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**Tagony**

How well size wise will the old fantasy heads match up you think? I have some old kits that if the size goes ok would be great for the new hammer elves.

**Carlovonsexron**

Super happy these are coming out, but I hope the individual kits follow behind soon- I really just want the infantry

**ccs**

Crap. I don't have any reason not to order this box. I like every model in there, will of course need the Battle Tome, & would have bought a set of cards/tokens/dice anyways ....

**Amishprn86**

Yeah if you are playing this army, its a must have box. But if you want to pick up the models and play now and then, just wait for the SC ing box.

**Thadin**

Unfortunately not the sort of box you want twice, what with all the extra gubbins and Named Character unless you're looking to sell them. I'll need to wait a bit for the full release of the army after getting this box

**Kanluwen**

That's fine. Having boxes like this be "a way to start an army!" rather than "Build an army JUST from this set!" makes it a bit more appealing to me.

**tneva82**

Amishprn86 wrote:
Yeah if you are playing this army, its a must have box. But if you want to pick up the models and play now and then, just wait for the SC ing box.

Not really. If you don't care for special dices(I loath those. I only use sister one and that's because they are so ungodly awful that you don't accidentally pick them up and roll so good for miracle dices...so they are good because they are so bad...) and cards(never needed cards with my FOC) then you likely will book and models cheaper separately later. That or the models are way more than what I'm willing to pay.

With luck the separate book will have better cover as well!

So yeah. I'm waiting for solo releases(whenever they come. Odds are decent week later. If not august earliest is likely). And those cow helmets will be fixed. Hopefully horns are separate. If not clippers are invented.

**NinthMusketeer**

Even if all you want is the models, buying this then selling off the excess will be a better deal than the eventual SC box (that is unlikely to hit before Christmas or 2021).

**Eldarsif**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
Even if all you want is the models, buying this then selling off the excess will be a better deal than the eventual SC box (that is unlikely to hit before Christmas or 2021).

Plus there is no guarantee this will be the eventual SC box.

I just remember how long I had to wait until Daughters of Khaine got their SC box. I technically had all the models I needed when it finally came out

**Thadin**

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/16/lumineth-realm-lords-how-do-they-play/

Preview of rules up. I'm confused on one thing so far, why Lightning Reactions was listed under an Aetherquartz (once per game, per unit) ability, when it effects two units at once.

**Ghaz**

Thadin wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/16/lumineth-realm-lords-how-do-they-play/

Preview of rules up. I'm confused on one thing so far, why Lightning Reactions was listed under an Aetherquartz (once per game, per unit) ability, when it effects two units at once.

My reading is that 'Aetherquartz Reserve', 'Heightened Senses' and 'Lightning Reactions' are their Allegiance Abilities.

Lumineth Realm-lords’ allegiance abilities are designed to reflect both the tactics used by their entire race as well as the specific skills and talents of various subsets of their society. The first key rule for your Lumineth army is aetherquartz reserve.

**Thadin**

Ghaz wrote:
Thadin wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/16/lumineth-realm-lords-how-do-they-play/

Preview of rules up. I'm confused on one thing so far, why Lightning Reactions was listed under an Aetherquartz (once per game, per unit) ability, when it effects two units at once.

My reading is that 'Aetherquartz Reserve', 'Heightened Senses' and 'Lightning Reactions' are their Allegiance Abilities.

Lumineth Realm-lords’ allegiance abilities are designed to reflect both the tactics used by their entire race as well as the specific skills and talents of various subsets of their society. The first key rule for your Lumineth army is aetherquartz reserve.

I disagree. I hope your interpretation is correct, but I don't think it will be. Heightened Senses was mentioned in the same breath as aetherquartz. Then the wording they put on Lightning Reactions made me question it more as well.

Aetherquartz reserve lets you trigger once-per-unit, once-per-phase abilities with powerful effects. Heightened Senses, for instance, is great for ensuring a key combat goes in your favour!

Finished reading... Tectonic force is a weird ability. Can't say I like it much, I can see it really backfiring on to you. Not sure how to feel about the Subfactions shown.

