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Those translated points costs don't seem to add up. They said the box set was about 1000 points

cmspano wrote:
Those translated points costs don't seem to add up. They said the box set was about 1000 points

No they didn’t. They said it was ”the makings of” a 1000 points list. That is, the basics you need to start. Which it is since it provides a hero and two battleline choices.

You're right, the wording is a little misleading

Wanted these guys since they were previewed... so I bit the bullet and just pre-ordered. Excited!

I ultimately held off. I'm too hyped for the new Gargants to start another army so soon(hopefully) before they release.

I'll definitely get the standard battletome when it drops though, because of the lore and I'm a completionist.

 nels1031 wrote:
I ultimately held off. I'm too hyped for the new Gargants to start another army so soon(hopefully) before they release.

I'll definitely get the standard battletome when it drops though, because of the lore and I'm a completionist.

Yeah, I'm in a similar boat. I've just got so many mixed feelings about the line I think that I ultimately may not have been happy with it.

Now, when we get to some Dark Elves, we may be talking!

 Sasori wrote:
I've just got so many mixed feelings about the line I think that I ultimately may not have been happy with it.

Light of Eltharion was the only thing that really "wowed" me. Elves never really do much for me.

I preordered the box, but this army is going to be a very slow grow for me.

Love elves of all kinds, but I have mixed feelings about some of the aesthetics. Biggest offenders are the cow-helmed hammer elves. Might end up doing a head swap on them.

 nels1031 wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
I've just got so many mixed feelings about the line I think that I ultimately may not have been happy with it.

Light of Eltharion was the only thing that really "wowed" me. Elves never really do much for me.

Light of Eltharion is one that I want to go crazy with. I'm thinking about trying out some of that conductive paint to do an internal glow to him.

 Eldarsif wrote:
I preordered the box, but this army is going to be a very slow grow for me.

Love elves of all kinds, but I have mixed feelings about some of the aesthetics. Biggest offenders are the cow-helmed hammer elves. Might end up doing a head swap on them.

Agree. I love the look of the units/models in this box, & the Tome, dice and tokens will all be useful - so I ordered it through my local shop. The rest of the line? We'll just have to see.
Maybe I add some of them over time, maybe I don't & simply expand with more cav/spears....

I'm teetering now. I love all the core units and Eltharion is amazing.

However the hammer Elves and Teclis not so much. I do really like the Mountain Spirit though

So I sit here with a very interesting Teclis conversion in my mind and plenty of White Lions who are Elves with great weapons...

FWIW, if I was judging and someone wanted to use white lions counts-as for hammer bois I'd be fine with it.

The archers seem really broken. With 5+ to MW and the spell to reroll hits they will do 11 MW per volley. Also they can do this in 30 inch and no need for LOS.
That is not funny.

While I agree that it seems nasty for sure, when I checked on the math, the only numbers that got 11 MW was if it was a 30-man unit. According to leaks posted earlier, the Sentinels can only be taken in units of 20 at most.

That'll "only" net you 7 mortal wounds, at 30" range ignoring LOS. On the other hand, they'll only do like, two normal wounds to a unit with a 5+ save, all of this for 280pts. Seems decent enough.

The Wardens, if they're powered up and attacking something that charged them and have 20 models in the unit, will dish out 15-ish mortal wounds and get 9 regular damage through on a 5+ save enemy. Plus, another d3 mortals from their Champion. And getting 20 models to attack a target with a 3" reach won't be that hard.

I thought it was better/worse before, but I'd misread some abilities and glossed over the attack increasing CA being limited to Alarith.

 Thadin wrote:
While I agree that it seems nasty for sure, when I checked on the math, the only numbers that got 11 MW was if it was a 30-man unit. According to leaks posted earlier, the Sentinels can only be taken in units of 20 at most.

That'll "only" net you 7 mortal wounds, at 30" range ignoring LOS.

