so Plastic Howling Banshees, plastic Incubi, Jain Zar, and Drazhar are all up for pre-order next weekend. about time

While I won't be buying any, I'm ready to laugh at the price of the Howling Banshees.

Five toughness three models, costing around, what 50-60 points for a box...at minimum, $35 a pop...or $70 for ten, costing even more than a box of Primaris marines, etc.

Worst case scenario, a $40-45 box....making it comically priced for infantry models. Still better than finecast, but making a 2000 point army hilarious to even consider if you wanted to go infantry heavy - assuming all the Aspects follow this trend.

Would love to be surprised and somehow get a larger box for less...but I doubt we'll see it.

 Elbows wrote:
Five toughness three models, costing around, what 50-60 points for a box...at minimum, $35 a pop...or $70 for ten, costing even more than a box of Primaris marines, etc.

Given that they think a box of 10 guardians should cost the same as 5 dire avengers, yea, i expect them to be over priced.

Guessing AUD$70 for both the special characters.

So glad I bitz ordered Drazah when he was first released. And the Incubi.

Well they could be in the primaris sniper Ballpark of ridicoulousness.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Well they could be in the primaris sniper Ballpark of ridicoulousness.

Do you mean price, or rules?

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Well they could be in the primaris sniper Ballpark of ridicoulousness.

Do you mean price, or rules?

Truck question ,the answer is both,well actually no, the new banshees are ok,not nuts

Not Online!!! wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Well they could be in the primaris sniper Ballpark of ridicoulousness.

Do you mean price, or rules?

Truck question ,the answer is both,well actually no, the new banshees are ok,not nuts

You mean okay aesthetically ?

The 2nd hand market seemed to have reacted rapidly to the news. The only banshees from BOTP I can see are already costed at £31.99 From about (21.99, 18.99 cheapest)
This will make botp box set seem like GWs deal of the century lol..

I think anyone who has wanted the new banshees has already got them. And those that haven't gone the 2nd market route are about to complain bitterly about how stupidity expensive these are.

I'm estimating £25 price tag for 5 banshees.
£20 for Jainzar.

If they do a box of 10 Ill probably pick another one up as Id like to run 20.

Nah rulewise, limited experience though only on reseveing End

They are cheap chaff speedbumps. I use storm guardians though and they perform a similar role while giving me CP and are like half the pts..

They simply cannot be relevant with 2 attacks at Strength 3, even with power swords. Unless you treat them as a distraction unit (running around, hoping to tie up units) they're simply nothing in a game where cheaper units are throwing 3-4-5 attacks a turn. That and Striking Scorpions just became far better with a 5+ mortal wound ability now.

Yes. But I think all they need is D3 dmg which make them interesting. You can thrown in a doom and some custom traits and all of a sudden you hit quite hard. One can dream, though lol.

Realistically, I will stick with my squad of old metal Banshees. I got them cheaper than Finecast off Ebay, and I love the old sculpts. Aspect warriors aged fantastically compared to other models from that time.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Realistically, I will stick with my squad of old metal Banshees. I got them cheaper than Finecast off Ebay, and I love the old sculpts. Aspect warriors aged fantastically compared to other models from that time.

this is proably why GW took so long to do plastic aspect warriors.

They still missed a massive opportunity by not doing them as dual kits.

Imagine if the Banshee kit had also made Hawks. That super-duper-overpriced battlebox they put out might've been more interesting if you got 5 Banshees and 5 Hawks rather than damned dinky Vyper.

Yep, but that also screws over new players and people unaware with the history of miniatures. All a new player sees is expensive, garbage-ass finecast...it's for this reason I can't even recommend a new player starting Craftworlds Eldar as an army.

I built my whole army of eBay rescued metals from the 90's, but I don't imagine "most" players, particularly younger ones new to wargaming or the game of Warhammer 40K will go that route. Also, the issue here (for me) is that they chose a really useless Aspect to start with new plastic ones...and then placed them in an atrociously expensive boxed set, coupled with ancient plastic units which aren't popular.

Now if they release Banshees (a unit no one takes anyway) for $40-45 a box....no one is going to buy them and they'll think "Well, I guess we don't need to risk assets on more plastic aspect warriors...", etc.

I'm expecting $70 (AUD) for the characters which is the standard for single special characters these days.

The optimist in me says $55 (AUD) for the Banshees and Incubi which would be consistent with other 5 man boxes like Immortals and Dire Avengers.

 NurglesR0T wrote:
The optimist in me says $55 (AUD) for the Banshees and Incubi which would be consistent with other 5 man boxes like Immortals and Dire Avengers.

Which means they'll be $65, as they're much newer.

Well price complains starting didn't take long as usual

It's not as if they're not justified...so what's the big deal?

Justified?

Discussions and complaints about the prices are 100% justified. It's not some taboo or illegal subject to discuss and is relevant to the players of the game yes?

When GW hasn't even released the fething price yes it is too early.

I expect they'll be about the price of most boxed infantry, about 55-60 USDs GW's pricing recently has been mostly consistant. ther big question is "how many in a box?"

BrianDavion wrote:
When GW hasn't even released the fething price yes it is too early.

Oh please. GW follows weird patterns, and whilst they may be prone to changing horses midway through their races, when it comes to prices it's always safe to assume that they'll either be the same as the bat gak crazy prices that they are now (ie. AUD$70 for a single plastic character) or they'll somehow be higher.

As for how many in a box? 5. If there are 10 I will be beside myself with amazement, although in that case the kit would likely be be AUD$96 like the new Sisters.

 Elbows wrote:
Discussions and complaints about the prices are 100% justified. It's not some taboo or illegal subject to discuss and is relevant to the players of the game yes?

My bad. I thought you meant the prices were 100% justified.

Well...the price is also the only thing to talk about in this thread is it not? We know what the models are, and we know their codex entry...and their slight changes in Psychic Awakening. We're not expecting any rules changes or additional stuff, correct?

The sprues from the boxed set included five models, one of which was an Exarch - and I'm not entirely sure, but I don't believe you could field that model as a normal Banshee (can someone confirm?) Regardless it would be unlike GW to produce a kit with dual Exarch options, so you're going to get five models in a kit, most likely. Would it be awesome if the kit was 7 to 10 models and an additional sprue or two was added to make it a full unit? Yes, but we've seen from numerous other lines of models that "Elite" style units tend to be sold five to a box instead of 10.

$35 is the cost of five Dire Avengers (a box which used to contain ten but was cut in half...for...reasons). So at the very best we could expect the five models from the Blood of the Phoenix box in a solo box for $35. However, new sculpts, new models, and GW has increased the price of models pretty consistently almost every year or two, so a $40 or $45 price tag is not out of the question.

In an ideal world, would it be a box of 10 for $60 or under? Perhaps, but I don't see it happening. Very worst case is they follow the Sisters of Battle Retributor cost of $55 per five models (ignoring the two cherubs). I don't think we'd be that unlucky.

The annoying part is that, regardless of how nice a figure is...paying $35-45 for five single wound Toughness 3 models in 4+ armour is an enthusiasm killer. My concern, as voiced above, is that Banshees, being mediocre and potentially very expensive for their tabletop ability will lead to fewer sales and may damage future plans for plastic Aspect warriors.

It'll be 50US$, have you not been seeing their pricing recently?

The last multipart 40k/aos kit that was priced at 35$ is Stormcast Vanguard Raptor, from 2017.

 Elbows wrote:
Discussions and complaints about the prices are 100% justified. It's not some taboo or illegal subject to discuss and is relevant to the players of the game yes?

Would be nice if complaining would at least start once prices are known rather than day before.

It would be nice if complaining about prices started so early and loudly that it affected the entire customer base and GW was forced to address it.

People have complained about GW prices for minimum of 24 years(how long I have been playing GW games. Can't comment on before that).

Good luck getting early and loud enough. 24 years of non stop complaining is clearly too late and too quiet.

The only things that'd make them change the price is a dip in sale and profit, I don't see that number going down any time soon.

GW models are expensive?! Stop the press! Let me note down this hot take before I forget.

This is going to be an unpopular opinion but it has to be said I think. In this thread we see Eldar players already making excuses for not buying the latest plastic aspect warrior sculpts before they are even released separately. I distinctly remember a thread whose participants all claimed that the primary reason Craftworld players did not invest in the new Banshees was because they were released in an expensive boxed set with less desirable units. Now they’re going to be released separately and it looks to me like most people here are making new excuses (largely around the price, that we don’t know yet) for why they won’t be purchasing.

It is exactly this reason that GW will take forever to update the Craftworld line. Craftworld players are proving there is no market for plastic sculpts of existing models. That is a shame.

tneva82 wrote:
People have complained about GW prices for minimum of 24 years(how long I have been playing GW games. Can't comment on before that).

Good luck getting early and loud enough. 24 years of non stop complaining is clearly too late and too quiet.

And I suspect people have been complaining about people complaining for almost as long.

Didn't take long for the GW bootlicking to start. It's the customers' fault they don't want to buy what GW produces!

Anyway, I wonder if the sudden release of all previously box-hostage models (AoS heroes last weekend, now this) and lack of Seraphon release is related to printed material/terrain kits being made in China, which is pretty much closed down due to the epidemic.

Cronch wrote:
Anyway, I wonder if the sudden release of all previously box-hostage models (AoS heroes last weekend, now this) and lack of Seraphon release is related to printed material/terrain kits being made in China, which is pretty much closed down due to the epidemic.

"We'd love to bring you that awesome looking Seraphon Ziggurat that we previewed a few weeks ago, but apparently things went a bit awry at the ol' Umbrella Disease Research Lab and now we can just bring you things that were exclusive to boxes in the past 18 months."

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It is exactly this reason that GW will take forever to update the Craftworld line. Craftworld players are proving there is no market for plastic sculpts of existing models. That is a shame.

Well GW did kind of feth up the release, first by doing some massive hype work for weeks as if some plastic elves is second coming of Khaine himself, then locking them in a box with units nobody wants (+something something australian problems), plus the said aspect and Phoenix Lords never getting any eye catching rules which would make competetive players running around saying how meta is dead, and so on. The butthurt over Jain not getting an invul qualified for GW having to remove comments etc.

If they simply did the hype train and "here's the minis, preorder now", certainly release would have went better.

Remember, a lot of CW is still gak-cast with jacked up prices, so now they're testing the patience of already very salty community, and "here'5 banshees for price of 5 mega marines" won't do them any more favours.

(Not that I believe they care or anything lol)

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
GW models are expensive?! Stop the press! Let me note down this hot take before I forget.

This is going to be an unpopular opinion but it has to be said I think. In this thread we see Eldar players already making excuses for not buying the latest plastic aspect warrior sculpts before they are even released separately. I distinctly remember a thread whose participants all claimed that the primary reason Craftworld players did not invest in the new Banshees was because they were released in an expensive boxed set with less desirable units. Now they’re going to be released separately and it looks to me like most people here are making new excuses (largely around the price, that we don’t know yet) for why they won’t be purchasing.

It is exactly this reason that GW will take forever to update the Craftworld line. Craftworld players are proving there is no market for plastic sculpts of existing models. That is a shame.

I do believe you are making way too many presumptions. You do not know if the same people here were the same ones posting in the other thread. I posted in the other thread and I will be buying myself some of these plastic sculpts, and probably start with the heroes.

Craftworlds players aren't some homogeneous collective, but a collection of individuals who all have different opinions about this as well as actions. Do I think the kits will probably be expensive? Yes, but I'll still get myself one of each to start with(maybe more for the Incubi as I really like the lore and design). Some people will buy the new kits, some will not, just like any other faction. If I were to make the same leap of judgments as you have then all the Ork complaining I seem over the years must mean that Orks will be squatted any day now.

Chopstick wrote:
The only things that'd make them change the price is a dip in sale and profit, I don't see that number going down any time soon.

They did lose profits(though still profitable) and # of units sold(which was compensated only partially by increased prices). Didn't have much impact except PR department was upgraded.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cronch wrote:
Didn't take long for the GW bootlicking to start. It's the customers' fault they don't want to buy what GW produces!

Anyway, I wonder if the sudden release of all previously box-hostage models (AoS heroes last weekend, now this) and lack of Seraphon release is related to printed material/terrain kits being made in China, which is pretty much closed down due to the epidemic.

Seraphim books shouldn't be affected seeing for books to be coming any time soon books would have been printed and shipped before epidemic started.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
GW models are expensive?! Stop the press! Let me note down this hot take before I forget.

This is going to be an unpopular opinion but it has to be said I think. In this thread we see Eldar players already making excuses for not buying the latest plastic aspect warrior sculpts before they are even released separately. I distinctly remember a thread whose participants all claimed that the primary reason Craftworld players did not invest in the new Banshees was because they were released in an expensive boxed set with less desirable units. Now they’re going to be released separately and it looks to me like most people here are making new excuses (largely around the price, that we don’t know yet) for why they won’t be purchasing.

It is exactly this reason that GW will take forever to update the Craftworld line. Craftworld players are proving there is no market for plastic sculpts of existing models. That is a shame.

TL: DR Eldar players should STFU and buy anything in order to get more things, and it's solely their fault GW has no plan on how to keep the schedule balanced. (yet here we have an Ork player, tell me, do you run Mek gunz? have you bought them all ? No? Erm isn't that excactly the same ?)




Fun fact, GW indeed doesn't know how to keep a balanced schedule of releases considering their "Surprise" at the SoB demand. IOW GW lacks communication with their custommers and also is too coorperate to understand hobby interactions propperly it seems leading to nice long desinvestment cycles for some factions.

tneva82 wrote:
People have complained about GW prices for minimum of 24 years(how long I have been playing GW games. Can't comment on before that).

30 years ago, 5 metal banshees cost £2.99.

Adjusting for inflation, that is £7.34 in todays money.

I don't recall £2.99 being unreasonable.

Fictional wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
People have complained about GW prices for minimum of 24 years(how long I have been playing GW games. Can't comment on before that).

30 years ago, 5 metal banshees cost £2.99.

Adjusting for inflation, that is £7.34 in todays money.

I don't recall £2.99 being unreasonable.

Hey, that metal hive tyrant was expensive at £12!
As were the epic tyranid beasts at £5 for 3 lol.

I do miss the simpler times.

I don’t miss having to hunt for specific warrior blisters though as the ones on the racks didn’t have the layout I wanted.
Ah, the fun of randomised blister packs lol.

Fictional wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
People have complained about GW prices for minimum of 24 years(how long I have been playing GW games. Can't comment on before that).

30 years ago, 5 metal banshees cost £2.99.

Adjusting for inflation, that is £7.34 in todays money.

I don't recall £2.99 being unreasonable.

Doesn't sound quite right. First ones I remember were these https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/10/10/howling-banshees-through-the-agesgw-homepage-post-2/ and they were in packs of three. Doesn't seem like thirty years ago either, though to be fair might be closer to thirty than to twenty five.

Fictional wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
People have complained about GW prices for minimum of 24 years(how long I have been playing GW games. Can't comment on before that).

30 years ago, 5 metal banshees cost £2.99.

Adjusting for inflation, that is £7.34 in todays money.

I don't recall £2.99 being unreasonable.

Apart from numbers being odd like JWBS said doesn't change that there was still complaining how expensive GW games are even back when I started.

Years change, complains stay.

Simple fact remains.

If you want more Eldar/Dark Eldar models, buy these.
If you are not bothered, don't.

No. Buy what you want, not whatever the company slops in front of you in vague hope the Master will let you have more.

Did people forget how to Customer?!

Cronch wrote:
No. Buy what you want, not whatever the company slops in front of you in vague hope the Master will let you have more.

Did people forget how to Customer?!

I don't think anyone's forgotten how to be a customer. but if I make a movie, a movie you claim you really want to see, but when I release it, you don't go see it and it bombs, don't expect a sequal to get made.

BrianDavion wrote:

Cronch wrote:
No. Buy what you want, not whatever the company slops in front of you in vague hope the Master will let you have more.

Did people forget how to Customer?!

I don't think anyone's forgotten how to be a customer. but if I make a movie, a movie you claim you really want to see, but when I release it, you don't go see it and it bombs, don't expect a sequal to get made.

At a certain price point wanting something can be removed from the equation.

I am not sure how much I am willing to pay, but $55/60 I think is fair for what I would be getting. Things like rules, and current faction satisfaction taken into account.

tneva82 wrote:

Fictional wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
People have complained about GW prices for minimum of 24 years(how long I have been playing GW games. Can't comment on before that).