Wardens (Spearmen) seem really good already. I think they had 2 attacks on their 3" reach spears with rend, and now 6s to hit just dump a mortal wound on the enemy and end the attack sequence. And, every spearman unit can attempt to cast a CV6 spell to boost it up to 5+ to hit. Every unit in the army is a wizard.

And one thing I noticed, the Shining Company ability didn't say Vanari Warden, it just said Vanari. It'll work on the archers as well, as far as I can tell.

Another Edit: I had another read over on it. I think that Heightened Senses is part of Aetherquartz, but Lightning Reactions isn't.

**Ghaz**

How They Play
The Lumineth Realm-lords are a versatile army with a number of rewarding play styles available. We can’t wait to see what combos and lists you come up with!

Broadly, the army is a killer defensive force that excels in tackling enemy charges head on, punishing them with deadly firepower from surprisingly durable core units. This is an army for tacticians and strategists, rewarding you for fighting in formation while disrupting enemies with withering shooting, infantry-shredding cavalry and devastating magic. But how does it all work? First up, your allegiance abilities!

Lumineth Realm-lords’ allegiance abilities are designed to reflect both the tactics used by their entire race as well as the specific skills and talents of various subsets of their society. The first key rule for your Lumineth army is aetherquartz reserve.

Seems clear to me that section of the article is dealing with allegiance abilities.

**Thadin**

Reading a few times over yeah, you're probably correct about Lightning Reactions. Heightened Senses however, is likely an Aetherquartz thing.

**NinthMusketeer**

Cut/pasting myself from News & Rumors:

First off; the last rule is bleh. More mortal wound spam we did not need, and more of GWs inability to transition to a system of 6s to hit = automatic wound, 6s to wound = MW, instead of 6s to hit = skip the whole process.

With that out of the way, I am very impressed with what I am seeing, The shining company rule, in particular, I think is fantastic and very well designed. It provides a powerful bonus but also comes with real downsides and leaves the activation of the effect in player's hands. Having every model needing to be b2b with at least two others, coupled with the bonus being lost permanently should that be broken, effectively eliminates any gamey tactics that would normally accompany such a rule. And it encourages fluffy behavior on the tabletop which I always love to see. While there may be some exploit I am not recognizing, as of now I really like this rule and ditto for the Alarith pushback ability. Good job GW, you were not exaggerating when you said this is a very tactical army.

Picking two units at a time is a nice successor to ASF, without being as broken as simply giving the army ASF would be. I like it as a compromise. We've seen this rule before though, so not as exciting.

Aetherquartz cannot be be wholly assessed until we have everything. Right now it looks pretty powerful, given that battleshock is a commonly-ignored mechanic. But if they lack easy access to immunity the penalty could be notable.

**Thadin**

I disagree with your assement on the Alarith ability... I really don't like it. I don't want to give my opponent a free 2" reposition. I'm sure you could think of times where an enemy having one or two more bodies on an objective could have lost you the game. It's 2" in any direction, so long as it ends 1" away from an Alarith model.

About the reduced leadership after using Aetherquartz; GW mentioned earlier that one of their wizards/heros manipulated Battleshock. Vaguely recall something about making an enemy take battleshock instead of you... But, we'll need to wait on specifics. Don't hold your breath on battleshock mattering for Lumineth.

Quick mock-up of how Shining Company can work. You'll maintain the bonus on any Vanari unit, so long as you keep in this formation, and have at least 3 models remaining in the unit. However, the negatives balance it out IMO. Especially the no-charge part.

**tneva82**

Thadin wrote:
I disagree with your assement on the Alarith ability... I really don't like it. I don't want to give my opponent a free 2" reposition. I'm sure you could think of times where an enemy having one or two more bodies on an objective could have lost you the game. It's 2" in any direction, so long as it ends 1" away from an Alarith model.

So don't give them. You don't have to if you don't think you benefit from it.

**NinthMusketeer**

tneva82 wrote:
Thadin wrote:
I disagree with your assement on the Alarith ability... I really don't like it. I don't want to give my opponent a free 2" reposition. I'm sure you could think of times where an enemy having one or two more bodies on an objective could have lost you the game. It's 2" in any direction, so long as it ends 1" away from an Alarith model.

So don't give them. You don't have to if you don't think you benefit from it.

