy.
Cheers,
CB
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Post by: jeff white
SamusDrake wrote:Thought it was going to be re-releases of the miniatures, but nevermind. Thats a cool looking Autarch model...
but on that page of the Craftworld PDF there is a pic of an avatar for some reason...
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Post by: Gadzilla666
 techsoldaten wrote:No Doomrider. The ultimate legend and they chose to ignore him.
*sigh* Maybe this means we will see him in an upcoming release.
Gw will never be that cool again.
Although we did ge a noise marine with a guitar-bolter so....
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Post by: Grimtuff
SamusDrake wrote:Thought it was going to be re-releases of the miniatures, but nevermind. Thats a cool looking Autarch model...
Said Autarch mini used in the article was a limited edition one from the Eldar army box circa 4th ed.
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Post by: Imateria
Crispy78 wrote:Part of me is a little disappointed that things like DE characters aren't listed. But a big part of me is pleasantly surprised that it's a free download rather than a paid-for book...
I'm not sure why you thought that would be a thing, those characters haven't had rules since the very start of 7th. The whole point of Legends is to move old index options to an easy to access place, not create new rules for units we lst well before 8th.
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Post by: cuda1179
 Polonius wrote: BrookM wrote:Was hoping for more character-wise, like Macharius and Gaunt, but hopefully in the future we may see them return.
I think it would be cool as well, but I'm not sure it meshes will with their overall approach of preserving index rules. Macharius hasn't had rules since IIRC the first 3rd edition, IG book and Gaunt lost his from the 3rd edition book in 5th edition.
Actually they did update his rules as a download (along with Nork) right after the 5th edition codex dropped. I loved that as I could whip him out once again. Still hoping that one day they will do rules for the 12 Schafer's Last Chancers as a stand-alone army with tons of special rules.
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Post by: LunarSol
 Trimarius wrote: LunarSol wrote:Mangler Squigs got Legended? That seems completely bizarre given the new kit and the fact its part of two battalions.
They're both normal AoS and Legends. The Legends version is for the old O&G army (as that whole army got Legend-ed), just so everything is represented. You can still take them in a Gloomspite army.
Ah, got it. I hadn't bothered to look at the keywords. Mentally I saw the PDF as a collection of units from armies containing those kinds of models.
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Post by: cuda1179
changemod wrote:No Necrons? We’re missing a ton of things,
A lot of the other pdfs seem really anaemic too.
I would kill to have Pariahs back. Sure we can proxy them as other things.... but it's just not the same.
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Post by: Voss
Grimtuff wrote:Sooo.... looking through a few of the SM ones, it appears the WHW exclusive tanks have been moved to Legends. Quite odd seeing as they sell the product (albeit only at one location). I was under the impression this was for stuff that was OOP.
Makes sense to me. Including that stuff in the first place did nothing but confuse people when the indexes came out.
It isn't something most people have, and all it did was raise questions about the 'Rhino Primaris' not being able to carry Primaris marines.
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Post by: Irbis
Grimtuff wrote:Sooo.... looking through a few of the SM ones, it appears the WHW exclusive tanks have been moved to Legends. Quite odd seeing as they sell the product (albeit only at one location). I was under the impression this was for stuff that was OOP.
I have a sneaking suspicion they didn't tell the intern writing this about them and he/she/it only checked the website.
So, Legion of the Damned is squat? Pity, I hoped they would develop them into mini Imperial quasi-daemon faction...
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Post by: mightymconeshot
I find it weird honor guard for Space Marines are now in legends. I am finishing up a meeting, but I am 95% sure they are in Ultramarines supplement.
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Post by: Polonius
mightymconeshot wrote:I find it weird honor guard for Space Marines are now in legends. I am finishing up a meeting, but I am 95% sure they are in Ultramarines supplement.
they are ultras only there though, and they may have possibly been options for other chapters in the past.