30 years ago, 5 metal banshees cost £2.99.

Adjusting for inflation, that is £7.34 in todays money.

I don't recall £2.99 being unreasonable.

Apart from numbers being odd like JWBS said doesn't change that there was still complaining how expensive GW games are even back when I started.

Years change, complains stay.

I also notice that a lot of the "cheaper" games are often not that much different per model in price; they are just cheaper because instead of 50 models you only need 5. Or the quality might be far less (eg Kings of War are still playing catch-up).

People have always complained about GW prices. Then agian people complain about the price of everything. At some point the argument just becomes a resounding noise. It's not as if complaints on a random fan forum are going to change the prices GW sets, so many times it just becomes a beacon for general complaining that goes in circles. I've found it gets to be particularly pointless and boring because, in the end, it just ends up everyone arguing over their own justifications and price limitations. Those who are buying argue that its worth the money; those who aren't argue that it isn't. Meanwhile people complain of exchange rates as well. Sadly whilst some do have valid points, when its just being batted around its beating a horse that died and has had its ashes thrown to the wind

BrianDavion wrote:

Cronch wrote:
No. Buy what you want, not whatever the company slops in front of you in vague hope the Master will let you have more.

Did people forget how to Customer?!

I don't think anyone's forgotten how to be a customer. but if I make a movie, a movie you claim you really want to see, but when I release it, you don't go see it and it bombs, don't expect a sequal to get made.

if you make a movie I want to see, but charge me $50 to see it, don't expect many ticket sales. If you make a movie, claim it's the one i wanted, but only actually release 1/5th of it (one unit out of how many aspect warrior types?)...same.

I'd be happy to buy the new Drazhar if it looked anything like the old one, instead of a generic Incubus. I think the studio made a real mistake designing the guy in such an uninspired and boring way, and their mistakes should not be rewarded.

I'll probably end up with all the sculpts except for Jain (I have her in metal, and she doesn't really look that different in the new sculpt). Incubi and Drazar first, banshees later as I own like 15 howling banshees which is 15 more than you need for any kind of halfway decent competitive list.

50$ for 5 figures is pretty fething stupid though, especially when they have basically no weapon options at all (which is the only thing that makes that price model even semi-understandable with like the new Retributors). I'm glad AAE has made this public statement that he shall never again have a good bitch about pricing on any ork models. Bet he just loooooooooves buying up those sweet succulent mek gunz.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
This is going to be an unpopular opinion but it has to be said I think. In this thread we see Eldar players already making excuses for not buying the latest plastic aspect warrior sculpts before they are even released separately. I distinctly remember a thread whose participants all claimed that the primary reason Craftworld players did not invest in the new Banshees was because they were released in an expensive boxed set with less desirable units. Now they’re going to be released separately and it looks to me like most people here are making new excuses (largely around the price, that we don’t know yet) for why they won’t be purchasing.

It is exactly this reason that GW will take forever to update the Craftworld line. Craftworld players are proving there is no market for plastic sculpts of existing models. That is a shame.

I'm sure you'd say the exact same thing if it was about Ork releases lol.
Love to see you interacting with some lord of Maccrage relative-in-law. Genuinely love it .

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
And I suspect people have been complaining about people complaining for almost as long.

Yes, H.B.M.C., people have been complaining about other people complaining for a very long time. Some of these people complaining about other people complaining have been absolutely insufferable. We absolutely are in agreement about this, and I mean it. It's extra infuriating when the people complaining are complaining for good reason, or aren't even actually complaining, just having a slightly nuanced reaction.
We should really think a lot about how annoying the people complaining about people complaining are. I'm sure you share the sentiment, HBMC.

BrianDavion wrote:
but if I make a movie, a movie you claim you really want to see, but when I release it, you don't go see it and it bombs, don't expect a sequal to get made.

If you made a movie that I really wanted to see, but you made a bad movie, so I changed my mind and decided not to watch it, you lost money, you also lost the opportunity to earn money, and all that because you are bad at your job. Meanwhile there's going to be plenty of other good movies for me to watch. So, sucks to be you.
(Generic you, not talking specifically about BrianDavion who I suspect doesn't actually make any movie)

It will be interesting to see what happens with this. It is clear that the Blood of the Pheonix boxed set was broadly a failure. It was too expensive for the contents.

The high price suggests GW were testing out how much they can sell those minis for, how much the hype and wait had impacted that.

It is possible that seeing the poor sales of that set, they might decide to set the price a bit lower, so that it sells. Though they have to be careful not to under price them relative to Blood of the Pheonix.

I doubt they will do that, but I am curious to see.

Well if people want to complain about prices before they are even known let's do it properly!

New ghaz is at least 75% overpriced. And new marine bikes need to be half price or it's total rip off! And land speeder thingie is even more ridiculously overpriced!

And whatever gets released in october 2020 is waaaaaaay overpriced! I don'' know what the price is but obviously you don't need to know that to say it's too high

So let's hear complains about every release price regardless of is price known or not

tneva82 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Discussions and complaints about the prices are 100% justified. It's not some taboo or illegal subject to discuss and is relevant to the players of the game yes?

Would be nice if complaining would at least start once prices are known rather than day before.

It'd be nice if they released the price when they announced the things are coming out. But hold on, they're not officially announced, we've got the announcement that there's a teaser trailer due soon, before we can go and watch the real trailer (pre-order) and then finally get the proper film. GW's Erebus-tease of a pre-release schedule only breeds contempt at this point.

I can't convert prices here at the moment to properly compare with the speculation, but I've been assuming £35, same as a box of 10 Primaris, but for 5 Banshees. That's just how GW do. Anything that's not Marines gets the short end of the rules, and pay a few hundred pounds more for a similarly sized army in models too.

craggy wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Discussions and complaints about the prices are 100% justified. It's not some taboo or illegal subject to discuss and is relevant to the players of the game yes?

Would be nice if complaining would at least start once prices are known rather than day before.

It'd be nice if they released the price when they announced the things are coming out. But hold on, they're not officially announced, we've got the announcement that there's a teaser trailer due soon, before we can go and watch the real trailer (pre-order) and then finally get the proper film. GW's Erebus-tease of a pre-release schedule only breeds contempt at this point.

I can't convert prices here at the moment to properly compare with the speculation, but I've been assuming £35, same as a box of 10 Primaris, but for 5 Banshees. That's just how GW do. Anything that's not Marines gets the short end of the rules, and pay a few hundred pounds more for a similarly sized army in models too.

You're contemptuous of them because of their hype? Hey man, I'm also a person that never buys into hype but I tend to just ignore it. I don't see any reason for hype to cause an upswell of festering hatred in anyone tbh.

craggy wrote:

I can't convert prices here at the moment to properly compare with the speculation, but I've been assuming £35, same as a box of 10 Primaris, but for 5 Banshees. That's just how GW do. Anything that's not Marines gets the short end of the rules, and pay a few hundred pounds more for a similarly sized army in models too.

Haven't seen any price leaks yet but my guess would be on par with the recent GSC prices; £25 for a box of 5 elite infantry and £17.50 for a character model.

Even assuming those conservative prices, it shows how poor value last year's boxed set was. Blood of the Phoenix was priced at 73% of RRP if bought separately, with a lot of old stuff (both Craftworld vehicles are from the 90's!). Meanwhile the new Titancius core set is priced at 56% of RRP, all with fairly new stuff.

 Da Boss wrote:
It will be interesting to see what happens with this. It is clear that the Blood of the Pheonix boxed set was broadly a failure. It was too expensive for the contents.

The high price suggests GW were testing out how much they can sell those minis for, how much the hype and wait had impacted that.

It is possible that seeing the poor sales of that set, they might decide to set the price a bit lower, so that it sells. Though they have to be careful not to under price them relative to Blood of the Pheonix.

I doubt they will do that, but I am curious to see.

I don't think they're going to particularly care about one failure out of many successes. The various 40K and AoS boxes are usually sell outs, one blip is not going to overly concern them.

JWBS wrote:

craggy wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Discussions and complaints about the prices are 100% justified. It's not some taboo or illegal subject to discuss and is relevant to the players of the game yes?

Would be nice if complaining would at least start once prices are known rather than day before.

It'd be nice if they released the price when they announced the things are coming out. But hold on, they're not officially announced, we've got the announcement that there's a teaser trailer due soon, before we can go and watch the real trailer (pre-order) and then finally get the proper film. GW's Erebus-tease of a pre-release schedule only breeds contempt at this point.

I can't convert prices here at the moment to properly compare with the speculation, but I've been assuming £35, same as a box of 10 Primaris, but for 5 Banshees. That's just how GW do. Anything that's not Marines gets the short end of the rules, and pay a few hundred pounds more for a similarly sized army in models too.

You're contemptuous of them because of their hype? Hey man, I'm also a person that never buys into hype but I tend to just ignore it. I don't see any reason for hype to cause an upswell of festering hatred in anyone tbh.

I'm contemptous because how bad their hype is. We're talking D-tier twitchstreamer hype here.

The GW kits are indeed expensive for what they are, but I'm finding that some Eldar kits are quite good value. A box of Kabalites for £20 can provide a full unit, two small units, or using GW's example of a normal model on top of a large piece of ruin, a small unit and an Archon. The Harlequin Troupe essentially provides an HQ unit for £10 and a solid troop unit for £15, and can fill out a full 100 point Kill team. Craftworlds are definitely expensive, though. Compared to the Troupe's £25, a Farseer and some Dire Avengers(or guardians) will set one back £37.50...

That said, I've been waiting on the banshees for a while now to finish off a Kill team and a 40K command detach featuring an old Jain Zar. During a quiet month I'll then get the new sculpt.

It's really grating seeing models, hearing nothing for months, then, when they deign to release the thing we get a week or two previewing it, telling us what new or improved rules they're going to nerf in a few months once the majority have bought it. Then we get to pre-order for a week, sometimes two...maybe, depending if they've bothered to make enough of the thing that they don't sell out in minutes (I'm not worried about that here, mind) and it's only at that point we get official pricing and maybe a proper idea of the sprues.

Their "community" site, and their facebook page tell us very little specifics a lot of the time in regards pricing. Sometimes WHC will hint that a unit is pricier, or more likely less, than an existing product. The facebook page seems like it's run by bots, or at least people following a very narrow script. (When the reprinted 40k Rulebook came out, they didn't know if it was going to include any updates or errata, despite the lack of these already being called out elsewhere, and the fact that it's a bloody great book you've sent all the files for off to a printer weeks if not months ago and it'd take an email to someone in that dept 30 seconds to respond to with "nah, we just copy/pasted the last one, again." ) They're at best kept on a very tight leash (Slaanesh is that you?), at worst condescending or inept.

This is a company that's the worldwide leader in their industry. I can barely think of other products, even from small companies where pricing isn't made clear very early in the advertising announcements. To compare apples to nectarines, it's just been New York Toy Fair this weekend. Products were announced, and up for pre-order minutes later. With pricing. For months in the future, and only a few weeks away. I could go to the cinema now, and pre-order the film on DVD or digital release BEFORE I'VE SEEN IT. I don't feel it's unreasonable to expect a little more transparency, respect and accessibility from GW. I can slip and fall into buying thousands of different products from any number of companies, well in advance with, generally, a pretty solid idea of what they are, when they're coming out and how much they'll be. It's taking the p a little that we should be sitting on the edge of our seats waiting for GW to bother themselves, meanwhile being advertised at sometimes for months on end, all to spend a premium price on plastic toy soldiers.

I'm not going to respond to all of you that have quoted me, there's too many of you and it'll take too long. I kinda knew my comment would set most of you off so expected this anyway.

2 things, though;

1. Unless I'm mistaken GW haven't released the price of the models yet?
2. Unless I'm mistaken again people are already complaining about the price of the models, that GW have yet to reveal?

This seems silly, even for Dakka.

People know my stance on this - I buy pretty much any new models for my faction, regardless of their quality of rules or (in the case of Ghazzy if he is Goff) if I can even use them. I do this to show that there is a demand for my faction's product (as small as my contribution is, mind) and because I am in the fortunate position to have enough disposable income to do so.

We know that the only thing that speaks to GW is profit. If they see little/no monetary value in releasing updated models for a current unit based on historical data, they are going to do it less often. I hope that doesn't happen with Aspect Warriors, as Craftworld Eldar (back when they were 'just Eldar') were my first army and I have a massive soft spot for their models. On the other hand I can see why players wouldn't want new Banshee/Jain Zar/Incubi/Drahzar models - particularly if they already have a ton of them.

Let's wait and see what the prices are before jumping to conclusions. Banshees aren't great on the table but they aren't bad either. I've played them many a time and they have excellent utility, particularly if they get first turn, because they can lock opposing models in their deployment zone and prevent units from firing.

If you play Craftworld, and you want to see more Aspects in plastic, the only (and I mean ONLY) way you can show this to GW is to purchase them.

I hope they sell enough to justify the other Aspects getting a similar release, but we'll see.

Prices from my web suppliers GW rep

46-49 CRAFTWORLDS - JAIN ZAR £25 RRP- 07/03/20

46-45 CRAFTWORLDS HOWLING BANSHEES - £32.50 RRP- 07/03/20
-
45-40 DRUKHARI INCUBI - £32.50 RRP- 07/03/20
-
45-41 DRUKHARI DRAZHAR £25 RRP- 07/03/20

OOF.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I'm not going to respond to all of you that have quoted me, there's too many of you and it'll take too long. I kinda knew my comment would set most of you off so expected this anyway

Don't worry, we knew that you knew that your comment would set us off. I know that British are very, very poor people, what's the price to ride metro once there, 5 pounds? I would never leave you without Russian humanitarian aid

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Prices from my web suppliers GW rep

...or will I?

So 5 Banshees = 5 WG or a Fire Prism?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I'm not going to respond to all of you that have quoted me, there's too many of you and it'll take too long. I kinda knew my comment would set most of you off so expected this anyway.

At least I know who doesn't deserve my respect anymore lol.
I hope you don't get new boys sculpts so I don't have to hear your endless whinging about how you are expected to pay £32.50 for a box of 10... lol.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Prices from my web suppliers GW rep

46-49 CRAFTWORLDS - JAIN ZAR £25 RRP- 07/03/20

46-45 CRAFTWORLDS HOWLING BANSHEES - £32.50 RRP- 07/03/20
-
45-40 DRUKHARI INCUBI - £32.50 RRP- 07/03/20
-
45-41 DRUKHARI DRAZHAR £25 RRP- 07/03/20

ugh..... That's grim. I hope you get 10 at least lol. That would be sort of okish and id pick up another 10 alrrady got one set from BOTP and another one from a reseller..

Those prices actually make the ebay scalpers look cheaper

I'm really surprised at the aspect warrior prices, pushing up around £10 compared to the Dire Avengers which are basically the exact same concept and content in a box.


Is there any confirmation on box contents? If its just 5 then those are really bad prices - actually worse than things like Daughters of Khaine Witch aelves.
If its 10 in a set then they are still on the high side, but affordable and better than Dire Avengers.

Foolish Craftworlder, who would sell you ten beautiful sword maidens at once? We don't do things that way in Dark City.

Also I heard there's that practice when, if you're not sure how many you will sell, you increase the price since most loyal (and rich) customers would buy your stuff anyway = profit.

Yeah, if it's just 5 in the box then that's painful. I'm one of those Eldar collectors who's got all the aspect warriors they'll ever need - in the case of Banshees I've got 20 in metal. I want to buy some of the new ones because I do like them, and I also want to do my bit to show there's a market for more Eldar updates - but if you only get 5 then that's a hard sell, especially given I'd want to build a full squad of 10. It's pretty much only steep FLGS pre-order discounts that could make me do it.

I skipped the Blood of the Phoenix box because I thought the price was taking the piss for what you got, but I always assumed I'd be happy to pick some up when they got their standalone release...

What's odd is that GW has been pretty good on prices thus far with new stuff. Ossiarchs were good on price; new Chaos models were too. It makes me think it might be 10 in a set rather than 5 because otherwise its really going to hurt Eldar if all their aspect warriors start hitting £30+ for 5 models each.


I think BoP was well priced for what you got (esp with3rd party store discount). It's problem was having mostly very old Craftworld core models which many existing fans already had - ergo the falcon and viper. For newbies it wasn't a bad deal at all; just a pain for existing fans of the army who have all the falcons and vipers.

