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Slavs had a pagan god whose name was more or less Bull . he was part of a tree face trinity of gods. was the god magic, traders, craft, vows, art but his main thing was wealth. he was a god of the underworld, even if he himself was a god made out of light. His antagonis Perun, whose name means thunder.

And they were very similar in their dynamics to the hindu Waruna and Mitra.

Am sure celts and germans had similiar gods.

 Overread wrote:
Random thought - I wonder if GW in India is a big thing - if not I wonder a good/lawful faction of cow god asthetic models might sell really well out there. Remembering that its only a sort of western view that looks down on "Cows"

Like I said, a lot of it is also just that people are choosing to ignore elements of the lore that they handed out to us with the preview of the Alarith Stonelords. They're not living creatures. They're elementals.

 Overread wrote:
Random thought - I wonder if GW in India is a big thing - if not I wonder a good/lawful faction of cow god asthetic models might sell really well out there. Remembering that its only a sort of western view that looks down on "Cows"

Thats why we have Tau in 40k for each into another demographic. So that could be true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Random thought - I wonder if GW in India is a big thing - if not I wonder a good/lawful faction of cow god asthetic models might sell really well out there. Remembering that its only a sort of western view that looks down on "Cows"

Like I said, a lot of it is also just that people are choosing to ignore elements of the lore that they handed out to us with the preview of the Alarith Stonelords. They're not living creatures. They're elementals.

While that also might be true, it could be a good point to start a leap into it tho.

 Overread wrote:
Remembering that its only a sort of western view that looks down on "Cows"

I don't know why, they're delicious.

Well Cows are more deadly than sharks. a lot of people forget that.

I could do without the silly bovine helmets, but the greek style minotaurs are still a great theme to go along with the other greek inspired armor and weapons in my opinion.I don;t really get all the outrage either. These guys are not high elves, just elves that had to torch passed to them by teclis.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/11/endless-spells-to-keep-you-groundedgw-homepage-post-2/

The latest preview for Elfs and their endless spells left me a little confused, and feeling like it was lacking.

Sanctum of Amyntok appears to be missing, or not showing, a very important piece of the rule, where it denotes what "this model" is, in it's little rule blurb. Models inside of the circle? Models that Garrison the circle? Models near it? The circle itself?

I don't recall any other endless spells they teased that they didn't show how they actually worked.

 Thadin wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/11/endless-spells-to-keep-you-groundedgw-homepage-post-2/

The latest preview for Elfs and their endless spells left me a little confused, and feeling like it was lacking.

Sanctum of Amyntok appears to be missing, or not showing, a very important piece of the rule, where it denotes what "this model" is, in it's little rule blurb. Models inside of the circle? Models that Garrison the circle? Models near it? The circle itself?

I don't recall any other endless spells they teased that they didn't show how they actually worked.

The Twinstones info is incomplete too. 'Each time you cast a spell within 12" it increments a counter on a dice'... And then what?

 Thadin wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/11/endless-spells-to-keep-you-groundedgw-homepage-post-2/

The latest preview for Elfs and their endless spells left me a little confused, and feeling like it was lacking.

Sanctum of Amyntok appears to be missing, or not showing, a very important piece of the rule, where it denotes what "this model" is, in it's little rule blurb. Models inside of the circle? Models that Garrison the circle? Models near it? The circle itself?

I don't recall any other endless spells they teased that they didn't show how they actually worked.

Yeah, this one felt like it wasn't reviewed, because so much is missing from it that it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

The only ability that seems complete in the preview was the third one, the Rune of Petrification. Other Endless spell previews they don't show movement distances or things like that, so that's not abnormal from that point at least.

I think its more that they are scraping the bottom of the barrel for things they can tease us from the launch of the new model range. They are trying to spread things out against a still uncertain future for them in retail and production of this product.

Even with their warehouses open the global postal system is in chaos and manufacture is still a huge grey area for GW.

It was, seemingly, meant to go with the battle report in a White Dwarf which explains that there's an Aetherquartz mechanic--at least that's the impression I got from Galas' post in the N&R thread.

