Warhammer Community wrote:It’s going to be another full week here on the Warhammer Community website as we continue to look ahead to the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. We’ll be taking a closer look at Vehicles, monstrous creatures, blast weapons and terrain, as well as previewing rules from War of the Spider.
On Saturday, you’ll be able to catch the next Warhammer Preview Online! Last month, we revealed the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. This time, we have something else amazing for you – the upcoming boxed set. We’ll be lifting the lid and showing off the awesome models and more that the launch box contains – so make sure that you join us from 2pm (BST). We think this is the best Warhammer 40,00 boxed set that we’ve ever made, so don’t miss it!
I for one am looking forward to this. There are a few things in the pics we think are the box contents which Necron players have no ID for.
Looking forward to seeing these amazing new Necron kits, but I'm not going to bother with the livestream. They've all shown too little IMO but the last one, which was built up as the biggest ever and ended up showing two and a half models, was the straw that broke the camel's back. Especially as shortly afterwards we saw leaked photos of loads of stuff. If they'd shown half of that in the actual event it would have been much more exciting.
Love the Combat Intercessors and even the chunky bikes.
Not too keen in the Veterans. My army theme is Vanguard and Reseve Companies, so I could have 8th Co bikes and Combat Intercessors, and 9th company Melta guys. But the Vets are out of place.
Might just hold off till the Intercessors are sold separately.
I'll try to watch the rules previews and check out the previews for War of the Spider but have no interest in the box set as I don't play Necrons and am only interested in how primaris look in my opponent's dead pile.
So it seems that the leaked images were indeed what we would see inside of the box. Hopefully we get some in depth stuff about them instead of just them saying "Look, here they are"
I'm looking forward to the assault intercessors, hellfury, & bikes. The veterans shields are looking like great starting points for drakescale sculpting.
All of the other units in the box have basically zero interest to me(they're horrid, I'm looking @ you Judicator & Ancient). Will prob sell them to get more units my Salamanders can actually use.
I wouldn't be surprised if we only get the unit name, pics and a little bit of information tomorrow with a more in-depth look via Warhammer Community in the following week or so.
I'm looking forward to all the cool models. My oldest is collecting Necrons, and I'm building up a Primaris stockpile for an eventual return of my very first 40K army in biggerized form.
All this rules drama...I dunno. I don't understand how anyone takes 40K that seriously. At least not anyone who's been around for a few editions or more.
The question is do we get 2 scarab swarms, or 4? If you look at the bottom right picture of the space marine one, you can see barely see more than 2 scarab swarms. Though, that could just be to give the marines something to be facing and not indicative of the models in the box.
But, since the current warriors came with 2 scarab swarms per 10 models, so it's not impossible to think we could get 4 for the 20 in the boxset
Looks like its as the rumoured pics then. Some nice models but for me its easy to pass since I'm not keen on necrons and only like a few of those Primaris there.
A shame since I usually get some kits for me on my upcoming Bday so its a missed chance really.
I hope the SM dex is sold not long after this boxset though.
gorgon wrote:I'm looking forward to all the cool models. My oldest is collecting Necrons, and I'm building up a Primaris stockpile for an eventual return of my very first 40K army in biggerized form.
All this rules drama...I dunno. I don't understand how anyone takes 40K that seriously. At least not anyone who's been around for a few editions or more.
We know the two model halves already. What I'm most curious about is if the rumour that the box has two Kill Team boards inside is true (allowing buyers to start playing right away).
Second question is whether terrain is included, and how much.
Third is whether they also preview supplemental purchases like a Secondary Mission deck, new objective markers and that sort of thing.
All this rules drama...I dunno. I don't understand how anyone takes 40K that seriously. At least not anyone who's been around for a few editions or more.
GW makes us pay for rules at a high price. If the rules are bad the complaints make sense. Stop settling for mediocrity.
Crazyterran wrote: I hope the vanilla SM book doesn't get an update off the bat and they update one of the older ones first. If they updated SM again so soon...
It's not that hard to have an extra PDF or booklet, considering how much we already have!
Actually for simplicity sake they should have bigger and less books... PDFS errata, dex, etc etc... Its such a PITA to even try to find what you need that its best to have less split data.
All this rules drama...I dunno. I don't understand how anyone takes 40K that seriously. At least not anyone who's been around for a few editions or more.
GW makes us pay for rules at a high price. If the rules are bad the complaints make sense. Stop settling for mediocrity.
At some point, you have to look at what something is and has been for over 30 YEARS and accept that it's not changing. They have you on a treadmill and you're complaining because YOU can't figure out you're not getting anywhere and/or refuse to get off.
Meanwhile, GW is pouring even MORE narrative focus into 9th and the TOs will soon be hammering harder than ever to pound that square peg into the round hole of "pro Warhammer" and pretend that the game is really aimed at them. Look, they can do whatever they want and so can you. I just don't get it. It's like buying a '70s Jaguar and complaining that it's not the ultra-reliable, safe, high MPG family sedan that you need. This isn't even a bash at GW. They make much better rulesets than 40K...better suited to more competitive play. For light-hearted, casual fun with my kid, 40K works just fine.
Dentry wrote: Oh boy! I can't wait to be surprised by the never-before-seen contents of the new starter box!
Will they be revealing the price of the starter or is that going to be revealed when pre-orders go live?
The price will get released when preorders go up, as they tell us it's in limited stock because of corona. Then everyone will buy it regardless of price because of fomo.
A GW profit win and a sell out to brag about.
I love my Necrons, but I have a feeling most of my army will be redundant soon.
Asmodai wrote: We know the two model halves already. What I'm most curious about is if the rumour that the box has two Kill Team boards inside is true (allowing buyers to start playing right away).
Second question is whether terrain is included, and how much.
Third is whether they also preview supplemental purchases like a Secondary Mission deck, new objective markers and that sort of thing.
I picked up Dark Imperium recently since it's going OOP. I had only purchased the rulebook before. And wow, there was a lot of plastic in that box. I might have poo-pooed the idea of boards or some terrain before -- I found it hard to believe that the pics we saw could represent starter box forces -- but I'm willing to believe now.
"We" being the online community centered around forums & Facebook pages.
It really is astonishing how many people still insist that such a thing is 100% participated in by everyone who plays 40k. A couple of the folks I regularly play with actively shy away from forums and groups specifically because of how the community within acts. They'll check the Warhammer Community page and the reveals there no problem though.
What I'm most curious about is if the rumour that the box has two Kill Team boards inside is true (allowing buyers to start playing right away).
Second question is whether terrain is included, and how much.
Hrmh. That may be where the Sector Fronteris terrain wandered off to.
For those unaware, it was this:
Spoiler:
It's stuff that mixes well with the Ryza pattern ruins.
Third is whether they also preview supplemental purchases like a Secondary Mission deck, new objective markers and that sort of thing.
I would be doubtful of that, unless they actually come in the box. Tomorrow's reveal is "lifting the lid" on the box.
I'd hazard a guess that the only non-box related stuff we might see is the boxes meant to go with the main box,the rulebook proper, and the codices for the two box armies.
"We" being the online community centered around forums & Facebook pages.
It really is astonishing how many people still insist that such a thing is 100% participated in by everyone who plays 40k. A couple of the folks I regularly play with actively shy away from forums and groups specifically because of how the community within acts. They'll check the Warhammer Community page and the reveals there no problem though.
Spoiler:
What I'm most curious about is if the rumour that the box has two Kill Team boards inside is true (allowing buyers to start playing right away).
Second question is whether terrain is included, and how much.
Hrmh. That may be where the Sector Fronteris terrain wandered off to.
For those unaware, it was this:
[spoiler]
It's stuff that mixes well with the Ryza pattern ruins.
Third is whether they also preview supplemental purchases like a Secondary Mission deck, new objective markers and that sort of thing.
I would be doubtful of that, unless they actually come in the box. Tomorrow's reveal is "lifting the lid" on the box.
I'd hazard a guess that the only non-box related stuff we might see is the boxes meant to go with the main box,the rulebook proper, and the codices for the two box armies.[/spoiler]
Pretty much everyone in my local area actively stays away from the forums/FB pages, since all it ever really devolves into is bitching and moaning about gak, vitriol and irrational suppositions using subjective understanding about something that requires objectivity.
ya know what answer I get when I ask players if they go on DakkaDakka....hell no, why on earth would anyone subject themselves to that vile cesspool.
"We" being the online community centered around forums & Facebook pages.
It really is astonishing how many people still insist that such a thing is 100% participated in by everyone who plays 40k. A couple of the folks I regularly play with actively shy away from forums and groups specifically because of how the community within acts. They'll check the Warhammer Community page and the reveals there no problem though.
Spoiler:
What I'm most curious about is if the rumour that the box has two Kill Team boards inside is true (allowing buyers to start playing right away).
Second question is whether terrain is included, and how much.
Hrmh. That may be where the Sector Fronteris terrain wandered off to.
For those unaware, it was this:
[spoiler]
It's stuff that mixes well with the Ryza pattern ruins.
Third is whether they also preview supplemental purchases like a Secondary Mission deck, new objective markers and that sort of thing.
I would be doubtful of that, unless they actually come in the box. Tomorrow's reveal is "lifting the lid" on the box.
I'd hazard a guess that the only non-box related stuff we might see is the boxes meant to go with the main box,the rulebook proper, and the codices for the two box armies.[/spoiler]
Pretty much everyone in my local area actively stays away from the forums/FB pages, since all it ever really devolves into is bitching and moaning about gak, vitriol and irrational suppositions using subjective understanding about something that requires objectivity.
ya know what answer I get when I ask players if they go on DakkaDakka....hell no, why on earth would anyone subject themselves to that vile cesspool.