All I can say is that for $55 (the converted cost for USD from a 32.50 model from the UK)....you better get more than five fething Howling Banshees. GW have absolutely lost their god damned minds if they think that's reasonable. If it's for ten miniatures then that's reasonable, but would be odd simply because other ten-model kits are generally $60 now.

For the GW-diehards and defenders...it's not about what people can afford. I'd imagine that a good 70% of Dakka are employed adults. The other 30% may be younger people or students on slim budgets. Anyone with a job and not too many kids "can" afford to play a GW game. It's about what you're willing to spend and what you believe you're getting for the money. For example, as much as I love Eldar (and have since 2nd edition), I will not pay $55 for five plastic miniatures, even at the common discount of 15% ($46.75). If this means the future of the Eldar line suffers? So be it. I will not reward GW for that kind of pricing just because it might mean more plastic kits in the future.

I play a lot of non-GW games and I'm well versed in the wide price varieties you can get between games. If GW thinks one plastic infantry figure is going to be worth $11 USD they can pound sand. Also, with a 12 year old nephew, it's unfortunate that while he wants to play 40K he will not be able to afford to do so. There's essentially no product he can walk into the GW store and buy with his usual $15-20 cash on hand. You should see his face when he asks how much a simple box of ten space marines cost, and I tell him $60.

I haven't played 40K in months, but I'm sad for the future of the game, and for the future of younger gamers. If, god forbid, Banshees are still five to a box...can anyone in their right mind try to justify $110 for ten plastic figures? That's laughable.

Start Collecting boxes are good value. I've just started buying minis again after many years not doing so, and buying various SC boxes (since I don't play any of the games I was always just a painter) has been a good experience.
/Edit - talking about for your nephew. Obviously for anyone that plays 40K Craftworld Eldar, good value SC boxes only go so far.

 Overread wrote:
Those prices actually make the ebay scalpers look cheaper

I'm really surprised at the aspect warrior prices, pushing up around £10 compared to the Dire Avengers which are basically the exact same concept and content in a box.


Is there any confirmation on box contents? If its just 5 then those are really bad prices - actually worse than things like Daughters of Khaine Witch aelves.
If its 10 in a set then they are still on the high side, but affordable and better than Dire Avengers.

I’m not really sure why you’re surprised, to be honest. The Dire Avengers are what, 10 years old now?

They’re pricier than Witch aelves, but WE are the core of the army. These are an elite unit.

I’m not really defending the price. It’s just not much of a surprise.

 Shadenuat wrote:
Don't worry, we knew that you knew that your comment would set us off. I know that British are very, very poor people, what's the price to ride metro once there, 5 pounds? I would never leave you without Russian humanitarian aid

Lol wut?

 Argive wrote:
At least I know who doesn't deserve my respect anymore lol.
I hope you don't get new boys sculpts so I don't have to hear your endless whinging about how you are expected to pay £32.50 for a box of 10... lol.

Dude, if it wasn't clear already - I would absolutely pay £32.50 for 10 new Boyz sculpts. In a heartbeat. It's much better than having 20 year old models for £20.00, in my opinion.

We have no confirmation of those prices, if they are true however I'd expect 10 for that price given Intercessors are £35 for 10 and Reivers are £35 for 10. To be fair, if you only get 5 for £32.50 please feel free to disregard my other statements in this thread prior. That would be a very bitter pill to swallow. 10, however, is much more palatable at that price and in keeping with other modern sculpts.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Those prices actually make the ebay scalpers look cheaper

I'm really surprised at the aspect warrior prices, pushing up around £10 compared to the Dire Avengers which are basically the exact same concept and content in a box.


Is there any confirmation on box contents? If its just 5 then those are really bad prices - actually worse than things like Daughters of Khaine Witch aelves.
If its 10 in a set then they are still on the high side, but affordable and better than Dire Avengers.

I’m not really sure why you’re surprised, to be honest. The Dire Avengers are what, 10 years old now?

They’re pricier than Witch aelves, but WE are the core of the army. These are an elite unit.

I’m not really defending the price. It’s just not much of a surprise.

Last time I checked, Dire Avengers are (and always have been) a troop choice, AKA the core of the army.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Those prices actually make the ebay scalpers look cheaper

I'm really surprised at the aspect warrior prices, pushing up around £10 compared to the Dire Avengers which are basically the exact same concept and content in a box.


Is there any confirmation on box contents? If its just 5 then those are really bad prices - actually worse than things like Daughters of Khaine Witch aelves.
If its 10 in a set then they are still on the high side, but affordable and better than Dire Avengers.

I’m not really sure why you’re surprised, to be honest. The Dire Avengers are what, 10 years old now?

They’re pricier than Witch aelves, but WE are the core of the army. These are an elite unit.

I’m not really defending the price. It’s just not much of a surprise.

Last time I checked, Dire Avengers are (and always have been) a troop choice, AKA the core of the army.

I’m not talking about Dire Avengers there. I meant the Howling Banshees/Incubi.

The warcom article mentions each kit of five, wich counts as 2x sprues.

They are an elite slot and thus priced as Retributors from SoB wich are just 5x models and 2 x cherubs.

And please don't mention Dire Avengers they were 10x Box until old Geedubs choose to keep the price and cut the models per Box to 5 models only (i still own and unopened 10x man box btw)

So, let me see if I have this right. I should pay punishing, contemptuous prices on CE now or else GW might not grace me with even more punishingly-priced CE down the line?


At those prices, GW might as well not even sell CE as far as I'm concerned, because both results are the same for this customer.


And if finding reward in punishment is the exercise, time in an actual dungeon is cheaper.

An elite 11 ppm unit for a truly elite price. Can't wait for Scorpions now.

Hey folks, kindly stay on topic and stick to Rule #1 please.

Depressingly the Sunday preview blurb confirms they're boxes of 5, (' Each kit of five includes both helmeted or bare headed options, and they’re armed with the iconic shuriken pistol and power sword pairing.' and 'One of the five models can be built as a Klaivex with a pair of demiklaives, with a profile for linking them together or using them separately to unleash a flurry of blows. ')

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/23/sunday-preview-incubi-banshees-and-black-library-celebration/?fbclid=IwAR19G5EJhfiPzi28v_MT_JwtSgbfBYksrouW3DYdglBtTWbpl-uDhc2Hm_A




Automatically Appended Next Post:
on the plus side, it now means the discount on the Blood of the Phoenix box is more comparable with the rest of GWs recent box sets

so if you got one 'well played' I guess?

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Depressingly the Sunday preview blurb confirms they're boxes of 5, (' Each kit of five includes both helmeted or bare headed options, and they’re armed with the iconic shuriken pistol and power sword pairing.' and 'One of the five models can be built as a Klaivex with a pair of demiklaives, with a profile for linking them together or using them separately to unleash a flurry of blows. ')

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/23/sunday-preview-incubi-banshees-and-black-library-celebration/?fbclid=IwAR19G5EJhfiPzi28v_MT_JwtSgbfBYksrouW3DYdglBtTWbpl-uDhc2Hm_A




Automatically Appended Next Post:
on the plus side, it now means the discount on the Blood of the Phoenix box is more comparable with the rest of GWs recent box sets

so if you got one 'well played' I guess?

BOTP is going to fly off the shelves now!! lol
Another wave of ultra cheap vypers and falcolns coming to ebay near you..

I paid £25 for my Incubi. Ouch.

That makes Banshess/Incubi AUD$90. Jesus Christ...

I remember when the idea of the Devastator Squad being AUD$8 more than the Assault Squad 'cause it came out a week later was deemed objectionable. Now $90 for 5 is the new normal.

I’ll grab 5 banshees once they show up on amazon discounters, where I can use gift cards. Was planning on getting 10, but that’s going to be hard to justify. Hopefully they will show up in a start collecting box or a better bundle down the road.

Comparing it to the Harlequin troupe set which is £25, I'm really having a hard time accepting the £32.50 price quote.

Actually, comparing it to an unassembled Tyranid Warrior kit I have lying around and also cost £32.50...no, there is twice as much plastic than the Harlequin set.

The Slicing Noose and Writhing Shadow kill team sets were £30, so allowing a bit for inflation - the odd £2.50 - that would be roughly right.

I'm going to take a guess and say that the prices given by the GW reps are incorrect. This will sound weird but there is nothing "£32.50" about five banshees.

SamusDrake wrote:
I'm going to take a guess and say that the prices given by the GW reps are incorrect. This will sound weird but there is nothing "£32.50" about five banshees.

Forget it Drake. It's Games Workshop.

SamusDrake wrote:


This will sound weird but there is nothing "£32.50" about five banshees.

Theres they-are-not-space-marines-so-who-cares 32.50

It certainly seems like they're doing their darnedest to discourage anyone getting xenos armies.

At least when marines get expensive small unit count squads they've got good rules...

If they'd 32.50, theyre only 2.50 away from a 10 man intercessor squad, or any of the Phobos squads.

Which are all pointswise more expensive....

Does this mean $50USD for 5 plastic Banshees then?

And here I was hoping that all the Aspects get plastic releases...soon.

Just not too soon though, as apparently I've got some savin' to do!

$55 is the conversion over for a 32.50 unit.

While his Banshees aren't the best, the other Aspects from Artel are $50 for six, including a unique Exarch sculpt...so oddly we're now to the point that small batch resin "premium" figures are cheaper than GW plastics.

 Elbows wrote:
$55 is the conversion over for a 32.50 unit.

While his Banshees aren't the best, the other Aspects from Artel are $50 for six, including a unique Exarch sculpt...so oddly we're now to the point that small batch resin "premium" figures are cheaper than GW plastics.

Yep. Its ridiculous.. I have been eyeing up artels scorpions for a while...

Well, doesn't look like I'm getting rid of my metals anytime soon. I knew the plastics were going to cost more, but this is just money-grubbing lunacy.

 Argive wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
$55 is the conversion over for a 32.50 unit.

While his Banshees aren't the best, the other Aspects from Artel are $50 for six, including a unique Exarch sculpt...so oddly we're now to the point that small batch resin "premium" figures are cheaper than GW plastics.

Yep. Its ridiculous.. I have been eyeing up artels scorpions for a while...

My buddy picked me up the scorpion set, but I haven't built them - they're small, more in line with classic Eldar miniatures, but they do look beautifully cast just glancing at the bits....and I got the cool "Predator" Exarch. Also his Phoenix Lords are $18-20 which is also damn near half of the GW ones. Bizarre world we're in now...

I suspect it’s 55 USD for 10 models and that the warcom article is just misleading since the writers tend to get things wrong from time to time. But we’ll find out if my optimism is warranted in a few days.

Dandelion wrote:
I suspect it’s 55 USD for 10 models and that the warcom article is just misleading since the writers tend to get things wrong from time to time. But we’ll find out if my optimism is warranted in a few days.

I think everyone in this thread would be hugely pleased to be wrong.

32.50 pounds for a 5 person box isn't impossiable to belive, that's what SOB retributors go for.
GW generally puts out a box of 10 troops for 60 USDs these days, and charges about 55 USDs for a box of 5 elites/heavy support etc. there are a few exceptions (hellblasters come to mind) but generally this is the pricing stragety. expecting them to be massivly cheaper because they're not as many points is proably wishful thinking.

Dandelion wrote:
I suspect it’s 55 USD for 10 models and that the warcom article is just misleading since the writers tend to get things wrong from time to time. But we’ll find out if my optimism is warranted in a few days.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/23/sunday-preview-incubi-banshees-and-black-library-celebration/

"Joining their esteemed leader, you’ll be able to pre-order a box (or three) of updated Howling Banshees Aspect Warriors in plastic. Each kit of five includes both helmeted or bare headed options, and they’re armed with the iconic shuriken pistol and power sword pairing. You can optionally build one model as an Exarch, with a choice of four different heads and several weapon options, so none of your Exarchs need look the same."

I dont know.. seems pretty cut and dry.
Maybe the leaked price is incorrect and they will be in line with DA kit.

5 dollar higher than expected, GW is the master of subverting expectation.

You were preparing for disappointment if you really think this will be cheaper than 50US$

 Elbows wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
$55 is the conversion over for a 32.50 unit.

While his Banshees aren't the best, the other Aspects from Artel are $50 for six, including a unique Exarch sculpt...so oddly we're now to the point that small batch resin "premium" figures are cheaper than GW plastics.

Yep. Its ridiculous.. I have been eyeing up artels scorpions for a while...

My buddy picked me up the scorpion set, but I haven't built them - they're small, more in line with classic Eldar miniatures, but they do look beautifully cast just glancing at the bits....and I got the cool "Predator" Exarch. Also his Phoenix Lords are $18-20 which is also damn near half of the GW ones. Bizarre world we're in now...

Artel has Phoenix Lord sculpts too now?!?

Anyone have a link?

BrianDavion wrote:
32.50 pounds for a 5 person box isn't impossiable to belive, that's what SOB retributors go for.
GW generally puts out a box of 10 troops for 60 USDs these days, and charges about 55 USDs for a box of 5 elites/heavy support etc. there are a few exceptions (hellblasters come to mind) but generally this is the pricing stragety. expecting them to be massivly cheaper because they're not as many points is proably wishful thinking.

I’m pretty sure the retributors and havocs are the exception. Even GSC aberrants are only 40USD and they’re newer than most primaris. (Also, I don’t think you can buy hellblasters in squads of 5 anymore)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Argive wrote:

Dandelion wrote:
I suspect it’s 55 USD for 10 models and that the warcom article is just misleading since the writers tend to get things wrong from time to time. But we’ll find out if my optimism is warranted in a few days.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/02/23/sunday-preview-incubi-banshees-and-black-library-celebration/

"Joining their esteemed leader, you’ll be able to pre-order a box (or three) of updated Howling Banshees Aspect Warriors in plastic. Each kit of five includes both helmeted or bare headed options, and they’re armed with the iconic shuriken pistol and power sword pairing. You can optionally build one model as an Exarch, with a choice of four different heads and several weapon options, so none of your Exarchs need look the same."

I dont know.. seems pretty cut and dry.
Maybe the leaked price is incorrect and they will be in line with DA kit.

It does seem cut and dry, but the article could simply be wrong.

Yes, he's been doing a decent chunk of Eldar lately

-One or two Farseer models (options for heads/hands, etc.)
-Banshees and Jain Zar stand-in (not my favourite of his)
-Dark Reaper unit with Exarch (my least favourite of his sculpts)
-Fire Dragons and Exarch, and Fuegan (really beautiful ones - Fuegan is on an annoying base though)
-Beautiful Scorpions, Exarch and Karandras - my favourite ones
-He's working on a really nice set of Rangers and has been showing off images, etc.

Considering his resin has been immaculate every time I've seen it, he's the place to go for new fancy Eldar, but it's still pricey of course.

 Alpharius wrote:

 Elbows wrote:

 Argive wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
$55 is the conversion over for a 32.50 unit.

While his Banshees aren't the best, the other Aspects from Artel are $50 for six, including a unique Exarch sculpt...so oddly we're now to the point that small batch resin "premium" figures are cheaper than GW plastics.

Yep. Its ridiculous.. I have been eyeing up artels scorpions for a while...

My buddy picked me up the scorpion set, but I haven't built them - they're small, more in line with classic Eldar miniatures, but they do look beautifully cast just glancing at the bits....and I got the cool "Predator" Exarch. Also his Phoenix Lords are $18-20 which is also damn near half of the GW ones. Bizarre world we're in now...

Artel has Phoenix Lord sculpts too now?!?

Anyone have a link?

So far they have done Void stalkers : Who happen to resemble howling banshees by accident.. but I mean I dunno.. I suppose it depends..... riiiight.

https://artelw.com/Red-Witch-Voidstalker-Prime-p99026185

They done shadowhunters who look like predator but also seem to sort of resemble striking scorpions.. All coincidental of course.

https://artelw.com/Shadow-Hunter-Prime-p127483498

And they also did fire drakes... Who incidentaly resemble a GW model with a similar draconic derived name.. I mean its all coincidence you see..

https://artelw.com/Flaming-Drake-Prime-p144581582

 Alpharius wrote:

Artel has Phoenix Lord sculpts too now?!?

Anyone have a link?

https://artelw.com/search?keyword=prime

Just Banshee, Scorpion and Fire Dragon so far, but at the rate they're churning stuff out lately, it probably won't be long before they have the others.