Since he mentioned the re-roll spell I’m guessing that was also counted. A full unit has 19 shots, that is 6.33 MWs, you then re-roll the 12.67 dice that ”missed”, getting another 4.22 MWs, for a total of 10.55 MWs from a full unit of 20 archers.

Ah, I didn't count the 18" range spell, since that's also a factor to this. If you have a wizard within 18" range, you'll probably have the unit of archers in 18" that will also change the math.

Edit: I ran it with full rerolls at the 30" profile... Still only getting 8.333 mortal wounds. Lost as to what math is being used

 Thadin wrote:
Ah, I didn't count the 18" range spell, since that's also a factor to this. If you have a wizard within 18" range, you'll probably have the unit of archers in 18" that will also change the math.

Edit: I ran it with full rerolls at the 30" profile... Still only getting 8.333 mortal wounds. Lost as to what math is being used

...I just showed the math in my previous post. You do MWs on 5+ (so a third of the shots) and re-roll all the 1-4s for a second chance at MWs.

So, sort of scuffed math by rerolling the 4s that hit, hoping for more MWs. If that's even possible, the wording could be off. Saying you rerolled "missed" hits didn't really tell me that you were counting actual hits in there as well.

That’s why I put missed in quotation marks
Going by the german translation you can re-roll even attacks that hit, so you can fish for more MWs.

I'll take your word/the leaks word for it then, I don't speak german

Modern wording for re-rolls would permit even 'hits' of 4 to be re-rolled, and we have no reason to suspect the wording has changed. Regardless, it isn't the raw number of MWs it's the 30" ignore-LoS part.

Forgive the lack of knowledge, jumping into AoS with these guys as a slow grow project.

A question about paint schemes... I believe the AoS scene tends to have more strict guidelines in place for armies and their appearances, but what is the consensus on custom schemes and running them as a sub-faction? Is it the same approach as 40k? Paint them how you want as a "successor" and the run them with the rules you prefer, according to your own narrative?

Thanks.

Kdash wrote:
Forgive the lack of knowledge, jumping into AoS with these guys as a slow grow project.

A question about paint schemes... I believe the AoS scene tends to have more strict guidelines in place for armies and their appearances, but what is the consensus on custom schemes and running them as a sub-faction? Is it the same approach as 40k? Paint them how you want as a "successor" and the run them with the rules you prefer, according to your own narrative?

Thanks.

I think there have been some tournaments in the past that were more strict on paint guidelines, but honestly its rare. In AoS you only take one core army from a Battletome and you can't mix and match subfactions from the same Tome in a single army. Furthermore most of the subfactions in terms of new rules only get perhaps a few lines of difference, a few unique items and some restrict which models can and cannot take. Broadly speaking there just is not enough there to make it sensible to stick to one subfaction group. Heck the Daughters of Khaine official schemes are basically identical - subtle shade differences of red on pretty much the same areas of armour - I'd wager no one could tell them apart from each other.

So I'd say paint however you want and pick whatever sub-group you want. You'll never confuse your opponent as the VAST majority don't memorise paint schemes anyway. Once you leave Space Marines (who have unique models, upgrade packs and whole codex of their own for sub-groups) most people, even within their armies they collect, cannot tell "official schemes" apart from each other.

Kdash wrote:
Forgive the lack of knowledge, jumping into AoS with these guys as a slow grow project.

A question about paint schemes... I believe the AoS scene tends to have more strict guidelines in place for armies and their appearances, but what is the consensus on custom schemes and running them as a sub-faction? Is it the same approach as 40k? Paint them how you want as a "successor" and the run them with the rules you prefer, according to your own narrative?

Thanks.

There is no such restriction within the rules of the game. Maybe at various tourneys, maybe within various playgroups, but not in the rules of the game.

So find out the rules that apply to the environment you'll actually be playing in. If you intend on going to tournament xyz? Read their rules. If you're looking to play at a certain store/club? Find out their specific house rules/expectations.