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Post by: OrkPlayer137
The Terminus Ultra datasheet has been updated - now it can be taken for any Chapter. It was locked to the Ultramarines in the Index.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
I could understand this if it were a collection of older unit types and whatnot, even ancient minis like Chaplain on Bike and things that technically never existed in mini-form (like Librarians on bikes) but so much of it is just wargear options. It's like the most stark confirmation of "No model, no rule" I've ever seen.
They don't make a miniature with that exact specific combinations of weapons anymore, so they're not part of the regular game! You get a "special" set of segregated rules.
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Post by: Racerguy180
Gadzilla666 wrote: techsoldaten wrote:No Doomrider. The ultimate legend and they chose to ignore him.
*sigh* Maybe this means we will see him in an upcoming release.
Gw will never be that cool again.
Although we did ge a noise marine with a guitar-bolter so....
There still is hope, fleeting as it may be, but hope nonetheless.
Doomrider kicks ass & the limited Noise Marine is one their best models in a while. Its a really good balance between old school & "modern" GW. just enuff RT insanity....
mightymconeshot wrote:I find it weird honor guard for Space Marines are now in legends. I am finishing up a meeting, but I am 95% sure they are in Ultramarines supplement.
that would make them Ultra specific rather than something my Salamanders can make use of, right?
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Post by: Nevelon
I’m a little irritated that if this is their “final” points and they are not going to update them, they didn’t even bother to check to see how they matched up with current minis.
For example, it’s nice that they have the rules for old versions of Calgar. But they just kept the old points. You can play with your old ones, at 235/250 points, or the new, vastly superior one, for 200.
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Post by: JohnnyHell
There was never going to be any effort put in... not sure why you expected any updates tbh. It’s simply a way to garner goodwill by ‘allowing’ use of older models going forward, whilst taking the Indexes OOP.
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Post by: BrianDavion
 JohnnyHell wrote:There was never going to be any effort put in... not sure why you expected any updates tbh. It’s simply a way to garner goodwill by ‘allowing’ use of older models going forward, whilst taking the Indexes OOP.
yeah, this just just GW moving the drabs left over from the indexes into a new format, and offically telling people "no we're not going to provide rules support for this going forward"
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Post by: OrkPlayer137
They forgot the FAQ update for Legion of the Damned that allows them to be taken in a detachment without an HQ!
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Post by: BrianDavion
OrkPlayer137 wrote:They forgot the FAQ update for Legion of the Damned that allows them to be taken in a detachment without an HQ!
not a biiiig deal TBH given that legends will be almost exclusively used by fluff bunnies and folks just wanting to have fun, and not by die hard WAAC types who'd push for that to screw over other players I guess
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Post by: Salted Diamond
I would have preferred they kept them in the codex. Especially with armies like GSC having their dirt bikes why couldn’t guard get similar. But oh well. I can still field my 3 squads of rough riders (running 30 of them around the board never gets old).
*edit*. My FLGS just posted that legends units WILL be legal in store events
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Post by: Galef
Twin Autocannon for Dreads dropped to 20ppm. They were 33ppm in the index. That's a big drop, especially running 2 of them per Dread.
-
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Post by: mightymconeshot
True for other chapters, but wouldn't ultramarines not be allowed to use it as you should use the most current data-slate?
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Post by: Tetsu0
I was under the impression we would get new points, since they said they would not be updating them afterwards. It's just a copy paste from index, bummer
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Post by: Ghaz
Tetsu0 wrote:I was under the impression we would get new points, since they said they would not be updating them afterwards. It's just a copy paste from index, bummer
From Warhammer Community:
With so much awesome stuff on the way for Warhammer 40,000, you might be wondering what’s happening to some of the treasured older models that previously had rules in our Index books. While these might not have a place in our codexes any more, we know that they definitely have a place in your hearts, which is why you’ll be delighted to hear that we’ll be supporting them FOREVER with Warhammer Legends.
Your Imperial Space Marine? Rules, FOREVER. Your Chaplain on Bike? You can use him until actual Space Marine Chaplains on actual Space Marine bikes are invented in the year 30,000.** And, to top it all off, they’ll be getting points, meaning if that’s how you like to balance your games, we’ve got you covered.