Anyone know if the poor sales of Blood of the Phoenix would have influenced the price of the Banshees? Would they try to recoup their losses on that boxed set by increasing the price of Jain Zar/Banshees, or do you think those prices were set well in advance?

Here's the thing; GW is big enough that they've likely never "lost" money on anything they've produced in the past 5-10 years, maybe even before that. Now, do they have sales expectations? Sure, but there is no massive investment they're losing money on if a kit has poor sales.

Historically people talk about plastic molds being exorbitantly expensive, and they are - but not for a company of GW's size. Plastic molds are very expensive for smaller companies, because they can be in the tens of thousands of dollars to get up and running. GW is beyond that concern.

Most of the Blood of the Phoenix box was old kits anyway, long-term molds they've already abused for 20+ years (yep, the Falcon and Vyper came out in...1997?). Those molds have long since paid themselves off.

Let's make a bizarre assumption. Say a mold for the Howling Banshees kit is $50,000 USD (which it's likely not, I'm exaggerating for the purposes of this discussion). Do we think GW won't sell more than 1,000 copies of a $55 box within the first week they sell that kit? Consider the world wide sales of a new GW kit. Hell yes they probably will. So it's not a discussion of losing money, or recouping losses...unless you simply mean that over 5-10 years a mold/kit underperforms compared to other kits...but that's the nature of the beast.

I think the prices of this kit were planned a long time ago - as I mentioned a page ago, the new Sisters of Battle heavy weapons chicks are five to a box for $55 as well (though they do come with two little flyin' cherubs). This is the price creep that will likely be the same for most new five-model elite kits going forward.

The saddest part of this, is that...assuming the worst, and it is indeed 5 models for $55....that will be the price of every Aspect Warrior kit (excluding Shining Spears which - if they get produced, will likely be three for $50-55). I don't think we've ever seen GW back-pedal on a pricing strategy. So...any future plastic Aspect Warrior kits stand a very strong chance of being priced the same. Craftworld Eldar just became even more expensive to play, which is nuts.

 puma713 wrote:
Anyone know if the poor sales of Blood of the Phoenix would have influenced the price of the Banshees? Would they try to recoup their losses on that boxed set by increasing the price of Jain Zar/Banshees, or do you think those prices were set well in advance?

I rather expect the opposite, that Blood of the Phoenix was so expensive (and because of that sold poorly) precisely due the the pricetag GW had in mind for the new Eldar/Dark Eldar figures.

As said several times, this matches the price of the Adepta Sororitas elites. You can hope for it to be a mistake, but be prepared for disappointment if you do. And expect this to be the new normal going forwards...

If that were the reason for the price of these minis, then one would have to assume that they've been losing money on everything across the board for at least the last 5 years.

Except their financials prove that that isn't the case, and business is booming, and GW have decided to pass the profits on to precisely none of the customer base, and instead subject their so-called "community" to regular arbitrary price hikes.

craggy wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Discussions and complaints about the prices are 100% justified. It's not some taboo or illegal subject to discuss and is relevant to the players of the game yes?

Would be nice if complaining would at least start once prices are known rather than day before.

It'd be nice if they released the price when they announced the things are coming out. But hold on, they're not officially announced, we've got the announcement that there's a teaser trailer due soon, before we can go and watch the real trailer (pre-order) and then finally get the proper film. GW's Erebus-tease of a pre-release schedule only breeds contempt at this point.

I can't convert prices here at the moment to properly compare with the speculation, but I've been assuming £35, same as a box of 10 Primaris, but for 5 Banshees. That's just how GW do. Anything that's not Marines gets the short end of the rules, and pay a few hundred pounds more for a similarly sized army in models too.

Well waiting for monday when preorders comes next week is such a chore

Fellas and ladies, why do you think I've said in multiple threads I am not looking forward to model updates at all. At these pricing points, if they re did a box of guard they'd be like 60 USD. You can only imagine how pricey heavy weapons squads would be. I really want rough riders but my god the cost. Makes me feel like the death of Kurtz in apocalypse now.." The horror...the horror..."

Seriously, these characters are going to cost more than a space marine primaris character ? Say What now ??

55USD for 5 Banshees ? They shouldn't be any more expensive than say 5 scions as those kits are loaded with options and I find that a bit expensive. My word, how intense. Yeah I'd be fine with no new model updates for quite awhile GW, though I'd probably still get rough riders..as much as I'd hate it.

I can't fathom the logic of paying through the nose for the models just to hope GW decides to love your faction in the future and drop even more overly expensive models in the future. That is the most strange logic leap when its a buyers market and if everyone said " Newp " they'd need to give in, or perish. As the customer you do have all the power for something you don't need to live.

I guess these prices are here to make the next gen game consoles seem cheap ? " Hey there boyyy, that new xbox is cheap !..only cost me like..3 full squads of banshees and their phoenix lord !..that's pretty reasonable ! " Though by the time they drop who knows how much these releases will be dropping at then.

There is no reason they should cost this much, though it does make the BotP box look cheap now, I think i did say it might but this is too intense GW.

I can't imagine ever feeling like I have to buy a new kit if they are dragging me over the coals. As well I can't wait to see how much Ghaz is going to come out for. 60, 70, 80,. 100 USD, maybe as much as Mortarian, wouldn't that be great. I would expect to hear much rejoicing for their greatness at that time.

Seriously, these characters are going to cost more than a space marine primaris character ? Say What now ??

Space Marine Primaris Special characters go for the same price actually. the generic HQs go for about 5 bucks less so it might be there's a "special character tax"

AngryAngel80 wrote:

I guess these prices are here to make the next gen game consoles seem cheap ?

not the next consoles but the next GW release

now yout get 5 models for 55, but we have now this new box on discount were you get 15 for 140, so buying them at the FLGS with 20% off for 115 is the best deal ever and makes them really cheap.

and you also get new rules that say you can take units of 10 or 20 models, have fun

BrianDavion wrote:

Seriously, these characters are going to cost more than a space marine primaris character ? Say What now ??

Space Marine Primaris Special characters go for the same price actually. the generic HQs go for about 5 bucks less so it might be there's a "special character tax"

It's whack especially when there are no generic characters of such. Least with marines you can run the cheaper yet still overly expensive generic characters. At this rate Ragnar is going to make me cry, he better come with wolves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kodos wrote:

AngryAngel80 wrote:

I guess these prices are here to make the next gen game consoles seem cheap ?

not the next consoles but the next GW release

now yout get 5 models for 55, but we have now this new box on discount were you get 15 for 140, so buying them at the FLGS with 20% off for 115 is the best deal ever and makes them really cheap.

and you also get new rules that say you can take units of 10 or 20 models, have fun

You know when the Deathguard stuff came out I thought it was pricey, but I won't lie these new prices make them seem totally reasonable in comparison.

We're living in a world where GW are struggling to manufacture enough product and experiencing record revenue year after year.

At what point do you admit that their pricing structure is actually fine?

In 10 years they will be selling 10 for 100$ and people will buy and complain

I'm so glad I have no interest in either of these kits.

10 banshees for 100 usd would be cheaper so sure, maybe. However I doubt they will continue to entice year after year as their entrenched, whale faction will eventually stop buying and I'd not count on the new age to support it when its so much more expensive than tech which is both easier to find and instantly gratifying.

As well, in 10 years 3D printing will be even better and at that point, the ones who could pay for the models will just print them themselves. It's already cheaper to do that at this point, by then it'll be pretty amazing as well.

Oh and as a note, not everyone has complained about their prices forever. I actually really didn't back then, then didn't start reaching my belly ache point till 8th was underway. Some people, did see the old prices as reasonable as opposed to currently. Though I know its more appealing to paint everyone with the same broad brush.

I also say this, not every new kit felt like even and especially in the old days that they were trying to fleece you. When the plastic dev kit came out to the metal plastic hybrid kit it was actually cheaper to buy that. Often times when they upgraded it was mildly more expensive if that, sometimes it got cheaper though. These days it is not the case ever, with but a few examples like ETB kits which they make so few of to my lament.

AngryAngel80 wrote:You know when the Deathguard stuff came out I thought it was pricey, but I won't lie these new prices make them seem totally reasonable in comparison.

This is a common buisness model, release something at a very high price to set the price point and don't expect anyone to buy it
than release something that is still overpriced but cheaper than the original price and/or the same product with a discount (or release the overpriced one first and than the too high priced product)

Vorian wrote:We're living in a world where GW are struggling to manufacture enough product and experiencing record revenue year after year.
At what point do you admit that their pricing structure is actually fine?

I would agree, if I would not have had the same discussion during Warhammer Fantasy 7th/8th

GW was making a lot of money, and people said that their price structure of ridiculous overpriced model boxes is fine

They used some boxes of some factions to test which price tag is the right one, but also took that as a conclusion that people have no interest in that faction
at the beginning of AoS they did it again, just to see how far they can get

both 8th Edition Fantasy and 1st Edition AoS were a flop and now they are going that line again with 40k, testing how much people are willing to pay

That is true, it is important to note fantasy, they bloated out of control there and killed the whole system to need to reboot it as they got so intensely wild with the pricing model. These new " Good value boxes " Feel an awful lot like Goldswords to me.

Vorian wrote:


At what point do you admit that their pricing structure is actually fine?

When it stops being a glaringly cynical effort to extract more cash from the "community", and starts actually making sense? £32 for 5 minis? Say that to yourself a few times, then think of all the other cool stuff you could spend that money on. Think of all the movies, all the meals out, all the traveling you could off the back of that. Sure, it's not a fortune, but you could do way more fun stuff than 5 banshees.

Then think of 5 small plastic space men, that are just re-dos of an OLD ASS resin kit that is always filled with bubbles and deformities that was a cost-saving measure (with all those costs saved passed directly to the customer, in the sense that GW said "feth the customer" and raised the price.) to replicate an EVEN OLDER metal kit that cost even less, even accounting for inflation when it was released.

Then think of the "community" overseas, like NZ, Australia, and yes, even Japan. Out here, these will cost more than £50.
Think about the one good deal GW have passed on to their customers in the last 5 years, the Start Collecting boxes - which they price hiked, too. Again, out here, over £100. Try making that pitch to a mate who is kinda cynically curious about those odd little men you paint.

Think of all the missed out sales, the throttled enthusiasm, the inevitable cynicism as their media machine keeps on advertising a Great Deal™️! On some AWESOME™️ new Games Workshop™️ EXCLUSIVE™️ minatures! Now back to deleting™️ any negative nancy comments on our social media channels, because there's no such thing as irony for a company that built its brand on lampooning totalitarian thinking.

Think about how all the people holding up the shield of "when the new factory opens, and GW can manufacture enough product..." GW brought up the price of decades old kits mere months ago. Kits that have long since paid themselves off. I would love to be wrong here, but I don't have much hope. At what point do you admit that GWs pricing structure is only serving to alienate its customers, its community, its fans, its painters, and any potential new blood, because they can't see the social element of how their business works, and can only see £ signs and hungry shareholders?

I think if you're happy to keep letting the GW price apologist line of "ooh, the mystical market knows best, if there's demand, and some whales willing to fork out, the market can't be wrong, companies are incapable of making mistakes, it's the fault of the little man for not working hard enough to prop them up, ooh, the market, the market!" win, that's fine. But as an increasingly large part of the scene keeps vocalizing, lines are being crossed, and wallets are shutting. That doesn't sound like sustainable pricing structure to me.

 kodos wrote:
both 8th Edition Fantasy and 1st Edition AoS were a flop and now they are going that line again with 40k, testing how much people are willing to pay

FB flopped because GW stopped producing new releases for them. First they had top 3 seller in their hand, then they stopped producing new products when products sell most of their lifetime sales in first 3 months. No releases, no sales. They instead decided top 3 miniature game seller isn't enough as it didn't match space marine sales.

AOS is whole another level of mess and prices were hardly the issue.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 posermcbogus wrote:


Think about how all the people holding up the shield of "when the new factory opens, and GW can manufacture enough product..." GW brought up the price of decades old kits mere months ago. Kits that have long since paid themselves off. I would love to be wrong here, but I don't have much hope. At what point do you admit that GWs pricing structure is only serving to alienate its customers, its community, its fans, its painters, and any potential new blood, because they can't see the social element of how their business works, and can only see £ signs and hungry shareholders?

I think if you're happy to keep letting the GW price apologist line of "ooh, the mystical market knows best, if there's demand, and some whales willing to fork out, the market can't be wrong, companies are incapable of making mistakes, it's the fault of the little man for not working hard enough to prop them up, ooh, the market, the market!" win, that's fine. But as an increasingly large part of the scene keeps vocalizing, lines are being crossed, and wallets are shutting. That doesn't sound like sustainable pricing structure to me.

Thing is if they can't produce more price IS correct for them. Lowering price would have: Same sales(production capability is capped remember), lower price.

you can arque about cheaper price sells more until your face is blue but until you can actually sell more with cheaper price that's irrelevant if they cannot sell more. Especially as halving price would need to more than double the sale count to be even break even proposal.

Games workshop is a busniess. not only are they a busniess, but they're incorperated, meaning they are owned by Shareholders. These Shareholders expect the company to turn a profit. If warhammer 40k's manafacturing is taxed to capacity and there is still high demand for the product, they're going to see how much they can charge. that's the nature of the beast.
Dealing with corperations in our hobby means we're always going to have to accept a degree of "these people don't actually care about the hobby and just wanna maximize profits from it" weather this is from GW's pricing or FFG's recent "reorginization".
It's just a fact of life.

BrianDavion wrote:
Games workshop is a busniess. not only are they a busniess, but they're incorperated, meaning they are owned by Shareholders. These Shareholders expect the company to turn a profit. If warhammer 40k's manafacturing is taxed to capacity and there is still high demand for the product, they're going to see how much they can charge. that's the nature of the beast.
Dealing with corperations in our hobby means we're always going to have to accept a degree of "these people don't actually care about the hobby and just wanna maximize profits from it" weather this is from GW's pricing or FFG's recent "reorginization".
It's just a fact of life.

*looks at made-to-order Yarrick at over 400% the price of when he came out*

Yep. Just a business.

There's no point trying to convince anyone anything is "worth" something.

The simple facts are they can't manufacture enough, so there is no problem with demand. They are charging what enough people are willing to pay to max out their current production capabilities.

The argument about the pricing structure not being sustainable would be stronger if they hadn't been going through record growth and just invested a significant amount in expanding production.

The price has nothing to do with their production capabilities, it's purely related to milking people for profits.

Cheaper price absolutely would sell more. If they were up front about their ability to produce, perhaps this same tired line trotted out by people eager to claim that GW's pricing increases are beyond reproach would be anything more than empty conjecture. My point remains, by the volume of voices here - the price may be correct for them short term, but it's unsustainable, unpopular, and part of a trend that has been going on for years now, and has lost no momentum in terms of fan discontent.

Out here, GW spend hard cash on promotions. They buy out a fair chunk of pages every month in BIG hobby publications, trying to drum up interest. They've done exclusives and all sorts of other stuff too, to try to tap into the lucrative east asian modeling market.

Almost none of it has worked on any scale. And it's got nothing to do with lack of enthusiasm. Japanese Warhammer fans exist. But none of them that I've met really have armies. They pick up models here and there, paint them up, maybe get a smaller game of something in, then back to one of the legions of more cost-efficient alternatives. If GW think the price is correct, bully for them, woo-hoo. But equally, they're wasting their obvious efforts out here to try and create any kind of significant following. Asia is a huge market. GW can't tap into it because of these prices.

Speculate until you're blue in the face about production capacity. These prices aren't sustainable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vorian wrote:


The argument about the pricing structure not being sustainable would be stronger if they hadn't been going through record growth and just invested a significant amount in expanding production.

because if you just keep putting profits first, the bust will never come, right?

I'd urge anyone to use that £32+, and take their mother/father/partner/whatever out for a nice dinner. Buy another round for the boys at the pub. Go to Bandcamp and check out the new page, and see if you can't find something exciting. Buy yourself some fancy ingredients and make something really ooh-la-la for tea tonight. Just don't waste it on five tiny space elves that cost much less this time last year.

Production capacity is everything to do with it.

They have to maximize the profit on what they can produce.

Dropping prices to sell more is completely pointless if they can't produce more.

As they are increasing their production capacity they obviously believe that they can sell more at current prices (which looks true given their results).


Could they expand more in the region's if they dropped prices? I'm certain they could. Do they have any reason to do this currently? Not really.