To be fair, I avoid looking on the official FB page for a similar reason. There's no actual discussion, either the most petty of complaining, or the most gushing of praise. I don't really want either, but that's all that's there. At least on here I can see people actually talk with other humans (though plenty just shout over each other).
"We" being the online community centered around forums & Facebook pages.
It really is astonishing how many people still insist that such a thing is 100% participated in by everyone who plays 40k. A couple of the folks I regularly play with actively shy away from forums and groups specifically because of how the community within acts. They'll check the Warhammer Community page and the reveals there no problem though.
Spoiler:
What I'm most curious about is if the rumour that the box has two Kill Team boards inside is true (allowing buyers to start playing right away).
Second question is whether terrain is included, and how much.
Hrmh. That may be where the Sector Fronteris terrain wandered off to.
For those unaware, it was this:
[spoiler]
It's stuff that mixes well with the Ryza pattern ruins.
Third is whether they also preview supplemental purchases like a Secondary Mission deck, new objective markers and that sort of thing.
I would be doubtful of that, unless they actually come in the box. Tomorrow's reveal is "lifting the lid" on the box.
I'd hazard a guess that the only non-box related stuff we might see is the boxes meant to go with the main box,the rulebook proper, and the codices for the two box armies.[/spoiler]
Pretty much everyone in my local area actively stays away from the forums/FB pages, since all it ever really devolves into is bitching and moaning about gak, vitriol and irrational suppositions using subjective understanding about something that requires objectivity.
ya know what answer I get when I ask players if they go on DakkaDakka....hell no, why on earth would anyone subject themselves to that vile cesspool.
There was a nice long thread in nuts and bolts about this exact thing recently, whilst the mods were engaging with the idea there needs to be changes, unfortunately it does not seem like much has changed. Why on earth certain posters are not banned from this forum I really do not know, the removal of 5-10 posters would infinitely increase the atmosphere on here.
One thing I will say though, it could be worse, it could be reddit...
All this rules drama...I dunno. I don't understand how anyone takes 40K that seriously. At least not anyone who's been around for a few editions or more.
GW makes us pay for rules at a high price. If the rules are bad the complaints make sense. Stop settling for mediocrity.
At some point, you have to look at what something is and has been for over 30 YEARS and accept that it's not changing. They have you on a treadmill and you're complaining because YOU can't figure out you're not getting anywhere and/or refuse to get off.
Meanwhile, GW is pouring even MORE narrative focus into 9th and the TOs will soon be hammering harder than ever to pound that square peg into the round hole of "pro Warhammer" and pretend that the game is really aimed at them. Look, they can do whatever they want and so can you. I just don't get it. It's like buying a '70s Jaguar and complaining that it's not the ultra-reliable, safe, high MPG family sedan that you need. This isn't even a bash at GW. They make much better rulesets than 40K...better suited to more competitive play. For light-hearted, casual fun with my kid, 40K works just fine.
Have you been watching Mad Men recently? lmao, I just saw the Jaguar parts of season 5.
I agree with your points.
The TOs and many players, especially in America, have always wanted Warhammer and 40k to be something that GW just isn't interested in making.
All this rules drama...I dunno. I don't understand how anyone takes 40K that seriously. At least not anyone who's been around for a few editions or more.
GW makes us pay for rules at a high price. If the rules are bad the complaints make sense. Stop settling for mediocrity.
At some point, you have to look at what something is and has been for over 30 YEARS and accept that it's not changing. They have you on a treadmill and you're complaining because YOU can't figure out you're not getting anywhere and/or refuse to get off.
Meanwhile, GW is pouring even MORE narrative focus into 9th and the TOs will soon be hammering harder than ever to pound that square peg into the round hole of "pro Warhammer" and pretend that the game is really aimed at them. Look, they can do whatever they want and so can you. I just don't get it. It's like buying a '70s Jaguar and complaining that it's not the ultra-reliable, safe, high MPG family sedan that you need. This isn't even a bash at GW. They make much better rulesets than 40K...better suited to more competitive play. For light-hearted, casual fun with my kid, 40K works just fine.
You don't need $50 rule to do that then. Just go pewpew and whoever makes the best noises wins! You SHOULD expect a good product for the money you spend. If you're spending money and not expecting anything good...why spend the money in the first place? For that quality they're in, they should be releasing the rules for free.
You don't need $50 rule to do that then. Just go pewpew and whoever makes the best noises wins! You SHOULD expect a good product for the money you spend. If you're spending money and not expecting anything good...why spend the money in the first place? For that quality they're in, they should be releasing the rules for free.
It is a good product for my purposes. If it is not good for your purposes, you don't need to buy it.
You don't need $50 rule to do that then. Just go pewpew and whoever makes the best noises wins! You SHOULD expect a good product for the money you spend. If you're spending money and not expecting anything good...why spend the money in the first place? For that quality they're in, they should be releasing the rules for free.
It is a good product for my purposes. If it is not good for your purposes, you don't need to buy it.
The problem is your purposes don't NEED a rulebook if you aren't wanting anything balanced or precise or tight. You can be sloppy for free.
You don't need $50 rule to do that then. Just go pewpew and whoever makes the best noises wins! You SHOULD expect a good product for the money you spend. If you're spending money and not expecting anything good...why spend the money in the first place? For that quality they're in, they should be releasing the rules for free.
It is a good product for my purposes. If it is not good for your purposes, you don't need to buy it.
The problem is your purposes don't NEED a rulebook if you aren't wanting anything balanced or precise or tight. You can be sloppy for free.
Come on, you don't NEED a car to go to the shops but it makes it faster, easier and more enjoyable. Don't turn this into another "GW rules are crap, don't pay for them, don't play the game and support mediocrity" monologue again.
On topic I'm hoping for some rules info on the crons units, if it's just some design aesthetic waffle and a pic of the contents that's going to be a shame.
It’s unlikely, but I’m hoping we get at least some clue as to whether the multipart Assault Intercessors will have jump packs. I think for now they’ll want to focus on this box set, but I’m hoping they drop at least some hint. My Blood Angels would loooooove some Primaris Jump Packs.
I expect the launch date for the starter to be announced alonside with the unboxing. I think its going to launch very soon, in a few weeks or so. Availability of existing kits is low outside GW's own store, I'd wager the factories in the east have been making these new starter boxes for a while already. It takes about a month to ship some containers to the UK/Europe/US, the boats have probably left China already.
Would be nice if assault interecessors came with jump packs, but I don't think they will. Jump packs might be included with the standalone assault intereseccors kit once its out, if even then.
Its been pretty hilarious reading yanks crapping their pants over the rew rules leaks. I'm starting to hate the whole tourney scene, what a bunch of Sgt BuzzKills. Maybe they would indeed be better off playing 40K with tokens instead of minis, and using standardized obstacle tokens as well. The idea of always having L-shaped fugly ruins in the middle of a board makes me cringe. You always yapping about balance, tell you what, always make boards 100% symmetrical and always use exact same armies on hoth sides. 100% balance. Not get off my lawn
I wonder if the box includes 1 or 2 "Kill Team Boards".
2 of them would be the new (minimum) 1000 points gaming table. Two boxes could give you the new 2000 points table. Marine theme on one side, Necron theme on the other side. Possibly Necrons and Marines in different coloured plastic.
It'd make 40K much more "out of the box"-kinda game (as close at it can get).
tauist wrote: I expect the launch date for the starter to be announced alonside with the unboxing. I think its going to launch very soon, in a few weeks or so. Availability of existing kits is low outside GW's own store, I'd wager the factories in the east have been making these new starter boxes for a while already. It takes about a month to ship some containers to the UK/Europe/US, the boats have probably left China already.
Would be nice if assault interecessors came with jump packs, but I don't think they will. Jump packs might be included with the standalone assault intereseccors kit once its out, if even then.
Its been pretty hilarious reading yanks crapping their pants over the rew rules leaks. I'm starting to hate the whole tourney scene, what a bunch of Sgt BuzzKills. Maybe they would indeed be better off playing 40K with tokens instead of minis, and using standardized obstacle tokens as well. The idea of always having L-shaped fugly ruins in the middle of a board makes me cringe. You always yapping about balance, tell you what, always make boards 100% symmetrical and always use exact same armies on hoth sides. 100% balance. Not get off my lawn
I was under the impression that all the GW models were made at the factory in Nottingham, It was the books and ancillary things that were made abroad. I think the GW factory has only just restarted (probably with limited production) so I'm not sure what the lead time would be. If everything was finalised before the lockdown then it could be soon, but otherwise there might be a bit of a lag, or limited numbers.
I think its a special skill to go "I wonder what we will see?" when... yes, they know. We know. The average punter on this stream almost certainly knows.
But hey, could be something that's been concealed.
Would really be interesting if there were points for what is in the kit - or indeed rules for new models - but I am 99.999% certain that won't happen. Sound's like that will be next week's big reveal.
I don't know - its impatient, but I wish they would just get on with it, rather than teasing for another month.
"We" being the online community centered around forums & Facebook pages.
It really is astonishing how many people still insist that such a thing is 100% participated in by everyone who plays 40k. A couple of the folks I regularly play with actively shy away from forums and groups specifically because of how the community within acts. They'll check the Warhammer Community page and the reveals there no problem though.