Indeed. If it was automatic my opinion would be very different. But it is a choice, allowing the Lumineth player to only use it when it will be advantageous. It will also require/encourage clever positioning, which I think plays well into the overall tactical theme.

**Tabletop_Magpie**

Hello everyone.

So the play style for these seems like it could a bit tactical, but would you say it’s pretty forgiving/reasonable for new players?

I like the idea of a tough, low model count army and I really like the look of pretty all of these units.

Initially I’ll probably just buy them to paint, but as it looks like you could easily end up with 2k in a just a few purchases! BIG AOS scene near me too.

Cheers!

**Thadin**

We don't know yet how they're going to play, beyond what GW has said. What's actually effective vs what GW thinks is effective can be wildly different things. We only have a handful of mechanics and things mentioned by GW to go off of. No actual unit stat lines yet.

**Tabletop_Magpie**

Of course, very good points! Getting way ahead of the curve there ha ha

Thanks for the fast reply.

**NinthMusketeer**

Tabletop_Magpie wrote:
Hello everyone.

So the play style for these seems like it could a bit tactical, but would you say it’s pretty forgiving/reasonable for new players?

I like the idea of a tough, low model count army and I really like the look of pretty all of these units.

Initially I’ll probably just buy them to paint, but as it looks like you could easily end up with 2k in a just a few purchases! BIG AOS scene near me too.

Cheers!

At face value they do not look like a good new player army. However, you spend more time looking at an army than you do playing it. And without a really liking for the army you are playing, it will be harder to learn be cause your head won't be as interested. Go for the army you have a passion for, difficulty be dammed.

**Kanluwen**

"Armies good for new players" is an exercise in futility at this current point in time anyways.

People aren't really playing games outside of their homes right now. You have time to learn the rules for the army and game.

If you're interested in Lumineth, then wait. for. the. book. or the army list to be made available online(which it will be). There is no guarantee that you're looking at a "tough, low model count army" from the outset. We know they can do a list with that centering around the Alarith Stonehearts.

The guy above, from what was said~~, makes these guys into a Battleline choice~~:

Those two items go with this and the Stonemage:

Together they form the Aelementari Temple of Alarith("Mountain").

So, we saw some leaks today! Important notes:
VERY limited character selection.
Eltharion, Teclis, and Avalenor are all named.
The Cathaller and Alarith Stonemage are the only two generic Hero options in the army. Lumineth lists are going to be kinda samey it looks like...especially with this note:

One Battleline choice using any Great Nation that isn't Ymetria(Teclis' Nation): the Wardens(Pikemen). Alarith Stoneguard(mallet elves) are Battleline in Ymetria.
Want to take Sentinels or Dawnriders?
You have to take an equivalent number of Wardens.
Wait till we get an English bit on this part. The page in question cuts off so you can't see everything, but it might be that for every unit of Wardens you take as Battleline you can take a unit of Sentinels or Dawnriders as Battleline as well.
There's a Warscroll Battalion which requires equal numbers though!

Personally liking this subfaction:

**Sasori**

Rough Translation:

UNITS

Vanari Wardens (120 for 10, max 30)

-Start of combat, unit champion does D3 MW to enemy unit within 3" on a 2+
-6s to hit do a MW instead
-If you attack something that's charged this turn, you get +1 wound and +1 rend
-Spell: MWs on 5+ instead of 6

Alarith Spirit of the Mountain (340)

- At the start of the combat phase, if this model didn't charge, gain +1 Attack until your next movement phase
-At the end of your hero phase, choose a LUMINETH hero within 3". If that hero is within 3" at the beginning of your next hero phase, it can use a command ability without spending a CP
-At the start of the enemy shooting phase, and any melee phase, pick 1 enemy unit with range of this ability. That unit is -1 to hit until the end of that phase. Doesn't stack.
-If this model is within 12" of a friendly STONEMAGE, you can treat this model has having suffered 0 wounds when you reference its damage table
-Command Ability:Start of combat phase, +1 Attack to a ALARITH-AELF unit wholly within 18", doesn't stack and doesn't stack with Avalenor's CA.