You can see where they've identified as expansion areas by where they are concentrating their promotion efforts. The US and Germany..

tneva82 wrote:

Thing is if they can't produce more price IS correct for them. Lowering price would have: Same sales(production capability is capped remember), lower price.

Here is the thing. I'm a customer. My sole duty as a rational agent under capitalist system is to acquire goods I want at the lowest possible price. I do not have to worry, if that hurts GW's shareholders, because that's the company's duty, not mine. I want more models, cheaper. Now, obviously in a real world just because I want something it doesn't mean it'll happen, but I can voice my displeasure with their price structure, hoping that it will be amended. And in some cases it is, they repacked 5 stormcast models to 10-size boxes within a year of release because of poor sales.

Vorian wrote:
Production capacity is everything to do with it.

Production has been at capacity this entire time, and that's why the prices have never stopped going up? Wow! Heard it here first, ladies and gents! GW official confirmation that production is at capacity, and surely once the glorious new factory is built, everything will become reasonably priced, finally! An end to hikes, an end to patronizing not-discounts, an end to pricetag creep!

Vorian wrote:
They have to maximize the profit on what they can produce.

They want to. They didn't have to raise the prices. That landraider kit has paid itself off. As have dozens of others. They wanted to raise the price.

Vorian wrote:
Dropping prices to sell more is completely pointless if they can't produce more.

Weird how all I've been talking about is not hiking prices, and keeping things more uniformly priced internationally, yet this has translated to me having some kind of price-drop agenda.

Vorian wrote:
Could they expand more in the region's if they dropped prices? I'm certain they could. Do they have any reason to do this currently? Not really.

You can see where they've identified as expansion areas by where they are concentrating their promotion efforts. The US and Germany..

I've got a shiny new HobbyJapan on my coffee table that would beg to differ. It's even still advertising the SOB box set, because they couldn't sell them out here, and they were on shelves months later... probably something to do with the price being just shy of £200. They buy out space every month. Even bought out a whole special addition. Wanna see it?

Were they at production capacity before this growth? No. That they have had this growth whilst continuing to increase prices shows that price was not the limiting factor.

You can read Rowntree's thoughts in the early reports add to what those problems were and how they were going to ages them (and then see they did).

None of that matters to the current situation where they are selling out what they can make. Increasing production doesn't mean the prices will lower, that will depend on what the real ceiling to their sales at these prices will be.

International pricing is something completely different. They left the prices at historic exchange rates, I can see the logic to that. They don't need to increase volume and local value is not effected by £ fluctuations.

Selling out in Japan is going to be very low down on GW priorities. It is not worth their effort expanding there currently.

2 boxes of Banshees vs. 1/7 Holo from Wolf and Spice painted, in a wedding dress. I know what I would choose.

The paradise island of modeling doesn't need GW.

Vorian wrote:
Were they at production capacity before this growth? No. That they have had this growth whilst continuing to increase prices shows that price was not the limiting factor.

From what I understand, the factory has always been working at full capacity, actually. Because otherwise they lose money. Might have more to do with having a fethton more of plastic kits and needing to spread production more over all of them than anything else.

So "but production capacity" must be this decade's "but minimum wage".

They've been steadily bringing in more machines (and swapping out older kit for new faster, bigger ones) so it's not been a critical issue until recently as lots of new kits keep coming out and lots of new (and old) gamers join the GW party

it's just that they've now hit the point of no more space to do squeeze anything else in and no more power to run it either (I don't think the new substation is done yet?) until the expansion is finished

so now the more popular they get the worse their production capacity gets hit, every (net) new gamer they means extra stuff they need to make they can't increase production to do

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
They've been steadily bringing in more machines (and swapping out older kit for new faster, bigger ones) so it's not been a critical issue until recently as lots of new kits keep coming out and lots of new (and old) gamers join the GW party

it's just that they've now hit the point of no more space to do squeeze anything else in and no more power to run it either (I don't think the new substation is done yet?) until the expansion is finished

so now the more popular they get the worse their production capacity gets hit, every (net) new gamer they means extra stuff they need to make they can't increase production to do

I heard they hit the electric grid's hard limit a couple years ago, maybe more?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
So "but production capacity" must be this decade's "but minimum wage".

The two are not remotely related to each other at all. It's an entirely different point being made.

tneva82 wrote:
AOS is whole another level of mess and prices were hardly the issue.

After the Fireslayers hit the market, even those guys in the Club that liked the new system left because of the prices of those boxes

Vorian wrote:
The simple facts are they can't manufacture enough, so there is no problem with demand. They are charging what enough people are willing to pay to max out their current production capabilities.

This just means that they are good at calculating how much they are going to sell
without knowing how big those production runs were are why exactly they did noot produced more it says nothing about overall sales.

GW confirmed long time ago that they use cheaper material to make molds which makes it possible to make HIPS models to be profitable at lower numbers
and those cheaper molds also have a much shorter lifetime

therefore they cannot make more even if they wanted to, without making their production more expensive

limited manufactoring possibilities is a thing, but this is more a limit on how many new HIPS frames can be produced and not how many items of a single frame

We know they are increasing their manufacturing capacity, they've told us. They've stuck a load of solar panels on the roof and upgraded the power supply.

There's a new factory site (I'm pretty sure?)

We know they've been struggling to keep things in stock.


They are not struggling to sell things, they are struggling to make enough to sell. The prices are not harming them.

From what I recall the new factory is at the same site as their main factory - all in the Nottingham HQ. I think that they land they bought to build it on was even land that they once owned and sold before to make income in the past.

Power Grid issues would still be a problem for a new factory, that's more the local council/electric companies that have to step up the supply and I'm not sure what pressure GW can put on them. Though the new factory might be linked into a different section of the grid so it might not harm it.

I'd also say that stock isn't just about raw production output. Overseas its also about warehousing and affordability of stocking more product in reserve. I think that's something many forget; its not just GW's ability to produce material, but the ability to produce enough that it remains in stock overseas when they only get shipments at set times rather than more ad-hock - which the UK supply chain can support. Which is why the UK supplies tend to appear better because GW can react on almost a weekly basis - if something isn't selling they can scale back production there and focus on what is selling out. For overseas I've no idea how often GW sends shipments out; however it could be a month or two before they can restock.



The prices argument I think comes around a lot because sites like Dakka have a larger number of people on the fringe of moving to other games/hobbies or who have already moved. so the price argument flares up a lot more because its one more nail for some; whilst for others its reinforcing one of their justifications to move on.

Meanwhile those who are still into the game complain, but by and large still justify the costs.

The two groups butt heads the whole time because basically its a matter of affording a non-essential item in life and about justification of costs.

I recall reading in White Dwarf that the AT Warhounds would be £45 but on the Saturday of pre-order they were actually £40.

Having slept on it( always a good thing! ) I think on Saturday we'll all be seeing £22.50 or £25.

you can arque about cheaper price sells more until your face is blue but until you can actually sell more with cheaper price that's irrelevant if they cannot sell more. Especially as halving price would need to more than double the sale count to be even break even proposal.

SamusDrake wrote:
I recall reading in White Dwarf that the AT Warhounds would be £45 but on the Saturday of pre-order they were actually £40.

Having slept on it( always a good thing! ) I think on Saturday we'll all be seeing £22.50 or £25.

Don’t get your hopes up. That was the price shown in white dwarf. These prices are from retailers, which I don’t remember ever being wrong/changed. They only have a week lead time, unlike White Dwarf which had a 3 month lead time.

There's still the outside chance that the Community Article was talking about the content of one sprue being "one kit" whilst the "box" contains two kits/sprue.

Otherwise time to hunt down cheap ones on ebay/facebook from the Blood of Phoenix set (which I note has suddenly gone off sale).

I should point out, I have zero issue with how GW prices their kits or why. I don't need people to try to justify it, or not justify it, etc. GW is their own company and they can do whatever they wish - I do not feel "entitled" to having cheaper minis, I don't expect them to produce minis for cheap as a community service, etc.

However, I also will not refrain from commenting on what damage I think their pricing can do - not to GW, but to younger players and the community moving forward. I know what I find value in, and it's not five small plastic miniatures for $55.00. I'm not saying I can't pay that much, I could, but I choose not to. Likewise I'm not criticizing other people for paying that. I think there are far better ways you could spend your money, but I occasionally binge on "suspiciously" priced hobby items myself - ones which I find value in.

This is a hobby, a "luxury" hobby at that, and I support any company to charge whatever they want. I just happen to support customers and potential customers speaking out about what they think just as well. I think we can all agree GW is charging whatever they can, and will continue to do so. This is not a crime, but it will have a negative effect on some of their customers.

I personally decided about a year and a half ago that there is no future for me and GW, or at least 40K. I have since bought a couple of Shadespire boxes for use in dungeon crawling because I find them to be of a reasonable value (7 miniatures for around $23-24 is reasonable for me). But going forward into 40K is a no go. $100 tanks, $80 transports, $55 for five figures...etc. There is no longer value for me in those products, particularly when I compare them to my other games which provide more fun for less money invested.

What makes me struggle the most with GW is where value exists...and where it doesn't. This, for instance...is pretty insulting:

 ImAGeek wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
I recall reading in White Dwarf that the AT Warhounds would be £45 but on the Saturday of pre-order they were actually £40.

Having slept on it( always a good thing! ) I think on Saturday we'll all be seeing £22.50 or £25.

Don’t get your hopes up. That was the price shown in white dwarf. These prices are from retailers, which I don’t remember ever being wrong/changed. They only have a week lead time, unlike White Dwarf which had a 3 month lead time.

And yet, in retail, mistakes are still made. For now, there's no harm in waiting for the pre-order price on Saturday before we fetch the hounds and pitch forks.

Edit - NM, wrong thread...

 Elbows wrote:


What makes me struggle the most with GW is where value exists...and where it doesn't. This, for instance...is pretty insulting:

Spoiler:

one of those is a discount box the other isn't. and everyone agreed calath was a insanely good deal when it came out

Sure, but what relevance does that have? GW has proven in several cases that they "can" produce miniatures at a reasonable price - they just choose not to. It's not likely GW was losing money on HH boxes, or the Dark Imperium starter box, etc.

Models are models, how you package them is irrelevant. The same can be seen in the yearly Christmas "battle force" boxes, etc. Some of them are occasionally a really solid deal. GW could have those types of boxes available year round, but choose not to - obviously because they can make profit in other places.

When a company shows that they have the ability to sell you reasonably priced miniatures...and then chooses not to, it helps one make up their mind pretty quick about where their money goes.

I think part of the issue is that Aspect Warriors are sort of middle-ground elite units; especially with the modern rules where many once limited elite units are now far more numerous.

Think of Tyranids when once the Zoanthrope was a one or perhaps two elite; steadily its grown and grown and now taking 4 or 8 in a single army isn't out of the question. Aspect warriors are much the same, going from owning a single operational squad to where owning three or four is now quite practical. And those squads have grown from 5 to 10 man units.

The result is that they are still elite, but far less limited than they once were to practically put into an army.

Long story short, the prices are insane. The people that want and love to pay it, please do. However I can say my spending on GW has gone down to record lows as I'm not getting the bang for my buck.

I love the game but that much for 5 little elves ? No way. That is out right robbery and I won't condone it. I didn't get the new tanks that are skirting 100$ USD for ad mech and I love my ad mech, nor did I for marines, nor will I. I'm not going to reward this insane prices with my money.

I'll wait down the road if they ever do an intense deal, otherwise I'll go my whole life without them. The cost of the unit shouldn't be dictated so heavily by role in the army. Even then the prices sky rocket even on core needed units. As I said when they re work the guard infantry kits you already know they will be 60$ for a box of 10. How many new guard armies do you think anyone will make when you will need at effective minimum like 6 boxes of them to be minimal in terms of useful status ?

This model is unsustainable and I'm one of their die hards and I'm saying enough with my money. Who is buying all these new kits for their kids ? What kid is making enough pocket change to play this game and affording say school stuff, car, better push that thought away if you have a GF.

I get some people don't care and will buy them no matter how much they cost. Those people though won't be able to sustain the system forever and if even hard liners are finding this crazy that should be a sign.You can argue the market, demand, etc, etc. Without seeing the numbers we don't know how much of this is a selling more or selling higher thats driving the profits. We don't see production numbers, sales numbers, know the profit margin. All we know for sure is they are making profits, high ones but not precisely where they are coming from in the numbers.

If these numbers are accurate and I believe for bad they probably are this is a step too far. I'm glad I don't need the new kits aside from one of the characters. They've priced me out to just a small kit guy, and keeping an eye on the deals.

The more " they know best comments that come " What are they going to say if GW shoot themselves with that mentality ? Oh yes then it'll be all our fault for not supporting them more. The company itself can do no wrong, it's all our fault. That's such a twisted way to view things.

If I were an eldar player I wouldn't be so eager for upgrades to these old kits at these prices. The company will do what it will but if it fails and rots on the vine that is their fault not the customers.

It has nothing to do with the cost but feeling like you're getting value for your dollar, this isn't it, not anymore.

It seems 40k is going down the" WHFB in its waning twilight route" Lower and lower pts costs, meaning armies having to be bigger and bigger... while price per model steadily going up. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if 40k end times is on the books..

"Warhammer Age of the Emperor"
As long as space marines continue to exists and continue to sell. It doesn't matter about other armies or the lore or anything really does it from a company perspective right?

I really hope not but as I said, it'll be all our fault if it happens I guess.

Vorian wrote:
The two are not remotely related to each other at all. It's an entirely different point being made.

I think you perhaps missed what I was saying.

 Elbows wrote:
Here's the thing; GW is big enough that they've likely never "lost" money on anything they've produced in the past 5-10 years, maybe even before that. Now, do they have sales expectations? Sure, but there is no massive investment they're losing money on if a kit has poor sales.

Historically people talk about plastic molds being exorbitantly expensive, and they are - but not for a company of GW's size. Plastic molds are very expensive for smaller companies, because they can be in the tens of thousands of dollars to get up and running. GW is beyond that concern.

Most of the Blood of the Phoenix box was old kits anyway, long-term molds they've already abused for 20+ years (yep, the Falcon and Vyper came out in...1997?). Those molds have long since paid themselves off.

Let's make a bizarre assumption. Say a mold for the Howling Banshees kit is $50,000 USD (which it's likely not, I'm exaggerating for the purposes of this discussion). Do we think GW won't sell more than 1,000 copies of a $55 box within the first week they sell that kit? Consider the world wide sales of a new GW kit. Hell yes they probably will. So it's not a discussion of losing money, or recouping losses...unless you simply mean that over 5-10 years a mold/kit underperforms compared to other kits...but that's the nature of the beast.

There's a lot of fallacies in this post.
Plastic moulds are expensive, regardless of the size of company making them. cheaper than 10 years ago, certainly, but not a trivial cost. Large companies are better able to absorb those costs, but any sensibly run company will still want each new product to pay off upfront costs in a reasonable window - ideally within the financial year you launch it.

Secondly, the cost of mould-making isn't the only cost is it? those models have to be designed (Ok, in this case, this step is just, "open up Jez's notebooks from the 90s archive"), digitally sculpted, broken up into parts on sprues, etc. someone has to do work to do it, who will be drawing a salary. Using software that needs to be paid for. GW don;t usually say how long this takes, but we can infer from various interviews on podcasts, it's several months. GW is a big business with large overheads, not everything about company scaling favours the bigger player.

All that said, £32.50 for 5 T3 1W aspect warriors (60 points? 75? don;t have my codex to hand) is still bloody expensive. I *might* get some to replace my c2008 metal banshees, if only because the metal ones fall over if on anything but a laser-levelled surface.

Mold making is expensive? They made sure the kit is as small as possible, while still increase/keep the price same as other bigger kit.


And they still have space left over on the sprue, so here's a big rock for the exarch, a triskele, and Ynnari heads, yay for option!

Hefty prices. Not unexpected, but certainly not helpful. Shame for Eldar players who've waited for those kits for so long.

 Argive wrote:
It seems 40k is going down the" WHFB in its waning twilight route" Lower and lower pts costs, meaning armies having to be bigger and bigger... while price per model steadily going up. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if 40k end times is on the books..

"Warhammer Age of the Emperor"
As long as space marines continue to exists and continue to sell. It doesn't matter about other armies or the lore or anything really does it from a company perspective right?

40k already got soft end timed and 8th ed is Age of Girlyman. They didn't go full Age of Sigmar because they saw how poorly it fared, but all the design elements of the release version of Age of Sigmar are present in 8th ed 40k, complete with tacked on emergency rules from the General's Handbook.