Spoiler:
What I'm most curious about is if the rumour that the box has two Kill Team boards inside is true (allowing buyers to start playing right away).
Second question is whether terrain is included, and how much.
Hrmh. That may be where the Sector Fronteris terrain wandered off to.
For those unaware, it was this:
[spoiler]
It's stuff that mixes well with the Ryza pattern ruins.
Third is whether they also preview supplemental purchases like a Secondary Mission deck, new objective markers and that sort of thing.
I would be doubtful of that, unless they actually come in the box. Tomorrow's reveal is "lifting the lid" on the box.
I'd hazard a guess that the only non-box related stuff we might see is the boxes meant to go with the main box,the rulebook proper, and the codices for the two box armies.[/spoiler]
Pretty much everyone in my local area actively stays away from the forums/FB pages, since all it ever really devolves into is bitching and moaning about gak, vitriol and irrational suppositions using subjective understanding about something that requires objectivity.
ya know what answer I get when I ask players if they go on DakkaDakka....hell no, why on earth would anyone subject themselves to that vile cesspool.
It's pretty normal for group thinkers to avoid outside opinions and input because it conflicts with their world view. Everyone who's not in your group is obviously evil and part of some vile cesspool.
Looks like the Warrior sprue has enough guns to do ten of either option? I guess they will be getting the chain wrasp treatment and be released separately.
Ever since the primaris marines showed up I've pretty much lost all interest in 40K proper and moved onto titanicus and other ranges but those new models are making me think it could be time for a new army...
So a "Launch Set", not a starter set. No dice, rulers, any of that stuff. Just the minis, the rules to use them, transfers, assembly guide, and hardback core rulebook.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So a "Launch Set", not a starter set. No dice, rulers, any of that stuff. Just the minis, the rules to use them, transfers, assembly guide, and hardback core rulebook.
This might mean that GW is going to go for the individual faction starter sets being pushed on newbies instead of a duel army pack that only caters to two armies. Being quite a chance since that weakens the whole "everyone starts with marines" since they always came in the starter sets. IT might also suggest that this box could be a limited edition and not long term with a long term starter arriving later - perhaps with fewer models etc...
Overall I freaking love the new necron stuff! Including all the little extra minion models and also the new reanimator!
You simply do not want to miss out on this amazing set, so it’s important to mention that, as it’s a special launch box to celebrate the new edition, it won’t be around forever.
Price tag I’m of course flexible on, spesh as I intend to swap my Marines for someone’s Necrons.
Rumor is 180 pounds.
They were very adamant about this being a launch set and not a starter set. Considering that the sprues seem to be actual kits I imagine this won't be a perpetual kit.
Price tag I’m of course flexible on, spesh as I intend to swap my Marines for someone’s Necrons.
Rumor is 180 pounds.
They were very adamant about this being a launch set and not a starter set. Considering that the sprues seem to be actual kits I imagine this won't be a perpetual kit.
A lot of it is still pushfit, I'm not sure if all is going to be actual kits.
H.B.M.C. wrote: So a "Launch Set", not a starter set. No dice, rulers, any of that stuff. Just the minis, the rules to use them, transfers, assembly guide, and hardback core rulebook.
Yeah, that is something of a surprise. I am keeping an open mind about it, but I wonder how much of an impediment it will be to new players.
The models are nice, don't get me wrong, but the semantic gibberring in the video (launch set vs starter set) and random bits of lorebreaking get really tiresome. All the melee focus on primaris seems to pointless since, other than the bikes, there isn't any delivery method.
Lore aside- what kings did the Ultramarines slay? Their video refers to them as 'kingslayers' and I've absolutely no idea why.
----
Necrons look great.
New overlord with new aesthetic and weapon is surprising
Warden is...vague.
Plasmancer is a stupid name for neat looking model.
Murder bucket bodyguards seem... fine.
Skorpekhs I still like the design. We'll see if they're fast enough to rate trying to push into melee
Plasmacyte... support piece for skorpekhs. Hmm.
Reanimator- another support piece.. I'm dubious about trying to fix reanimation protocols with support units, so this has me worried. Like the wraiths, it seems problematic on 40mm, with a tendency to fall over.
Scarab redesign is fine- looks like they actually have limbs now, and more to a base.
Warriors, nice models, but we'll have to see if they're worth throwing in a list.
---
Too many frills and yapping around a straight forward model reveal. All that mattered was getting the pictures up.
It's not a Warscythe, it's a hyperphase glaive...
It's not an Annointed Immortal, it's a Royal Warden...
It's not a Gauss Blaster, it's a Relic Gauss blaster...
It's not a Tomb Spyder, it's a Canoptek Reanimator...
It's not a Cryptek, it's a Plasmancer...
Price tag I’m of course flexible on, spesh as I intend to swap my Marines for someone’s Necrons.
Rumor is 180 pounds.
They were very adamant about this being a launch set and not a starter set. Considering that the sprues seem to be actual kits I imagine this won't be a perpetual kit.
It's not a Warscythe, it's a hyperphase glaive...
It's not an Annointed Immortal, it's a Royal Warden...
It's not a Gauss Blaster, it's a Relic Gauss blaster...
It's not a Tomb Spyder, it's a Canoptek Reanimator...
It's not a Cryptek, it's a Plasmancer...
H.B.M.C. wrote: So a "Launch Set", not a starter set. No dice, rulers, any of that stuff. Just the minis, the rules to use them, transfers, assembly guide, and hardback core rulebook.
This might mean that GW is going to go for the individual faction starter sets being pushed on newbies instead of a duel army pack that only caters to two armies. Being quite a chance since that weakens the whole "everyone starts with marines" since they always came in the starter sets. IT might also suggest that this box could be a limited edition and not long term with a long term starter arriving later - perhaps with fewer models etc...
Overall I freaking love the new necron stuff! Including all the little extra minion models and also the new reanimator!
There might also be equivalents to Know No Fear and First Strike - much more affordable as an impulse purchase.
Indomitus looks like a pretty nice box so far though.
I know the article says pushfit but the sprue on the preview didn't look pushfit - they looked normal with optional weapons and such. I wonder if the person writing got something wrong on that front. Certainly the necron stuff looked normal for necrons rather than pushfit designs.
Overread wrote: I know the article says pushfit but the sprue on the preview didn't look pushfit - they looked normal with optional weapons and such. I wonder if the person writing got something wrong on that front. Certainly the necron stuff looked normal for necrons rather than pushfit designs.
Yeah. Maybe some bits do so they’ve said it.
But I’d say they are the proper kits, judging by them giving ‘value’ on the box etc
Overread wrote: I know the article says pushfit but the sprue on the preview didn't look pushfit - they looked normal with optional weapons and such. I wonder if the person writing got something wrong on that front. Certainly the necron stuff looked normal for necrons rather than pushfit designs.
Yeah. Maybe some bits do so they’ve said it.
But I’d say they are the proper kits, judging by them giving ‘value’ on the box etc
Ditto. Also, it's a limited launch product. I don't think they'd do that many sprues for something that will only be on sale for a couple weeks.
Overread wrote: I know the article says pushfit but the sprue on the preview didn't look pushfit - they looked normal with optional weapons and such. I wonder if the person writing got something wrong on that front. Certainly the necron stuff looked normal for necrons rather than pushfit designs.
Yeah. Maybe some bits do so they’ve said it.
But I’d say they are the proper kits, judging by them giving ‘value’ on the box etc
Ditto. Also, it's a limited launch product. I don't think they'd do that many sprues for something that will only be on sale for a couple weeks.
For sure. It’d be such a waste..
I think it is indeed £120.
I could quite see each side costing £120 each if they were sold as individual kits so that’s in line with £240 separately..
Overread wrote: I know the article says pushfit but the sprue on the preview didn't look pushfit - they looked normal with optional weapons and such. I wonder if the person writing got something wrong on that front. Certainly the necron stuff looked normal for necrons rather than pushfit designs.
Actually, looking at the shoulder joins for the warriors? They look like pushfits.
They're blatantly not ball and socket like the current ones- you can see a diamond or pentagonal socket at the top left of the picture, and the one below him has an arm that's farm too spindly (the armor layer is missing)
The skorpekh designs really lend themselves to push fit (basically short poles joining weapons to arms).
As soon as I heard "not a starter set" first thing I thought was, pricier than a starter set then. I'm sure this is going to be at least $220, probably more, but it's a fine set and I can't see myself not picking it up.
Seeing as it's a Harbinger of Destruction, a class of Cryptek found in the fifth edition codex that was also called a Plasmancer...
Why does the Plasmancer need to be a new distinct unit? Why not just give the standard Cryptek the option to take an eldritch lance (oh, no, sorry - its plasmic lance now) back?
Though I must admit I am disappointed to see the Captain only has a MC power sword. For a choppy sword squad why wouldn’t he have a relic blade? Also no mention of what firearm he has.
The vet squad not having the volkite pistols was a surprise too.
Seeing as it's a Harbinger of Destruction, a class of Cryptek found in the fifth edition codex that was also called a Plasmancer...
Why does the Plasmancer need to be a new distinct unit? Why not just give the standard Cryptek the option to take an eldritch lance (oh, no, sorry - its plasmic lance now) back?
This really looks like you are just whining to whine. Yes, as a Necron player I am very happy to have ALL of these options, full stop.
I'm kind of encouraged that the Evy Metal team copied the colourscheme I was mucking around with doing necrons Adding some copper to the bands and legs not just doing all silver.
