So I was on board until I saw those horrendous giants and the guys with Mario mallets. What the heck happened to this army in the design phase? The Infantry and Calvary were totally on point, and the mage needed a quick head swap and leg swap to be just fine and playable.
Then out of nowhere comes these Cow Giants that do not look like they even belong in the same game, let alone the same faction as the elves.
Togusa wrote: Then out of nowhere comes these Cow Giants that do not look like they even belong in the same game, let alone the same faction as the elves.
I actually think it was a good idea. High Elves always had a greek thing going for them. Why not give the new High Elves a little Minoen style, mixing classical greek elements, but adding some bull imagery and elements, but keeping the bull as some sort of wise and powerful creature instead of a dumb brute.
Togusa wrote: Then out of nowhere comes these Cow Giants that do not look like they even belong in the same game, let alone the same faction as the elves.
I actually think it was a good idea. High Elves always had a greek thing going for them. Why not give the new High Elves a little Minoen style, mixing classical greek elements, but adding some bull imagery and elements, but keeping the bull as some sort of wise and powerful creature instead of a dumb brute.
Speaking as someone who deals with cattle every day... bulls are dumb brutes.
Don't put anything that will crap in its food and water up on a pedestal.
Togusa wrote: Then out of nowhere comes these Cow Giants that do not look like they even belong in the same game, let alone the same faction as the elves.
I actually think it was a good idea. High Elves always had a greek thing going for them. Why not give the new High Elves a little Minoen style, mixing classical greek elements, but adding some bull imagery and elements, but keeping the bull as some sort of wise and powerful creature instead of a dumb brute.
Speaking as someone who deals with cattle every day... bulls are dumb brutes.
Don't put anything that will crap in its food and water up on a pedestal.
Removed
The Minoen civilisation used to rever the bull for its strength, power and as a symbol of fertility and prosperity. Yes, the actual animal is indeed distasteful, but pretty much all animals are to certain point. My point was that it was a good idea to integrate bull design to a greek inspired force since the Minoen and the Greeks had much contacts and the former had a lot of cultural impact one the later.
I think the giant-elemental things look good; the oversized horns & hammer aesthetic works for them, the rocks on the back seem very well sculpted, and the armor looks as good as it does on everything else in the faction. It is the associated infantry that missed the mark for me.
I don't mind the hammers, however I wish they'd go for maces or simply a different design of the hammers. The scale of the bull iconography on top of the helmets is an overshot element. Personally would prefer to see the bull as a style on the chest plate and the helmets being more uniformed across the kits.
I don't like the bull but I suspect a broader audience will love it.
The rest of the kits look decent enough, they're AoS fantasy design. I hope there are two or three more kits that haven't been shown.
Man, I hope you guys never saw these if you hate "ridiculous helmets": -Silver Helms -Black Guard -Phoenix Guard -Dark Elf Warriors -High Elf Spearmen -Dragon Princes of Caledor -High Elf Mages
Kanluwen wrote: Man, I hope you guys never saw these if you hate "ridiculous helmets":
-Silver Helms
-Black Guard
-Phoenix Guard
-Dark Elf Warriors
-High Elf Spearmen
-Dragon Princes of Caledor
-High Elf Mages
None of those helms even come close to the ridiculous looking helm this guy is wearing!
I just hope that when the models released that the bull head & horns are a separate piece that must be added to the helm. Or that someone quickly releases a 3d print file for a head/helm without that "feature".....
I agree with the op, the original teasers looked great, these though just don't work for me.
And I'll agree with another poster, it'll stop me buying another army.
Take a look at the chairs on almost any GW dragons - the old ones were huge high backed armchairs strapped to the back of a lithe serpent dragon. Even the Fyreslayers persist in having very abnormally tall almost thrones on the back of their dragons.
If those dragons can fly with a huge chair-sail then I'm sure elves can fight with a few horns on their heads.
As for cows being dumb, lets not forget a lot of captive bred species are not exactly selected for their wild spirited intelligence generation after generation. If anything the more docile, less inspired ones are more likely to get selected for breeding because they are easier to handle.
While I'm not a huge fan of the big cow, that's mostly because it's just a type of unit I'm not big on. I'd rather an elf be riding on something.
Over all I dig the bull imagery.
The other thing is that I don't like the hammer design. Particularly the single-handed ones. The head is too big and they just seem clumsy for both the big guy and the hammer elves. The two-handed ones are fine, though.
Take a look at the chairs on almost any GW dragons - the old ones were huge high backed armchairs strapped to the back of a lithe serpent dragon. Even the Fyreslayers persist in having very abnormally tall almost thrones on the back of their dragons.
If those dragons can fly with a huge chair-sail then I'm sure elves can fight with a few horns on their heads.
only war saddles had such back supports, and those were just for horses. Without them hiting any hard target would come with a huge risk that the rider would be left imbeded in to the target, with the dragon flying away.
Ah and wood bisons that live in the wilds are dumb too. Same with bufflos etc.
Not a big fan of the Hammer elves helmets. One of the art pieces showed them with much smaller curves and what not, and I thought it looked way better.
That's ok, not every faction is for me. I'm still looking forward to Malerion Elves.
Kanluwen wrote: Man, I hope you guys never saw these if you hate "ridiculous helmets":
-Silver Helms
-Black Guard
-Phoenix Guard
-Dark Elf Warriors
-High Elf Spearmen
-Dragon Princes of Caledor
-High Elf Mages
I did see those, and had a problem with those helmets back then too. Phoenix guard must have iron neck muscles to keep their heads up during a stiff breeze.
Ithilmar, yo! Stronger than steel but light as silk.
Something I want to press home:
We're seeing two distinctive 'styles' so far.
The Elementari Temples are where we saw those massive helmets with the bull's heads. The mages we've seen are tied to the Elementari Temples. Apparently the Elementari Temples take cues for weapons and armor from their elements or things that are part of their chosen element. The bulls are something that dwell on the mountains, so the Lumineth devoted to the 'mountain' aspect have taken to displaying it.
The other style are just the 'militias', from what we've got so far information wise. Those are the Auralan Wardens(spearmen) and Sentinels(bowmen) and the Vanari Dawnriders(cavalry).
I'm a fan of everything they've shown so far, except for Teclis' weird pants and his headwrap/shawl thing and his weird facial expression. I feel like the concept art for Teclis with the crown/helmet thing and serene expression was perfect, but was VERY poorly translated in to model format because it wasn't used at all. Oh, and the weird looking Y pose he's in. I like every model shown so far except for Teclis himself.
Honestly I'm planning on thinking about swapping the hammer elves heads for some kind of more Roman helmet, I absolutely love the giant mountain spirits.
For some reason, I feel like they fit the theme of Aelven units, and this could be my opinion but they're not actually cows. They are mountain spirits with giant Feth off hammers. The fact that they seem to be more enlightened Minotaurs helps hammer home the Greek themes I'm enjoying so far. I dunno, I may be an Elf shill.
Take a look at the chairs on almost any GW dragons - the old ones were huge high backed armchairs strapped to the back of a lithe serpent dragon. Even the Fyreslayers persist in having very abnormally tall almost thrones on the back of their dragons.
If those dragons can fly with a huge chair-sail then I'm sure elves can fight with a few horns on their head.
I don't give a crap what the fiction is. I DO care about what the models will look like. I'm neutral on the hammers, but those helmets aren't inspiring me to open my wallet.
Thadin wrote: I'm a fan of everything they've shown so far, except for Teclis' weird pants and his headwrap/shawl thing and his weird facial expression. I feel like the concept art for Teclis with the crown/helmet thing and serene expression was perfect, but was VERY poorly translated in to model format because it wasn't used at all. Oh, and the weird looking Y pose he's in. I like every model shown so far except for Teclis himself.
I am pretty much in the same place. Teclis' baggy pants don't quite work for me. It isn't a deal breaker, just a bit off. I am actually considering starting up an army of Lumineth. I like the more traditional infantry (the spear-men), archers and cavalry for a more standard army (much like Chaos Warriors and Knights) combined with the more fantastical elements of the latest reveals to give the faction some zazz. It has been the latest reveals that have me more invested as I like the mountain and hammer theme in a faction that had otherwise hadn't really grabbed my attention.
I am just not 100% sure about a painting scheme as I kinda want to go with an Alpha Legion metallic blue-green with bronze trim to give them my vision of an Atlantean look to them. I think swarthy skin tone would also look good on the models. Really the only thing holding me up is the fact that I am already so far behind on my painting that I really don't want to add to the pile of shame. If I can ignore that, I wouldn't mind having a second army to allow friends of mine to play AoS but can't afford to start a 'big' army game (read: not skirmish). Plus, I kinda want to support my FLGS when current events blow over.
Thadin wrote: I'm a fan of everything they've shown so far, except for Teclis' weird pants and his headwrap/shawl thing and his weird facial expression. I feel like the concept art for Teclis with the crown/helmet thing and serene expression was perfect, but was VERY poorly translated in to model format because it wasn't used at all. Oh, and the weird looking Y pose he's in. I like every model shown so far except for Teclis himself.
I am pretty much in the same place. Teclis' baggy pants don't quite work for me. It isn't a deal breaker, just a bit off. I am actually considering starting up an army of Lumineth. I like the more traditional infantry (the spear-men), archers and cavalry for a more standard army (much like Chaos Warriors and Knights) combined with the more fantastical elements of the latest reveals to give the faction some zazz. It has been the latest reveals that have me more invested as I like the mountain and hammer theme in a faction that had otherwise hadn't really grabbed my attention.
I am just not 100% sure about a painting scheme as I kinda want to go with an Alpha Legion metallic blue-green with bronze trim to give them my vision of an Atlantean look to them. I think swarthy skin tone would also look good on the models. Really the only thing holding me up is the fact that I am already so far behind on my painting that I really don't want to add to the pile of shame. If I can ignore that, I wouldn't mind having a second army to allow friends of mine to play AoS but can't afford to start a 'big' army game (read: not skirmish). Plus, I kinda want to support my FLGS when current events blow over.
I'm in a good spot to start a new army, so that's nice for me. I've got no idea how I want to paint them. I've been practicing the white armor, gold trim with blue and tan cloth on older Elf models (Sisters of Averlorn) but I'm feeling kinda uninspired. Might go for a nice bright blue or purple armor. I bet purple armor and gold trim would look hella regal and pompous, as Elves should be.
Ah and wood bisons that live in the wilds are dumb too. Same with bufflos etc.
They're as smart as they need to be. No dumber than humans, which happily crapped in and drank the same water for 10,000 years before they figured out poopwater isn't that good for them.
Anyway, I like the spear armed units (even if the spears are so long they will snag and make transport a significant emotional event), I kind of grew to like the mountain cow, but I don't like the teclis sphinx and I hate the horned hats on the hammerers. Not the theme, just how amazingly huge the cowhead is.
Also not a fan of the Cow Elves, mountain cow, nor the wizards but really like the spears and cavalry. That empty armour is a thing of beauty however and will be picking that up regardless, might have to get the starter set they announced if it seems like the army is playable with just those limited options (never played AOS before so have no idea).
ingtaer wrote: Also not a fan of the Cow Elves, mountain cow, nor the wizards but really like the spears and cavalry. That empty armour is a thing of beauty however and will be picking that up regardless, might have to get the starter set they announced if it seems like the army is playable with just those limited options (never played AOS before so have no idea).
Army building wise the only mandates are that you take leader and battleline minimum requirements for the point value of the game.
The bull aelves are unlikely to be battleline, whilst I'd imagine that the spears and cavalry and perhaps the archers will be battleline. So long as you take those minimums you can then build your army from whatever else you want up to the maximums (eg at 2K the max for leaders is 6); with no limits on troops, which form the bulk of the models in most armies. War engines and monstrous creatures are both limited (4 of each at 2K) so right now there'd only be 1 model that would fit into that (the huge bull avatar).
Now leaving out the elite infantry and avatar might leave you a little weaker or might leave you "not broken"; however you shouldn't have trouble with a solid core. Plus there's every chance GW might introduce other powerful options. Heck right now with Ossiarchs a whole army of deathriders (basic cavalry) can do pretty darn well.
One could literally build an Ossiarch army by rolling randomly and do well with it; Petrifax Elite sub-faction is that broken. And really, Ossiarchs are more about not screwing up than anything.
At any rate, my bets are:
Spearmen - generic battleline
Archers - battleline with lumineth allegiance
Cavalry - battleline with lumineth allegiance
Horny Elves - maybe battleline with cattlelord general?
Kanluwen wrote: Alarith Stonelords(the "bull helmets") will likely be Battleline with an Alarith Stonemage. I'd imagine the other Elementari Temples might be similar.
Agreed. I wouldn't be surprised to see sub-factions based on the Elementari Temples at some point.
ingtaer wrote: Also not a fan of the Cow Elves, mountain cow, nor the wizards but really like the spears and cavalry. That empty armour is a thing of beauty however and will be picking that up regardless, might have to get the starter set they announced if it seems like the army is playable with just those limited options (never played AOS before so have no idea).
Army building wise the only mandates are that you take leader and battleline minimum requirements for the point value of the game.
The bull aelves are unlikely to be battleline, whilst I'd imagine that the spears and cavalry and perhaps the archers will be battleline. So long as you take those minimums you can then build your army from whatever else you want up to the maximums (eg at 2K the max for leaders is 6); with no limits on troops, which form the bulk of the models in most armies. War engines and monstrous creatures are both limited (4 of each at 2K) so right now there'd only be 1 model that would fit into that (the huge bull avatar).