Had Age of Sigmar's release version not been rejected, 8th ed 40k wouldn't have points or matched play rules today. Honestly I'm not sure there'd even be power levels (as those are the direct equivalent of the points system introduced in the General's Handbook rather than the actual points system of 8th ed).

Setting and narrative changes are also broadly in line with End Times, Age of Chaos and Sigmar's reconquista. Just with blue and gold Space Marines instead of gold and blue Space Marines.

RFT wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
Here's the thing; GW is big enough that they've likely never "lost" money on anything they've produced in the past 5-10 years, maybe even before that. Now, do they have sales expectations? Sure, but there is no massive investment they're losing money on if a kit has poor sales.

Historically people talk about plastic molds being exorbitantly expensive, and they are - but not for a company of GW's size. Plastic molds are very expensive for smaller companies, because they can be in the tens of thousands of dollars to get up and running. GW is beyond that concern.

Most of the Blood of the Phoenix box was old kits anyway, long-term molds they've already abused for 20+ years (yep, the Falcon and Vyper came out in...1997?). Those molds have long since paid themselves off.

Let's make a bizarre assumption. Say a mold for the Howling Banshees kit is $50,000 USD (which it's likely not, I'm exaggerating for the purposes of this discussion). Do we think GW won't sell more than 1,000 copies of a $55 box within the first week they sell that kit? Consider the world wide sales of a new GW kit. Hell yes they probably will. So it's not a discussion of losing money, or recouping losses...unless you simply mean that over 5-10 years a mold/kit underperforms compared to other kits...but that's the nature of the beast.

There's a lot of fallacies in this post.
Plastic moulds are expensive, regardless of the size of company making them. cheaper than 10 years ago, certainly, but not a trivial cost. Large companies are better able to absorb those costs, but any sensibly run company will still want each new product to pay off upfront costs in a reasonable window - ideally within the financial year you launch it.

Secondly, the cost of mould-making isn't the only cost is it? those models have to be designed (Ok, in this case, this step is just, "open up Jez's notebooks from the 90s archive"), digitally sculpted, broken up into parts on sprues, etc. someone has to do work to do it, who will be drawing a salary. Using software that needs to be paid for. GW don;t usually say how long this takes, but we can infer from various interviews on podcasts, it's several months. GW is a big business with large overheads, not everything about company scaling favours the bigger player.

All that said, £32.50 for 5 T3 1W aspect warriors (60 points? 75? don;t have my codex to hand) is still bloody expensive. I *might* get some to replace my c2008 metal banshees, if only because the metal ones fall over if on anything but a laser-levelled surface.

A few months ago one of the scale modeling podcasts had an interview with someone who worked in the model making industry and they quoted a cost of $1,000 -per part- as a rule of thumb for total cost of a new tooling for a model. That was for steel, the said that shorter use aluminum, which is (apparently) less expensive to tool., I assume because it’s easier or faster (or both) to machine.

RFT wrote:

There's a lot of fallacies in this post.
Plastic moulds are expensive, regardless of the size of company making them. cheaper than 10 years ago, certainly, but not a trivial cost. Large companies are better able to absorb those costs, but any sensibly run company will still want each new product to pay off upfront costs in a reasonable window - ideally within the financial year you launch it.

Secondly, the cost of mould-making isn't the only cost is it? those models have to be designed (Ok, in this case, this step is just, "open up Jez's notebooks from the 90s archive"), digitally sculpted, broken up into parts on sprues, etc. someone has to do work to do it, who will be drawing a salary. Using software that needs to be paid for. GW don;t usually say how long this takes, but we can infer from various interviews on podcasts, it's several months. GW is a big business with large overheads, not everything about company scaling favours the bigger player.

GW said a long time ago that moving casting to in house equipment and switching from Steel to Aluminium reduced the cost a lot, which made it possible for them to make those 15€ small Hero sprues profitable

And as long as design is done in house the costs are trivial as they have to pay the equipment and people anyway no matter if they do something or not.

plastic molds are expensive if you need another company to do it.

so this is why it is cheaper to make one sprue with different models and pay people to remove them

but for GW this is a little bit different

Chopstick wrote:
Mold making is expensive? They made sure the kit is as small as possible, while still increase/keep the price same as other bigger kit.


And they still have space left over on the sprue, so here's a big rock for the exarch, a triskele, and Ynnari heads, yay for option!

Are the five on a single sprue? If so, the price is even more out there.

 kodos wrote:

GW said a long time ago that moving casting to in house equipment and switching from Steel to Aluminium reduced the cost a lot, which made it possible for them to make those 15€ small Hero sprues profitable

And as long as design is done in house the costs are trivial as they have to pay the equipment and people anyway no matter if they do something or not.

plastic molds are expensive if you need another company to do it.

so this is why it is cheaper to make one sprue with different models and pay people to remove them

but for GW this is a little bit different

The idea that the salary of the people who design things and run the equipment is not part of the cost because they're employees is incorrect. They are absolutely part of the cost of producing the kit, but people don't like discussing that because it's much harder to define and impossible without access to internal data that GW probably doesn't really even collect such as employee hours spent on design. This has the additional knock-on effect with the support infrastructure that muddies the water further. A garage operation doesn't have an HR department, likely won't have an accounts payable/receivable departments and will employ few, if any, genuine sales reps. All of those people cost money, and the model kits are the major way that GW makes money. Thus, the cost of those employees does factor into the costs of their kits because they need to cover their other labor costs as the primary income source.

Is the aggregate cost of those employees working on the project and their requisite support lower than contracting it out? One must assume so or otherwise GW would do that instead. However, to say that they don't factor in at all is a fallacy; we tend to hold it aside because it's not useful for discussion but their component of the cost does *absolutely* exist and that nuance is important. If one is discussing the total price of a kit, then the total costs must be considered. Warhammer TV is unlikely to generate significant income on its own, and the Warhammer stores have been known as more or less loss-leaders for a while for many locations. The extra frippery they put out does mean they charge more to protect their margin. Much like the scorpion and the frog, GW will always push to maintain that margin.

On the actual topic, $55 for 5 is a fairly standard pricing point for them these days. However, unlike the Havocs and Retributors which were fairly beefy units with heavy weapons (and cherubs), the Howling Banshees have no where near the options. They're Howling Banshees and that's pretty much it as opposed to the SoB squad which can supplement a normal Battle Sister Squad and has readily cross-compatible parts to introduce diversity into the overall force. Much like Blood of the Phoenix itself, while it is their price point it doesn't feel like it's a particularly great one for these specific models.

Yeah, there are VERY few optional bits in that banshee box. Basically, you've got 5 identical alternate face bits, 1 extra sword and pistol to choose not to make the Exarch, and your choice of 3 exarch weapons. That is it. If you want to swap the arms around on the banshees to vary up the poses, you need to cut them with knives and fill gaps with putty. out of the box, they are as monopose as the metal/finecast that preceded them, with precisely 1, count em 1, additional option included.

Same deal with Incubi, though instead of head options they have little back spike thingy options.

Kind of a far cry from retributors, which is at least a box with 6 heavy weapons, several melee/pistol options for the sarge, a bunch of different looking heads, the two cherubs and a couple other goodies in it.

I'm actually considering getting into sisters or expanding one of my other army projects much more so than getting yet another box of banshees. Doesn't help that they're godawful in game and have been for 4+ editions.

That's very disappointing. The fact there's only 5 is bad enough but they could at least be good for conversions.

 Krinsath wrote:

 kodos wrote:

GW said a long time ago that moving casting to in house equipment and switching from Steel to Aluminium reduced the cost a lot, which made it possible for them to make those 15€ small Hero sprues profitable

And as long as design is done in house the costs are trivial as they have to pay the equipment and people anyway no matter if they do something or not.

plastic molds are expensive if you need another company to do it.

so this is why it is cheaper to make one sprue with different models and pay people to remove them

but for GW this is a little bit different

The idea that the salary of the people who design things and run the equipment is not part of the cost because they're employees is incorrect. They are absolutely part of the cost of producing the kit, but people don't like discussing that because it's much harder to define and impossible without access to internal data that GW probably doesn't really even collect such as employee hours spent on design. This has the additional knock-on effect with the support infrastructure that muddies the water further. A garage operation doesn't have an HR department, likely won't have an accounts payable/receivable departments and will employ few, if any, genuine sales reps. All of those people cost money, and the model kits are the major way that GW makes money. Thus, the cost of those employees does factor into the costs of their kits because they need to cover their other labor costs as the primary income source. .

of course the company has to pay those people and the process
but how they do it has a huge impact on how to price the product and it as more or less an artificial number

the first design that takes the most work need to cover the cost the designer put into it and therefore will be priced higher while the others which are copy&paste with minor changes take less time and therefore should be cheaper.
So a Rhino need to cover the development cost of the tank itself and should be more expensive than a Whirlwind or Predator and the loyalist one is more expensive than the chaos one.

or you consider the long term development and that the design fee is distributed among all products equally

the_scotsman wrote:
If you want to swap the arms around on the banshees to vary up the poses, you need to cut them with knives and fill gaps with putty. out of the box, they are as monopose as the metal/finecast that preceded them, with precisely 1, count em 1, additional option included.

They're fully monopose?? I thought the justification for the higher price than the other sets like shadowspear was that the new models were the more expensive multipose!

adduly wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
If you want to swap the arms around on the banshees to vary up the poses, you need to cut them with knives and fill gaps with putty. out of the box, they are as monopose as the metal/finecast that preceded them, with precisely 1, count em 1, additional option included.

They're fully monopose?? I thought the justification for the higher price than the other sets like shadowspear was that the new models were the more expensive multipose!

They're as multi-pose as the metal or finecast models were, as with those you were perfectly free to chop their arms off and swap them if you liked.

The set comes with 5 pistols, 5 swords, 1 set of mirror swords, 1 executioner, and 1 triskele. It also comes with 6 heads (1 exarch+5 banshees) which are 3-part assemblies, and the middle part is a mask which you can choose to be masked or unmasked.

The masked and unmasked faces are all identical to each other, there's 5 of each.

In terms of extra bits you will have left over when you build the kit, you'll have 6 masks and pieces of equipment. The legs and torsos are all assemblies, there's one way to put them together.

The incubi kit is similar, with one way to assemble each incubus, but the arms will be much more difficult to swap if you decide to deviate from the way the models are designed out of the box because they're paired for the most part holding the weapon with two hands. Instead of alternate helmetless heads, you have alternate back...fins? mostly with different trophies and such stuck to them. In terms of the one swappable member, you can assemble him as a regular incubi with a klaive, or as a klaivex with one of two different sets of demklaive arms. He can be holding the demiklaives locked together darth maul style, or he can hold one in each hand similar to how new Drazar looks.

The main reason you have so few bits despite similar number of sprues is the fact that both incubi and banshees have lots of long, slim equipment. The banshees have the long swords, the long executioner, long legs and the complicated big bulky heads, and the incubi have the super-long klaives and back doodads. Usually, GW is able to stuff a lot of variety into the sprues by including lots of tiny heads, stubbier weapons and little extra things. The "Sprue and a half" design here with the nonstandard weapons limited them a lot in the sprue layout.

EDIT: Sorry, I stand corrected, the incubi do have helmetless heads, but there's no extra back dongles, there's exactly 10 in the box. it does look like the torsos were designed with flat joins like the rest of the dark eldar range though, so you could pair any klaive with any torso. Incubi do look a lot more poseable than banshees, which is good for me because they're the ones I'm getting first.

I'll probably use my existing 5 metal ones, assmble 2 Klaivexes, and use the second with the split demiklaives as Drazar. I have an old metal drazar, I wonder if I can surgically extract his old helmet and put it on the new klaivex...

adduly wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
If you want to swap the arms around on the banshees to vary up the poses, you need to cut them with knives and fill gaps with putty. out of the box, they are as monopose as the metal/finecast that preceded them, with precisely 1, count em 1, additional option included.

They're fully monopose?? I thought the justification for the higher price than the other sets like shadowspear was that the new models were the more expensive multipose!

"Was". Now is the new normal.

 Albertorius wrote:

adduly wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
If you want to swap the arms around on the banshees to vary up the poses, you need to cut them with knives and fill gaps with putty. out of the box, they are as monopose as the metal/finecast that preceded them, with precisely 1, count em 1, additional option included.

They're fully monopose?? I thought the justification for the higher price than the other sets like shadowspear was that the new models were the more expensive multipose!

"Was". Now is the new normal.

ehhhh, the banshee box is particularly egregious. Most of the newer kits at least have 2 drastically different ways to assemble each torso. Full monopose is more unusual.

See Abberrants. Each legs+torso can be used to assemble 2 extremely different looking dudes with different weapons.

 Albertorius wrote:

adduly wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
If you want to swap the arms around on the banshees to vary up the poses, you need to cut them with knives and fill gaps with putty. out of the box, they are as monopose as the metal/finecast that preceded them, with precisely 1, count em 1, additional option included.

They're fully monopose?? I thought the justification for the higher price than the other sets like shadowspear was that the new models were the more expensive multipose!

"Was". Now is the new normal.

I meant that it was said that the reason why shadowspear was so much cheeper than BotP was because SS models were singlepose. A store manager told me the fact the new banshees and incubi were multipose made them have to raise the price due to the higher development price of multipose

Yeah shop managers have been known to say stuff like that.

adduly wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

adduly wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
If you want to swap the arms around on the banshees to vary up the poses, you need to cut them with knives and fill gaps with putty. out of the box, they are as monopose as the metal/finecast that preceded them, with precisely 1, count em 1, additional option included.

They're fully monopose?? I thought the justification for the higher price than the other sets like shadowspear was that the new models were the more expensive multipose!

"Was". Now is the new normal.

I meant that it was said that the reason why shadowspear was so much cheeper than BotP was because SS models were singlepose. A store manager told me the fact the new banshees and incubi were multipose made them have to raise the price due to the higher development price of multipose

I know. I mean that was the excuse they were told to give. Now it will be a different one, or they'll just stop telling it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

ehhhh, the banshee box is particularly egregious. Most of the newer kits at least have 2 drastically different ways to assemble each torso. Full monopose is more unusual.

See Abberrants. Each legs+torso can be used to assemble 2 extremely different looking dudes with different weapons.

Take a look at Sisters, then. Or any Necromunda box, for example.

At least those have optional arms and heads.

Just a quick confirmation that both the Banshees and the Incubi are indeed ￥7700, same price bracket as the Retributor sisters. They are only sold in boxes of 5.

 Geifer wrote:
Hefty prices. Not unexpected, but certainly not helpful. Shame for Eldar players who've waited for those kits for so long.

 Argive wrote:
It seems 40k is going down the" WHFB in its waning twilight route" Lower and lower pts costs, meaning armies having to be bigger and bigger... while price per model steadily going up. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if 40k end times is on the books..

"Warhammer Age of the Emperor"
As long as space marines continue to exists and continue to sell. It doesn't matter about other armies or the lore or anything really does it from a company perspective right?

40k already got soft end timed and 8th ed is Age of Girlyman. They didn't go full Age of Sigmar because they saw how poorly it fared, but all the design elements of the release version of Age of Sigmar are present in 8th ed 40k, complete with tacked on emergency rules from the General's Handbook.

Had Age of Sigmar's release version not been rejected, 8th ed 40k wouldn't have points or matched play rules today. Honestly I'm not sure there'd even be power levels (as those are the direct equivalent of the points system introduced in the General's Handbook rather than the actual points system of 8th ed).

Setting and narrative changes are also broadly in line with End Times, Age of Chaos and Sigmar's reconquista. Just with blue and gold Space Marines instead of gold and blue Space Marines.

I highly doubt they intended to keep the Age of Sigmar free for all sandbox forever. That would have killed any sort of competitive play that GW needs. It also would have meant no more codexes or rule book sales? That wouldn't have made any economic sense for them to do. I really think it was just a temporary placeholder and they were planning to release the GHB all along. But then again tournaments weren't as big of a deal in 2015 as they are now. I heard some weird things from GW employees at the time saying that they wanted wargaming to be more like "Minecraft" and just be a gigantic sandbox where you could do whatever you want. Granted, back in those days I had some hysterical games where we basically just made up rules as we went along, but that got old really fast, and I think they predicted that.

 posermcbogus wrote:
Just a quick confirmation that both the Banshees and the Incubi are indeed ￥7700, same price bracket as the Retributor sisters. They are only sold in boxes of 5.