Seeing as it's a Harbinger of Destruction, a class of Cryptek found in the fifth edition codex that was also called a Plasmancer...
Why does the Plasmancer need to be a new distinct unit? Why not just give the standard Cryptek the option to take an eldritch lance (oh, no, sorry - its plasmic lance now) back?
In order: Yes, irrelevant to the point you're failing to make, because that's actually a huge niche especially considering how underdeveloped the canoptek part of Necrons have been in 8th, because this way it can have it's own bespoke rules that allow it to fill a unique and valuable niche in Necron's otherwise cookie cutter army building?
Necrons have relatively few units and very few options, calling this stuff 'bloat' is the sourest of sour grapes.
Danny76 wrote: The clearance on the bikes just behind that front wheel..
Think about the suspension for that front tire as well. That casing behind the wheel is going to scrape on a perfectly average road if it goes up hill at even slight incline.
They should've gone with primaris hoverbikes.
You could salvage it by cutting off the side panel before the protrusions where it bends inwards.
And its confirmed that the big hover with a huge gun is a necron heavy destroyer! We also got a spin aorund of the other version of the long legged necron walker.
Quadbike is cool. The turret explains one of the recent Rumour Engine things (I think). Heavy Destroyer thing is boss. And the Doomstalker is basically whatever the non-push fit Reanimator kit will have as its second build option.
The turret reminds me of an updated version of this. For those who don't know, that's the plastic Tarantula that came with Space Crusade back in the day.
NAVARRO wrote: Limited non starter box for the new 40k edition?
Confused of what's the point?
I hope its not them just playing with words to build hype because all that does is just the opposite.
This box is for existing players. There’ll be a different product aimed squarely at new players. It allows them to tailor the specific box to the target market - example given was no dice or measuring sticks needed in this box. It makes good business sense.
The two additional Primaris units are giving me strong Easy To Build vibes. The new Necrons and Marines are overall great stuff...but that ATV is atrocious.
Nope this was purely a model show-off session.
They also confirm that the box is basically models and rulebook and that's it. It's a launch set and will be around for the start and then vanish. It's for existing customers more than newbies.
Overall the only thing that looks lacking is the new marine buggy in my eyes. It's a bit like their "scout dreadnought" in that its just missing something and doesn't look like the kind of thing the marines would use. The buggy just doesn't seem to have enough "marine" to it. That said its marines and I don't collect them so its no problem for me. I'm also happy with the look of their bikes - they are beefy powerhouses designed to bash and force past anything that gets in tehir way rather than skip over the top light a light Genestealer Cult bike. It's a heavy boxy design of bike that befits a crusading giant in thick armour thundering over the battlefield.
Necron stuff is pure awesome and I love that they are really spreading them wider with more options and choices in the range in terms of support units.
Even though I'm into my Tyranids at the moment chances are I will want to pick up a box, depending on price; then swap over the marine content for more Necrons.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Another primaris vehicle that looks like it was designed by Hasbro. It's a good thing it'll probably have ridiculous rules to make it sell.
It looks simply atrocious. Even if they HAD to do something that's not just a bigger attack bike they had all those Landspeeder-on-wheels conversion to copy.
I really like the Primaris bikes, though, and old school attack bikes, so I'll try and cobble together something that looks like a proper support vehicle. Maybe one of the new bikes or two with Landspeeder bits and really go for "bigger attack bike".
The Primaris Dakkagun I'm unsure about, I need more angles (on my phone, so haven't watched the video).
Depending on price I'll have to get some to turn into extreme Dakka Mek Gunz, at least.
I really like the design of the NuNewcrons, having moved away from the Tomb Kings in Space aesthetic and more of a creepy undead vibe, especially with the Plasmacyte and Reanimator. I've zero interest in playing Warhammer, but I'm going to pick them up for Grimdark Future. I'm sure there'll be some Marine player in the local community who won't want them.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Random thought: Assault Intercessor Sergeants will have no weapon options outside of HBP/Chainsword because that's all the model has.
That is literally my biggest fear about this release!
As for the buggy, It is OK. It is probably the weakest of the new marine models, but that is just simply because the rest are mostly stunning. It is definitely less goofy than the old attack bike.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Another primaris vehicle that looks like it was designed by Hasbro. It's a good thing it'll probably have ridiculous rules to make it sell.
It looks simply atrocious. Even if they HAD to do something that's not just a bigger attack bike they had all those Landspeeder-on-wheels conversion to copy.
I really like the Primaris bikes, though, and old school attack bikes, so I'll try and cobble together something that looks like a proper support vehicle. Maybe one of the new bikes or two with Landspeeder bits and really go for "bigger attack bike".
The Primaris Dakkagun I'm unsure about, I need more angles (on my phone, so haven't watched the video).
Depending on price I'll have to get some to turn into extreme Dakka Mek Gunz, at least.
Love the buggy. It's ridiculous like all 40k stuff should be. Wish it had a few more guns on it but it's still pretty great as is.
Also, attack bikes looked stupid. Having a sidecar like that is and always has been really dumb.
Guess I’m not a true fan of 40k as the only thing I need from this box is the rulebook. Not one of those minis interest me as I collect neither army, nor does the godawful quad bike and the gun emplacement thing (because if there is one thing a rapid insertion force needs, its static gun emplacements...).
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: The two additional Primaris units are giving me strong Easy To Build vibes. The new Necrons and Marines are overall great stuff...but that ATV is atrocious.
Yeah, That's... uh. Something. Giving me "It's not stupid, it's advanced!" vibes.
But sure. Leave out armor on the front of your vehicle. What could possibly go wrong? Especially when your gunner can only traverse so much, and you'll be facing the enemy basically always.
Also, glad primaris techmarines are so common they can just be used as replacement gun servitors for autocannons. That's logistically sound.
Really liked everything I saw just mildly annoying they didn’t give us a price. First Sony an now GW. What’s with companies not wanting to tell their customers how much something cost. It will be the same if it’s now or next week. I need to know how much money to set aside for it. The more time I have makes it easier to collect the money.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Another primaris vehicle that looks like it was designed by Hasbro. It's a good thing it'll probably have ridiculous rules to make it sell.
It looks simply atrocious. Even if they HAD to do something that's not just a bigger attack bike they had all those Landspeeder-on-wheels conversion to copy.
I really like the Primaris bikes, though, and old school attack bikes, so I'll try and cobble together something that looks like a proper support vehicle. Maybe one of the new bikes or two with Landspeeder bits and really go for "bigger attack bike".
The Primaris Dakkagun I'm unsure about, I need more angles (on my phone, so haven't watched the video).
Depending on price I'll have to get some to turn into extreme Dakka Mek Gunz, at least.
Love the buggy. It's ridiculous like all 40k stuff should be. Wish it had a few more guns on it but it's still pretty great as is.
Also, attack bikes looked stupid. Having a sidecar like that is and always has been really dumb.
Think you might be in the minority there.
I will be converting mine into a sidecar for sure
H.B.M.C. wrote: Just noticed that the Heavy Destroyer has a different gun to the super-chunky one the one in the leaked group photo had.
More options, but sadly the body is identical.
Looks like the old Destroyer and Heavy Destroyer units are being rolled together into the new Lokhust Heavy Destroyer which gets two weapon loadouts. I'm noticing that we've only ever seen a picture of the model on it's own so I'm guessing it'll come in squads of 1-3 like the current Heavy Destroyers, potentially no more 6 man squads.
reds8n wrote: .. Keep imagining the driver of the buggy suddenly separating from the rest of the chassis and zooming off on a smaller bike like Bale's batmobile.
I more imagine that the driver has a heavily modified helmet otherwise he's not going to be able to hear anything other the gun right above his head firing like mad.
Imateria wrote: Looks like the old Destroyer and Heavy Destroyer units are being rolled together into the new Lokhust Heavy Destroyer which gets two weapon loadouts. I'm noticing that we've only ever seen a picture of the model on it's own so I'm guessing it'll come in squads of 1-3 like the current Heavy Destroyers, potentially no more 6 man squads.
And probably in boxes of 1 at more than the cost of what a Broadside costs now.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Another primaris vehicle that looks like it was designed by Hasbro. It's a good thing it'll probably have ridiculous rules to make it sell.
It looks simply atrocious. Even if they HAD to do something that's not just a bigger attack bike they had all those Landspeeder-on-wheels conversion to copy.
I really like the Primaris bikes, though, and old school attack bikes, so I'll try and cobble together something that looks like a proper support vehicle. Maybe one of the new bikes or two with Landspeeder bits and really go for "bigger attack bike".
The Primaris Dakkagun I'm unsure about, I need more angles (on my phone, so haven't watched the video).
Depending on price I'll have to get some to turn into extreme Dakka Mek Gunz, at least.
Love the buggy. It's ridiculous like all 40k stuff should be. Wish it had a few more guns on it but it's still pretty great as is.
Also, attack bikes looked stupid. Having a sidecar like that is and always has been really dumb.
Think you might be in the minority there.
I will be converting mine into a sidecar for sure
Eww. The sidecar not only has an incredibly limited LoS compared to the turret, but it's also basically a non-autonomous suicide booth for the rider; on top of looking like something you might see on a 'look how hip we are!' Mall Carousel.
Hate the buggy all you want, but a sidecar is straight up slowed.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Another primaris vehicle that looks like it was designed by Hasbro. It's a good thing it'll probably have ridiculous rules to make it sell.