Now leaving out the elite infantry and avatar might leave you a little weaker or might leave you "not broken"; however you shouldn't have trouble with a solid core. Plus there's every chance GW might introduce other powerful options. Heck right now with Ossiarchs a whole army of deathriders (basic cavalry) can do pretty darn well.
That's what I am hoping for, that I can build an army with the spears, the Calvary and the archers. The hammer bros might be okay if I can do a head swap on them, and I wonder if they might have other weapon options than just the hammers. But I think I'll pass on the other stuff.
They do not have options other than "just the hammers". There's another hammer variant that has a crystal on the back, but these are effectively 'Aspect Warriors' in terms of a concept.
They're called "Alarith Stonelords".
"Alarith" is the Lumineth term for "Mountain", apparently, and the concept is that these Lumineth are trying to make amends for the Lumineth having destroyed Hysh during a philosophical schism.
There's four "Elementari Temples" that are participating in these, each devoted to a specific element: Mountain(Alarith--hence the "Alarith Stonemage", "Alarith Stonelords", and "Alarith Spirit of the Mountain"), Wind(we haven't seen the Lumineth name for them yet nor their associated unit/spirit), Zenith(same as Wind), and River(ditto). Each of the temples has a ritualized set of wargear(sound familiar, Aeldari players?!) associated with it. The Alarith helms have horns from a beast called a "Stoneheart" that dwells on these mountains and are effectively immortal unless they lose their horns--because wildlife in Hysh isn't just going to be crap like mountain goats, there are mountain goats that are magically immortal except for having an Achilles Heel of their horns. The horns are used by the Stonelords and the big 'cowlords' to channel the strength of the mountains(or in the case of the big things, to allow for the spirits to possess the construct intended for them to inhabit).
The link I put on the previous page with Phil Kelly is a tremendous thing to have right now for "figuring out" how this stuff is supposed to work.
What you're asking for, in the form of "an army with the spears, cavalry, and archers" is something they have already confirmed is doable. We've only been shown the 'neutral' side of things with a Teclisian bent towards the Elementari Temples. We've seen nothing from the Tyrionian side of things, which might be where we see more 'mundane' heroes.
Do we know that the Tyrionic side is part of this army? Similarly, do we know how many of the other elements actually engage in battlefield warfare? It could be something like Tau where they have four castes but only one of them really sees the tabletop.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Do we know that the Tyrionic side is part of this army? Similarly, do we know how many of the other elements actually engage in battlefield warfare? It could be something like Tau where they have four castes but only one of them really sees the tabletop.
This was exactly my thinking. We dont yet know if theres any plans to actually make models for other elements.
Personally I think they'll be treated like Stormcast chambers, with a new model line every few years based on a different element. But it could just as easily be the Tau model.
Well interestingly the Tyrionic part of the Empire is the militaristic one so you would think they would be the ones getting models like the Fire Cast do?
It would be really weird for the build-up of mentioning the Lumineth as being devoted to Tyrion and Teclis and not having Tyrion involved.
We haven't really gotten much about the Tyrionic side of things(at least that I have seen), information-wise, just that the basic stuff(Dawnriders, Wardens, Sentinels) are effectively 'neutral' and would show up in a host devoted to either. It sounds like the Tyrionic side of things might be more hero-based than unit-based.
It also was kinda/sorta implied that the Elementari Temples may be more linked to Teclis than Tyrion because they are more warlike which seemed like a kinda weird thing to be said about Teclis?
Similarly, do we know how many of the other elements actually engage in battlefield warfare? It could be something like Tau where they have four castes but only one of them really sees the tabletop.
We see all but the Water and Earth Castes on the tabletop. We see the Fire Caste repping the Fire Warriors, Battlesuits, etc. Air Caste are repping the flyers. Ethereal Caste is the Ethereals.
There is, technically, an Earth Caste model via Farsight but it's basically just a modified Riptide.
All of the Elementari Temples are supposed to get involved with warfare. It sounded a lot like the Alarith are really the only ones with such massive constructs due to the more nebulous nature of the other two 'big' elements(Wind and River) and the last one(Zenith) is one that seemed to be implied to be more of a 'mastery of the other elements' kind of deal.
I think, at most, it might be like Stux mentioned and some of the Elementari Temples or the Tyrionic side of things come later.
But if it's like I'm getting the vibe of?
They've been hinting/implying from what I've seen that Tyrion is more of a 'defender god' than a 'warrior god' these days. I wouldn't be shocked if what makes an army Tyrionic is having specific Tyrionic heroes that are kinda/sorta Paladinish in their appearances and playstyles.
Wouldn't be shocked if Light of Eltharion is part of the Tyrionic side of things to be honest.
Honestly I hope the next hero revealed is a loremaster remake. I just hope the Light of Eltharion isn't the only melee / spell caster hybrid this army gets. As much as I love the mages so far, I feel like we need a few more heroes if that makes sense.
I personnaly wonder if they will add the Phoenix Temple units to the the Lumineth. They are thematically very similar for obvious reasons and could represent the "fire temple" of the new Lumineth.
Kanluwen wrote: Phoenix Temple are in Cities of Sigmar, so probably not.
The Cities of Sigmar book introduced some sort of non-ally mechanic to include Sylvaneth units in Living City and Karadron Overlords in Tempest's Eye. Maybe they could make Phoenix Temple units available in both Cities of Sigmar and the Lumineth Realm Lords with slight differences when it comes to battle and command traits and artefacts in fairly the same way. I would personnaly find this rather smart. The Phenix Temple is basically four units so it's not like it's a huge part of the Cities of Sigmar either.
Kanluwen wrote: They do not have options other than "just the hammers". There's another hammer variant that has a crystal on the back, but these are effectively 'Aspect Warriors' in terms of a concept.
They're called "Alarith Stonelords".
"Alarith" is the Lumineth term for "Mountain", apparently, and the concept is that these Lumineth are trying to make amends for the Lumineth having destroyed Hysh during a philosophical schism.
There's four "Elementari Temples" that are participating in these, each devoted to a specific element: Mountain(Alarith--hence the "Alarith Stonemage", "Alarith Stonelords", and "Alarith Spirit of the Mountain"), Wind(we haven't seen the Lumineth name for them yet nor their associated unit/spirit), Zenith(same as Wind), and River(ditto). Each of the temples has a ritualized set of wargear(sound familiar, Aeldari players?!) associated with it. The Alarith helms have horns from a beast called a "Stoneheart" that dwells on these mountains and are effectively immortal unless they lose their horns--because wildlife in Hysh isn't just going to be crap like mountain goats, there are mountain goats that are magically immortal except for having an Achilles Heel of their horns. The horns are used by the Stonelords and the big 'cowlords' to channel the strength of the mountains(or in the case of the big things, to allow for the spirits to possess the construct intended for them to inhabit).
The link I put on the previous page with Phil Kelly is a tremendous thing to have right now for "figuring out" how this stuff is supposed to work.
What you're asking for, in the form of "an army with the spears, cavalry, and archers" is something they have already confirmed is doable. We've only been shown the 'neutral' side of things with a Teclisian bent towards the Elementari Temples. We've seen nothing from the Tyrionian side of things, which might be where we see more 'mundane' heroes.
it has little to do with "mundane" aesthetics. The Bulls literally do not look like they belong in the same faction, or even the same game. It's unfortunate that the hammer men are hammers only, but at least i now know where i stand. Looks like the starter box is a good deal for me.
Kanluwen wrote: They do not have options other than "just the hammers". There's another hammer variant that has a crystal on the back, but these are effectively 'Aspect Warriors' in terms of a concept.
They're called "Alarith Stonelords".
"Alarith" is the Lumineth term for "Mountain", apparently, and the concept is that these Lumineth are trying to make amends for the Lumineth having destroyed Hysh during a philosophical schism.
There's four "Elementari Temples" that are participating in these, each devoted to a specific element: Mountain(Alarith--hence the "Alarith Stonemage", "Alarith Stonelords", and "Alarith Spirit of the Mountain"), Wind(we haven't seen the Lumineth name for them yet nor their associated unit/spirit), Zenith(same as Wind), and River(ditto). Each of the temples has a ritualized set of wargear(sound familiar, Aeldari players?!) associated with it. The Alarith helms have horns from a beast called a "Stoneheart" that dwells on these mountains and are effectively immortal unless they lose their horns--because wildlife in Hysh isn't just going to be crap like mountain goats, there are mountain goats that are magically immortal except for having an Achilles Heel of their horns. The horns are used by the Stonelords and the big 'cowlords' to channel the strength of the mountains(or in the case of the big things, to allow for the spirits to possess the construct intended for them to inhabit).
The link I put on the previous page with Phil Kelly is a tremendous thing to have right now for "figuring out" how this stuff is supposed to work.
What you're asking for, in the form of "an army with the spears, cavalry, and archers" is something they have already confirmed is doable. We've only been shown the 'neutral' side of things with a Teclisian bent towards the Elementari Temples. We've seen nothing from the Tyrionian side of things, which might be where we see more 'mundane' heroes.
it has little to do with "mundane" aesthetics. The Bulls literally do not look like they belong in the same faction, or even the same game. It's unfortunate that the hammer men are hammers only, but at least i now know where i stand. Looks like the starter box is a good deal for me.
Honestly I think I disagree with you on that. The armor does a good enough job to make them match the rest of the army in my opinion, matching the hammer guys and spear guys armor enough to fit in the same army, and it does a good job of playing up the greco Roman theme with a more high born Minotaur style. At least that’s what I get out of it personally, but I can accept it’s not for everyone. I’m just glad it’s not a variation on a construct of dead elven souls like a wraith knight or the eidolon...
I also feel that the battle cattle fit in with the rest of the faction quite well. They did a very good job of making what is at its core a giant bestigor look completely non-chaos. But it will not appeal to everyone and that is OK.
Kanluwen wrote: They do not have options other than "just the hammers". There's another hammer variant that has a crystal on the back, but these are effectively 'Aspect Warriors' in terms of a concept.
They're called "Alarith Stonelords".
"Alarith" is the Lumineth term for "Mountain", apparently, and the concept is that these Lumineth are trying to make amends for the Lumineth having destroyed Hysh during a philosophical schism.
There's four "Elementari Temples" that are participating in these, each devoted to a specific element: Mountain(Alarith--hence the "Alarith Stonemage", "Alarith Stonelords", and "Alarith Spirit of the Mountain"), Wind(we haven't seen the Lumineth name for them yet nor their associated unit/spirit), Zenith(same as Wind), and River(ditto). Each of the temples has a ritualized set of wargear(sound familiar, Aeldari players?!) associated with it. The Alarith helms have horns from a beast called a "Stoneheart" that dwells on these mountains and are effectively immortal unless they lose their horns--because wildlife in Hysh isn't just going to be crap like mountain goats, there are mountain goats that are magically immortal except for having an Achilles Heel of their horns. The horns are used by the Stonelords and the big 'cowlords' to channel the strength of the mountains(or in the case of the big things, to allow for the spirits to possess the construct intended for them to inhabit).
The link I put on the previous page with Phil Kelly is a tremendous thing to have right now for "figuring out" how this stuff is supposed to work.
What you're asking for, in the form of "an army with the spears, cavalry, and archers" is something they have already confirmed is doable. We've only been shown the 'neutral' side of things with a Teclisian bent towards the Elementari Temples. We've seen nothing from the Tyrionian side of things, which might be where we see more 'mundane' heroes.
it has little to do with "mundane" aesthetics. The Bulls literally do not look like they belong in the same faction, or even the same game. It's unfortunate that the hammer men are hammers only, but at least i now know where i stand. Looks like the starter box is a good deal for me.
Honestly I think I disagree with you on that. The armor does a good enough job to make them match the rest of the army in my opinion, matching the hammer guys and spear guys armor enough to fit in the same army, and it does a good job of playing up the greco Roman theme with a more high born Minotaur style. At least that’s what I get out of it personally, but I can accept it’s not for everyone. I’m just glad it’s not a variation on a construct of dead elven souls like a wraith knight or the eidolon...
Do we know how big the bulls are? Are they demon sized or something more like the dreadnought size?
Comparison and teaser pics we've been shown leads me to think that the Stonelords are going to be about the size of Bloodthirsters, and standing on the same base.
Thadin wrote: Comparison and teaser pics we've been shown leads me to think that the Stonelords are going to be about the size of Bloodthirsters, and standing on the same base.
True, but some art pieces show the battle cattle to be the size of 40k Titans, so I wonder if the Big Version as shown in the art is the "true" size of them and the smaller ones are just aspects, like avatars of Khaine.
Honestly all I am hoping for is an Akhelian King Esque lord at this point. I would love to be able to represent a captain of my own making, just because I am a special snowflake.
I was completely on board with this army until the cow stuff showed up. Now I am instead pledging my blade to the Dark Gods. What a total disappointment. If they had stuck to a conservative High Elf look, I think they would have made a boat load of money.
Even though I am dark elf player to the core, the new releases got me excited to collect some new high elves, but then the cow and hammer aesthetic showed up.. I still may just get a very small part to collect for painting purposes.
ingtaer wrote:Also not a fan of the Cow Elves, mountain cow, nor the wizards but really like the spears and cavalry. That empty armour is a thing of beauty however and will be picking that up regardless
Bloviator wrote:I was completely on board with this army until the cow stuff showed up. Now I am instead pledging my blade to the Dark Gods. What a total disappointment. If they had stuck to a conservative High Elf look, I think they would have made a boat load of money.