And retributor is on a bigger mold than this.

The price is not as infuriating as the fact that it was a low effort kit and you won't be seeing another for the next 20-30 years.

Unlike Space Marine who get a new "revamped" kit every 5 years or so, even if they got a meh, low effort kit in the current year, it didn't really matter much compared to any other factions.

...that pricing is exactly what i expect from GW at this point.

I get the pain over the pricing. it's why between oddities in my community and that i don't consider myself as much a part of this as id like to be. the sister scale and pricing changes, combined with weird model changes in general on their end made some of the metals i had picked up being cheaper saw to me no longer caring about the plastic run after waiting 6-7 years for attention from GW on that front.

the cost of the models for the scale of the game to me is ridiculous. almost as bad is their love of what i assume is "dynamic" posing, *glares at Drazhar*. you can make the argument of "well, play their skirmish games"

but the one of draw in any gaming store that actually has GW around is army scale. and for some armies the expansion while staying in GW is so horrendous it's not even funny. if i wanted to play skirmish, id get old blood bowl models or play Mordheim.

they wanna make this stuff as profitable to them despite one of their target ranges getting priced out (not just vs other model industries, but all the lower-end hobbies including gaming), and it just seems nuts. in addition as someone who's still newbie to building models after all these years, ill tell you I really dislike all this attached masonry on the newer sculpts everyones leaping off of- it actually bothers me with regards to both model scale, transport and potential breakage issues.

why exactly does GW want to price itself like this AND play the floor is lava!? I can't be the only one bugged by both factors.

It sucks to get no model attention, but when you do if it's not released in a start collecting with the perfect model arrangement for you, prepare to eat such a higher price. when you also add how often armies get left in the lurch rules wise and for how long some have been, it becomes less and less attractive to play, even with an established community.

the_scotsman wrote:
they are as monopose as the metal/finecast that preceded them

Well it's not like you need more than 5-10 in army.

 Shadenuat wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
they are as monopose as the metal/finecast that preceded them

Well it's not like you need more than 5-10 in army.

.. a valid point even if they where 20 bucks a pack would anyone be running 3 ten man squads?

Ugh, well there it is.



It was pretty forward thinking to stick them in a box of other stuff that doesn't sell well. I guess I'll be picking them up when they do so again.

ya know, maybe my not being an eldar fan means I just don't appreciate em, but I can't help but compare them to some of the newer plastic kits, such as sisters, primaris marines and chaos space marines and think they don't even LOOK that great

BrianDavion wrote:
ya know, maybe my not being an eldar fan means I just don't appreciate em, but I can't help but compare them to some of the newer plastic kits, such as sisters, primaris marines and chaos space marines and think they don't even LOOK that great

No they’re just not up to the same standard as modern GW at its best. I think the Dark Eldar guys are a lot better. In fact if I had to collect an Eldar army of some flavour, I think the Dark Eldar in general are many times better as a model range than Crafty Eldar. As someone who’s loyalty to particular factions is based almost entirely on what I think of the models, I can honestly say that Dark Eldar and Genestealer Cults are the only Xenos I’ve been tempted to buy. This release hasn’t done anything to change that.

I just bought a box of GSC Jackals to paint up last week, same rrp as these, so it looks like all the bikes in my kit were actually free. Nice!

JWBS wrote:
I just bought a box of GSC Jackals to paint up last week, same rrp as these, so it looks like all the bikes in my kit were actually free. Nice!

Yes, and they’re better models too. Win, win.

Wow, okay. If I ever want Banshees it will be ebay for pre-owned metals for me. Jeez, crazy prices.

Sorry, Eldar players!

 Da Boss wrote:
Wow, okay. If I ever want Banshees it will be ebay for pre-owned metals for me. Jeez, crazy prices.

Sorry, Eldar players!

It is cheaper to buy a SC then 10 banshees.



Imagine that.

feels bad man.

You can make fairly competent armies with some kitbashing out of 2 CSM SC f.e. for less ten 20 nu banshees.

After being patient and allowing for the possibility that there might have been a pricing error with retailers, the UK price for the Banshees is indeed £32.50.

Up until now I've thought GW to be expensive, but this is outright greed.

Those kind of pricings have a GW tradition for their 8th Edition of a game

The metals are perfectly good miniatures. Definitely think people should go for that instead.
It is a shame for people who waited so long for updates to find that they are so ludicrously priced though.
There is a lot of stuff that GW makes nowadays that I just cannot justify paying the asking price for, and I have a better income than at any point since I have been in the hobby. But I would just feel like a mug paying that much for toys.

It certainly is insult to injury.

On a brighter note I still have Jain Zar, an 3rd edition metal Exarch and enough surviving banshee pieces to cast a 5-lass squad. Also got loads of blades and pistols left over from a Harlequin kit...

I can probably just cast the front face mask and then sculpt the hair. I might actually get a box of Dire Avengers to provide templates for more options - as well as a unit in their own right.

Bdrone wrote:
ill tell you I really dislike all this attached masonry on the newer sculpts everyones leaping off of- it actually bothers me with regards to both model scale, transport and potential breakage issues.

why exactly does GW want to price itself like this AND play the floor is lava!? I can't be the only one bugged by both factors.

The reason they do this is while cast models like this are fragile, 3d printed models or even China cast are even more fragile to the point of unusability.

It is an exercise in trying to protect their line from the emerging disruption.

(And it looks better for reveal shots + if it does break it might mean more money spent on the replacement)

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
ya know, maybe my not being an eldar fan means I just don't appreciate em, but I can't help but compare them to some of the newer plastic kits, such as sisters, primaris marines and chaos space marines and think they don't even LOOK that great

No they’re just not up to the same standard as modern GW at its best. I think the Dark Eldar guys are a lot better. In fact if I had to collect an Eldar army of some flavour, I think the Dark Eldar in general are many times better as a model range than Crafty Eldar.

The Dark Eldar range also has a ton of options for customisation - with the vast majority of parts being cross-compatible and not monopose. I can easily put a Kabalite torso on Scourge legs and give it Wych arms and an Incubi's head if I want to.

adduly wrote:


The reason they do this is while cast models like this are fragile, 3d printed models or even China cast are even more fragile to the point of unusability.

It is an exercise in trying to protect their line from the emerging disruption.

(And it looks better for reveal shots + if it does break it might mean more money spent on the replacement)

...so they are releasing more and more expensive models that are physically less stable... because they want to protect their bottom line.

Maybe they wouldn't need to compromise the already debatable quality if they didn't make it a problem just to buy the things people already like. throw some customers a better bone, maybe?

Happy to admit I was wrong.

I thought it'd be £35. The actual price gives us enough change off that for 2 or 3 Freddos. What a time to be alive!

adduly wrote:

Bdrone wrote:
ill tell you I really dislike all this attached masonry on the newer sculpts everyones leaping off of- it actually bothers me with regards to both model scale, transport and potential breakage issues.

why exactly does GW want to price itself like this AND play the floor is lava!? I can't be the only one bugged by both factors.

The reason they do this is while cast models like this are fragile, 3d printed models or even China cast are even more fragile to the point of unusability.

It is an exercise in trying to protect their line from the emerging disruption.

(And it looks better for reveal shots + if it does break it might mean more money spent on the replacement)

A thing is, GW is mainly doing Display models now

Some people have argued that GW models costs more than comparable other models because they are made for gaming and therefore need a more expensive process to get the dynamic look and be stable on the gaming table.

But in the last 2-3 years the stability of models decreased and even Marines got their share of fragile expensive models

We are now at a point were 3rd party Resin models (and old GW metal models) are cheaper, better suited for gaming and look better than new GW plastic
for those who remember, the end of Fantasy started the same way

Those prices are insane. I was planning to get a couple of squads for my lists but at that price I'll get one at most and even then I'll try places to get them cheaper elsewhere first.

Those are some nasty looking models.

Over £30 from GW is too much, but £25-7 from the 3rd parties is a price I'm content to spend.

32.50€ for Drazhar, who doesn't even look that distinctive compared to his brethren? Oh, eff off, GW.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:
32.50€ for Drazhar, who doesn't even look that distinctive compared to his brethren? Oh, eff off, GW.

I really can't stand the new Drazhar sculpt. It's like they systematically removed everything I liked about his design, and replaced it with gaudy tassels and a stupid soulstone necklace, all wrapped up in a pose that makes it look like he's just lost his balance.

They could halve the cost and I still wouldn't touch it.

It's weird that they've completely obliterated the insectiod elements from the original that made him so distinctive. His original daggers were nicer too.

JWBS wrote:
It's weird that they've completely obliterated the insectiod elements from the original that made him so distinctive. His original daggers were nicer too.

Sculptor be like : " Say what? I have to do more Space elves now? Just get it over with, copy this incubi model and put him on bigger rock, add some bling, done! No more Eldar please!!!!1"

Probably the same thing happen to whoever make the new art/concept.

This race could use some sculptor like the one who did GSC, and Nurgle.

Ugh..... At least now I feel justifed in getting half of BOTP and another 5 banshees of a re-seller when the bOTP dropped (only paid £18 for mine.. should have gotten a full compliment of 30 ).

Watch BOTP fly off the shelves at least now
Im tempted to drop cash on some and re-sell these lol. But then I rmemebered Id be stuck with a bunch of falcolns, vypers and DE surfboarders so not going to bother.. Well played GW.

Chopstick wrote:

JWBS wrote:
It's weird that they've completely obliterated the insectiod elements from the original that made him so distinctive. His original daggers were nicer too.

Sculptor be like : " Say what? I have to do more Space elves now? Just get it over with, copy this incubi model and put him on bigger rock, add some bling, done! No more Eldar please!!!!1"

Probably the same thing happen to whoever make the new art/concept.

This race could use some sculptor like the one who did GSC, and Nurgle.

Indeed. It's not just the Incubi, either. The new Archon they did a while back has an incredibly awkward (not to mention dull) stance, and a face that looks like a slightly perturbed potato.

It's probably no surprise that GW used the old Archon picture for the most recent DE codices.

removed

Those are recasts, which is not allowed on Dakka, please remove the link.

 vipoid wrote:

Chopstick wrote:

JWBS wrote:
It's weird that they've completely obliterated the insectiod elements from the original that made him so distinctive. His original daggers were nicer too.

Sculptor be like : " Say what? I have to do more Space elves now? Just get it over with, copy this incubi model and put him on bigger rock, add some bling, done! No more Eldar please!!!!1"

Probably the same thing happen to whoever make the new art/concept.

This race could use some sculptor like the one who did GSC, and Nurgle.

Indeed. It's not just the Incubi, either. The new Archon they did a while back has an incredibly awkward (not to mention dull) stance, and a face that looks like a slightly perturbed potato.

It's probably no surprise that GW used the old Archon picture for the most recent DE codices.

I find the old Archon much better. But the current Archon made for a pretty nice Corsair Prince conversion. At least when that was something with rules....

Chopstick wrote:

Indeed. It's not just the Incubi, either. The new Archon they did a while back has an incredibly awkward (not to mention dull) stance, and a face that looks like a slightly perturbed potato.

It's probably no surprise that GW used the old Archon picture for the most recent DE codices.

Good point. The plastic Archon is a remarkably boring miniature with a completely static pose. If they were going for "haughty", they missed rather badly and landed on "bored". Which is a crying shame, since Dark Eldar are some of the most athletic and graceful races in the 40k galaxy, and Archons are very much in the lead-from-the-front school of managerial studies.

 Da Boss wrote:
The metals are perfectly good miniatures. Definitely think people should go for that instead.
It is a shame for people who waited so long for updates to find that they are so ludicrously priced though.
There is a lot of stuff that GW makes nowadays that I just cannot justify paying the asking price for, and I have a better income than at any point since I have been in the hobby. But I would just feel like a mug paying that much for toys.

I feel you here - I was thinking about upgrading and expanding - always loved this unit. Thematically, the whole thing. Now, meh. 8euros a piece? Honestly - I don't care about the rules, just, WTF?

Wow, the prices of those Banshees exceeded my expectations. That is absolutely insane even for GW! They're an extremely subpar unit in 8th yet cost 50$ more than 10 primaris? What the hell is this?

I do love people defending this absurdity! GW must not want to sell any of these models.

does anything else come with 28,5mm Bases or is this a new size for Inccubi and Banshee?

The 28mm's came out before these...but I can't remember where - Necromunda maybe, or Sisters?

Looking at the models I have to wonder why the substantial price increase. Some is certainly just price creep but there's one less model and I can't say they look substantially better than the finecast.

 Kirasu wrote:
Wow, the prices of those Banshees exceeded my expectations. That is absolutely insane even for GW! They're an extremely subpar unit in 8th yet cost 50$ more than 10 primaris? What the hell is this?

I do love people defending this absurdity! GW must not want to sell any of these models.

They definitely don’t cost $50 more than 10 Primaris.

 kodos wrote:
does anything else come with 28,5mm Bases or is this a new size for Inccubi and Banshee?

Warcry has them. Most warbands have leaders and elites on 32mm or larger, regulars on 28mm, and scrubs on 25mm.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Wow, the prices of those Banshees exceeded my expectations. That is absolutely insane even for GW! They're an extremely subpar unit in 8th yet cost 50$ more than 10 primaris? What the hell is this?

I do love people defending this absurdity! GW must not want to sell any of these models.

They definitely don’t cost $50 more than 10 Primaris.

10 Banshees ($110) do cost $50 more than 10 Primaris (average squad cost: $60). However, five Banshees do not cost $50 more than 10 Primaris.

Funny how people are surprised about price when it's around where 5 strong elite releases have lately been. You were expecting to get them cheaper than say sisters gets retributors? Lol.

High prices yes but consistent with recent 5 strong elites. GW keeps upping prices so when there's 5 strong elites at price X news ones are def never below X and likely same or more. Once retributors were released it was safe to say these will be at minimum same price. IF not more...

Well a single box adds into your list whooping 58 points. As GW realised that Aspects are weak, they have been getting cheaper and cheaper. Idk how new players are supposed to collect classic looking aspect host they seen in dow or something.

and single mek gun costs around same ballbark and gives even less points. GW doesn't consider points that much.

It's elite slot infantry, it's 5 models. It gets price for those models and points be damned. Tough. But with GW games this is alas what you have to get used to or quit the game which is valid option of course.

Oh. That wasn't the Austrailia/New Zealand price.

Haha.

No.

tneva82 wrote:
and single mek gun costs around same ballbark and gives even less points. GW doesn't consider points that much.

It's elite slot infantry, it's 5 models. It gets price for those models and points be damned. Tough. But with GW games this is alas what you have to get used to or quit the game which is valid option of course.

At current point I am almost set for life. But that in say 1500 list my limited selection of infantry, if we translate it to new prices, costs ~500$ is fascinating.

Voss wrote:
Oh. That wasn't the Austrailia/New Zealand price.

Haha.

No.

Yeah. $90 Australian is ridiculous.


Consider that the wraithguard unit in Australia is $55, occupies the same force slot and can even be built as a melee unit.

They aren't even competitive in their own army list....

tneva82 wrote:
Funny how people are surprised about price when it's around where 5 strong elite releases have lately been. You were expecting to get them cheaper than say sisters gets retributors? Lol.

High prices yes but consistent with recent 5 strong elites. GW keeps upping prices so when there's 5 strong elites at price X news ones are def never below X and likely same or more. Once retributors were released it was safe to say these will be at minimum same price. IF not more...

Considering I don't track the price of every new release I don't think it's unreasonable that I'd be unpleasantly surprised by this price. GW's never been cheap exactly but it's reaching a stage where I'm considering just buying elsewhere as standard.

I'm curious to see when we'll get the first 40€, 25-32mm based character. It seems to only be a matter of time at this point. Of course, I'm still old enough to remember when Abaddon the Despoiler was the first blister pack that I saw that cost more than 100 marks...

Its re-hashing the salt of everyone else, but this release feels like the biggest explicit mistake by GW for some time.

Its a bit like the Wrack release all those years ago. Moving from resin to plastic is a good thing - but the world wasn't crying out for it, because the existing models were not one of those big offenders. (This is tbh, why "gib plastic Aspects" is always a double edged sword - the resin models hold up quite well.) I'm not sure I'd agree they are ugly - I think its a visual upgrade for Banshees and Incubi - but not a massive one, and frankly they still both suck on the table. Is a new player in 3 years time going to pay through the nose to buy them? Maybe, but not today.