Alarith Stonemage (130)

-At the start of the combat phase, you can say this model takes the Stonemage Stance. If you do, this model and ALARITH STONEGUARD units within 12" cannot pile in and gain +1 Rend.
-Gravitational Diversion: Casts on 5. Caster can fly until next hero phase. 1 enemy unit within 18" takes 1 MW, can't fly, and has halved movement until next hero phase.

Scinari Cathallar (140)

-Start of the battleshock phase, pick 1 LUMINETH unit wholly within 18" and roll a die. 2+, you don't make a BS test for that unit. If at least one model from the chosen unit was slain this turn, you can pick 1 enemy unit within 18" which has to do a BS test, adding the number of models from the friendly unit to that roll.
-Darkness of the Soul: Casts on 7. Pick 1 enemy within 18" and visible to the caster, roll 2d6 each time that unit attempts a normal move, charge, or pile-in. If the result is higher than that unit's Bravery, that unit can't complete that action.

Light of Eltharion (220)

-Pick 1 enemy Hero within 3" of this model at the start of the combat phase. Add 1 to the Damage of the Celennari-Klinge for attacks against that hero
-+1 to wound with Krallenschwert des Eltharion if he charged. Also unmodified 6s to hit deal 1 MW in addition.
- In the shooting phase, choose an enemy unit within 18" and roll a dice. 1, nothing happens; 2-4, deal D3 MWs; 5+ deal D6 MWs
-Ignore save modifiers and half damage from ranged and melee attacks.
-Ignore negative hit modifiers. Unmodified hits of 6 deal two hits.
-Command Ability: Friendly units wholly within 24" of this model have bravery 10.

Teclis (660)

-Can cast 1, 2, or 3/4 spells. If 1, its auto cast and cant be unbound. If 2, it's auto cast at 12 but can be unbound. If 3 or 4, it's auto cast at 10 and can be unbound.
-Celennars Aura: +1 to cast, dispel, and unbind
-Can auto dispel 1 endless spell in your hero phase and auto unbind 1 enemy spell in their hero phase
-Friendly units in Celennar's aura ignore spells on a 4+ and an enemy within 18" takes D3 MW.
-Spell 1: 10 to cast. 5+ FNP within 18", can't be cast same turn as Hysh Protection.
-Spell 2: 10 to cast. Roll a dice for each enemy unit within 18" and visible. 1, nothing happens; 2-4 D3 MW, 5+ D6 MW

Avalenor (360)

-If this model doesn't charge, +1 Attack
-6s to hit with hammer do 1 MW in addition
-At the end of your hero phase, pick a Hero within 6". If that Hero is still within 6" at the start of your next hero phase, it can use a command ability without costing a CP
- -1 to hit for enemies within Hysh Watcher aura
-Treat this model as having suffered 0 wounds if within 12" of a Stonemage
-CA: Choose D3 Alarith-Aelf units wholly within 24". +1 Attack, can't benefit from this and Faith of the Mountains in the same phase.

Alarith Stoneguard (100 for 5, max 15)

-Standard Bearer: RR BS tests
-Unmodified 6 to hit with regular weapons deal 1 extra Damage
-Unmodified 6 to hit deal 1 MW instead
-RR hits with Stratumhammer

Vanari Sentinels (10 for 140, max 20)

-Can pick an enemy unit within 30" of the unit champion that isn't visibble, can attack as if they were visible with the long range profile.
-Two attack profiles
-Unmodified 6+ to hit does 1 MW instead, 5+ with spell
-Wizard if they have the unit champion and 5+ models

Dawnriders (130 for 5, max 20)

-Standard bearer lets you RR Battleshock tests
-Start of combat, can choose to either +1 Attack but only attack non-mounted units with 1 or 2 wounds, or add 2 but can only target unmounted units with a wound value of 1.
-+1 wound and +1 rend on charge

BATTALIONS

Alarith-Temple (120)

-1xAvalenor or Alarith Spirit of the Mountain, 1xAlarith Stonemage, 1-3xAlarith Stoneguard
-STONEGUARD units wholly within 12" of a hero from the same ability can reroll saves but can only move (pile in?) 1"

Auralan-Legion (120)