It looks simply atrocious. Even if they HAD to do something that's not just a bigger attack bike they had all those Landspeeder-on-wheels conversion to copy.
I really like the Primaris bikes, though, and old school attack bikes, so I'll try and cobble together something that looks like a proper support vehicle. Maybe one of the new bikes or two with Landspeeder bits and really go for "bigger attack bike".
The Primaris Dakkagun I'm unsure about, I need more angles (on my phone, so haven't watched the video).
Depending on price I'll have to get some to turn into extreme Dakka Mek Gunz, at least.
Love the buggy. It's ridiculous like all 40k stuff should be. Wish it had a few more guns on it but it's still pretty great as is.
Also, attack bikes looked stupid. Having a sidecar like that is and always has been really dumb.
The side cars on attack bikes are daft, you can't fire to the right of you, ever... And they just look dumb.
SirGrotzalot wrote: Really liked everything I saw just mildly annoying they didn’t give us a price. First Sony an now GW. What’s with companies not wanting to tell their customers how much something cost. It will be the same if it’s now or next week. I need to know how much money to set aside for it. The more time I have makes it easier to collect the money.
GW have almost never revealed prices before they go up for pre order, so is it really a surprise to see them continue to do so?
(As for Sony, I've seen reports that Microsoft were deliberatly holding out on announcing their price until Sony do so that they can undercut them. I don't know if there's any truth to that but since Sony have had that tactic work really well for them on at least 2 occasions previously they don't want it being used on them.)
That techmarine gunner reminds me that I really wish they'd release a proper primaris techmarine. It is the only classic marine specialists not having an upgrade.
Most of the Necron stuff is excellent. While I appreciate the design direction of a lot of the Primaris stuff, I can't get over the tabard-under-chestplate and aquila going up the gorget thing, they highlight my least favourite bits of the regular MK10. The meltagun guys are just...there, I guess. The bikes confuse and annoy me, because every time I look at them my initial impression is good, and then I remember they've managed to take stuff like the ground clearance issue of the old bikes and make it worse.
The Tiny Tumbler ATV is sheer, unadulterated comedy. Like, for real, congrats GW, you have managed to outdo both the Chibihawk and Centurions, it's actually impressive.
Guess I’m not a true fan of 40k as the only thing I need from this box is the rulebook.
Do you need that specific cover? Because that's apparently all the exclusivity there is with regards to it.
Not one of those minis interest me as I collect neither army, nor does the godawful quad bike and the gun emplacement thing (because if there is one thing a rapid insertion force needs, its static gun emplacements...).
I think someone took a look at the old fluff for Tarantulas(which Marines did use) and decided that it needed someone plugged in. Not sure why it's called a "Servo-Turret" when there's a Techmarine interfaced with it!
Firestrike and Invader would have been perfect places to bring Serfs onto the battlefield for the first time.
Anyway, it's almost a certainty that we will be seeing the speeder soon now as well... All the fast elements (other than fliers and Jump pack troops) will be covered for primaris then.
I still think the assault intercessors will have jump packs in the actual kit personally.
£200 is my guess, though up to £250 wouldn't surprise me. A global pandemic barely hit GW and their price rise stunt has been (predictably) completely forgotten about by the new Malibu Stacy announcements, so coupled with the 'limited' nature I could see them trying to push their luck on pricing.
The Necron stuff looks great. The Primaris are... okay to meh, but the ATV might actually be the worst 40k vehicle I can think of since the Taurox.
Imateria wrote: Looks like the old Destroyer and Heavy Destroyer units are being rolled together into the new Lokhust Heavy Destroyer which gets two weapon loadouts. I'm noticing that we've only ever seen a picture of the model on it's own so I'm guessing it'll come in squads of 1-3 like the current Heavy Destroyers, potentially no more 6 man squads.
And probably in boxes of 1 at more than the cost of what a Broadside costs now.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Just noticed that the Heavy Destroyer has a different gun to the super-chunky one the one in the leaked group photo had.
More options, but sadly the body is identical.
Looks like the old Destroyer and Heavy Destroyer units are being rolled together into the new Lokhust Heavy Destroyer which gets two weapon loadouts. I'm noticing that we've only ever seen a picture of the model on it's own so I'm guessing it'll come in squads of 1-3 like the current Heavy Destroyers, potentially no more 6 man squads.
Not sure on that, on the official Warhammer Instagram post for the Destroyer they state that it is a new class of Destroyer...so possibly not a replacement?
"Mk.III Autonomous Servo-Munition" - 2CP "As they support their smaller Outrider brethren, Invader ATVs often find themselves facing down larger and more armoured opponents. In an effort to assist gunners against larger targets than even the hallowed Multi-Melta can handle, some Invaders come equipped with the Mk.III Autonomous Servo-Munition. These unusual hover-bombs emit a peculiar blue glow, and have multiple sensorium protrusions over its upper shell that better allow them to track their targets. Once fired, they seek out the most dangerous opponent and then detonate on impact."
Rules: Something something... more mortal wounds probably.
Crimson wrote: That techmarine gunner reminds me that I really wish they'd release a proper primaris techmarine. It is the only classic marine specialists not having an upgrade.
That's why I want a Primaris Thunderfire cannon. We'd get a Primaris Tech-Marine with that.
£200 is my guess, though up to £250 wouldn't surprise me. A global pandemic barely hit GW and their price rise stunt has been (predictably) completely forgotten about by the new Malibu Stacy announcements, so coupled with the 'limited' nature I could see them trying to push their luck on pricing.
The Necron stuff looks great. The Primaris are... okay to meh, but the ATV might actually be the worst 40k vehicle I can think of since the Taurox.
They said there would be over a 50% saving on buying these individually, so I can't see the price going that high.
NAVARRO wrote: Limited non starter box for the new 40k edition?
Confused of what's the point?
I hope its not them just playing with words to build hype because all that does is just the opposite.
This box is for existing players. There’ll be a different product aimed squarely at new players. It allows them to tailor the specific box to the target market - example given was no dice or measuring sticks needed in this box. It makes good business sense.
Im no biz expert and wish the best of success to GW with these sets... Thing is, I would think it would be ideal at launch of a new edition of a game that targeting to as many people as possible is the way to go? ...Oh well.
I like 40k minis casually so yep not a true fan I guess. This has all the ingredients to be expensive then. Starter deal labeled as Lted edition for hardcore fans... Apart from dice and rulers is it not a typical push fit Starter box?
Yodhrin wrote: Most of the Necron stuff is excellent. While I appreciate the design direction of a lot of the Primaris stuff, I can't get over the tabard-under-chestplate and aquila going up the gorget thing, they highlight my least favourite bits of the regular MK10. The meltagun guys are just...there, I guess. The bikes confuse and annoy me, because every time I look at them my initial impression is good, and then I remember they've managed to take stuff like the ground clearance issue of the old bikes and make it worse.
The Tiny Tumbler ATV is sheer, unadulterated comedy. Like, for real, congrats GW, you have managed to outdo both the Chibihawk and Centurions, it's actually impressive.
They went and gave it tires off of an economy car and they didn't give it any clearance to mach the bikes lol.
Then the gun not being able to tilt down without conking the driver on the melon pops to mind.
It's one of those things where everything is well done, but the sum of it's parts just ends up looking like somebody pieced it together from separate images of various scales.
I feel like people are looking at the exclusive cover for the rulebook the wrong way, the way I am reading it is that its just a cover for the boxed set, not limited so much as they have done say fifty thousand copies of that and they are all in this starter set. Count me as saying its gonna be £120 too, seems about right given the inflation of prices, £25 more than Dark Imperium seems fair.
I'm sure I'll get used to it, but the buggy offends me on numerous levels.
You can say its just a rejigged attack bike until blue in the face (also a model I never liked) - but its not though. Its an Ork - or GSC - Buggy with Primaris on it. (I realise this is perhaps a mirror of the complaint that modern primaris knick stuff from Eldar/Tau - but this seems really... off.)
I realise its a lost battle, because marines should have *everything* but this just doesn't feel like something Marines should want or need. If you want some heavy guns, bring a flying tank - don't expose two guys on a relatively big, fragile target* who in real life would just get murdered.
Leth wrote: I am always surprised at what breaks immersion for people. 7ft tall super soldiers wielding automatic grenade launchers? Fine.
Bike model doesn’t have enough ground clearance? Hey now, I am missing out on my realism.
I don't know why it has to be repeated over and over again, but it's the little things that are often the things that break immersion. We don't know how servo-macro-super-duper plasma accelerator works, so we can suspend our disbelief that it works because they say it works. We do know how cars work however, so when you see something with no ground clearance we immediately see the faults.
Kind of strange. The new Necron models look a lot better than new Space Marine models, at least to me. Shouldn't be too hard to get the Necron half either, since there's way more Space Marine players than Necron players.
Not a marine player here so don't care one way or the other on that buggy...but my first thought was it has better Tauros Venator conversion potential then the GSC Ridgerunner I think. I wonder if its a bigger model or not? Hopefully Tauros doesn't get "legend'd" in 9th.
Leth wrote: I am always surprised at what breaks immersion for people. 7ft tall super soldiers wielding automatic grenade launchers? Fine.
Bike model doesn’t have enough ground clearance? Hey now, I am missing out on my realism.
I don't know why it has to be repeated over and over again, but it's the little things that are often the things that break immersion. We don't know how servo-macro-super-duper plasma accelerator works, so we can suspend our disbelief that it works because they say it works. We do know how cars work however, so when you see something with no ground clearance we immediately see the faults.