This, same for me.
The "basic troops" and cavalry had me really excited, but the latest stuff could not impress me less. It doesn't matter really, since I have more than enough projects already, I just feel a bit disappointed after the great start.
The cow stuff doesn't do much for me, but I figure I'll just wait & see how the whole project turns out before passing any real judgment.
The main concern will be "How much of my old non-CoS High Elf stuff can I re-use?". For that I don't need to care about cow models or even lore.
I think one of the main issues is that people are still hung up on high elves.
For some reason they expect them to come back from the grave, so anything different is instantly bad.
They are mountain elves, their fluff and back story push this heavily, so expect a theme that fits.
The mallets look horrible, but they do have alternate heads for them luckily which look less comical.
The helmet decorations also look out of place, maybe better as masks with the horns shortened a bit.
The battle cattle is a win for me.
Really do love how it looks and it’s different at the same time.
But seriously, all this “but high elves used to” just needs to stop, these aren’t high elves.
Don’t get me wrong, I loved the whole high elf theme, but it’s gone for now (likely forever since they ported over characters)
This is no different from how players were screaming at OBR because they weren’t tomb kings.
It’s also no different than it will be when a mounted army releases and people expect bretts.
Nah. It's that people don't care unless they can proxy their old gak.
These aren't "mountain elves" or "high elves". These are Teclis' Aelves, called the Lumineth. They referred to themselves as "Realmlords" because of the powers they controlled and the fact that they chose to reshape Hysh to their liking.
It didn't go so well and now you have the elemental temples where some Lumineth go and devote themselves to one of the elements to try to bring balance back to Hysh. Alarith('Mountain' rune) are the elemental temple of the Mountains. Phil Kelly explained it in the video I linked earlier(which I even helpfully queued up to him talking) as a Lumineth will go to the mountains and basically undergo a 'trial' from the mountain's spirits to prove themselves worthy. If they succeed, they'll be granted a measure of the mountain's strength. The horns on their helmets come from a functionally immortal creature that is linked to these mountains which the Stonewardens have used as the basis for the construct that the Mountain Spirits enter. The masks are centric to the whole spirit angle, allowing for the spirits to possess the constructs.
These aren't "mountain elves" or "high elves". These are Teclis' Aelves, called the Lumineth. They referred to themselves as "Realmlords" because of the powers they controlled and the fact that they chose to reshape Hysh to their liking.
It didn't go so well and now you have the elemental temples where some Lumineth go and devote themselves to one of the elements to try to bring balance back to Hysh. Alarith('Mountain' rune) are the elemental temple of the Mountains. Phil Kelly explained it in the video I linked earlier(which I even helpfully queued up to him talking) as a Lumineth will go to the mountains and basically undergo a 'trial' from the mountain's spirits to prove themselves worthy. If they succeed, they'll be granted a measure of the mountain's strength. The horns on their helmets come from a functionally immortal creature that is linked to these mountains which the Stonewardens have used as the basis for the construct that the Mountain Spirits enter. The masks are centric to the whole spirit angle, allowing for the spirits to possess the constructs.
Blah blah blah....
Doesn't change my opinion that the models equipped with mallets & horned helmets look stupid.
Fortunately I've only seen 4? units (spears/cav/Teclis/mallets) of the range. 2 I like, 1 I'm neutral on, 1 I won't waste $ on. Two of those I know will cover some of my existing High Elves. So I'll just wait & see.
Dude, i love the new giant cows. I'm so getting 2-3 of them.... For my BoC army. Oh you thought i was getting them for the Aelves? Heck no thats stupid.
Random thought - I wonder if GW in India is a big thing - if not I wonder a good/lawful faction of cow god asthetic models might sell really well out there. Remembering that its only a sort of western view that looks down on "Cows"
Slavs had a pagan god whose name was more or less Bull . he was part of a tree face trinity of gods. was the god magic, traders, craft, vows, art but his main thing was wealth. he was a god of the underworld, even if he himself was a god made out of light. His antagonis Perun, whose name means thunder.
And they were very similar in their dynamics to the hindu Waruna and Mitra.
Overread wrote: Random thought - I wonder if GW in India is a big thing - if not I wonder a good/lawful faction of cow god asthetic models might sell really well out there. Remembering that its only a sort of western view that looks down on "Cows"
Like I said, a lot of it is also just that people are choosing to ignore elements of the lore that they handed out to us with the preview of the Alarith Stonelords. They're not living creatures. They're elementals.
Overread wrote: Random thought - I wonder if GW in India is a big thing - if not I wonder a good/lawful faction of cow god asthetic models might sell really well out there. Remembering that its only a sort of western view that looks down on "Cows"
Thats why we have Tau in 40k for each into another demographic. So that could be true.
Overread wrote: Random thought - I wonder if GW in India is a big thing - if not I wonder a good/lawful faction of cow god asthetic models might sell really well out there. Remembering that its only a sort of western view that looks down on "Cows"
Like I said, a lot of it is also just that people are choosing to ignore elements of the lore that they handed out to us with the preview of the Alarith Stonelords. They're not living creatures. They're elementals.
While that also might be true, it could be a good point to start a leap into it tho.
I could do without the silly bovine helmets, but the greek style minotaurs are still a great theme to go along with the other greek inspired armor and weapons in my opinion.I don;t really get all the outrage either. These guys are not high elves, just elves that had to torch passed to them by teclis.
The latest preview for Elfs and their endless spells left me a little confused, and feeling like it was lacking.
Sanctum of Amyntok appears to be missing, or not showing, a very important piece of the rule, where it denotes what "this model" is, in it's little rule blurb. Models inside of the circle? Models that Garrison the circle? Models near it? The circle itself?
I don't recall any other endless spells they teased that they didn't show how they actually worked.
The latest preview for Elfs and their endless spells left me a little confused, and feeling like it was lacking.
Sanctum of Amyntok appears to be missing, or not showing, a very important piece of the rule, where it denotes what "this model" is, in it's little rule blurb. Models inside of the circle? Models that Garrison the circle? Models near it? The circle itself?
I don't recall any other endless spells they teased that they didn't show how they actually worked.
The Twinstones info is incomplete too. 'Each time you cast a spell within 12" it increments a counter on a dice'... And then what?
The latest preview for Elfs and their endless spells left me a little confused, and feeling like it was lacking.
Sanctum of Amyntok appears to be missing, or not showing, a very important piece of the rule, where it denotes what "this model" is, in it's little rule blurb. Models inside of the circle? Models that Garrison the circle? Models near it? The circle itself?
I don't recall any other endless spells they teased that they didn't show how they actually worked.
Yeah, this one felt like it wasn't reviewed, because so much is missing from it that it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
The only ability that seems complete in the preview was the third one, the Rune of Petrification. Other Endless spell previews they don't show movement distances or things like that, so that's not abnormal from that point at least.
I think its more that they are scraping the bottom of the barrel for things they can tease us from the launch of the new model range. They are trying to spread things out against a still uncertain future for them in retail and production of this product.
Even with their warehouses open the global postal system is in chaos and manufacture is still a huge grey area for GW.
It was, seemingly, meant to go with the battle report in a White Dwarf which explains that there's an Aetherquartz mechanic--at least that's the impression I got from Galas' post in the N&R thread.
Isn't it going to be like with all the armies where all good lists have 2-3 of the big kits? like all lists run 2-3 GD, big ships, mamooths etc The fact that one can not take the cows, but then has a bad army, wouldn't smake the cow models a very voluntary option.
Karol wrote: Isn't it going to be like with all the armies where all good lists have 2-3 of the big kits? like all lists run 2-3 GD, big ships, mamooths etc The fact that one can not take the cows, but then has a bad army, wouldn't smake the cow models a very voluntary option.
Not true for most of the tournament competitive armies, it's only really Slaanesh and Khorne where Keeper of Secrets and Bloodthrister armies are king. Even FEC lists have toned down to 1 or 2 Dragons, because players realized that's all that they needed and that Crypt Ghouls are powerful and really good at holding objectives.
Tzeentch, Skaven, Ironjawz, Deepkin, Daughters of Khaine are other powerhouse armies of varying degrees, where their best lists aren't spamming big kits. There are other armies that are at their best without wholly relying on big kits as well, but they're not on the level of the other armies mentioned.
We've yet to see any rules that will make Lumineth an army that makes their army the best with the Minotaur monsters. The only rule shown thus far to make them good, is the "Pick two units to fight when its your turn to pick, instead of 1 unit" special rule their whole army gets that I could see being very powerful for an army with a few, super-strong models/units.
Edit: I didn't count Beastclaw Raiders in the list because their entire army is built around having massive models. That's just their thing. It'd be like complaining that Sons of Behemat are going to have a low model count.
I have never seen a Stormcast Stardrake in a real game either.
I'm tempted to get one just because the model is cool. But yeah, bigger is not always better in Sigmar.
Additionally, the monsters that are also heroes have severe diminishing returns after the first in your army. It's often worth putting your command trait and artefact on it after all! That actually does apply to Ogors, the first Stonehorn with Rune Tokens and Black Clatterhorn etc is an absolute beast! Subsequent Stonehorns are nowhere near as scary.
So yeah, Slaanesh and Khorne are really exceptions, not the rule.
I've got a feeling that Eltharion is going to be quite nasty.
In the N&R Thread, there was a White Dwarf article printed about a battle report, but didn't see anything posted about the actual battle in the thread, and it showed the points cost of a bunch of the models.
For a 7 Wound Hero (Look out Sir), 3+ No Modifier Save, Halve all damage taken from a unit's attacks, beefy melee stat line shown, plus a shooting attack mentioned and probably some other abilities/command abilities to buff allies... Even without speculating on extra abilities, he seems pretty strong for 220 points.
Teclis at 660pts
Scinari Cathallar (Veiled sad wizard) at 140pts
Avalenor (Cow-lord) at 360pts
Alarith Stonemage at 130pts
Overread wrote: Random thought - I wonder if GW in India is a big thing - if not I wonder a good/lawful faction of cow god asthetic models might sell really well out there. Remembering that its only a sort of western view that looks down on "Cows"
No offense, and this isn't directed at you specifically, but the notion that a superficial motif is done to appeal to a foreign culture is ignorant imo. The idea that Tau would appeal to the Asian market because of robots, communism and fish people, is just as dumb. Japanese do stylize the modern imagery of the samurai, but they do just as much for the stereotypical western Knight. There are many more Japanophiles in the West than there are nationalists in Japan. My best friend is from North Africa and a devout Muslim, but he's a Bretonnian through and through. If you were to play a Korean MMO would you exclusively play some white bloke or have no interest unless you could?
Karol wrote: Isn't it going to be like with all the armies where all good lists have 2-3 of the big kits? like all lists run 2-3 GD, big ships, mamooths etc
(Sigh....) No.
All "good lists" do not involve 2-3 of the big kits. And there's more to playing this game well than relying on spamming the biggest most expensive things you can find.
Karol wrote: The fact that one can not take the cows, but then has a bad army, wouldn't smake the cow models a very voluntary option.
There is no evidence to suggest a good list couldn't be made without the cows.
Overread wrote: Random thought - I wonder if GW in India is a big thing - if not I wonder a good/lawful faction of cow god asthetic models might sell really well out there. Remembering that its only a sort of western view that looks down on "Cows"
No offense, and this isn't directed at you specifically, but the notion that a superficial motif is done to appeal to a foreign culture is ignorant imo. The idea that Tau would appeal to the Asian market because of robots, communism and fish people, is just as dumb. Japanese do stylize the modern imagery of the samurai, but they do just as much for the stereotypical western Knight. There are many more Japanophiles in the West than there are nationalists in Japan. My best friend is from North Africa and a devout Muslim, but he's a Bretonnian through and through. If you were to play a Korean MMO would you exclusively play some white bloke or have no interest unless you could?
The Fish part is stupid (PS I had a theory the fish part was b.c of star wars Otoh Gunga), but... Its clear they for sure was influenced by it.
While I agree that several armies have design choices/inspirations ect drawing from different non-western cultures, I'd hardly say that those armies were designed to be sold in that demographic. After all, the design has to appeal to a lot more people to be commercially viable, I'd imagine.
To me personally, the Lumineth seem more Greek inspired than Indian. However, that opinion could skew if we start seeing some ranged Chakram units teased for the army, or other culturally-inspired design choices. Speaking of, has GW released models armed with Chakram before? They've put out a host of 'strange' ranged weapons, but I can't recall seeing any of those.
Thadin wrote: While I agree that several armies have design choices/inspirations ect drawing from different non-western cultures, I'd hardly say that those armies were designed to be sold in that demographic. After all, the design has to appeal to a lot more people to be commercially viable, I'd imagine.
To me personally, the Lumineth seem more Greek inspired than Indian. However, that opinion could skew if we start seeing some ranged Chakram units teased for the army, or other culturally-inspired design choices. Speaking of, has GW released models armed with Chakram before? They've put out a host of 'strange' ranged weapons, but I can't recall seeing any of those.
Yea, the Cypher lords from warcry are the biggest mishmash of asian themes in AoS right now, with Katanas / Dao, Guandao, blade fans, shurikans and Chakrams. And they come from the Realm of light.... hmmm.