-1xScinari Cathalar, 2-4xVanari Auralan Sentinels with an equal amount of Vanari Auralan Wardens
-Units within 3" of another unit in this battallion can RR saves of 1

Dawnrider-Lance (120)

-2-3xVanari Dawnriders
-RR 1s to hit on the charge

ALLEGIANCE ABILITIES

Aetherquartz Abilities

-+1 Save when chosen as an attack target
-+1 to hit when chosen to fight
-+1 or reroll cast
-Cast an extra spell

Absorb Despair

-Once per phase, a Cathallar wholly within 18" of a unit who uses an Aetherquartz can absorb it. If they do, don't reduce that units Bravery by 1 and instead choose an enemy unit within 18" of the Cathallar and reduce it's Bravery by 1 for the rest of the battle. An enemy unit can't be affected by this more than once per battle.

Superior Reactions

-When you pick a unit to fight, you can pick two and resolve them in any order (only works during the combat phase, not at start or end of combat phase)

LORE OF HYSH

Speed of Hysh: Casts on 5 Double the movement of a friendly unit within 18" of the caster.

Solar Flare: Casts on 8. Pick a point on the battlefield within 10" of the caster. If there is an endless spell there, dispel it. If there is a unit there, roll # of models dice, Each +6 does 1 MW and until next hero phase -2 to enemy wizards cast, unbinds, and dispels.

Sparkling Light: Casts on 5. Pick an enemy unit within 18", you can reroll missile weapon attacks against that unit until your next hero phase.

Heavenly Blessing: Casts on 6. Give Ethereal to a friendly unit within 18"

Total Darkness: Casts on 8. Until next hero phase, your opponent has to spend 2 CP instead of 1 when using command abilities

Protection of Hysh: Casts on 8. Give a friendly unit wholly within 9" 5+ FNP. Doesn't stack with Teclis'.

LORE OF THE MOUNTAINS

Relentless Calm: Casts on 4. Unit wholly within 18' doesn't have to take BS tests.

Paralyzing Dizziness: Casts on 6. Pick an an enemy unit within 18" of the caster. Until your next hero phase, roll 2d6 each time the unit tries to make a normal move, pile in, or charge (?) move. If the roll is higher than the unit's bravery, it cannot make that move.

Voice of the Mountains: Casts on 6. -2 Bravery to all enemy units until end of turn, and then -1 until your next hero phase.

Living Divide: Casts on 6. Draw a 1mm line to a point 9" from the caster, on a 2+ deal D3 MWs to a unit that lines passes over

Bury: Casts on 7. Pick an enemy model within 18" and visible to the caster. Roll a dice, if the result is higher than the model's Wound characteristic, it is slain. If you roll a 6 and it is not enough to kill, deal D6 MW instead.

Stone Attack: Casts on 8. CHoose an enemy unit wholly within 24" and visible to the caster. Roll a number of dice equal to the casting roll. For each result greater than the enemy unit's save value, they take 1 MW. Rolls of 1 or 2 never deal a mortal wound and Saves of "-" count as 6 for this rule.

GRAND NATIONS

ZAITREC

-First cast, unbind, or dispel each hero phase gets +1 and each wizard knows an additional spell
-Command Trait: Can dispel 1 additional spel and can use the first dispell roll for the second
-Artefact: 6+ shrug for MWs, +2 if Teclis is on the battlefield
-Overwhelming Heat: Casts on 7. Enemy unit within 24" has halved movement, and if you roll a die and its equal to or higher than their save, they take D3

ILIATHA

-Connected Souls: +2 Bravery
-Acting with Courage: After a unit uses a command ability, you can choose a friendly unit within 3" of that one. If you do, that unit can also use that command ability without spending a CP. once per phase.
-Command Ability: Used in shooting or comat ph ase. Pick a friendly unit with at least 2 models, they can RR 1s to hit.
-Artefact: When the bearer dies, roll a dice. on a 4+ heal them back to full.

(No mandatory command trait)

SYAR

-Units start with 2 Aetherquartz instead of 1
-Command Ability: Friendly unit wholly within 18" of a hero can use 1 of its Aetherquartz
-Command Trait: Choose 1 enemy hero within 6" of this hero. That enemy hero must attack your general, and your general gets +1 to hit for attacks against that enemy hero
-Artefact: Unmodified 3+ hits always hits, Unmodified 3+ wounds always wound, and unmodified 3s to save always fail.