Well put. When you include tech that we've had in the real world for over 100 years and completely understand, including it ina sci-fi setting and doing it wrong doesn't get a free pass because sci-fi, you get called out on it.
Crimson wrote: That techmarine gunner reminds me that I really wish they'd release a proper primaris techmarine. It is the only classic marine specialists not having an upgrade.
The gunner reminds me that they're trying to solve a problem that Space Marines don't have.
I get it conceptually- being able drop support weapons and anti-armor to a forward position is a real thing military people have cared about for almost a hundred years.
Except... space marines have man-portable support and anti-armor weapons that they carry with them normally, and they're able to drop armor units (both dreads and actual tanks) to forward positions already. So a static gun platform doesn't actually fix a problem space marines actually have, and given their emphasis on mobile, offensive strike warfare, its actually a burden to their methodology. (Especially when you throw in the idea that marines don't like the idea of abandoning or spiking wargear, affront to the machine spirits and all that).
Also, snaking ammo belts around corners and bending again to fit into the actual feed mechanism on the front side of the armor plate is... stupid.
GW designers need to stick to far out sci-fi and magic crap. Every time they try to ground models in real world sensibilities they make an awful mess.
The buggy looks better on the video than it does in the still picture. The picture makes it look short and stubby, whilst in reality is quite long. The front is definitely the weakest part (both structurally and stylistically) and I think it would have benefited from some extra armour. I have to see what I can do about that.
Danny76 wrote: The clearance on the bikes just behind that front wheel..
Think about the suspension for that front tire as well. That casing behind the wheel is going to scrape on a perfectly average road if it goes up hill at even slight incline.
Doesn't seem that different from real high performance bikes:
Spoiler:
Plus, it's 40K, for all we know it has radar and active suspension that keeps it from hitting road at all times...
ListenToMeWarriors wrote: The two additional Primaris units are giving me strong Easy To Build vibes. The new Necrons and Marines are overall great stuff...but that ATV is atrocious.
Yeah, That's... uh. Something. Giving me "It's not stupid, it's advanced!" vibes.
But sure. Leave out armor on the front of your vehicle. What could possibly go wrong? Especially when your gunner can only traverse so much, and you'll be facing the enemy basically always.
Yeah, there is no way any real special forces would use exactly this vehicle in multiple major wars. Just look at these clowns:
Spoiler:
Oh wait I like how GW can basically copy any number of modern scout buggies and you will still find armchair experts whining real equipment is unrealistic
The turret would be better if it was not crewed. It looks like it should be for guard not new advanced space marines. Also, it says the alternate version has twin las-talons. Why put the shorter range version of a lascannon on this static gun? It makes even less sense when you have the las cannon sniper dudes.
I love the new impractical bikes which makes the ATV even sadder. :( hopefully the landspeeder replacement is better. I want to have cool looking primaris ravenwing. It’s almost funny that one of the ATV weapon options is a multimelta given everything else is oldgun +1.
I like the new Gravis dudes a lot, but I don’t understand why so many people have sticks coming out from their guns at weird angles to hold with the alternate hand instead of a normal grip. It just looks like lazy sculpt to me.
Leth wrote: ATV makes me happy, just like the bikes do.
I am always surprised at what breaks immersion for people. 7ft tall super soldiers wielding automatic grenade launchers? Fine.
Bike model doesn’t have enough ground clearance? Hey now, I am missing out on my realism.
7 foot supersoldiers wielding automatic grenade launchers are both conceivable and plausible, in an abstract sense.
The idea someone would purposefully design a military all-terrain bike with less than an inch of ground clearance isn't. I don't care how dark and gothic your future is, the design literally wouldn't function in its intended purpose. It's not about "realism" it's about basic verisimilitude and internal consistency - you can do all kinds of "unrealistic" stuff providing there's some comprehensible logic behind it, even if that logic bears no resemblance to reality. The issue is there's nothing about the logic of 40K that suggests a wheeled ground vehicle doesn't actually function like a wheeled ground vehicle. If you're just going to completely discard any attempt at making sense, why not go all the way? Make the bikes out of cheese, have them shoot breadsticks. Afterall, rEaLiSM iS dUmB BruH right
Dude, I had no idea stormcast were released 10 years ago:
And yet we're seeing a pretty close mirror. Reset with endtimes/gathering storm. Basic dudes, sneaky dudes, rider dudes.
It doesn't matter that both stormcast and marines use ideas from decades ago. My point is that things are mirroring enough that I would almost bet money on the next primaris versus set having psychic dudes.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Random thought: Assault Intercessor Sergeants will have no weapon options outside of HBP/Chainsword because that's all the model has.
I expect power sword and fist option when the multipart kit rolls around. Probably plasma pistol too.
Buggy, not a fan. Much rather a trike with say the gunner rear facing. Or make it a servitor turret. Probably going to pass on it. Firestrike turret though is a huge win. To the point multiple batteries worth for me.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Another primaris vehicle that looks like it was designed by Hasbro. It's a good thing it'll probably have ridiculous rules to make it sell.
It looks simply atrocious. Even if they HAD to do something that's not just a bigger attack bike they had all those Landspeeder-on-wheels conversion to copy.
I really like the Primaris bikes, though, and old school attack bikes, so I'll try and cobble together something that looks like a proper support vehicle. Maybe one of the new bikes or two with Landspeeder bits and really go for "bigger attack bike".
The Primaris Dakkagun I'm unsure about, I need more angles (on my phone, so haven't watched the video).
Depending on price I'll have to get some to turn into extreme Dakka Mek Gunz, at least.
Love the buggy. It's ridiculous like all 40k stuff should be. Wish it had a few more guns on it but it's still pretty great as is.
Also, attack bikes looked stupid. Having a sidecar like that is and always has been really dumb.
The side cars on attack bikes are daft, you can't fire to the right of you, ever... And they just look dumb.
The Wehrmacht had bikes with MG-armed sidecars and I was always sure that this was the inspiration for the attack bike. Given how 40k is more "WW1 in space" compared to more modern tactics I found the idea of the more advanced SM having access to "WW2 in spaaaace" units fitting. I dunno, an attack bike is just the right amount of stupid for me. The ATV in my eyes is just more of the impractical-but-tacticool of everything touched by Cawl turned up to 11.
I guess the ATV and spindly Necron walker will be priced like the EtB dread? Guesses on the dakkagun?
I like pretty much everything shown, EXCEPT the buggy.
It lacks the compact chassis of every other SM vehicle and it's a pointlessly wheeled version of an older, superior grav vehicle design, in a SM range that is all about grav vehicles.
I don't even see how one would go about fixing the problems with the overall shape of that thing.
Crimson wrote: That techmarine gunner reminds me that I really wish they'd release a proper primaris techmarine. It is the only classic marine specialists not having an upgrade.
So a static gun platform doesn't actually fix a problem space marines actually have, and given their emphasis on mobile, offensive strike warfare, its actually a burden to their methodology. (Especially when you throw in the idea that marines don't like the idea of abandoning or spiking wargear, affront to the machine spirits and all that).
But not all space marines are equal? I mean. That thing is perfectly fine for something like Imperial Fists, Dark Angels and Crimson Fists. Maybe not for White Scars but not all marines are expected to use all the units.
I expect power sword and fist option when the multipart kit rolls around. Probably plasma pistol too.
There is a Plasma Pistol shown in the images. If the sgt has no power weapon options I don't know what use these guys will be. Regular Intercessors will fight better with their Power Weapon wielding Sgt against almost everything, while shooting better and still having the advantage of being Troops. Unless they really do give Chainswords an AP value. Then things might be different.
Gadzilla666 wrote: Another primaris vehicle that looks like it was designed by Hasbro. It's a good thing it'll probably have ridiculous rules to make it sell.
My thoughts were almost exactly this. Looks like it could have come right off the 1987 GI-Joe line or early 90's kid's Power Wheels
Crimson wrote: That techmarine gunner reminds me that I really wish they'd release a proper primaris techmarine. It is the only classic marine specialists not having an upgrade.
So a static gun platform doesn't actually fix a problem space marines actually have, and given their emphasis on mobile, offensive strike warfare, its actually a burden to their methodology. (Especially when you throw in the idea that marines don't like the idea of abandoning or spiking wargear, affront to the machine spirits and all that).
But not all space marines are equal? I mean. That thing is perfectly fine for something like Imperial Fists, Dark Angels and Crimson Fists. Maybe not for White Scars but not all marines are expected to use all the units.
White Scars are a codex chapter with the exact same organization as the Fists and the Fists. Dark Angels move them around, but the numbers are still similar. The 'bikes bikes bikes' is just a meme- their battle companies still have 10 squads of 6 tacticals, 2 assault and 2 devastators... which except for assault squads, are bringing lots of man portable support weapons (and the assault squads are bringing short ranged stuff). They don't need this. They do need techmarines on foot actually fixing their vehicles.
But fluff organization aside, you're missing the point- there is no point in deploying a fixed point autocannon or lascannon turret when you can just drop in a predator or dreadnought (the latter directly from orbit in a drop pod), which can just do the exact same job and move on afterwards. The autocannon version of the turret is completely pointless with the existing primaris unit that brings in autocannon marines with jump packs- just as easy (or easier) to deploy and more firepower (3 guns vs 2).
It solves a non-existent problem.
I for one like all of it. There isn't a single unit I don't like the look of in either of those previews. I really really like the new cryptek & his bucketmen, the bladeguard stuff is all great to me, the new banner guy also stands out... Man there is just so much I like here and I don't even play either of those armies.