Every year, we review all of the points values (for all of the units) in Warhammer 40,000. We won’t be doing this for the Warhammer Legends, though. Once we’ve assigned them their final points, they won’t be part of that ongoing balance review – and we won’t be recommending Legends units for competitive tournaments. This means that event organisers and attendees alike can guarantee everything they’re gaming with is easily available and has been subject to the same rigorous balance and playtesting process. Of course, organisers are also free to run Legends events, allowing the use of the full classic range in their games.
Nope. Nothing about updated points in either this or today's article or being a part of the process of them assigning the points.
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Post by: Galef
 Ghaz wrote:Tetsu0 wrote:I was under the impression we would get new points, since they said they would not be updating them afterwards. It's just a copy paste from index, bummer
From Warhammer Community:
With so much awesome stuff on the way for Warhammer 40,000, you might be wondering what’s happening to some of the treasured older models that previously had rules in our Index books. While these might not have a place in our codexes any more, we know that they definitely have a place in your hearts, which is why you’ll be delighted to hear that we’ll be supporting them FOREVER with Warhammer Legends.
Your Imperial Space Marine? Rules, FOREVER. Your Chaplain on Bike? You can use him until actual Space Marine Chaplains on actual Space Marine bikes are invented in the year 30,000.** And, to top it all off, they’ll be getting points, meaning if that’s how you like to balance your games, we’ve got you covered.
Every year, we review all of the points values (for all of the units) in Warhammer 40,000. We won’t be doing this for the Warhammer Legends, though. Once we’ve assigned them their final points, they won’t be part of that ongoing balance review – and we won’t be recommending Legends units for competitive tournaments. This means that event organisers and attendees alike can guarantee everything they’re gaming with is easily available and has been subject to the same rigorous balance and playtesting process. Of course, organisers are also free to run Legends events, allowing the use of the full classic range in their games.
Nope. Nothing about updated points in either this or today's article or being a part of the process of them assigning the points.
Twin Autocannons for Dreadnoughts did go down. They were 33ppm in the Index, but now they are 20ppm
I also think the blades on a disc of Tzeentch went from 2ppm to 0. So there are indeed changes
-
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Post by: Ghaz
I didn't say that there weren't changes, just that GW did not promise a complete update of all of the points in the Legends PDFs.
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Post by: Galef
Ghaz wrote:I didn't say that there weren't changes, just that GW did not promise a complete update of all of the points in the Legends PDFs.
oh, sorry, I was intending to add to what you said, not refute it. Tetsu0 said there weren't changes, you astutly pointed out that GW never promised any and I added that there are changes if you look for them.
-
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Post by: Hankovitch
"We noticed you ork players were insistent on using the index versions of HQ units, despite the Deffkilla Wartrike which we told you to buy. So we are forced to remove those options from matched play. You wanted an invuln save? Buy a Morkanaut. You want faction support? We suggest buying this Primaris Space Marines starter box."
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Post by: Tetsu0
 Galef wrote: Ghaz wrote:Tetsu0 wrote:I was under the impression we would get new points, since they said they would not be updating them afterwards. It's just a copy paste from index, bummer
From Warhammer Community:
With so much awesome stuff on the way for Warhammer 40,000, you might be wondering what’s happening to some of the treasured older models that previously had rules in our Index books. While these might not have a place in our codexes any more, we know that they definitely have a place in your hearts, which is why you’ll be delighted to hear that we’ll be supporting them FOREVER with Warhammer Legends.
Your Imperial Space Marine? Rules, FOREVER. Your Chaplain on Bike? You can use him until actual Space Marine Chaplains on actual Space Marine bikes are invented in the year 30,000.** And, to top it all off, they’ll be getting points, meaning if that’s how you like to balance your games, we’ve got you covered.
Every year, we review all of the points values (for all of the units) in Warhammer 40,000. We won’t be doing this for the Warhammer Legends, though. Once we’ve assigned them their final points, they won’t be part of that ongoing balance review – and we won’t be recommending Legends units for competitive tournaments. This means that event organisers and attendees alike can guarantee everything they’re gaming with is easily available and has been subject to the same rigorous balance and playtesting process. Of course, organisers are also free to run Legends events, allowing the use of the full classic range in their games.