YMETRICA

-Ignore up to -2 Rend for units in Mountain Stance, instead of -1
-Command Ability: End of combat phase, can use Tectonic Force again against another enemy unit within 1"
-Command Trait: When you pick this guy to fight, instead of fighting you can pick an enemy unti within 1" and deal D3 MW on a 2+.
-Artefact: +1 Attack to chosen weapon, 6+ Shrug, and 5+ Spell ignore

**Thadin**

Thanks for posting. There's some pretty spicy stuff in there already, if it ends up being true. But still not the full picture without unit statlines. Teclis seems pretty great... but man, the model is baaaad.

**Kanluwen**

War of Sigmar has the warscroll cards themselves up as photos.

Basic rundown:
Wardens, Dawnriders, and Stoneguard are 4+ saves.
Wardens have 1W while Stoneguard and Dawnriders are 2W each. Stoneguard have a move of 4" while Dawnriders are 14" and Wardens are 6".

Sentinels, Cathallers, and Alarith Stonemages have 5+ saves. Sentinels are 1W each while the other two are Heroes with 5Ws each.

Teclis is a 4+ save with 16W and a sliding scale of stuff, of course.
Light of Eltharion is a 3+ save with 7W and a move of 6".
Avalenor and the generic Stoneheart are both 3+ saves with 14(Avalenor) and 12(generic) wounds each. Move is 6" on both.

Important thing to remember is that we get a bit for "Sunmetal Weapons" on the Vanari(Warden, Sentinel, Dawnrider) units where any unmodified hit rolls of 6 causes a Mortal Wound which we can boost up with the spell "Power of Hysh" to be unmodified hit rolls of 5s or 6s instead so the lack of Rend on our kits doesn't seem to be as big of a deal for that.

**Sasori**

Thadin wrote:
Thanks for posting. There's some pretty spicy stuff in there already, if it ends up being true. But still not the full picture without unit statlines. Teclis seems pretty great... but man, the model is baaaad.

Here is the pics with the statlines:

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/socials/age-of-sigmar-lumineth-rumour-roundup#rules

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is my thoughts on everything from the N&R thread:

These guys seem like they pack a huge punch, but they are fragile with no summoning.

I only have three issues that jump out at me upon just an initial skim

1. Teclis. He pretty much shuts down the magic phase if you are not Nagash or Tzeentch. He also has some busted abilities. That being said, he's only 16W with a base 4+ save. There are plenty of armies that can remove him turn 1 without breaking a sweat, or bracket him very low. Those that rely on magic to do that may have a hard time.

2. The Hammer dudes with the subfaction that makes them battleline looks like it may make them immune to up to rend -2 looks to be pretty good.,

3. The archers I'm not sure on yet. the 5+ to hit mortal wound if the spell goes off seems really good, and may end up being the boogeyman.

Other than that, they don't have a horde discount or summoning, and their aetherquartz boosts are limited. I think their core mechanics seem balanced enough that if there are any issues that a points tweak will fix it.

**Thadin**

I do like the archers, but I'm concerned about their low shot count... Though, two shots each at 30" range with a Command Ability is decent enough I suppose.

I'm a fan of the army so far. I play Ossiarchs and Skaven. I won't mind having an army a little lower or even on the power curve.

Edit: Got the alarith ability wrong at first. The ability isn't called "mountain stance" its called Enduring as Rock. And it can trigger before the game starts, and on each of your Hero Phases. Words are hard. Immunity to -2 is really strong, but I don't think it'll be enough defense against Tzeentch Flamers or Seraphon Artillery damage. It'll be big against other more balanced armies, I think.

**NinthMusketeer**

I'll hold off judgement until I can digest the whole battletome, but I can definitely see a number of potential balance concerns. Still a lot of fun stuff and a lot there for the narrative minded, pretty excited.

**Falkman**

Thadin wrote:
I do like the archers, but I'm concerned about their low shot count... Though, two shots each at 30" range with a Command Ability is decent enough I suppose.

Which command ability are you getting a second shot from?