Honestly, the Lumineth seem greek themed with the core troops, but the banzai trees on the base divine bovine model and the Stonemage in general has some pretty big eastern influence vibes in my oppinion. The meditation pose on the mage on what looks like a zen pedestal seems to be the biggest thing to come from eastern influences.
it looks like a nice mashup of greek warrior culture and eastern.
And, as for cultural appropriation... Who the feth cares? it's cool. Cool models sell. Eastern warrior culture is interesting, and people may look into it more if they like what they see. Get over it.
Overread wrote: Random thought - I wonder if GW in India is a big thing - if not I wonder a good/lawful faction of cow god asthetic models might sell really well out there. Remembering that its only a sort of western view that looks down on "Cows"
No offense, and this isn't directed at you specifically, but the notion that a superficial motif is done to appeal to a foreign culture is ignorant imo. The idea that Tau would appeal to the Asian market because of robots, communism and fish people, is just as dumb. Japanese do stylize the modern imagery of the samurai, but they do just as much for the stereotypical western Knight. There are many more Japanophiles in the West than there are nationalists in Japan. My best friend is from North Africa and a devout Muslim, but he's a Bretonnian through and through. If you were to play a Korean MMO would you exclusively play some white bloke or have no interest unless you could?
The Fish part is stupid (PS I had a theory the fish part was b.c of star wars Otoh Gunga), but... Its clear they for sure was influenced by it.
They probably considered they would have potential popularity in Asian markets. They also probably considered that westerners also often like a lot of eastern historical and mythical tropes and there would likely be a market for it at home too.
There's also likely a large factor of 'a designer had an idea they thought was cool'.
Another factor is that there's three distinctive design aesthetics:
A) The 'militias' in the form of the Dawnriders, Sentinels, and Wardens. These are fluffed as being neither Tyrionic or Teclisian in designs. Eltharion falls under this bit.
B) The 'elemental temples'. We've only seen Mountain at this juncture. Who knows if we'll see River, Zenith, or Wind.
C) The 'wizards'. The Alarith Stonemage is part of the elemental temple, not the wizards so he gives a weird offset to it. So far it's just Teclis and the Cathallar that are our 'wizards' for the aesthetics.
The new High Elf faction is a bit of a hit and miss. Love some of the models a lot while disliking the others. The Hammer Elves I am not a fan of, and Teclis is weird with his animal. The Cow Giants are the bomb though, love the hell out of them and will probably get myself one as a painting and display model.
I'm a fan of Teclis'... cat... thing, but not a fan of the man himself. I may have said it in this thread earlier, but I fell in love with the serene graceful look he had in the revealed concept art... Then the model gets shown and he's making a sour face, wearing a weird shawl, and wearing some questionable pants, and in an awkward Y-shaped pose. Bleh. Big miss for their centerpiece god. Will need to think of a kitbash for an alternative Teclis.
Thadin wrote: I'm a fan of Teclis'... cat... thing, but not a fan of the man himself. I may have said it in this thread earlier, but I fell in love with the serene graceful look he had in the revealed concept art... Then the model gets shown and he's making a sour face, wearing a weird shawl, and wearing some questionable pants, and in an awkward Y-shaped pose. Bleh. Big miss for their centerpiece god. Will need to think of a kitbash for an alternative Teclis.
Yeah, I agree pretty strongly with this. The Concept art for Teclis was amazing. The execution was awful. Not exactly sure what happened there.
Thadin wrote: Speaking of, has GW released models armed with Chakram before? They've put out a host of 'strange' ranged weapons, but I can't recall seeing any of those.
One sculpt from the Warcry Cypher Lords warband is all I can think of
It's actually rather amazing how bland GW is with weapons in general - there's loads of fancy weapons out there (both real and fantasy) yet GW has always stuck mostly to spears, swords and bows with attachments. You really notice it if you compare to something like the Dynasty Warriors or Soulblade games. I suspect AoS will push the envelope more and more on crazy weapons!
Thadin wrote: Speaking of, has GW released models armed with Chakram before? They've put out a host of 'strange' ranged weapons, but I can't recall seeing any of those.
One sculpt from the Warcry Cypher Lords warband is all I can think of
Earth127 wrote: Warcry minis in general are some of the best and most creative GW has put out over the last few years.
Can't argue with this. With a few exceptions, AoS as a range has been pretty amazing.
Even the flops in AoS, it's really been more a matter of taste. The technical quality has been fantastic.
I'm seriously 100% sure the technical of it is to try and combat some of the 3D printing stuff and to elevate above the huge influx of 3D mini's coming out soon.
Earth127 wrote: Warcry minis in general are some of the best and most creative GW has put out over the last few years.
Can't argue with this. With a few exceptions, AoS as a range has been pretty amazing.
Even the flops in AoS, it's really been more a matter of taste. The technical quality has been fantastic.
I'm seriously 100% sure the technical of it is to try and combat some of the 3D printing stuff and to elevate above the huge influx of 3D mini's coming out soon.
Really that's just saying as a market leader they want to stay ahead of the curve. Not 3D printing specifically, just want to make cutting edge quality minis.
Overread wrote: It's actually rather amazing how bland GW is with weapons in general - there's loads of fancy weapons out there (both real and fantasy) yet GW has always stuck mostly to spears, swords and bows with attachments. You really notice it if you compare to something like the Dynasty Warriors or Soulblade games. I suspect AoS will push the envelope more and more on crazy weapons!
Depends if they're based on real world things like chakrams, or if they're typically 'a spiky mutant french curve' fantasy weapons.
What are the weapons in Dynasty Warriors and Soulblade like?
We've backlog of everything - ideally GW will alternate one then the other but it all depends on how they are going to do things and they might not even fully know as the ymight have to balance week to week based on production and shipping
I'm expecting they will prioritize getting the last psychic awakening books out given they need to.be out in order to be quickly rendered obsolete.
Seriously though, that is what I'm afraid they will do. Hope I'm wrong as I really want those elves to fiddle.around with conversions (and the scions of the flame warband while they're at it!)
Carlovonsexron wrote: Yeah, Inwas hoping they would go on preorder, but am.now afraid we'll have to deal with a solid month of 40k backlog.
I don't think so. We have a huge initial release in the Lumineth just sitting and taking up warehouse space. With GW ramping production back up, they are going to need to start clearing some of that space up.
I've read that up to 90% of sales for a model line occur within the first few weeks of a release, so for something as highly anticipated as the Lumineth they are bound to have tons of stock that needs to be shipped out.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Whelp, looks like no Lumineth this week either. I figured that would be one of the pre orders they would want to get out pretty quickly.
It looks like 9th will be in July. There is a chance the elves will slot in between Spider and Pariah or Pariah and 9th.
Hard to tell, though, since its not entirely clear when they were originally planned. I also figured we would see a preview of more stuff, as what's been shown off so far seems a little light for a new army book.
While Deepkin have a comparable number of units, they have several more characters than we've seen for Cow Elves (3 special characters and 2 generics is a little odd, and the special includes one of the minotaur variants). On the other hand DoK and Fyreslayers are still tiny ranges with few characters, and half of the DoK units were old WFB models...
I agree with some of the stupid HE helmet designs mentioned.
But I would also like to point out 6th edition Phoenix guards were on point compared to earlier or later veriosn.
But...These cow headed stupid loking helmets are just ugly as hell. Certainly not for me. I think they are the worse looking minin GW has produced since ive been hobbying again. I'll even let shrike as you can just put a helmet on him...
I'm glad I have a sizeable OG WHFB HE army all snuggly on sprues waiting to be brough to life.
However, I really did the cavalry and really want the box so I can steal their bits, especially heads for conversions. Cant wait for those! but wont be starting an AOS army. Thought if they did good HE id give it a go but i will be spending my money on OOP stuff on ebay and other models instead.
Carlovonsexron wrote: For me I like the suggestion that's been floating around to cut down off the helmet and just let the bull heads be the helmet/mask.
Works way better to visually tie them to the mountain spirit as well IMO.
I like the Top Knot approach more, where you replace the long bull part with the top knots from Custodes or other armies. Makes them look pretty good, but with TGA down as of writing I have no way to show it.
Also, I think people could find alternative heads. I was thinking this [url=https://www.shapeways.com/product/JAXHBA3NN/sanctuary-sentinel-helemt?optionId=65717534&li=shops] head if the scale is right for the figures, which helps out with the Old Greek / roman helmet other models have.
I am very excited for the release myself, with only one exception. I was hoping to have a loremaster type swordsman for this army to be my general, but sadly it does not seem that will be so.
Meh. The basic helmets look far better than people make them out to be.
Also, the Alarith Stonemage is literally "a loremaster type swordsman"...just with a stave instead of a sword. It's a mage devoted to the Alarith Elemental Temple.
Webstore has been shipping new stuff for basically 3 weeks now, right?
Engine War and its associated goodies were the end of March releases. We're maybe halfway through April's releases now. End of April/ start of May was, prior to the lockdown, looking to be when the Lumineth box set was coming and we don't know if the other stuff was getting released at the same time.
Yeah, because you can actually buy Tzeentch stuff right now.
For the record, I just did some digging. The May White Dwarf(454) is where we were going to get the WarCry rules for Lumineth. It releases at the end of June for non-subscribers. So end of April/start of May for Lumineth was about right, they're still playing catch up from the start of April/end of March right now.
Uggh. I could easily see how that would mean an end of July date for anything fantasy as they have to spam out PA releases, then the new edition of 40k, and then spam out the supplemental releases for it.
I hope that's not the case and we can catch them for pre-order on the 27th (which would coincide with some time off I'll have - convenient!) but I wont get my hopes up.
I can really only cross my fingers that maybe the scions of the flame will get released soon to give us something fantasy to work on while we wait.
I just want to see the faction colors for this army soon. I need to order some Turbodork colorshift paints and I want to know which ones would be best...
How well size wise will the old fantasy heads match up you think? I have some old kits that if the size goes ok would be great for the new hammer elves.
Crap. I don't have any reason not to order this box. I like every model in there, will of course need the Battle Tome, & would have bought a set of cards/tokens/dice anyways ....
Unfortunately not the sort of box you want twice, what with all the extra gubbins and Named Character unless you're looking to sell them. I'll need to wait a bit for the full release of the army after getting this box
Amishprn86 wrote: Yeah if you are playing this army, its a must have box. But if you want to pick up the models and play now and then, just wait for the SC ing box.
Not really. If you don't care for special dices(I loath those. I only use sister one and that's because they are so ungodly awful that you don't accidentally pick them up and roll so good for miracle dices...so they are good because they are so bad...) and cards(never needed cards with my FOC) then you likely will book and models cheaper separately later. That or the models are way more than what I'm willing to pay.
With luck the separate book will have better cover as well!
So yeah. I'm waiting for solo releases(whenever they come. Odds are decent week later. If not august earliest is likely). And those cow helmets will be fixed. Hopefully horns are separate. If not clippers are invented.
Even if all you want is the models, buying this then selling off the excess will be a better deal than the eventual SC box (that is unlikely to hit before Christmas or 2021).
NinthMusketeer wrote: Even if all you want is the models, buying this then selling off the excess will be a better deal than the eventual SC box (that is unlikely to hit before Christmas or 2021).
Plus there is no guarantee this will be the eventual SC box.
I just remember how long I had to wait until Daughters of Khaine got their SC box. I technically had all the models I needed when it finally came out
Preview of rules up. I'm confused on one thing so far, why Lightning Reactions was listed under an Aetherquartz (once per game, per unit) ability, when it effects two units at once.
Preview of rules up. I'm confused on one thing so far, why Lightning Reactions was listed under an Aetherquartz (once per game, per unit) ability, when it effects two units at once.
My reading is that 'Aetherquartz Reserve', 'Heightened Senses' and 'Lightning Reactions' are their Allegiance Abilities.
Lumineth Realm-lords’ allegiance abilities are designed to reflect both the tactics used by their entire race as well as the specific skills and talents of various subsets of their society. The first key rule for your Lumineth army is aetherquartz reserve.
Preview of rules up. I'm confused on one thing so far, why Lightning Reactions was listed under an Aetherquartz (once per game, per unit) ability, when it effects two units at once.
My reading is that 'Aetherquartz Reserve', 'Heightened Senses' and 'Lightning Reactions' are their Allegiance Abilities.
Lumineth Realm-lords’ allegiance abilities are designed to reflect both the tactics used by their entire race as well as the specific skills and talents of various subsets of their society. The first key rule for your Lumineth army is aetherquartz reserve.
I disagree. I hope your interpretation is correct, but I don't think it will be. Heightened Senses was mentioned in the same breath as aetherquartz. Then the wording they put on Lightning Reactions made me question it more as well.
Aetherquartz reserve lets you trigger once-per-unit, once-per-phase abilities with powerful effects. Heightened Senses, for instance, is great for ensuring a key combat goes in your favour!
Finished reading... Tectonic force is a weird ability. Can't say I like it much, I can see it really backfiring on to you. Not sure how to feel about the Subfactions shown.
Wardens (Spearmen) seem really good already. I think they had 2 attacks on their 3" reach spears with rend, and now 6s to hit just dump a mortal wound on the enemy and end the attack sequence. And, every spearman unit can attempt to cast a CV6 spell to boost it up to 5+ to hit. Every unit in the army is a wizard.