Isn't it going to be like with all the armies where all good lists have 2-3 of the big kits? like all lists run 2-3 GD, big ships, mamooths etc The fact that one can not take the cows, but then has a bad army, wouldn't smake the cow models a very voluntary option.

Karol wrote:
Isn't it going to be like with all the armies where all good lists have 2-3 of the big kits? like all lists run 2-3 GD, big ships, mamooths etc The fact that one can not take the cows, but then has a bad army, wouldn't smake the cow models a very voluntary option.

Not true for most of the tournament competitive armies, it's only really Slaanesh and Khorne where Keeper of Secrets and Bloodthrister armies are king. Even FEC lists have toned down to 1 or 2 Dragons, because players realized that's all that they needed and that Crypt Ghouls are powerful and really good at holding objectives.

Tzeentch, Skaven, Ironjawz, Deepkin, Daughters of Khaine are other powerhouse armies of varying degrees, where their best lists aren't spamming big kits. There are other armies that are at their best without wholly relying on big kits as well, but they're not on the level of the other armies mentioned.

We've yet to see any rules that will make Lumineth an army that makes their army the best with the Minotaur monsters. The only rule shown thus far to make them good, is the "Pick two units to fight when its your turn to pick, instead of 1 unit" special rule their whole army gets that I could see being very powerful for an army with a few, super-strong models/units.

Edit: I didn't count Beastclaw Raiders in the list because their entire army is built around having massive models. That's just their thing. It'd be like complaining that Sons of Behemat are going to have a low model count.

I have never seen a Stormcast Stardrake in a real game either.

I'm tempted to get one just because the model is cool. But yeah, bigger is not always better in Sigmar.

Additionally, the monsters that are also heroes have severe diminishing returns after the first in your army. It's often worth putting your command trait and artefact on it after all! That actually does apply to Ogors, the first Stonehorn with Rune Tokens and Black Clatterhorn etc is an absolute beast! Subsequent Stonehorns are nowhere near as scary.

So yeah, Slaanesh and Khorne are really exceptions, not the rule.

I've got a feeling that Eltharion is going to be quite nasty.

In the N&R Thread, there was a White Dwarf article printed about a battle report, but didn't see anything posted about the actual battle in the thread, and it showed the points cost of a bunch of the models.

For a 7 Wound Hero (Look out Sir), 3+ No Modifier Save, Halve all damage taken from a unit's attacks, beefy melee stat line shown, plus a shooting attack mentioned and probably some other abilities/command abilities to buff allies... Even without speculating on extra abilities, he seems pretty strong for 220 points.

Teclis at 660pts
Scinari Cathallar (Veiled sad wizard) at 140pts
Avalenor (Cow-lord) at 360pts
Alarith Stonemage at 130pts

10 Spear and shield guys - 120
10 Bow guys - 140
5 Dawnguard cavalry - 130
5 Alarith Stoneguard - 100pts

Can't comment on the value of the rest, because not enough abilities were shown. Eltharion is the furtherest in depth they've gone so far.

 Overread wrote:
Random thought - I wonder if GW in India is a big thing - if not I wonder a good/lawful faction of cow god asthetic models might sell really well out there. Remembering that its only a sort of western view that looks down on "Cows"

No offense, and this isn't directed at you specifically, but the notion that a superficial motif is done to appeal to a foreign culture is ignorant imo. The idea that Tau would appeal to the Asian market because of robots, communism and fish people, is just as dumb. Japanese do stylize the modern imagery of the samurai, but they do just as much for the stereotypical western Knight. There are many more Japanophiles in the West than there are nationalists in Japan. My best friend is from North Africa and a devout Muslim, but he's a Bretonnian through and through. If you were to play a Korean MMO would you exclusively play some white bloke or have no interest unless you could?