Drazhar is terrible. I know its based on *the other fluff picture* but... eh. As people have said, he's gone from being an identifiable character to a Klaivex with more bling. I know "everyone is Primaris now" upsets people, but at least the models have tended to be good.

There is the old bugbear that Ynnari (nuked to death) can't even get SfD on Incubi without using a stratagem, because... uh, reasons.

tneva82 wrote:
Funny how people are surprised about price when it's around where 5 strong elite releases have lately been. You were expecting to get them cheaper than say sisters gets retributors? Lol.

High prices yes but consistent with recent 5 strong elites. GW keeps upping prices so when there's 5 strong elites at price X news ones are def never below X and likely same or more. Once retributors were released it was safe to say these will be at minimum same price. IF not more...

The Retributor kit is a poor example in this case as the banshee kit only contains 3/4s of that kit. In addition to the 5 sisters it has two minor characters. Also they are a heavy squad with bulky guns, not elites with pistols and thin swords..

Personally I have the Retributor kit weighed up at £30, but if I were such a player I'd push the boat out for £32.50. Being a Tyranid player at heart, I did so for the Tyranid Warriors and they are now considered just plain troops.

And we thought Goldsword pricing was steep. Nice models but £32.50? Its like somebody made a joke without a punchline

SamusDrake wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Funny how people are surprised about price when it's around where 5 strong elite releases have lately been. You were expecting to get them cheaper than say sisters gets retributors? Lol.

High prices yes but consistent with recent 5 strong elites. GW keeps upping prices so when there's 5 strong elites at price X news ones are def never below X and likely same or more. Once retributors were released it was safe to say these will be at minimum same price. IF not more...

The Retributor kit is a poor example in this case as the banshee kit only contains 3/4s of that kit. In addition to the 5 sisters it has two minor characters. Also they are a heavy squad with bulky guns, not elites with pistols and thin swords..

Personally I have the Retributor kit weighed up at £30, but if I were such a player I'd push the boat out for £32.50. Being a Tyranid player at heart, I did so for the Tyranid Warriors and they are now considered just plain troops.

Deathsrhourd Terminator is on similar 3 sprue, and it's even more expensive. And it' also happen to be their best seller when it came out. So expect the price to go up another notch for future release.

Voting with my wallet on this one. GW has gone a bridge too far.

If you wanted to max out at 30 banshees to do.a fluffy dedicated detatchment.... thats £195... what in the feth...

Hellebore wrote:
Yeah. $90 Australian is ridiculous.

Consider that the wraithguard unit in Australia is $55, occupies the same force slot and can even be built as a melee unit.

They aren't even competitive in their own army list....

Quoth the GW White Knight: "But they have a Facebook page now!!!"

Anyone who thinks the GW of old is dead hasn't been paying attention...

yet again this is in line with GW's pricing scheme, it's not a suprise (hence why the complaints about the cost began before we even got a cost) but hey, eldar players wanted updated aspect warriors. the phrase "be careful what you wish for" honestly comes to mind

BrianDavion wrote:
the phrase "be careful what you wish for" honestly comes to mind

Which is a bad place to be involving a miniature company... I'm sorry in advance imperial Guard players.

I’m struggling to see how this price is in line with other releases. Intercessors are £35 for ten models. ‘But they’re troops, not Elite Melee specialists’ I hear you cry. Reivers are £35 for ten models and unless I’m mistaken they are elite melee specialists.

I have been very vocal about the need for Xenos players to purchase new kits when they arrive, but even I would struggle to justify this price for so few models on such a paltry sprue.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I’m struggling to see how this price is in line with other releases. Intercessors are £35 for ten models. ‘But they’re troops, not Elite Melee specialists’ I hear you cry. Reivers are £35 for ten models and unless I’m mistaken they are elite melee specialists.

I have been very vocal about the need for Xenos players to purchase new kits when they arrive, but even I would struggle to justify this price for so few models on such a paltry sprue.

Agreed.

A more comparable example is the Harlequins for £25, which includes six good fighters, one of which can be an HQ character. And thats also considering that the Harlequins are by nature a niche, elite army.

Bdrone wrote:

Which is a bad place to be involving a miniature company... I'm sorry in advance imperial Guard players.

Not to worry, GW decisionmakers would rather be found death in a ditch than give the Guard a damn thing at this point.

tneva82 wrote:
Funny how people are surprised about price when it's around where 5 strong elite releases have lately been. You were expecting to get them cheaper than say sisters gets retributors? Lol.

High prices yes but consistent with recent 5 strong elites. GW keeps upping prices so when there's 5 strong elites at price X news ones are def never below X and likely same or more. Once retributors were released it was safe to say these will be at minimum same price. IF not more...

Weren't you earlier saying people should wait to see the awful price is confirmed before complaining ? They waited, and its confirmed. Doesn't matter how in line it is with other rip offs, it's still a damn rip off. The only difference is people wanted to believe it wasn't going to be like that and it was. So some are shocked, and others had better hopes and some knew it and wanted to complain more. As well even some more of these similar expensive boxes actually have some cost built into the box, like Retributors have so many heavy weapons in the box and more options. These are pretty much bare bones and robbery.

So why shouldn't people complain ? Some people just don't want to go " Oh well..everybody knows that gaks fethed. " Sometimes you want to say " This is absurd poo hockey "


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bdrone wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
the phrase "be careful what you wish for" honestly comes to mind

Which is a bad place to be involving a miniature company... I'm sorry in advance imperial Guard players.

If this price stays the same and they do a guard revamp I don't know how any player would find the spare cash to field them. Like 50, 60 dollar troop boxes would be too much. They'd effectively kill the army for most new players.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I’m struggling to see how this price is in line with other releases. Intercessors are £35 for ten models. ‘But they’re troops, not Elite Melee specialists’ I hear you cry. Reivers are £35 for ten models and unless I’m mistaken they are elite melee specialists.

I have been very vocal about the need for Xenos players to purchase new kits when they arrive, but even I would struggle to justify this price for so few models on such a paltry sprue.

Better get ready for Ghaz, I'm imagining his price tag will be quite..Beastly..and I feel bad for you already. I feel bad for all of us.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

Bdrone wrote:

Which is a bad place to be involving a miniature company... I'm sorry in advance imperial Guard players.

Not to worry, GW decisionmakers would rather be found death in a ditch than give the Guard a damn thing at this point.

As sad as it is to say, that's a good thing. As anything they'd make for them would be out of this world expensive.

SamusDrake wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I’m struggling to see how this price is in line with other releases. Intercessors are £35 for ten models. ‘But they’re troops, not Elite Melee specialists’ I hear you cry. Reivers are £35 for ten models and unless I’m mistaken they are elite melee specialists.

I have been very vocal about the need for Xenos players to purchase new kits when they arrive, but even I would struggle to justify this price for so few models on such a paltry sprue.

Agreed.

A more comparable example is the Harlequins for £25, which includes six good fighters, one of which can be an HQ character. And thats also considering that the Harlequins are by nature a niche, elite army.

IMO Harlequins also have vastly better sculpts.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
I’m struggling to see how this price is in line with other releases. Intercessors are £35 for ten models. ‘But they’re troops, not Elite Melee specialists’ I hear you cry. Reivers are £35 for ten models and unless I’m mistaken they are elite melee specialists.

I have been very vocal about the need for Xenos players to purchase new kits when they arrive, but even I would struggle to justify this price for so few models on such a paltry sprue.

Nice to see you changed your mind now that the actual price is known .

They are in line with Khinari and Melusai - both 5 unit options, though they are also duel kits.


That said the price from 3rd parties is down to the £25-7 bracket which is closer to what many thought they would be. So you can get them for less and without jumping through loopholes. Of course it would be nice to get straight from GW prices like that.

 Overread wrote:
They are in line with Khinari and Melusai - both 5 unit options, though they are also duel kits.


That said the price from 3rd parties is down to the £25-7 bracket which is closer to what many thought they would be. So you can get them for less and without jumping through loopholes. Of course it would be nice to get straight from GW prices like that.

£5 more than Khinari and £2.50 more than Melusai

Melusai are on 40mm bases so are just factually more plastic and take up more room.

As you said they are also dual kits.

If you look through the AOS Unit catalogue they had a pretty good thing going:

10 big guys - £37.50
10 small models - £35
5 large models (mounted/elite) - £35
3 larger models - £35
10 smaller or massed models - £30

There are exceptions, but the general drift is that.

What did they did with the Banshee's?

They gave them the £35 price point of either 3 LARGE models or 5 BIG models.

So not only did they price them as if they are large/big, they ALSO reduced it down to 5.

If it was a 10 man banshee squad for £37.50, it would be a small price hike over the marines (xeno tax), but the current price is absolutely insane.

I do agree it is odd pricing on them, especially since the other Aspect model we've got in plastic is way down in the £20s with Dire Avengers. Another 5 man "semi elite" style unit for the Eldar.


10 in a set or a lower price and we'd not have 8 pages or argument over it. In the end though we can grab them from 3rd parties for less and also there's still some kits from the Blood of Phoenix kicking around. Though it is a bit worrisome for the future.


I can only imagine that GW did a rough internal survey and found many Eldar players only using a single five man unit of Aspect warriors of them and thus priced accordingly. Which is odd given that many units like Dire Avengers and Rangers are very popular in 10-15 man units or greater. Especially with how GW has made 40K a bigger and bigger game in terms of model count; and where many of the smaller aspect numbers are likely made up from the fact that most are in finecast right now which does hamper sales.

And how long time ago dire avengers were released?

Remember. When GW stopped doing yearly price hike for every item they instead moved to new SKU's getting steadily higher prices than others. If dire avengers would be released now it would be on this ball mark. If rhino would be released now it would be more around exorcist price mark.

You can't say "equilavent kit from 2 years is cheaper!". Well you can but you are also stating bloody obvious. GW is increasing new SKU prices steadily.

Of course alternative is less new SKU price hikes, more yearly across the range hike so that rhino you buy this year is more expensive than same rhino you bought last year

Better?

Pre-ordered a box over amazon from my FLGS. Torn on “vote with your wallet” Want plastic aspects, but that price point is madness...

Little plastic ladies won out in the end though. So when the next box of aspects comes out, you can thank me for telling GW we wanted them and they were worth producing. And then curse me as you break out your wallet.

But I will be less likely to pick up the next marine kit they make, due to blowing my hobby budget on tiny screaming blenders. So that will send a message as well.

Lets not forget that Dire Avengers box halved in contents, but didn't change in price, a few years ago. They're hardly a brilliant example of non-gougy pricing...

tneva82 wrote:
And how long time ago dire avengers were released?

Remember. When GW stopped doing yearly price hike for every item they instead moved to new SKU's getting steadily higher prices than others. If dire avengers would be released now it would be on this ball mark. If rhino would be released now it would be more around exorcist price mark.

You can't say "equilavent kit from 2 years is cheaper!". Well you can but you are also stating bloody obvious. GW is increasing new SKU prices steadily.

Of course alternative is less new SKU price hikes, more yearly across the range hike so that rhino you buy this year is more expensive than same rhino you bought last year

Better?

I don't mind gradual SKU price increases... but to say these banshees are "gradual" is a bare faced lie.

You can buy Reivers from 2.5 years ago, for £35. A TEN MAN SQUAD.

Or you can buy Banshee's as 5 squad for £32.50.

so this "gradual" price hike has seen us almost double the price? I don't buy it.

 Nevelon wrote:
Pre-ordered a box over amazon from my FLGS. Torn on “vote with your wallet” Want plastic aspects, but that price point is madness...

Little plastic ladies won out in the end though. So when the next box of aspects comes out, you can thank me for telling GW we wanted them and they were worth producing. And then curse me as you break out your wallet.

But I will be less likely to pick up the next marine kit they make, due to blowing my hobby budget on tiny screaming blenders. So that will send a message as well.

You were supposed to destroy the Sith - NOT JOIN THEM!

How much was it to make a ten man squad with the Finecast box sets? I don't remember. Would like to see a comparison.

Not that it's going to justify the price one way or another.

Aspect warrior finecasts sets are £25 each pretty much for all the aspect warriors at present. In several of them you also get 6 not 5 models (5 warriors, 1 exarch)

 Carnikang wrote:
How much was it to make a ten man squad with the Finecast box sets? I don't remember. Would like to see a comparison.

Not that it's going to justify the price one way or another.

I think it would have come to about £50 and you'd have enough parts for 10 Banshees and another two models that could be an exarch or something. Now it's £65 and you get just the 10 models.

I’m usually pretty easy going with GW prices as they are what they are, but these?

Expected the characters at £25 anyway, that was no shock.
£32.50 for 5 banshees though? Definitely a bad joke.
At that price they are competing with FW models and units.

Only reasons I’d ever buy them would be for cheap on eBay.
Or possibly if I needed them for a conversion and had no other options.

pm713 wrote:

 Carnikang wrote:
How much was it to make a ten man squad with the Finecast box sets? I don't remember. Would like to see a comparison.

Not that it's going to justify the price one way or another.

I think it would have come to about £50 and you'd have enough parts for 10 Banshees and another two models that could be an exarch or something. Now it's £65 and you get just the 10 models.

And the spare parts for the exarch or banshee 1 plus spare exarch weapons. About the only things you're missing for a 6 the warrior is a central head segment and backpack plate.

Jackal90 wrote:
I’m usually pretty easy going with GW prices as they are what they are, but these?

Expected the characters at £25 anyway, that was no shock.

Going by the Age of Stupidity characters released recently - or the GSC characters - I was expecting £17.50 or £20.

I can't see a reasonable reason for them costing more than the Biophagus or Abominant, let alone the Jackal Alphus,

Hell, these two are down at the same price as the two big WarCry beasties that just came out? That's insane!

Why would you think they'd be the same price as mostly unnamed characters(Ossiarch guy is an exception, as he was named) that AoS just got released from battleboxes?

They're the same price as the Marine special characters that came out with those books. All are 40mm with "scenic bases".

FYI You can get new banshees for £26 (20% off) for anyone who is interested. Its better than £32.50....

https://lvlupgaming.co.uk/collections/craftworlds/products/craftworlds-eldar-howling-banshees-pre-order

Apparently the despatch date for this is 03/07/2020 I assume that's the 7th of march and not the third of July lol...

Not sure if this will last long term as a discount but worth considering if anyone wanted to get these ladies so thought I'd share to save you some £££ .

I kinda feel like the new Banshees/Incubi kits are even too expensive for kitbashing due to how few bits you get in there. At least with the SoB Retributors I get so many extra bits that I can make 5 Retributors, 2 Cherubs, and then have a ton of left over bits for other crazy projects.

Even at the discounted price I ended up ordering a Lizardmen start collecting box(because new one is coming out so getting a cheap caronsaur is on last orders) and a skyrunner farseer/warlock.

This would have cost me the same as two boxes of the ladies. And I could certainly use another 10-20 in my army but just cant justify not getting carnosaur/dino conversion fodder and a jetbike space wizard for the same price.

Sure, it's nice that the set can be found at discounted prices in some stores/countries.
But as always, if the set had been 20% cheaper, so too would the discounted price have been. Regardless of whether you are accustomed to paying full RRP or X% off, you are paying much more for this set than for comparable sets released just a few years ago.

Did anyone noticed that the normal Infantry Banshees and Incubi are having new Base sizes (28,5cm) ?

It was noticed a good while back, but as GW doesn't actually sell those bases outside of kits at present I think its a detail many are overlooking until they do. Since right now you can't easily rebase your older models (I believe its not a commonly sold base size in general)

Yeah, and they still don't sell the new ork buggy base size (150mm oval). Those guys dropped in november 2018 so there's no real guarantee GW will accommodate anytime soon

It might also be that not enough people are bugging GW to release the bases

Oh sure, maybe. Maybe they're just cautious about Orks since their vehicles are very easily kitbashable and simply putting the conversion on a correct base size would alleviate many peoples fears in regards to modelling for advantage, thus losing out on sales on a quite expensive kit.

My point is simply that GW also might not release 28mm bases for a long while, we really don't know..

 ShortyPreds wrote:
Did anyone noticed that the normal Infantry Banshees and Incubi are having new Base sizes (28,5cm) ?

The same ones as in warcry and repentia sisters then.

Annoying size. I almost lost 1 from my repentia. Was already thinking I have to greenstuff myself copy once repentia box. not even 3rd parties have those yet