Nope. Nothing about updated points in either this or today's article or being a part of the process of them assigning the points.
Twin Autocannons for Dreadnoughts did go down. They were 33ppm in the Index, but now they are 20ppm
I also think the blades on a disc of Tzeentch went from 2ppm to 0. So there are indeed changes
-
To Ghaz: Well the part how they say they will be getting points is what mislead me. These units already had points in the index.
To Galef: Oh I see, a few lucky ones actually got changes. I didn't see any from the four factions I was interested in.
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Post by: Ghaz
Tetsu0 wrote:To Ghaz: Well the part how they say they will be getting points is what mislead me. These units already had points in the index.
Legends is a replacement for the Indexes, but Legends is not the Indexes. If they didn't say that Legends would have points then they would have had numerous people asking if Legends had points.
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Post by: warboss
Lol, the Inquisition download is a single piece of wargear.
I'm a bit sad as an old time IG player that rough riders are there as I haven't kept up with the rules for the past two editions. It was a bit of a surprise for me although I should have guessed.
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Post by: H.B.M.C.
 warboss wrote:Lol, the Inquisition download is a single piece of wargear.
Would it have killed them to include that in the WD list?
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Post by: mortar_crew
Well at last I can say Kommandos have their heavy weapons and
tankbusta bombs back! 
The buggy is back as well.
As an ork player I can say it is a postive move.
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Post by: warboss
 H.B.M.C. wrote: warboss wrote:Lol, the Inquisition download is a single piece of wargear.
Would it have killed them to include that in the WD list?
No, it wouldn't have. I haven't seen the WD list so can't comment on the width and breadth so hopefully only having one piece of wargear is a reflection of how complete it is. That's just wishful thinking though on my part. Deathwatch is similarly lean with just a smattering of combi-weapon options for two characters.
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Post by: Rismonite
I'm missing something. Shouldn't the Big Mek entry for Ork legends include a KFF?
I have this Big Mek with KFF at home does he have rules?
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Post by: casvalremdeikun
Rhino Primaris when down 100 pts...
Edit: Maybe. It went down from 100 pts base to 52 pts base and the twin plasma gun went from 20 pts to 22 pts. The orbital array does not have points listed in the new document, so how does that work?
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
So Guard lost their power mauls and axes, which kinda sucks since that's every power weapon in my army. Whatever, they count as swords now.
Maybe a sign that GW will go back to the days of power weapons are power weapons and lose the annoying minuet of minor rule differences?
Probably not, no doubt this is just because the plastic command squad only includes swords.
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Post by: tneva82
changemod wrote:No Necrons? We’re missing a ton of things,
A lot of the other pdfs seem really anaemic too.
What units/options from 8th ed index that aren't in codex are missing? Automatically Appended Next Post: Galef wrote:Twin Autocannons for Dreadnoughts did go down. They were 33ppm in the Index, but now they are 20ppm
I also think the blades on a disc of Tzeentch went from 2ppm to 0. So there are indeed changes
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Didn't autocannons go down in ca2018 or previous faq? Might misremember as i don"t use it Automatically Appended Next Post:  Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Probably not, no doubt this is just because the plastic command squad only includes swords.
Bingo.
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Post by: Andykp
How long to the ymdc thread is full of people claiming you can’t these units in match play games and the like then?
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Post by: tneva82
Well you can use them in matched play about as much as you can run 6 detachments or 6 flying hive tyrants Rulewise all 3 are as valid as others.
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Post by: TwilightSparkles
I have faith LoTD will return, they are referenced in recent Lore and the Heresy series so, in some form, they'll be back. This release is mainly to squat the indexes out of production.
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Post by: Kid_Kyoto
The Legion of the Damned will cross the primaris Rubicon mark my words. Legion of Primaris Damned, 2021
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Post by: Andykp
tneva82 wrote:Well you can use them in matched play about as much as you can run 6 detachments or 6 flying hive tyrants Rulewise all 3 are as valid as others.