Karol wrote:
Isn't it going to be like with all the armies where all good lists have 2-3 of the big kits? like all lists run 2-3 GD, big ships, mamooths etc

(Sigh....) No.
All "good lists" do not involve 2-3 of the big kits. And there's more to playing this game well than relying on spamming the biggest most expensive things you can find.

Karol wrote:
The fact that one can not take the cows, but then has a bad army, wouldn't smake the cow models a very voluntary option.

There is no evidence to suggest a good list couldn't be made without the cows.

Nor is there even any evidence that a good list would take any Cows st all!

It's all wait and see.

 Bloviator wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Random thought - I wonder if GW in India is a big thing - if not I wonder a good/lawful faction of cow god asthetic models might sell really well out there. Remembering that its only a sort of western view that looks down on "Cows"

No offense, and this isn't directed at you specifically, but the notion that a superficial motif is done to appeal to a foreign culture is ignorant imo. The idea that Tau would appeal to the Asian market because of robots, communism and fish people, is just as dumb. Japanese do stylize the modern imagery of the samurai, but they do just as much for the stereotypical western Knight. There are many more Japanophiles in the West than there are nationalists in Japan. My best friend is from North Africa and a devout Muslim, but he's a Bretonnian through and through. If you were to play a Korean MMO would you exclusively play some white bloke or have no interest unless you could?

The Fish part is stupid (PS I had a theory the fish part was b.c of star wars Otoh Gunga), but... Its clear they for sure was influenced by it.

Ashigaru? check
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashigaru
See all fire warriors

Conical hat? check
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_conical_hat
See Fire warriors/Drones

Japanese naming style for high figures? check
https://cotoacademy.com/japanese-honorific-prefixes/
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Shas%27O_Kais
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Shas%27O_Or%27es%27Ka

Fire Warrior 2002 game speaking in Asian accent? check
https://youtu.be/PpzICc2E57Q?t=204

Big mech robots? check
Tau used instead of Tao with a lot of influence for Tao? Check

So does that mean this army could be? No but there still is a chance.

While I agree that several armies have design choices/inspirations ect drawing from different non-western cultures, I'd hardly say that those armies were designed to be sold in that demographic. After all, the design has to appeal to a lot more people to be commercially viable, I'd imagine.

To me personally, the Lumineth seem more Greek inspired than Indian. However, that opinion could skew if we start seeing some ranged Chakram units teased for the army, or other culturally-inspired design choices. Speaking of, has GW released models armed with Chakram before? They've put out a host of 'strange' ranged weapons, but I can't recall seeing any of those.

 Thadin wrote:

To me personally, the Lumineth seem more Greek inspired than Indian.

Yeah, very Minoan.

 Thadin wrote:
While I agree that several armies have design choices/inspirations ect drawing from different non-western cultures, I'd hardly say that those armies were designed to be sold in that demographic. After all, the design has to appeal to a lot more people to be commercially viable, I'd imagine.

To me personally, the Lumineth seem more Greek inspired than Indian. However, that opinion could skew if we start seeing some ranged Chakram units teased for the army, or other culturally-inspired design choices. Speaking of, has GW released models armed with Chakram before? They've put out a host of 'strange' ranged weapons, but I can't recall seeing any of those.

Yea, the Cypher lords from warcry are the biggest mishmash of asian themes in AoS right now, with Katanas / Dao, Guandao, blade fans, shurikans and Chakrams. And they come from the Realm of light.... hmmm.

Honestly, the Lumineth seem greek themed with the core troops, but the banzai trees on the base divine bovine model and the Stonemage in general has some pretty big eastern influence vibes in my oppinion. The meditation pose on the mage on what looks like a zen pedestal seems to be the biggest thing to come from eastern influences.

it looks like a nice mashup of greek warrior culture and eastern.