And does anyone else find the paint work on the necron metal plating to be absolutely fantastic? Really pushing the bar there.
That buggy is getting some serious work if I decide to get it for my Ravenwing. Not sure if it's really needed though, onslaught gatler vs assault cannon of regular speeders?
However, the front needs changing...some different armour plate, something that protrudes further out the front, heck maybe even an Invictor cage around the driver.
I guess I have a problem with all the primaris vehicles...just pure ugliness...repulsor, impulsor, now this.... awful looking. Thank God my Ravenguard are all foot sloggers.
It’s the Imperium, they have gimp controlled perpetual motion machines that they have to transport on treadmills because if they stop moving they can’t start them again. My realism switch is just completely turned off at this point.
No problem with other people having it, I am just surprised by what suspends people’s disbelief rather than assuming some devs ex bs makes it work like there is for everything else.
Crimson wrote: That techmarine gunner reminds me that I really wish they'd release a proper primaris techmarine. It is the only classic marine specialists not having an upgrade.
So a static gun platform doesn't actually fix a problem space marines actually have, and given their emphasis on mobile, offensive strike warfare, its actually a burden to their methodology. (Especially when you throw in the idea that marines don't like the idea of abandoning or spiking wargear, affront to the machine spirits and all that).
But not all space marines are equal? I mean. That thing is perfectly fine for something like Imperial Fists, Dark Angels and Crimson Fists. Maybe not for White Scars but not all marines are expected to use all the units.
White Scars are a codex chapter with the exact same organization as the Fists and the Fists. Dark Angels move them around, but the numbers are still similar. The 'bikes bikes bikes' is just a meme- their battle companies still have 10 squads of 6 tacticals, 2 assault and 2 devastators... which except for assault squads, are bringing lots of man portable support weapons (and the assault squads are bringing short ranged stuff). They don't need this. They do need techmarines on foot actually fixing their vehicles.
But fluff organization aside, you're missing the point- there is no point in deploying a fixed point autocannon or lascannon turret when you can just drop in a predator or dreadnought (the latter directly from orbit in a drop pod), which can just do the exact same job and move on afterwards. The autocannon version of the turret is completely pointless with the existing primaris unit that brings in autocannon marines with jump packs- just as easy (or easier) to deploy and more firepower (3 guns vs 2).
It solves a non-existent problem.
I mean, don’t marines defend positions? Bet this is a lot cheaper than a predator and easier to get to a higher location. Spending a lot of points on mobility when you don’t need it is rough, same with buying he predator chassis resulting in more of an all in one basket cost.
To be perfectly honest? I think a lot of these units are there to help fill out the force org slots that were prohibitively expensive otherwise. A reasonable cheap fast attack and heavy support will go a long way towards making a battalion feasible.
Only thing you need to "fix" the buggy is 2 bald screaming heads to replace the helmets, and have, at least the driver, vielding a close combat weapon.
Seriously though, most of the stuff looks great. Really impressed with the new Necron direction, just hinting at a Giger style weird biomechanics.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I for one like all of it. There isn't a single unit I don't like the look of in either of those previews. I really really like the new cryptek & his bucketmen, the bladeguard stuff is all great to me, the new banner guy also stands out... Man there is just so much I like here and I don't even play either of those armies.
And does anyone else find the paint work on the necron metal plating to be absolutely fantastic? Really pushing the bar there.
Me too- liking it all and I don't have either faction. The Necrons are really awesome - I love the new look and that paint scheme is amazing. The tall towering constructs are really cool and the army has a real creep factor going on. I could see myself painting the marines as blood angels or flesh tearers and doing the necrons in heavilyweathered and chipped metals ..
The other question. is will there be a starter set as well- you'd think so , so it will be interesting to see how they sale down to that after this..
But the sculpt quality is amazing, really shows how they have moved forward in the last few years, can't wait for them to refresh NIds in a similar manner to Necrons, but very tempted to start a small Necron force in the meantime.
I mean, don’t marines defend positions? Bet this is a lot cheaper than a predator and easier to get to a higher location. Spending a lot of points on mobility when you don’t need it is rough, same with buying he predator chassis resulting in more of an all in one basket cost.
Sure. Put a devastator squad in a trench. Or eliminators. Or hellblasters. Or... etc.
Need a higher position? Well... suppressors do exactly that. With basically the same gun. (there are many other ways to get las-talons or lascannons).
To be perfectly honest? I think a lot of these units are there to help fill out the force org slots that were prohibitively expensive otherwise. A reasonable cheap fast attack and heavy support will go a long way towards making a battalion feasible.
We're talking about marines here- no help is needed 'filling out' the force org. The most limited force org squad is troops... with a staggering 5 options currently (probably soon to be 6 with the assault primaris). FA is going from 8 choices to at least 10 with this release, plenty of which are already dirt cheap.
The other question. is will there be a starter set as well- you'd think so , so it will be interesting to see how they sale down to that after this..
They'll sell this expensive, limited box and then launch the starter box a month or two later, knowing that since it's new Primaris stuff, it'll sell like hotcakes regardless.
Voss wrote: We're talking about marines here- no help is needed 'filling out' the force org. The most limited force org squad is troops... with a staggering 5 options currently (probably soon to be 6 with the assault primaris). FA is going from 8 choices to at least 10 with this release, plenty of which are already dirt cheap.
Best case scenario, Intecessors will get a new assault kit, but they will just add the option to swap the bolt rifle for a chainsword (for free) and any new pistol options to the intercessor datasheet. Unless they have jump packs, it's literally several words difference.
Twoshoes23 wrote: Not a marine player here so don't care one way or the other on that buggy...but my first thought was it has better Tauros Venator conversion potential then the GSC Ridgerunner I think. I wonder if its a bigger model or not? Hopefully Tauros doesn't get "legend'd" in 9th.
I use a Halo Warthog for my Tauros, but that's just me.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I have to admit the Turret is growing on me. I have a counts-as blood angels army (thunderwarriors) and I was looking for something to use in the heavy support section. Looks like I found it.. Likely using an AoS Ballista as the base though.
Voss wrote: We're talking about marines here- no help is needed 'filling out' the force org. The most limited force org squad is troops... with a staggering 5 options currently (probably soon to be 6 with the assault primaris). FA is going from 8 choices to at least 10 with this release, plenty of which are already dirt cheap.
Best case scenario, Intecessors will get a new assault kit, but they will just add the option to swap the bolt rifle for a chainsword (for free) and any new pistol options to the intercessor datasheet. Unless they have jump packs, it's literally several words difference.
If that were true, Suppressors and intercep... no, Inceptors... would be the same unit, same with the Centurion variants, at least one Phobos squad and Reivers, the new melta 'rifles' would be an Eliminator weapon option, and Stalker, Hunter and maybe Whirlwind would be the same tank.
It isn't the word count difference- that isn't how GW identifies units. I'm not sure what their criteria is, it certainly isn't distinct names or battlefield roles, but I'm sure someone at GW can identify a Incursor vs Infiltrator off the top of their heads, and tell you why assault primaris are super distinct from both Intercessors, Reivers and whichever Phobos squad has the knives.
Voss wrote: We're talking about marines here- no help is needed 'filling out' the force org. The most limited force org squad is troops... with a staggering 5 options currently (probably soon to be 6 with the assault primaris). FA is going from 8 choices to at least 10 with this release, plenty of which are already dirt cheap.
Best case scenario, Intecessors will get a new assault kit, but they will just add the option to swap the bolt rifle for a chainsword (for free) and any new pistol options to the intercessor datasheet. Unless they have jump packs, it's literally several words difference.
according to a friend who knows a guy (or claims to) they're a totally separate unit for the elite slot. He said they also come standard with 2A (3Sgt) and have a movement stat of 8" with some special rules, including some kind of forward deployment ability. Take with vat of salt, but there you go.
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xeen wrote: The necron stuff looks dope. I don’t even play them but might have to start
Yeah, I was going to split the box, but after seeing everything I'm just going to keep both haves. Everything looks too cool for me to want to let any of it go!
Voss wrote: We're talking about marines here- no help is needed 'filling out' the force org. The most limited force org squad is troops... with a staggering 5 options currently (probably soon to be 6 with the assault primaris). FA is going from 8 choices to at least 10 with this release, plenty of which are already dirt cheap.
Best case scenario, Intecessors will get a new assault kit, but they will just add the option to swap the bolt rifle for a chainsword (for free) and any new pistol options to the intercessor datasheet. Unless they have jump packs, it's literally several words difference.
If that were true, Suppressors and intercep... no, Inceptors... would be the same unit, same with the Centurion variants, at least one Phobos squad and Reivers, the new melta 'rifles' would be an Eliminator weapon option, and Stalker, Hunter and maybe Whirlwind would be the same tank.
It isn't the word count difference- that isn't how GW identifies units. I'm not sure what their criteria is, it certainly isn't distinct names or battlefield roles, but I'm sure someone at GW can identify a Incursor vs Infiltrator off the top of their heads, and tell you why assault primaris are super distinct from both Intercessors, Reivers and whichever Phobos squad has the knives.
Well the difference for Inceptors va Suppressors is a LOT more because one is in Gravis armor for starters. Also I'm all for consolidation of the Centurion entries into a single slot because, as is, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to mix and it saves room. Then just leave them in the heavy slot entirely. GW's way of creating "separate entries" is fething garbage and that's why we have probably more than 9 Captains at this point, meanwhile tons of other armies struggle to get 3!