And one thing I noticed, the Shining Company ability didn't say Vanari Warden, it just said Vanari. It'll work on the archers as well, as far as I can tell.
Another Edit: I had another read over on it. I think that Heightened Senses is part of Aetherquartz, but Lightning Reactions isn't.
How They Play The Lumineth Realm-lords are a versatile army with a number of rewarding play styles available. We can’t wait to see what combos and lists you come up with!
Broadly, the army is a killer defensive force that excels in tackling enemy charges head on, punishing them with deadly firepower from surprisingly durable core units. This is an army for tacticians and strategists, rewarding you for fighting in formation while disrupting enemies with withering shooting, infantry-shredding cavalry and devastating magic. But how does it all work? First up, your allegiance abilities!
Lumineth Realm-lords’ allegiance abilities are designed to reflect both the tactics used by their entire race as well as the specific skills and talents of various subsets of their society. The first key rule for your Lumineth army is aetherquartz reserve.
Seems clear to me that section of the article is dealing with allegiance abilities.
First off; the last rule is bleh. More mortal wound spam we did not need, and more of GWs inability to transition to a system of 6s to hit = automatic wound, 6s to wound = MW, instead of 6s to hit = skip the whole process.
With that out of the way, I am very impressed with what I am seeing, The shining company rule, in particular, I think is fantastic and very well designed. It provides a powerful bonus but also comes with real downsides and leaves the activation of the effect in player's hands. Having every model needing to be b2b with at least two others, coupled with the bonus being lost permanently should that be broken, effectively eliminates any gamey tactics that would normally accompany such a rule. And it encourages fluffy behavior on the tabletop which I always love to see. While there may be some exploit I am not recognizing, as of now I really like this rule and ditto for the Alarith pushback ability. Good job GW, you were not exaggerating when you said this is a very tactical army.
Picking two units at a time is a nice successor to ASF, without being as broken as simply giving the army ASF would be. I like it as a compromise. We've seen this rule before though, so not as exciting.
Aetherquartz cannot be be wholly assessed until we have everything. Right now it looks pretty powerful, given that battleshock is a commonly-ignored mechanic. But if they lack easy access to immunity the penalty could be notable.
I disagree with your assement on the Alarith ability... I really don't like it. I don't want to give my opponent a free 2" reposition. I'm sure you could think of times where an enemy having one or two more bodies on an objective could have lost you the game. It's 2" in any direction, so long as it ends 1" away from an Alarith model.
About the reduced leadership after using Aetherquartz; GW mentioned earlier that one of their wizards/heros manipulated Battleshock. Vaguely recall something about making an enemy take battleshock instead of you... But, we'll need to wait on specifics. Don't hold your breath on battleshock mattering for Lumineth.
Quick mock-up of how Shining Company can work. You'll maintain the bonus on any Vanari unit, so long as you keep in this formation, and have at least 3 models remaining in the unit. However, the negatives balance it out IMO. Especially the no-charge part.
Thadin wrote: I disagree with your assement on the Alarith ability... I really don't like it. I don't want to give my opponent a free 2" reposition. I'm sure you could think of times where an enemy having one or two more bodies on an objective could have lost you the game. It's 2" in any direction, so long as it ends 1" away from an Alarith model.
So don't give them. You don't have to if you don't think you benefit from it.
Thadin wrote: I disagree with your assement on the Alarith ability... I really don't like it. I don't want to give my opponent a free 2" reposition. I'm sure you could think of times where an enemy having one or two more bodies on an objective could have lost you the game. It's 2" in any direction, so long as it ends 1" away from an Alarith model.
So don't give them. You don't have to if you don't think you benefit from it.
Indeed. If it was automatic my opinion would be very different. But it is a choice, allowing the Lumineth player to only use it when it will be advantageous. It will also require/encourage clever positioning, which I think plays well into the overall tactical theme.
So the play style for these seems like it could a bit tactical, but would you say it’s pretty forgiving/reasonable for new players?
I like the idea of a tough, low model count army and I really like the look of pretty all of these units.
Initially I’ll probably just buy them to paint, but as it looks like you could easily end up with 2k in a just a few purchases! BIG AOS scene near me too.
We don't know yet how they're going to play, beyond what GW has said. What's actually effective vs what GW thinks is effective can be wildly different things. We only have a handful of mechanics and things mentioned by GW to go off of. No actual unit stat lines yet.
So the play style for these seems like it could a bit tactical, but would you say it’s pretty forgiving/reasonable for new players?
I like the idea of a tough, low model count army and I really like the look of pretty all of these units.
Initially I’ll probably just buy them to paint, but as it looks like you could easily end up with 2k in a just a few purchases! BIG AOS scene near me too.
Cheers!
At face value they do not look like a good new player army. However, you spend more time looking at an army than you do playing it. And without a really liking for the army you are playing, it will be harder to learn be cause your head won't be as interested. Go for the army you have a passion for, difficulty be dammed.
"Armies good for new players" is an exercise in futility at this current point in time anyways.
People aren't really playing games outside of their homes right now. You have time to learn the rules for the army and game.
If you're interested in Lumineth, then wait. for. the. book. or the army list to be made available online(which it will be). There is no guarantee that you're looking at a "tough, low model count army" from the outset. We know they can do a list with that centering around the Alarith Stonehearts.
The guy above, from what was said, makes these guys into a Battleline choice:
Those two items go with this and the Stonemage:
Together they form the Aelementari Temple of Alarith("Mountain").
So, we saw some leaks today! Important notes: VERY limited character selection. Eltharion, Teclis, and Avalenor are all named. The Cathaller and Alarith Stonemage are the only two generic Hero options in the army. Lumineth lists are going to be kinda samey it looks like...especially with this note: One Battleline choice using any Great Nation that isn't Ymetria(Teclis' Nation): the Wardens(Pikemen). Alarith Stoneguard(mallet elves) are Battleline in Ymetria. Want to take Sentinels or Dawnriders? You have to take an equivalent number of Wardens. Wait till we get an English bit on this part. The page in question cuts off so you can't see everything, but it might be that for every unit of Wardens you take as Battleline you can take a unit of Sentinels or Dawnriders as Battleline as well. There's a Warscroll Battalion which requires equal numbers though!
-Start of combat, unit champion does D3 MW to enemy unit within 3" on a 2+
-6s to hit do a MW instead
-If you attack something that's charged this turn, you get +1 wound and +1 rend
-Spell: MWs on 5+ instead of 6
Alarith Spirit of the Mountain (340)
- At the start of the combat phase, if this model didn't charge, gain +1 Attack until your next movement phase
-At the end of your hero phase, choose a LUMINETH hero within 3". If that hero is within 3" at the beginning of your next hero phase, it can use a command ability without spending a CP -At the start of the enemy shooting phase, and any melee phase, pick 1 enemy unit with range of this ability. That unit is -1 to hit until the end of that phase. Doesn't stack.
-If this model is within 12" of a friendly STONEMAGE, you can treat this model has having suffered 0 wounds when you reference its damage table
-Command Ability:Start of combat phase, +1 Attack to a ALARITH-AELF unit wholly within 18", doesn't stack and doesn't stack with Avalenor's CA.
Alarith Stonemage (130)
-At the start of the combat phase, you can say this model takes the Stonemage Stance. If you do, this model and ALARITH STONEGUARD units within 12" cannot pile in and gain +1 Rend.
-Gravitational Diversion: Casts on 5. Caster can fly until next hero phase. 1 enemy unit within 18" takes 1 MW, can't fly, and has halved movement until next hero phase.
Scinari Cathallar (140)
-Start of the battleshock phase, pick 1 LUMINETH unit wholly within 18" and roll a die. 2+, you don't make a BS test for that unit. If at least one model from the chosen unit was slain this turn, you can pick 1 enemy unit within 18" which has to do a BS test, adding the number of models from the friendly unit to that roll.
-Darkness of the Soul: Casts on 7. Pick 1 enemy within 18" and visible to the caster, roll 2d6 each time that unit attempts a normal move, charge, or pile-in. If the result is higher than that unit's Bravery, that unit can't complete that action.
Light of Eltharion (220)
-Pick 1 enemy Hero within 3" of this model at the start of the combat phase. Add 1 to the Damage of the Celennari-Klinge for attacks against that hero
-+1 to wound with Krallenschwert des Eltharion if he charged. Also unmodified 6s to hit deal 1 MW in addition.
- In the shooting phase, choose an enemy unit within 18" and roll a dice. 1, nothing happens; 2-4, deal D3 MWs; 5+ deal D6 MWs
-Ignore save modifiers and half damage from ranged and melee attacks.
-Ignore negative hit modifiers. Unmodified hits of 6 deal two hits.
-Command Ability: Friendly units wholly within 24" of this model have bravery 10.
Teclis (660)
-Can cast 1, 2, or 3/4 spells. If 1, its auto cast and cant be unbound. If 2, it's auto cast at 12 but can be unbound. If 3 or 4, it's auto cast at 10 and can be unbound.
-Celennars Aura: +1 to cast, dispel, and unbind
-Can auto dispel 1 endless spell in your hero phase and auto unbind 1 enemy spell in their hero phase
-Friendly units in Celennar's aura ignore spells on a 4+ and an enemy within 18" takes D3 MW.
-Spell 1: 10 to cast. 5+ FNP within 18", can't be cast same turn as Hysh Protection.
-Spell 2: 10 to cast. Roll a dice for each enemy unit within 18" and visible. 1, nothing happens; 2-4 D3 MW, 5+ D6MW
Avalenor (360)
-If this model doesn't charge, +1 Attack
-6s to hit with hammer do 1 MW in addition
-At the end of your hero phase, pick a Hero within 6". If that Hero is still within 6" at the start of your next hero phase, it can use a command ability without costing a CP - -1 to hit for enemies within Hysh Watcher aura
-Treat this model as having suffered 0 wounds if within 12" of a Stonemage
-CA: Choose D3 Alarith-Aelf units wholly within 24". +1 Attack, can't benefit from this and Faith of the Mountains in the same phase.
Alarith Stoneguard (100 for 5, max 15)
-Standard Bearer: RRBS tests
-Unmodified 6 to hit with regular weapons deal 1 extra Damage
-Unmodified 6 to hit deal 1 MW instead
-RR hits with Stratumhammer
Vanari Sentinels (10 for 140, max 20)
-Can pick an enemy unit within 30" of the unit champion that isn't visibble, can attack as if they were visible with the long range profile.
-Two attack profiles
-Unmodified 6+ to hit does 1 MW instead, 5+ with spell
-Wizard if they have the unit champion and 5+ models
Dawnriders (130 for 5, max 20)
-Standard bearer lets you RR Battleshock tests
-Start of combat, can choose to either +1 Attack but only attack non-mounted units with 1 or 2 wounds, or add 2 but can only target unmounted units with a wound value of 1.
-+1 wound and +1 rend on charge
BATTALIONS
Alarith-Temple (120)
-1xAvalenor or Alarith Spirit of the Mountain, 1xAlarith Stonemage, 1-3xAlarith Stoneguard
-STONEGUARD units wholly within 12" of a hero from the same ability can reroll saves but can only move (pile in?) 1"
Auralan-Legion (120)
-1xScinari Cathalar, 2-4xVanari Auralan Sentinels with an equal amount of Vanari Auralan Wardens
-Units within 3" of another unit in this battallion can RR saves of 1
Dawnrider-Lance (120)
-2-3xVanari Dawnriders
-RR 1s to hit on the charge
ALLEGIANCE ABILITIES
Aetherquartz Abilities
-+1 Save when chosen as an attack target
-+1 to hit when chosen to fight
-+1 or reroll cast
-Cast an extra spell
Absorb Despair
-Once per phase, a Cathallar wholly within 18" of a unit who uses an Aetherquartz can absorb it. If they do, don't reduce that units Bravery by 1 and instead choose an enemy unit within 18" of the Cathallar and reduce it's Bravery by 1 for the rest of the battle. An enemy unit can't be affected by this more than once per battle.
Superior Reactions
-When you pick a unit to fight, you can pick two and resolve them in any order (only works during the combat phase, not at start or end of combat phase)
LORE OF HYSH
Speed of Hysh: Casts on 5 Double the movement of a friendly unit within 18" of the caster.
Solar Flare: Casts on 8. Pick a point on the battlefield within 10" of the caster. If there is an endless spell there, dispel it. If there is a unit there, roll # of models dice, Each +6 does 1 MW and until next hero phase -2 to enemy wizards cast, unbinds, and dispels.
Sparkling Light: Casts on 5. Pick an enemy unit within 18", you can reroll missile weapon attacks against that unit until your next hero phase.
Heavenly Blessing: Casts on 6. Give Ethereal to a friendly unit within 18"
Total Darkness: Casts on 8. Until next hero phase, your opponent has to spend 2 CP instead of 1 when using command abilities
Protection of Hysh: Casts on 8. Give a friendly unit wholly within 9" 5+ FNP. Doesn't stack with Teclis'.
LORE OF THE MOUNTAINS
Relentless Calm: Casts on 4. Unit wholly within 18' doesn't have to take BS tests.
Paralyzing Dizziness: Casts on 6. Pick an an enemy unit within 18" of the caster. Until your next hero phase, roll 2d6 each time the unit tries to make a normal move, pile in, or charge (?) move. If the roll is higher than the unit's bravery, it cannot make that move.