 Overread wrote:

Kdash wrote:
Forgive the lack of knowledge, jumping into AoS with these guys as a slow grow project.

A question about paint schemes... I believe the AoS scene tends to have more strict guidelines in place for armies and their appearances, but what is the consensus on custom schemes and running them as a sub-faction? Is it the same approach as 40k? Paint them how you want as a "successor" and the run them with the rules you prefer, according to your own narrative?

Thanks.

I think there have been some tournaments in the past that were more strict on paint guidelines, but honestly its rare. In AoS you only take one core army from a Battletome and you can't mix and match subfactions from the same Tome in a single army. Furthermore most of the subfactions in terms of new rules only get perhaps a few lines of difference, a few unique items and some restrict which models can and cannot take. Broadly speaking there just is not enough there to make it sensible to stick to one subfaction group. Heck the Daughters of Khaine official schemes are basically identical - subtle shade differences of red on pretty much the same areas of armour - I'd wager no one could tell them apart from each other.

So I'd say paint however you want and pick whatever sub-group you want. You'll never confuse your opponent as the VAST majority don't memorise paint schemes anyway. Once you leave Space Marines (who have unique models, upgrade packs and whole codex of their own for sub-groups) most people, even within their armies they collect, cannot tell "official schemes" apart from each other.

ccs wrote:


There is no such restriction within the rules of the game. Maybe at various tourneys, maybe within various playgroups, but not in the rules of the game.

So find out the rules that apply to the environment you'll actually be playing in. If you intend on going to tournament xyz? Read their rules. If you're looking to play at a certain store/club? Find out their specific house rules/expectations.

Thanks both!

The german leaks actually say reroll any rolls. So you could RAW reroll hits of 4+.
Also note that Teclis can cast the "reroll spell" without even the possibility of dispelling it. So this can be a clear 11 MW on basically anything even on a character hiding out of LOS (or two characters each 5 MW).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another note on weaknesses of the new elves. Sniper spells such as the deepkin "drowning" spell will be very good against the lumineth. You can snipe the champion of the units and thus shut down their magic and dispel, because they need a champion to be wizards.

I'd also considered model-removing abilities being a weakness, but felt that the spells are typically just too short of range to matter in your average game. The IDK spell, Pressure of the Deeps is Range 12.

Skaven have some ways, like Splinter Spell on a Grey Seer/ Lore of Ruin wizard, but thats 6" range as well. Skryre Relic, The Brass Orb is 6" range, and only works on a 6+ rolled.

Nagash has Hand of Dust, 3" range...

Those are the model-snipe abilities I can think of off the top of my head. I don't see any of them being readily usable and worth taking over other, more generically better spells or relics. Are there any big ones I'm missing?

Models look good, but I really wish GW recovered the long-lost STC for the making of poseable models.

If you want different poses, these kinds of builds aren't awful for conversions.

I'd rather get quicker builds and a 'flow' to the model that isn't just "glue things where you want, we don't care".

 Thadin wrote:
I'd also considered model-removing abilities being a weakness, but felt that the spells are typically just too short of range to matter in your average game. The IDK spell, Pressure of the Deeps is Range 12.

Skaven have some ways, like Splinter Spell on a Grey Seer/ Lore of Ruin wizard, but thats 6" range as well. Skryre Relic, The Brass Orb is 6" range, and only works on a 6+ rolled.

Nagash has Hand of Dust, 3" range...

Those are the model-snipe abilities I can think of off the top of my head. I don't see any of them being readily usable and worth taking over other, more generically better spells or relics. Are there any big ones I'm missing?

I think pressure of the deeps is pretty good for this already. The spear elves are also wizards and will be up close at some point hopefully. The Eidolon of Mathlann can get really close too. And in Idoneth armies you can even avoid being shot of the board by the super archers, since you have forgotten nightmares.
But the archers are really a problem in my oppinion (like totally broken).