Voss wrote: We're talking about marines here- no help is needed 'filling out' the force org. The most limited force org squad is troops... with a staggering 5 options currently (probably soon to be 6 with the assault primaris). FA is going from 8 choices to at least 10 with this release, plenty of which are already dirt cheap.
Best case scenario, Intecessors will get a new assault kit, but they will just add the option to swap the bolt rifle for a chainsword (for free) and any new pistol options to the intercessor datasheet. Unless they have jump packs, it's literally several words difference.
If that were true, Suppressors and intercep... no, Inceptors... would be the same unit, same with the Centurion variants, at least one Phobos squad and Reivers, the new melta 'rifles' would be an Eliminator weapon option, and Stalker, Hunter and maybe Whirlwind would be the same tank.
It isn't the word count difference- that isn't how GW identifies units. I'm not sure what their criteria is, it certainly isn't distinct names or battlefield roles, but I'm sure someone at GW can identify a Incursor vs Infiltrator off the top of their heads, and tell you why assault primaris are super distinct from both Intercessors, Reivers and whichever Phobos squad has the knives.
Well the difference for Inceptors va Suppressors is a LOT more because one is in Gravis armor for starters. Also I'm all for consolidation of the Centurion entries into a single slot because, as is, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to mix and it saves room. Then just leave them in the heavy slot entirely. GW's way of creating "separate entries" is fething garbage and that's why we have probably more than 9 Captains at this point, meanwhile tons of other armies struggle to get 3!
Hence my salt warning. I will say he did also tell me three rumors that have been true and one that was half-true.
according to a friend who knows a guy (or claims to) they're a totally separate unit for the elite slot. He said they also come standard with 2A (3Sgt) and have a movement stat of 8" with some special rules, including some kind of forward deployment ability. Take with vat of salt, but there you go.
Yeah I'd say the salt is warranted. The 8 movement stat is IMO the really odd bit.
I wonder what the smaller starter sets will be. The heavy Sisters presence in the video and on the website makes me wonder if one of them will feature Sisters.
I think the heavy Sisters marketing is purely GW investing in Sisters because they did such a big range launch for them. They basically rebooted the army in almost its entire form and added more stuff. For them it was a big update to an army which has likely sold poorly in metal for a long time
So it makes sense that they'd put them into a lot of marketing material right now to really help drive home the attention on them to help boost sales. IT might also blend into GW wanting to make more of an overt representation of different groups within its games, thus promoting female models through their predominantly female army.
I don't think it means they've lots more for sisters nor that they are going to put them in starter sets; I think its just GW giving them a pride of place for a while.
General Kroll wrote: I wonder what the smaller starter sets will be. The heavy Sisters presence in the video and on the website makes me wonder if one of them will feature Sisters.
What GW are going to do with the starter and fist steps products really interests me. The sprue layout for Indomitus could support several different combinations for smaller boxes, in the same vein as the current First strike and Know No Fear sets. Also GW have been quite specific in labelling Indomitus as a "launch box" not a starter box. So maybe they are changing there thinking in this area?
Dudeface wrote: Return of the sisters army in a box sprues with a rulebook? Would be easy for them to do and make sense.
This is what I thought. It might be the case that they will have a couple of different starter sets and the Indomitus box for the die hards. Would give them the opportunity to really promote the sisters line, and maybe even other model lines if the pushed different xenos/chaos factions in the smaller starter sets.
it won’t hurt the brand having more female representation either.
What’s truly unforgivable is they called it an ATV when it’s clearly a FAV—you know an actual military dune buggy with remarkably little ground clearance.
Overread wrote: I think the heavy Sisters marketing is purely GW investing in Sisters because they did such a big range launch for them. They basically rebooted the army in almost its entire form and added more stuff. For them it was a big update to an army which has likely sold poorly in metal for a long time
So it makes sense that they'd put them into a lot of marketing material right now to really help drive home the attention on them to help boost sales. IT might also blend into GW wanting to make more of an overt representation of different groups within its games, thus promoting female models through their predominantly female army.
I don't think it means they've lots more for sisters nor that they are going to put them in starter sets; I think its just GW giving them a pride of place for a while.
They have said they want to be more inclusive and Sisters help with that as well as being great new models.
They can use them in lots of prmotional work without lots of new stuff as well.
Although all that annoying rules talk isn’t in this one really, just the other.
(I mean the talking about things we don’t even know yet and pages and pages of argument).
This is mostly just model talk.
You know, I’d love to have two separate thread if we could just talk models in one and rules in another..
Seeing as it's a Harbinger of Destruction, a class of Cryptek found in the fifth edition codex that was also called a Plasmancer...
GW still hasn’t made the existing stuff work as a game, and instead of doing what is already established better, GW adds power creepy weapons to motivate the purchase of new models and replacement of old.
So we have hashtag new forty k. Why not just 40K done well? New is not necessarily better. It is just new.
Now, if the rest of the game was working with existing weapons and units then sure, options are great. But as this turns out, plus the ridiculous weenie buggy, yikes. My money was theirs to lose on this release. With heavy cover being so important and so... poorly executed... sad. They lost it.
I will look for a web resource for the rules and wait for fixes and maybe 10th...
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Danny76 wrote: Although all that annoying rules talk isn’t in this one really, just the other.
(I mean the talking about things we don’t even know yet and pages and pages of argument).
This is mostly just model talk.
You know, I’d love to have two separate thread if we could just talk models in one and rules in another..
One will be lampooning the new buggy, the other will deplore when said buggy’s rules are released.
Voss wrote: We're talking about marines here- no help is needed 'filling out' the force org. The most limited force org squad is troops... with a staggering 5 options currently (probably soon to be 6 with the assault primaris). FA is going from 8 choices to at least 10 with this release, plenty of which are already dirt cheap.
Best case scenario, Intecessors will get a new assault kit, but they will just add the option to swap the bolt rifle for a chainsword (for free) and any new pistol options to the intercessor datasheet. Unless they have jump packs, it's literally several words difference.
according to a friend who knows a guy (or claims to) they're a totally separate unit for the elite slot. He said they also come standard with 2A (3Sgt) and have a movement stat of 8" with some special rules, including some kind of forward deployment ability. Take with vat of salt, but there you go.
Spoiler:
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xeen wrote: The necron stuff looks dope. I don’t even play them but might have to start
Yeah, I was going to split the box, but after seeing everything I'm just going to keep both haves. Everything looks too cool for me to want to let any of it go!
Man, eight inch moves on a smaller table? Zero turn tabling will become a thing...
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Danny76 wrote: The clearance on the bikes just behind that front wheel..
Primaries marines on bikes get a lot of lower back pain...
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Overread wrote: Space marines get a go-kart - sorry ork war buggy
Also a Primaris SM, eldar style weapon platform
And its confirmed that the big hover with a huge gun is a necron heavy destroyer! We also got a spin aorund of the other version of the long legged necron walker.
Yes Biff the numarine had a fortunate childhood. Some people get all the cool toys.
It is almost as if there is nothing that stormcaste... err numarines don’t do better than everyone else. Out skimming the eldar was a problem and out hover tanking the tau were problems before... I guess we see where this is going now.
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ListenToMeWarriors wrote: The two additional Primaris units are giving me strong Easy To Build vibes. The new Necrons and Marines are overall great stuff...but that ATV is atrocious.
BrianDavion wrote: their being elites seems a bit odd to me as it'd mean a starter box with no troops.
I agree. I think Marine elites are pretty full right now of data sheets anyways!
also assault intercessors being elites would pretty much step on reivers toes. well an assault TROOP would actually fill a unfilled, and often asked for, niche.
BrianDavion wrote: their being elites seems a bit odd to me as it'd mean a starter box with no troops.
I agree. I think Marine elites are pretty full right now of data sheets anyways!
also assault intercessors being elites would pretty much step on reivers toes. well an assault TROOP would actually fill a unfilled, and often asked for, niche.
Their existence all but makes reivers redundant though does it not?
BrianDavion wrote: their being elites seems a bit odd to me as it'd mean a starter box with no troops.
I agree. I think Marine elites are pretty full right now of data sheets anyways!
also assault intercessors being elites would pretty much step on reivers toes. well an assault TROOP would actually fill a unfilled, and often asked for, niche.
Their existence all but makes reivers redundant though does it not?
We can’t really blame other units for reiver’s faults. They are a bad unit. They have one gimmick (Ld debuff) that nothing else in the list has any synergy with, crappy gear options, limited mobility/deployment options that they need to pay extra for, and no real combat potential. If we held everything down to their level, we’d be playing Codex: Overpriced wet noodle. And if you are worried about them being overshadowed, the time to bring that up was when the rest of the phobos line came out and stole did that.
Hopefully 9th will be kind to them, but please don’t hold back the rest of the army because you might hurt the reivers feelings. They are a bad unit and should feel bad.
BrianDavion wrote: their being elites seems a bit odd to me as it'd mean a starter box with no troops.
I agree. I think Marine elites are pretty full right now of data sheets anyways!
also assault intercessors being elites would pretty much step on reivers toes. well an assault TROOP would actually fill a unfilled, and often asked for, niche.
Their existence all but makes reivers redundant though does it not?
What's one more redundant option for loyalists? They have so many options in every FOC slot at this point something will be made at least somewhat irrelevant by any new addition.
Adding some copper to the bands and legs not just doing all silver.
I think that and the turret(got a Space Crusade rapier vibe 
I like how 