Voice of the Mountains: Casts on 6. -2 Bravery to all enemy units until end of turn, and then -1 until your next hero phase.
Living Divide: Casts on 6. Draw a 1mm line to a point 9" from the caster, on a 2+ deal D3 MWs to a unit that lines passes over
Bury: Casts on 7. Pick an enemy model within 18" and visible to the caster. Roll a dice, if the result is higher than the model's Wound characteristic, it is slain. If you roll a 6 and it is not enough to kill, deal D6MW instead.
Stone Attack: Casts on 8. CHoose an enemy unit wholly within 24" and visible to the caster. Roll a number of dice equal to the casting roll. For each result greater than the enemy unit's save value, they take 1 MW. Rolls of 1 or 2 never deal a mortal wound and Saves of "-" count as 6 for this rule.
GRAND NATIONS
ZAITREC
-First cast, unbind, or dispel each hero phase gets +1 and each wizard knows an additional spell
-Command Trait: Can dispel 1 additional spel and can use the first dispell roll for the second
-Artefact: 6+ shrug for MWs, +2 if Teclis is on the battlefield
-Overwhelming Heat: Casts on 7. Enemy unit within 24" has halved movement, and if you roll a die and its equal to or higher than their save, they take D3
ILIATHA
-Connected Souls: +2 Bravery
-Acting with Courage: After a unit uses a command ability, you can choose a friendly unit within 3" of that one. If you do, that unit can also use that command ability without spending a CP. once per phase.
-Command Ability: Used in shooting or comat ph ase. Pick a friendly unit with at least 2 models, they can RR 1s to hit.
-Artefact: When the bearer dies, roll a dice. on a 4+ heal them back to full.
(No mandatory command trait)
SYAR
-Units start with 2 Aetherquartz instead of 1
-Command Ability: Friendly unit wholly within 18" of a hero can use 1 of its Aetherquartz
-Command Trait: Choose 1 enemy hero within 6" of this hero. That enemy hero must attack your general, and your general gets +1 to hit for attacks against that enemy hero
-Artefact: Unmodified 3+ hits always hits, Unmodified 3+ wounds always wound, and unmodified 3s to save always fail.
YMETRICA
-Ignore up to -2 Rend for units in Mountain Stance, instead of -1
-Command Ability: End of combat phase, can use Tectonic Force again against another enemy unit within 1"
-Command Trait: When you pick this guy to fight, instead of fighting you can pick an enemy unti within 1" and deal D3 MW on a 2+.
-Artefact: +1 Attack to chosen weapon, 6+ Shrug, and 5+ Spell ignore
Thanks for posting. There's some pretty spicy stuff in there already, if it ends up being true. But still not the full picture without unit statlines. Teclis seems pretty great... but man, the model is baaaad.
War of Sigmar has the warscroll cards themselves up as photos.
Basic rundown:
Wardens, Dawnriders, and Stoneguard are 4+ saves.
Wardens have 1W while Stoneguard and Dawnriders are 2W each. Stoneguard have a move of 4" while Dawnriders are 14" and Wardens are 6".
Sentinels, Cathallers, and Alarith Stonemages have 5+ saves. Sentinels are 1W each while the other two are Heroes with 5Ws each.
Teclis is a 4+ save with 16W and a sliding scale of stuff, of course.
Light of Eltharion is a 3+ save with 7W and a move of 6".
Avalenor and the generic Stoneheart are both 3+ saves with 14(Avalenor) and 12(generic) wounds each. Move is 6" on both.
Important thing to remember is that we get a bit for "Sunmetal Weapons" on the Vanari(Warden, Sentinel, Dawnrider) units where any unmodified hit rolls of 6 causes a Mortal Wound which we can boost up with the spell "Power of Hysh" to be unmodified hit rolls of 5s or 6s instead so the lack of Rend on our kits doesn't seem to be as big of a deal for that.
Thadin wrote: Thanks for posting. There's some pretty spicy stuff in there already, if it ends up being true. But still not the full picture without unit statlines. Teclis seems pretty great... but man, the model is baaaad.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here is my thoughts on everything from the N&R thread:
These guys seem like they pack a huge punch, but they are fragile with no summoning.
I only have three issues that jump out at me upon just an initial skim
1. Teclis. He pretty much shuts down the magic phase if you are not Nagash or Tzeentch. He also has some busted abilities. That being said, he's only 16W with a base 4+ save. There are plenty of armies that can remove him turn 1 without breaking a sweat, or bracket him very low. Those that rely on magic to do that may have a hard time.
2. The Hammer dudes with the subfaction that makes them battleline looks like it may make them immune to up to rend -2 looks to be pretty good.,
3. The archers I'm not sure on yet. the 5+ to hit mortal wound if the spell goes off seems really good, and may end up being the boogeyman.
Other than that, they don't have a horde discount or summoning, and their aetherquartz boosts are limited. I think their core mechanics seem balanced enough that if there are any issues that a points tweak will fix it.
I do like the archers, but I'm concerned about their low shot count... Though, two shots each at 30" range with a Command Ability is decent enough I suppose.
I'm a fan of the army so far. I play Ossiarchs and Skaven. I won't mind having an army a little lower or even on the power curve.
Edit: Got the alarith ability wrong at first. The ability isn't called "mountain stance" its called Enduring as Rock. And it can trigger before the game starts, and on each of your Hero Phases. Words are hard. Immunity to -2 is really strong, but I don't think it'll be enough defense against Tzeentch Flamers or Seraphon Artillery damage. It'll be big against other more balanced armies, I think.
I'll hold off judgement until I can digest the whole battletome, but I can definitely see a number of potential balance concerns. Still a lot of fun stuff and a lot there for the narrative minded, pretty excited.
Thadin wrote: I do like the archers, but I'm concerned about their low shot count... Though, two shots each at 30" range with a Command Ability is decent enough I suppose.
Which command ability are you getting a second shot from?
cmspano wrote: Those translated points costs don't seem to add up. They said the box set was about 1000 points
No they didn’t. They said it was ”the makings of” a 1000 points list. That is, the basics you need to start. Which it is since it provides a hero and two battleline choices.
I preordered the box, but this army is going to be a very slow grow for me.
Love elves of all kinds, but I have mixed feelings about some of the aesthetics. Biggest offenders are the cow-helmed hammer elves. Might end up doing a head swap on them.
Eldarsif wrote: I preordered the box, but this army is going to be a very slow grow for me.
Love elves of all kinds, but I have mixed feelings about some of the aesthetics. Biggest offenders are the cow-helmed hammer elves. Might end up doing a head swap on them.
Agree. I love the look of the units/models in this box, & the Tome, dice and tokens will all be useful - so I ordered it through my local shop. The rest of the line? We'll just have to see.
Maybe I add some of them over time, maybe I don't & simply expand with more cav/spears....
The archers seem really broken. With 5+ to MW and the spell to reroll hits they will do 11 MW per volley. Also they can do this in 30 inch and no need for LOS.
That is not funny.
While I agree that it seems nasty for sure, when I checked on the math, the only numbers that got 11 MW was if it was a 30-man unit. According to leaks posted earlier, the Sentinels can only be taken in units of 20 at most.
That'll "only" net you 7 mortal wounds, at 30" range ignoring LOS. On the other hand, they'll only do like, two normal wounds to a unit with a 5+ save, all of this for 280pts. Seems decent enough.
The Wardens, if they're powered up and attacking something that charged them and have 20 models in the unit, will dish out 15-ish mortal wounds and get 9 regular damage through on a 5+ save enemy. Plus, another d3 mortals from their Champion. And getting 20 models to attack a target with a 3" reach won't be that hard.
I thought it was better/worse before, but I'd misread some abilities and glossed over the attack increasing CA being limited to Alarith.
Thadin wrote: While I agree that it seems nasty for sure, when I checked on the math, the only numbers that got 11 MW was if it was a 30-man unit. According to leaks posted earlier, the Sentinels can only be taken in units of 20 at most.
That'll "only" net you 7 mortal wounds, at 30" range ignoring LOS.
Since he mentioned the re-roll spell I’m guessing that was also counted. A full unit has 19 shots, that is 6.33 MWs, you then re-roll the 12.67 dice that ”missed”, getting another 4.22 MWs, for a total of 10.55 MWs from a full unit of 20 archers.
Ah, I didn't count the 18" range spell, since that's also a factor to this. If you have a wizard within 18" range, you'll probably have the unit of archers in 18" that will also change the math.
Edit: I ran it with full rerolls at the 30" profile... Still only getting 8.333 mortal wounds. Lost as to what math is being used
Thadin wrote: Ah, I didn't count the 18" range spell, since that's also a factor to this. If you have a wizard within 18" range, you'll probably have the unit of archers in 18" that will also change the math.
Edit: I ran it with full rerolls at the 30" profile... Still only getting 8.333 mortal wounds. Lost as to what math is being used
...I just showed the math in my previous post. You do MWs on 5+ (so a third of the shots) and re-roll all the 1-4s for a second chance at MWs.
So, sort of scuffed math by rerolling the 4s that hit, hoping for more MWs. If that's even possible, the wording could be off. Saying you rerolled "missed" hits didn't really tell me that you were counting actual hits in there as well.
Modern wording for re-rolls would permit even 'hits' of 4 to be re-rolled, and we have no reason to suspect the wording has changed. Regardless, it isn't the raw number of MWs it's the 30" ignore-LoS part.
Forgive the lack of knowledge, jumping into AoS with these guys as a slow grow project.
A question about paint schemes... I believe the AoS scene tends to have more strict guidelines in place for armies and their appearances, but what is the consensus on custom schemes and running them as a sub-faction? Is it the same approach as 40k? Paint them how you want as a "successor" and the run them with the rules you prefer, according to your own narrative?
Kdash wrote: Forgive the lack of knowledge, jumping into AoS with these guys as a slow grow project.
A question about paint schemes... I believe the AoS scene tends to have more strict guidelines in place for armies and their appearances, but what is the consensus on custom schemes and running them as a sub-faction? Is it the same approach as 40k? Paint them how you want as a "successor" and the run them with the rules you prefer, according to your own narrative?
Thanks.
I think there have been some tournaments in the past that were more strict on paint guidelines, but honestly its rare. In AoS you only take one core army from a Battletome and you can't mix and match subfactions from the same Tome in a single army. Furthermore most of the subfactions in terms of new rules only get perhaps a few lines of difference, a few unique items and some restrict which models can and cannot take. Broadly speaking there just is not enough there to make it sensible to stick to one subfaction group. Heck the Daughters of Khaine official schemes are basically identical - subtle shade differences of red on pretty much the same areas of armour - I'd wager no one could tell them apart from each other.
So I'd say paint however you want and pick whatever sub-group you want. You'll never confuse your opponent as the VAST majority don't memorise paint schemes anyway. Once you leave Space Marines (who have unique models, upgrade packs and whole codex of their own for sub-groups) most people, even within their armies they collect, cannot tell "official schemes" apart from each other.
Kdash wrote: Forgive the lack of knowledge, jumping into AoS with these guys as a slow grow project.
A question about paint schemes... I believe the AoS scene tends to have more strict guidelines in place for armies and their appearances, but what is the consensus on custom schemes and running them as a sub-faction? Is it the same approach as 40k? Paint them how you want as a "successor" and the run them with the rules you prefer, according to your own narrative?
Thanks.
There is no such restriction within the rules of the game. Maybe at various tourneys, maybe within various playgroups, but not in the rules of the game.
So find out the rules that apply to the environment you'll actually be playing in. If you intend on going to tournament xyz? Read their rules. If you're looking to play at a certain store/club? Find out their specific house rules/expectations.
Kdash wrote: Forgive the lack of knowledge, jumping into AoS with these guys as a slow grow project.
A question about paint schemes... I believe the AoS scene tends to have more strict guidelines in place for armies and their appearances, but what is the consensus on custom schemes and running them as a sub-faction? Is it the same approach as 40k? Paint them how you want as a "successor" and the run them with the rules you prefer, according to your own narrative?
Thanks.
I think there have been some tournaments in the past that were more strict on paint guidelines, but honestly its rare. In AoS you only take one core army from a Battletome and you can't mix and match subfactions from the same Tome in a single army. Furthermore most of the subfactions in terms of new rules only get perhaps a few lines of difference, a few unique items and some restrict which models can and cannot take. Broadly speaking there just is not enough there to make it sensible to stick to one subfaction group. Heck the Daughters of Khaine official schemes are basically identical - subtle shade differences of red on pretty much the same areas of armour - I'd wager no one could tell them apart from each other.
So I'd say paint however you want and pick whatever sub-group you want. You'll never confuse your opponent as the VAST majority don't memorise paint schemes anyway. Once you leave Space Marines (who have unique models, upgrade packs and whole codex of their own for sub-groups) most people, even within their armies they collect, cannot tell "official schemes" apart from each other.
There is no such restriction within the rules of the game. Maybe at various tourneys, maybe within various playgroups, but not in the rules of the game.
So find out the rules that apply to the environment you'll actually be playing in. If you intend on going to tournament xyz? Read their rules. If you're looking to play at a certain store/club? Find out their specific house rules/expectations.
The german leaks actually say reroll any rolls. So you could RAW reroll hits of 4+.