Exactly but I bet it isn’t long before they go the same way as “rule of 3”. 
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Post by: Sunny Side Up
Andykp wrote:tneva82 wrote:Well you can use them in matched play about as much as you can run 6 detachments or 6 flying hive tyrants Rulewise all 3 are as valid as others.
Exactly but I bet it isn’t long before they go the same way as “rule of 3”.
Probably a lot quicker. The rule of 3 comes with the explicit recommendation to modify and play with it as you see fit, and there are some (if rare) tournaments which tinker with those limitations, moving them up or down a bit, such as Adepticons Highlander, etc.. as recommended.
The Legends recommendation doesn't even come with the note to TOs to "don't take this as scripture, modify it to your need" (not that you'd technically need that "permission" to modify it). It'll probably be soon as standard as the "4'x6' table-size"-recommendation.
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Post by: AngryAngel80
Why exactly would I/them be happy ? Having a beloved unit consigned to the trash bin of history with a 0 effort update that didn't touch point values as really they are too pricey at 10 pts with standard gear, and only the worlds smallest nerf, losing one inch from the out flank going from 7 inch from board edge to 6 inch instead.
I mean I guess if someone didn't have the index, it's nice they got the rules some where but not touching the points is a pretty big F U to those who still have rough riders. Automatically Appended Next Post: tneva82 wrote:Well you can use them in matched play about as much as you can run 6 detachments or 6 flying hive tyrants Rulewise all 3 are as valid as others.
Yeah except one of those things is a horrid un fun game, another is using say a chaplain on a bike, or some rough riders. I've never had, and don't ever think I'll play someone who would be like " What ? Legends men on horses ?..I don't think so..that ain't legal chief ! "
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Post by: tneva82
Pay to win is not fun. There's plenty of good options that help you in legends. That you would need to buy at ebay over inflated price.
There's just as valid reason to ban legend as is with multiple detachments and multiple datasheets. Both which can be used in non-broken way as well if you don't just focus on worst abuse. But if you focus on worse abuse there's that for legends as well.
If you start banning one but not the other you are just trying to manipulate game for your advantage rather than trying to be fair.
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Post by: AngryAngel80
I know, thank god GW banned my 10 point humans on horses, or characters on bike, now I can finally sleep at night, free from the nightmares of their pay to win power.
What are these super op abuses that have been ripping up the tournament scenes world wide exactly ?
I could point out this whole game is pay to win bro, drop the cash on OP flavor of the month faction, rock it out, wash rinse repeat, most of these Legends options are not pay to win or even hard for just about every player to make. Unless the cost of one bike, modeling a marine onto is pay to win, or guards on horses is, or you are fearing a massed charge of guard with power axes, etc, etc, etc.
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Post by: tneva82
Ah yes focus on thos e10 point human on horses etc And I can focus on the non abusive ways to use more than 3 datasheets and detachments.
ah well. Arquing with dishonest arquer is waste of time.
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Post by: AngryAngel80
Ah I see, you don't have any great abuses of these oh so scary Legends. If there is something dishonest, it's your personal thoughts that in any way the say 98% of these Legends come close to the pay to win nature of current models or armies in easy circulation today.
You give me 0 things from it that are tearing up the meta on the list, in fact two of the only ones I can even imagine that players might take often, may be the Warboss on Bike, or Big Mek with KFF and I don't see Orks ripping up and down the tournament scene with them.
The waste of time is you trying to say that somehow these units on this are at all about balance concerns.
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Post by: Eldarsif
I am actually kinda happy they finished doing this to keep the game on an even level. Even if it means all of my autarchs, Trueborn, and my blaster archons are Legends now.
To be fair I used to play card games and am pretty used to things being phased out over time.
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Post by: AngryAngel80
Yeah you don't spend quite so many hours modeling and painting the cards in card games. I mean people can take from this what they will won't bother my games in the slightest, the actual OP things will be the " legit "current models anyways.
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Post by: Eldarsif
Technically this should only affect Match Play such as ITC.