And, as for cultural appropriation... Who the feth cares? it's cool. Cool models sell. Eastern warrior culture is interesting, and people may look into it more if they like what they see. Get over it.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 Bloviator wrote:

 Overread wrote:
Random thought - I wonder if GW in India is a big thing - if not I wonder a good/lawful faction of cow god asthetic models might sell really well out there. Remembering that its only a sort of western view that looks down on "Cows"

No offense, and this isn't directed at you specifically, but the notion that a superficial motif is done to appeal to a foreign culture is ignorant imo. The idea that Tau would appeal to the Asian market because of robots, communism and fish people, is just as dumb. Japanese do stylize the modern imagery of the samurai, but they do just as much for the stereotypical western Knight. There are many more Japanophiles in the West than there are nationalists in Japan. My best friend is from North Africa and a devout Muslim, but he's a Bretonnian through and through. If you were to play a Korean MMO would you exclusively play some white bloke or have no interest unless you could?

The Fish part is stupid (PS I had a theory the fish part was b.c of star wars Otoh Gunga), but... Its clear they for sure was influenced by it.

Ashigaru? check
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashigaru
See all fire warriors

Conical hat? check
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_conical_hat
See Fire warriors/Drones

Japanese naming style for high figures? check
https://cotoacademy.com/japanese-honorific-prefixes/
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Shas%27O_Kais
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Shas%27O_Or%27es%27Ka

Fire Warrior 2002 game speaking in Asian accent? check
https://youtu.be/PpzICc2E57Q?t=204

Big mech robots? check
Tau used instead of Tao with a lot of influence for Tao? Check

So does that mean this army could be? No but there still is a chance.

None of this indicates they were designed to penetrate the Asian market.

The reality is likely more nuanced.

They probably considered they would have potential popularity in Asian markets. They also probably considered that westerners also often like a lot of eastern historical and mythical tropes and there would likely be a market for it at home too.

There's also likely a large factor of 'a designer had an idea they thought was cool'.

Another factor is that there's three distinctive design aesthetics:
A) The 'militias' in the form of the Dawnriders, Sentinels, and Wardens. These are fluffed as being neither Tyrionic or Teclisian in designs. Eltharion falls under this bit.
B) The 'elemental temples'. We've only seen Mountain at this juncture. Who knows if we'll see River, Zenith, or Wind.
C) The 'wizards'. The Alarith Stonemage is part of the elemental temple, not the wizards so he gives a weird offset to it. So far it's just Teclis and the Cathallar that are our 'wizards' for the aesthetics.

The new High Elf faction is a bit of a hit and miss. Love some of the models a lot while disliking the others. The Hammer Elves I am not a fan of, and Teclis is weird with his animal. The Cow Giants are the bomb though, love the hell out of them and will probably get myself one as a painting and display model.

I'm a fan of Teclis'... cat... thing, but not a fan of the man himself. I may have said it in this thread earlier, but I fell in love with the serene graceful look he had in the revealed concept art... Then the model gets shown and he's making a sour face, wearing a weird shawl, and wearing some questionable pants, and in an awkward Y-shaped pose. Bleh. Big miss for their centerpiece god. Will need to think of a kitbash for an alternative Teclis.

 Thadin wrote:
I'm a fan of Teclis'... cat... thing, but not a fan of the man himself. I may have said it in this thread earlier, but I fell in love with the serene graceful look he had in the revealed concept art... Then the model gets shown and he's making a sour face, wearing a weird shawl, and wearing some questionable pants, and in an awkward Y-shaped pose. Bleh. Big miss for their centerpiece god. Will need to think of a kitbash for an alternative Teclis.

Yeah, I agree pretty strongly with this. The Concept art for Teclis was amazing. The execution was awful. Not exactly sure what happened there.

The Spirit of Hysh is a fantastic model.

 Thadin wrote:
Speaking of, has GW released models armed with Chakram before? They've put out a host of 'strange' ranged weapons, but I can't recall seeing any of those.

One sculpt from the Warcry Cypher Lords warband is all I can think of

It's actually rather amazing how bland GW is with weapons in general - there's loads of fancy weapons out there (both real and fantasy) yet GW has always stuck mostly to spears, swords and bows with attachments. You really notice it if you compare to something like the Dynasty Warriors or Soulblade games. I suspect AoS will push the envelope more and more on crazy weapons!