Also note that Teclis can cast the "reroll spell" without even the possibility of dispelling it. So this can be a clear 11 MW on basically anything even on a character hiding out of LOS (or two characters each 5 MW).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Another note on weaknesses of the new elves. Sniper spells such as the deepkin "drowning" spell will be very good against the lumineth. You can snipe the champion of the units and thus shut down their magic and dispel, because they need a champion to be wizards.
I'd also considered model-removing abilities being a weakness, but felt that the spells are typically just too short of range to matter in your average game. The IDK spell, Pressure of the Deeps is Range 12.
Skaven have some ways, like Splinter Spell on a Grey Seer/ Lore of Ruin wizard, but thats 6" range as well. Skryre Relic, The Brass Orb is 6" range, and only works on a 6+ rolled.
Nagash has Hand of Dust, 3" range...
Those are the model-snipe abilities I can think of off the top of my head. I don't see any of them being readily usable and worth taking over other, more generically better spells or relics. Are there any big ones I'm missing?
Thadin wrote: I'd also considered model-removing abilities being a weakness, but felt that the spells are typically just too short of range to matter in your average game. The IDK spell, Pressure of the Deeps is Range 12.
Skaven have some ways, like Splinter Spell on a Grey Seer/ Lore of Ruin wizard, but thats 6" range as well. Skryre Relic, The Brass Orb is 6" range, and only works on a 6+ rolled.
Nagash has Hand of Dust, 3" range...
Those are the model-snipe abilities I can think of off the top of my head. I don't see any of them being readily usable and worth taking over other, more generically better spells or relics. Are there any big ones I'm missing?
I think pressure of the deeps is pretty good for this already. The spear elves are also wizards and will be up close at some point hopefully. The Eidolon of Mathlann can get really close too. And in Idoneth armies you can even avoid being shot of the board by the super archers, since you have forgotten nightmares.
But the archers are really a problem in my oppinion (like totally broken).
Pressure of the Deeps will require you to not be playing one of the Enclaves that mandate a specific spell be taken by your Tidecasters. Just wanted to bring that up.
Kanluwen wrote: Pressure of the Deeps will require you to not be playing one of the Enclaves that mandate a specific spell be taken by your Tidecasters. Just wanted to bring that up.
Correct. This does not concern the Eidolon I think? Put those restrictions are pretty annoying.
IDK player needs a double turn to pull off a first-turn champion snipe on the archers... if the archers are right up on the line of a 18" separated deployment zone. Which, with their 30" range, will be unlikely.
I just don't really see it being a viable option. Besides, if a wizard is within range to cast Pressure of the Depths... its very likely also in range for a gakload of spear attacks, that pump out far more mortal wounds than the archers do, if I may add. Or, they're in range to get hammered in the face or wrecked by Lumineth magic.
Kanluwen wrote: Pressure of the Deeps will require you to not be playing one of the Enclaves that mandate a specific spell be taken by your Tidecasters. Just wanted to bring that up.
Correct. This does not concern the Eidolon I think? Put those restrictions are pretty annoying.
It does not concern the Eidolon of the Sea(which is the caster version) and future potential wizards.
BTW slightly off topic but independent stores generally do they take orders for limited preorders for more than they can deliver? Ie just because you got order in and money taken doesn't actually quarantee you get the product?
tneva82 wrote: BTW slightly off topic but independent stores generally do they take orders for limited preorders for more than they can deliver? Ie just because you got order in and money taken doesn't actually quarantee you get the product?
Where I live, there is a FLGS that I would love to support, but the last limited release products that I tried to get, Carrion Empire and Feast of Bones, both of them didn't arrive to the store at all. Had to drive for hours to go to a store that still had them in stock. This time, I'm ordering it directly through GW and getting it delivered straight to my house.
So, basically, there's no garentee that a FLGS will be sent the boxes that they ordered. I'll go to the FLGS in my town for non-limited or brand new things, but for any new release I want right away, or limited release things, I order right to my home through GW's webstore.
tneva82 wrote: BTW slightly off topic but independent stores generally do they take orders for limited preorders for more than they can deliver? Ie just because you got order in and money taken doesn't actually quarantee you get the product?
Where I live, there is a FLGS that I would love to support, but the last limited release products that I tried to get, Carrion Empire and Feast of Bones, both of them didn't arrive to the store at all. Had to drive for hours to go to a store that still had them in stock. This time, I'm ordering it directly through GW and getting it delivered straight to my house.
So, basically, there's no garentee that a FLGS will be sent the boxes that they ordered. I'll go to the FLGS in my town for non-limited or brand new things, but for any new release I want right away, or limited release things, I order right to my home through GW's webstore.
And to add to this, it also depends on whether the independent has a trade account with GW or if they use another distributor.
If they have a trade account? Safe bet that they'll get allocated enough to cover their preorders, or they'll at least know how many they will be allocated the same day they get all the info.
Using another distributor? That's a bit trickier.
Of course it also requires them to be up front about that kind of info. Seen a few local shops that don't have trade accounts blame my local GW getting stocked for why they don't get any.
tneva82 wrote: BTW slightly off topic but independent stores generally do they take orders for limited preorders for more than they can deliver? Ie just because you got order in and money taken doesn't actually quarantee you get the product?
Where I live, there is a FLGS that I would love to support, but the last limited release products that I tried to get, Carrion Empire and Feast of Bones, both of them didn't arrive to the store at all. Had to drive for hours to go to a store that still had them in stock. This time, I'm ordering it directly through GW and getting it delivered straight to my house.
So, basically, there's no garentee that a FLGS will be sent the boxes that they ordered. I'll go to the FLGS in my town for non-limited or brand new things, but for any new release I want right away, or limited release things, I order right to my home through GW's webstore.
And to add to this, it also depends on whether the independent has a trade account with GW or if they use another distributor.
If they have a trade account? Safe bet that they'll get allocated enough to cover their preorders, or they'll at least know how many they will be allocated the same day they get all the info.
Using another distributor? That's a bit trickier.
Of course it also requires them to be up front about that kind of info. Seen a few local shops that don't have trade accounts blame my local GW getting stocked for why they don't get any.
Oh, that makes sense now. The owner of the FLGS has never blamed GW, but instead blames their 'distributor' for not sending anything. I didn't know that there was a difference in set up like that.
Oh yeah, it's a fairly big deal. GW's trade stuff is supposed to be fairly good but it has 'mandated items' as part of it.
Distributors, to my outsider looking in at that side of things perspective, just seem to add an extra layer between the independent and actually getting things.
Thadin wrote: IDK player needs a double turn to pull off a first-turn champion snipe on the archers... if the archers are right up on the line of a 18" separated deployment zone. Which, with their 30" range, will be unlikely.
I just don't really see it being a viable option. Besides, if a wizard is within range to cast Pressure of the Depths... its very likely also in range for a gakload of spear attacks, that pump out far more mortal wounds than the archers do, if I may add. Or, they're in range to get hammered in the face or wrecked by Lumineth magic.
This might not be good against archers but like i said they are broken. But it might be good against spear men. You of course would not just put a tide caster 12 inch away from them without back up.
-Guardsman- wrote: Models look good, but I really wish GW recovered the long-lost STC for the making of poseable models.
From what I remember reading, the models were all designed so that the robes/cloaks etc all appear to be fluttering in the same direction to give the models the impression that they are stood with a breeze blowing against them when you deploy them or stick them in a display case. This may have limited the ammount of posing that you get to use in your unit selection.
Honestly when I look back on a lot of multi-pose models most only have a handful of actual valid poses you can pick anyway. Varied weapon/upgrade/bling options yes please, but often as not at the scale, complexity and skill of building for a GW model, the variable poses are very limited. Esp once you leave off big ball and socket joints that really don't work with every faction (in fact they work best on something like tyranids where they appear "normal" but once you start putting them on troops they can throw up all kinds of problems for humans/elves etc..).
So overall I don't mind the mono-pose because the poses are way better than varied pose models could give us and we'd likely as not have that many poses anyway in a practical world.
The key isn't the posability but the character of the model. Eg the Warcry Warbands tend to have more individuality to each model, whilst the average troop unit for AoS might still be monopose, but the character is less "individual" in style.
On the lineup of the Light Elves I must say that they have a too limited miniature range. There is not even a single generic melee character available. It is clear that GW wants to expand on the range, since they tease the other elementar factions. But the book is brand new and do they really want to make it obsolet in no time?
It's a problem that other new model lines in AoS have. Idoneth Deepkin lack a generic melee hero, Ossiarch bonereapers lack a generic melee hero. Generic in the sense of unmounted, no gimmicky ability (Like the Isharan Soulrender for IDK). The new lines are fantastic looking and for the most part quite strong... but lacking in fleshed out options.
I was taking a look at the Vanari Dawnriders. Their Deathly Furrows ability has no limitation on which melee weapon it effects, as far as I can see. It takes the unit from...
Two champion sword attacks, 5 Lance attacks, and 10 Horse attacks.
Against 2 wound, unmounted units it goes to...
Three sword attacks, 10 lance attacks and 15 horse attacks.
Against single wound, unmounted models, you get
4 sword attacks, 15 lance attacks and 20 hoof attacks.
That's a whole truckload of attacks. The champions sword is 3+/4+/-1/1D. Horse attacks are 4+/+4+/-/1D. Lances are 3+/4+/-/1D but go up to a 3+ to wound and -1 rend on the charge. As well, 6s to hit(5s if they get their spell off) turn in to mortal wounds on the lance? For 130pts, these gents seem pretty damn solid, and this is all without support tools included.
Toss the doubled movement spell on them for a sweet 28" movement? Tasty.
Ehhh...the Soulrenders might be 'gimmicky', but so are most heroes in general. The generic Akhelian King is definitely about as 'generic' as they come, same with the Ossiarch Bonereapers' Lieve-Kavalos.
I suppose, but I guess what I'm looking for is a lower point value, unmounted melee dude with a buff ability or something. They've already got Ahkelian Princes so... Ahkelian Duke? Baron? Same for Ossiarchs. A 100-150pt cost hero on foot that delivers the slaps for a low cost.
We don't have "Akhelian" Princes.
Akhelian Kings are the generic hero choice on Deepmare.
Lochian Princes are the unit champions for the Akhelian Guard(Morrsarr/Ishlaen units). We don't know why they're called "Lochian" as far as I'm aware, so we still could get something called an Akhelian Prince as well...although it's possible we might see the 'Akhelian Emissary' from the Soulbound RPG make the jump instead. It's a middling rank (apparently sometimes used as a punishment for the more warlike) Akhelians to interface with their allies. They commonly wear a 'cloak of tides'(or something to that effect--the insinuation seemed to be that it's what the Eidolon has?) and/or ride on an Allopex or eel.
With that out of the way, we aren't getting Akhelians on foot per GW's current setups. Akhelians are the Knights of the Idoneth...and they start off their careers as crew on Leviadons or Allopexes!
Isharaan are the Wizard/Priest castes.
I could see, potentially, something coming of the 'Embailors' for what you want. They're the beast tamers and have specially trained and equipped Namarti 'huntsmen' that come with them.
I was going to say, IDK has generic melee heroes lol. Just 1 is costly and the other is way to weak. The King is solid tho and when i was playing them in comp i would even take 2 at times.
A lot just doesn't have a solid mid tier hero 120-180 point range like chaos does.
I'm not exactly worried about the size of the AOS armies right now. This second edition is just setting the base for the various faction of the universe. The third one wll see them grow. I'll actually be worried if and when the faction get to a point where their lineup gets bloated with units. That's when game system and development breaks down and you end up with the most terrible balance issues, models falling the wayside in terms of age and entire faction reboots and, often, terrible storyline to explain them.
AoS has never really had generic heroes; everyone has always had some sort of gimmick or ability. The most generic would be when that ability was too weak or too niche to be notable.
NinthMusketeer wrote: FWIW, if I was judging and someone wanted to use white lions counts-as for hammer bois I'd be fine with it.
Both thank you and curse you in equal measure .
I've decided to try a novel new approach to these Elves. For the first time in 25 years of this hobby I will buy and complete one kit at a time! What madness!
First up is my Teclis. It involves his original model, a Dragon and Aetherquartz.
Are we fairly certain he's on the dinner platter base that Archaon is on?
NinthMusketeer wrote: I think that is going to last about as long as a new year's resolution!
I definitely wouldn't put any money on the line I think I'll have a decent shot this time as I'm far more of a collector/painter of GW stuff than a gamer at this point.
I'll at least succeed until they break them up into kits.
I tried the same thing for Idoneth Deepkin and failed miserably. Because just 3 days ago I ordered the Lumineth box. I did not even want to buy it in the first place but it was available on waylandgames for about 100 Euro. XD
stratigo wrote: I must admit, I am a bit tilted by the lumineth getting a what looks to be a better version of aethergold than my KO
The Lumineth seem to be crazily good. They just have the new Army Book syndrome, so I would not give to much on this. Like I said they can pretty reliably put 11 MW on 30 inch on an invisible character.
I wanted to order two sets, because I've got no idea when the boxes alone are going to come out. But all the extra gubbins probably made it not worth, just went for one.
As solid as the army looks, I don't know if it'll stand up to the really nasty armies in the game. We'll have to wait and see, but I predict a toss-up against things like FEC and Skaven, beating Slaanesh, and losing hard to Tzeentch and maybe Seraphon.