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Post by: Lord Damocles
Yeah, I sure am glad that GW has saved us all from the Pay2Win tyranny of Null Rod oppression which we were obviously all very concerned about until now.
I'm sure it took a real big think to solve that problem.
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Post by: Tyranid Horde
I think if they'd phrased this process as a rotation rather than shifting everything without a model on the website into legends for good it might have gained a better response. It would allow for models in the future to be made with the same loadouts and let those with the older models use them and be happy to break out their older models again.
I think it's a good thing that they're doing this, but the way they've gone about it is perhaps not the best.
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Post by: YeOldSaltPotato
I'd rather they be honest, but really nothing about this stops them from making a new model using the gear, they're just finally being quite upfront about no longer supporting models from 10+ years ago.
Personally I'd kill to have rules for power swords on my acolytes, but they didn't go that far back in the minis catalog.
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Post by: Andykp
Nothing has actually really changed, all these units can still be used in all three ways to play, GW have just consolidated them into one place. If TOs want to ban things that’s up to them GW hasn’t binned anything at all. It’s all still legal.
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Post by: Argive
As far as I can tell the core rules FAQ flowchart still applies for this edition.. Just saying.. A self-contradicting community article with some no effort PDF seems a bit. meh...
I can sort of understand entire units/models not being supported. As much as I love the idea of Bonesingers.. But wargear options?
Selective no model no rules mantra rearing its ugly head again. ARent relics basically random wargear ?
Apparently making up relics wholesale for some factions with no modeling representations requirement, and adverse rules consequences are fine but minor wargear options for others clearly need to be represented by model stuff...
"Isn't this cool guys!? This new space marines get a magic stone that gives everything an invuln save and it doesn't even need represnatation on models but if your warlord wants to charge without overwatch.. tut... tut... tut..."
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Post by: warboss
Kid_Kyoto wrote:The Legion of the Damned will cross the primaris Rubicon mark my words. Legion of Primaris Damned, 2021
Given some of the empassioned response to primaris initially, would it not be more apt to call them Legion of the Damn Primaris?
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Post by: OrkPlayer137
 Rismonite wrote:I'm missing something. Shouldn't the Big Mek entry for Ork legends include a KFF?
I have this Big Mek with KFF at home does he have rules?
Something strange is going on with the Big Mek - they took the KFF away from the Big Mek, while leaving it for the Big Mek on the bike. At the same time, Chapter Approved 2019 has a points entry for a datasheet called "Big Mek with Kustom Force Field". There is no such datasheet, as the KFF was included as an option on the standard Big Mek datasheet in the old Index, and the Mega Armour Big Mek is listed separately. So I can see two possibilities: 1) somebody at GW thought that there is a "Big Mek with Kustom Force Field" datasheet in the Codex when there isn't or 2) perhaps we can expect a new model and a new datasheet soon.
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Post by: Slayer-Fan123
tneva82 wrote:Ah yes focus on thos e10 point human on horses etc And I can focus on the non abusive ways to use more than 3 datasheets and detachments.
ah well. Arquing with dishonest arquer is waste of time.
Then point out what in Legends is a problem then. I'll wait.
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Post by: AngryAngel80
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:tneva82 wrote:Ah yes focus on thos e10 point human on horses etc And I can focus on the non abusive ways to use more than 3 datasheets and detachments.
ah well. Arquing with dishonest arquer is waste of time.
Then point out what in Legends is a problem then. I'll wait.
I think you'll be waiting awhile, better settle in with a snack and a drink, maybe a good book or 10 ?
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Post by: Slayer-Fan123
AngryAngel80 wrote:Slayer-Fan123 wrote:tneva82 wrote:Ah yes focus on thos e10 point human on horses etc And I can focus on the non abusive ways to use more than 3 datasheets and detachments.
ah well. Arquing with dishonest arquer is waste of time.
Then point out what in Legends is a problem then. I'll wait.
I think you'll be waiting awhile, better settle in with a snack and a drink, maybe a good book or 10 ?
I'm a very advanced reader. Better make that 12.
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