Just a feeling that they'll be among or below the top tier, but struggling against some things. I don't have enough experience against KO to mention them, but they look like they're doing alright in tournaments.
stratigo wrote: I must admit, I am a bit tilted by the lumineth getting a what looks to be a better version of aethergold than my KO
I'm not sure, aether gold shares are pretty flexible in their use. Have to see the full rule listing for aetherquartz first. KO also have extremely easy access to battleshock-immunity bubbles, something that we do not know if Lumineth will have.
Well Wayland did get enough stock or I got lucky(was bit worried with limited edition box whether wayland would get enough. Some boxes 3rd parties haven't been able to fulfil all before) so Lumineth will be my 2nd AOS army. Started GW games with high elves so this has strong, very strong, nostalgic feel to me. Too bad it's Teclins and not Tyrion side but maybe later.
Will be doing this on slow growth. No rush to paint and buy more. I already have more than 2k for AOS so I can play just fine. Let's paint these properly.
The "militia" sorts, the Wardens, Sentinels and Dawnriders are meant to be the Tyrion-inspired side of the Line, right? I imagine... and hope, for major additions to the army to flesh things out more.
Thadin wrote: The "militia" sorts, the Wardens, Sentinels and Dawnriders are meant to be the Tyrion-inspired side of the Line, right? I imagine... and hope, for major additions to the army to flesh things out more.
Barring Stormcast most AoS armies want one of two things
1) Replacement of old sculpts with modern plastics
2) Expansion of army to at least double its current roster size in kits.
A lot of the "new" armies are very small and could easily take doubling of their roster count to add variety and diversity within the force.
Oh for sure, a lot of armies could do with a much bigger roster. I wonder when GW will stop making new armies, and instead go back to the ones they already have. I like the new armies though, don't get me wrong.
Well before Corona DoK were getting a new Warcry warband. Which considering that I think Warcry will stick around long term (its a great way to sell terrain packs that traditionally GW had a hard time selling) would suggest to me that every major army will get at least one warcry warband set. Giving every army a "one box warcry warband" option to go alongside the regular troops for the game.
Thadin wrote: Oh for sure, a lot of armies could do with a much bigger roster. I wonder when GW will stop making new armies, and instead go back to the ones they already have. I like the new armies though, don't get me wrong.
I think they are currently going for the holes in the lore and putting in armies for those factions. Lumineth, for example, sits rather nicely into that plan. After Lumineth and Behemat I expect we'll see Malerion and his aelves as well as Kurnoth later down the road.
Next year we are very likely going to get AoS 3.0 which means that the cycle begins anew and factions will be revisited. Maybe we will see some expansion of existing armies.
I also get the feeling from the rumor engines that we might be seeing a new AoS Warhammer Quest and that might give them an opportunity to add some heroes to many rosters.
Overread wrote: Well before Corona DoK were getting a new Warcry warband. Which considering that I think Warcry will stick around long term (its a great way to sell terrain packs that traditionally GW had a hard time selling) would suggest to me that every major army will get at least one warcry warband set. Giving every army a "one box warcry warband" option to go alongside the regular troops for the game.
The term used, if I remember correctly, when discussing them was "Daughters of Khaine adjacent". The bigger thing was that these were not necessarily faction but Realm specific. Khaininite Shadowstalkers were from Ulgu and their wargear and abilities would reflect that.
The Daughters of Khaine are Realm specific to start with. Their core faction settlements are based in the Realm of Shadow.
This is fairly common, most factions have a central home that they come from. Death factions all come from the Death Realm; most of the Destruction factions have their core powerbase in Ghur; meanwhile Daughters of Khaine and Malarion's aelves come from Shadow. The Dispossessed technically come from the realm of Metal before they were basically kicked out and are now roaming in the Cities of Sigmar which are in most realms.
The Sylvaneth are from the Realm of Life etc..
Again these don't limit those factions to those regions, they are simply their core powerbase that also influences the visual styles that GW uses for the army.
I like the big cows, but not much a fan of the elfs with cow helmets. Particularly, just the helmets suck. I like the rest of the model. Going to see if these spare heads I have around will look good on them instead of the helmet they've got already.
I got shipping confirmation today from GW, ordered directly through them. Estimated delivery date of Tuesday. Here's hoping. I've got my 'stand in' Sisters of Averlorn just about painted up to act as some Sentinels, and all my bases pre-made for when the other models arrive. Except for Eltharion, need to figure out what I'm doing with him, once I've got the model in hand. The SoA scale may look a bit off compared to the actual Sentinels once I get them, but I really like the models and they were great to test out a paint scheme.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Eh... armies aren't as realm-specific as you are implying there.
The core settlements of most of the factions are. This doesn't mean that any race can't appear on any realm - in general every faction appears in some form in every realm. It just means that they have a core that defines them which is the general angle that GW uses for a unified design aesthetic.
So its true that the "home" of the Daughters of Khaine is the Shadow Realm. Their capitol, most of their greater core temples and settlements and their overall visual designs all herald from that region. Of course at the same time they also have temples and shrines and fight clubs in many of the most major settlements around the realms. So you can have a local temple that comes from Ghur and convert them to highlight that aspect if you want.
The realm that hosts their 'core' defines different factions to a very different degree. Lumineth are based in Hysh, and that is an overwhelming presence in every aspect of the army. It is not at all equivalent to how DoK are based in Ulgu; the tie to the realm is completely different in scope and implementation. Some armies have very direct ties to certain realms that will dominate their theme no matter where they go, others like the DoK just happen to live mainly in one of them.
NinthMusketeer wrote: The realm that hosts their 'core' defines different factions to a very different degree. Lumineth are based in Hysh, and that is an overwhelming presence in every aspect of the army. It is not at all equivalent to how DoK are based in Ulgu; the tie to the realm is completely different in scope and implementation. Some armies have very direct ties to certain realms that will dominate their theme no matter where they go, others like the DoK just happen to live mainly in one of them.
Could you expand on what you mean by "an overwhelming presence in every aspect of the army"? The DoK book references Ulgu very frequently, their spell lore and many of their artifacts are explicitly shadow-magic, they have shadow magic units (doomfire warlocks), and even a couple "shadow" battalions. Are you referring more to the lore about LRL being closely linked to the various spirits of their realm?
Astmeister wrote: Do you guys like the alarith models? I personally hate them.
Eh.
I don't hate them, but I'm also not impressed by them either. Maybe if I saw one of the models in person? For now they'll remain off my shopping list.
The models I'm more concerned with are the hammer elves. Specifically wether or not that stupid looking cow piece can be left off their helmets (or is easy to convert away). If yes, then I have another unit option. If no? Then I guess I buy more archers.
NinthMusketeer wrote: The realm that hosts their 'core' defines different factions to a very different degree. Lumineth are based in Hysh, and that is an overwhelming presence in every aspect of the army. It is not at all equivalent to how DoK are based in Ulgu; the tie to the realm is completely different in scope and implementation. Some armies have very direct ties to certain realms that will dominate their theme no matter where they go, others like the DoK just happen to live mainly in one of them.
Could you expand on what you mean by "an overwhelming presence in every aspect of the army"? The DoK book references Ulgu very frequently, their spell lore and many of their artifacts are explicitly shadow-magic, they have shadow magic units (doomfire warlocks), and even a couple "shadow" battalions. Are you referring more to the lore about LRL being closely linked to the various spirits of their realm?
On re-reading I can see how I did not explain my point very well...
Consider Lumineth; every unit has an ability that ties directly to Hysh, some of their units as aspects of Hysh itself. An Alarith army from any realm will still include elements that are inherently Hyshian. Compare to DoK; their prayers are religious blood-ritual, their combat abilities based on properties of the individuals themselves (like flying or petrifying stare), only one of their units is inherently tied to Ulgu. If it was not stated in the lore and that unit did not exist, that they have a preference for Ulgu we would have no way of knowing beyond guesswork, whereas even a non-Warhammer player could identify Sylvaneth as coming from the realm of life by just looking at the miniatures. But then compare DoK to Cities of Sigmar; by the miniatures DoK could be reasonably narrowed down to being from Ulgu, Shyish, or Chamon; a theme in aesthetic lends itself to certain realms more than others and it has one unit specifically Ulgu in theme. Cities of Sigmar has multiple units with abilities & theme directly tying them to different realms and even a unit which picks off a list for an ability from any of them. Or put simply; many armies 'lean' towards a certain realm, but the amount of lean differs.
Agreed, however I suspect part of that is simply the design ethos taken - I'd wager we will see more shadow based units coming out as time develops. The new warcry warband is likely just the first, I've long hoped that DoK would get things like shadow-beasts (endless spells or units) and other elements that helps to reinforce their shadowy nature. I'm surprised that they didn't pinch the assassin model or get their own styled after their own designs.
Thadin wrote: Oh for sure, a lot of armies could do with a much bigger roster. I wonder when GW will stop making new armies, and instead go back to the ones they already have. I like the new armies though, don't get me wrong.
Well there's rumour picture that has weapon with bonereaper symbols. So they are getting something
Just had a thought. Prismatic Palisade, seems pretty worth it for Lumineth to me. Your own main ranged unit can ignore it's LOS blocking, good positioning can also have it's negative hit modifier nicely stack with the Shining Company rule.
Also of course there's all the lore things, the Palisade magic originating from Hysh, ect.
Most cavalry units would carry a sword, just like most swordsmen would carry a dagger and the dagger might actually do more killing than the sword.
AoS wouldn't work with weapons breaking and such, its too fine detail for a larger battle system. Ideal for an RPG or skirmish game where you might only have 5 or so models per side so you can track more detail per model.
Honestly, I'm wondering if there were some rules that were left on the writing room floor. I wouldn't have been shocked if the lances were intended to be for 'on the turn they charged'.
They likely did have something such as that planned. But then opted for an easier way about it; buff the warden pike on the turn that an enemy charged.
Overread wrote: Don't forget GW doesn't make rules then models - its generally models then rules (far as we can ever tell).
And that sometimes they just kinda wing it...
Wild Riders and their shields, for example, immediately spring to mind. It's a build option in the kit and the rules that they had to FAQ in are just...bleh.
Because if a Nurgling is crawling on your face a spear doesn't help much, but use of a sword in that situation can reasonably be rolled under the dam profile.
Seriously though please don't we really don't need more 'same but different' weapon crap like Liberators!
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I don't know about anything else, but i do know that this guy is my new favourite character
That is amazing.
It's really nice seeing AoS get some good lore at the individual level.
Those timelines often have at least one funny or extremely interesting piece of lore. The Skaven battletome, for example, has an entire clan create a portal out of known reality and vanish into it. The sort of thing where they could pop up again as a new sub-faction out of nowhere, or even in 40k for all we know.
Skryre Skaven already feel like a 40k army, so I'd welcome a new army to play in 40k
One thing I'm struggling with for list building... Who do we give our relics/command traits to? A fair few of the great nation relics are best suited to the models who want to be in the enemies face, but we don't have any beatsticks to give them to. (I'm hoping that Hero builder is good enough to fill this gap...)
So, if running great nations, what is it? Suffer with giving relics/CA's that are bad/unoptimcal to our generic characters, until more are released?
I think I'd almost prefer removing limited relics/command traits from subfactions. Maybe instead having the subfaction ones be an extra set of options, instead of a limit. It'd mess up balance a great deal without other significant changes, however... And would require GW to think deeper about potential rule combos, more than the little that they do to begin with.
I feel like Lumineth is the worst off when it comes to the limits. It'd be solved with one basic beatstick hero, so there's hope for it with future army releases. The army will be fine without them until then, I just like having ways to customize my heroes in more meaningful ways.
NinthMusketeer wrote: That is what sub-factions are supposed to be; putting up with sub par artifacts/command traits in exchange for a small thematic army bonus.
So naturally they are auto-take because they are an unapologetic upgrade to the army and the only decision involved is which one to pick.
I disagree with this. I think the point of the subfactions was to help provide different playstyles, since many AoS armies are limited in model count. This provides a bit of a work around by helping certain units get bonus' and unique abilities/artifacts to help get around the artificial cap.
The problem is GW seems to a very poor job when it comes to balancing these subfactions against each other.
Yes, GW has said on their AoS Shorts, Sub factions is meant to be flavorful ways to play the armies, and give each army at least 3 distinct types of play, expand on their stories a bit too, etc..
NinthMusketeer wrote: That is what sub-factions are supposed to be; putting up with sub par artifacts/command traits in exchange for a small thematic army bonus.
So naturally they are auto-take because they are an unapologetic upgrade to the army and the only decision involved is which one to pick.
I disagree with this. I think the point of the subfactions was to help provide different playstyles, since many AoS armies are limited in model count. This provides a bit of a work around by helping certain units get bonus' and unique abilities/artifacts to help get around the artificial cap.
The problem is GW seems to a very poor job when it comes to balancing these subfactions against each other.
Hm, I can definitely see how that is a reasonable explanation but I also feel sub-factions were never meant to redefine what the army was. At most they allow heavy specialization into one aspect. There are only a handful across all 'tomes that actually change the army playstyle.
Inquisitor Gideon wrote: I don't know about anything else, but i do know that this guy is my new favourite character
yea, this is by far my favorite piece of fluff, with the Wind and water excerpts right behind it. I like to imagine the relic has been made so he is conscious of everything that the laser passed through, able to visualize every detail of the trip the laser took across the realm. I can only imagine him taking this trip, jumping back in his body when it's done, and then just walking back to class with a thousand yard stare.
I think I want more of this bastard. Also, anyone else started making their own apotheosis character yet for the lumineth?
